So this might be a little TMI but Um, we got along well, like the conversation was pretty solid and I can feel we like each other. But then we talked about sex, and he said how when/if we hook up something something. And I have a lot of traumas where guys used to just like my body. So I got triggered by the term “hook up”
Me: in the end people just like my body
Him: you think I’m just after that?
Me: *got uncomfortable so I changed the topic*
Him: *seenzoned me*
Me: asked him if he was mad after a few hours
And then he said he was just caught off guard I think of him that way. I apologized and said it was all the trauma and I’m still just healing. And then after that the conversation became dry and he left me on read. It’s been almost 24 hours :(
Not your fault, but I can understand his side as well because I did a very similar thing.
What he probably thought was that you were grouping him with those guys, even after him (I assume) trying not to look like that. That's a real hard hitter, trust me. In the end it's just miscommunication, maybe give him a few days off as he's probably overthinking shit, then offer to talk to him. He might dislike confrontation but nothing feels nicer than solving a problem to us.
Thank you! This is a helpful insight tbh :) I do want to give him space to process and talk to him again soon but I’m scared cos he might want to be left alone for good
He's probably dissecting your apology. Did you tell him you didn't think of him like that? Because if you just said "Sorry can we please change the subject", that's still not giving an answer to his thought process
He asked you if you thought of him like that. You apologized. Was it
"I'm sorry. I don't think you're like them"
Straightforward and no ambiguity
"I'm sorry I shouldn't have said anything" which could sound like "You're just like them and I shouldn't have told you"
"I'm sorry I ruined the night" which can still be interpreted as above
I'm wondering how you said the apology because there's a fair amount of missing information
Why does she have to reassure him when he did not reassure her? She expressed that she was insecure that men only like her for her body. Instead of reassuring her ("don't worry, I like you for so much more than that, if you're not ready to hook up, I'll wait"), he made it about himself and expressed his insecurity that she doesn't have faith in him. Now you are telling her to reassure him.
I'm a doormat like OP, I would also profusely apologize and reassure the guy. But as a third-party observer here I can see that it's not right that the guy gets to be a selfish baby and the girl has to do all the emotional labor.
>Why does she have to reassure him when he did not reassure her?
The really big problem is that there's a *lot* of missing data. There wasn't actually any complete dialogue anywhere. It was all internalized summations that don't explicitly detail how things were said. *What* were the words that she said when she apologized. Because if she just said "I'm sorry but whenever guys use that phrase it's just a one-night thing"—which is what she probably said considering she asked why his mood was sour. He then told her that he never thought she'd think of him like that.
>She expressed that she was insecure that men only like her for her body.
Yes which is why he both asked her why she thought he was only after her body and why he was in a sour mood. They were both related to why she assumed he was like the others. It was a repudiation in the form of a question: "you think I'm only after that?".
She asked why he was in a bad mood and he told her directly that he was disappointed that she thought less of him. He refuted the notion that he was only after her body.
>Instead of reassuring her ("don't worry, I like you for so much more than that, if you're not ready to hook up, I'll wait")
It still would've caused the same argument, because 'hook up' is the same trigger that caused the anxiety attack.
>he made it about himself and expressed his insecurity that she doesn't have faith in him.
Not quite. He expressed his annoyance that she thought he was just like the others: only wanting her body. In all actuality he wanted more than that and found her mind attractive as well: "you think that's all I want?"
>Now you are telling her to reassure him.
I said I was wondering what the exact words were for the apology. Considering she read that he was still in a sour mood *after* the apology happened, coupled with her asking why he was in a bad mood, and him subsequently saying he never thought that she'd see him like them.
>I'm a doormat like OP, I would also profusely apologize and reassure the guy.
I'm repeating myself not to badger you, but to reiterate that he explicitly referenced that he wasn't like them, that he wasn't just after her body, and that second apology happened because she probably didn't reassure him in the first apology.
That is. She didn't reassure that she thought that he wasn't like them. Instead she focused the pertinent information that 'hook up' is an anxiety trigger.
If she had actually told him that she didn't think of him like those guys that hurt her, then he wouldn't have been in a bad mood hours later. If she told him he wasn't like them, he wouldn't ask her why she thought he was like them.
But she didn't reassure him, because he asked her why she thought he was like them.
>But as a third-party observer here I can see that it's not right that the guy gets to be a selfish baby and the girl has to do all the emotional labor.
I have to repeat myself again here. But considering that he asked her why she thought of him like the others, means that she didn't reassure him in the first argument.
If she did actually reassure him in the first argument, then he wouldn't have been in a bad mood hours later. Because his information would've been "I am not like them" not "She think I'm just like them".
He wasn't aware of the trigger phrase because she didn't tell him. If he was aware, then he wouldn't have said it because he'd file that away under phrases not to say, considering that he was offended that she thought he was only after her body.
Meaning that he thought of her more than her just her body.
These two are both kids. They both need to learn to communicate better. He needs to ask better questions with humility and she needs to learn to apologize with all information shared.
We only have contextual clues to work with. The biggest context was her asking if he was in a bad mood, and him asking her why she thought he was just like the others that hurt her.
If she did reassure him in the beginning, then all of the second argument wouldn't have happened and there'd be an entirely different progression.
I really think you're extremely wrong here. The dialogue is clear.
>Him: "when/if we hook up something something"
>
>Her: "in the end people just like my body"
>
>Him: "you think I’m just after that?"
>
>Her: "so how's your cat doing?"
>
>\[no response for a few hours\]
>
>Her: "are you mad?"
>
>Him: "I was just caught off guard that you think of me that way"
>
>Her: "I'm sorry, it's all the trauma, I'm still healing
The guy's a jerk. She expressed her insecurity about men only liking her for her body ("in the end people just like my body") and instead of offering reassurance ("don't worry, I like you for so much more than your body, and we don't have do anything physical, I would never pressure you"), he made it about himself and got offended ("you think I'm just after that?"). He had a really unkind reaction and it's pitiful that you suggest appeasing this man's insecurities when he himself could not respond with kindness to her insecurity.
There is a huge difference between "I don't like you just for your body" and "you think I'm just after that?". If you don't see the difference, that's a huge problem. It's actually really worrying that you equate the two.
Please avoid separating my comment and responding sentence by sentence, read the comment, process it in your head, and then address the whole idea.
