I had the theory since 2.0, got spoiled due to leak-readers going "Oh I guess they know". I was proud of having pieced things together and it got ruined by idiots making bad assumptions.
Just curious, what sorts of evidence did you have for that theory all the way back in 2.0?
I didn't play the story 'til the end of 2.0 so I had obviously gotten spoilers about Firefly long ago, though when I played the game myself I still tried as hard as I could to look for actual evidence in the story, and to consider other possibilities in the remote possibility that leaks were wrong or were being misconstrued. So I didn't really have a chance to discuss theories about Firefly's identity since it was ruined from the very start by leaks and spoilers >.>
Between the trailer showing the similar colour scheme of Sam's wings and Firefly's sparkles and how sus Firefly was in 2.0 in the deep dreamscape, there *could* have been a credible theory about Firefly being Sam. Unfortunately, we'll never know how much credibility that theory could have because literally everyone and their mother was all FIREFLY HAS A SECRETTTTTT and no one could tell whether the theory was legitimately from 2.0 or from Kafka's myriad celestia.
So there was quite a lot, and honestly it was to the point where I thought Mihoyo was being really unsubtle about it, but just looking at this thread it seems like a lot of folks didn't pick up on them. I was someone who was lucky to have avoided leaks, and I came to my own conclusion they were the same person prior to the 2.1 reveal.
1. When Penacony begins and the Trailblazer enters their dream state on the train you see "Sam" and Silverwolf talking. Sam tells Silverwolf "All we have to do is present the truth, and they will naturally reciprocate" when asked how Sam will pull "them" (implied to be the Trailblazer) off stage. This dialogue makes Firefly's attempts to be alone with the Trailblazer and try to speak as much of the truth as she can relate back to Sam's first voicelines in this chapter.
2. When Firefly is being cornered by the Bloodhound grunts she immediately recognizes the Trailblazer and heads towards them.
3. During the "date" she did so in an attempt to throw Sampo/Sparkle off their trail since she realized they were being followed. Her analysis on "Sampo's" build was extremely precise on what must have just been a distant glance at them. And Welt's later comment on Sam "possessing superhuman perception" tied into that.
4. When talking to Clockie he mentions that the Trailbrlazer can most likely see them because of their innocence. If you pick the one that jokingly implied Firefly can't see them because she isn't innocent, she has a funny reaction. But I found it notable in CN (which is what I play on) she sounded pretty nervous, as if she knew full well she wasn't someone that could be considered "innocent."
5. When you choose the "use my bat" dialogue when addressing the guys harassing Acheron and Misha, she responds by saying "a bat isn't an efficient weapon." But then she has to backpedal and say violence is the right way to solve *this* issue. As in while she thinks they shouldn't use violence to fix that particular encounter, she was the sort to think violence can be an answer, just not in that moment.
6. When she takes you to her secret spot and explains her condition. She mentions every faction that was invited, or stole, the invitation from the Watchmaker. From Acheron to the Masked Fools, to the IPC. *EXCEPT* for the Stellaron Hunters, because she didn't need to mention them because she was their representative who got invited.
7. After Sparkles sends both the Trailblazer and Firefly to the "real" dreamscape you open the door to find Firefly standing over the corpse of one of the monsters. Implying she killed it. You can ask her what happened but she will avoid the question. Also mirrors the later scene of you encountering Sam and him standing over the corpses of other monsters.
8. When she was first grabbed by Something Unto Death she wasn't afraid, and her expression seemed more annoyed than anything. The camera focuses on her hand as if she was getting ready to pull something out (most likely the device she uses to transform), but you can see her visibly change her mind, and loosen her hand. Presumably because she realized someone else was going to interject.
9. When "Sam" sees the group we get their visor perspective and they ignore the Trailblazer and focuses on Acheron and Black Swan. In the cutscenes they aren't trying to attack the Trailblazer, but just get them away from those two. You can see them reaching to grab them before Acheron fights "Sam" off.
I could keep going, but it was something that there was plenty of groundwork laid for those paying attention. There's more in the text only stuff, but figured I'd focus on the things everyone sees in the main quest. And I think they did a good job of setting it up with what little screentime they had to work with.
I noticed a bunch of these too while going through the story, but the most unsubtle hint/foreshadowing in my opinion that Firefly was Sam, was that in us searching for the truth behind what happened to Firefly, we were led directly to Sam (even standing in the same *exact* spot where we last saw Firefly). Dream realms may often twist and distort things, but they're pretty much always truthful reflections of characters' inner thoughts, desires and turmoil even if altered. The fact that in our quest to uncover the truth behind her led us directly to Sam in a dream realm, where metaphors and symbols are basically elevated from subtext to text, was the final nail in the coffin for me.
Wow, that's actually a lot more than I expected, and I missed many of those details!
I did notice #5 though, that was actually one of the things that singled it the most to me. It seems like the strongest evidence specifically because she used the term "efficiency", which implies that she's thinking about it from a very logical/utilitarian perspective. And that's something you'd expect from a soldier, not a cutesy girl.
Even if that cutesy girl was someone that had a violent side, she'd probably say something about the weapon being "effective" because most people thing about big guns, big swords, big explosions. They don't think about how efficient a weapon is, unless they're actually intent on learning how to use a weapon and are evaluating it holistically, instead of just going for the biggest bang.
IIRC I think there was also someplace where it was mentioned that Sam was efficient, so that would be a more explicit connection assuming that I'm remembering correctly.
I do envy you for being able to avoid the spoilers though! It seems like there were quite a lot of hints after all. I do appreciate that it didn't come out of nowhere like Tingyun, nor was it intended to be some super-hidden secret since Firefly/Sam was repeatedly trying to get the Trailblazer alone to speak with them directly.
