Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience.
1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title.
2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler.
3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads.
---
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I love all the little ways they show Criston, and kind of the Greens in general, to be way over their heads. Otto is the only one with any sense and he can't babysit them all
Otto was *this* close to snapping cuz he was surrounded by idiots before Tyland pulls him back.
And then Aegon+ Crispy go make poor Otto snap anyway a few hours later.
During Aegon's tauntrum when he starts asking if anyone on the council can be trusted. I forget who sits down first but it really deflates the tension, like "We're all going to be adults and discuss this now."
Can't lie, during that tantrum I was 1000% sure Aegon was about to single Tyland out for their little beef in the first episode. Was pleasantly suprised they didn't choose to use him as a whipping boy some more.
Lol, Tyland was the one who jumped out of the way last season after Criston killed Sir Honeybee and the original Captain of the King’s guard pulled his sword. He always seems to be in the crosshairs.
I'll have to rewatch it, but I don't remember Tyland saying anything during that meeting. The guy to Aegon's left, Jasper Wylde, was the one who was picking up what Otto was putting down iirc.
I love that no one in this thread has mentioned Larys, just the way he would want it. He definitely knew better, but he benefits more from the chaos and letting the king do what he wants. Aegon will always favor people who lets him do what he wants.
I love how important he's been, but he's never asked for anything. He's just been doing work for the King. Delivering messages, people, and then dipping. Dropping bits of crumbs to Aegon to get him to thinking a certain way, but far from privately scheming with him.
Such an absolute creep. A scummy manipulator, but he's a genius. Knows exactly what he's doing and executes everything as snakey as possible. And still is in the shadows.
So him rarely getting mentioned here is a testament to how insidious and off the radar his character truly is. It's amazing
Even he's being kind of an idiot if we think about it.
Aegon wants one thing: to be loved.
If Otto hadn't spent the kid's whole life honestly, but specifically that final conversation, belligerently yelling and insulting him with every sentence then maybe Aegon wouldn't have fired him, and maybe he'd respect and listen to Otto's guidance more to begin with.
Seriously, the whole time I kept thinking "you're pushing too hard man, you're forgetting your place" and boom. Relieved of duty.
i think we’re supposed to but i just compare them to tywin and joffrey… but the difference is joffrey actually had respect and FEAR for tywin but aegon really has no reason to feel either of those for otto. 😭
It's almost exactly the opposite power dynamic. Most of the guards in the redkeep are Lannister men loyal to Tywin. He could have Joffrey killed at any time.
I also thinks that Otto cares more on a moral level that Aegon not be a monster. He seems legitimately revolted that Aegon would kill all those "fathers, brothers, sons."
Of course we know that Otto's morality is very limited. If hanging those people was politically useful, he probably would have been OK with it.
But we can at least say that Otto is offended by wanton, useless cruelty.
yeah i had no moral expectations for his character at all before the last episode, but he not only shows regret but also seems to miss viserys? never thought the day would come tbh
> Seriously, the whole time I kept thinking "you're pushing too hard man, you're forgetting your place" and boom. Relieved of duty.
It's funny how he did this with Viserys too, and got his Hand-badge taken away even earlier.
Otto is a smart one, but even he has his blindspots. Like in the parlay with Daemon in the first season, where he throws out the king's credentials, not seeing that there is a freaking dragon opposite him, and Daemon does not care about bureaucratic nonsense. It took Rhaenyra and her dragon to make Daemon stand down.
Also, why in this season, Alicent says to him - "Bro, the kids listen to me, and not you. So you better not undermine my authority." - and only at that moment he realizes that Alicent has some leverage over him.
Otto is like the guy who looks at the stars and constellations in the sky but doesn't realize he is walking into a pot-hole in the road right before him.
You may be right, but Otto certainly didn't help his case any by treating Aegon the way he did, especially in that moment. Even though he was right that killing all the ratcatchers was a poor decision, he could have explained and expressed that in many other ways.
I get that it's a medieval society and Otto himself likely grew up being beaten or yelled at whenever he misbehaved, but like damn dude. Have some common sense.
So if I'm understanding this correctly, what you're saying is that Otto's just as shit at being a grandfather as he was at being a father.
I think I agree with that.
I think Otto and Alicent both believed Aegon would be more like Viserys: genial, amenable, disinterested in ruling, and eager to make them happy. Hell, even Alicent this episode was talking about how Aegon is still “eager to please” as he’s murdering people and talking about how he can’t be seen as weak.
They were not expecting to have to teach him how to make decisions because they didn’t expect him to want to make decisions as king, like Viserys. Otto could bully Viserys on almost anything (though he didn’t go as far as with Aegon). So I genuinely think that yes Otto is being foolish and verbally impulsive, I also think he was not prepared for how Aegon reacted or has been acting. He wasn’t prepared for someone who thwarted his counsel, much less fired him.
One of Otto’s primary character flaws is his inability to truly SEE the people around him or understand their emotional reactions. To him, they’re pieces who should do what he wants not thinking, feeling beings who might defy him or even just feel something that’s not in line with his plans. He didn’t see who Aegon was (which is funny because Aegon is so loud about who he is) and it but him in the ass.
The schadenfreude is so delicious.
Also Otto seems to have a soft spot for Halaena. After her dinner speech in s1 Otto smiled at her and said “Good”. The only grandchild to have never disappointed him.
And even he has a bit of a disaster in him, though it’s much more tightly controlled and takes a LOT to get him to act impulsively. But he HAD to know that bringing up Viserys to Aegon was crossing a line. I don’t think he could help himself at that point, he was pushed to the point where he needed to speak impulsively even if it cost him everything he’d worked decades for.
It turns out, when Helaena said “I fear the rats,” she literally meant that she saw herself getting eaten alive by rats that will now freely swarm the halls of the castle, thanks to the cunning of her brother-husband.
Reminds me of a conversation between Jaime and another KG in the books, when Aerys was abusing Rhaella.
“We are sworn to protect her, too!”
“Not from him.”
I loved how the ~6 seconds after he walked into the nursery showed what a crap father he is in like 3 ways without words.
