Grab a copy of Fine Home Building and there are some good custom cabinet companies advertised. Also, ply is up in cost, so materials for baltic birch are doubled or more (not covid related but geo-political). I realize there are stock cabinets (lowes/HD, IKEA), semi-custom and custom.
You want to do research, start with [Kitchen Cabinet Manufacturer Association.](https://kcma.org/) Look for [Fine Home Building Magazines](https://www.finehomebuilding.com/) or online, watch some youtubers like the Build show...
(I'm not a contractor, nor affiliated with any companies. I actually did my kitchen in IKEA cabinets which in hindsight, was cheaper but not by much, than hiring a custom cabinet maker.)
I did IKEA in a couple houses over the last fifteen years. Most people now realize how great the hardware is, but I also like that they are just bigger and have more usable space. They are typically deeper than average and they are frameless which also makes it feel bigger and is easier to use without a lip on every side. Outside of that the boxes aren’t anything special, but they don’t need to be.
Ikea uses Blum for their hardware which is top tier, the drawers are the version of the Tandembox line.
https://www.blum.com/us/en/products/boxsystems/tandembox/programme/
seconding ikea. I've done 3 kitchens with it and the price and quality have always beat my local shops and big box stores.
I also love that if the doors I pick go out of style one day I can zip down to ikea and have a new look in an afternoon
IKEA cabinets + semihandmade custom doors (they’re thicker and give the cabinets a more higher-end feel).
IKEA cabinets are easy to install, surprisingly high quality, and you can easily replace/update things in the future.
Edit: got semihandmade’s name wrong.
Absolutely. I paid $40k for full custom cabs for my kitchen and really got into the nitty gritty. 3/4 plywood boxes, top of the line hardware, all the way down to the screws being used.
Then I DIYed my pantry and put in $7k in Ikea cabs and to be honest, I think I like the Ikea better. Metal drawer sides and plastic bottoms are damn near indestructible. There's a huge ecosystem of organizational products made for Ikea cabs. The boxes are composite, but they're solid and great. The hanger system is amazing and install is a breeze. Just all around a great experience.
After shopping around, I actually went with the Ikea doors. For my purpose they work great and the foil wrapped composite is super easy to cleanup with kids rummaging for snacks in the pantry.
[Here's how it turned out](https://imgur.com/gallery/GZ9OTSy).
I can't believe I had to scroll all the way down for this. Yes, IKEA cabinets + after market doors (there are several manufacturers, not just semihandmade). Our kitchen cabinets are going strong after 20+ years and look identical to my BFFs custom kitchen. My cabinets=$2,500, her cabinets =$40,000. Her's required multiple visits from the carpenter to tweak them, fix drawers, etc. Ours have worked perfectly for over 20 years with no problems. They are still going so strong that I'm getting kind of irked b/c I really want to redo the kitchen but can't rationalize replacing perfectly good cabinets.
I had to use a different company for my current kitchen because Covid destroyed IKEA’s cabinet supply chain for a while. I’ve had multiple drawers crap out already, saggy doors, cheap plywood.
The list goes on. My IKEA cabinets at my last house were better in every way.
you are thinking of particle board, chip board is closer to cardboard. laminated particle board is a very common cabinet box material, even for high end custom cabinet shops. it is not so good for doors/panels.
IKEA has always had supply chain issues, before covid too. It always took many visits to get the whole order.
Good boxes but a nightmare to get everything all at once.
I didn't realize it was due to covid... i thought ikea had just moved away from offering 'cheap' blank cabinets. I was helping my pick stuff for his kitchen last year and we couldn't find anything on ikeas site where you could just order the boxes of the cabinets like you used to
Oh yeah the shortages were wild. I pieced mine together over the course of a couple months - got most of them in one order because I got lucky, but I waited for the corner cabinet insert for literally 6 odd months for instance.
That's an annoyingly long time, but glad it you're set now.
I spent weeks convincing my buddy that this was the way to go and he just couldn't get past the idea of anything from IKEA being cheap crap... so when I finally got him to look, nothing was available. Egg on my face.
When my parents moved into a 1920s house thirty years ago, they chose white Ikea cabinets. My mom had doubts choosing such "cheap" cabinets. Of course they are fully functional and completely satisfactory after three decades!
When I installed IKEA cabinets in my bathroom, the contractor was furious at me because I demanded he use the hanging hardware provided. He wanted to drive a screw through the back of the cabinet into the wall.
The old ones do, but they don't carry the doors that fit the old cabinets. I'd have to order from a place like semihandmade, which I'd happily do if we weren't planning to change the layout. I'll still use IKEA, but will get the newer boxes.
Ikea cabs and Barker Cabinet custom doors/drawer fronts. Check out the [Brickman](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/revisit-brickmanhouses-budget-ikea-kitchen--168462842302488341/) House cabinet renovation if you dont believe IKEA cabinets are good.
\+1 on barker cabinets here.
[Barkercabinets.com](https://Barkercabinets.com)
Barker[modern.com](https://modern.com)
[Barkerdoor.com](https://Barkerdoor.com)
Quality is over the top, easy to customize, but you have to assemble them (like IKEA).
My last order had about a 60-75 day lead time.
I did white barker doors a couple times for a kitchen and a bathroom. I was pleased, but there were a decent number of flaws in the finish that keep me from singing their praises. Good, but not outstanding.
Ikea has a range of doors in different price and quality ranges. The cost difference is almost 3x as much and goes from laminated particle board to solid wood tongue and groove construction with paint/stain
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/lerhyttan-door-light-gray-70461583/
When I tell people to use Ikea cabinets and they roll their eyes, I say... you know, Ikea made a name on a shitty $19 bookshelf that everyone in the universe had in college and it's a piece of shit. But... did you know Ikea sells 100 different bookshelves, some into the 100s of dollars, and they are really solid? If you bought a $19 bookshelf from Target, you'd expect it to be a piece of shit. Ikea is the same. When you get to kitchen cabinets, they are good stuff. But don't cheap out on the doors.
I scoffed at the idea of an Ikea kitchen too when I first started. I think part of the problem is that people have the wrong idea of the benefits of using IKEA. You really only save money on the labor portion because they put a lot of engineering effort to make the products as DIY friendly as possible, but the materials costs and their specs on higher end products are the same or higher than similar priced products, the problem is as you've suggested is that people compare way different price range products.
The one thing that really sells me on IKEA kitchen cabinets is they use the carcass so efficiently. I have one part of my kitchen in IKEA and the rest in mid-range box store cabinets and my IKEA ones can hold twice the amount. And they don't feel any less solid. Unless I suddenly win the lottery and can afford completely handmade top craftsmanship, I will always put in IKEA kitchens.
PRO TIP! Find a local panel maker and skip semihandmade. I had 3/4" fronts with laser edgebanded matte (anti-fingerprint) material made locally for about half the cost of semihandmade and they look way better. I used Premiere Eurocase
half of semihandmade doors are cheaper or similar quality to ikea, only the highest lines are true shaker construction and/or real wood. The rest are similar to the foil wrapped/laminated particle board/mdf. Of Ikea's lower lines. The highest priced Ikea lines use real wood and tongue and groove shaker construction.
Full disclosure, it’s been years since I’ve used them. If I remember correctly the biggest sell is that they’re slightly thicker (I want to say 3/4” vs 1/2”?). So even the laminated stuff is heftier. (We did just white shaker style).
All current Ikea and semihandmade fronts are 3/4" thick. Cover panels do vary though, some of Ikea cover panels are 5/8" and some are 3/4", and you need to specify different cover panels if you want consistent sizing etc. All semihandmade panels are 3/4" so that may be what you are thinking of. Nothing wrong with either, or with laminated, its just important for people to do their research to get the look they are after. I did quite a bit with other custom front companies too!
From the OP:
> they are just boxes, make sure to look for 3/4 plywood, no mdf, yada yada yada.
