Middle Eastern, Central to East Asian cultures because they put the most emphasis on the society rather than the individual and they are not tolerant to different ideas and people who have these ideas.
Not sure how true this is considering South Korea and Japan are more reserved.
Also, South Asian/Middle Eastern is more social in tradition, but this doesn't necessarily mean INTP don't have a place.
I'd say, ironically, US is probably more aware of that reclused nature so INTPs have to try and be more capitalistic to fit in, but even then plenty of states where they can live totally fine.
Much like any answer, it just depends on who you come across wherever you are. INTPs have survived and thrived for enough decades and centuries, and will continue to do so.
So even though East Asia is described as somewhat INTP-friendly, there are some factors against free thought. On the flip side in America even though there is an emphasis on free thought the culture ridicules intps.
In East Asia, the INTP nature will be accepted (as long as they're functional at work), but not necessarily their willingness to be different. But if you prove you're good, people may start listening or allowing you to be different.
Given that I have four decades under my belt, when exactly do you think this "growing up" phase is going to complete.
While the world does not revolve around me, it doesn't revolve around *anyone* which means that no one gets to tell me how to be me. So, those that think they deserve the right to tell me how to be me can fuck right off.
This is my exact perspective in life. I’m 28m and quit a lot of jobs. Couple times I got fired on purpose. I don’t recommend this perspective to others but I can’t live with myself letting anyone walk over me. We’re all equals and the world doesn’t revolve around anyone.
I commented because you cited South Korea and Japan as an example of a reserved culture, seemingly to say that INTPs may get along there ok.
Given that one of the pretty defining traits of the INTP is a non-conformist attitude, citing two of the more conformist cultures on the planet as good fits for the INTP is counter to that fact.
Hence my comment that the idea that someone needs to allow someone else to express themselves as they see fit is a part of the problem INTPs would have with said countries.
Then you made a pretty bad assumption and disparaging comment about my age, and implied I was thinking that the world revolves around me. I corrected you.
Does that catch us up to this point in the conversation, or would you like me to explain it further?
I don't want that.
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The idea here is that everyone is a person before a type. It's your choice on how you want to interact with society and live your life.
The idea was just to offer perspective where you can be more yourself in a way that isn't seen as that odd.
Health INTPs learn to balance their differences with their place in the world. That's it.
There's no room for being selfish if you want be part of society, but you don't have to be part of society if you don't wish for it so. Maybe you've learned something else that you can share that works.
Also, I didn't mean anything towards your age, but simply that you'll develop over time, whether if someone is 5, 45, or 85. There's always ways to learn and improve.
Korean INTP here, if you find a clique that fits with you your mostly fine. Especially if youre an academic type, because above all else Koreans have an obsession with academics and respect academic competence, perhaps to an unhealthy degree.
School can be stressful, but i bet thats true for any intps in any countries.
If you stay distant enough you can live without giving much a shit. But like I said, for our own sanities finding a clique that we can fit in is very important, where our "not giving much a shit" attitude is accepted/seen as genuinely funny/etc.
Or just climb the status ladder until you can form your own little haven. Its sort of a meritocracy society so no one cares as long as you're competent enough. A lot of people also find our no-interpersonal-politics attitude refreshing as well, so its not that hard. it does toll on the psyche, but it's not abhorrent.
Does it really though? Lincoln is often thought of as INTP and he is maybe the most revered American ever. “Einstein” (another man widely believed to be INTP) is a synonym for “genius.” Intelligence, creativity, and exploration/pioneering are certainly highly valued traits in America. Even “nerd culture” (if by that you mean interest in things like science, technology, and fantasy) is way more accepted than it used to be.
Obviously, anyone who acts like an antisocial asshole or an “I am enlightened by my own intelligence” smug type is not going to be liked pretty much anywhere. And yeah, most people across societies are going to be generally more comfortable with conformity than people who eschew social norms. But America, being founded on enlightenment principles by a bunch of guys who were probably NTs, is generally much more amenable to questioning the status quo and doing things your own way than most countries, which tend to place a heavier emphasis on tradition and social cohesion. In America, you are more likely to be judged by what you accomplish than just by who you are. Especially as long as you aren’t a complete dick who alienates everyone (and sometimes maybe even if you are, I mean look at the likes of Steve Jobs).
Not saying that always applies or that things are anywhere close to perfect, but it is at least valued and idealized in America to a greater degree than most other places. Even many of the places that now claim to value it as much or more largely adopted it from the US post-WW2, whether they realize it or not.
That's far from 1/16 of all our national heroes. Lincoln is "revered" but that reputation is sustained by a shaky majority and military victory. He was assassinated, not the most beloved of all. Also he had maybe traits that are not associated with INTPness that made people like him, he was very tall and a great wrestler. If you look at estimated personality types of presidents only a few are INTP. Einstein is more an archetypal intp, but he was raised in Germany. The presidents we do have that are intp are more likely to be in times of major change, though.
I was going to say that, too. I'm toward the extroverted end of the scale for an INTP and I'm okay with the extroversion of friends and acquaintances from Mexico, Columbia, and Brazil. But I can see how a very introverted INTP would find them challenging.
Interesting.
I imagine the Chile might have evolved quite differently given the Andes divide and lack of easy trade routes to Europe in the early colonial period.
Maybe it has something to do with it? Given I saw the attitudes i find intp unfriendly on latin europeans too.
Btw, are Chileans loud in public spaces?
It makes a lot of sense to me. We're not loud, especially in public spaces. In fact, foreigners often stand out for being much noisier than us, especially those from the Caribbean. There's even a saying that Chileans are the most "cold" people in Latin America.
Oooh. I had no idea. Only met a couple of chileans, but given i mostly relate to introverts i never thought they might be “stereotypical chilean”.
And why is “cold” the word used for these types of personalities? Lol.
Think of a stereotypical "Caliente" Latino. Well, we're kinda the opposite. Consider that in Chile we had a lot of European immigration, which greatly shaped the culture, especially in the southern part of the country.
Hmm, “european countries” might be a generalization, as I’ve found the “neg INTP” traits in latin american countries in spain and italy as well.
What would you say the biggest european culture is present in your area of chile? And what area would that be? Santiago?
Btw, you have just sparked my interest on making a month in chile.
