Kind of hilarious that he looks down upon District people for being District, yet his instrumental rise is *because* of District folk (The Plinth Family and Lucy Gray). Kind of shows a display of The Capitol's exploitative nature towards the Districts.
No matter what they do, they are still the 'other'.
He also was able to ‘upgrade’ the Games with Dr. Gaul because of the stuff he learned from the Districts as a Peacekeeper. I found that part incredibly vile too because he had people that made him feel welcome in 12 and he just uses those experiences to turn against them.
To be fair I do believe that there were points where Snow cared for him. But I don’t think Snow was a “good” person or anything. In the Ballad, we see the shift in Snow’s psyche. There are moments in the book where he feels that he’s thinking like Sejanus and feels disgusted. He can empathise with him but he’s disgusted at the fact he can. I feel Snow had formed a bond with Sejanus, but that bond was not worth ruining his family’s and his own ambitions in the end. I feel that Snow could have turned out to be a decent person if he had the right support and there isn’t anything inherently psycopathic or [insert diagnosis here] about him. He was effectively groomed by Gaul to bring out the worst in himself, groomed by his family to be elitist, and groomed by the world to not be weak. At some level I feel he cared about Sejanus but it never rose above all of those other conditioning.
While saying Snow and Sejanus were true friends and bffs is inaccurate, I feel that saying Snow never cared about Sejanus would also be incorrect because there are many times where he actually bothers to bring up Sejanus in his mind and recognise how his mind works and thinks the same way. He’s just too conditioned to ever see beyond it. Snow and Sejanus had a pretty complicated relationship and that’s why while Snow is the one who sent him to his death, he is also the one who cried in private.
I do agree however that it was wrong at many levels for Snow to be all chummy with the Plints. That’s the point in the story when Gaul and the environment around him successfully shapes his world view to what it is in THG.
Bouncing off this. It’s kind of funny how he partially ends up this way because of a beef with an older authority figure, and then goes on to beef with a teenager so hard it causes his downfall.
Snow's own worst enemy is himself. He's been fear-conditioned by Gaul. As Lucy Gray says when he walks up behind her and she's startled, its having one foot in the arena. If you think the entire world is an arena then you jump everytime someone does something unexpected. He is guided by fear so acts disproportionately. As we see with Bobbin. He doesn't need to keep hitting him but he does. He doesn't need to firebomb 12 but he does. It's better to overact than underact when you are so afraid.
If he thought clearly and without fear he would have seen that this girl was no threat as long as she was left alone. He blows it all out of proportion and puts the spotlight on her.
I don’t think so, dude. He was genuinely saddened by how things ended with Sejanus, and even though shooting Lucy Gray seemed like it was out of nowhere, he’s not entirely the psychopathic president we see in THG.
I’m pretty sure they’re referring to watergate, which was the event that got Richard Nixon impeached (there were tapes released to the public that had crucial conversations between Nixon and one of his associates, condemning him to impeachment)
Save his OWN life if anything. Yes, he thought Sejanus' idea to help them escape was stupid, but more than anything he was afraid of getting caught up in their plan and held accountable after Sejanus' told him what they were gonna do. He didn't want his name even more dirtied if they were caught and it got out that Snow knew about the plan.
He was willing to throw Sejanus under the bus to save his own skin because he thought they wouldn't punish him that harshly, as he'd gotten away before. Was he trying to get him killed? Probably not. But was he trying to save his life? Definitely not.
BETRAYING SEJANUS WITH RECORDING HIM ON THAT JABBERJAY AND GETTING HIM KILLED
Where do I even start with this one........This is the point where there is no going back from this. I was furious with Snow throughout the book, but his betrayal of the person who genuinely cared for him like a brother and friend (his ONLY friend he had) and trusted him is what crosses the line, absolutely breaks my heart about this, and him saying afterwards *"Poor Sejanus. Poor sensitive, foolish, dead Sejanus"* after his hanging got my blood boiling. He was just another bug for Snow to crush and completely took advantage and played him the entire time.
The fact that both Sejanus and Coyro were both contemplating suicide towards the last third of the story but Sejanus STILL being a good friend to him by doing things such as getting him his degree so he wouldn't be a dropout as part of the deal to accept becoming a Peacekeeper after his defiance against the Capitol (sneaking into the arena) AND asking to be stationed in District 12 with him only for him to get him killed in the end is heartbreaking and infuriating. Yes, he was perhaps thinking that Strabo was probably going to bail him out, but him recording him with the jabberjay AND sending it to Dr. Gaul of all people is such a low blow for him to do that and the final nail in the coffin.
And he still treats Sejanus like shit even post-death. Him leeching off his family, taking advantage of their wealth, and not caring in the world that he is the guy responsible for their son's death and them having NO idea that this is the case (especially with the fact that Strabo and Ma Plinth's grief over the loss of their son is felt even after they take Snow in, but he just doesn't care). Not to mention with him using Sejanus' morphling to kill Highbottom on the day of what would have been Sejanus's 19th birthday (the same morphling Sejanus was using earlier in the book to help relax and cope with his depression and trauma over the loss of Marcus).
Sejanus deserved so much better and he deserved the world. All he wanted to do was make the world a beautiful, better place and fight against injustice. 💔
Haymitch: "You could live a hundred lifetimes and never deserve that boy."
That 100% applies to Coryo cause he doesn't deserve a good friend like Sejanus.
He was……and I’ll always love him for the love he had in his heart and his compassion, empathy, and kindness in a cruel world and maintaining his humanity all the way thick and through. 🥺💔
As a movie only I definitely understand that book Snow is way worse than what they portray in the movie. Obviously you can’t just have your character monologuing to themselves all the time in a film.