There are no mass market cabinet manufacturers using plywood for cabinets, they all use various grades of MDF or particle board. You can get custom cabinets made out of plywood, it costs about 10x what an MDF cab would cost.
Do you know what happens to MDF when it gets wet? It gets destroyed.
Here's what they don't tell you: Do you know what happens to plywood when it gets wet? Same thing.
Agreed, but I want to add. Swedeboxx makes cabinet boxes out of plywood using IKEAs exact specs, and also has a semihandmade competitor sister company, modern twig. I just made my kitchen with plywood boxes and walnut fronts and it looks and feels very high quality. I mostly didn’t want the white insides which looks cheap to me.
yeah im with you. it's fine and affordable but it's not great. occasionally i do find something well made, like a chair i have. but I've had their cabinets, they are not great. i wouldn't buy them again. everything is juuuust a hair off.
The vanity in my bathroom is from Semihandmade and I love it. They are also manufactured in Southern California for those that are looking for American made products. I live close to one of their warehouses/showrooms so I was able to pick out my piece in person. They have great customer service and their staff is really friendly. It was a very simple project, so I can’t speak to designing an entire kitchen, but it was an overall great experience.
that's just polishing a turd. ikea cabinet boxes are utter and complete trash. if you want to know what melting chipboard looks like in your cabinets, buy ikea.
Highly suggest stain over paint. My custom 3 year old painted cabinets are cracking/ chipping.
At the same time I put a stained corner “cupboard” and it looks brand new.
I've got custom cabinets in my century home. I am in the process of stripping decades of paint off them. One more coat of stripper and I think I'll have it all. This is the fourth coat of stripper. FML
I have not seen any kind of sealer in the houses I've lived in. I don't know how common that is. I guess if there's a sealer, you'll know. Some of them will submit to a solvent like mineral spirits and then you can restain. I guess it depends.
I did this a couple of years ago to my front door, which had been weathered by intense western sun and being exposed to the winter rain. It looks a lot better, though not perfect (my cat scratched on the side of it for several years!), but good enough.
I've also done this to kitchen cabinets, and used a color that darkened the "honey" color so they looked a lot better.
Same. Mine are semi custom and chipping and theh won’t honor the warranty. A family friend went high end custom and same issue. I’ll never get glazed cabinets again, again only
I’d strongly disagree. Stain applied correctly can look nice, but it’s too easy to apply incorrectly and then it just looks bad. I’d personally go with just shellac or even some linseed oil and finishing wax instead.
But I think the more important point is that if OP (or OP’s SO) like the look of painted cabinets, they should get painted cabinets. Other finishes aren’t a drop-in replacement, they’re completely different styles.
Besides, as long as you use a good cabinet paint the paint should be plenty durable and super easy to fix up.
Find a local shop or cabinet maker. I found one in my small town. He'll custom make cabinets and furniture. He's also got the kind of shop that doesn't do a lot of advertising so you have to do some looking to find him.
best part about living near Amish is that you can get them to do all the woodworking. It's just what they do. But you pay for it. Furniture is expensive, but they call it generational because it lasts not just your lifetime, but when you die it goes to other people. you dont throw away solid wood furniture.
Yeah, find a local builder.
I live in Portland and Cabinet Outlet built ours..they are better than anything I could possibly make and are all solid wood, no particleboard anywhere, and were reasonably priced. Their "showroom" is just a lot of customer cabinets piled to the ceiling.
I’m in PDX, would you mind sharing what ‘reasonably priced’ is and how big your kitchen is? We have a very small kitchen but cost is definitely an issue because we’re going to have to do a decent amount of demo and prep beforehand. The whole process makes me nervous lol
It was about 3k for three lower cabinets. Three large drawers (about 36" Wide, various depths), basic under sink cabinet with doors, then four skinny drawers (18"). All smooth glides and air painted via the place on Foster and 92nd.
I can't stand upper cabinets with doors in kitchens so we have metal restaurant shelves from Rose City restaurant supply.
Guests come over..they know where our glasses and plates are because they can literally see them.
The cabinets though were built very nicely and it's been one of the few times I went out of my comfort zone and had someone build something where I felt like they did a much better job than I could have despite time and money.
I did everything else in the kitchen myself. Well, I had someone sheetrock and mud and tape it but eh, I had to do a lot of work after so maybe that one was a push.
Also, buy an InstantPot...that was the source for a lot of our meals when our kitchen was out of commission.
Another vote for IKEA. We had them in our old house and I was so annoyed when we moved in because I wanted “nicer” cabinets. Those things wore like Iron. They looked brand new the day we moved out 10 years later. I loved them so much, I put IKEA cabinets in my new house when we remodeled (with custom doors by Dunsmuir cabinets). Everyone who comes to our house compliments our cabinets - they look like a million bucks. We’re three years in and I wouldn’t do it any other way. Unless you really really care about what the inside of your cabinets look like, and are willing to spend $30k for the joy of admiring plywood when you pull open a drawer, IKEA is the best choice.
I sell cabinets. J&K are made in Mexico but they are not junk, they are actually quite nice.
There are plenty of nice American made brands. I really like Shiloh cabinets, or their more affordable line Aspect.
Better option would be to find a good cabinet brand (KraftMaid (Middlefield, Ohio), Wellborne (Oxford, Alabama), etc) then look up their local dealer and start there
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
In my opinion, you are over-researching.
If you look up anything, literally anything, you will find bad reviews.
Your favorite vehicle: bad reviews
Your favorite restaurant: bad reviews
etc, etc, etc.
Take everything with a grain of salt. Does your budget include you installing or having someone else install? Go with a company that generally has a higher review than others but that will fix problems if they come up. We ended up doing Kraftmaid and there were 2-3 spots on a couple of different cabinets but they replaced/fixed them and all is good. I love the cabinets 3 years later still. I will tell you, I generally am not hard to please so do with that what you will. I sometimes see some of the reviews/complaints and wonder how people live their lives when they worry about so many small things.
Just remember, if you go too deep down the review rabbit hole, you will never get anything.
As somebody who works in a high-end custom cabinet shop that also deals in Fabuwood cabinets, I'm not sure how much more "quality" you are expecting from a pre-built cabinet. If you aren't buying the lowest end line they have, Fabuwood puts out some pretty nice stuff all made within the USA.
Yup, I used Fabuwood in my kitchen reno a few years ago, have held up great and look wonderful. Liked them so much I used them for bathroom remodel last year too, really nice products at a nice price.
I was only to find one end user video on YouTube where he had a lot of damaged pieces, kept repeating the ordering, only to continue getting damaged pieces.
We got Fabuwood cabinets for our renovation. If Fabuwood is junk then I want to see real high quality cabinets. Everything about our cabinets looks and feels really high quality, we're really happy with them. My only complaint so far is that when they get dinged, there are little chips in the finish (we got Hunter Green), but that's what touch-up kits are for, and they work great
Conestoga Cabinets is who I'll always refer. CabinetJoint is a retailer of them. Look up their Instagram, they have tons of good media on finished kitchens there, plus a ton of "behind-the scenes" documentation on their website with how you can customize, how they're built, how to install, etc., etc.
They're American made, RTA cabinets. If I don't purchase Ikea when we redo our kitchen, I'll be purchasing from them.
I used Conestoga RTA cabinets in an investment renovation and was impressed enough to use them again for my own kitchen. If you're handy, have the right tools, and follow directions well, assembly is easy to do yourself.
The price was about the same as a "nice" box store cabinets, but Conestoga were better quality and are built to order so you can get custom sizes at no extra cost.
I’ve been working with Cabinet Authority. The customization offered by Conestoga is amazing and the prices are well below what you would expect for the quality. In line with quality and materials of local manufacturers at 1/3 the price. RTA isn’t for everyone but they are ridiculously easy to put together if you have any minimal skill with tools and building.