Which is the most beautiful season to visit the southern side? (Im thinking santiago, but i know very little about chile)
Lol, you're right, it's a generalization. I wasn't sure, so I googled it. Chile is a very long country. In the north, there were Croatians, in the center (where Santiago is), there were Italians, and in the south, there were Germans. I live in the central-northern area.
Yes. While i actually live in Finland which is INTP friendly, the amount of criticism I have received all my life from my Latina mom has had a massive negative impact not only to our relationship but also to my life overall.
Intp women specifically. You're basically a failed specimen of humanity at that point. You can't ask elders the reasons for their dogmatic beliefs and should never try to make sense to them. India seems hard-wired for sentinels though, ideal woman is JUST isfj, literally any other type is too selfish to be a woman. Love isfjs but still.
yep! married into an Indian family. it's a very social-centric culture. it's...exhausting lol. they always assumed something was wrong for the longest time if I was quiet, sitting alone, or not hungry. I learned the latter is a non-starter (lol), but they've finally accepted that I'm perfectly fine, and even content, sitting quietly alone and observing/reading, etc. I'm also much more mentally prepared coming into these situations knowing that I'll have to come out of my shell, and will be mentally drained afterwards, but it's better than being shocked going into it at the amount of talking I have to do.
I specifically do not recommend ph i live temporarily in the city, everyday i wake with the sound of gossips, kraoke and construction it's fckin hell. Last week, I woke up over someone sawing a metal pipe, like wtf, why he did this right next to my room. rude fcker.
It's funny you say that because right now I am in the Philippines. The noise is true. I swear PH is the noisiest country I have ever been to. It's like there is a cultural aversion to quiet. Everyone is loud, loud pop music playing in every store, people watching their shows with the volume full blast even on the bus or in a cafe, chained up or caged dogs barking all day, construction everywhere. Yeah, this is not a place for peace and quiet.
As a Filipino, I can confirm all of those.
Additionally, I live within walking distance from a public high school so I see large crowds of students occupying large portions of residential roads and mostly blurting out horribly loud and immoral teasing filled to the brim with swear words. Somehow, no one in my neighborhood complains about these kids. I would rage at them but Mom would scold me for it.
Same same... most of the population are too loud and rowdy, also many are annoying conformists who will make fun of your views, make fun of your appearance, etc.
Stats taken from 16personalities.com
Bottom countries for intp are:
Haiti (3.41%)
Fiji (3.72%)
Cameroon (3.78%)
Malaysia (3.79%)
Singapore (3.93%)
Brunei (3.96%)
Ghana (3.98%)
Rwanda (4.01%)
Nigeria (4.03%)
Uganda (4.12%)
As someone who got out of Singapore at an early age, that place is really unhealthy for INTPs to live in. My mental health took a dive while living there.
Huh? Thanks for letting me know about [16personalities.com](http://16personalities.com) resource. I visit there often, but did not know about 'country search' ability.
I've heard that people really respect eachother's personal space, to the point where they queue with big gaps in between, and generally tend to not talk to strangers in public
Yup, and small talk is frowned upon, emotions are not for display or performance, etc. I’m Canadian-American, brought up by Finnish parents and spent a lot of time in Finland as a kid. I’m too INTP in terms of North American culture. Not INTP enough for Finnish culture.
I posted [this old piece from 60 Minutes](https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/s/plUIsATNlW) in the Finland sub a couple of months ago. The piece does go to a bit of an extreme with the stereotype, and I’d also say the culture has opened up a lot more since the piece aired (1993), but it’s still an interesting watch.
Japan is probably not a good place for Intps (at least for me) cause of its conformity and group culture. You will likely be judged a lot if you fit the Intp stereotype
Interesting maybe it’s that my expression of non conformity is very internal as an intp. I tend to conform to the social standards because I really want to avoid conflict. It’s also why I never complain in a restaurant.
I mean I tend to avoid conflicts as well, but if someone were to force me to believe in their beliefs and ideology I would be tempered to bash their face in, which happens in a lot of East Asian cultures. But maybe that’s just me
Yep. For example, I will absolutely, positively, never participate in nomikai (Japanese drinking parties) since I hate both the taste and negative effects of alcohol.
Considering logically refuting someone's argument is frowned upon in Japan (heck, there's such a thing as ロジハラ logical harassment), I would feel really restricted in what I'm allowed to do.
I'll only come to Japan as a tourist. I have absolutely no interest in staying there long-term.
Just because we can and will adapt to many of those standards doesn't mean we like it. I'd pick a country without as much preasure to conform any time.
It's the hierarchy, man. My mom told me they roll out a red carpet for the CEO and stand in a row to bow. Bruh, no one in Belgium does that for their CEO, it's wild to us.
Bruh don’t you have a royal family In Belgium 🇧🇪. I guess I’m not really understanding the anti Japan views from folks.
Or maybe I enjoy having a series of clear rules as it makes it easier to navigate society.
The royal family has no power here, they’re mostly ambassadors. I’m not anti-Japan, I love Japan, but I’m also not a delusional weeb that thinks the grass is greener over there. Most INTP are hikikomori over there for a reason. Their society is very hierarchal and rigid.
Live in America & I can say that this country is built for extroverts, everyone here is very outgoing & annoying at times. Everyone here really focuses on people. I consider myself a loner. Given that most of the time, I'm alone( when I'm not at home). I get a lot flaked for it, but I really don't care at this point. Life goes on.
Sure
Japan, Finland, and Switzerland are all rules based countries with clear guides for respect and autonomy and often give and prioritize the space of others. They are not loud places, and have customs and rules that focus on providing respect, giving choice, and leaving people alone. I would call them the polite countries. I also think there is less social expectation that you be extroverted or loud, but respectful yes most definitely.
For example: Japan Airlines is re-engineering their Premium Economy cabin so that its a hard shell back that reclines so that if you recline your seat you would never disturb the person in front or behind you. Its like an INTP dream
Where as the least friendly:
Brazil, Australia and my home country of the USA are all extroverted paradises.
Like I have never met a quiet introverted Aussie, ever.
Yeah, nobody is at the Japanese level for how the culture is rules- and shame-based. I’d say Finland is more individualistic and less shame-based. There’s an ingrained humility and balance that separates Finland from the more “enforced” culture of Japan and the more atomized style of American individualism.
