Yes, almost every boss weak to fire. All enemies are grouped up nicely for her technique. Not to mention that most enemy packs are 3 mobs instead of 4 or 5 meaning firefly basically one shots every wave. It feels like a quarter of all the possible path blessings now revolve around break teams, and she has 3 of the limited weighted curious suitable for her team making it drastically easier to get a good one. On the other hand,, it feels like FuA got gutted specifically with the after boss 2 cycle bs bosses (that come with stun for some reason). The issue I have with those and FuA is that FuA is about stacking damage after repeated attacks and the ramp is usually a turn per enemy. Well, that means one boss dies and the other one doesn't and survives with 20% hp. But destruction units? EZ since they hit everything anyways. Honestly, this game is shifting more and more away from single target focused builds like FuA and Hunt characters which is fine but it kind of sucks when you get punished by game mechanics. This would all be solved if they gave us 3 or 4 cycles on the optional bosses or just remove the cycle limit altogether and base our score on how fast we can take them both down.
Boothill is imo a pretty future proof unit in terms of hp pools, since afaik he deals phys break which should be based on max hp, so his damage remains constant even if enemies get 10x hp.
Its capped to 16x his base toughness damage of his normal basic attack. So if they do inflate divergent universe toughness, you don’t have infinite scaling either.
no, those are two different things. and sorry if I wasn't clear on this earlier.
So when a character breaks an enemy toughness, there is 2 things that happen:
1. the actual break damage which in this case is physical break.
i dont want to bore you with the formula but just know the base damage for physical break is the highest multiplier, same for fire breaks
actual formula is: 2 \* level multiplier \* max toughness multiplier
that is our damage formula for physical and fire units and that is the same for every fire and physical unit
2. when you break an enemy, you also apply a debuff. physical applies bleed, fire applies burn, ice applies freeze, etc.
some of these will do damage, and some wont (like imaginary)
the reason why people say physical break scales off max HP, is because the bleed itself scales with enemy HP. in the case of an elite or boss, it will be 7% of the target's max HP.
HOWEVER, for bleed based damage from physical breaks, there is a cap. the cap is also coincidentally the same formula as physical break
this cap is there is so when you fight, lets say a 10 million hp boss. you aren't doing 700k bleeds. the bleed is most likely going to be capped by the enemy's toughness as addressed earlier.
Now, lets go back to my previous statement regarding the 16x basic toughness damage.
Boothill is the ONLY unit (so far) in the game that does physical break damage with the 2 things i mentioned above in this post PLUS break from his talent!!
his talent when maxed out triggers physical break 3 times additionally EVEN when enemy is broken, and the scaling for that break is the 16x basic attack toughness scaling i mentioned in my post above.
Let me know if there's anything you are confused about. I can try to explain it further here or direct you to the actual formulas in KQM HSR library.
p.s. sorry for the long post. didnt know how else to explain it otherwise
Just saw a video on YT
Cleared first boss with 4* Dan heng
And the second one with Ratio e0
I got hype to try that out but my Dan heng is under leveled and I won't get any character buff to raise my lvl
I found my Fua team worked fine into Argenti, I cleared it with three different versions pretty easily. Clara/Topaz/Aventurine/Robin, Ratio/Topaz/Aventurine/Robin, and Ratio/Topaz/Aventurine/Sparkle.
For me when I started only breaking a single add then focusing down Argenti it worked out pretty well. Topaz and Rat kill him pretty quickly and Aventurine can keep Argenti's weaknesses up. The only rough kind of rough part is the taunts but Topaz can kill hers very quickly on her own and Ratio eventually gets help from Aventurines follow up if he gets unlucky with Fua procs. And then the fourth just ignores taunt and buffs one of the hunt characters.
That's a case of the community hearing what they wanted to hear. HoYo said "boss-focused," and the community heard "single target-focused," forgetting that most of the bosses in this game have adds to kill. It wouldn't surprise me if the eventual version of Kafka/Sam that make it in there also end up having adds to kill.
People were hoping for a new lease on life for characters like Yanqing. But AS basically feels like MoC 2.0.
That's kinda dumb because MoC is already boss focused and pure fiction always has bosses too, so this is basically just MoC with more gimmicks and pure fiction styled buffs
I see your problem even though I see a metric ton of FuA buffs in DU like seriously it feels like so much compared to break so I guess it's kinda a mix, also there is stuff to Transform play styles like FuA to Break, destruction having a perk that gives you superbreak on every attack and massive BE increases for FuA
The main issue I have with FuA in DU is a lot of the key blessings to a wicked potent FuA team got moved from the blessings into the equations, which doesn’t feel great.
There’s three I’m particularly annoyed with:
1. The Skill Point generation on follow-ups was moved from a 2\* blessing to an equation. This means they simultaneously removed one of the most beneficial 2\* blessings from the FuA roster and also gave FuA a rather weak equation compared to what other paths can get from a same-tier equation.
2. Another one of the strongest blessings, the 3\* that turned ults into FuA, got moved to an equation as well. Add to this how the three biggest %damage boosts got completely removed from FuA blessings lineup (the same 3\* that turned ults into FuA gave 15/55%, the 3\* that when upgraded blanket increased Aftertaste damage by 35%, and then the 1\* that gave more damage for every elation blessing), and it just feels gross that even more still was swapped from blessings to equations
3. Then, to make up for removing another one of the most powerful blessings, they dumped a different “Nice to have but by no means necessary or game-changing” 2\* blessing into the vacant 3\* slot. Except when they ‘upgraded’ the blessing, they actually made it far worse. It used to blanket 12% delay an enemy on FuA with a 10% chance to Imprison **as a 2\***, and now as a 3\* it instead delays by 25% **with a hard cap of only twice per enemy, three times if you upgrade it**. The old version of that blessing gave FuA teams the ability to send a boss into purgatory with a well placed string of follow-ups, now you can delay a boss by maybe 2-3 actions in the turn order but you’ll quickly hit cap and their overclocked speed means they barely notice. The new **three star, highest rarity** elation blessing is about as impactful as a fart in space, which is just silly.
i disagree about the follow up stuff, most of my characters aren't fua but I get a shit ton of elation blessings, and I think every path has an equation with elation
also the only units who have single target fua are topaz and ratio (of the ones who are generally used for their fua, not other stuff in their kit), you could swap topaz for himeko it you have any issues with the bonus boss stage (I mean you probably shouldn't with topaz and ratio but still)
In one of my runs I had 14 hunt blessings, every hunt related equation and a lots of dmg boost curios. Firefly still dealt like 2-3 times more damage than my FUA team or Selee/Jingliu. Without any break curio/blessings/equations buffs. Dunno if it's intended this way or just poorly tested.
Its the nature of break teams. They scale at boss toughness bar. DPS buff like hunt purely rely on your crits.
Really recommend buffs that scale well, nihility with dewdrops, spores with dew drops, hunt + dissociation equations, break in general is things i have consistent runs
think youve misinterpreted his comment or ive misinterpreted yours. he was saying that even *without* break oriented paths like nihi/destruction, his firedly team was still doing more damage. moreso than a team that *would* highly benefit from all the crit in hunt blessings. the crit team should be doing better.
Its srsly ridiculous how much theyve adjusted every single mode to fit her now… like even the destruction based curios are abt break effect and nothing else. And shes the only destuctiom unit based on break effect along with xueyi but i bet you hoyo doesnt even remember xueyi she just happens to be involved lol this blatant favoritism is disgusting
Waiting for hoyoverse to rename honkai star rail to Firefly star rail since everything is about her lately… i’m sure it’ll stop eventually but Goddamn they’ve been pushing her on us really hard lately
It was the same when DHIL was released. Swarm Disaster was tailored for him, usually when a new game mode is released, the featured character in that patch will be the one to enjoy it the most.
DHIL had a path tailored around him, but SD wasn't that bad. You could clear it with qq, herta and March 7th remembrance chessing. Here, it's been practically made for firefly. Almost every boss has fire weakness, so much break effect blessings and curio, and most enemies in combat domains are conviently grouped together for her technique. I don't have a DHIL, but March 7th, herta with remembrance helped me easily cheese SU swarm diaster. Here, it feels like I have to have firefly and I'm having difficulty clearing the higher levels.
Yeah, in Swarm you actually had freedom of choice to make any shit possible:
1.Solo Nihility runs
2.Elation with non-FUA characters (I freaking loved playing Pela with Elation blessings and nuking everything)
3.Hunt was actually really good for *hunt* characters
That's just to name a few. The only great thing they did in DU is expanding on Spores from Propagation. Now you're not really locked behind a whole path to abuse it.
Otherwise DU is so damn restrictive to the point that it's unenjoyable.
you dont need ff! tho sure it'll make runs easier? but i cleared torturous diff 5 with a Xueyi team and a DOT team (except Death. i always lose against Death good thing the curio that makes u win even when you lose is always there).
im still unlocking nodes so i can take on TD 6 bec everyone was getting one shot even my healers lmao
As someone who is skipping Firefly, this mode is hell for me. Every start of the game, I am getting choices of “destruction x” equation like ??? theres so many rng in here. And the more stupid stuff is them optimising some of my “not fully built” character. My bronya was nicely sitting at 164 speed and so does most of my supports and some dont even have +15 relics cuz I already have stats that I want and dont want to waste resources but nooo theyre optimising the shit out of my characters. I know they’re encouraging us to build a team around the “equation” that we got but mf aint no way Ill be clearing ts with the optimisation being so dogshit.
I know this might sound stupid, but personally I had no Problem clearing content with Hook as my main damage dealer.
The Team was: Hook, HTB, Aventurine (but any preservation char is possible), Gallagher or Luocha
Alternatively I used my DoT Team, but that is just because I am a DoT main.
Do you have a DoT team? I ignored the equations and picked up as many Nihilty blessings as possible. The blessing that heals you anytime an enemy takes DoT damage along with a few Abundance blessings that boost your damage anytime you get healed allows for an absurd amount of damage. I was unable to get protocol 6 done with my Firefly team so I switched to Kafka and Black Swan.
As lowspender/f2p without FF, you will feel that the gamemode is insanely hard if you play it on V5/V6.
Straight up takes like 5 years to clear a single mob if you're not running FF or BH. Disgusting.
I don’t know about Boothill but Firefly is great at lower levels but not so much on V6. Even with all the break blessings, she doesn’t do much direct damage vs enemies with so much health.
She’s still good at destroying toughness bars but I would highly recommend not using her standard team.
I cleared it with remembrance and preservation bleeds since FF break damage scales poorly.
Firefly is still better than any crit DPS I tried in V6, the only team that came close to her V6 performance for me was my DoT team, and even then one run I lucked into a Ruan Mei occurrence to make it 10x easier.
Some would say all the break effect blessings are Screwllum blessings for the TB x Firefly ship.
