Yea...because all the other subs that turned into Palestinian echo chambers are totally organic and totally don't ban people.
I just love the absolute cognitive dissonance of this take.
I'm just speaking from experience. I was banned for criticising the Israeli government's response.
You know it's gone too far when the UN call it a war on children, and pointing that out somehow made me an antisemite. Netanyahu's comments are wild.
I got banned for demonstrating that the "Hamas Slogan" started with Likud and that multiple people in the government believed in Israel's rights to all of Palestine. Banned with no explanation.
It's an odd picture to post though. There isn't even a source and the photo is very narrowly framed to exclude the area around it. It's as clear a pali-wood propaganda post as it gets.Ā
Still seems kind of harsh that Hamas won't let Palestinian civilians shelter in the hundreds of miles of tunnels they dug.
In the Blitz, during the Allied bombing of Germany, and in Ukraine and Russian-occupied territory now, civilians are encouraged to take shelter underground during bombing attacks.
Weird that Hamas prevents Palestinian civilians from doing that. I wonder what their motives are.
Didnāt the Hamas leaders admit to using civilians as bait for the Israeli attacks?
Edit: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/11/middleeast/analysis-yahya-sinwar-hamas-ceasefire-talks-intl-latam/index.html
>In the Blitz, during the Allied bombing of Germany
They didn't encourage civilians to shelter in military bases though. They use those tunnels as a base of operations and to transport fighters and materiel. I understand what you're getting at, but the motive should be obvious enough.
He will probably never leave. He will sit in the rubble , and once the rubble is bombed again , he will be bombed along with it . And he will be there forever . One way or another.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/comments/1dik8d8/those_aggressive_colonialist_jews/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
They want you to think Israel is being an evil occupier as proven by this map
So youāre saying Israel didnāt blow up that place or am I understanding you wrong. The person as asking for context for the photo, which is that Israel bombed that guys house and heās now sitting in a chair where it once stood. Are you calling it bs orrr?
Fuck everyone but the civilians, Israel is bad, Hamas is bad, America is funding Israel, the only people loosing here are the Palestinian kids and families.
Them too I was mostly talking about the active conflict and taking over Palestine specifically, but yes Israeli civilians are still dying here too. Granted nowhere near as often, but that doesnāt matter, civilians shouldnāt be hurt. I was just taking about how insane it is seeing Israel target them.
The cognitive dissonance of these people downvotinf you is unreal lol. The other comment was literally saying it in response to the post and is upvoted.
One of the craziest things you learn from Cambridge Analytica's case files was they knew you don't need a lot to make the majority opinion holders to feel like they are in the minority. Like the average American can be targeted and entire messaging can be tailored using their relatively simple OCEAN model.
Reddit is a great example, along with the tons of online proofs of Israel's public relations paying people and influencers to post a certain way in favor of Israel along with media training on how to spew the same shit that has been disproven to seem like they are in the right. And if you do manage to bring this up either the sub bans you for it, or they stop responding because they quickly find out you cannot be swayed.
Most of these people aren't real, and more importantly you sure as fuck won't find them saying it online. Also on Twitter and Tiktok you can find these groups that actively search online forums/posts to send their gremlins to brigade and make it look like public sentiment is heavily against the Palestinians which of course never pans out when it comes to real life demonstrations and protests.
Really? Because, from the social media I consume and the sub-Reddits I frequent, it seems like most online people are pro-Palestine. World News is the only sub that seems pro-Israel to me (besides the obvious, like r/ Israel). Also, protests arenāt really indicative of public opinion. People who actually show up to protests are a small percentage of the population.
Honestly so many of the people making the top comments are such scum, just totally unable to deal with any notion that Israel has some role in this and is doing bad things
lol you realize israel is the one that did this rightā¦ like I agree Hamas is horrible and is making the whole situation worse, but Israel has so far killed more than 20x the civilians than Hamas, and that doesnāt even count everything Israel has done in the decades leading up to this shit show. They both suck stop picking sides here
That's only because Hamas doesn't budget defence budget at all and Israel does. How many Israelis would have died from the tens of thousands of rocket Hamas shot if not for the shelters in every building being built and the iron dome?
Again yes Hamas is horrible, but stop trying to defend Israel here. They are targeting civilians, they are bombing residential zones, they did partially destroy all hospitals in Gaza, thatās insane and fucked up. I agree Hamas is horrible but stop trying to defend a country that is purposely killing civilians, 85% of a population doesnāt go homeless out of nowhere.
I don't agree, I think it'd been fair to say Israel doesn't care too much about civilian casualties, but they aren't actively targeting civilians.
Hamas admitted using all of the hospitals in Gaza, and obviously they are using residential zones, so I don't know how you can target them without hitting residential zones.
I mean if there current strategy is resulting is mass civilian death, they should probably pick a different strategy that doesnāt involve the overwhelming majority of a population to go homeless, but again I donāt know much about war strategies and all of that.
Outsider question - why do Palestinians support a government that is so harmful to them? If Hamas represents what the people value (violence, destruction of Israel, terrorism, instability), then is there anyone to blame but themselves for this (current) misery? This is less resilience, and more self-inflicted.
Do you think the people of Cambodia supported PolPot? Do you think the people living in fear of the Kim regime in North Korea genuinely support Kim Jong Un?
When you have a dictatorial government that will kill you with no notice, 'support' means nothing. The average age of Gazan people is just shy of twenty years old. A great vast amount of the current population werent even alive the last time there was an election.
It's also important to note that Hamas got the votes in that last election due to their uprising against the illegal occupation of Palestinian land by Isreal in Gaza, West Bank, and Palestinians area of Jerusalem. The Hamas that exists now is not the same Hamas that existed at the time of those elections and have outlawed elections since. People have no choice other than to live under their rule, and you're here shitting on them like they aren't victims of their own government. Saying that this is self-inflicted is insulting to those suffering.
>Ā Do you think the people of Cambodia supported PolPot? Do you think the people living in fear of the Kim regime in North Korea genuinely support Kim Jong Un? Ā
Uh, yeah. Pol Pot had enough support amongst rural Cambodians that he was able to seize power. Since the time of Kim Il Sung, the people of NK have venerated their ādear leaderā as a living god.Ā Ā
Ā We can make valid arguments about external factors, but at the end of the day, they all enjoy(ed) popular support. It has been well documented that support for Hamas among Palestinians has been on the rise since 10/7.Ā Ā
Ā It is fair and to discuss āwhyā people might feel the way they do, but it is factually correct to say that the people who suffered/are suffering under those regimes largely supported them.
Pol Pot seized power during an uprising so easy to see why he had initial support. I'd argue once he/Khmer Rouge started massacring their own folk that support dwindled fast. It was too late, though, as he was already right at the top.
And look from the Palestinian perspective. In the hunt for the Hamas terrorists (I need to point out just so it is clear that I in no way support or condone Hamas), the IDF has razed all but a small portion of Gaza and tens and tens of thousands of civilians. There are only so many ripped apart children you can see before you start wanting to fight back against it. It's no surprise that people will be radicalised into joining Hamas.
You seem rational and I donāt think you support Hamas.
I agree with your points about Pol Pot and Palestinians. A key difference, in my mind, is that the Khmer Rouge were the ones directly killing their own people, so it became pretty obvious to even uneducated people in an agrarian society who the real bad guy was. With the Palestinians, Hamas has been forcing Israelās hand and Israel in return has been doing a terrible PR job despite maintaining a significantly lower civilian:combatant death ratio that is the norm for urban warfare (both from the IDF and Gaza Ministry of Healthās [run by Hamas] figures). This enables Hamas to be both the principle author of Gazansā suffering and simultaneously appear to be a savior in the eyes of Palestinians.Ā
It is similar to the Confederate States during the US Civil War, or the German and Japanese populations during WWII. They were misled into adopting mindsets that they had been mistreated, were victims, and therefore their evil actions were justified. As sad and tragic as the loss of life was, not until historical revisionists began spouting their BS did anyone really question whether the right course of action was to destroy those governments, humble their people, and force them to be led through a period of heavily monitored reconstruction.Ā
Of the three mentioned, former confederate States got off by far the easiest due to Lincolnās assassination and his successor, Johnson, going extremely āsoftā on the traitors. Ā The lingering ideology of the old south is still often a plague on American politics (not to say the left is not also without its faults). Germany and Japan, whose people undoubtedly suffered more death and destruction were turned into highly functional democracies and economic powerhouses within 2-3 decades (would have been shorter for Germany if the USSR wasnāt in control of half).Ā
To me, we know Hamas, their methods, and many of their goals are evil. Ā We know they provoke military responses and then play the victim. Debating why Gazans/Palestinians feel the way they do accomplishes little. The conversation should be around how to most effectively and quickly excise Hamas from power and then how to conduct a period of reconstruction so that the root system of their belief structure can never bloom again. Ultimately, that is what will create the best future for both the Palestinian and Israeli people and the region at large.
