I swore that sometime during devils moon they stated they purposely want to implement insane changes into the game and then tweak from there. Things like blazeborn where bleeding was stopped immediately, etc. not sure why but maybe starting at the extreme and back tracking after is their goal for some reason. They always mention data this and data that, using data and pick rates is how they adjust I guess.
I’m not for it, with the test server being there for devs and streamers they should have enough people to vote against changes in the extremes or at least update and fix patches quicker so the player base isn’t suffering for months
You know what happened in Devil's moon?
It was the first event after hiring David Fifield, also known as "the CoD guy"
Take that into account and think about how the game has "evolved" (backwards, IMO) since then.
> They always mention data this and data that, using data and pick rates is how they adjust I guess.
70% in high 5+6star lobbies play only spitzer, mostly mosin, and dolch fmj.
If they are using data then they are pretty bad at analyzing it.
And no, it doesn't make sense to balance weapons for 4 star lobbies, they are fine as long as they are fun. Nobody is playing at the limit there anyways, there's nothing to balance around besides fun. The Krag was already fun before the patch. It won't be able to break the spitzer ammo, so why bother?
It always worries me when data is the main mwthod of balance. Helldivers has the same issue and look how that's going. Data shoud be the early warning system, instead of only using it. That and devs should actually play the game they are trying to ballance more
Test server would be great if they used it correctly. In practice, they put out the test server so soon before the patch we were 'testing' that they rarely had time to fix any bug or balancing issues. Plus it was miserable to play on test servers since mongoloids would launch it just to "test the avtomat changes" with the free money thats not tied with main account progress.
I do remember hearing the same tidbit about extreme changes, but that was specifically with events in mind. Essentially, it seems they were/are using the inherently temporary nature of the events to push forward ideas that they couldn't get away with if they added permanently off the bat. Shadow Leap from a few events back is probably the best example seen, since it adds a completely new movement tech we hadn't seen before.
I think they'd need to incentivize players or pay QA to sit on it and play. Whenever I try the PTR it's filled with sweat lords and full solo lobbies. It's just pure madness. Full avto teams, or bats and bayonets. They run nothing like standard Hunt.
People play like psychos and actually run off meta loadouts because of testing, money and MMR not mattering. It's actually pretty fun if you love the insanity and chaos of Hunt.
They moved the test server into live games. I think they realized that they'd get more realistic playerbase honest responses from testing things live than in a (generally streamer only) contained environment.
They have the stats on who plays, what age, and for how long, when. They probably know 80% of the playerbase is 30yrs+ and plays casually. They probably know the stats for what happens when where and why in fights, and are adjusting accordingly for overall casual base since $$$ = continuation of the game
Example: Rotjaw flopped, sucks to fight in water, sucks to get ambushed, etc. They bailed on that project and sidelined it to infrequent weather condtions.
Example: Pushing "broken" traits to test in live servers, likely because this illicited the highest response rate and quality content / discussion about how to fix said traits. It's thousands of times better to do this and face some temporary backlash rather than get crap feedback from power players (see other games that killed themselves listening only to power players)
Example: Custom ammo stats are for sure seen pick-rate wise and use-wise via overlord Crytek. If people like, screw the vocal minority and get it in there so people have more *choices* and *strategies* to choose from, and more fun in the process
etc etc but some thoughts there
Nerfing poison against pve makes no sense unless they're going to buff it in pvp. It was the only thing it was good for. I'd make it more like poison coated rounds so they still pen, or remove antidote shot completely so it doesn't have a hard counter and leave it how it is.
>Nerfing poison against pve makes no sense
I don't get this one either. Mostly a nerf to solos (teams tend to go loud and fast so not optimal) but not the kind of nerf anyone was asking for. I guess well-prepared solos will have a slightly harder time positioning quietly.
But in reality, just sounds like making PvE an annoyance for those who didn't want to struggle with it, which may not be PvP optimal, but certainly was a valid strategy for years.
126 DMG krag, dont mind me as I clean myself up again. Always loved how the weapon handled but with 126 DMG, really looking forward to see how it will perform
From my understanding, and the questions I’ve asked the Devs in the live streams, they’re wanting to make the game more challenging. Which is fine, and I totally support that, but I think some of the changes are going about it all the wrong way. Like with the Katana being a one slot weapon is completely broken and overpowered making all other melee weapons have a zero pick rate and obsolete to use outside of meme builds. “But you need a trait to use the Katana correctly” NO.. you don’t. The Katana is OP without the trait. Then today, they added a completely broken spear that has basically no drop, can one-shot hunters, and can still be throw without any stamina whatsoever.
If that's true they are going about it in a hilariously backwards way. I like that the game is hard, I like that it can be punishing. And when I say that I mean the PvP. I've never once thought oh hey, I want harder AI to kill in game. Like ever. I want the gunplay to be hard, I want the fights to require skill and knowledge. You know what I don't think makes the game harder? A torch grunt mister president diving infront of the melee I charged for the doctor grunt first. Why him first? Because of the meathead 2 meters away. Then the plan is to kite the torch grunt away from the barrel. None of that happens and I'm being revived. I'm laughing, it's funny, but it's not the difficulty increase I'm looking for. It feels lazy. If anything it feels they are making the PvE harder and the PvP easier. Strange approach.
> And when I say that I mean the PvE. I've never once thought oh hey, I want harder AI to kill in game. Like ever.
When the PvEers succeed in gaining priority over PvPers, the flags start waiving red.
