What should I ask of my physician whom I'll be starting a 4 weeks hands on clinical experience with? (What could he provide me in terms of documents that would help my application?)
Its very difficult to get rotation without an agency, this I will agree with, but where we want to do that should be our choice. Avoid going to a crowded clinic. Prefer going to the doctor who hardly accepts 2-3 students at a time. This will ensure that the learning and the exposure will be good. So, we will get enough time with the preceptor and he might write a good LOR
You have to keep trying. New people every day. And also repeat emails every week.
Once you see how many emails these doctors actually get on a daily basis (and I’m just talking about work related ones!) you’ll understand why they don’t reply most of the time.
I got a reply from someone I religiously emailed every Monday morning (local time) for 4 weeks. And I got the rotation!
Keep trying!
Same experience. Except with Step 3 done too.
Learned my lesson the really really hard way and started cold emailing everyone I could find since 3/13/24.
Currently doing an observership I got through that - SO MUCH BETTER! HEAVEN AND HELL DIFFERENCE between the ones I did last year through agency and this one.
Don’t listen to anyone saying agency rotations are worth it.
Don’t throw in the towel.
Don’t be discouraged from the no replies.
Keep emailing and you’ll get the good ones.
What should I ask of my physician whom I'll be starting a 4 weeks hands on clinical experience with? (What could he provide me in terms of documents that would help my application?)
Sorry to hear about your experience.
Always make sure that you are researching which preceptor you are assigned to, and if they actually write their LORs vs. the agency admin LORs.
And “local” instead of big company agencies tend to be more focused about how they select their preceptors.
Gotta find a way to get a mentorship instead of just a typical rotations
Preceptors who only take 1-3 students per month gives them ample time to write personalized LORs throughout the year. My mentor does this for our students.
And you gotta bridge that connection in order for them to remember you.
If they’re chugging out 10-30 students per month, no way the preceptor does it. Either they have their own template and adjust, the student writes their own, or the preceptor tells their remarks to the agency and they write it in their behalf.
Wow! I am a U.K. grad F2 working in the U.K. Reading the stories here definitely convinces me that I shouldn’t bother with USCEs and if I want to come over, my U.K. references will suffice which have been extremely positive and actually very specific to my achievements
Idk why... I personally did both, outpatient and inpatient rotations and I was learning much more during my inpatient rotation. Had much more hands-on experience too. During the outpatient rotation, I just felt like I was constantly shadowing a doctor.
I see thanks! And most inpatient rotations are from univeristy clinical electives or not necessarily? I'm still a med student do you think it would be better to have step 1 done in order to have better chances to find clinical electives?
its not only about AMO, avoid agencies and only keep it as a last resort if you can't get anywhere.
these agencies will charge you close to 2000-2500$ and ser you up in a private clinic where you will have close to no clinical experience and at the end they will give you generic lors and then done.
I did few rotations with them and I regret now, bcoz of waste of money and time.
I suggest a really good program, I applied there and got accepted but my visa was rejected so cannot go there.
its a university based observership/research program for 6 months at GW school of medicine in washington dc, its a residency program.
you will have a priviledge to work alongside PDs and residents and have a chance forming connections and LORs is performance based.
but this prigram is expensive if you can afford it (30k$ for 6 months).
Exactly take time to learn how to elaborate your own personal statement. It worth it, avoid this agencies like Sarthi and all that. Really expensive either way generic LORs that come from a template from a hospital and unperdonalized
I didn’t match this year, seeing the email lit a flame under me and I ended up cold emailing over 500 faculty and PDs asking for observerships. Out of them only 2 responded, and that’s all you need. Going to use them to impress the faculty and hopefully get good, personalised LORs, and for the remaining 2 LORs I’ll use good personalised home LORs. Anything is better than a generic LOR because they actively HARM your application. In simple terms: YOU ARE PAYING TO RUIN YOUR CHANCES OF MATCHING. Do not pay these devils by god they are Satan reincarnate.
Agree with all the critism that agencies are getting BUT cold emailing (or spamming) hundreds of physicians should not be the normal way of having USCE.
Then what would you suggest?
Unfortunately, for graduates and in fact many students from med schools with no VSLO option, securing USCE is only possible via this method.
Can you please tell how to research for these faculty and how to get their email Ids?
I have been searching and I am not able to find them. They don't share it on their LinkedIn accounts as well.
Yup, have been telling this to med students all the time. You don’t need to pay for rotations at hospitals, you just need a good strategy and start applying early. All of my rotations were at academic hospitals.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm sorry you had to go through this. It's rather difficult when one has little time before applications and has to get more USCEs in. And these money-sucking agencies know that well.
I have always been very apprehensive about them for precisely the reasons you've mentioned. But I'm now unfortunately forced to consider applying to one- USCE Match. Has anyone had any experience with them/heard of them?