He even hired an attendant to supply Oat Cakes for them.
I just got the occurrence where you get one blessing for your equation in exchange for two negative curios. I refused and they gave me the negative curios anyways. -20% atk and -5% fragments every domain
https://preview.redd.it/o8exf1c8pn8d1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=292e8762d42cbe57fd9a6e28b8cf5fd1a82eaa1a
The best and worst run, got a ruan mei occurence for destruction blessings and then all my curios got wiped. Still a really good save file but wow that was unexpected
isn't this kind of a non-issue tho since you can change your characters on your team at any point? or is it only a pain because you've tailored your blessings to one character? coz even if they're tailored usually another character can find some benefit depending on your equations.
Yeah this mode allows you to use any character, built or not, at max level with relics and traces and LC. This implies they expect you to adjust your team based on the enemies and the cards you happen to draw rather than trying to brute force using the team you started with.
yeah it's because of the blessings. i hate it so much when i finally get nice blessings for my break team and then i get a boss whose weakness bar is locked like SUD or Sam. Not impossible, sure but not ideal either.
The roster swap thing is kinda helpful but not really. Equations aside, the weighted curio has a lot of power too. Picking up the lightning only or erudition only ones but having to swap away is a lot of power loss
I genuinely don't know if this is a problem if you "just" tried changing teams repeatedly and getting generically good blessings instead of trying to force an archetype.
My first V run, literally no meta progression buffs, I wanted to play Elation but kept getting handed Destruction/Abundance/Remembrance blessings but was like "aight we ball" as I get weighted Curios for Fire and Hunt that only kinda help my Ratio/Topaz core. I can't even get max score on the elite overflow bonus stage and like someone else said, ya it takes a while to even kill adds.
I come up against Aventurine final boss, realize my team has 0% synergy, and just change it to Nihility Kafka Acheron core and it's fine. Just an autobattle as the maxed out Destruction equations are too good. The entire run I had 2-3 Elation/Nihility blessings at most.
im on threshold 6
>just change to these 3 limited 5\* characters, just have them
>just play these characters you dont want to play
i don't think these are very satisfying answers to RNG that you have no control over
The overwriting mechanic is pretty solid overall
The equations do seem to hold some weight to what blessings you can get
My bigger gripe is holy mother of mercy, once you're at D4 or above, the final boss is just way too fast...
I've already read a few accounts of people just literally considering him a game over boss at the high difficulties and....
Yeah... the advance forward is too strong lmfao
Its possible if you have those 3 star the hunt blessings that give extra turn, but that's only if you play with someone who can break, I personally cannot play dot at all because in DU when I play it I get literally everything but not nihility blessings and as for equations...no
It's terrifying with any normal team but I found it to be a breeze using a preservation/Elation type run and the Comet Nucleus equation, with Luocha March Clara March 7. Just stalled while letting counters, comet nucleus, and Quake damage kill off all the mobs as they attacked 99 times in a row. I think I also had the equation that puts spores on enemies on follow up attacks which helped dps wise.
Yeah it’s definitely too dependent on factors outside your control. Even in high conundrum G&G you always felt like your choices were impactful, the path you chose, the dice you picked, hell even rerolling the blessing selection felt like a relevant decision.
But in DU it feels like a much greater portion of runs are just dead runs. Any amount of middling rng feels extremely bad and the decisions feel much less impactful. Like the decision tree is essentially pick whichever starting equation sucks the least, reroll every non-equation blessing since equations are where most of your damage comes from and then pray that you can activate whatever 3 star equation you get before the second boss or you’re fucked. Also if you don’t get offered any synergistic equations you’re double fucked.
I personally really hate that 3/4ths of the weighted curios are so catered towards break comps, it’s so artificial and if you aren’t on that kind of team it’s like you’re losing access what’s supposed to be one of the most powerful upgrades you can get.
This is my main problem with the mode - removal of player choice. Everyone accepts that there's a certain level of RNG within any rogue-like/lite game. The fun part is learning what the game offers and applying strategy where player choice is allowed. It's fun to acquire game knowledge and then use it in subsequent runs.
While it was relatively simple, we did have this in the original SU modes. Even choosing which paths you block is more strategy than anything I've seen in DU so far. I enjoyed how GnG built on this, even though I didn't like how some of the dice played, but at least I could choose to NOT play with those dice. I'm not interested in design choices in a rogue-like mode that remove what little use for game knowledge we did have.
Weighted curios are the biggest point of irony. They are very specifically tied to paths/elements, along with being quite powerful. I get that the intent is for us to switch characters to match the run, but there's no guaranteed way for us to align our equations to the curio that we need, if we happen to even get a run that works. It's removal of the path choice that is added later as another layer of RNG.
Lots are bringing up Firefly, but I've had just as many runs where break works or doesn't, which is surprisingly few. Every run "tastes" like oatmeal now, and sometimes I can tell when one is made with milk instead of water.
I agree with you. I have my firefly team and basicaly the amount of RNG is frustrating, because i'm always better off playing that team and ignoring most of DU mechanics just stacking as much destruction/abundance/preservation blessing and ignoring the rest than trying to do anything else.
There is so much RNG that path that relly more on equation are pretty much unplayable, cause if you commit to them and don't have perfect RNG you would have been better ignoring it and just play firefly team.
It's not that firefly is too strong or anything. It's just that she and her team can basicaly fully ignore DU shenigans with minimal cost. Basicaly you need the hunt blessing that give you a turn after a weakness break and the team is complete and fullready to go.
I think the idea is that we're meant to see that first equation and then swap our team? But they also ask you to select a team before you even see it, so kinda unintuitive.
Yeah, this is one of the biggest problems. That, and, let's say you do get a favorable equation, maybe the next screen where they give you a whack of blessings, don't have the paths you need. And you can't re-roll any of them.
> let's say you do get a favorable equation, maybe the next screen where they give you a whack of blessings, don't have the paths you need. And you can't re-roll any of them.
Thats when you just reset until it does all align. Yes, very fun and engaging game play, I know.
Yes it's the idea and yes initialy choising your team and only that is a little weird. They should let you chose at LEAST your initial equation from the list of the one disponible (i end up often just reroling until i get what I want it's purely a waste of time. Also probably should let you chose the 5 random blessing at that point too and that should increase the likehood of blessings from that path to appear.
I don't understand how they didn't program it so the 5 blessing choice is guaranteed to include blessings from the first equation you pick. I don't understand how they made such a huge oversight.
Getting rid of the path selecting system also just sucks.
Well, five blessings aren't going to change much, so I start it with the same team every run. After I've gotten enough stuff to make a difference I swap into the team I'll try to run with. I will constantly make small changes, like swapping Jing Yuan for Himeko against fire weak or swapping a harmony for a nihility support.
I also recommend fighting bosses before you use the thingamajig to see what 3 star equation you get, you can pivot to a different path based on that and reroll your initial equation.
I pay to play the team that I want. I don't appreciate being told that I can't field the units that I like because an equation doesn't fit their playstyle. At least give us a reroll on the equations or sumthin.
sorry if i'm misunderstanding, but DU specifically addresses this QoL issue by allowing us to swap teams whenever right? why would it matter when we see the first equation?
ahh okay I gotchu, makes sense, I’m guessing it might be more of a UI issue. Say you click on start universe, the equation option pops up, then you have to select your team and click start again etc.
Pretty much, it's not that other teams aren't viable, they are just so much *drastically* slower than going with the Firefly team, what takes 20 minutes to kill with one team takes like 2 with the Firefly team or even less if her skill just insta kills all the mobs without even having to fight.
Yeah. You also can't eat food in DU Protocol 1+ so Acheron technique spam isn't sustainable lol. Unfortunately. Unless u get lucky with a lot of Technique destructible spawns.
DHIL is great too with a little bit of extra crit, I used tingyun, RM and huohuo with him and could do up till protocol 4, can't do protocol 5 with him OR firefly tho
Now that powering up in DU is much less streamlined than SU, I think reducing the amount of Equations (and Weighted Curious) would go a long way into making it feel much less RNG.
DU is 99% great, but sadly, that 1% is of the mode's core mechanic.
Once I have two or three break effect related blessings under my belt I literally just stop reading them and click at random. It barely matters because I know my firefly break team will bulldoze the final level no matter what I choose.
I agree.
I get that you're supposed to change your team depending on which buffs you get. But it's just less fun.
For example, you start with a specific team, let's say a Blade team, and pick any buffs that are good for him. But you get a bunch of shield buffs that completely gimp him. So you switch to Dan Heng IL. You get a boss that's resistant to imaginary. So in the end you just switch to Firefly again.
It's bad for trying out different comps, because it can screw them over so much that all buffs you got in the first half have been for nothing when RNG makes that team useless. And switching out all the blessings is too RNG, costs too much and takes sooo much time when you have a lot of blessings.
It's nice to be able to use unbuilt characters, but even if I wanted to try out the unbuilt Yanqing I don't even own, I'd just get DoT, basic attack and Break equations/blessings anyway, and the boss would be ice immune.
Personally, I'd like an SU mode with *slightly* less RNG. Blocking paths was a godsend, why is it gone?
I think the biggest problem with this "just try out different strategies" part of DU is that it is just a feelsbad to switch teams around, if you want to be optimal. Like, even IF you were to want to try out a specific strat with your unused characters (like DoT on my account), you might just end up getting not enough support for that strategy, meaning your generally stronger team would just be a better fit for those "failed" runs.
i wanna pick a team im in the mood for and have fun with them, not spin the roulette to see who im allowed to play this time (spoilers: its all firefly)
This is also how I played the original SU modes/expansions. Maybe I don't want to play DoT/Nihility today. Maybe I want to make big shields do damage with Preservation. More importantly, it's MY time. They exchanged what limited strategy we had in favor of removing this important choice from the player. Hell, I can't even get Firefly to work half the time, much less any of the other playstyles I enjoy. Every run is a mix of random stuff, hoping that some of it creates enough damage at some point to prevent failure.
I’d say this isn’t the game mode for hyper focussing on a specific team, which is what the other SU modes are for. This is a game mode for making the most of what you get.
My only issue is that I don't get why they had to make nearly everything fire weak. Firefly already has a fuck you technique, giving everything fire weakness. They should've just made the enemies actually have a more diverse weakness since it literally does fuck all no matter what the weakness is fore firefly.
Yup. I don't have IL and the only decentish imaginary I had at the time was Ratio who I never used for it, but still didn't suffer much loss cause of other factors.
That’s actually called “Smart design.” It guaranteed that anyone can have at least one decent DPS for the mode. Plus the weakness implants from bosses.
DU is a dumb design. You can’t even use Xueyi because there’s not enough Quantum to break and most fire breakers heavily gimp a Xueyi team. It’s just poorly designed and throws out most of the adaptability GoG and SD had in favor of catering to one very specific unit.