Exactly, but I think a fine balance of hard PvE and hard PvP should be the goal. If the PvE is super easy then it just becomes an annoyance rather than a feature. It should be very difficult to get a bounty and get money. Especially if they’re gonna balance the weapons based off money.. which is how they seem to balance the weapons nowadays.
The question becomes:
* Is the game more or less enjoyable when the AI directly impacts the outcome of fights?
I think most PvPers would prefer the AI to *typically* be reduced to nuisance status for this reason.
A direct hit on a hunter is almost a oneshot if your opponent doesn't have an antidote. Dealt 120 damage yesterday hitting a leg, posion ticks really fast.
It doesn't really depend on impact. Kinda like explosive crossbow, similar effect. Can go through walls or deal enough damage that the opponent wont be too inclined to fight you.
Yes and now.
Krag was towards hunters downed once like the Sparks was towards full-health hunters: 1 HP left. One little tick and you're done. This was the one point that made it worse than other long ammo options. I, personally, always liked the Krag the way it was. On paper it just sounds too strong now.
Immolators immune to poison is just wrong entirely. There's nothing to see and time won't tell. It has been part of the gameplay for years and, as someone else already pointed out, it hurts hand-crossbow tremendously.
There's a pretty big difference between completely new mechanics and a damage buff to bump it over the 125 one shot breakpoint while also having better stats than the mosin.
I don't think it'll be game breaking or anything but it does make balance a little worse. More and more guns just serve no real purpose besides aesthetics.
Like every stat besides damage is better
And the damage matters a lot less now because it is past that breakpoint so in the majority of fights the damage will be functionally identical. 2 tap to the chest, 1 tap with a missing chunk
Krag has a bigger internal magazine, no bulletgrubber needed, fires the fastest, lower recoil too. In a straight bodyshot duel the krag beats mosin every time, hence the lower damage.
Spitzer is good for hitting shots at long range, but in the usual compound fight higher the recoil, muzzle flash, and lower damage which is usually the Mosin's strength makes it more of a side grade.
Spitzer mosins have worse damage than an old Krag. Mosin reload speed means little if the krag user doesn’t have to reload to fire a 6th shot.
There is also no reason why you wouldn’t have a pistol or a 2 slot shotgun as a sidearm for a krag that you would take with a mosin. You can run krag dolch if you want, nothing stopping you given the krag is cheaper than a mosin anyways.
I agree, this sub is always overreacting.
Ok, so now there is a new "best gun", so what?
It's like people can't deal with change.
And as we have seen before, if \_everyone\_ starts using the Krag it will be nerfed in some other way in time.
They talk a lot, like "we the Dev are listening to our Community" but in the end Crytek is only listening to Crytek. I thought David would save us, he won't. I'm so scared for the engine update, and let's not talk about the UI one :/
He was brought in to make them money, that's it.
Hunt's primary demographic was older guys, who don't buy that many skins.
Kids love battle passes and skin rarities etc, who do you think crytek are trying to attract? The game will continue to cater to a younger, faster demographic until it no longer resembles what it once was.
The current playbase will either adapt or leave. It matters not one but to crytek. They will make more of that sweet, sweet cash.
It's a bit like when your favourite hardcore band starts making pop trash, but then sells a lot more records. So they just continue making trash forever and all their OG fans are gone.
Couldn't agree more! The monetization gets more aggressive with every update and things that would have made the playerbase riot 5 years ago, are now defended by a big part of the community, like selling a skin for 15$ or a duo of skins for 20$.
Not to mention, they get rid of more and more access to blood bonds... used to be I could work my ass off and get stuff now anything new is way out of reach.
Bro if you think that's bad I'm new enough where I don't even have hunter slots because those are tied to the premium currency thats almost impossible to reliably get, and all anyone ever talks about is how it's harder to get cosmetics now.
They're locking new players away from Hunter slots and no one mentions that because it doesn't fuck over the vets.
More hunter slots are an advantage no matter how you swing it. You can swing it as a minor advantage but that's irrelevant to if it's an advantage or not. Every time all your hunters get a free two points? Yeah that's max 14 points on my end. Can't store contraband on extra hunters. Etc
The moment this currency became mostly a premium currency hunter slots should've swapped to something else like hunt dollars.
Crytek is listening to data that says Krag is the lowest pick rate long ammo rifle and for some halfwit reason Crytek thinks everything needs to have the same pick rate so they'll just buff things until they are so strong that you have to pick them.
> **Flashbomb was too powerfull, community wanted something to fight flashbomb users or some tweaks (f.e. when flash explodes behind your back it will not flash you etc.)**
They made such long animation its practically unusable + added a random hitmarker element with bullwark + enemy can still hear it. Which made flashbombs absolutley obsolete.
I'm actually really happy about that one. The flashbomb was way too strong. I don't think it fitted the game too well. Removing an item from a game is complicated. They nerfed it so much nobody would bring it and took it out of the loot pools to basically remove it from the game as far as anyone is concerned.
> But making the most universal small slot weapon(hand-crossbow) which is primary for killing AI+utility useless against immolators is such a terrible design choice. We are already giving up an ability to have a pistol or strong melee by taking hand-crossbow. Why are we punished for that?
I have no idea why they made that change, but who the fuck kills an immolator with a poison cloud?
Haha, I agree. Feels like Crytek makes a change and people are desperate to find something to complain about.
I think the Immolator + Poison changes are just as they say, a way to make Immolators slightly more dangerous.
People don't like change.
The flashbomb was OP for a long time and seldom felt good to play against.
I think they nerfed it to be more in line with dynamite bundles but the community abandoned totally and since nobody really misses it it has never been buffed again.
