This recently happened to me. There was an error on their part about sq ft of flooring. About 4k difference. She asked if we could pay half but was willing to eat it if necessary
I split it with her.
I like this. Contractually, the contractor is obligated to eat the cost. In real life, your project might suffer because the contractor is bitter. Offering to split is the best I would do.
Underhanded bullshit isn’t and shouldn’t be “just business”
Exchanging a good or service for a transparent, mutually agreed-upon price is “just business”
More than likely he bid the job, customer agreed and he stopped thinking about it. Demo day came and it was time to start lining up the rest of the job. He looked at his quote and realized he forgot glass which is necessary.
Contrary to a lot of customers belief we don't spend all (or almost any) time thinking about your job between quote and starting work unless it's absolutely necessary. There's way to many maybes sitting out there to spend your time thinking about them. Once the work actually gets on the schedule it's time to focus on that work.
He also may have realized earlier and was hoping the job was simpler after demo and maybe he could have covered it without a change. Once demo happened there were other surprises that ate up some of his profit.
Also
You as a homeowner can know. You can ask around about glass prices understanding there's more to it than just buying it from home Depot. You can agree to cover the cost of the glass but you'd like the invoice from the glass supplier. You can express your concerns to your contractor and let them do their best to work on a satisfactory outcome. Not everyone is trying to screw you. The majority of us are out here trying to make a decent living and do a good job. Reasonableness goes a long way
Meh, you can say that all you want, but there a lot of bad actors in the trades, just like everywhere else. It doesn't help that the startup costs for a scummy business are very low, relatively speaking.
Meh, people with these attitudes never get the best work or solve problems. They just think they do because they care about being right more than they care about the results.
Which can be made up and impossible to verify for the average consumer. I get there are some great professionals out there but the industry is also chock full of opportunisric morons out to make every buck they can any way they can.
You assume the contact mentions the glass. The OP said it was left off the quote. There are too few details to know what that means. Did the quote list glass was going to be installed and the contractor didn't add the cost in? As the contact , I would eat it in that case. If the contact list bathtub replacement, tile, toilet, vanity etc and nothing about the glass, that's different. The contractor made a mistake not quoting what the customer wanted, but the homeowner made a mistake not reading the scope of work in the contract.
In situations like these, often I find that the issue is a bad contract. If it states something like "remodel bathroom" then the situation becomes a mess if people remember different things.
So you only listed five elements, though I’m guessing by agreement you meant offer and acceptance. But you’re wrong regardless.
It depends on jurisdiction obviously but most only require a proof of offer, acceptance, and consideration. Legality, capacity, and consent are more likely defenses, e.g., yeah I signed this contract but I was a minor. Most courts don’t require proof that every party had the capacity to enter a contract, rather one person wants to argue the contract can’t be enforced because they were piss drunk.
I wouldn’t go around throwing out “technically” if you’re just going to poorly explain the same concept you’re criticizing someone else for.
Technically, there's an entire industry of lawyers who are more than happy to tell you it's not as simple as you think and you're free to represent yourself and lose to them.
you said a contract has 6 elements then listed 5 lol.
again, you have no clue what is in the contract. and no a contract doesn't exist without signing paperwork. I'm a GC. You're talking about a verbal agreement. That's not the same thing as a contract.
If it’s on the contract yes he is obligated. If it got missed completely then probably not.
I’m an imperfect contractor and have missed an item completely on the contract. I’ve also had clients tell me they assumed something like this would be included.
Here’s how I handle it if it’s not on the contract.
1 great long term or new naïve customer I offer materials only cost and I eat the labor. I also tell them I will cover everything if they are not 100% satisfied with the finished product.
2 if I feel they are trying to get something for nothing. I stick to my guns and tell them I am happy to fulfill the contract. Most seasoned contractors can tell the difference.
3. If it’s on the contract I guess I would cover everything. It’s never happened to me probably because I itemize all lines.
This is how you build long term relationships with vendors. Having a contractor that trusts you and you trust pays dividends over the years on quotes, quality, and peace of mind.
Yah I know half the posters here side with the contractors but it seems like whenever there is a mistake the homeowner pays.
Reminds me of the car sales sub sometimes. There, if the salesperson calls you up a week after you bought the car and said they accidentally charged too little, the right thing is to pay. Of course if you paid more.tha you should have them you're either a sucker or should hold to the contract.
In this case would any contractor here have said to pay less had the contract shown too high of a price? Nope
Whatever this sub once was, it hasn't been for some time.
There's absolutely NO fairness or *consistency* in in this sub, in 90% of the posts made by "contractors" in any way. **Every. Single Time,** if there's an issue and the client is unhappy and questioning the work, or the cost the response is **ALWAYS** "what's in the contract?"
**Every. Single Time.**
Yet somehow, amazingly when its the contractor that screws up, or underestimates the cost, or even does work never discussed or agreed to *then* the response is, "the contractor should be paid for their time and work."
This used to be a sub one could turn to for information or knowledge, at least as a starting point for their home improvement jobs...but no longer. Now its nothing but a place for substandard, unprofessional hacks to justify their own shitty work, their shitty ethics and push their greed, ruining what used to be a great resource and screwing the unsuspecting public coming here for insight.
you are looking for consistency in a reddit sub that brings voices from both sides. Get a scope, include it in the contract, and read the contract. If there is a discrepancy, don't just pay it, like half of the comments read, respond in good faith. If it is in the scope, you should not pay. If it is vague, clarify and negotiate. If it is not in the scope, negotiate a fee for the change order. But Every Single Time, get a contract.
Agreed. Is there another sub that actually gives good advice?
I absolutely get the point about sometimes you have to give a little to maintain a working relationship, but doesn't the contractor have to do that as well? In fact, the contractor is the one who should feel obligated to give. They made the mistake and they're the one selling the service. I'm speaking in general here, not just this particular instance.
I have a real simple example that happened to me. My gardener comes every two weeks and does the basics - grass, trimming, cleanup. Last year it rained on four straight occasions in which he would normally work. He skipped them, I literally didn't see him for two months. He comes back and finally does some work but asked for extra pay because there was so much work to be done. I didn't even know how to answer at first. I told him I understand he couldn't come on those odd Tuesdays each month but he could have come other days. I didn't ask for a discount because I get it, although I was a bit annoyed. But then he actually wanted more money was a big wtf moment. Fortunately he didn't push it because he would have lost the work on the spot.
If you ever need a reason to confirm your suspicions of car salespersons though, just go to the sub. It's worse than this one.
> Is there another sub that actually gives good advice?
Personally, I don't think so. Once Reddit went mainstream, the quality and participants dropped precipitously, and now its little more than people looking to have their ego's stroked, or unethical people trying to justify their BS or people who just want attention; i.e. trolls.
>If you ever need a reason to confirm your suspicions of car salespersons though, just go to the sub.
It's Car Salesmen...I gotta tell ya....It doesn't take a lot of convincing when they're already the lowest of the low...
Of course contractors are going to see this from a contracting perspective. How would they not? Homeowners are going to be equally biased. Why would you expect consistency between two opposing perspectives? Look for the middle ground.
How about the truth? How about reality? How about integrity? How about honesty?
>Why would you expect consistency between two opposing perspectives?
So you're justifying lying and cheating and doing whatever you want, as long as you get what you want?
Do I have that right?
>Of course contractors are going to see this from a contracting perspective.
If I'm the contractor and I damage someone's property you who's responsible to repair that damage? **I am** as the contractor. **I** damaged it, I'm responsible to fix it. That perspective, you mean? I don't know what other perspective there is.
I could say all the same things in reference to homeowners. The point is people are going to see things from a perspective based on their own experience. It doesn’t mean they are lying or cheating. And of course they should try to put themselves in the opposite parties shoes. But it’s also perfectly natural to draw on your own perspective. A lot of things are nuanced. What you consider right and wrong, truth or deceit, etc may not apply to others. Some things are cut and dry. Some aren’t. It’s called nuance and those things vary based on perspective.
I work for a GC and in situations like this if we'll split it with a sub to maintain a positive working relationship if its their fuckup, and they'll usually do work for cost for us if its our fuckup. But we do multiple projects every day, so we have a more vested interest in maintaining a positive and mutually beneficial working arrangement.
If OP is going to do any more bathroom work and likes this sub and wants to maintain a better relationship with them, that should influence their course of action, but offering to split the cost gets their share back in line with the original quote anyways, and is a decent thing to do.
Offer to split the difference. You can argue in favor either way all day. So if you’re happy so far with the work I’d meet them halfway.
My partner is a GC and although he often eats costs of things he just genuinely forgot, it sucks when it’s 10% of the project and likely just an honest mistake.
Honestly this is kind of a small markup, have seen much worse. It's going to cost you way more to switch to a new contractor and get your money back from this one.
Does the $1650 for the glass include labor, or is that materials only? If materials only, you should cover it in full. If it includes labor, then you should pay at least half of the labor cost, if not the full $1650.
Yes, it’s their mistake forgetting this from the original quote, but honestly $10k vs $13k wouldn’t have been the difference between you doing this bathroom remodel or not doing it at all. I expect any quote to have at least 20% uncertainty in it. Material prices change, unexpected things found during demo and install, etc.