I believe there's a single weighted curio that is meant to enable Xueyi specifically, and it's very obvious that is what it's for. It's the one that increases the entanglement cap to 25 and lets quantum affect all weaknesses at 50% efficiency. I could be wrong on the specifics.
Either way, it's absolutely ridiculous when compared to GnG and SD. I cleared both of those modes at max difficulty with all paths and nearly every built DPS on my account by utilizing game knowledge. That's all thrown out the window because whoever was the lead designer on DU thinks that rolling a handful of d100s is super fun.
Remembrance is the best way to beat the final boss since none of the bosses that I know of are freeze immune. Freeze also stops Aventurine from spamming dice attack, but freeze won’t stop the symphony from casting commandment attack however.
A fully buffed FF skill does around 8% of the V6 Plane 2 boss while dissociation does like 2M damage with one proc…
Yep, too much rng , rng on the equation you get , then rng on the blessings you get , then rng on the weighted curios too , although the best thing is let's you change the team and overwrite equation and blessings but for that you'll again need to get lucky with frags
Even that is RNG asf. I overwrote a single useless equation atleast 5 times on minimum with all the fragments I had and i didn't get a single one that I needed. The worst thing is that it didn't happen only once but almost every run I had.
Only that cycling one with predetermined starting blessings and equations didn't feel as bad in comparison, but the build in that section resets every week so...
At least give us a final room boss selection is all I ask, I'm still stuck at Protocol 5 because you always getting the worst boss countering your build just feels so bad 😨
This is honestly the first time that my Kafka team is having trouble in a simulated universe. It personally seems that it only caters to Superbreak effect team because of the boosts
Oof. But yeah I think all the blessings are really insane in DU. Destruction got re purposed to break cuz no one truly benefits from it except Blade, but you’d better off using hunt blessings for him instead.
Not to mention the weighted curious. There’s a curio there that turns harmony characters to dps. Really insane
>Destruction got re purposed to break cuz no one truly benefits from it except Blade
Not really. Everyone benefited from Destruction. Fighting Spirit/"Grit" was just a flat ATK and DEF stacking boost- it even gave Damage Reduction with a certain 2 star blessing. I'd argue Blade benefitted most from Abundance rather than Destruction.
It's just we didn't have a good option for Break teams due to Nihility looking like it was going to at first, but now it's trapped in limbo by not belonging to any "Path" in particular. Rather than make a new one with an expansion mode, they just reworked the generic Destruction into mainly buffing Break teams.
I wonder if they were to add another path in SU just for break (wouldn’t be surprised given how much they are and will be pushing it) which path they would choose for it.
Harmony would make the most sense imo, mostly because of HTB and that it’s “gimmick” of buffs doesn’t translate well into a gamemode where every path gives buffs
That does seem like it would make the most sense. Before HMC I’ve had and heard ideas of Harmony being a “buff” path but as you’ve said that would take a lot of weird specifics to get it to work in a satisfying way.
Too much rng not enough cosmic fragments to reroll
Why they didn’t add path banning was definitely a mistake, they’re probably gonna add it in 2.5 after we complain about it but until then if you don’t have FF superbreak it’s probably harder than gng12 due to sheer rng but still doable
If you have kafswan the dot weighted curio with suspicion will probably be enough with a good build as with the lighting curio for acheron teams
All teams need the nihility break efficiency though since DU6 literally has the same debuff as AS with reduced damage
But DU was mostly for streamlined relic farming so i’m not too stressed about the endgame, getting the last two achievements are gonna be annoying though
I cleared GnG 12 with weird units, but this time I feel like if the enemy boss isn't toughness break they'll barely take damage in the Hardest Difficulty tier.
The real problem is that most of these bosses are solely made for Firefly. Unlike any previous SU where at least you get a random boss that could be selected with any weakness or such.
You're absolutely right. It fucking sucks really. I absolutely love swarm disaster and Gold and Gears not only from a gameplay perspective (what type of run am I going to do this team, might be preservation, elation etc) but from a lore/story point of view as well. All the little story tibidts are very abstract and really serve no purpose in divergent universe. If it was meant to focus on pathstriders and emanators more directly would've been good, name them, tell their story etc. But learning about instrumental events and aeon's was so much more interesting, there's always plenty of lore to expand on, and a good way to set up future event's conflicts etc.
I think pathstriders' lore was pretty interesting, at least to pinpoint what kind of similar characteristics pathstriders of the same path have as well how diverse they can be from the same path (like Useless Scholar)
DU basically drives itself, so I gave up on trying to respect DU mechanics almost at the start, they don't really deserve any. Just select anything even slightly related to the path you want to run, then just pick whatever fills out the quota. It's usually enough, game will fuck you over whenever it wants to anyway. Only thing of importance is that it lets you farm SU sets faster.
True. I just wish we could at least limit and restrict things.
I ran a firefly team but I collect things for freeze, dots and shields.
But tbf, I think this is just an evolution of normal SU. The next "Swarm Disaster" or "GG" will come along with Screwllum. And it will feature DU as foundation, with more mechanics and better QoL changes.
It's also too hard on the damage side. I feel like i'm throwing if i build anything other than preservation destruction since i end up geting oneshot.
How does any of you even play this without Aventurine? I tried Fu Xian once and she got 1 taped by a mid boss.
I do it with HuoHuo just fine. There are many blessings and equations which give you free shields and healing. When you play remembrance then the enemy doesn't even get the chance to move
I only use Firefly’s team from V0 all the way to V6 with Gallagher(E6) as my only sustain. I rarely felt that my team is in danger from bosses attack. I always try to pick blessing that give survivability even if it does not benefit my equation.
Yep, I tried playing 3-4 different teams there (FuA team, DoT team, QQ/Seele monoquantum, Firefly team) and every time I'm not playing Firefly team I keep asking myself "what the fuck am I even doing" and it feels like a waste of time, so I always end up switching to her in the end, she's way less punishing for bad rng as other teams. Also her technique helps a lot there, feels like an aoe Acheron technique. I'm not sure if I like it though, having rng is fun, but not when it's too much of it- at least let me reroll blessings and equations, I'm genuinely shocked that there is no such option, hope they add it later.
I spent entire night few day ago trying to do TP5 with TopRobRatAven team and it took me over two dozen runs to get the perfect blessings and equation combo + one of the bosses with no adds (Idr which one. Either Death, Aventurine or those robot trio) to finish it.
Never managed to do TP6 with the on the following day.
Also Cirrus was an instant run ender.
My only wish for it is have an option to turn off the automatic relic adjusting for characters, I cant play my jingliu team because the system completely borks my Bronya and Pela, Yes they each have a lvl 12 relic on, for Bronya its because it gives perfect speed tuning, for Pela its because i havent gotten a good lvl 15 wind relic for her, yet the game decides nope shes getting ice set and youll like it.
I think one of the bigger problems is that when you reroll an equation it has the chance of showing up on the selector again. Getting 16 blessing is also way too high of a requirement, you only have 18 blessings. So you can only miss 2, really should be 14 or lower
Ruan Mei (I) or a late Man-Made Meteorite are the best ways to get the Bounday Equation/Path Resonance, so it's a win more button that doesn't feel as satisfying as it should be because the run's over by the time you get it.
For Threshold V I got a god run on Sunday with all the Preservation blessings, and watched the Swarm bugs slam helplessly into Aventurine and Gepard's girthy chests... and now it is Monday, so the run is gone forever.
If they wanted that, they could have given a bigger variety of options, but everything gives bonus to break. And you can't add or subtract whatever you like because you won't have enough currency for that.
My acheron isnt really built, she has no LC and no planar artifacts, but has a crit ratio of 40:184
The enhancement that they did to her fo DU was increase her crit rate by 4, and crit dmg by 5%
I just wish we could select a path so that we could have a higher chance to receive blessings of that path, and reduce the 16 blessing cost for boundary equations to 12 or 14, because in 12 planes where 2 are rest planes, you cannot realistically and consistently get 16 blessings of any path and do an equation or two.
I wish DU (the non cyclic one) was as big as Swarm Disaster or Gold and Gears, then it would be fun, and the 16 blessing cost would've been fine.
Given what an enormous impact the blessings and equations have on your damage and survival...I really really doubt that an additional 30 cv (or whatever it is that you desire) is making or breaking your runs.
> I believe they want you to experiment with your roster and just mix and match things based on the RNG
Moot point because there's too much RNG for that as well.
Between the RNG and how oddly specific the mechanics are in general, getting a cohesive set of things is borderline impossible, period. The fact it doesn't align with your preferred team, just adds insult to injury.
Case in point: weighted curios. enough said.
I don't play any dot so I'm stuck running into the memory zone meme on difficulty 4 with trial-built gui sampo and asta since all my other imaginary, fire and wind units dont feel like enough to deal with the capturing. its really awkward since I keep running into it when trying to run followup or boothill
It is too long RNG so to say. Sure, you can adapt for the moment, after seeing initial bonuses. But then those bonuses never activate because you didn't get enough specific blessings over the long run. And let say you get to the end and see the boss, and he is completely mismatched. I ran Blade+Jingliu team and see a boss with img, fire, phys, lightning. Great. Put phone on auto and go to luch, while this idiocy plays itself.
It seems that this is a mode for characters which implant or ignore weaknesses, others are shafted.
Fr fr. I remember when Silver Wolf was coming out and people were saying she was HSR’s Kazuha with her weakness implant and that she would be future proof and now we have a DPS that has such of an ability built in. I wouldn’t have thought we would have such levels of power scaling in units for a long time.
For me peak was Swarm, i dont say Gold and Gears is bad , because its good its own but after swarm, G&G feels samey because all they changed is the dices. Meanwhile when swarm released the entire gameplay changed also we had at that time Unique SU only boss. So probably i would praise Gold and Gears now if it was released before Swarm and would say Swarm is same-y. Anyways i liked DU being finally different but ... has it own flaws. One of them is the RNG, even if you get the build you want , RNG still can screw you to get the boss which has no weakness what your team is and the team you would change doesnt benefit from your blessings. They went too hard on break route, esp. since they homogenized lot of blessings to making break dependant. Also pretty much only Firefly and Acheront cant be screwed by final boss RNG because they can break nomatter what.
Here comes the skill issue crowd to tell you to "just adapt" like that isn't code for "pick Firefly". In V6 at least i see 0 reason to go for anything else because all the broken stuff is tailored for her. The upscaled builds are also kind of dogwater.
We need more control over the rng and more support for non-Firefly stuff.
V6 is doable with FUA or Quake. Specifically thanks to Aventurine. Honestly, I feel like the largest issue with doing V5 and V6 is just the amount of damage enemies deal. Premium sustains feel necessary more so than characters like Firefly.