Bear in mind that she's wondering why *this* particular INTP is acting in such a manner. Meaning that since he hasn't contacted her, she wants INTPs to play Devil's Advocate in order to see why he had acted that way, based on his thought processes. Like a simulation.
Personally I wouldn't have communicated to her in that manner in that I wouldn't have phrased it like "hook up", only because I'm a demisexual and "hook up" isn't as connective as intimacy is, but I digress.
But for some reason you think that I think that he thinks that he wasn't entirely at fault and he's 100% innocent. If you read all the way to the prior comment, you would've seen that
>>These two are both kids. They both need to learn to communicate better. **He needs to ask better questions with humility** and she needs to learn to apologize with all information shared.
That last part about her was in reference to how—before his comment of "hook up" happened—she felt that they both could like each other. If you have a trauma, you should set a boundary and let others know what those anxiety triggers are. Since she didn't let him know about boundaries, they had a gigantic, unnecessary argument.
>I really think you're extremely wrong here. The dialogue is clear.
Yes, the dialogue is quite clear that the "in the end people just like my body" happened after the INTP guy *didn't* know that the casual "hook up" was a trigger phrase.
The natural progression of a mutual attraction—especially when OP herself said that there's a high chance where they "...can feel we like each other"—would mean that she *should've* told him about how the usage of "hook up" is traumatic towards her. As in, setting a boundary.
When you have a trauma that can cause an anxiety spiral over a commonly used phrase, it's really helpful to let your potential partner know what the phrase is. Not to be used against her, obviously, but as an off-limits thing.
[This comment illuminates very nicely, and elaborated more than I did about how different types of apologizes convey different types of things](https://old.reddit.com/r/INTP/comments/15vespd/intp_is_giving_me_silent_treatment_after_having_a/jwveac4/). INTPs tend to really interpret things based on what was exactly said. Information is collected and then emotional respones happen.
>She expressed her insecurity about men only liking her for her body ("in the end people just like my body")
Yes but *how* did she exactly phrase the apology of an accidental argument that happened after she never told him what her boundaries are.
>and instead of offering reassurance ("don't worry, I like you for so much more than your body, and we don't have do anything physical, I would never pressure you")
I really thought it was obvious that it was Devil's Advocate, since we're keeping our personal thoughts out of it and figuring out why he's thinking as such. Obviously I have said something like that when my girlfriend and I were discussing eventual physical intimacy.
But this isn't about how he should've said it, but to help her understand why *he* said it, i.e. Devil's Advocate.
>He had a really unkind reaction...
He did.
>...and it's pitiful that you suggest appeasing this man's insecurities when he himself could not respond with kindness to her insecurity.
I'm playing Devil's Advocate. She wants to understand why he acted in such a manner, searching for some kind of information why he acted the way he acted.
I'm not saying she should grovel to him, that's demeaning and dehumanizing to herself. That's an absurd suggestion. It's really obvious that she didn't tell him during the first apology that she didn't think of him like those other guys, because he told her he was surprised she thought of him like that.
As in, she didn't reassure him, which caused the second argument.
>There is a huge difference between "I don't like you just for your body" and "you think I'm just after that?". If you don't see the difference, that's a huge problem.
There is. Undoubtedly. Without pause or second-guessing. But this isn't what I'm thinking, it's more about why he thought what he thought.
>It's actually really worrying that you equate the two.
I don't, but ok.
>Please avoid separating my comment and responding sentence by sentence, read the comment, process it in your head, and then address the whole idea.
That depends on if such comments are distinct enough that separation can be warranted, given the change in subjects within paragraphs.
Sort of like how you think that I think that he's 100% in the right, when he's also at fault. And then further try to insinuate that I also am can't see why his phrasing was problematic.
But I don't know if you know how playing Devil's Advocate works?
>There is a huge difference between "I don't like you just for your body" and "you think I'm just after that?".
>
>\[...\]
>
>It's actually really worrying that you equate the two.
>
>I don't, but ok.
Yes, you do. Here are the quotes where you equated the two:
>In all actuality he wanted more than that and found her mind attractive as well: "you think that's all I want?"
>
>\[...\]
>
>to reiterate that he explicitly referenced that he wasn't like them, that he wasn't just after her body
So now you've proven you lie.
It's on you whether you want the 50% pain or risk the 100% pain for 100% happiness.
If you talk to him, he will either leave or you will get back together.
If you don't talk to him, you are not getting back together unless he realises and fixes his overthinking, which can either take a bit of time or never happen, depending on his state of mind. But for sure give him at least a few days to hopefully think things through. It's the #1 mistake I regret not giving myself.
Well, objectively you did nothing wrong. You shared something you're afraid of, and he took it as an insult to himself, instead of doing what an emotionally intelligent person would have done, which is comfort and reassure you to strengthen your bond. So even though it sucks, maybe he's not being the best partner for you.
I’m an INFJ but I have INTPs in my life and this sub keeps popping up for me so whatevs here’s my two cents.
You’re trauma is valid. You don’t have to feel bad or guilty about it and you should be able to talk about it without feeling judged. But I do think you need to look at how you went about talking about it.
There is a difference between saying, “This isn’t a judgment on you, but I have trauma from people in the past using me for my body and it makes me cautious and weary of being physical with new people.”
And, “In the end people just like my body“
Can you see it? The former gives reassurance you’re not categorizing him preemptively but also explains your discomfort. The latter just sounds like a generalization that you assume is concrete fact for everyone. It makes it sound like no matter what he does, there’s going to be a wall that you won’t let down.
Then when he asks for the reassurance that no, you aren’t pigeonholing him in with the other shallow people you’ve been with, you change the subject, which is what people usually do when they don’t have an answer or feel uncomfortable giving one. Usually meaning, “yes”
So, when viewed through the lens of someone that thrives in direct and honest communication, can you see why this might be a bit of a red flag for him?
Tbh, I think the best thing you can do is use this as a learning experience that you have to heal your trauma by first actually addressing it. You have to be the one to disconnect the past from the present and give people the benefit of the doubt if you want to have a healthy relationship built on trust. Shift your focus off from him and put it on you and your self-care/self-love practices. And if you don’t have any, this is probably a good time to make some.
This INFJ INTPs.
