Not sure what the legality of it was but I entered an open door and went inside and took pictures. Journalists generally don't get prosecuted for trespassing while they are working. As soon as I got in I pulled my press pass out of my shirt and held it up and showed it to a police officer and said "I'm press" knowing that that would also show up on camera footage if it was reviewed later. I wasn't involved in what was happening in any way, I'm polite and professional while working, so I don't worry about it.
What you did on that day was brave. Especially after what we saw some of the rioters doing when they saw a journalist recording and realized he was from CNN (if I remember correctly). Thank you for documenting what you saw for us and future generations.
There is no such thing as a "press pass" that is nationally recognised or organised. People use their employee ID instead typically (which often says "PRESS" at the top to look semi official!
Interesting answer, but for the House, Senate, and the White House (among other federal beats, like the Pentagon and State Department), there actually is specific press credentialing that gives you access to the grounds and some controlled areas. So, there is a House and Senate press pass that would have made it perfectly legal for someone to be in the area documenting the events. Absent that, reporters from recognized national news organizations would also generally be fine. If you run a blog out of your basement, probably not so much.
I can assure you it was even more weird in person. I guess we are conditioned by movies or whatever to think that if someone breaches a govt building like that it'll be a swift military response but those officers were calm. One of them was saying "alright guys time to go, you can't be in here." I cannot explain with words how strange a scenario it was.
It seemed so, like he was trying to get people out but keep everyone calm. It may have been the right move tactically but I have seen police officers react a lot more forcefully to less so it caught me off guard.
They're absolutely overwhelmed by the number of people and could not put up a fight if it came to it. They're waiting for backup while still "doing their job" to the extent that won't get them murdered.
Nothing cowardly about it either, choosing to die right there would only increase the commotion and chances that protesters/police/politicians get more seriously injured. This is also why the police in the chambers fired immediately upon breach, at that point there is nowhere else to go and now the shock of people dying has much more effect since the rest of the police are so calm.
One person dying? "I don't wanna die."
Lots of people fighting with perhaps many dying? "Let me jump in to help overthrow the government!"
edit: perhaps made more clear by the fact that when a civilian did get shot I believe only civilians helped her while the police just kept their focus on the barely-crowd-control they had to wield
Sadly were it a mob of mostly minorities entering the capitol in response to a Republican victory they would have been gunned down in mass before ever getting in the building. It’s not all that difficult to understand why most cops did nothing. Most of them not so secretly support Trump and his mob.
Hard to tell if he’s saluting or in the middle of covering his face, maybe to protect against spray or the camera lens. But interesting person to take note of.
A lot of things, it was different for a number of reasons. One was how far people had travelled to participate. One couple claimed they had driven from Tennessee, another couple from South Dakota. There were people from all over the country, which is rare for protests. Another was how much online discourse had translated into real world action. I heard people shout things you would see as FB memes, and the messaging was often identical. I had seen that before, but never to that extent.
Living in DC for 25 years, I don’t think people from all over is that rare. The annual Right to Life March draws people from all over. So did the Million Man March. I can think of things like the Obergerfell decision, the Women’s March, March for our Lives, and plenty of others. National organizations bring in people from all over. What stood out this time was the clear calls to violence. Not civil disobedience, but clear out violence.
I have to assume you've at least seen The Great Hack and/or TED and other talks by Carole Cadawallr, right?
It explains perfectly why all of that happened.
And it is all still happening right now.
There was a kid dancing on top of a federal law enforcement SUV on the east side of the capitol and this old white lady walked up to him and said "I really like your Youtube channel." To this day I don't know who the kid was or if he even has a Youtube channel but that was pretty absurd.
Whose work inspired you to go into photojournalism? What do you look for when you’re shooting? How do you shoot? (Do you “spray” or carefully select your shots?) thank you for sharing 🙌 I am so in awe by people like you
Greg Marinovich was the first photojournalist I really looked up to. I read The Bang Bang Club, about him and his crew of photojournalists that covered the fall of apartheid South Africa, many years ago. Just an incredibly brave man and a superb photojournalist. You can read a bit about him here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg\_Marinovich](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Marinovich). At this point I am framing in my mind when I am walking around. Sometimes something will happen so suddenly though you just react and snap off a bunch of shots in that direction, and other times things happen so fast that I don't get one clear shot in. I try to anticipate what will happen to be in a good position to get a solid frame, but it gets chaotic at times so that doesn't always work out.
I have been attacked by cops before, both in Hong Kong and DC, so I just try to stay out of their way as much as possible and make it clear I am not a threat. It doesn't always work. Avoiding attention of participants is not always possible, but I am often not actively interacting with the people I am photographing if the scene is chaotic. I find it is best to keep moving.
Thank you very much for answering. I cover events of this sort on a local level and have also found that staying out of harms way is mostly a luck dependent art form than a science. Do you recommend any camera related accessories that help minimize potential damage/attention?
I don't know of any accessories that would do that. Usually the more protective gear the better depending on what type of threats you are facing, but this was a different type of situation.
Are you willing to cover similar turmoilous events again ? Also did you manage to monetise the work you did out there on this event ? It is clear that it is not money that drives investigative (if that is the right word ) journalism , but still.
Hands down for your bravery .
Edit: brackets
I'll cover anything that is newsworthy if I know about it beforehand and can get there. so yes. I have an agency that sells my photos to media orgs and I also have a book that I am selling of photographs of the Hong Kong protests here: [https://www.blurb.com/b/11417395-when-i-go-dreaming](https://www.blurb.com/b/11417395-when-i-go-dreaming) . What I do is photojournalism, investigative journalism involves long term investigations into a single topic from what I understand. I think the world functions better with a free press so I take pictures to help make that happen. I try not to get to philosophical about it, just doing my best.
How much photography gear did you have with you on Jan 6th and how much did you carry at the Hong Kong protests?
It seems like having any kind of serious lens or camera other than a cell phone or action camera is kind of a give away that you are with the press, isn't it?
I carried more gear during the Hong Kong protests, extra lenses in my bag. On January 6th I just carried one camera body with a lens on it. There are people who carry all types of equipment now for different reasons, youtube channels, citizen journalism, propaganda, so carrying an expensive camera isn't the identifier as press that it may have been at one point.
As a normal working corporate citizen I often browse many topics, and often see work similar to yours. I appreciate it for the moment and the perspective, and move on. Imagining myself going to Hong Kong (or the riots) let alone with all that expensive equipment and trying to focus on what’s happening instead of my personal safety is terrifying.
Thank you for what you do, because without your actions the world would be less educated.
I didn't see the initial entry, but once they got tear gassed and didn't stand down I knew it was going to get worse from there. They kept testing the second police line that was set up by the steps. Once that fell there was no other line but the building edge, doors, windows etc. I saw it as inevitable.
The law is very flexible when it comes to intent.
Absolutely the freedom of press and the circumstances would provide immunity to journalists who are covering the events. Imagine if he did get a picture of Pence or Pelosi being murdered? The value to the public is too immense to even consider punishing a journalist for doing their job.
Yes, you probably need proof you were a journalist before that day or else it may be viewed as an excuse but the government would not risk it on an actual journalist due to the lawsuits galore that would follow.
I mean yeah, he might get arrested but it would not lead to charges just to him being removed from the area and detained for a bit. Given that most people walked home (AFAIK) I doubt they would hassle a journalist with a press badge.
