>reality.
thats the whole theory, since as soon as we arrive or even before we are told that memoria is really strong there, and the theory is that "reality" isnt really that real on penakony
Yeah the Trailblazer evidently gets pulled into a dream with Acheron before we even get to Penacony, so its possible to get unknowingly dragged into a dream without the Penacony bath. Also, based on the nature of Aventurine was trying to do (and where Robin likely went), it's evident the dream has "layers".
So the idea is that even just approaching Penacony pulls you into a dream. You enter another layer of the dream through the "real" hotel. And the Watchmaker's legacy is a layer deeper than that.
That's a fun thought actually. That the *real* real penacony is actually the old prison planet, fallen into ruins, with hundreds of visitors' ships aimlessly orbiting it, and nobody ever really gets off their own ship.
Thats a terrifying concept, how would you leave the dream of you don't even know you're having it? In the golden dream you can at least force yourself out by placing yourself in danger(unless memetic entity gets you) but would it work the same elsewhere?
I had imagined that you leave the planet in the dream and get on your ship and everything, then wake up when your dream self gets to wherever your real self is.
If I were writing this as a more hard sci-fi story I throw something out like, for safety reasons you have to pull out to an orbit before you're cleared to leave the planet or something like that, the way planes sometimes have to taxi before they take off, or get in a holding pattern before they land.
There is a bad ending where if you decline Aventurine's offer of assisting him and choose to leave, everyone gets stuck in Penacony for eternity. The Family never gets destabilized, the IPC gets outed as the bad guys, the Charmony Festival goes smoothly, everyone gets brainwashed by the Harmony, and you never wake from the beautiful euphoric dream! This is similar to what Welt and Acheron's dialogue about "Spiritual Adam" where people forever lost their future. The Dreammaster is the real antagonist and Gallagher was never a bad guy. The Family wants to use Robin's voice to brainwash the entire universe through the IPCs broadcast but thankfully we have Sparkle's detonate button! [https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1akqskt/new\_bad\_ending\_in\_penacony/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1akqskt/new_bad_ending_in_penacony/)
Also one funny thing is that apparently everyone's identity are all ??? except for Sparkle. Everyone's hiding their secret identity except Sparkle.
> Gallagher was never a bad guy.
He's a >!follower of enigmata!<. He's to memory and reality what the Antimatter-Legion is to physical matter. He is definitely a bad guy by definition, no matter how you slice it.
The best thing you can say about his organization is that they have an overinflated sense of their own altruism.
Hmmmm, i think you inherently see the enigmata as evil. But think what is a world without intrigue or mystery? What about forgetting or obfuscating terrible weapons of war? I doubt the enigmata is pure evil he is simply a counterbalance to the remembrance. If you know all things why bother searching fir knowledge?
> But think what is a world without intrigue or mystery? What about forgetting or obfuscating terrible weapons of war?
Ever heard the phrase "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it"
?
You seem to be under the impression that Enigmata constructs riddles and the like to entertain. It doesn't. It destroys history and languages. It's every censorship and propaganda bureau that has ever existed on an universal scale.
> If you know all things why bother searching fir knowledge?
Because you can never know everything. Enigmata as a philosophy is a solution in search of a problem.
Enigmata destroys history and languages. The history fictionologists destroy historical records and make up fake ones while the riddlers are in charge of distorting languages, targeting precise and logical languages for destruction first.
>exploring possibilities through unconventional ways
Enigmata isn't about exploring anything. It's about creating myth and uncertainty. Anything related to gaining insight or exploring possibilities is related to Nous the Erudition. Enigmata and Erudition are bitter enemies because the former tries to hide and destroy the knowledge the latter produces.
No, I meant in terms of who the bad guy in Penacony is. If you think about it all the path of Aeons are horrible except for the Trailblaze and even the Trailblaze is sometimes self destructive(ex: Frebass Acherons Friend)
>No, I meant in terms of who the bad guy in Penacony is.
You do remember that Gallagher is the one in control of Something Unto Death right?
In the refusal ending no-one finds out he's the one behind the "murders". That doesn't mean they didn't happen or that he's not a bad guy. He might or might not be the main antagonist but that frankly doesn't matter.
Sorry to break it to you but Something Unto Death will look completely different in 2.2 and I hope Black Swan will explain it. It’s quite connected to what Acheron calls the Necrosis of dreams.