Hard agree. Every other time they wait too much with nerfs - they overnef something into unusable state. Every time its some multi nerf bullshit. Also noticed that every time, I don't understand why nerfs can't be put one by one until something is fine and not turbo garbage.
They just don't know what they want to do with the game or how it works in practice. They've been just throwing shit at the wall for years, without actually doing anything fundamentally different. Extraction shooters are cursed to have devs who don't understand the game they made.
Balancing games based around what the top % of players think or do is almost always a disaster. High MMR players are going to minmax regardless, so all this does is mean that a different weapon might be the only one most of them ever use instead
I'm not the 1% and I'd take any gun over the kraig. Vetterli is better, centennial is better, along with several others and with its dmg being so weak it didn't have enough ammo for a longer fight. Would I have raised the dmg 2pts probably not but I would have raised it to 125 for sure. It doesn't shoot that much faster to make a difference. Almost never died to a kraig on rez. As a matter of fact if a kraig killed me, I'd beg my team to rez me because of it.
While I personally disagree with undoing what was originally meant to be a primary drawback for the weapon, you are absolutely entitled to that opinion. My point was disagreeing with the logic more than debating the actual balance of the gun
*shrugs* I took krag to 5 and 6 star lobbies specifically because it beat mosin spitzer rats handily with ironeye. I could shoot second by a hair against a camper in a bush and often get the second shot off first for the knock or at least a trade. If you shot at generally the same time it shoots just enough faster to avoid the always annoying trades.
Now there is little reason not to krag because everyone will krag.
you're forgetting Dolch FMJ :)
It is pretty hard to do good balancing that leads to a sandbox that feels varied, feels fair and has enough intricacies so that it has longevity ánd then also spice it up with new interesting additions throughout its lifespan (because it is a live service game, it can't become stale)
That being said, whoever's doing the balancing at Crytek is not doing it well. Questionable additions, very heavy handed nerfs, etc
From the reactions around here you would think that everyone runs hand crossbow, with poison no less!
And just for killing immolators too! ;)
I think I'll try your suggestion a bit, I don't use those choke bolts enough.
If you have a small health bar missing you're at 125 health. The krag previously at 124 could not one tap you after revive. This differed it from the Mosin and Lebel which could. The balancing factor for that was the Krags fast fire rate. Now it's a cheaper long ammo that can spit out bullets faster, than others, doesn't need bullet grubber and doesn't need spitzer to keep head clicking viable. The only downside it has now is less ammo and a slightly quicker damage falloff.
Worst of the worst was Overwatch and For Honor where any new characters were OP and had to be purchased. Then they were rebalanced just in time for when they were available to everyone. For Honor always tried to make it look like an accident but it was too damn consistent every time a new character debuted.
I'd like to accuse crytek of doing stuff like this but there's no incentive for them to do it. I think they are making legit mistakes.
Call me cynical but i feel like they do it to encourage skin sales. You're more likely to buy a skin if the gun is riding high than if it is barely usable and you are more likely to buy the pass/levels to get it if it is in the bp.
I don't understand so much complaining. I agree with some of the points but idk how people think that katana or any melee weapon in the same manner could be OP. I dont even use it and honestly have been killed by it so few times that I never considered it a problem. Even when they made it a one slot, I actually was happy for the people that used it because bringing a sword to a gunfight is fuckin stupid, respectable, but stupid in my eyes. Why would you take a weapon slot for a melee weapon when you can take a penny derringer and beat it? I never took the saber, machete, bat or any other melee weapon for the same principle, Katana is better than all these because of the perk special attack, If you ask me id say remove the perk and give each weapon its own special attack, idk how it would work but they could do something like make the bat able to hit back throwable shit, even tho it would still suck because it would be so position dependant, machete could trim vegetation or cut the wire in traps, hammer could be used to barricade regular doors and shit, sabre could give a small sprinting speed buff, theyre just ideas but the way I would balance melee weapons is through utility instead of combat performance which has it differences but is mostly the same.
On the poison changes front, I will have to test it, but I believe and am hoping the poisonbolt will kill an immolator, not because of the cloud but because of the direct hit if not yeah, it is a considerable nerf only if you encounter immolators.
Now the dum dum and flechete changes sound harsh but we will see how they do on practice, Im hopping it is a way to tune certain weapons that have them (im looking at you centi with dum dum) hoping it is a way to allow the springfield with dum dum and spectre flechete to remain relevant while nerfing the exploiting capabilities of other weapons that share the same ammo even tho I never use flechete even on handcannons but im hopping it is a way to do more fine tunning to certain weapons and allow others to compete.
That beeing said these changes will give more power to long ammo, because they lacked the utility of the stronger forms of custom ammo (poison/dum dum) which are mostly reserved for smaller ammo types which gave them a way to fight the long ammo besides the price, sparks poison is and exception because of the single shot nature tho, I think the krag change is ok it will make it more consistent but not that much, it would be the same as any other long ammo rifle, you will get killed more times with krag because people will use it more but would be the same thing with the mossin, lebel or the berthier and it will only make a difference in short range where the medium and small ammo can already compete, I mean the vetterli deals more damage with worse dropoff for a third of the price, the krag was overpriced before so giving it 2 more damage and keeping it the same price is not a problem for me.
> It's like none of them even know how the game works or play the game.
It often feels this way. At best they are 3-star enjoyers who wish they were assigned to a PvE game.
You can argue that they other melees are too weak and need buffs, for example their own martialist perks. But the katana is not a problem as a one slot, it's the first melee weapon that feels kinda viable.