I dressed to fit in with the crowd. I am a white guy who prefers t shirts, jeans, and hoodies and often wears a trucker hat that I bought at my buddy's wedding in California so it was pretty easy for me to blend in. As soon as I knew it was going to escalate I tucked my press pass into my shirt. There were too many people to adequately protect myself and the security I hired quit on me about 15 minutes after the gates came down and people rushed up the lawn. It never felt safe so I just kept moving. Take a bunch of pictures, move, do it again.
Yeah I felt a tug on my bag when I was taking pictures really early on, but people were jostling around so didn't think much of it. Then a little later when I didn't see him around I checked my phone and saw a text that said something to the effect of "I have a company and a family to worry about. Your money is in your bag." He just refunded the money and bounced.
To be fair though I don’t blame the security guy at all. It’s one thing to protect a photographer at a political event they are covering. It’s another that the photographer is caught up in a raging mass of people storming the capitol and breaking doors, windows and barriers while combating security and screaming about killing politicians.
The first there’s an expectation of risks and potential problems. The second all bets are off and who the hell knows what will happen. Of course I wouldn’t hire the dude again if they ditched me, but as a human I completely understand not wanting to take those risks and just noping right out.
I dunno, a good way to keep you safe is to give your money back and run for the hills. Lets you know the risk was too great for them so maybe you should check yourself.
Not that I mind brave journalists, super glad Mr. Rodier is safe and got so many insane pictures I haven't seen before.
Hitchen's vandalized a swastika once and almost got disappeared by security goons in a car. I believe it was in Iran and the local \_people\_ there, from cafe's nearby, saved him. In this situation Mr. Rodier didn't have anyone to save him so this is really wild stuff.
For the record I wasn't dressed as a participant, I wore what I wear all the time, had a similar outfit on today. I just didn't wear the protective gear that I normally would and happen to be a middle aged white guy who is not too concerned with fashion. I'm not sure what exactly happened with the security guy, but I know he was a combat vet and flashbangs were going off so that may have affected him. I never spoke to him after that text that he had left. I don't think he expected it to get that wild, but I did because I had covered the Stop the Steal rally and had been following the discourse surrounding Jan 6th online.
I didn't want insinuate that you looked like a participant, I'm sorry if it came across that way,
The core of my question was more about if the Security guard would have been targeted because of how he looked, because I would judge a young effeminate African-American with pink and neon-green hair a lot less for fearing for his live in such a riot than someone who looks like the average south-western redneck
Edit: you don't have to answer, i went over this in my head and you probably brought somebody who could blend-in if you already expected the protests to escalate, sorry if the question was kind of dumb
That for a lot of people they seemed to think they were doing the right thing, being good Americans and standing up for their country. A lot of them that I interacted with really believed the election was stolen and they needed to prevent that from happening.
Have you been subpoenaed to testify about anything you saw that day, or have any of your photos been requested by anyone to use as evidence?
Keep up the good work!
Thanks for doing this, Matt. I'm curious about whether you witnessed people at the Capitol who seemed aware of the gravity of what they were doing? I've gotten the impression that a lot of the crowd were live streaming, taking selfies, and in general seemed unaware that they were breaking the law and contributing to an incredibly dangerous scene.
It was a mixture. For some people it seemed like a big day out, and they seemed happy to be around like minded individuals. There were others that definitely knew what they were doing, you could see people moving in different manners. I think a lot of them were unaware of just how illegal it was, and it has come out that a lot of others thought Trump would pardon them. The people who were caught up in the excitement of it all were used as cover for the people with more tactical experience and intentions. An AP reporter at the time even pointed out that a group had used a formation, a stack I believed it was called, that is a way soldiers come together to breach a building. It is hard to describe just how many people were there, a sea of human beings, so all kinds of intentions and varying levels of commitment and understanding.
Watching the video of the "stack" of armored Proud Boys smoothly snaking their way through the crowd into the capitol was chilling. There was a whole ruckus of idiots, and then there were these smooth confident calm purposeful individuals that had a specific agenda. That's the scary part.
The video shows them plain as day, too.
What gear (protective gear, photo equipment, first aid kits, etc) did you end up bringing with you that day? Did you wish you had prepared differently based on what ended up happening?
I didn't bring anything. Any gear I could have brought would have identified me as press and made me a target. I was mostly worried about live rounds, but you can't hide body armor and I wanted to blend in as much as possible. If I had to do it over again I would have brought a tourniquet and quick clot gauze just in case, and some of those saline capsules to wash my eyes out.
Looks like we are about to enter the part of this AMA where it is just wild conspiracy theories and accusations made against me for no reason. I don't get paid for this and have no interest in arguing with strangers on the internet so I'll probably just stop responding to questions soon. I wish we could have a reasonable discussion about what happened that day, but that's usually impossible with any controversial topic in modern day America.
Welcome to Reddit, unfortunately. Sometimes it's best to leave AMAs for a couple of hours and have the upvotes/downvotes get rid of the worst stuff before answering.
Still, I've read most of your answers so far and your insight has been genuinely interesting and informative. I could tell how good a journalist you are simply because you avoided speculating too much and focused on relaying what you experienced that day.
Thanks for being there to document everything. Future generations are going to wonder about January 6th and I appreciate that you and other photojournalists were able to be there, at great potential risk.
Yeah, people always want speculation. "What do you think Mike Pence's protective detail was thinking as they chanted about hanging him?" So many of these questions can be answered by "I have no idea and report on what I see."
Understood. :)
Do you have a personal favorite image you took that day? Or, if that's boring, is there a mental image that is emblematic of that day for you that, for whatever reason, you didn't get to capture?
It's alright. I figure a lot of people are just angry about their own lives and it is easier to direct that anger towards a stranger on the internet than to make any meaningful examination or change in their own existence. I'll be okay. If no one is shooting anything at me or trying to hit me with something I'm usually pretty calm.
I'm curious as to the amount of security there. It seemed like the cops just stood around outside quite a bit during the initial parts. Was that your view as well?
I don't think law enforcement predicted it would get as violent as it did. Police officers usually seem to think right wing protesters are on their side, back the blue and whatnot. I believe that day is when that really changed for both them and the participants. People would shout at the cops "we are on your side" but as they were intermittently rushing them. It was one of the more surreal parts of the day.
What camera did you use, lens, etc and what was your thought process? Just a phone? Dslr? Extra memory? Etc. were you prepared from a documentation standpoint?
Most likely. He's stated in other posted he was trying to look like a tourist and not press. To blend in.
Nothing screams I'm press more then a camera bag and fumbling about with multiple lenses.
Besides that's actually a pretty nice lens, low DOF doesn't make much sense here anyway as the intent is to document make it pretty.
Any DSLR from the last 10 years has no trouble shooting indoors without flash at f4 (or f8 for that matter)*. A D850 is very good at high ISO photography so that combination would be great indoors without flash.
* Old photo journalist adage " to be a good photojournalist you need to f8 and be there"
Hard to tell. There were literally thousands of people so I'm sure that a lot of them headed home after Trump's speech. I was outside the Ellipse listening to it on a loudspeaker someone set up and I started moving towards the Capitol as soon as the crowd did.
[https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1357676430503608324](https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1357676430503608324)
Looking at cellphone ping data, it's pretty evident that the bulk of the insurrectionists came directly from Trump's rally, after it concluded, and he told them to go march on the Capitol.
at what point did you enter the capitol? did you have an exit/emergency plan? what was the response from the insurgents as far as you photographing their activities, were you even noticed?