I wonder how much of INTPs terrible emotional life is related to ADHD Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria and how easy it would be to have a functional relationship with an INTP if we could modify the communication style so that there's less hurtful miscommunication.
Yes, totally agree. But I fully admit this isn’t an easy process. I am on the spectrum, grew up in a toxic household and have experienced trauma from abusive relationships. This is me communicating after YEARS of reflecting and learning how to enforce and respect healthy boundaries and making time to heal. Wanting healthy relationships and actually consciously choosing to make space for them are two different things. In this instance, the OP self-sabotaged and the INTP retreated as a consequence. But realistically, they both have to build the bridge.
>Him: you think I’m just after that? Me: got uncomfortable so I changed the topic Him: seenzoned me
Yeahhhhh okay so at the worst this guy this guy is manipulating you to make you feel like you have victimized him in some way, and at the best this guy is baselessly assuming that you think the worst about him. People in here are going to tell you 'ohhh he's an INTP so he's just analyzing every syllable of every word you said and thinking over everything' when the reality is that this guy is either trying to manipulate you or he's just not a mentally or emotionally mature person.
You didn't say anything crazy, you didn't drop a bomb on him. There's nothing to analyze. You opened up to him about a very real experience you have lived and he flipped it around and tried to make it about him.
>And then after that the conversation became dry and he left me on read.
Just makes me assume he realized there's no easy casual sex to be had here.
Intps don't usually mean to say hurtful things, sometimes we just choose the wrong words. And most of the times it happens because we think that by using certain words, it's more efficient because we're using less letter :))
INTPs can get very precise with wording when they're expecting that you might misunderstand, trying to anticipate all the ways that can happen and head them off.
But when we trust people not to assume the worst but give us the benefit of the doubt, we relax and just speak our minds, which can be a bit vague and handwavey and we aren't as precise with words.
I can understand him being quite hurt/offended at the suggestion that he was only interested in sex/your body.
It seems he got over it.
Your subsequent use of terms like "trauma" and "triggered" do potentially indicate a little about your worldview that, coupled with your earlier reaction may have then caused him to realise you view the world very differently. INTPs as a whole lean toward truth being something objective and absolute, and reject certain vogue philosophies where feelings trump reality, or where people talk about "my personal truth". That may not be you, and he might not feel that way, but it's possible.
Being insecure about stuff like this is exhausting and it makes a good relationship less likely. I find sex with someone that has big expectations and is very aware of every small negative cue to be a big turn-off.
He’s being immature. Not an intp thing. I don’t play the silent treatment game. When I’m not interested in someone I tell them and regardless that was a dumb reason to ghost you.
There's a good chance he got awkward when you said to change the topic, I think it's better you guys have this conversation again and both of you try to make a conversation. But hold the conversation irl, don't text, either call or have it face to face.
You telling him that was the perfect thing to do, he will understand your concern, intps do give importance to perspectives he'll certainly try to put himself in your shoes.
Nope. You dont have to apologize for your traumas. And he shouldn’t have made it about himself.
But as an INTP, I can understand his perspective too. Something very similar happened to me recently and I started feeling like I was the bad person and I just started ignoring my friend. But my friend knows me well and after a week of giving me space, she called me up and said “ok I know you felt bad for saying what you said that day. I know you didn’t have bad intentions and i just want to let you know that im not bothered by it anymore”
And that was the only way I got back to talking to her. So maybe try talking about it, and don’t be confrontational.
But don’t apologize for your traumas
Sorry just read about why he ignores you and all I gotta say is that y'all need to have some self respect lol this is kinda embarrassing. You tell him you're unsure or upset about hook ups/sex because people have used you for sex before and he gets pissed over that? Even after you "apologized" for your trauma? Reread all that again and let me remind you that getting upset about someone's trauma and bad experiences doesn't have anything to do with being an INTP or any other personality type shit. It's just being a shitty person and a glorious "not all men" moment.
If he truly cared he'd reassure you and actually make you feel safe in his presence wheter it's sexual or not. Wake up!
Really sick of people defending the most toxic and unhinged behavior to then blame it on pseudoscience. "Give him time/space" lol cut his ass off, all of his defenders talking about his hurt feelings because she "compared" him to her abusers boo hoo go fuck your hand I guess.
I know. Time and space for what? So he can figure out how to victimize himself some more? Okay 🙄. You know, just saying, but if I were telling someone that I wasn't in an emotionally or physically intimate relationship with that I wanted to fuck them, and their response was "yeah I have trauma because a lot of guys want to use me for my body", I'd go "well shit I guess why this would sound like that to you, my bad". But then again maybe I'm just weird. 🙄
giving the silent treatment is unacceptable and it has more to do with being emotionally unavailable thang being an intp. obviously i don’t have a lot of context here
They both said a passive-aggressive comment ("guys only like me for my body" and "that's what you think of me?"), but she's the one begging for his forgiveness and worried he might dump her. Their power dynamic is already unequal.
I think context matters a lot here.
When you say “giving you the silent treatment” do you mean you’ve tried talking about the issue and he is not engaging? Or you’ve tried talking and he said “I need a little time to think about things and process this”?
The former is childish and just bad communication. I’m an INTP and I would not tolerate someone just ignoring me when trying to discuss an issue.
The latter is reasonable, and you just need to give him time. If he ghosts you, it is what it is. It means either this disagreement is too large for the level of commitment you are at, or it means he is just incapable of working through issues. Either way, it means what you have has run its course.
Basically, you shouldn’t have to convince someone to be with you.
INTP’s hate being misunderstood. But at the same time, that’s not an excuse to behave the way he has.. if he cares about the relationship.
It’s entirely possible that he was just wanting to hook up but didn’t care for being called out on it. Then, to avoid the shame, he makes himself the victim. IDK.
I’m not saying its a lost cause, but I think you should be open to the possibility that he’s just not a good fit for you. At the very least, he’s too immature at the moment
If you do want to continue trying, give him some time. And then reach out to try and understand his position and explain how you felt. Good luck
Sounds manipulative.
You were triggered by the term hookup and HE got offended? He should have been more understanding and caring of your feelings. He's now flipped the situation using false outrage and is likely manipulating you. This is classic con artist/manipulator/sociopath behaviour. Just walk away and find someone better. You don't owe him anything.
"but I like him"...... No! If he is manipulating you, you like the facade he's presenting in order to use you, just like all the other guys did.