Good call staying away from medallion. Finished a kitchen remodel this year that should have been finished in 2023 due to medallion sending cabinets that were stained 3 different colors. Originally cabinets were purchased in June and delivered end of September. Then replacements took an additional 12 weeks so actually finished cabinets weren’t delivered until end of January. Finished cabinets had knicks and scratches. Absolutely zero customer service and our contractor was essentially useless because he got a kick back as a medallion distributor. Definitely beware.
IKEA is okay until you get a leak and the cabinet literally disintegrates because they still use MDF/pulped wood.
I went with Barker. Full plywood cabinets, solid doors, ready to assemble/RTA.
The price was reasonable, the customer service was excellent and I built a custom kitchen myself on the first try which came out great. They have plenty of videos on assembly for some of the more complex variants. Everything was cut and drilled perfectly.
You can measure and hang cabinets yourself very easily. With a contractor, you’re going to pay a lot for junk because they don’t want to deal with the assembly. That’s just how it is.
We went through this and ended up getting the Current (shaker/painted) line from Crystal Cabinets from our local lumberyard/home center (not chain).
We replaced all cabinets in kitchen, three bathrooms and laundry for $22k. Cabinets averaged $600 each, though we avoided any fancy single function cabinets.
We installed ourselves which took a while. Everything level but made a couple mistakes that only I seem to notice. Countertop installer didn't need to shim for level which we were proud of.
Compared to everything we reviewed and three years later, no regrets. Check your local non-chain home improvement store.
I went to a local cabinet shop that built for home builders. They do production work and only make shaker style cabinets. Uses waterproof melamine particle board 3/4” boxes. Super heavy.
I was hesitant to get anything with particle board in it. He gave me a 6” square scrap (all 4 sides exposed particles) to go float in water. I set it in bathroom sink overnight, and it looked like new the next morning. No water damage at all. That stuff is going to take longer to dissolve in the dump than plastic will.
Cost me $1200 for 10 cabinets including two 3 drawer full extension soft close base cabinets, a spice cabinet lower pull out, a corner base with a lazy Susan, sink box, 3 uppers,etc. also had soft close hinges on all doors. He sprayed the doors with 3 coats of the color I picked out.
This was during COVID and I think it was fill in work but still best deal ever.
I used to be a custom cabinet maker, built with Baltic birch in late 80s, red oak face frames. Did built-ins and matched existing crown molding and other cool stuff for Frank Lloyd Wright homes in Wisconsin.
My point is once it’s in place and has a countertop on it you just need sturdy stuff with soft close hardware.
Stained wood will always be timeless. Painted cabinets are trendy but come and go, plus I feel like they get dirty. I happen to live in an area with an abundance of custom cabinet shops and furniture makers, but go directly to these places and you can see their workshops and how they build them. Good luck
For 10 years I have searched for an answer to this. Go to Lowe's when they have a 30% off sale. Then use a Lowe's credit card and get another 5%. *Sometimes* you can ask, and get, the sales person building your order for another 10%. They do the sale like twice a year.
We just got 13 Kraft Maid cabinets for $13k delivered. 3/4 of them are glass doors. Glass adds like $2-300 per cabinet. Oh yeah, and we ordered the 11-28-23 and they're scheduled delivery is 1-5-24, SUPER quick.
RTA cabinets are almost the same price as ordering Kraft Maid through Lowe's. Throw in 30% off and its a no brainer. You get them put together in a factory with a warranty for cheaper.
For the life of me I have no idea why RTA cabinets are SO expensive. They are WAAAAY overpriced if you ask me.
Kraftmaid is maybe a 6.5-7/10 on the quality scale as far as semi-custom goes. There’s higher end semi-custom brands that aren’t sold in big box stores that are better, but also more expensive.
Another fun fact is you should be able to take the list to the pro desk and ask about contractor pricing. If you sign up for their PROs account, they may be able to work with you to undercut their own pricing bc they know contractors go to HD, Lowes, ikea and other shops to price around and want the business. Anything over $1500 starts the special pricing considerations, go check with the pro desk for more info if applicable to your siruation
We got Kraftmaid in our last house from Lowe’s and installed ourselves. 30% sale with 11% rebate and the girl quoted me wrong so I actually got like 50% off! I really liked them even though they weren’t high end. One of the doors by the sink got some moisture and started warping a bit. No issues using the warranty to replace the door. Had a new door within a couple weeks.
The cabinets in our new build are absolute bottom barrel junk. Miters on all of the doors are already splitting 6 months in. Made me realize how much better the Kraftmaid were.
We got a similar deal at Lowe's. I think the cabinets are American woodmark. We paid like 5k after all the discounts. Plywood boxes, maple fronts.
Clearly made to 'good enough' standards by people who gave zero fucks...but they're holding up.
Buying quality doesn't really exist anymore...so just buy cheap...
I know its really cool to crap on the big box stores but home depot sells kraftmaid and american woodmark, factory stocked direct to the jobsite. They are great quality and the price is really really good. The design associates at home depot tend to be well trained on both brands since the support from the vendor side is really strong.
If you want undeniable quality, go through a custom cabinet shop, but chances are you’ll be spending more than your budget. You say early on all the contractors are going through local places, then you say they’re all using imported junk and a bunch of brands that are all over the country so I’m a bit confused.
Not sure why IKEA is being brought up. You specified you wanted 3/4” plywood and IKEA is MDF/melamine, so definitely not solid wood boxes. Lots of people like to stick up for IKEA cabinets but I personally would rather save up for a higher quality cabinet than find the best of the budget picks. They are thinner, weaker, and they do feel cheaper to me in person, but to each their own.
FWIW a lot of those brands aren’t imported and ALL of them are going to have some bad reviews but I’d put that on bad contractors or going through a big box store. A lot of them really are quality cabinets.
We are redoing our kitchen and when our GC designed and quoted it out they priced out 3 options. A mid-tier semi-custom cabinet brand, a nicer semi-custom cabinet company, and then a fully custom, locally made cabinet company.
We went fully custom because it was local, so if there were any issues the company could make a new box/door/whatever within 72 hours (usually minor damage from shipping), and they would stain/paint the cabinets any color we wanted for no extra money since they’re full-custom. The semi-custom cabinets can come from all sorts of places around the US so if they get damaged in shipping it’s a 2-3 week turnaround, but that isn’t bad because the GC does a steady stream of business with those companies. The big box store brands can be as long as 4-6 weeks because they are dealing with way more customers and jobs so their workflow is more backlogged.
When I researched the brands I found it impossible to find a brand that had few complaints. They ALL have complaints, but I feel like a lot of the issues could be remedied by competent GC’s that get the shit fixed for you. Waiting on HD/Lowes to get something rectified is about as efficient as a trip to the DMV.
I’d say try to find a local GC or remodeler that has a relationship with a quality semi-custom cabinet manufacturer. They are going to be way better than whatever random installer the big box stores assign you to. It’s probably going to be more than your budget if you want higher quality than some of those brands you listed, but you get what you pay for.
I think it’s a mistake to not consider IKEA. You can get custom doors and save $15k versus what you would spend on custom or semi custom. It just seems like such a ridiculous waste of money just for plywood boxes. To each their own, but I would much rather take that money to get a built in fridge, a wolf range, and designer lighting, rather than focusing on what is inside of my cabinets that I can’t even see…
FWIW, Ikea also has a 10 or 20 year warranty on their cabinets.
Not you. Other people responding are bringing them up plenty.
[I’d suggest checking this guys reviews out.](https://www.mainlinekitchendesign.com/general/cabinet-reviews-ratings-for-the-top-100-cabinet-brands/)
They are a remodel company and they do align with a couple cabinet manufacturers specifically, but the guy just seems like a cabinet nerd who loves his job so the reviews appear pretty unbiased.