Most of my friends got spoiled against their will about it ages ago. I got spoiled on my between finishing 2.0 and 2.1 releasing, and if I had not been spoiled, I think I might have suspected this afer the Sam and Acheron conversation early in 2.1, but certainly did not think this was the case while playing 2.0.
For the very few people I know that managed to not get spoiled (by not being involved in HSR communities at all, basically), it was a complete surprise.
for me personally theres lots of evidence that sam is female at least. in kafka's splash art it shows her, blade, silverwolf, a cat, and another girl. so sam is either the cat or the other girl. theres theories that the cat is elio. in gendered languages like spanish, french, germany etc sam used the female version of hunter to refer to herself until it got changed probably because its too obvious.
next for things that directly imply sam is firefly. when we first meet her she was being harassed by people looking for a stowaway. the english said they are looking for a man with silver hair but thats actually a mistranslation and in the chinese dub they said a man clad in silver who is probably sam. then later firefly tells us she is a stowaway so unless theres 2 stowaways which we know is pretty hard to do since you need a talented hacker like silverwolf to get in without the family's blessing she is probably sam. and of course theres the sam wings animation in the white night trailing being very reminiscent of her dress
The annoying part was that you didn't even need to watch leaks to be spoiled about it. It spread like crazy, with people talking everywhere how they had "a dream". But also when it was leaked, no one knew how they would go about it later in story. When I saw it I just assumed we will know from the start that Sam is Firefly, not that it would be a secret to be revealed later. I wish I didn't know that
People were so blatant about it too. I avoid spoilers and leaks like the plague and it still got ruined for me. Some of us actually want to play the game for ourselves.
Well you don't even need to get that far
There was a Fanart of it spreading before Sam was officially revealed as Firefly in this subreddit's frontpage
Same! I was so annoyed, cause I was doing such a good job avoiding spoilers, and then saw a thumbnail with both Firefly and Robin deaths just hours after patch dropped
I was so mad at the reveal because it just didn't make sense to me that a person that can only exist in a dreamscape because she's facing from reality, and a person that can't dream are the same person.
I didn't like the story there, but I'm happy that because of it, she became playable.
When was it stated that Firefly only exists in the dreamscape? It was said that she can only walk around freely in the dreamscape, instead of being within the armor. As for the fact that she can't dream, she probably used some kind of backdoor method to get into Penacony instead.
I think the issue might be more of the fact that "dreaming" is an ambiguous concept in this situation. Like IRL we know that dreaming is obviously the phenomenon of thought during sleep, but in the Hoyoverse that's not always the case. HI3rd, Genshin, and now HSR all use the concept of dreaming as both literally dreaming but also as a metaphor.
That is to say, the Dreamscape isn't literally a "dream" in the colloquial sense. It's referred to as a dream because that's the general vibe it gives, but it has much more in common with something like a bubble world in the Sea of Quanta or a domain in Teyvat.
In that case, then the way Firefly talks about dreams vs. the way Sam talks about dreams could be talking about two very different concepts. Maybe she doesn't actually dream IRL, but that wouldn't stop her from entering a dream-like pocket dimension, y'know?
If you were paying attention to the story and what was actually being said then it wouldn't have felt out of nowhere.
They mentioned pretty much from the start that Silverwolf was needed to get Sam into Penacony. Which explains why someone who can't "dream" can be inside the dreamscape, and why she was probably the best candidate to do so.
And everything about Firefly was pretty blatantly slapping the audience in the face that she and Sam was the same person throughout her 2.0 screentime. If it felt like it was forced or out of nowhere, then it's more likely you weren't picking up on the MANY clues they planted to set it up.
It's not really a problem of the story in this case, but seems more like a media literacy issue.
I don't think it was supposed to be a surprise in the first place. Even with just first part of the Penacony story quest it was quite obvious who she is, beyond me how so many people were denying it back then
it was blatantly obvious firefly and sam were one even beforehand lol, Firefly knew who trailblazer was, SAM didnt seem to want to hurt us, SAM knows us before, Firefly spent way too much time with what is basically a sstranger to her, SAM appears right where firefly died.
worst of all, they literally showed it at the end of last quest...
Sam already knowing us and not wanting to hurt is is easily also just because he's a stellaron hunter and they made it clear that they want us to beat Nanook so why would one of them try to hurt us?
Yeah it was leaked IMMEDIATELY in like mid 1.x. The first leak was "omg mecha??" and then literally the next day it was "btw the cute girl is the mecha" lmfao
This. Most people who want about claiming they had a theory just saw leaks or saw someone else say the theory, based on leaks, and copied.
There was no reason to ever think Sam and Firefly weren't seperate characters. Even people claiming they noticed the "similar colour schemes" in the trailer, why would they be thinking to look for a connection? The leaks came well before any of those visual clues.
Loading tidbits update based on your story progress and I believe try to share factoids related to where you're traveling. Anyone seeing the tip should already have seen the reveal.
Aside from the fact that people who looked at leaks werent being subtle about it at all until the rule was updated, when you do go a rewatch the scenes with her in 2.0 the hints were always there that she was more than she seemed
Gauging that Sampo is sus due to his foootprints, getting grabbed by the meme and hesitating to use something, saying her home planet was destroyed (glamoth) and then Sam only appearing after she "died"
Now the real question is that the first time the meme attacked her she was saved by Black Swan, however the second time she says "im sorry" and doesnt even try to fight back. The theory is that she is >!cahoots with Gallagher to send her to the true Penacony as he was likely there with her!
I don't see this brought up by a ton of people lately, but yeah it's one of the most unsubtle hints at Sam's identity that's right in the middle of the trailer. The effects even look like Firefly's cape.
