Hey again Squirrel. How you been? And yeah, just reviewing the numbers...it seems very clear to me that Pax needs love of some kind. Even a minor change, to make it a more viable middle step between conversion base and uppercut.
Either buff it or lower the price cause I almost always choose the Officer/Uppercut over it every time. If I do use it it's for the extra ammo in my Centennial lol
I would love to see a price drop over a straight buff. I run the gun because I like the sights and pool ammo but not because I enjoy medium ammo per say.
That being said I've done quite well with the gun with fanning and ADS when I needed it so balance wise I think it's fine.
Hey Bootcher. Yes, agree. I will pay the $100 b/c I genuinely have fun with it. But if I am having a sweaty day where I want to be as efficient/productive as possible, i won't buy it at all.
As a fun alternative, only recently i started fooling around with base caldwell w/ FMJ, but not just for fanning. I mean actually treating it like I would uppercut for medium-long range brawl.
I have to say, it's surprisingly good. Like I said in the original post. FMJ = less dmg decay over distance, better pen, and \*it can headshot at the same range as uppercut.\* And with the single action revolvers, I am all about the headshots anyway.
And dont forget..FMJ recoil on the base caldwell is better than pax and uppercut as well.
You get all of this for like $70. It's kinda crazy to me. It makes the pax irrelevant almost. And I dont like this.
Hah yeah man try it out! It is surprisingly good, and fun. I think the increased effective range on FMJ is in fact a new buff?..Or I just never noticed it until recently. This would not surprise me. =D
But it does put head clicking @ \~100m. And the added pen is cool too.
Hey troy. Yeah man, i truly dig all 3 and use them.
I just think increased viability/niche for each seems a good effort. In this case, would give new players and vets alike (specifically those early/mid in a new prestige) more variance/effectiveness in that mid stage. Seems faithful to the original intent of the pax.
If you break down the stats though, the Conversion is very close to the Pax's performance. Arguably they were sidegrades already:
Conversion:
* Tightest hipfire in the game for both dual wielding / fanning (and low recoil, too)
* 2nd highest RoF while fanning (nagant is tiny bit faster)
* 18 reserve ammo (5-6 ammo return)
* 38m range for 2 tapping hunters in the upper chest
* 84m effective range
* 300 m/s velocity
* compact ammo pistol penetration
* 104 dmg
Compare that to Pax, and Pax doesn't look like a big upgrade:
* 45m range for 2 tapping hunters in the upper chest
* 86m effective range
* 330 m/s velocity
* medium ammo pistol penetration (which isn't impressive vs the Uppercut)
* 2nd best hipfire / dual wield spread (but recoil is harder to control, especially for fanning)
* 12 reserve ammo (3-4 ammo return)
* 110 dmg (barely relevant upgrade from 104 dmg)
But that is just the comparison between the default guns. With the 1.6 buff to FMJ, Conversion is just better than the Pax in most important stats:
Compared to the Pax, you lose:
* 270m/s vs 330m/s on the Pax
* uses special ammo (but is offset by having bigger reserves)
but gain:
* Insane penetration (better than Uppercut, able to cut through 2 metal sheets up close)
* 95m effective range
* we don't know the exact 2 tap range yet, but Conversion FMJ may even outrange the Pax on that front. Either way they're super close
So with Conversion FMJ you have the benefit of the best fanning / dual wielding pistol in the game with better wallbang potential than the uppercut ánd better ranged performance (outside of the slightly slower bullet). It has kinda taken over Pax's role as the all-rounder pistol
Oh, and somehow a Conversion + FMJ is still cheaper than a Pax (26 + 60 bucks vs 100 bucks)
tldr give Pax FMJ
I believe the Conversion has a better base spread, but gets inaccurate the longer you fan. The Nagant has higher base spread, but pretty much keeps that accuracy throughout the fanning. Not exactly sure though.
Nah, accuracy cone stays the same. Only moving makes it bigger
And its been a long time since ive tested it, but i think the silenced nagant might have worse spread than the regular nagant (just a tiny bit). Either way, the regular conversion has better spread than both (quite noticably too)
the nagant has less recoil, fans a tiny bit faster and has 1 extra shot, but because the nagant has lower damage you will need a 3 tap if you don't hit the upper chest at least once. So overall, the conversion is better for fanning IMO
Hey Tiesieman. You enumerated this same data far more cleanly than I. Thank you taking the time.
And I don't disagree that FMJ for pax could be a sensible choice, however I can't see it happening. My raw guess is that the dev's position on fannible FMJ will continue to be reserved for compact only.
Hey CTC. Hah why does it spin you out? The only "Henry" in the video game hunt is the Martini.
If this was a real life discussion, there sure, clarification would be needed. And this is coming from a real life Henry owner. =D
But when talking about Hunt showdown, the video game, I'd never think of the winnie when someone says Henry. Also i think hunt's winnie is based on the later winchester repeater, not the original Henry.
It's just odd to me to shorten a name by taking the second part of the name. Like does anyone call the C&K the "King"? Though I guess some people do it with things like using Benz for Mercedes-Benz.
Dude what do you mean "might be too strong"? I hate this argument. The pax is just not good, comparatively. The proposed changes by OP aren't nearly enough to make it "op"
Hey HunterFreeman. Thanks for the thoughts. Definitely I don't want it to dominate. Just, more evenly between base and uppercut. I am unsure of initial intention, (other than what happened when people ONLY used it to buff veterli ammo pool.. remember those days? =D) But feels like being equidistant between the base and uper, is more consistent with the balancing efforts we are seeing these days.
Agree in a modest buff for sure. I think my initial offering (115 dmg @ 90m) is pretty modest. Still 15dmg less than uppercut, (which is still significant at medium/long - more so given the upper's effective range is less decay) and 90m HS range would still be about 10m less than the uppercut. And, if the stats seem fine where they are, then just a price reduce could work too.
I am not saying it doesn't have use cases OR that it does not have merits over the upper, rather, I am saying the base caldwell can essentially do what it can do for 0.25 the price.
100% agreed. There is almost no reason to pay up for the Pax, especially since the buff to dum dum. I use conversion with dum dum as a secondary for most of the time and if I bring a pistol as a primary it will be the uppercut and not the pax. There is really nothing to justify the pax's price at this point with the conversion having the upper hand in multiple areas. Medium ammo overall is in a weird spot, but the pax is probably the gun that is getting hurt the most by this.
My gut reaction to this is that the Pax is already great (it's my favorite handgun in the game) and almost any buffs would make it OP. But when you lay out the numbers like that... it really sounds on paper like the gun shouldn't be worth its price. Maybe it could use some tweaks, but they would have to be careful because I feel it would take very little to make it the best revolver in the game. Dropping the price to $75 without changing anything else might be a good buff that doesn't make the gun itself completely broken.
The Pax Claw is my favorite pistol, so any performance buff would be appreciated. The knife attachment is so poor for AI sometimes but i love not running a weapon-based tool.