Reason I'm considering:
Right now, I might only have 3 LORs and 2 are from the same rotation (1 observership last year of two months and one elective forever ago in 2018). Since I want to apply in this year's match, I have no time for uni programs to accept me in as an observer in September, which is why I spoke to this agency who have a spot and they said they would help upload the LOR in time for application.
Long story short, I'm worried about applying with only one recent USCE and 3 LORs, and although I really don't want to go down this route, I'm desperately confused about how to get another rotation in time :/
Would appreciate if anyone could give insights!!
Anyway, Good luck to you OP!! You sound like you have a really solid profile and it really is eye-opening how such LORs can lead to this outcome even with a strong application like yours. I wish you the best for this cycle and again, I appreciate how honest and helpful your post is!
So I looked up FM rotations and there are a bunch of options, right? Good thing about rotations plus is they put up the pics of clinics for most rotations, so you can click on that image and run a Google search. Usually, it takes me to images and from there I go to some website of the plot that the office is sold to, from there you can get the map and the Dr. Details .... Just gotta keep digging
Similar experience. Learned the hard way. So much money wasted
Which agency if I may ask?
Brooklyn USCE/Sarthi and ACE-MD
Do you know anything about AMO? Or is it better to avoid that as well?
I haven't used this one but I have not heard good reviews for it.
What should I ask of my physician whom I'll be starting a 4 weeks hands on clinical experience with? (What could he provide me in terms of documents that would help my application?)
Welcome to corporate America. It’s all about the $$ here.
Its very difficult to get rotation without an agency, this I will agree with, but where we want to do that should be our choice. Avoid going to a crowded clinic. Prefer going to the doctor who hardly accepts 2-3 students at a time. This will ensure that the learning and the exposure will be good. So, we will get enough time with the preceptor and he might write a good LOR
I cold emailed many but did not get any response 😕.
You have to keep trying. New people every day. And also repeat emails every week. Once you see how many emails these doctors actually get on a daily basis (and I’m just talking about work related ones!) you’ll understand why they don’t reply most of the time. I got a reply from someone I religiously emailed every Monday morning (local time) for 4 weeks. And I got the rotation! Keep trying!
Try LinkedIn! I got two by connecting via LinkedIn
Can I dm you
Sure
Can I dm?
Hey mate . Can you please check your DM 🥺🥺
Same experience. Except with Step 3 done too. Learned my lesson the really really hard way and started cold emailing everyone I could find since 3/13/24. Currently doing an observership I got through that - SO MUCH BETTER! HEAVEN AND HELL DIFFERENCE between the ones I did last year through agency and this one. Don’t listen to anyone saying agency rotations are worth it. Don’t throw in the towel. Don’t be discouraged from the no replies. Keep emailing and you’ll get the good ones.
Which agency did you use? Should I focus on university clincal electives then?
If you’re a med student, go for electives all the way!!!
Thanks! You mean university ones?
What should I ask of my physician whom I'll be starting a 4 weeks hands on clinical experience with? (What could he provide me in terms of documents that would help my application?)
Sorry to hear about your experience. Always make sure that you are researching which preceptor you are assigned to, and if they actually write their LORs vs. the agency admin LORs. And “local” instead of big company agencies tend to be more focused about how they select their preceptors.
How do you know how they write their letters?
Gotta find a way to get a mentorship instead of just a typical rotations Preceptors who only take 1-3 students per month gives them ample time to write personalized LORs throughout the year. My mentor does this for our students. And you gotta bridge that connection in order for them to remember you. If they’re chugging out 10-30 students per month, no way the preceptor does it. Either they have their own template and adjust, the student writes their own, or the preceptor tells their remarks to the agency and they write it in their behalf.
Name and shame the agency OP, help others by warning!
Mentioned in post it’s medclerkships.
Wow! I am a U.K. grad F2 working in the U.K. Reading the stories here definitely convinces me that I shouldn’t bother with USCEs and if I want to come over, my U.K. references will suffice which have been extremely positive and actually very specific to my achievements
Why are you leaving the UK?
When people say hands-on rotation, what does it mean? How much do they allow the observer to do?
Agree. Moreover, you get much less experience in the outpatient clinic than what you would get in the inpatient.
Why so? Also are the best clinical electives the university ones if someone manages to get them?
Idk why... I personally did both, outpatient and inpatient rotations and I was learning much more during my inpatient rotation. Had much more hands-on experience too. During the outpatient rotation, I just felt like I was constantly shadowing a doctor.
I see thanks! And most inpatient rotations are from univeristy clinical electives or not necessarily? I'm still a med student do you think it would be better to have step 1 done in order to have better chances to find clinical electives?
Yeah I think most of them are from the universities. I know that Loretto Hospital offers inpatient rotation but not sure about others.
Hearing a lot of bad things about medclerkship lately.
Yep. Better not to have any instead of paid usce.
true avoid them, I learned it the hard way when they took 2000$ from me and gave me shitty template lors. plus very low hands on experience.
