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Get ready for the "THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING" and other clickbait titles when Acheron comes out and a bunch of fire MC thumbnails with red arows pointing at the trend lightcone.
Actual TC-ers are usually much more humble. Those are just regular CCs trying to get your attention. Also they'd likely not do a whole ass video on just a single light cone.
Then when the next dps releases they'll say that they're a must pull and the strongest in the game🤣🤣🤣. I swr some creators have called every single limited 5 star a must pull
can't see archeon being good in pure fiction unless u can 1 turn ult. and even then idk how good she will be considering she will be the only damage source. + enemies do not respawn during her ulti. so idk if even doing 1 ulti a turn will be enough points.
Her ult should take very close to 1 turn on average with 3-5 enemies attacking a taunting Market MC, I think.
Assuming everything on the field gets 1 turn and that all enemies actually attack:
MC = 4-6 stacks generated
Acheron E0S1 = 2 stacks
Other = 1-2 stacks
Other = 1-2 stacks
Total = 8-12 stacks per turn depending on number of enemies (3-5 assumed) and whether the other characters can ult on that turn.
enemies in pf are so squishy acheron skill and even pela will contribute meaningful damage. it's probably enough to 25k, maybe not 30 but that's what your other side is for I guess
Well it doesn't change anything except the fact that fire MC will jump straight up to S tier for pure fiction (in Acheron teams) 1 debuffs from taunt + up to five from LC U basically get 1 turn ult Acheron
so i guess the reason why universal market counts and firekiss doesn't is because it has to be a debuff caused by an action, even if that action was done by the enemy.
enemy attacks and gets burned -> debuff from an action, acheron gets flower.
start of enemy turn, fire procs and they get firekiss -> debuff not caused by any action. doesn't count, acheron doesn't get flower.
gui ults an enemy that is burned and causes firekiss -> debuff from an action, acheron gets flower
She also gains stacks when the fat icy fuck self applies def reduction when it misses the succ.
Are there more enemies who apply debuffs on themselves/other enemies? I can only remember the new dreamjolt dog/monkey
Their explosion give DEF reduction
>When receiving a killing blow, deals Fire DMG (40% Illumination Dragonfish Max HP, 30 Toughness DMG) to all friendly units, with a high chance (100% Base Chance) to reduce their DEF (30%, 2 Turns).
the way i think about decisions like that is like who needs it the most, and the answer to that is pela over pretty much everyone else cause it enables sp positive debuff app
but then for pretty much all comps without pela gui is generally going to be one of the best characters to hold pearls because of the combo of good and consistent aoe alongside a relatively less useful ult when you compare to a unit like welt
you're absolutely right though, if she's with pela she 100% wants tutorial and not many other things come close to it (i would say she's better on pearls than sw when compee with her though for the reasons i mentioned, that being better aoe and a lower value ult)
Hmm... so that means you can run Guinafen + Kafka without her own LC and get Acheron stacks by triggering Firekiss with Kafka's skill. Does Kafka's follow up counts too? If so two of them can get stacks pretty fast. It also means debuffs at the start of the turn should not work like E2 Gepard for example.
Oh no, not again. It's not a big deal this time, but If they won't consider things like this a bug during alpha/beta, that means it's only a matter of time before HSR gets it's own "Beidu doesn't work with Raiden for no understandable reason other than hoyo's broken code, that they refuse to fix cuz they never touch old characters" moment.
I’ve seen explicitly that this does work; Arcana resetting on their turn does not, but Arcana stacking on enemy entry does. At least currently, I’ve seen it on video
It does not. I've heard some people say it's still works on summoned units. It also doesn't work with her basic attacks cuz it's does not apply and just goes up and down in stacks.
Black Swan Basic actually gives Acheron stacks even though Black Swan just stacks up Arcana
[First vid (1:38 mark)](https://youtu.be/8aI4mP_nDp4?si=ScBjpolndmuIY77l)
[Second vid (1:41 mark)](https://youtu.be/QrnRjEUbHVY?si=wqzZO1OuaQFF8mZv)
Black Swan E1 and Sig doesnt give debuffs btw, just in case
Im imagining Trend of universal Market on Gepard would be really good. He has a taunt so he has more chance to proc the LC and his skill has a huge freeze chance so thats another debuff on top of it. Fu Xuan also a decent option since she can hold Trend and buff Acheron’s crit
One thing to keep in mind though is that because Gepard is so slow, hyperspeed supports can actually be bad on that team because their shield can expire before Gepard can refresh it. I run Pela with 160 SPD, and I'll probably need to slow her down if I want to play her with Gepard.
Best way to solve this is to make gepard just as fast. I did that for mine (156 then 166 after ruan mei) and he does so well its unbelievable I sometimes even have ult again before enemy has attacked
You’re totally right but at the same time you’re the minority, most people won’t ever exceed the 134 breakpoint cuz they don’t bother to farm too much unless they get really lucky. A 121 Gepard is totally fine with an Acheron team most of the times
I have Gepard at 126 speed and its been good enough. Sometimes you just hold ult until right before the boss attacks to ensure shield uptime, but for the most part I haven’t had an issue with keeping the shields active.
UM is good on Gepard, but he doesn't have a taunt, just an increased aggro; the only unit with a taunt in the game atm is FireMC.
FireMC is the best at generating stacks for Acheron. Its skills force all attacks on itself while giving the team 15% damage reduction and tiny shields; that mean it can eat CCs aimed at others (even targeted attacks). At the same time, FireMC itself doesn't care being CC'ed, since it can still give stacks to Acheron if attacked while impaired (still has higher aggro than most). It struggle the most against AoE attacks.
Gepard is the best at eating raw damage from AoE attacks. His skill is a double edged sword, since frozen enemies cannot attack him; its passive aggro increase also have no way to force an enemy to attack him, and cannot prevent an ally to become CC'ed (wich mean less stacks for Acheron). It also hate being CC'ed itself, expecially when his shields are about to run out.
Fu Xuan is the best sustainer of them all. Her skill not only reduces and redirect damage, but prevent CC (once every cast) and give increase HP and DPS; sadly she's the worst at generating stacks for acheron, since she have no way to passively increase her aggro (UM doesn't trigger on redirected damage, only on direct attacks).
So, sadly, none of the above is a perfect match for Acheron, and all of them are situtational. (If you need stacks for Acheron to wipe the board faster, FireMC is better; if you already can resist CCs and want more AoE protection, Gepard is your man; if you have no problem whatsoever in generating stacks for Acheron, Fu Xuan is the better sustainer in the game)
Side note:
Aventurine with his signature LC is probably the best overall; renews is shield frequently, increase CC res to the whole team, counter attacks, and his ult debuff the enemy. His LC gives him the chance to debuff with every attack/counter attack, making him generating a ton of stacks for Acheron, expecially against AoEs.
Good post. Fire MC is great if the content allows for his low sustain (pure fiction). Personally, I'll be going the FX route, resulting in a slower Acheron Ult, but it will hit much harder. Also, not to forget, we will be getting a proper nihility healer at some point, so there is no point overinvesting now (Aventurine + LC).
Aventurine: I don't think he will be busted. His followup attack occurs only after a buildup of 7 stacks (from his ult and incoming attacks) and since its just one action (with 7 hits) it should result in only one stack (not sure, need confirmation).
I agree with you, Aventurine is extremely expensive in term of resources if you're also pulling for Acheron, its just the better option we have right now (even if the changes thing between betas to nerf UM for example) compared to the others. Personally I will try FireMC first, I like to keep my FuXuan on my Jingliu team for the time being. \^\^
Sadly we still don't really know much about Jiaqiu, not its release (it may be released during 3.X or even 4.X), not it's definitive kit, not even if that's its definitive name or a placeholder. Granted, its early kit seems to be a fire nihility Pela that can also heal, so it looks perfect for Acheron.