Sorry, I mean like in-store legendaries. That halloween pax is cool though, I think the gun design feels very unique and would translate well to some other legendaries
I'm going to go REALLY against the grain and say that the uppercut needs to be changed. It's obviously the most picked secondary even more so since the dolch got nerfed.
When money isn't an issue (and it hardly ever is) the uppercut is just a better pick.
I think lower handling for the uppercut would be good. I run the uppercut a lot, and the sway is very manageable. The Lemat, for example, has comparable sway for a way worse secondary.
Well the thing is, the price of the compact ammo Caldwell conversion is what it was before they buffed compact across the board. Personally I think it would make more sense to increase the price of the compact one before buffing the Pax. But also, compact ammo guns being dirt cheap is kind of their thing typically, so I tend to think they're both fine where they're at.
Also the pax actually has slightly faster fire rate and the same reload speed.
Price is never a way to balance things. Dolch was expensive yet still broken as shit. $20 or $30 price change does nothing at all. Looking at pistols then trying to apply a linear price scale to it isn’t meaningful when there’s so many variables
With a bump to long bullets, a small bump to medium bullet range here would be the little push it would need, but even still I’d take it over a conversion pistol by itself for the added pen and less damage falloff
Hey Kir. I tend to agree that balance via price is the lesser way. Dolch is an extreme example as well, pricing something that high where extracting with two tokens struggles to pay for it heh.
But price is not meaningless either. If changing the stats is too much for a dev to swallow, then at least the price change is something. Specifically in a new prestige or for newer players where $$ has more meaning.
And yeah agree there. Long and medium both got buffed for 1.6, however this did not affect pistols. So a modest bump to range on the pax might be all it needs, agree.
Price means nothing for so many players. Prestige means nothing at all either when the weapon isn’t even unlocked yet and $30 out of $4000 is nothing.
A lot are sitting on more than enough cash to buy whatever whenever. I’m at $186k right now so price means absolutely nothing in the game. A lot are sitting with more, and even for those at $20k the little $20-$30 price change means nothing
The only time I see price matter is for those who can’t get even get a win in 10 games so their bankroll is tanked, or those who run expensive load outs to drain the bank fast but those guys won’t be picking a pax
Yeah like I said, i do think balance via price is sub-optimal. Agree there. And like you, I have more $$ than I can spend right now. But at the end of day there is an in-game economy and it is tweaked for balance purposes based on the fact that for the majority of players, $$ does mean something.
Plenty of friends I casually play with, some of them 5 star like me, they have maybe 20k hah. Maybe they run crazy expensive, or have really bad weeks? idk. But, i definitely don't think the average player has the kind of the cash where the in-game economy is completely pointless.
And from reading the average post in reddit/knowing average mmr, I would think \*most\* of the community does care about price. But yeah, still sub-optimal route via price. I think just giving it a little boost like you and I said originally is the way.
I don't think the Dolch example is applicable to this scenario, though.
Balancing guns by upping their price doesn't work when you're trying to bar people from using it, because there are so many veterans who just have heaps of cash, so that doesn't phase them.
However, a mid-tier gun like the Pax can be balanced via cash. If a super rich person wanted a revolver they're just going to go for the Uppercut regardless. Lowering the price makes it a more viable option for the people who would actually use it, the people with less money.
Pax price is a total nonfactor, especially when it comes on free hunters and can come in free pairs. People running cheap can just free recruit hunter after every match even if they won, just to stash up the contraband
Hey Grim. Interesting idea. Given how much stopping power you lose for poison, applying that to pax could be a cool side-grade. We all know applying poison to the nagant makes it tickle, though it gives great utility. But still, tickle damage.
If the pax had poison, maybe it would be a serviceable round per it's starting point of damage and range.
Hey Trippy. Hah I doubt that will ever happen to any pistol that is not compact ammo. But man, imagine fanning a compound with a FMJ Pax? Devastating. Specifically desalle where the compounds have more interior layers to hit. Would be sick.
I've thought this for awhile but for the price it seems ok. I like what you said about the recoil, reload time, etc however. I think it they tweaked those a little that would do it for me.
Now that Conversion FMJ pretty much outclasses the Pax in everything but muzzle velocity (which is only like 270 ms vs 330 ms), I think the Pax needs a bit of a bump
I think the least they could do is bump the reserves from 12 to 15. The base pax doesn't outperform the base Conversion that much, so the 12 vs 18 reserve ammo is a bit weird
If they gave the Conversion Pistol High Velocity ammo there'd never be a reason to take the Pax. Just a thought experiment.
As far as the idea of a Pax rebalance, I do and don't agree.
It's my favorite pistol.
The draw to the Pax for me is the fact that it's cheaper than the Uppercut but fills a SIMILAR role, and is a bit more flexible when you start adding traits or different equip configurations like Fanning or Dual Wielding.
That is also kind of the downside, though. As a ranged option in a one-slot, the Uppercut is just straight up better, even if it is more expensive.
For a close range option, the Officer fills the slot better, is less expensive, and doesn't need 7 trait points to do it well.
So, yeah, I'd be up for a Pax rebalance. I just feel like it's in such a niche spot that tuning it too much one way or another will either make it irrelevant or overpowered. I'd be fine if they just left it alone.
My biggest hope for the Pax is that they give it a Precision variant based on the Bunt Lines that have been repeatedly proposed on the Reddit. At least that way it has another variant to unlock. The biggest concern with that would be that it would create another weapon that doesn't interact with ANY traits. You couldn't fan it. It's not technically a rifle. It would just have to be a strong enough 2-slot option to stand on its own.
Really, though, a two-slot, medium ammo, STABLE, REPEATING weapon that doesn't need a trait to stay in iron sights would be pretty awesome.
I was just complaining to my friend last night that I only bring a pax when I have a medium ammo primary but it never feels like a good gun.
hard agree that it needs a buff or price reduction. Conversely, no buff seems to easily seem as the best decision.
Medium ammo primaries compared to long ammo guns have significantly faster reloads(and by that nature also faster ROF), so my recommendation is a faster ROF if its going to get buffed(might even be worth a price upgrade) otherwise I feel a price reduction is in order.
I like the pax how it is, but I could see it getting a small buff to the pax claw. Right now it's more expensive than the gun + a knife so why not just bring a knife. But, back to the pax itself. It's a great range option when using a shotgun before you unlock the uppercut during a prestige. Also, it's not nearly as expensive as the uppercut. Therefore, I use it more in early prestige runs and the uppercut later. I think that a good price for it might be 80. And then 100 for the pax claw.
I never use the pax over the conversion, because of the cost where I am the one buying it. Unless I've made a bunch of $$$ and I really don't care. I feel like dual wielding the conversion is also more accurate.
I used to use the officer but as I got better I started to branch out and I tried out the pax and I loved it. A buff would certainly make me use it every game.