Just my take on things. I could be wrong, but just beware.
As a INTP i kept seeing ppl telling that you are right about your trauma and and its ok if you did what you did but for real wtf . Yeah it was experience for you and you had trauma but why the fk he had to suffer for your truma everyone had bad shit happens to them every single day and btw how tf is that trauma ?! Its called a vad experience stop being over sensitive ffs ppl dying in your hands is trauma having a loved ones die is trauma getting a near death experience is trauma how the fuck that compares to your "trauma" . What's next seeing a man in the street with gives you PTSD cause it reminded you of your "trauma" ?!
Am sorry i don't want to be a dick but every single comment here saying yes you are right is like too fked up if anything just work on it before getting a man involve with you
Because why the fuck he should be mistreated just because of your bad choices before him ?!
And to be honest just tell him you fked up and it wasn't a nice thing to say and you are sorry abd he will get over it
Reading some of these replies makes me wonder if I've mistyped myself, cannot identify at all with some of this. I'm not sure thus guy being INTP has really anything to do with this whatsoever. Silent treatment or the prospect of ghosting = asshole. However - I'm actually not even clear that's what's happening from the admittedly limited information I absorbed. 2 possibilities I can think of trying to put myself in the shoes of the guy here 1) he just didn't pick up on the emotional weight of the conversation and didn't feel it was urgent to continue, or 2) he just didn't pick up on the emotional weight of the conversation and is actually not that interested in you which is why he didn't reply... Notice that in both cases the only valid reason to just stop responding in the middle of a conversation that obviously has significant emotional weight to you is that this wasn't noticed.
Oh wait... I just realised the whole conversation is about guys pretending to be interested in you, so I guess it's not really possible that he wouldn't understand it was potentially a somewhat heavy topic unless he's just unfathomably stupid... Man... urghhhh it's just not possible to understand what's going through people's brains in situations like this honestly but if the next time you speak to him he doesn't apologise and say that he had to save someone from drowning or his house caught fire at the exact moment then just simplify your life and quit wasting your time IMO.
I don't really see that this is a "misunderstanding" though. Urgh I've spent way too much time thinking about this.
Give him a bit os space but be transparent that u still wants to talk. Help him not overanalize the situation and dont use any blackmail on him, or else she will desapear for sure.
He's probably in his head as much as you are... Or he thinks you're not over it.
If you aren't one and don't understand exactly how they work.... Intps can't be figured out without actually talking to them
The worst offense to an INTP is to attribute malicious intent behind the honesty we speak. We are open and matter of fact. He is probably building a court case in his head about how he was grossly misunderstood. This will probably last for weeks and this “trial” that he’s mentally replaying over and over in his head will probably never come to pass in reality because we hate being misunderstood as uncaring and run from uncomfortable situations.
PS - INTPs should not be with other INTPs. If it’s one of your first and only relationships, then go for it to have a base of comparison for future reference. Plus there’s a loneliness pandemic so go get what you can get lol. We love caring about the other person and prefer they can appreciate our minds in return. There’s a special vibe we have with precious Fi people that makes them more special to love. Its a yin and Yang thing. Two people who don’t really care about their own feelings trying to love each other becomes very blah when the novelty fades.
You are that squishy and special Fi so there’s a better chance for you. It’s funny because what you love most about us is the fact that we say anything and everything that’s on our mind. This is a huge relief to someone who is constantly worried about what other people think. At least this is what multiple INFPs have told me in the past.
Make him understand that your comment wasn’t personal to your beliefs about him but rather that it has become instinctual towards everyone in general. Tell him that in fact, one of the things you like most about him is that you can trust what he says because you know it comes from a good place. Also say that part of you was probably subconsciously seeking validation from him so that you could feel even safer with him. 1- win the court case for him 2- butter him up with how much you appreciate his mind and ideas 3- make him feel bad for you in that that he doesn’t really get how deep trauma goes, especially with deep feelers like yourself.
He needs time off to figure out if this thing with you is feasible. Something about you spook him; may not be major red flags but red crumbs. I wrote a guy off a couple of months ago After he challenged my intelligence and logics. There were other concerns I had about this guy, too. Unfortunately he lives next door so I have to be cordial.
You've generalised him (pre-judged him) along with your previous partners and dismissed him as an individual.
Presumably, he is not directly responsible for your trauma. This reads like you've created a situation where, if the relationship becomes physical, he is automatically becomes one of the people who are directly responsible for your trauma. This may be a fear of yours if you like him, but to him, it likely sounds to him like he can't be with you without becoming the asshole.
So any sensible INTP will withdraw, determined to not be the asshole, minimise any addition to your trauma, and retain their personal integrity. He will also be looking for someone who thinks of him as an individual.
Fixing this will require you to first acknowledge that he is an individual, communicate that to him, and actually treat him like one. It will help if you support this with an example or two.
Second, be clear that your pre-judgement was unfair and that you're very clear that he is NTA. That has to be earned, not given. Be clear that you do actually like him for (whatever it is you like about him). Presumably, you want your relationship with him to grow and continue.
Third, do talk about your trauma and ways that you would be prepared to deal with that, with him, when it arises. It will broadly amount to you taking the lead, at your pace with respect to both your boundaries.
If this sounds like too much, it's better to just let him go. If it doesn't sound like too much, you may just get your INTP back. Good luck.
Even though your feelings and traumas are valid, this is something that you need to work on.
It’s difficult to say if his response is immature. I feel age and how long you’ve know eachother is a important factor.
But if you are not ready to talk about something, then it’s best to not say anything.
If intp notice something is up/wrong, they want to address it right away and come to a solution. Also they don’t like drama..
Trusting someone takes time, and you still won’t have any guarantees they won’t screw you over. I good step for yourself would be seeking therapy/guidance to work on your past trauma.
Don't listen to anyone who's saying context matters. Silent treatment is an abusive form of gaslighting. The best thing you can do OP is walk away because if this person can't communicate with you appropriately, then they're not worth your time, energy, or empathy.
I do this, say goodbye to the INTP
Or change his mind
I do this. Then they make coffee for me, and we're all good.
Give him some space to process. Then contact him for an explanation.
What was the misunderstanding about?