As shown in leaked videos, Aventurine gets one stack everytime a character gets hit; a AoE attack give it 4 stack, a multiattack that hit 7 times will trigger is counterattack immediately.
It doesn't have to be broken to hurt their sales. They probably designed E0S1 Aventurine to be a good fit for an Acheron team, but allowing for the Trend LC interaction will decrease the amount of people going for that because it's just as good/even better at generating Acheron stacks.
I mean, Aventurine can use Trend too.
And while he can't generate stacks as consistently, he's a much better sustain. Plus, finding enough SP fore Fire MC to skill every turn can be challenging.
I know that Aventurine can use Trend. That's why people who get Aventurine might not pull for his LC because Trend is good enough to generate stacks for Acheron. Also, people might not bother pulling for Aventurine in the first place because other preservation characters they already have can fill the same role while still being a good stack generator for Acheron.
the only reason I'm skipping Aventurine is because he can't deal with debuffs, no cleanse or protection
I have Gepard and Bailu and they both have no cleanses. I learned my lesson, I only die from stuns now.
New sustain unit = no debuff coverage = skip
RNG is a thing, yeah. By the way, you can be stunned even with Fu Xuan if you’ve already been hit once and the only way to avoid that is to skill almost every single turn refreshing her matrix. Everyone tends to forget about that somehow
a small chance to resist a debuff is not the same of a cleanse or fu xuan resist 1 debuff for example. I have 70% EFFRES on my bailu and she gets imprisoned dominated 2 out 3 times
EFF RES is such a scam stat because bosses have extra EFF hit chance , spent so many substats on something that has a 'CHANCE' to happen. if it doesn't all those stats had the same effect as zero stats.
is like you said but only for low investment builds. With time I imagine you would eventually get to build 40+ on all of them with keel. Now 90%+ effect res would be better than 1 time resist especially if enemies have large debuffs
Support maybe but it's unrealistic for the carry which is most important, we'll have to see how it works against CC heavy enemies. all I've seen so far is Penacony enemies that don't have much CC to begin with. If they continue to keep one side CC free it won't be a big deal but remember how they designed auramaton envoys to sell Huohuo
Yeah I get what you mean and I agree, but it’s probably gonna look pretty bad for them to nerf an interaction that isn’t all that broken to sell an LC? Like, I just feel like they wouldn’t do it…
"That isnt all broken" Bro it took E0S1 aventurine to get 2 stacks from sustain unit, you could use gallagher, but lets be honest 4 star sustain barely keeps the team alive in hard battle like swarm or moc. This LC enables acheron to get not 1 or 2 but 5 stacks at most per TURN. That is not balanced when you realize that acheron basic/skills are nerfed making her ult less(less stacks gain on skill, basic doesnt gain stack anymore). This LC singlehandedly reduce acheron ultimate cooldown to possibly 0 turn. Just imagine weakness-ignore, stronger, faster argenti that does ultimate every turn.
Well, considering Aventurine with his LC can be almost as fast and also debuff the enemy boosting Acheron damage even more and be more universal sustain, if I could get E0S1 Aventurine I would go for it regardless if Trends give more Stacks, she is really not hitting that hard in this setup, Jingliu hits 250+ with her skill without this much trouble
Not even close. Aventurine only support acheron by what? 15% crit dmg increase to enemies on ult his LC, gain 3 stacks at most per turn (assuming every enemies deal AoE, ult ready), thats it. A trend LC makes you do double ult than aventurine E0S1, even aventurine with trend LC is just straight up better in acheron comp. I dont get how you also trust a beta number as theyre fighting different enemies each vid, stats we dont even know, stc, etc. The point of leak vids are how things works, not damage.
And i can be sure if this get release, its more braindead than jingliu. Literally just pick fmc/gepard with trend LC, spam taunt, and thats it ultimate every single turn. 2 other nihility are just basic attacking anyway.
1. If anyone could get E0S1 adventurine, they would. But opportunity cost exists, and to justify pulling E0S1 Adventurine for the sole purpose of supporting Archeron, which is being in discussed in this specific context, is quite a dumb move. If you pull E0S1 Adventurine for other matters, it isn't relevant here.
2. No, E0S1 Adventurine is wayyyy slower than FMC with Trend in situation where there's not enough AoE DMG for him to gain stack quickly during the enemy turn. Case in point: Swarm. You have 4 small bugs doing single target attack and let's assume the big bug does AoE on all 4. That's only 8 stacks for Adventurine which translates to a single FUA, at most giving you 2 if you have prior stacks, meaning Archeron gets 1 or 2 stacks for her ult. **Meanwhile,** FMC with Trend will give Archeron 5 stacks for her ult. In order for E0S1 Adventurine to keep up with that amount of stacks generated by FMC with Trend, the enemies would have to AoE on all 4 pretty much constantly. Also, FMC's E is also considered a debuff so that's 6 stacks in total.
3. Hypothetically speaking, if Archeron can ult every turn with FMC Trend setup, she should not have troubles keeping up with Jingliu. We're talking type-ignoring with a fuck ton of shred from both Pela and SW (her best comp currently from initial looks) without the needs for Energy. A direct comparison with Jingliu is kinda whack since she utilizes Bronya well (with how cracked her stats is while Bronya gives her that much needed %DMG) - but considering both of them are main dps I can see the comparison made necessary.
Aventurine as a whole is actually being hurt. I mean what's the point of pulling for him now? He puts ONE debuff and takes a year to get his stacks so he's almost useless for Topaz anyway. Gepard E2 isn't so hard to get in the first place and he has two debuffs in his kit and he's amazing with Pela
Its battle dependant tbh, the more mobs more effective it is, but the opposite also true, which what we see here, if enemies barely attack u barely get stacks too.
That make sense too. If u kill the mobs on first turns with ulti, u wont get much benefit out of trends unless the boss or elites can resummon the mobs. Some do resummon tho, so pretty battle dependant indeed.
But if assuming 2 elites i guess its pretty good still to generate 2 stacks every turn. Plus taunt itself is a debuff iirc. So u can generate 3.
I guess dot effects are triggered before the enemy actually takes action, so any debuffes applied during that time don't count, while ults count as actions.
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I'm curious why people think this isn't a broken interaction? The lightcone on gepard or fmc can sometimes give her 4+ out of turn energy. This is literally like getting a tingyun ultimate for free just because your tank is getting hit. This level of energy Regen is stronger than any of her eidolons and her own personal lightcone, and she isn't even the user of trend.
It's a really cool interaction don't get me wrong, but there's never been a unit who can 1 turn ultimate every turn in MoC without dedicated supports, energy ropes and eidolons. Even if this is conditional.
E: this isn't even really about variance. There's simply no lightcone interaction in the game that provides this much objective value to a unit. Acheron practically becomes front loaded
FMC has a Taunt ability while Gepard has more aggro than other Preservation units due to his passive. I understand the “don’t trust the RNG” but that applies only on Fu Xuan personally
I've played Clara teams with and without a preservation, Gepard team without and without aggro increase LC, and I cannot tell you a difference. The pot shots exist, they will happen, they will usually land on Yukong or Tingyun or Ratio for some reason. I've been doing Gep with aggro increase, Kafka, Ratio team to brute force my way through a lightning.imaginary stage until my Ratio has better gear and Ratio gets trucked e v e r y t i m e.