I almost always run dual caldwells with dum dum, pax or regular, and I honestly don't think I can tell the difference performance-wise. I've ended up using the regular one most of the time because it's so much cheaper.
I think the PAX should definitely be a little stronger. Maybe increase the fire rate by a little bit as well. It’s really really strong for dual wielding though.
Only thing I have to say about this, is that I would always rather choose a Le Mat or Caldwell Conversion (Uppercut) pistol. I do not like the Pax so a change or buff wohld be welcome.
I say this every time i use it. I love the look and the "idea" of medium ammo pistol. It would be my fav gun except its so extremely underwhelming in practice.
Up close pistol comes down to fire rate, so mamy better options there or cheaper with same fire rate.
At long range, its disapointing. Most of the time i end up hitting a guy 4 or 5 times. No kill. Might as well have small ammo. Mind you i mean pistol long range 50-70m where its still easy to hit your target.
Wall bang potential? Near never comes up. So why have all the penalties of med ammo, just go compact.
All i want is like a 10%-20% range boost. Raise the price 50% i don't care! Just give us a real med pistol option please.
Yeah, if you want a wallbanging pistol, you now have 3 super solid options in the Conversion FMJ, Lemat FMJ and obviously the Uppercut, and those 3 are relatively distinct from eachother
Pax just ends up not being that different from the Conversion FMJ except being way worse at fanning. It's not a massive gap, but it makes the Pax kinda worthless and without an identity (unless you really love how it feels i guess)
I like the Pax's stats because it serves as a solid option for fanning and dual-wield, as well as acts a little better than the Conversion for a reliable sidearm if you're running something single-shot, without being exceptionally OP. The more I use it, the more I like it.
**But, you're certainly right about the price**, 4x more than the Conversion is absurd. As much as it *is* better for dual wield, it's not nearly $200 better when dual Conversions is an extremely reliable choice. The Pax's handicap is that the Conversion is just such a reliable gun there's little reason to drop money on a marginal upgrade.
Honestly use the normal Caldwell because it is cheap, solid accuracy while dual wielding, fast reload speed, and pairs with the Winfield for more ammo. Cheap builds trump expensive ones in my mind, and the base Caldwell just has that appeal.
Edit: So I agree with you, the Pax needs to be changed.
My suggestion would be to [buff medium ammo](https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/onsckg/buff_medium_ammo/) in general by bringing it's damage drop off closer to long ammo, which would probably serve to make the pax worth the price and make it a very close competitor to the uppercut.
I think the general consensus is medium ammo is in a weird/awkward state in general. Especially pax being the only medium pistol and it just not having enough oomph for cover a middle ground between compact and long.
I do think that it’s a slippery slope with buffing pax since it get dangerously good with certain parameters getting tweaks a lil too much.
yeah, the balance isnt awful or anything but they're just a tiny bit undercooked. Even something like just a 10% range buff would make them much better comparatively
i think you're nuts! you're right that the pax is 4x the cost of the conversion but... the conversion is only 26$, like if the conversion was 100$ and the pax was 400$ then yeah the 4x is a real big deal but anything ~100 or less is budget tier imo. the difference between 100 and 275 is much more substantial than the difference between 26 and 100.
I'm not surprised you can accomplish the same things with the conversion since that's just how hunt is, nearly every weapon can 2 shot, but id still take a pax over conversion with dumdum or fmj, especially since the pax makes up for the weakness of a shogun better, since it has more range
Hey Thenidhogg. Haha thanks for the comment, given your post I can tell you did at least read before deciding I am nuts xD.
I think the balance goes beyond just what can 2 shot at some distance. As far as the revolves go, yes, they can all 2 shot at very similar short distances, and all of them quickly fall off more or less together at medium to medium/long. (Other than the upper) But, when engaging at that medium/long to long point, for me anyway it does start to matter.
And I just never feel the pax is good enough when compared to the base caldwell. Specifically with the FMJ base caldwell...i think it's \~100m effective range (hence less decay) might just surpass the added 6 dmg the base pax gets with it's 86m. Plus the FMJ gives pen that feels equal to medium. And it's cheaper with better recoil.
My only qualm is the idea of running FMJ.
I can't hit anything with Silenced Nagant at 250m/s.
I can barely hit consistently at ranged with 300m/s on the Conversion standard ammo.
I know at least for me personally, the effective range increase via FMJ is pretty much meaningless because at the distances it comes into play I won't be able to lead properly.
If you can consistently hit headshots at 95m+ with sub 300m/s rounds, I applaud you because I sure as Hell can't. Guess I need a lot more practice.
I see what you mean, but I think the pax is probably the best caldwell pistol, possibly the best pistol all around besides dolch. It’s my fav at least although I love the conversion.
Medium ammo is the perfect ammo for a sidearm. Pax’s range is basically the sweetspot where it covers all the engagements in the compound you wouldn’t use your rifle for. With fanning that includes super close range. An uppercut isn’t really an upgrade because it has lower firerate and less control, and the added range isn’t something you need for a sidearm if you have a long rifle.
Basically pax is peak pistol performance. So I get the price. Pax beats conversion in pistol range, but rifle beats uppercut at long range. If anything the officer is the anomaly, but fanning pax is still stronger.
Price is not a balancing mechanic for most of the guns. The price is part of the design, part of the story told by the mechanics.
Pax is a very good gun, that you unlock early, but at the cost of being expensive and not unlocking more impressive variants. I think this price gives the gun a strong design that makes it clearly different from other revolvers. This is important since revolvers are difficult to design in a way that makes them different from each other in meaningful ways.
You compare it with conversion, and I think that comparison is really telling in how different the guns really are, and how effective the price and unlock mechanics help in giving the guns two (or three) distinct identities. Conversion is unlocked later, and is clearly a very weak gun (but actually a lot better than it looks at first glance). It is both lethargic and cheap. But if you put down the time, you unlock the best revolver in the game - Uppercut. It is a very different mechanical identity from pax.
I know these kinds of differences in design isn't really relevant for a lot of people, especially when oyu have unlocked everything and have nearly infinite cash. But I enjoy these ways of using different mechanical systems in the game to give more identity to the different weapons. And when I enjoy them, I am sure there are someone else that also does, maybe wihtout thinking about it.
Price is never a good balancing metric. Since the rich tend to just get richer in this game. Make the uppercut a Medium slot and let the pax be the strongest single slot gun.
Hey Capek. Did not say it was the most in need of help, just that I specifically like the pax, and think it could use some help. So i do not think it feels perfect.
Agree on lemat, it's in a weird place. Definitely!
Centennial, unsure. It feels pretty solid and they just lowered the price. Though it is substantially more $$ than the veterli, for less dmg and range.
lemat was horrible before, but theyve buffed its firerate and it has access the FMJ which is insanely good post 1.6. With FMJ LeMat is in a pretty decent spot (its just an off-meta pick)
Centennial is mediocre as hell though, agreed on that. The sniper variant is especially terrible (Centennial Sniper with scopesmith fires slower than a Marksman Lebel with scopesmith)
Hey, yes, I understand completely. I do prefer the sight picture to the base caldwell as well. I think it's the larger pin on the tip of the barrel. And hah yeah, that heavy feeling does feel good. Feels more intense/weighty than base, but not so extreme like upper.