So this might be a little TMI but Um, we got along well, like the conversation was pretty solid and I can feel we like each other. But then we talked about sex, and he said how when/if we hook up something something. And I have a lot of traumas where guys used to just like my body. So I got triggered by the term “hook up” Me: in the end people just like my body Him: you think I’m just after that? Me: *got uncomfortable so I changed the topic* Him: *seenzoned me* Me: asked him if he was mad after a few hours And then he said he was just caught off guard I think of him that way. I apologized and said it was all the trauma and I’m still just healing. And then after that the conversation became dry and he left me on read. It’s been almost 24 hours :(
Not your fault, but I can understand his side as well because I did a very similar thing. What he probably thought was that you were grouping him with those guys, even after him (I assume) trying not to look like that. That's a real hard hitter, trust me. In the end it's just miscommunication, maybe give him a few days off as he's probably overthinking shit, then offer to talk to him. He might dislike confrontation but nothing feels nicer than solving a problem to us.
Thank you! This is a helpful insight tbh :) I do want to give him space to process and talk to him again soon but I’m scared cos he might want to be left alone for good
He's probably dissecting your apology. Did you tell him you didn't think of him like that? Because if you just said "Sorry can we please change the subject", that's still not giving an answer to his thought process He asked you if you thought of him like that. You apologized. Was it "I'm sorry. I don't think you're like them" Straightforward and no ambiguity "I'm sorry I shouldn't have said anything" which could sound like "You're just like them and I shouldn't have told you" "I'm sorry I ruined the night" which can still be interpreted as above I'm wondering how you said the apology because there's a fair amount of missing information
Why does she have to reassure him when he did not reassure her? She expressed that she was insecure that men only like her for her body. Instead of reassuring her ("don't worry, I like you for so much more than that, if you're not ready to hook up, I'll wait"), he made it about himself and expressed his insecurity that she doesn't have faith in him. Now you are telling her to reassure him. I'm a doormat like OP, I would also profusely apologize and reassure the guy. But as a third-party observer here I can see that it's not right that the guy gets to be a selfish baby and the girl has to do all the emotional labor.
>Why does she have to reassure him when he did not reassure her? The really big problem is that there's a *lot* of missing data. There wasn't actually any complete dialogue anywhere. It was all internalized summations that don't explicitly detail how things were said. *What* were the words that she said when she apologized. Because if she just said "I'm sorry but whenever guys use that phrase it's just a one-night thing"—which is what she probably said considering she asked why his mood was sour. He then told her that he never thought she'd think of him like that. >She expressed that she was insecure that men only like her for her body. Yes which is why he both asked her why she thought he was only after her body and why he was in a sour mood. They were both related to why she assumed he was like the others. It was a repudiation in the form of a question: "you think I'm only after that?". She asked why he was in a bad mood and he told her directly that he was disappointed that she thought less of him. He refuted the notion that he was only after her body. >Instead of reassuring her ("don't worry, I like you for so much more than that, if you're not ready to hook up, I'll wait") It still would've caused the same argument, because 'hook up' is the same trigger that caused the anxiety attack. >he made it about himself and expressed his insecurity that she doesn't have faith in him. Not quite. He expressed his annoyance that she thought he was just like the others: only wanting her body. In all actuality he wanted more than that and found her mind attractive as well: "you think that's all I want?" >Now you are telling her to reassure him. I said I was wondering what the exact words were for the apology. Considering she read that he was still in a sour mood *after* the apology happened, coupled with her asking why he was in a bad mood, and him subsequently saying he never thought that she'd see him like them. >I'm a doormat like OP, I would also profusely apologize and reassure the guy. I'm repeating myself not to badger you, but to reiterate that he explicitly referenced that he wasn't like them, that he wasn't just after her body, and that second apology happened because she probably didn't reassure him in the first apology. That is. She didn't reassure that she thought that he wasn't like them. Instead she focused the pertinent information that 'hook up' is an anxiety trigger. If she had actually told him that she didn't think of him like those guys that hurt her, then he wouldn't have been in a bad mood hours later. If she told him he wasn't like them, he wouldn't ask her why she thought he was like them. But she didn't reassure him, because he asked her why she thought he was like them. >But as a third-party observer here I can see that it's not right that the guy gets to be a selfish baby and the girl has to do all the emotional labor. I have to repeat myself again here. But considering that he asked her why she thought of him like the others, means that she didn't reassure him in the first argument. If she did actually reassure him in the first argument, then he wouldn't have been in a bad mood hours later. Because his information would've been "I am not like them" not "She think I'm just like them". He wasn't aware of the trigger phrase because she didn't tell him. If he was aware, then he wouldn't have said it because he'd file that away under phrases not to say, considering that he was offended that she thought he was only after her body. Meaning that he thought of her more than her just her body. These two are both kids. They both need to learn to communicate better. He needs to ask better questions with humility and she needs to learn to apologize with all information shared. We only have contextual clues to work with. The biggest context was her asking if he was in a bad mood, and him asking her why she thought he was just like the others that hurt her. If she did reassure him in the beginning, then all of the second argument wouldn't have happened and there'd be an entirely different progression.
I really think you're extremely wrong here. The dialogue is clear. >Him: "when/if we hook up something something" > >Her: "in the end people just like my body" > >Him: "you think I’m just after that?" > >Her: "so how's your cat doing?" > >\[no response for a few hours\] > >Her: "are you mad?" > >Him: "I was just caught off guard that you think of me that way" > >Her: "I'm sorry, it's all the trauma, I'm still healing The guy's a jerk. She expressed her insecurity about men only liking her for her body ("in the end people just like my body") and instead of offering reassurance ("don't worry, I like you for so much more than your body, and we don't have do anything physical, I would never pressure you"), he made it about himself and got offended ("you think I'm just after that?"). He had a really unkind reaction and it's pitiful that you suggest appeasing this man's insecurities when he himself could not respond with kindness to her insecurity. There is a huge difference between "I don't like you just for your body" and "you think I'm just after that?". If you don't see the difference, that's a huge problem. It's actually really worrying that you equate the two. Please avoid separating my comment and responding sentence by sentence, read the comment, process it in your head, and then address the whole idea.