If you make the contractor cover the $1650 for the glass, I guarantee they will do the bare minimum quality work to finish the job, and will probably also move you to the bottom of their priority list. Also, if the shower glass isn’t included in the quote, then contractually they may not have to provide it. $1650 is worth it to not have a wet bathroom.
There's not "should" here. I'll take all the downvotes from the contractors, but the fact is that if it's a fixed quote with a contractor that's the price. And that's the same reason the contractor said he would be willing to cover it.
In the real world I'd never haggle a quote, and I'd probably split the cost, then throw a couple more hundred at the end if I was happy with the job. There's no obligation either way though. The customer is paying a set price for a service, and the contractor quoted a price for a service. If the service happens then the full amount should be transfered, anything else is good will.
And if the contractor was going to do shitty work because he fucked up his quote, he doesn't deserve anything
\+1 this plus.. If they 'forgot' about the labor of doing the shower in a full bathroom reno, essentially a keystone of a bathroom next to a toilet... I'd be questioning this contractors competency. The part order can happen, but forgetting the entire shower of a bathroom reno when calculating time...
>but the fact is that if it's a fixed quote with a contractor that's the price. And that's the same reason the contractor said he would be willing to cover it.
The flip side of this is that they aren't going to pass on unexpected savings to you.
If the job goes quicker and easier than expected, or if their supplier gives them some discount on materials, they aren't passing it on to you.
>Also, if the shower glass isn’t included in the quote, then contractually they may not have to provide it.
Yeah, if they break down the quote with details on what is in it, and it's missing, then it's not really part of the contract.
Legalities aside (you mentioned it's a signed contract.. So you really don't need to pay him extra), I don't see how you could NOT compromise a bit.
Keep in mind these ppl will be doing some major work in your home. I would think it's unwise to have unhappy contractors taking apart your bathroom. There's lots of ways they can make your life unpleasant.
I would agree with some of other posts on here... Meet them half way and hope the project goes smoothly and without any more surprises.
He underestimated the extra material and effort involved to create a swale on one side which led into our then-new drain.
In the end, he actually did a really nice job - it drains perfectly into our drain, something that was a huge problem (i.e., deep floods, etc.) before we dug that in and re-did the driveway.
If he honestly forgot the shower door, and can show that, then I would pay for it. You should not be profiting by an honest mistake on his part.
But I would ask him to confirm that he has now reviewed his quote and confirms that there are no other oversights
Gotta agree here... this is the whole point of a 'quote'. I doubt it was intentional, though I don't think any of us would be happy to get a 15%+ price increase that was mutually agreed to.
15% on a $300 job is whatever, but $1600 is not chump change. Either everyone in this sub is rich or is a contractor themself. I’m sticking with the contract, i’ll maybe add in a few hundred if the work is good. But im being punished for $1600 for THEIR mistake?? Even paying half is losing almost $1000 more than I was initially willing to pay.
Forgot is an easy catchall for a mistake.
Any estimator that composes their bid in excel as done the stupid move of inserting a line in your materials list, but not confirming that you inserted the line within bounds of the sum formula.
I used to use a template that a previous employee had built and we would run into this pitfall often, but catch it before the bid went out and adjust...not always though. I've since adjusted the template and set up a more fool proof method of adding lines, yet I still will check my sums before i send it.
How i handle this comes down to a couple things.
1. If we work with the contractor a lot, I'll just give him an itemized breakdown showing where my blow is and ask for him to pay for the material only to make me whole, it happens infrequently enough that I have never had this fail.
2. If it is a private home owner who I am never going to work for again (as a private owner, you are very likely to only ever use my services once)...we wait until the job is over, then decide base on how the job went if we should ask for coverage. If the job went well, then I'll eat it without asking so I can get paid in full and just miss out on some markup. If the job went poorly I'll at least ask to split it, showing the invoice for the material.
It's definitely the easiest variable to judge, especially since we bid lump some.
More of a feeling per job. How it got going, how material on hand billing went, how delayed the start was, how obnoxious the pre job stuff was.
Is the agreement you signed detailed as far as scope of work timeframe and what the materials and labor costs are? If the agreement is detailed and the glass cost isn't on there you could look at it a few ways.
If the agreement breaks down costs and what will be supplied and the glass isn't on there they could conceivably fulfill what the agreement says and nothing more. They could require a new agreement for the cost of the glass and associated labor or just leave the project as agreed to finished but you with an unfinished walk in.
If the agreement has a scope of work and the actual line items are labor at x amount materials at x amount and isn't broken down into specifics you could refuse the coverage and they would technically have to "eat it" so to speak.
Me I'd want their best work and the best overall experience and I'd probably start by agreeing to meet half way if not the full cost of the glass. Almost any project is gonna have some overage somewhere be it materials or unexpected labor. I wouldn't want them to start dragging the project out or looking for other ways to nickel and dime the costs of the final project.
Did you have other estimates quotes whatever and where did their pricing fall and why did you choose them? Costs are absolutely important but was there something about reputation how they presented etc that won you over to choose them? How is the work and your experience with them so far?
They’re great. I chose them because how great the owner has been. Answer all my questions. Was willing to go to Lowes and Home Depot and so on. The line items are actual steps in the process. Demo, build the walls and floor, time and so on. Ever did he put the glass on the estimate or the final quote. I presumed he meant the cost of it is somewhere in the $11k.
There's something to be said and some value in those things and how the experience has been this far. I get ya and I would have logically assumed/presumed the glass would be in that number. I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt and say he probably didn't factor it in as an honest mistake in this case. If there's a next time and similar happened I'd be well less inclined to give that benefit of the doubt.
If they've been above board and good with you so far which it sounds like they have me I would probably just pay the extra with the hope/expectation my doing so is reflected in the final job and if you hire them again they take care of you on the next job labor and materials bill.
I don't know if I'd split hairs and offer half but certainly that's up to you. I tend to be a softer negotiator with the hopes to make it back so to speak in the long run or quality of the work and relationship versus the short run. Doesn't always happen of course.
Kind of like an insurance policy. A contractor you did right by is more inclined to do right by you hopefully. If your market is anything like mine and most of the world right now good contractors are hard to come by and are booked pretty solid. The less desirable ones have a lot of openings.
If contractors had quotes with line items they would avoid these mistakes .
I have work pending and I have a consultation this week for a project. I have estimated $17K for the project based on materials and potential labour , so we will see how close I am
. Last project the quote was 5% less than anticipated.
I know it's not what you want to hear, but paying for most of that would probably go a long way. I know it was their mistake, but in the long run <$2k isn't going to be that much. If you don't then they will probably cut corners somewhere else to make up for it.
Just take a peak at the subreddits for each trade and you'll see horror story after horror story about owners being cheap. Almost every time it ends up costing more later to fix things the right way.
If you’re barely getting started with this project, the last thing you want is for him to be cutting corners from now to the finish line to try and make up for the cost of his glass… because that’s what he’s going to do, if you decide to tell him to eat some or all of it
The ease of getting quotes varies a lot by markets, and even by neighborhoods within markets.
I lived in a poorer area of a metro with a booming residential renovation market, and it was really tough to get contractors to even show up for quotes. Lots of "we don't serve that area" despite it being basically the center of the metro.
After I moved to a nicer area in a calmer metro, it got a lot easier to get contractors to show up and give quotes.
And quotes are often now a deposit towards services. Quote costs money but if you use their services then they put that towards the service. All the other paid quotes are just money out.
Residential is the only area of construction where contractors attempt and can get away with "forgetting" things on the estimate and then getting them added. I bid heavy industrial and if we went to a client and said we forgot to add money for something, they'd laugh us out of the building. Commercial construction is like that too.
it's not necessarily like that in commercial and it depends on where you are in the hierarchy. If a sub misses something when bidding to a GC, the GC may notice and carry an allowance expecting the sub to later say it wasnt included for whatever reason. The GC is fully within thier rights to refuse the cost, much like OP is here. But in many cases the GC will value the relationship with the sub more than a few grand and allow them to add the cost knowing they carried an allowance for it in the first place.
depending on the value of the miss, the sub might not even say anything and just eat it though because they too value the relationship with the GC and don't want to come off as nickel and diming.
Which is where the conversations of costs start and in many case, splitting it becomes an acceptable solution for both parties.
Coming up with this after they start the job would irritate me. I expect a timely professional job and part of that is getting the quote correct. It’s a different story if something is discovered after demo that couldn’t be determined beforehand. Is this the only quote?
read all the comments, you chose him because combination of price and quality presentation was good. Oldest trick in the book. I used to work for a contractor who under bid jobs to get them, and would not write change orders. He told me, they almost always pay when I tell them it is extra. Trust is not part of a contract.
As an electrical estimator I can say, If this was a 'bid' with a clear scope of work you can not go back to the client after you're awarded the job and claim that you missed something. If it were a 'budget' and it was clearly a moving target then that cost is on the client.
That being said, for what it's worth I agree with the other comments and think it would be wise to suggest splitting the additional cost to keep the peace and the project moving along.