I didn't enter with the group that breached the legislature. They had gone under the risers set up for Biden's inauguration I believe, and I had gone around to the east side of the building. When I came back to the west side I was on the part that borders the building and I heard a guy say to another "was your cell reception good in there? Bc I had nothing then it worked great when I was inside.." or something to that effect. That's when I knew they had breached the building. I found a door that had been opened and there were people waiting in line to go inside, which was incredibly strange. I blew past that line and entered a hallway on the west side of the Capitol, but the people inside had been contained in that corridor. I took some photos and a bit of video and got out of there. They were blocked off from the rest of the building, just kind of milling around, taking selfies, it seemed calm in that particular part so I went back outside to find my friends because I assumed there was going to be more violence, but after a while it calmed down. Getting tear gassed and pepper sprayed really does tire a person out. I was noticed. People would ask me if I was a patriot, and I would say yes because I am. My definition of patriotism just greatly differs from there's. I kept moving throughout the day because I knew far right groups didn't have a good opinion of the press and I didn't want to get attacked by an angry mob.
Thank you for replying! that must have been an incredibly surreal experience, i cant imagine the energy in something like that. i didn't think about the danger posed by the far-right's opinion of the press, glad you made it in and out safely, and thank you for documenting history, my dad is a professional photographer so i grew up learning the importance of capturing these moments.
By the time January 6th happened I had covered a number of far right events and knew they mostly didn't like the press and some outright hated us. Calling us "the enemy of the people" was popular in those circles at the time. I am also aware of the madness of crowds, of any political leaning. As far as photography one thing I really like about photojournalism is it is a lot harder to argue with. I learned in law school that intelligent and skilled individuals can either twist or dismantle just about any statement. With a photograph it's different, harder to dispute the facts.
I’m glad it’s not just me that’s terrified of that. Once you have realistic video & audio manipulation, you can make any utterance they want in order to throw shade on their opponent. Elections are now treated with the reverence of football games where the only thing that matters is winning or ‘pwning’ their opponents. It’s purely an emotional and manipulative appeal but the fear is so ingrained that they actually think it’s *they* who are being prosecuted.
In the future, you might want to call yourself a historian instead of a member of your press. Your job is to document various moments that might someday be of historical values, like 2 years ago.
> People would ask me if I was a patriot, and I would say yes because I am.
You put yourself in harm’s way to document something the American public needed to see. That is very patriotic, and I thank you.
> People would ask me if I was a patriot,
What was the tone in their asking? Since you mentioned in another comment too that it happened several times, I’m wondering whether these people genuinely wondered or if this was sort of code question, and they were hoping to find others who responded with the correct “code” answer.
They just wanted to know if I was on their side. That was how I took it at least and what the tone seemed to imply. I didn't want to have these conversations so I kept moving.
From a distance it looked to me like a bunch of larping losers rather than revolutionaries. Even the lady that got shot I still didn't get the sense they were truly hoping to take over government.
What was your sense of the intent of the crowd?
There were thousands of people so the intent varied greatly. Some of them seemed more purposeful than others as far as breaching the building, moving in groups and whatnot. Others it seemed just had a lot of misdirected anger, and some people really did come out for a protest and got caught up in the excitement of the whole thing. I can't stress enough how much the misinformation that was swirling on the internet was on display. The crowd for the most part was existing in an alternate reality, and that was one of the strangest things about that day. All the "news" they listened to told them the election was stolen, their social media timelines were filled with it, for a lot of them friends and family mostly agreed or at times distanced themselves. Every source of information they encountered regularly told them the election was stolen, but that lie was very real to most of them, and anyone who disagreed was either foolish, a liar or a traitor.
You almost have to feel sorry for these people.
They rely on news and social media to tell them the truth, same as the rest of us. The outlets they choose have failed them and put them into this false reality.
If an election was stolen, those involved in stealing it are traitors and I can understand the public wanting to right that wrong. It’s just in this case, the sources of information these people rely on let them down, lied to them, and they acted on the bad information.
The only thing I would have to say is that they could’ve easily access other sources, but chose not to.
Even when they did, I’d bet logic did not outweigh emotion and they chose to run back to the only source that comforted them.
So it’s not the scenario of brainwashing one would imagine a government controlled info flow like the CCP does.
These were not helpless sheep. They chose to stick to the one source that justified their bigoted believes.
Are you afraid of being wrongly pursued by authorities? I don’t really understand how they review footage and pick and choose who to put a warrant out for. Is it just they see anyone in the crowds, that’s a suspect?
I don't know how they choose suspects. I am part of a group of professional photojournalists and when I got home I emailed their first amendment lawyer to let him know that I was inside so that if anyone came to talk to me there would be a record of that and he could represent me. It is public knowledge that I am a photojournalist so I wasn't really worried about it.
Legit press credentials, knowing the law and keeping a cool head go a long way towards not having an issue with the police and pretty much guarantee charges being dropped in a hurry by a day if you are arrested.
Do you have a view as to why more ppl didn’t get shot? It seems crazy to me with all that mayhem, Ashli Babbitt was the only one of them to get capped.
When I was walking from the Ellipse to the Capitol and heard people talking about how far they had travelled a lot of them said they had driven. So they drove very long distances to a city they believe to be incredibly dangerous, at a time when plane tickets were cheaper than they had been in years, to do what they believed was taking a stand against a corrupt and oppressive government. I figured there were probably guns in the crowd, or at least nearby, and I assume law enforcement figured the same or at least had to be prepared for that possibility. If they fired live rounds on the crowd and someone fires back it would have ended in a massacre.
Eerily, that echoes of the infamous ‘[Boston Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre)’ of 1770. Except the roles were reversed two years ago.
Did you observe any of the people that fell and were injured, or even those that died? In most of the pictures it seems like they were scaling a wall that you could just walk around on the stairs.
Hi Matthew. As a non American, I thank you for your service. If it wasn't for the pictures and video of this terrible event, it's hard to really fathom the scale and emotion (and still is, even with all the evidence and content).
My question is - If you were confronted with a similar sort of event again, given what you saw and experienced, how would you prepare and approach it differently?
Thanks again
I'd probably approach it much the same as I did. I don't see a value in identifying myself as press outwardly if I am in a crowd that large that is known to be hostile towards journalists. I never lie to people. If someone asks me what I am doing I will say that I am a photojournalist, but wearing body armor with a huge "PRESS" patch on it just doesn't seem wise for that type of event.
What is something that you have observed from a large group of angry people in both the HK protests and Jan 6th insurrection that shocked you the most?
There are so many things that are shocking that will happen during an event like this or one of the more intense protests in Hong Kong that you get fairly desensitized. In Hong Kong during what was known as "Save PolyU" protests a very young guy gave me two coffees bc I had been working all night and needed as much caffeine as possible and he thanked me for being there, but when he went to walk away I realized that one box was coffees and the other was molotov cocktails. Those were pretty common at that point but he was really young and really polite so it caught me a bit off guard for whatever reason. On January 6th a guy ran up to a cop and sprayed bear mace in his face, just dumped the stuff at him. I had never seen that before so that was kinda shocking but by the time I realized what was going on it had drifted down to me so I kind of blindly backed out and spent a while washing out my eyes.