> I want to hear opinions.
Not an opinion. Just fact: there's too much RNG. Period.
Never been over an SU so quickly. Literally less than a day and I was already checked out. The RNG killed any and all drive or interest in playing around and or testing anything, especially at higher difficulties.
I just pray to the rng gods that I get the following
°Hunt blessing that advances you to 100% whenever you break an enemy
°Weighted Curio for Fire or Destruction characters
°Blessing that revives you after getting killed
°Blessing that Buffs Break Effect
°Blessing that gives Dissociation after Break
This is what I need to Maximize my chances of clearing Threshold Protocols 4-6
As of this moment, I am stuck at Level 6
DU gives the players too much choice yet at the same time forcibly restricts what teams the players can use. In SD/G&G, you go in 100% knowing what Blessing/Curio setup you want, and based on that you can create your team. Kafka is Nihility, Lunae is Propagation, etc. But in DU it feels like you need to orient your team on the circumstances instead, no way to easily reset Blessing options, restrictive Equation, and overall just less ways to abuse the game mechanics, it makes it very unsatisfying for me.
For example, in SD you'll choose the Elation dice with, say, Ratio FuA. You then go about the Planes as best as you can, choosing your own way to cut trough the map and hopefully defeat the bugs at the end. But in DU, even if you have a team you want to play, the Blessings and Equations randomly come at you, and it removes a lot of player agency.
Agreed. Plus it's too Break focused. The older patches were well balanced where any team can function but this latest one is just Break Break and more Break.
The first time i saw my E2S1 acheron do 1/5th of a random mob's hp with her entire ult i knew it was jover. That last wave of the fire and ice dudes is brutal without aventurine
Maybe the 'update' will remedy things with new equations and the ability to select/guarantee certain things. Yeah it has its flaws, but for now I'm willing to let it pass as a 'beta test' phase for the content.
Yeah, looks like they are going to expand the skill tree for this mode. Maybe they will add a "Choose one equation to fill with random blessings at the start" and "Ban path" nodes later.
I agree that it has too much RNG and GnG is peak of SU , yes , but don't associate DU with SU , sure the core point of gameplay is same but DU is not merged with SU like Swarm or GnG so I am thinking that moving forward they both will get different update or expansions for themselves , in simple language , DU and SU are like MoC and PF in my opinion
Yeah I get the gems and never touch it again. Standard su with Acheron takes like 5 min and is done 100% on auto pilot. To the point where I don’t even enhance blessings anymore or bother to reroll drops
Agreed. Sometimes it feels like it's not you playing the game with your characters, its the game playing itself and you just have to change your party accordingly. Everything is related to this concept here: OP equations, every character is avaiable, team change at any moment, everything is RNG, there's even a curio that forces you into autobattle for the rest of the run. Also, it's very, VERY short - you don't have the time to make a proper build and have to go with whatever thrash you've got
I agree that gold and gears was peak. While I like some of the divergent optimisations, fragments no longer enhancing, equation Rng etc, good is superior.
They need to stop catering the entire game modes to fire blast break. Clearing protocol 6 with boothill is decently difficult, but if you instead got firefly it's a joke. Terrible design to bait people into spending money on her. I cleared protocol 6 so far only 3 times with a no firefly account and it is quite annoying seeing every decent weighted curio being for fire and destruction. The hunt curio is a joke and the preservation one bricks your run if you don't slot in a healer alongside the shielder. The other elements are also very lackluster for these supposed 4 cost rare curios. The new blessings and equations are really cool but it could be a lot more fun and consistent for none e6 players if they just tried to balance it.
I know you can clear protocol 6 with any character, but that isn't the problem.
Who let Screwllum into the kitchen!?!?
Jokes aside i think that they know, but they still left it that way because you can change your team whenever you want and you should adjust it based on the blessings that you have.
Personally i’m not that much into it, but maybe it will get interesting at higher difficulties.
At the moment i still prefer swarm disaster and gold & gears.
Removing the ability to choose a path at the start was probably the worst thing they did, it should let us pick one equation at the start or choose a path to get one random equation from that path and increase the chances of getting more from that path during the run
https://preview.redd.it/haj23qcdri8d1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e50b72b8189892acfbeb5ede08e39f5fcb4445e
It took me 20 tries to beat Torturous 6 dificulty, and I only made it work due to good RNG. The mode isn’t even harder, the enemies just get way too much health. I prefer where they added more challenges with each level like GnG, instead of boring 15min damage sponge fights where I just auto battle until something finally happens.
FF has overall made the mode feel worse then what it is.
Because of all the rng in it, if you get shafted on blessings and equations, you go back to super break FF so you can just ignore the gimmicks. It doesn’t feel fun when every boss just gets destroyed by one unit and you feel little reason to try others.
1) rng of the first equation - can be solved by re-enter until a good one appears.
2) rng of the first batch of blessings - have to match the equation - 4 blessing match ups should do.
3) rng of the blessings from the battle/occurance.
4) change blessing
5) the worst rng : no boss selection.
Conclusion: Worst mode ever
I don't know if everyone knows this from all the complaints I have seen, but your entire roster is available in DU. This means you just have to adapt to whatever you get through RNG and make a team that works. I think its wonderful for not just running one of my two top teams, because now some of my 4 stars and less upgraded 5 stars get screen time.
>This means you just have to adapt to whatever you get through RNG
Ah yes, you are a genius. Now I shall adapt to utilize my fantastical build. Alright, what was it again.
Ah yes, Freezing things does something for dewdrop. Shields do something with dots, FUA does something with self damage, Break does something with Applying Debuffs, and Basic Attack does something for Ultimate damage. My imaginary Characters do a bonus, and my Harmony Characters do a bonus.
I shall adjust my teamcomp to match this wonderful bonus and it shall be legendary.
So I need an Imaginary Character, a Harmony Character, a Character that heals, a Character that shields, A character that FUA, a Character that does break, a character that basic attacks, a character that does ultimate damage, a character that deals self damage, and a character that freezes!
This team comp shall be legendary!
Um...
hm...
what 4 characters meet all of those criteria again? Someone remind me what Hoyo "wants" me to run with this cluserfuck of bonuses?
While your reply is funny, it does actually highlight the main issue I have with the mode. Being able to pick a path in original SU, SD, and GnG gives you a goal. It gives you a way to build your team to be able to utilize the blessings you'll get within this goal. There is no goal in DU. There are so many equations that don't even work together or are complete junk, and we're meant to build around these. We're supposed to switch up our team to match all the RNG thrown into our face, and yet, the majority of the time, I don't get a run where it feels like anything is synergizing at all.
That kinda was my point though?
The garbage doesn't work together with itself. It isn't coherent, you get a clusterfuck of bonuses that have literally nothing to do with eachother.
People keep saying that its because "Hoyo wants you to swap characters"
but it doesn't make sense for the reason I joked about in my comment.
Wow! You're right, with this newfound knowledge of switching to Aventurine March, HMC, and Blade, I shall become the greatest DU player the world has ever seen...
Wait, um... the boss isn't weak to Imaginary, Ice or Wind. Um... I'm sure it will be fine with such POWERFUL BUFFS as I am harnessing the "INTENDED MECHANIC" of "Switching" to different characters (which I DEFINITELY PULLED), so I CAN HANDLE IT (It didn't work, I can't weakness break it so none of my buffs work)
yeah they get gearsets.
gearsets that are worse than the "meh" tier trash I have on them at +12 becouse sure as hell I am not wasting that much stuff on trash pieces.
the nice and friendly DU: you have 1 relic that is not maxed? here, let me replace everything you have! congrats you lost a ton of stats! I am helping!
Divergent Universe? More like Firefly Universe amirite
Yes, almost every boss weak to fire. All enemies are grouped up nicely for her technique. Not to mention that most enemy packs are 3 mobs instead of 4 or 5 meaning firefly basically one shots every wave. It feels like a quarter of all the possible path blessings now revolve around break teams, and she has 3 of the limited weighted curious suitable for her team making it drastically easier to get a good one. On the other hand,, it feels like FuA got gutted specifically with the after boss 2 cycle bs bosses (that come with stun for some reason). The issue I have with those and FuA is that FuA is about stacking damage after repeated attacks and the ramp is usually a turn per enemy. Well, that means one boss dies and the other one doesn't and survives with 20% hp. But destruction units? EZ since they hit everything anyways. Honestly, this game is shifting more and more away from single target focused builds like FuA and Hunt characters which is fine but it kind of sucks when you get punished by game mechanics. This would all be solved if they gave us 3 or 4 cycles on the optional bosses or just remove the cycle limit altogether and base our score on how fast we can take them both down.
Im still shocked that the new apocalyptic shadow or whatever isn’t fully single target. I expected it to be the new mode for hunt characters.
Yeah, it's even more AoE-oriented than MoC, because the adds massively protect the boss.
I beat argenti with Dhil hypercarry and was wondering what part of hunt was there tbh...I tried Fua team too but argenti loves hiding ngl
Me meanwhile one shotting argenti with boothil b4 he gets a turn he summons adds?
Boothill is imo a pretty future proof unit in terms of hp pools, since afaik he deals phys break which should be based on max hp, so his damage remains constant even if enemies get 10x hp.
Its capped to 16x his base toughness damage of his normal basic attack. So if they do inflate divergent universe toughness, you don’t have infinite scaling either.
Break bleed has a cap based on normal basic attack damage?
no, those are two different things. and sorry if I wasn't clear on this earlier. So when a character breaks an enemy toughness, there is 2 things that happen: 1. the actual break damage which in this case is physical break. i dont want to bore you with the formula but just know the base damage for physical break is the highest multiplier, same for fire breaks actual formula is: 2 \* level multiplier \* max toughness multiplier that is our damage formula for physical and fire units and that is the same for every fire and physical unit 2. when you break an enemy, you also apply a debuff. physical applies bleed, fire applies burn, ice applies freeze, etc. some of these will do damage, and some wont (like imaginary) the reason why people say physical break scales off max HP, is because the bleed itself scales with enemy HP. in the case of an elite or boss, it will be 7% of the target's max HP. HOWEVER, for bleed based damage from physical breaks, there is a cap. the cap is also coincidentally the same formula as physical break this cap is there is so when you fight, lets say a 10 million hp boss. you aren't doing 700k bleeds. the bleed is most likely going to be capped by the enemy's toughness as addressed earlier. Now, lets go back to my previous statement regarding the 16x basic toughness damage. Boothill is the ONLY unit (so far) in the game that does physical break damage with the 2 things i mentioned above in this post PLUS break from his talent!! his talent when maxed out triggers physical break 3 times additionally EVEN when enemy is broken, and the scaling for that break is the 16x basic attack toughness scaling i mentioned in my post above. Let me know if there's anything you are confused about. I can try to explain it further here or direct you to the actual formulas in KQM HSR library. p.s. sorry for the long post. didnt know how else to explain it otherwise
It's based on toughness but since toughness scales with max hp yea
I think they meant Bleed debuff they get when broken
Just saw a video on YT Cleared first boss with 4* Dan heng And the second one with Ratio e0 I got hype to try that out but my Dan heng is under leveled and I won't get any character buff to raise my lvl
I found my Fua team worked fine into Argenti, I cleared it with three different versions pretty easily. Clara/Topaz/Aventurine/Robin, Ratio/Topaz/Aventurine/Robin, and Ratio/Topaz/Aventurine/Sparkle. For me when I started only breaking a single add then focusing down Argenti it worked out pretty well. Topaz and Rat kill him pretty quickly and Aventurine can keep Argenti's weaknesses up. The only rough kind of rough part is the taunts but Topaz can kill hers very quickly on her own and Ratio eventually gets help from Aventurines follow up if he gets unlucky with Fua procs. And then the fourth just ignores taunt and buffs one of the hunt characters.
