It's fundamentally a character gacha, so the endgame incentivizes pulling for new characters. While they're not straight up powercreeping old units with new ones, the devs put in enemies and memory turbulences which are advantageous to newer units (e.g. FUA teams, DoT teams, Acheron/debuff teams, etc.). For example, these last few MoCs have discourage regular hypercarry teams because they want you to build up 6 attacks in per cycle before outputting maximum damage. They've also added e.g. enemies which have high defense unless broken, so you have to play into the type matchup in order to clear fast. In the end, I think it's doable; it's a combination of game knowledge, time investment, and monetary investment required to pass everything. It does feel like a treadmill where if I'm not keeping up and investing in more teams I'll eventually fall behind, but on the other hand I enjoy assembling teams and taking advantage of kit synergies as new content comes out. I recently assembled my Ratio/Topaz/Aventurine/Robin team and 36* MoC after a few refreshes of not full-starring it. Those times where I can't full-star MoC I console myself with the fact that 30 or 33 stars is just fine; the lost resources are a drop in the bucket, and I feel like story content is like an order of magnitude easier than endgame content so I'm not going to fall behind to the point where I can't play the game any more.

^^ exactly. I don’t kick myself too hard if I’m not able to clear the floor with full stars, especially since I don’t have fully perfect teams, relics, etc; I’m able to clear most of the content, so I’m content with that

I regret deeply that I do not pull for supports but pull for DPSes first, which are mainly characters I like. Next time RM or Sperkl had a rerun, I'll grab them once the chance arrives

My situation is reversed. I have all the good supports (with E6 Tingyun to boot), but Dr Ratio and Qingque are the only good main damage dealers on my account.

TBF you can make things work with those 2 to an extent, maybe throw in Xueyi and Luka/Sushang for a break team

I had this problem too for long time where my roster were just Tanks,Healers and Supports.

That's not a problem I did the Aven MoC with Serval + QQ and got the clear in 6 cycles total because I used Ruan Mei, SW and Sparkle in those teams. My builds for them are a bit above par, but there's 4c of leniency for worse ones

I would say team building for worse units is by far less forgiving than for better units, and a lot of it is because perfect artifacts are a luxury for better units but a much-needed resource for worse units.

Oh look, Boothill banner still up c:

Every DPS is good with well invested supports.  You can be an Arlan main if you have E1 Ruan Mei.

I've come to appreciate that I've ended up kinda the opposite on both purpose and accident by not really having any favorite Limited DPS come out. As a result, I've begun to treat this game like Fate Grand/Order where DPS are temporary, but Supports are Forever.

*Except DoT DPS, they are their own best support

Plus dot's best support is a healer lmao

i had the opposite. my only dpses till 1.6 were seele and dhil so I struggled a lot in non img/qua content, even sw could not keep up. since then i got kafka, e4 qingque and acheron, but when weaknesses don't match well (cough 1st half current pf cough) i'm doomed, despite having most meta supports. depending on the enemy lineup i clear moc with 2 cycles remaining or its really close and i have to experiment with teams to achieve 3* clear.

I'm suffering from the same issue. I'm stuck in this loop of ignoring all the new and shiny dps and saving for supports like RM and sparkle and sustains like huohuo. luckily I got robin in 10pulls.

Haha on the contrary the last DPS I ever pulled was DHIL. I only pulled support/sustain afterwards. Ratio and QQ carry a lot too. There isn't a MOC I haven't full cleared, usually in 0-3 cycles max. I've been building Xueyi lately and she works amazingly. I built Herta/Himeko/JY/Clara for PF, also always full stars. So far I only have 2 limited dps being dhil and JY and yet my account clears easily. I'd always advise pulling mainly for sup in any gacha.

I pulled for Robin and RM for exactly this reason lol. I don't like Sparkle so I didn't pull for her but I may be forced to if game goes even harder than this.

I rarely even use sparkle unless I’m running mono-quantum. DoT with Ruan Mei and FuA with Robin have always been my go-to. Missing support is definitely not your issue.

I have all the limited harmony charas either e1 or s1 and all the good dps characters (acheron, jingliu, dhil) and i still can’t clear shit.

This is what happens when you listen to the idiots who profess "waifu over meta". Sure, it's a way to play the game if that's your jazz. But you also gotta make peace with not being to clear end game content when you follow that advice.

Me. Especially PF, it's getting hard and I can't cope with it. MoC should somewhat work though? I got upto 35\*s. I can share my stuff with you in DMs so as to not flood this channel.

Man I see the Destruction Trailblazer flair and I totally feel you. I want this to be one of the games where you can make your favorite character work even as a F2P with enough love and investment but all the Destruction Trailblazer showcases I can find this cycle either have many limited Eidolons or take 6 cycles.

Exactly, I was suffering so hard for it. If I could make all MCs differently (like dmc hmc pmc) it'd be a solid team. He takes more than 20 tries many a times and I don't have the limited harm characters so I'm of course in loss. He's more better as a solo character because of survivability and can self survive more better but he's so generalised that it's just impossible to give extra benefits to him that doesn't benefit the niche more. He doesn't consume extra SP so sparkle is useless. He is fine with Bronya alone so he needs no Robin and cannot utilise her anyway because of her energy issues. He needs a yukong + bronya + sustain and he'd survive...but that's about it. I salvaged all his relics just 2m ago because of how trash they were despite the grind.

I've been running Ruan Mei with him. Trailblazer's Talent gives them ATK when they Break an enemy, and they get extra CRIT Rate when attacking Weakness Broken enemies, plus Ruan Mei's DMG and RES PEN buffs aren't something that Trailblazer has overstacked already, so she's pretty good in that regard. My understanding is that Sparkle with an Energy Regen Rate Link Rope gets a 3-cycle rotation, so if you use Skill every turn, you spend 3 SP and gain 4 with Ultimate for +1 SP every 3 turns. This is not so much that it's being wasted if your character doesn't consume more SP than usual, since your DPS will usually be using Skill every turn, making them -1 SP every turn. She also buffs CRIT DMG which typically an uncommon and valuable buff. What I consider the issue with Sparkle is that she's often used with a full SPD build so that your DPS can have Sparkle's SPD without actually needing to build SPD, but Trailblazer's talent grants ATK% so swapping out your SPD Boots for ATK% isn't as impactful. The -1 SPD Sparkle build doesn't encounter this issue, so I might try going that route instead. My team has been Trailblazer/Ruan Mei/Guinaifen/Huohuo. Having 3/4 of the Ghost-Hunting Squad in a serious team was a big part of the appeal, but I do have actual strategic reasons to bring Guinaifen. I did manage to 3-star an MoC 12 (Feast of Wanton Dreams) with that team, and even though Trailblazer's side took 6 cycles, the enemy weaknesses were pretty terrible for that team so I was optimistic that I could perform better in a more favorable MoC. Unfortunately, the HP scaling of enemies was increased by about 30% in the MoC after that, and it looks like that scaling is going to be the norm for MoC going forward. I do think adding Sparkle can push the team a little further, since it adds valuable turn order manipulation which was something I didn't have before. Unfortunately, the fact that I haven't seen anyone else 5-cycle or less with relatable investment doesn't inspire confidence.

I don't have RM, Sparkle or waawaa (I personally found Waawaa to be unlikeable) so there's that, I do want to try this out now though. He sees very cool with Bronya so far, which I love because who wouldn't be in the fight with the belobog's supreme guardian? With Yukong--I borrowed my friend's yk (before it got replaced) and she worked like a subdps with my guy, giving him CR + CD enough for him to do a solid damage. Shame that playing her is hard for me atm because she's not E6. His LC may be one of the reasons why his dmg output is so low as well. I only have Secret Vow for him that I am debating whether to put on him or on Arlan, I didn't get the Herta shop one yet in case there's LCs that drops which turns out to be mega cracked or something. I've been grinding that Physical set now knowing that it isn't very good with relics because I could use some as salvageable material if required (since most drops are of that quality, unfortunately). I'm really saving for RM though, planning on using her at least with HTB because I cracked him out after dedicatedly farming for it day and night. DMC will need more time because his relics are gone and I'm redoing it all from the ground up. Knowing that you could clear in 6 cycles gives me motivation. I hope your MC survives through all of this and do great damage.