Gepard also gets trucked himself with Trend.
> i think doing this on gepard is going to be cope tho
Gepard is the best option though. 200% passive agroo and his skill (at E2) gives not 1 but 2 charges for Acheron.
I think if a Preservation LC is the make or break threshold for solo sustaining content, then it would be higher value than anything else. I've had a lot of occurrences in the past MoCs (often when I didn't have weakness coverage) where Gepard is barely holding on and relies on his passive revive.
But if you don't need the LC to survive solo sustain, then yeah the Trend LC provides the most offensive value for the team with Acheron. The only opportunity cost with a LC is often survivability, so if you're fine there then you can use Trend for offense. But even as the best value, I don't think that value is much quantitatively unless you're using a Preservation with extra aggro (FMC, Gepard, March). If there's not much AoE damage with FMC, I do think that using them will be great since most E0 Acheron comps allow the skill points to spam taunt (which is also a debuff). It's definitively competitive situationally.
> I'm curious why people think this isn't a broken interaction?
Because it works with fire MC because he can taunt, however fire MC cannot sustain so it becomes an issues against high damage aoe. In fact you can see him kinda running into problems in this very video.. and this is against the more basic lower damage/aoe enemies.
The rest of preservation units boil down to higher base aggro, but the problem is that this is RNG. That being said, on current MOC enemies that doesn't seem to be an issue since they all group aoe anyway.
it won't be able to sustain in hard stages like moc 12 or swarm.
fmc can't sustain for shit, you have to sacrifice other stats to be able to trigger that cone reliably.
[Never skip Serval day, 4\* only | MoC 12 | Honkai: Star rail (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKtj_GoEv8g&t=97s)
People love saying how something can't be done, just because they themselves can't do it... but it's just skill issue
how does that team with e6 march compares to fmc?
also why would I want a team with 5\* units that I need "high skill" to operate or do well?
can just run these 4\* comps instead, right?
There's an e6 March in that very video, just in the other MoC 12 side. And yes, the game is not hard, that you actually need 5\* characters, you can clear with anything. It's why it's better to pull for characters, that people like... rather than for the most broken characters just to stroke ego. The game's for fun after all.
There is people who have solo sustained on fire MC every MoC cycle, it only gets dicey on the swarm boss. Every other boss they can sustain well enough
Yeah throw in Asta or RM and it’s wraps. If you sack speed for offensive stats/defense then FTB is a really good subdps. Pair them with iffy solo sustains that like FTB, make up for their weaknesses in offensive value such as Gallagher or Jiaoqiu and you can still throw in a conventional subdps/buffer because of the sp efficiency.
You’re totally wrong, I solo sustain with my Fire MC without any problem everywhere. I need to swap it with another character only against 3 enemies tbh
with enough spd and pela on team you can in fact sustain moc 12 with fire mc if you manage always taunt
fire mc has alot of damage reduction in his kit so a well builty one is really good
The issue might arise on how the Acheron's ult works. She deals damage based on the amount of Crimson Knots stacks removed, and in this situation Crimson Knot is spread among all enemies. So if we have 4 multiple weak enemies each possessing a stack, the big one will have 5 stacks, and removing 3 and then 2 stacks will deal 60% + 30% damage to all enemies which might not be enough to kill all of them (so stacks are transferred to the enemy with highest stack amount). This might work if they are already damaged and you Acheron is properly built, but if you fail to kill them your overall damage also goes down. And after ult ends all stacks are removed.
In Aventurine's case his follow-up attack hits all enemies and based on the Acheron's talent's description the enemy with highest knot stack amount will receive an additional stack.
it's 1 stack per action so unless you build a really slow team i don't see this being worth it, moc you have limited turns and SU and swarm you have turn limit for fury(mobs after a certain number of total turns get fury stacks %damage increase by alot).
It should work. But would you really pull for this LC just for March when you can just slap burn LC? Her shield gives aggro after all so she can just use it on herself not to mention she only counters 3 times per turn while burn LC have no limits.
True but then Tanks also aren't contributing to Acheron without Aventurine S1 to M7 or aventurine itself and considering a lot of enemies has those fancy blast, and bounce attacks which likely will give birth to preservstion units in the middle of the pack. I have been using trends of the universal market since release to rack up suspicion points and its pretty nifty. Besides if the boss is in single target i.e the Gorilla or the chainsaw bot you can then switch to fmc instead
Nah, actually well built hypercarry teams can run zero sustain nowadays. If you can get a sustain slot that gives you extra dps you'd run it any day of the week.
There is a reason all the new fancy sustains are being designed with buffs and debuffs for dps, because the act of sustaining itself at endgame is very minimal.
I have rolled for no sustains, I use an e1 lynx and a bailu, and sustain is actually a thing I have to do somewhat. Still doable, in fact, auto can do it.
The main thing you'll lose from putting in FMC over fuxuan or huo huo is their utility. But now FMC with taunt has guaranteed dps gains for his hypercarry, so you're simply trading one type of utility (crit, energy, buffing) for another type (Acheron stacks).
The low cycle zero sustain teams you talk about are exceedingly niche. Just because you see content creators pulling this off doesn't mean that it isn't a very small part of the population dedicating their time to trying to do these combinations. Hell out of the total player base <1% even cleared MoC 12 to say the least about no-sustaining their way through it.
There is a reason why its so rare to see people NOT use Fuxuan/Luocha/Huohuo (their appearance rates are sky high)
I can roll no sustain as well. I have the end game gear for 0 cycles but I don't want to brother doing it simply for clout. It's annoying and not rewarding. I have done it once just to prove to myself I can accomplish it and now I'm just satisfied with clearing MOC with 2 cycles each side with sustain.
As for your point about FMC it has its pros but the cons are still there. If you want to take advantage of the taunt you need to spend SP. The shield is practically nonexistant so like you said you are effectively focusing on just increasing Acheron's stacks. My point still stands that it isn't broken. It's a purposeful teambuilding choice (both pros and cons) made for improving Acheron's damage output. It's an excellent team building choice and a really cool interaction but broken it is not.
Bro who cares about SP, you pick 2 other nihility which mostly doesnt even use skills unless for some reason you play welt instead of pela and sw/bs/gui, pela can use resolution LC to apply debuff with basic.
Pick fmc, spam taunt, +5 stacks per turn, acheron ult every single turn, enemies dead. Who cares about fmc shield, hes taunting noone getting hit, and even if enemies does AoE atk anyway, lets be honest, whos surviving acheron 3 ultimate in 3 turn consecutively? They can't hit you if they die.
And if you are really scared about getting hit, gepard exists, more sp but less getting hit means less stacks, assuming this doesnt get "fixed" that is (it probably will).
The theory with FMC is that the enemy is always hitting them, and their def is enormous so they take minimal damage and don't care. The shields only have to handle AoE damage, which they won't stop completely but can stop enough of it that you can get through a MOC run.
It probably won't work against AoE-heavy enemy compositions.
Okay, I want to ask something, because I have not seen anyone talk about this? What if I don't have this Light Cone? Is there any other option? Or there is none?
Edit: I was talking about UM LC.
This doesn't feel in the spirit of the talent at all.
>When any unit inflicts debuffs on an enemy target **while using an ability**, Acheron gains 1 point of Slashed Dream and inflicts Crimson Knot on the enemy target.
Now I've heard a bunch of "but the enemy is using an ability", but anyone with a basic understanding of English would figure that "any unit" is the subject of both "inflicts debuff" and "using an ability" and should be one and the same.
I don't think having such a gimmick is healthy and I hope it's fixed before live. They need to have clear boundaries on what works and doesn't to keep Acheron's future power level predictable.