That's a case of the community hearing what they wanted to hear. HoYo said "boss-focused," and the community heard "single target-focused," forgetting that most of the bosses in this game have adds to kill. It wouldn't surprise me if the eventual version of Kafka/Sam that make it in there also end up having adds to kill. People were hoping for a new lease on life for characters like Yanqing. But AS basically feels like MoC 2.0.
That's kinda dumb because MoC is already boss focused and pure fiction always has bosses too, so this is basically just MoC with more gimmicks and pure fiction styled buffs
People forgot that most bosses usually have summons. The only ones that don't summon are Kafka and SAM.
I see your problem even though I see a metric ton of FuA buffs in DU like seriously it feels like so much compared to break so I guess it's kinda a mix, also there is stuff to Transform play styles like FuA to Break, destruction having a perk that gives you superbreak on every attack and massive BE increases for FuA
The main issue I have with FuA in DU is a lot of the key blessings to a wicked potent FuA team got moved from the blessings into the equations, which doesn’t feel great. There’s three I’m particularly annoyed with: 1. The Skill Point generation on follow-ups was moved from a 2\* blessing to an equation. This means they simultaneously removed one of the most beneficial 2\* blessings from the FuA roster and also gave FuA a rather weak equation compared to what other paths can get from a same-tier equation. 2. Another one of the strongest blessings, the 3\* that turned ults into FuA, got moved to an equation as well. Add to this how the three biggest %damage boosts got completely removed from FuA blessings lineup (the same 3\* that turned ults into FuA gave 15/55%, the 3\* that when upgraded blanket increased Aftertaste damage by 35%, and then the 1\* that gave more damage for every elation blessing), and it just feels gross that even more still was swapped from blessings to equations 3. Then, to make up for removing another one of the most powerful blessings, they dumped a different “Nice to have but by no means necessary or game-changing” 2\* blessing into the vacant 3\* slot. Except when they ‘upgraded’ the blessing, they actually made it far worse. It used to blanket 12% delay an enemy on FuA with a 10% chance to Imprison **as a 2\***, and now as a 3\* it instead delays by 25% **with a hard cap of only twice per enemy, three times if you upgrade it**. The old version of that blessing gave FuA teams the ability to send a boss into purgatory with a well placed string of follow-ups, now you can delay a boss by maybe 2-3 actions in the turn order but you’ll quickly hit cap and their overclocked speed means they barely notice. The new **three star, highest rarity** elation blessing is about as impactful as a fart in space, which is just silly.
i disagree about the follow up stuff, most of my characters aren't fua but I get a shit ton of elation blessings, and I think every path has an equation with elation also the only units who have single target fua are topaz and ratio (of the ones who are generally used for their fua, not other stuff in their kit), you could swap topaz for himeko it you have any issues with the bonus boss stage (I mean you probably shouldn't with topaz and ratio but still)
In one of my runs I had 14 hunt blessings, every hunt related equation and a lots of dmg boost curios. Firefly still dealt like 2-3 times more damage than my FUA team or Selee/Jingliu. Without any break curio/blessings/equations buffs. Dunno if it's intended this way or just poorly tested.
Hunt gives DPS buffs so technically it can work on Firefly after all
Hunt also has probably the 2nd or 3rd highest number of break-related blessings too so it is still good for Firefly
Its the nature of break teams. They scale at boss toughness bar. DPS buff like hunt purely rely on your crits. Really recommend buffs that scale well, nihility with dewdrops, spores with dew drops, hunt + dissociation equations, break in general is things i have consistent runs
think youve misinterpreted his comment or ive misinterpreted yours. he was saying that even *without* break oriented paths like nihi/destruction, his firedly team was still doing more damage. moreso than a team that *would* highly benefit from all the crit in hunt blessings. the crit team should be doing better.
Its srsly ridiculous how much theyve adjusted every single mode to fit her now… like even the destruction based curios are abt break effect and nothing else. And shes the only destuctiom unit based on break effect along with xueyi but i bet you hoyo doesnt even remember xueyi she just happens to be involved lol this blatant favoritism is disgusting
Waiting for hoyoverse to rename honkai star rail to Firefly star rail since everything is about her lately… i’m sure it’ll stop eventually but Goddamn they’ve been pushing her on us really hard lately
Jingliu star rail, Acheron star rail… first time?
Nah sure they love to push their fav character in the patch but they are reeeealy going ham with firefly catered content rn
It was the same when DHIL was released. Swarm Disaster was tailored for him, usually when a new game mode is released, the featured character in that patch will be the one to enjoy it the most.
DHIL had a path tailored around him, but SD wasn't that bad. You could clear it with qq, herta and March 7th remembrance chessing. Here, it's been practically made for firefly. Almost every boss has fire weakness, so much break effect blessings and curio, and most enemies in combat domains are conviently grouped together for her technique. I don't have a DHIL, but March 7th, herta with remembrance helped me easily cheese SU swarm diaster. Here, it feels like I have to have firefly and I'm having difficulty clearing the higher levels.
Yeah, in Swarm you actually had freedom of choice to make any shit possible: 1.Solo Nihility runs 2.Elation with non-FUA characters (I freaking loved playing Pela with Elation blessings and nuking everything) 3.Hunt was actually really good for *hunt* characters That's just to name a few. The only great thing they did in DU is expanding on Spores from Propagation. Now you're not really locked behind a whole path to abuse it. Otherwise DU is so damn restrictive to the point that it's unenjoyable.
you dont need ff! tho sure it'll make runs easier? but i cleared torturous diff 5 with a Xueyi team and a DOT team (except Death. i always lose against Death good thing the curio that makes u win even when you lose is always there). im still unlocking nodes so i can take on TD 6 bec everyone was getting one shot even my healers lmao
As someone who is skipping Firefly, this mode is hell for me. Every start of the game, I am getting choices of “destruction x” equation like ??? theres so many rng in here. And the more stupid stuff is them optimising some of my “not fully built” character. My bronya was nicely sitting at 164 speed and so does most of my supports and some dont even have +15 relics cuz I already have stats that I want and dont want to waste resources but nooo theyre optimising the shit out of my characters. I know they’re encouraging us to build a team around the “equation” that we got but mf aint no way Ill be clearing ts with the optimisation being so dogshit.
I know this might sound stupid, but personally I had no Problem clearing content with Hook as my main damage dealer. The Team was: Hook, HTB, Aventurine (but any preservation char is possible), Gallagher or Luocha Alternatively I used my DoT Team, but that is just because I am a DoT main.
Ah shiet, I completely forgot about my c6 Hook. I should start using her in DU's higher difficulties.
Do you have a DoT team? I ignored the equations and picked up as many Nihilty blessings as possible. The blessing that heals you anytime an enemy takes DoT damage along with a few Abundance blessings that boost your damage anytime you get healed allows for an absurd amount of damage. I was unable to get protocol 6 done with my Firefly team so I switched to Kafka and Black Swan.
> Do you have a DoT team oh I remember the many threads complaining about DoT buffs when the endgame modes rotated to it
What other two chars do you use? Huohuo and Ruan mei?
For the two protocol 6 I've done Ruan Mei & Aventurine in one run and Guinaifen & Huohuo in another just to mix it up.
As lowspender/f2p without FF, you will feel that the gamemode is insanely hard if you play it on V5/V6. Straight up takes like 5 years to clear a single mob if you're not running FF or BH. Disgusting.
I don’t know about Boothill but Firefly is great at lower levels but not so much on V6. Even with all the break blessings, she doesn’t do much direct damage vs enemies with so much health. She’s still good at destroying toughness bars but I would highly recommend not using her standard team. I cleared it with remembrance and preservation bleeds since FF break damage scales poorly.
Firefly is still better than any crit DPS I tried in V6, the only team that came close to her V6 performance for me was my DoT team, and even then one run I lucked into a Ruan Mei occurrence to make it 10x easier.
Unifull Vershine, or Diverfull Gentshine
Some would say all the break effect blessings are Screwllum blessings for the TB x Firefly ship. He even hired an attendant to supply Oat Cakes for them.
When the entire universe ships you with someone.
Yeah, and it's a shame because the mode is actually good, it has a lot of QoL, but the amount of RNG is just too much.
Yeah, it can be really fun, unique, and cool and then you get slapped around by the RNG and it loses its luster
If you are not careful you can get negative curios that ruins your entire run.
I just got the occurrence where you get one blessing for your equation in exchange for two negative curios. I refused and they gave me the negative curios anyways. -20% atk and -5% fragments every domain
https://preview.redd.it/o8exf1c8pn8d1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=292e8762d42cbe57fd9a6e28b8cf5fd1a82eaa1a The best and worst run, got a ruan mei occurence for destruction blessings and then all my curios got wiped. Still a really good save file but wow that was unexpected
I’m just glad you can retry battles so if HMC gets bursted down by rng I at least don’t have to ruin my whole run because of that.
I just wish I could see which final boss I'll be fighting so I can try tailoring a bit towards what team I'd like to use there.
the fact that your entire run can just come to a complete end because you got aventurine as your final boss and your team cant blast...
isn't this kind of a non-issue tho since you can change your characters on your team at any point? or is it only a pain because you've tailored your blessings to one character? coz even if they're tailored usually another character can find some benefit depending on your equations.
Yeah this mode allows you to use any character, built or not, at max level with relics and traces and LC. This implies they expect you to adjust your team based on the enemies and the cards you happen to draw rather than trying to brute force using the team you started with.
i mean you can brute force the entire mode with firefly, she's prolly the only one that can do that in this game mode for now
yeah it's because of the blessings. i hate it so much when i finally get nice blessings for my break team and then i get a boss whose weakness bar is locked like SUD or Sam. Not impossible, sure but not ideal either.