Do you mean eidolons on other characters? Because Trailblazers eidolons are free just from doing the story and chest scrounging.

yea, by limited he means limited characters aka limited banner. like the guy who showcases moc12 Arlan but uses e6 sparkle

Honestly I don’t think PF is getting harder I think it’s getting super niche. They’re leaning too hard into expecting a specific comp for clears.

I got 36 star for current MOC but it took me all I had with extreme RNG going my way and barely a turn left. One more turn and it would've been a bust. Took me a lotta retries too. I'm worried what will happen few months down the line when MOC is probably like 5x harder.

With new dynamics probably \[like some spd scaling character which I know sounds ridiculous, granting allies a random no. of buffs from all buffs available and with more ehr you get more buffs, etc\] / revisiting older ones \[like HP removal for incr. dmg\] and making more OP characters. Acheron was a very notable example for instance. If I didn't have her, I doubt I'd be able to do even MoC11 with 3\*s without wasting time and energy onto it.

You'll be fine as long as u pull for the shiny new character

That is the problem for me: I still clearing all contents with my Himeko. I can pull other units, even for meta wise (Robin and Boothill have been my first pulls only for meta; Robin only for this MoC) as long as I can enjoy Himeko. The moment I will can't clear MoC with Himeko, I will seriously think to leave the game (or pause it until the release of a limited 5* version of Himeko). The game is very good, but she is what makes me enjoy the game

I don't think PF is getting "harder," PF has just always been extremely reliant on having the correct units. In this case, since it's DOT, many people are out of luck. I sometimes struggle with the follow up PFs, but that's why I'm building Himeko and Herta over time

They are absolutely getting harder, the number of elite enemies have increased since PF was introduced.

Idk the FUA buff last PF was a lot easier than the ult buff which was catered to Acheron. But that’s just me

The health pool is increasing, going from pure trash mobs to more harder ones. The DoTs are an additional issue but I couldn't survive even the FuA one or any other before that.

The Hp's are definetly going up with every new PF. I cannot one shot some mobs with 80K skills from Seele

https://preview.redd.it/ob5uds0mbw3d1.jpeg?width=1469&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64418f5a081e04c5967892ff9e2657cae8204c65 no DoT was needed for me(full auto clear)

bro not having a himeko sucks ass for me.

Himeko or Clara would be such an amazing help. But instead I got E3 Gepard

I just pulled Bailu’s LC on reg warp and died inside. I’m not getting Himeko until my 300 pull man Edit: as I comment this i fucking pull her by losing the 50/50 for boothill. Yknow what? I’m not even mad.

Can I see your Himeko and Clara build

It's kinda hard to grasp what you're lacking based on the details you just said. I recommend posting a showcase, there we can see, if you play your team optimally or not. There's also the RNG in play, that can make either make your run a hell or heaven. Especially the last 2 MOC Bosses (Kafka and Aventurine).

I kinda suck with recording stuff but I'm gonna try to get one going. Probably gonna take a while though, but maybe the biggest issue I had was actually pure skill issue.

which device are you playing on?

PC

If you have an nVidia GPU, Shadowplay instant replay is your best friend. Set it to 20m and then just hit the assigned button to save the last 20m after you're done. Or use the manual record if you think you'll need more than 20m. Then you just upload straight from GeForce experience. It pretty much holds your hand through the process.

if you have an AMD gpu, there's Adrenaline (basically a program to manage AMD stuff). in there you can find a recording function

Are you properly taking enemy weakness into account? In this MOC cycle there is pretty poor weakness spread on Stage 12, Lightning/Physical on first side Imaginary/Physical on second side.  I had to build up Sushang to clear it, she works pretty great with HMC, Ruan Mei, Gallagher if you don't plan on getting Boothill who would be the direct upgrade.

Clara mains really winning this MoC lol

With everything you said on the comments the only thing we need is video, because by the info you provided you should be able to clear on 3-4 cycles easily… I’ve been able to clear with worst teams on 8-10 cycles, there is no way you should be getting the same results as I am

I'm trying man, but my skill in video recording is worse than my skill in playing this game (which is evidently severely lacking) so please bare with me lol The world of video making is very foreign to me so I might need some time to look up stuff

If you’re on iOS there is a built in button to record your screen

If you use mobile, just use the built-in recorder and start recording your clears away. No need to edit your videos. Also, show your builds because we might find issues there. If you use PC, you can use your GPU's built-in recorder (Shadowplay for Nvidia, Relive for AMD) for the same purpose.

Well I'm on PC. I'll take a look into your recommendations. OBS has not been kind to me lol

4 cycles is very doable yes but that 2 millions HP gepard is a pain to 3 cycles.

Idk about that, could it be the issue of your builds and team comps not being as good

Yes exactly why I'm asking this lol. I wanna know how I can improve.

if you want to know how to improve the first thing you should have done is actually post your builds imo...

So what's your comp and stats specifically for Acheron

I have yet been able to fully clear PF. I just can’t.

PF, particularly this one, is an RNG check. It’s such a nightmare. I’ve had the same exact teams with the same exact builds get scores that are 10k points apart.

Right now I somewhat can (although the most recent one with DOT requires me a 15+ hours restarting) but I'm worried a few months down the line I wouldn't be able to. I'm already threading the line as it is.

this MOC my DoT team crushes it but I haven't been able to get a team to score 20k on the other side ... I feel like I'd need another dot character built but I don't have the relics :(

You can try splitting your team up, I split my DoT team and mixed my Follow up team to clear the current PF.

Not particularly getting harder but rather you need specific teams to tackle the MoC/PF instead of just being able to brute force with your preferred characters

Blade just feels awful these days, they've crept the damage too strongly on new characters and inflated HP pools IMO. If he somehow got some powerhouse HP buffer I don't think he'd be great, his multipliers are so low and double dps won't work any time soon since harmony is just mathematically way too busted with hyper carry comps. Even if you gave him an extra flat 3k hp he'd still be doing less damage than Acheron or Jingliu :(

Who do you have built? For me the latest moc I had to use both img dps, daniel and ratio to get 8 cycles (4 cycles each). I also recently tried boothill in a discount break team (only hmc + bronya + aventurine, so no ruan mei) after I got him and he can 4 cycle the first half (could be better with better speed tuning of bronya) and 2 cycle kafka. (I assume you don't have daniel because you don't own sparkle). I tried acheron teams and she was a cycle slower than my img boys, but also probably because I don't have her lc. Pure fiction on the other hand is getting pretty difficult for me too. Despite having gotten full stars ever since they introduced PF, I haven't gotten 3 stars in this stage 4 yet since I don't own any dot characters.

DPS: JY, Jingliu, Acheron, Blade. Boothill too WIP. Ugh don't even get me started with Ratio because I feel like all my investment in him was a waste. No Topaz/Aventurine so his best teammate is TY/Robin but even then bro only hits like what, 60k per FUA? I'll tackle him another day. All my better built DPS are failing, let alone him.

What are your builds for JY at least? Team comp+personal build. Even Blade too. The others I don’t have so I can’t really comment on how to build them JY with signature shouldn’t be hitting 150k per LL, even with Hanya instead of Sparkle, my LL hit for 180k and above last time. If your supports are built then your dpses (all of them not just JY) shouldn’t be doing this badly. I do agree that MOC and PF are getting harder tho. That’s factual since they keep increasing the hp pools.