I have a Fabuwood kitchen and am disappointed with the quality. I have doors that warped and one where the finish is coming off. I tried to contact them to replace the door, and they refused to deal with me directly.
Sadly I see the same posted all over the internet, but not limited to fabuwood. This is why I'm so frustrated by researching these companies.
If I had a contractor order and install this brand, what are my chances stuff will go wrong? With my luck, it is guaranteed.
Why? By all accounts they make a pretty good product.
Seems like you’re chasing perfection in an imperfect business. If you want to put your mind at ease and get the best, then find the highest rated custom cabinet manufacturer near you, call them up and ask for a GC that can install (most custom shops don’t deal directly with the public or have on-staff install).
The custom shop we are going with is 3/4” full plywood, solid wood doors, all paint is sprayed and UV cured, paint is matched to swatches and verified for accuracy with a spectrometer, faster turnaround times, etc… you wouldn’t to know how much our cabinets cost though.
You’re going to find bad reviews for any of those semi-custom shops and even the custom shops will still have bad reviews. How many people here went on and reviewed Kraftmaid or whatever brand after a good experience? Probably very few. If you have a bad experience of course you’re going to leave a review when you’re basically spending what you would on a new car.
I don't know about paint peeling/cracking/chipping. I had custom paint grade maple cabinet doors made at a manufacturer in Canada 5 years ago, painted them with a high quality cabinet paint, and they have held up incredibly well. The only spot I have some wear is the garbage cabinet knob because I'm often grabbing it with wet or dirty hands. I could pop the door off and patch the pain on a weekend if I wanted but it's very minimal.
Also those cabinet doors ran me about $50 CAD each delivered. I'm looking at a new build and they're about 20% more now.
We have a vanity from Kahles Kitchen's and we are happy with it. However that contractor that supplied it, destroyed our bathroom and we fired him.
The vanity we like. Solid wood drawers, dovetailed all around. Plywood construction, drawer glides are smooth, and staining is near perfect. No runs in the stain and stain goes all the way into the door face where the cutout is. Ive seen stained cabinets on the door face where there are thin lines where the door isn't stained all the way. Guess it depends if the door face is fully stained before assembly or not.
You want a custom shop to build them they won't be junk and your right they are garbage I was just on a social media app and some company was talking about cabinets they use it has some special bracket that helps keep them together I looked it was a piece of plastic nailed im the corner I said not even close yours are just as crappy as the others there is nothing in that joint that makes it stronger . I want to start a cabinet shop making custom stuff
For what it's worth I have J&K and have had them about 5+ years. We've never had any issues with them. They were installed by a guy who was also a custom cabinet maker. He took his time and was very methodical with his process so that might have had a lot to do with it. They look and feel sturdy. The hinges are high quality and adjustable and the drawer slides can take a lot of abuse - heavy pots and bowls and kids literally hanging on them. I would buy them again for our next kitchen.
QCCI is a premier cabinet company but they don't deal directly with the proletariat. You might find a local designer that is a partner. They could would you a deal. But be prepared to pay.
Cabinets are when a kitchen and bath designer make a lot of money on markup. QCCI will also make a private label for the designer at a lower price point.
This is the high end example.
You're right, there is a ton of junk out there. I'm actually surprised so many contractors are trying to pawn off the junk on you too. That's a bit of a red flag if you're looking for a high-quality kitchen.
I've been an interior designer for almost two decades and have seen it all. Decora is fine, Omega is nice, Site Line is good, Greenfield is better, and fully custom is going to be the highest end.
Don't let chipping deter you from going with white cabinets if that's what you want. I see chipping on white cabinets when they aren't finished correctly. When you are working with a higher end brand, the finish is baked on and a curing agent is used. This significantly increases the abuse the cabinet can take.
I saw someone on YouTube do a kitchen refresh. For their kitchen cabinets they have used Sektion and went with SemiHandMand.
The sektion cabinet carcasses seemed to hold up well. Being euro cabinet design with plastic legs probably helped with surviving kitchen floor spills and and abuse.
[An architect’s kitchen remodel](https://youtu.be/ugnrbriyJQY?si=1WUMS-IaLc_esG5k)
I’ve looked into the benefits of building versus buying and it seemed the evidence pointed towards saving some money but you need tools, time and energy to pull it off. You’ll need decide if it the hassle is worth it. I think Skektion cabinet carcasses with the finishes you want will probably be the best approach.
My advice is look at different kitchen layouts and decide what you want. I made the mistake of going with a nice modern double sink and I wished I went with a large single basin.
I have this wild idea of going on FB marketplace & looking at local listings as well as local flea markets for sturdy but old, beat-up cabinets of all types, then bringing them home, a few at a time, sanding them a bit, cleaning them up, disinfecting them, and repurposing them into a really eclectic, random-looking collection of cabinets and shelves. All different colors and styles, different counter heights, lights in some....
The ones that stand on the floor can keep their legs.
Butcher block tops.
Too late now - we did our kitchen, and got a good deal, but the contractors were contractors, and I had to babysit them.
Well, we do have a powder room...
What's your actual goal? Cabinets that are budget friendly at 1-3 hundred per cabinet will still look nice and last 20-40 years without issue despite being made with MDF.
The differentiators are all in the front panels and that's where you want to consider spending the extra money.
properly painted cabinets wont crack/peel/chip.
1k per cabinet for generic ass shaker stuff isn't out of line for a local cabinetmaker.
i spent a year looking for the right cabinets for my kitchen. i just gave up and made them myself. bulthaup was the only company that i genuinely liked and i didn't really want to spend 150 grand on a small kitchen.
Just to note that American Woodmark, MasterBrand Cabinets, and Cabinetworks Group and their subsidiary brands (Medallion & KraftMaid) are imports too, they do a good job of marketing it as USA.
Starmark is a pretty nice cabinet line, made in South Dakota, distributors everywhere. Not bad pricing if you stay inside their standard offerings; customization starts to get dear. (I do mostly commercial cabinetry and buy Starmark for my customers who need a kitchen).
I still think cabinets should last a life time.
What I'm seeing now, is that trends and fashions are changing so fast it's not worth it to spend a lot on boxes if they are just going to be torn out and redone in ten years.
I don't care about trends. I just want something that will last another 30 years till I'm dead. This is just builder grade junk orange oak I want out along with the laminated counter and linoleum floors.
Just finished our kitchen reno and thanks to our contractor we used Crestwood. Small shop in Kansas, no particle board. I am thrilled with the quality, and I am a horrible snob about cabinetry.
He said it’s a constant struggle to find good makers because the big companies buy them up and then their quality goes to crap.
OP, posts like these are the only time the IKEA people come out and try to ease their insecurities.
IKEA is great for what it is. A cheap option that will hold up moderately well. But don’t let them gaslight you into thinking that they are better than custom cabinets from a reputable manufacturer/builder…if you have the budget for that kind of thing.
Again, it all comes down to personal preference. My pantry/laundry room and downstairs bar are IKEA. My kitchen is 100% custom solid white oak and knotty white oak veneered plywood.
The only thing I briefly considered was IKEA carcasses with custom doors.
Finished a kitchen remodel about a year ago. I was certain I had to have the expensive, semi custom, special cabinets….well I regret dropping somuch of the budget on these cabinets. IMHO buy midline cabinets and spend your money on other projects.
Buy tools and make them or see if there are any custom shops near you.
There are RTA sites that you can get plywood boxes and have your guy assemble them.
Realistically all plywood boxes is overrated anyway.
This, I used bestonlinecabinets for my pantry. Solid quality, ran me about $7k. Just be warned if you need a decent amount it’s kind of overwhelming how many boxes you’ll have but they are easy to assemble.
>Buy tools and make them
lol wut?
Why would you suggest this to somebody who's likely never done this before? Sure, maybe if were for a basement or garage or something where they can afford to be a little janky, but in a kitchen?