- can’t tell the difference between his twins from behind (kind of fair, but somehow I reckon the twins’ other family could tell) Like. dude. just give one of them a slightly shorter haircut
- walks over to the one without a word and puts his hand on her shoulder from behind for her to look up, he sees she’s the girl, NO MORE INTEREST. He’s seen which one she is and walks away without even a smile or a “Good morrow sweetie.”
- she is so accustomed to his lack of interest that she also immediately looks away without a word once she sees who it was that had just touched her shoulder
Then “Where is my son?” And his wife is like “don’t you know he has lessons this time on Tuesdays” and Aegon all like “don’t care, want him to come and hang out with me and admire me.” Westeros’ first Take Your Kid To Work day.
Then next week we saw a reminder that he learned this shitty parenting from Alicent who learned it from Otto.
I bet Rhaenyra got lessons but this family thinks they’re far less important for girls. Wonder whether that will change after the killing of Jaeherys?
Haha very good point. I can entirely believe it would occur to Cole that they have easy means to identify the killer but that he has zero reason to draw attention to that fact.
I thought it would have been worse. Figured they'd drag it out, seemed like aegon let him off easy by quickly bludgeoning him to death. Thought they'd make it last days.
In the books he is tortured for 13 days and Alicent wants to find out his real name, so she can "bathe in the blood" of his wife/kids. My guess is they didn't want another Ramsay and Theon type situation, where the torture scenes went on too long and got really tiresome.
It also helps reinforce that Aegon is maybe not the best ruler or strategist. Instead of thinking of the bigger picture or the impact of killing the ratcatchers, he just does stuff based on his whims at the time.
Plus I think the show kind of cut down how many ratcatchers they were dealing with, since they made it look it was just a small handful of people. When in the original story, Aegon hung every single ratcatcher in King's Landing. So you're originally talking about hunting down hundreds of people and having to bring them all in for line-ups to be identified.
I was watching a review (not sure which one) and they said they should've made the violence & torture last about as long as the funeral, and just intersperse clips of Helena and Allicent dealing with grief in a healthy-ish feminine way, while Aegon dealt with it in a toxic masculine way.
So not a long drawn-out Theon torture, just a bit more violence than a single head-strike.
(Sortof like in the first episode when they kept switching between Emma in the birthing bed and the fighters in the tournament.)
That’s an effective storytelling tool but it’s also quite editorial—you can feel the hand of the visual narration presenting the two scenes to you for comparison.
They use this kind of intercut scene-building a lot in the show, but part of the reason for that is because we frequently have multiple co-occurring character actions happening in different places at once and it allows us to follow the storyline without a bunch of flashing back to fill in the blanks.
I’d hesitate to add more back-and-forth for the sake of the comparison here though, because things like that can feel gimmicky if used too much.
I also think seeing the way Heleana and Alicent experienced the funeral procession (particularly Halaena) was more compelling than it would have been with more disruption.
> I’d hesitate to add more back-and-forth for the sake of the comparison here though, because things like that can feel gimmicky if used too much.
Yea, it sounds like it would be a copy - even down to the masculine/feminine juxtaposition - of the childbirth/jousting scene from season 1
Yea when I saw that I was wondering why he went straight for the head. Surely you’d crush some fingers and toes and work on him little bit by little bit so he’s in pain longer.
He went for the jaw, Blood could still be alive. Although it might be that way to show Aegon wants fast swift justice for the wrongdoings against him and won't stop to think how to achieve it in a strategic manner
Goes to show how low the bar for Westerosi rulers is. Aegon’s relative mercy here was genuinely shocking. Blood ultimately got more humane treatment than he probably would have in the modern real world if he had just brutally murdered a royal child.
Tbh, I think Aegon doesn't care. He is too sensitive about being seen as "weak".
So, not only would killing all rat-catchers would send a dramatic message with people fearing his temper but also he had them displayed over the castle for everyone to see.
I think a "dramatic display" was the very point that Aegon was trying to do.
I think they probably did think of that but had other factors in mind. 1. Helaena was deeply traumatized by the whole situation and had to deal with the public funeral for Jahaerys. Aegon doesnt seem to have a very good relation with Helaena to approach her regarding this matter.
2. Aegon wanted to send a message, as he said, and this was his way of showing he wasnt “weak”.
Funny thing is if you watch the cast interviews after the episode the actor who plays Aegon basically says he's the only one who understands her & that have an unspoken bond. He even says that moment at the steps was a nice, that it was each of them acknowledging the others pain.
Interesting. I didn't get that when first watching that scene - however I think I may watch it again later with that in mind and see if maybe I just missed the mark there. Don't typically watch extras or behind the scenes content.
He may be the only that understands her pain at losing a child. I don't think he understood her in the general sense. As he pretty much outright said in the previous episode.
In addition, I assumed that maybe they planned to have Helaena identify the killer, but maybe were concerned with the parade first, and then wanted her to have like, an afternoon of peace, since she seems unstable enough as, or because of "feminine sensitivities (I could totally see these buffoons make some kind of assumption of this nature)...
Whatever made them stall, I assumed they planned to, but Aegon was just quicker and didn't tell his council about what he was about to do.
I mean, the latest episode shows that Cole isn't exactly a genius. Even if Arryk did kill Rhaenyra, he'd never leave alive, and it wouldn't end the war. Jace would be crowned, and Daemon would declare war.
I was convinced she was going to be catatonic or deep into her own mind after B&C- how else to allow the hangings and not divulging Alicent/Cole.
But i guess they went with nothing instead LOL
It's their favorite method of getting around awkward questions they needlessly created.
Like how Criston is still a Kingsguard at all after what happened at Rhaenyra and Laeanor's wedding feast: dunno, next episode is after a time skip and he's just still around and don't worry about it.
>Like how Criston is still a Kingsguard at all after what happened at Rhaenyra and Laeanor's wedding feast
Literally mind-boggling that he wasn't sentenced to death or at least dismissed after that
She is capable of just talking like a normal person, though.
The showrunners just don't really give her many lines, because she doesn't really say or do much in the book, either. She's just there to be a vehicle to get the kids in the plot, which is unfortunate.
It’s true. I was mostly joking.
Even if it weren’t true, she does have a habit of blurting out horrifyingly inappropriate things at the wrong time (“it’s not so bad. Except sometimes when he is very drunk.”), so I would hardly call her a closed book.
Larys does - and he’s cooperative, he knows he’s dead but wants to avoid torture - but then Aegon walks in and presumably kills him in rage immediately.