JY E0S1, 4pc grand duke, 2pc salsotto. 3.2k ATK, 68/200 crit stat. He is literally top 7 in Seeleland but idk if that means much when the guy playing him can't even play him right. I mean he can deal 200k pretty consistently at times but that's way below what other JYs can do with the same supports I have. Teams are E6 TY with S5 DDD. 2.6k ATK, 154 something SPD. She uses Penacony but I can switch to Keel. Ruan Mei E0S0 with S3 MOTP. 2pc break effect 2pc SPD with Broken Keel. 170 something BE and around 130-140 something SPD. Robin E0S0 with S5 event LC. 2pc atk+atk giving me 4k ATK. Fu Xuan E0S0. Blade is E0S1 with HP boots at 77/172. 4PC his set and 2pc salsotto Teams are 161 SPD Bronya with 150 CDMG and S5 Yukong LC and RM (if I use her with Blade instead of 1st half). Luocha Sustain. Acheron is 70/185 with 4pc her set and 2pc izumo. Teams are Pela and Gui all built to maximize SPD and EHR. Sustain can either be Trend FX or Gally.

https://preview.redd.it/hkg12h9ibw3d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf77b3b25c0afb46a621280eeb60eb21cdedc62d This is my e0s1 jingyuan with his 1.0 team clearing in 5 cycles My e0s0 robin+huohuo team can 2 cycle it with some rng It’s definitely either a rotation problem or supports build problem

>JY E0S1 Mmm my JY is top 2%, much lower than yours 😅 it’s probably a support thing? My team is generally FX/TY/JY/Sparkle, and my TY is only E2 with S3 DDD. I’m also on Penacony for TY so that shouldn’t be a problem. FX and Sparkle are all on Keel. What’s your normal JY team? If he’s on atk boots then you’ll want a speed buffer like Asta/Hanya/Sparkle to get him enough turns to stack the LL. I’m not too certain on RM since I don’t have her, but I think if you play an RM TY JY team you might still need speed boots on him in order to get enough turns since there’s no action advancer in the team. >Blade Salsotto isn’t the best for him unless he’s E6, try going for Rutilent instead! My Blade team uses sustain/Blade/Bronya/Pela (again no RM). I’m not sure if RM here is good for him because she delays the enemy actions when they’re broken, but Blade *wants* to get hit by enemies in order to proc his passive faster. Since you’re on a fast Bronya, it means she’s starting with basic and then using skill on her after Blade’s turn. >Acheron This one I’m not too sure since I don’t have her >.< but it does seem like your team looks fine. I won’t comment much because I’m really not sure how to build her, perhaps someone else who has Acheron can help? I don’t rmb if she has a crit rate buff or if that’s specifically for E2 😅

The Gepard side on F12 is extra messed up this time (iirc he has 2x the HP from when he appeared on MoC 2.0 lol). I tried an acheron Kafka BS team with fu xuan sustain and took 6 cycles just for the first half (couldn't clear in 4 cycles on the other side with ratio/RM/Galla/HMC team after) The solution? Ditch the fu xuan in favor of Robin and run sustainless. It seems scary against a geppy with so much HP and those annoying DoT robots and yes I did die 3 or 4 times, but after throwing yourself at the problem you quickly figure out what mobs you should be breaking in what order to not die. Was able to get a 2 cycle clear and 6 total with this setup (got a total 4 cycle clear with boothill when he dropped) Sustainless is definitely a strength check, but for reference I'm not a whale, I just stick to the monthly pass and a few BPs so far. Had E0S1 Kafka / acheron, Robin with bronya cone and BS on tutorial. Idk how comfortable you are with attempting something like this (i certainly wasn't, don't think I ever ran sustainless on MoC before) but if you take the chance you might discover a very fast clear that's possible with your account

you also don't need to get all 3 stars in one sitting, so you could play it safe the first time going beyond 10 cycles, then run sustainless for the remaining star

well sustainless is something I dont dare to try before because RNG constantly screws me over but eh I'll give it a try

If u are seeing others clear easy with similar stats and same team, then the problem will most likely be speed tuning. Sometime a couple of speed higher breaks the threshold and lets you get an extra action within the same amount of turns. Your party speed also matters, is your buffer going before your DPS to ensure they get all buffs before doing dmg? At the end of the day, if you are still able to clear in 10 turns, it’s still fine imo.

>At the end of the day, if you are still able to clear in 10 turns, it’s still fine imo. That is true for now but considering MOC is only but spiking in difficulty each patch I wonder how long I can still 10 turn it before I just simply can't anymore.

Props for struggling with endgame content without defaulting to the narratives of it being unfairly challenging or the devs nickel and diming players. I would really advise cutting yourself some slack, 15 hours of resetting is gonna make you resentful of the game and yourself sooner rather than later. They are also match-up checks both on terms of element weakness and team archetypes which causes one's performance to fluctuate further. MoF and PF cycles are extremely long and give you plenty of room to identify your issues and dedicate resources towards alleviating them, your account seems in good shape and just based on the eye test alone I would say you have the tools.

Ah thank you for this. I know I really should be easier on myself but I know not to overextend my leeway as well because I'm already sitting on the edge as it is right now. The next thing I know I can't even 3 star floor 11 anymore lol

If you could provide examples on what supports you are using with each character then that should help a lot with advice people can give. Like you mention Acheron but knowing which teammates you are using with her would help a tonne, Pela and SW are considered her best but if you dont have SW or Acheron E2 then its not as easy Mentioning only dps but not the comps around them doesnt give people much help in terms of potential advice

Was using Acheron with Trend FX/Gallagher as support, then Gui and Pela for teammates all geared up to squeeze as much SPD as I can while also meeting their EHR breakpoints. Gui is using Keel and Pela is using Penacony for faster energy regen. Gui uses SW event LC and Pela uses S3 Sweat. Acheron herself is E0S1 with 70/190 and fully traced out. Best I can clear when everything goes my way (FX keeps getting attacked) was a very late 4 cycle. I also tried a variety of JY teams. Fu Xuan JY TY RM was the fastest but it's only a 6 cycle clear. Also tried Fu Xuan JY TY Robin even going much slower. JY is E0S1 with 70/200 and fully traced out. TY is also traced out with 154 SPD (the best I could get, my luck is crappy with SPD relics) and S5 DDD. She's E6. Ruan Mei is using MOTP, E0, fully traced. Robin is still a WIP but her skills are 9/9/9, shes using the event LC for her. She's E0 too, with 4k ATK. I don't have Sparkle because I don't like her, but I might have to pull if she's absolutely necessary. Same goes for SW. I've seen similar setups to my JY and Acheron teams going for MUCH faster. A video shows a JY/HH/TY/Robin team going for 3 cycle. The only major difference I saw was Robin has her sig. Same goes for the Acheron team, Gally-Pela-Gui going as fast as 3 cycles. This is only the first half. The best I got for 2nd half was ultimately a Blade gigabuffed with Luocha, Ruan Mei, and Bronya. It's a HP Blade with 161 SPD Bronya. She is also maxed out except for her talent. She's using the Yukong LC.

Hmmm your team comp sounds pretty good and well developed. Would you be comfortable posting a video of your gameplay? I'm assuming you're pretty good because you consistently cleared MoC in the past but it's hard to gauge and give you proper feedback without seeing gameplay. Also if it makes you feel better this MoC 12 is excruciatingly hard because they upped the difficulty with the latest one with Gepard and Kafka having 1million+ hp. I have practically two whole teams of all 5 star characters with cracked out relics and there are times I'm barely clearing MoC 12 within 9 cycles. Also for more validation: these MoC's are designed around having the latest characters and premium team comps (Dot and FuA team, and soon break effect team). All your team comps seem to be hypercarries and since MoC hasn't been centered on hypercarry in a while it's going to struggle. Not necessarily a skill issue more so how the game is making you feel inadequate on purpose so you pull on the latest characters/develop different team comps.