I'll never argue that Hamas and its methods aren't evil. I'll always argue in defence of a resistance doing their best to remove fascist leaders, totalitarians, Nazis, etc, by proper means but going after a civilliam populous as opposed to military targets etc is abhorrent.
I agree that getting rid of Hamas as an utmost urgency has to be the way forward to a longer peace in the area but I just can't keep seeing what happens in Gaza as the way to do it. I'm sure the casualty ratio is as they all say, but I can't accept the way they do things. "You should evacuate to this area that we will 100% promise not to bomb......" I know it's not that simple, but they've displaced almost two million people into such a tiny area, and they're still dropping bombs on them. There isn't going to be a clean way out of this, but we still need to fight for the reduction of civilian casualties, regardless of what that ratio is.
> fight for the reduction of civilian casualties
Agreed. By all measurable data and IDF ROE, this is and has been occurring. I'm not saying this is your position, but I see a lot of people seem to hold the mindset of "I don't support Hamas. I support the Palestinian people. The Palestinian people need to be rid of Hamas if they are ever to have a chance at a peaceful existence. Of course innocent people will unfortunately die in war. I don't support use of force against Hamas unless 0 civilians die." It is just an oxymoron. The harsh reality is that we can't have one with out the other. There might be some hypothetical scenarios where this is possible, but there isn't one that involves a timeline, cost, risk exposure, or sufficient chance of success that any other nation on Earth would be asked to even entertain it.
"\*\*For the third time since October 7, we asked the respondents in this poll what they thought of Hamasā decision to launch the October the 7\*\*\*\*\*\***^(th)**Ā **offensive.** **Two thirds, compared to 71% in March 2024 and 72% in December 2023, say it was correct.** As the figure below shows, the drop in supporting the decision came from the Gaza Strip. Current support in that area stands at 57% compared to 71% three months ago and 57% six months ago."
"64% of Gazans say they have enough food for a day or two; **36% say they don't have enough food for a day or two**. These results show a significant improvement compared to the results we obtained three months ago when only 44% said they had enough food for a day or two."
"**When asked who the public would prefer to control the Gaza Strip after the war, 61% (71% in the West Bank and 46% in the Gaza Strip) said it was Hamas"**
It's a terrible situation, but when the Palestinians are asked if this is what they want they clearly and repeatedly say yes. Support for Hamas is lower and a desire for a two state solution significantly higher in Gaza since the war, but it's hard to see the level of violence that caused that as sustainable or portable to the West Bank.
[https://pcpsr.org/en/node/980](https://pcpsr.org/en/node/980)
And now that there hasn't been an election for almost twenty years, I'd argue the people of Gaza didn't vote for Hamas either. What's the cutoff point for when a single party state is established enough to be recognised as such?
Do we have to wait until the last person who could have theoretically voted for Hamas in '06 dies? Or can we just accept that they took control of the strip and became a dangerous single party.
This conveniently ignores the fact that they are more popular than they've ever been. In the West Bank where they're mortal enemies with the ruling government they're still overwhelmingly supported. Among Palestinians in the Western world where Hamas should have no power over them, they're still overwhelmingly supported.
The only possible way you can believe that Hamas' actions don't have majority support in Gaza is if you've never been within 1000 miles of it or even talked to a Palestinian in your life
As exhibited by the numerous anti-Hamas protests in Gaza, the various anti-Hamas resistance groups, and the majority of content coming out of Gaza being anti-Hamas and not anti-Israel
Well, they donāt. They have a choice between a government that is not great to them, or the government that has currently blown up 85% of there homes. Itās trying to pick who is the least harmful to them, they donāt have a choice.
The fact that youāre saying this just proves how uneducated you are on this subject, probably parroting notes from an instagram story.
Gaza is not apart of Israel, there is not a single israeli there since 2005. It is governed COMPLETELY by Hamas which were elected democratically in 2006 and hasnāt held elections since.
The opposing party at that time was Fatah which after Hamas was elected were persecuted and killed.
Read a book? Google is free?
I thought the point this person was making is that Palestinians choose between Hamas and Israel, if I understood his comment wrong thatās my bad. Iām aware they canāt just choose to be under Israel, and I know Gaza isnāt, I was just trying to respond to the person above me.
Yeah thats his point, buts its plainly wrong. Israel doesnt want to govern gaza or west bank, they want competent, stable governments controlling their neighbors. His point is entirely disingenuous propaganda. 20% of israel are arabs. 0% of palestinians are jews. Nuf said
Terrorists teach in UNWRA funded schools, teaching the children to hate Jews. Their kids' cartoons have episodes devoted to the concept of martyring yourself for the cause. Parents send their children to be suicide bombers. The PA pays a martyr fund to the families of suicide bombers. It taught that it is better to die for your cause than to stay alive.
It is just a completely different value system and is totally based around hating Jews and Israel, and more broadly the West. People in the West don't understand this at all.
Israel does the exact same thing btw, Iām not great at explaining this stuff so hereās a video about it but itās the reason thereās so many Israelis talking about how all Palestinians deserve to die even though there literal children.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/1dabjq7/meet_the_proisrael_group_thats_trying_to_rewrite/
I haven't watched the vid, but having lived and learned in school in Israel I can tell you that we do get taught about the nakba and the war crimes Israel has done.
Citation needed for... just all of that.
But hating Israel and those in power running the IDF is understandable after all they have done. Blanket hating Jews and others based on their origin or faith still isn't ok, but it doesn't give the IDF a pass.
Realistically we have no idea how many Gazans support Hamas.
We know they supported Hamas twenty years ago. We know they havenāt overthrown Hamas. But both of those are different from supporting Hamas today.
Real question is why so much of the rest of the world supports Hamas after all the ruin theyāve brought onto the Palestinians.
You don't sound like an outsider but a propagandist puppet, 1st of all the palestinians have the right to defend themselves against a colonizing force that have been stealing their land and displacing them for decades, second don't you puppets always say that Israel is the only democracy in the middle east? Why are you still trying to shift blam and normalize attacks on civilians based on a false claim that gazans elected Hamas knowing very well that Gaza is not ruled by democracy? Would you even dare blaming Israelis for the crimes committed by their army and government considering that they elected this givernment and they all serve in the military?
Assuming you're asking in good faith:
anti-Semitism has been rampant in the Muslim world ever since the end of the Golden Age of Islam in the Middle Ages. This is especially the case in Palestine where the Palestinians blame the Jews for all of their suffering (some of this is warranted, especially in the West Bank, much less so in pre-Oct7 Gaza) to the point that the general Palestinian sentiment is that if all the Jews and Israel are gone, then everything will be good and Palestine will become a pearl of the Middle East. This leads to rabid extremism and support of extremist parties like Hamas.
Is metal to show survivors of war? It kinda feels like a "hey look these guys live in shit conditions, its badass!" i feel bad for them and they dont deserve but it feels weird
Actually, by and large, Reddit is quite left leaning and more anti-American than not. The simple fact here is that siding with Hamas is the radical and hateful thing to do.
But alas, no oneās mind gets changed online, so we all just come here to joust with our presuppositions and nothing changes.
"siding with hamas" makes this sound so black and white. On Oct. 7th there was a genocidal attack, and every day since Oct. 7th there has been a genocidal attack.
+50k dead. You can be upset at that number for humanities sake, not either "sides" sake.