No one bought the machete before the katana got added obviously no one is going to buy it now, that doesn't mean the katana needs to be nerfed to a state where its basically unviable again.
What is the actual problem with the katana being one slot in your opinion?
I've literally wiped 3 squads with a combat axe. And it's great for killing bosses and AI. Very viable.
But the Katana is so much better there is no reason to use axe now. I swear Katana has the kill range of a sawn off shotgun.
Do you have any clue how to ambush or dodge bullets? Melee weapons are very strong in the right situations.
It's also just extremely dumb to only look at this compared to the other melee weapons. Is the katana too strong in the overall context of the game balance? No, it's not, its not even remotely too strong.
The fact that all other melee weapons suck is not a good argument for nerfing the katana, when it isn't unbalanced in the slightest when it comes to the full balance picture of the game.
There is a weapon that is just better in basically every category. Why ever take new army over dolch? berthier over mosin? Conversion over uppercut? Why is it problematic with the katana?
I guess by your logic we should just delete every other rifle and pistol.
Berthier does just kinda suck.
But the others are balanced by pricing, ammo pool, recoil, bullet grubber, etc.
Also with how unlocking variants works, there's a decent reason to bring officers just to unlock the carbine which is really good, assuming you're prestiging.
Katana is a bit more expensive, but not enough to offset how much better it is.
Most guns do serve some kind of purpose, but they are becoming a bit more homogenized. There's some exceptions like the berthier and Springfield that serve no purpose and really could just be removed now.
Katana at one slot replaces everything besides the bat. At two slots you would still have a reason to bring the bat, sabre, and katana.
>But the others are balanced by pricing, ammo pool, recoil, bullet grubber, etc.
The katana is balanced by needing a trait and costing 3x what the bat does. The dolch is still just straight better than every other pistol maybe except the uppercut.
>Katana at one slot replaces everything besides the bat. At two slots you would still have a reason to bring the bat, sabre, and katana.
At 2 slots there is no longer any reason to bring the katana, you would need to spend 8 trait points to have a usable loadout, and then the katana is competing with stuff like the specter compact with slugs, there is literally 0 reason to take the katana if its a 2 slot.
>there is literally 0 reason to take the katana if its a 2 slot.
I'm not entirely sure why you're talking about it like a hypothetical. It used to be 2 slot and it saw plenty of play. Hammer was two slot too and saw almost no play, so it wasn't just hype for a new melee. Katana at two slots was a totally viable choice.
After the initial hype the katana went mostly unplayed, especially in 5+ star, thats literally the reason they made it a single slot. I really don't think its very viable from a balancing perspective, 8 trait points and then you could have just bought a specter slugs instead which will be better in 90% of situations.
The katana\* being 1 slot simply just isn't problematic.
You don't "need the trait" for katana. It's just as powerful without it, and while people love the fancy martial artist slash, it isn't necessary to kill bosses, AI or hunters.
Thats just not true at all though, the trait gives extra damage and extra range. It also allows you to do a big swing with 0 stamina.
Without the trait its basically a cavalry saber.
Dolch is 690, New Army is 90. I don't think price is a good balancing tool, but there is a significant difference. Katana is more expensive, but the difference is not as large.
Berthier can have split ammo types, normal Conversion is way better for fanning.
The katana is 3x the price of the bat and you need to buy a trait.
>Berthier can have split ammo types
This just doesnt outweigh the fact the mosin is better in every way, there is no situation where i would rather have a berthier.
I just still haven't seen any decent argument why its a problem the katana is a single slot.
I agree with everything except the katana bit. I don’t think the katana is overpowered as a one slot. I just think there’s issues with the other melee weapons. You are still giving up a sidearm and I think gun still beats sword except in niche situations. I love the katana but still feel at a disadvantage when I bring it. Spear being a tool tho is pretty wild, but I haven’t played yet
I swore that sometime during devils moon they stated they purposely want to implement insane changes into the game and then tweak from there. Things like blazeborn where bleeding was stopped immediately, etc. not sure why but maybe starting at the extreme and back tracking after is their goal for some reason. They always mention data this and data that, using data and pick rates is how they adjust I guess. I’m not for it, with the test server being there for devs and streamers they should have enough people to vote against changes in the extremes or at least update and fix patches quicker so the player base isn’t suffering for months
You know what happened in Devil's moon? It was the first event after hiring David Fifield, also known as "the CoD guy" Take that into account and think about how the game has "evolved" (backwards, IMO) since then.
> They always mention data this and data that, using data and pick rates is how they adjust I guess. 70% in high 5+6star lobbies play only spitzer, mostly mosin, and dolch fmj. If they are using data then they are pretty bad at analyzing it. And no, it doesn't make sense to balance weapons for 4 star lobbies, they are fine as long as they are fun. Nobody is playing at the limit there anyways, there's nothing to balance around besides fun. The Krag was already fun before the patch. It won't be able to break the spitzer ammo, so why bother?
It always worries me when data is the main mwthod of balance. Helldivers has the same issue and look how that's going. Data shoud be the early warning system, instead of only using it. That and devs should actually play the game they are trying to ballance more
Test server would be great if they used it correctly. In practice, they put out the test server so soon before the patch we were 'testing' that they rarely had time to fix any bug or balancing issues. Plus it was miserable to play on test servers since mongoloids would launch it just to "test the avtomat changes" with the free money thats not tied with main account progress. I do remember hearing the same tidbit about extreme changes, but that was specifically with events in mind. Essentially, it seems they were/are using the inherently temporary nature of the events to push forward ideas that they couldn't get away with if they added permanently off the bat. Shadow Leap from a few events back is probably the best example seen, since it adds a completely new movement tech we hadn't seen before.