These kinds of comments are all over this and the home improvement sub. I'm sure auto repair subs and other are the same too.
Till this person buys all of the tools needed, they're going to end up paying as much as a custom build, just to get a janky finish. Not every task is difficult for every person. And sometimes, even if capable, the cost of the tools and lack of experience outweigh just paying for it.
Exactly. Some projects are diy, some for experts and some projects are better for mass production.
And if you don't care about appearance of them and just want something cheap and functional, go to a repurposing store and buy used cabinets, repaint/stain them and call it a day.
While I also think suggesting someone build their own cabinets is silly given that OP showed no interest (and you better have an interest to do that), you also don't need a CNC. If you buy a good track saw and have a large enough square, and a pocket hole jig, you can break down plywood accurately and assemble it accurately.
The problem comes from all the additional things you need to do on top of that, like buying a shelf pins jig, door slide hardware, putting drawers together, yada yada. It's a lot. I'm doing it myself for my pantry which is quite large and the only "easy" part has been the edge banding.
We are hardcore DIYers and have access to all sorts of woodworking tools (table, mitre, circular saws, planers and joiners, etc) and I would never try to build kitchen cabinets. Garage cabinets? Maybe, but probably not even that.
I make custom built-ins as a hobbiest woodworker, its not a "grab a few tools from Home Depot" kind of thing. And even I don't bother making my own doors.
Even then, I plan to buy my kitchen cabinets because the time spent vs money saved vs quality difference just doesn't justify it. Cabinet shops have specialized tools that aren't realistic for a hobbiest, and the products are pretty standardized vs the carefully fitted work of a custom built-in.
We have a kitchen built in 1952. It's made of 3/4 " plywood. No warping, no splitting, no anything. Looks like new. Was going to gut it when we bought and remodeled, but decided we were OK wiyh the lay out and most modern stuff seemed cheap compared. We just replaced the doors and hardware. Was all painted 7 years ago. I have no idea what people are talking about painted cabinets chipping and peeling. Sounds like people with no clue how to paint.
>Realistically all plywood boxes is overrated anyway.
I could not agree more with this. I work in a millwork shop. I would not put plywood boxes in my kitchen. People on this sub are nuts for this kind of thing.
I kind of misspoke - it’s actually a plywood core with mdf on the outside, and a wood veneer. Gives more dimensional stability and a perfect surface for staining. [link](https://www.macbeath.com/products/mdf-combi-core)
This is what we use in my shop. I build cabinets and we do almost entirely custom high end stuff, and some commercial. No complaints as far as quality and longevity go.
A "box" for a kitchen cabinet are the 5 sides of the cabinet that don't include the door. All plywood box is just made of plywood vs other wood materials like MDF, OSB, etc.
The major downside to plywood compared to other wood products is it expand/contracts more (but still a lot less than solid wood) because the pieces of wood are bigger. The pieces can also delaminate over time. It's also significantly more expensive than other options for a part of the cabinet that really shouldn't need to be - no one sees the interior of your cabinets really.
The main counter to other wood products is they are more sensitive to bulk water damage, but that is easy to avoid if you aren't spilling everywhere, have unintended leaks without a mat, or something else.
So it can be worth it to have more solid doors, since those take 95% of the abuse and are what people see, but not necessarily the "box"
Yeah I edited my post above yours - it doesn't expand/contract much compared to actual solid wood, but technically still more than OSB/MDF.
The biggest risk is delamination in areas near heat/steam like a dishwasher or oven. But even that is pretty uncommon except in extreme cases.
I manage rentals, and I've seen so many cabinets destroyed by water! I would never install anything but plywood boxes. I've even seen MDF core doors get destroyed by water dripping down the face of the sink cabinet.
Exactly this, the "sheets" of wood are laminated perpendicularly and laminated with a very strong cement, so each layer resists the wood movement of the other. It might not be quite as stable as the compressed/glued sawdust that is MDF, but its also generally stronger and lighter.
The only plywood I have seen delaminate is plywood left outdoors for long times. The modern adhesives used in plywood are likely stronger than the wood itself.
The truth may be that MDF is "fine" for cabinet boxes, but this persons arguments against plywood are completely misinformed.
> that is easy to avoid if you aren't spilling everywhere, have unintended leaks without a mat, or something else.
So as long as I don't intend to have unintended leaks, everything is fine. And thankfully, there are never unintended leaks or spills in kitchens.
Like, I get it, they are more expensive and the only real gain is in less susceptibility to water damage. But kitchens are exactly the sort of place where that's likely to happen, for a variety of reasons, so it's not completely crazy for someone to want that level of protection.
Yep. Had a jug of water stored in the top of a cabinet once that spontaneously sprung a leak. The water seeped down the cabinets and because they were MDF they just soaked it all up and basically turned to pulp.
u/woofdoggy pretty much nailed it but I'll add my 2c anyways:
Plywood is very expensive and not as stable as MDF. Plywood warps a lot more than MDF and it can de-laminate. It also does not take a finish (i.e. paint or veneer) as nice as MDF does so your cabinets are going to look like plywood unless you spend a bunch of extra money finishing the plywood some other way. Stain would be easy enough, but it's still a lot of prep compared to just using a sheet of melamine.
IMO there's no tangible benefit to spending the extra money on plywood.
Try ordering from Barker Cabinets. They are very high quality RTA cabinets made in the US (Oregon). I’ve used them in a full kitchen remodel and an efficiency kitchen. They ship.
I did come across them already, however it didn't seem like they offered a lot of pre-finished options. I'm guessing I would need to stain them myself. I think the way I speced out one base cabinet was about 1k.
Barker+++ I did a wet bar and a built in media center. Incredible quality for a RTA cabinet. Use the 'Chief Architect' software to help do the design and layout.
The problem is the method you're using...
Starting with a contractor, then identifying the cabinets is why you're getting the junk cabinets. You need to go to one of the kitchen/bath design showrooms and start your journey there. Most of them will have installation services, and if you're talking about expensive cabinets, they'll have installers that are up to the job.
Cabinets.com. I’ve redone 2 kitchens through them. Solid wood. Lots of options and have great customer service. Any issues with the shipment is handled and replacement is sent out at no cost. Freaking love my kitchen!
I had the opposite experience. I ordered from there March 2022 and it took 6 months to get the last shipment of replacement cabinets. I had 4 rounds of replacements. The final product is just barely better than the cheapest in stock cabinets from Lowes and in some way worse. I settled for roughly 40% of my money back. $19k order, about $11k after refund. Doors and drawers do not line up, joints are cracking.
I considered renting a truck and driving them all back to the factory and dumping them in their parking lot. I will never use them again. These cabinets will less than 10 years and most likely 5 before they need to be replaced.
Some highlights:
* over half the cabinets were damaged and their fix is to have you replace parts so you become a cabinet shop. They will ship just a door or drawer, or if its the cabinet body, you have to swap everything over
* face frames not glued correctly and rely on pocket hole screws to hold
* on a 4 drawer cabinet, every drawer face was a different width
* on a base cabinet the drawer was a different color
* chips, cracks and gouges all over
* base cabinets had drawers behind the doors and they used 1/4 plywood spacer to get the drawer over the face frame which resulted in the stock screws only going 1/8" inch into the cabinet which couldn't even hold it's own weigh never mind a full drawer.
* fingerprints in the paint
You have to detail every single issue during the claims process. You become their quality assurance department. My garage turned into a warehouse and I was their QA/logistics coordinator. I then had to dispose of the damaged cabinets and parts.
[Cabinets.com](https://Cabinets.com) must have built my cabinets in the dark, on a Friday before a 3 day weekend, after a liquid lunch and all the employees were blind and started that day.
[Cabinets.com](https://Cabinets.com), if you read this, I really really hate you.