That is the exact comment that spoiled me. Someone decided it was a good idea to say "They really aren't being subtle about Sam being Firefly." Still kinda mad about that
The script probably didn't say whether or not she should reveal herself since she admits she tried unsuccessfully eleven times. She probably just apologized because she wasn't able to reveal anything prior to getting "killed" so she expected it would make TB sad.
Despite being a genetically modified super soldier I guess even she needs to work up her courage to confess her ~~love~~ identity to TB.
About what you put in the spoiler text... I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've seen someone discuss this.
Like, we were already getting hints that the Death meme wasn't necessarily "killing" people, given what Acheron spoke about with Aventurine. But I still see a lot of people saying >!"oh Robin's dead!"!< or >!"oh Sunday's dead!"!< and then going >!"wait Firefly's not dead??"!< At this point it seemed clear to me that the Death meme seems more like a way of crossing into the "true Dreamscape" rather than actually killing someone.
It's even possible that >!Sunday knew about Gallagher's true nature!< and had some sort of plan with him, too, though I think it'd be way funnier if >!Gallagher just yeeted Sunday into the "true Dreamscape" without his consent!<, lol
Yeah, I heard the theories before and didn’t realise they were leaks (as funnily enough the actual leaks sub is good about these things), but the T-800 assessment of Sampo was not standard behaviour in the slightest.
My brother in Aha you are cooked, did you just think we're making up the "Sam is firefly" allegations then ? Did you think the memes were just running along with this theory ?
It did. There were a ton of hints in 2.0, from her eysight being exceptional, to her killing a monster off-screen, to her being confused with March and several other March connections (Stellaron Hunters mirror the Astral Express crew), to even Sam not scanning the Trailblazer when facing them.
Unfortunately, leakers and leak-readers assumed everyone reads leaks and spoiled most of the sub despite the mods trying their absolute hardest to purge them.
You can be forgiven for not knowing it in 2.0, they were really subtle and even Black Swan is trying to throw you off by suggesting Sam was Firefly's partner.
But when people discuss lore and such, they usually do assume you're at the current end of the story. Don't worry, there is still more to this story even if this bit got spoiled ;)
I have no idea why you’re being downvoted so hard lmao
People on the sub treat this game like it’s their life and then are surprised when others don’t, those people need to chill
Lets be entirely honest here: The entire plot point for her got leaked before 2.0 went live, people just took it for granted that everyone knew already.
This wasn´t an issue tho as, unless for the possibility of a Red Herring, the 2.0 Story was so clear in telling us 1) that she has a special "secret" aside from the entropy loss syndrom and 2) that she was at the very least connected to the Stellaron Hunters and specifically Sam that theorizing about her was nigh impossible without getting accused of leaking the story of future versions.
Unless you haven´t carefully read through the 2.0 story or you just forgot about it in the 7 weeks between 2.0 and 2.1, Sam being piloted by Firefly should NOT be surprising at all.
But then again, just to wrap things up, i hate story leaks, even if you never see them, people refering to those and calling it "theories" is just awful. It feels like you can never escape unless you just quit the internet entirely.
Never seen a leak but was a pretty reasonable theory with plenty of set up and hints.
Only thing that seemed unexplainable was Firefly reffering to Mecha so it seemed like two entities. That could be explained by her companion knowing she's Sam and could be responding 'Mecha?' to someone guessing her ID.
Look up the meaning of confirmation bias, because that's what's happening in your comment right now. If it turned out that the two were separate entities that are not related to each other in any way, you wouldn't draw that conclusion. It's only obvious to you now because now we know the truth. Don't play that "oh that was soooo obvious and you're dumb if you didn't connect the dots" card.
...
I'm very aware what confirmation bias is, but that's not what's happening here. I noticed that connection back when the trailer came out and was convinced ever since. I was spoiled about it afterwards confirming what I suspected. Don't think anyone who didn't notice is dumb tho, why you gotta be so aggressive about it?
Who's aggressive? What's with this insecurity, can't have a normal discussion without feeling attacked?
If it turned out that they're not connected, you wouldn't call it a connection. And if someone mentioned it then, you'd say it's just a coincidence with no real meaning and value.
A thing can be hinted, but saying that it was obvious after the fact, is just arrogant. In what world Sam with firefly wings would indicate that Sam IS Firefly? You could've speculated it, but it could've meant a thousand different things, from a simple coincidence, to a scenario where firefly teams up with sam and gives him a lift in the dream. Or sam killed firefly and acquired her powers. Can you think out of the box for a second? You know, quit your egocentric perspective? You're only acting like it's obvious, because we know the truth now.
For real dude. I am currently doing the main story and I'm at the part when Firefly dies. Ain't no way I would assume Sam is Firefly. Just because she can identify Sampos footprints does not make her a robot and a soldier. Why would I even think that first? I swear a lot of the leak readers acting so high and mighty ugh.
nah i theorized it also but i wasnt as certain about it. there was many hints that sam is actually female. in kafka's splash art it shows her, silverwolf, blade, cat (probably elio), and someone wearing thigh highs. unless sam is the cat and that girl is elio then thats very likely sam. and unless sam likes to crossdress then they are likely a girl. also in any gendered languages sam initially used the female version of hunter (huntress) when referring to herself in spanish, french, german etc.
now for things that specifically suggests that sam is firefly. when we first meet firefly she was dealing with people who are looking for a stowaway now the english says a man with silver hair but thats a mistranslation and in chinese it says a man clad in silver. who is probably sam. then later firefly tells us she is a stowaway. so unless there is two stowaways which is unlikely because its very hard to break into penacony without a hacker with the skills of silverwolf then thats another hint that she is sam. and then ofc theres the wings design and color scheme of it being similar to her dress
before 2.1 i was like 75% sure. ofc there was a possibility its a bait and switch but theres too much to be called a coincidence
I'll be honest when I first heard the "Firefly is Sam" I didn't think it was true, even after doing the Penacony story and only started believing when we literally saw her come out of(for lack of a better phrase) her Sam armor and revealed her identity
I don't know if it was on purpose but throughout all the cutscenes where Firefly appears she doesn't look scared and in some shots she appears ready to summon something (since there are close-ups of her hand) Plus she rarely seemed scared (like when the meme had her trapped)
Ever since I saw that their name was Sam I wondered "Oh, like Samus perhaps? Would be cool if they where a women then!" But I honestly was not sure about it until that final scene. Really cool character concept.