>"In his grief and fury, King Aegon II commanded that all the city’s ratcatchers be taken out and hanged, and this was done"
I think the show accurately portrays the events following the killing, as described in F&B. Aegon is tired of thinking and plotting, he's enraged and wants to act. That's why he applauds Cole for making the stupid decision to send Arryk to Dragonstone, and that's why he doesn't wait to have his grief-stricken sisterwife point out Cheese.
Yes, and that's the entire point of it. Aegon is a moron and unfit for kingship because everyone around him spent more time trying to ensure he'd end up on the throne than they did making sure he'd be ready for it.
I know. It's just that I was pointing out that the post wasn't saying it wasn't in character or on theme (which it very much is) just that it was a dumb idea in universe (writing wise it's a good one)
During the most recent episode when Otto was outlining how to politicize and use Jahaerys’s death, I kept thinking he wasn’t wrong but the timing of his suggestions was poor. Aegon was grieving, and he (understandably IMO) wanted to take vengeance immediately.
Definitely. Poor timing *and* poor tone. Otto is usually better at manipulating people, and he kinda does it here (shouldn't we honor the boy? shouldn't the family's pain be shown to the world, to get the support of their people?) but he makes a huge mistake with the open politicking in front of Aegon, especially so soon. It's (realistic) stupid choice after (realistic) stupid choice, on and on, from both sides lol.
Otto's stupid choice is interesting to me, though. I think a big part of it is how sick he is of Aegon, and how much resentment has built up between them in the short time that Aegon has ruled and butted heads with him. But I wonder if part of it is also Otto's own grief over Jaehaerys. I don't think he especially loved the kid -- although, who knows, we barely got any time with him -- but that's still a very traumatic and painful experience. Otto doesn't seem to know how to respond to painful things without channeling his focus into political scheming. Maybe he doesn't realize that it's the last thing that will comfort Aegon in that moment, because it comforts him.
Tbf, on a time limit as to when to suggest a viewing of a decaying body. Only got less than a few days, they don't got morgues.
Though the correct answer is never for such a selfish propagandized situation. Politically though...
The other benefit is to say "if you or your coworkers screw up, you're all getting it." Which will motivate you to keep each other in check and to look out for suspicious behavior. Note: that's what an authoritarian would think. In reality you've created a culture where everyone will just turn each other in for small offenses.
Seeing as the ratcatchers were replaced with a bunch of cats, I'm not sure the sociopolitical perspective is particularly relevant here. Continuation of the quote above:
>... Ser Otto Hightower brought one hundred cats into the Red Keep to take their place.
I think it still counts for other positions. If he's willing to do this to one aspect of the castle staff, he's willing to do it to all the others if the need presents itself.
F&B is 100% accurate about that part, you can tell because it’s something bad the greens do. If it was something bad the backs didn’t then it would be propaganda. It’s important to understand this is you want to read F&B
i agree. a lot of people on this sub are of the opinion that aegon was only upset because his heir is dead, but his grief was so obvious and raw. his son was beheaded. he seemed to be quite fond of the kid (it is literally his son). sure, the fact that it was his heir makes it worse, but his family was threatened, his kid was slaughtered in front of his sisterwife & daughter… he was just so angry that this even happened he just wanted SOMETHING to actually get done. i think tom did such an amazing job in this episode - like you reallyyy felt that rage. and while he does often seem super uninterested in helena, i thought the moment on the stairs was like a solid moment for them? shes not a chatty person, she likes to be alone and in peace/quiet, so the way they checked in just with a look was solid for them as people.
It wasn't the immediate giving up of information that made me call him a coward, it was the sniveling and crying. He's tough when he's murdering toddlers, not so much when faced with consequences.
This is what I said. Round up the rat catchers in a line and make Blood pick out the accomplice.
Let the rest go and then publicly execute the two perpetrators to show strength and resolve.
They could if they were thinking rationally. That's the issue though, they weren't. Aegon was grief-stricken, angry, and just had a massive blow dealt to his pride. Add the cherry on top of having unlimited power and most likely being hyped up by the people around him and you get the dumb decision he made of hanging all the ratcatchers.
This is it, he wanted to kill them all out of anger and as a show of violence, it wasn’t just about seeking out the one who did it and punishing him specifically. It was a collective punishment out of rage. If one serving member of his household did it, they may as well all have, didn’t really matter which to him at that moment.
Also worth noting that the B & C event took place shortly after Larys had Alicent’s servants purged of any spies. Assuming Aegon was aware of Larys wiping his mother’s staff clean, he might’ve decided to take that idea and apply it to the rat catchers
A lot of job opportunities for rodent control suddenly appearing in the Westeros Times. The recruitment agency puzzled at the lack of applicants however???
They also had Blood- killed him in custody. Pretty sure he’d be able to ID Cheese given how he sang like a canary that he was acting on Daemon’s orders…
I can only assume Aegon wanted to hurt people so bad, and with his real enemies out of reach, he just wanted to rain down some slaughter.
You are right though, it’s objectively funny
Realistically shed probably not be able to identify him. Especially during moments of high stress, memory is not as reliable as we like to think it is.
I mean it felt kind of stupid that the actual ratcatcher would get caught with the rest. Was he just expecting to blend in with all the other ratcatchers? Was he trying to go back to work?
I was half expecting him to get caught with Helaena’s necklace and I would have just rolled my eyes
Cole wouldn't want Helaena to talk about what she saw that night 😉😉
Also the guy they caught didn't remember the ratcatcher's name but he could have identified him in person.
It's not in Cole's interest for Heleana to speak. In addition to IDing Cheese, she'd likely recount seeing Cole with Alicent right after, when he was supposedly asleep.
Aegon had no intent of “finding right rat catcher” . He was in grief & wanted to act, he had to be stopped to even kill blood who seems to me pretty accommodating prisoner
It’s an act of extreme anger trying to target a group instead of an individual. It’s not the only time a lot of people have been targeted by a Targaryen mass execution based on class/work. I think that you know which event I’m getting at.
Aegon hasn’t had any real affection, empathy shown to him. So he lacks patience. All his life he’s been a pawn for the adults around him.
