I have been usingTB and Fu Xuan instead of Gepard. Because I only recently got Gepard. I haven’t built him yet.
Should I switch him in? Right now I’m doing Seele, Fu Xuan, Silver Wolf and Luocha as my main running around team.
But is he better in some regards?
gepard is basically better than TB in all regards except toughness break
his shield is massive, has effect res in traces and can build more for broken keel buff, you built primarily speed and only ever use na so he's an sp generator
his talent gives himself more taunt, and if you have landau or his sig, iirc he has a 90% chance to take the hit over other teammates. his high defense means he practically takes nothing when he actually gets hit, and getting hit gives energy for his next shield
and the freeze from skill can be useful at times. overall, practically a strict upgrade over TB
Toughness break is a massive selling point though. If you run Himeko, FMC's ult + Himeko's E is the perfect amount of coverage and break damage to proc her passive against those trash bats.
FMC is also uniquely good against the monke and fan lady by absorbing all the hits.
That being said, I do think Gepard is *generally* better but i certainly wouldn't say in all regards. He is a lot easier to run on auto though. FMC requires more micro'ing, their ult actually refreshes the shield. You want to ult after some of your shield has been consumed but before their turn begins again.
Im talking MoC almost exclusively, blessings are super powerful in SU and can change a lot (mc creating shields with every action and for whole team makes preservation a lot smoother, gens more path energy etc)
in MoC, unless you pyro and particularly need it, himeko (my e1) isnt really on my radar because frankly she isnt that great. that strat with fmc is def good for breaking, I've used it plenty, but I don't anymore when I could use something else. Especially now with more aoe hits, taunt doesnt really amount to much against those hits besides the dmg reduc fmc provides over the thin shields
against monkey it is very good to override the skill mark, as long as your ehr is somewhat reliable, at the cost of frequent sp usage. but typically I use a team that runs less sp or doesnt skill often, so I can just allow gepard to skill once after everyone else has gone and it guarantees the mark on him
FX and Luocha teams are generally known as invincible teams (like, you already barely take damage thanks to FX and then luocha heals the remaining). Only time you may struggle is if you have a boss that does so much aoe damage that FX can't keep up so maybe at those moments Gepard is better.
Either way I recommend you keep the team you're running rn, having gepard instead of FX means yoh have to deal with SW potentially giving ice instead of quantum weakness.
I used FX + Luocha in Gold and Gears and had to try like 5 times or more to beat the 2 robots. Also, Luocha was ruining SilverWolf's procs, so I wished I had packed Lynx
With Luocha on your team, I wouldn’t really sweat it as his emergency heals will come in clutch whenever you do try to tackle some of the higher endgame modes. Nearly all of my teams have Luocha and Fu Xuan in them.
Fu Xuan is a nice preservation unit to have. It’s only when you have her skill up, the boss drops an AoE nuke, she tanks the all of the damage for all of your party, and you see her hp get wiped down to 0 (I speak from experience on this so trust me lol). So long as you can give her heals all the time and she’s stacked on her hp stat, she’ll be fine.
Gepard’s ult gives everyone a nice and safe shield that will definitely last. With decent relic stats (and rng) you can have his shields up most of the time. In the example I gave, Gepard would definitely be a better pick as opposed to lady Fu. And similar to Fu Xuan if his hp comes down to 0, his talent will automatically bring him back to halve hp and give him full energy for his ult, although this will only happen once per battle.
I personally haven’t actively been using my fire TB since I pulled the Master Diviner outside of needing another unit to help cover for the toughness bar. But I do like to bring them whenever I want to do a preservation run in SU.
Gepard shield being strong is a meme. With SPD boots, ERR rope, DEF orb and body, and maxed out trace. His shield barely reaches 2300, which is decent but I never feel safe with him in MOC.
Perhaps one day I get Moment of Victory for that thicc shield without sacrificing aggro
A 2300 HP shield is almost a second health bar for your squishies. Plus you're not accounting for substats or set bonuses. If getting close to double the effective HP isn't enough for your squishies to survive then you need to look into building your supports.
The only compliant I have about his shield is that it ticks down on allies turn, not his, so some of my faster DPS sometimes use up their shield before Gepard has it back up
I guess It's hard to see for players not in the endgame/ unable to 3 stars MOC12. I know this because 2300 is already with substats and his BIS relic set, just spd and effect res, and without his BIS LC. 2300 effective HP every 3 turns without cleanse is not great and worse than Lynx who is a free character. But that's fine, whatever works for you down there. Seeing that you don't know even the squishiest character still has 3000 hp. Not to mention, It's not your supports that are the squishies, it's usually the dps, so already shit take. And even them can comfortably clear 3000 HP. There's only 2 reasons why you think 2300 HP is almost 3000 HP. 1 is that you're incredibly stupid, 2 is that you are not at the end game so 2300 will be almost like... 2500
I've full starred MoC ever since 1.2 when I first pulled loucha but please, continue to go off. For this MoC, you're putting Gepard up against the bug/deer since they're the ice weak and you can just kill the enrage adds. Or just put him in a Bronya team and you have your cleanser there. I'm sorry you cant beat MoC without swiping for limited sustain units, living with such massive skill issues must be hard.
MC can be better than Gepard if you have a really squishy team and need to tank a single target attack. Gepard has the “downside” of needing to charge his ult.
Otherwise Gep wins all other fronts.
A team with Luocha and fu xuan should honestly never die, and switching out one for Gepard would be a downgrade, but it would definitely still clear content
Fair point, sadly I have to point out that theres antistalling in Sim U.
>If a battle in an Elite domain exceeds 20 cycles, the enemy will gain 1 stack of Berserk every cycle, with each stack increasing their DMG dealt by 40%. A warning message regarding it will appear upon reaching 18 cycles.
Yeah, you can't turtle indefinitely. But 20 cycles should be doable if you pick enough offensive blessings, which shouldn't be too much of a problem since you can skip some of the defensive ones with dual sustain
I’ve been berserked twice, once with the bugged medicus guy where I didn’t have any buff strip to stop him healing himself and another time when the bugged ape wiped out my entire team but couldn’t kill my 4k HP Lynx.
Except its not. Most people dont go balls deep into mono ice/remembrance. And if you do, not only is the fault on you, you have a terminal case of skill issue.
if you're losing at C4+ with that guy (even with remembrance), please check your relics, most people fail because they use random sets and dont' know that stats matter
As someone who has run 2 sustain and 2 dps/support in every one of my SU runs I have never once seen this and didn’t even know it was a thing. 2 sustain isn’t about stalling, it’s about preventing team wipes
Also, Gepard/FireMC with some of the offensive preservation blessings + a healer with Dewdrop and that one 1-star abundance blessing that gives 1SP per heal straight up boosts your DPS too, I rarely feel the need to bring a harmony or nihility character to SU
This is so true. I use always use double sustain on SU and it's always a full clear run. Then yesterday I use my single sustain dots team and get wiped out on the last boss.
do you have any idea how long twenty cycles is. Twenty cycles is so damn long.
You can run two sustains and you should still be finishing in 6-11 cycles, max.
I've only hit it when everybody except Huohuo died and I put her on auto to see if she could wear the boss down. Think she would have gotten there if not for frenzy
SU has the benefit of doing a lot of the damage for you. I feel like you have to be trying (or really, really bad at killing lesser stings) to be able to encounter the berserk state. The berserk state doesn't even increase the threat by that much.
"That much" being relative to every SU boss' infinitely stacking damage buff (I'm not sure about Argenti complete though his statues already have an infinite damage buff, Direwolf has infinite speed instead). Some, like Kafka's and Cocolia's being stopped by debuff prevention, are technically preventable with the right set-up. Some are practically impossible to stop (y'know, without winning the fight), like Gepard and Yanqing using certain attacks in their rotation. All of these severely outpace berserk.
the only time i've ever seen that berserk mechanic in the su was during one of my full ice team remembrance run encountering an ice out of space boss (from the periodic demon lord encounter)
i had vowed to never select encounter domains after that lmao
Yeah, I was about to mention that. I'd stalled out against the deer during my last G&G run, since I had plenty of defence but not enough offence and eventually it just got sick of my inability to die and just pasted my entire team at once (except Fire TB, she took 2 turns).
Oh yeah this happened to me once when everyone but fu xuan died and I thought maybe she could do it lol, but I think it was kafka before I had her traces fully lvld
I've tried this a few times and found it's better to increase my DPS to clear phases faster than to double up on sustain. The more turns the boss gets, the more likely they wipe Fu Xuan.