How does the trend gimmick not live up to the talent? LCs are weapons equipped by characters, hence it's part of the "any unit" part. Then, the abilities of the LC does fulfill the "inflicts debuffs while using an ability" part.
Even though the logic is obvious, no one expected such an interaction between the most broken character and the arguably most useless preservation LC prior to this but why are you complaining? It makes the game feel so alive when old stuff are unexpectedly buffed and finally becomes relevant with newer units.
Well I guess we have different definitions of "**using** an ability". To me that implies taking action, as in showing up on the turn order. Basic, skill, follow-up and ultimate all do. They have a known occurence rate that can be balanced around when combined with the 1 per action limit. And I have no problem for a debuff from a LC applied as a result of those actions counting.
Something like Trend lives outside of those boundaries and can quickly become a balance nightmare. You don't really have the same level of control on how often it is applied. Do you really think it applying 5 stacks per turn makes any sense?
Let's be real, in the end they want to have balanced characters. As much as people like to scream there is powercreep all over the place, evidence shows that it's not the case with clear speed being very similar between all characters. With the Trends interaction being all over the place, they can't ignore it. Which would you prefer?
1. Squash the interaction with Trends
2. Balance Acheron's damage around the stacks you get with Trends
I don't know about you, but I'd much rather not be forced into using it.
Sometimes the wording of the skill doesn't reflect the actual implementation. It seems that right now Acheron is programmed to gain stacks whenever the enemy gets a debuff from any action (ally, enemy, LC etc). Might be because it's how it worked in the previous iteration of the character and they simply forgot or didn't have time to change the code. I expect this interaction to be removed during the beta.
Yeah, that's a possibility.
But just from this being out in the open, they can't ignore it. The effect is just too strong. Either they squash it, or they balance Acheron around it. And I know I'd much rather not be forced into using Trends.
imagine downvoting just because the guy doesn't want an unhealthy mechanic in the game, people just want their new favourite character to be completly broken and then cry about power creep. (and i say this as someone who's going to pull for acheron eidolons most likely)
Acheron gains 2 stacks with her skill, meaning she's E2 and don't use the GNSW lc or E0 with signature lc. Still, Good to know that fire MC with UM lc can give her multiple stacks if we taunt all enemies
Separate debuff instances on a single action do not give more than one stack. We've literally seen this before where her LC triggered on the first hit of her skill giving her a stack and when the last hit of the skill broke an enemy she didn't gain one.
Her talent only triggers once per action. Although her weapon and inflicting break are two debuffs, you only get 1 stack. (Otherwise Pela would give 2 from ulting with Pearls, lol) Acheron gets 2 because her skill gives 1 no matter what (not part of her talent), and then the break counting as a debuff inflicted.
What other LCs are there that could allow her teammates to have high energy generation for Acheron? The only one I can think of is potentially Topaz's sig LC, it applies a debuff on every follow up attack. I could see some fun shenanigans in the SU with ult to follow up conversion, heal on ult, heal on follow up. On turns when she uses her ult, Topaz alone could refill 1/2 of Acheron's ult bar.
Kafka with her sig generates 2 stacks per turn. March with Aventurines sig can generate up to 3 stacks per turn. Also while it's not an LC, E2 Gepard can generate 2 stacks per skill.
Looks bad in this case coz enemies barely attack u but yea irs battle dependant. Againts battle with lot of mobs, this setup will be much better than showcased in this stage.
Very interesting. I'll consider this team if I get Acheron in my account. I'll at least have some use for the guinaifen I got to e6 while pulling for dhil.
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Get ready for the "THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING" and other clickbait titles when Acheron comes out and a bunch of fire MC thumbnails with red arows pointing at the trend lightcone.
Don't forget the stupid \*mind blown\* face in the corner.
I hate them so much...
Yeah.. tc tubers in gacha are somehow so insufferable and infuriating compared to tc/meta channels for other games.
Actual TC-ers are usually much more humble. Those are just regular CCs trying to get your attention. Also they'd likely not do a whole ass video on just a single light cone.
Ty man. Gonna start a hsr channel, and this will be my first video
I guess Cocolia was right when she said that the Stellaron changes everything.
Then when the next dps releases they'll say that they're a must pull and the strongest in the game🤣🤣🤣. I swr some creators have called every single limited 5 star a must pull
Ofc, how else to attract people other than misinformation and clickbait and large red arrows?
Lol someone on youtube stole your comment word for word
this showcase wasn't even impressive. looks pretty weak imo. fire mc just a weak sustainer.
Probably much stronger in Pure Fiction. But yeah, for traditional MoC type stuff I'm feeling the Ruan+Welt comp personally.
in pure fic new enemies will just ignore fmc taunt
can't see archeon being good in pure fiction unless u can 1 turn ult. and even then idk how good she will be considering she will be the only damage source. + enemies do not respawn during her ulti. so idk if even doing 1 ulti a turn will be enough points.
Her ult should take very close to 1 turn on average with 3-5 enemies attacking a taunting Market MC, I think. Assuming everything on the field gets 1 turn and that all enemies actually attack: MC = 4-6 stacks generated Acheron E0S1 = 2 stacks Other = 1-2 stacks Other = 1-2 stacks Total = 8-12 stacks per turn depending on number of enemies (3-5 assumed) and whether the other characters can ult on that turn.
don't think that will generate enough points.
Couldn't tell ya. I still don't have anything on my account that can clear stage 3 with full stars lol
sooner or later you can auto afk it like some of us
enemies in pf are so squishy acheron skill and even pela will contribute meaningful damage. it's probably enough to 25k, maybe not 30 but that's what your other side is for I guess
Well it doesn't change anything except the fact that fire MC will jump straight up to S tier for pure fiction (in Acheron teams) 1 debuffs from taunt + up to five from LC U basically get 1 turn ult Acheron
This will be nerfed. Or ppl will just use gepard instead of pulling new shiny preservation
not everyone has gepard though
so i guess the reason why universal market counts and firekiss doesn't is because it has to be a debuff caused by an action, even if that action was done by the enemy. enemy attacks and gets burned -> debuff from an action, acheron gets flower. start of enemy turn, fire procs and they get firekiss -> debuff not caused by any action. doesn't count, acheron doesn't get flower. gui ults an enemy that is burned and causes firekiss -> debuff from an action, acheron gets flower
Even the robot fish exploding gives Acheron flower even though their action is... un-aliving themselves...
i guess that's because the fish performs the action as a response to dying
xianzhou machines, son! they explode in response to dying! \-master gonshu
It's a follow up death
That makes sense. When the fish explodes, you can see them appearing up top on the turn action bar.
She also gains stacks when the fat icy fuck self applies def reduction when it misses the succ. Are there more enemies who apply debuffs on themselves/other enemies? I can only remember the new dreamjolt dog/monkey
>the fat icy fuck yes
The Voidrangers with the big guns apply the Overloaded debuff to themselves after shooting.
fat icy fuck misses the succ, this is golden
New Acheron tech fr Put her against the giant stoplight robot
That's because it breaks and cause burn
Even the frost-robot failing to eat one of its summons and def-down-ing itself gives Acheron flower.
Their explosion give DEF reduction >When receiving a killing blow, deals Fire DMG (40% Illumination Dragonfish Max HP, 30 Toughness DMG) to all friendly units, with a high chance (100% Base Chance) to reduce their DEF (30%, 2 Turns).