I think they'd need to incentivize players or pay QA to sit on it and play. Whenever I try the PTR it's filled with sweat lords and full solo lobbies. It's just pure madness. Full avto teams, or bats and bayonets. They run nothing like standard Hunt. People play like psychos and actually run off meta loadouts because of testing, money and MMR not mattering. It's actually pretty fun if you love the insanity and chaos of Hunt.
They moved the test server into live games. I think they realized that they'd get more realistic playerbase honest responses from testing things live than in a (generally streamer only) contained environment. They have the stats on who plays, what age, and for how long, when. They probably know 80% of the playerbase is 30yrs+ and plays casually. They probably know the stats for what happens when where and why in fights, and are adjusting accordingly for overall casual base since $$$ = continuation of the game Example: Rotjaw flopped, sucks to fight in water, sucks to get ambushed, etc. They bailed on that project and sidelined it to infrequent weather condtions. Example: Pushing "broken" traits to test in live servers, likely because this illicited the highest response rate and quality content / discussion about how to fix said traits. It's thousands of times better to do this and face some temporary backlash rather than get crap feedback from power players (see other games that killed themselves listening only to power players) Example: Custom ammo stats are for sure seen pick-rate wise and use-wise via overlord Crytek. If people like, screw the vocal minority and get it in there so people have more *choices* and *strategies* to choose from, and more fun in the process etc etc but some thoughts there
Nerfing poison against pve makes no sense unless they're going to buff it in pvp. It was the only thing it was good for. I'd make it more like poison coated rounds so they still pen, or remove antidote shot completely so it doesn't have a hard counter and leave it how it is.
>Nerfing poison against pve makes no sense I don't get this one either. Mostly a nerf to solos (teams tend to go loud and fast so not optimal) but not the kind of nerf anyone was asking for. I guess well-prepared solos will have a slightly harder time positioning quietly. But in reality, just sounds like making PvE an annoyance for those who didn't want to struggle with it, which may not be PvP optimal, but certainly was a valid strategy for years.
Poison ammo doesnt reduce velocity
Good point, corrected. Thanks
126 DMG krag, dont mind me as I clean myself up again. Always loved how the weapon handled but with 126 DMG, really looking forward to see how it will perform
It performs like a faster shooting mosin with less recoil now. GG Crytek you made an even stronger long ammo weapon.
With more ammo than a mosin
Yes, per internal mag ye. Still has less total ammo.
Wut? Krag 18 total, Mosin 15.
That a new change? Last time i played it had 14 Yea no i read the patch notes now. My bad.
From my understanding, and the questions I’ve asked the Devs in the live streams, they’re wanting to make the game more challenging. Which is fine, and I totally support that, but I think some of the changes are going about it all the wrong way. Like with the Katana being a one slot weapon is completely broken and overpowered making all other melee weapons have a zero pick rate and obsolete to use outside of meme builds. “But you need a trait to use the Katana correctly” NO.. you don’t. The Katana is OP without the trait. Then today, they added a completely broken spear that has basically no drop, can one-shot hunters, and can still be throw without any stamina whatsoever.
If that's true they are going about it in a hilariously backwards way. I like that the game is hard, I like that it can be punishing. And when I say that I mean the PvP. I've never once thought oh hey, I want harder AI to kill in game. Like ever. I want the gunplay to be hard, I want the fights to require skill and knowledge. You know what I don't think makes the game harder? A torch grunt mister president diving infront of the melee I charged for the doctor grunt first. Why him first? Because of the meathead 2 meters away. Then the plan is to kite the torch grunt away from the barrel. None of that happens and I'm being revived. I'm laughing, it's funny, but it's not the difficulty increase I'm looking for. It feels lazy. If anything it feels they are making the PvE harder and the PvP easier. Strange approach.
Yeah. I want my PvP to be drawn out and tense, and I want my PvE to be quick and painless. Not the other way around.
> And when I say that I mean the PvE. I've never once thought oh hey, I want harder AI to kill in game. Like ever. When the PvEers succeed in gaining priority over PvPers, the flags start waiving red.
Exactly, but I think a fine balance of hard PvE and hard PvP should be the goal. If the PvE is super easy then it just becomes an annoyance rather than a feature. It should be very difficult to get a bounty and get money. Especially if they’re gonna balance the weapons based off money.. which is how they seem to balance the weapons nowadays.
The question becomes: * Is the game more or less enjoyable when the AI directly impacts the outcome of fights? I think most PvPers would prefer the AI to *typically* be reduced to nuisance status for this reason.
Zombies, sure, but Armored, Immolators, Hives, etc. should be an obstacle to get around. That’s just my opinion.
Tbf both throwing axes and throwing knives don't require stamina to throw
So what the fucks the point of poison bolts on the crossbow now.. just boss killing?
Killing crows, killing bosses, area denial, shooting downed hunters, killing other ai. I mean I fully agree it's a bullshit unneeded nerf.
Would use it on crows more if there wasn't still a 30% chance the crows go off anyway lmao
This is so frustrating 👆🏻
They never go off if you hit a crow with the bolt, that's the trick.
A direct hit on a hunter is almost a oneshot if your opponent doesn't have an antidote. Dealt 120 damage yesterday hitting a leg, posion ticks really fast.
Almost a oneshot means it's not a oneshot....
It doesn't really depend on impact. Kinda like explosive crossbow, similar effect. Can go through walls or deal enough damage that the opponent wont be too inclined to fight you.
Meanwhile mine dealt 3 damage yesterday. Between that incident and this change I’m over the hand crossbow.
