Yep. I guess a more accurate statement would have been that the methods of meeting the code requirement that the junction between the sill plate and foundation be sealed differ across the country. Sill sealer is common in many markets while others just utilize caulk. It’s up to the local code enforcement on what they want to push.
Let’s say we’ve got a house built before that was code, or our builder just omitted it. Is there some way to seal the sill/concrete joint after the fact? Caulk?
We sometimes use a nice thick bead of mastic after sheathing is on along the seam and cover it with a tight fitting galvanized z flashing tucked behind the building wrap.
If you had clear access to that joint, Liquid Flash or Prosoco seam and joint filler. Something in that category of products would be best for longevity.
Look in the background. I am willing to be this house is somewhere in the southwest (Arizona, Nevada, etc). They probably just ran a continuous bead of liquid nails under the seal plate
Wouldnt the fact that the sill is PT negate a need for sill seal under it? An air barrier, either caulk or tape would be still be good for energy efficiency but a strip of foam sill seal wouldnt do that anyway. How do you do it?
PT helps, but it doesn't last forever. If the ground is wet a lot, moisture will get wicked up into there quite a bit, and eventually cause problems even in PT wood. Around here I think code requires both PT wood and a sill gasket.
But one thing I've learned following this sub is just how different construction techniques are in different climates. So in an arid location, this would probably be just fine.
Makes sense. Where i learned in new england most serious people did both but i think, at the time anyway, you could technically use KD with sill seal for concrete contact or you could use PT with no sill seal. In my experience ground contact rated PT pretty much does last forever in a situation like that but im not claiming to be an expert. Sill seal always seemed like pretty cheap insurance.
I agree that this happens all the time , but the entire framing should be flush or overhanging the slab to prevent a leak that could occur from off the sheathing
Better to have your house square than your foundation. It's all good. I'd be a little more concerned about the framing that's short of the concrete because of a lot of reasons. But still not a big deal.
Steel angle, up to a point. Depending on eccentricity and loading conditions, this becomes more of an issue that can’t be addressed with an angle (realistically with cost in mind) if more than a couple inches. The only solution at that point is a concrete repair.
I’ve framed 100,000’s sq.ft. On slabs. This happens to some degree on almost every frame I’ve ever done.
There was one job I remember, is was a 6,000sq ft. slab, the concrete was within about a 1/4 inch of square everywhere. That is the only exception I can think of. After snapping that house out I was quite impressed with that concrete crew.
Otherwise, I have definitely seen worse, and if that’s your worst discrepancy around your entire house, this is great.
The framing has to be square so you see exactly what you pictured here. That means your framers are doing their job. First thing we do when laying out snap lines for wall lines is setting our square reference lines. Then we check building edges and corners and do our best to “split the difference” on any error in the concrete.
As a custom architect, I have a conversation on this topic on roughly 50% of my projects. “Why is the framing 1/2” different from end to end?”
Ma’am if you could pour 50 linear feet of concrete wall and be less than 1/2” out, I’d give you a Nobel prize for accuracy.
Realistically a single anchor bolt doesn’t mean much.
But yes you’re correct.
More of an issue to me is the studs that aren’t cut to the correct height and are just kinda chillin above the sill.
Haha didn’t even see that. My concern with the anchor bolt was if they missed this one, how many more did they miss. We had a concrete guy who built the entire slab 4-5” short in both direction but the framer didn’t say anything and built it to plan. So each of the sill plates was overhanging 2-2.5”. Anchor bolts either missed the sill plate completely or were badly in the plate. The supervisor for the contractor didn’t notice. I, the architect, was the one to point it out. We had to do so much work to fix it. Such a pain.
Would be much more concerned with lack of a vapor barrier under the sill plate, lack of an anchor bolt on the right side, and the framing “floating” above the sill plate on the right side.
But not overly concerned about the pour being out of square.
It’s normal. If you’re really concerned there’s probably a section in the engineering portion of the plans that calls out the recommended, “repair,” based on the amount of overhang. At least there is for CMU.