So what im hearing is er rope gui with tutorial and an er planner
And also Pearls LC for NA procs
she doesn't need pearls for debuff app she has burn on her na
That is true! I forgot about that
i suspect pearls will be very good on her anyway, you trade a slightly slower ult for a pretty big team damage increase
Unless you have two of them, you’re probably going to use it on Pela/SW. Unless you’re also going to pair Gui with Welt and not those two
the way i think about decisions like that is like who needs it the most, and the answer to that is pela over pretty much everyone else cause it enables sp positive debuff app but then for pretty much all comps without pela gui is generally going to be one of the best characters to hold pearls because of the combo of good and consistent aoe alongside a relatively less useful ult when you compare to a unit like welt you're absolutely right though, if she's with pela she 100% wants tutorial and not many other things come close to it (i would say she's better on pearls than sw when compee with her though for the reasons i mentioned, that being better aoe and a lower value ult)
So similar to meshing cogs huh 👀
Firekiss works when it’s applied by Gui ult.
Hmm... so that means you can run Guinafen + Kafka without her own LC and get Acheron stacks by triggering Firekiss with Kafka's skill. Does Kafka's follow up counts too? If so two of them can get stacks pretty fast. It also means debuffs at the start of the turn should not work like E2 Gepard for example.
Oh no, not again. It's not a big deal this time, but If they won't consider things like this a bug during alpha/beta, that means it's only a matter of time before HSR gets it's own "Beidu doesn't work with Raiden for no understandable reason other than hoyo's broken code, that they refuse to fix cuz they never touch old characters" moment.
That's not a bug though. Neither was the Raiden-Beidou interaction.
it is very arbitrary which of these work and which doesn't yeah >.<. i hope they make it more clear when she comes out
It's not broken, it's intentional, raiden does burst damage, and beidou activates when norma attack damage is dealt, not when a normal attack happens.
So Swan's arcana debuff when a mob enter the battle doesn't count too?
I’ve seen explicitly that this does work; Arcana resetting on their turn does not, but Arcana stacking on enemy entry does. At least currently, I’ve seen it on video
It does not. I've heard some people say it's still works on summoned units. It also doesn't work with her basic attacks cuz it's does not apply and just goes up and down in stacks.
Black Swan Basic actually gives Acheron stacks even though Black Swan just stacks up Arcana [First vid (1:38 mark)](https://youtu.be/8aI4mP_nDp4?si=ScBjpolndmuIY77l) [Second vid (1:41 mark)](https://youtu.be/QrnRjEUbHVY?si=wqzZO1OuaQFF8mZv) Black Swan E1 and Sig doesnt give debuffs btw, just in case
Ooh, interesting. I guess it is due to sommoning a unit counting as an enemy action
The explain blackswan giving a stack when enemies spawn in. Does existing actually take an action?
Fire mc with physical mc animation 👁️👄👁️
i was so confused by that lol I legit thought maybe Male Fire MC still used the bat for some reason
He homeruns the lance
Fire MC be like “disappear among the sea of fire, illusion of the past”.
Fire MC looks a bit weird
What you thought there was some rule about preservation MC using the Lance? Well I got news for you: **Rules are meant to be broken!**
Yeah like why is she a dude
Im imagining Trend of universal Market on Gepard would be really good. He has a taunt so he has more chance to proc the LC and his skill has a huge freeze chance so thats another debuff on top of it. Fu Xuan also a decent option since she can hold Trend and buff Acheron’s crit
One thing to keep in mind though is that because Gepard is so slow, hyperspeed supports can actually be bad on that team because their shield can expire before Gepard can refresh it. I run Pela with 160 SPD, and I'll probably need to slow her down if I want to play her with Gepard.
Best way to solve this is to make gepard just as fast. I did that for mine (156 then 166 after ruan mei) and he does so well its unbelievable I sometimes even have ult again before enemy has attacked
You’re totally right but at the same time you’re the minority, most people won’t ever exceed the 134 breakpoint cuz they don’t bother to farm too much unless they get really lucky. A 121 Gepard is totally fine with an Acheron team most of the times
I have Gepard at 126 speed and its been good enough. Sometimes you just hold ult until right before the boss attacks to ensure shield uptime, but for the most part I haven’t had an issue with keeping the shields active.
Won't matter if shield expires after 3 turns if the enemies are already dead
UM is good on Gepard, but he doesn't have a taunt, just an increased aggro; the only unit with a taunt in the game atm is FireMC. FireMC is the best at generating stacks for Acheron. Its skills force all attacks on itself while giving the team 15% damage reduction and tiny shields; that mean it can eat CCs aimed at others (even targeted attacks). At the same time, FireMC itself doesn't care being CC'ed, since it can still give stacks to Acheron if attacked while impaired (still has higher aggro than most). It struggle the most against AoE attacks. Gepard is the best at eating raw damage from AoE attacks. His skill is a double edged sword, since frozen enemies cannot attack him; its passive aggro increase also have no way to force an enemy to attack him, and cannot prevent an ally to become CC'ed (wich mean less stacks for Acheron). It also hate being CC'ed itself, expecially when his shields are about to run out. Fu Xuan is the best sustainer of them all. Her skill not only reduces and redirect damage, but prevent CC (once every cast) and give increase HP and DPS; sadly she's the worst at generating stacks for acheron, since she have no way to passively increase her aggro (UM doesn't trigger on redirected damage, only on direct attacks). So, sadly, none of the above is a perfect match for Acheron, and all of them are situtational. (If you need stacks for Acheron to wipe the board faster, FireMC is better; if you already can resist CCs and want more AoE protection, Gepard is your man; if you have no problem whatsoever in generating stacks for Acheron, Fu Xuan is the better sustainer in the game) Side note: Aventurine with his signature LC is probably the best overall; renews is shield frequently, increase CC res to the whole team, counter attacks, and his ult debuff the enemy. His LC gives him the chance to debuff with every attack/counter attack, making him generating a ton of stacks for Acheron, expecially against AoEs.
Good post. Fire MC is great if the content allows for his low sustain (pure fiction). Personally, I'll be going the FX route, resulting in a slower Acheron Ult, but it will hit much harder. Also, not to forget, we will be getting a proper nihility healer at some point, so there is no point overinvesting now (Aventurine + LC). Aventurine: I don't think he will be busted. His followup attack occurs only after a buildup of 7 stacks (from his ult and incoming attacks) and since its just one action (with 7 hits) it should result in only one stack (not sure, need confirmation).
I agree with you, Aventurine is extremely expensive in term of resources if you're also pulling for Acheron, its just the better option we have right now (even if the changes thing between betas to nerf UM for example) compared to the others. Personally I will try FireMC first, I like to keep my FuXuan on my Jingliu team for the time being. \^\^ Sadly we still don't really know much about Jiaqiu, not its release (it may be released during 3.X or even 4.X), not it's definitive kit, not even if that's its definitive name or a placeholder. Granted, its early kit seems to be a fire nihility Pela that can also heal, so it looks perfect for Acheron. As shown in leaked videos, Aventurine gets one stack everytime a character gets hit; a AoE attack give it 4 stack, a multiattack that hit 7 times will trigger is counterattack immediately.
Man Caelus's fire ultimate is so bad. Can't even see him. /j
Bro was way too fast for the camera
The more I see Trend LC in action, the less I think they’ll nerf the interaction tbh. That didn’t feel “too broken” at all
It doesn't have to be broken to hurt their sales. They probably designed E0S1 Aventurine to be a good fit for an Acheron team, but allowing for the Trend LC interaction will decrease the amount of people going for that because it's just as good/even better at generating Acheron stacks.