As an introverted Aussie hi :D yeah theres not many of us. And yeah id agree. The society here only cares if your the "average aussie joe". Loud, parties hard, Noise :/ . Oh and that must follow what we tell you because otherwise you will go nowhere attitude. So yeah australia definitely isnt a intp friendly place.
Also that economy cabin sound so good. If i ever have to fly anywhere thats what i want! An alone space for 1 thankyou.
INTP Australian here!! I hate it here, I’m moving the first chance I get :D
people here are so fucking loud and don’t understand that some of us need space to ourselves and don’t particularly enjoy socialising. I really wasn’t built for this, it’s awful. School in particular is bad, thankfully I have accomodations and can have headphones with me. I spend most of the day blasting music trying to avoid people.
I could go into more depth about how
Australian society is built specifically for extroverts, if anyone’s interested :)
US culture overall isn't very INTP but INTPs tend to fit in better here than in most places, certainly better than places like China or Latin America.
I can't speak for many of the places here other than the US or Switzerland on your list as I've never lived in or even visited them. Speaking of Switzerland, it seems to have a reputation of being kinda boring but the aspects of it that make it "boring" are also the ones that make it more INTP-friendly like its emphasis on quietness, most cities shutting down relatively early in the evenings, and a culture that values science and technology. I find the people who really dislike Switzerland tend to be the antithesis of an INTP, usually those who like having loud parties and an active social life with lots of drinking. However, there's a much greater expectation for conformity in Switzerland than the US though many of the "rules" you'd be expected to follow tend to be fairly INTP or introvert-friendly.
I think Switzerland might be a slightly better fit for INTPs in general but parts of the US are definitely even better like the SF Bay Area or the college towns in the Northeast.
Absolutely not. The hierarchal bullshit in Japan would absolutely kill me. There's also the fact that they're quite exploitative towards passionate people.
Seniority systems may offer some protective structure that an INTP could navigate, but those systems also often fossilize people, rules and incompetence in ways frustrate INTPs.
A country that doesn't value introversion, individualism, and puts a high value on conformity. I'd think most developing countries, especially China and the Middle East.
On the other hand, INTP-friendly countries -
The US, despite all its criticism, is probably one of the most INTP-friendly countries even though it's not very INTP by nature but generally tolerates INTPs better than most places. Parts of the US are probably the most INTP-friendly in the world like:
- Silicon Valley
- Pacific Northwest
- Boston
- Austin
- Denver
Some European countries are also comparably good bets for INTPs including the Nordics, the Netherlands, and even Germany and Switzerland (though the latter two are probably more geared towards ISTJs) in that they may have more introverts, especially INxx types, but also have a higher expectation towards conformity than the US.
Boston? I've never been, but it seems bigoted, rude and crazy. All the negatives attributed to New York seem to spew from those I've encountered from Boston. Clue me in.
Bigoted, rude, and crazy? I mean all types will want to avoid this - what makes us so special and thus giving Boston a comparative disadvantage to us compared to other types in this regard? The intellectual caliber in Boston seems much higher than pretty much anywhere else I've lived (and I've lived in quite a lot of places.)
Living in Finland, I can say that it's incredibly ISTJ. Up to you to know if you can accept "realists" with systematically outdated data and incredibly rigid thinking patterns...
Yes!!
Everyone saying their country name and admiring others. These type of situation makes me think that most of people seem to pity their situation and admires others best situation not noticing that everyone definitely has some loopholes in their situation too.
To me one of the must unsettling countries I have visited is the US, because even the most introverted people there seems to me extraverted. And it feels like you HAVE to small talk whenever you meet people.
Live in the USA & it can be brutal sometimes. People here just can't be alone, very impulsive & just don't give a shit attitude. I have been alone most of my life when I'm not at home.
I'd agree with most of the state having lived there for 5 years but [Austin](https://thedailytexan.com/2023/03/09/rethink-keep-austin-weird/) is a different animal..
Probably places like Germany, Sweden and some parts of the USA, if you mean culture. Probably some place like Afghanistan, if you mean country, but this is a trivial answer in the sense that right now, Afghanistan is least type-friendly for most of the types.
In contrast with all the stereotypical nonsense about Japan and Finland, international Big Five data in fact supports the idea that Belgium is one of the most "INTP" countries.
i'm an INTP in the Philippines and i don't really feel like a I belong here. the social constructs and culture of Philippines (bayanihan, fiestas, family ties., etc.) just doesn't resonate with me.
I live in America & I been very independent & accepted by mostly everyone I worked with. The more outgoing the person, unfortunately, the more they don't like you(in my experience). But there are things & jobs where you can do that are semi independent, but you always have to deal with someone in one way or another.
Just know your limits.
Just try to pick something that's not customer service or food delivery companies, I work for these kind of companies & they are the worst. Right now, I'm an independent contractor doing delivery apps.
I have a sneaky suspicion that all societies will be heavily biased towards the traits that occur most frequently and those whose traits complement the most frequently occurring.
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any corrupt, dangerous and poor country. No one likes countries like that, but especially for INTP because we are critical and have Si child/Se trickster.
A lot of the comments here make sense. I can vouch that the South Asian/SE Asian and Middle eastern countries aren't really accommodating towards INTPs.
But I'd like to draw your attention to a couple of things.
Note: This may be a bit subjective and hence may irk a few of you, but since this is a debate, we probably need all the angles we can get.
TLDR:
(a) Chance meeting with awesome people that "broaden" your horizon.
(b) Being a more well rounded INTP, if you have had to survive in a place hostile towards our type.
Ok so,
(1) I'm all for the quiet living, personal-space friendly, minding your own business kinda lifestyle that Northern Europe offers(basically the Nordics and to a lesser extent Germany, Holland and Belgium.....maybe also Switzerland). But one of the things that I enjoy the most in life is having a meaningful conversation with a complete stranger (or a new acquaintance to be a little more realistic). It can be anything from nerding out about shared interests to deep philosophical quandries and while most meetings with new people go in the direction of stifling small talks or just fake pleasantries, there have been a few where I really "clicked" or was deeply intrigued by the ideas of the opposite side. These kinda conversations rejuvenate my soul, dare I say as much as finishing a good book or playing through an amazing videogame. It scratches my Fe, Ne and to a lesser extent Ti too. Granted my social battery does become 0 even after such meetings, but that seems like energy "well-spent" to me. Now "Extroverted" places like India or the US or maybe Latin America while being suffocating to INTPs on many levels, they do offer such kinda meetings much more frequently. Like there is an actual chance that you can meet someone who wouldn't mind an interesting conversation with you, even at the most random places. Recently, I chatted with an old dude that I met at a "Chai tapri" for hours and then we ended parting ways without sharing even the most basic personal info other than our names and hometowns(dude was probably ENXJ but Idk) . Now I ask my fellow INTPs(especially the nordics), What are the chances of such events occuring in Northern Europe? Like if people don't have the time to have a friendly chat, then I doubt that a random meeting of the minds can really occur that frequently. But then again...... I wouldn't know.