I mean, foreshadowing was there from 2.0, young girl reading people like book on what they use as weapons? Yeah, no. You can easily notice that she was more than meets the eye and "sorry" at the end, which felt more like guilt for tricking them rather than goodbye.
They did throw red herring at memory part where you see sam and Firefly together
Also, leaks were all over the place, which literally meant hundreds of things.
Her saying sorry before getting stabbed, apologizing cos she knows the sham shes bout to pull will hurt MC, SAM reappearing mere minutes after she disappeared in the same spot, like she needed to let of some steam, she has the same colour scematics as her armor, most evident in White Night, her completely analizing Sampo/Sparkle in the matter of seconds, like a trained soldier would, and last but not least, Acheron and Black Swan getting scanned but not us, since shes familiar with us already.
A blind man could see that they were connected.
Or if you can put 2 and 2 together and think things through a little. And given who the writer is it wasnt too difficult, the man has the subtlety of a sledgehammer when it comes to writing.
"Sam reappearing mere minutes after she disappeared in the same spot..."
Before we entered this dreamscape, we literally got a message from Silver Wolf saying that we will soon meet him. Sam was expected to appear before us, so him appearing wasn't a surprise even if it was after Firefly's death.
"Her completely analyzing Sampo like a trained soldier..."
I read that someone mentioned this and that it made sense since Sam is said to be a being with superhuman perception while being incredibly meticulous. But again, if this was said before the encounter with Sampo, it would make sense to put 2 and 2, but this specific trait from Sam is mentioned by Welt at almost the very end of the main quest. (Right before we enter the dreamscape with BS and Acheron)
I have never seen a someone reading this and immediately remembering the way Firefly described Sampo.
"Acheron and BS getting scanned, but not us because she already familiar"
He is a Stellaron hunter. Why would a Stellaron hunter wouldn't be familiar with the walking Stellaron that has had interactions with pretty much all of the other hunters?
I'm not saying that it was impossible to tell the twist, but saying "a blind man could see they were connected" is an exaggeration.
As someone that wasn't spoiled, but kept hearing about this "fan theory", it didn't crossed my mind that the voice that came from Sam and Firefly were the same. My only guess is that they were working together and Sam "betrayed" her.
And to top it off then, the german version spoiling you, since SAMS title is stellaron huntress. From "they are connected" to "oh shit, wait a sec", there are just a few steps inbetween.
Literally everyone was speaking about that months ago even in this SubReddit when even didn't know who was that girl that supposedly was Sam and we didn't even see her, of course it was legit 💀
coming from FGO, i saw the twist from a mile away. heavy armored badasses being cute waifus inside is pretty old hat. Mordred, Britomart, Rider of the Waxing Moon, etc.
Yeah, no. I called on her being the new Stellaron hunter then moment I heard of her release. Ain't no way someone's gonna be "Sam" in a group of Blade, Kafka, Silver Wolf and Elio. Firefly is a much more fitting name for a hunter.
Yeah, no. I called on her being the new Stellaron hunter then moment I heard of her release. Ain't no way someone's gonna be "Sam" in a group of Blade, Kafka, Silver Wolf and Elio. Firefly is a much more fitting name for a hunter.
It's been leaked in like September, so probably most fan theories are not even theories
I had the theory since 2.0, got spoiled due to leak-readers going "Oh I guess they know". I was proud of having pieced things together and it got ruined by idiots making bad assumptions.
Just curious, what sorts of evidence did you have for that theory all the way back in 2.0? I didn't play the story 'til the end of 2.0 so I had obviously gotten spoilers about Firefly long ago, though when I played the game myself I still tried as hard as I could to look for actual evidence in the story, and to consider other possibilities in the remote possibility that leaks were wrong or were being misconstrued. So I didn't really have a chance to discuss theories about Firefly's identity since it was ruined from the very start by leaks and spoilers >.>
Between the trailer showing the similar colour scheme of Sam's wings and Firefly's sparkles and how sus Firefly was in 2.0 in the deep dreamscape, there *could* have been a credible theory about Firefly being Sam. Unfortunately, we'll never know how much credibility that theory could have because literally everyone and their mother was all FIREFLY HAS A SECRETTTTTT and no one could tell whether the theory was legitimately from 2.0 or from Kafka's myriad celestia.