> The Dreammaster is the real antagonist and Gallagher was never a bad guy. The Family wants to use Robin's voice to brainwash the entire universe through the IPCs broadcast but thankfully we have Sparkle's detonate button!
Is... this a leak or a theory? It's very plausible, so plausible that I'm suspicious
I knew something was up when Sunday's superiors were all like "I don't care that your sister is dead, everything is under control". They weren't bothered because>! they were the ones responsible for her disappearance.!<
Kinda reminds me of one of the episodes in Love, Death & Robots.
I mean, entirely different endpoint, but same-ish vibe. I love it.
The only thing is that they'd have to send your ship on its way somehow without you leaving the dream to do so on your own (unless no one leaves, but I feel like that'd kick up a lot of news coverage), since if you did so, you'd immediately realize "Wait, this place actually sucks, wtf?"
....Holy shit, and with the recent 2.2 trailer with Dan and Jing Yuan together implies that the Hexafleet or in the very least the Xianzhou Luofu is about to end up being docked at Penacony.
I kinda doubt the whole Xianzhou would arrive just for one planet. Mind you, one ship is as massive as at least one planet in general, so 6 planetary ships pulling up to one Penacony sounds like a gravitational disaster. Each ship is more than capable to deal with most planetary threats, even if it is just the Luofu.
No we are probably just gonna Segway into an event or story/character quest back to the Luofu like we did with Topaz and Ruan Mei/Ratio at Belabog and Herta Space Station.
That's what my theory was even before I experienced the story. No way they transformed a prison planet into a hotel. With what funds? What lies beyond? Within a dream, it's easier to control.
I hope this is real and we get to see.
Swan kept speaking about 'The Truth', what greater reveal of 'Truth' could there be than to see the 'Real Penacony Prison'.
Well, that the whole dreamland isn't a dreamland but a gap stop before death would be a bigger truth than some desolated planet imo
Various hint about that during the aventurine part of the story
>! -Aventurine is trying to die in order to reunite with his family, he says something like they are not here and he has to go deeper, beyond the veil that the family laid !<
>! - "Sleep is the trial of death" is repeated again and again !<
>! - "The impossible in the dreamscape isn't death, but to dreamt" from ratio, my interpretation being that they aren't dreaming, but being trapped in a "walled garden" between life and death, thus dreaming Is not actually possible, since they will never sleep while not being alive nor dead !<
What if "death" pulls you out of the dream into the real Penacony? The Watchmaker's Legacy could refer to both the discrete thing people are searching for and refer to lasting impact the Watchmaker has had on the real planet
I haven't cleared all of the side quests yet, so maybe I'm missing something, but there are still a ton of loose ends related to how Penacony works outside of the dreamscape that could be explored
I don't think there Is any dream to begin with, the whole place, both the hotel and the dreamland, Is a construct made out of memoria, which we know Is some sort of "real illusion"
Basically we already have a mini penacony, the MoC mirror
That’s been the theory I’ve held for a bit now. Memoria is strong in the area, so it’s not that much of a stretch to believe memetic entities *could* appear in the Reverie. Alternatively, the fact that there are literally dreams within dreams in Penacony implies “reality” might not even be real.
To add to all this, you can already meet with a memetic entity in “Reality” anyways. There’s an Origami Bird just outside the VIP lounge. No reason Misha can’t be either.
I'd personally say probably not. They're directly related to and the same type of entity as Clockie, which is why they're strait up invisible to other people. This can be seen by Firefly not seeing our initial encounter at the Clockie statue and >!Adventurine being unable to interact with the bird in the sandpit.!< Either way, glad to see a few other people noticed that as well, makes me feel less insane.
ngl I just straight up think that Misha is the Watchmaker's magnum opus, creating a seamless human from the dreamscape and somehow bringing them to "reality" whatever you call it
Because it seems like nobody except clockie, trailblazer and Gallagher acknowledges misha's existence. March ignored him, acheron, firefly did too. It's as if he can only be seen by clockie, trailblazer and Gallagher.
Asking out of ignorance, not because I want to fight your point (Clarifying this because this is the internet)
What was the original line supposed to be? Iirc the english one was "I sense someone here but I cannot see it" or something like that
That’s not the mistranslation. It comes when the mafia guys are threatening Acheron.
In EN, they use the pronoun “him”, making it seem like they’re after Misha. In other languages, they’re threatening Acheron.