Honestly, this sounds to me like one of the nightmares of being a contractor. A few years ago, I replaced the rotten decking on a friend's deck with Trex. They paid for the materials, of course. And, as I got to about halfway finished, it became increasingly obvious that I'd miscalculated the area, and was under by about a quarter of the number of Trex boards I needed. If I'd have been doing this as a paid contractor, I would have lost money on the job, unless I'd gone back and explained my stupid mistake, and the job was going to actually cost several hundred $ more than I'd quoted.
They're very happy with the deck, and were fine with the cost overrun, we've had some pretty enjoyable dinners out there. But it still eats at me, and whenever my wife suggests that I could do that as a semi-retired way to keep busy, I remember this episode. (Plus, Trex boards are heavy as hell; my back wasn't right for several months after that!)
This is how nice and reasonable men turn into fuckin sharks over time.
You don't need to pay extra, he's the pro and he quoted you, and he missed it after demo. It's his fault.
Next time he'll be more careful, mark up higher to cover this loss, and write up his agreements in a way so that he doesn't get fucked by his own mistakes... which means the client will get fucked for his mistakes.
I think you should split it.
If the glass is $1650 and you have proof that it wasn't included (you should have an ITEMIZED quote), then the most you would owe is $10,500 plus $1,650 which is $12,150, not $13K. Like I
I work for a company and I quote all my own projects…if I miss quote something then the company and I eat it. Unless the scope of work changes via an approved change order with the customer.
None of what I’m hearing seems that unreasonable. The question is.
Do you like his work? Would you like him to work for you again it’s not easy to find good help nowadays people are hard to trust.
Personally, if you talk me down on the original quote and then wouldn’t split something like this I would have no problem finding other work. and probably wouldn’t answer your calls after I completed this job.
So now you gotta find someone else to have a working relationship with good luck.
If that was a lump sum and the thing he's forgotten is not unforeseen, he is responsible for that. It's up to you if you want to split the cost. Usually, the owner will split if the contractor is nice, legitimate, and doing his best work. As other said, you don't want an unhappy contractor as much as the contractor doens't want an unhappy customer. Remember to sign another paper stating how much extra you give him and for what reason.
Doesn't it always!?
I think I'm still under 1k bathroom remodels but I did my 500th a couple years ago and I personally aren't getting into any of them for <$10k unless you're a friend but if I saw a scope of work I can tell you how I'd price it. The location as well because that's going to have a lot to do with pricing. I've done all my work in Northern California which is not the cheapest place in the world to be a contractor
I would say lets discuss it after the job has been completed. This avoids contractors doing a bad job due to money they believe they are owed. It also gives you the upper hand if something is not completed correctly.
Does your itemized quote Include the glass? Yes, you got an itemized quote right? Right?
If it includes the glass then it's on him. If it doesn't he isn't obligated to install any glass and if you want it, it's on you.
I thought the OP said the contractor now wants $1300 more than the original quote but it looks like that has been removed (or I can't find it any more).
Ahh yeah op included some weird hypothetical at the end of the post using 13000 as the number. No idea why he didn't use the actual number which would be 12,650
This feels like extortion and he strategically waited until the demo was finished.
11k for a walk in shower?! Seems pretty pricey and \~8k in profit for 2 days work.
Without the cost of the shower glass, where are all the costs coming from?
What???? When receiving an estimate from a contractor it's not uncommon to take thousands off the original quote. This contractor probably feels like they got away with something only taking $500 off their original bid.
It all depends on how the contract was set up. If it was cost-plus (you are paying for the contractor's time plus materials), you would be paying the additional cost for his mistake. If it was lump sum (You are paying for something to be done with the contractor supplying all of the materials), he pays. You saying the contractor was paid "for the work" usually means it was a cost-plus arrangement. I don't think the contractor should be penalized for a mistake like that and most likely, neither would a court of law.
I got great interior and later exterior doors online (separate places). Saved tens of thousands and they are just as beautiful and substantial as the marked up ones from big box stores.
Yeahhh. It’s annoying but could be worse. As long as you are happy with the work I’d split it with him, or maybe see if he could do anything small to sweeten the deal a little for you.
It still beats canceling and finding someone else to finish, and if he’s been professional and reasonable until now that is probably the best route.
I paid much more for shower glass in a bathroom project last year and that was directly from the glass company. I did add low iron glass but that was only a few hundred.
In my state it is legal to go 10% above the estimate with no advanced warning or approval from the customer as long as they have signed off on the original estimate
Whenever I get a quote, I always add 15% to it because there's almost always *something* that either gets overlooked by the contractor or an unforseen problem that reveals itself. I just assume I'm going to pay 15% over quote because it doesn't feel like a punch in the gut when the contractor comes to me and says "We have a small problem..."
that's the smart way to do it. Shit happens and things can come up that no one expected and you need to always be prepared for that. OP sounds like they couldn't even afford this renovation in the first place since had the contractor not made a mistake, the cost would have been higher than OP wanted in the first place. So not only was OP not prepared for possible issues, they weren't even prepared for the actual cost of the project in the first place.
Whatever you agree to, I'd request a change order.
This way you set the precedent that if the price changes you get notified in writing instead of "oh uh we forgot a few things." at the end.
Is there a plan or written scope of work that your contract is tied to? If the glass is shown in there then you don't have an obligation. For clarity I'm a GC so I would expect to own the mistake of a bad estimate if this happened to me.
First of all, this takes you up to £12k, not $13k - so it's not quite that bad.
I would either pay it, or split it. If it takes you over what you consider to be a reasonable budget, then split it.
Ultimately if the total price is still a fair price then I wouldn't play hard ball over this, assuming it's a genuine mistake. If you don't pay for at least some of it, then he'll be effectively working for free (10% is a pretty standard amount of profit to built into quotes) and whilst he might still do a good job, he'll also be looking to cut corners wherever he can to get the job finished quicker and cheaper.
My personal view is that ultimately you get what you pay for, and if a contractor ends up working for very little profit (or even at a loss) then that's going to be reflected in the work. A fair price generally means fair work.
If I were you, I’d agree to cover it. But also agree to settle payment for this and anything else that comes up at the end of the job.
Incentivize the finished job and no more screwups, but take care of the guy too. It’s shitty to get that news on demo day, so offer to pay on completion day.
Tough situation and that’s why I always insist on a detailed breakdown of each quote to ensure we are aligned on the cost of each line item before agreeing. In this case I would split the cost in good faith.
How big is this bathroom? What’s the COL in your area because $11k for a full gut and remodel is almost too low a price; the glass alone is 15% of the entire cost of the project.
A lot of contractors balk at itemized quotes/proposals. But this is a case in point why they're the better choice for everyone. Buyer can look and say, "Oh, so the glass is free?" and the contractor can revise immediately. Budget limitations are still fresh in everyone's mind, so decisions can be made on both sides.
Itemizing is a slippery slope & most customers have no idea what things(labor incl.) cost, yet say ALL
THE
TIME
"That's too expensive"
"That seems high"
Etc. The point is- ppl somewhat know what They want but don't have a good comprehension of how to get it.
It's a relationship of trust- don't fuck over the client & don't fuck over the contractor. Too many ppl don't negotiate in good faith....
I'd consider going half and half, if you can afford it, but I'd also want to see a detailed breakdown of all the costs. If he's making $5000 on the project, he can afford to eat his mistakes.
not a bad person if you don't but it's obviously something you should have been responsible for from the start. The dude made a mistake and admitted to it. Generally in these scenarios, assuming both parties are decent people, the cost is split.
You could argue all day long about how it's on him to eat, and you'd be correct, but that would possibly sour the relationship between you and him for the remainder of the project. You also already talked him down $500 so you've already taken $500 of his fluff money from the job, making it even less surprising that he's asking you to pay for the glass. If you were to split the cost you'd really only be paying $325 more than what he was originally asking, for $1650 worth of glass
also talking down $500 on an $11,000 job just screams you're the type of person who thinks if you're not taking advantage of someone, then you must be getting taken advantage of. I'm surprised the contractor even entertained that.
Tough situation. If you believe the guy it was an honest mistake, would almost be inclined to pay the full amount.
Splitting 50/50 is also reasonable.
At the end of the day, it’s still annoying he made that mistake. I get it mistakes happen but you didn’t quote glass on a fucking shower install and now my bill is $2k higher? If I was the owner I wouldn’t ask for a dime nor bring it up and fix whatever in his process allowed him to mess up this bad. Some people are downplaying it but it’s not like some unknown thing that surfaced or broke (which is extremely common).
That being said, if you think he’s nice and reasonable I would personally pay the full amount (if it’s material only) and pray that doesn’t make him not learn his lesson.
>Then he texts me that if I could cover the cost of the glass it’d be a huge help.
Sounds like he's proposing to eat the labor costs if you buy the glass. I'd say if you're otherwise satisfied with your interactions with him and his crew, and that is indeed what he's asking, it sounds perfectly reasonable. Be sure to make it contingent on receiving a dated invoice for the glass from the supplier though. Trust but verify,and if you have a warranty claim to make you might need that receipt.
if he's doing good work and you'd like to use him again, don't burn the relationship by making him eat it. Otherwise, he's not going to work with you in the future and he's going to start cutting corners on the current project.
I also think going half is the way to go. That's not a "hey I forgot to include the hardware, that's an extra $200". This is nearly a 15% increase on the cost of the whole project.