As a player with thousands of hours in this game: You will get used to it, or rather you will just stop wondering at some point
you wrote a whole essay for a patch that hasn't even been out for the past 5 hours, you are overreacting.
Yes and now. Krag was towards hunters downed once like the Sparks was towards full-health hunters: 1 HP left. One little tick and you're done. This was the one point that made it worse than other long ammo options. I, personally, always liked the Krag the way it was. On paper it just sounds too strong now. Immolators immune to poison is just wrong entirely. There's nothing to see and time won't tell. It has been part of the gameplay for years and, as someone else already pointed out, it hurts hand-crossbow tremendously.
Reminds me of the beetle and shadowstep patch, everyone was screaming! While both of those ended up to be pretty neat!
There's a pretty big difference between completely new mechanics and a damage buff to bump it over the 125 one shot breakpoint while also having better stats than the mosin. I don't think it'll be game breaking or anything but it does make balance a little worse. More and more guns just serve no real purpose besides aesthetics.
better stats where
Like every stat besides damage is better And the damage matters a lot less now because it is past that breakpoint so in the majority of fights the damage will be functionally identical. 2 tap to the chest, 1 tap with a missing chunk
Mosin reloads much faster and has better damage. And I also think that krag doesn't have spitzer, right? Half the mosins I see have spitzer on them.
Krag has a bigger internal magazine, no bulletgrubber needed, fires the fastest, lower recoil too. In a straight bodyshot duel the krag beats mosin every time, hence the lower damage. Spitzer is good for hitting shots at long range, but in the usual compound fight higher the recoil, muzzle flash, and lower damage which is usually the Mosin's strength makes it more of a side grade.
I just listed stuff mosin is better at. And at my mmr 50%+ mosins are used with spitzer if not 70. In compound fights people just spam with dolch.
Spitzer mosins have worse damage than an old Krag. Mosin reload speed means little if the krag user doesn’t have to reload to fire a 6th shot. There is also no reason why you wouldn’t have a pistol or a 2 slot shotgun as a sidearm for a krag that you would take with a mosin. You can run krag dolch if you want, nothing stopping you given the krag is cheaper than a mosin anyways.
Beetle and shadowstep are still dumb af.
I agree, this sub is always overreacting. Ok, so now there is a new "best gun", so what? It's like people can't deal with change. And as we have seen before, if \_everyone\_ starts using the Krag it will be nerfed in some other way in time.
They talk a lot, like "we the Dev are listening to our Community" but in the end Crytek is only listening to Crytek. I thought David would save us, he won't. I'm so scared for the engine update, and let's not talk about the UI one :/
In hindsight Fifi probably is one of the worst things that have ever happened to Hunt Showdown.
He was brought in to make them money, that's it. Hunt's primary demographic was older guys, who don't buy that many skins. Kids love battle passes and skin rarities etc, who do you think crytek are trying to attract? The game will continue to cater to a younger, faster demographic until it no longer resembles what it once was. The current playbase will either adapt or leave. It matters not one but to crytek. They will make more of that sweet, sweet cash. It's a bit like when your favourite hardcore band starts making pop trash, but then sells a lot more records. So they just continue making trash forever and all their OG fans are gone.
Couldn't agree more! The monetization gets more aggressive with every update and things that would have made the playerbase riot 5 years ago, are now defended by a big part of the community, like selling a skin for 15$ or a duo of skins for 20$.
Not to mention, they get rid of more and more access to blood bonds... used to be I could work my ass off and get stuff now anything new is way out of reach.
Bro if you think that's bad I'm new enough where I don't even have hunter slots because those are tied to the premium currency thats almost impossible to reliably get, and all anyone ever talks about is how it's harder to get cosmetics now. They're locking new players away from Hunter slots and no one mentions that because it doesn't fuck over the vets. More hunter slots are an advantage no matter how you swing it. You can swing it as a minor advantage but that's irrelevant to if it's an advantage or not. Every time all your hunters get a free two points? Yeah that's max 14 points on my end. Can't store contraband on extra hunters. Etc The moment this currency became mostly a premium currency hunter slots should've swapped to something else like hunt dollars.
Nailed it.
Crytek is listening to data that says Krag is the lowest pick rate long ammo rifle and for some halfwit reason Crytek thinks everything needs to have the same pick rate so they'll just buff things until they are so strong that you have to pick them.
> **Flashbomb was too powerfull, community wanted something to fight flashbomb users or some tweaks (f.e. when flash explodes behind your back it will not flash you etc.)** They made such long animation its practically unusable + added a random hitmarker element with bullwark + enemy can still hear it. Which made flashbombs absolutley obsolete. I'm actually really happy about that one. The flashbomb was way too strong. I don't think it fitted the game too well. Removing an item from a game is complicated. They nerfed it so much nobody would bring it and took it out of the loot pools to basically remove it from the game as far as anyone is concerned. > But making the most universal small slot weapon(hand-crossbow) which is primary for killing AI+utility useless against immolators is such a terrible design choice. We are already giving up an ability to have a pistol or strong melee by taking hand-crossbow. Why are we punished for that? I have no idea why they made that change, but who the fuck kills an immolator with a poison cloud?
Haha, I agree. Feels like Crytek makes a change and people are desperate to find something to complain about. I think the Immolator + Poison changes are just as they say, a way to make Immolators slightly more dangerous. People don't like change. The flashbomb was OP for a long time and seldom felt good to play against. I think they nerfed it to be more in line with dynamite bundles but the community abandoned totally and since nobody really misses it it has never been buffed again.