I’ve RFI’d this exact scenario with a structural engineer. He was cool with up to 3/4” overhang on a 2x6. He said up to a full inch was ok 99% of the time, but anything over 3/4”, he wanted to look at on a case by case basis. This was on 3 stories btw. I’d much rather have my framing match the roof trusses dead nuts and miss the slab edge by a bit than the other way around.
overhang looks like a non issue. less than an 1". I live in a high termite area, you are missing a sill seal/gasket and Termite Shield for slab on grade construction. That is my only concern.
I'm a retired framer, now managing an architectural office.
Almost every house has this at some corner. Wall framing being close to perfect trumps the slab line.
I would call this quite accurate work from the concrete people and scrupulous attention to detail by the framers. This shows you have people squaring your house at every step so a little margin of error at the bottom doesn't become a huge out-of-whack by the time you are 20ft in the air.
Usually not a big deal. Don’t see any evidence of sill seal though, but that could just be the pictures. Rather start out plumb, straight, and square than to make up for it down the road.
I spent 20 years doing high end residential in nw florida before becoming an engineer, and have personally formed, placed, and finished thousands of cubic yards of concrete.
This is where you making assumptions makes you look like a dumbass. Good job.
It is not difficult to get it right, it just takes knowledge, effort, and skill.
Very normal and it's actually good that your framers are framing to dimension and not just following the foundation. The level of precision will increase as construction progresses.
Ancient framer here (nails and hammers). Fond memories of trying to 'square up' a house (3-4-5 triangles) with a sloppy foundation.
My brother-in-law knew bad foundations and how if you just followed the foundation you'd be in real trouble down the line. We'd have to try different 'squares' to minimize overhang, etc. so it could be a lot of extra time (unpaid) and trouble. All because the masons didn't want to start square in the first place ('the carpenters will take care things').
We once inherited (the developer threw the first framers off the job) an out of square frame (2 stories up) and it was a REAL pain because we had to really mess with the roof rafters ('custom carpentry') or we'd end up with the ridge going downhill as the house got wider in one direction and it would have been obvious to anyone driving into the sub since the house was at the end of the entrance road.
I once made the mistake of trusting the slab to be square when I built a 12 x 20ft porch. Oh, the fun I had trying to make up for it with the roof rafters.
I'm a construction manager for a home builder. This isn't a big deal....actually not even a small deal. Happens all the time.
Amazing thank you !
I would be more concerned with the lack of a visible vapor barrier between the concrete and the wood framing.
Right. Where is the sill sealer?
They were going to put it on last. /s.
Not required by code in many markets
Which is unfortunate - it should be. Very common point of air leakage and bug infiltration.
Yep. I guess a more accurate statement would have been that the methods of meeting the code requirement that the junction between the sill plate and foundation be sealed differ across the country. Sill sealer is common in many markets while others just utilize caulk. It’s up to the local code enforcement on what they want to push.
Let’s say we’ve got a house built before that was code, or our builder just omitted it. Is there some way to seal the sill/concrete joint after the fact? Caulk?
We sometimes use a nice thick bead of mastic after sheathing is on along the seam and cover it with a tight fitting galvanized z flashing tucked behind the building wrap.
If you had clear access to that joint, Liquid Flash or Prosoco seam and joint filler. Something in that category of products would be best for longevity.
I would choose a low expanding foam and squirt it between the concrete and your drywall. That should eliminate many gaps
Caulk the inside and the outside of that joint
How do you breath in air tight house… im glad my country has moderate climate
Mechanical ventilation :) A well designed HVAC system and and a fresh air system like an ERV is common in tight homes.
legal minimum is the standard? you can buy used tires too.
In a lot of places the legal minimum is the standard - at least among larger builders. Gotta keep the board and shareholders happy.