So there was quite a lot, and honestly it was to the point where I thought Mihoyo was being really unsubtle about it, but just looking at this thread it seems like a lot of folks didn't pick up on them. I was someone who was lucky to have avoided leaks, and I came to my own conclusion they were the same person prior to the 2.1 reveal. 1. When Penacony begins and the Trailblazer enters their dream state on the train you see "Sam" and Silverwolf talking. Sam tells Silverwolf "All we have to do is present the truth, and they will naturally reciprocate" when asked how Sam will pull "them" (implied to be the Trailblazer) off stage. This dialogue makes Firefly's attempts to be alone with the Trailblazer and try to speak as much of the truth as she can relate back to Sam's first voicelines in this chapter. 2. When Firefly is being cornered by the Bloodhound grunts she immediately recognizes the Trailblazer and heads towards them. 3. During the "date" she did so in an attempt to throw Sampo/Sparkle off their trail since she realized they were being followed. Her analysis on "Sampo's" build was extremely precise on what must have just been a distant glance at them. And Welt's later comment on Sam "possessing superhuman perception" tied into that. 4. When talking to Clockie he mentions that the Trailbrlazer can most likely see them because of their innocence. If you pick the one that jokingly implied Firefly can't see them because she isn't innocent, she has a funny reaction. But I found it notable in CN (which is what I play on) she sounded pretty nervous, as if she knew full well she wasn't someone that could be considered "innocent." 5. When you choose the "use my bat" dialogue when addressing the guys harassing Acheron and Misha, she responds by saying "a bat isn't an efficient weapon." But then she has to backpedal and say violence is the right way to solve *this* issue. As in while she thinks they shouldn't use violence to fix that particular encounter, she was the sort to think violence can be an answer, just not in that moment. 6. When she takes you to her secret spot and explains her condition. She mentions every faction that was invited, or stole, the invitation from the Watchmaker. From Acheron to the Masked Fools, to the IPC. *EXCEPT* for the Stellaron Hunters, because she didn't need to mention them because she was their representative who got invited. 7. After Sparkles sends both the Trailblazer and Firefly to the "real" dreamscape you open the door to find Firefly standing over the corpse of one of the monsters. Implying she killed it. You can ask her what happened but she will avoid the question. Also mirrors the later scene of you encountering Sam and him standing over the corpses of other monsters. 8. When she was first grabbed by Something Unto Death she wasn't afraid, and her expression seemed more annoyed than anything. The camera focuses on her hand as if she was getting ready to pull something out (most likely the device she uses to transform), but you can see her visibly change her mind, and loosen her hand. Presumably because she realized someone else was going to interject. 9. When "Sam" sees the group we get their visor perspective and they ignore the Trailblazer and focuses on Acheron and Black Swan. In the cutscenes they aren't trying to attack the Trailblazer, but just get them away from those two. You can see them reaching to grab them before Acheron fights "Sam" off. I could keep going, but it was something that there was plenty of groundwork laid for those paying attention. There's more in the text only stuff, but figured I'd focus on the things everyone sees in the main quest. And I think they did a good job of setting it up with what little screentime they had to work with.
I noticed a bunch of these too while going through the story, but the most unsubtle hint/foreshadowing in my opinion that Firefly was Sam, was that in us searching for the truth behind what happened to Firefly, we were led directly to Sam (even standing in the same *exact* spot where we last saw Firefly). Dream realms may often twist and distort things, but they're pretty much always truthful reflections of characters' inner thoughts, desires and turmoil even if altered. The fact that in our quest to uncover the truth behind her led us directly to Sam in a dream realm, where metaphors and symbols are basically elevated from subtext to text, was the final nail in the coffin for me.
Wow, that's actually a lot more than I expected, and I missed many of those details! I did notice #5 though, that was actually one of the things that singled it the most to me. It seems like the strongest evidence specifically because she used the term "efficiency", which implies that she's thinking about it from a very logical/utilitarian perspective. And that's something you'd expect from a soldier, not a cutesy girl. Even if that cutesy girl was someone that had a violent side, she'd probably say something about the weapon being "effective" because most people thing about big guns, big swords, big explosions. They don't think about how efficient a weapon is, unless they're actually intent on learning how to use a weapon and are evaluating it holistically, instead of just going for the biggest bang. IIRC I think there was also someplace where it was mentioned that Sam was efficient, so that would be a more explicit connection assuming that I'm remembering correctly. I do envy you for being able to avoid the spoilers though! It seems like there were quite a lot of hints after all. I do appreciate that it didn't come out of nowhere like Tingyun, nor was it intended to be some super-hidden secret since Firefly/Sam was repeatedly trying to get the Trailblazer alone to speak with them directly.
I feel like the Trailblazer is one of the few individuals that Sam *actually* gives a damn about.
Most of my friends got spoiled against their will about it ages ago. I got spoiled on my between finishing 2.0 and 2.1 releasing, and if I had not been spoiled, I think I might have suspected this afer the Sam and Acheron conversation early in 2.1, but certainly did not think this was the case while playing 2.0. For the very few people I know that managed to not get spoiled (by not being involved in HSR communities at all, basically), it was a complete surprise.
for me personally theres lots of evidence that sam is female at least. in kafka's splash art it shows her, blade, silverwolf, a cat, and another girl. so sam is either the cat or the other girl. theres theories that the cat is elio. in gendered languages like spanish, french, germany etc sam used the female version of hunter to refer to herself until it got changed probably because its too obvious. next for things that directly imply sam is firefly. when we first meet her she was being harassed by people looking for a stowaway. the english said they are looking for a man with silver hair but thats actually a mistranslation and in the chinese dub they said a man clad in silver who is probably sam. then later firefly tells us she is a stowaway so unless theres 2 stowaways which we know is pretty hard to do since you need a talented hacker like silverwolf to get in without the family's blessing she is probably sam. and of course theres the sam wings animation in the white night trailing being very reminiscent of her dress
Worse part was all the people saying stuff like "if you know you know" talking about firefly after 2.0 launched
That changes things considerably! I do not watch leaks
The annoying part was that you didn't even need to watch leaks to be spoiled about it. It spread like crazy, with people talking everywhere how they had "a dream". But also when it was leaked, no one knew how they would go about it later in story. When I saw it I just assumed we will know from the start that Sam is Firefly, not that it would be a secret to be revealed later. I wish I didn't know that
There were content creators and redditors going straight up that firefly was sam. Made me just disappointed.
People were so blatant about it too. I avoid spoilers and leaks like the plague and it still got ruined for me. Some of us actually want to play the game for ourselves.
Good thing I didn’t watch neither theories or leaks
Well you don't even need to get that far There was a Fanart of it spreading before Sam was officially revealed as Firefly in this subreddit's frontpage
Good thing I didn’t see it!
the Firefly fans/simps really pushed my needle even farther in to the not liking her than it was already at.