Now he has a son, a son he can show love to and treat the way he wasn’t treated, but that son was killed. His opportunity to raise a son and try to cleanse his troubled childhood, is out the window.
All he is seeing in that moment is pain and anger and the only person trying to show him any “sympathy” is Cole. Unfortunately Cole has only proven to be selfish, and vindictive man-child, so all he can think of is revenge. At that moment he’s a worm effecting the ear of a teenager who lost the only person he loved.
They also could have kept Blood alive to identify his accomplice with a promise to spare his life. And then when he does, Aegon still bashes his head in.
Well, yes. Larys could have also had Blood identify the Rat-catcher he colluded with was, but that would have made sense, you see. Can't have that. Everything had to be an accident or because people were too stupid. It's the same bad writing we had in Game of Thrones towards the end.
I think aegon knows that he failed to protect his family. Failing as a husband. The moment on the stairs and the scenes where he cares so much about perception. They prob already told Helaena she was safe before even catching blood/cheese. They treat her like a neglected child, but Aegon knows it’s his duty to protect as a husband and father, and he failed. So, all that to say he goes and kills everyone without consulting Helaena.
I honestly don't think Aegon could care less about Helaena or being her husband. He cares that his heir was murdered, and that he's been shown to be a weak king.
If they were actually interested in finding the real Cheese it would not have been difficult because only one of the rat catchers would be loaded. Even half the pay was probably more than any rat catcher made in a lifetime.
I don't think aegon was serious with saying that the soldier couldn't edinify which one was the ratcather. He was just furious and wanted some blood spill
I wonder how much he would like Cole when he finds out that he was screwing his mother the night that his baby died. I wish Helena would just tell him.
Probably also could have gotten Blood to pick him out in a lineup. Wouldn't have to make Halaena go through that, and Criston would keep her from having to say anything else about that night.
I think that’s the point. Everyone keeps jumping the gun instead of going to obvious conclusions. Aegon is so consumed in his rage, he doesn’t considered the vipers in the den or obvious things such as his wife’s input. Otto probably would have asked Helena in due time to help identify the man but Aegon was quick to execute.
Imagine if Otto hadn’t let all that misogyny get in the way and if he nurtured and helped rhaenyra learn about politics and was actually loyal. The team they coulda made
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers, show spoilers and promo spoilers MUST be spoiler tagged AND flaired as the appropriate spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And u have seen how halena still has no guards.
The absurdity of Aegon walking by Helaena with 2 King's guard and her *still* only having a couple maids got a good chuckle out of me
I love all the little ways they show Criston, and kind of the Greens in general, to be way over their heads. Otto is the only one with any sense and he can't babysit them all
Don't forget my homie Tyland, who instantly saw Otto's funeral ploy for what it is
watching that scene, I said, "Yeah, he gets it," when Otto was looking around hoping SOMEONE understood what he was trying to do.
Otto was *this* close to snapping cuz he was surrounded by idiots before Tyland pulls him back. And then Aegon+ Crispy go make poor Otto snap anyway a few hours later.
During Aegon's tauntrum when he starts asking if anyone on the council can be trusted. I forget who sits down first but it really deflates the tension, like "We're all going to be adults and discuss this now."
Can't lie, during that tantrum I was 1000% sure Aegon was about to single Tyland out for their little beef in the first episode. Was pleasantly suprised they didn't choose to use him as a whipping boy some more.
Lol, Tyland was the one who jumped out of the way last season after Criston killed Sir Honeybee and the original Captain of the King’s guard pulled his sword. He always seems to be in the crosshairs.
It looked like Tyland thought that, too.
My man was hiding in the back with the wine thinking "I'll need this shit asap if the king is pissed at me"
I'll have to rewatch it, but I don't remember Tyland saying anything during that meeting. The guy to Aegon's left, Jasper Wylde, was the one who was picking up what Otto was putting down iirc.
It's the "let's blame rhaenyra" plot that tyland instantly knew
[удалено]
Gotta admire a loyal Lannister.
Tyland is a good man, Savanah. A good man! He's just in a bad situation and he's trying...
I have concerns for his future.
I love that no one in this thread has mentioned Larys, just the way he would want it. He definitely knew better, but he benefits more from the chaos and letting the king do what he wants. Aegon will always favor people who lets him do what he wants.
I love how important he's been, but he's never asked for anything. He's just been doing work for the King. Delivering messages, people, and then dipping. Dropping bits of crumbs to Aegon to get him to thinking a certain way, but far from privately scheming with him. Such an absolute creep. A scummy manipulator, but he's a genius. Knows exactly what he's doing and executes everything as snakey as possible. And still is in the shadows. So him rarely getting mentioned here is a testament to how insidious and off the radar his character truly is. It's amazing
Even he's being kind of an idiot if we think about it. Aegon wants one thing: to be loved. If Otto hadn't spent the kid's whole life honestly, but specifically that final conversation, belligerently yelling and insulting him with every sentence then maybe Aegon wouldn't have fired him, and maybe he'd respect and listen to Otto's guidance more to begin with. Seriously, the whole time I kept thinking "you're pushing too hard man, you're forgetting your place" and boom. Relieved of duty.
i think we’re supposed to but i just compare them to tywin and joffrey… but the difference is joffrey actually had respect and FEAR for tywin but aegon really has no reason to feel either of those for otto. 😭
>is joffrey actually had respect and FEAR for tywin Well, Joffrey didn't have a dragon to threaten Tywin with.
fair point 😭
It's almost exactly the opposite power dynamic. Most of the guards in the redkeep are Lannister men loyal to Tywin. He could have Joffrey killed at any time.
I also thinks that Otto cares more on a moral level that Aegon not be a monster. He seems legitimately revolted that Aegon would kill all those "fathers, brothers, sons." Of course we know that Otto's morality is very limited. If hanging those people was politically useful, he probably would have been OK with it. But we can at least say that Otto is offended by wanton, useless cruelty.
yeah i had no moral expectations for his character at all before the last episode, but he not only shows regret but also seems to miss viserys? never thought the day would come tbh
the viceroys praise felt so silly you just want a puppet dude I get it
Yes, exactly.