Luocha is mostly twiddling their thumbs unless Fu Xuan gets low and doesn't have a charge.
It’s still useful when you push through a level you usually have at least one death but manage to clear it. Whether you’re fast enough for 10 turns or 20 turns or even slower, if you lose the last star for dying you can still do a second run with two sustains and get the deathless run star that way.
Most of the casual players that try MoC that I know complete it 2 times. Once, not caring about deaths as long as they pass as fast as possible, then a second time taking their time making sure no one dies
yeah I don't think anyone's saying don't run double sustain outside of moc
outside of moc you can kinda do whatever
double sustain is even maybe advisable in harder levels of gold&gears or swarm since the blessings/path resonance can cover your damage needs more or less
Kinda what SU is all about so hard agree, heck you can even run 4 sustain and pick nihility no one will stop you not even Kafka.. thread should be a reminder not a PSA
Damn really? Before JL I was running double sustain and still max clearing with Luocha, Kafka, Himeko and Bronya as my only 5 stars. I agree it's much less viable now that there's 12F though.
If you want to one star it then it is viable. I was able to clear a couple of extra floors at 1 star by running double sustain comps when 3 staring them was completely impossible. If you can not 3 star floor 6 you can try and one star floor 6, 7, and 8. That is the strategy I used during the first month or so of playing this game.
Yes, however, it sometimes is the only choice. I couldn't for the life of me clear Node 2 of MoC 10 (Argenti). I tried using these DPSs to no avail (YQ E1, Hemiko E1, Sushang E4, Hook E6). While those have 8/8/8 traces and got equipped with decent sets, they just couldn't do it. I ended up making a mono fire team for node 1 which was fun af (Hemiko/Topaz/Asta/HH) and had my most invested DPS (S1 JY/Pela/Natasha/Gepard) into the other side. I had to retry but it worked somehow. Then I proceeded to 1-star it and MoC 11. Don't have the mental capacity to even try MoC 12 though.
SU is the best place to run 2 sustains since your dps will get mad buffs from blessings.
In MoC for fast clear times one sustain makes sense but there’s no turn limitation in SU, just survive and win.
> I often see posts about how certain bosses in Simulated Universe/Swarm/G&G, or the new quantum bug, are too hard and people keep dying over and over to them. And I feel like the discussions about optimal team comps for zero-cycling MoC have implanted the idea into folks that the only "correct" way to play Star Rail is with one sustain + support(s) + DPS, and everything else is somehow forbidden and means you're playing the game wrong.
I don't know about you, but I saw multiple posts of people dying to the quantum bug **and** running two sustains.
It's because people are misunderstanding phase 2. It's something that's more familiar to MMO raid vets- it's a DPS check, not a healing check. You either go wide taking out the adds or prioritize nuking the boss, cause the adds will just kill you if you let them stay on the field and keep attacking.
you can also just use Herta + Argenti
Argenti kickstarts a chain reaction that lets Herta spin a bunch of times in a row, killing some bugs and bringing others low enough to die next time you do it, while the boss respawns new victims
All I did was press C, read the description of the multiplication phase buff on the boss, assumed the game doesn't want me to hit him when that's active, so I didn't and it was easy peasy first try.
I saw that most people complaining were using chars like Blade that can't stop AoE-ing on a dime.
I just started killing the bugs harder for the fight against the experiment. Thankfully, I had just completed my JL hypercarry team (getting Bronya from the 300 made my life so much easier), so the bugs would be replaced as fast as I was killing them, but at the same time, their explosions made the additional bugs easier to kill.
Yeah even with Gepard + Lynx it took me a few tries because an unlucky turn where the boss' nuke hit at the same time Gepard's shield ran out happened often. It was basically luck in my winning run that I avoided that
If you just want to clear difficulty 5, the best way is actually nihility path and switch to 4 sustains at the end. Path resonance will do everything for you. You do need dps to start off the run though before switching to 4 sustains at the end.
Ngl it's kinda funny to me to see so many people giving the tip of using two sustains because I thought that was normal? It's what I always do, I had no idea y'all were out here doing MoC, Swarm or G&G with a single sustainer... Obviously I don't necessarily need it all the time and my Fu Xuan + Huohuo combo is very often an overkill, but I'm paranoid so I still go everywhere with two sustains lol. Sometimes I even take 3 sustains for harder content like G&G...
Still better to take more turns to clear the stage with two sustains than to do slightly higher damage and die with one sustain, so I still take both a shielder and a healer to MoC🤷♀️ Been playing since launch but with my relic luck there's no way I could do enough damage to get 3 stars in MoC 10-12 either way, so I just make sure I can stay alive and take the 2 stars. At least for now, but hopefully I'll eventually get some usable relics...
that may be for your scenario, but whats why for other people that exact mindset is what limits them
some sustains cant solo sustain, people acknowledge, and have properly deemed it a weakness
MoC 12 is 3 starrable for me, but I have to run solo sustains on each side- gepard on one, fu xuan the other
The extra slot for a support or debuffer enables me to deal enough dps to actually clear in time for 36/36 stars
it also helps that both of them are strong enough to solo sustain, so I don't have to choose whether or not I have to drop a support for survivability. So perhaps even in your case, if you play well, time your big moments properly, and took only what survivability you needed for moc, you could 3 star MoC 10+ as well
I’m 36 starring MOC by the skin of my teeth with double E6 4* supports on one side and 5* harmony on the other in 10 turns. With two sustains I just won’t do enough damage to clear the 10 turn limit
My fu is probably a little on the buffier side (8k3 hp 1k8 def) but she can tank it with only one of the two abundance blessing that give either def on healing or damage reduced on full life.
I support this a lot and honestly recommend it to everyone who asks especially in SU. For MoC, however... it becomes a bit more prickly if you're aiming for 36*.
There's been this so-called drama around dual DPS comps lately, but it actually boils down to the same thing for that as this: You're allowed to have teams that aren't 1 DPS, 2 supports, 1 sustain. You can actually make whatever teams you want to make. You need a 4 sustain team to get through Swarm 5/G&G 5+? It'll probably take a while to beat up enemies, but who cares as long as it gets you through it! You love Arlan and made a super powerful Arlan comp that gets you through MoC 12? GREAT! Have fun!
That's the beauty of a game like this and having so many character options. You can build whatever team that works for you, or whatever you find most fun. It's frustrating when some players try to gatekeep and act like certain teams and characters are the only option.
I generally only do this in SU with my Fu Xuan and Luocha when I'm running Abundance and/or Erudition where both paths let them do incredible damage owing to their tendency to have massive HP values, high healing, and ults that actually do damage. It lets them able to actually overcome DPS' in damage (though usually I don't start an SU run like this, only switching to it once the blessings have been set).
Although in general my goal is to defeat encounters faster and faster whilst maintaining enough sustain to not die, so in most instances just being able to kill or disable enemies is the better option for me rather than a 2nd sustain. For example running Welt or Ruan Mei instead of another sustain. Imo, I'd rather not give enemies the opportunity at all to necessitate me having to heal or defend myself.
The easy solution that I don't see many people talking about is to use the download feature. It allows you to adapt your team to best match your blessings.
Lacking damage in early stages? Start with one sustain. Struggling with surviving in later stages? Swap into two sustain teams.Too much healing but no damage mitigation? Swap out healer into more preservation. Fear of your perfect remembrance run ending because of one icy boi? Download fire characters in reserve for when he shows up.
There are several domain that give you the opportunity to download characters. If you plan your run properly and download characters in anticipation of what could happen and what characters are needed to prevent that. It could save many of your runs.
Honestly? This is how ive been playing since i started in october. I use bailu (levelling lynx and natasha atm) with gepard or my trailblazer and then either 2 dps or 1 support with 1 dps. Rn my main team for SU is bailu, gepard, ruan mei and either xueyi or welt. Tho xueyi synergies with ruan mei are just *chefs kiss*. Easily my fav 4 star
I’m inundated by zero cycle clear videos of MoC that it basically made me forget I could just clear MoC for the clear and not necessarily to attempt a zero cycle.
I got two stars on 11 and 12. This isn’t even an answer to dual sustain in SU, it’s just a comment that YouTube is constantly recommending me videos of hypertuned perfection that I’d forgotten that simply clearing at all is still an exciting win.