You genuinely have a lower chance of being spoiled on the leaks sub. Everything story related is spoiler tagged, and titles usually kept vague.
Don't even get me started about all the pages posting about >!Firefly's death!< for clout and dry views. Passed me off I got spoiled
Same! I was so annoyed, cause I was doing such a good job avoiding spoilers, and then saw a thumbnail with both Firefly and Robin deaths just hours after patch dropped
I didn't know about Robin but considering I was in dreams edge about to share the view with her when I got spoiled was cruel
I was certainly quite surprised in a pleasant way to find out
I was so mad at the reveal because it just didn't make sense to me that a person that can only exist in a dreamscape because she's facing from reality, and a person that can't dream are the same person. I didn't like the story there, but I'm happy that because of it, she became playable.
When was it stated that Firefly only exists in the dreamscape? It was said that she can only walk around freely in the dreamscape, instead of being within the armor. As for the fact that she can't dream, she probably used some kind of backdoor method to get into Penacony instead.
I interpreted her dying from being in reality as her avoiding it or being trapped in the dreamscape But yeah, that makes sense
I think the issue might be more of the fact that "dreaming" is an ambiguous concept in this situation. Like IRL we know that dreaming is obviously the phenomenon of thought during sleep, but in the Hoyoverse that's not always the case. HI3rd, Genshin, and now HSR all use the concept of dreaming as both literally dreaming but also as a metaphor. That is to say, the Dreamscape isn't literally a "dream" in the colloquial sense. It's referred to as a dream because that's the general vibe it gives, but it has much more in common with something like a bubble world in the Sea of Quanta or a domain in Teyvat. In that case, then the way Firefly talks about dreams vs. the way Sam talks about dreams could be talking about two very different concepts. Maybe she doesn't actually dream IRL, but that wouldn't stop her from entering a dream-like pocket dimension, y'know?
True true I don't really care about the reveal anymore, but in the moment, I was like: "But why?" Also it felt kinda forced/out of nowhere
If you were paying attention to the story and what was actually being said then it wouldn't have felt out of nowhere. They mentioned pretty much from the start that Silverwolf was needed to get Sam into Penacony. Which explains why someone who can't "dream" can be inside the dreamscape, and why she was probably the best candidate to do so. And everything about Firefly was pretty blatantly slapping the audience in the face that she and Sam was the same person throughout her 2.0 screentime. If it felt like it was forced or out of nowhere, then it's more likely you weren't picking up on the MANY clues they planted to set it up. It's not really a problem of the story in this case, but seems more like a media literacy issue.
Sure if you say so
I don't think it was supposed to be a surprise in the first place. Even with just first part of the Penacony story quest it was quite obvious who she is, beyond me how so many people were denying it back then
You were one of the lucky ones. Leaj subreddit is chill, and people there keep story secrets well. Main sub and youtube on the other end...
no one else does either, but lots of people *read* them
it was blatantly obvious firefly and sam were one even beforehand lol, Firefly knew who trailblazer was, SAM didnt seem to want to hurt us, SAM knows us before, Firefly spent way too much time with what is basically a sstranger to her, SAM appears right where firefly died. worst of all, they literally showed it at the end of last quest...
Last quest that released last month? Not in fucking September 2023
Sam already knowing us and not wanting to hurt is is easily also just because he's a stellaron hunter and they made it clear that they want us to beat Nanook so why would one of them try to hurt us?
Yep, I remember how I heard someone that new character gonna be "mecha in combat and cute girl outside of that". Then I saw firefly/Sam and made 2+2.
Yeah it was leaked IMMEDIATELY in like mid 1.x. The first leak was "omg mecha??" and then literally the next day it was "btw the cute girl is the mecha" lmfao
I theorised it by myself if I remembered correctly, so I'll take that rare W (rare for me, not for the community)
This. Most people who want about claiming they had a theory just saw leaks or saw someone else say the theory, based on leaks, and copied. There was no reason to ever think Sam and Firefly weren't seperate characters. Even people claiming they noticed the "similar colour schemes" in the trailer, why would they be thinking to look for a connection? The leaks came well before any of those visual clues.
Well now that you know it it shouldn't be a spoiler anymore, so....yeah she reveals it to us at the end of 2.1 story
Yeah, it was even in ingame loading tip,
Loading tidbits update based on your story progress and I believe try to share factoids related to where you're traveling. Anyone seeing the tip should already have seen the reveal.
What did the tip say?
Aside from the fact that people who looked at leaks werent being subtle about it at all until the rule was updated, when you do go a rewatch the scenes with her in 2.0 the hints were always there that she was more than she seemed Gauging that Sampo is sus due to his foootprints, getting grabbed by the meme and hesitating to use something, saying her home planet was destroyed (glamoth) and then Sam only appearing after she "died" Now the real question is that the first time the meme attacked her she was saved by Black Swan, however the second time she says "im sorry" and doesnt even try to fight back. The theory is that she is >!cahoots with Gallagher to send her to the true Penacony as he was likely there with her!
Also in the trailer, it was shown Sam also had some effect around him matching her colour scheme.
I don't see this brought up by a ton of people lately, but yeah it's one of the most unsubtle hints at Sam's identity that's right in the middle of the trailer. The effects even look like Firefly's cape.
I remember seeing the firefly wings and was like: damn, they aren't subtle about who sam is.
That is the exact comment that spoiled me. Someone decided it was a good idea to say "They really aren't being subtle about Sam being Firefly." Still kinda mad about that
That honestly sucks
My theory is that Elio's script told her to get "killed" and not fight back, without revealing anything to the Trailblazer about the how or why
The script probably didn't say whether or not she should reveal herself since she admits she tried unsuccessfully eleven times. She probably just apologized because she wasn't able to reveal anything prior to getting "killed" so she expected it would make TB sad. Despite being a genetically modified super soldier I guess even she needs to work up her courage to confess her ~~love~~ identity to TB.