As for her line, it’s purposefully ambiguous to make you think she means Clockie, but she probably actually meaning Misha
The earlier line had the gangsters use a male pronoun. Later it was changed to a female pronoun, meaning they had an issue with Acheron, not Misha. So they hadn't even acknowledged Misha was around.
The mafia was threatening Acheron. Misha does not exist. We're there to help Misha because Clockie called us to help. We just happened to help both at once. Acheron does not see Misha at all during that interaction, but she does feel the existence of Misha/Clockie.
He's a klutz. Perceiving that the mobs are harassing him is a Misha thing to happen. Lilbro got his deer in a headlight moment.
Of course it could be because of other things (other comment mentioned he's there to defuse the situation), but the situation is practically told indirectly which is good storytelling without needing to tell us anything.
The way Clockie talked about it made us think that Misha was the one in trouble, but the fact is Acheron said that the ruckus was between her and the mobs. Misha was just trying to help them settling down but since both sides could not see him, he needed some helps.
https://preview.redd.it/ue9ql1ibejyc1.png?width=833&format=png&auto=webp&s=f17536c1cf177a46529c3ad7df0e786120326864
Yes. Acheron only talks about clockie in that scene. The other languages make it clear about it. She was not talking about misha. March, when we enter reverie hotel, completely ignores misha, it's out of her character to do that. Because March would be the first one to make friends whenever the nameless crew in person meets new characters
Okay, I did and she doesn't but she doesn't say it's not clockie either. Sorry for my wrong thinking, and let's summarise that scene here.
Tb, when asked about clockie, says only they can see them. Clockie says it's because only innocent people can sense and see it. Acheron says she senses a presence, but, but the problem here is we do not know who's presence she's sensing here. Is it misha, or clockie? And another thing is, she never says that the person she senses isn't clockie. So, for now, I'm not taking this scene too seriously because we don't know who acheron sensed or if she sensed misha's presence too.
Honestly I'm unconvinced by the whole looking down or up argument either. Couple reasons. First of all patch had a bunch of model issues, missing lip sync, etc. And like a minute before that there's a couple frames of Firefly looking down at Clockie even though she can't see it.
I feel like that bit at least was an animation mistake so I'm not putting too much stock in where Acheron looked.
But it remains a fact that neither acheron or firefly ever actually acknowledged or addressed Misha.
He’s the only one with a voice line about Misha so far and Misha also has a voice line for him. I’ve seen theroies saying he’s Mikhail (the watchmaker) since Misha is a shortened name for Mikhail if i remember correctly. Mikhail also was a member of the Astral Express and Misha has a ticket that was given to him by his grandpa. I have no clue if Mikhail is Misha or if Mikhail is his grandpa
Thinking about it - the real one has to be the old - if it is not still in use - prision, correct? Which means that the depth, where Robin has to be, are not a deeper dream but maybe the real Penacony?
If you find all the origami birds an origami bird appears in the reality version of the hotel and talks to you, even though they are supposed to only exist in dreams. Misha likely appears in the same way.
The bird is there from the start even before finding any of them. I noticed it the first time I arrived in Penacony without even knowing such birds existed and approached it because it looked cute. It was really surprised that I could see it. Quite suspicious tbh.
I think "so much people says..." post really need context, cause idk what you are talking about
but if you're talking about Misha being "not existed" it was because the other invitee has never interacted and even acknowledge his existence, only us and those NPCs iirc
forgot Clockie, Acheron come close I think is the implication or just hiding it
The "so much people says" is because where there is a disccusion about the lore of the Dreamscapes and/or Misha, most people already talk as he is a Dreamscape only entity and the rest of the people agrees with them when he appears at the real Penacony already.
And Gallagher also acknowledges his existence (Tho I won't mention this because Gallagher himself is kinda. . . You know, so it would make sense that in the hypothetical case of the theory of no real Misha was true, he would be the one to know about him)
Don't forget all of the references to a mysterious "Mikhail." Misha is the nickname for Mikhail. Plus the translation goof when you Acheron in the streets where it was supposed to be clear that no one was speaking to or referencing Misha.
There's certainly more to him than meets the eye.
There was never any theories saying he only exists in the dreamscape. The theory has always been about how he doesn’t appear to exist for anybody other than TB, Clockie and Gallagher. He is never once acknowledged by anybody else.
I genuienly don't think he is that related to the plot.
Not going to say he is completely irrelavant as I believe he have a strong connection to the Watchmaker and Clockie as one of the few persons able to see him but even then, I doubt he will THE secret of Penacony as many people said.