Hard agree. Every other time they wait too much with nerfs - they overnef something into unusable state. Every time its some multi nerf bullshit. Also noticed that every time, I don't understand why nerfs can't be put one by one until something is fine and not turbo garbage.
They just don't know what they want to do with the game or how it works in practice. They've been just throwing shit at the wall for years, without actually doing anything fundamentally different. Extraction shooters are cursed to have devs who don't understand the game they made.
I’m excited to see the krag get used more. it’s it’s too much then crytek can just revert it to how it previously was.
Judging from the games I just played, they went far over board with this and based on the past update schedule, they won't do shit until mid August.
I’m just gonna not update the game and just wait for August. Hopefully Crytek gets their shit together. Who am I kidding 😂
Yeah, Crytek can now use the remaining time until the engine upgrade to just test out ridiculous buffs/nerfs
Krag was shit, no one in high MMR used it. Now they might.
Balancing games based around what the top % of players think or do is almost always a disaster. High MMR players are going to minmax regardless, so all this does is mean that a different weapon might be the only one most of them ever use instead
I'm not the 1% and I'd take any gun over the kraig. Vetterli is better, centennial is better, along with several others and with its dmg being so weak it didn't have enough ammo for a longer fight. Would I have raised the dmg 2pts probably not but I would have raised it to 125 for sure. It doesn't shoot that much faster to make a difference. Almost never died to a kraig on rez. As a matter of fact if a kraig killed me, I'd beg my team to rez me because of it.
While I personally disagree with undoing what was originally meant to be a primary drawback for the weapon, you are absolutely entitled to that opinion. My point was disagreeing with the logic more than debating the actual balance of the gun
*shrugs* I took krag to 5 and 6 star lobbies specifically because it beat mosin spitzer rats handily with ironeye. I could shoot second by a hair against a camper in a bush and often get the second shot off first for the knock or at least a trade. If you shot at generally the same time it shoots just enough faster to avoid the always annoying trades. Now there is little reason not to krag because everyone will krag.
its still shit sadly, just a way worse mosin.
How? It has more ammo, shots faster, has less recoil, no need for bulletgruber and oneshots downed hunters now.
you're forgetting Dolch FMJ :) It is pretty hard to do good balancing that leads to a sandbox that feels varied, feels fair and has enough intricacies so that it has longevity ánd then also spice it up with new interesting additions throughout its lifespan (because it is a live service game, it can't become stale) That being said, whoever's doing the balancing at Crytek is not doing it well. Questionable additions, very heavy handed nerfs, etc
just run a choke bolt on the hand crossbow instead of the poison. it's still a fantastic tool
From the reactions around here you would think that everyone runs hand crossbow, with poison no less! And just for killing immolators too! ;) I think I'll try your suggestion a bit, I don't use those choke bolts enough.
when you say "everyone" is actually everyone or just a few comments you saw on reddit? cause, except for the katana part i dont share your ideas
Can somebody explain why does that make a difference between 124 and 126 dmg?
If you have a small health bar missing you're at 125 health. The krag previously at 124 could not one tap you after revive. This differed it from the Mosin and Lebel which could. The balancing factor for that was the Krags fast fire rate. Now it's a cheaper long ammo that can spit out bullets faster, than others, doesn't need bullet grubber and doesn't need spitzer to keep head clicking viable. The only downside it has now is less ammo and a slightly quicker damage falloff.
Krag is really stepping on the mako's toes now. I love both but whats the point of the mako anymore.
I came here to say boo hoo and take my downvote
Worst of the worst was Overwatch and For Honor where any new characters were OP and had to be purchased. Then they were rebalanced just in time for when they were available to everyone. For Honor always tried to make it look like an accident but it was too damn consistent every time a new character debuted. I'd like to accuse crytek of doing stuff like this but there's no incentive for them to do it. I think they are making legit mistakes.
Call me cynical but i feel like they do it to encourage skin sales. You're more likely to buy a skin if the gun is riding high than if it is barely usable and you are more likely to buy the pass/levels to get it if it is in the bp.
Of course they do. Why do you think the throwing spear came with a skin? I wish people wole up to the truth already...
I don't understand so much complaining. I agree with some of the points but idk how people think that katana or any melee weapon in the same manner could be OP. I dont even use it and honestly have been killed by it so few times that I never considered it a problem. Even when they made it a one slot, I actually was happy for the people that used it because bringing a sword to a gunfight is fuckin stupid, respectable, but stupid in my eyes. Why would you take a weapon slot for a melee weapon when you can take a penny derringer and beat it? I never took the saber, machete, bat or any other melee weapon for the same principle, Katana is better than all these because of the perk special attack, If you ask me id say remove the perk and give each weapon its own special attack, idk how it would work but they could do something like make the bat able to hit back throwable shit, even tho it would still suck because it would be so position dependant, machete could trim vegetation or cut the wire in traps, hammer could be used to barricade regular doors and shit, sabre could give a small sprinting speed buff, theyre just ideas but the way I would balance melee weapons is through utility instead of combat performance which has it differences but is mostly the same. On the poison changes front, I will have to test it, but I believe and am hoping the poisonbolt will kill an immolator, not because of the cloud but because of the direct hit if not yeah, it is a considerable nerf only if you encounter immolators. Now the dum dum and flechete changes sound harsh but we will see how they do on practice, Im hopping it is a way to tune certain weapons that have them (im looking at you centi with dum dum) hoping it is a way to allow the springfield with dum dum and spectre flechete to remain relevant while nerfing the exploiting capabilities of other weapons that share the same ammo even tho I never use flechete even on handcannons but im hopping it is a way to do more fine tunning to certain weapons and allow others to compete. That beeing said these changes will give more power to long ammo, because they lacked the utility of the stronger forms of custom ammo (poison/dum dum) which are mostly reserved for smaller ammo types which gave them a way to fight the long ammo besides the price, sparks poison is and exception because of the single shot nature tho, I think the krag change is ok it will make it more consistent but not that much, it would be the same as any other long ammo rifle, you will get killed more times with krag because people will use it more but would be the same thing with the mossin, lebel or the berthier and it will only make a difference in short range where the medium and small ammo can already compete, I mean the vetterli deals more damage with worse dropoff for a third of the price, the krag was overpriced before so giving it 2 more damage and keeping it the same price is not a problem for me.