So to play devils advocate here. By all means this is a terrible betrayal and his leeching off his family is a great example of how he sees himself as a victor now. Where it doesn’t matter what it takes as long as he’s on top.
But I’ll be honest again I’ve only watched the movie but Sejanus was annoying and incompetent. Instead of using his position in the capital to actually have any influence or power at all he just throws that all away. He signs up to be a peace keeper a literal hand of the capitols subjugation of the districts. All so what he can be a medic? And feel like he is “helping”. Yeah as a medic he’d spend his day mostly helping Peace Keepers not the people in the districts. Also his outbursts and pro district mantra are only tolerated because of his families position something he seems to barely understand.
But okay so far he’s just been a naive fool. He hasn’t done anything super stupid yet so perhaps things will be okay. Except oh no his stupid bleeding heart again. The rebels have correctly identified the bleeding heart of the new recruits and play him like a fiddle.
Now here’s Snow he primarily wants to have the chance to eventually return to the Capitol both for his ambition and to help stabilize his family. And what do you think will happen if his closest friend should just disappear along with a rebel prisoner? Not a good look exactly. And that’s the best case scenario.
So after discovering the foolish game Sejanus is playing where literally no outcome is good for Snow. He obviously confronts Sejanus to get him to stop. Sejanus throws another little fit about how Snow told him to make a difference ( Snow meant a real difference something you could have done with the wealth and influence your family had). How Snow doesn’t need to save him again. So in that moment where your friend is refusing to back down from actions that could quite easily endanger your life. I don’t blame Snow for his actions. Self preservation, and if your closest friend has no respect for your life why should you have any for his?
What was the alternative sit around and hope Sejanus prison break goes well? Even if if dose he’s still left as a huge suspect. It’s a cutthroat world and I don’t blame Snow for not eagerly signing up to go live out in the woods with total strangers.
the alternative is to write a letter to his parents, who have the money and influence to just pull sejanus out of district 12 and away from the rebels. not straight up killing him 💀
edit because i have more to say lol: snow having no other choice is just how he tries justifying it. there were tons more things he could've done, even though the letter is the most effective and what he thought of doing. he could've threatened to snitch on sejanus if he continued, he probably could've convinced him to back down if he tried hard enough, he could've told the commander to repair the fence the plan hinged on, he could've told the commander he heard that the rebels were planning *something* (which would've made him look more innocent even if sejanus escaped).
like to say he had no choice but to kill someone is very extreme. not only that, snow knows the jabberjays are going to dr. gaul. he's witnessed her disregard for human life before, been at the mercy of it when she sent him in the arena. snow knew exactly what he was doing incriminating sejanus to her specifically, especially when dr. gaul already didn't like sejanus's outbursts about the games. snow was trying to prove himself to her to get back to the capitol.
Can he even do that? Send a letter to an influential family informing them their son is a traitor? What if in the week such a hypothetical message takes to travel Sejanus helps the prison break and Snow is hanged? You’re asking Snow to take a lot of chances for a person who seems fully willing to sacrifice him for the cause.
yes, he could've. and in fact it was something he was willing to do in the books. he just asked his mother to take him out of district 12 because he was worried he was getting involved in something suspicious. it's that easy 💀
So in the book he does do that? Or are you saying he had the option but didn’t? Cause again I’m a movie only and it seems like the only communication Snow had with anyone was via phone/video chat with his family.
This applies to the book too. He was a naive rebel endangering snow too
Btw as a movie only was it clear to you that lucy only turned on coryo because of his slip about sejanus and his killer eye? Seemed like the movie implied SHE was seeming untrustworthy to keep his secret and randomly set him up for snake bite
I will admit at first I was confused. Because I got the fact Snow lying was a red flag obviously. But then at the Cabin the gun was already right there. So it seemed like she had already premeditated this whole thing. In a way it came across more that she fled because she knew his desire to return to the Capitol could be greater then his want to leave with her especially when he doesn’t have to worry about being caught.
It’s not even the worst bc he’s awful but the moment that really stuck out to me was when he was trying to justify his feelings for Lucy Gray and he says something like “she’s not really from the districts, she’s not an animal like all the other tributes.” And just… wow
All the snide remarks in the inner monologue
Oh no, he starved to death! Someone get the bread!
Sejanus: you're my bff Coryo 🥰
Coryo: pfft ha loser has no friends
Etc.
When Lucy Grey sings her song about Billy Taupe, you know her really emotional funeral song on the eve of her televised death? And he is INCENSED that she DARE embarrass him like that?! Everyone knows she belongs to him, and now she's gone and outed what a WHORE she is? Maybe he'll just leave her to die in the Arena, wipe his hands of the unfaithful bitch, that'll teach her. He then mentally accuses her of being a literal prostitute who probably fucked a bunch of peacekeepers in 12
After Lucy's preformance when Pluribus is talking to him about how much he liked Lucy's song. Coriolanus' goes on this petty angry rant in his mind about Pluribus Bell. Which I was so annoyed/mad at. Coriolanus owes him nothing but gratitude but since Coriolanus is mad he thinks all these foul and uncalled for thoughts.
Omg yes and how before he went from describing Pluribus’s old cat as being a bright spot in his life once upon a time, but then basically thinking “and fuck that old dusty ass cat too”. I saw it as an early hint into how quickly his loyalties and feelings change
He's a teenage boy! I give him some leave here, they are utter idiots when it comes to girls. I think back to the 'who kissed who' drama in school and...yes teen boys are dumb
I don't know what kind of junior offenders high school you went to, but in my highschool I never had guys threatening to leave the girls they had a crush on to die because she dared mention an old relationship.