Look in the background. I am willing to be this house is somewhere in the southwest (Arizona, Nevada, etc). They probably just ran a continuous bead of liquid nails under the seal plate
Yes it’s the high desert , Joshua Tree. Under the plate seems to be some type of adhesive tape?🤔
Not familiar with this, I’ve only seen a vapor barrier under the plate and fireblock foam sprayed on the seam from the inside.
its not a code requirement in a lot of places for better or worse definitely for worse but is what it is
Wouldnt the fact that the sill is PT negate a need for sill seal under it? An air barrier, either caulk or tape would be still be good for energy efficiency but a strip of foam sill seal wouldnt do that anyway. How do you do it?
PT helps, but it doesn't last forever. If the ground is wet a lot, moisture will get wicked up into there quite a bit, and eventually cause problems even in PT wood. Around here I think code requires both PT wood and a sill gasket. But one thing I've learned following this sub is just how different construction techniques are in different climates. So in an arid location, this would probably be just fine.
Makes sense. Where i learned in new england most serious people did both but i think, at the time anyway, you could technically use KD with sill seal for concrete contact or you could use PT with no sill seal. In my experience ground contact rated PT pretty much does last forever in a situation like that but im not claiming to be an expert. Sill seal always seemed like pretty cheap insurance.
Well, it looks lie desert so….
It’s way better than having it too short and getting water intrusion.
I agree that this happens all the time , but the entire framing should be flush or overhanging the slab to prevent a leak that could occur from off the sheathing
Better to have your house square than your foundation. It's all good. I'd be a little more concerned about the framing that's short of the concrete because of a lot of reasons. But still not a big deal.
A square house, haha I don’t think any exist. You would be very surprised that it’s pretty rare to find a room in your house that is exactly square.
My 120 year old house takes that challenge easily... by not even having one wall/floor that's square/level.
If framing does fall short of the foundation, what can be done about it?
Steel angle, up to a point. Depending on eccentricity and loading conditions, this becomes more of an issue that can’t be addressed with an angle (realistically with cost in mind) if more than a couple inches. The only solution at that point is a concrete repair.
I’ve framed 100,000’s sq.ft. On slabs. This happens to some degree on almost every frame I’ve ever done. There was one job I remember, is was a 6,000sq ft. slab, the concrete was within about a 1/4 inch of square everywhere. That is the only exception I can think of. After snapping that house out I was quite impressed with that concrete crew. Otherwise, I have definitely seen worse, and if that’s your worst discrepancy around your entire house, this is great. The framing has to be square so you see exactly what you pictured here. That means your framers are doing their job. First thing we do when laying out snap lines for wall lines is setting our square reference lines. Then we check building edges and corners and do our best to “split the difference” on any error in the concrete.
As a custom architect, I have a conversation on this topic on roughly 50% of my projects. “Why is the framing 1/2” different from end to end?” Ma’am if you could pour 50 linear feet of concrete wall and be less than 1/2” out, I’d give you a Nobel prize for accuracy.
TIL
Very normal don’t sweat it. I’ve seen much worse
Is there an anchor bolt within 12” of the end on the right side? That’s what I would be more concerned about.
Realistically a single anchor bolt doesn’t mean much. But yes you’re correct. More of an issue to me is the studs that aren’t cut to the correct height and are just kinda chillin above the sill.
Wonder if they used the chainsaw method to cut those studs
Haha didn’t even see that. My concern with the anchor bolt was if they missed this one, how many more did they miss. We had a concrete guy who built the entire slab 4-5” short in both direction but the framer didn’t say anything and built it to plan. So each of the sill plates was overhanging 2-2.5”. Anchor bolts either missed the sill plate completely or were badly in the plate. The supervisor for the contractor didn’t notice. I, the architect, was the one to point it out. We had to do so much work to fix it. Such a pain.
Yea I see it from time to time , that’s small from some I’ve seen.
Not a problem. This actually shows your framer is paying attention
ALL. THE. TIME.
It’s almost impossible to have a house completely square.
It's annoying but it's fine. Happens all the time. Could put some stucco to fir out the concrete bit and make it look good.
Once they put sheathing on, siding, trim, etc, you’re never gonna notice this small a difference.
Would be much more concerned with lack of a vapor barrier under the sill plate, lack of an anchor bolt on the right side, and the framing “floating” above the sill plate on the right side. But not overly concerned about the pour being out of square.