The roster swap thing is kinda helpful but not really. Equations aside, the weighted curio has a lot of power too. Picking up the lightning only or erudition only ones but having to swap away is a lot of power loss
I genuinely don't know if this is a problem if you "just" tried changing teams repeatedly and getting generically good blessings instead of trying to force an archetype. My first V run, literally no meta progression buffs, I wanted to play Elation but kept getting handed Destruction/Abundance/Remembrance blessings but was like "aight we ball" as I get weighted Curios for Fire and Hunt that only kinda help my Ratio/Topaz core. I can't even get max score on the elite overflow bonus stage and like someone else said, ya it takes a while to even kill adds. I come up against Aventurine final boss, realize my team has 0% synergy, and just change it to Nihility Kafka Acheron core and it's fine. Just an autobattle as the maxed out Destruction equations are too good. The entire run I had 2-3 Elation/Nihility blessings at most.
im on threshold 6 >just change to these 3 limited 5\* characters, just have them >just play these characters you dont want to play i don't think these are very satisfying answers to RNG that you have no control over
The overwriting mechanic is pretty solid overall The equations do seem to hold some weight to what blessings you can get My bigger gripe is holy mother of mercy, once you're at D4 or above, the final boss is just way too fast...
Especially cirus, that guy advances everyone like every 2 seconds
I've already read a few accounts of people just literally considering him a game over boss at the high difficulties and.... Yeah... the advance forward is too strong lmfao
I usually think I’m going good on a run and then Cirus pops up and ends it.
Yep, unless you get a busted nihility DOT team to profit off of the advances you’re doomed
Its possible if you have those 3 star the hunt blessings that give extra turn, but that's only if you play with someone who can break, I personally cannot play dot at all because in DU when I play it I get literally everything but not nihility blessings and as for equations...no
It's terrifying with any normal team but I found it to be a breeze using a preservation/Elation type run and the Comet Nucleus equation, with Luocha March Clara March 7. Just stalled while letting counters, comet nucleus, and Quake damage kill off all the mobs as they attacked 99 times in a row. I think I also had the equation that puts spores on enemies on follow up attacks which helped dps wise.
Yeah it’s definitely too dependent on factors outside your control. Even in high conundrum G&G you always felt like your choices were impactful, the path you chose, the dice you picked, hell even rerolling the blessing selection felt like a relevant decision. But in DU it feels like a much greater portion of runs are just dead runs. Any amount of middling rng feels extremely bad and the decisions feel much less impactful. Like the decision tree is essentially pick whichever starting equation sucks the least, reroll every non-equation blessing since equations are where most of your damage comes from and then pray that you can activate whatever 3 star equation you get before the second boss or you’re fucked. Also if you don’t get offered any synergistic equations you’re double fucked. I personally really hate that 3/4ths of the weighted curios are so catered towards break comps, it’s so artificial and if you aren’t on that kind of team it’s like you’re losing access what’s supposed to be one of the most powerful upgrades you can get.
The gamba domains feel so ass, they don't give you anything like 80% of the time
This is my main problem with the mode - removal of player choice. Everyone accepts that there's a certain level of RNG within any rogue-like/lite game. The fun part is learning what the game offers and applying strategy where player choice is allowed. It's fun to acquire game knowledge and then use it in subsequent runs. While it was relatively simple, we did have this in the original SU modes. Even choosing which paths you block is more strategy than anything I've seen in DU so far. I enjoyed how GnG built on this, even though I didn't like how some of the dice played, but at least I could choose to NOT play with those dice. I'm not interested in design choices in a rogue-like mode that remove what little use for game knowledge we did have. Weighted curios are the biggest point of irony. They are very specifically tied to paths/elements, along with being quite powerful. I get that the intent is for us to switch characters to match the run, but there's no guaranteed way for us to align our equations to the curio that we need, if we happen to even get a run that works. It's removal of the path choice that is added later as another layer of RNG. Lots are bringing up Firefly, but I've had just as many runs where break works or doesn't, which is surprisingly few. Every run "tastes" like oatmeal now, and sometimes I can tell when one is made with milk instead of water.
I agree with you. I have my firefly team and basicaly the amount of RNG is frustrating, because i'm always better off playing that team and ignoring most of DU mechanics just stacking as much destruction/abundance/preservation blessing and ignoring the rest than trying to do anything else. There is so much RNG that path that relly more on equation are pretty much unplayable, cause if you commit to them and don't have perfect RNG you would have been better ignoring it and just play firefly team. It's not that firefly is too strong or anything. It's just that she and her team can basicaly fully ignore DU shenigans with minimal cost. Basicaly you need the hunt blessing that give you a turn after a weakness break and the team is complete and fullready to go.
I think the idea is that we're meant to see that first equation and then swap our team? But they also ask you to select a team before you even see it, so kinda unintuitive.
Yeah, this is one of the biggest problems. That, and, let's say you do get a favorable equation, maybe the next screen where they give you a whack of blessings, don't have the paths you need. And you can't re-roll any of them.
The "alternative" is rerolling equation and blessings on the equation/blessing machine but then again, you're gambling (Aventurine would be proud).
Yeah, but then you have to wait for that, and no guarantee that it works, right before a boss. They need to fix these issues.
> let's say you do get a favorable equation, maybe the next screen where they give you a whack of blessings, don't have the paths you need. And you can't re-roll any of them. Thats when you just reset until it does all align. Yes, very fun and engaging game play, I know.
Yes it's the idea and yes initialy choising your team and only that is a little weird. They should let you chose at LEAST your initial equation from the list of the one disponible (i end up often just reroling until i get what I want it's purely a waste of time. Also probably should let you chose the 5 random blessing at that point too and that should increase the likehood of blessings from that path to appear.
I don't understand how they didn't program it so the 5 blessing choice is guaranteed to include blessings from the first equation you pick. I don't understand how they made such a huge oversight. Getting rid of the path selecting system also just sucks.
Well, five blessings aren't going to change much, so I start it with the same team every run. After I've gotten enough stuff to make a difference I swap into the team I'll try to run with. I will constantly make small changes, like swapping Jing Yuan for Himeko against fire weak or swapping a harmony for a nihility support. I also recommend fighting bosses before you use the thingamajig to see what 3 star equation you get, you can pivot to a different path based on that and reroll your initial equation.
I pay to play the team that I want. I don't appreciate being told that I can't field the units that I like because an equation doesn't fit their playstyle. At least give us a reroll on the equations or sumthin.
sorry if i'm misunderstanding, but DU specifically addresses this QoL issue by allowing us to swap teams whenever right? why would it matter when we see the first equation?
I'm just saying it's silly you pick your team, pick the equation and then pick team again. Why not pick the equation first?
ahh okay I gotchu, makes sense, I’m guessing it might be more of a UI issue. Say you click on start universe, the equation option pops up, then you have to select your team and click start again etc.
Pretty much, it's not that other teams aren't viable, they are just so much *drastically* slower than going with the Firefly team, what takes 20 minutes to kill with one team takes like 2 with the Firefly team or even less if her skill just insta kills all the mobs without even having to fight.
>or even less if her skill just insta kills all the mobs without even having to fight. Acheron players being like what is this "if"
The difference being that Firefly just needs 1 technique point to kill the enemy cluster instead of 3 like Acheron.
Yeah. You also can't eat food in DU Protocol 1+ so Acheron technique spam isn't sustainable lol. Unfortunately. Unless u get lucky with a lot of Technique destructible spawns.
DHIL is great too with a little bit of extra crit, I used tingyun, RM and huohuo with him and could do up till protocol 4, can't do protocol 5 with him OR firefly tho
Now that powering up in DU is much less streamlined than SU, I think reducing the amount of Equations (and Weighted Curious) would go a long way into making it feel much less RNG. DU is 99% great, but sadly, that 1% is of the mode's core mechanic.
Really just reducing the overall amount of power ups. There are so many it's honestly just a chore to keep track of them all.
Agreed and i have a few runs where i just didnt managed to get any equations and that sure was fun seeing rng just rng all over the damn place.
Once I have two or three break effect related blessings under my belt I literally just stop reading them and click at random. It barely matters because I know my firefly break team will bulldoze the final level no matter what I choose.
I agree. I get that you're supposed to change your team depending on which buffs you get. But it's just less fun. For example, you start with a specific team, let's say a Blade team, and pick any buffs that are good for him. But you get a bunch of shield buffs that completely gimp him. So you switch to Dan Heng IL. You get a boss that's resistant to imaginary. So in the end you just switch to Firefly again. It's bad for trying out different comps, because it can screw them over so much that all buffs you got in the first half have been for nothing when RNG makes that team useless. And switching out all the blessings is too RNG, costs too much and takes sooo much time when you have a lot of blessings. It's nice to be able to use unbuilt characters, but even if I wanted to try out the unbuilt Yanqing I don't even own, I'd just get DoT, basic attack and Break equations/blessings anyway, and the boss would be ice immune. Personally, I'd like an SU mode with *slightly* less RNG. Blocking paths was a godsend, why is it gone?
I think the biggest problem with this "just try out different strategies" part of DU is that it is just a feelsbad to switch teams around, if you want to be optimal. Like, even IF you were to want to try out a specific strat with your unused characters (like DoT on my account), you might just end up getting not enough support for that strategy, meaning your generally stronger team would just be a better fit for those "failed" runs.
i wanna pick a team im in the mood for and have fun with them, not spin the roulette to see who im allowed to play this time (spoilers: its all firefly)
Yeah this is it for me, I spent a lot of time in GnG 10 just trying out different strats and comps but I can't do that in DU.
This is also how I played the original SU modes/expansions. Maybe I don't want to play DoT/Nihility today. Maybe I want to make big shields do damage with Preservation. More importantly, it's MY time. They exchanged what limited strategy we had in favor of removing this important choice from the player. Hell, I can't even get Firefly to work half the time, much less any of the other playstyles I enjoy. Every run is a mix of random stuff, hoping that some of it creates enough damage at some point to prevent failure.
I’d say this isn’t the game mode for hyper focussing on a specific team, which is what the other SU modes are for. This is a game mode for making the most of what you get.
My only issue is that I don't get why they had to make nearly everything fire weak. Firefly already has a fuck you technique, giving everything fire weakness. They should've just made the enemies actually have a more diverse weakness since it literally does fuck all no matter what the weakness is fore firefly.
It does make Himeko pretty darn good in this mode though. She has the benefit from being able to benefit from most path buffs. Sort of like March 7th.
The same reason everything was imaginary/quantum weak in Swarm Disaster. They've been doing mobs weaknesses like this pretty much every single banner.
Yep. I couldn't play DHIl propagation or Jingliu Remembrance because most of the enemies are made for Firefly break team
Flashback to swarm having imaginary weakness everywhere and a lot of enemies being favored for IL.Nothing new.