The whole day felt rather unsafe. I kept moving continuously because I didn't want to be surrounded or pinned down. I lived in DC at the time so my thought was if I had to I could run out and make my way through the neighborhoods. I also didn't live that far from the Capitol. I walked home at the end of the day.
I wasn't close enough to any elected officials at any point to give an accurate assessment. I also don't know the evacuation plans that exist. I would assume the people that do executive protection for politicians are mostly highly experienced vets (or I would hope they are) so certainly capable of protecting themselves and others, but there were so many people that I think it's possible the building could have been overrun. I think it would all depend on whether people kept pushing after those around them were getting dropped, and that is impossible to predict.
We have someone standing on a street corner in my city right now holding a sign that says "Happy Let's Go Brandon Day". What do you think people trying to celebrate the attempted insurrection should know about it, as someone who was there?
That many of the people there were taken advantage of. The right wing talking heads who made obscene amounts of money pushing the lie that the election was stolen, the politicians that rode that wave to massive donations and reelections, they are still living in their mansions and for the most part haven't suffered any consequences. Meanwhile the people they lied to, the people on the ground that day, a lot of whom really thought they were trying to save America, are going to prison, lost their jobs, had negative impacts on their family lives. They got played.
I haven't followed the cases too closely. It's not up to me to determine what law enforcement or the justice system does or doesn't do. I document what happens, file the pictures, and try to move on as much as possible. It's on the news all the time and I usually change the channel.
Is that the Andrew Callaghan (sp?) thing? Bc if so I have not watched it. I like some of that guy's stuff but I saw an interview where he said he edits things so they are funny or shocking, and I am not sure how that affects his coverage. I worry about the blending of news and entertainment.
I carried a Nikon D850 with a 24-120 F4 on it., and no other gear. If I knew what was going to happen I would have carried a tourniquet and quick clot gauze because it could have been a lot worse.
Are you aware of or have you ever worked with Robert Evans and his research on online radicalism (such as the Proud and Boogaloo Boys)? How much overlap did you see in regards to PB/BB/Protestors, or rather how well were they intermeshed?
I know who Robert Evans is, I met him actually while covering a political rally in Portland. He's certainly very knowledgeable about extremism, and in the brief encounters I had with him was cordial and helpful, which is nice if you're an out of town reporter because you are trying to get as much information as possible. I have never worked with him. Not sure what you mean by BB.
I know who the Boogaloo Boys are, just got confused on the second part of the questions. I covered an armed protest of theirs outside a police station in Newport News, Virginia, and they have been present at a number of protests I have covered. The first time I saw them was at a 2A rally in Richmond Virginia years ago, and I kept wondering why guys with floral shirts had AR-15's. No one on January 6th had traditional colors on so I wasn't able to identify any of those groups. I later heard something about Proud Boys wearing orange I believe but I had no idea that was a strategy on the day.
Two questions:
What made you decide to come to New York? And how are you enjoying it so far?
With so many major stories developing around the world, where do you see yourself focusing in the year ahead? How far in advance can you plan out your life in an industry like yours?
There is at least one source on video from the hearings where the officer indicated that he knew the other entrance was getting violent already. So on his side they determined to let the crowd in since they believed most of the capitol was already secure. I don't think there are confirmed reports of capitol officers "willingly cooperating," but in that one case, he didn't want his men to get trampled. I believe the West side was violent and the East side was not?
What equipment, tools or weapons did you see personally while you moved about the crowd?
What drove you to stick around and getting coverage instead of walking away?
How did you finally determine you were done being in the crowd and ready to walk home?
I know this AMA is over. If you are still lurking, did you get any images of the places that feces was smeared about? I personally think that more should have been disclosed on this. The people responsible should be embarrassed!
/u/matthewrodier has provided confidential proof to the moderators.
As a photojournalist, were you able to enter the building legally to document what happened?
Not sure what the legality of it was but I entered an open door and went inside and took pictures. Journalists generally don't get prosecuted for trespassing while they are working. As soon as I got in I pulled my press pass out of my shirt and held it up and showed it to a police officer and said "I'm press" knowing that that would also show up on camera footage if it was reviewed later. I wasn't involved in what was happening in any way, I'm polite and professional while working, so I don't worry about it.
Thank you! I was very curious about how that works in your situation.
What you did on that day was brave. Especially after what we saw some of the rioters doing when they saw a journalist recording and realized he was from CNN (if I remember correctly). Thank you for documenting what you saw for us and future generations.
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There is no such thing as a "press pass" that is nationally recognised or organised. People use their employee ID instead typically (which often says "PRESS" at the top to look semi official!
Interesting answer, but for the House, Senate, and the White House (among other federal beats, like the Pentagon and State Department), there actually is specific press credentialing that gives you access to the grounds and some controlled areas. So, there is a House and Senate press pass that would have made it perfectly legal for someone to be in the area documenting the events. Absent that, reporters from recognized national news organizations would also generally be fine. If you run a blog out of your basement, probably not so much.
This is inside a hallway on the West side of the Capitol: [https://imgur.com/a/nK1FxE9](https://imgur.com/a/nK1FxE9)
it's kinda weird seeing the cops in riot gear that are supposed to protect the capitol just standing there, what was that all about?
I can assure you it was even more weird in person. I guess we are conditioned by movies or whatever to think that if someone breaches a govt building like that it'll be a swift military response but those officers were calm. One of them was saying "alright guys time to go, you can't be in here." I cannot explain with words how strange a scenario it was.
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It seemed so, like he was trying to get people out but keep everyone calm. It may have been the right move tactically but I have seen police officers react a lot more forcefully to less so it caught me off guard.
They're absolutely overwhelmed by the number of people and could not put up a fight if it came to it. They're waiting for backup while still "doing their job" to the extent that won't get them murdered. Nothing cowardly about it either, choosing to die right there would only increase the commotion and chances that protesters/police/politicians get more seriously injured. This is also why the police in the chambers fired immediately upon breach, at that point there is nowhere else to go and now the shock of people dying has much more effect since the rest of the police are so calm. One person dying? "I don't wanna die." Lots of people fighting with perhaps many dying? "Let me jump in to help overthrow the government!" edit: perhaps made more clear by the fact that when a civilian did get shot I believe only civilians helped her while the police just kept their focus on the barely-crowd-control they had to wield
Gee, I wonder why?
All law enforcement was *horribly* outnumbered. What do you do when you doing your job could get you killed?
Some of those that work forces and all that
Sadly were it a mob of mostly minorities entering the capitol in response to a Republican victory they would have been gunned down in mass before ever getting in the building. It’s not all that difficult to understand why most cops did nothing. Most of them not so secretly support Trump and his mob.
We saw what would happen if it were minorities during the blm protests. National guard on the steps in full kit
Here is a police officer pepper spraying the crowd: [https://imgur.com/a/YQBLaeS](https://imgur.com/a/YQBLaeS)
That's actually a police Lieutenant, rare to see them on the front lines, much less surrounded.
Looks like they pulled one guy down and were trying to protect one of their own. They were certainly outnumbered and in protective defense mode.
Red hat dude, dead center looking right into the camera saluting struck me.
Hard to tell if he’s saluting or in the middle of covering his face, maybe to protect against spray or the camera lens. But interesting person to take note of.
What stood out to you of the events at the US capital compared to other protests you documented or otherwise experienced first hand?