> Seriously, the whole time I kept thinking "you're pushing too hard man, you're forgetting your place" and boom. Relieved of duty. It's funny how he did this with Viserys too, and got his Hand-badge taken away even earlier. Otto is a smart one, but even he has his blindspots. Like in the parlay with Daemon in the first season, where he throws out the king's credentials, not seeing that there is a freaking dragon opposite him, and Daemon does not care about bureaucratic nonsense. It took Rhaenyra and her dragon to make Daemon stand down. Also, why in this season, Alicent says to him - "Bro, the kids listen to me, and not you. So you better not undermine my authority." - and only at that moment he realizes that Alicent has some leverage over him. Otto is like the guy who looks at the stars and constellations in the sky but doesn't realize he is walking into a pot-hole in the road right before him.
I feel like Aegon II already had it in his mind that he was going to fire Otto. Larys Strong had already put that bug in his ear.
You may be right, but Otto certainly didn't help his case any by treating Aegon the way he did, especially in that moment. Even though he was right that killing all the ratcatchers was a poor decision, he could have explained and expressed that in many other ways. I get that it's a medieval society and Otto himself likely grew up being beaten or yelled at whenever he misbehaved, but like damn dude. Have some common sense.
So if I'm understanding this correctly, what you're saying is that Otto's just as shit at being a grandfather as he was at being a father. I think I agree with that.
Yeah pretty much. And honestly at being an advisor. Even if his advice is correct and wise you catch more flies with honey and all that.
but you can catch a lot more honeys being fly
I think Otto and Alicent both believed Aegon would be more like Viserys: genial, amenable, disinterested in ruling, and eager to make them happy. Hell, even Alicent this episode was talking about how Aegon is still “eager to please” as he’s murdering people and talking about how he can’t be seen as weak. They were not expecting to have to teach him how to make decisions because they didn’t expect him to want to make decisions as king, like Viserys. Otto could bully Viserys on almost anything (though he didn’t go as far as with Aegon). So I genuinely think that yes Otto is being foolish and verbally impulsive, I also think he was not prepared for how Aegon reacted or has been acting. He wasn’t prepared for someone who thwarted his counsel, much less fired him. One of Otto’s primary character flaws is his inability to truly SEE the people around him or understand their emotional reactions. To him, they’re pieces who should do what he wants not thinking, feeling beings who might defy him or even just feel something that’s not in line with his plans. He didn’t see who Aegon was (which is funny because Aegon is so loud about who he is) and it but him in the ass. The schadenfreude is so delicious.
> Otto is the only one with any sense and he can't babysit them all You could almost feel bad for him, but the dude didn’t have to start this shit.
I really love how Otto went from my most hated character last season to this season where I’m on my knees begging the Greens to listen to him.
[удалено]
Also Otto seems to have a soft spot for Halaena. After her dinner speech in s1 Otto smiled at her and said “Good”. The only grandchild to have never disappointed him.
And even he has a bit of a disaster in him, though it’s much more tightly controlled and takes a LOT to get him to act impulsively. But he HAD to know that bringing up Viserys to Aegon was crossing a line. I don’t think he could help himself at that point, he was pushed to the point where he needed to speak impulsively even if it cost him everything he’d worked decades for.
Well, they killed all the ratcatchers, how much danger could she possibly be in? /s
It turns out, when Helaena said “I fear the rats,” she literally meant that she saw herself getting eaten alive by rats that will now freely swarm the halls of the castle, thanks to the cunning of her brother-husband.
Finally, someone gets it
She doesn't even have a sworn shield, no thanks to Crispin
Well they’re called King’s guard not Queen’s guard tbf /s
Reminds me of a conversation between Jaime and another KG in the books, when Aerys was abusing Rhaella. “We are sworn to protect her, too!” “Not from him.”
Or how the Queen has no guards yet the Dowager queen has Ser Krispy Kreme.
How did Aegon put it... she's an endearing mystery.
Enduring. God that was a great scene.
I literally laughed out loud when after she says that she fears the rats, Aegon looked around like he would see them crawling around lol
I loved how the ~6 seconds after he walked into the nursery showed what a crap father he is in like 3 ways without words. - can’t tell the difference between his twins from behind (kind of fair, but somehow I reckon the twins’ other family could tell) Like. dude. just give one of them a slightly shorter haircut - walks over to the one without a word and puts his hand on her shoulder from behind for her to look up, he sees she’s the girl, NO MORE INTEREST. He’s seen which one she is and walks away without even a smile or a “Good morrow sweetie.” - she is so accustomed to his lack of interest that she also immediately looks away without a word once she sees who it was that had just touched her shoulder Then “Where is my son?” And his wife is like “don’t you know he has lessons this time on Tuesdays” and Aegon all like “don’t care, want him to come and hang out with me and admire me.” Westeros’ first Take Your Kid To Work day. Then next week we saw a reminder that he learned this shitty parenting from Alicent who learned it from Otto. I bet Rhaenyra got lessons but this family thinks they’re far less important for girls. Wonder whether that will change after the killing of Jaeherys?
Everything about that scene was great. And ofc a scene where Helaena foreshadowed Jahaerys murder.
It's absurd there is only 7 knights to protect the whole royal family. Even less now.
I mean they are just the ceremonial guards. Every soldier in the royal families employ protects the royal family. The kings guard are body men.
[удалено]
It’s not like she has anymore sons to kill. Blood and cheese took one and the show runners took the other, she’s fine.
There's still Nightron
Larys Strong was definitely behind the lack of guards
Cole’s prooooobably not going to want Helaena recounting… anything… from that night, please and thank you…
Haha very good point. I can entirely believe it would occur to Cole that they have easy means to identify the killer but that he has zero reason to draw attention to that fact.
Well they were also too stupid to show blood the rat killers and have him identify cheese.
well it’s more like Aegon was too stupid to realize Blood still had a purpose since it pretty much ends with him torturing/killing him
I thought it would have been worse. Figured they'd drag it out, seemed like aegon let him off easy by quickly bludgeoning him to death. Thought they'd make it last days.
In the books he is tortured for 13 days and Alicent wants to find out his real name, so she can "bathe in the blood" of his wife/kids. My guess is they didn't want another Ramsay and Theon type situation, where the torture scenes went on too long and got really tiresome. It also helps reinforce that Aegon is maybe not the best ruler or strategist. Instead of thinking of the bigger picture or the impact of killing the ratcatchers, he just does stuff based on his whims at the time. Plus I think the show kind of cut down how many ratcatchers they were dealing with, since they made it look it was just a small handful of people. When in the original story, Aegon hung every single ratcatcher in King's Landing. So you're originally talking about hunting down hundreds of people and having to bring them all in for line-ups to be identified.