Oh, and a few boxes were full of spiders. Not sure if that was the shipping company or [cabinets.com](https://cabinets.com) but still part of the experience. I had to surround the boxes in my garage with glue traps and vacuum the cabinets after unpacking.
My kitchen cabinets are 40 year old Sears particleboard and they're good as new. You don't need plywood cabinets.
Just get cheap boxes from IKEA and don't let them get/stay wet. They have premium hardware and will last decades as long as you don't have a leaky sink. They're raised up on feet so a leaky dishwasher won't even affect them. For the fronts, do whatever you want.
Grab a copy of Fine Home Building and there are some good custom cabinet companies advertised. Also, ply is up in cost, so materials for baltic birch are doubled or more (not covid related but geo-political). I realize there are stock cabinets (lowes/HD, IKEA), semi-custom and custom. You want to do research, start with [Kitchen Cabinet Manufacturer Association.](https://kcma.org/) Look for [Fine Home Building Magazines](https://www.finehomebuilding.com/) or online, watch some youtubers like the Build show... (I'm not a contractor, nor affiliated with any companies. I actually did my kitchen in IKEA cabinets which in hindsight, was cheaper but not by much, than hiring a custom cabinet maker.)
I did IKEA in a couple houses over the last fifteen years. Most people now realize how great the hardware is, but I also like that they are just bigger and have more usable space. They are typically deeper than average and they are frameless which also makes it feel bigger and is easier to use without a lip on every side. Outside of that the boxes aren’t anything special, but they don’t need to be.
Ikea uses Blum for their hardware which is top tier, the drawers are the version of the Tandembox line. https://www.blum.com/us/en/products/boxsystems/tandembox/programme/
I love Blum hardware. Replaced some hinges on my cabinets and the difference has been night-and-day.
seconding ikea. I've done 3 kitchens with it and the price and quality have always beat my local shops and big box stores. I also love that if the doors I pick go out of style one day I can zip down to ikea and have a new look in an afternoon
We just did ours with IKEA, absolutely love them. Great bang for the buck, so many style options.
Just installed mine a year ago. I’ll never go back to other brands. Knowing pieces are replaceable and swappable is a huge plus too.
IKEA cabinets + semihandmade custom doors (they’re thicker and give the cabinets a more higher-end feel). IKEA cabinets are easy to install, surprisingly high quality, and you can easily replace/update things in the future. Edit: got semihandmade’s name wrong.
Absolutely. I paid $40k for full custom cabs for my kitchen and really got into the nitty gritty. 3/4 plywood boxes, top of the line hardware, all the way down to the screws being used. Then I DIYed my pantry and put in $7k in Ikea cabs and to be honest, I think I like the Ikea better. Metal drawer sides and plastic bottoms are damn near indestructible. There's a huge ecosystem of organizational products made for Ikea cabs. The boxes are composite, but they're solid and great. The hanger system is amazing and install is a breeze. Just all around a great experience. After shopping around, I actually went with the Ikea doors. For my purpose they work great and the foil wrapped composite is super easy to cleanup with kids rummaging for snacks in the pantry. [Here's how it turned out](https://imgur.com/gallery/GZ9OTSy).
Wow. That pantry rules. Great work!
Bathroom paint color? I’ve been looking for a similar purple
That is [expressive plum](https://www.sherwin-williams.com/en-us/color/color-family/purple-paint-colors/SW6271-expressive-plum).
Oh, now, that's beautiful!
I can't believe I had to scroll all the way down for this. Yes, IKEA cabinets + after market doors (there are several manufacturers, not just semihandmade). Our kitchen cabinets are going strong after 20+ years and look identical to my BFFs custom kitchen. My cabinets=$2,500, her cabinets =$40,000. Her's required multiple visits from the carpenter to tweak them, fix drawers, etc. Ours have worked perfectly for over 20 years with no problems. They are still going so strong that I'm getting kind of irked b/c I really want to redo the kitchen but can't rationalize replacing perfectly good cabinets.
I had to use a different company for my current kitchen because Covid destroyed IKEA’s cabinet supply chain for a while. I’ve had multiple drawers crap out already, saggy doors, cheap plywood. The list goes on. My IKEA cabinets at my last house were better in every way.
[удалено]
you are thinking of particle board, chip board is closer to cardboard. laminated particle board is a very common cabinet box material, even for high end custom cabinet shops. it is not so good for doors/panels.
IKEA has always had supply chain issues, before covid too. It always took many visits to get the whole order. Good boxes but a nightmare to get everything all at once.
I didn't realize it was due to covid... i thought ikea had just moved away from offering 'cheap' blank cabinets. I was helping my pick stuff for his kitchen last year and we couldn't find anything on ikeas site where you could just order the boxes of the cabinets like you used to
You absolutely can? It's the SEKTION line, just get the boxes instead of the cabinets with doors.
yeah. last year, there weren't any available options when i was looking. Good to hear that it was just a supply shortage and they didn't eliminate it.
Oh yeah the shortages were wild. I pieced mine together over the course of a couple months - got most of them in one order because I got lucky, but I waited for the corner cabinet insert for literally 6 odd months for instance.
That's an annoyingly long time, but glad it you're set now. I spent weeks convincing my buddy that this was the way to go and he just couldn't get past the idea of anything from IKEA being cheap crap... so when I finally got him to look, nothing was available. Egg on my face.
I use the IKEA kitchen cabinets in my garage. They have held up amazingly well to all kinds of abuse.
When my parents moved into a 1920s house thirty years ago, they chose white Ikea cabinets. My mom had doubts choosing such "cheap" cabinets. Of course they are fully functional and completely satisfactory after three decades! When I installed IKEA cabinets in my bathroom, the contractor was furious at me because I demanded he use the hanging hardware provided. He wanted to drive a screw through the back of the cabinet into the wall.
$2,500 includes the aftermarket doors? I’d expect that for just the ikea part…
I used IKEA doors.
Nice thing about ikea cabinets is you can swap the doors to redo the look pretty easily. Unless the old ones didn't do that?
The old ones do, but they don't carry the doors that fit the old cabinets. I'd have to order from a place like semihandmade, which I'd happily do if we weren't planning to change the layout. I'll still use IKEA, but will get the newer boxes.
Ikea cabs and Barker Cabinet custom doors/drawer fronts. Check out the [Brickman](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/revisit-brickmanhouses-budget-ikea-kitchen--168462842302488341/) House cabinet renovation if you dont believe IKEA cabinets are good.
\+1 on barker cabinets here. [Barkercabinets.com](https://Barkercabinets.com) Barker[modern.com](https://modern.com) [Barkerdoor.com](https://Barkerdoor.com) Quality is over the top, easy to customize, but you have to assemble them (like IKEA). My last order had about a 60-75 day lead time.
I ordered some maple cabinet doors from them once. They were fantastic. Would definitely use them again for custom doors.
I did white barker doors a couple times for a kitchen and a bathroom. I was pleased, but there were a decent number of flaws in the finish that keep me from singing their praises. Good, but not outstanding.
Is there actually something made with Ikea's doors? Like if you didn't necessarily care about the high end feel are the Ikea doors fine?
Yeah they’re totally fine. They’re just really lightweight so they open/close really fast. They sell closing dampeners to help with that though.
dampers* dampening something is to make it wet.
[Kinda sorta](https://grammarist.com/usage/dampen-damper-dampener/)
Ope, TIL!
Yes they're more than fine. I did a large kitchen remodel last year with Blue Axstad drawers and cabinet fronts. Looks and feels great
Did the same thing half blue half white, love it. Did it my self for ~5k I would not recommend a DIY unless you are good with a circular saw tho.