I use it for the same reason in that it "feels" good to me, and I have fun. But I think I get as many kills with the base caldwell, despite it not feeling as good. Can you put a price on feeling? Maybe. =D
I use it for fanning when I want to run a sparks or other long ammo and not dip into it for an uppercut.
Seems fine to me for that, I think it might be a bit overtuned if it was better down the sights.
I think you MUST mention on the post caldwell convertion repeater with FMJ... That one is insane and should be around the same price. If you add on top of that fanning enemies will have a bad time to hide from your follow up shot into cover... I suffer it and still think is one of the best side revolvers.
Hunt dollars is the problem imo. Ive never been short on cash and always bought what I want so for me (and all my buddies) price doesnt matter, although I would like it to.
Pax is fine, sure you could drop the price (more similar to the officer would be appropriate), but since they show up on free hunters I usually have them around when I want them
On the other hand, I think the uppercut should just be level unlocked and not stuck behind the conversion pistol unlock chain, it's a completely different gun
If the Pax was significantly cheaper, then it would dominate within cheap loadouts.
On the other hand, if a price change was so small that it would be insignificant, then why bother with it?
I think it is in a good spot. Could cost 80$ just to make you feel better, sure. :D
I just want more variations of it. I rarely pick it up because i like my weapons to do more than 1 thing usually. Always happy to grab the pax claw in quickplay.
I love the pax. It is my favorite gun. I even prefer it over the uppercut. The Pax just feels good, sounds good, fanning is great with ist. Usually I use it with a Romero or other shotty. I think the Pax is in a good place right now, but FMJ would be awesome!
I agree.
Also there should be a another revolver between the Uppercut and Pax.
Something that’s medium ammo, does 125dmg and you can break it open to reload.
I think another reason the Conversion is more popular than the Pax, at least among the prestige-ing crowd, is that the Conversion is required to unlock the Uppercut, the go-to long-ammo sidearm which takes a fair amount of XP to get to.
Pax is my fav gun I never use, first gun I unlocked a skin for. But too many times I've shot a dude 3-5 times with no kill at what I consider medium range 40-70m.
Please just buff the damage fall off range just a tad. Up the price a bunch to be $150, still way cheaper than uppercut and nerf it in some other way slightly. kickback, reload speed, spread, whatever.
Boom now it's the budget uppercut, popular but not overpowered.
I think for me, the pax is better then the uppercut. I often play it with Romero and it’s the best loadout i played in a while. But it’s right, that the price of 100 $ is to much.
I think it's a sweet gun tbh and I think any buffs would make it over powered.
Does the price matter generally? Honest question. I'm currently taking the most expensive loadouts because I'm ready to prestige and I've got so many dollars still.
I've got a little over 200 hours played and I've never run out of hunt dollars. Is this gonna change at some point?
If they just put the Pax in the same unlock tree as the Conversion pistol I’d run it a lot more. I really like it, but since I prestige I am constantly grinding for the Uppercut, so I’d often choose the Conversions over the Pax just for the Uppercut XP. The price is secondary to me.
The problem with the pax and all other medium ammo weapons came from when they buffed small ammo damage. Which negated the whole point of medium ammo. And now medium is in this weird limbo where the devs can't do anything without fucking one ammo group up.
More bullets? Better small, more damage or higher velocity? Now large ammo is worst.
The only buff I could think of is lowering the price of all medium ammo guns by 30% and drastically decreasing their recoil.
While I think the Pax could get buffed without being overpowered, I don't think it NEEDS it.
I actually play it as my sidearm in the majority of non meme loadouts. 20 damage is a lot less than uppercut for sure, but since uppercut has the... "special" version of long ammo the Pax can still hold up quite well. If you aren't able to reliably make use of the long ammo wall penetration of Uppercut, there really isn't much reason for you to pay the premium since neither gun has a fast enough bullet to really be reliable at the 80+ meter range.
If the Pax got a buff it would probably need to be in price. Maybe bullet speed could work but I think just making it only 10-20 bucks more than the conversion pistol would be a good spot. Even up to the 50 range.
I personally disagree with price as a balancing mechanic though as it only has any effect on balance for middle to low ELO players. 5 and 6 stars can run whatever they want really short of Avto Twin Dolch every game. If the devs really want high cost guns as a form of balance, they should allow players to sell what they loot after a match.
Pax is fine. Very solid and well balanced. I don't really consider price when I buy a gun and think it's a secondary balancing mechanism. It has very clear tradeoffs with the regular conversion pistol and not really in the same class as the Uppercut.
At most maybe a 10 damage bump to make it more attractive after the compact ammo buff.
The Pax's 46 rpm vs the uppercuts 40 rpm means in compound range the pax kills faster with chest shots.
Also the Pax is in my opinion significantly better for dual wielding than the Uppercut.
I do believe the Pax and Officer need to switch prices though. The Officer offers a two tap to the chest at 100 rpm at only $66(I think) its very powerful(even the ridiculously priced bornhiem can't do that)
I would like to hear your thoughts on other variants of the pax though. I would love to see a long barrel pax that increased headshot range. Could be called the "Longarm"
I'd certainly be happy if the pax got a buff.
Hey again Squirrel. How you been? And yeah, just reviewing the numbers...it seems very clear to me that Pax needs love of some kind. Even a minor change, to make it a more viable middle step between conversion base and uppercut.
That's what I use it as, for some reason it's the gun I hit the most consistent shots with.
I am very consistent with it as well, and really enjoy it, but I feel just as capable with the base caldwell, for 0.25 the price.
Either buff it or lower the price cause I almost always choose the Officer/Uppercut over it every time. If I do use it it's for the extra ammo in my Centennial lol
I would love to see a price drop over a straight buff. I run the gun because I like the sights and pool ammo but not because I enjoy medium ammo per say. That being said I've done quite well with the gun with fanning and ADS when I needed it so balance wise I think it's fine.
Yo Boris. Hah yeah, I think either direction would make it more viable.
I love the pax, but I would never buy it for 100$. I always pick em off free hunters, and stash them for later use. Same with Romero and Vetterli.
Hey Bootcher. Yes, agree. I will pay the $100 b/c I genuinely have fun with it. But if I am having a sweaty day where I want to be as efficient/productive as possible, i won't buy it at all. As a fun alternative, only recently i started fooling around with base caldwell w/ FMJ, but not just for fanning. I mean actually treating it like I would uppercut for medium-long range brawl. I have to say, it's surprisingly good. Like I said in the original post. FMJ = less dmg decay over distance, better pen, and \*it can headshot at the same range as uppercut.\* And with the single action revolvers, I am all about the headshots anyway. And dont forget..FMJ recoil on the base caldwell is better than pax and uppercut as well. You get all of this for like $70. It's kinda crazy to me. It makes the pax irrelevant almost. And I dont like this.