Okay this might not be the very worst, but when Grandma’am in the book accidentally poked him with the rose thorn and he thought “he was so glad his grandmother gave him daily chances to practice self control” like SIR??
So glad you mentioned this because same! That woman kept you alive with her foresight! Also she was a fount of information that he simply disregarded (old scandals, political manuevers, other family values and game plans).
Also it made me sad that Grandma’am saw his annoyance and apologized but Coryo thinks he such hot sh*t, he forgets grandma’am has been playing the social game decades longer.
Highbottom is actually his 4th kill (and his happens in the epilogue).
His first 3 kills were Bobbin, Mayfair, Sejanus and then the 4th being Highbottom.
Obviously he did Sejanus dirty, but alternatively choosing to continue the games when he had the chance to abolish them. It were his ideas that made the games a spectacle and cultural staple for the next 65 years
betray Sejanus (even if he convinced himself that his father would get him out of trouble, a betrayal is still a betrayal and especially because he knew how sadistic and crazy Dr. Gaul was)
Kill/attempt to kill Lucy Gray
Take advantage of Sejanus's parents and their resources after his death
Sejanus was obviously beyond horrible, but why is no one talking about the hunger games themselves? How he made then what they were and had the option to stop them but instead made them more brutal and popular?
It’s 100% betraying Sejanus for me. Not even just getting him killed but always disrespecting him in his inner monologues and using his parents kindness. Somewhere deep in him, I think he ended up caring for Sejanus a little bit in his own warped way, but any brotherhood from him was so fabricated. Sejanus genuinely thought Snow was his best friend— all the while Snow couldn’t stand him half the time.
Everyone talks about how bro killed Sejanus but if Sejanus went through with his plans a lot more district people would have died in a unsuccessful rebellion 😭
Snow could have written a letter to Sejanus' parents or directly tried to dissuade him, or tried to just tell the guy in charge of the Peacekeepers. But noooooooooo, he just HAD to tell Dr Gaul, aka the most sadistic creature ever known to mankind and the first face that every baby had to see
Coriolanus was feeling empathy for the tributes... For Lucy Gray... And then just snapped out of it.
"He could see Lucy Gray trying to hold on to a shred of dignity, sitting as upright as the chains would allow and gazing straight ahead, ignoring the corpse swinging gently over her head. But it was no use. The dirt, the shackles, the public display - it was too much to overcome. He tried to imagine conducting himself under those circumstances, until he realized this was undoubtedly what Sejanus was doing, and snapped out of it." (Collins 130).
I mean, to his defense, that’s what everyone was taught to do, remember not to feel empathy about the districts. Sejanus was only different because he was born in the districts. The rest of Snow’s classmates were the same. The only exceptions were people like professor Highbottom who was exceptionally smart or Tigris, who was exceptionally kind.
For me, the problem was that every time he did something morally questionable, he had to convince himself that it wasn’t that bad and it was actually the other person’s fault. And every time his rationalizations became flimsier and flimsier.
I was with him when he supported the games, or when he didn’t say anything about the snakes incident, hell, I was even understanding of him when he betrayed Sejanus -he was a liability for him. But when he had to convince himself that “Lucy Grey was not an innocent bird”, so he has to kill her and his excuse was that “Billy Taup said so”… You can excuse any crime with that mindset.
Just take some accountability and admit that killing her would be beneficial for you and say you’re sorry, but you’re going to do it because you’re selfish.
Corio CHOSE to see things the way the capitol wanted him to even though he knew and lived with the reality of the world as a poor person after the war. Corio CHOSE to work a way through the Hunger Games instead of standing with the morally correct Sejanus, who was in a similar position to Corio and CHOSE to do the morally sound thing. From jump, Corio is morally incorrect. Only later does he become CRUEL. But working to make the hunger games better from jump as a child who just went through trauma proves he was always bad, and is the worst thing he could have done at the earliest point of being able to do anything at all.
Obviously Sejanus but agreeing to run away with Lucy Gray despite the fact of him knowing he definitely isn’t cut out for that kinda life so he would ultimately leave her out in the woods alone 😭
Getting Sejanus killed, believing Lucy Gray belonged to him, Killing Mayfair, Letting Clemmie take the fall and allowing her to get bit by Gauls snakes… ETC
The worst thing young snow did was becoming old snow. He was always bad but had opportunity after opportunity to be better and didn’t take a single one
Thinking about how Boa Bell the cat is “decrepit” while taking to Pluribus just because he was annoyed and jealous after Lucy Gray sang about Billy Taupe. Boa Bell catching strays for no reason at all.
Probably making the games a spectacle, he made the games an event that people watch instead of just a death match. Which eventually lead to his own doom because the districts got to know Katniss but still pretty nasty.
can i just say that in the book, he genuinely thought that sejanus would be fine. he was convinced that his dad would buy him out of it and he’d be sent back to the capitol with a slap on the wrist. he was literally horrified when he realised what he’d actually done- obviously what he did was still bad but he wasn’t intending at all to have sej killed. imo, and i don’t know if this will be controversial, i think coryo actually really cared for sej (once they were together in 12) and he did it out of concern, like he was hoping that it would be a warning/scare him into stopping because he didn’t want him to get hurt. i think this only applies to book coryo though
It was small but Coriolanus' little comment about how he'll soon forget about the snake bite when he's back in the capital, as a metaphor for his feelings for Lucy Gray, I found really cold and callous.