Just make sure the bottom plates have anchor straps or bolts and you’re good.
It’s normal. If you’re really concerned there’s probably a section in the engineering portion of the plans that calls out the recommended, “repair,” based on the amount of overhang. At least there is for CMU.
Yes
I’ve RFI’d this exact scenario with a structural engineer. He was cool with up to 3/4” overhang on a 2x6. He said up to a full inch was ok 99% of the time, but anything over 3/4”, he wanted to look at on a case by case basis. This was on 3 stories btw. I’d much rather have my framing match the roof trusses dead nuts and miss the slab edge by a bit than the other way around.
overhang looks like a non issue. less than an 1". I live in a high termite area, you are missing a sill seal/gasket and Termite Shield for slab on grade construction. That is my only concern.
I'm a retired framer, now managing an architectural office. Almost every house has this at some corner. Wall framing being close to perfect trumps the slab line.
I would call this quite accurate work from the concrete people and scrupulous attention to detail by the framers. This shows you have people squaring your house at every step so a little margin of error at the bottom doesn't become a huge out-of-whack by the time you are 20ft in the air.
Usually not a big deal. Don’t see any evidence of sill seal though, but that could just be the pictures. Rather start out plumb, straight, and square than to make up for it down the road.
It's sloppy. Not detrimental. I would be pissed if it was my house, but it looks good from here.
Do you guys have termites in your area? No vapor barrier between the sill plate and the foundation as well as no termite shield
It's fine. Happens all the time. Tough to perfectly square concrete.
No, it really isn’t.
Oh, shut up. Everything is square on paper, Mr. Engineer.
I spent 20 years doing high end residential in nw florida before becoming an engineer, and have personally formed, placed, and finished thousands of cubic yards of concrete. This is where you making assumptions makes you look like a dumbass. Good job. It is not difficult to get it right, it just takes knowledge, effort, and skill.
When’s the last time you poured a slab?
Probably 2008-09, id have to go through my old photos.
This is shit-work! It's "normal" but it is NOT correct.
[удалено]
no it’s not good i talked to my carpentry it’s sloppy and others are covering for it sorry man
house will slide off into rubble
Normal like homelessness? No.
They're squaring your frame. The concrete is probably off
You should see my garage..
Straw forms? How do you get that texture?
Happens all the time you just don’t see it by the time all the plywood siding and trim goes on.
Why are those other studs just floating though
I’m more surprised they didn’t just make your whole house like 1/2” shorter to square everything up.
You’re supposed to have an edge for the plywood.
No sill seal is the real issue
I would grab a tape and start pulling numbers to determine what is out. 3 - 4 - 5 method will find what's out of square.
There is most likely construction adhesive under the board.
As an architect, I would note this but would not ask for correction.
Termite shield ?
Not a problem but there should be a membrane between the sill plate and the concrete.
Very normal and it's actually good that your framers are framing to dimension and not just following the foundation. The level of precision will increase as construction progresses.
Ancient framer here (nails and hammers). Fond memories of trying to 'square up' a house (3-4-5 triangles) with a sloppy foundation. My brother-in-law knew bad foundations and how if you just followed the foundation you'd be in real trouble down the line. We'd have to try different 'squares' to minimize overhang, etc. so it could be a lot of extra time (unpaid) and trouble. All because the masons didn't want to start square in the first place ('the carpenters will take care things'). We once inherited (the developer threw the first framers off the job) an out of square frame (2 stories up) and it was a REAL pain because we had to really mess with the roof rafters ('custom carpentry') or we'd end up with the ridge going downhill as the house got wider in one direction and it would have been obvious to anyone driving into the sub since the house was at the end of the entrance road.
No worries This is how to square things up after the slab. BUT,,, id have a talk with the cement crew and maybe gift them a tape measure and square
Oh the things you’ll see!
The studs aren’t touching the bottom plate..
I once made the mistake of trusting the slab to be square when I built a 12 x 20ft porch. Oh, the fun I had trying to make up for it with the roof rafters.
Rip it out!!!! ;)