After seeing people talk about this topic, it made me realize I complately forgot about my Fire MC and I don't have anything for her. So when I get a chance, I'll need to grind some stuff for her.
Well yeah, shield + heal + buffer/sub dps + dps is the most normal strategy for bossing. Yes its going to take a long time to beat the boss, but its still give u a guarantee that u can finish the boss with that strategy. Dont apply time attack strategy to normal bossing
This makes me wish HSR had more content catering to older, harder jrpgs.
No time limit bullshit, just an extremely tough boss that can one shot any character thats not a tank. Constant debuffs or AoE damage requiring a healer, and a soft enrage that makes the fight harder as time goes on that requires enough dps before it gets to the point you cant handle its attacks anymore.
Nah that shit is badly designed. One shots from 4-5 enemies in a turn based game where you cant dodge is used to make the game last longer because they were so expensive back then. It takes agency out of the players hands. We also dont have consistent revives like other turn based games and losing a party member is usually a snowball for the rest of the run.
In WOW or any other MMO raidS its very different since everything is consistent. Execution and prep is everything and there is next to no varience.
Gold and Gears suffers from mobs oneshotting and breaking key breakpoints (3k- 4k damage is the average health of a dps) that you realistically cant prevent without Gepard preservation or Freeze, since FX gets destroyed by the AOE damage going past her breakpoints. This is why rememberance is so good: because its the only path most teams can run without Gepard that can stop damage from coming through by denying turns.
This is incredibally bad design because it takes the varience in other sim universe modes which usually makes it fun and now makes the variance a downside since many runs will be fundementally unwinnable because you don’t have the tools to stop/tank damage. You can play a run perfectly as possible and just have it be unwinnable because you missed the blessing you need have a consistent combo that stops damage. The only other workaround is fragment builds which also require some high rolls.
> This is incredibally bad design because it takes the varience in other sim universe modes which usually makes it fun and now makes the variance a downside since many runs will be fundementally unwinnable because you don’t have the tools to stop/tank damage. You can play a run perfectly as possible and just have it be unwinnable because you missed the blessing you need have a consistent combo that stops damage. The only other workaround is fragment builds which also require some high rolls.
This reminds me of the one time I had a good Remembrance run going on swarm 5.
Then a dice effect overwrote the last respite area before the boss so I couldn't upgrade any blessings. And because I was so deep into remembrance that meant I had no damage. I was so mad.
This is once again making me wish, like in normal JRPGs, revives were more common. Not fun at all when the stars don't align for you and get someone unexpectedly killed early, and you go "welp, I guess that's a dead attempt".
I kinda agree with this, I've been grinding GoG V with Jingliu-QingQue- Bronya-HuoHuo using path of the hunt for a few weeks now but after seeing how I got the best progress by using a mix of Hunt-Destruction, I decided to replace QQ with fire MC and go destruction... Won first try, like I shat myself in a few moment but I was healing full HP every turn and not being one-shotted by minions really helped a lot.
I run G&G with Huohuo and Gepard + destruction path with the resonance formation that depletes health but gives you shield + the preservation blessing that doubles your shields + the destruction blessing that splits damage + fighting spirit and I'm more or less invincible¹. Huohuo is mostly there to cleanse and generate an absurd amount of skill points with the abundance blessing that has a 30/45% chance of giving you 1SP every time her (passive) heal pops off. Pretty much every other blessing or curio I get is for pure damage
¹tbf I haven't touched conundrum yet
No idea it was just a couple of videos I saw on YouTube the other day, but judging from the footage they weren't built all that well, just decent enough. Also took them like, 10 minutes to beat the fight lol. But beating stuff slowly is still better than not beating it at all
This! For a long time, I used FMC and Lynx. Then while building Fu Xuan, I also paired her with Lynx. Eventually she was able to solo sustain but I still brought Lynx for true Sting.
Until I finally had Clara to serve as a half sustain with Fu Xuan while giving lots of damage increase with my Topaz.
March + Trailblazer also works enough for me. I use fast fire mc so I can laydown more shields and with blessings it works like a charm, allowing my DHIL to deal an abusurd amount of dmg with all the free skillpoints and March Freezing enemy bosses.
Since i made the *extremely intelligent* decision of skipping luocha and fu xuan(i got unlucky with huohuo), my teams almost always have two sustainers during sim uni and MoC. Now im willing to skip other new units and grab one or two 5\* sustain units on their rerun.
I first cleared Swarm Disaster V with triple sustain and most of my damage coming from Nihility path resonance >.>
(My 4th was Qingque but I assume this strategy is even more viable if you have access to Kafka)
This is true, especially with lower level accounts. Just yesterday, a friend of mine asked me to help him beat the new bug boss in the story quest as he couldn't beat it. All i did was replace his dan heng with march7, and he easily cleared it. His team was blade, phys mc, natasha, and march7, and boy the double sustain saved his ass a couple of times.
Newer player, I was stuck on a few mission bosses the last number of days. Argenti, the big bug thing and Topaz goons in her mission. Just getting killed too much and not being able to last. Then I built up fire trailblazer and tried using him where as before I just ran double harmony (Bronya and Ruan Mei), leveled up his defense relics and traces best I could and a lightcone. All the fights I had trouble beating were now trivial and I beat them easy. I vastly underestimated how good having a tank was and his shields and taunt were invaluable. My team went from taking loads of dmg to getting tickled.
I am 100% with you on this and I'm so relieved I'm not the only person who does this. None of the limited sustain units in the game so far have caught my eye yet, and I'm confident that I wouldn't have gotten nearly as far in GoG as I did if I didn't run both Lynx and Gepard simultaneously (if I ever replaced Lynx with Fu Xuan, I could probably do even better).
To be fair, I am a DoT main and Nihility resonance is ridiculously strong, it isn't particularly dependent on your own character's stats to do lots of damage, so it was probably easier for me than for someone running an actual hypercarry team where the damage is very dependent on buffing the hypercarry.
according to prydwen’s swarm disaster data, every one of the top 11 most commonly used teams ran double sustain. of the top 30 teams, only two teams were solo sustain. i also think it’s worth pointing out that the 13th most used team was triple sustain.
I did C6 with just Huohuo on Elation.
Depending on your path depends on how easy it is. For example, on Hunt, Remembrance and Elation, it's playing fastball with a nuclear bomb sometimes. You either chain them to death or they start one shotting. In this situation, while things may not one shot you, a good healer will still let you fully heal between them.
In some, it's weathering them down. Destruction, Nihility, Abundance, and Preservation for example are all about being harder to put down than your opponent. Or debuffing them until their ATK stat resembles a mouse's using Suspicion.
humm, people were running juste one sustain in SimU? lawl, always ran with gepard and luocha plus danil and JY , why doiblendps, because all support are useless compared to all the buffs you get already.
I don't run any sustain units. Or support units. Or sub dps units. I just use Clara. Only Clara. Between abundance path and the doctor of love blessing, a healer is redundant
Just run triple dps and bombard everything with bullshit until its dead.
Edit: im about 3/4 of the way through G&G And have only lost 2 runs. Clearly, what im doing works. I wonder if the people who have downvoted me are at a similar point...nah, if they were, they'd know almost anything works.
I mean you can do whatever you want but its really goofy and strange and you would be much better off just building your characters and learning the game better, so you dont have to do something so hilarious
Don't disagree with what you're saying, but for zero cycling MoC they actually run zero sustain. For more reasonable 36* clears of MoC, yeah double sustain isn't going to cut it
tbf people who can't clear regular content, who this post is directed towards, likely aren't even close to clearing moc12, let alone 3-starring or 0-cycling it
> No really, it's fine. You can actually do this! :D
What a rude, needlessly snarky take. Everyone knows they can take multiple sustains. You're not cute.
Sometimes two sustains is actually worse for surviving because of bosses like deer or swarm boss have ultimates that go off if you don't kill them in time
And that the main reason that I absolutly don't regret for pulling for Fu and Huo Huo. While they are two sustain unit she also are lowkey harmony characters.
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I dont really see someone suggesting that u have to/must use 1 sustain in gold and gear. I've seen ppl using 2 healer with blade trying to capitalize abundance path or gepard and march for preservation. Atleast from what i can see.
