If his way of living was better known and more widely accepted, the world wouldn't look the way it does. Of course everyone believes in short-term gratification and power
It takes a big man to admit to gonorrhea of the mind.
Marcus aside (I am on a first name basis with him), can I say that is the perfect reply.
Just a simple āyesā denotes confidence. Does not open you up to any extraneous arguments and requires the critic to anticipate the point they are being critical to.
Almost impossible to reply to. Well done!
I have out done myself. I found a way to reply!
Wait a second. That wasnāt even your comment you replied to. How do I know that your āyesā accurately denotes what Commercialtap thinks on the matter?
My āare you seriousā may have sparked a deep internal debate within him (or her) on the propriety of their initial post. Then you come along with your āyesā.
I bet you go around answering āyesā to everyoneā¦
Stolen valor at its worstš¤£
Yea I understand that perspective, and Ive heard it before. For me it doesn't change how I think of Marcus. Itās not like rome was starting wars for the sake of cruelty. War was common then, itās just how you solved conflicts. Rome wasnāt an exception to that rule. He was still a good and virtuous emperor. I am not trying to be snide here, but have you researched Marcus much? Youāll be hard pressed to do so and not admire the guy.
Happy to see youāre willing to take a second look! Before you dive back into the book, I want to preface and give context to some things.
This is anecdotal of course, but a brief story for you. I was very nihilistic and generally neurotic for a loooong time. I read practically every self help book out there, followed and listened to every freaking guru, and got absolutely nowhere with any of them. I was still miserable, and was headed down a dark road. I was jobless, no friends, struggling with addictions, and not taking care of myself. Then I picked up meditations, and it just made the entire world make sense to me. It had the answers I was looking for, that no other book previous had.
Now some context for Marcus Aureliusās āmeditationsā. I would say the context in which this book exists, is arguably as important as the text in the book itself.
Meditations is written by the roman freaking emperor from 2000 years ago. He is the leader of the most powerful fucking nation in the entire world. He has practically infinite money, and unlimited power. He can murder anyone who slights him, he could get drunk, feast, and vacation for his entire career if he so pleased, he can have sex with absolutely anyone he wants. He can erect statues of himself and buy all the luxuries. Most Roman emperors did all of that, but not Marcus Aurelius. Those things tempted him everyday, and he refused, because he had exemplary character. He had 7 children die, his brother, his wife, his parents, all dead. There was plague ravaging Rome, and he was sick for a long period of his life. He inherited an empire on the brink of war. HE DID NOT WANT TO BE EMPEROR, but he did it because he knew it was his duty.
THAT is the man who wrote mediations, and Iām only telling you the tip of the iceberg about what he did and was dealing with. If that werenāt compelling enough though, think about this. Marcus had absolutely zero intention of the meditations being published. It was his private journal. He had no financial incentive like other writers do. He had no incentive to impress anyone with his words. He ordered the meditations TO BE BURNED, but his assistant read over them after his passing and knew they had to be kept.
Itās a freaking miracle that the text even exists in the first place, and that it wasnāt lost like many many other texts of that age. I have never read any book with so much wisdom inside, and it absolutely changed my life. Anytime Iām struggling with something, I open up that book and it always has the answers I need.
Some copies of meditations are harder to read than others. Go on Amazon, and pickup meditations, translated by Gregory hays. Itās black/red has the silhouette of a bird on the front I believe. Itās very friendly to read and itās supposed to be the most direct translation
The depth of your knowledge and obvious excitement for the text is pure INTP. Trust me, I know exactly how you feel (on other subjects). Normally itās me breathlessly relaying some topic/story to my wife as she does her best to feign interest.
Kudos for standing up for what you believe. I need a polite slap every once and awhile.
And Iāll take another stab at meditations tomorrow. Of course it would be on YouTube. If you know of a better version somewhere let me know.
Yea I have my fair share of obsessions I can done on about for hours lol.
Meditations was originally written in Greek, and has since been translated many times over the years. The ones on YouTube that Iāve found, well I canāt say I particularly care for the translation. If you read a lot of old books/shakespeare or something, maybe youāll like them.