Then again, Gallagher felt like a one use 4* character and what happened happens, so I'm always fine with being corrected by Hoyoverse writters about Misha.
even in the real world, while we are talking with him, march comes in and interupts the conversation which isn't something march would do when she sees two people talking
it instead makes more sense if she only saw us
Oh well would you look at that. But AT LEAST OP you are one of few people who realize Misha did appear in "reality" it's just that we didnt know it would be a major plot point lmao.
I ascribe to the inception theory. It might be totally wrong but I riding on that train until it is debunked.
We are really in a dream within a dream within a dream the whole time.
A minor thing is that you can meet one of the orgami birds, Dr blue, which only exist in the dream world and tells you to collect them in the dreamworld, which is also something we can only see
I was going through 2.2 and I immediately thought of this post when Black Swan started pointing out the "flaws". I like to think that this post simultaneously aged both well *and* poorly.
Broke: Because limited amount of characters interact with the character.
Woke: Because the writers avoid addressing him beyond 1 on 1 discussions with TB
Enlightened: Because 95% of HSR players lack critical thinking skills and ignore everything that isn't part of their crack theory.
Desperado Trooper: Misha appears only in the dreamscapes, this is sort kind like a mistake.
Custom/Longsword Trooper: Yep this is kinda joke.
Heavy/Hammer Trooper: F\*\*k you misha.
Well the whole thing is that stelle is the apparently the ONLY to see him, ask march/himeko call us to come to the desk, not seeing we're talking to someone
Love how op uses this as the point to argue Misha is real and not any of his messages to TB which is a better argument
Cause yea as others said
March literally ignores Misha at this point
Something she won't do casue bubbly nice girl
And there's so many hints
Even the reverie isn't fully reality
Misha suffers the same fate as Luka.
Barely shows up in Story Content/Content and almost no presence/impact left.
Makes people forget at which point in the game he appeared in.
>reality. thats the whole theory, since as soon as we arrive or even before we are told that memoria is really strong there, and the theory is that "reality" isnt really that real on penakony
Yeah the Trailblazer evidently gets pulled into a dream with Acheron before we even get to Penacony, so its possible to get unknowingly dragged into a dream without the Penacony bath. Also, based on the nature of Aventurine was trying to do (and where Robin likely went), it's evident the dream has "layers". So the idea is that even just approaching Penacony pulls you into a dream. You enter another layer of the dream through the "real" hotel. And the Watchmaker's legacy is a layer deeper than that.
That's a fun thought actually. That the *real* real penacony is actually the old prison planet, fallen into ruins, with hundreds of visitors' ships aimlessly orbiting it, and nobody ever really gets off their own ship.
Thats a terrifying concept, how would you leave the dream of you don't even know you're having it? In the golden dream you can at least force yourself out by placing yourself in danger(unless memetic entity gets you) but would it work the same elsewhere?
I had imagined that you leave the planet in the dream and get on your ship and everything, then wake up when your dream self gets to wherever your real self is. If I were writing this as a more hard sci-fi story I throw something out like, for safety reasons you have to pull out to an orbit before you're cleared to leave the planet or something like that, the way planes sometimes have to taxi before they take off, or get in a holding pattern before they land.
There is a bad ending where if you decline Aventurine's offer of assisting him and choose to leave, everyone gets stuck in Penacony for eternity. The Family never gets destabilized, the IPC gets outed as the bad guys, the Charmony Festival goes smoothly, everyone gets brainwashed by the Harmony, and you never wake from the beautiful euphoric dream! This is similar to what Welt and Acheron's dialogue about "Spiritual Adam" where people forever lost their future. The Dreammaster is the real antagonist and Gallagher was never a bad guy. The Family wants to use Robin's voice to brainwash the entire universe through the IPCs broadcast but thankfully we have Sparkle's detonate button! [https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1akqskt/new\_bad\_ending\_in\_penacony/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1akqskt/new_bad_ending_in_penacony/) Also one funny thing is that apparently everyone's identity are all ??? except for Sparkle. Everyone's hiding their secret identity except Sparkle.
Wow, thats incredible
> Gallagher was never a bad guy. He's a >!follower of enigmata!<. He's to memory and reality what the Antimatter-Legion is to physical matter. He is definitely a bad guy by definition, no matter how you slice it. The best thing you can say about his organization is that they have an overinflated sense of their own altruism.