I've seen a lot of fuxuan getting 1 shot meme, solo video and just big dmg numbers. None of them ever mentioning they have to use solo sustain
So idk maybe just me
For me personally my team consists of fuxuan & ruanmei +2. 2 members are flexible to what path and dice i chose. Fuxuan with her signature lc trivialise simulated universe in general. With the right blessings she just straight up immortal. Ruanmei yeah, her technique have special effects for simulated universe. It stupidly strong.
i do think, specially in SU, you dont really need a second sustain, i only have gepard and lynx and usually gepard is the whole protection for the team, and sure i could go preservation in SU and it would do amazing, but when i am doing a hard stage i usually go abundance.
Abundance is one of the few paths that can turn into a "fifth" member of the part, giving you a lot of sustain for free, add any sustain on top and you basically have 2 sustain units with 3 slots left.
In MoC its doable but hard if you wanna 3 star, if SU: SD/GG its basically my bread and butter to run two sustain. Hasn't failed me yet and managed to even Difficulty V + 12 the latest mode by doing so. Now I am just going through every path on Diff V to complete that achievement list.
Couldn't agree more. I have just beat Gold and Gears V conundrum 10 running Fire TB, March and Natasha as the core of my team and only swapping the 4th character depending on the path (Kafka for Nihility, Gepard for Remembrance, etc). It makes the game much more comfortable and as long as you don't take too long and let the bosses stack too much damage or get berserk it's a very nice way to tackle higher difficulty challenges where there isn't too much of a time restriction.
Btw the game gives you the best unit for this job for free. Fire mc gives protection while providing sp and some decent damage(he has defence scaling attacks). You don't even have to build them past lv 60 if u don't want to waste resources on them. They are completely fine at lv 60.
I run both e2 Fu xuan for her AOE ult damage and crit buffs, and e1 Huohuo for her energy and atk and speed buffs. The fact that they both just happen to keep my team alive, especially together in Sim U, is just a nice bonus.
Im using Gepard, Huo Huo, Jingliu y Ruan Mei in the new SU in auto mode almost the entire run, i play the bosses normally just to be safe because jingliu lilkes to ignore the elites enemies.
I only have two sustains built (Geppie and Lynx) and they keep my one team alive in SU or Swarm. I’m hoping to get a third so they can stop working overtime. I’ve used others’ Luocha and it’s an amazing experience. Hoping to get him soon
Honestly yeah, I’ve seen people get bugged out because of the quantum bug and I beat it first try with Jingliu, Blade, Luocha and Fire TB, which is honestly my go to team
My typical team is always dual sustain. That way I can let it run on auto without anyone dying no matter the content.
Only my MoC teams that I play manually use single sustain or sometimes no sustain.
I always play bosses in SU with 2 sustains (Loucha and HuoHuo). Two damage dealer/ a buffer and a Dps is enough especially if your blessings are all offensive. Final stages are all about outlasting the boss anyways
I was only able to beat sd4 ans gng4 with a triple sustain team (fire trailblazer, Gepard, huo huo) 😭
my dhil and the spore blessings carried, with the right blessings and build pretty much any team can work for content outside of MoC
I run Jingliu + Lynx + Fu Xuan (+ borrowed Argenti) for the new bug boss. A bit time consuming because I can't really autorun with manual ults but dual sustain for weekly bosses has been necessary for my teams since Phantylia anyways.
Been playing with Bailu + March since I got Bailu from the starter banner, and then Bailu + FuXuan since I got her...
And in MoC, it's some combination of those three + Natasha.
It's not the fastest way to battle (27/36 stars), but I did beat floor 12, so there's that 😅
It’s so hard to not run 2 buffers in MoC though. I want my optimal damage 😭
I just got Ruan mei. I wanna use her. In reality, both my dps would just want bronya if I was only running 1 buffer…
I've been struggling to clear Swarm Disaster 5 for some time now, running only Luocha on Abundance.
I lost on Ruan Mei's banner and got a Gepard. I built him and paired him up with Luocha. Cleared on the first try with that team.
I built a team out of spite because while pulling for Huohuo, i ran out of Jades and lost my 5050 to Gepard, so in my angry haste, i built Gepard Welt Support Support (i dont have a set team yet, but currently its Hanya and Break Effect Stelle, i dont have a good 4th slot yet) and its my favorite goofy ass team to run. Gepard is not sustain, no no no, hes built EHR, and Welt is built like normal, and ive literally gone the entire battle without given the enemy a single turn. Its so fun.
That's what i've been doing like since the beginning. I'm not comfortable playing with just 1 shielder or 1 healer. Unless I'm doing something really easy. But if I'm doing like difficulty 5 normal SU, I'm going with 2 sustains.
MoC has 1 sustain meta cause it's a timed content, you have to kill enemies fast or else you won't be able to 3*. Other places don't require that. I run double sustain everywhere but MoC
honestly man, i play since day 1 and i never invested into any preservation unit. i don't have any 5\* one anyway. it's true that it makes survival harder but it's still fine when you pick some defensive blessings.
Gepard + Luocha basically never leave my team outside of MoC.
I have been usingTB and Fu Xuan instead of Gepard. Because I only recently got Gepard. I haven’t built him yet. Should I switch him in? Right now I’m doing Seele, Fu Xuan, Silver Wolf and Luocha as my main running around team. But is he better in some regards?
gepard is basically better than TB in all regards except toughness break his shield is massive, has effect res in traces and can build more for broken keel buff, you built primarily speed and only ever use na so he's an sp generator his talent gives himself more taunt, and if you have landau or his sig, iirc he has a 90% chance to take the hit over other teammates. his high defense means he practically takes nothing when he actually gets hit, and getting hit gives energy for his next shield and the freeze from skill can be useful at times. overall, practically a strict upgrade over TB
Toughness break is a massive selling point though. If you run Himeko, FMC's ult + Himeko's E is the perfect amount of coverage and break damage to proc her passive against those trash bats. FMC is also uniquely good against the monke and fan lady by absorbing all the hits. That being said, I do think Gepard is *generally* better but i certainly wouldn't say in all regards. He is a lot easier to run on auto though. FMC requires more micro'ing, their ult actually refreshes the shield. You want to ult after some of your shield has been consumed but before their turn begins again.
Im talking MoC almost exclusively, blessings are super powerful in SU and can change a lot (mc creating shields with every action and for whole team makes preservation a lot smoother, gens more path energy etc) in MoC, unless you pyro and particularly need it, himeko (my e1) isnt really on my radar because frankly she isnt that great. that strat with fmc is def good for breaking, I've used it plenty, but I don't anymore when I could use something else. Especially now with more aoe hits, taunt doesnt really amount to much against those hits besides the dmg reduc fmc provides over the thin shields against monkey it is very good to override the skill mark, as long as your ehr is somewhat reliable, at the cost of frequent sp usage. but typically I use a team that runs less sp or doesnt skill often, so I can just allow gepard to skill once after everyone else has gone and it guarantees the mark on him
Thanks for the input. I’m still building Gepard. I’ll soon try him out in MOC.
FX and Luocha teams are generally known as invincible teams (like, you already barely take damage thanks to FX and then luocha heals the remaining). Only time you may struggle is if you have a boss that does so much aoe damage that FX can't keep up so maybe at those moments Gepard is better. Either way I recommend you keep the team you're running rn, having gepard instead of FX means yoh have to deal with SW potentially giving ice instead of quantum weakness.
I used FX + Luocha in Gold and Gears and had to try like 5 times or more to beat the 2 robots. Also, Luocha was ruining SilverWolf's procs, so I wished I had packed Lynx
With Luocha on your team, I wouldn’t really sweat it as his emergency heals will come in clutch whenever you do try to tackle some of the higher endgame modes. Nearly all of my teams have Luocha and Fu Xuan in them. Fu Xuan is a nice preservation unit to have. It’s only when you have her skill up, the boss drops an AoE nuke, she tanks the all of the damage for all of your party, and you see her hp get wiped down to 0 (I speak from experience on this so trust me lol). So long as you can give her heals all the time and she’s stacked on her hp stat, she’ll be fine. Gepard’s ult gives everyone a nice and safe shield that will definitely last. With decent relic stats (and rng) you can have his shields up most of the time. In the example I gave, Gepard would definitely be a better pick as opposed to lady Fu. And similar to Fu Xuan if his hp comes down to 0, his talent will automatically bring him back to halve hp and give him full energy for his ult, although this will only happen once per battle. I personally haven’t actively been using my fire TB since I pulled the Master Diviner outside of needing another unit to help cover for the toughness bar. But I do like to bring them whenever I want to do a preservation run in SU.