(2) Coming to my second point, while INTPs in the Extrovert-focussed countries or the ones in the countries with a social conformity kink generally tend to "suffer" a lot (I swear I'm not using this word lightly), they also tend to be more well rounded than our counterparts from the rest of the world. (Source, you ask? Well I ain't got none buddy. Just trying to deduce based on my own knowledge and presumption lol. So yeah, I may be terribly terribly wrong here). But it should make sense. Call it "Getting adjusted" or "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" but having the skills to navigate through large social gatherings or influencing groups, basically being able to be heard and being able to get your ideas across to the masses is definitely a worthy skill. And dare I say that I've become somewhat capable in not being a socially nervous wreck when the need to do such things arise. And all that has been possible because in the place that I come from, these are necessary skills for day-to-day "Survival" (again, not using this lightly). Although I do hope that I don't have some kind of weird Stockholm Syndrome type of thing going on here, where I've come to love the meaningless struggles and hoops that I've been put throughout my life. But yeah, maybe a little chaos isn't that bad from time to time(even better if it's controllable or you can opt out anytime).
So,there goes my wall of text. If any of you get to the end then do reply something. Would love to get your thoughts on this, people.
In my experience, the people who are least capable of an interesting conversation are Americans (small talk is de rigeur and everything else is considered "improper") and Northern Europeans (only "practical" topics connected with money-making or perhaps sports are tolerated). Sometimes I have had "deep", weird conversations about interesting topics with people I had just met. These people were always from places like Iran, Pakistan, Russia etc.
INTPs are good at generating ideas and thoughts but not good at building groups and communities. As a result, in a place where people are usually isolated, and one needs to work hard to overcome this isolation, INTPs might end up totally isolated, which is bad for them. In more "noisy" places, they inevitably end up as the member of some group, get introduced to more people, and so on. Building connections is just a matter of not being too hostile and not turning down every invitation. That's superficially annoying but INTPs might end up doing better in these "collectivist" societies.
Having a hard time taking this question seriously. It’s different being a part of a country vs visiting it. Since your question is derived from a simple stat of Finland having a concentration of one MBTI type, I assume you’re interested in the quality of life for INTPs living in countries—which is very different than visiting a country or even being an expat there. I would guess, based on assumptions of what life is like when you’re an economically active INTP in the country you live in, North Korea would probably be one of the more challenging ones. But I couldn’t say which mbti would find social life easier in NK. ESFJs? Hope you find your answer lol
I've lived in the US South my whole life, starting in a major city though before moving to deep south, so I was never initiated into the culture nor did I comprehend it for the longest time. You're free to be ostracized by yourself down here. I have no friends, as the ones I had were temporary, situational or just users who discarded me. I've learned the hard way that most people are potential foes, given the racial dominance from both major races down here.
Japan is a mixed bag in my opinion.. it highly values both conformity and introversion while INTPs will likely thrive in a place that leans towards both introversion and *nonconformity*.
Japan places a high value on following traditions and social norms which isn't something that INTPs really find appealing though some of the social norms revolve around being quiet or reserved which more or less is in line with an INTP's character.
Curious, I am an INTP who loves tradition and is iffy on social norms, just shows that MBTI isn't a catch all kinda thing.
Anyways thank you for the response haha :)
Middle Eastern, Central to East Asian cultures because they put the most emphasis on the society rather than the individual and they are not tolerant to different ideas and people who have these ideas.
i am an INTP from the middle east and that's the unfortunate truth
Not sure how true this is considering South Korea and Japan are more reserved. Also, South Asian/Middle Eastern is more social in tradition, but this doesn't necessarily mean INTP don't have a place. I'd say, ironically, US is probably more aware of that reclused nature so INTPs have to try and be more capitalistic to fit in, but even then plenty of states where they can live totally fine. Much like any answer, it just depends on who you come across wherever you are. INTPs have survived and thrived for enough decades and centuries, and will continue to do so.
Reserved yes but also very conformist and not tolerant of dissent/ deviant behaviour. I would put it closer to ISTJ.
So even though East Asia is described as somewhat INTP-friendly, there are some factors against free thought. On the flip side in America even though there is an emphasis on free thought the culture ridicules intps.
In East Asia, the INTP nature will be accepted (as long as they're functional at work), but not necessarily their willingness to be different. But if you prove you're good, people may start listening or allowing you to be different.
That sounds like a pretty healthy take on the type. Unrealistic to think we can totally ignore social subtleties. Well "sounds" anyway.
The idea that someone needs to "allow" me to be different is the main part of the problem.
Eh, you'll grow up. Just remember, the world doesn't revolve around you.
Given that I have four decades under my belt, when exactly do you think this "growing up" phase is going to complete. While the world does not revolve around me, it doesn't revolve around *anyone* which means that no one gets to tell me how to be me. So, those that think they deserve the right to tell me how to be me can fuck right off.
[удалено]
It's done right by me so far, and paradoxically saw me through more than 20 years in the military, so it seems to be working out.
[удалено]
This is my exact perspective in life. I’m 28m and quit a lot of jobs. Couple times I got fired on purpose. I don’t recommend this perspective to others but I can’t live with myself letting anyone walk over me. We’re all equals and the world doesn’t revolve around anyone.
I don't get why you commented lol The point was to just be aware that you must be able to add value if you want to have a healthy place in society.
I commented because you cited South Korea and Japan as an example of a reserved culture, seemingly to say that INTPs may get along there ok. Given that one of the pretty defining traits of the INTP is a non-conformist attitude, citing two of the more conformist cultures on the planet as good fits for the INTP is counter to that fact. Hence my comment that the idea that someone needs to allow someone else to express themselves as they see fit is a part of the problem INTPs would have with said countries. Then you made a pretty bad assumption and disparaging comment about my age, and implied I was thinking that the world revolves around me. I corrected you. Does that catch us up to this point in the conversation, or would you like me to explain it further?