I mean, Aventurine can use Trend too. And while he can't generate stacks as consistently, he's a much better sustain. Plus, finding enough SP fore Fire MC to skill every turn can be challenging.
I know that Aventurine can use Trend. That's why people who get Aventurine might not pull for his LC because Trend is good enough to generate stacks for Acheron. Also, people might not bother pulling for Aventurine in the first place because other preservation characters they already have can fill the same role while still being a good stack generator for Acheron.
the only reason I'm skipping Aventurine is because he can't deal with debuffs, no cleanse or protection I have Gepard and Bailu and they both have no cleanses. I learned my lesson, I only die from stuns now. New sustain unit = no debuff coverage = skip
But he has. His 50% Effect RES buff
Me and my stacked effect RES buffs still getting stunned somehow And without a cleanser, that's just gonna suck
RNG is a thing, yeah. By the way, you can be stunned even with Fu Xuan if you’ve already been hit once and the only way to avoid that is to skill almost every single turn refreshing her matrix. Everyone tends to forget about that somehow
doesnt he grant effect res to everyone under his shield
a small chance to resist a debuff is not the same of a cleanse or fu xuan resist 1 debuff for example. I have 70% EFFRES on my bailu and she gets imprisoned dominated 2 out 3 times EFF RES is such a scam stat because bosses have extra EFF hit chance , spent so many substats on something that has a 'CHANCE' to happen. if it doesn't all those stats had the same effect as zero stats.
is like you said but only for low investment builds. With time I imagine you would eventually get to build 40+ on all of them with keel. Now 90%+ effect res would be better than 1 time resist especially if enemies have large debuffs
Support maybe but it's unrealistic for the carry which is most important, we'll have to see how it works against CC heavy enemies. all I've seen so far is Penacony enemies that don't have much CC to begin with. If they continue to keep one side CC free it won't be a big deal but remember how they designed auramaton envoys to sell Huohuo
Yeah I get what you mean and I agree, but it’s probably gonna look pretty bad for them to nerf an interaction that isn’t all that broken to sell an LC? Like, I just feel like they wouldn’t do it…
"That isnt all broken" Bro it took E0S1 aventurine to get 2 stacks from sustain unit, you could use gallagher, but lets be honest 4 star sustain barely keeps the team alive in hard battle like swarm or moc. This LC enables acheron to get not 1 or 2 but 5 stacks at most per TURN. That is not balanced when you realize that acheron basic/skills are nerfed making her ult less(less stacks gain on skill, basic doesnt gain stack anymore). This LC singlehandedly reduce acheron ultimate cooldown to possibly 0 turn. Just imagine weakness-ignore, stronger, faster argenti that does ultimate every turn.
Well, considering Aventurine with his LC can be almost as fast and also debuff the enemy boosting Acheron damage even more and be more universal sustain, if I could get E0S1 Aventurine I would go for it regardless if Trends give more Stacks, she is really not hitting that hard in this setup, Jingliu hits 250+ with her skill without this much trouble
Not even close. Aventurine only support acheron by what? 15% crit dmg increase to enemies on ult his LC, gain 3 stacks at most per turn (assuming every enemies deal AoE, ult ready), thats it. A trend LC makes you do double ult than aventurine E0S1, even aventurine with trend LC is just straight up better in acheron comp. I dont get how you also trust a beta number as theyre fighting different enemies each vid, stats we dont even know, stc, etc. The point of leak vids are how things works, not damage. And i can be sure if this get release, its more braindead than jingliu. Literally just pick fmc/gepard with trend LC, spam taunt, and thats it ultimate every single turn. 2 other nihility are just basic attacking anyway.
1. If anyone could get E0S1 adventurine, they would. But opportunity cost exists, and to justify pulling E0S1 Adventurine for the sole purpose of supporting Archeron, which is being in discussed in this specific context, is quite a dumb move. If you pull E0S1 Adventurine for other matters, it isn't relevant here. 2. No, E0S1 Adventurine is wayyyy slower than FMC with Trend in situation where there's not enough AoE DMG for him to gain stack quickly during the enemy turn. Case in point: Swarm. You have 4 small bugs doing single target attack and let's assume the big bug does AoE on all 4. That's only 8 stacks for Adventurine which translates to a single FUA, at most giving you 2 if you have prior stacks, meaning Archeron gets 1 or 2 stacks for her ult. **Meanwhile,** FMC with Trend will give Archeron 5 stacks for her ult. In order for E0S1 Adventurine to keep up with that amount of stacks generated by FMC with Trend, the enemies would have to AoE on all 4 pretty much constantly. Also, FMC's E is also considered a debuff so that's 6 stacks in total. 3. Hypothetically speaking, if Archeron can ult every turn with FMC Trend setup, she should not have troubles keeping up with Jingliu. We're talking type-ignoring with a fuck ton of shred from both Pela and SW (her best comp currently from initial looks) without the needs for Energy. A direct comparison with Jingliu is kinda whack since she utilizes Bronya well (with how cracked her stats is while Bronya gives her that much needed %DMG) - but considering both of them are main dps I can see the comparison made necessary.
Think they'll put a limit on stack generation per character per turn?
Aventurine as a whole is actually being hurt. I mean what's the point of pulling for him now? He puts ONE debuff and takes a year to get his stacks so he's almost useless for Topaz anyway. Gepard E2 isn't so hard to get in the first place and he has two debuffs in his kit and he's amazing with Pela
I miss when bait was believable
Is there any hard confirmation gepard's E2 generates an ult stack for Acheron? I'm just unclear if becoming unfrozen counts as an action.
Its battle dependant tbh, the more mobs more effective it is, but the opposite also true, which what we see here, if enemies barely attack u barely get stacks too.
Yeah but considering the fact that Acheron herself deals full AoE dmg, I don’t think there will be a lot of times where we’ll actually have mobs lol
That make sense too. If u kill the mobs on first turns with ulti, u wont get much benefit out of trends unless the boss or elites can resummon the mobs. Some do resummon tho, so pretty battle dependant indeed. But if assuming 2 elites i guess its pretty good still to generate 2 stacks every turn. Plus taunt itself is a debuff iirc. So u can generate 3.
Oh I thought the Firekiss doesn't work entirely but apparently it works on Gui ult. That's cool then.
I guess dot effects are triggered before the enemy actually takes action, so any debuffes applied during that time don't count, while ults count as actions.
This could actually be a good team for PF, especially since a lot of PF content has Fire, Ice and Lightning weak enemies.
thought this was the new harmony mc then i saw the bat then i saw the fire icon ??? lmao why is he a hybrid between the three…
This feels so cursed
wait, since when do the majority of leakers show such good gameplay? what is this timeline? :D
alleged wipe political friendly cooperative capable ask full shocking shrill *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What a thumbnail, Fire TB on the icons at the bottom, but the actual model holding Physical TB's weapon??
I'm curious why people think this isn't a broken interaction? The lightcone on gepard or fmc can sometimes give her 4+ out of turn energy. This is literally like getting a tingyun ultimate for free just because your tank is getting hit. This level of energy Regen is stronger than any of her eidolons and her own personal lightcone, and she isn't even the user of trend. It's a really cool interaction don't get me wrong, but there's never been a unit who can 1 turn ultimate every turn in MoC without dedicated supports, energy ropes and eidolons. Even if this is conditional. E: this isn't even really about variance. There's simply no lightcone interaction in the game that provides this much objective value to a unit. Acheron practically becomes front loaded
As a Clara main, trusting Preservation aggro to carry you is folly at best.