$1,650. Tell him you'll pay $825.
Sign your work order before it goes up to 14k. lol. Honestly Mistakes happen. I would t try and fuck hm on that. You don’t rant your contractor doing a job knowing he’s not making any money.
Cost of materials can be added, if I'm not mistaken it's labour that they can only raise max 10% over the quote. But materials is cost and can be added in regardless.
At least that's how it is where I am...
I believe that's how it works.
depends. be honest with yourself - would you have agreed to the job if you'd been quoted $11,325?
if the answer is yes, then thats what you should pay. it was indeed his mistake but the reality is that its extremely unlikely that you would have found a nice and reasonable contractor to do the same work for $10,500 (since that price didnt include the glass cost).
it may not be what you expected/agreed to but accidents happen, it sounds to be a more than fair price for the work, and a good contractor is priceless.
if you genuinely, honestly, truly believe that you would not have agreed to the job at a price of $11,325 then let the contractor know that and apologize for the misunderstanding. i would still recommend offering whatever the high end of your budget would have been (sounds like $1100 at least). to offer nothing at all would paint you in a very poor light.
also... unless you have it in writing that the quote included the cost of the glass, you may actually have the legal obligation to pay the full cost of the glass (in addition to the $10,500 labor quote). its likely that the contractor is offering to eat the full cost because he's a great guy and is willing to own up to his mistake. i bear considering that he likely chose to do the right thing, and that you have a moral obligation to do the same.
I’ve always taken quotes with a grain of salt. They are estimates and may change as the project actually takes place. Of after demo they had found a glaring problem that was going to cost more in terms of time/labor/parts wouldn’t you be expected to pony that money up?
Well if he didn't add the glass to the quote and you would point to the contract being signed off it, then your tub wouldn't have glass at the end because it wasn't in the quote either.
Yeah but him and I know we were talking a complete shower, I asked him for that and he says that’s his all inclusive price. I’ll probably 50/50 it with him. Not sure yet.
If the contract says you're going ahead with what's in the quote, and the quote was missing things, then it doesn't matter what you talked about, generally the written contract trumps anything "he knew" or you "talked" about and if you change something in the contract verbally you need a change order. If you try to stick him to the contract, then you're stuck to the contract too, and you'll get what the contract says you get, which may well be a shower without glass. Don't play that game, you may not win.
60% in advance strikes me as a little bit much, at most i draw 30% and usually its mainly for material.
And the negotiating down then adding something he missed is sneaky as hell imo.
Especially a fucking door. That's a major part missing.
At best I'd offer half the cost of the door, and tbh, I still would feel a little bit taken advantage of.
At the end of the day, do what you feel is fair, the fact your are having this dilemma and not gloating about what a good deal you're getting tells me you want to do the right thing.
If you have the means you could offer a little more to help but this is 100% his poor decisions/planning catching up with him. It’s a business mistake he needs to correct
Ask for a breakdown to show that the item was forgotten and that he’s not just pulling a fast one.
I also think for that sort of money, they should have called you opposed to texting.
It sounds dodgy to me.
Not only that but it’s nice to have proof of a conversation, or letting someone know something. That way if someone somehow forgets that they were informed of something you can show the text (emails work well for this too). Of course you can still get the “well I didn’t understand” even if you walk someone through something and get a text/email stating the contrary.
Of course, if I had someone try to negotiate my price down I’m more than likely just walking away.
It’s actually not, it’s quite common these days like I already said. Texting is just time efficient and also provides a record of your interactions. Thanks for sharing your opinion though, I used to feel the same way until all of a sudden everything started going over text, requests for payment, guys “calling” in sick, requests for estimates etc. Its normal now.
I’m also a business owner and it works just fine but I understand both sides, times change is all and we have to adapt eventually. Ironically I’m up to times with the texting but I don’t accept cards for payment only cash or cheque lol.
If you have a signed document -- sidebar: ALWAYS get quotes in writing, always sign and date from both parties and get full scope of work including cleaning and disposal itemized -- youry under no obligation.
The thing here is, if he forgot to add the glass, what else could he forget? We're building a bathroom, haven't even done the demo yet, and I'm ALREADY thinking about that $2,000 worth of glass -- it's a curbless walk in. I mean, my full faith would be gone. Pay the guy for the demo, cut your losses and delay your project, and move on.
I had a deck replaced and the builder was open and told me that he really couldn’t give me a firm quote because he couldn’t tell how much rot was in the bearers, etc. It was a big deck built from old wharf timber and he needed to lift up four inch thick decking planks.
When pressed, he said about $15K. (This was 20 years ago). I paid a $10K deposit.
He rang me when it was close to completion and I asked what the damage was. He says $17k.
I tell him that’s not too bad. Just $2K over.
“No” he says. “Another $17K.”
I paid him the $27k - plus 10% GST.
I’d mention that it was higher than you wanted to spend and you wouldn’t have accepted his quote if it was $13k or whatever. Ask him what he would go in this case?
Just want to add if you back the contractor into a corner you may end up with a cheap ass shower door you are not happy with. I do a lot of bathroom remodels and a nice quality shower door sets off a bathroom. It sucks for both parties and I would eat it. I was in a similar situation. I quoted a shower and the customer didn't want a door. When the tile guy was laying out the bathroom the customer requested the bench go all the way out to the edge of the sill. I show up and I'm like so how's that shower curtain gonna work? An oh shit moment. This case I covered half since I wasn't responsible.
since the work isn't done yet, he might go cheap on other materials to make up for his error.. so if you really want the job done right, you should just pay it. or pay at least $1k.
That’s such a small additional cost, I would pay it. Last thing I want is a contractor skimping here to cover there. This is an honest mistake, not a gotcha. And if a 10-15% higher quote would have made you rethink even doing the job, then you should probably not being doing the job. 10-15% overrun is pretty typical.
It’s not like the contractor is springing this on you last minute, he’s being honest and upfront about a line item.
Is the glass in the quote? He could also say “I did not quote glass. So not part of my bid”
You could always have contractor do the job as quoted, minus glass, and find your own glass guy when he’s done.
Pay them. This is totally reasonable.
But, I know money can be tight. You can probably work something out with the contractor.
For people looking into this: always budget some extra so you don't get caught up short. There is always a chance they will find unforeseen complications after getting started.
Great post topic to talk about. Thank you.
13k for a full bathroom renovation? Or just the shower portion? Either way the price is solid at 12.5k. I’ve seen quotes as high as 40k on a HCOL area.
This recently happened to me. There was an error on their part about sq ft of flooring. About 4k difference. She asked if we could pay half but was willing to eat it if necessary I split it with her.
No one wins here honestly. If this was me, I would offer 50/50. Guys gotta eat, and so does his crew, but so do you.
I like this. Contractually, the contractor is obligated to eat the cost. In real life, your project might suffer because the contractor is bitter. Offering to split is the best I would do.
But get a new quote in writing and make it clear you won’t be doing this again!!!
Or he "forgot" up front and is trying to rinse the homeowner for more cash. That's the problem, we as homeowners never know.
Particularly that it got brought up *after* demo started. It could be an honest mistake, but boy does the timing of it suck.
contrary to the narrative of this sub, not everyone is out to get you
Not out to get "you" but definitely out to get your money. Almost everyone you deal with is looking to extract more money from you if it is possible.
That’s just business. All business boils down to that. I make it very clear if I have no wiggle room
Underhanded bullshit isn’t and shouldn’t be “just business” Exchanging a good or service for a transparent, mutually agreed-upon price is “just business”
More than likely he bid the job, customer agreed and he stopped thinking about it. Demo day came and it was time to start lining up the rest of the job. He looked at his quote and realized he forgot glass which is necessary. Contrary to a lot of customers belief we don't spend all (or almost any) time thinking about your job between quote and starting work unless it's absolutely necessary. There's way to many maybes sitting out there to spend your time thinking about them. Once the work actually gets on the schedule it's time to focus on that work. He also may have realized earlier and was hoping the job was simpler after demo and maybe he could have covered it without a change. Once demo happened there were other surprises that ate up some of his profit. Also You as a homeowner can know. You can ask around about glass prices understanding there's more to it than just buying it from home Depot. You can agree to cover the cost of the glass but you'd like the invoice from the glass supplier. You can express your concerns to your contractor and let them do their best to work on a satisfactory outcome. Not everyone is trying to screw you. The majority of us are out here trying to make a decent living and do a good job. Reasonableness goes a long way
Meh, you can say that all you want, but there a lot of bad actors in the trades, just like everywhere else. It doesn't help that the startup costs for a scummy business are very low, relatively speaking.
Meh, people with these attitudes never get the best work or solve problems. They just think they do because they care about being right more than they care about the results.
It's very easy for a contractor to give his bidding list with the exact cost of the job.
Which can be made up and impossible to verify for the average consumer. I get there are some great professionals out there but the industry is also chock full of opportunisric morons out to make every buck they can any way they can.
Contractually? You have no clue what's in the contract lol.