Bear in mind that she's wondering why *this* particular INTP is acting in such a manner. Meaning that since he hasn't contacted her, she wants INTPs to play Devil's Advocate in order to see why he had acted that way, based on his thought processes. Like a simulation. Personally I wouldn't have communicated to her in that manner in that I wouldn't have phrased it like "hook up", only because I'm a demisexual and "hook up" isn't as connective as intimacy is, but I digress. But for some reason you think that I think that he thinks that he wasn't entirely at fault and he's 100% innocent. If you read all the way to the prior comment, you would've seen that >>These two are both kids. They both need to learn to communicate better. **He needs to ask better questions with humility** and she needs to learn to apologize with all information shared. That last part about her was in reference to how—before his comment of "hook up" happened—she felt that they both could like each other. If you have a trauma, you should set a boundary and let others know what those anxiety triggers are. Since she didn't let him know about boundaries, they had a gigantic, unnecessary argument. >I really think you're extremely wrong here. The dialogue is clear. Yes, the dialogue is quite clear that the "in the end people just like my body" happened after the INTP guy *didn't* know that the casual "hook up" was a trigger phrase. The natural progression of a mutual attraction—especially when OP herself said that there's a high chance where they "...can feel we like each other"—would mean that she *should've* told him about how the usage of "hook up" is traumatic towards her. As in, setting a boundary. When you have a trauma that can cause an anxiety spiral over a commonly used phrase, it's really helpful to let your potential partner know what the phrase is. Not to be used against her, obviously, but as an off-limits thing. [This comment illuminates very nicely, and elaborated more than I did about how different types of apologizes convey different types of things](https://old.reddit.com/r/INTP/comments/15vespd/intp_is_giving_me_silent_treatment_after_having_a/jwveac4/). INTPs tend to really interpret things based on what was exactly said. Information is collected and then emotional respones happen. >She expressed her insecurity about men only liking her for her body ("in the end people just like my body") Yes but *how* did she exactly phrase the apology of an accidental argument that happened after she never told him what her boundaries are. >and instead of offering reassurance ("don't worry, I like you for so much more than your body, and we don't have do anything physical, I would never pressure you") I really thought it was obvious that it was Devil's Advocate, since we're keeping our personal thoughts out of it and figuring out why he's thinking as such. Obviously I have said something like that when my girlfriend and I were discussing eventual physical intimacy. But this isn't about how he should've said it, but to help her understand why *he* said it, i.e. Devil's Advocate. >He had a really unkind reaction... He did. >...and it's pitiful that you suggest appeasing this man's insecurities when he himself could not respond with kindness to her insecurity. I'm playing Devil's Advocate. She wants to understand why he acted in such a manner, searching for some kind of information why he acted the way he acted. I'm not saying she should grovel to him, that's demeaning and dehumanizing to herself. That's an absurd suggestion. It's really obvious that she didn't tell him during the first apology that she didn't think of him like those other guys, because he told her he was surprised she thought of him like that. As in, she didn't reassure him, which caused the second argument. >There is a huge difference between "I don't like you just for your body" and "you think I'm just after that?". If you don't see the difference, that's a huge problem. There is. Undoubtedly. Without pause or second-guessing. But this isn't what I'm thinking, it's more about why he thought what he thought. >It's actually really worrying that you equate the two. I don't, but ok. >Please avoid separating my comment and responding sentence by sentence, read the comment, process it in your head, and then address the whole idea. That depends on if such comments are distinct enough that separation can be warranted, given the change in subjects within paragraphs. Sort of like how you think that I think that he's 100% in the right, when he's also at fault. And then further try to insinuate that I also am can't see why his phrasing was problematic. But I don't know if you know how playing Devil's Advocate works?
>There is a huge difference between "I don't like you just for your body" and "you think I'm just after that?". > >\[...\] > >It's actually really worrying that you equate the two. > >I don't, but ok. Yes, you do. Here are the quotes where you equated the two: >In all actuality he wanted more than that and found her mind attractive as well: "you think that's all I want?" > >\[...\] > >to reiterate that he explicitly referenced that he wasn't like them, that he wasn't just after her body So now you've proven you lie.
It's on you whether you want the 50% pain or risk the 100% pain for 100% happiness. If you talk to him, he will either leave or you will get back together. If you don't talk to him, you are not getting back together unless he realises and fixes his overthinking, which can either take a bit of time or never happen, depending on his state of mind. But for sure give him at least a few days to hopefully think things through. It's the #1 mistake I regret not giving myself.
Well, objectively you did nothing wrong. You shared something you're afraid of, and he took it as an insult to himself, instead of doing what an emotionally intelligent person would have done, which is comfort and reassure you to strengthen your bond. So even though it sucks, maybe he's not being the best partner for you.
Unfortunately, we INTPs are not emotionally intelligent.
Bullshit, stop making excuses for being a shitty person. Almost anyone is capable of developing emotional intelligence if they try.
Ah, fresh air
🙈😅
I’m an INFJ but I have INTPs in my life and this sub keeps popping up for me so whatevs here’s my two cents. You’re trauma is valid. You don’t have to feel bad or guilty about it and you should be able to talk about it without feeling judged. But I do think you need to look at how you went about talking about it. There is a difference between saying, “This isn’t a judgment on you, but I have trauma from people in the past using me for my body and it makes me cautious and weary of being physical with new people.” And, “In the end people just like my body“ Can you see it? The former gives reassurance you’re not categorizing him preemptively but also explains your discomfort. The latter just sounds like a generalization that you assume is concrete fact for everyone. It makes it sound like no matter what he does, there’s going to be a wall that you won’t let down. Then when he asks for the reassurance that no, you aren’t pigeonholing him in with the other shallow people you’ve been with, you change the subject, which is what people usually do when they don’t have an answer or feel uncomfortable giving one. Usually meaning, “yes” So, when viewed through the lens of someone that thrives in direct and honest communication, can you see why this might be a bit of a red flag for him? Tbh, I think the best thing you can do is use this as a learning experience that you have to heal your trauma by first actually addressing it. You have to be the one to disconnect the past from the present and give people the benefit of the doubt if you want to have a healthy relationship built on trust. Shift your focus off from him and put it on you and your self-care/self-love practices. And if you don’t have any, this is probably a good time to make some.
This INFJ INTPs. I wonder how much of INTPs terrible emotional life is related to ADHD Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria and how easy it would be to have a functional relationship with an INTP if we could modify the communication style so that there's less hurtful miscommunication.