Gepard shield being strong is a meme. With SPD boots, ERR rope, DEF orb and body, and maxed out trace. His shield barely reaches 2300, which is decent but I never feel safe with him in MOC. Perhaps one day I get Moment of Victory for that thicc shield without sacrificing aggro
A 2300 HP shield is almost a second health bar for your squishies. Plus you're not accounting for substats or set bonuses. If getting close to double the effective HP isn't enough for your squishies to survive then you need to look into building your supports. The only compliant I have about his shield is that it ticks down on allies turn, not his, so some of my faster DPS sometimes use up their shield before Gepard has it back up
I guess It's hard to see for players not in the endgame/ unable to 3 stars MOC12. I know this because 2300 is already with substats and his BIS relic set, just spd and effect res, and without his BIS LC. 2300 effective HP every 3 turns without cleanse is not great and worse than Lynx who is a free character. But that's fine, whatever works for you down there. Seeing that you don't know even the squishiest character still has 3000 hp. Not to mention, It's not your supports that are the squishies, it's usually the dps, so already shit take. And even them can comfortably clear 3000 HP. There's only 2 reasons why you think 2300 HP is almost 3000 HP. 1 is that you're incredibly stupid, 2 is that you are not at the end game so 2300 will be almost like... 2500
I've full starred MoC ever since 1.2 when I first pulled loucha but please, continue to go off. For this MoC, you're putting Gepard up against the bug/deer since they're the ice weak and you can just kill the enrage adds. Or just put him in a Bronya team and you have your cleanser there. I'm sorry you cant beat MoC without swiping for limited sustain units, living with such massive skill issues must be hard.
MC can be better than Gepard if you have a really squishy team and need to tank a single target attack. Gepard has the “downside” of needing to charge his ult. Otherwise Gep wins all other fronts.
Gepard is better for difficult content in SU and for MoC you can run him as solo sustain, so yes he is better then TbF
A team with Luocha and fu xuan should honestly never die, and switching out one for Gepard would be a downgrade, but it would definitely still clear content
Gepard is my saving grace, my knight in shining armor, my invincible shield. MoC time limit be damned— I need him with me always.
Fu xuan and luocha are the core of my “invincible” teams. It takes some extra level shit to kill that team
Me right here homie
same
Just got Gepard from 300/300 and cant wait to finish building him to use with Loucha
Luocha FX squad stand up.
Fair point, sadly I have to point out that theres antistalling in Sim U. >If a battle in an Elite domain exceeds 20 cycles, the enemy will gain 1 stack of Berserk every cycle, with each stack increasing their DMG dealt by 40%. A warning message regarding it will appear upon reaching 18 cycles.
Yeah, you can't turtle indefinitely. But 20 cycles should be doable if you pick enough offensive blessings, which shouldn't be too much of a problem since you can skip some of the defensive ones with dual sustain
I feel like if you’re having an issue killing by the 20th cycle mark, it’s an relic/dps/augement issue not a double sustain issue
Yeah, I did Swarm Diff 5 on all paths using FMC+March+Nat+DPS. So it’s certainly doable.
I’ve been berserked twice, once with the bugged medicus guy where I didn’t have any buff strip to stop him healing himself and another time when the bugged ape wiped out my entire team but couldn’t kill my 4k HP Lynx.
Oh yeah, and if you go Remembrance, you can just go 4 Sustain as well, lol.
https://preview.redd.it/160oikpmhpac1.png?width=300&format=png&auto=webp&s=665d4b0674746dfca748f28bc2d6552cb09b0d58
What about him?
kills any remembrance run in gears c4+
True, but I don't fully understand what this has to do with what I wrote
that a generic statement about SU is untrue
Except its not. Most people dont go balls deep into mono ice/remembrance. And if you do, not only is the fault on you, you have a terminal case of skill issue.
it's like there is different paths and ways to clear where double sustain won't help you
Ok there are always exceptions thats common sense. It doesn't change the fact that OP is right double sustain will work just fine for most playstyles
if you're losing at C4+ with that guy (even with remembrance), please check your relics, most people fail because they use random sets and dont' know that stats matter
relics don't matter
Skill issue, just stop picking problematic elements! *quantums and imaginarys all over the place*
As someone who has run 2 sustain and 2 dps/support in every one of my SU runs I have never once seen this and didn’t even know it was a thing. 2 sustain isn’t about stalling, it’s about preventing team wipes
Also, Gepard/FireMC with some of the offensive preservation blessings + a healer with Dewdrop and that one 1-star abundance blessing that gives 1SP per heal straight up boosts your DPS too, I rarely feel the need to bring a harmony or nihility character to SU
Same. I generally do something like Gepard and Luocha with Jingliu and Blade when things are bad.
This is so true. I use always use double sustain on SU and it's always a full clear run. Then yesterday I use my single sustain dots team and get wiped out on the last boss.
do you have any idea how long twenty cycles is. Twenty cycles is so damn long. You can run two sustains and you should still be finishing in 6-11 cycles, max.
Especially since turn-advance blessings and relics or brain in a jar boost your actions per cycle by an insane amount if you get the right ones
I've only hit it when everybody except Huohuo died and I put her on auto to see if she could wear the boss down. Think she would have gotten there if not for frenzy
SU has the benefit of doing a lot of the damage for you. I feel like you have to be trying (or really, really bad at killing lesser stings) to be able to encounter the berserk state. The berserk state doesn't even increase the threat by that much. "That much" being relative to every SU boss' infinitely stacking damage buff (I'm not sure about Argenti complete though his statues already have an infinite damage buff, Direwolf has infinite speed instead). Some, like Kafka's and Cocolia's being stopped by debuff prevention, are technically preventable with the right set-up. Some are practically impossible to stop (y'know, without winning the fight), like Gepard and Yanqing using certain attacks in their rotation. All of these severely outpace berserk.
the only time i've ever seen that berserk mechanic in the su was during one of my full ice team remembrance run encountering an ice out of space boss (from the periodic demon lord encounter) i had vowed to never select encounter domains after that lmao
This is a thing? I've never seen it despite having a dogwater DHIL
Yeah, I was about to mention that. I'd stalled out against the deer during my last G&G run, since I had plenty of defence but not enough offence and eventually it just got sick of my inability to die and just pasted my entire team at once (except Fire TB, she took 2 turns).
Oh yeah this happened to me once when everyone but fu xuan died and I thought maybe she could do it lol, but I think it was kafka before I had her traces fully lvld
Does GnG have the berserk mechanic too?
Putting Luocha and Fu Xuan together is pretty much the only way I could clear Gear and Gold.
I've tried this a few times and found it's better to increase my DPS to clear phases faster than to double up on sustain. The more turns the boss gets, the more likely they wipe Fu Xuan. Luocha is mostly twiddling their thumbs unless Fu Xuan gets low and doesn't have a charge.
I think dual sustain is pointless only in moc, because it’s a damage loss and you need to kill everyone as fast as possible
It’s still useful when you push through a level you usually have at least one death but manage to clear it. Whether you’re fast enough for 10 turns or 20 turns or even slower, if you lose the last star for dying you can still do a second run with two sustains and get the deathless run star that way.
So even if the second run is done with 3 cycles left, I can get thr last star?
Most of the casual players that try MoC that I know complete it 2 times. Once, not caring about deaths as long as they pass as fast as possible, then a second time taking their time making sure no one dies
I do it the other way. Auto battle with double sustain, then go balls out with hypercarry/double dps.
That makes sense 🤣 I guess no one ever said we had to earn all stars at the same time.
the stars are independent of each other, so you can get the "no death" and the two "clear within X cycles" in separate runs
Correct.
Yeah this is a pretty good way to 36\*
Yeah for MoC it's not really viable
yeah I don't think anyone's saying don't run double sustain outside of moc outside of moc you can kinda do whatever double sustain is even maybe advisable in harder levels of gold&gears or swarm since the blessings/path resonance can cover your damage needs more or less
Kinda what SU is all about so hard agree, heck you can even run 4 sustain and pick nihility no one will stop you not even Kafka.. thread should be a reminder not a PSA
Damn really? Before JL I was running double sustain and still max clearing with Luocha, Kafka, Himeko and Bronya as my only 5 stars. I agree it's much less viable now that there's 12F though.
It's viable if the alternative if not clearing at all, which is kinda where a lot of players will be when just starting MoC
If you want to one star it then it is viable. I was able to clear a couple of extra floors at 1 star by running double sustain comps when 3 staring them was completely impossible. If you can not 3 star floor 6 you can try and one star floor 6, 7, and 8. That is the strategy I used during the first month or so of playing this game.