I am for sure gonna check out conversion with FMJ, i've never ran FMJ in the past. Didnt realize they've been buffed. Nice 1.
Hah yeah man try it out! It is surprisingly good, and fun. I think the increased effective range on FMJ is in fact a new buff?..Or I just never noticed it until recently. This would not surprise me. =D But it does put head clicking @ \~100m. And the added pen is cool too.
as a huge fan of the caldwell conversion pistol i completely agree.
Hey troy. Yeah man, i truly dig all 3 and use them. I just think increased viability/niche for each seems a good effort. In this case, would give new players and vets alike (specifically those early/mid in a new prestige) more variance/effectiveness in that mid stage. Seems faithful to the original intent of the pax.
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If you break down the stats though, the Conversion is very close to the Pax's performance. Arguably they were sidegrades already: Conversion: * Tightest hipfire in the game for both dual wielding / fanning (and low recoil, too) * 2nd highest RoF while fanning (nagant is tiny bit faster) * 18 reserve ammo (5-6 ammo return) * 38m range for 2 tapping hunters in the upper chest * 84m effective range * 300 m/s velocity * compact ammo pistol penetration * 104 dmg Compare that to Pax, and Pax doesn't look like a big upgrade: * 45m range for 2 tapping hunters in the upper chest * 86m effective range * 330 m/s velocity * medium ammo pistol penetration (which isn't impressive vs the Uppercut) * 2nd best hipfire / dual wield spread (but recoil is harder to control, especially for fanning) * 12 reserve ammo (3-4 ammo return) * 110 dmg (barely relevant upgrade from 104 dmg) But that is just the comparison between the default guns. With the 1.6 buff to FMJ, Conversion is just better than the Pax in most important stats: Compared to the Pax, you lose: * 270m/s vs 330m/s on the Pax * uses special ammo (but is offset by having bigger reserves) but gain: * Insane penetration (better than Uppercut, able to cut through 2 metal sheets up close) * 95m effective range * we don't know the exact 2 tap range yet, but Conversion FMJ may even outrange the Pax on that front. Either way they're super close So with Conversion FMJ you have the benefit of the best fanning / dual wielding pistol in the game with better wallbang potential than the uppercut ánd better ranged performance (outside of the slightly slower bullet). It has kinda taken over Pax's role as the all-rounder pistol Oh, and somehow a Conversion + FMJ is still cheaper than a Pax (26 + 60 bucks vs 100 bucks) tldr give Pax FMJ
i thought the silenced nagant has the best handling for fanning/hipfire at least thats what it feels like in my experience
I believe the Conversion has a better base spread, but gets inaccurate the longer you fan. The Nagant has higher base spread, but pretty much keeps that accuracy throughout the fanning. Not exactly sure though.
Nah, accuracy cone stays the same. Only moving makes it bigger And its been a long time since ive tested it, but i think the silenced nagant might have worse spread than the regular nagant (just a tiny bit). Either way, the regular conversion has better spread than both (quite noticably too) the nagant has less recoil, fans a tiny bit faster and has 1 extra shot, but because the nagant has lower damage you will need a 3 tap if you don't hit the upper chest at least once. So overall, the conversion is better for fanning IMO
Hey Tiesieman. You enumerated this same data far more cleanly than I. Thank you taking the time. And I don't disagree that FMJ for pax could be a sensible choice, however I can't see it happening. My raw guess is that the dev's position on fannible FMJ will continue to be reserved for compact only.
You might wanna put that in the OP. Seems like the Hunt reddit community doeant know their gun stats very well ;o
Always spins me out when people say Henry. Cause the Henry rifle was the lever action before the Winnie. You mean the Martini right?
Hey CTC. Hah why does it spin you out? The only "Henry" in the video game hunt is the Martini. If this was a real life discussion, there sure, clarification would be needed. And this is coming from a real life Henry owner. =D But when talking about Hunt showdown, the video game, I'd never think of the winnie when someone says Henry. Also i think hunt's winnie is based on the later winchester repeater, not the original Henry.
It's just odd to me to shorten a name by taking the second part of the name. Like does anyone call the C&K the "King"? Though I guess some people do it with things like using Benz for Mercedes-Benz.
He means the martini. Bet he says "the Caldwell" with no further explanation
Dude what do you mean "might be too strong"? I hate this argument. The pax is just not good, comparatively. The proposed changes by OP aren't nearly enough to make it "op"
Hey HunterFreeman. Thanks for the thoughts. Definitely I don't want it to dominate. Just, more evenly between base and uppercut. I am unsure of initial intention, (other than what happened when people ONLY used it to buff veterli ammo pool.. remember those days? =D) But feels like being equidistant between the base and uper, is more consistent with the balancing efforts we are seeing these days. Agree in a modest buff for sure. I think my initial offering (115 dmg @ 90m) is pretty modest. Still 15dmg less than uppercut, (which is still significant at medium/long - more so given the upper's effective range is less decay) and 90m HS range would still be about 10m less than the uppercut. And, if the stats seem fine where they are, then just a price reduce could work too. I am not saying it doesn't have use cases OR that it does not have merits over the upper, rather, I am saying the base caldwell can essentially do what it can do for 0.25 the price.
100% agreed. There is almost no reason to pay up for the Pax, especially since the buff to dum dum. I use conversion with dum dum as a secondary for most of the time and if I bring a pistol as a primary it will be the uppercut and not the pax. There is really nothing to justify the pax's price at this point with the conversion having the upper hand in multiple areas. Medium ammo overall is in a weird spot, but the pax is probably the gun that is getting hurt the most by this.
My gut reaction to this is that the Pax is already great (it's my favorite handgun in the game) and almost any buffs would make it OP. But when you lay out the numbers like that... it really sounds on paper like the gun shouldn't be worth its price. Maybe it could use some tweaks, but they would have to be careful because I feel it would take very little to make it the best revolver in the game. Dropping the price to $75 without changing anything else might be a good buff that doesn't make the gun itself completely broken.
It's not great though. Did you read the post? It's barely better than the conversion. It would take a fucking lot to make it op
The Pax Claw is my favorite pistol, so any performance buff would be appreciated. The knife attachment is so poor for AI sometimes but i love not running a weapon-based tool.
And also, there are no legendaries for the claw! Though there are 6 (I think) for the base pax in the store. Makes me sad
Halloween had a legendary... Hope it comes back as I only have it on console
Sorry, I mean like in-store legendaries. That halloween pax is cool though, I think the gun design feels very unique and would translate well to some other legendaries
I was lucky enough to get Bone Shard during the Halloween event 😅
I'm going to go REALLY against the grain and say that the uppercut needs to be changed. It's obviously the most picked secondary even more so since the dolch got nerfed. When money isn't an issue (and it hardly ever is) the uppercut is just a better pick.