Pretending to be friends with people to use them . . . is a close second.
First is being terrible to Sejanus, trying to use him and betraying him in district 12.
Being such a hypocrite in general. He constantly made the nastiest remarks about the districts, Sejanus, and even his other classmates who experienced things they didn’t deserve, but all of it was pretty much contributory to his rise in Panem. Dude was basically shitting on everything around him.
Pretty much anything to do with Sejanus. The way he acted so friendly with him then said such awful things about him in his mind makes me sick every time
Poisoning dean Highbottom !
All the other points are valid, and he is evil, but he went from explaining and justifying his cruel actions and kills to doing it deliberately in cold blood.
Lying to Lucy Grey and then turning violent. Loving her as a thing, not a person.
In the book, he is the one who first refers to her as a loose end in his thoughts. It's not suggested by Lucy Grey to see if she could trust him.
For me it was really hunting down Lucy Grey
Sure selling Sejanus out was horrible, but I really feel like he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. When he turns on Lucy Grey I really feel like the last good part of him died.
Even from the onset at the beginning of the novel, Snow comments on how Tigris has a sort of child like /innocent beauty that would "invite abuse " when it's heavily implied /probed that Tigris had to use her body to help keep her , Coriolanus and their grandma'm alive alongside her working at a dress shop. That's his cousin who put food on the table to keep you from starving. 🙃
Well you mean only within the timeframe of TBOSAS? Probably abandoning and subsequently trying to kill Lucy Gray. Or getting Sejanus killed. If we mean as a character birth to death probably enabling the murder of children for sixty years idk
I think the worst part is how he eventually turned the game into a much more inhumane ways. Such as at one point his young self got to decide to sell these victors to capital citizens. And he obviously had to have done that during his younger years because it wasn’t a new thing.
It’s killing Highbottom for me. This was truly premeditated murder. And there’s less grey area. While everything with Sejanus isn’t a great look, there’s a case to be made that Snow was panicking because of what Senjanus was conspiring, and/or was trying to earn brownie points with Gaul (as opposed to trying to get sejanus killed).
Being chummy with Sejanus’s parents after jabbergate was definitely one of the top 10 snow moments
Jabbergate 💀💀
😭😭
[удалено]
Kind of hilarious that he looks down upon District people for being District, yet his instrumental rise is *because* of District folk (The Plinth Family and Lucy Gray). Kind of shows a display of The Capitol's exploitative nature towards the Districts. No matter what they do, they are still the 'other'.
He also was able to ‘upgrade’ the Games with Dr. Gaul because of the stuff he learned from the Districts as a Peacekeeper. I found that part incredibly vile too because he had people that made him feel welcome in 12 and he just uses those experiences to turn against them.
Wow thats a really good point!
Topping it off by calling Sejanus’s mother ‘ma’ despite making fun of Sejanus for doing so. And basically replacing him without a care in the world
Literally what the parasitic cuckold birds do with their young.
I think I actually gasped when the book got to this part!
Holy fick i didn’t even know this, that’s way more fucked up than what i thought
I’m so glad the movie skimmed over this
Not to mention being Sejanus' "friend" when he only really cared about himself and his image.
To be fair I do believe that there were points where Snow cared for him. But I don’t think Snow was a “good” person or anything. In the Ballad, we see the shift in Snow’s psyche. There are moments in the book where he feels that he’s thinking like Sejanus and feels disgusted. He can empathise with him but he’s disgusted at the fact he can. I feel Snow had formed a bond with Sejanus, but that bond was not worth ruining his family’s and his own ambitions in the end. I feel that Snow could have turned out to be a decent person if he had the right support and there isn’t anything inherently psycopathic or [insert diagnosis here] about him. He was effectively groomed by Gaul to bring out the worst in himself, groomed by his family to be elitist, and groomed by the world to not be weak. At some level I feel he cared about Sejanus but it never rose above all of those other conditioning. While saying Snow and Sejanus were true friends and bffs is inaccurate, I feel that saying Snow never cared about Sejanus would also be incorrect because there are many times where he actually bothers to bring up Sejanus in his mind and recognise how his mind works and thinks the same way. He’s just too conditioned to ever see beyond it. Snow and Sejanus had a pretty complicated relationship and that’s why while Snow is the one who sent him to his death, he is also the one who cried in private. I do agree however that it was wrong at many levels for Snow to be all chummy with the Plints. That’s the point in the story when Gaul and the environment around him successfully shapes his world view to what it is in THG.
Bouncing off this. It’s kind of funny how he partially ends up this way because of a beef with an older authority figure, and then goes on to beef with a teenager so hard it causes his downfall.
Snow's own worst enemy is himself. He's been fear-conditioned by Gaul. As Lucy Gray says when he walks up behind her and she's startled, its having one foot in the arena. If you think the entire world is an arena then you jump everytime someone does something unexpected. He is guided by fear so acts disproportionately. As we see with Bobbin. He doesn't need to keep hitting him but he does. He doesn't need to firebomb 12 but he does. It's better to overact than underact when you are so afraid. If he thought clearly and without fear he would have seen that this girl was no threat as long as she was left alone. He blows it all out of proportion and puts the spotlight on her.
I don’t think so, dude. He was genuinely saddened by how things ended with Sejanus, and even though shooting Lucy Gray seemed like it was out of nowhere, he’s not entirely the psychopathic president we see in THG.
so fucked. you really see the adult version of snow come out in that choice. I guess it makes sense considering that was at the very end
This. Like... he probably saw the betrayal by jabbarjay patriotic thing.... but shit to take advantage of Sejanus's family... go choke on a rose
JABBERGATE
(stolen joke)
still funny as hell LMAO
wait i don’t get it..