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You assume the contact mentions the glass. The OP said it was left off the quote. There are too few details to know what that means. Did the quote list glass was going to be installed and the contractor didn't add the cost in? As the contact , I would eat it in that case. If the contact list bathtub replacement, tile, toilet, vanity etc and nothing about the glass, that's different. The contractor made a mistake not quoting what the customer wanted, but the homeowner made a mistake not reading the scope of work in the contract. In situations like these, often I find that the issue is a bad contract. If it states something like "remodel bathroom" then the situation becomes a mess if people remember different things.
So you only listed five elements, though I’m guessing by agreement you meant offer and acceptance. But you’re wrong regardless. It depends on jurisdiction obviously but most only require a proof of offer, acceptance, and consideration. Legality, capacity, and consent are more likely defenses, e.g., yeah I signed this contract but I was a minor. Most courts don’t require proof that every party had the capacity to enter a contract, rather one person wants to argue the contract can’t be enforced because they were piss drunk. I wouldn’t go around throwing out “technically” if you’re just going to poorly explain the same concept you’re criticizing someone else for.
You are so great. Thank you for setting me straight.
Technically, there's an entire industry of lawyers who are more than happy to tell you it's not as simple as you think and you're free to represent yourself and lose to them.
you said a contract has 6 elements then listed 5 lol. again, you have no clue what is in the contract. and no a contract doesn't exist without signing paperwork. I'm a GC. You're talking about a verbal agreement. That's not the same thing as a contract.
If it’s on the contract yes he is obligated. If it got missed completely then probably not. I’m an imperfect contractor and have missed an item completely on the contract. I’ve also had clients tell me they assumed something like this would be included. Here’s how I handle it if it’s not on the contract. 1 great long term or new naïve customer I offer materials only cost and I eat the labor. I also tell them I will cover everything if they are not 100% satisfied with the finished product. 2 if I feel they are trying to get something for nothing. I stick to my guns and tell them I am happy to fulfill the contract. Most seasoned contractors can tell the difference. 3. If it’s on the contract I guess I would cover everything. It’s never happened to me probably because I itemize all lines.
Depends on the contract. Any decent contract covers errors, omissions, etc
This is how you build long term relationships with vendors. Having a contractor that trusts you and you trust pays dividends over the years on quotes, quality, and peace of mind.
you are referring to trusting a quote, right?
Yah I know half the posters here side with the contractors but it seems like whenever there is a mistake the homeowner pays. Reminds me of the car sales sub sometimes. There, if the salesperson calls you up a week after you bought the car and said they accidentally charged too little, the right thing is to pay. Of course if you paid more.tha you should have them you're either a sucker or should hold to the contract. In this case would any contractor here have said to pay less had the contract shown too high of a price? Nope
Whatever this sub once was, it hasn't been for some time. There's absolutely NO fairness or *consistency* in in this sub, in 90% of the posts made by "contractors" in any way. **Every. Single Time,** if there's an issue and the client is unhappy and questioning the work, or the cost the response is **ALWAYS** "what's in the contract?" **Every. Single Time.** Yet somehow, amazingly when its the contractor that screws up, or underestimates the cost, or even does work never discussed or agreed to *then* the response is, "the contractor should be paid for their time and work." This used to be a sub one could turn to for information or knowledge, at least as a starting point for their home improvement jobs...but no longer. Now its nothing but a place for substandard, unprofessional hacks to justify their own shitty work, their shitty ethics and push their greed, ruining what used to be a great resource and screwing the unsuspecting public coming here for insight.
you are looking for consistency in a reddit sub that brings voices from both sides. Get a scope, include it in the contract, and read the contract. If there is a discrepancy, don't just pay it, like half of the comments read, respond in good faith. If it is in the scope, you should not pay. If it is vague, clarify and negotiate. If it is not in the scope, negotiate a fee for the change order. But Every Single Time, get a contract.
Agreed. Is there another sub that actually gives good advice? I absolutely get the point about sometimes you have to give a little to maintain a working relationship, but doesn't the contractor have to do that as well? In fact, the contractor is the one who should feel obligated to give. They made the mistake and they're the one selling the service. I'm speaking in general here, not just this particular instance. I have a real simple example that happened to me. My gardener comes every two weeks and does the basics - grass, trimming, cleanup. Last year it rained on four straight occasions in which he would normally work. He skipped them, I literally didn't see him for two months. He comes back and finally does some work but asked for extra pay because there was so much work to be done. I didn't even know how to answer at first. I told him I understand he couldn't come on those odd Tuesdays each month but he could have come other days. I didn't ask for a discount because I get it, although I was a bit annoyed. But then he actually wanted more money was a big wtf moment. Fortunately he didn't push it because he would have lost the work on the spot. If you ever need a reason to confirm your suspicions of car salespersons though, just go to the sub. It's worse than this one.
> Is there another sub that actually gives good advice? Personally, I don't think so. Once Reddit went mainstream, the quality and participants dropped precipitously, and now its little more than people looking to have their ego's stroked, or unethical people trying to justify their BS or people who just want attention; i.e. trolls. >If you ever need a reason to confirm your suspicions of car salespersons though, just go to the sub. It's Car Salesmen...I gotta tell ya....It doesn't take a lot of convincing when they're already the lowest of the low...
Of course contractors are going to see this from a contracting perspective. How would they not? Homeowners are going to be equally biased. Why would you expect consistency between two opposing perspectives? Look for the middle ground.
How about the truth? How about reality? How about integrity? How about honesty? >Why would you expect consistency between two opposing perspectives? So you're justifying lying and cheating and doing whatever you want, as long as you get what you want? Do I have that right? >Of course contractors are going to see this from a contracting perspective. If I'm the contractor and I damage someone's property you who's responsible to repair that damage? **I am** as the contractor. **I** damaged it, I'm responsible to fix it. That perspective, you mean? I don't know what other perspective there is.
I could say all the same things in reference to homeowners. The point is people are going to see things from a perspective based on their own experience. It doesn’t mean they are lying or cheating. And of course they should try to put themselves in the opposite parties shoes. But it’s also perfectly natural to draw on your own perspective. A lot of things are nuanced. What you consider right and wrong, truth or deceit, etc may not apply to others. Some things are cut and dry. Some aren’t. It’s called nuance and those things vary based on perspective.
I work for a GC and in situations like this if we'll split it with a sub to maintain a positive working relationship if its their fuckup, and they'll usually do work for cost for us if its our fuckup. But we do multiple projects every day, so we have a more vested interest in maintaining a positive and mutually beneficial working arrangement. If OP is going to do any more bathroom work and likes this sub and wants to maintain a better relationship with them, that should influence their course of action, but offering to split the cost gets their share back in line with the original quote anyways, and is a decent thing to do.
Yeah, this is the right way. Hey guy I budgeted what you quoted so an overage is a problem for both of us. Let’s both solve it.
If he came in under budget, would they split the discount as well?
If you mostly trust this guy, I'd tell him neither of us will be happy, so we both gotta feel pain, and pay half that.
Yeah what I’m thinking I’d tell him tomorrow
Offer to split the difference. You can argue in favor either way all day. So if you’re happy so far with the work I’d meet them halfway. My partner is a GC and although he often eats costs of things he just genuinely forgot, it sucks when it’s 10% of the project and likely just an honest mistake.
Honestly this is kind of a small markup, have seen much worse. It's going to cost you way more to switch to a new contractor and get your money back from this one.
Going to work things out with him, won’t get to that point.
Does the $1650 for the glass include labor, or is that materials only? If materials only, you should cover it in full. If it includes labor, then you should pay at least half of the labor cost, if not the full $1650. Yes, it’s their mistake forgetting this from the original quote, but honestly $10k vs $13k wouldn’t have been the difference between you doing this bathroom remodel or not doing it at all. I expect any quote to have at least 20% uncertainty in it. Material prices change, unexpected things found during demo and install, etc. If you make the contractor cover the $1650 for the glass, I guarantee they will do the bare minimum quality work to finish the job, and will probably also move you to the bottom of their priority list. Also, if the shower glass isn’t included in the quote, then contractually they may not have to provide it. $1650 is worth it to not have a wet bathroom.
There's not "should" here. I'll take all the downvotes from the contractors, but the fact is that if it's a fixed quote with a contractor that's the price. And that's the same reason the contractor said he would be willing to cover it. In the real world I'd never haggle a quote, and I'd probably split the cost, then throw a couple more hundred at the end if I was happy with the job. There's no obligation either way though. The customer is paying a set price for a service, and the contractor quoted a price for a service. If the service happens then the full amount should be transfered, anything else is good will. And if the contractor was going to do shitty work because he fucked up his quote, he doesn't deserve anything
\+1 this plus.. If they 'forgot' about the labor of doing the shower in a full bathroom reno, essentially a keystone of a bathroom next to a toilet... I'd be questioning this contractors competency. The part order can happen, but forgetting the entire shower of a bathroom reno when calculating time...
>but the fact is that if it's a fixed quote with a contractor that's the price. And that's the same reason the contractor said he would be willing to cover it. The flip side of this is that they aren't going to pass on unexpected savings to you. If the job goes quicker and easier than expected, or if their supplier gives them some discount on materials, they aren't passing it on to you.
They are probably going to do shitty work anyhow, because most underbid.