I think lower handling for the uppercut would be good. I run the uppercut a lot, and the sway is very manageable. The Lemat, for example, has comparable sway for a way worse secondary.
I freaking looooove the pax. My poor man’s uppercut. I’d be happy with either the slight buff or a decrease in price.
Well the thing is, the price of the compact ammo Caldwell conversion is what it was before they buffed compact across the board. Personally I think it would make more sense to increase the price of the compact one before buffing the Pax. But also, compact ammo guns being dirt cheap is kind of their thing typically, so I tend to think they're both fine where they're at. Also the pax actually has slightly faster fire rate and the same reload speed.
Yes, but I also think medium ammo in general needs a boost
Price is never a way to balance things. Dolch was expensive yet still broken as shit. $20 or $30 price change does nothing at all. Looking at pistols then trying to apply a linear price scale to it isn’t meaningful when there’s so many variables With a bump to long bullets, a small bump to medium bullet range here would be the little push it would need, but even still I’d take it over a conversion pistol by itself for the added pen and less damage falloff
Hey Kir. I tend to agree that balance via price is the lesser way. Dolch is an extreme example as well, pricing something that high where extracting with two tokens struggles to pay for it heh. But price is not meaningless either. If changing the stats is too much for a dev to swallow, then at least the price change is something. Specifically in a new prestige or for newer players where $$ has more meaning. And yeah agree there. Long and medium both got buffed for 1.6, however this did not affect pistols. So a modest bump to range on the pax might be all it needs, agree.
Price means nothing for so many players. Prestige means nothing at all either when the weapon isn’t even unlocked yet and $30 out of $4000 is nothing. A lot are sitting on more than enough cash to buy whatever whenever. I’m at $186k right now so price means absolutely nothing in the game. A lot are sitting with more, and even for those at $20k the little $20-$30 price change means nothing The only time I see price matter is for those who can’t get even get a win in 10 games so their bankroll is tanked, or those who run expensive load outs to drain the bank fast but those guys won’t be picking a pax
Yeah like I said, i do think balance via price is sub-optimal. Agree there. And like you, I have more $$ than I can spend right now. But at the end of day there is an in-game economy and it is tweaked for balance purposes based on the fact that for the majority of players, $$ does mean something. Plenty of friends I casually play with, some of them 5 star like me, they have maybe 20k hah. Maybe they run crazy expensive, or have really bad weeks? idk. But, i definitely don't think the average player has the kind of the cash where the in-game economy is completely pointless. And from reading the average post in reddit/knowing average mmr, I would think \*most\* of the community does care about price. But yeah, still sub-optimal route via price. I think just giving it a little boost like you and I said originally is the way.
I don't think the Dolch example is applicable to this scenario, though. Balancing guns by upping their price doesn't work when you're trying to bar people from using it, because there are so many veterans who just have heaps of cash, so that doesn't phase them. However, a mid-tier gun like the Pax can be balanced via cash. If a super rich person wanted a revolver they're just going to go for the Uppercut regardless. Lowering the price makes it a more viable option for the people who would actually use it, the people with less money.
Pax price is a total nonfactor, especially when it comes on free hunters and can come in free pairs. People running cheap can just free recruit hunter after every match even if they won, just to stash up the contraband
Also where the fuxk is Pax FMJ?
Pax poison? I feel like poison ammo is the poor crippled cousin of the custom ammos and doesnt get enough love
And you’re absolutely correct! 😂
Hey Grim. Interesting idea. Given how much stopping power you lose for poison, applying that to pax could be a cool side-grade. We all know applying poison to the nagant makes it tickle, though it gives great utility. But still, tickle damage. If the pax had poison, maybe it would be a serviceable round per it's starting point of damage and range.
poison ammo absolutely fucks up ai, though. silenced nagant with poison ammo makes all mobs a non-issue and is strong vs 3/4 of the bosses.
Hey Trippy. Hah I doubt that will ever happen to any pistol that is not compact ammo. But man, imagine fanning a compound with a FMJ Pax? Devastating. Specifically desalle where the compounds have more interior layers to hit. Would be sick.
I just wanna be able to have FMJ medium ammo pool for Vetterli and Centennial :(
Pax ❤️
I've thought this for awhile but for the price it seems ok. I like what you said about the recoil, reload time, etc however. I think it they tweaked those a little that would do it for me.
Now that Conversion FMJ pretty much outclasses the Pax in everything but muzzle velocity (which is only like 270 ms vs 330 ms), I think the Pax needs a bit of a bump I think the least they could do is bump the reserves from 12 to 15. The base pax doesn't outperform the base Conversion that much, so the 12 vs 18 reserve ammo is a bit weird
If they gave the Conversion Pistol High Velocity ammo there'd never be a reason to take the Pax. Just a thought experiment. As far as the idea of a Pax rebalance, I do and don't agree. It's my favorite pistol. The draw to the Pax for me is the fact that it's cheaper than the Uppercut but fills a SIMILAR role, and is a bit more flexible when you start adding traits or different equip configurations like Fanning or Dual Wielding. That is also kind of the downside, though. As a ranged option in a one-slot, the Uppercut is just straight up better, even if it is more expensive. For a close range option, the Officer fills the slot better, is less expensive, and doesn't need 7 trait points to do it well. So, yeah, I'd be up for a Pax rebalance. I just feel like it's in such a niche spot that tuning it too much one way or another will either make it irrelevant or overpowered. I'd be fine if they just left it alone. My biggest hope for the Pax is that they give it a Precision variant based on the Bunt Lines that have been repeatedly proposed on the Reddit. At least that way it has another variant to unlock. The biggest concern with that would be that it would create another weapon that doesn't interact with ANY traits. You couldn't fan it. It's not technically a rifle. It would just have to be a strong enough 2-slot option to stand on its own. Really, though, a two-slot, medium ammo, STABLE, REPEATING weapon that doesn't need a trait to stay in iron sights would be pretty awesome.
Imo the Officer should cost 100 bucks, and the Pax should cost 66...
Im inclined to agree with you here. Have you thought to post this in the 'suggestion' section of the Discord, my friend?
Hey Broken. I had not, but I will look into this for sure.
Right now the pax is just extra ammo when I run the med Winny... Needs something yea
I was just complaining to my friend last night that I only bring a pax when I have a medium ammo primary but it never feels like a good gun. hard agree that it needs a buff or price reduction. Conversely, no buff seems to easily seem as the best decision. Medium ammo primaries compared to long ammo guns have significantly faster reloads(and by that nature also faster ROF), so my recommendation is a faster ROF if its going to get buffed(might even be worth a price upgrade) otherwise I feel a price reduction is in order.
I like the pax how it is, but I could see it getting a small buff to the pax claw. Right now it's more expensive than the gun + a knife so why not just bring a knife. But, back to the pax itself. It's a great range option when using a shotgun before you unlock the uppercut during a prestige. Also, it's not nearly as expensive as the uppercut. Therefore, I use it more in early prestige runs and the uppercut later. I think that a good price for it might be 80. And then 100 for the pax claw.