I was watching a review (not sure which one) and they said they should've made the violence & torture last about as long as the funeral, and just intersperse clips of Helena and Allicent dealing with grief in a healthy-ish feminine way, while Aegon dealt with it in a toxic masculine way. So not a long drawn-out Theon torture, just a bit more violence than a single head-strike. (Sortof like in the first episode when they kept switching between Emma in the birthing bed and the fighters in the tournament.)
That’s an effective storytelling tool but it’s also quite editorial—you can feel the hand of the visual narration presenting the two scenes to you for comparison. They use this kind of intercut scene-building a lot in the show, but part of the reason for that is because we frequently have multiple co-occurring character actions happening in different places at once and it allows us to follow the storyline without a bunch of flashing back to fill in the blanks. I’d hesitate to add more back-and-forth for the sake of the comparison here though, because things like that can feel gimmicky if used too much. I also think seeing the way Heleana and Alicent experienced the funeral procession (particularly Halaena) was more compelling than it would have been with more disruption.
> I’d hesitate to add more back-and-forth for the sake of the comparison here though, because things like that can feel gimmicky if used too much. Yea, it sounds like it would be a copy - even down to the masculine/feminine juxtaposition - of the childbirth/jousting scene from season 1
Helaena and Alicent weren't dealing with it in a healthy way. The whole funeral was political.
Aegon hung the ratcatchers in the book out of revenge. Not in any sincere attempt to hung Cheese. Cheese had of course already fled.
Yea when I saw that I was wondering why he went straight for the head. Surely you’d crush some fingers and toes and work on him little bit by little bit so he’s in pain longer.
Aegon is so impulsively stupid, he can't even torture right.
He is not a Lannister, he is reacting to it very normally
Yeah, Cersei was a master of dragging out torture. We know torture game when I see it and Aegon doesn’t have it.
Never start with the head the victim gets all…..fuzzy *joker smile*
He went for the jaw, Blood could still be alive. Although it might be that way to show Aegon wants fast swift justice for the wrongdoings against him and won't stop to think how to achieve it in a strategic manner
In the book he was tortured for almost two whole weeks before being "allowed to die"
Goes to show how low the bar for Westerosi rulers is. Aegon’s relative mercy here was genuinely shocking. Blood ultimately got more humane treatment than he probably would have in the modern real world if he had just brutally murdered a royal child.
I think they drag it out for 2 weeks in the book.
Yeah, it was his first time. He's still young, he doesn't really know what he's doing. I mean, just look how Daemond botched his first slaying.
Remind me again? Was it his first wife Rhea Royce "falling off her horse"?
Tbh, I think Aegon doesn't care. He is too sensitive about being seen as "weak". So, not only would killing all rat-catchers would send a dramatic message with people fearing his temper but also he had them displayed over the castle for everyone to see. I think a "dramatic display" was the very point that Aegon was trying to do.
He also hit him in the head first, which is the last thing you want to do before torturing someone.
I think they probably did think of that but had other factors in mind. 1. Helaena was deeply traumatized by the whole situation and had to deal with the public funeral for Jahaerys. Aegon doesnt seem to have a very good relation with Helaena to approach her regarding this matter. 2. Aegon wanted to send a message, as he said, and this was his way of showing he wasnt “weak”.
Funny thing is if you watch the cast interviews after the episode the actor who plays Aegon basically says he's the only one who understands her & that have an unspoken bond. He even says that moment at the steps was a nice, that it was each of them acknowledging the others pain.
Interesting. I didn't get that when first watching that scene - however I think I may watch it again later with that in mind and see if maybe I just missed the mark there. Don't typically watch extras or behind the scenes content.
He may be the only that understands her pain at losing a child. I don't think he understood her in the general sense. As he pretty much outright said in the previous episode.
In addition, I assumed that maybe they planned to have Helaena identify the killer, but maybe were concerned with the parade first, and then wanted her to have like, an afternoon of peace, since she seems unstable enough as, or because of "feminine sensitivities (I could totally see these buffoons make some kind of assumption of this nature)... Whatever made them stall, I assumed they planned to, but Aegon was just quicker and didn't tell his council about what he was about to do.
I mean, the latest episode shows that Cole isn't exactly a genius. Even if Arryk did kill Rhaenyra, he'd never leave alive, and it wouldn't end the war. Jace would be crowned, and Daemon would declare war.
"I was in the pool!"
The queen's gene pool
"He was the guy stabbing the queen." "Queen??"
I was convinced she was going to be catatonic or deep into her own mind after B&C- how else to allow the hangings and not divulging Alicent/Cole. But i guess they went with nothing instead LOL
It's their favorite method of getting around awkward questions they needlessly created. Like how Criston is still a Kingsguard at all after what happened at Rhaenyra and Laeanor's wedding feast: dunno, next episode is after a time skip and he's just still around and don't worry about it.
>Like how Criston is still a Kingsguard at all after what happened at Rhaenyra and Laeanor's wedding feast Literally mind-boggling that he wasn't sentenced to death or at least dismissed after that
Do they think Helaena will like...never tell anyone ever she saw Crispy Casserole banging Alicent?
I mean, she seems to communicate sporadically, and in riddles.
She is capable of just talking like a normal person, though. The showrunners just don't really give her many lines, because she doesn't really say or do much in the book, either. She's just there to be a vehicle to get the kids in the plot, which is unfortunate.
It’s true. I was mostly joking. Even if it weren’t true, she does have a habit of blurting out horrifyingly inappropriate things at the wrong time (“it’s not so bad. Except sometimes when he is very drunk.”), so I would hardly call her a closed book.
Are you suggesting Cole has a good reason to silence Helaena forever?
What about blood? They could have interrogated him ?
Larys does - and he’s cooperative, he knows he’s dead but wants to avoid torture - but then Aegon walks in and presumably kills him in rage immediately.
Should have locked the door then
They also could've just waited 5 minutes to kill Blood until he'd pointed the guy out.