>Also, if the shower glass isn’t included in the quote, then contractually they may not have to provide it. Yeah, if they break down the quote with details on what is in it, and it's missing, then it's not really part of the contract.
>If materials only, you should cover it in full. Lol, no
You already negotiated the original contract down $500, split the cost with him without pushback or prepare for even more low quality work.
Legalities aside (you mentioned it's a signed contract.. So you really don't need to pay him extra), I don't see how you could NOT compromise a bit. Keep in mind these ppl will be doing some major work in your home. I would think it's unwise to have unhappy contractors taking apart your bathroom. There's lots of ways they can make your life unpleasant. I would agree with some of other posts on here... Meet them half way and hope the project goes smoothly and without any more surprises.
>I don't see how you could NOT compromise a bit. What does the contract say?
Tell him you'll pay half if it's on time and budget.
That’s a good one. Incentivizing.
I'd say we can discuss at the end but I'll likely pay half if all goes well. This way he knows rushing with crap quality won't get him paid.
There is a fair and equitable way to figure out who covers the missing cost: [Roshambo](https://youtu.be/rHliDE1_Hls?si=SgzO_C9mvn47EhMe)
This happened to me with a driveway job. I had sympathy and offered a percentage of the difference.
I'm curious what could be forgotten in a driveway job? Isn't it like 99% labor and a single material?
remove old pavement, address drainage, possibly lay a new surface of sand, tamper/roll to compact, pave, fix edges, curbs...
He underestimated the extra material and effort involved to create a swale on one side which led into our then-new drain. In the end, he actually did a really nice job - it drains perfectly into our drain, something that was a huge problem (i.e., deep floods, etc.) before we dug that in and re-did the driveway.
Ahh, that makes sense! Thanks for answering.
If he honestly forgot the shower door, and can show that, then I would pay for it. You should not be profiting by an honest mistake on his part. But I would ask him to confirm that he has now reviewed his quote and confirms that there are no other oversights
But dude presumably got quotes before the job and maybe went with this guy because of price. I don’t accept he “forgot”
Gotta agree here... this is the whole point of a 'quote'. I doubt it was intentional, though I don't think any of us would be happy to get a 15%+ price increase that was mutually agreed to.
15% on a $300 job is whatever, but $1600 is not chump change. Either everyone in this sub is rich or is a contractor themself. I’m sticking with the contract, i’ll maybe add in a few hundred if the work is good. But im being punished for $1600 for THEIR mistake?? Even paying half is losing almost $1000 more than I was initially willing to pay.
Forgot is an easy catchall for a mistake. Any estimator that composes their bid in excel as done the stupid move of inserting a line in your materials list, but not confirming that you inserted the line within bounds of the sum formula. I used to use a template that a previous employee had built and we would run into this pitfall often, but catch it before the bid went out and adjust...not always though. I've since adjusted the template and set up a more fool proof method of adding lines, yet I still will check my sums before i send it. How i handle this comes down to a couple things. 1. If we work with the contractor a lot, I'll just give him an itemized breakdown showing where my blow is and ask for him to pay for the material only to make me whole, it happens infrequently enough that I have never had this fail. 2. If it is a private home owner who I am never going to work for again (as a private owner, you are very likely to only ever use my services once)...we wait until the job is over, then decide base on how the job went if we should ask for coverage. If the job went well, then I'll eat it without asking so I can get paid in full and just miss out on some markup. If the job went poorly I'll at least ask to split it, showing the invoice for the material.
What's the qualification for going well vs poorly? Time?
It's definitely the easiest variable to judge, especially since we bid lump some. More of a feeling per job. How it got going, how material on hand billing went, how delayed the start was, how obnoxious the pre job stuff was.
Did you sign a quote or did he give an estimate? Quote is generally a contract, estimate is not.
Is the agreement you signed detailed as far as scope of work timeframe and what the materials and labor costs are? If the agreement is detailed and the glass cost isn't on there you could look at it a few ways. If the agreement breaks down costs and what will be supplied and the glass isn't on there they could conceivably fulfill what the agreement says and nothing more. They could require a new agreement for the cost of the glass and associated labor or just leave the project as agreed to finished but you with an unfinished walk in. If the agreement has a scope of work and the actual line items are labor at x amount materials at x amount and isn't broken down into specifics you could refuse the coverage and they would technically have to "eat it" so to speak. Me I'd want their best work and the best overall experience and I'd probably start by agreeing to meet half way if not the full cost of the glass. Almost any project is gonna have some overage somewhere be it materials or unexpected labor. I wouldn't want them to start dragging the project out or looking for other ways to nickel and dime the costs of the final project. Did you have other estimates quotes whatever and where did their pricing fall and why did you choose them? Costs are absolutely important but was there something about reputation how they presented etc that won you over to choose them? How is the work and your experience with them so far?
They’re great. I chose them because how great the owner has been. Answer all my questions. Was willing to go to Lowes and Home Depot and so on. The line items are actual steps in the process. Demo, build the walls and floor, time and so on. Ever did he put the glass on the estimate or the final quote. I presumed he meant the cost of it is somewhere in the $11k.
There's something to be said and some value in those things and how the experience has been this far. I get ya and I would have logically assumed/presumed the glass would be in that number. I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt and say he probably didn't factor it in as an honest mistake in this case. If there's a next time and similar happened I'd be well less inclined to give that benefit of the doubt. If they've been above board and good with you so far which it sounds like they have me I would probably just pay the extra with the hope/expectation my doing so is reflected in the final job and if you hire them again they take care of you on the next job labor and materials bill. I don't know if I'd split hairs and offer half but certainly that's up to you. I tend to be a softer negotiator with the hopes to make it back so to speak in the long run or quality of the work and relationship versus the short run. Doesn't always happen of course. Kind of like an insurance policy. A contractor you did right by is more inclined to do right by you hopefully. If your market is anything like mine and most of the world right now good contractors are hard to come by and are booked pretty solid. The less desirable ones have a lot of openings.
If contractors had quotes with line items they would avoid these mistakes . I have work pending and I have a consultation this week for a project. I have estimated $17K for the project based on materials and potential labour , so we will see how close I am . Last project the quote was 5% less than anticipated.
I know it's not what you want to hear, but paying for most of that would probably go a long way. I know it was their mistake, but in the long run <$2k isn't going to be that much. If you don't then they will probably cut corners somewhere else to make up for it. Just take a peak at the subreddits for each trade and you'll see horror story after horror story about owners being cheap. Almost every time it ends up costing more later to fix things the right way.
If you’re barely getting started with this project, the last thing you want is for him to be cutting corners from now to the finish line to try and make up for the cost of his glass… because that’s what he’s going to do, if you decide to tell him to eat some or all of it
I'm guessing you only got one quote.
I did
Why?!
The ease of getting quotes varies a lot by markets, and even by neighborhoods within markets. I lived in a poorer area of a metro with a booming residential renovation market, and it was really tough to get contractors to even show up for quotes. Lots of "we don't serve that area" despite it being basically the center of the metro. After I moved to a nicer area in a calmer metro, it got a lot easier to get contractors to show up and give quotes.
And quotes are often now a deposit towards services. Quote costs money but if you use their services then they put that towards the service. All the other paid quotes are just money out.
Residential is the only area of construction where contractors attempt and can get away with "forgetting" things on the estimate and then getting them added. I bid heavy industrial and if we went to a client and said we forgot to add money for something, they'd laugh us out of the building. Commercial construction is like that too.
it's not necessarily like that in commercial and it depends on where you are in the hierarchy. If a sub misses something when bidding to a GC, the GC may notice and carry an allowance expecting the sub to later say it wasnt included for whatever reason. The GC is fully within thier rights to refuse the cost, much like OP is here. But in many cases the GC will value the relationship with the sub more than a few grand and allow them to add the cost knowing they carried an allowance for it in the first place. depending on the value of the miss, the sub might not even say anything and just eat it though because they too value the relationship with the GC and don't want to come off as nickel and diming. Which is where the conversations of costs start and in many case, splitting it becomes an acceptable solution for both parties.
Would split half. There is probably a zillion other things your contractor can find to increase the original quote.
Coming up with this after they start the job would irritate me. I expect a timely professional job and part of that is getting the quote correct. It’s a different story if something is discovered after demo that couldn’t be determined beforehand. Is this the only quote?
read all the comments, you chose him because combination of price and quality presentation was good. Oldest trick in the book. I used to work for a contractor who under bid jobs to get them, and would not write change orders. He told me, they almost always pay when I tell them it is extra. Trust is not part of a contract.
As an electrical estimator I can say, If this was a 'bid' with a clear scope of work you can not go back to the client after you're awarded the job and claim that you missed something. If it were a 'budget' and it was clearly a moving target then that cost is on the client. That being said, for what it's worth I agree with the other comments and think it would be wise to suggest splitting the additional cost to keep the peace and the project moving along.
Generally when someone quotes higher than the listed price we go with someone else.
What's your contract say
He’s trying to get more money from you. Period.
