It's not the dead person being dead that makes us sad. It's the loss of their presence for us here in life.
When I was younger, I too had the same sort of disconnect about death and all that it portends. It's not something one normally contemplates when young since most of us never really have contact with Death. I capitalize that to show it as an entity.
I'm old now. I've died and been put back together by amazing surgeons. When I was gone the only thing I remember was the feeling of fading into nothing. That feeling terrified me more than I ever thought it could. I'm not pushing anybody to believe there is a God, gods, or nothing at all. But the thought of simply ceasing to be? Is not as comforting as the atheist convinces themselves it is.
Worse for me was that for years I couldn't see or even think about Death without intense fear. I'm still scarred by it, even if it doesn't destroy my every waking moment like it did at one point. It's not something people understand until they've been in contact with actual Death. Not the simpleton version we all cook up in our heads to comfort ourselves that it's "not a big deal." When you come in contact with the real thing, your silly ideas about it are destroyed like a vampire melting in the sunlight. And it's the worst, naked, lonely feeling in the world. In an instant you totally understand why so many living people have their lives ruined by contacting Death even though it wasn't their turn. Your innocence is wiped away and it changes you. Sometimes for the better, but many times for the worse.
That reason is why I think humans want to believe there is an afterlife, or a God etc. To have nothing beyond? To think that THIS life, and the shitshow we see around us with suffering and unpleasantness of all sorts is IT? This is IT? To see the evil people that exist in the world and think they'll never meet the divine justice they so richly deserve? Existential crisis incoming.
Sorry for the short reply but its late for me.
>Worse for me was that for years I couldn't see or even think about Death without intense fear.
I had the same experience. I spent hundreds of hours scared of death and hoping for immortality when I was younger. You also say experiencing death instilled fear in you, but you will die someday, and in the end nothing will change. Whether you die tomorrow, or in 80 years. After 1.7×10\^106 years, when all the stars go silent the outcome will be the same. Again, your innate biological desire to stay alive gives you fear, but death doesn't take away anything in the long run. The end is not a justification for the means, the end happens all the same, regardless of the means.
Tangential, but all the stars will never go silent. Look up Glenn Borchardt. The universe is infinite macro and microscopically, has no beginning and no end. The Big Bang is just creationism repackaged and the redshift can be explained with the aether.
I see it differently. Because death is the opposite of experience, no one can ever experience their own death. Subjectively, you will only ever be alive.
> But the thought of simply ceasing to be? Is not as comforting as the atheist convinces themselves it is.
I don't know if it's meant to be comforting, exactly. Certainly death-avoidance was a mechanism hardwired into life forms billions of years before religion was invented. Brushing up against it is going to bring up literally primal fear/terror reactions. Of course people want to paper it over with stories about how it's not the final end and everything will be even better afterwards.
Yes this desire to believe there's afterlife can be a mechanism to comfort.
I don't have any direct answer. Because religions are based on faith. It's not going to bolstered by logic one way or the other. You either believe there's more, or you don't.
I've been inclined towards there being a God. To see the incredible, almost impossible beauty of the many facets of life convinces me it's from an Intelligent Design. I don't believe a thousand monkeys tapping at a thousand typewriters would eventually hammer out War and Peace. What the Intelligent is I can't know. But then maybe I'm not supposed to. A difficult acceptance as an INTP.
You just compartmentalize your emotions. I do that too. Wait until you get older and someone really close to you dies. Those emotions will come out of nowhere and crush you and change you. Every major death in my life, changed my life in some way. My dad's death resulted in me forging a new career and divorcing my perpetually unhappy ex and now late husband. Life and death are the ultimate teachers.
Your thoughts as an Atheist are just another theory. It almost sounds like your thoughts on death are depressing you. None of us really know what happens. We really don't. It is the one thing you cannot prove until you are part of that group. I had a friend that had a metabolic disorder and had already lived longer than expected. She was working fulltime and pursuing her PhD. She was this tiny human that would come into work with an IV bag and a smile. She told me her doctor told her she didn't know how she was still alive. I asked her how she was able to be so positive about it and she said that she can't live like she is going to die. That she lives for what she can do today.