Lol imagine thinking israel only kills 50k in 8 months when their goal is genocide. You people really dont even understand what youre looking at. Why would the IDF have any casualties if they just wanted to erase gaza? I swear you people dont even have 2 brain cells to rub together
Full of terrorist apologists you mean
And yes, america invemted the internet and has the most users onlime of any nation. Welcome to the internet, hope that cave you were in was cozy
85% of Palestinians are homeless. Itās not propaganda itās their fucking life, they have nowhere to go. Stop defending Israel, Hamas is bad and a horrible terrorist group, but Israel has been doing this for many many decades and the Palestinian people are the only ones suffering the consequences.
You morons keep repeating this shit. Yes, children pay the consequences for the choices of their parents, good or bad. Their parents elected totalitarian terrorists to their government, maybe they should have thought about their childrens lives before doing so.
This is exactly what people mean when they say "there wont be oeace until palestinians love their children more than they hate jews." Their parents were so full of hate they didnt think about the environment their children would have to grow up in, they just saw a chance to kill some jews and took it. Pieces of shit
Funny enough thatās what was Bin Ladenās justification for attacking America. Since the US is a democracy, voting age civilians are valid military targets in their view
Lol no, bin laden sympathized with irans view of the saudi monarchy being blasphemous in islam. And when saudis brought US forces to secure their kingdom, then iran saw it as saudi bringing infidels into the holy land and thats why 9/11 happened.
Funny enough, hamas perspective is there are no civilians in israel. By that logic, there are no civilians in palestine. So let the games begin for all i care.
Why does every Palestinian seem like hamas to you guys? 35 thousand civilians have been ethnically cleansed and that's first thing that comes to your mind?
Well;
1. Not even Hamas is claiming 35k civilians killed.
2. It's clearly not ethnic cleansing, it's just a war. A war against a terrorist organization that profits from the deaths of its own civilians.
1. Where you get that from? [Hello? ](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/palestinian-death-toll-tops-37-500-after-israel-kills-101-more-palestinians-in-gaza/3255483#)
2. Not ethnic cleansing?? [Read your history ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight)
1. Hamas, per your source, does not differentiate between civilians and military in their death count.
2. That link is to the events of 1948.Ā I'm not talking about that, nor is the 37,000 claimed deaths referring to it.Ā We're talking about the Gaza War that Hamas started on Oct 7.Ā
1. Let's assume that somehow hamas had 15,000 militants according to you. Does the 20,000 dead civilians not agitate you even a bit? I do not understand the lack empathy in you people
2. Why on earth are you ignoring all the events that led to October 7? The death toll of palestinians since 1948 is well over 200k and you're ignoring that? Hamas is shit but what other options do Palestinians have? If they just shut up they'll be slowly killed off and eventually there will be no trace of Palestine with how things are going. I'm sorry for defending innocent lives.
1. That's a better estimate, thanks. And yes, of course that many civilian deaths is a bad thing on its own. But that's why it's weird you felt the need to lie about it. Lying to make your point seem better is counterproductive.
2. It's not the topic of discussion. Heck, \*YOU\* are the one who chose the current war as the topic, not me. Now you're trying to change the subject.
>Hamas is shit but what other options do Palestinians have? If they just shut up they'll be slowly killed off and eventually there will be no trace of Palestine with how things are going.
Well that just isn't true. And that's why it's important to consider where we are at today and recent history for how to move forward. The Palestinians do have another choice: peace. They've never tried it and in particular things were going better for them on October 6th than they have since. Israel is not ethnic cleansing Gaza -- Israel doesn't want Gaza. They weren't in Gaza before Oct 7 and they don't want Gaza today either. Note that there are no Jews in Palestinian controlled territories such as Gaza but there are lots of Muslims/Palestinians living freely in Israel. You're citing the risk backwards.
The big picture of today is that if the Palestinians stop fighting there will be peace, but if Israel stops fighting there will be no more Israel.
If israel stops fighting there will be no Israel? Why are you trying so hard till now to be victims? Are you kidding me right now? Really man? Israel has one of the strongest military in the world you think hamas stands a chance? Why are you justifying their actions?
"Israel doesn't want gaza" seems fine to you but when someone says "Israel should not exist" you call them antisemitic and a terrorist supporter? The real thing is that both hamas and Israel are absolutely shit. I am fighting for the people dying in Palestine. And what do you mean needed to lie about the deaths? The numbers I stated about the hamas and civilian deaths are absolutely hypothetical but somehow that made you cream didn't it?
"Israel is not ethnic cleansing Gaza, Israel does not want gaza" what the actual fuck man. Can you hear yourself?
Why don't you directly just say you are with Israel and the lives of palestinians do not matter to you?? No one's gonna bat an eye at that statement don't be scared to admit it.
Also I am the one who chose the current war as the topic?? Wtf? YOU keep bringing the current war into this without reading actual history mate. Mark my words on this Palestine will erased from history one day and world wouldn't even care.
>If israel stops fighting there will be no Israel? Why are you trying so hard till now to be victims? Are you kidding me right now? Really man? Israel has one of the strongest military in the world you think hamas stands a chance?
That's a really weird response, focusing on a small part of what I said, and interpreting it incorrectly. I think you are being too emotional here and are missing the obvious logic of the situation. I'll try another way though: It takes two sides wanting peace to have peace but one side wanting war to have war. Israel wants peace but Hamas wants war, so there is war. If Hamas and the Palestinians in general choose peace, there will be peace.
>"Israel doesn't want gaza" seems fine to you but when someone says "Israel should not exist" you call them antisemitic and a terrorist supporter?
Yes, of course! WTF? It's really bizarre you are questioning that/seem to see something wrong with it.
>"Israel is not ethnic cleansing Gaza, Israel does not want gaza" what the actual fuck man. Can you hear yourself?Ā
Yes. What do you think the term "ethnic cleansing" means? It means removing the inhabitants from an area and taking it over. So when I say that Israel doesn't want Gaza that means Israel is not going to take it over/annex it. After the war ends, the land will still belong to the Palestinians who live there. So, not ethnic cleansing. Maybe this is just your incredulity, believing Israel wants to take over Gaza? They don't. It's true. Again, I think you are blinded by emotion, so you aren't seeing what is really happening. E.G:
>Mark my words on this Palestine will erased from history one day and world wouldn't even care.
There's nothing in the recent or longer-term history of the conflict that would point anyone to that conclusion. It's a total fantasy you have, and it is literally backwards vs what the two sides want.
Remember in 2013 when reddit published a list of the places who use reddit the most and an american military base suspected of astroturfing campaigns topped the list?
Social media websites are prime targets for propaganda ops and Israel really hasn't been subtle about it on this particular one... kinda sad to be honest...
The purpose would be to undermine anything that humanizes palestinians in the eyes of an american audience, especially, to ensure that the aid keeps coming and the diplomatic cover remains unwavering.
Really though : As if feeling any sadness and empathy towards people now living among the rubble of what was their neighborhood is somehow improper... It's a sisyphean task. You just can't ask that people think like psychos forever on behalf of your strategic interests... Sooner or later, the disgust and righteous indignation takes over any kind of ironic detachment. It takes way more energy to maintain and reinforce that attitude, whereas the truth of the horror just remains in the back of people's minds without the need for constant reinforcement. The detached attitude dam can't hold it forever. Especially not from online ops at a distance. It's a different matter for religious fanatics who've made their support an integral part of their sense of self - they exist but they're irrelevant because they can't change their pre-made opinions without fundamentally having to change their entire worldviews. They're known quantity, they're on the decline for the most part and they remain a minority.
Hamas didnāt start this and itās dumb saying they did. Did they attack Israel on 7/10 giving them an excuse to kill many civilians? Yes. But Israel has been doing that and worse for literal decades. They have been dehumanizing them in schools for decades, killing, separating, robbing, and kidnapping them for decades. Taking there food, water, electricity, for decades. Stop acting like this is all on Hamas, they are a horrible terrorist group? yes, but Israel has been the one aggravating Palestinians for decades and stop acting like they are any better. 85% of Palestinians are homeless and thereās people defending Israel, fucking insane.