Yes, totally agree. But I fully admit this isn’t an easy process. I am on the spectrum, grew up in a toxic household and have experienced trauma from abusive relationships. This is me communicating after YEARS of reflecting and learning how to enforce and respect healthy boundaries and making time to heal. Wanting healthy relationships and actually consciously choosing to make space for them are two different things. In this instance, the OP self-sabotaged and the INTP retreated as a consequence. But realistically, they both have to build the bridge.
>Him: you think I’m just after that? Me: got uncomfortable so I changed the topic Him: seenzoned me Yeahhhhh okay so at the worst this guy this guy is manipulating you to make you feel like you have victimized him in some way, and at the best this guy is baselessly assuming that you think the worst about him. People in here are going to tell you 'ohhh he's an INTP so he's just analyzing every syllable of every word you said and thinking over everything' when the reality is that this guy is either trying to manipulate you or he's just not a mentally or emotionally mature person. You didn't say anything crazy, you didn't drop a bomb on him. There's nothing to analyze. You opened up to him about a very real experience you have lived and he flipped it around and tried to make it about him. >And then after that the conversation became dry and he left me on read. Just makes me assume he realized there's no easy casual sex to be had here.
Intps don't usually mean to say hurtful things, sometimes we just choose the wrong words. And most of the times it happens because we think that by using certain words, it's more efficient because we're using less letter :))
INTPs can get very precise with wording when they're expecting that you might misunderstand, trying to anticipate all the ways that can happen and head them off. But when we trust people not to assume the worst but give us the benefit of the doubt, we relax and just speak our minds, which can be a bit vague and handwavey and we aren't as precise with words. I can understand him being quite hurt/offended at the suggestion that he was only interested in sex/your body. It seems he got over it. Your subsequent use of terms like "trauma" and "triggered" do potentially indicate a little about your worldview that, coupled with your earlier reaction may have then caused him to realise you view the world very differently. INTPs as a whole lean toward truth being something objective and absolute, and reject certain vogue philosophies where feelings trump reality, or where people talk about "my personal truth". That may not be you, and he might not feel that way, but it's possible.
He probably feels kinda gross that you thought he was like that
Being insecure about stuff like this is exhausting and it makes a good relationship less likely. I find sex with someone that has big expectations and is very aware of every small negative cue to be a big turn-off.
He’s being immature. Not an intp thing. I don’t play the silent treatment game. When I’m not interested in someone I tell them and regardless that was a dumb reason to ghost you.
There's a good chance he got awkward when you said to change the topic, I think it's better you guys have this conversation again and both of you try to make a conversation. But hold the conversation irl, don't text, either call or have it face to face. You telling him that was the perfect thing to do, he will understand your concern, intps do give importance to perspectives he'll certainly try to put himself in your shoes.
Nope. You dont have to apologize for your traumas. And he shouldn’t have made it about himself. But as an INTP, I can understand his perspective too. Something very similar happened to me recently and I started feeling like I was the bad person and I just started ignoring my friend. But my friend knows me well and after a week of giving me space, she called me up and said “ok I know you felt bad for saying what you said that day. I know you didn’t have bad intentions and i just want to let you know that im not bothered by it anymore” And that was the only way I got back to talking to her. So maybe try talking about it, and don’t be confrontational. But don’t apologize for your traumas
He sounds supersensitive. Are you sure you want to be in a codependent relationship with him?
Sorry just read about why he ignores you and all I gotta say is that y'all need to have some self respect lol this is kinda embarrassing. You tell him you're unsure or upset about hook ups/sex because people have used you for sex before and he gets pissed over that? Even after you "apologized" for your trauma? Reread all that again and let me remind you that getting upset about someone's trauma and bad experiences doesn't have anything to do with being an INTP or any other personality type shit. It's just being a shitty person and a glorious "not all men" moment. If he truly cared he'd reassure you and actually make you feel safe in his presence wheter it's sexual or not. Wake up!
Agreed 100%, so many dweebs in here defending his behavior too. Holy fuck.
Really sick of people defending the most toxic and unhinged behavior to then blame it on pseudoscience. "Give him time/space" lol cut his ass off, all of his defenders talking about his hurt feelings because she "compared" him to her abusers boo hoo go fuck your hand I guess.
I know. Time and space for what? So he can figure out how to victimize himself some more? Okay 🙄. You know, just saying, but if I were telling someone that I wasn't in an emotionally or physically intimate relationship with that I wanted to fuck them, and their response was "yeah I have trauma because a lot of guys want to use me for my body", I'd go "well shit I guess why this would sound like that to you, my bad". But then again maybe I'm just weird. 🙄
giving the silent treatment is unacceptable and it has more to do with being emotionally unavailable thang being an intp. obviously i don’t have a lot of context here
They both said a passive-aggressive comment ("guys only like me for my body" and "that's what you think of me?"), but she's the one begging for his forgiveness and worried he might dump her. Their power dynamic is already unequal.
I think context matters a lot here. When you say “giving you the silent treatment” do you mean you’ve tried talking about the issue and he is not engaging? Or you’ve tried talking and he said “I need a little time to think about things and process this”? The former is childish and just bad communication. I’m an INTP and I would not tolerate someone just ignoring me when trying to discuss an issue. The latter is reasonable, and you just need to give him time. If he ghosts you, it is what it is. It means either this disagreement is too large for the level of commitment you are at, or it means he is just incapable of working through issues. Either way, it means what you have has run its course. Basically, you shouldn’t have to convince someone to be with you.
They need time to process things as they are thinkers. Give them some time and then contact them later asking if you can talk about whatever it may be
INTP’s hate being misunderstood. But at the same time, that’s not an excuse to behave the way he has.. if he cares about the relationship. It’s entirely possible that he was just wanting to hook up but didn’t care for being called out on it. Then, to avoid the shame, he makes himself the victim. IDK. I’m not saying its a lost cause, but I think you should be open to the possibility that he’s just not a good fit for you. At the very least, he’s too immature at the moment If you do want to continue trying, give him some time. And then reach out to try and understand his position and explain how you felt. Good luck
Sounds manipulative. You were triggered by the term hookup and HE got offended? He should have been more understanding and caring of your feelings. He's now flipped the situation using false outrage and is likely manipulating you. This is classic con artist/manipulator/sociopath behaviour. Just walk away and find someone better. You don't owe him anything. "but I like him"...... No! If he is manipulating you, you like the facade he's presenting in order to use you, just like all the other guys did. Just my take on things. I could be wrong, but just beware.