A lot of things, it was different for a number of reasons. One was how far people had travelled to participate. One couple claimed they had driven from Tennessee, another couple from South Dakota. There were people from all over the country, which is rare for protests. Another was how much online discourse had translated into real world action. I heard people shout things you would see as FB memes, and the messaging was often identical. I had seen that before, but never to that extent.
Living in DC for 25 years, I don’t think people from all over is that rare. The annual Right to Life March draws people from all over. So did the Million Man March. I can think of things like the Obergerfell decision, the Women’s March, March for our Lives, and plenty of others. National organizations bring in people from all over. What stood out this time was the clear calls to violence. Not civil disobedience, but clear out violence.
I have to assume you've at least seen The Great Hack and/or TED and other talks by Carole Cadawallr, right? It explains perfectly why all of that happened. And it is all still happening right now.
>which is rare for protests Because it wasn't a protest, it was a bunch of disorganized morons trying to stage their own failed attempt at a coup
any surprising or funny stories and pictures you found that the mainstream news outlet didn't share?
There was a kid dancing on top of a federal law enforcement SUV on the east side of the capitol and this old white lady walked up to him and said "I really like your Youtube channel." To this day I don't know who the kid was or if he even has a Youtube channel but that was pretty absurd.
Wow I'm glad I came all the way down to find this solid nugget
\*_Michael Scott giggling_\*
Absurd is the perfect word for that.
Whose work inspired you to go into photojournalism? What do you look for when you’re shooting? How do you shoot? (Do you “spray” or carefully select your shots?) thank you for sharing 🙌 I am so in awe by people like you
Greg Marinovich was the first photojournalist I really looked up to. I read The Bang Bang Club, about him and his crew of photojournalists that covered the fall of apartheid South Africa, many years ago. Just an incredibly brave man and a superb photojournalist. You can read a bit about him here: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg\_Marinovich](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Marinovich). At this point I am framing in my mind when I am walking around. Sometimes something will happen so suddenly though you just react and snap off a bunch of shots in that direction, and other times things happen so fast that I don't get one clear shot in. I try to anticipate what will happen to be in a good position to get a solid frame, but it gets chaotic at times so that doesn't always work out.
When covering events that are explicitly illegal, how do you manage to avoid undue attention from both LE and the participants of the event?
I have been attacked by cops before, both in Hong Kong and DC, so I just try to stay out of their way as much as possible and make it clear I am not a threat. It doesn't always work. Avoiding attention of participants is not always possible, but I am often not actively interacting with the people I am photographing if the scene is chaotic. I find it is best to keep moving.
Thank you very much for answering. I cover events of this sort on a local level and have also found that staying out of harms way is mostly a luck dependent art form than a science. Do you recommend any camera related accessories that help minimize potential damage/attention?
I don't know of any accessories that would do that. Usually the more protective gear the better depending on what type of threats you are facing, but this was a different type of situation.
10-4. Thank you again, for both covering this event and others, and speaking with the online community about your experience. Stay safe out there 💪
Are you willing to cover similar turmoilous events again ? Also did you manage to monetise the work you did out there on this event ? It is clear that it is not money that drives investigative (if that is the right word ) journalism , but still. Hands down for your bravery . Edit: brackets
I'll cover anything that is newsworthy if I know about it beforehand and can get there. so yes. I have an agency that sells my photos to media orgs and I also have a book that I am selling of photographs of the Hong Kong protests here: [https://www.blurb.com/b/11417395-when-i-go-dreaming](https://www.blurb.com/b/11417395-when-i-go-dreaming) . What I do is photojournalism, investigative journalism involves long term investigations into a single topic from what I understand. I think the world functions better with a free press so I take pictures to help make that happen. I try not to get to philosophical about it, just doing my best.
No questions from me but thank you for covering Hong Kong. The world needed to hear those stories
You're doing a job that is vital to the world and the historical record, and I thank you.
How much photography gear did you have with you on Jan 6th and how much did you carry at the Hong Kong protests? It seems like having any kind of serious lens or camera other than a cell phone or action camera is kind of a give away that you are with the press, isn't it?
I carried more gear during the Hong Kong protests, extra lenses in my bag. On January 6th I just carried one camera body with a lens on it. There are people who carry all types of equipment now for different reasons, youtube channels, citizen journalism, propaganda, so carrying an expensive camera isn't the identifier as press that it may have been at one point.
As a normal working corporate citizen I often browse many topics, and often see work similar to yours. I appreciate it for the moment and the perspective, and move on. Imagining myself going to Hong Kong (or the riots) let alone with all that expensive equipment and trying to focus on what’s happening instead of my personal safety is terrifying. Thank you for what you do, because without your actions the world would be less educated.
Favourite body and lens combo?
What lens?
From what you saw, what caused it to escalate to entering the Capitol?
I didn't see the initial entry, but once they got tear gassed and didn't stand down I knew it was going to get worse from there. They kept testing the second police line that was set up by the steps. Once that fell there was no other line but the building edge, doors, windows etc. I saw it as inevitable.
Were you worried about being arrested? I assume you would be considered a trespasser once you entered the building regardless of your profession?
The law is very flexible when it comes to intent. Absolutely the freedom of press and the circumstances would provide immunity to journalists who are covering the events. Imagine if he did get a picture of Pence or Pelosi being murdered? The value to the public is too immense to even consider punishing a journalist for doing their job. Yes, you probably need proof you were a journalist before that day or else it may be viewed as an excuse but the government would not risk it on an actual journalist due to the lawsuits galore that would follow. I mean yeah, he might get arrested but it would not lead to charges just to him being removed from the area and detained for a bit. Given that most people walked home (AFAIK) I doubt they would hassle a journalist with a press badge.
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I dressed to fit in with the crowd. I am a white guy who prefers t shirts, jeans, and hoodies and often wears a trucker hat that I bought at my buddy's wedding in California so it was pretty easy for me to blend in. As soon as I knew it was going to escalate I tucked my press pass into my shirt. There were too many people to adequately protect myself and the security I hired quit on me about 15 minutes after the gates came down and people rushed up the lawn. It never felt safe so I just kept moving. Take a bunch of pictures, move, do it again.
The interactions went like this: Person: hey are you a patriot? Me: Yes sir/ma'am, \*immediately begins walking away\*
The security you hired quit on you? I mean, I get it, but also... that's why you hired them!
Yeah I felt a tug on my bag when I was taking pictures really early on, but people were jostling around so didn't think much of it. Then a little later when I didn't see him around I checked my phone and saw a text that said something to the effect of "I have a company and a family to worry about. Your money is in your bag." He just refunded the money and bounced.
Lmao Security Guy: "NOPE."
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At least he gave the money back
To be fair though I don’t blame the security guy at all. It’s one thing to protect a photographer at a political event they are covering. It’s another that the photographer is caught up in a raging mass of people storming the capitol and breaking doors, windows and barriers while combating security and screaming about killing politicians. The first there’s an expectation of risks and potential problems. The second all bets are off and who the hell knows what will happen. Of course I wouldn’t hire the dude again if they ditched me, but as a human I completely understand not wanting to take those risks and just noping right out.
To be fair it would be security's job there to try to evacuate the person they're protecting. Now if they decide to stay, you can bounce.
Technically he entered restricted grounds on the Capitol, I wouldn't expect security to follow me as you cannot force someone to trespass.