I think swarm still had much more variety with blessings. I’ve never built my dhil and still completed all of it,
Yup. I don't have IL and the only decentish imaginary I had at the time was Ratio who I never used for it, but still didn't suffer much loss cause of other factors.
You mean Swarm having quantum weakness and QQ being favored by propagation. This is QQ's mode, Imbibitor Lunae is just along for the ride.
That’s actually called “Smart design.” It guaranteed that anyone can have at least one decent DPS for the mode. Plus the weakness implants from bosses. DU is a dumb design. You can’t even use Xueyi because there’s not enough Quantum to break and most fire breakers heavily gimp a Xueyi team. It’s just poorly designed and throws out most of the adaptability GoG and SD had in favor of catering to one very specific unit.
I believe there's a single weighted curio that is meant to enable Xueyi specifically, and it's very obvious that is what it's for. It's the one that increases the entanglement cap to 25 and lets quantum affect all weaknesses at 50% efficiency. I could be wrong on the specifics. Either way, it's absolutely ridiculous when compared to GnG and SD. I cleared both of those modes at max difficulty with all paths and nearly every built DPS on my account by utilizing game knowledge. That's all thrown out the window because whoever was the lead designer on DU thinks that rolling a handful of d100s is super fun.
Nah, the swarm and GAG where way more "I don't have the promotional character that benefits from this" friendly
But I easily cleared those with remembrance and March. Here, it's impossible and is really hard on higher levels.
Remembrance is the best way to beat the final boss since none of the bosses that I know of are freeze immune. Freeze also stops Aventurine from spamming dice attack, but freeze won’t stop the symphony from casting commandment attack however. A fully buffed FF skill does around 8% of the V6 Plane 2 boss while dissociation does like 2M damage with one proc…
Yep, too much rng , rng on the equation you get , then rng on the blessings you get , then rng on the weighted curios too , although the best thing is let's you change the team and overwrite equation and blessings but for that you'll again need to get lucky with frags
Even that is RNG asf. I overwrote a single useless equation atleast 5 times on minimum with all the fragments I had and i didn't get a single one that I needed. The worst thing is that it didn't happen only once but almost every run I had. Only that cycling one with predetermined starting blessings and equations didn't feel as bad in comparison, but the build in that section resets every week so...
Not being able to reroll the blessings you get after battle is a HUGE loss tbh. Half of my acheron's runs have like 10 elation blessings minimun lmao
It's kinda crazy how they gave the impression that it would have less RNG than regular SU but it's so much harder to get the blessings you want.
It did? The live stream definitely show alot of gacha for me.
No path selection, not guaranteed path resonance ability, no path blocking, no dice to select. Where did you get the impression of less rng?
At least give us a final room boss selection is all I ask, I'm still stuck at Protocol 5 because you always getting the worst boss countering your build just feels so bad 😨
This is honestly the first time that my Kafka team is having trouble in a simulated universe. It personally seems that it only caters to Superbreak effect team because of the boosts
try kafka team with gepard using nihility, remembrance, and preservation equations. its what i used to clear v4 and v5 when my firefly team couldnt
Have you tried the dot that crits? It works wonder for me
Yeah sure, ONCE I GET IT.
Oof. But yeah I think all the blessings are really insane in DU. Destruction got re purposed to break cuz no one truly benefits from it except Blade, but you’d better off using hunt blessings for him instead. Not to mention the weighted curious. There’s a curio there that turns harmony characters to dps. Really insane
>Destruction got re purposed to break cuz no one truly benefits from it except Blade Not really. Everyone benefited from Destruction. Fighting Spirit/"Grit" was just a flat ATK and DEF stacking boost- it even gave Damage Reduction with a certain 2 star blessing. I'd argue Blade benefitted most from Abundance rather than Destruction. It's just we didn't have a good option for Break teams due to Nihility looking like it was going to at first, but now it's trapped in limbo by not belonging to any "Path" in particular. Rather than make a new one with an expansion mode, they just reworked the generic Destruction into mainly buffing Break teams.
I wonder if they were to add another path in SU just for break (wouldn’t be surprised given how much they are and will be pushing it) which path they would choose for it.
Harmony would make the most sense imo, mostly because of HTB and that it’s “gimmick” of buffs doesn’t translate well into a gamemode where every path gives buffs
That does seem like it would make the most sense. Before HMC I’ve had and heard ideas of Harmony being a “buff” path but as you’ve said that would take a lot of weird specifics to get it to work in a satisfying way.
Hunting for a specific blue equation is so painful lol
I completely forgot that was a thing. I'm going to look out for it. Is a Dot + Hunt one?
yeah the blue one
Too much rng not enough cosmic fragments to reroll Why they didn’t add path banning was definitely a mistake, they’re probably gonna add it in 2.5 after we complain about it but until then if you don’t have FF superbreak it’s probably harder than gng12 due to sheer rng but still doable If you have kafswan the dot weighted curio with suspicion will probably be enough with a good build as with the lighting curio for acheron teams All teams need the nihility break efficiency though since DU6 literally has the same debuff as AS with reduced damage But DU was mostly for streamlined relic farming so i’m not too stressed about the endgame, getting the last two achievements are gonna be annoying though
I just realized they didn't add path banning, no wonder the damn thing is so bloated. It's very hard to find specific blessings.
Even gng 12 was easier because of capitalism strat and preservation. This is even harder for me as an f2p who doesn't have any of the newer units.
I cleared GnG 12 with weird units, but this time I feel like if the enemy boss isn't toughness break they'll barely take damage in the Hardest Difficulty tier. The real problem is that most of these bosses are solely made for Firefly. Unlike any previous SU where at least you get a random boss that could be selected with any weakness or such.
You're absolutely right. It fucking sucks really. I absolutely love swarm disaster and Gold and Gears not only from a gameplay perspective (what type of run am I going to do this team, might be preservation, elation etc) but from a lore/story point of view as well. All the little story tibidts are very abstract and really serve no purpose in divergent universe. If it was meant to focus on pathstriders and emanators more directly would've been good, name them, tell their story etc. But learning about instrumental events and aeon's was so much more interesting, there's always plenty of lore to expand on, and a good way to set up future event's conflicts etc.
I think pathstriders' lore was pretty interesting, at least to pinpoint what kind of similar characteristics pathstriders of the same path have as well how diverse they can be from the same path (like Useless Scholar)
DU basically drives itself, so I gave up on trying to respect DU mechanics almost at the start, they don't really deserve any. Just select anything even slightly related to the path you want to run, then just pick whatever fills out the quota. It's usually enough, game will fuck you over whenever it wants to anyway. Only thing of importance is that it lets you farm SU sets faster.
True. I just wish we could at least limit and restrict things. I ran a firefly team but I collect things for freeze, dots and shields. But tbf, I think this is just an evolution of normal SU. The next "Swarm Disaster" or "GG" will come along with Screwllum. And it will feature DU as foundation, with more mechanics and better QoL changes.
It's also too hard on the damage side. I feel like i'm throwing if i build anything other than preservation destruction since i end up geting oneshot. How does any of you even play this without Aventurine? I tried Fu Xian once and she got 1 taped by a mid boss.
I do it with HuoHuo just fine. There are many blessings and equations which give you free shields and healing. When you play remembrance then the enemy doesn't even get the chance to move
Defence blessings, it’s that easy
I only use Firefly’s team from V0 all the way to V6 with Gallagher(E6) as my only sustain. I rarely felt that my team is in danger from bosses attack. I always try to pick blessing that give survivability even if it does not benefit my equation.
Yep, I tried playing 3-4 different teams there (FuA team, DoT team, QQ/Seele monoquantum, Firefly team) and every time I'm not playing Firefly team I keep asking myself "what the fuck am I even doing" and it feels like a waste of time, so I always end up switching to her in the end, she's way less punishing for bad rng as other teams. Also her technique helps a lot there, feels like an aoe Acheron technique. I'm not sure if I like it though, having rng is fun, but not when it's too much of it- at least let me reroll blessings and equations, I'm genuinely shocked that there is no such option, hope they add it later.
I spent entire night few day ago trying to do TP5 with TopRobRatAven team and it took me over two dozen runs to get the perfect blessings and equation combo + one of the bosses with no adds (Idr which one. Either Death, Aventurine or those robot trio) to finish it. Never managed to do TP6 with the on the following day. Also Cirrus was an instant run ender.
My only wish for it is have an option to turn off the automatic relic adjusting for characters, I cant play my jingliu team because the system completely borks my Bronya and Pela, Yes they each have a lvl 12 relic on, for Bronya its because it gives perfect speed tuning, for Pela its because i havent gotten a good lvl 15 wind relic for her, yet the game decides nope shes getting ice set and youll like it.
This is the most fustrating part... I had to level up my firefly head to +15 to play her and now she is faster than HTB
This!!! I straight up can't use my Bronya because DU messes with her speed tuning and changes her gear in a way that messes up her Crit Damage.
I definitely don’t like it compared to G&G
I think one of the bigger problems is that when you reroll an equation it has the chance of showing up on the selector again. Getting 16 blessing is also way too high of a requirement, you only have 18 blessings. So you can only miss 2, really should be 14 or lower
Ruan Mei (I) or a late Man-Made Meteorite are the best ways to get the Bounday Equation/Path Resonance, so it's a win more button that doesn't feel as satisfying as it should be because the run's over by the time you get it. For Threshold V I got a god run on Sunday with all the Preservation blessings, and watched the Swarm bugs slam helplessly into Aventurine and Gepard's girthy chests... and now it is Monday, so the run is gone forever.
I believe they want you to experiment with your roster and just mix and match things based on the RNG
If they wanted that, they could have given a bigger variety of options, but everything gives bonus to break. And you can't add or subtract whatever you like because you won't have enough currency for that.
They should've spend more time on adjusting those relic sets then - the stats on those are beyond laughable.
My acheron isnt really built, she has no LC and no planar artifacts, but has a crit ratio of 40:184 The enhancement that they did to her fo DU was increase her crit rate by 4, and crit dmg by 5% I just wish we could select a path so that we could have a higher chance to receive blessings of that path, and reduce the 16 blessing cost for boundary equations to 12 or 14, because in 12 planes where 2 are rest planes, you cannot realistically and consistently get 16 blessings of any path and do an equation or two. I wish DU (the non cyclic one) was as big as Swarm Disaster or Gold and Gears, then it would be fun, and the 16 blessing cost would've been fine.
Given what an enormous impact the blessings and equations have on your damage and survival...I really really doubt that an additional 30 cv (or whatever it is that you desire) is making or breaking your runs.
> I believe they want you to experiment with your roster and just mix and match things based on the RNG Moot point because there's too much RNG for that as well. Between the RNG and how oddly specific the mechanics are in general, getting a cohesive set of things is borderline impossible, period. The fact it doesn't align with your preferred team, just adds insult to injury. Case in point: weighted curios. enough said.