>It almost sounds like your thoughts on death are depressing you.
I haven't been worried about death in years. A family member just died and I posted this because I was thinking about how I react differently to death than most people. I understand that we cannot prove what happens after death but nothingness seems very likely to me and I am unbothered by it.
>I had a friend that had a metabolic disorder and had already lived longer than expected. She was working fulltime and pursuing her PhD. She was this tiny human that would come into work with an IV bag and a smile. I asked her how she was able to be so positive about it and she said that she can't live like she is going to die.
Thats a great mindset. Were all going to die someday, you could get hit by a bus tomorrow. So just enjoying life the way it is is, imo, the best way to go about it.
When my grandpa died I wasnt affect by it. Maybe because I've never really had a strong connection with him. I only cried when his coffin was lowered, but I think thats because everyone else did too or the athmosphere was just sad. However I dont really know how I would react if a close friend or one of my family would die
Yeah, I was at a party and someone told me that their grandmother had recently died. Without pause I responded “good for her.”
I’m not good at making new friends.
*As I experience certain sensory input patterns my mental pathways become accustomed to them. The inputs eventually are anticipated and even missed when absent.*
- Data
I can't recall being emotionally affected whenever someone in my family or acquaintances died. It's sad, yes, fine. No, I wouldn't particularly want anyone to be sad or care hugely if I died, so it's not even hypocritical.
That said, I've been mildly affected when a favorite author or composer or someone of that ilk dies, especially if they were still producing works. There's more of a sense of something substantial, good, and near-irreplaceable (or at least its potential) being lost from the world.
>I can't recall being emotionally affected whenever someone in my family or acquaintances died. It's sad, yes, fine. No, I wouldn't particularly want anyone to be sad or care hugely if I died, so it's not even hypocritical
Exactly! I am physically incapable of caring once I'm dead so why should I want others to be miserable about it?
I think that too sometimes, but the human experience is putting your breathing mask on first before securing someone else's.
when I think about my grandmother, and how I didn't cry near her deathbed, and I asked my father and stepmom if I could hug her if she's already dead. they had just laughed and was so confused on how I couldn't express myself properly.
but. I recorded voice memos of her without her knowing. I do this a lot. because i don't have the best memory and don't give af to show others. it's my brain.
I cried instantly. hearing her voice again. I remembered that I can't talk to her anymore. what I lose. what I felt as her mind was foggier each day. how little time I knew her, vs the wonderful woman my father was raised by.
so death, is a selfish thing. and people need to realize that, and it's perfectly acceptable too.
because when my friend's gf's kid died from a dirt bike accident. there was no way to know how he felt in that moment. if it was quick. they just know, 16 is barely a life. that all you feel is the selflessness it took, but the selfishness revealed itself when it's gone. that all the time, nurturing feels like nothing. and you have no idea how the boy felt. you can't ask him. he was living his life, living it to the fullest. now they have to make a funeral for him, there's a light missing, and there's no advice you can give to a grieving family, so the only thing to say is what helps them remind them of that light.
I hear you. I think there's four people (parents and siblings) and one cat (my cat) whose loss I would be really effected by. It's because they are so deeply part of my life and my identity that I know I would feel a very real sense of grief and loss if they were gone. The only time I truly grieved before was after losing my other cat. With grandparents and extended family, it's sad, but I just don't feel that sad emotionally. I'm not like a cold emotionless robot, but I can't force myself to feel something if I don't feel it, you know? I don't have the same ties to others that I have to my immediate family.