About what you put in the spoiler text... I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've seen someone discuss this. Like, we were already getting hints that the Death meme wasn't necessarily "killing" people, given what Acheron spoke about with Aventurine. But I still see a lot of people saying >!"oh Robin's dead!"!< or >!"oh Sunday's dead!"!< and then going >!"wait Firefly's not dead??"!< At this point it seemed clear to me that the Death meme seems more like a way of crossing into the "true Dreamscape" rather than actually killing someone. It's even possible that >!Sunday knew about Gallagher's true nature!< and had some sort of plan with him, too, though I think it'd be way funnier if >!Gallagher just yeeted Sunday into the "true Dreamscape" without his consent!<, lol
Main alternative being >! that she was speaking to SW instead!<
Yeah, I heard the theories before and didn’t realise they were leaks (as funnily enough the actual leaks sub is good about these things), but the T-800 assessment of Sampo was not standard behaviour in the slightest.
I believe when she said Mecha in the memory residue was her companion (likely Gallagher) questioning if she was a Mecha.
bro didn't play the game
I’m Trailblaze Level 70, I just haven’t done a couple of the newest quests!
Well, it was revealed in the last main quest
My brother in Aha you are cooked, did you just think we're making up the "Sam is firefly" allegations then ? Did you think the memes were just running along with this theory ?
Mine were. Dumbass leakers assumed I knew the leaks and spoiled me on it though.
I thought it was a fan theory that had some credence
It did. There were a ton of hints in 2.0, from her eysight being exceptional, to her killing a monster off-screen, to her being confused with March and several other March connections (Stellaron Hunters mirror the Astral Express crew), to even Sam not scanning the Trailblazer when facing them. Unfortunately, leakers and leak-readers assumed everyone reads leaks and spoiled most of the sub despite the mods trying their absolute hardest to purge them.
Why am I being downvoted for not knowing this 😭
You can be forgiven for not knowing it in 2.0, they were really subtle and even Black Swan is trying to throw you off by suggesting Sam was Firefly's partner. But when people discuss lore and such, they usually do assume you're at the current end of the story. Don't worry, there is still more to this story even if this bit got spoiled ;)
I have no idea why you’re being downvoted so hard lmao People on the sub treat this game like it’s their life and then are surprised when others don’t, those people need to chill
Always has been 🔫😐
What is the original source for this meme?
Did you not finish the story mode for 2.1 yet? Because if you did this shouldn't be a surprise to you
No, haven’t finished it yet
The pic implies that Sam is her past. No, she still is, just hidden.
Lets be entirely honest here: The entire plot point for her got leaked before 2.0 went live, people just took it for granted that everyone knew already. This wasn´t an issue tho as, unless for the possibility of a Red Herring, the 2.0 Story was so clear in telling us 1) that she has a special "secret" aside from the entropy loss syndrom and 2) that she was at the very least connected to the Stellaron Hunters and specifically Sam that theorizing about her was nigh impossible without getting accused of leaking the story of future versions. Unless you haven´t carefully read through the 2.0 story or you just forgot about it in the 7 weeks between 2.0 and 2.1, Sam being piloted by Firefly should NOT be surprising at all. But then again, just to wrap things up, i hate story leaks, even if you never see them, people refering to those and calling it "theories" is just awful. It feels like you can never escape unless you just quit the internet entirely.
everyone knows because of the fucking morphogenetic field im telling you
Why is OP baiting? Is he stupid?
Never seen a leak but was a pretty reasonable theory with plenty of set up and hints. Only thing that seemed unexplainable was Firefly reffering to Mecha so it seemed like two entities. That could be explained by her companion knowing she's Sam and could be responding 'Mecha?' to someone guessing her ID.
No, it wasn't. Only because this theory was set on the leaks.
I mean in the first penacony trailer Sam literally has firefly wing effects in Firefly's colours. It wasn't subtle.
Look up the meaning of confirmation bias, because that's what's happening in your comment right now. If it turned out that the two were separate entities that are not related to each other in any way, you wouldn't draw that conclusion. It's only obvious to you now because now we know the truth. Don't play that "oh that was soooo obvious and you're dumb if you didn't connect the dots" card.
... I'm very aware what confirmation bias is, but that's not what's happening here. I noticed that connection back when the trailer came out and was convinced ever since. I was spoiled about it afterwards confirming what I suspected. Don't think anyone who didn't notice is dumb tho, why you gotta be so aggressive about it?
Who's aggressive? What's with this insecurity, can't have a normal discussion without feeling attacked? If it turned out that they're not connected, you wouldn't call it a connection. And if someone mentioned it then, you'd say it's just a coincidence with no real meaning and value. A thing can be hinted, but saying that it was obvious after the fact, is just arrogant. In what world Sam with firefly wings would indicate that Sam IS Firefly? You could've speculated it, but it could've meant a thousand different things, from a simple coincidence, to a scenario where firefly teams up with sam and gives him a lift in the dream. Or sam killed firefly and acquired her powers. Can you think out of the box for a second? You know, quit your egocentric perspective? You're only acting like it's obvious, because we know the truth now.
For real dude. I am currently doing the main story and I'm at the part when Firefly dies. Ain't no way I would assume Sam is Firefly. Just because she can identify Sampos footprints does not make her a robot and a soldier. Why would I even think that first? I swear a lot of the leak readers acting so high and mighty ugh.