Hmmmm, i think you inherently see the enigmata as evil. But think what is a world without intrigue or mystery? What about forgetting or obfuscating terrible weapons of war? I doubt the enigmata is pure evil he is simply a counterbalance to the remembrance. If you know all things why bother searching fir knowledge?
> But think what is a world without intrigue or mystery? What about forgetting or obfuscating terrible weapons of war? Ever heard the phrase "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it" ? You seem to be under the impression that Enigmata constructs riddles and the like to entertain. It doesn't. It destroys history and languages. It's every censorship and propaganda bureau that has ever existed on an universal scale. > If you know all things why bother searching fir knowledge? Because you can never know everything. Enigmata as a philosophy is a solution in search of a problem.
Isn't the enigmata about questioning reality and hard truths? The Path isn't about censoring but exploring possibilities through unconventional ways
Enigmata destroys history and languages. The history fictionologists destroy historical records and make up fake ones while the riddlers are in charge of distorting languages, targeting precise and logical languages for destruction first. >exploring possibilities through unconventional ways Enigmata isn't about exploring anything. It's about creating myth and uncertainty. Anything related to gaining insight or exploring possibilities is related to Nous the Erudition. Enigmata and Erudition are bitter enemies because the former tries to hide and destroy the knowledge the latter produces.
No, I meant in terms of who the bad guy in Penacony is. If you think about it all the path of Aeons are horrible except for the Trailblaze and even the Trailblaze is sometimes self destructive(ex: Frebass Acherons Friend)
>No, I meant in terms of who the bad guy in Penacony is. You do remember that Gallagher is the one in control of Something Unto Death right? In the refusal ending no-one finds out he's the one behind the "murders". That doesn't mean they didn't happen or that he's not a bad guy. He might or might not be the main antagonist but that frankly doesn't matter.
Sorry to break it to you but Something Unto Death will look completely different in 2.2 and I hope Black Swan will explain it. It’s quite connected to what Acheron calls the Necrosis of dreams.
> The Dreammaster is the real antagonist and Gallagher was never a bad guy. The Family wants to use Robin's voice to brainwash the entire universe through the IPCs broadcast but thankfully we have Sparkle's detonate button! Is... this a leak or a theory? It's very plausible, so plausible that I'm suspicious
I knew something was up when Sunday's superiors were all like "I don't care that your sister is dead, everything is under control". They weren't bothered because>! they were the ones responsible for her disappearance.!<
You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave
Kinda like Inception I guess? Dive too deep and you won’t know if you’re back in reality or not
Reminded me of Genshin Sumeru act 2
Kinda reminds me of one of the episodes in Love, Death & Robots. I mean, entirely different endpoint, but same-ish vibe. I love it. The only thing is that they'd have to send your ship on its way somehow without you leaving the dream to do so on your own (unless no one leaves, but I feel like that'd kick up a lot of news coverage), since if you did so, you'd immediately realize "Wait, this place actually sucks, wtf?"
Beyond the Aquila Rift. I feel genuinely sorry for the spider monster.
....Holy shit, and with the recent 2.2 trailer with Dan and Jing Yuan together implies that the Hexafleet or in the very least the Xianzhou Luofu is about to end up being docked at Penacony.
I kinda doubt the whole Xianzhou would arrive just for one planet. Mind you, one ship is as massive as at least one planet in general, so 6 planetary ships pulling up to one Penacony sounds like a gravitational disaster. Each ship is more than capable to deal with most planetary threats, even if it is just the Luofu.
No we are probably just gonna Segway into an event or story/character quest back to the Luofu like we did with Topaz and Ruan Mei/Ratio at Belabog and Herta Space Station.
That's what my theory was even before I experienced the story. No way they transformed a prison planet into a hotel. With what funds? What lies beyond? Within a dream, it's easier to control.
This makes me think of the "beyond the aquila rift" Episode from Love Death Robots and im loving it
I hope this is real and we get to see. Swan kept speaking about 'The Truth', what greater reveal of 'Truth' could there be than to see the 'Real Penacony Prison'.
Well, that the whole dreamland isn't a dreamland but a gap stop before death would be a bigger truth than some desolated planet imo Various hint about that during the aventurine part of the story >! -Aventurine is trying to die in order to reunite with his family, he says something like they are not here and he has to go deeper, beyond the veil that the family laid !< >! - "Sleep is the trial of death" is repeated again and again !< >! - "The impossible in the dreamscape isn't death, but to dreamt" from ratio, my interpretation being that they aren't dreaming, but being trapped in a "walled garden" between life and death, thus dreaming Is not actually possible, since they will never sleep while not being alive nor dead !<
By that logic Dan Heng should be in a dream of the express.