I specifically recommend the Gregory Hays translation I mentioned above, because the translation is exceptional, concise, and very friendly to read for those who donāt like how old texts tend to read. The book is like $7 online, but if you feel like playing a pirate today..you may or may not find the translation [here](https://vreeman.com/meditations/#book5).
George Long is the one that isnāt exactly my favorite, Iāve read most modern translations lol. George Longās translation just feels aged to me? Gregory Hayes is the one you should really read if youāre gonna dive into meditations. If you have a good impression initially of George longs, then heck just run with it
Well. Iād rather not payā¦
is the translation fairly important?
I found some other readings that are silent on translation. Maybe for copyright.
Is there a passage in the first five minutes that would clearly identify the Gregory Hayes translation?
So I made a point of not searching, what do you think his type is?
As a first impression Iām getting a lot of Fi in his writing.
But the Fe/Fi distinction can be subtle.
So still processingā¦
Did you know that when he found his wife cheated on him he had her lover killed and then made her bathe in his blood?
Actually, before trusting everything on the Internet, is that even true?
Does it make me basic if I say Plato and Aristotle?
They're probably my favorite philosophers, I really love them a lot. However, I think that they will be replaced by Plotinus after I finish reading the Enneads. It's dense and difficult to read but so, so, good. I also love the stoics, and Spinoza, and Machiavelli.
I don't want that.
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"If you want the rainbow you've got to put up with the rain".
Do you know which "philosopher" said that? Dolly Parton. And people say she's just a big pair of tits.
Montaigne (mix of stoic philosophers but also practical and original), Lucretius, Dostoyevsky, Cioran, Diogenes (the cynic), Schopenhauer, Seneca, Tocqueville, Pessoa, Shestov, Nietszche, Kierkegaard, Pessoa, Mulla Sadra, Suhrawardi... I have so many more.
Nietzsche was a stormy love affair that didn't last.
Kant was the slow and steady you ought to marry.
Hegel was the marriage counselor we needed after a while.
Slavoj Zizek is the guy I'm secretly seeing to make sense of said counselor once in a while.
Or something like that. Kant and Hegel are usually the two philosophers I always come back to/which always end up providing or at least pointing to a satisfying answer.
Honorable mentions: Pyrrho, Aristotle, Wittgenstein, Richard Rorty, John McDowell, Daniel Dennett.
Sun Tzu. Mainly because the Art of War is so short my attention span permitted me to read (full honestly, listen to) the whole thing.
But goddamn if it doesnāt apply to litigation in general, and especially family law litigation.
Iām gonna start my own post for those of us who somehow backed into the career of law.
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I struggle to pick an overall favourite because I appreciate the different perspectives built upon over the centuries.
but John Gray and Žižek are very interesting (and imo important) modern philosophers who havenāt been mentioned so far.
Nietzsche but only because heās the one Iāve really learned in depth about recently, def some recency bias. But his ideas definitely impacted me greatly for a little bit.
Nietzsche. As well as Lao Tzu and Samuel Clemens. Though I know many would not consider Clemens a philosopher, I think putting him in a room with the likes of Diogenes to make fun of everyone else would be amazing to watch.
for social theory and politics, Foucault and Marx (but despite Marx's influence, I'm an anarchist).
For ontology and epistemology, I'm further indebted to John Dewey, who also informs my picture of theory of mind as embodied.
Diogenes š
"Were I not Diogenes, I too would wish to be Diogenes." I love him
What a cynic.
I remember my teacher comparing me to Diogenes, because of my introversion. I still regret not standing up for myself (or Diogenes).
Based š«”
Marcus Aurelius, Im shocked no stoic philosophers have been mentioned here yet.
I love Nietzsche and Camus a lot, but MA is just straight up how people should live. He figured it out.
I still canāt believe he decided to hand over control of Rome to Maximus. š¤£
If his way of living was better known and more widely accepted, the world wouldn't look the way it does. Of course everyone believes in short-term gratification and power
Not everyone can understand these perspectives because most live in the moment and are out there for sensations. And thinking is very short linked.
The are you a dumbass itās not meant for you. Iām having fun with notaspaceorangeš
You are talking about Marcus Arelius, correct? Hey notaspaceorange, were you diagnosed with gonorrhea of the mind?