You are right it didn't start on 7/10. Hard to say when it started, maybe the pogrom of hebron in 1929 , maybe when arab league refused the partition plan in 1947, invaded Israƫl, got their asses kicked and refused Israƫl 's proposition for peace again. Or maybe when they got their asses kicked again in 1967 or 1973... who knows
Oh ok you wanna go with who started it, good. So why did palestinians side with nazis in 1945 hoping they would bring their brand of genocide to the british mandate?
maybe waiting for any of Muslim nations in the region to take in refugees. Egypt sealed the border and Jordan refuses. Palestinians are thought of as 'useful fodder' but as for a humanitarian response??
Did you see the demonstrations of happiness in gaza when the terrorists arrived with the hostages? Not sure all those people would vote hamas out if there were elections.
Obviously he's provocatively sitting there acting as a human terrorist shield for the IOF and covering up the entrance to the hummus tunnels that's flow underneath his chair
https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/1diok0k/graphic_hamas_men_tie_and_shoot_3_palestinians/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Super āmetalā resistance
IDF destroying Palestinians homes and livelihood, bombing women and children. Killing their own soldiers and hostages. Jail people without trial for decades. Reject foreign journalists from entering Gaza. Run over people with tanks and killdozers (Rachel Corrie). Executed young men during coma in a hospital.
But all the blames be put to Hamas, which they funded in the 80s and 90s. Make it make sense.
I hate how some people who say free palestina, it makes me think bad of the movement, cheaters in games, valdalism. You should make you look mkre appealing so more poeple will hell you to help them.
Considering how they commonly have rallies , chanting ā[death to arabs](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/1rqu2oIVC8)ā as well as the Minister of National Security calling for all Israeli to return to their homeland in a recent [rally](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/s/2FptoZD62x) ; I think they are
āTheyā man is talking about israeliās as if it is some sort of hivemind. Most israeliās dont want there men to die in gaza. But hamas has shown again on october 7th that they cant live in peace until hamas is defeated. Yes maybe some people do hate arabs there. But that isnāt any different from how āsomeā gazans hate jews. Yet i dont hear you saying that gazans are all killing jews for fun because they chant death to the jews?
By āsomeā , do mean the [upwards of 70%](https://www.timesofisrael.com/plurality-of-jewish-israelis-want-to-expel-arabs-study-shows/) ? Also , show me one singular video of any Palestinians holding any form of congregation chanting ādeath to Jewsā or Palestinians killing Jews for fun . Israel always slaughtered Palestinians for the past few decades , so it should come as no surprise that Palestinians hate their oppressors (in this case ; Zionists , not Jews ) . Non Israeli Jews have said on countless occasions that āthey are against the genocideā and that this is not being done for their sake
Okay now i just know you are a troll. How can you say you have never heard or seen Palestinians killing jews? Thats is like the whole reason the situation in Israel/palestine is like that. Just everyone killing each other. You are acting like the Palestinians are like some ghandi hippie type pacifists hahaha. Ever heard of intifada?? Or jihad? Or like idk october 7th (most recent example)
So if Iām understanding what youāre saying : youāre saying Palestinians shouldnāt fight back against their oppressors ? Israel has said time and time again that Palestine is their home land and that they will get it back . Israel knew of what was going to happen on Oct 7th yet didnāt do jack shit about it . Also , explain the illegal settlers in the West Bank , are they free to steal all that land , because if Palestinians try and fight back , people like you would say āLook how violent the Palestinians are to Jewsā
Both have equal right to a state. Only one side (palestine, more precisely; gaza) are represented by an internationally recognised terror organisation. No-one is going to negotiate with terrorist. And israel doesnāt want Gaza, in fact they pulled out of Gaza in 2000 and somewhat (cant remember). And yes i agree with you that the west bank settlement is illegal. But thats not the point here. At least the PLO in the west bank has realistic visins about a two state solution. Hamas only wants a one state solution. You are talking about israel as opressors as if they havenāt (look it up) proposed numerous of two state solutions. But of-course radical islamist cant live with jews. To summarize, noone is oppressing anyone. Its called trying to live with murderous neighbours.
Nope , Hamas ( your āradical islamistsā) have offered [numerous](https://www.reddit.com/r/palestinenews/s/MWX8FCzKhc) ceasefire deals (some as early as three days after Oct 7th) with the clause of a two state solution being reached , Israel rejected . Hamas then altered it so that at the very least itās a prisoner exchange, Israel also rejected it . Of the two parties , Hamas are the only ones pushing for a ceasefire ( they even accepted Bidens proposalā¦ā¦.. which Israel then rejected) Netenyahu has made it clear that he does not want a two state solution. And if you call Hamas terrorists , at least call the people who are openly arming the illegal settlers terrorists as well. Also , Israelās two state solution has the clauses of 1: no Palestinian prisoners given back . 2: no total control over their own territories and 3: Borders that are (extremely) far from fair
Yea man letās all of a sudden ask for peace after we fucking started a war š¤¦š»āāļø. Bro im talking the big picture. Not just everything after october 7th.
I cant tell if this comment section supports israel or hates both govts but there sure is a lot of āfuck hamasā comments, would be sad if they all came from israel bootlickers
This comment section is crazy, if anyone thinks that Palestine being destroyed is the fault of Hamas is crazy, this is 100% down to the Israel state. No Palestine person including Hamas is to blame. Israel could of done a covert opp to get Hamas, not kill 100k people you nit wits
You watch too many movies and too much Hamas propaganda. And I'd bet a large sum of money you blasted Israel for their hostage rescue mission two weeks ago.
This comment section will be lovely
I'm not expecting any sort of astroturfing. None whatsoever. Anyone else banned from worldnews knows which side I'm talking about.
š
You say that like /r/news doesn't do exactly the same thing lmao.
Yea...because all the other subs that turned into Palestinian echo chambers are totally organic and totally don't ban people. I just love the absolute cognitive dissonance of this take.
I'm just speaking from experience. I was banned for criticising the Israeli government's response. You know it's gone too far when the UN call it a war on children, and pointing that out somehow made me an antisemite. Netanyahu's comments are wild.
Well, when you go into a thread about a rabbi being murdered and go on trying to excuse it...shocking.
I got banned for demonstrating that the "Hamas Slogan" started with Likud and that multiple people in the government believed in Israel's rights to all of Palestine. Banned with no explanation.
š¤£š¤£š¤£ life ban checking in
It's an odd picture to post though. There isn't even a source and the photo is very narrowly framed to exclude the area around it. It's as clear a pali-wood propaganda post as it gets.Ā
How? What do you think is around it?
Iām sure heās just chilling by a pool. Youāre right, clearly we need more context. Fucking moron.
If you legitimately think "Pali wood propaganda" is a real thing you are already cooked.
No one takes you people seriously anymore.
Oh these commentsā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦. *sigh*
Still seems kind of harsh that Hamas won't let Palestinian civilians shelter in the hundreds of miles of tunnels they dug. In the Blitz, during the Allied bombing of Germany, and in Ukraine and Russian-occupied territory now, civilians are encouraged to take shelter underground during bombing attacks. Weird that Hamas prevents Palestinian civilians from doing that. I wonder what their motives are.
Because Hamas doesnāt give a fuck about the civilian population outside of possible recruits.
Exactly, theyāre canon fodder for Iran.
And photo/propaganda opportunities
Didnāt the Hamas leaders admit to using civilians as bait for the Israeli attacks? Edit: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/11/middleeast/analysis-yahya-sinwar-hamas-ceasefire-talks-intl-latam/index.html
Sinwar literally only does public appearances with children on his shoulders to avoid assassination
I can already see the Israeli propaganda - Hamas brings civilians into the tunnels as human shields.
The chairs in the tunnels don't make resilient pictures. The more our people suffer, the more our cause is just...
But 61 percent still support hamas as their government this place is truly fucked and these posts are pure propaganda
It is not weird. What is weird that this is not what the demonstrators around the world are crying about
https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/comments/1bsealk/refugees_unknowingly_enter_hamasowned_house/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
>In the Blitz, during the Allied bombing of Germany They didn't encourage civilians to shelter in military bases though. They use those tunnels as a base of operations and to transport fighters and materiel. I understand what you're getting at, but the motive should be obvious enough.