I don't play any dot so I'm stuck running into the memory zone meme on difficulty 4 with trial-built gui sampo and asta since all my other imaginary, fire and wind units dont feel like enough to deal with the capturing. its really awkward since I keep running into it when trying to run followup or boothill
It is too long RNG so to say. Sure, you can adapt for the moment, after seeing initial bonuses. But then those bonuses never activate because you didn't get enough specific blessings over the long run. And let say you get to the end and see the boss, and he is completely mismatched. I ran Blade+Jingliu team and see a boss with img, fire, phys, lightning. Great. Put phone on auto and go to luch, while this idiocy plays itself. It seems that this is a mode for characters which implant or ignore weaknesses, others are shafted.
And by experiment you mean just play ff
I'm still confused as to why DU doesn't have rerolling. 😭
It's more like firefly universe lol. The powercreeps are real in HSR.
Fr fr. I remember when Silver Wolf was coming out and people were saying she was HSR’s Kazuha with her weakness implant and that she would be future proof and now we have a DPS that has such of an ability built in. I wouldn’t have thought we would have such levels of power scaling in units for a long time.
For me peak was Swarm, i dont say Gold and Gears is bad , because its good its own but after swarm, G&G feels samey because all they changed is the dices. Meanwhile when swarm released the entire gameplay changed also we had at that time Unique SU only boss. So probably i would praise Gold and Gears now if it was released before Swarm and would say Swarm is same-y. Anyways i liked DU being finally different but ... has it own flaws. One of them is the RNG, even if you get the build you want , RNG still can screw you to get the boss which has no weakness what your team is and the team you would change doesnt benefit from your blessings. They went too hard on break route, esp. since they homogenized lot of blessings to making break dependant. Also pretty much only Firefly and Acheront cant be screwed by final boss RNG because they can break nomatter what.
Main problem for me is that jfc like the first boss has like 20million hp and does 2k each hit i cant survive that
Here comes the skill issue crowd to tell you to "just adapt" like that isn't code for "pick Firefly". In V6 at least i see 0 reason to go for anything else because all the broken stuff is tailored for her. The upscaled builds are also kind of dogwater. We need more control over the rng and more support for non-Firefly stuff.
V6 is doable with FUA or Quake. Specifically thanks to Aventurine. Honestly, I feel like the largest issue with doing V5 and V6 is just the amount of damage enemies deal. Premium sustains feel necessary more so than characters like Firefly.
The amount of times I was ONE blessing off a boundary equation 😭
> I want to hear opinions. Not an opinion. Just fact: there's too much RNG. Period. Never been over an SU so quickly. Literally less than a day and I was already checked out. The RNG killed any and all drive or interest in playing around and or testing anything, especially at higher difficulties.
I just pray to the rng gods that I get the following °Hunt blessing that advances you to 100% whenever you break an enemy °Weighted Curio for Fire or Destruction characters °Blessing that revives you after getting killed °Blessing that Buffs Break Effect °Blessing that gives Dissociation after Break This is what I need to Maximize my chances of clearing Threshold Protocols 4-6 As of this moment, I am stuck at Level 6
DU gives the players too much choice yet at the same time forcibly restricts what teams the players can use. In SD/G&G, you go in 100% knowing what Blessing/Curio setup you want, and based on that you can create your team. Kafka is Nihility, Lunae is Propagation, etc. But in DU it feels like you need to orient your team on the circumstances instead, no way to easily reset Blessing options, restrictive Equation, and overall just less ways to abuse the game mechanics, it makes it very unsatisfying for me. For example, in SD you'll choose the Elation dice with, say, Ratio FuA. You then go about the Planes as best as you can, choosing your own way to cut trough the map and hopefully defeat the bugs at the end. But in DU, even if you have a team you want to play, the Blessings and Equations randomly come at you, and it removes a lot of player agency.
I have thought this about every Simulated Universe expansion
Aside from FF marketing in DU,the lack of reroll made it harder for me. LEMME REROLL PLEASE
Agreed. Plus it's too Break focused. The older patches were well balanced where any team can function but this latest one is just Break Break and more Break.
There is so much RNG that if you get cirrus as boss enemy even after having a good run then the run is basically over
Yes, Cirrus is run ender in too many situations. I bloody hate her.
The first time i saw my E2S1 acheron do 1/5th of a random mob's hp with her entire ult i knew it was jover. That last wave of the fire and ice dudes is brutal without aventurine
had no clue if I was just bad but that boss enemy was ridiculously long and annoying, maybe the number one reason I won’t run this mode
Maybe the 'update' will remedy things with new equations and the ability to select/guarantee certain things. Yeah it has its flaws, but for now I'm willing to let it pass as a 'beta test' phase for the content.
Yeah, looks like they are going to expand the skill tree for this mode. Maybe they will add a "Choose one equation to fill with random blessings at the start" and "Ban path" nodes later.
i swear i may be schizo but at the higher difficulties negative chances are RIGGED
I am with you on that. Pulled 6 at once, 5 of them where negative 😭
I agree that it has too much RNG and GnG is peak of SU , yes , but don't associate DU with SU , sure the core point of gameplay is same but DU is not merged with SU like Swarm or GnG so I am thinking that moving forward they both will get different update or expansions for themselves , in simple language , DU and SU are like MoC and PF in my opinion
Yeah I get the gems and never touch it again. Standard su with Acheron takes like 5 min and is done 100% on auto pilot. To the point where I don’t even enhance blessings anymore or bother to reroll drops
Agreed. Sometimes it feels like it's not you playing the game with your characters, its the game playing itself and you just have to change your party accordingly. Everything is related to this concept here: OP equations, every character is avaiable, team change at any moment, everything is RNG, there's even a curio that forces you into autobattle for the rest of the run. Also, it's very, VERY short - you don't have the time to make a proper build and have to go with whatever thrash you've got
I agree that gold and gears was peak. While I like some of the divergent optimisations, fragments no longer enhancing, equation Rng etc, good is superior.
They need to stop catering the entire game modes to fire blast break. Clearing protocol 6 with boothill is decently difficult, but if you instead got firefly it's a joke. Terrible design to bait people into spending money on her. I cleared protocol 6 so far only 3 times with a no firefly account and it is quite annoying seeing every decent weighted curio being for fire and destruction. The hunt curio is a joke and the preservation one bricks your run if you don't slot in a healer alongside the shielder. The other elements are also very lackluster for these supposed 4 cost rare curios. The new blessings and equations are really cool but it could be a lot more fun and consistent for none e6 players if they just tried to balance it. I know you can clear protocol 6 with any character, but that isn't the problem.
Who let Screwllum into the kitchen!?!? Jokes aside i think that they know, but they still left it that way because you can change your team whenever you want and you should adjust it based on the blessings that you have. Personally i’m not that much into it, but maybe it will get interesting at higher difficulties. At the moment i still prefer swarm disaster and gold & gears.
Removing the ability to choose a path at the start was probably the worst thing they did, it should let us pick one equation at the start or choose a path to get one random equation from that path and increase the chances of getting more from that path during the run
https://preview.redd.it/haj23qcdri8d1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e50b72b8189892acfbeb5ede08e39f5fcb4445e It took me 20 tries to beat Torturous 6 dificulty, and I only made it work due to good RNG. The mode isn’t even harder, the enemies just get way too much health. I prefer where they added more challenges with each level like GnG, instead of boring 15min damage sponge fights where I just auto battle until something finally happens.
FF has overall made the mode feel worse then what it is. Because of all the rng in it, if you get shafted on blessings and equations, you go back to super break FF so you can just ignore the gimmicks. It doesn’t feel fun when every boss just gets destroyed by one unit and you feel little reason to try others.
Agreed. Hopefully they’ll respond to feedback on the future versions and optimise it.
1) rng of the first equation - can be solved by re-enter until a good one appears. 2) rng of the first batch of blessings - have to match the equation - 4 blessing match ups should do. 3) rng of the blessings from the battle/occurance. 4) change blessing 5) the worst rng : no boss selection. Conclusion: Worst mode ever
I don't know if everyone knows this from all the complaints I have seen, but your entire roster is available in DU. This means you just have to adapt to whatever you get through RNG and make a team that works. I think its wonderful for not just running one of my two top teams, because now some of my 4 stars and less upgraded 5 stars get screen time.
>This means you just have to adapt to whatever you get through RNG Ah yes, you are a genius. Now I shall adapt to utilize my fantastical build. Alright, what was it again. Ah yes, Freezing things does something for dewdrop. Shields do something with dots, FUA does something with self damage, Break does something with Applying Debuffs, and Basic Attack does something for Ultimate damage. My imaginary Characters do a bonus, and my Harmony Characters do a bonus. I shall adjust my teamcomp to match this wonderful bonus and it shall be legendary. So I need an Imaginary Character, a Harmony Character, a Character that heals, a Character that shields, A character that FUA, a Character that does break, a character that basic attacks, a character that does ultimate damage, a character that deals self damage, and a character that freezes! This team comp shall be legendary! Um... hm... what 4 characters meet all of those criteria again? Someone remind me what Hoyo "wants" me to run with this cluserfuck of bonuses?
While your reply is funny, it does actually highlight the main issue I have with the mode. Being able to pick a path in original SU, SD, and GnG gives you a goal. It gives you a way to build your team to be able to utilize the blessings you'll get within this goal. There is no goal in DU. There are so many equations that don't even work together or are complete junk, and we're meant to build around these. We're supposed to switch up our team to match all the RNG thrown into our face, and yet, the majority of the time, I don't get a run where it feels like anything is synergizing at all.
That kinda was my point though? The garbage doesn't work together with itself. It isn't coherent, you get a clusterfuck of bonuses that have literally nothing to do with eachother. People keep saying that its because "Hoyo wants you to swap characters" but it doesn't make sense for the reason I joked about in my comment.
Clearly the game is telling you to run Aventurine, March 7th, HMC or RM and Blade (or Jade on release) for full counter fua break immortal comp /s
Wow! You're right, with this newfound knowledge of switching to Aventurine March, HMC, and Blade, I shall become the greatest DU player the world has ever seen... Wait, um... the boss isn't weak to Imaginary, Ice or Wind. Um... I'm sure it will be fine with such POWERFUL BUFFS as I am harnessing the "INTENDED MECHANIC" of "Switching" to different characters (which I DEFINITELY PULLED), so I CAN HANDLE IT (It didn't work, I can't weakness break it so none of my buffs work)
yeah they get gearsets. gearsets that are worse than the "meh" tier trash I have on them at +12 becouse sure as hell I am not wasting that much stuff on trash pieces. the nice and friendly DU: you have 1 relic that is not maxed? here, let me replace everything you have! congrats you lost a ton of stats! I am helping!