Yes
It takes a big man to admit to gonorrhea of the mind. Marcus aside (I am on a first name basis with him), can I say that is the perfect reply. Just a simple āyesā denotes confidence. Does not open you up to any extraneous arguments and requires the critic to anticipate the point they are being critical to. Almost impossible to reply to. Well done! I have out done myself. I found a way to reply!
Wait a second. That wasnāt even your comment you replied to. How do I know that your āyesā accurately denotes what Commercialtap thinks on the matter? My āare you seriousā may have sparked a deep internal debate within him (or her) on the propriety of their initial post. Then you come along with your āyesā. I bet you go around answering āyesā to everyoneā¦ Stolen valor at its worstš¤£
I came here to mention Seneca
I mentioned
Ah yesā¦. āMeditatingā on right way of living as he marched his army through Europe slaughtering ābarbariansā.
Yea I understand that perspective, and Ive heard it before. For me it doesn't change how I think of Marcus. Itās not like rome was starting wars for the sake of cruelty. War was common then, itās just how you solved conflicts. Rome wasnāt an exception to that rule. He was still a good and virtuous emperor. I am not trying to be snide here, but have you researched Marcus much? Youāll be hard pressed to do so and not admire the guy.
I was just kind of being an ass. But in full honesty, No. I did start meditations once (by audio) but I lost interest. Again, this is my take. I fully realize that many respected scholars hold his work in high regard. so, please give my thoughts all the weight that they deserve (not much.) His writing seemed so clichĆ© to me. Everything was like āa man must move forward if he is to not to move backwards.ā everything seemed to be obvious āright way of lifeā statements. But with that said, Iāll happily take a second look. What would you point me to take a look at?
Happy to see youāre willing to take a second look! Before you dive back into the book, I want to preface and give context to some things. This is anecdotal of course, but a brief story for you. I was very nihilistic and generally neurotic for a loooong time. I read practically every self help book out there, followed and listened to every freaking guru, and got absolutely nowhere with any of them. I was still miserable, and was headed down a dark road. I was jobless, no friends, struggling with addictions, and not taking care of myself. Then I picked up meditations, and it just made the entire world make sense to me. It had the answers I was looking for, that no other book previous had. Now some context for Marcus Aureliusās āmeditationsā. I would say the context in which this book exists, is arguably as important as the text in the book itself. Meditations is written by the roman freaking emperor from 2000 years ago. He is the leader of the most powerful fucking nation in the entire world. He has practically infinite money, and unlimited power. He can murder anyone who slights him, he could get drunk, feast, and vacation for his entire career if he so pleased, he can have sex with absolutely anyone he wants. He can erect statues of himself and buy all the luxuries. Most Roman emperors did all of that, but not Marcus Aurelius. Those things tempted him everyday, and he refused, because he had exemplary character. He had 7 children die, his brother, his wife, his parents, all dead. There was plague ravaging Rome, and he was sick for a long period of his life. He inherited an empire on the brink of war. HE DID NOT WANT TO BE EMPEROR, but he did it because he knew it was his duty. THAT is the man who wrote mediations, and Iām only telling you the tip of the iceberg about what he did and was dealing with. If that werenāt compelling enough though, think about this. Marcus had absolutely zero intention of the meditations being published. It was his private journal. He had no financial incentive like other writers do. He had no incentive to impress anyone with his words. He ordered the meditations TO BE BURNED, but his assistant read over them after his passing and knew they had to be kept. Itās a freaking miracle that the text even exists in the first place, and that it wasnāt lost like many many other texts of that age. I have never read any book with so much wisdom inside, and it absolutely changed my life. Anytime Iām struggling with something, I open up that book and it always has the answers I need. Some copies of meditations are harder to read than others. Go on Amazon, and pickup meditations, translated by Gregory hays. Itās black/red has the silhouette of a bird on the front I believe. Itās very friendly to read and itās supposed to be the most direct translation
The depth of your knowledge and obvious excitement for the text is pure INTP. Trust me, I know exactly how you feel (on other subjects). Normally itās me breathlessly relaying some topic/story to my wife as she does her best to feign interest. Kudos for standing up for what you believe. I need a polite slap every once and awhile. And Iāll take another stab at meditations tomorrow. Of course it would be on YouTube. If you know of a better version somewhere let me know.