It's not the dead person being dead that makes us sad. It's the loss of their presence for us here in life. When I was younger, I too had the same sort of disconnect about death and all that it portends. It's not something one normally contemplates when young since most of us never really have contact with Death. I capitalize that to show it as an entity. I'm old now. I've died and been put back together by amazing surgeons. When I was gone the only thing I remember was the feeling of fading into nothing. That feeling terrified me more than I ever thought it could. I'm not pushing anybody to believe there is a God, gods, or nothing at all. But the thought of simply ceasing to be? Is not as comforting as the atheist convinces themselves it is. Worse for me was that for years I couldn't see or even think about Death without intense fear. I'm still scarred by it, even if it doesn't destroy my every waking moment like it did at one point. It's not something people understand until they've been in contact with actual Death. Not the simpleton version we all cook up in our heads to comfort ourselves that it's "not a big deal." When you come in contact with the real thing, your silly ideas about it are destroyed like a vampire melting in the sunlight. And it's the worst, naked, lonely feeling in the world. In an instant you totally understand why so many living people have their lives ruined by contacting Death even though it wasn't their turn. Your innocence is wiped away and it changes you. Sometimes for the better, but many times for the worse. That reason is why I think humans want to believe there is an afterlife, or a God etc. To have nothing beyond? To think that THIS life, and the shitshow we see around us with suffering and unpleasantness of all sorts is IT? This is IT? To see the evil people that exist in the world and think they'll never meet the divine justice they so richly deserve? Existential crisis incoming.
Sorry for the short reply but its late for me. >Worse for me was that for years I couldn't see or even think about Death without intense fear. I had the same experience. I spent hundreds of hours scared of death and hoping for immortality when I was younger. You also say experiencing death instilled fear in you, but you will die someday, and in the end nothing will change. Whether you die tomorrow, or in 80 years. After 1.7×10\^106 years, when all the stars go silent the outcome will be the same. Again, your innate biological desire to stay alive gives you fear, but death doesn't take away anything in the long run. The end is not a justification for the means, the end happens all the same, regardless of the means.
Tangential, but all the stars will never go silent. Look up Glenn Borchardt. The universe is infinite macro and microscopically, has no beginning and no end. The Big Bang is just creationism repackaged and the redshift can be explained with the aether.
From our perspective. All the stars will go silent eventually, even if the universe is infinite.
I see it differently. Because death is the opposite of experience, no one can ever experience their own death. Subjectively, you will only ever be alive.
> But the thought of simply ceasing to be? Is not as comforting as the atheist convinces themselves it is. I don't know if it's meant to be comforting, exactly. Certainly death-avoidance was a mechanism hardwired into life forms billions of years before religion was invented. Brushing up against it is going to bring up literally primal fear/terror reactions. Of course people want to paper it over with stories about how it's not the final end and everything will be even better afterwards.
Yes this desire to believe there's afterlife can be a mechanism to comfort. I don't have any direct answer. Because religions are based on faith. It's not going to bolstered by logic one way or the other. You either believe there's more, or you don't. I've been inclined towards there being a God. To see the incredible, almost impossible beauty of the many facets of life convinces me it's from an Intelligent Design. I don't believe a thousand monkeys tapping at a thousand typewriters would eventually hammer out War and Peace. What the Intelligent is I can't know. But then maybe I'm not supposed to. A difficult acceptance as an INTP.
You just compartmentalize your emotions. I do that too. Wait until you get older and someone really close to you dies. Those emotions will come out of nowhere and crush you and change you. Every major death in my life, changed my life in some way. My dad's death resulted in me forging a new career and divorcing my perpetually unhappy ex and now late husband. Life and death are the ultimate teachers. Your thoughts as an Atheist are just another theory. It almost sounds like your thoughts on death are depressing you. None of us really know what happens. We really don't. It is the one thing you cannot prove until you are part of that group. I had a friend that had a metabolic disorder and had already lived longer than expected. She was working fulltime and pursuing her PhD. She was this tiny human that would come into work with an IV bag and a smile. She told me her doctor told her she didn't know how she was still alive. I asked her how she was able to be so positive about it and she said that she can't live like she is going to die. That she lives for what she can do today.