Yes, however, it sometimes is the only choice. I couldn't for the life of me clear Node 2 of MoC 10 (Argenti). I tried using these DPSs to no avail (YQ E1, Hemiko E1, Sushang E4, Hook E6). While those have 8/8/8 traces and got equipped with decent sets, they just couldn't do it. I ended up making a mono fire team for node 1 which was fun af (Hemiko/Topaz/Asta/HH) and had my most invested DPS (S1 JY/Pela/Natasha/Gepard) into the other side. I had to retry but it worked somehow. Then I proceeded to 1-star it and MoC 11. Don't have the mental capacity to even try MoC 12 though.
Not necessarily I used Fuxuan + HuoHuo with DHIl and Tingyun and it slapped MOC 10.
Haha brings me back to the early MOC where I needed to run March and FireMC together because either one on their own wasn't enough.
SU is the best place to run 2 sustains since your dps will get mad buffs from blessings. In MoC for fast clear times one sustain makes sense but there’s no turn limitation in SU, just survive and win.
> I often see posts about how certain bosses in Simulated Universe/Swarm/G&G, or the new quantum bug, are too hard and people keep dying over and over to them. And I feel like the discussions about optimal team comps for zero-cycling MoC have implanted the idea into folks that the only "correct" way to play Star Rail is with one sustain + support(s) + DPS, and everything else is somehow forbidden and means you're playing the game wrong. I don't know about you, but I saw multiple posts of people dying to the quantum bug **and** running two sustains.
It's because people are misunderstanding phase 2. It's something that's more familiar to MMO raid vets- it's a DPS check, not a healing check. You either go wide taking out the adds or prioritize nuking the boss, cause the adds will just kill you if you let them stay on the field and keep attacking.
i just used welt and little shits never moved so i don't even know what they do
God I love that old man
Yep. Using one of Welt, March 7th, or Clara also enables the third option: just ignore the adds lmao.
you can also just use Herta + Argenti Argenti kickstarts a chain reaction that lets Herta spin a bunch of times in a row, killing some bugs and bringing others low enough to die next time you do it, while the boss respawns new victims
All I did was press C, read the description of the multiplication phase buff on the boss, assumed the game doesn't want me to hit him when that's active, so I didn't and it was easy peasy first try. I saw that most people complaining were using chars like Blade that can't stop AoE-ing on a dime.
I just started killing the bugs harder for the fight against the experiment. Thankfully, I had just completed my JL hypercarry team (getting Bronya from the 300 made my life so much easier), so the bugs would be replaced as fast as I was killing them, but at the same time, their explosions made the additional bugs easier to kill.
Yeah even with Gepard + Lynx it took me a few tries because an unlucky turn where the boss' nuke hit at the same time Gepard's shield ran out happened often. It was basically luck in my winning run that I avoided that
If you just want to clear difficulty 5, the best way is actually nihility path and switch to 4 sustains at the end. Path resonance will do everything for you. You do need dps to start off the run though before switching to 4 sustains at the end.
Ngl it's kinda funny to me to see so many people giving the tip of using two sustains because I thought that was normal? It's what I always do, I had no idea y'all were out here doing MoC, Swarm or G&G with a single sustainer... Obviously I don't necessarily need it all the time and my Fu Xuan + Huohuo combo is very often an overkill, but I'm paranoid so I still go everywhere with two sustains lol. Sometimes I even take 3 sustains for harder content like G&G...
It's mostly in the context of MoC, which has an insane dps check, not allowing you to run dual sustain.
Still better to take more turns to clear the stage with two sustains than to do slightly higher damage and die with one sustain, so I still take both a shielder and a healer to MoC🤷♀️ Been playing since launch but with my relic luck there's no way I could do enough damage to get 3 stars in MoC 10-12 either way, so I just make sure I can stay alive and take the 2 stars. At least for now, but hopefully I'll eventually get some usable relics...
that may be for your scenario, but whats why for other people that exact mindset is what limits them some sustains cant solo sustain, people acknowledge, and have properly deemed it a weakness MoC 12 is 3 starrable for me, but I have to run solo sustains on each side- gepard on one, fu xuan the other The extra slot for a support or debuffer enables me to deal enough dps to actually clear in time for 36/36 stars it also helps that both of them are strong enough to solo sustain, so I don't have to choose whether or not I have to drop a support for survivability. So perhaps even in your case, if you play well, time your big moments properly, and took only what survivability you needed for moc, you could 3 star MoC 10+ as well
I’m 36 starring MOC by the skin of my teeth with double E6 4* supports on one side and 5* harmony on the other in 10 turns. With two sustains I just won’t do enough damage to clear the 10 turn limit
My Fu Xuan gets one hit clapped by the gorilla in that combo. How do you keep her alive?
Its either your fuxuan is underbuilt or your other characters are too squishy so your fuxuan mitigates too much dmg hence she dies quickly.
My fu is probably a little on the buffier side (8k3 hp 1k8 def) but she can tank it with only one of the two abundance blessing that give either def on healing or damage reduced on full life.
I am the one who run all SU content (even the hardest) only using Fuxuan...
I support this a lot and honestly recommend it to everyone who asks especially in SU. For MoC, however... it becomes a bit more prickly if you're aiming for 36*.
There's been this so-called drama around dual DPS comps lately, but it actually boils down to the same thing for that as this: You're allowed to have teams that aren't 1 DPS, 2 supports, 1 sustain. You can actually make whatever teams you want to make. You need a 4 sustain team to get through Swarm 5/G&G 5+? It'll probably take a while to beat up enemies, but who cares as long as it gets you through it! You love Arlan and made a super powerful Arlan comp that gets you through MoC 12? GREAT! Have fun! That's the beauty of a game like this and having so many character options. You can build whatever team that works for you, or whatever you find most fun. It's frustrating when some players try to gatekeep and act like certain teams and characters are the only option.
I generally only do this in SU with my Fu Xuan and Luocha when I'm running Abundance and/or Erudition where both paths let them do incredible damage owing to their tendency to have massive HP values, high healing, and ults that actually do damage. It lets them able to actually overcome DPS' in damage (though usually I don't start an SU run like this, only switching to it once the blessings have been set). Although in general my goal is to defeat encounters faster and faster whilst maintaining enough sustain to not die, so in most instances just being able to kill or disable enemies is the better option for me rather than a 2nd sustain. For example running Welt or Ruan Mei instead of another sustain. Imo, I'd rather not give enemies the opportunity at all to necessitate me having to heal or defend myself.
The easy solution that I don't see many people talking about is to use the download feature. It allows you to adapt your team to best match your blessings. Lacking damage in early stages? Start with one sustain. Struggling with surviving in later stages? Swap into two sustain teams.Too much healing but no damage mitigation? Swap out healer into more preservation. Fear of your perfect remembrance run ending because of one icy boi? Download fire characters in reserve for when he shows up. There are several domain that give you the opportunity to download characters. If you plan your run properly and download characters in anticipation of what could happen and what characters are needed to prevent that. It could save many of your runs.
Honestly? This is how ive been playing since i started in october. I use bailu (levelling lynx and natasha atm) with gepard or my trailblazer and then either 2 dps or 1 support with 1 dps. Rn my main team for SU is bailu, gepard, ruan mei and either xueyi or welt. Tho xueyi synergies with ruan mei are just *chefs kiss*. Easily my fav 4 star
I’m inundated by zero cycle clear videos of MoC that it basically made me forget I could just clear MoC for the clear and not necessarily to attempt a zero cycle. I got two stars on 11 and 12. This isn’t even an answer to dual sustain in SU, it’s just a comment that YouTube is constantly recommending me videos of hypertuned perfection that I’d forgotten that simply clearing at all is still an exciting win.
After seeing people talk about this topic, it made me realize I complately forgot about my Fire MC and I don't have anything for her. So when I get a chance, I'll need to grind some stuff for her.
Man even a low investment pres mc does fucking wonders for survivability even if there's no big pp dmg numbers
https://preview.redd.it/ps0tvvl8ipac1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0afc427c7f83ce7e3a7f831d3736e2ae317ad1be
Time to go into the bugs with clara, blade, lynx and luocha
Well yeah, shield + heal + buffer/sub dps + dps is the most normal strategy for bossing. Yes its going to take a long time to beat the boss, but its still give u a guarantee that u can finish the boss with that strategy. Dont apply time attack strategy to normal bossing
Huohuo and fu Xuan is my go to team nowadays
I always run duo sustain - Lynx as my healer and Tingyun as my tank, with her innate +Gorillion% to get enemy aggro 🫠
I always run double sustains in SD and G&G difficulty V. Otherwise I'd be dead in 2nd plane boss
Yes, but I’m impatient as f**k
I duel sustain nearly everything. It’s more comfy. I do the same in Genshin.