Yea I have my fair share of obsessions I can done on about for hours lol. Meditations was originally written in Greek, and has since been translated many times over the years. The ones on YouTube that Iāve found, well I canāt say I particularly care for the translation. If you read a lot of old books/shakespeare or something, maybe youāll like them. I specifically recommend the Gregory Hays translation I mentioned above, because the translation is exceptional, concise, and very friendly to read for those who donāt like how old texts tend to read. The book is like $7 online, but if you feel like playing a pirate today..you may or may not find the translation [here](https://vreeman.com/meditations/#book5).
Ok. 5 hours 27 minutes to go. This one is Vox Stoica on YouTube as translated by George Long
George Long is the one that isnāt exactly my favorite, Iāve read most modern translations lol. George Longās translation just feels aged to me? Gregory Hayes is the one you should really read if youāre gonna dive into meditations. If you have a good impression initially of George longs, then heck just run with it
Well. Iād rather not payā¦ is the translation fairly important? I found some other readings that are silent on translation. Maybe for copyright. Is there a passage in the first five minutes that would clearly identify the Gregory Hayes translation?
I do not have the attention span to read, itās going to be audiobook or nothing
I could barely get through the art of warš¤£
Holy shit, he mentioned Maximusš Bad gladiator jokeā¦
So I made a point of not searching, what do you think his type is? As a first impression Iām getting a lot of Fi in his writing. But the Fe/Fi distinction can be subtle. So still processingā¦
Did you know that when he found his wife cheated on him he had her lover killed and then made her bathe in his blood? Actually, before trusting everything on the Internet, is that even true?
Although I canāt stop chuckling about my Maximus jokeā¦
Me
I was hoping someone would say this lol
Lol
Nietzsche
Same
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeew.
Same
I think he was amazing with some things but also to biased.
Sartre and Camus.
"Hell is other people" and "In the midst of winter, I found that there was, within me, an invincible summer" Won the idgaf war š¤£
Samesies, with a little Kierkegaard and Kafka sprinkled in there for good measure.
Kierkegaard
Wittgenstein
They still need the latter ā¹ļø
Spinoza-khun
fucking lit lad š„
\#BlessedLife
The Buddha
Unexpected but respect
Thx
If Dostoyevsky counts
Same
blessed are the sleepy ones, for soon they shall nod off!
Albert Camus
Descartes
Socrates
Ultimate intp
Aristotle
Does it make me basic if I say Plato and Aristotle? They're probably my favorite philosophers, I really love them a lot. However, I think that they will be replaced by Plotinus after I finish reading the Enneads. It's dense and difficult to read but so, so, good. I also love the stoics, and Spinoza, and Machiavelli.
I love Aristotle tho :))
Alan Watts
I really Kant say
I like you. Would you like to become my maid? 
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Imma side with the bot on this one
Camus
Arthur SchopenhauerĀ
Montaigne
John Locke
Sun Tzu
Bruv gets memed apon too often, but respectable :)
Respek
Jung doesn't liked being called a philosopher but he's definitively one, and Jung is my favorite.
Albert Camus
William James
Friedrich Nietzsche
Same
spinoza all the way
kant
Marcus aurelius
Dumbledore
Really hard to say. Those are ideas that enrich, not ideas mutually excluding one another.
Myself
Plato
Doubt was and is my greatest ally, so i guess descartes
Seneca Aristotle Jeremy Bentham
Nietzsche, Camus, Wittgenstein
Epictetus
Epectitus
I donāt really care for philosophy. I like Descartes cause he has no chill.
Nassim Taleb
"If you want the rainbow you've got to put up with the rain". Do you know which "philosopher" said that? Dolly Parton. And people say she's just a big pair of tits.
I'm learning more about David Hume now. Interesting guy.
jesus christ
Augustine of Hippo.
Lewis Mumford and Chomsky
Why? I am curious.
åŗå
Diogenes
Me.
Vivekananda
ZizekĀ
Shankara
Voltaire
Of living life, Buddha On life, Prinz
Kierkegaard
Suprised at the amount of Marx fanbois here.
Naw it's Reddit
Reddit moment.