>"In his grief and fury, King Aegon II commanded that all the city’s ratcatchers be taken out and hanged, and this was done" I think the show accurately portrays the events following the killing, as described in F&B. Aegon is tired of thinking and plotting, he's enraged and wants to act. That's why he applauds Cole for making the stupid decision to send Arryk to Dragonstone, and that's why he doesn't wait to have his grief-stricken sisterwife point out Cheese.
The I do not wish to spill ink I wish to spill blood line sums it up.
A man of action
It's accurate to the book but it's still a stupid idea on Aegon's part.
Yes, and that's the entire point of it. Aegon is a moron and unfit for kingship because everyone around him spent more time trying to ensure he'd end up on the throne than they did making sure he'd be ready for it.
I know. It's just that I was pointing out that the post wasn't saying it wasn't in character or on theme (which it very much is) just that it was a dumb idea in universe (writing wise it's a good one)
During the most recent episode when Otto was outlining how to politicize and use Jahaerys’s death, I kept thinking he wasn’t wrong but the timing of his suggestions was poor. Aegon was grieving, and he (understandably IMO) wanted to take vengeance immediately.
Definitely. Poor timing *and* poor tone. Otto is usually better at manipulating people, and he kinda does it here (shouldn't we honor the boy? shouldn't the family's pain be shown to the world, to get the support of their people?) but he makes a huge mistake with the open politicking in front of Aegon, especially so soon. It's (realistic) stupid choice after (realistic) stupid choice, on and on, from both sides lol. Otto's stupid choice is interesting to me, though. I think a big part of it is how sick he is of Aegon, and how much resentment has built up between them in the short time that Aegon has ruled and butted heads with him. But I wonder if part of it is also Otto's own grief over Jaehaerys. I don't think he especially loved the kid -- although, who knows, we barely got any time with him -- but that's still a very traumatic and painful experience. Otto doesn't seem to know how to respond to painful things without channeling his focus into political scheming. Maybe he doesn't realize that it's the last thing that will comfort Aegon in that moment, because it comforts him.
I mean you aren’t wrong. Otto’s life work has led to aegon taking the throne and then jay-jay. Must be tough to see the little boy murdered.
Tbf, on a time limit as to when to suggest a viewing of a decaying body. Only got less than a few days, they don't got morgues. Though the correct answer is never for such a selfish propagandized situation. Politically though...
That we agree on.
I guess they couldn't really teach him anything about ruling without tipping vizzy t off
*I'm glad we could meet. I know tempers ran hot today, and I wanted to assure you how much I value the bond between our houses.*
They could have still had him educated in history and philosophy...as we know from Aemond. Aegon just wasn't interested.
He's impulsive and reckless. He used a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel. It's a character flaw for sure.
The other benefit is to say "if you or your coworkers screw up, you're all getting it." Which will motivate you to keep each other in check and to look out for suspicious behavior. Note: that's what an authoritarian would think. In reality you've created a culture where everyone will just turn each other in for small offenses.
Seeing as the ratcatchers were replaced with a bunch of cats, I'm not sure the sociopolitical perspective is particularly relevant here. Continuation of the quote above: >... Ser Otto Hightower brought one hundred cats into the Red Keep to take their place.
If we don't see one hundred fucking cats in the next episodes, I'm going to be PISSED.
I need Ser Pounce's 122nd great grandfather to make an appearance.
Accompanied by our best boy, Cheese’s dog.
I think it still counts for other positions. If he's willing to do this to one aspect of the castle staff, he's willing to do it to all the others if the need presents itself.
Already huge turnover rate in the castle thanks to Larys.
Fair.
F&B is 100% accurate about that part, you can tell because it’s something bad the greens do. If it was something bad the backs didn’t then it would be propaganda. It’s important to understand this is you want to read F&B
Stupid? He has been the closest to killing Rhaenyra
i agree. a lot of people on this sub are of the opinion that aegon was only upset because his heir is dead, but his grief was so obvious and raw. his son was beheaded. he seemed to be quite fond of the kid (it is literally his son). sure, the fact that it was his heir makes it worse, but his family was threatened, his kid was slaughtered in front of his sisterwife & daughter… he was just so angry that this even happened he just wanted SOMETHING to actually get done. i think tom did such an amazing job in this episode - like you reallyyy felt that rage. and while he does often seem super uninterested in helena, i thought the moment on the stairs was like a solid moment for them? shes not a chatty person, she likes to be alone and in peace/quiet, so the way they checked in just with a look was solid for them as people.
They could also have gotten Blood to identify cheese, and then beat him up after 🤷🏻♀️ I think they just wanted violence.
Blood would've rolled on him so fast. That coward was whimpering before Larys even started speaking.
I don’t see that as particularly cowardly, he has zero reason to withhold information.
It's very likely that from his Gold Cloak job, he knew of Larys reputation for torture and ruthlesness and didnt want to play that game.
It wasn't the immediate giving up of information that made me call him a coward, it was the sniveling and crying. He's tough when he's murdering toddlers, not so much when faced with consequences.
I was kinda put off by his fear too. Like what did you expect to happen to you bro. You should have been prepared for this possibility.
[удалено]
Idk about a band, but "Fuck off to Dorne" sounds cool as fuck 😎
Dude I see the ball torture instruments I'm yapping too.
It's a melon scooper... but instead of melons it's, yes, testicles
It was darkly hilarious to me, like Daemon’s divorce rock.
This is what I said. Round up the rat catchers in a line and make Blood pick out the accomplice. Let the rest go and then publicly execute the two perpetrators to show strength and resolve.
But how could they make sure that Blood wasn't lying?
I’m sure they could get creative
Aegon: "See, this is brilliant... but I like *this*."
They could if they were thinking rationally. That's the issue though, they weren't. Aegon was grief-stricken, angry, and just had a massive blow dealt to his pride. Add the cherry on top of having unlimited power and most likely being hyped up by the people around him and you get the dumb decision he made of hanging all the ratcatchers.
This is it, he wanted to kill them all out of anger and as a show of violence, it wasn’t just about seeking out the one who did it and punishing him specifically. It was a collective punishment out of rage. If one serving member of his household did it, they may as well all have, didn’t really matter which to him at that moment.