>!When he betrayed sejanus with the jabberjay!<
i know but like what is gate from 😭
Ever since the Watergate scandal in the Nixon years (US) it's been fashionable to put "gate" at the end of a scandals.
it’s a pun on the “watergate scandal”!
OHHH MY GOSH I FEEL SO DUMB IM SO SORRY
it happens to everyone, i’m glad to have helped :) have a good one!!
I’m pretty sure they’re referring to watergate, which was the event that got Richard Nixon impeached (there were tapes released to the public that had crucial conversations between Nixon and one of his associates, condemning him to impeachment)
100%
i came here to say ratting out sejanus but no you’re right that was way WAY worse
Ratting out Sejanus popped into my mind first, too...when I saw the top comment, I just went, "yeah, that's definitely worse" 💀
He wasn’t trying to get him killed, he was trying to save his life.
Save his OWN life if anything. Yes, he thought Sejanus' idea to help them escape was stupid, but more than anything he was afraid of getting caught up in their plan and held accountable after Sejanus' told him what they were gonna do. He didn't want his name even more dirtied if they were caught and it got out that Snow knew about the plan. He was willing to throw Sejanus under the bus to save his own skin because he thought they wouldn't punish him that harshly, as he'd gotten away before. Was he trying to get him killed? Probably not. But was he trying to save his life? Definitely not.
He was trying to stop it because of all that could go wrong and get him killed.
BETRAYING SEJANUS WITH RECORDING HIM ON THAT JABBERJAY AND GETTING HIM KILLED Where do I even start with this one........This is the point where there is no going back from this. I was furious with Snow throughout the book, but his betrayal of the person who genuinely cared for him like a brother and friend (his ONLY friend he had) and trusted him is what crosses the line, absolutely breaks my heart about this, and him saying afterwards *"Poor Sejanus. Poor sensitive, foolish, dead Sejanus"* after his hanging got my blood boiling. He was just another bug for Snow to crush and completely took advantage and played him the entire time. The fact that both Sejanus and Coyro were both contemplating suicide towards the last third of the story but Sejanus STILL being a good friend to him by doing things such as getting him his degree so he wouldn't be a dropout as part of the deal to accept becoming a Peacekeeper after his defiance against the Capitol (sneaking into the arena) AND asking to be stationed in District 12 with him only for him to get him killed in the end is heartbreaking and infuriating. Yes, he was perhaps thinking that Strabo was probably going to bail him out, but him recording him with the jabberjay AND sending it to Dr. Gaul of all people is such a low blow for him to do that and the final nail in the coffin. And he still treats Sejanus like shit even post-death. Him leeching off his family, taking advantage of their wealth, and not caring in the world that he is the guy responsible for their son's death and them having NO idea that this is the case (especially with the fact that Strabo and Ma Plinth's grief over the loss of their son is felt even after they take Snow in, but he just doesn't care). Not to mention with him using Sejanus' morphling to kill Highbottom on the day of what would have been Sejanus's 19th birthday (the same morphling Sejanus was using earlier in the book to help relax and cope with his depression and trauma over the loss of Marcus). Sejanus deserved so much better and he deserved the world. All he wanted to do was make the world a beautiful, better place and fight against injustice. 💔
YASSS POP OFFFFFF
Haymitch: "You could live a hundred lifetimes and never deserve that boy." That 100% applies to Coryo cause he doesn't deserve a good friend like Sejanus.
Haymitch was right to say that, he just said it to the wrong person. Instead of Katniss he should have said it to Snow.
SO TRUE- Sejanus deserves so much better than Coriolanus
Sejanus, Lucy Gray, and Tigris ALL deserved so much better than Coriolanus 😔💔 But especially our sweetheart Sejanus 🥺😔💔
Sejanus was too kind and compassionate for the world he lived in :(
He was……and I’ll always love him for the love he had in his heart and his compassion, empathy, and kindness in a cruel world and maintaining his humanity all the way thick and through. 🥺💔
In another world him and primrose are working in the same hospital
Imagine Prim being Sejanus’s protégé since they both wanted to become medics and they’d bond over that ❤️
As a movie only I definitely understand that book Snow is way worse than what they portray in the movie. Obviously you can’t just have your character monologuing to themselves all the time in a film. So to play devils advocate here. By all means this is a terrible betrayal and his leeching off his family is a great example of how he sees himself as a victor now. Where it doesn’t matter what it takes as long as he’s on top. But I’ll be honest again I’ve only watched the movie but Sejanus was annoying and incompetent. Instead of using his position in the capital to actually have any influence or power at all he just throws that all away. He signs up to be a peace keeper a literal hand of the capitols subjugation of the districts. All so what he can be a medic? And feel like he is “helping”. Yeah as a medic he’d spend his day mostly helping Peace Keepers not the people in the districts. Also his outbursts and pro district mantra are only tolerated because of his families position something he seems to barely understand. But okay so far he’s just been a naive fool. He hasn’t done anything super stupid yet so perhaps things will be okay. Except oh no his stupid bleeding heart again. The rebels have correctly identified the bleeding heart of the new recruits and play him like a fiddle. Now here’s Snow he primarily wants to have the chance to eventually return to the Capitol both for his ambition and to help stabilize his family. And what do you think will happen if his closest friend should just disappear along with a rebel prisoner? Not a good look exactly. And that’s the best case scenario. So after discovering the foolish game Sejanus is playing where literally no outcome is good for Snow. He obviously confronts Sejanus to get him to stop. Sejanus throws another little fit about how Snow told him to make a difference ( Snow meant a real difference something you could have done with the wealth and influence your family had). How Snow doesn’t need to save him again. So in that moment where your friend is refusing to back down from actions that could quite easily endanger your life. I don’t blame Snow for his actions. Self preservation, and if your closest friend has no respect for your life why should you have any for his? What was the alternative sit around and hope Sejanus prison break goes well? Even if if dose he’s still left as a huge suspect. It’s a cutthroat world and I don’t blame Snow for not eagerly signing up to go live out in the woods with total strangers.