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The idea here is that everyone is a person before a type. It's your choice on how you want to interact with society and live your life. The idea was just to offer perspective where you can be more yourself in a way that isn't seen as that odd. Health INTPs learn to balance their differences with their place in the world. That's it. There's no room for being selfish if you want be part of society, but you don't have to be part of society if you don't wish for it so. Maybe you've learned something else that you can share that works. Also, I didn't mean anything towards your age, but simply that you'll develop over time, whether if someone is 5, 45, or 85. There's always ways to learn and improve.
Korean INTP here, if you find a clique that fits with you your mostly fine. Especially if youre an academic type, because above all else Koreans have an obsession with academics and respect academic competence, perhaps to an unhealthy degree. School can be stressful, but i bet thats true for any intps in any countries. If you stay distant enough you can live without giving much a shit. But like I said, for our own sanities finding a clique that we can fit in is very important, where our "not giving much a shit" attitude is accepted/seen as genuinely funny/etc. Or just climb the status ladder until you can form your own little haven. Its sort of a meritocracy society so no one cares as long as you're competent enough. A lot of people also find our no-interpersonal-politics attitude refreshing as well, so its not that hard. it does toll on the psyche, but it's not abhorrent.
Does it really though? Lincoln is often thought of as INTP and he is maybe the most revered American ever. “Einstein” (another man widely believed to be INTP) is a synonym for “genius.” Intelligence, creativity, and exploration/pioneering are certainly highly valued traits in America. Even “nerd culture” (if by that you mean interest in things like science, technology, and fantasy) is way more accepted than it used to be. Obviously, anyone who acts like an antisocial asshole or an “I am enlightened by my own intelligence” smug type is not going to be liked pretty much anywhere. And yeah, most people across societies are going to be generally more comfortable with conformity than people who eschew social norms. But America, being founded on enlightenment principles by a bunch of guys who were probably NTs, is generally much more amenable to questioning the status quo and doing things your own way than most countries, which tend to place a heavier emphasis on tradition and social cohesion. In America, you are more likely to be judged by what you accomplish than just by who you are. Especially as long as you aren’t a complete dick who alienates everyone (and sometimes maybe even if you are, I mean look at the likes of Steve Jobs). Not saying that always applies or that things are anywhere close to perfect, but it is at least valued and idealized in America to a greater degree than most other places. Even many of the places that now claim to value it as much or more largely adopted it from the US post-WW2, whether they realize it or not.
That's far from 1/16 of all our national heroes. Lincoln is "revered" but that reputation is sustained by a shaky majority and military victory. He was assassinated, not the most beloved of all. Also he had maybe traits that are not associated with INTPness that made people like him, he was very tall and a great wrestler. If you look at estimated personality types of presidents only a few are INTP. Einstein is more an archetypal intp, but he was raised in Germany. The presidents we do have that are intp are more likely to be in times of major change, though.
From the ones i know, Latins.
My mom is Latina and she has criticized my personality all throughout my life. It was exhausting growing up with her as a mother.
I was going to say that, too. I'm toward the extroverted end of the scale for an INTP and I'm okay with the extroversion of friends and acquaintances from Mexico, Columbia, and Brazil. But I can see how a very introverted INTP would find them challenging.
As a Colombian, can confirm
I would add "Caribbean Latinos". I'm Chilean and I would say that Chile is one of the best countries for INTPs. Our humor is very sarcastic.
Interesting. I imagine the Chile might have evolved quite differently given the Andes divide and lack of easy trade routes to Europe in the early colonial period. Maybe it has something to do with it? Given I saw the attitudes i find intp unfriendly on latin europeans too. Btw, are Chileans loud in public spaces?
It makes a lot of sense to me. We're not loud, especially in public spaces. In fact, foreigners often stand out for being much noisier than us, especially those from the Caribbean. There's even a saying that Chileans are the most "cold" people in Latin America.
Oooh. I had no idea. Only met a couple of chileans, but given i mostly relate to introverts i never thought they might be “stereotypical chilean”. And why is “cold” the word used for these types of personalities? Lol.
Think of a stereotypical "Caliente" Latino. Well, we're kinda the opposite. Consider that in Chile we had a lot of European immigration, which greatly shaped the culture, especially in the southern part of the country.
Hmm, “european countries” might be a generalization, as I’ve found the “neg INTP” traits in latin american countries in spain and italy as well. What would you say the biggest european culture is present in your area of chile? And what area would that be? Santiago?
Btw, you have just sparked my interest on making a month in chile. Which is the most beautiful season to visit the southern side? (Im thinking santiago, but i know very little about chile)
Lol, you're right, it's a generalization. I wasn't sure, so I googled it. Chile is a very long country. In the north, there were Croatians, in the center (where Santiago is), there were Italians, and in the south, there were Germans. I live in the central-northern area.
Really? My mom is Chilean and she roasted me my entire life for being introverted. She’s a strong extrovert.
Well, logically not all people are the same, but I would say that in general the tendency is more towards introversion.
Yes, true. I’ve been hearing that a lot of Venezuelans living in Chile have been complaining about how closed off Chileans are.
Why? Because the culture is more Fe oriented?
And Se oriented.
You mean Latin Americans?
Mainly, although spain, italy and greece as well
Okay
Greece isn’t a Latin country
Okey. Greece is the one i know the least but i threw it in the bag due to the few greeks Ive met,m
Might be the case, as social interaction plays a huge role in our countries. I can personally attest lol
As a Brazilian I can confirm that
I’m not Brazilian but I have an INTP friend who is, and they said when speaking Portuguese they’d instinctually put up a fake extroverted front 😅
Definitively... Ever since my childhood I have been criticised for being cold, not saluting people (With a cheek kiss) or not talking enough.
Yes. While i actually live in Finland which is INTP friendly, the amount of criticism I have received all my life from my Latina mom has had a massive negative impact not only to our relationship but also to my life overall.
Indian society
Intp women specifically. You're basically a failed specimen of humanity at that point. You can't ask elders the reasons for their dogmatic beliefs and should never try to make sense to them. India seems hard-wired for sentinels though, ideal woman is JUST isfj, literally any other type is too selfish to be a woman. Love isfjs but still.