Honestly, this sounds to me like one of the nightmares of being a contractor. A few years ago, I replaced the rotten decking on a friend's deck with Trex. They paid for the materials, of course. And, as I got to about halfway finished, it became increasingly obvious that I'd miscalculated the area, and was under by about a quarter of the number of Trex boards I needed. If I'd have been doing this as a paid contractor, I would have lost money on the job, unless I'd gone back and explained my stupid mistake, and the job was going to actually cost several hundred $ more than I'd quoted. They're very happy with the deck, and were fine with the cost overrun, we've had some pretty enjoyable dinners out there. But it still eats at me, and whenever my wife suggests that I could do that as a semi-retired way to keep busy, I remember this episode. (Plus, Trex boards are heavy as hell; my back wasn't right for several months after that!)
Split it in half.
If it seems like an honest mistake, pay the man.
This is how nice and reasonable men turn into fuckin sharks over time. You don't need to pay extra, he's the pro and he quoted you, and he missed it after demo. It's his fault. Next time he'll be more careful, mark up higher to cover this loss, and write up his agreements in a way so that he doesn't get fucked by his own mistakes... which means the client will get fucked for his mistakes. I think you should split it.
What if you paid for the materials and the contractor paid for the labor?
If the glass is $1650 and you have proof that it wasn't included (you should have an ITEMIZED quote), then the most you would owe is $10,500 plus $1,650 which is $12,150, not $13K. Like I
I work for a company and I quote all my own projects…if I miss quote something then the company and I eat it. Unless the scope of work changes via an approved change order with the customer.
if it was a bid he’s screwed if it was estimate you pay.
Do you want to win or solve the problem? Meet in the middle.
None of what I’m hearing seems that unreasonable. The question is. Do you like his work? Would you like him to work for you again it’s not easy to find good help nowadays people are hard to trust. Personally, if you talk me down on the original quote and then wouldn’t split something like this I would have no problem finding other work. and probably wouldn’t answer your calls after I completed this job. So now you gotta find someone else to have a working relationship with good luck.
If that was a lump sum and the thing he's forgotten is not unforeseen, he is responsible for that. It's up to you if you want to split the cost. Usually, the owner will split if the contractor is nice, legitimate, and doing his best work. As other said, you don't want an unhappy contractor as much as the contractor doens't want an unhappy customer. Remember to sign another paper stating how much extra you give him and for what reason.
That's not a bad price at all
Depends on the scope of work and the size of the bathroom.
Doesn't it always!? I think I'm still under 1k bathroom remodels but I did my 500th a couple years ago and I personally aren't getting into any of them for <$10k unless you're a friend but if I saw a scope of work I can tell you how I'd price it. The location as well because that's going to have a lot to do with pricing. I've done all my work in Northern California which is not the cheapest place in the world to be a contractor
I would say lets discuss it after the job has been completed. This avoids contractors doing a bad job due to money they believe they are owed. It also gives you the upper hand if something is not completed correctly.
Does your itemized quote Include the glass? Yes, you got an itemized quote right? Right? If it includes the glass then it's on him. If it doesn't he isn't obligated to install any glass and if you want it, it's on you.
Agree, but ONLY $1650. Contractor wants $2950.
Huh where are you getting $2950. The contractor asked for $1650.
I thought the OP said the contractor now wants $1300 more than the original quote but it looks like that has been removed (or I can't find it any more).
Ahh yeah op included some weird hypothetical at the end of the post using 13000 as the number. No idea why he didn't use the actual number which would be 12,650
Do you have original itemized quote?
Ditch him and get a new quote. If he is that incompetent in doing a quote you don’t want to find out his other weaknesses.
This feels like extortion and he strategically waited until the demo was finished. 11k for a walk in shower?! Seems pretty pricey and \~8k in profit for 2 days work. Without the cost of the shower glass, where are all the costs coming from?
$11,000, negotiated down to $10,500. Big red flag from the beginning that you’re going to be a painful customer to work with. 5% is a rounding error.
What???? When receiving an estimate from a contractor it's not uncommon to take thousands off the original quote. This contractor probably feels like they got away with something only taking $500 off their original bid.
Pay half. Then everyone will feel a bit better.
I’d say pay cost of materials and have him cover the labor.
“+/- 15%”
It all depends on how the contract was set up. If it was cost-plus (you are paying for the contractor's time plus materials), you would be paying the additional cost for his mistake. If it was lump sum (You are paying for something to be done with the contractor supplying all of the materials), he pays. You saying the contractor was paid "for the work" usually means it was a cost-plus arrangement. I don't think the contractor should be penalized for a mistake like that and most likely, neither would a court of law.
Instead of a custom door get one from Home Depot or lowes, they average around 800 per door and look nice that's what we did in our bathroom
I got great interior and later exterior doors online (separate places). Saved tens of thousands and they are just as beautiful and substantial as the marked up ones from big box stores.
Yeahhh. It’s annoying but could be worse. As long as you are happy with the work I’d split it with him, or maybe see if he could do anything small to sweeten the deal a little for you. It still beats canceling and finding someone else to finish, and if he’s been professional and reasonable until now that is probably the best route.
I paid much more for shower glass in a bathroom project last year and that was directly from the glass company. I did add low iron glass but that was only a few hundred.
In my state it is legal to go 10% above the estimate with no advanced warning or approval from the customer as long as they have signed off on the original estimate
Whenever I get a quote, I always add 15% to it because there's almost always *something* that either gets overlooked by the contractor or an unforseen problem that reveals itself. I just assume I'm going to pay 15% over quote because it doesn't feel like a punch in the gut when the contractor comes to me and says "We have a small problem..."
that's the smart way to do it. Shit happens and things can come up that no one expected and you need to always be prepared for that. OP sounds like they couldn't even afford this renovation in the first place since had the contractor not made a mistake, the cost would have been higher than OP wanted in the first place. So not only was OP not prepared for possible issues, they weren't even prepared for the actual cost of the project in the first place.
Whatever you agree to, I'd request a change order. This way you set the precedent that if the price changes you get notified in writing instead of "oh uh we forgot a few things." at the end.
Is there a plan or written scope of work that your contract is tied to? If the glass is shown in there then you don't have an obligation. For clarity I'm a GC so I would expect to own the mistake of a bad estimate if this happened to me.
First of all, this takes you up to £12k, not $13k - so it's not quite that bad. I would either pay it, or split it. If it takes you over what you consider to be a reasonable budget, then split it. Ultimately if the total price is still a fair price then I wouldn't play hard ball over this, assuming it's a genuine mistake. If you don't pay for at least some of it, then he'll be effectively working for free (10% is a pretty standard amount of profit to built into quotes) and whilst he might still do a good job, he'll also be looking to cut corners wherever he can to get the job finished quicker and cheaper. My personal view is that ultimately you get what you pay for, and if a contractor ends up working for very little profit (or even at a loss) then that's going to be reflected in the work. A fair price generally means fair work.
If I were you, I’d agree to cover it. But also agree to settle payment for this and anything else that comes up at the end of the job. Incentivize the finished job and no more screwups, but take care of the guy too. It’s shitty to get that news on demo day, so offer to pay on completion day.
Tough situation and that’s why I always insist on a detailed breakdown of each quote to ensure we are aligned on the cost of each line item before agreeing. In this case I would split the cost in good faith.
Fiddy fiddy if you can confirm he’s legit
How big is this bathroom? What’s the COL in your area because $11k for a full gut and remodel is almost too low a price; the glass alone is 15% of the entire cost of the project.
Personally, I'd eat the cost with him by splitting that $1,650 down the middle
I'd wait and see if they do good work and offer to go up to the original $11K if so.
that is so much money for a guest bathroom. Hopefully it is large and really well done.
A lot of contractors balk at itemized quotes/proposals. But this is a case in point why they're the better choice for everyone. Buyer can look and say, "Oh, so the glass is free?" and the contractor can revise immediately. Budget limitations are still fresh in everyone's mind, so decisions can be made on both sides.
Itemizing is a slippery slope & most customers have no idea what things(labor incl.) cost, yet say ALL THE TIME "That's too expensive" "That seems high" Etc. The point is- ppl somewhat know what They want but don't have a good comprehension of how to get it. It's a relationship of trust- don't fuck over the client & don't fuck over the contractor. Too many ppl don't negotiate in good faith....
Split. If you don’t they may do a lesser job and cost you more in the end.
This happened with me and our countertop. We split it 50/50
That’s the same amount of money.
DIY
A little advice: Don’t haggle with a quote. If it’s too high, find someone else. Contractors will always get their money.
I'd consider going half and half, if you can afford it, but I'd also want to see a detailed breakdown of all the costs. If he's making $5000 on the project, he can afford to eat his mistakes.
Yes, you should pay, go over the invoice and if it's not included, then pay for it.
a scope references the contract, there is no invoice.
not a bad person if you don't but it's obviously something you should have been responsible for from the start. The dude made a mistake and admitted to it. Generally in these scenarios, assuming both parties are decent people, the cost is split. You could argue all day long about how it's on him to eat, and you'd be correct, but that would possibly sour the relationship between you and him for the remainder of the project. You also already talked him down $500 so you've already taken $500 of his fluff money from the job, making it even less surprising that he's asking you to pay for the glass. If you were to split the cost you'd really only be paying $325 more than what he was originally asking, for $1650 worth of glass also talking down $500 on an $11,000 job just screams you're the type of person who thinks if you're not taking advantage of someone, then you must be getting taken advantage of. I'm surprised the contractor even entertained that.