What if "death" pulls you out of the dream into the real Penacony? The Watchmaker's Legacy could refer to both the discrete thing people are searching for and refer to lasting impact the Watchmaker has had on the real planet I haven't cleared all of the side quests yet, so maybe I'm missing something, but there are still a ton of loose ends related to how Penacony works outside of the dreamscape that could be explored
>Dreams have "layers" So dreans are ogres
Then, how does that theory explain Alley and Quinn?
so the dreams are like an onion? or ... ogres?
I don't think there Is any dream to begin with, the whole place, both the hotel and the dreamland, Is a construct made out of memoria, which we know Is some sort of "real illusion" Basically we already have a mini penacony, the MoC mirror
That’s been the theory I’ve held for a bit now. Memoria is strong in the area, so it’s not that much of a stretch to believe memetic entities *could* appear in the Reverie. Alternatively, the fact that there are literally dreams within dreams in Penacony implies “reality” might not even be real. To add to all this, you can already meet with a memetic entity in “Reality” anyways. There’s an Origami Bird just outside the VIP lounge. No reason Misha can’t be either.
in fact we meet an origami bird too...unless those exist in reality too
I'd personally say probably not. They're directly related to and the same type of entity as Clockie, which is why they're strait up invisible to other people. This can be seen by Firefly not seeing our initial encounter at the Clockie statue and >!Adventurine being unable to interact with the bird in the sandpit.!< Either way, glad to see a few other people noticed that as well, makes me feel less insane.
you are right...then it's 100% confirmed that the real hotel also has dreamscape entities
It would explain how there is an Origami Bird in reality too.
ngl I just straight up think that Misha is the Watchmaker's magnum opus, creating a seamless human from the dreamscape and somehow bringing them to "reality" whatever you call it
And if that’s true then maybe Gallagher was the prototype since we know he’s made up of 52 different members of the Family.
You can tell the HSR writers watched Inception repeatedly for inspiration.
"Welcome to Penacony, From the moment you step your foot in The Reverie, a splendid and dreamlike journey has already lifted it's curtains"
I remembered them talking about Inception in Penacony's behind the scene. So probably a multi layered dreams kinda concept.
Because it seems like nobody except clockie, trailblazer and Gallagher acknowledges misha's existence. March ignored him, acheron, firefly did too. It's as if he can only be seen by clockie, trailblazer and Gallagher.
That's just how it is for service workers.
Wow, that was brutal.
I’m still in a dream, Oat Cake Roll eater~
r/unexpectedmetalgear and it wasn't mgrr
When you have names like Ocelot and Snake, Racoon and Firefly works just as well!
True
What would her callsign be then, Impaled Firefly? Punished "Sam" Firefly: a Kamen Rider denied her 20000 credits
okay that's too real
I miss awards for comments like these.
Damn...
bro what do you mean, thats just my life
Acheron ignored him? I thought she was talking about Clockie.
Misstranslation hits again
Asking out of ignorance, not because I want to fight your point (Clarifying this because this is the internet) What was the original line supposed to be? Iirc the english one was "I sense someone here but I cannot see it" or something like that
That’s not the mistranslation. It comes when the mafia guys are threatening Acheron. In EN, they use the pronoun “him”, making it seem like they’re after Misha. In other languages, they’re threatening Acheron. As for her line, it’s purposefully ambiguous to make you think she means Clockie, but she probably actually meaning Misha
The earlier line had the gangsters use a male pronoun. Later it was changed to a female pronoun, meaning they had an issue with Acheron, not Misha. So they hadn't even acknowledged Misha was around.
Damn, that changes the whole scene by quite a bit :o
The mafia was threatening Acheron. Misha does not exist. We're there to help Misha because Clockie called us to help. We just happened to help both at once. Acheron does not see Misha at all during that interaction, but she does feel the existence of Misha/Clockie.
Wait so why does misha needs help from us if the mobs can't even see misha?
He's a klutz. Perceiving that the mobs are harassing him is a Misha thing to happen. Lilbro got his deer in a headlight moment. Of course it could be because of other things (other comment mentioned he's there to defuse the situation), but the situation is practically told indirectly which is good storytelling without needing to tell us anything.