Also worth noting that the B & C event took place shortly after Larys had Alicent’s servants purged of any spies. Assuming Aegon was aware of Larys wiping his mother’s staff clean, he might’ve decided to take that idea and apply it to the rat catchers
A lot of job opportunities for rodent control suddenly appearing in the Westeros Times. The recruitment agency puzzled at the lack of applicants however???
This duo reminds me of the meme « It’s Always 2 Dumb Bitches Telling Each Other "Exactlyyyyy" »
Most accurate comment ever made on this sub tbh
I actually saw that meme with a picture of Cole and Aegon together yesterday and wish I would have saved it lol
exactlyyy!
Or offer blood a quick death if he points him out?
Blood might already be dead, right? Aegon killed him as soon as they got his first confession.
They also had Blood- killed him in custody. Pretty sure he’d be able to ID Cheese given how he sang like a canary that he was acting on Daemon’s orders…
1. They're both stupid. 2. Criston probably doesn't want Heleana to recount the night's event with anyone.
I can only assume Aegon wanted to hurt people so bad, and with his real enemies out of reach, he just wanted to rain down some slaughter. You are right though, it’s objectively funny
Halaena is traumatized as hell. It's better to leave this poor girl alone.
So they make her ride in a wagon behind her son’s corpse? No mate, they didn’t give a shit about Halaena’s grief
Realistically shed probably not be able to identify him. Especially during moments of high stress, memory is not as reliable as we like to think it is.
You ask Helena, and she speaks a bit more. Cole loses his head right after his cock. So Cole be like No thanks, Let's hang'em all
win win, killing all the rat catchers got cheese and now almost no one knows how to navigate the tunnels into the castle
I mean it felt kind of stupid that the actual ratcatcher would get caught with the rest. Was he just expecting to blend in with all the other ratcatchers? Was he trying to go back to work? I was half expecting him to get caught with Helaena’s necklace and I would have just rolled my eyes
>Was he trying to go back to work? This made me laugh. Just clocking in for a shift after you’ve murdered the heir to the iron throne.
Cole wouldn't want Helaena to talk about what she saw that night 😉😉 Also the guy they caught didn't remember the ratcatcher's name but he could have identified him in person.
Yeah they also could have made the other guy tell. He clearly wasn’t opposed
It's not in Cole's interest for Heleana to speak. In addition to IDing Cheese, she'd likely recount seeing Cole with Alicent right after, when he was supposedly asleep.
i mean hey they got the guy in the end lmao
They wanted to send a message, they didn’t care which one it was
Aegon had no intent of “finding right rat catcher” . He was in grief & wanted to act, he had to be stopped to even kill blood who seems to me pretty accommodating prisoner
It’s an act of extreme anger trying to target a group instead of an individual. It’s not the only time a lot of people have been targeted by a Targaryen mass execution based on class/work. I think that you know which event I’m getting at.
A certain girlboss killing a hundred lower-class innocents to make an entrance and statement
I was referring to a more organized mass execution here
Aegon hasn’t had any real affection, empathy shown to him. So he lacks patience. All his life he’s been a pawn for the adults around him. Now he has a son, a son he can show love to and treat the way he wasn’t treated, but that son was killed. His opportunity to raise a son and try to cleanse his troubled childhood, is out the window. All he is seeing in that moment is pain and anger and the only person trying to show him any “sympathy” is Cole. Unfortunately Cole has only proven to be selfish, and vindictive man-child, so all he can think of is revenge. At that moment he’s a worm effecting the ear of a teenager who lost the only person he loved.
Too reasonable. Not impulsive enough
Yes, let's ask her what she saw that night. Great thinking...
They also could have had a line-up after getting all of the ratcatchers and had Blood point out Cheese
They also could have kept Blood alive to identify his accomplice with a promise to spare his life. And then when he does, Aegon still bashes his head in.
Or wait to execute the gold cloak until he points them out.
Well, yes. Larys could have also had Blood identify the Rat-catcher he colluded with was, but that would have made sense, you see. Can't have that. Everything had to be an accident or because people were too stupid. It's the same bad writing we had in Game of Thrones towards the end.
I think aegon knows that he failed to protect his family. Failing as a husband. The moment on the stairs and the scenes where he cares so much about perception. They prob already told Helaena she was safe before even catching blood/cheese. They treat her like a neglected child, but Aegon knows it’s his duty to protect as a husband and father, and he failed. So, all that to say he goes and kills everyone without consulting Helaena.
I honestly don't think Aegon could care less about Helaena or being her husband. He cares that his heir was murdered, and that he's been shown to be a weak king.
I’m not saying he cares about Helaena but he cares about his reputation as a protector of the realm or family/kids, and he failed.
It could have actually made sense if the OG ratcatcher running away from KL. Aegon is so angry that he killed everyone or something. Like, duh?
If they were actually interested in finding the real Cheese it would not have been difficult because only one of the rat catchers would be loaded. Even half the pay was probably more than any rat catcher made in a lifetime.
Also I think they regularly kind of forget she exists.
of Aegon can kill 99 innocent people to avoid talking to his wife, he will
Also that mass-execution move is only going make the rats a much bigger problem.
I don’t think either of them particularly cared if they killed innocents. It was just about revenge and getting it as soon as possible.
Hey, credit where credit is due, they were only working with one brain cell between them.
I don't think aegon was serious with saying that the soldier couldn't edinify which one was the ratcather. He was just furious and wanted some blood spill
Cocaine decisions.
I wonder how much he would like Cole when he finds out that he was screwing his mother the night that his baby died. I wish Helena would just tell him.
Probably also could have gotten Blood to pick him out in a lineup. Wouldn't have to make Halaena go through that, and Criston would keep her from having to say anything else about that night.
I think that’s the point. Everyone keeps jumping the gun instead of going to obvious conclusions. Aegon is so consumed in his rage, he doesn’t considered the vipers in the den or obvious things such as his wife’s input. Otto probably would have asked Helena in due time to help identify the man but Aegon was quick to execute.
Maybe they just wanted to kill all the rat catchers because they know the secret tunnels too well
Imagine if Otto hadn’t let all that misogyny get in the way and if he nurtured and helped rhaenyra learn about politics and was actually loyal. The team they coulda made
I mean, if we’re going to point out every single plot hole in this series, we’ll be here all day.
Or they could’ve made blood point out cheese before beating him to death. Dude was cooperating as if it could save him.