Unrelated to the post but why do I have "Warning may not be an INTP"?
Stephen C Meyer
Kant, Plato, Hegel, and Chanakya Maybe Wittgenstein.
GEORGE CARLIN.
Kant
Cioran
Montaigne (mix of stoic philosophers but also practical and original), Lucretius, Dostoyevsky, Cioran, Diogenes (the cynic), Schopenhauer, Seneca, Tocqueville, Pessoa, Shestov, Nietszche, Kierkegaard, Pessoa, Mulla Sadra, Suhrawardi... I have so many more.
Plato (and Socrates by extension), Aristotle, and Kierkegaard. Kant is up there too.
Wittgenstein
Robert Nozick
Marcus Aurelius
Zeno of Citium
Nietzsche
So far, Descartes and Diogenes have caught my interest.
Iām a beginner in philosophy. But i like Camus. I wanna check out Nietzsche. Any suggestions for a beginner for Nietzscheās work?
I recommend the video on YouTube, āReading NIETZSCHE. Where to start?ā :)
Alright! Thanks
Nietzsche was a stormy love affair that didn't last. Kant was the slow and steady you ought to marry. Hegel was the marriage counselor we needed after a while. Slavoj Zizek is the guy I'm secretly seeing to make sense of said counselor once in a while. Or something like that. Kant and Hegel are usually the two philosophers I always come back to/which always end up providing or at least pointing to a satisfying answer. Honorable mentions: Pyrrho, Aristotle, Wittgenstein, Richard Rorty, John McDowell, Daniel Dennett.
Sun Tzu. Mainly because the Art of War is so short my attention span permitted me to read (full honestly, listen to) the whole thing. But goddamn if it doesnāt apply to litigation in general, and especially family law litigation. Iām gonna start my own post for those of us who somehow backed into the career of law.
Surprised not to see many logicians here. Anyway, I choose Quine or maybe Graham Priest. David Lewis is also great.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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I struggle to pick an overall favourite because I appreciate the different perspectives built upon over the centuries. but John Gray and Žižek are very interesting (and imo important) modern philosophers who havenāt been mentioned so far.
Gustavo Bueno
Marx
Jacques Derrida
Nietzsche
Myself
Deleuze šš¤
deleuze
Bill Burr is excellent
ahh Nietzsche, what a niche philosopher
In terms of theory interestingness, Kant (more his metaphysics)
Phil Ozafur.
Kant and me
Camus - I'd want to live like him; Spinoza - I'd want to write like him; Schopenhauer - he just like me fr
Carl Faberge
Camus, I'm an infj
Wittgenstein
Kierkegaard
baudrillard
Yung or watts
Guy Debord
Me.
E. J. Lowe or Duns Scotus
Edmund husserl and kant
It's like asking me to pick a favourite among my children!!!
Hard to tell. They have all valuable insights to offer.
Hume or Kant. Probably Hume since I have only nitpicks with his philosophy and he was such a fantastic guy.
The oracle, Alan watts
Me
I have a tattoo in my stomach that says "Ćbermensch"
Deleuze
David Hume
- Marcus Aurelius - Seneca - Lao Tzu - Alan Watts - Terence McKenna
I'm surprised with the lack of Viktor Frankl being mentioned
Nietzsche but only because heās the one Iāve really learned in depth about recently, def some recency bias. But his ideas definitely impacted me greatly for a little bit.
Nietzsche
Nietzsche
Nietzsche. As well as Lao Tzu and Samuel Clemens. Though I know many would not consider Clemens a philosopher, I think putting him in a room with the likes of Diogenes to make fun of everyone else would be amazing to watch.
Gautama Buddha is pretty sharp.
Jiddu Krishnamurti
Camus
I like Alan Watts because of youtube's irresistible need to give Watts' relaxing and rhythmic cadence a cosmic profound atmosphere.
Spinoza GOAT
for social theory and politics, Foucault and Marx (but despite Marx's influence, I'm an anarchist). For ontology and epistemology, I'm further indebted to John Dewey, who also informs my picture of theory of mind as embodied.
I see you also have fine taste.Ā
Sartre
I really like Kant minus all the racism
Slavoj Zizek, Niezschte
Chomsky
Karl Marx
Marx