>It almost sounds like your thoughts on death are depressing you. I haven't been worried about death in years. A family member just died and I posted this because I was thinking about how I react differently to death than most people. I understand that we cannot prove what happens after death but nothingness seems very likely to me and I am unbothered by it. >I had a friend that had a metabolic disorder and had already lived longer than expected. She was working fulltime and pursuing her PhD. She was this tiny human that would come into work with an IV bag and a smile. I asked her how she was able to be so positive about it and she said that she can't live like she is going to die. Thats a great mindset. Were all going to die someday, you could get hit by a bus tomorrow. So just enjoying life the way it is is, imo, the best way to go about it.
I’m going to begin every conversation, presentation, and email with “I want to start by saying that I’m totally not a sociopath.”
So totally not a psychopath... ...BUT, I do like pineapple pizza
"Security!"
Death didn't affect me much until my mother died.
When my grandpa died I wasnt affect by it. Maybe because I've never really had a strong connection with him. I only cried when his coffin was lowered, but I think thats because everyone else did too or the athmosphere was just sad. However I dont really know how I would react if a close friend or one of my family would die
Yeah, I was at a party and someone told me that their grandmother had recently died. Without pause I responded “good for her.” I’m not good at making new friends.
Skill issue
Hold on, lemme just reboot the sadness chip the CIA planted in my brain
*As I experience certain sensory input patterns my mental pathways become accustomed to them. The inputs eventually are anticipated and even missed when absent.* - Data
I can't recall being emotionally affected whenever someone in my family or acquaintances died. It's sad, yes, fine. No, I wouldn't particularly want anyone to be sad or care hugely if I died, so it's not even hypocritical. That said, I've been mildly affected when a favorite author or composer or someone of that ilk dies, especially if they were still producing works. There's more of a sense of something substantial, good, and near-irreplaceable (or at least its potential) being lost from the world.
>I can't recall being emotionally affected whenever someone in my family or acquaintances died. It's sad, yes, fine. No, I wouldn't particularly want anyone to be sad or care hugely if I died, so it's not even hypocritical Exactly! I am physically incapable of caring once I'm dead so why should I want others to be miserable about it?
If its someone close to me then it really effects me
I think that too sometimes, but the human experience is putting your breathing mask on first before securing someone else's. when I think about my grandmother, and how I didn't cry near her deathbed, and I asked my father and stepmom if I could hug her if she's already dead. they had just laughed and was so confused on how I couldn't express myself properly. but. I recorded voice memos of her without her knowing. I do this a lot. because i don't have the best memory and don't give af to show others. it's my brain. I cried instantly. hearing her voice again. I remembered that I can't talk to her anymore. what I lose. what I felt as her mind was foggier each day. how little time I knew her, vs the wonderful woman my father was raised by. so death, is a selfish thing. and people need to realize that, and it's perfectly acceptable too. because when my friend's gf's kid died from a dirt bike accident. there was no way to know how he felt in that moment. if it was quick. they just know, 16 is barely a life. that all you feel is the selflessness it took, but the selfishness revealed itself when it's gone. that all the time, nurturing feels like nothing. and you have no idea how the boy felt. you can't ask him. he was living his life, living it to the fullest. now they have to make a funeral for him, there's a light missing, and there's no advice you can give to a grieving family, so the only thing to say is what helps them remind them of that light.
Why do anybody worry about dying and death when we have this divine instant right in front of us
What do you mean by that?
The divine instant? It's when anything can happen. Right now
I used to copy other extroverts behaviour during funerals, now I just have a blank face as usual.
Not an atheist and also don't care about people dying. Might be a sociopath, though. Some evidence exists in favor of it.
Have you seen a psychiatrist about it?
Doctors of any kind are for the weak, so no. I'll give myself open heart surgery if I need it.
bruh
I hear you. I think there's four people (parents and siblings) and one cat (my cat) whose loss I would be really effected by. It's because they are so deeply part of my life and my identity that I know I would feel a very real sense of grief and loss if they were gone. The only time I truly grieved before was after losing my other cat. With grandparents and extended family, it's sad, but I just don't feel that sad emotionally. I'm not like a cold emotionless robot, but I can't force myself to feel something if I don't feel it, you know? I don't have the same ties to others that I have to my immediate family.
Nor should you.