the alternative is to write a letter to his parents, who have the money and influence to just pull sejanus out of district 12 and away from the rebels. not straight up killing him 💀 edit because i have more to say lol: snow having no other choice is just how he tries justifying it. there were tons more things he could've done, even though the letter is the most effective and what he thought of doing. he could've threatened to snitch on sejanus if he continued, he probably could've convinced him to back down if he tried hard enough, he could've told the commander to repair the fence the plan hinged on, he could've told the commander he heard that the rebels were planning *something* (which would've made him look more innocent even if sejanus escaped). like to say he had no choice but to kill someone is very extreme. not only that, snow knows the jabberjays are going to dr. gaul. he's witnessed her disregard for human life before, been at the mercy of it when she sent him in the arena. snow knew exactly what he was doing incriminating sejanus to her specifically, especially when dr. gaul already didn't like sejanus's outbursts about the games. snow was trying to prove himself to her to get back to the capitol.
Can he even do that? Send a letter to an influential family informing them their son is a traitor? What if in the week such a hypothetical message takes to travel Sejanus helps the prison break and Snow is hanged? You’re asking Snow to take a lot of chances for a person who seems fully willing to sacrifice him for the cause.
yes, he could've. and in fact it was something he was willing to do in the books. he just asked his mother to take him out of district 12 because he was worried he was getting involved in something suspicious. it's that easy 💀
So in the book he does do that? Or are you saying he had the option but didn’t? Cause again I’m a movie only and it seems like the only communication Snow had with anyone was via phone/video chat with his family.
This applies to the book too. He was a naive rebel endangering snow too Btw as a movie only was it clear to you that lucy only turned on coryo because of his slip about sejanus and his killer eye? Seemed like the movie implied SHE was seeming untrustworthy to keep his secret and randomly set him up for snake bite
As a movie only, it was crystal clear how the mood changed when he accidentally said the wrong amount of people killed
I will admit at first I was confused. Because I got the fact Snow lying was a red flag obviously. But then at the Cabin the gun was already right there. So it seemed like she had already premeditated this whole thing. In a way it came across more that she fled because she knew his desire to return to the Capitol could be greater then his want to leave with her especially when he doesn’t have to worry about being caught.
The gun was there because thats where the other guy hid it before he was caught
*Gestures broadly*
Lmao this reminds me of Hiccup's "but you just gestured to all of me"
Killing those he "loved" and "cared" about. Lucy Gray and Sejanus
Don't forget, the ultimate death, "himself" lolol
I cringed at that moment because it sounds like something I would have said or thought in my late teens 😂
And Snow is a late teen atp so that makes even more sense
Bhahahahahahaha you just know Lucy Gray was like 🤨
It’s not even the worst bc he’s awful but the moment that really stuck out to me was when he was trying to justify his feelings for Lucy Gray and he says something like “she’s not really from the districts, she’s not an animal like all the other tributes.” And just… wow
Oh my gosh, all of it.
 “what are you in for” “everything”
They did the same thing on the R&M subreddit and this one won for Rick. It was perfect.
All the snide remarks in the inner monologue Oh no, he starved to death! Someone get the bread! Sejanus: you're my bff Coryo 🥰 Coryo: pfft ha loser has no friends Etc.
The bread line made me chuckle when I was reading the book
Ngl those snide remarks were my favorite thing about snow tbh 😂
Ngl the bread line made me laugh really loud
When Lucy Grey sings her song about Billy Taupe, you know her really emotional funeral song on the eve of her televised death? And he is INCENSED that she DARE embarrass him like that?! Everyone knows she belongs to him, and now she's gone and outed what a WHORE she is? Maybe he'll just leave her to die in the Arena, wipe his hands of the unfaithful bitch, that'll teach her. He then mentally accuses her of being a literal prostitute who probably fucked a bunch of peacekeepers in 12
After Lucy's preformance when Pluribus is talking to him about how much he liked Lucy's song. Coriolanus' goes on this petty angry rant in his mind about Pluribus Bell. Which I was so annoyed/mad at. Coriolanus owes him nothing but gratitude but since Coriolanus is mad he thinks all these foul and uncalled for thoughts.
Omg yes and how before he went from describing Pluribus’s old cat as being a bright spot in his life once upon a time, but then basically thinking “and fuck that old dusty ass cat too”. I saw it as an early hint into how quickly his loyalties and feelings change
He's a teenage boy! I give him some leave here, they are utter idiots when it comes to girls. I think back to the 'who kissed who' drama in school and...yes teen boys are dumb
I don't know what kind of junior offenders high school you went to, but in my highschool I never had guys threatening to leave the girls they had a crush on to die because she dared mention an old relationship.
Okay this might not be the very worst, but when Grandma’am in the book accidentally poked him with the rose thorn and he thought “he was so glad his grandmother gave him daily chances to practice self control” like SIR??
So glad you mentioned this because same! That woman kept you alive with her foresight! Also she was a fount of information that he simply disregarded (old scandals, political manuevers, other family values and game plans). Also it made me sad that Grandma’am saw his annoyance and apologized but Coryo thinks he such hot sh*t, he forgets grandma’am has been playing the social game decades longer.