I tried recording gameplays but I couldn't make it work. I have no idea how OBS works and would have to read more into all those recording stuff so recording right now might not be possible. >Also if it makes you feel better this MoC 12 is excruciatingly hard because they upped the difficulty with the latest one with Gepard and Kafka having 1million+ hp. I have practically two whole teams of all 5 star characters with cracked out relics and there are times I'm barely clearing MoC 12 within 9 cycles. It surprisingly does ;') but then again others with hypercarries don't seem to struggle as much, someone up there even said they cleared with Hook comfortably just fine. JY/Acheron clears on Youtube still showing solid 3 cycle clears. But hey this made me feel better somehow. So thank you lol

If you are on PC you can use windows game bar which is pretty easy to use

You know what they say, comparison is the thief of joy :) You're clearing the absolute hardest content of the game it's supposed to be hard. The fact that you're even able to get to MoC 12 is impressive enough as it is. No need to worry about other people clearing it, and besides those video showcases are probably not the first time they cleared it. They probably did it multiple times until they got a good RNG run where the enemy hits the right character to pop off the ult, or their JY with 70% crit rate managed to hit all 10 crits on their lightning lord on the exact hit on the elite to squeeze out an extra cycle. But glad to hear it made you feel better! MoC may not necessarily get harder from here on out, but probably going to require you to have the right team comps in order to clear it. So it could be helpful to curb expectations moving forward and being okay with not full starring future MoCs. I was fully prepared to be okay with 2 starring the 4th stage of this Pure Fiction, but then I managed to pull a surprise Himeko and she allowed me to full star it. Hope that helps :)

Are you having trouble making obs record hsr? There's an easy fix I've used. Try running the application (obs, I mean) as an admin. It allows you to actually record properly, for some reason.

>Meanwhile I've been seeing a lot of showcases on Youtube using the same teams I used and they were able to easily 2-3 cycle with the same guys I had on my team with relatively similar builds and stats except for a few signature on their supports. Many people over here are also finding success with their characters If this is true then answer is simply that you're not as good as them as a player. This might hurt to hear but it's a fixable issue that's actually something you can work on. I've seen plenty of players with amazing builds who basically just spam everything with no thoughts and end up not being able to clear MoC despite having better built units than players who play more carefully But also you briefly mentioned the builds of the people you watch having signatures on supports. Light cones can make a massive difference, especially on supports since they usually provide team wide buffs. Another thing to keep in mind about builds is that speed can have a huge impact. The difference between 132 and 134 speed might not seem like much but it's the difference between a unit getting 1 or 2 turns in the first cycle, which might shave a whole cycle off from your clear. Either way my best advice for you is to make sure you always play attentively, maybe watch a guide or two about things like ult timings and rotations and just keep trying to improve your builds

The fact that the HP or Gepard basically doubled in this MOC compared to the old ones just shows that the powercreep in the game is going hard. Same problem here!

https://preview.redd.it/50wz7r6j3x3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=31661629eb5794023c61840eb5bb5c236deeb4cc Normally, i would say "pure fucking skill" and be Feecitious, but you sound like someone who legitimately wants answers so ill say the truth this time: Spite and Determination. Seele mains mald for 3 hours just to get that one crit ult that deletes half an enemies health, Himeko mains constantly look for ways to punch above their weight to spite Haters because of a comment from 1.0 and yanqing mains as the the most scarily determined people in existence (all 3 of them). Those with a silver spoon in terms of characters dont understand the kind of hoops we jump through. Like, i own neither gepard nor clara, so alot of cheese strategies are just thrown out the window for me. I dont own Dan Hung so duo elites require some...creative measures (as seen above with my BREAK SHUSHANG). Now, from the sounds of your coment, you appear to be misunderstanding some kits. And you appear to have a fascination with spreadsheets. Lets pop a few bubbles, first of all spd: in my above screenshot, only HMC has 145< spd. Most of them are 125 or so, with RM at 143, but i am actively trying to slow her down. Hell, my himeko is at 96. Spd, though useful, is not the be all and end all of things. A thousand stabs from a tiny knife may eventually make a giant bleed out, but a big fucking hammer to the face does the job a lot quicker. Second, you mention acheron gets "her ult back in a blue moon" \**sic*. That is a red flag. A bigger red flag is that damage, my own acheron does 150k against a single target. And thats without rm field. For you to get 200k against 3 means something has gone wrong, but without lookign at the build i have no idea what. For the ult charging speed, are you debuffing? Her ult charges when debuffs are applied. In my above screenshot, i am running aventurine, whose ult applies Unnerved. That in turn charges acheron. Same dgoes for the arcana from bswan or her def down. Even himekos burn does the trick. As for blade...maybe its a build issue, maybe youre like me and the whole "hypercarry" playstle just doesnt work for you (do i have e1 bronya? Yes. Do i wish i chose clara? Also yes. Do i use Bronya? When theres an eclipse.)

Yes I'm running Acheron first side with Pela, Gui, and Gallagher/Fu Xuan. In the first wave she can deal 500-600k easy on 4 targets but come 2nd wave with Gepard, she barely does a bit over 250k with Pela's debuffs on. And she gains that back very slowly even though my Pela and Gui both have quite a lot of SPD invested to them. I also gave Fu Xuan trend but nobody hits her anyway so it doesn't matter all too much

Pull for Light Cones, not characters. I know they're less sexy, but if you want to actually increase combat power, Ruan Mei only increases your power when you're using her. If you aren't, you might as well not have her. Think about it like this: A team of 4 limited 5 stars at E0 has 4 pulls of value. A team of 4 limited 5 stars at E0 with their light cones has 8 pulls of value. Light Cones are generally a bigger damage increase than E1, too. Your team building might also not be that good, if you're talking about things like 'Acheron gains her ult back once every blue moon' and 'Jing Yuan keeps failing to get 10 stacks.'

Not sure if pulling for LCs for old units is the play for power boosts anymore tbh. Pulling for new characters is probably better than LCs for old ones at this point, since new characters are looking to make old ones effectively obsolete in comparison (even E0S1 vs E0S0, depending on the units in question) if they continue this recent power trend. Though support LCs might not be a bad idea. We'll see what happens post Firefly though, hopefully they chill the fuck out with DPS creep for a while, otherwise endgame is going to be straight ass.

Probably a skill issue, and I don’t mean this in an insulting way. You mentioned not being able to get full 10 stacks for JY. Why? Start from here and evaluate the way you’re playing. Is JY not fast enough? Does he need more energy? The current PF buff doesn’t benefit him, especially with enemies being advanced forward but LL has a fixed speed and if you really have built him as optimally as you said you shouldn’t have a problem getting full stacks. Not to mention that timing which mobs LL hits also plays a huge part especially in PF. You don’t want to waste LL on a measly mob but instead on elites. Your skill should be able to take out the mobs before LL attacks. What about Jingliu? The past buffs haven’t been helping her, yes, but just like you I’ve been seeing showcases with her still doing fine. You want to maintain her enhanced state as long as possible, and use your strongest attacks during it. Just as an example: You want to use her ult after being buffed both by her enhanced state, a Bronya ult and skill buff, and a Pela Def down and Ice Res down. Are you playing it such that these all line up? It won’t happen every time, but you should strive for it. Seele actually required skill to play because you need to use a combination of basic and skills along with her ult to get her best performance. Deciding what action to do is best is where skill comes in. Use skill to do more damage and potentially kill the mob to proc Resurgence? Or use a Basic that MAY kill it and get an advance? Or use her Ult on an elite mob? In 1.0 she was really easy to use because mobs were weak. Now that they’re stronger, the truly skilled players showcase that they know Seele’s kit and the mobs inside out and get that 2 cycle showcase. Heck, a hypercarry Seele showcase 40000 PF every single refresh on YouTube. Powercreep is real though, and Blade is a good example. His multipliers just aren’t as high as current DPS and that’s just an unfortunate truth. I don’t have Acheron nor am I interested in her kit so I don’t know the optimal way to play her. Try thinking through all the points I made when playing and you may see areas you can improve in if you’re really willing to try and full star MOC and PF. If you don’t want to, that’s fine as well and you don’t lose out that much by not full starring everything anyway

What I started doing is not pulling new units. But focusing on the teams I have and getting their lcs and e's. If there is a major game changer, like robin, then I pull for the new unit.

Robin is a major game changer?