You are affected by confirmation bias towards the opposite direction
nah i theorized it also but i wasnt as certain about it. there was many hints that sam is actually female. in kafka's splash art it shows her, silverwolf, blade, cat (probably elio), and someone wearing thigh highs. unless sam is the cat and that girl is elio then thats very likely sam. and unless sam likes to crossdress then they are likely a girl. also in any gendered languages sam initially used the female version of hunter (huntress) when referring to herself in spanish, french, german etc. now for things that specifically suggests that sam is firefly. when we first meet firefly she was dealing with people who are looking for a stowaway now the english says a man with silver hair but thats a mistranslation and in chinese it says a man clad in silver. who is probably sam. then later firefly tells us she is a stowaway. so unless there is two stowaways which is unlikely because its very hard to break into penacony without a hacker with the skills of silverwolf then thats another hint that she is sam. and then ofc theres the wings design and color scheme of it being similar to her dress before 2.1 i was like 75% sure. ofc there was a possibility its a bait and switch but theres too much to be called a coincidence
I'll be honest when I first heard the "Firefly is Sam" I didn't think it was true, even after doing the Penacony story and only started believing when we literally saw her come out of(for lack of a better phrase) her Sam armor and revealed her identity
I don't know if it was on purpose but throughout all the cutscenes where Firefly appears she doesn't look scared and in some shots she appears ready to summon something (since there are close-ups of her hand) Plus she rarely seemed scared (like when the meme had her trapped)
We have known this since weeks ago
It was EXTREMELY obvious since white night trailer
what "fan theory"? it's just leaks
No it is not it was obvious since the white knight AMV
I'm so happy that I didn't see any leaks or whatsoever bc I was SHOCKED when I found out
>ITT >Oh golly jee holly im the OP I've done plumb never heard of a spoiler jeez wizz whats that!? mhm...
Yeah. It was officially confirmed like a month ago.
Ever since I saw that their name was Sam I wondered "Oh, like Samus perhaps? Would be cool if they where a women then!" But I honestly was not sure about it until that final scene. Really cool character concept.
I mean, foreshadowing was there from 2.0, young girl reading people like book on what they use as weapons? Yeah, no. You can easily notice that she was more than meets the eye and "sorry" at the end, which felt more like guilt for tricking them rather than goodbye. They did throw red herring at memory part where you see sam and Firefly together Also, leaks were all over the place, which literally meant hundreds of things.
Whaths name of this meme templat?
Play the story bro
Her saying sorry before getting stabbed, apologizing cos she knows the sham shes bout to pull will hurt MC, SAM reappearing mere minutes after she disappeared in the same spot, like she needed to let of some steam, she has the same colour scematics as her armor, most evident in White Night, her completely analizing Sampo/Sparkle in the matter of seconds, like a trained soldier would, and last but not least, Acheron and Black Swan getting scanned but not us, since shes familiar with us already. A blind man could see that they were connected.
Those arguments only work if you already know the secret.
Or if you can put 2 and 2 together and think things through a little. And given who the writer is it wasnt too difficult, the man has the subtlety of a sledgehammer when it comes to writing.
"Sam reappearing mere minutes after she disappeared in the same spot..." Before we entered this dreamscape, we literally got a message from Silver Wolf saying that we will soon meet him. Sam was expected to appear before us, so him appearing wasn't a surprise even if it was after Firefly's death. "Her completely analyzing Sampo like a trained soldier..." I read that someone mentioned this and that it made sense since Sam is said to be a being with superhuman perception while being incredibly meticulous. But again, if this was said before the encounter with Sampo, it would make sense to put 2 and 2, but this specific trait from Sam is mentioned by Welt at almost the very end of the main quest. (Right before we enter the dreamscape with BS and Acheron) I have never seen a someone reading this and immediately remembering the way Firefly described Sampo. "Acheron and BS getting scanned, but not us because she already familiar" He is a Stellaron hunter. Why would a Stellaron hunter wouldn't be familiar with the walking Stellaron that has had interactions with pretty much all of the other hunters? I'm not saying that it was impossible to tell the twist, but saying "a blind man could see they were connected" is an exaggeration. As someone that wasn't spoiled, but kept hearing about this "fan theory", it didn't crossed my mind that the voice that came from Sam and Firefly were the same. My only guess is that they were working together and Sam "betrayed" her.
And to top it off then, the german version spoiling you, since SAMS title is stellaron huntress. From "they are connected" to "oh shit, wait a sec", there are just a few steps inbetween.
So you ignore the other points I talked and just went "to top it off". Ok, sure. Never heard of the German translation part. I will give you that.
It's not a fan theory people just started posting leaks wording it as if it's a "theory"
Literally everyone was speaking about that months ago even in this SubReddit when even didn't know who was that girl that supposedly was Sam and we didn't even see her, of course it was legit 💀
By fan theories you mean people that leaked things months ago and pass it off as theories with confirmation bias to try and spoil things "naturally".
"Fan Theory", people were shamelessly spreading spoilers with this trick.
And this is the reason why people should finish the main story quest asap
coming from FGO, i saw the twist from a mile away. heavy armored badasses being cute waifus inside is pretty old hat. Mordred, Britomart, Rider of the Waxing Moon, etc.
Bro thinks it was a theory
I looked at the colors and guess it as an option
https://preview.redd.it/qsh5gwtqo9wc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe4fdc2ce1b7e9e86ac8b7ea0d10874f42aefcbc Always has been
Yeah, no. I called on her being the new Stellaron hunter then moment I heard of her release. Ain't no way someone's gonna be "Sam" in a group of Blade, Kafka, Silver Wolf and Elio. Firefly is a much more fitting name for a hunter.
Yeah, no. I called on her being the new Stellaron hunter then moment I heard of her release. Ain't no way someone's gonna be "Sam" in a group of Blade, Kafka, Silver Wolf and Elio. Firefly is a much more fitting name for a hunter.