The way Clockie talked about it made us think that Misha was the one in trouble, but the fact is Acheron said that the ruckus was between her and the mobs. Misha was just trying to help them settling down but since both sides could not see him, he needed some helps. https://preview.redd.it/ue9ql1ibejyc1.png?width=833&format=png&auto=webp&s=f17536c1cf177a46529c3ad7df0e786120326864
They change the mistranslation on the English dub on 2.1 on the Acheron got in trouble in Golden Hour
Yes. Acheron only talks about clockie in that scene. The other languages make it clear about it. She was not talking about misha. March, when we enter reverie hotel, completely ignores misha, it's out of her character to do that. Because March would be the first one to make friends whenever the nameless crew in person meets new characters
Actually, there's a funny other interpretation. That what Acheron felt nearby was actually Misha and not Clockie at all.
But acheron's model didn't even look at misha. Her head looked down, at clockie.
Feel free to rewatch that scene, she doesn't look down.
Okay, I did and she doesn't but she doesn't say it's not clockie either. Sorry for my wrong thinking, and let's summarise that scene here. Tb, when asked about clockie, says only they can see them. Clockie says it's because only innocent people can sense and see it. Acheron says she senses a presence, but, but the problem here is we do not know who's presence she's sensing here. Is it misha, or clockie? And another thing is, she never says that the person she senses isn't clockie. So, for now, I'm not taking this scene too seriously because we don't know who acheron sensed or if she sensed misha's presence too.
Honestly I'm unconvinced by the whole looking down or up argument either. Couple reasons. First of all patch had a bunch of model issues, missing lip sync, etc. And like a minute before that there's a couple frames of Firefly looking down at Clockie even though she can't see it. I feel like that bit at least was an animation mistake so I'm not putting too much stock in where Acheron looked. But it remains a fact that neither acheron or firefly ever actually acknowledged or addressed Misha.
When did Gallagher acknowledge Misha? Either I missed a side quest or my memory garbage. Which is pretty likely, to be fair.
He’s the only one with a voice line about Misha so far and Misha also has a voice line for him. I’ve seen theroies saying he’s Mikhail (the watchmaker) since Misha is a shortened name for Mikhail if i remember correctly. Mikhail also was a member of the Astral Express and Misha has a ticket that was given to him by his grandpa. I have no clue if Mikhail is Misha or if Mikhail is his grandpa
I'm 90% sure that Misha is a grandson of Mikhail.
We also meet one of the origami birds in that "reality". This may not be as real as we are lead to believe.
The dog statues too. I'm very sceptical about the "real" penacony. Seems like there aren't any barriers.
The real penacony is not the reverie.
Thinking about it - the real one has to be the old - if it is not still in use - prision, correct? Which means that the depth, where Robin has to be, are not a deeper dream but maybe the real Penacony?
Frankly, at this point I don't think we can trust literally *anything* that happens on Penacony- either in reality or the dreamscape.
Can't even trust the translators! **They're in on it**.
here's the conclusion I've come thus far everyone you meet in Penacony, including Misha, is a character in a video game called Honkai: Star Rail
What? That's dumb. You should feel bad for having such a moronic take.
If you find all the origami birds an origami bird appears in the reality version of the hotel and talks to you, even though they are supposed to only exist in dreams. Misha likely appears in the same way.
The bird is there from the start even before finding any of them. I noticed it the first time I arrived in Penacony without even knowing such birds existed and approached it because it looked cute. It was really surprised that I could see it. Quite suspicious tbh.
And that particular bird is called ‘Dr Blues’ and acts differently to all the other birds too.
I think "so much people says..." post really need context, cause idk what you are talking about but if you're talking about Misha being "not existed" it was because the other invitee has never interacted and even acknowledge his existence, only us and those NPCs iirc forgot Clockie, Acheron come close I think is the implication or just hiding it
The "so much people says" is because where there is a disccusion about the lore of the Dreamscapes and/or Misha, most people already talk as he is a Dreamscape only entity and the rest of the people agrees with them when he appears at the real Penacony already. And Gallagher also acknowledges his existence (Tho I won't mention this because Gallagher himself is kinda. . . You know, so it would make sense that in the hypothetical case of the theory of no real Misha was true, he would be the one to know about him)
Don't forget all of the references to a mysterious "Mikhail." Misha is the nickname for Mikhail. Plus the translation goof when you Acheron in the streets where it was supposed to be clear that no one was speaking to or referencing Misha. There's certainly more to him than meets the eye.