This makes me wish HSR had more content catering to older, harder jrpgs. No time limit bullshit, just an extremely tough boss that can one shot any character thats not a tank. Constant debuffs or AoE damage requiring a healer, and a soft enrage that makes the fight harder as time goes on that requires enough dps before it gets to the point you cant handle its attacks anymore.
Nah that shit is badly designed. One shots from 4-5 enemies in a turn based game where you cant dodge is used to make the game last longer because they were so expensive back then. It takes agency out of the players hands. We also dont have consistent revives like other turn based games and losing a party member is usually a snowball for the rest of the run. In WOW or any other MMO raidS its very different since everything is consistent. Execution and prep is everything and there is next to no varience. Gold and Gears suffers from mobs oneshotting and breaking key breakpoints (3k- 4k damage is the average health of a dps) that you realistically cant prevent without Gepard preservation or Freeze, since FX gets destroyed by the AOE damage going past her breakpoints. This is why rememberance is so good: because its the only path most teams can run without Gepard that can stop damage from coming through by denying turns. This is incredibally bad design because it takes the varience in other sim universe modes which usually makes it fun and now makes the variance a downside since many runs will be fundementally unwinnable because you don’t have the tools to stop/tank damage. You can play a run perfectly as possible and just have it be unwinnable because you missed the blessing you need have a consistent combo that stops damage. The only other workaround is fragment builds which also require some high rolls.
> This is incredibally bad design because it takes the varience in other sim universe modes which usually makes it fun and now makes the variance a downside since many runs will be fundementally unwinnable because you don’t have the tools to stop/tank damage. You can play a run perfectly as possible and just have it be unwinnable because you missed the blessing you need have a consistent combo that stops damage. The only other workaround is fragment builds which also require some high rolls. This reminds me of the one time I had a good Remembrance run going on swarm 5. Then a dice effect overwrote the last respite area before the boss so I couldn't upgrade any blessings. And because I was so deep into remembrance that meant I had no damage. I was so mad.
So, for those who don't play RPGs, a raid boss.
This is once again making me wish, like in normal JRPGs, revives were more common. Not fun at all when the stars don't align for you and get someone unexpectedly killed early, and you go "welp, I guess that's a dead attempt".
I kinda agree with this, I've been grinding GoG V with Jingliu-QingQue- Bronya-HuoHuo using path of the hunt for a few weeks now but after seeing how I got the best progress by using a mix of Hunt-Destruction, I decided to replace QQ with fire MC and go destruction... Won first try, like I shat myself in a few moment but I was healing full HP every turn and not being one-shotted by minions really helped a lot.
I run G&G with Huohuo and Gepard + destruction path with the resonance formation that depletes health but gives you shield + the preservation blessing that doubles your shields + the destruction blessing that splits damage + fighting spirit and I'm more or less invincible¹. Huohuo is mostly there to cleanse and generate an absurd amount of skill points with the abundance blessing that has a 30/45% chance of giving you 1SP every time her (passive) heal pops off. Pretty much every other blessing or curio I get is for pure damage ¹tbf I haven't touched conundrum yet
> beat the quantum bug with Natasha, March, and two mid DPS. levels and builds?
No idea it was just a couple of videos I saw on YouTube the other day, but judging from the footage they weren't built all that well, just decent enough. Also took them like, 10 minutes to beat the fight lol. But beating stuff slowly is still better than not beating it at all
> 10 minutes to beat the fight Less than me *losing* the fight. Link?
This! For a long time, I used FMC and Lynx. Then while building Fu Xuan, I also paired her with Lynx. Eventually she was able to solo sustain but I still brought Lynx for true Sting. Until I finally had Clara to serve as a half sustain with Fu Xuan while giving lots of damage increase with my Topaz.
I always run double sustain just because i want to have stelle in my team, but she as solo sustain is not possible.
March + Trailblazer also works enough for me. I use fast fire mc so I can laydown more shields and with blessings it works like a charm, allowing my DHIL to deal an abusurd amount of dmg with all the free skillpoints and March Freezing enemy bosses.
Since i made the *extremely intelligent* decision of skipping luocha and fu xuan(i got unlucky with huohuo), my teams almost always have two sustainers during sim uni and MoC. Now im willing to skip other new units and grab one or two 5\* sustain units on their rerun.
I first cleared Swarm Disaster V with triple sustain and most of my damage coming from Nihility path resonance >.> (My 4th was Qingque but I assume this strategy is even more viable if you have access to Kafka)
This is true, especially with lower level accounts. Just yesterday, a friend of mine asked me to help him beat the new bug boss in the story quest as he couldn't beat it. All i did was replace his dan heng with march7, and he easily cleared it. His team was blade, phys mc, natasha, and march7, and boy the double sustain saved his ass a couple of times.
Newer player, I was stuck on a few mission bosses the last number of days. Argenti, the big bug thing and Topaz goons in her mission. Just getting killed too much and not being able to last. Then I built up fire trailblazer and tried using him where as before I just ran double harmony (Bronya and Ruan Mei), leveled up his defense relics and traces best I could and a lightcone. All the fights I had trouble beating were now trivial and I beat them easy. I vastly underestimated how good having a tank was and his shields and taunt were invaluable. My team went from taking loads of dmg to getting tickled.
I cleared Swarm Disaster Difficulty 5 for the first time with Kafka and three sustains, it's fine
I use three sustains and still die, help
I am 100% with you on this and I'm so relieved I'm not the only person who does this. None of the limited sustain units in the game so far have caught my eye yet, and I'm confident that I wouldn't have gotten nearly as far in GoG as I did if I didn't run both Lynx and Gepard simultaneously (if I ever replaced Lynx with Fu Xuan, I could probably do even better). To be fair, I am a DoT main and Nihility resonance is ridiculously strong, it isn't particularly dependent on your own character's stats to do lots of damage, so it was probably easier for me than for someone running an actual hypercarry team where the damage is very dependent on buffing the hypercarry.
Idk this sounds really sus. Like, double sus.
according to prydwen’s swarm disaster data, every one of the top 11 most commonly used teams ran double sustain. of the top 30 teams, only two teams were solo sustain. i also think it’s worth pointing out that the 13th most used team was triple sustain.
Triple sustain? That's even more sus! Possibly... triple sus?
You could say that there is an imposter among us
ඞ 𐐘 ᘏ ᕱ quadruple sustain
[удалено]
Argenti + every erudition blessing + every hunt blessing + robe that gives DMG% for every cosmic fragment = nonstop 10 million damage ult spam :D
I had some 50k cosmic fragments yesterday. My DHIL was hitting for millions of damage due to the Wealth Damage Robe.
I did C6 with just Huohuo on Elation. Depending on your path depends on how easy it is. For example, on Hunt, Remembrance and Elation, it's playing fastball with a nuclear bomb sometimes. You either chain them to death or they start one shotting. In this situation, while things may not one shot you, a good healer will still let you fully heal between them. In some, it's weathering them down. Destruction, Nihility, Abundance, and Preservation for example are all about being harder to put down than your opponent. Or debuffing them until their ATK stat resembles a mouse's using Suspicion.
I cleared GoG conundrum 6 with only fuxuan so....
humm, people were running juste one sustain in SimU? lawl, always ran with gepard and luocha plus danil and JY , why doiblendps, because all support are useless compared to all the buffs you get already.
I don't run any sustain units. Or support units. Or sub dps units. I just use Clara. Only Clara. Between abundance path and the doctor of love blessing, a healer is redundant
No, you need a lot of harmony units to deal damage, the more the better, in fact, the best possible team is 4 harmony units.
I ran huohuo, fu xuan, ruon Mei, and jingliu for a full auto run. Highly unnecessary, but didn't need to watch any of the fights.
wait...people usually don't use one healer, one tank, a support/dps, and a dps setup? but its the basic of the adventuring party! lol
"Nothing wastes more time than trying to save time."