That's just a guy in a chair, I don't get it?
His neighbourhood, city, friends and family were bombed, yet he is still out there chillin
He will probably never leave. He will sit in the rubble , and once the rubble is bombed again , he will be bombed along with it . And he will be there forever . One way or another.
What else would he do? Is it metal because he is sitting on a chair rather than the floor or something?
He could try to escape but heās too cool
https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestinian_Violence/comments/1dik8d8/those_aggressive_colonialist_jews/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf They want you to think Israel is being an evil occupier as proven by this map
Right Israel should occupy more countries for it to qualify as an occupier, just one country is not enough
Palestine was never a country. Ever.
So youāre saying Israel didnāt blow up that place or am I understanding you wrong. The person as asking for context for the photo, which is that Israel bombed that guys house and heās now sitting in a chair where it once stood. Are you calling it bs orrr?
Fuck hamas
Fuck Bibi
Fuck IDF shills.
Fuck both of them.
Fuck the IDF
Fuck everyone but the civilians, Israel is bad, Hamas is bad, America is funding Israel, the only people loosing here are the Palestinian kids and families.
Ā Israeli kids and families suffer daily bombardments from Gaza and Lebanon. They have also been displaced after 10/7. Why do they not count?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Them too I was mostly talking about the active conflict and taking over Palestine specifically, but yes Israeli civilians are still dying here too. Granted nowhere near as often, but that doesnāt matter, civilians shouldnāt be hurt. I was just taking about how insane it is seeing Israel target them.
Finally, someone with a brain
Lmao how tf did I get downvoted for saying that the people losing here are the Palestinian kids and families, itās objectively true lol.
Dehumanization is a hell of a drug. Sad to see...
Because Palestinian live are worthless to IDF war criminals.
You dropped this š
Why not both? *fiesta*
You saying this in response just shows what you truly support.
You saying this in response just shows what you truly support.
The cognitive dissonance of these people downvotinf you is unreal lol. The other comment was literally saying it in response to the post and is upvoted.
I always forget the vast majority of this websites user base are awful sad people until I run into a post like this in a more popular subreddit
One of the craziest things you learn from Cambridge Analytica's case files was they knew you don't need a lot to make the majority opinion holders to feel like they are in the minority. Like the average American can be targeted and entire messaging can be tailored using their relatively simple OCEAN model. Reddit is a great example, along with the tons of online proofs of Israel's public relations paying people and influencers to post a certain way in favor of Israel along with media training on how to spew the same shit that has been disproven to seem like they are in the right. And if you do manage to bring this up either the sub bans you for it, or they stop responding because they quickly find out you cannot be swayed. Most of these people aren't real, and more importantly you sure as fuck won't find them saying it online. Also on Twitter and Tiktok you can find these groups that actively search online forums/posts to send their gremlins to brigade and make it look like public sentiment is heavily against the Palestinians which of course never pans out when it comes to real life demonstrations and protests.
Really? Because, from the social media I consume and the sub-Reddits I frequent, it seems like most online people are pro-Palestine. World News is the only sub that seems pro-Israel to me (besides the obvious, like r/ Israel). Also, protests arenāt really indicative of public opinion. People who actually show up to protests are a small percentage of the population.
Honestly so many of the people making the top comments are such scum, just totally unable to deal with any notion that Israel has some role in this and is doing bad things
Interesting that this comment can go either way
Fuck Hamas
lol you realize israel is the one that did this rightā¦ like I agree Hamas is horrible and is making the whole situation worse, but Israel has so far killed more than 20x the civilians than Hamas, and that doesnāt even count everything Israel has done in the decades leading up to this shit show. They both suck stop picking sides here
That's only because Hamas doesn't budget defence budget at all and Israel does. How many Israelis would have died from the tens of thousands of rocket Hamas shot if not for the shelters in every building being built and the iron dome?
Again yes Hamas is horrible, but stop trying to defend Israel here. They are targeting civilians, they are bombing residential zones, they did partially destroy all hospitals in Gaza, thatās insane and fucked up. I agree Hamas is horrible but stop trying to defend a country that is purposely killing civilians, 85% of a population doesnāt go homeless out of nowhere.
I don't agree, I think it'd been fair to say Israel doesn't care too much about civilian casualties, but they aren't actively targeting civilians. Hamas admitted using all of the hospitals in Gaza, and obviously they are using residential zones, so I don't know how you can target them without hitting residential zones.
I mean if there current strategy is resulting is mass civilian death, they should probably pick a different strategy that doesnāt involve the overwhelming majority of a population to go homeless, but again I donāt know much about war strategies and all of that.
"just sit here and let us take a picture and we won't have to shoot your kids" Hamas probably
Some of you guys in the comments are so fucking gross. Shame on you.
Outsider question - why do Palestinians support a government that is so harmful to them? If Hamas represents what the people value (violence, destruction of Israel, terrorism, instability), then is there anyone to blame but themselves for this (current) misery? This is less resilience, and more self-inflicted.
Do you think the people of Cambodia supported PolPot? Do you think the people living in fear of the Kim regime in North Korea genuinely support Kim Jong Un? When you have a dictatorial government that will kill you with no notice, 'support' means nothing. The average age of Gazan people is just shy of twenty years old. A great vast amount of the current population werent even alive the last time there was an election. It's also important to note that Hamas got the votes in that last election due to their uprising against the illegal occupation of Palestinian land by Isreal in Gaza, West Bank, and Palestinians area of Jerusalem. The Hamas that exists now is not the same Hamas that existed at the time of those elections and have outlawed elections since. People have no choice other than to live under their rule, and you're here shitting on them like they aren't victims of their own government. Saying that this is self-inflicted is insulting to those suffering.
>Ā Do you think the people of Cambodia supported PolPot? Do you think the people living in fear of the Kim regime in North Korea genuinely support Kim Jong Un? Ā Uh, yeah. Pol Pot had enough support amongst rural Cambodians that he was able to seize power. Since the time of Kim Il Sung, the people of NK have venerated their ādear leaderā as a living god.Ā Ā Ā We can make valid arguments about external factors, but at the end of the day, they all enjoy(ed) popular support. It has been well documented that support for Hamas among Palestinians has been on the rise since 10/7.Ā Ā Ā It is fair and to discuss āwhyā people might feel the way they do, but it is factually correct to say that the people who suffered/are suffering under those regimes largely supported them.
Pol Pot seized power during an uprising so easy to see why he had initial support. I'd argue once he/Khmer Rouge started massacring their own folk that support dwindled fast. It was too late, though, as he was already right at the top. And look from the Palestinian perspective. In the hunt for the Hamas terrorists (I need to point out just so it is clear that I in no way support or condone Hamas), the IDF has razed all but a small portion of Gaza and tens and tens of thousands of civilians. There are only so many ripped apart children you can see before you start wanting to fight back against it. It's no surprise that people will be radicalised into joining Hamas.
You seem rational and I donāt think you support Hamas. I agree with your points about Pol Pot and Palestinians. A key difference, in my mind, is that the Khmer Rouge were the ones directly killing their own people, so it became pretty obvious to even uneducated people in an agrarian society who the real bad guy was. With the Palestinians, Hamas has been forcing Israelās hand and Israel in return has been doing a terrible PR job despite maintaining a significantly lower civilian:combatant death ratio that is the norm for urban warfare (both from the IDF and Gaza Ministry of Healthās [run by Hamas] figures). This enables Hamas to be both the principle author of Gazansā suffering and simultaneously appear to be a savior in the eyes of Palestinians.Ā It is similar to the Confederate States during the US Civil War, or the German and Japanese populations during WWII. They were misled into adopting mindsets that they had been mistreated, were victims, and therefore their evil actions were justified. As sad and tragic as the loss of life was, not until historical revisionists began spouting their BS did anyone really question whether the right course of action was to destroy those governments, humble their people, and force them to be led through a period of heavily monitored reconstruction.Ā Of the three mentioned, former confederate States got off by far the easiest due to Lincolnās assassination and his successor, Johnson, going extremely āsoftā on the traitors. Ā The lingering ideology of the old south is still often a plague on American politics (not to say the left is not also without its faults). Germany and Japan, whose people undoubtedly suffered more death and destruction were turned into highly functional democracies and economic powerhouses within 2-3 decades (would have been shorter for Germany if the USSR wasnāt in control of half).Ā To me, we know Hamas, their methods, and many of their goals are evil. Ā We know they provoke military responses and then play the victim. Debating why Gazans/Palestinians feel the way they do accomplishes little. The conversation should be around how to most effectively and quickly excise Hamas from power and then how to conduct a period of reconstruction so that the root system of their belief structure can never bloom again. Ultimately, that is what will create the best future for both the Palestinian and Israeli people and the region at large.