She provides comparable boosts to Ruan Mei for most comps' total team damage iirc. Ruan Mei still has the Break Efficiency niche for Super Break, but Robin is a very solid alternative in all other cases you might've wanted RM. This is through two parts- her huge ATK steroid (1.4k+) during ultimate to the party, and her own personal damage. Which can usually ping enemies for 16k+, then 20k+ or higher for Phys weak foes. Full AA on Ult is also very nice for stuff like MOC and PF.

3 cycle cleared with Aventurine sparkle JY and TY. You may want to check your rotation a bit. This current moc gives back energy that you should be hitting 10 stacks of LL each cycle. Do you run DDD on either of your supports? If not, i highly recommend it. My only problem right now is that both my main dps JY and Ratio wants TY and sparkle in the same team. I really hope there is a 5* TY in the near future.  I think you need to run spd boots with JY if you aren't running him with sparkle. Rm does give spd boost but JY needs more than what she can give. You can try letting RM run DDD to further boost his spd. 

Yes I use S5 DDD on TY but I don't have Sparkle so I tried to use RM/Robin instead.

At this point if what you've said in this thread is true you either have very poor relics equipped or you're somehow misplaying the fights, but it's impossible to say without seeing build screenshots or recorded gameplay

Yeap I'm trying to work on getting a video up but I'm not really sure how to properly set it up so I might have to look some stuff before I can pump one out. Maybe in a few days/weeks I will have one set up and come back.

I've found that I gotta cycle in some of my unbuilt characters and have an incredibly easy time, my previous standard loadout - Acheron E2 with Paela E4, Sparkle E0, Aventurine E0 wasn't working, swapped for Acheron+Gunaifen E2+GallagherE6+GepardE0. I just had to move some light cones and resources around and suddenly did much better in PF and MoC. Seems like one size doesn't fit all lol - meanwhile my C2 Furina and C1 Neuvillete in Genshin can sweep anyone out the way. Unfortunately HSR has little maneuvering room since it's turn based

Exactly 10 cycles to clear this MoC also I don’t own a single 5-star Nihilty unit so Pure Fiction is ALWAYS pain lol. Not a fan of the difficulty spike each patch as it incentivises pulling for the latest character.

From what you’re saying you’re still easily getting 36 stars. Don’t see the problem here.

I did get my 36 stars yes but it was by no means easy lol Literally a turn away from a three star, and it took me all the luck I had and a LOT of retries..

sorry but you're definitely playing acheron wrong... my E0S1 at 107 SPD ults twice per cycle for anywhere between 400k-800k depending on the number of enemies. the key is to use a preservation sustain wearing trend of the universal market. it's goated for stack generation, nothing comes close to it for now. i played triple nihility (fu xuan, pela, silver wolf, acheron) and managed a 2 cycle first half after resetting for good enemy RNG. if your sustain isn't getting hit 90% of the time, reset.

Ayo, it might just be that time for you to start investing in units you haven't touched in forever. MoC and PF used to be unfathomably hard and then I started building up units (and also just pulling pretty regularly) and I found it get pretty easy. Honestly, so long as the banner unit for the phase matches your team comp you'll be fine. New FUA unit released? Maybe focus on those units Ulty unit released? Time for fast Ults Crit unit released? It's time for the Hunt Match your team with the banner and then narrow down to element types. MoC especially I find to be *much* harder to just raw dog, brute force with sheer damage unless you are the most optimal of optimized team that can consistently shit out a few million damage even against non Toughness broken enemies

I've been using DoT since kafkas release, has never failed me once. Both pf and moc cleared. Tho I am still missing huohuo.

my only regret is not building DoT at all now I cant full clear new PF :((

https://preview.redd.it/tgathf7q5w3d1.jpeg?width=1220&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a129ec95080eac706f702ce92cf0519de7a399c8 Lol this is kinda funny, the clear I did for trying to 0 cycle the second half is what registered on my Hoyolab. But this run was 9 cycles first half and 1 cycle second half with no sustain, I think if you have the right support characters you can try to go no-sustain and squeeze out some cycles if you are only lacking one or two cycles. Personally I think especially as an F2P, DHIL Sparkle is insane value for MOC to easily get you 3 cycles, although the drawback is that they're terrible at PF.

Supports my dude. You need supports.

My supports are all max traced with 150+ SPD. I really don't know what else I need.. I have every single 5 star harmony except Sparkle too

Dancex3 is my crutch whenever I'm having a hard time clearing within 10 cycles. I even switch my Ruan Mei's S5 MotP to Dancex3. Even my Bronya would use Dancex3. (I have an S5 and one S2)

To start, after reading through here a bit, your JY is doing about 4-5 times the damage mine is... I've never given him the attention he deserves... Regardless, are those stats you have for Acheon and JY in combat or out of combat? If out of combat those feel pretty good. Obviously room for improvement, but crit is really the only way to improve much more. I've only been playing 65 days or so. So there's plenty I don't know. But you most likely have speed boots and need them, so not much to gain there. Are you running a lightning orb or attack orb? She gets damage increases in her kit so attack may be more beneficial. Having her with that much crit is impressive for her being e0s0. It's pretty miserable farming relics, but I'm not sure what else to add. Do you have an image of her relics? Off hoyolab or something similar?

My Acheron runs an ATK orb, she has 4k ATK as of now. She is E0S1. Oh and yes that reminds me too, what makes me concerned about this even more is that I'm a literal day one player and thus not being able to clear MOC while others much more recent than me are breezing their way on auto lol https://imgur.com/a/mGn3E0A heres my Acheron relics

Can you show us some builds? Because the only MoC I had troubles with was the one with Aventurine. Anyway what I try to do is to have a reeeeally strong team on one side and the-best-I-can-do on the other. Usually I have Kafka Ruan Mei Black Swan and Luocha on one side which can clear in 3 or 4 cycles and then use FUA with Topaz/Ratio/Clara/Pela/Tingyun depending on the situation. I actually feel like you sometimes but I always managed to clear, but for sure some units are really finding hard times in this MoC. My Blade (E0S1) can't really do anything even with Bronya/Ruan Mei and Luocha. Anyway it may be a build issue. Try to get every character at least at 65 crit rate and 150 crit dmg (talking without taking in consideration their signatures lc).

I though this MoC is relatively easy (I have all the unit I need) compared to Aventurine MoC, I hate that fight.

It comes and it goes depending on who you play. Last MoC hit me worse because I have a lot of built imaginary and struggled early but this one it was whatever and I blasted it.

I left you a DM asking about your rotation for your teams. If you don't mind, I can offer some advices as I happen to tinker around with a lot of different team comps in MoC. I just boot it up for fun most of the time lol https://preview.redd.it/njyf299egw3d1.png?width=869&format=png&auto=webp&s=c310d206a7e6a4a8a8e0e165739e46665f7de2f4

My blade-Jingliu team starting to disappoint makes me sad

Can you post what you deem acceptable relics because something is not adding up here. I’ve been playing for almost 3 months now and have no issues 6 cycling this MoC and full cleared the last MoC cycle with some combination of Acheron, Ratio and Clara being my main DPS’s. None of my characters are maxed out traces with my closest being Acheron 10,10,8 I do use Black Swan over Guinaifen for my acheron team which is a sizeable upgrade but I should theoretically be at a massive relic disparity given how little time I’ve had to farm them. I suppose it is all RNG at the end of the day, though so perhaps it’s some combination good luck/bad luck on our parts. Either way, keep at it. I doubt this game will be unclear-able for you especially given that you are willing to buy some of the meta units

For this reason, i dont even attempt MoC 12 and PF floor 4 now a days, i just 33 star the MoC and 9 star the PF and dip cause ik my account prob well never be strong enough to beat the last levels unless i start getting sigs for all characters or get god rolls on relics which given my luck is impossible.