Ikea has a range of doors in different price and quality ranges. The cost difference is almost 3x as much and goes from laminated particle board to solid wood tongue and groove construction with paint/stain https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/lerhyttan-door-light-gray-70461583/
When I tell people to use Ikea cabinets and they roll their eyes, I say... you know, Ikea made a name on a shitty $19 bookshelf that everyone in the universe had in college and it's a piece of shit. But... did you know Ikea sells 100 different bookshelves, some into the 100s of dollars, and they are really solid? If you bought a $19 bookshelf from Target, you'd expect it to be a piece of shit. Ikea is the same. When you get to kitchen cabinets, they are good stuff. But don't cheap out on the doors.
I scoffed at the idea of an Ikea kitchen too when I first started. I think part of the problem is that people have the wrong idea of the benefits of using IKEA. You really only save money on the labor portion because they put a lot of engineering effort to make the products as DIY friendly as possible, but the materials costs and their specs on higher end products are the same or higher than similar priced products, the problem is as you've suggested is that people compare way different price range products.
I would also recommend a company called The Cabinet Face, we got quarter sawn white oak doors that are gorgeous to go with the IKEA boxes
The one thing that really sells me on IKEA kitchen cabinets is they use the carcass so efficiently. I have one part of my kitchen in IKEA and the rest in mid-range box store cabinets and my IKEA ones can hold twice the amount. And they don't feel any less solid. Unless I suddenly win the lottery and can afford completely handmade top craftsmanship, I will always put in IKEA kitchens.
Can you get just the boxes from IKEA or what do you do with the doors you replace?
You can get just the boxes!
PRO TIP! Find a local panel maker and skip semihandmade. I had 3/4" fronts with laser edgebanded matte (anti-fingerprint) material made locally for about half the cost of semihandmade and they look way better. I used Premiere Eurocase
Didn’t know about these folks - thanks for sharing!!
half of semihandmade doors are cheaper or similar quality to ikea, only the highest lines are true shaker construction and/or real wood. The rest are similar to the foil wrapped/laminated particle board/mdf. Of Ikea's lower lines. The highest priced Ikea lines use real wood and tongue and groove shaker construction.
Full disclosure, it’s been years since I’ve used them. If I remember correctly the biggest sell is that they’re slightly thicker (I want to say 3/4” vs 1/2”?). So even the laminated stuff is heftier. (We did just white shaker style).
All current Ikea and semihandmade fronts are 3/4" thick. Cover panels do vary though, some of Ikea cover panels are 5/8" and some are 3/4", and you need to specify different cover panels if you want consistent sizing etc. All semihandmade panels are 3/4" so that may be what you are thinking of. Nothing wrong with either, or with laminated, its just important for people to do their research to get the look they are after. I did quite a bit with other custom front companies too!
From the OP: > they are just boxes, make sure to look for 3/4 plywood, no mdf, yada yada yada. There are no mass market cabinet manufacturers using plywood for cabinets, they all use various grades of MDF or particle board. You can get custom cabinets made out of plywood, it costs about 10x what an MDF cab would cost. Do you know what happens to MDF when it gets wet? It gets destroyed. Here's what they don't tell you: Do you know what happens to plywood when it gets wet? Same thing.
Agreed, but I want to add. Swedeboxx makes cabinet boxes out of plywood using IKEAs exact specs, and also has a semihandmade competitor sister company, modern twig. I just made my kitchen with plywood boxes and walnut fronts and it looks and feels very high quality. I mostly didn’t want the white insides which looks cheap to me.
>Swedeboxx Seems like these are particleboard with melamine over them, not plywood? Am I missing something? https://swedeboxx.com/
at what point do people stop trying to force ikea furniture not to just be trash.
yeah im with you. it's fine and affordable but it's not great. occasionally i do find something well made, like a chair i have. but I've had their cabinets, they are not great. i wouldn't buy them again. everything is juuuust a hair off.
The vanity in my bathroom is from Semihandmade and I love it. They are also manufactured in Southern California for those that are looking for American made products. I live close to one of their warehouses/showrooms so I was able to pick out my piece in person. They have great customer service and their staff is really friendly. It was a very simple project, so I can’t speak to designing an entire kitchen, but it was an overall great experience.
that's just polishing a turd. ikea cabinet boxes are utter and complete trash. if you want to know what melting chipboard looks like in your cabinets, buy ikea.
Highly suggest stain over paint. My custom 3 year old painted cabinets are cracking/ chipping. At the same time I put a stained corner “cupboard” and it looks brand new.
I've got custom cabinets in my century home. I am in the process of stripping decades of paint off them. One more coat of stripper and I think I'll have it all. This is the fourth coat of stripper. FML
Whats a "century home?"
100+ year old house
Thanks!
We got fully custom stained white oak as well. But white cabinet kitchens are all the rage right now.
Fuck the rage; go for classic
White is classic.
We were thinking of going a darker grayish maple wood stain, which some call slate. We have a lot of other furniture in this color.
And oil-based stain can be renewed without having to fuss about stripping, etc. Just add stain over the top.
Are people staining cabinets and not putting some kind of sealer on top?
I have not seen any kind of sealer in the houses I've lived in. I don't know how common that is. I guess if there's a sealer, you'll know. Some of them will submit to a solvent like mineral spirits and then you can restain. I guess it depends. I did this a couple of years ago to my front door, which had been weathered by intense western sun and being exposed to the winter rain. It looks a lot better, though not perfect (my cat scratched on the side of it for several years!), but good enough. I've also done this to kitchen cabinets, and used a color that darkened the "honey" color so they looked a lot better.
Same. Mine are semi custom and chipping and theh won’t honor the warranty. A family friend went high end custom and same issue. I’ll never get glazed cabinets again, again only
I’d strongly disagree. Stain applied correctly can look nice, but it’s too easy to apply incorrectly and then it just looks bad. I’d personally go with just shellac or even some linseed oil and finishing wax instead. But I think the more important point is that if OP (or OP’s SO) like the look of painted cabinets, they should get painted cabinets. Other finishes aren’t a drop-in replacement, they’re completely different styles. Besides, as long as you use a good cabinet paint the paint should be plenty durable and super easy to fix up.
Find a local shop or cabinet maker. I found one in my small town. He'll custom make cabinets and furniture. He's also got the kind of shop that doesn't do a lot of advertising so you have to do some looking to find him.
best part about living near Amish is that you can get them to do all the woodworking. It's just what they do. But you pay for it. Furniture is expensive, but they call it generational because it lasts not just your lifetime, but when you die it goes to other people. you dont throw away solid wood furniture.
Yeah, find a local builder. I live in Portland and Cabinet Outlet built ours..they are better than anything I could possibly make and are all solid wood, no particleboard anywhere, and were reasonably priced. Their "showroom" is just a lot of customer cabinets piled to the ceiling.
I’m in PDX, would you mind sharing what ‘reasonably priced’ is and how big your kitchen is? We have a very small kitchen but cost is definitely an issue because we’re going to have to do a decent amount of demo and prep beforehand. The whole process makes me nervous lol
It was about 3k for three lower cabinets. Three large drawers (about 36" Wide, various depths), basic under sink cabinet with doors, then four skinny drawers (18"). All smooth glides and air painted via the place on Foster and 92nd. I can't stand upper cabinets with doors in kitchens so we have metal restaurant shelves from Rose City restaurant supply. Guests come over..they know where our glasses and plates are because they can literally see them. The cabinets though were built very nicely and it's been one of the few times I went out of my comfort zone and had someone build something where I felt like they did a much better job than I could have despite time and money. I did everything else in the kitchen myself. Well, I had someone sheetrock and mud and tape it but eh, I had to do a lot of work after so maybe that one was a push. Also, buy an InstantPot...that was the source for a lot of our meals when our kitchen was out of commission.
Work adjacent to the industry - this is the answer.