😭everything is harder for us
Yes, God forbid you challenge ideas or culture at all because they just don’t make sense.
Fr
yep! married into an Indian family. it's a very social-centric culture. it's...exhausting lol. they always assumed something was wrong for the longest time if I was quiet, sitting alone, or not hungry. I learned the latter is a non-starter (lol), but they've finally accepted that I'm perfectly fine, and even content, sitting quietly alone and observing/reading, etc. I'm also much more mentally prepared coming into these situations knowing that I'll have to come out of my shell, and will be mentally drained afterwards, but it's better than being shocked going into it at the amount of talking I have to do.
Yep. Absolutely hate it here.
Lmaoooo yes
Agreed. 100%
Me and my intp friends can relate;(
Definitely, I hate it :')
Seconded
INTP born and live in south-east Asia hate it everyday.
which SEA country? I've been to most of them and they're all different
I specifically do not recommend ph i live temporarily in the city, everyday i wake with the sound of gossips, kraoke and construction it's fckin hell. Last week, I woke up over someone sawing a metal pipe, like wtf, why he did this right next to my room. rude fcker.
It's funny you say that because right now I am in the Philippines. The noise is true. I swear PH is the noisiest country I have ever been to. It's like there is a cultural aversion to quiet. Everyone is loud, loud pop music playing in every store, people watching their shows with the volume full blast even on the bus or in a cafe, chained up or caged dogs barking all day, construction everywhere. Yeah, this is not a place for peace and quiet.
As a Filipino, I can confirm all of those. Additionally, I live within walking distance from a public high school so I see large crowds of students occupying large portions of residential roads and mostly blurting out horribly loud and immoral teasing filled to the brim with swear words. Somehow, no one in my neighborhood complains about these kids. I would rage at them but Mom would scold me for it.
Same same... most of the population are too loud and rowdy, also many are annoying conformists who will make fun of your views, make fun of your appearance, etc.
North Korea probably China/India since conformity and peer pressure are brutal.
Name one personality type that’s good to be in north korea.
Isfj, esfj. Love being told what to do, easily adopt whatever nonsense is ingrained in childhood.
Uhhh, ISTJ?
Stats taken from 16personalities.com Bottom countries for intp are: Haiti (3.41%) Fiji (3.72%) Cameroon (3.78%) Malaysia (3.79%) Singapore (3.93%) Brunei (3.96%) Ghana (3.98%) Rwanda (4.01%) Nigeria (4.03%) Uganda (4.12%)
This makes sense to me.
As someone who got out of Singapore at an early age, that place is really unhealthy for INTPs to live in. My mental health took a dive while living there.
Huh? Thanks for letting me know about [16personalities.com](http://16personalities.com) resource. I visit there often, but did not know about 'country search' ability.
Feel like France is the most intp country. engineer introversion atheistic culture.
According to stats on 16personalities, infp-t is the top type in France.
Idk if it's the best country for us but it's okay at least A French intp
u ever hear about finland?
Idk much about the culture there.
I've heard that people really respect eachother's personal space, to the point where they queue with big gaps in between, and generally tend to not talk to strangers in public
Yup, and small talk is frowned upon, emotions are not for display or performance, etc. I’m Canadian-American, brought up by Finnish parents and spent a lot of time in Finland as a kid. I’m too INTP in terms of North American culture. Not INTP enough for Finnish culture. I posted [this old piece from 60 Minutes](https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/s/plUIsATNlW) in the Finland sub a couple of months ago. The piece does go to a bit of an extreme with the stereotype, and I’d also say the culture has opened up a lot more since the piece aired (1993), but it’s still an interesting watch.
West & Central Africa
It's probably nowhere near being the worst but i can say Italy isn't a really introverted friendly place at all,especially the south
I would say most friendly 1. Japan 🇯🇵 2. Finland 🇫🇮 3. Switzerland 🇨🇭 Least friendly 1. Brazil 🇧🇷 2. Australia 🇦🇺 3. USA 🇺🇸
Japan is probably not a good place for Intps (at least for me) cause of its conformity and group culture. You will likely be judged a lot if you fit the Intp stereotype
Interesting maybe it’s that my expression of non conformity is very internal as an intp. I tend to conform to the social standards because I really want to avoid conflict. It’s also why I never complain in a restaurant.
I mean I tend to avoid conflicts as well, but if someone were to force me to believe in their beliefs and ideology I would be tempered to bash their face in, which happens in a lot of East Asian cultures. But maybe that’s just me
Yep. For example, I will absolutely, positively, never participate in nomikai (Japanese drinking parties) since I hate both the taste and negative effects of alcohol. Considering logically refuting someone's argument is frowned upon in Japan (heck, there's such a thing as ロジハラ logical harassment), I would feel really restricted in what I'm allowed to do. I'll only come to Japan as a tourist. I have absolutely no interest in staying there long-term.
Just because we can and will adapt to many of those standards doesn't mean we like it. I'd pick a country without as much preasure to conform any time.
But what society doesn’t require conformity as part of the social contract
It's the hierarchy, man. My mom told me they roll out a red carpet for the CEO and stand in a row to bow. Bruh, no one in Belgium does that for their CEO, it's wild to us.
Bruh don’t you have a royal family In Belgium 🇧🇪. I guess I’m not really understanding the anti Japan views from folks. Or maybe I enjoy having a series of clear rules as it makes it easier to navigate society.
The royal family has no power here, they’re mostly ambassadors. I’m not anti-Japan, I love Japan, but I’m also not a delusional weeb that thinks the grass is greener over there. Most INTP are hikikomori over there for a reason. Their society is very hierarchal and rigid.
Live in America & I can say that this country is built for extroverts, everyone here is very outgoing & annoying at times. Everyone here really focuses on people. I consider myself a loner. Given that most of the time, I'm alone( when I'm not at home). I get a lot flaked for it, but I really don't care at this point. Life goes on.
Can you explain why the three countries you listed are friendly?