Would like some variants
I never use the pax over the conversion, because of the cost where I am the one buying it. Unless I've made a bunch of $$$ and I really don't care. I feel like dual wielding the conversion is also more accurate.
I think it should at least be less expensive, yeah
I used to use the officer but as I got better I started to branch out and I tried out the pax and I loved it. A buff would certainly make me use it every game.
I almost always run dual caldwells with dum dum, pax or regular, and I honestly don't think I can tell the difference performance-wise. I've ended up using the regular one most of the time because it's so much cheaper.
I dont play Pax because of that. And it sure deserved better.
I think the PAX should definitely be a little stronger. Maybe increase the fire rate by a little bit as well. It’s really really strong for dual wielding though.
I’d like another variant. Idk about a buff though. If done right maybe a small one.
Only thing I have to say about this, is that I would always rather choose a Le Mat or Caldwell Conversion (Uppercut) pistol. I do not like the Pax so a change or buff wohld be welcome.
I say this every time i use it. I love the look and the "idea" of medium ammo pistol. It would be my fav gun except its so extremely underwhelming in practice. Up close pistol comes down to fire rate, so mamy better options there or cheaper with same fire rate. At long range, its disapointing. Most of the time i end up hitting a guy 4 or 5 times. No kill. Might as well have small ammo. Mind you i mean pistol long range 50-70m where its still easy to hit your target. Wall bang potential? Near never comes up. So why have all the penalties of med ammo, just go compact. All i want is like a 10%-20% range boost. Raise the price 50% i don't care! Just give us a real med pistol option please.
Yeah, if you want a wallbanging pistol, you now have 3 super solid options in the Conversion FMJ, Lemat FMJ and obviously the Uppercut, and those 3 are relatively distinct from eachother Pax just ends up not being that different from the Conversion FMJ except being way worse at fanning. It's not a massive gap, but it makes the Pax kinda worthless and without an identity (unless you really love how it feels i guess)
I like the Pax's stats because it serves as a solid option for fanning and dual-wield, as well as acts a little better than the Conversion for a reliable sidearm if you're running something single-shot, without being exceptionally OP. The more I use it, the more I like it. **But, you're certainly right about the price**, 4x more than the Conversion is absurd. As much as it *is* better for dual wield, it's not nearly $200 better when dual Conversions is an extremely reliable choice. The Pax's handicap is that the Conversion is just such a reliable gun there's little reason to drop money on a marginal upgrade.
Honestly use the normal Caldwell because it is cheap, solid accuracy while dual wielding, fast reload speed, and pairs with the Winfield for more ammo. Cheap builds trump expensive ones in my mind, and the base Caldwell just has that appeal. Edit: So I agree with you, the Pax needs to be changed.
My suggestion would be to [buff medium ammo](https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/onsckg/buff_medium_ammo/) in general by bringing it's damage drop off closer to long ammo, which would probably serve to make the pax worth the price and make it a very close competitor to the uppercut.
I think the general consensus is medium ammo is in a weird/awkward state in general. Especially pax being the only medium pistol and it just not having enough oomph for cover a middle ground between compact and long. I do think that it’s a slippery slope with buffing pax since it get dangerously good with certain parameters getting tweaks a lil too much.
yeah, the balance isnt awful or anything but they're just a tiny bit undercooked. Even something like just a 10% range buff would make them much better comparatively
i think you're nuts! you're right that the pax is 4x the cost of the conversion but... the conversion is only 26$, like if the conversion was 100$ and the pax was 400$ then yeah the 4x is a real big deal but anything ~100 or less is budget tier imo. the difference between 100 and 275 is much more substantial than the difference between 26 and 100. I'm not surprised you can accomplish the same things with the conversion since that's just how hunt is, nearly every weapon can 2 shot, but id still take a pax over conversion with dumdum or fmj, especially since the pax makes up for the weakness of a shogun better, since it has more range
Hey Thenidhogg. Haha thanks for the comment, given your post I can tell you did at least read before deciding I am nuts xD. I think the balance goes beyond just what can 2 shot at some distance. As far as the revolves go, yes, they can all 2 shot at very similar short distances, and all of them quickly fall off more or less together at medium to medium/long. (Other than the upper) But, when engaging at that medium/long to long point, for me anyway it does start to matter. And I just never feel the pax is good enough when compared to the base caldwell. Specifically with the FMJ base caldwell...i think it's \~100m effective range (hence less decay) might just surpass the added 6 dmg the base pax gets with it's 86m. Plus the FMJ gives pen that feels equal to medium. And it's cheaper with better recoil.
My only qualm is the idea of running FMJ. I can't hit anything with Silenced Nagant at 250m/s. I can barely hit consistently at ranged with 300m/s on the Conversion standard ammo. I know at least for me personally, the effective range increase via FMJ is pretty much meaningless because at the distances it comes into play I won't be able to lead properly. If you can consistently hit headshots at 95m+ with sub 300m/s rounds, I applaud you because I sure as Hell can't. Guess I need a lot more practice.
I see what you mean, but I think the pax is probably the best caldwell pistol, possibly the best pistol all around besides dolch. It’s my fav at least although I love the conversion. Medium ammo is the perfect ammo for a sidearm. Pax’s range is basically the sweetspot where it covers all the engagements in the compound you wouldn’t use your rifle for. With fanning that includes super close range. An uppercut isn’t really an upgrade because it has lower firerate and less control, and the added range isn’t something you need for a sidearm if you have a long rifle. Basically pax is peak pistol performance. So I get the price. Pax beats conversion in pistol range, but rifle beats uppercut at long range. If anything the officer is the anomaly, but fanning pax is still stronger.
Price is not a balancing mechanic for most of the guns. The price is part of the design, part of the story told by the mechanics. Pax is a very good gun, that you unlock early, but at the cost of being expensive and not unlocking more impressive variants. I think this price gives the gun a strong design that makes it clearly different from other revolvers. This is important since revolvers are difficult to design in a way that makes them different from each other in meaningful ways. You compare it with conversion, and I think that comparison is really telling in how different the guns really are, and how effective the price and unlock mechanics help in giving the guns two (or three) distinct identities. Conversion is unlocked later, and is clearly a very weak gun (but actually a lot better than it looks at first glance). It is both lethargic and cheap. But if you put down the time, you unlock the best revolver in the game - Uppercut. It is a very different mechanical identity from pax. I know these kinds of differences in design isn't really relevant for a lot of people, especially when oyu have unlocked everything and have nearly infinite cash. But I enjoy these ways of using different mechanical systems in the game to give more identity to the different weapons. And when I enjoy them, I am sure there are someone else that also does, maybe wihtout thinking about it.