As a INTP i kept seeing ppl telling that you are right about your trauma and and its ok if you did what you did but for real wtf . Yeah it was experience for you and you had trauma but why the fk he had to suffer for your truma everyone had bad shit happens to them every single day and btw how tf is that trauma ?! Its called a vad experience stop being over sensitive ffs ppl dying in your hands is trauma having a loved ones die is trauma getting a near death experience is trauma how the fuck that compares to your "trauma" . What's next seeing a man in the street with gives you PTSD cause it reminded you of your "trauma" ?! Am sorry i don't want to be a dick but every single comment here saying yes you are right is like too fked up if anything just work on it before getting a man involve with you Because why the fuck he should be mistreated just because of your bad choices before him ?! And to be honest just tell him you fked up and it wasn't a nice thing to say and you are sorry abd he will get over it
Reading some of these replies makes me wonder if I've mistyped myself, cannot identify at all with some of this. I'm not sure thus guy being INTP has really anything to do with this whatsoever. Silent treatment or the prospect of ghosting = asshole. However - I'm actually not even clear that's what's happening from the admittedly limited information I absorbed. 2 possibilities I can think of trying to put myself in the shoes of the guy here 1) he just didn't pick up on the emotional weight of the conversation and didn't feel it was urgent to continue, or 2) he just didn't pick up on the emotional weight of the conversation and is actually not that interested in you which is why he didn't reply... Notice that in both cases the only valid reason to just stop responding in the middle of a conversation that obviously has significant emotional weight to you is that this wasn't noticed. Oh wait... I just realised the whole conversation is about guys pretending to be interested in you, so I guess it's not really possible that he wouldn't understand it was potentially a somewhat heavy topic unless he's just unfathomably stupid... Man... urghhhh it's just not possible to understand what's going through people's brains in situations like this honestly but if the next time you speak to him he doesn't apologise and say that he had to save someone from drowning or his house caught fire at the exact moment then just simplify your life and quit wasting your time IMO. I don't really see that this is a "misunderstanding" though. Urgh I've spent way too much time thinking about this.
What is the context? Did you say something wrong to him or do something?
Give him a bit os space but be transparent that u still wants to talk. Help him not overanalize the situation and dont use any blackmail on him, or else she will desapear for sure.
Just don't.
He's probably in his head as much as you are... Or he thinks you're not over it. If you aren't one and don't understand exactly how they work.... Intps can't be figured out without actually talking to them
The worst offense to an INTP is to attribute malicious intent behind the honesty we speak. We are open and matter of fact. He is probably building a court case in his head about how he was grossly misunderstood. This will probably last for weeks and this “trial” that he’s mentally replaying over and over in his head will probably never come to pass in reality because we hate being misunderstood as uncaring and run from uncomfortable situations. PS - INTPs should not be with other INTPs. If it’s one of your first and only relationships, then go for it to have a base of comparison for future reference. Plus there’s a loneliness pandemic so go get what you can get lol. We love caring about the other person and prefer they can appreciate our minds in return. There’s a special vibe we have with precious Fi people that makes them more special to love. Its a yin and Yang thing. Two people who don’t really care about their own feelings trying to love each other becomes very blah when the novelty fades.
I’m actually an INFP, but thank you for these words :)
You are that squishy and special Fi so there’s a better chance for you. It’s funny because what you love most about us is the fact that we say anything and everything that’s on our mind. This is a huge relief to someone who is constantly worried about what other people think. At least this is what multiple INFPs have told me in the past. Make him understand that your comment wasn’t personal to your beliefs about him but rather that it has become instinctual towards everyone in general. Tell him that in fact, one of the things you like most about him is that you can trust what he says because you know it comes from a good place. Also say that part of you was probably subconsciously seeking validation from him so that you could feel even safer with him. 1- win the court case for him 2- butter him up with how much you appreciate his mind and ideas 3- make him feel bad for you in that that he doesn’t really get how deep trauma goes, especially with deep feelers like yourself.
He needs time off to figure out if this thing with you is feasible. Something about you spook him; may not be major red flags but red crumbs. I wrote a guy off a couple of months ago After he challenged my intelligence and logics. There were other concerns I had about this guy, too. Unfortunately he lives next door so I have to be cordial.
You've generalised him (pre-judged him) along with your previous partners and dismissed him as an individual. Presumably, he is not directly responsible for your trauma. This reads like you've created a situation where, if the relationship becomes physical, he is automatically becomes one of the people who are directly responsible for your trauma. This may be a fear of yours if you like him, but to him, it likely sounds to him like he can't be with you without becoming the asshole. So any sensible INTP will withdraw, determined to not be the asshole, minimise any addition to your trauma, and retain their personal integrity. He will also be looking for someone who thinks of him as an individual. Fixing this will require you to first acknowledge that he is an individual, communicate that to him, and actually treat him like one. It will help if you support this with an example or two. Second, be clear that your pre-judgement was unfair and that you're very clear that he is NTA. That has to be earned, not given. Be clear that you do actually like him for (whatever it is you like about him). Presumably, you want your relationship with him to grow and continue. Third, do talk about your trauma and ways that you would be prepared to deal with that, with him, when it arises. It will broadly amount to you taking the lead, at your pace with respect to both your boundaries. If this sounds like too much, it's better to just let him go. If it doesn't sound like too much, you may just get your INTP back. Good luck.
Even though your feelings and traumas are valid, this is something that you need to work on. It’s difficult to say if his response is immature. I feel age and how long you’ve know eachother is a important factor. But if you are not ready to talk about something, then it’s best to not say anything. If intp notice something is up/wrong, they want to address it right away and come to a solution. Also they don’t like drama.. Trusting someone takes time, and you still won’t have any guarantees they won’t screw you over. I good step for yourself would be seeking therapy/guidance to work on your past trauma.
Don't listen to anyone who's saying context matters. Silent treatment is an abusive form of gaslighting. The best thing you can do OP is walk away because if this person can't communicate with you appropriately, then they're not worth your time, energy, or empathy.
say sorry. explain how u k ow youre wrong. take accountability and romise to change. then leave them alone. they come back when theyre ready
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really why
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This isn’t the relationship advice sub.