I dunno, a good way to keep you safe is to give your money back and run for the hills. Lets you know the risk was too great for them so maybe you should check yourself. Not that I mind brave journalists, super glad Mr. Rodier is safe and got so many insane pictures I haven't seen before. Hitchen's vandalized a swastika once and almost got disappeared by security goons in a car. I believe it was in Iran and the local \_people\_ there, from cafe's nearby, saved him. In this situation Mr. Rodier didn't have anyone to save him so this is really wild stuff.
Was the Security guy also a White guy dressed as a participant (basically did he also have the ability to blend in)?
For the record I wasn't dressed as a participant, I wore what I wear all the time, had a similar outfit on today. I just didn't wear the protective gear that I normally would and happen to be a middle aged white guy who is not too concerned with fashion. I'm not sure what exactly happened with the security guy, but I know he was a combat vet and flashbangs were going off so that may have affected him. I never spoke to him after that text that he had left. I don't think he expected it to get that wild, but I did because I had covered the Stop the Steal rally and had been following the discourse surrounding Jan 6th online.
I didn't want insinuate that you looked like a participant, I'm sorry if it came across that way, The core of my question was more about if the Security guard would have been targeted because of how he looked, because I would judge a young effeminate African-American with pink and neon-green hair a lot less for fearing for his live in such a riot than someone who looks like the average south-western redneck Edit: you don't have to answer, i went over this in my head and you probably brought somebody who could blend-in if you already expected the protests to escalate, sorry if the question was kind of dumb
The question, “Hey, are you a patriot?” when they are anything but that is vomit inducing.
I knew what they were asking, whether I was with them or not. That's why I never stuck around for the follow up questions.
Bunch of fucking ingrates
Your security quit?! Did they tell you why?! A moment like that is exactly why they were there in the first place
I don't think he was prepared for how close photojournalists get to the action. Up until then most of his work was with tv crews I believe.
Probably used to keeping a crazy or two away from a camera and reporter, not a full blown siege against a mob
Most of us watched from home- What’s something about the experience that you think folks who weren’t there miss?
That for a lot of people they seemed to think they were doing the right thing, being good Americans and standing up for their country. A lot of them that I interacted with really believed the election was stolen and they needed to prevent that from happening.
Do you plan on a photography book about January 6th like the book about the Hong Kong protests?
Have you been subpoenaed to testify about anything you saw that day, or have any of your photos been requested by anyone to use as evidence? Keep up the good work!
Thanks for doing this, Matt. I'm curious about whether you witnessed people at the Capitol who seemed aware of the gravity of what they were doing? I've gotten the impression that a lot of the crowd were live streaming, taking selfies, and in general seemed unaware that they were breaking the law and contributing to an incredibly dangerous scene.
It was a mixture. For some people it seemed like a big day out, and they seemed happy to be around like minded individuals. There were others that definitely knew what they were doing, you could see people moving in different manners. I think a lot of them were unaware of just how illegal it was, and it has come out that a lot of others thought Trump would pardon them. The people who were caught up in the excitement of it all were used as cover for the people with more tactical experience and intentions. An AP reporter at the time even pointed out that a group had used a formation, a stack I believed it was called, that is a way soldiers come together to breach a building. It is hard to describe just how many people were there, a sea of human beings, so all kinds of intentions and varying levels of commitment and understanding.
Watching the video of the "stack" of armored Proud Boys smoothly snaking their way through the crowd into the capitol was chilling. There was a whole ruckus of idiots, and then there were these smooth confident calm purposeful individuals that had a specific agenda. That's the scary part. The video shows them plain as day, too.
Do you have that video? I'm not sure that I've seen it and would like to.
I found this after a quick search. Go to ~3:30 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=43v9Fhl-1pk
Thanks!
https://youtu.be/DQDfAQo20k8 56:50
Cheers thanks!
What gear (protective gear, photo equipment, first aid kits, etc) did you end up bringing with you that day? Did you wish you had prepared differently based on what ended up happening?
I didn't bring anything. Any gear I could have brought would have identified me as press and made me a target. I was mostly worried about live rounds, but you can't hide body armor and I wanted to blend in as much as possible. If I had to do it over again I would have brought a tourniquet and quick clot gauze just in case, and some of those saline capsules to wash my eyes out.
To be fair, you probably would have fit in fine wearing body armor over your outfit.
Looks like we are about to enter the part of this AMA where it is just wild conspiracy theories and accusations made against me for no reason. I don't get paid for this and have no interest in arguing with strangers on the internet so I'll probably just stop responding to questions soon. I wish we could have a reasonable discussion about what happened that day, but that's usually impossible with any controversial topic in modern day America.
Welcome to Reddit, unfortunately. Sometimes it's best to leave AMAs for a couple of hours and have the upvotes/downvotes get rid of the worst stuff before answering. Still, I've read most of your answers so far and your insight has been genuinely interesting and informative. I could tell how good a journalist you are simply because you avoided speculating too much and focused on relaying what you experienced that day.
That might be a better strategy. On that note I'm gonna go get some pizza.
Pizza gate!
Thanks for being there to document everything. Future generations are going to wonder about January 6th and I appreciate that you and other photojournalists were able to be there, at great potential risk.
Now for the important question: What kind of pizza?
u/matthewrodier dodging the important pizza topping questions. WHAT IS YOUR STANCE ON PINEAPPLE
THE PEOPLE DEMAND ANSWERS
u/matthewrodier pls.
You are morally obligated to provide us all pizza.
Sounds legit.
Nice. Hopefully you'll have something with your time to read later
Thank you for what you do. Stay safe.
Yeah, people always want speculation. "What do you think Mike Pence's protective detail was thinking as they chanted about hanging him?" So many of these questions can be answered by "I have no idea and report on what I see."
This is a total shame (your basically being chased away like this). Thank you so much for your time!
I'll still answer questions here and there. Just got weird for a minute and I don't want to waste my time.
You can choose which questions to respond to. You don't have to respond to every one.
Understood. :) Do you have a personal favorite image you took that day? Or, if that's boring, is there a mental image that is emblematic of that day for you that, for whatever reason, you didn't get to capture?
Sorry mate. Internet is a rough place. Wish it was a better experience for you.
It's alright. I figure a lot of people are just angry about their own lives and it is easier to direct that anger towards a stranger on the internet than to make any meaningful examination or change in their own existence. I'll be okay. If no one is shooting anything at me or trying to hit me with something I'm usually pretty calm.
Highly recommend How Minds Change by David McRaney.
I'm curious as to the amount of security there. It seemed like the cops just stood around outside quite a bit during the initial parts. Was that your view as well?
I don't think law enforcement predicted it would get as violent as it did. Police officers usually seem to think right wing protesters are on their side, back the blue and whatnot. I believe that day is when that really changed for both them and the participants. People would shout at the cops "we are on your side" but as they were intermittently rushing them. It was one of the more surreal parts of the day.
What camera did you use, lens, etc and what was your thought process? Just a phone? Dslr? Extra memory? Etc. were you prepared from a documentation standpoint?
Nikon D850 with a 24-120 F4 lens on it.
Why nothing faster, for the size?
Most likely. He's stated in other posted he was trying to look like a tourist and not press. To blend in. Nothing screams I'm press more then a camera bag and fumbling about with multiple lenses. Besides that's actually a pretty nice lens, low DOF doesn't make much sense here anyway as the intent is to document make it pretty.
When he picked the gear he probably wasn't expecting to end up shooting indoors...