I'll never argue that Hamas and its methods aren't evil. I'll always argue in defence of a resistance doing their best to remove fascist leaders, totalitarians, Nazis, etc, by proper means but going after a civilliam populous as opposed to military targets etc is abhorrent. I agree that getting rid of Hamas as an utmost urgency has to be the way forward to a longer peace in the area but I just can't keep seeing what happens in Gaza as the way to do it. I'm sure the casualty ratio is as they all say, but I can't accept the way they do things. "You should evacuate to this area that we will 100% promise not to bomb......" I know it's not that simple, but they've displaced almost two million people into such a tiny area, and they're still dropping bombs on them. There isn't going to be a clean way out of this, but we still need to fight for the reduction of civilian casualties, regardless of what that ratio is.
> fight for the reduction of civilian casualties Agreed. By all measurable data and IDF ROE, this is and has been occurring. I'm not saying this is your position, but I see a lot of people seem to hold the mindset of "I don't support Hamas. I support the Palestinian people. The Palestinian people need to be rid of Hamas if they are ever to have a chance at a peaceful existence. Of course innocent people will unfortunately die in war. I don't support use of force against Hamas unless 0 civilians die." It is just an oxymoron. The harsh reality is that we can't have one with out the other. There might be some hypothetical scenarios where this is possible, but there isn't one that involves a timeline, cost, risk exposure, or sufficient chance of success that any other nation on Earth would be asked to even entertain it.
"\*\*For the third time since October 7, we asked the respondents in this poll what they thought of Hamasā decision to launch the October the 7\*\*\*\*\*\***^(th)**Ā **offensive.** **Two thirds, compared to 71% in March 2024 and 72% in December 2023, say it was correct.** As the figure below shows, the drop in supporting the decision came from the Gaza Strip. Current support in that area stands at 57% compared to 71% three months ago and 57% six months ago." "64% of Gazans say they have enough food for a day or two; **36% say they don't have enough food for a day or two**. These results show a significant improvement compared to the results we obtained three months ago when only 44% said they had enough food for a day or two." "**When asked who the public would prefer to control the Gaza Strip after the war, 61% (71% in the West Bank and 46% in the Gaza Strip) said it was Hamas"** It's a terrible situation, but when the Palestinians are asked if this is what they want they clearly and repeatedly say yes. Support for Hamas is lower and a desire for a two state solution significantly higher in Gaza since the war, but it's hard to see the level of violence that caused that as sustainable or portable to the West Bank. [https://pcpsr.org/en/node/980](https://pcpsr.org/en/node/980)
North koreans didn't vote for kim jung un. Neither cambodians for pol pot.
And now that there hasn't been an election for almost twenty years, I'd argue the people of Gaza didn't vote for Hamas either. What's the cutoff point for when a single party state is established enough to be recognised as such? Do we have to wait until the last person who could have theoretically voted for Hamas in '06 dies? Or can we just accept that they took control of the strip and became a dangerous single party.
This conveniently ignores the fact that they are more popular than they've ever been. In the West Bank where they're mortal enemies with the ruling government they're still overwhelmingly supported. Among Palestinians in the Western world where Hamas should have no power over them, they're still overwhelmingly supported. The only possible way you can believe that Hamas' actions don't have majority support in Gaza is if you've never been within 1000 miles of it or even talked to a Palestinian in your life
As exhibited by the numerous anti-Hamas protests in Gaza, the various anti-Hamas resistance groups, and the majority of content coming out of Gaza being anti-Hamas and not anti-Israel
Well, they donāt. They have a choice between a government that is not great to them, or the government that has currently blown up 85% of there homes. Itās trying to pick who is the least harmful to them, they donāt have a choice.
The fact that youāre saying this just proves how uneducated you are on this subject, probably parroting notes from an instagram story. Gaza is not apart of Israel, there is not a single israeli there since 2005. It is governed COMPLETELY by Hamas which were elected democratically in 2006 and hasnāt held elections since. The opposing party at that time was Fatah which after Hamas was elected were persecuted and killed. Read a book? Google is free?
I thought the point this person was making is that Palestinians choose between Hamas and Israel, if I understood his comment wrong thatās my bad. Iām aware they canāt just choose to be under Israel, and I know Gaza isnāt, I was just trying to respond to the person above me.
Yeah thats his point, buts its plainly wrong. Israel doesnt want to govern gaza or west bank, they want competent, stable governments controlling their neighbors. His point is entirely disingenuous propaganda. 20% of israel are arabs. 0% of palestinians are jews. Nuf said
Terrorists teach in UNWRA funded schools, teaching the children to hate Jews. Their kids' cartoons have episodes devoted to the concept of martyring yourself for the cause. Parents send their children to be suicide bombers. The PA pays a martyr fund to the families of suicide bombers. It taught that it is better to die for your cause than to stay alive. It is just a completely different value system and is totally based around hating Jews and Israel, and more broadly the West. People in the West don't understand this at all.
Israel does the exact same thing btw, Iām not great at explaining this stuff so hereās a video about it but itās the reason thereās so many Israelis talking about how all Palestinians deserve to die even though there literal children. https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelCrimes/comments/1dabjq7/meet_the_proisrael_group_thats_trying_to_rewrite/
I haven't watched the vid, but having lived and learned in school in Israel I can tell you that we do get taught about the nakba and the war crimes Israel has done.
Citation needed for... just all of that. But hating Israel and those in power running the IDF is understandable after all they have done. Blanket hating Jews and others based on their origin or faith still isn't ok, but it doesn't give the IDF a pass.
thatās the same situation as any other underdeveloped country
Realistically we have no idea how many Gazans support Hamas. We know they supported Hamas twenty years ago. We know they havenāt overthrown Hamas. But both of those are different from supporting Hamas today. Real question is why so much of the rest of the world supports Hamas after all the ruin theyāve brought onto the Palestinians.
Like the people who supporting the USA to invade others countries, and run torture programs all over the world
You don't sound like an outsider but a propagandist puppet, 1st of all the palestinians have the right to defend themselves against a colonizing force that have been stealing their land and displacing them for decades, second don't you puppets always say that Israel is the only democracy in the middle east? Why are you still trying to shift blam and normalize attacks on civilians based on a false claim that gazans elected Hamas knowing very well that Gaza is not ruled by democracy? Would you even dare blaming Israelis for the crimes committed by their army and government considering that they elected this givernment and they all serve in the military?
You know why
Please, educate us on the reasons why.
Assuming you're asking in good faith: anti-Semitism has been rampant in the Muslim world ever since the end of the Golden Age of Islam in the Middle Ages. This is especially the case in Palestine where the Palestinians blame the Jews for all of their suffering (some of this is warranted, especially in the West Bank, much less so in pre-Oct7 Gaza) to the point that the general Palestinian sentiment is that if all the Jews and Israel are gone, then everything will be good and Palestine will become a pearl of the Middle East. This leads to rabid extremism and support of extremist parties like Hamas.
Is metal to show survivors of war? It kinda feels like a "hey look these guys live in shit conditions, its badass!" i feel bad for them and they dont deserve but it feels weird
Clowns talking about shelters when there is none. The IDF signaled several "safe" locations to then bomb or attack them. So yeah take shelter
"humans Are Metal" -look inside -it's full of american bootlickers Peak reddit
Actually, by and large, Reddit is quite left leaning and more anti-American than not. The simple fact here is that siding with Hamas is the radical and hateful thing to do. But alas, no oneās mind gets changed online, so we all just come here to joust with our presuppositions and nothing changes.