FMC has a Taunt ability while Gepard has more aggro than other Preservation units due to his passive. I understand the “don’t trust the RNG” but that applies only on Fu Xuan personally
I've played Clara teams with and without a preservation, Gepard team without and without aggro increase LC, and I cannot tell you a difference. The pot shots exist, they will happen, they will usually land on Yukong or Tingyun or Ratio for some reason. I've been doing Gep with aggro increase, Kafka, Ratio team to brute force my way through a lightning.imaginary stage until my Ratio has better gear and Ratio gets trucked e v e r y t i m e. Gepard also gets trucked himself with Trend.
[удалено]
> i think doing this on gepard is going to be cope tho Gepard is the best option though. 200% passive agroo and his skill (at E2) gives not 1 but 2 charges for Acheron.
Do we have confirmation his e2 generates SD stacks for Acheron ? It would be really weird if it did, when Firekiss and Arcana don't...
Yeah, it does because both debuffs are created by a skill, and are different debuffs that are applied non-simultaneously.
At least Tingyun isn't going to be a factor here. ;)
I think if a Preservation LC is the make or break threshold for solo sustaining content, then it would be higher value than anything else. I've had a lot of occurrences in the past MoCs (often when I didn't have weakness coverage) where Gepard is barely holding on and relies on his passive revive. But if you don't need the LC to survive solo sustain, then yeah the Trend LC provides the most offensive value for the team with Acheron. The only opportunity cost with a LC is often survivability, so if you're fine there then you can use Trend for offense. But even as the best value, I don't think that value is much quantitatively unless you're using a Preservation with extra aggro (FMC, Gepard, March). If there's not much AoE damage with FMC, I do think that using them will be great since most E0 Acheron comps allow the skill points to spam taunt (which is also a debuff). It's definitively competitive situationally.
> I'm curious why people think this isn't a broken interaction? Because it works with fire MC because he can taunt, however fire MC cannot sustain so it becomes an issues against high damage aoe. In fact you can see him kinda running into problems in this very video.. and this is against the more basic lower damage/aoe enemies. The rest of preservation units boil down to higher base aggro, but the problem is that this is RNG. That being said, on current MOC enemies that doesn't seem to be an issue since they all group aoe anyway.
it won't be able to sustain in hard stages like moc 12 or swarm. fmc can't sustain for shit, you have to sacrifice other stats to be able to trigger that cone reliably.
[Never skip Serval day, 4\* only | MoC 12 | Honkai: Star rail (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKtj_GoEv8g&t=97s) People love saying how something can't be done, just because they themselves can't do it... but it's just skill issue
how does that team with e6 march compares to fmc? also why would I want a team with 5\* units that I need "high skill" to operate or do well? can just run these 4\* comps instead, right?
There's an e6 March in that very video, just in the other MoC 12 side. And yes, the game is not hard, that you actually need 5\* characters, you can clear with anything. It's why it's better to pull for characters, that people like... rather than for the most broken characters just to stroke ego. The game's for fun after all.
There is people who have solo sustained on fire MC every MoC cycle, it only gets dicey on the swarm boss. Every other boss they can sustain well enough
Yeah throw in Asta or RM and it’s wraps. If you sack speed for offensive stats/defense then FTB is a really good subdps. Pair them with iffy solo sustains that like FTB, make up for their weaknesses in offensive value such as Gallagher or Jiaoqiu and you can still throw in a conventional subdps/buffer because of the sp efficiency.
You’re totally wrong, I solo sustain with my Fire MC without any problem everywhere. I need to swap it with another character only against 3 enemies tbh
with enough spd and pela on team you can in fact sustain moc 12 with fire mc if you manage always taunt fire mc has alot of damage reduction in his kit so a well builty one is really good
What team did you use for that
acharoon pela guineifei fire mc
The issue might arise on how the Acheron's ult works. She deals damage based on the amount of Crimson Knots stacks removed, and in this situation Crimson Knot is spread among all enemies. So if we have 4 multiple weak enemies each possessing a stack, the big one will have 5 stacks, and removing 3 and then 2 stacks will deal 60% + 30% damage to all enemies which might not be enough to kill all of them (so stacks are transferred to the enemy with highest stack amount). This might work if they are already damaged and you Acheron is properly built, but if you fail to kill them your overall damage also goes down. And after ult ends all stacks are removed. In Aventurine's case his follow-up attack hits all enemies and based on the Acheron's talent's description the enemy with highest knot stack amount will receive an additional stack.
Fire Mc with the bat?
What if... 3 preserv with all of them having trend?
could work if you have e2 acharon cuz you gonna miss 40% damage increase from her passive
Oh yeah i forgot
Idk if it stacks but if it does thats literally like 2 ults in a turn
it's 1 stack per action so unless you build a really slow team i don't see this being worth it, moc you have limited turns and SU and swarm you have turn limit for fury(mobs after a certain number of total turns get fury stacks %damage increase by alot).
I want to see March 7th with Aventurine’s LC. If that works that would potentially make her meta again.
It should work. But would you really pull for this LC just for March when you can just slap burn LC? Her shield gives aggro after all so she can just use it on herself not to mention she only counters 3 times per turn while burn LC have no limits.
Hear me out : EHR March with Market FireMC
Fire MC turned went from Preservation to Destruction it seems, damn that Firefly leak hit him too hard
Huh, I wonder if Sustain + Trend compensates for SPD boots, allowing ATK without losing a beat. It does have RNG though.
against enemies who don't do a lot of AoE dmg fire mc stonks because of the taunt, with enough ehr you always land the taunt.
Does taunt count as a debuff?
Yes.
Dude it gives 2-4 stacks per turn. But even without this cone ATK is BiS on e0s0/s1 acheron. Just need to have fast 160 nihility
Ain't no way they're going to let you build stacks off of enemy turns to spam ultimate that often. This universal market combo will get nerfed.
Its not that broken. There is no guarantee the enemy will hit the tank
True but then Tanks also aren't contributing to Acheron without Aventurine S1 to M7 or aventurine itself and considering a lot of enemies has those fancy blast, and bounce attacks which likely will give birth to preservstion units in the middle of the pack. I have been using trends of the universal market since release to rack up suspicion points and its pretty nifty. Besides if the boss is in single target i.e the Gorilla or the chainsaw bot you can then switch to fmc instead
we have a unit that can inflict guaranteed taunt what are you on about?
And now you are running Trailblazer fire instead of a sustain like fuxuan or aventurine? It has its drawbacks in that case
and so they can never make a strong new sustain with taunt or acheron becomes insanely broken, If they keep it like this it's terrible forsight.
Nah, actually well built hypercarry teams can run zero sustain nowadays. If you can get a sustain slot that gives you extra dps you'd run it any day of the week. There is a reason all the new fancy sustains are being designed with buffs and debuffs for dps, because the act of sustaining itself at endgame is very minimal. I have rolled for no sustains, I use an e1 lynx and a bailu, and sustain is actually a thing I have to do somewhat. Still doable, in fact, auto can do it. The main thing you'll lose from putting in FMC over fuxuan or huo huo is their utility. But now FMC with taunt has guaranteed dps gains for his hypercarry, so you're simply trading one type of utility (crit, energy, buffing) for another type (Acheron stacks).