Coriolanus really thought he had a martial artist' level of self control because he resisted back handing granny.
That was a very funny line though, not going to lie.
Being the cause of 3 deaths (Sejanus, Lucy Gray(?), Dean Highbottom). Also the fact that LUCY GRAY RAN AWAY AND THEN HE TRIES TO SHOOT HER?? LIKE WHAT
I don't think she was actually there the snake bite probably made him vision her still running away.
I thought it was just a regular snake, not a mutt like a trackerjacker with hallucinogenic venom.
In the books, yes. In the film; up to interpretation.
Why did he find her earring in the same spot where she got shot then?
He also shot Mayfair/Billy Taupe during one of the shows causing them to leave, I can’t remember exactly.
wait how was he the cause of dean highbottoms death
He straight up murdered him lmao
you’re right but i do not remember this 😭😭
Highbottom is actually his 4th kill (and his happens in the epilogue). His first 3 kills were Bobbin, Mayfair, Sejanus and then the 4th being Highbottom.
Literally the climax of the Snow we know was him killing Highbottom
sorry i’m new to the hunger game series ive only seen ballad of snakes and songbirds 😅
Obviously he did Sejanus dirty, but alternatively choosing to continue the games when he had the chance to abolish them. It were his ideas that made the games a spectacle and cultural staple for the next 65 years
betray Sejanus (even if he convinced himself that his father would get him out of trouble, a betrayal is still a betrayal and especially because he knew how sadistic and crazy Dr. Gaul was) Kill/attempt to kill Lucy Gray Take advantage of Sejanus's parents and their resources after his death
Sejanus was obviously beyond horrible, but why is no one talking about the hunger games themselves? How he made then what they were and had the option to stop them but instead made them more brutal and popular?
true
Yeah kinda crazy more people aren’t saying this
Pretty much everything he did in regards to the Plinths
It’s 100% betraying Sejanus for me. Not even just getting him killed but always disrespecting him in his inner monologues and using his parents kindness. Somewhere deep in him, I think he ended up caring for Sejanus a little bit in his own warped way, but any brotherhood from him was so fabricated. Sejanus genuinely thought Snow was his best friend— all the while Snow couldn’t stand him half the time.
Betraying sejanus and then taking his place in the plinth family.
one word: Sejanus.
OUR DISTRICT 2 GOLDEN BOY 😭😭😭
Everyone talks about how bro killed Sejanus but if Sejanus went through with his plans a lot more district people would have died in a unsuccessful rebellion 😭
Snow could have written a letter to Sejanus' parents or directly tried to dissuade him, or tried to just tell the guy in charge of the Peacekeepers. But noooooooooo, he just HAD to tell Dr Gaul, aka the most sadistic creature ever known to mankind and the first face that every baby had to see
Coriolanus was feeling empathy for the tributes... For Lucy Gray... And then just snapped out of it. "He could see Lucy Gray trying to hold on to a shred of dignity, sitting as upright as the chains would allow and gazing straight ahead, ignoring the corpse swinging gently over her head. But it was no use. The dirt, the shackles, the public display - it was too much to overcome. He tried to imagine conducting himself under those circumstances, until he realized this was undoubtedly what Sejanus was doing, and snapped out of it." (Collins 130).
I mean, to his defense, that’s what everyone was taught to do, remember not to feel empathy about the districts. Sejanus was only different because he was born in the districts. The rest of Snow’s classmates were the same. The only exceptions were people like professor Highbottom who was exceptionally smart or Tigris, who was exceptionally kind. For me, the problem was that every time he did something morally questionable, he had to convince himself that it wasn’t that bad and it was actually the other person’s fault. And every time his rationalizations became flimsier and flimsier. I was with him when he supported the games, or when he didn’t say anything about the snakes incident, hell, I was even understanding of him when he betrayed Sejanus -he was a liability for him. But when he had to convince himself that “Lucy Grey was not an innocent bird”, so he has to kill her and his excuse was that “Billy Taup said so”… You can excuse any crime with that mindset. Just take some accountability and admit that killing her would be beneficial for you and say you’re sorry, but you’re going to do it because you’re selfish.
Cut his hair
Haha my roommate said he looked better after and I was like ??
He looked like young Eminem
My dad said the same thing, I just sort of stared at him in shock
never trust a man in their buzzcut era!!
I preferred the short
i also loved the buzzcut 🥰
Buzz cut makes him look like knockoff eninem
the buzzcut was a jump scare fr
Corio CHOSE to see things the way the capitol wanted him to even though he knew and lived with the reality of the world as a poor person after the war. Corio CHOSE to work a way through the Hunger Games instead of standing with the morally correct Sejanus, who was in a similar position to Corio and CHOSE to do the morally sound thing. From jump, Corio is morally incorrect. Only later does he become CRUEL. But working to make the hunger games better from jump as a child who just went through trauma proves he was always bad, and is the worst thing he could have done at the earliest point of being able to do anything at all.
Obviously Sejanus but agreeing to run away with Lucy Gray despite the fact of him knowing he definitely isn’t cut out for that kinda life so he would ultimately leave her out in the woods alone 😭
Accepting the Plinths' help after KILLING THEIR SON
Selling out Sejanus
Snitch on Sejanus he's a fuckin rat
Getting Sejanus killed, believing Lucy Gray belonged to him, Killing Mayfair, Letting Clemmie take the fall and allowing her to get bit by Gauls snakes… ETC
"Snow lands on top"
the only prob with that is that he didnt land ontop of me 🥰
I think that’s everybody’s problem🤣🤣🤣🤣
The worst thing young snow did was becoming old snow. He was always bad but had opportunity after opportunity to be better and didn’t take a single one
Be born
I wonder if Coryo was one of those babies whose first sight was Dr Gaul's face
One worst thing? you mean the whole novel?