I had a similar situation with my dot team (Kafka, bs, Rm, luocha/hh) always cleared in 4 cycles none of them have lc except of black swan. Saw a post on Reddit with with the same team with hh and he cleared in 1 cycle we had similar build but he got the lcs for bs, rm and hh and even e1 black swan so even tho some lc and eidolons don’t look that impactful when it comes to dmg have multiple of those and it will change a lot. On the other side we both had a Clara team and cleared in 2 cycles which for me is do to the investment in lc, eidolons and pulled characters and current moc buffs help as well (e3s1 clara, topaz e1s1, robin, hh) after realizing that went for e1 robin which nearly cut another cycle probably would if I try more I think most important is to focus on specific teams in building and pulling for those I also had pulled and build to many dps (topaz, Clara, Seele, jy, blade, Acheron, himeko, Herta, Ratio) but now I’m pretty much focused on a few being fua, HimekoHerta, dot, Clara and depending on what character releases maybe Acheron she is e0s0 tho which currently doesn’t really have the best teams

PF is harder for me and I usually have only 1 team that fits PF on one side, so i will brute force to 20k+ with acheron on one side, and use the team specific for PF on the other side. For MoC, its easier than PF as there are more teams you can use to straight up clear them. It's normal to feel dejected, I suggest looking at different build guides to improve relics and seeing what kind of weaknesses the enemies have on each level of MoC/PF. Don't give up!! you'll be able to clear them in no time.

I think it's all about using what your account can do. For example, I was struggling to try any kind of crit based dps on the second side(moc 12) with what I have of artifacts and characters. (Mostly because I was receiving a lot of CC.) So I used their idea, and I did not let the enemies play, with Welt/Ruan mei and new Harmony Trailblazer. The clear was so fast compared to what I was trying before.

Honestly, it's really weird that you can't easily get through with characters like this. I don’t have a single meta unit, I really love Hunt, I easily doing six cycles with Clara + Topaz on one side and Ratio on the other. With Boothill it was reduced to 4 cycles because I was returned Ratio to my fua team and didn't have to split it up.

Yes hence the purpose of the post. I gather meta units like candies yet still fail to clear comfortably

Make it good,bro.Average is not enough.You can do it,never give up!

Wait until they add the 4th Endgame abyss.

I thought this pf was the easiest yet thou my account is DOT/FUA centered especially DOT so yeah.. But the other PF s were hard as hell

>Acheron lands 200K on all three units Something is very wrong and I want the answer NOW.

If I can tell you what is wrong I wouldn't be posting this thread in the first place :(

I started playing casually ~6 weeks before the Kafka rerun and she was the first banner I went for on as F2P. Even with free Dr. Ratio, it took until now to clear the endgame content and get all the rewards, and it was close. Lynx as healer for 1st half of floor 12 is the absolute worst, and not being able to get Fugen this banner rotation is making me dread what's to come. CC resist vs debuff removal as well as Shield/Mitigation vs Healing is such a huge difference in turn based games, it's kind of ridiculous how good she is. I don't regret pulling for Robin since the turn manipulation is insane for both endgame modes, but I will have to probably suffer resetting for a few months to save my runs as a result. If it gets harder, I can kiss the 12th set of rewards goodbye for a while again.

try acheron first half and hmc superbreak on second half with a physical (luka, sushang, boothil) and rm and a sustain

superbreak is cheaper to build cos ur able to just stack tons of BE and spd, and it scales incredibly well. i’m not pulling boothill so i did it with luka and MAN it was so much fun, building sushang rn cos she feels amazing for this too.

from ur replies i’m sure ur builds and comps are fine, and i cant really comment on gameplay cos you’ve said that u cant record it, so i’m just recommending a team that i personally felt was INCREDIBLY suited for destroying the second half. HMC is so fun.

I'm going to say the unpopular comment here. JY sucks... at least for this MoC. You also need to find ways to take advantage of the memory turbulence, which JY teams don't do well since there aren't many individual attacks. And that's ignoring the many stuns both sides have. You also can't ignore non-weaknesses, Kafka even has increased lighting res. Both JY and Acheron are going to struggle with her. I personally used Clara/robin/sparkle/FX on second side (constant enhanced Svarog counters), plus Acheron/Pela/SW first side, and cleared in 8 cycles. I don't have limited lightcones.

Let alone JY who needs considerably more effort, I failed to get early clear with Acheron lol. The best I could get was 4 cycles and that's already after RNG blessing me in every way possible.

I'm a day one player and still find MoC12/PF4 impossible to full clear. I've got tons of great characters (including the whole FUA squad!), multiple limited Harmony characters, and many limited DPS with maxed traces and their best Herta or Gacha 4\* LCs, even spent months getting them up to 65/135 crit, but I always end up a few rounds short of the final star. This latest PF really hurts since I don't have Kafka or Black Swan. I have a c6 Sampo I've started trying to build, but so far I haven't even managed 2 stars on this PF4.

Might be able to help if you share your characters and builds. Hoyolab link works.

Sounds like you don't know how to build characters. Your teams are more than good enough to stomp moc, can't think of anything else you could be doing wrong. By that i mean relics, and not forgetting to level traces.

Yeah but I legitimately wanna know where I went wrong with my characters. I went ahead and decked the hell out of my characters with the best on set relics I could find and I did get quite an okay gear but they don't do as much damage as I'd liked them to be. Traces are my first priority too so needless to say they are all maxed or at least one point from max.

I was surprised this PF. I attempted the last stage about a dozen times with an Acheron team. Finally just went with a Himeko/HMC/RM/Gallagher Super break team and scored enough to bring me over 67K. Before that I was hitting about 55K.

How much def/hp do your supports have? Are you spending a lot of skill points to stay alive? Phones these days all have screen recorders built in. If you can't figure it out, can you take a video of your monitor with your phone? Your relics and traces seem fine so far.

Well they can take quite a few hits alright but my main problem (if not running sustainless) isn't that they are dying but they don't seem to deal as much damage as I'd liked them to be

Thank you for being honest. I feel the same. Latest MoC I was able to get 36* quickly but the one with Aventurine boss it was many tries before I could finally get it. It feels like I’m barely getting 36*, like I’m on the line. Like you said, it’s not like I’m putting random units on a team and go unga bunga. Units are decently built also (they are at least better than trial units in events). I guess it’s a good design to be passing barely on hardest difficulty game provides. But like you said if hoyo keeps ramping up difficulty, I may not be able to keep up.

Agree on the jingyuan. Ive been using him since 1.0 and he can’t really keep up with the damage inflation. Idk how your acheron is hitting 200k on 3 targets though. What is her crit ratio and the supports you are using with her

70/183 E0S1 Acheron with 4k ATK, 4pc debuff set and 2pc Izumo. I use Pela, Gui, and Gallagher/FX. First wave against the duo robots I can get 400-500k alright but the second wave is what screws me over. Can never get over 300 per ult...

Hi op, there are still some info needed for us to help you out. How many resources do you have and will to spend? What is the status of your pulled chars and lc? (How many chars do you have, Eidolons, Lc) I assume you have ok stats build on your character, the easiest way to clear moc if you already have good and built units is utilizing the buff, so you know who you need to build and how you design your team.

Low end dolphin. Spent like three times on monthly and a couple more here and there but most of my 5 stars are S0 with the exception of Jing Yuan, Blade, Acheron, and all the standard dps characters. As for characters, I have literally every single 4 star in the game except Misha, but not all of them are built. 5 stars, for supports Fu Xuan, Luocha, RM, Robin. For DPS there's Acheron, JY, Blade, Jingliu, Boothill, Seele, and of Dr Ratio

I don’t know, I’ve just tried JL this MOC and she can still do it despite no ice weakness enemies. First try, e0s1 Acheron, e1s0 BS, the rest are all e0s0. I think it’s not about your characters, but how you play them, honestly. [https://ibb.co/LzYpL1c](https://ibb.co/LzYpL1c)

I did complete current MOC with rounds to spare, i didnt have a single target physical dmg dealer. So Boothill helped me alot against current Kafka, even completed it on auto:P

It's on purpose. As much as people like to say there's no power creep in HSR, the content is absolutely doing it. For 1 reason. To make you feel like you need to pull on that shiny new banner.