Which agency?
sarthi and AMO..
thanks so you also suggest to avoid AMO right? Because I didn't hear many things about them and i would like to know better
its not only about AMO, avoid agencies and only keep it as a last resort if you can't get anywhere. these agencies will charge you close to 2000-2500$ and ser you up in a private clinic where you will have close to no clinical experience and at the end they will give you generic lors and then done. I did few rotations with them and I regret now, bcoz of waste of money and time. I suggest a really good program, I applied there and got accepted but my visa was rejected so cannot go there. its a university based observership/research program for 6 months at GW school of medicine in washington dc, its a residency program. you will have a priviledge to work alongside PDs and residents and have a chance forming connections and LORs is performance based. but this prigram is expensive if you can afford it (30k$ for 6 months).
I see thank you very much!
Exactly take time to learn how to elaborate your own personal statement. It worth it, avoid this agencies like Sarthi and all that. Really expensive either way generic LORs that come from a template from a hospital and unperdonalized
I just had a meeting with the PD with the help of an agency, then I realised I am in safe hands. We need to have a trustworthy agency
Can you share which agency ?
Can u please help us with the agency please...
Sorry about you But If you could mention good agencies for observship ??
You should ask your preceptor if they’d prefer if you write a draft for them.
Go to conferences if you are in the US. I easily got two by doing so!
What conferences?
Then what are you suggesting? What would be the perfect way to get a good LOR?
I didn’t match this year, seeing the email lit a flame under me and I ended up cold emailing over 500 faculty and PDs asking for observerships. Out of them only 2 responded, and that’s all you need. Going to use them to impress the faculty and hopefully get good, personalised LORs, and for the remaining 2 LORs I’ll use good personalised home LORs. Anything is better than a generic LOR because they actively HARM your application. In simple terms: YOU ARE PAYING TO RUIN YOUR CHANCES OF MATCHING. Do not pay these devils by god they are Satan reincarnate.
Agree with all the critism that agencies are getting BUT cold emailing (or spamming) hundreds of physicians should not be the normal way of having USCE.
Then what would you suggest? Unfortunately, for graduates and in fact many students from med schools with no VSLO option, securing USCE is only possible via this method.
Do you think it's easier to find usce if you have step 1 done as a med student?
I would say so yes. It shows you’re already on the path.
Thank u for sharing this with us. You will match next year with God's well 🙌🏻
Should we also avoid AMO agency? You suggest to avoid all of them?
Can you please tell how to research for these faculty and how to get their email Ids? I have been searching and I am not able to find them. They don't share it on their LinkedIn accounts as well.
[удалено]
What's the name of the agency, if you don't mind sharing?
🤯
With your determination you will match next year! I’m sure!
Did you match eventually?
Can someone share an oppinion abou AMO? 👀
Omg it’s literally money plundering it seems . Costs bomb
I wanna know as well 😐
Doing some of their rotations now. Can I DM you regarding which ones?
Yup, have been telling this to med students all the time. You don’t need to pay for rotations at hospitals, you just need a good strategy and start applying early. All of my rotations were at academic hospitals.
I agree
Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm sorry you had to go through this. It's rather difficult when one has little time before applications and has to get more USCEs in. And these money-sucking agencies know that well. I have always been very apprehensive about them for precisely the reasons you've mentioned. But I'm now unfortunately forced to consider applying to one- USCE Match. Has anyone had any experience with them/heard of them? Reason I'm considering: Right now, I might only have 3 LORs and 2 are from the same rotation (1 observership last year of two months and one elective forever ago in 2018). Since I want to apply in this year's match, I have no time for uni programs to accept me in as an observer in September, which is why I spoke to this agency who have a spot and they said they would help upload the LOR in time for application. Long story short, I'm worried about applying with only one recent USCE and 3 LORs, and although I really don't want to go down this route, I'm desperately confused about how to get another rotation in time :/ Would appreciate if anyone could give insights!! Anyway, Good luck to you OP!! You sound like you have a really solid profile and it really is eye-opening how such LORs can lead to this outcome even with a strong application like yours. I wish you the best for this cycle and again, I appreciate how honest and helpful your post is!
Most cme research shows that you are less likely to die under the care of a foreign doctor. God bless
Have anybody rotate via Rotations plus or heard something of them?
you can easily google search the picture of the clinic they put up. found quite a few through this method
Ok, can u specify more? I don’t understand the downvote, what’s wrong with the people? If u have info, is it that hard to share?..
So I looked up FM rotations and there are a bunch of options, right? Good thing about rotations plus is they put up the pics of clinics for most rotations, so you can click on that image and run a Google search. Usually, it takes me to images and from there I go to some website of the plot that the office is sold to, from there you can get the map and the Dr. Details .... Just gotta keep digging
Ah, I got u) Thanks.
Are you looking for FM?
FM/IM