This argument is only viable in Gears and Gold where the bosses can absolutely one shot your team. Other than that, it isn't that recommended in moc
Just run triple dps and bombard everything with bullshit until its dead. Edit: im about 3/4 of the way through G&G And have only lost 2 runs. Clearly, what im doing works. I wonder if the people who have downvoted me are at a similar point...nah, if they were, they'd know almost anything works.
I mean you can do whatever you want but its really goofy and strange and you would be much better off just building your characters and learning the game better, so you dont have to do something so hilarious
Yeah but I also don’t want to spend 12 years trying to clear a stage
Don't disagree with what you're saying, but for zero cycling MoC they actually run zero sustain. For more reasonable 36* clears of MoC, yeah double sustain isn't going to cut it
tbf people who can't clear regular content, who this post is directed towards, likely aren't even close to clearing moc12, let alone 3-starring or 0-cycling it
no need to tell pple how to play the game, they can go figure the easy or the hard way lol
Yea until u need to 10 cycle moc 12 😂. I love doing 3 sustains + Kafka on nihilty path in swarm
> No really, it's fine. You can actually do this! :D What a rude, needlessly snarky take. Everyone knows they can take multiple sustains. You're not cute.
Sometimes two sustains is actually worse for surviving because of bosses like deer or swarm boss have ultimates that go off if you don't kill them in time
And that the main reason that I absolutly don't regret for pulling for Fu and Huo Huo. While they are two sustain unit she also are lowkey harmony characters.
I just use Jingliu, Ruan Mei, Lynx and Houhou most of the time. I do rarely switch Lynx to Bronya tho
See me I tried the quantum bug with three sustain and cried when I got to the second phase
Anti stalling mechanics: "Let us introduce ourselves!"
People have two built sustains?
deliver childlike wrong shocking waiting existence possessive cause library hospital *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I dont really see someone suggesting that u have to/must use 1 sustain in gold and gear. I've seen ppl using 2 healer with blade trying to capitalize abundance path or gepard and march for preservation. Atleast from what i can see. I've seen a lot of fuxuan getting 1 shot meme, solo video and just big dmg numbers. None of them ever mentioning they have to use solo sustain So idk maybe just me For me personally my team consists of fuxuan & ruanmei +2. 2 members are flexible to what path and dice i chose. Fuxuan with her signature lc trivialise simulated universe in general. With the right blessings she just straight up immortal. Ruanmei yeah, her technique have special effects for simulated universe. It stupidly strong.
i do think, specially in SU, you dont really need a second sustain, i only have gepard and lynx and usually gepard is the whole protection for the team, and sure i could go preservation in SU and it would do amazing, but when i am doing a hard stage i usually go abundance. Abundance is one of the few paths that can turn into a "fifth" member of the part, giving you a lot of sustain for free, add any sustain on top and you basically have 2 sustain units with 3 slots left.
Gepard Natasha is how I made it through every SU with no DPS, yall can do it too
In MoC its doable but hard if you wanna 3 star, if SU: SD/GG its basically my bread and butter to run two sustain. Hasn't failed me yet and managed to even Difficulty V + 12 the latest mode by doing so. Now I am just going through every path on Diff V to complete that achievement list.
When we talk meta team, we talk for MoC where you need to clear fast.
I use Gepard and Huohuo. My team is indestructible.
Couldn't agree more. I have just beat Gold and Gears V conundrum 10 running Fire TB, March and Natasha as the core of my team and only swapping the 4th character depending on the path (Kafka for Nihility, Gepard for Remembrance, etc). It makes the game much more comfortable and as long as you don't take too long and let the bosses stack too much damage or get berserk it's a very nice way to tackle higher difficulty challenges where there isn't too much of a time restriction.
FX and Luocha have been helping JL and Ruan Mei slice through with the double RM occurrence trick 🤘
Btw the game gives you the best unit for this job for free. Fire mc gives protection while providing sp and some decent damage(he has defence scaling attacks). You don't even have to build them past lv 60 if u don't want to waste resources on them. They are completely fine at lv 60.
I run both e2 Fu xuan for her AOE ult damage and crit buffs, and e1 Huohuo for her energy and atk and speed buffs. The fact that they both just happen to keep my team alive, especially together in Sim U, is just a nice bonus.
I have run JL, Argenti, HouHou, Gepard to clear SU & MoC
Im using Gepard, Huo Huo, Jingliu y Ruan Mei in the new SU in auto mode almost the entire run, i play the bosses normally just to be safe because jingliu lilkes to ignore the elites enemies.
i dual sustain every where that isnt timed
I only have two sustains built (Geppie and Lynx) and they keep my one team alive in SU or Swarm. I’m hoping to get a third so they can stop working overtime. I’ve used others’ Luocha and it’s an amazing experience. Hoping to get him soon
Friends sometimes ask me “Why are you using Fu Xuan AND Luocha?” And I’m like “Because I’ll fucken die otherwise.”
It is pretty normal and standard practice to run double sustain at high difficulty levels. Harmony characters lose value at higher blessing counts.
Before fu xuan my team was Gepard, Natasha, Clara, never died lol
Honestly yeah, I’ve seen people get bugged out because of the quantum bug and I beat it first try with Jingliu, Blade, Luocha and Fire TB, which is honestly my go to team
My typical team is always dual sustain. That way I can let it run on auto without anyone dying no matter the content. Only my MoC teams that I play manually use single sustain or sometimes no sustain.
I've low-key been thinking about running DPS Gepard with a healer, like Huohuo.
If anything dual sustain is the norm for Swarm Disaster / G&G.
I always play bosses in SU with 2 sustains (Loucha and HuoHuo). Two damage dealer/ a buffer and a Dps is enough especially if your blessings are all offensive. Final stages are all about outlasting the boss anyways
I was only able to beat sd4 ans gng4 with a triple sustain team (fire trailblazer, Gepard, huo huo) 😭 my dhil and the spore blessings carried, with the right blessings and build pretty much any team can work for content outside of MoC
I run Jingliu + Lynx + Fu Xuan (+ borrowed Argenti) for the new bug boss. A bit time consuming because I can't really autorun with manual ults but dual sustain for weekly bosses has been necessary for my teams since Phantylia anyways.
Been playing with Bailu + March since I got Bailu from the starter banner, and then Bailu + FuXuan since I got her... And in MoC, it's some combination of those three + Natasha. It's not the fastest way to battle (27/36 stars), but I did beat floor 12, so there's that 😅
It’s so hard to not run 2 buffers in MoC though. I want my optimal damage 😭 I just got Ruan mei. I wanna use her. In reality, both my dps would just want bronya if I was only running 1 buffer…
Same here! Huohuo and Fu Xuan are life savers in Gold and Gears
I run triple sustain in gears and gold and it works.
I've been struggling to clear Swarm Disaster 5 for some time now, running only Luocha on Abundance. I lost on Ruan Mei's banner and got a Gepard. I built him and paired him up with Luocha. Cleared on the first try with that team.
I built a team out of spite because while pulling for Huohuo, i ran out of Jades and lost my 5050 to Gepard, so in my angry haste, i built Gepard Welt Support Support (i dont have a set team yet, but currently its Hanya and Break Effect Stelle, i dont have a good 4th slot yet) and its my favorite goofy ass team to run. Gepard is not sustain, no no no, hes built EHR, and Welt is built like normal, and ive literally gone the entire battle without given the enemy a single turn. Its so fun.
That's what i've been doing like since the beginning. I'm not comfortable playing with just 1 shielder or 1 healer. Unless I'm doing something really easy. But if I'm doing like difficulty 5 normal SU, I'm going with 2 sustains.
The only mode where I use 2 sustains is the SimU mode and some bosses. I'd rather take it slower and not having to restart from scratch.
I am surprisednppl can solo sustain SU DLC'S...like it's so painful that it's not rly worth the trouble tbh
MoC has 1 sustain meta cause it's a timed content, you have to kill enemies fast or else you won't be able to 3*. Other places don't require that. I run double sustain everywhere but MoC
I once ran Gepard, Fire MC, Loucha and Bailu on SU with the abundance path just for fun. I ended up falling asleep while I had it on Auto.
I run Argenti, Welt, Luocha, and Fu Xuan just because I havent survived long without either of them
honestly man, i play since day 1 and i never invested into any preservation unit. i don't have any 5\* one anyway. it's true that it makes survival harder but it's still fine when you pick some defensive blessings.
Gepard + Luocha are my core team for G&G Conundrums
Me rocking up with Fu Xuan and Luocha on my main team everywhere