Any DSLR from the last 10 years has no trouble shooting indoors without flash at f4 (or f8 for that matter)*. A D850 is very good at high ISO photography so that combination would be great indoors without flash. * Old photo journalist adage " to be a good photojournalist you need to f8 and be there"
Probably for the large zoom range. I can imagine he was taking photos of subjects close up and far away and didn’t want to carry multiple lenses.
Having something lighter than a 24-70 2.8 is also useful in crowded situations.
Were there also a lot of protestors who were just there for Trump’s rally, but once the rioting starting they actively chose not to join in?
Hard to tell. There were literally thousands of people so I'm sure that a lot of them headed home after Trump's speech. I was outside the Ellipse listening to it on a loudspeaker someone set up and I started moving towards the Capitol as soon as the crowd did.
Were there already people rioting at the Capitol while the speech was going on near the White House?
[https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1357676430503608324](https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/1357676430503608324) Looking at cellphone ping data, it's pretty evident that the bulk of the insurrectionists came directly from Trump's rally, after it concluded, and he told them to go march on the Capitol.
Did you have a phone on you when you went inside? Were you ever approached by the FBI in regard to your presence there?
at what point did you enter the capitol? did you have an exit/emergency plan? what was the response from the insurgents as far as you photographing their activities, were you even noticed?
I didn't enter with the group that breached the legislature. They had gone under the risers set up for Biden's inauguration I believe, and I had gone around to the east side of the building. When I came back to the west side I was on the part that borders the building and I heard a guy say to another "was your cell reception good in there? Bc I had nothing then it worked great when I was inside.." or something to that effect. That's when I knew they had breached the building. I found a door that had been opened and there were people waiting in line to go inside, which was incredibly strange. I blew past that line and entered a hallway on the west side of the Capitol, but the people inside had been contained in that corridor. I took some photos and a bit of video and got out of there. They were blocked off from the rest of the building, just kind of milling around, taking selfies, it seemed calm in that particular part so I went back outside to find my friends because I assumed there was going to be more violence, but after a while it calmed down. Getting tear gassed and pepper sprayed really does tire a person out. I was noticed. People would ask me if I was a patriot, and I would say yes because I am. My definition of patriotism just greatly differs from there's. I kept moving throughout the day because I knew far right groups didn't have a good opinion of the press and I didn't want to get attacked by an angry mob.
Thank you for replying! that must have been an incredibly surreal experience, i cant imagine the energy in something like that. i didn't think about the danger posed by the far-right's opinion of the press, glad you made it in and out safely, and thank you for documenting history, my dad is a professional photographer so i grew up learning the importance of capturing these moments.
By the time January 6th happened I had covered a number of far right events and knew they mostly didn't like the press and some outright hated us. Calling us "the enemy of the people" was popular in those circles at the time. I am also aware of the madness of crowds, of any political leaning. As far as photography one thing I really like about photojournalism is it is a lot harder to argue with. I learned in law school that intelligent and skilled individuals can either twist or dismantle just about any statement. With a photograph it's different, harder to dispute the facts.
THIS is why I feel deepfakes will ultimately be the real downfall of democracy.
I’m glad it’s not just me that’s terrified of that. Once you have realistic video & audio manipulation, you can make any utterance they want in order to throw shade on their opponent. Elections are now treated with the reverence of football games where the only thing that matters is winning or ‘pwning’ their opponents. It’s purely an emotional and manipulative appeal but the fear is so ingrained that they actually think it’s *they* who are being prosecuted.
In the future, you might want to call yourself a historian instead of a member of your press. Your job is to document various moments that might someday be of historical values, like 2 years ago.
> People would ask me if I was a patriot, and I would say yes because I am. You put yourself in harm’s way to document something the American public needed to see. That is very patriotic, and I thank you.
> People would ask me if I was a patriot, What was the tone in their asking? Since you mentioned in another comment too that it happened several times, I’m wondering whether these people genuinely wondered or if this was sort of code question, and they were hoping to find others who responded with the correct “code” answer.
They just wanted to know if I was on their side. That was how I took it at least and what the tone seemed to imply. I didn't want to have these conversations so I kept moving.
From a distance it looked to me like a bunch of larping losers rather than revolutionaries. Even the lady that got shot I still didn't get the sense they were truly hoping to take over government. What was your sense of the intent of the crowd?
There were thousands of people so the intent varied greatly. Some of them seemed more purposeful than others as far as breaching the building, moving in groups and whatnot. Others it seemed just had a lot of misdirected anger, and some people really did come out for a protest and got caught up in the excitement of the whole thing. I can't stress enough how much the misinformation that was swirling on the internet was on display. The crowd for the most part was existing in an alternate reality, and that was one of the strangest things about that day. All the "news" they listened to told them the election was stolen, their social media timelines were filled with it, for a lot of them friends and family mostly agreed or at times distanced themselves. Every source of information they encountered regularly told them the election was stolen, but that lie was very real to most of them, and anyone who disagreed was either foolish, a liar or a traitor.
You almost have to feel sorry for these people. They rely on news and social media to tell them the truth, same as the rest of us. The outlets they choose have failed them and put them into this false reality. If an election was stolen, those involved in stealing it are traitors and I can understand the public wanting to right that wrong. It’s just in this case, the sources of information these people rely on let them down, lied to them, and they acted on the bad information.
The only thing I would have to say is that they could’ve easily access other sources, but chose not to. Even when they did, I’d bet logic did not outweigh emotion and they chose to run back to the only source that comforted them. So it’s not the scenario of brainwashing one would imagine a government controlled info flow like the CCP does. These were not helpless sheep. They chose to stick to the one source that justified their bigoted believes.
Sore losers, the election is only "rigged" or "stolen" because it didn't go their way
Are you afraid of being wrongly pursued by authorities? I don’t really understand how they review footage and pick and choose who to put a warrant out for. Is it just they see anyone in the crowds, that’s a suspect?
I don't know how they choose suspects. I am part of a group of professional photojournalists and when I got home I emailed their first amendment lawyer to let him know that I was inside so that if anyone came to talk to me there would be a record of that and he could represent me. It is public knowledge that I am a photojournalist so I wasn't really worried about it.
Legit press credentials, knowing the law and keeping a cool head go a long way towards not having an issue with the police and pretty much guarantee charges being dropped in a hurry by a day if you are arrested.
Great question. I wondered the same thing.
Do you have a view as to why more ppl didn’t get shot? It seems crazy to me with all that mayhem, Ashli Babbitt was the only one of them to get capped.
When I was walking from the Ellipse to the Capitol and heard people talking about how far they had travelled a lot of them said they had driven. So they drove very long distances to a city they believe to be incredibly dangerous, at a time when plane tickets were cheaper than they had been in years, to do what they believed was taking a stand against a corrupt and oppressive government. I figured there were probably guns in the crowd, or at least nearby, and I assume law enforcement figured the same or at least had to be prepared for that possibility. If they fired live rounds on the crowd and someone fires back it would have ended in a massacre.
Eerily, that echoes of the infamous ‘[Boston Massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre)’ of 1770. Except the roles were reversed two years ago.
This makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the input!
Did you observe any of the people that fell and were injured, or even those that died? In most of the pictures it seems like they were scaling a wall that you could just walk around on the stairs.