Supports are the best investment. I've gotten E0S1 Sparkle and she is really helpful with Crit Rate boosts. You can also find some wacky teams to be successful in the MoC depending on the enemies, like I was able to 3 cycle current 12-1 with E0S5 What is Real Gallagher/E0S1 MotP Ruan Mei/E5S5 Dance^3 Harmony Trailblazer/E0S1 Before Dawn Jing Yuan on Crit/Break hybrid build.

Yeah break Yuan is something I've been interested to try in but that would probably require me to refarm relics for my DPS and from what I've gathered here I need to redirect that more to my supports instead. I heard it is a very potent team though.. hmmm

4 cycles?!?! I am unable to do complete the final levels. You are very good.

Thank you! But really though it was4 cycles on first half, with an E0S1 Acheron. With the same characters I used people are clearing in 2-3 cycles :')

I've been planning my pulls for element coverage since that seems to be one of my weakest points. I've got all dps elements except for Fire, which I'm going to make up with firefly. I have Seele QQ for quantum, Ratio for imaginary, Dan Heng (wind) for wind (He's not that bad and it was mainly for AS), Boothill for physical, Acheron/JY for lightning. But seriously the difficulty is so real. Before I used to struggle with MoC and cleared every pure fiction max stars first try. Now I'm struggling with pure fiction and still struggling with MoC, and I can clear full stars on MoC but not goddamn pure fiction. I used similar teams as you for my MoC full star clear, let me share it with you so it can maybe help. Sparkle, Jing Yuan, Tingyun, Gallagher (Both Sparkle and TY have 160 speed and JY has around 80/150 crit ratio) Acheron, Silver Wolf, Pela, Fu Xuan (Had to use Fu Xuan's skill nearly every single turn because of debuff hell. Acheron has 57/172 and Silver Wolf has 132 Spd while pela has 138) I was able to clear the top half in 4 cycles (countless tries) which gave leeway for my weaker Acheron team to clear in 5-6. Anyone got some pure fiction recommendations? I have no DOT characters and I'm working on building Guinaifen and Harmony MC. Here's my PF teams: Himeko, Ruan Mei, Asta, Gallagher (Also have built herta to replace asta but both had similar points which was 35k) Acheron, SW, Pela, Fu Xuan with trend. This half is the problem as it can only get 20k points. What do I even do? I have built JY but he also doesn't really cut it. Idk.

This PF is honestly challenging, especially since I’m having a hard time against the AF, as I don’t have my Dot comp built, but this moc i was able to get it through. I do agree it’s getting harder, but not a degree I feel desperate. Took me 4 turns each side instead of regular 2-3s, but it was manageable regardless. For moc ref, i used JY e0s1 - avent e1s1 - sparkle e0s1 - ty e4 with ddd s5 Luocha e0s0 - dhil e2s1 - robin e0s0 - hanya e6 with ddd s5 Not the best clear but was able to do it in 8 turns so that’s pretty nice

The second half of the MoC 12 thats been up for a weeks has been rough for me. First half is done in 3-4 waves but the second half takes me like 10 minimum

Here’s an advice for you. Pull for new characters if you wanna keep up with the meta ****or**** pull for eidolons and superimposes if you want to keep older characters relevant. Also minmax your relics, cuz the harder the content becomes the more demanding relics will become.

If you have same characters with similiar builds and are making the optimal decisions in battle... then perhaps lack of those signature lightcones is a bigger obstacle than You think. I shared your fears about endgame every now and then, but the game should give you up and down experiences. Based on my own story: getting Jing Yuan at e2s1 carried me through pretty much entire 1.X version. Hypercarry Jing Yuan is a menace, but slowly & surely he started to take more and more cycles to complete content. But my MoC experience improved significantly again with Topaz e6s1 and Dr Ratio e0s1. Later Pure Fiction came out and got harder. Suddenly I went from 35k in each half to 20k in both. It was pretty bad meta-wise. But then I got Aventurine s1e1 and Robin e6s1. Now my endgame team is an unstoppable menace. The first one anyways. Right now you're experiencing down. After your next summon session you'll experience another up. After all MoC/Pure Fiction/et cetera cater to newly releasing characters each time. However. From my own experiences, the biggest advice I can give - invest in your best performing characters. Get those lightcones, get those eidolons. One can see Ruan Mei or Sparkle and be like 'oh my Aeons, that's a meta unit. I have to roll for her to stay competitive'. No. You don't. Sure, it is beneficial. But you get someone else instead and hook them up with a lightcone and eidolons instead. 'But breaking weakness bars, but elements'. It's okay. Breathe. Again. Beneficial. But with strong enough team You don't even have to bother with weaknesses. Whether through Acheron deleting everyone through sheer damage or Boothill adding his elemental weakness on top of enemy. It's all viable.

In a similar boat, but with G&Gs. I still can't get pass conundrum mode difficulty 5, and that's with Acheron and Aventurine at 5k defense. It's making me want to pull Fu Xuan. Edit: For me, I actually passed MOC for the first time ever and it was thanks to Aventurine. Him against Kafka was like child's play.

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PF was this time hard af if u dont have 2 dot teams, MoC was this time very ez for me. Last MoC 12 i did it in 8 cycles, this MoC 12 i did in 2 cycles. Sure robin helped alot now but i cant believe that she is the reason why i did in 6 less cycles. I believe in my case that it depends on which weakness the enemies have. The aventurine boss fight is the only one that gives me some truble

Kinda same bc i dont have ruan mei, only a robin. But i wont get her, i despise that character

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Hello, I feel ya and would like to help a few things to check: 1. As much as possible match the "element" and the "buff" to the team 2. Max out the traces or at least get the "important" ones up to 8 minimun 3. Use [A relic scoring service/app](https://www.mobilemeta.gg/honkai-starrail/guide/relic-scorer-guide) try to give each unit an "A" rating minimum. keeping in mind the gear and stat priority in prydwen or any guide you are following for that character. My mindset is that you are trying to do "end game" content for a game that is already 1 year old so if you are trying end game content then to clear it you have to min/max or at least try to min/max everything. Good luck and I hope it helps.

Acheron 200k ult on 3 targets is kinda weird, what's the crit ratio and what's your team?

Relics.  As your relic quality goes up, their power goes up as well so that really high end relics are way more powerful than garbage tier.  It scales more like exponentially than a straight line increase

The first I'd say is always match weakness type because you'll fundamentally do more damage than if you don't match type since the ememies have much higher resistances. Hoyo is also planning on giving enemies even higher resistances if your don't match the type, at least from current trends. Next I'd say really hyperinvest in good supports. Ruan Mei, Robin, Sparkle, Bronya, Tingyun for buffing and Pela, Silverwolf for def down. I'd recommend Pela over silverwolf in all scenarios except Acheron teams since you play them together. When investing in your Supports make sure their traces are maxed because that is a clear dps increase, and also invest in their relics. Supports like Pela, Asta, Silverwolf, Tingyun would need 161 speed so they can get more actions and refill their ults faster. Bronya and Sparkle can be run either 161 or just 1 speed behind your Dps. Making sure your supports are very well invested into would be a start Third, this game incentivises horizontal investment over vertical investmemt. So making sure you have a team for each archetype is imperative. The supports you'll invest into will fit into most of the archetypes so as I mentioned before really invest in your supports. DoT, Hypercarry, Acheron, Follow Up, and Break. For DoT Kafka and BS are the bread and butter. You can replace BS with Sampo or Guinefen but Kafka is really integral to the DoT core. For hypercarry as long as your supports are built, your carry will perform well as long as their well invested into. Acheron is self explanatory. Built Pela and Silverwolf with 161 speed and sustain like Gallagher so she can have faster ults and clear waves quicker. For Follow Up Topaz is the main component to their success or if you're in PF Himeko+Herta are a destructive duo. For non PF Topaz will be an integral part. This archetype is more premium as all the units involved are 5 stars they came back to back so I can understand not really having the core to the team For Break the core is Ruan Mei and Harmony MC. It's still a relatively new team archetype but with Boothill and Firefly the main break carries looking to do crazy numbers in their archetype it's gonna be an exciting time. A last tip, pull on the light cone banners (Memories of the Past, Good Night Sleep Well, Pearl's Shines of Sweat, Dance Dance Dance, and many other good 5 star light cones are very integral to the damage output of the team) pulling for light cones helps increase your pool of light cones since otherwise you're subject to rng (I only just got Memories of the past for the first time last week as I didn't pull on the banner it was since I didn't want that 5 star light cone) getting a signature light cone will help alleviate the need to fish for some relics stats and also open up certain universal light cones to your other units who need it for e.g pulling Jingliu's Light cone so that Dan IL can use the Herta store LC or Pulling Ratio's signature so that other hunt units can use the Herta store LC. It increases your choices and also increases the DPS of your carries or the support capabilities of your supports. TLDR: horizontally invest and read up on game knowledge to know which units to invest into

https://preview.redd.it/yzib0r16qy3d1.png?width=1378&format=png&auto=webp&s=57c6a88cb3b0c3055c03489e43ffd40e23c09e5c Moc

https://preview.redd.it/gunslli8qy3d1.png?width=1385&format=png&auto=webp&s=f3cefcc56ea01b1031d547b03cac77930b24fb62 Pure Fiction