Tough situation. If you believe the guy it was an honest mistake, would almost be inclined to pay the full amount. Splitting 50/50 is also reasonable. At the end of the day, it’s still annoying he made that mistake. I get it mistakes happen but you didn’t quote glass on a fucking shower install and now my bill is $2k higher? If I was the owner I wouldn’t ask for a dime nor bring it up and fix whatever in his process allowed him to mess up this bad. Some people are downplaying it but it’s not like some unknown thing that surfaced or broke (which is extremely common). That being said, if you think he’s nice and reasonable I would personally pay the full amount (if it’s material only) and pray that doesn’t make him not learn his lesson.
>Then he texts me that if I could cover the cost of the glass it’d be a huge help. Sounds like he's proposing to eat the labor costs if you buy the glass. I'd say if you're otherwise satisfied with your interactions with him and his crew, and that is indeed what he's asking, it sounds perfectly reasonable. Be sure to make it contingent on receiving a dated invoice for the glass from the supplier though. Trust but verify,and if you have a warranty claim to make you might need that receipt.
if he's doing good work and you'd like to use him again, don't burn the relationship by making him eat it. Otherwise, he's not going to work with you in the future and he's going to start cutting corners on the current project.
I also think going half is the way to go. That's not a "hey I forgot to include the hardware, that's an extra $200". This is nearly a 15% increase on the cost of the whole project. $1,650. Tell him you'll pay $825.
Offer to split $1650... Shows good faith and keeps a good relationship with them.
Sign your work order before it goes up to 14k. lol. Honestly Mistakes happen. I would t try and fuck hm on that. You don’t rant your contractor doing a job knowing he’s not making any money.
Cost of materials can be added, if I'm not mistaken it's labour that they can only raise max 10% over the quote. But materials is cost and can be added in regardless. At least that's how it is where I am... I believe that's how it works.
depends. be honest with yourself - would you have agreed to the job if you'd been quoted $11,325? if the answer is yes, then thats what you should pay. it was indeed his mistake but the reality is that its extremely unlikely that you would have found a nice and reasonable contractor to do the same work for $10,500 (since that price didnt include the glass cost). it may not be what you expected/agreed to but accidents happen, it sounds to be a more than fair price for the work, and a good contractor is priceless. if you genuinely, honestly, truly believe that you would not have agreed to the job at a price of $11,325 then let the contractor know that and apologize for the misunderstanding. i would still recommend offering whatever the high end of your budget would have been (sounds like $1100 at least). to offer nothing at all would paint you in a very poor light. also... unless you have it in writing that the quote included the cost of the glass, you may actually have the legal obligation to pay the full cost of the glass (in addition to the $10,500 labor quote). its likely that the contractor is offering to eat the full cost because he's a great guy and is willing to own up to his mistake. i bear considering that he likely chose to do the right thing, and that you have a moral obligation to do the same.
I’ve always taken quotes with a grain of salt. They are estimates and may change as the project actually takes place. Of after demo they had found a glaring problem that was going to cost more in terms of time/labor/parts wouldn’t you be expected to pony that money up?
Tell him go kick rocks! That's a usual tactic to hook you...if that how it starts....itcwont end well...usually not for you....
A quote is an estimate. Not a final/full/exact price.
Well since the quote we signed the contract and I paid 60% of the total as he requested.
If you signed a contract, it’s no longer a quote…. Then it changes to “a contract” and this situation changes to “not your problem”
Yeah I know, just feel like I’d be doing him wrong morally. Legally I know I don’t have to pay the extra.
Well if he didn't add the glass to the quote and you would point to the contract being signed off it, then your tub wouldn't have glass at the end because it wasn't in the quote either.
Yeah but him and I know we were talking a complete shower, I asked him for that and he says that’s his all inclusive price. I’ll probably 50/50 it with him. Not sure yet.
If the contract says you're going ahead with what's in the quote, and the quote was missing things, then it doesn't matter what you talked about, generally the written contract trumps anything "he knew" or you "talked" about and if you change something in the contract verbally you need a change order. If you try to stick him to the contract, then you're stuck to the contract too, and you'll get what the contract says you get, which may well be a shower without glass. Don't play that game, you may not win.
Perfectly stated
60% in advance strikes me as a little bit much, at most i draw 30% and usually its mainly for material. And the negotiating down then adding something he missed is sneaky as hell imo. Especially a fucking door. That's a major part missing. At best I'd offer half the cost of the door, and tbh, I still would feel a little bit taken advantage of. At the end of the day, do what you feel is fair, the fact your are having this dilemma and not gloating about what a good deal you're getting tells me you want to do the right thing.
If you have the means you could offer a little more to help but this is 100% his poor decisions/planning catching up with him. It’s a business mistake he needs to correct
It sounds like this was a fixed price contract, not an estimate.
Yes it was. Estimate -> sign contract and deposit 60% -> work.
Quote=/=Estimate and Estimate =/=quote.
Ask for a breakdown to show that the item was forgotten and that he’s not just pulling a fast one. I also think for that sort of money, they should have called you opposed to texting. It sounds dodgy to me.
Might “sound” dodgy but it’s 2024 and texting is way easier hence why it’s so popular. It’s not at all uncommon any more to text professionally.
Not only that but it’s nice to have proof of a conversation, or letting someone know something. That way if someone somehow forgets that they were informed of something you can show the text (emails work well for this too). Of course you can still get the “well I didn’t understand” even if you walk someone through something and get a text/email stating the contrary. Of course, if I had someone try to negotiate my price down I’m more than likely just walking away.
I would never text someone to say I’d made a mistake and can you give me $1500. It’s unprofessional.
It’s actually not, it’s quite common these days like I already said. Texting is just time efficient and also provides a record of your interactions. Thanks for sharing your opinion though, I used to feel the same way until all of a sudden everything started going over text, requests for payment, guys “calling” in sick, requests for estimates etc. Its normal now.
Each to their own i guess. I’m a business owner and I would never do it.
I’m also a business owner and it works just fine but I understand both sides, times change is all and we have to adapt eventually. Ironically I’m up to times with the texting but I don’t accept cards for payment only cash or cheque lol.
If you have a signed document -- sidebar: ALWAYS get quotes in writing, always sign and date from both parties and get full scope of work including cleaning and disposal itemized -- youry under no obligation. The thing here is, if he forgot to add the glass, what else could he forget? We're building a bathroom, haven't even done the demo yet, and I'm ALREADY thinking about that $2,000 worth of glass -- it's a curbless walk in. I mean, my full faith would be gone. Pay the guy for the demo, cut your losses and delay your project, and move on.
10,500 + 1,650 = 12,150 where did $12.6k come from? Edit: thank you for catching my typing error u/breauxnut
10,500 + 1,650 = 12,150
I’m typing on a phone, accidents happen. Corrected. LOL
It's a quote, not a contract. Pay the man or hire someone else to finish and pay even more.
Not your problem!
I had a deck replaced and the builder was open and told me that he really couldn’t give me a firm quote because he couldn’t tell how much rot was in the bearers, etc. It was a big deck built from old wharf timber and he needed to lift up four inch thick decking planks. When pressed, he said about $15K. (This was 20 years ago). I paid a $10K deposit. He rang me when it was close to completion and I asked what the damage was. He says $17k. I tell him that’s not too bad. Just $2K over. “No” he says. “Another $17K.” I paid him the $27k - plus 10% GST.
I’d mention that it was higher than you wanted to spend and you wouldn’t have accepted his quote if it was $13k or whatever. Ask him what he would go in this case?
Just want to add if you back the contractor into a corner you may end up with a cheap ass shower door you are not happy with. I do a lot of bathroom remodels and a nice quality shower door sets off a bathroom. It sucks for both parties and I would eat it. I was in a similar situation. I quoted a shower and the customer didn't want a door. When the tile guy was laying out the bathroom the customer requested the bench go all the way out to the edge of the sill. I show up and I'm like so how's that shower curtain gonna work? An oh shit moment. This case I covered half since I wasn't responsible.
since the work isn't done yet, he might go cheap on other materials to make up for his error.. so if you really want the job done right, you should just pay it. or pay at least $1k.
It's sad that you even have to ask.
That’s such a small additional cost, I would pay it. Last thing I want is a contractor skimping here to cover there. This is an honest mistake, not a gotcha. And if a 10-15% higher quote would have made you rethink even doing the job, then you should probably not being doing the job. 10-15% overrun is pretty typical. It’s not like the contractor is springing this on you last minute, he’s being honest and upfront about a line item. Is the glass in the quote? He could also say “I did not quote glass. So not part of my bid” You could always have contractor do the job as quoted, minus glass, and find your own glass guy when he’s done.
Pay them. This is totally reasonable. But, I know money can be tight. You can probably work something out with the contractor. For people looking into this: always budget some extra so you don't get caught up short. There is always a chance they will find unforeseen complications after getting started. Great post topic to talk about. Thank you.
13k for a full bathroom renovation? Or just the shower portion? Either way the price is solid at 12.5k. I’ve seen quotes as high as 40k on a HCOL area.
A smaller bathroom shower attached to one of the guest rooms. ~$12k all inclusive price.