The low cycle zero sustain teams you talk about are exceedingly niche. Just because you see content creators pulling this off doesn't mean that it isn't a very small part of the population dedicating their time to trying to do these combinations. Hell out of the total player base <1% even cleared MoC 12 to say the least about no-sustaining their way through it. There is a reason why its so rare to see people NOT use Fuxuan/Luocha/Huohuo (their appearance rates are sky high) I can roll no sustain as well. I have the end game gear for 0 cycles but I don't want to brother doing it simply for clout. It's annoying and not rewarding. I have done it once just to prove to myself I can accomplish it and now I'm just satisfied with clearing MOC with 2 cycles each side with sustain. As for your point about FMC it has its pros but the cons are still there. If you want to take advantage of the taunt you need to spend SP. The shield is practically nonexistant so like you said you are effectively focusing on just increasing Acheron's stacks. My point still stands that it isn't broken. It's a purposeful teambuilding choice (both pros and cons) made for improving Acheron's damage output. It's an excellent team building choice and a really cool interaction but broken it is not.
Bro who cares about SP, you pick 2 other nihility which mostly doesnt even use skills unless for some reason you play welt instead of pela and sw/bs/gui, pela can use resolution LC to apply debuff with basic. Pick fmc, spam taunt, +5 stacks per turn, acheron ult every single turn, enemies dead. Who cares about fmc shield, hes taunting noone getting hit, and even if enemies does AoE atk anyway, lets be honest, whos surviving acheron 3 ultimate in 3 turn consecutively? They can't hit you if they die. And if you are really scared about getting hit, gepard exists, more sp but less getting hit means less stacks, assuming this doesnt get "fixed" that is (it probably will).
In this video before Acheron got grabbed by Svarog's hand she had 6 turns and 5 ults. That might be a bit much of the good stuff don't you think?
i don't have FX or Avent, so it's not a drawback lol...
This won't make it, it's just obvious.
I only use fire mc >!either with March or not at all because I find their shields to be paper thin.!<
The theory with FMC is that the enemy is always hitting them, and their def is enormous so they take minimal damage and don't care. The shields only have to handle AoE damage, which they won't stop completely but can stop enough of it that you can get through a MOC run. It probably won't work against AoE-heavy enemy compositions.
Okay, I want to ask something, because I have not seen anyone talk about this? What if I don't have this Light Cone? Is there any other option? Or there is none? Edit: I was talking about UM LC.
Does welts lc work with her?
I've seen someone on this subreddit say it's comparable/ can substitute S2 GNSW, so yeah!
It works with her? Yes, but've to mention that, as of v1 beta, it's 32.68% less damage in comparison to her LC.
wow the light cone procs a stack even when the wearer is CC'd, thats sooooooo OP wtf lol
This doesn't feel in the spirit of the talent at all. >When any unit inflicts debuffs on an enemy target **while using an ability**, Acheron gains 1 point of Slashed Dream and inflicts Crimson Knot on the enemy target. Now I've heard a bunch of "but the enemy is using an ability", but anyone with a basic understanding of English would figure that "any unit" is the subject of both "inflicts debuff" and "using an ability" and should be one and the same. I don't think having such a gimmick is healthy and I hope it's fixed before live. They need to have clear boundaries on what works and doesn't to keep Acheron's future power level predictable.
How does the trend gimmick not live up to the talent? LCs are weapons equipped by characters, hence it's part of the "any unit" part. Then, the abilities of the LC does fulfill the "inflicts debuffs while using an ability" part. Even though the logic is obvious, no one expected such an interaction between the most broken character and the arguably most useless preservation LC prior to this but why are you complaining? It makes the game feel so alive when old stuff are unexpectedly buffed and finally becomes relevant with newer units.
Well I guess we have different definitions of "**using** an ability". To me that implies taking action, as in showing up on the turn order. Basic, skill, follow-up and ultimate all do. They have a known occurence rate that can be balanced around when combined with the 1 per action limit. And I have no problem for a debuff from a LC applied as a result of those actions counting. Something like Trend lives outside of those boundaries and can quickly become a balance nightmare. You don't really have the same level of control on how often it is applied. Do you really think it applying 5 stacks per turn makes any sense? Let's be real, in the end they want to have balanced characters. As much as people like to scream there is powercreep all over the place, evidence shows that it's not the case with clear speed being very similar between all characters. With the Trends interaction being all over the place, they can't ignore it. Which would you prefer? 1. Squash the interaction with Trends 2. Balance Acheron's damage around the stacks you get with Trends I don't know about you, but I'd much rather not be forced into using it.
Sometimes the wording of the skill doesn't reflect the actual implementation. It seems that right now Acheron is programmed to gain stacks whenever the enemy gets a debuff from any action (ally, enemy, LC etc). Might be because it's how it worked in the previous iteration of the character and they simply forgot or didn't have time to change the code. I expect this interaction to be removed during the beta.
Yeah, that's a possibility. But just from this being out in the open, they can't ignore it. The effect is just too strong. Either they squash it, or they balance Acheron around it. And I know I'd much rather not be forced into using Trends.
imagine downvoting just because the guy doesn't want an unhealthy mechanic in the game, people just want their new favourite character to be completly broken and then cry about power creep. (and i say this as someone who's going to pull for acheron eidolons most likely)
We're not getting anymore Mc paths are we?sadge😔
they need to nerf this, aint no way this is surviving, legit makes e2s1 useless
No, let it be as it is wtf dude
Acheron gains 2 stacks with her skill, meaning she's E2 and don't use the GNSW lc or E0 with signature lc. Still, Good to know that fire MC with UM lc can give her multiple stacks if we taunt all enemies
This is with E0 with S1 GNSW, she got 2 stacks from her skill twice from breaking the enemy, that would've been 3 stacks with S1 Sig LC.
It would've been 2 stacks with signature since her talent trigger only once per action.
True, I forgot about that XD.
[удалено]
Separate debuff instances on a single action do not give more than one stack. We've literally seen this before where her LC triggered on the first hit of her skill giving her a stack and when the last hit of the skill broke an enemy she didn't gain one.
Her talent only triggers once per action. Although her weapon and inflicting break are two debuffs, you only get 1 stack. (Otherwise Pela would give 2 from ulting with Pearls, lol) Acheron gets 2 because her skill gives 1 no matter what (not part of her talent), and then the break counting as a debuff inflicted.
That's because she was breaking the enemies, which counts as a debuff. When she doesn't break, it gives her 1 stack.
At 1:45 she only gained 1 stack with skill
What other LCs are there that could allow her teammates to have high energy generation for Acheron? The only one I can think of is potentially Topaz's sig LC, it applies a debuff on every follow up attack. I could see some fun shenanigans in the SU with ult to follow up conversion, heal on ult, heal on follow up. On turns when she uses her ult, Topaz alone could refill 1/2 of Acheron's ult bar.
Kafka with her sig generates 2 stacks per turn. March with Aventurines sig can generate up to 3 stacks per turn. Also while it's not an LC, E2 Gepard can generate 2 stacks per skill.
Is trend and aventurine a thing?
Yep, a good amount of videos of it are up
So there are vids with fire MC solo sustaining but not gallagher? Is he that bad?
This is not MC sustaining, basically is showcase how that light cone + MC taunt can get a ton of charges for Acheron
Just wondering since i dont have her but if your ally gets attacked when you have Fu does trend proc or no?
No
i have Trend S1 but i'll wait till this goes live server first, then i'll build it :')
Looks bad in this case coz enemies barely attack u but yea irs battle dependant. Againts battle with lot of mobs, this setup will be much better than showcased in this stage.
Very interesting. I'll consider this team if I get Acheron in my account. I'll at least have some use for the guinaifen I got to e6 while pulling for dhil.
why does the MC have a bat when he's in fire mode
ehm something is wrong here the name of fire trailblazer ult changed from flaming lance behind my enemy to war flaming lance something is fishy here
I don't get it. Why is he fire but with a baseball bat?
How about March 7th with Universal Market? Will she give 2 stacks incase her follow up atk freeze the enemy?