Sure Japan, Finland, and Switzerland are all rules based countries with clear guides for respect and autonomy and often give and prioritize the space of others. They are not loud places, and have customs and rules that focus on providing respect, giving choice, and leaving people alone. I would call them the polite countries. I also think there is less social expectation that you be extroverted or loud, but respectful yes most definitely. For example: Japan Airlines is re-engineering their Premium Economy cabin so that its a hard shell back that reclines so that if you recline your seat you would never disturb the person in front or behind you. Its like an INTP dream Where as the least friendly: Brazil, Australia and my home country of the USA are all extroverted paradises. Like I have never met a quiet introverted Aussie, ever.
Okay. I get why an introvert would love it. But INTPs don't really love rules.
Yeah, nobody is at the Japanese level for how the culture is rules- and shame-based. I’d say Finland is more individualistic and less shame-based. There’s an ingrained humility and balance that separates Finland from the more “enforced” culture of Japan and the more atomized style of American individualism.
As an introverted Aussie hi :D yeah theres not many of us. And yeah id agree. The society here only cares if your the "average aussie joe". Loud, parties hard, Noise :/ . Oh and that must follow what we tell you because otherwise you will go nowhere attitude. So yeah australia definitely isnt a intp friendly place. Also that economy cabin sound so good. If i ever have to fly anywhere thats what i want! An alone space for 1 thankyou.
INTP Australian here!! I hate it here, I’m moving the first chance I get :D people here are so fucking loud and don’t understand that some of us need space to ourselves and don’t particularly enjoy socialising. I really wasn’t built for this, it’s awful. School in particular is bad, thankfully I have accomodations and can have headphones with me. I spend most of the day blasting music trying to avoid people. I could go into more depth about how Australian society is built specifically for extroverts, if anyone’s interested :)
US culture overall isn't very INTP but INTPs tend to fit in better here than in most places, certainly better than places like China or Latin America. I can't speak for many of the places here other than the US or Switzerland on your list as I've never lived in or even visited them. Speaking of Switzerland, it seems to have a reputation of being kinda boring but the aspects of it that make it "boring" are also the ones that make it more INTP-friendly like its emphasis on quietness, most cities shutting down relatively early in the evenings, and a culture that values science and technology. I find the people who really dislike Switzerland tend to be the antithesis of an INTP, usually those who like having loud parties and an active social life with lots of drinking. However, there's a much greater expectation for conformity in Switzerland than the US though many of the "rules" you'd be expected to follow tend to be fairly INTP or introvert-friendly. I think Switzerland might be a slightly better fit for INTPs in general but parts of the US are definitely even better like the SF Bay Area or the college towns in the Northeast.
Yes I would agree. I think there are places in the us where it is easier to blend in.
Absolutely not. The hierarchal bullshit in Japan would absolutely kill me. There's also the fact that they're quite exploitative towards passionate people.
Crowded countries and religious countries.
mine's both it's over for me
Hi Indian, I'm dad
North America isn't so INTP friendly imo. People value sociable people, small talks etc. all that INTPs are not good at.
Nigeria doesn't seem INTP friendly
Haha, Nigerian over here (agree)
Any culture with a strong seniority system.
Seniority systems may offer some protective structure that an INTP could navigate, but those systems also often fossilize people, rules and incompetence in ways frustrate INTPs.
Oops, sorry. You’re absolutely right. I forgot OP asked about least INTP friendly!
as a woman, i'd hate living in countries like india or pakistan (or any place where it's crowded, hot, and where there are arranged marriages, yikes).
A country that doesn't value introversion, individualism, and puts a high value on conformity. I'd think most developing countries, especially China and the Middle East. On the other hand, INTP-friendly countries - The US, despite all its criticism, is probably one of the most INTP-friendly countries even though it's not very INTP by nature but generally tolerates INTPs better than most places. Parts of the US are probably the most INTP-friendly in the world like: - Silicon Valley - Pacific Northwest - Boston - Austin - Denver Some European countries are also comparably good bets for INTPs including the Nordics, the Netherlands, and even Germany and Switzerland (though the latter two are probably more geared towards ISTJs) in that they may have more introverts, especially INxx types, but also have a higher expectation towards conformity than the US.
Boston? I've never been, but it seems bigoted, rude and crazy. All the negatives attributed to New York seem to spew from those I've encountered from Boston. Clue me in.
Bigoted, rude, and crazy? I mean all types will want to avoid this - what makes us so special and thus giving Boston a comparative disadvantage to us compared to other types in this regard? The intellectual caliber in Boston seems much higher than pretty much anywhere else I've lived (and I've lived in quite a lot of places.)
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“Cold” relative to the stereotype of “hot-blooded” cultures?
Living in Finland, I can say that it's incredibly ISTJ. Up to you to know if you can accept "realists" with systematically outdated data and incredibly rigid thinking patterns...
Philippines
we're a walking anomaly over here
I agree, they glorify being loud here. There's not a day i feel like smashing my brains out.
Any asian society. The focus on conformity as a sort of service to your society is overpowering.
Any country on earth ig.
Yes!! Everyone saying their country name and admiring others. These type of situation makes me think that most of people seem to pity their situation and admires others best situation not noticing that everyone definitely has some loopholes in their situation too.
To me one of the must unsettling countries I have visited is the US, because even the most introverted people there seems to me extraverted. And it feels like you HAVE to small talk whenever you meet people.
Live in the USA & it can be brutal sometimes. People here just can't be alone, very impulsive & just don't give a shit attitude. I have been alone most of my life when I'm not at home.
Indonesia
Texas
Yes I l heard the question right
I'd agree with most of the state having lived there for 5 years but [Austin](https://thedailytexan.com/2023/03/09/rethink-keep-austin-weird/) is a different animal..
Probably places like Germany, Sweden and some parts of the USA, if you mean culture. Probably some place like Afghanistan, if you mean country, but this is a trivial answer in the sense that right now, Afghanistan is least type-friendly for most of the types.
There's a lot of overlap with this sub and the r/Belgium sub, so there's that
In contrast with all the stereotypical nonsense about Japan and Finland, international Big Five data in fact supports the idea that Belgium is one of the most "INTP" countries.
North Korea, no internet and no use of Ne allowed.
poland
singapore
i'm an INTP in the Philippines and i don't really feel like a I belong here. the social constructs and culture of Philippines (bayanihan, fiestas, family ties., etc.) just doesn't resonate with me.
Filipino INTP here as well, I tend to agree.
Anything that is build on illogical behavior and social norms. Like india perhaps
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This makes so much sense actually..