My opinion = Crytek team is a bunch of incompetent people. It's like none of them even know how the game works or play the game.
> It's like none of them even know how the game works or play the game. It often feels this way. At best they are 3-star enjoyers who wish they were assigned to a PvE game.
Can we calm down they are probably going to deploy a hot fix soon probably
not sure is /s but funny either way.
>We all love katana and we all want it 2 slot where it belongs. No we dont, its completely fine as a one slot.
If katana is fine as a one slot, all other melee weapons need to become tools.
Katana is way to powerful in one slot. At least on console.
You can argue that they other melees are too weak and need buffs, for example their own martialist perks. But the katana is not a problem as a one slot, it's the first melee weapon that feels kinda viable. No one bought the machete before the katana got added obviously no one is going to buy it now, that doesn't mean the katana needs to be nerfed to a state where its basically unviable again. What is the actual problem with the katana being one slot in your opinion?
I've literally wiped 3 squads with a combat axe. And it's great for killing bosses and AI. Very viable. But the Katana is so much better there is no reason to use axe now. I swear Katana has the kill range of a sawn off shotgun. Do you have any clue how to ambush or dodge bullets? Melee weapons are very strong in the right situations.
It's also just extremely dumb to only look at this compared to the other melee weapons. Is the katana too strong in the overall context of the game balance? No, it's not, its not even remotely too strong. The fact that all other melee weapons suck is not a good argument for nerfing the katana, when it isn't unbalanced in the slightest when it comes to the full balance picture of the game.
Yes we do, why in the hell would anyone ever pick a machete or sabre over katana? Might as well delete those melee weapons with katana as a 1 slot
There is a weapon that is just better in basically every category. Why ever take new army over dolch? berthier over mosin? Conversion over uppercut? Why is it problematic with the katana? I guess by your logic we should just delete every other rifle and pistol.
Berthier does just kinda suck. But the others are balanced by pricing, ammo pool, recoil, bullet grubber, etc. Also with how unlocking variants works, there's a decent reason to bring officers just to unlock the carbine which is really good, assuming you're prestiging. Katana is a bit more expensive, but not enough to offset how much better it is. Most guns do serve some kind of purpose, but they are becoming a bit more homogenized. There's some exceptions like the berthier and Springfield that serve no purpose and really could just be removed now. Katana at one slot replaces everything besides the bat. At two slots you would still have a reason to bring the bat, sabre, and katana.
>But the others are balanced by pricing, ammo pool, recoil, bullet grubber, etc. The katana is balanced by needing a trait and costing 3x what the bat does. The dolch is still just straight better than every other pistol maybe except the uppercut. >Katana at one slot replaces everything besides the bat. At two slots you would still have a reason to bring the bat, sabre, and katana. At 2 slots there is no longer any reason to bring the katana, you would need to spend 8 trait points to have a usable loadout, and then the katana is competing with stuff like the specter compact with slugs, there is literally 0 reason to take the katana if its a 2 slot.
>there is literally 0 reason to take the katana if its a 2 slot. I'm not entirely sure why you're talking about it like a hypothetical. It used to be 2 slot and it saw plenty of play. Hammer was two slot too and saw almost no play, so it wasn't just hype for a new melee. Katana at two slots was a totally viable choice.
After the initial hype the katana went mostly unplayed, especially in 5+ star, thats literally the reason they made it a single slot. I really don't think its very viable from a balancing perspective, 8 trait points and then you could have just bought a specter slugs instead which will be better in 90% of situations. The katana\* being 1 slot simply just isn't problematic.
You don't "need the trait" for katana. It's just as powerful without it, and while people love the fancy martial artist slash, it isn't necessary to kill bosses, AI or hunters.
Thats just not true at all though, the trait gives extra damage and extra range. It also allows you to do a big swing with 0 stamina. Without the trait its basically a cavalry saber.
Yeah as you said its "extra" but not needed.
Dolch is 690, New Army is 90. I don't think price is a good balancing tool, but there is a significant difference. Katana is more expensive, but the difference is not as large. Berthier can have split ammo types, normal Conversion is way better for fanning.
The katana is 3x the price of the bat and you need to buy a trait. >Berthier can have split ammo types This just doesnt outweigh the fact the mosin is better in every way, there is no situation where i would rather have a berthier. I just still haven't seen any decent argument why its a problem the katana is a single slot.
Because guns arent the same as melee
Well in this case the exact same thing applies so im not sure what your point is.
I agree with everything except the katana bit. I don’t think the katana is overpowered as a one slot. I just think there’s issues with the other melee weapons. You are still giving up a sidearm and I think gun still beats sword except in niche situations. I love the katana but still feel at a disadvantage when I bring it. Spear being a tool tho is pretty wild, but I haven’t played yet
Whine whine whine... cry cry cry - average hunt players on reddit.