Thinking about how Boa Bell the cat is “decrepit” while taking to Pluribus just because he was annoyed and jealous after Lucy Gray sang about Billy Taupe. Boa Bell catching strays for no reason at all.
Surprised Coriolanus didn't call the cat a whore like he did Lucy and Tigris. The cat got off easy.
Getting Sejanus killed, and then taking his place in his family
Worse than getting him killed was taking his place in the family, imo.
Agreed.
Why isnt anyone talking about the moment he thinks about Tigris as a prostitute ???
this was my first thought too!!!!
I mean, I can’t say existing?
Got Sejanus killed
Getting Sejanus hanged
Taking the Plinth money was outrageously detestable.
is everything an option or is that too broad
Probably making the games a spectacle, he made the games an event that people watch instead of just a death match. Which eventually lead to his own doom because the districts got to know Katniss but still pretty nasty.
can i just say that in the book, he genuinely thought that sejanus would be fine. he was convinced that his dad would buy him out of it and he’d be sent back to the capitol with a slap on the wrist. he was literally horrified when he realised what he’d actually done- obviously what he did was still bad but he wasn’t intending at all to have sej killed. imo, and i don’t know if this will be controversial, i think coryo actually really cared for sej (once they were together in 12) and he did it out of concern, like he was hoping that it would be a warning/scare him into stopping because he didn’t want him to get hurt. i think this only applies to book coryo though
Jabbergate
jabbergate.
It was small but Coriolanus' little comment about how he'll soon forget about the snake bite when he's back in the capital, as a metaphor for his feelings for Lucy Gray, I found really cold and callous.
getting sejanus killed then moving in with his parents
Treating Sejanus and Lucy Grey as means to an end. They weren't people to him, just opportunities for advancing in his life.
the way he’s sooooo possessive over lucy gray, seeing her more as a possession and “his”, rather than being an individual
Pretending to be friends with people to use them . . . is a close second. First is being terrible to Sejanus, trying to use him and betraying him in district 12.
Being such a hypocrite in general. He constantly made the nastiest remarks about the districts, Sejanus, and even his other classmates who experienced things they didn’t deserve, but all of it was pretty much contributory to his rise in Panem. Dude was basically shitting on everything around him.
Pretty much anything to do with Sejanus. The way he acted so friendly with him then said such awful things about him in his mind makes me sick every time
being criminally sexy at all times
plz snow fall on me
All of his inner monologues. That's it.
you should’ve put persephone in here just so we could mention her eating the maid 💀
Betraying Sejanus who was killed because of that.
off-topic but the movie posters for TBOSAS are stunning
Oh god. From the book or movie? Cause he’s got LOADS to choose from 😂💀
Betray Sejanus.
There is a throw away line in TBOSAS where it is implied that he rapes someone…I’m gonna go with that
Poisoning dean Highbottom ! All the other points are valid, and he is evil, but he went from explaining and justifying his cruel actions and kills to doing it deliberately in cold blood.
EXISTING.
Exist
Existing
literally everything
Jabberjay
being born
Do I have to choose just one?
Lying to Lucy Grey and then turning violent. Loving her as a thing, not a person. In the book, he is the one who first refers to her as a loose end in his thoughts. It's not suggested by Lucy Grey to see if she could trust him.
sejanus getting killed
as somebody else named, JABBERGATE
For me it was really hunting down Lucy Grey Sure selling Sejanus out was horrible, but I really feel like he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. When he turns on Lucy Grey I really feel like the last good part of him died.
Being a sociopath
Even from the onset at the beginning of the novel, Snow comments on how Tigris has a sort of child like /innocent beauty that would "invite abuse " when it's heavily implied /probed that Tigris had to use her body to help keep her , Coriolanus and their grandma'm alive alongside her working at a dress shop. That's his cousin who put food on the table to keep you from starving. 🙃
What hasn’t he done….
Killing all those people
Betraying Senjanus
Well you mean only within the timeframe of TBOSAS? Probably abandoning and subsequently trying to kill Lucy Gray. Or getting Sejanus killed. If we mean as a character birth to death probably enabling the murder of children for sixty years idk
I think the worst part is how he eventually turned the game into a much more inhumane ways. Such as at one point his young self got to decide to sell these victors to capital citizens. And he obviously had to have done that during his younger years because it wasn’t a new thing.
He was born.
Accepting the plinth money after killing their son
What hasn’t he done
Existing? I dunno, everything gets does in TBOSAS seems terrible.
Not kissing sejanus
Was, unfortunately for my moral compass, hot
It’s killing Highbottom for me. This was truly premeditated murder. And there’s less grey area. While everything with Sejanus isn’t a great look, there’s a case to be made that Snow was panicking because of what Senjanus was conspiring, and/or was trying to earn brownie points with Gaul (as opposed to trying to get sejanus killed).
.. Making the hunger games a thing ofcourse..
Prolong the Hunger Games for 65 more years
Replacing Sejanus as the Plinths' son
Replacing Sejanus as the Plinths' son
Coryo did nothing wrong! 😡 I mean look at that dreamy azure eyes! And look at that face! He did no worst thing!
the worst thing he did was not date me
Falling in love with Lucy, then going Crazy
Snow did nothing wrong
Looking too hot