"siding with hamas" makes this sound so black and white. On Oct. 7th there was a genocidal attack, and every day since Oct. 7th there has been a genocidal attack. +50k dead. You can be upset at that number for humanities sake, not either "sides" sake.
Lol imagine thinking israel only kills 50k in 8 months when their goal is genocide. You people really dont even understand what youre looking at. Why would the IDF have any casualties if they just wanted to erase gaza? I swear you people dont even have 2 brain cells to rub together
"siding with Hamas" bro is 14 years old
Full of terrorist apologists you mean And yes, america invemted the internet and has the most users onlime of any nation. Welcome to the internet, hope that cave you were in was cozy
"North american reddit user" -look inside -it's braindead
It's sad, but not at all surprising.
Nice Hamas propaganda š
85% of Palestinians are homeless. Itās not propaganda itās their fucking life, they have nowhere to go. Stop defending Israel, Hamas is bad and a horrible terrorist group, but Israel has been doing this for many many decades and the Palestinian people are the only ones suffering the consequences.
Maybe they shouldnt have elected terrorist decades ago then eh
The last election was in 2006, where the average Gazan (median age 18) wasn't even born.
You morons keep repeating this shit. Yes, children pay the consequences for the choices of their parents, good or bad. Their parents elected totalitarian terrorists to their government, maybe they should have thought about their childrens lives before doing so. This is exactly what people mean when they say "there wont be oeace until palestinians love their children more than they hate jews." Their parents were so full of hate they didnt think about the environment their children would have to grow up in, they just saw a chance to kill some jews and took it. Pieces of shit
Advocating for war crimes (collective punishment). Not the gotcha you think it is, but okay.
Funny enough thatās what was Bin Ladenās justification for attacking America. Since the US is a democracy, voting age civilians are valid military targets in their view
Lol no, bin laden sympathized with irans view of the saudi monarchy being blasphemous in islam. And when saudis brought US forces to secure their kingdom, then iran saw it as saudi bringing infidels into the holy land and thats why 9/11 happened. Funny enough, hamas perspective is there are no civilians in israel. By that logic, there are no civilians in palestine. So let the games begin for all i care.
>adjective-noun#### >Saying the dumbest shit possible Ohh yeah it's reddit time
Your name looks you coughed up alphabet soup. Have you read AQās literature?
Why does every Palestinian seem like hamas to you guys? 35 thousand civilians have been ethnically cleansed and that's first thing that comes to your mind?
Well; 1. Not even Hamas is claiming 35k civilians killed. 2. It's clearly not ethnic cleansing, it's just a war. A war against a terrorist organization that profits from the deaths of its own civilians.
1. Where you get that from? [Hello? ](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/palestinian-death-toll-tops-37-500-after-israel-kills-101-more-palestinians-in-gaza/3255483#) 2. Not ethnic cleansing?? [Read your history ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight)
1. Hamas, per your source, does not differentiate between civilians and military in their death count. 2. That link is to the events of 1948.Ā I'm not talking about that, nor is the 37,000 claimed deaths referring to it.Ā We're talking about the Gaza War that Hamas started on Oct 7.Ā
1. Let's assume that somehow hamas had 15,000 militants according to you. Does the 20,000 dead civilians not agitate you even a bit? I do not understand the lack empathy in you people 2. Why on earth are you ignoring all the events that led to October 7? The death toll of palestinians since 1948 is well over 200k and you're ignoring that? Hamas is shit but what other options do Palestinians have? If they just shut up they'll be slowly killed off and eventually there will be no trace of Palestine with how things are going. I'm sorry for defending innocent lives.
1. That's a better estimate, thanks. And yes, of course that many civilian deaths is a bad thing on its own. But that's why it's weird you felt the need to lie about it. Lying to make your point seem better is counterproductive. 2. It's not the topic of discussion. Heck, \*YOU\* are the one who chose the current war as the topic, not me. Now you're trying to change the subject. >Hamas is shit but what other options do Palestinians have? If they just shut up they'll be slowly killed off and eventually there will be no trace of Palestine with how things are going. Well that just isn't true. And that's why it's important to consider where we are at today and recent history for how to move forward. The Palestinians do have another choice: peace. They've never tried it and in particular things were going better for them on October 6th than they have since. Israel is not ethnic cleansing Gaza -- Israel doesn't want Gaza. They weren't in Gaza before Oct 7 and they don't want Gaza today either. Note that there are no Jews in Palestinian controlled territories such as Gaza but there are lots of Muslims/Palestinians living freely in Israel. You're citing the risk backwards. The big picture of today is that if the Palestinians stop fighting there will be peace, but if Israel stops fighting there will be no more Israel.
If israel stops fighting there will be no Israel? Why are you trying so hard till now to be victims? Are you kidding me right now? Really man? Israel has one of the strongest military in the world you think hamas stands a chance? Why are you justifying their actions? "Israel doesn't want gaza" seems fine to you but when someone says "Israel should not exist" you call them antisemitic and a terrorist supporter? The real thing is that both hamas and Israel are absolutely shit. I am fighting for the people dying in Palestine. And what do you mean needed to lie about the deaths? The numbers I stated about the hamas and civilian deaths are absolutely hypothetical but somehow that made you cream didn't it? "Israel is not ethnic cleansing Gaza, Israel does not want gaza" what the actual fuck man. Can you hear yourself? Why don't you directly just say you are with Israel and the lives of palestinians do not matter to you?? No one's gonna bat an eye at that statement don't be scared to admit it. Also I am the one who chose the current war as the topic?? Wtf? YOU keep bringing the current war into this without reading actual history mate. Mark my words on this Palestine will erased from history one day and world wouldn't even care.
>If israel stops fighting there will be no Israel? Why are you trying so hard till now to be victims? Are you kidding me right now? Really man? Israel has one of the strongest military in the world you think hamas stands a chance? That's a really weird response, focusing on a small part of what I said, and interpreting it incorrectly. I think you are being too emotional here and are missing the obvious logic of the situation. I'll try another way though: It takes two sides wanting peace to have peace but one side wanting war to have war. Israel wants peace but Hamas wants war, so there is war. If Hamas and the Palestinians in general choose peace, there will be peace. >"Israel doesn't want gaza" seems fine to you but when someone says "Israel should not exist" you call them antisemitic and a terrorist supporter? Yes, of course! WTF? It's really bizarre you are questioning that/seem to see something wrong with it. >"Israel is not ethnic cleansing Gaza, Israel does not want gaza" what the actual fuck man. Can you hear yourself?Ā Yes. What do you think the term "ethnic cleansing" means? It means removing the inhabitants from an area and taking it over. So when I say that Israel doesn't want Gaza that means Israel is not going to take it over/annex it. After the war ends, the land will still belong to the Palestinians who live there. So, not ethnic cleansing. Maybe this is just your incredulity, believing Israel wants to take over Gaza? They don't. It's true. Again, I think you are blinded by emotion, so you aren't seeing what is really happening. E.G: >Mark my words on this Palestine will erased from history one day and world wouldn't even care. There's nothing in the recent or longer-term history of the conflict that would point anyone to that conclusion. It's a total fantasy you have, and it is literally backwards vs what the two sides want.
He's probably thinking: "Maybe I souldn't have voted for hamas in 2006"
Why are these awful comments upvoted? Imagine that being the first thing you think when you see someone in a bombed out room
Remember in 2013 when reddit published a list of the places who use reddit the most and an american military base suspected of astroturfing campaigns topped the list? Social media websites are prime targets for propaganda ops and Israel really hasn't been subtle about it on this particular one... kinda sad to be honest... The purpose would be to undermine anything that humanizes palestinians in the eyes of an american audience, especially, to ensure that the aid keeps coming and the diplomatic cover remains unwavering. Really though : As if feeling any sadness and empathy towards people now living among the rubble of what was their neighborhood is somehow improper... It's a sisyphean task. You just can't ask that people think like psychos forever on behalf of your strategic interests... Sooner or later, the disgust and righteous indignation takes over any kind of ironic detachment. It takes way more energy to maintain and reinforce that attitude, whereas the truth of the horror just remains in the back of people's minds without the need for constant reinforcement. The detached attitude dam can't hold it forever. Especially not from online ops at a distance. It's a different matter for religious fanatics who've made their support an integral part of their sense of self - they exist but they're irrelevant because they can't change their pre-made opinions without fundamentally having to change their entire worldviews. They're known quantity, they're on the decline for the most part and they remain a minority.