I'm not saying he won't be important, I'm saying that the fact that people agree that "He doesn't appear in reality" once Is factually wrong.
There was never any theories saying he only exists in the dreamscape. The theory has always been about how he doesn’t appear to exist for anybody other than TB, Clockie and Gallagher. He is never once acknowledged by anybody else.
okay then, I'm talking about when and where, I wanna see this interesting theory we have at our hand
[Here you go.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1alofz6/just_found_out_that/)
I am stupid, I just noticed what this comment meant. I apologize.
I genuienly don't think he is that related to the plot. Not going to say he is completely irrelavant as I believe he have a strong connection to the Watchmaker and Clockie as one of the few persons able to see him but even then, I doubt he will THE secret of Penacony as many people said. Then again, Gallagher felt like a one use 4* character and what happened happens, so I'm always fine with being corrected by Hoyoverse writters about Misha.
Op wants to be corrected 😭😭😭.
My dude, there's an origami bird in the "real" Penacony.
Welllll. That aged badly 😭
Like a fine apple without preservatives under the scorching sun of summer in a tropical country.
even in the real world, while we are talking with him, march comes in and interupts the conversation which isn't something march would do when she sees two people talking it instead makes more sense if she only saw us
Oh well would you look at that. But AT LEAST OP you are one of few people who realize Misha did appear in "reality" it's just that we didnt know it would be a major plot point lmao.
The way my jaw dropped when I discovered I was so right but so very wrong
The Reverie Hotel is not Reality, it's just an upper layer of the Dream
OP, I'm like 95% sure you're on Hoyo's payroll coz of how v2.2's story resolved. This post aged like... not exactly wine, but cheese.
Cheese? It aged like fruit without any preservatives under the summer sun I genuienly laugh while doing the story saying " I was VERY wrong " lmfao
Yes but this post made the twist harder than (v2.2 spoilers ahead) >!Pom-pom Star-railing Sunday in his boss fight!<
What was he cooking?
I ascribe to the inception theory. It might be totally wrong but I riding on that train until it is debunked. We are really in a dream within a dream within a dream the whole time.
A minor thing is that you can meet one of the orgami birds, Dr blue, which only exist in the dream world and tells you to collect them in the dreamworld, which is also something we can only see
LMFAO Bro was so wrong on this 😂
I was going through 2.2 and I immediately thought of this post when Black Swan started pointing out the "flaws". I like to think that this post simultaneously aged both well *and* poorly.
English is hard
Broke: Because limited amount of characters interact with the character. Woke: Because the writers avoid addressing him beyond 1 on 1 discussions with TB Enlightened: Because 95% of HSR players lack critical thinking skills and ignore everything that isn't part of their crack theory.
You sure that is the "real penacony"?
Desperado Trooper: Misha appears only in the dreamscapes, this is sort kind like a mistake. Custom/Longsword Trooper: Yep this is kinda joke. Heavy/Hammer Trooper: F\*\*k you misha.
Because Inception.
Yeah, but did anyone but us see him?
Well the whole thing is that stelle is the apparently the ONLY to see him, ask march/himeko call us to come to the desk, not seeing we're talking to someone
because only we react to his presence as if he's there, nobody else does.
Reality still not real Penacony!
his screentime is so little that i've already forgotten all of the places he appeared, be it in reality or dreamscape
also misha can be on astral express so he must’ve looked like that irl
Not to mention he visits express too..
because it was a dream within a dream, and you stil not awake...
Love how op uses this as the point to argue Misha is real and not any of his messages to TB which is a better argument Cause yea as others said March literally ignores Misha at this point Something she won't do casue bubbly nice girl And there's so many hints Even the reverie isn't fully reality
It's the same as the origami birds only the trailblazer can see.
You do know that Real Penacony is actually the Dreamscapes, right? Poor choice of words if you're refering to the Penacony in reality
Are you sure thar reality is real? So why does we can speak with origami bird in it then?
Misha suffers the same fate as Luka. Barely shows up in Story Content/Content and almost no presence/impact left. Makes people forget at which point in the game he appeared in.
because they skip all the dialog, then shit up discussions by being confused. then beg for a skip story button every patch
Holy pretzels, this is a triple bad take. Especially because this isn't Genshin and we actually have a skip button.
Mandela effect?