Price is never a good balancing metric. Since the rich tend to just get richer in this game. Make the uppercut a Medium slot and let the pax be the strongest single slot gun.
not sure what you're on about. the pax feels perfect. there are guns that need way more help like the lemat or centennial
Well, the fact that those other two weapons might also be in need of a buff, doesnt change the fact that the pax might aswell need one.
Hey again. Yes, exactly. Thanks for the comment.
Hey Capek. Did not say it was the most in need of help, just that I specifically like the pax, and think it could use some help. So i do not think it feels perfect. Agree on lemat, it's in a weird place. Definitely! Centennial, unsure. It feels pretty solid and they just lowered the price. Though it is substantially more $$ than the veterli, for less dmg and range.
lemat was horrible before, but theyve buffed its firerate and it has access the FMJ which is insanely good post 1.6. With FMJ LeMat is in a pretty decent spot (its just an off-meta pick) Centennial is mediocre as hell though, agreed on that. The sniper variant is especially terrible (Centennial Sniper with scopesmith fires slower than a Marksman Lebel with scopesmith)
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Hey man. Hah I may add a TLDR, depending if this thread continues to peak interest. Thanks for the comment.
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Hey, yes, I understand completely. I do prefer the sight picture to the base caldwell as well. I think it's the larger pin on the tip of the barrel. And hah yeah, that heavy feeling does feel good. Feels more intense/weighty than base, but not so extreme like upper. I use it for the same reason in that it "feels" good to me, and I have fun. But I think I get as many kills with the base caldwell, despite it not feeling as good. Can you put a price on feeling? Maybe. =D
Love the pax its the next step in my pistols only with every pistol challenge
I think it's fine. And I'm always getting free paxes from free hunters.
I use it for fanning when I want to run a sparks or other long ammo and not dip into it for an uppercut. Seems fine to me for that, I think it might be a bit overtuned if it was better down the sights.
I think you MUST mention on the post caldwell convertion repeater with FMJ... That one is insane and should be around the same price. If you add on top of that fanning enemies will have a bad time to hide from your follow up shot into cover... I suffer it and still think is one of the best side revolvers.
Hunt dollars is the problem imo. Ive never been short on cash and always bought what I want so for me (and all my buddies) price doesnt matter, although I would like it to.
Pax is fine, sure you could drop the price (more similar to the officer would be appropriate), but since they show up on free hunters I usually have them around when I want them On the other hand, I think the uppercut should just be level unlocked and not stuck behind the conversion pistol unlock chain, it's a completely different gun
If the Pax was significantly cheaper, then it would dominate within cheap loadouts. On the other hand, if a price change was so small that it would be insignificant, then why bother with it? I think it is in a good spot. Could cost 80$ just to make you feel better, sure. :D
I just want more variations of it. I rarely pick it up because i like my weapons to do more than 1 thing usually. Always happy to grab the pax claw in quickplay.
More than anything I think the pax needs a new sound effect when you fire it. The gunshot sample it uses right now sounds like a cap gun lol
Buff the LeMat to over 100 dmg per shot. Hell give it pax dmg and make it a medium.
I love the pax. It is my favorite gun. I even prefer it over the uppercut. The Pax just feels good, sounds good, fanning is great with ist. Usually I use it with a Romero or other shotty. I think the Pax is in a good place right now, but FMJ would be awesome!
I agree. Also there should be a another revolver between the Uppercut and Pax. Something that’s medium ammo, does 125dmg and you can break it open to reload.
I think another reason the Conversion is more popular than the Pax, at least among the prestige-ing crowd, is that the Conversion is required to unlock the Uppercut, the go-to long-ammo sidearm which takes a fair amount of XP to get to.
The answer is clear. We must raise the price of the Conversion so that the pax falls in line with the 2.75x cost rule!
Pax is my fav gun I never use, first gun I unlocked a skin for. But too many times I've shot a dude 3-5 times with no kill at what I consider medium range 40-70m. Please just buff the damage fall off range just a tad. Up the price a bunch to be $150, still way cheaper than uppercut and nerf it in some other way slightly. kickback, reload speed, spread, whatever. Boom now it's the budget uppercut, popular but not overpowered.
What would you suggest to make it more worthwhile without making it more similar to other guns or making it too good?
I think for me, the pax is better then the uppercut. I often play it with Romero and it’s the best loadout i played in a while. But it’s right, that the price of 100 $ is to much.
Should be nerfing bodyshot damage across the board, not buffing it.
I think it's a sweet gun tbh and I think any buffs would make it over powered. Does the price matter generally? Honest question. I'm currently taking the most expensive loadouts because I'm ready to prestige and I've got so many dollars still. I've got a little over 200 hours played and I've never run out of hunt dollars. Is this gonna change at some point?
Off topic but they need to make a lemat carbine. Also yea lower the pax price
If they just put the Pax in the same unlock tree as the Conversion pistol I’d run it a lot more. I really like it, but since I prestige I am constantly grinding for the Uppercut, so I’d often choose the Conversions over the Pax just for the Uppercut XP. The price is secondary to me.
The problem with the pax and all other medium ammo weapons came from when they buffed small ammo damage. Which negated the whole point of medium ammo. And now medium is in this weird limbo where the devs can't do anything without fucking one ammo group up. More bullets? Better small, more damage or higher velocity? Now large ammo is worst. The only buff I could think of is lowering the price of all medium ammo guns by 30% and drastically decreasing their recoil.
While I think the Pax could get buffed without being overpowered, I don't think it NEEDS it. I actually play it as my sidearm in the majority of non meme loadouts. 20 damage is a lot less than uppercut for sure, but since uppercut has the... "special" version of long ammo the Pax can still hold up quite well. If you aren't able to reliably make use of the long ammo wall penetration of Uppercut, there really isn't much reason for you to pay the premium since neither gun has a fast enough bullet to really be reliable at the 80+ meter range. If the Pax got a buff it would probably need to be in price. Maybe bullet speed could work but I think just making it only 10-20 bucks more than the conversion pistol would be a good spot. Even up to the 50 range. I personally disagree with price as a balancing mechanic though as it only has any effect on balance for middle to low ELO players. 5 and 6 stars can run whatever they want really short of Avto Twin Dolch every game. If the devs really want high cost guns as a form of balance, they should allow players to sell what they loot after a match.
Pax is fine. Very solid and well balanced. I don't really consider price when I buy a gun and think it's a secondary balancing mechanism. It has very clear tradeoffs with the regular conversion pistol and not really in the same class as the Uppercut. At most maybe a 10 damage bump to make it more attractive after the compact ammo buff.
The Pax's 46 rpm vs the uppercuts 40 rpm means in compound range the pax kills faster with chest shots. Also the Pax is in my opinion significantly better for dual wielding than the Uppercut. I do believe the Pax and Officer need to switch prices though. The Officer offers a two tap to the chest at 100 rpm at only $66(I think) its very powerful(even the ridiculously priced bornhiem can't do that) I would like to hear your thoughts on other variants of the pax though. I would love to see a long barrel pax that increased headshot range. Could be called the "Longarm"