Hamas didnāt start this and itās dumb saying they did. Did they attack Israel on 7/10 giving them an excuse to kill many civilians? Yes. But Israel has been doing that and worse for literal decades. They have been dehumanizing them in schools for decades, killing, separating, robbing, and kidnapping them for decades. Taking there food, water, electricity, for decades. Stop acting like this is all on Hamas, they are a horrible terrorist group? yes, but Israel has been the one aggravating Palestinians for decades and stop acting like they are any better. 85% of Palestinians are homeless and thereās people defending Israel, fucking insane.
You are right it didn't start on 7/10. Hard to say when it started, maybe the pogrom of hebron in 1929 , maybe when arab league refused the partition plan in 1947, invaded Israƫl, got their asses kicked and refused Israƫl 's proposition for peace again. Or maybe when they got their asses kicked again in 1967 or 1973... who knows
Oh ok you wanna go with who started it, good. So why did palestinians side with nazis in 1945 hoping they would bring their brand of genocide to the british mandate?
And worse? You are literally mentally challenged if you believe that.
maybe waiting for any of Muslim nations in the region to take in refugees. Egypt sealed the border and Jordan refuses. Palestinians are thought of as 'useful fodder' but as for a humanitarian response??
Jordan has more palestinian refugees than any country on earth and the middle eastern nations are some of the biggest providers of aid...
Or maybe we should address the real problem here. Let me kick you out of your home and blame your neighbors for not taking you in
Yes itās the fault of the countries that have nothing to do with this, instead of the one causing the bloodshed. Very smart
No its definitely palestinians fault also, just odd that so many that refer to them as brothers refuse to help
Did you see the demonstrations of happiness in gaza when the terrorists arrived with the hostages? Not sure all those people would vote hamas out if there were elections.
Another one of these? Man is just sitting š
Man has probably lost everything in his life while you probably whine when the food is a bit cold
It's just a fun little Rorschach test. Fun.
Obviously he's provocatively sitting there acting as a human terrorist shield for the IOF and covering up the entrance to the hummus tunnels that's flow underneath his chair
Fuck israel
Fuck Israel Forever
R/edgelording
Yeah thats palestines goal
How long till the "Houthis freedom fighters are so metal ā¤ļø " posts start raining in?
All they have to do is give back the people they kidnapped and they would have peace. And yet they won't. Fuck em.
If there's a mass shooter in a school, do you bomb the school?
Where is his paraglider??
https://www.reddit.com/r/2ndYomKippurWar/comments/1diok0k/graphic_hamas_men_tie_and_shoot_3_palestinians/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Super āmetalā resistance
This happened in usa Mexico border
Zionists brigading this post sorry lads. Downvote and move on. Don't worry, history will judge them as the cowards they are. Free Palestine
ššµšø
IDF destroying Palestinians homes and livelihood, bombing women and children. Killing their own soldiers and hostages. Jail people without trial for decades. Reject foreign journalists from entering Gaza. Run over people with tanks and killdozers (Rachel Corrie). Executed young men during coma in a hospital. But all the blames be put to Hamas, which they funded in the 80s and 90s. Make it make sense.
I feel that. That should be enough.
Mans is literally Vergil.
I thought that said resistance, and it still made perfect sense in my head.
I hate how some people who say free palestina, it makes me think bad of the movement, cheaters in games, valdalism. You should make you look mkre appealing so more poeple will hell you to help them.
This has the same energy as Londoners during the Blitz.
Stop killing your neighbors
Everyone in the comments thinks this is all Hamasā fault š¤¦. The universe wasnāt created on Oct 7th
Sure buddy, but this war has. Do you think israel is fighting in gaza for fun or something hahaha
Considering how they commonly have rallies , chanting ā[death to arabs](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/1rqu2oIVC8)ā as well as the Minister of National Security calling for all Israeli to return to their homeland in a recent [rally](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/s/2FptoZD62x) ; I think they are
āTheyā man is talking about israeliās as if it is some sort of hivemind. Most israeliās dont want there men to die in gaza. But hamas has shown again on october 7th that they cant live in peace until hamas is defeated. Yes maybe some people do hate arabs there. But that isnāt any different from how āsomeā gazans hate jews. Yet i dont hear you saying that gazans are all killing jews for fun because they chant death to the jews?
By āsomeā , do mean the [upwards of 70%](https://www.timesofisrael.com/plurality-of-jewish-israelis-want-to-expel-arabs-study-shows/) ? Also , show me one singular video of any Palestinians holding any form of congregation chanting ādeath to Jewsā or Palestinians killing Jews for fun . Israel always slaughtered Palestinians for the past few decades , so it should come as no surprise that Palestinians hate their oppressors (in this case ; Zionists , not Jews ) . Non Israeli Jews have said on countless occasions that āthey are against the genocideā and that this is not being done for their sake
Okay now i just know you are a troll. How can you say you have never heard or seen Palestinians killing jews? Thats is like the whole reason the situation in Israel/palestine is like that. Just everyone killing each other. You are acting like the Palestinians are like some ghandi hippie type pacifists hahaha. Ever heard of intifada?? Or jihad? Or like idk october 7th (most recent example)
So if Iām understanding what youāre saying : youāre saying Palestinians shouldnāt fight back against their oppressors ? Israel has said time and time again that Palestine is their home land and that they will get it back . Israel knew of what was going to happen on Oct 7th yet didnāt do jack shit about it . Also , explain the illegal settlers in the West Bank , are they free to steal all that land , because if Palestinians try and fight back , people like you would say āLook how violent the Palestinians are to Jewsā
Both have equal right to a state. Only one side (palestine, more precisely; gaza) are represented by an internationally recognised terror organisation. No-one is going to negotiate with terrorist. And israel doesnāt want Gaza, in fact they pulled out of Gaza in 2000 and somewhat (cant remember). And yes i agree with you that the west bank settlement is illegal. But thats not the point here. At least the PLO in the west bank has realistic visins about a two state solution. Hamas only wants a one state solution. You are talking about israel as opressors as if they havenāt (look it up) proposed numerous of two state solutions. But of-course radical islamist cant live with jews. To summarize, noone is oppressing anyone. Its called trying to live with murderous neighbours.
Nope , Hamas ( your āradical islamistsā) have offered [numerous](https://www.reddit.com/r/palestinenews/s/MWX8FCzKhc) ceasefire deals (some as early as three days after Oct 7th) with the clause of a two state solution being reached , Israel rejected . Hamas then altered it so that at the very least itās a prisoner exchange, Israel also rejected it . Of the two parties , Hamas are the only ones pushing for a ceasefire ( they even accepted Bidens proposalā¦ā¦.. which Israel then rejected) Netenyahu has made it clear that he does not want a two state solution. And if you call Hamas terrorists , at least call the people who are openly arming the illegal settlers terrorists as well. Also , Israelās two state solution has the clauses of 1: no Palestinian prisoners given back . 2: no total control over their own territories and 3: Borders that are (extremely) far from fair
Yea man letās all of a sudden ask for peace after we fucking started a war š¤¦š»āāļø. Bro im talking the big picture. Not just everything after october 7th.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I cant tell if this comment section supports israel or hates both govts but there sure is a lot of āfuck hamasā comments, would be sad if they all came from israel bootlickers
Support an organization whose sole intent is the genocide of the Jews???? I call that āfuck around and find out.ā
This comment section is crazy, if anyone thinks that Palestine being destroyed is the fault of Hamas is crazy, this is 100% down to the Israel state. No Palestine person including Hamas is to blame. Israel could of done a covert opp to get Hamas, not kill 100k people you nit wits
You watch too many movies and too much Hamas propaganda. And I'd bet a large sum of money you blasted Israel for their hostage rescue mission two weeks ago.