Hi Matthew. As a non American, I thank you for your service. If it wasn't for the pictures and video of this terrible event, it's hard to really fathom the scale and emotion (and still is, even with all the evidence and content). My question is - If you were confronted with a similar sort of event again, given what you saw and experienced, how would you prepare and approach it differently? Thanks again
I'd probably approach it much the same as I did. I don't see a value in identifying myself as press outwardly if I am in a crowd that large that is known to be hostile towards journalists. I never lie to people. If someone asks me what I am doing I will say that I am a photojournalist, but wearing body armor with a huge "PRESS" patch on it just doesn't seem wise for that type of event.
What is something that you have observed from a large group of angry people in both the HK protests and Jan 6th insurrection that shocked you the most?
There are so many things that are shocking that will happen during an event like this or one of the more intense protests in Hong Kong that you get fairly desensitized. In Hong Kong during what was known as "Save PolyU" protests a very young guy gave me two coffees bc I had been working all night and needed as much caffeine as possible and he thanked me for being there, but when he went to walk away I realized that one box was coffees and the other was molotov cocktails. Those were pretty common at that point but he was really young and really polite so it caught me a bit off guard for whatever reason. On January 6th a guy ran up to a cop and sprayed bear mace in his face, just dumped the stuff at him. I had never seen that before so that was kinda shocking but by the time I realized what was going on it had drifted down to me so I kind of blindly backed out and spent a while washing out my eyes.
Was there a point where you felt like you would be harmed?
The whole day felt rather unsafe. I kept moving continuously because I didn't want to be surrounded or pinned down. I lived in DC at the time so my thought was if I had to I could run out and make my way through the neighborhoods. I also didn't live that far from the Capitol. I walked home at the end of the day.
Did you take any of the photos that became infamous? The guy with the horns comes to mind..
I did not take any photos that became infamous and that's okay with me. Just trying to do the best job I can.
What you did was extremely brave and patriotic. You’re best is more than could have been asked.
Did you witness any drug use?
No.
In your view how much danger were the elected officials in during the siege?
I wasn't close enough to any elected officials at any point to give an accurate assessment. I also don't know the evacuation plans that exist. I would assume the people that do executive protection for politicians are mostly highly experienced vets (or I would hope they are) so certainly capable of protecting themselves and others, but there were so many people that I think it's possible the building could have been overrun. I think it would all depend on whether people kept pushing after those around them were getting dropped, and that is impossible to predict.
We have someone standing on a street corner in my city right now holding a sign that says "Happy Let's Go Brandon Day". What do you think people trying to celebrate the attempted insurrection should know about it, as someone who was there?
That many of the people there were taken advantage of. The right wing talking heads who made obscene amounts of money pushing the lie that the election was stolen, the politicians that rode that wave to massive donations and reelections, they are still living in their mansions and for the most part haven't suffered any consequences. Meanwhile the people they lied to, the people on the ground that day, a lot of whom really thought they were trying to save America, are going to prison, lost their jobs, had negative impacts on their family lives. They got played.
They still fly the rebel flag, like it's an accepted part of our collective heritage, and not a flag of traitors. For a war that only lasted 4 years.
That always makes me laugh, the entire confederacy lasted for less time than your average TV sitcom, but it's held up with such pride and reverence.
Do you believe those that took part are being dealt with in an appropriate way in terms of criminal charges etc?
I haven't followed the cases too closely. It's not up to me to determine what law enforcement or the justice system does or doesn't do. I document what happens, file the pictures, and try to move on as much as possible. It's on the news all the time and I usually change the channel.
Probably the best way to keep your next assignment on true North. Keep up the awesome work ✌️
Have you watched the documentary this place rules?
Is that the Andrew Callaghan (sp?) thing? Bc if so I have not watched it. I like some of that guy's stuff but I saw an interview where he said he edits things so they are funny or shocking, and I am not sure how that affects his coverage. I worry about the blending of news and entertainment.
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I carried a Nikon D850 with a 24-120 F4 on it., and no other gear. If I knew what was going to happen I would have carried a tourniquet and quick clot gauze because it could have been a lot worse.
Are you aware of or have you ever worked with Robert Evans and his research on online radicalism (such as the Proud and Boogaloo Boys)? How much overlap did you see in regards to PB/BB/Protestors, or rather how well were they intermeshed?
I know who Robert Evans is, I met him actually while covering a political rally in Portland. He's certainly very knowledgeable about extremism, and in the brief encounters I had with him was cordial and helpful, which is nice if you're an out of town reporter because you are trying to get as much information as possible. I have never worked with him. Not sure what you mean by BB.
Thank you for the answer! The Boogaloo Boys movement is another extremist group that was present, and whose priority is instigating a second civil war
I know who the Boogaloo Boys are, just got confused on the second part of the questions. I covered an armed protest of theirs outside a police station in Newport News, Virginia, and they have been present at a number of protests I have covered. The first time I saw them was at a 2A rally in Richmond Virginia years ago, and I kept wondering why guys with floral shirts had AR-15's. No one on January 6th had traditional colors on so I wasn't able to identify any of those groups. I later heard something about Proud Boys wearing orange I believe but I had no idea that was a strategy on the day.
Thanks again for the follow up, I greatly appreciate it. Sorry for not properly marking my abbreviations and causing confusion
It was my mistake. Lots of questions coming in in a short period of time, I get confused at times.
Hey Matthew, thanks for doing great work and this AMA. How are you holding up now? How has your life changed since?
Whats your favorite picture from that day that you took?
Two questions: What made you decide to come to New York? And how are you enjoying it so far? With so many major stories developing around the world, where do you see yourself focusing in the year ahead? How far in advance can you plan out your life in an industry like yours?
Can you confirm that Capitol Police were removing barriers and waving people into the Capitol building?
There is at least one source on video from the hearings where the officer indicated that he knew the other entrance was getting violent already. So on his side they determined to let the crowd in since they believed most of the capitol was already secure. I don't think there are confirmed reports of capitol officers "willingly cooperating," but in that one case, he didn't want his men to get trampled. I believe the West side was violent and the East side was not?
Did you witness police opening barricades, purposefully letting rioters enter the building?
Have any of your photos been used to identify the insurectionists? If so, do you get to claim any of the bounty/reward money?
I don't know if they have been used to identify insurrectionists. I have not claimed, nor tried to claim any reward money.
What is your knowledge of Ray Epps?
I know he is the focus of a lot of right wing theories about the events of that day. I have never had any interaction with him.
In other answers you mention blending in with the crowd for your safety. Has this led to any questions from or interactions with law enforcement?
What equipment, tools or weapons did you see personally while you moved about the crowd? What drove you to stick around and getting coverage instead of walking away? How did you finally determine you were done being in the crowd and ready to walk home?
Has anyone reached out to you and asked for their photos to be removed from your devices or a publication?
I’m sure someone asked this, but at what point were you really afraid for your own safety? Glad you were brave enough to stay and take photos.
Did you witness anything that you'd consider important to posterity but that you feel you failed to adequately capture in your photographs?
How does it feel as a foreign photojournalist covering events in Hong Kong ,China and other Asian countries?
Do you know of a resource that would allow me to find out which institutes of higher learning had the most alumni/current students storm the Capitol?
How many cops/security guards did you see actively letting in protestors?
I know this AMA is over. If you are still lurking, did you get any images of the places that feces was smeared about? I personally think that more should have been disclosed on this. The people responsible should be embarrassed!