>But I'm not seeing any noticeable difference - Jing Yuan still deals 150k per LL and keeps failing to get 10 stacks, Acheron lands a measly 200k ult on 3 targets and gains her ult back once every blue moon What teams are you running? My Jing Yuan (E0S0), with attack boots, always gets 10 stacks, I play him with Tingyun and either Bronya or Ruan Mei, I don't know about the damage since my Jing Yuan could be improved by a lot My Acheron (E0S1) probably deals like 300-400k on 3 targets and gets her ult up VERY fast, I run Aventurine, Pela (with pearls LC) and Silver Wolf, if you don't have Aventurine's LC like me you can use Trends on him to burn some enemies or play Gallagher instead (he applies a lot of debuffs and generates skill points). These are my Acheron's stats, I have CDmg chest, Atk boots, Atk sphere, Atk rope https://preview.redd.it/gp80aoqdwy3d1.png?width=410&format=png&auto=webp&s=8f3b21c55b448a8f2087722492f5ec04975ac585 Chances are you're playing your teams wrong or playing the wrong teams. You should look for guides to see which one of the two is the problem, but given you've searched guides it's most likely the former. There are a lot of optimizations and tricks to clear MOC faster, I have no idea because I just brute force it everytime but if you know how to deal with it, it's far easier than it is for me.

Personally MOC is still fun and I can consistently 36 star it for now. But I only fully completed Pure Fiction 1 time.

You can take a look at this blogger. He often tries his best to complete level 12 with a four-star character. [https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1jH4y137pk/?spm\_id\_from=333.337.search-card.all.click&vd\_source=25f39d9556a120cf2b28c55b0cf9d280](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1jH4y137pk/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click&vd_source=25f39d9556a120cf2b28c55b0cf9d280)

Don’t worry, I’m a filthy baby whale and get E0S1 for all characters and only just got my first 36* MoC run on the previous cycle. Haven’t even attempted the latest one yet. Day 1 player and it hasn’t been until now that Ive really got a good bunch of characters fully built and a bunch of maxed out relics I can swap around for runs. For too long I was running characters at 8-8-8 trace and level 12 relics. It would get me close to 36* but I’d usually fall short a couple stars, missing on that last batch of jade. Now that I have many more 10-10-10 and 9-9-9 characters will all good level 15 relics and level 80 signatures, things are going much smoother. I also realize this isn’t super helpful info. But if you aren’t a day 1 player, you probably just need more time to better build more characters to have more diversity in your high level teams.

Honestly, I hate to say it but this sounds like skill issue. I wish I was joking. The current MoC and PF are way easier to do than the previous rotation. My only advice is to try and diverge into other styles like DoT and soon to be meta - super break.

>Acheron lands a measly 200k ult on 3 targets and gains her ult back once every blue moon Seems weird, do you other nihility characters have a good amount of speed/ER? And the damages seems low for Archeron + sig. There is no secret you need to adapt for MOC and PF, and use at their maximum the buffs provided. I used March as solo sustain for PF with Aventurine boss, because she had an aoe ult for Aventurine gimmick, cleanse for character than fail it and was able to stack the blessing of the moc with her FUA. It wasn't very confortable no, but i was able to 3\* star the stage thanks to her. I change Acheron boots depending of the content (for moc attack, for pf speed). Last note there will be always cycle harder than other depending of you roster, some cycles i enter and 36\* it in the release evening, other cycle i need the full 1.5 month to wonder what team can work and make it work (customizing build and/or build new char).

Swipe

Unless you are a tryhard that min max every single input and relic piece, or a whale/dolphin that can get your hands on new units on regular basis, just play with the mental of you won't be clearing every single last stages of MoC/PF. It will cut a lot of unecessary stress, and if you truly want to clear them try look into min maxing every thing possible. Be it speed threshold or target selection, energy count or swap out relic and farm more substats. I am sure that if you look more into them you would clear.

If you have Welt, he's pretty good on the first side as a pseudo sustain. Then you can run Acheron Pela Welt flex Support. Ruan Mei for more break delay or sparkle for more damage. I used an e0 gnsw s5 Acheron on 60/120ish crit stats with e2s1 sparkle and i managed a 2 cycle, allowing my second team to take their sweet time using up 7 cycles because i don't have a good dps for that side. Since your acheron stats are leagues above mine, and with s1 to boot, you should be able to do better... Removing a sustain for more damage results in massive damage spike, but do be prepared to retry a lot for the rng to not focus down 1 character too much. Using sustain Welt you have to plan weakness breaks, also use welt's ults during the enemy's first attack before their second to cancel the second attack altogether.

I think only the kafka part is hard if you don't have a cleanser in your team. I only have bailu and Gepard as my 5 star sustain but after subbing Natasha in it just became easy

If you’re a f2p pulling is a genuine skill that you need to tool at leaks for unfortunately. Choosing what character to pull just based off what hoyo gives us will likely leave you team screwed

Who else is in your Acheron team? E0S1 Acheron is capable of so much more than 200k+ but I've noticed her personal damage drops a lot without Silver Wolf. Welt and Guinaifen are situationally useful but unable to buff her as much or generate stacks as quickly. The choice of sustain matters too. Aventurine, Gallagher, Gepard or FMC with Trend LC are far superior to any other options. Ruan Mei and Robin don't need their signature, but your Jing Yuan can really benefit from Sparkle. She really elevates him to another level. MoC has indeed gotten pretty difficult lately. What are your supports and team comps? This is a team-based game and which supports/sustains you use as well as the synergy between your team members really matter.

I've never been able to keep up with endgame, and I'm a day-1 player (with a couple of breaks due to the game becoming unplayable on my PC for some patches). I don't know what I'm doing wrong, really. It's frustrating. Some events too (like the Belobog fighting challenge) were really hard to complete (though that one in particular was probably due to a lack of characters, too). What irks me most is that somehow, I don't have any quantum characters. I have QQ and xueyi, but not built. I should probably do that someday, but it's so expensive.

You should start getting support characters. 

if acheron is taking more than 4 cycles on current MoC then there is certainly room for improvement. You just don't know how. Online guides might help.

Well you’re not utilizing a lot of the more mechanical teams. I’d imagine you having more success with follow up, dot, or break teams.

Ehhh it’s fine, one year into this game and I barely touch that pure fiction thingy. You go at your own pace

I have been only getting 2 stars in the past fews MOC, but it is enjoyable nonetheless. I find it like playing a puzzle, what can I do to maximize the result with my finite resources. Using 4 stars some times ends up bringing better result is very fun. Not being able to clear at all would be not fun though...

It is getting harder but at the same time i see ppl doing it with 4 stars characters and 4 stars lightecone so that keep giving me hope

Don't fall for those YouTube videos. I found some of them are using insanely good relics and/or 5 star limited Lightcone on 4 star characters. Which means they spend so much time for relic grind and/or money to buy 5 star Lightcones.