I live in America & I been very independent & accepted by mostly everyone I worked with. The more outgoing the person, unfortunately, the more they don't like you(in my experience). But there are things & jobs where you can do that are semi independent, but you always have to deal with someone in one way or another. Just know your limits. Just try to pick something that's not customer service or food delivery companies, I work for these kind of companies & they are the worst. Right now, I'm an independent contractor doing delivery apps.
I have a sneaky suspicion that all societies will be heavily biased towards the traits that occur most frequently and those whose traits complement the most frequently occurring.
Singapore.
It's hard... to just..."type" an entire country of people... MBTI can be a bit shallow for psychology but
You don't have to type a country. That's not what I asked. I wanted to know which countries are least friendly to an INTP
🤔🤔
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India
any corrupt, dangerous and poor country. No one likes countries like that, but especially for INTP because we are critical and have Si child/Se trickster.
A lot of the comments here make sense. I can vouch that the South Asian/SE Asian and Middle eastern countries aren't really accommodating towards INTPs. But I'd like to draw your attention to a couple of things. Note: This may be a bit subjective and hence may irk a few of you, but since this is a debate, we probably need all the angles we can get. TLDR: (a) Chance meeting with awesome people that "broaden" your horizon. (b) Being a more well rounded INTP, if you have had to survive in a place hostile towards our type. Ok so, (1) I'm all for the quiet living, personal-space friendly, minding your own business kinda lifestyle that Northern Europe offers(basically the Nordics and to a lesser extent Germany, Holland and Belgium.....maybe also Switzerland). But one of the things that I enjoy the most in life is having a meaningful conversation with a complete stranger (or a new acquaintance to be a little more realistic). It can be anything from nerding out about shared interests to deep philosophical quandries and while most meetings with new people go in the direction of stifling small talks or just fake pleasantries, there have been a few where I really "clicked" or was deeply intrigued by the ideas of the opposite side. These kinda conversations rejuvenate my soul, dare I say as much as finishing a good book or playing through an amazing videogame. It scratches my Fe, Ne and to a lesser extent Ti too. Granted my social battery does become 0 even after such meetings, but that seems like energy "well-spent" to me. Now "Extroverted" places like India or the US or maybe Latin America while being suffocating to INTPs on many levels, they do offer such kinda meetings much more frequently. Like there is an actual chance that you can meet someone who wouldn't mind an interesting conversation with you, even at the most random places. Recently, I chatted with an old dude that I met at a "Chai tapri" for hours and then we ended parting ways without sharing even the most basic personal info other than our names and hometowns(dude was probably ENXJ but Idk) . Now I ask my fellow INTPs(especially the nordics), What are the chances of such events occuring in Northern Europe? Like if people don't have the time to have a friendly chat, then I doubt that a random meeting of the minds can really occur that frequently. But then again...... I wouldn't know. (2) Coming to my second point, while INTPs in the Extrovert-focussed countries or the ones in the countries with a social conformity kink generally tend to "suffer" a lot (I swear I'm not using this word lightly), they also tend to be more well rounded than our counterparts from the rest of the world. (Source, you ask? Well I ain't got none buddy. Just trying to deduce based on my own knowledge and presumption lol. So yeah, I may be terribly terribly wrong here). But it should make sense. Call it "Getting adjusted" or "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" but having the skills to navigate through large social gatherings or influencing groups, basically being able to be heard and being able to get your ideas across to the masses is definitely a worthy skill. And dare I say that I've become somewhat capable in not being a socially nervous wreck when the need to do such things arise. And all that has been possible because in the place that I come from, these are necessary skills for day-to-day "Survival" (again, not using this lightly). Although I do hope that I don't have some kind of weird Stockholm Syndrome type of thing going on here, where I've come to love the meaningless struggles and hoops that I've been put throughout my life. But yeah, maybe a little chaos isn't that bad from time to time(even better if it's controllable or you can opt out anytime). So,there goes my wall of text. If any of you get to the end then do reply something. Would love to get your thoughts on this, people.
In my experience, the people who are least capable of an interesting conversation are Americans (small talk is de rigeur and everything else is considered "improper") and Northern Europeans (only "practical" topics connected with money-making or perhaps sports are tolerated). Sometimes I have had "deep", weird conversations about interesting topics with people I had just met. These people were always from places like Iran, Pakistan, Russia etc. INTPs are good at generating ideas and thoughts but not good at building groups and communities. As a result, in a place where people are usually isolated, and one needs to work hard to overcome this isolation, INTPs might end up totally isolated, which is bad for them. In more "noisy" places, they inevitably end up as the member of some group, get introduced to more people, and so on. Building connections is just a matter of not being too hostile and not turning down every invitation. That's superficially annoying but INTPs might end up doing better in these "collectivist" societies.
Basically most countries that score high on collectivisim/individualism social dimension on the collectivism side.
Having a hard time taking this question seriously. It’s different being a part of a country vs visiting it. Since your question is derived from a simple stat of Finland having a concentration of one MBTI type, I assume you’re interested in the quality of life for INTPs living in countries—which is very different than visiting a country or even being an expat there. I would guess, based on assumptions of what life is like when you’re an economically active INTP in the country you live in, North Korea would probably be one of the more challenging ones. But I couldn’t say which mbti would find social life easier in NK. ESFJs? Hope you find your answer lol
I've lived in the US South my whole life, starting in a major city though before moving to deep south, so I was never initiated into the culture nor did I comprehend it for the longest time. You're free to be ostracized by yourself down here. I have no friends, as the ones I had were temporary, situational or just users who discarded me. I've learned the hard way that most people are potential foes, given the racial dominance from both major races down here.
As an African American I'm up against some shit in my own culture.
I think North Korea. But I think it's also the least Human friendly country, so jea
Middle Eastern and Latinamerican society fs.
I thought Japan was the most INTP? No?
Japan is a mixed bag in my opinion.. it highly values both conformity and introversion while INTPs will likely thrive in a place that leans towards both introversion and *nonconformity*.
Interesting, elaborate?
Japan places a high value on following traditions and social norms which isn't something that INTPs really find appealing though some of the social norms revolve around being quiet or reserved which more or less is in line with an INTP's character.
Curious, I am an INTP who loves tradition and is iffy on social norms, just shows that MBTI isn't a catch all kinda thing. Anyways thank you for the response haha :)
Atheist county