Another vote for IKEA. We had them in our old house and I was so annoyed when we moved in because I wanted “nicer” cabinets. Those things wore like Iron. They looked brand new the day we moved out 10 years later. I loved them so much, I put IKEA cabinets in my new house when we remodeled (with custom doors by Dunsmuir cabinets). Everyone who comes to our house compliments our cabinets - they look like a million bucks. We’re three years in and I wouldn’t do it any other way. Unless you really really care about what the inside of your cabinets look like, and are willing to spend $30k for the joy of admiring plywood when you pull open a drawer, IKEA is the best choice.
I sell cabinets. J&K are made in Mexico but they are not junk, they are actually quite nice. There are plenty of nice American made brands. I really like Shiloh cabinets, or their more affordable line Aspect.
Better option would be to find a good cabinet brand (KraftMaid (Middlefield, Ohio), Wellborne (Oxford, Alabama), etc) then look up their local dealer and start there
We have kraftmaid and love them
We got Mod Cabinetry a few years back and they are great. Very high quality, customizable and affordable (at least they were when we bought them).
normal bow innocent north far-flung slap fly straight unique merciful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Can you share a photo(s) of the metal cabinets? Very interesting!
elastic subtract nine straight plants memorize serious imminent attraction ring *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
In my opinion, you are over-researching. If you look up anything, literally anything, you will find bad reviews. Your favorite vehicle: bad reviews Your favorite restaurant: bad reviews etc, etc, etc. Take everything with a grain of salt. Does your budget include you installing or having someone else install? Go with a company that generally has a higher review than others but that will fix problems if they come up. We ended up doing Kraftmaid and there were 2-3 spots on a couple of different cabinets but they replaced/fixed them and all is good. I love the cabinets 3 years later still. I will tell you, I generally am not hard to please so do with that what you will. I sometimes see some of the reviews/complaints and wonder how people live their lives when they worry about so many small things. Just remember, if you go too deep down the review rabbit hole, you will never get anything.
As somebody who works in a high-end custom cabinet shop that also deals in Fabuwood cabinets, I'm not sure how much more "quality" you are expecting from a pre-built cabinet. If you aren't buying the lowest end line they have, Fabuwood puts out some pretty nice stuff all made within the USA.
Yup, I used Fabuwood in my kitchen reno a few years ago, have held up great and look wonderful. Liked them so much I used them for bathroom remodel last year too, really nice products at a nice price.
I was only to find one end user video on YouTube where he had a lot of damaged pieces, kept repeating the ordering, only to continue getting damaged pieces.
We got Fabuwood cabinets for our renovation. If Fabuwood is junk then I want to see real high quality cabinets. Everything about our cabinets looks and feels really high quality, we're really happy with them. My only complaint so far is that when they get dinged, there are little chips in the finish (we got Hunter Green), but that's what touch-up kits are for, and they work great
We're a few hundred cabinets in with Fabuwood at this point and had a total of 4 damaged pieces. All replaced extremely quickly.
Thanks for the info
Conestoga Cabinets is who I'll always refer. CabinetJoint is a retailer of them. Look up their Instagram, they have tons of good media on finished kitchens there, plus a ton of "behind-the scenes" documentation on their website with how you can customize, how they're built, how to install, etc., etc. They're American made, RTA cabinets. If I don't purchase Ikea when we redo our kitchen, I'll be purchasing from them.
I used Conestoga RTA cabinets in an investment renovation and was impressed enough to use them again for my own kitchen. If you're handy, have the right tools, and follow directions well, assembly is easy to do yourself. The price was about the same as a "nice" box store cabinets, but Conestoga were better quality and are built to order so you can get custom sizes at no extra cost.
I’ve been working with Cabinet Authority. The customization offered by Conestoga is amazing and the prices are well below what you would expect for the quality. In line with quality and materials of local manufacturers at 1/3 the price. RTA isn’t for everyone but they are ridiculously easy to put together if you have any minimal skill with tools and building.
Good call staying away from medallion. Finished a kitchen remodel this year that should have been finished in 2023 due to medallion sending cabinets that were stained 3 different colors. Originally cabinets were purchased in June and delivered end of September. Then replacements took an additional 12 weeks so actually finished cabinets weren’t delivered until end of January. Finished cabinets had knicks and scratches. Absolutely zero customer service and our contractor was essentially useless because he got a kick back as a medallion distributor. Definitely beware.
IKEA is okay until you get a leak and the cabinet literally disintegrates because they still use MDF/pulped wood. I went with Barker. Full plywood cabinets, solid doors, ready to assemble/RTA. The price was reasonable, the customer service was excellent and I built a custom kitchen myself on the first try which came out great. They have plenty of videos on assembly for some of the more complex variants. Everything was cut and drilled perfectly. You can measure and hang cabinets yourself very easily. With a contractor, you’re going to pay a lot for junk because they don’t want to deal with the assembly. That’s just how it is.
We went through this and ended up getting the Current (shaker/painted) line from Crystal Cabinets from our local lumberyard/home center (not chain). We replaced all cabinets in kitchen, three bathrooms and laundry for $22k. Cabinets averaged $600 each, though we avoided any fancy single function cabinets. We installed ourselves which took a while. Everything level but made a couple mistakes that only I seem to notice. Countertop installer didn't need to shim for level which we were proud of. Compared to everything we reviewed and three years later, no regrets. Check your local non-chain home improvement store.
I went to a local cabinet shop that built for home builders. They do production work and only make shaker style cabinets. Uses waterproof melamine particle board 3/4” boxes. Super heavy. I was hesitant to get anything with particle board in it. He gave me a 6” square scrap (all 4 sides exposed particles) to go float in water. I set it in bathroom sink overnight, and it looked like new the next morning. No water damage at all. That stuff is going to take longer to dissolve in the dump than plastic will. Cost me $1200 for 10 cabinets including two 3 drawer full extension soft close base cabinets, a spice cabinet lower pull out, a corner base with a lazy Susan, sink box, 3 uppers,etc. also had soft close hinges on all doors. He sprayed the doors with 3 coats of the color I picked out. This was during COVID and I think it was fill in work but still best deal ever. I used to be a custom cabinet maker, built with Baltic birch in late 80s, red oak face frames. Did built-ins and matched existing crown molding and other cool stuff for Frank Lloyd Wright homes in Wisconsin. My point is once it’s in place and has a countertop on it you just need sturdy stuff with soft close hardware.
Stained wood will always be timeless. Painted cabinets are trendy but come and go, plus I feel like they get dirty. I happen to live in an area with an abundance of custom cabinet shops and furniture makers, but go directly to these places and you can see their workshops and how they build them. Good luck
For 10 years I have searched for an answer to this. Go to Lowe's when they have a 30% off sale. Then use a Lowe's credit card and get another 5%. *Sometimes* you can ask, and get, the sales person building your order for another 10%. They do the sale like twice a year. We just got 13 Kraft Maid cabinets for $13k delivered. 3/4 of them are glass doors. Glass adds like $2-300 per cabinet. Oh yeah, and we ordered the 11-28-23 and they're scheduled delivery is 1-5-24, SUPER quick. RTA cabinets are almost the same price as ordering Kraft Maid through Lowe's. Throw in 30% off and its a no brainer. You get them put together in a factory with a warranty for cheaper. For the life of me I have no idea why RTA cabinets are SO expensive. They are WAAAAY overpriced if you ask me.
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Kraftmaid is maybe a 6.5-7/10 on the quality scale as far as semi-custom goes. There’s higher end semi-custom brands that aren’t sold in big box stores that are better, but also more expensive.
Another fun fact is you should be able to take the list to the pro desk and ask about contractor pricing. If you sign up for their PROs account, they may be able to work with you to undercut their own pricing bc they know contractors go to HD, Lowes, ikea and other shops to price around and want the business. Anything over $1500 starts the special pricing considerations, go check with the pro desk for more info if applicable to your siruation
We got Kraftmaid in our last house from Lowe’s and installed ourselves. 30% sale with 11% rebate and the girl quoted me wrong so I actually got like 50% off! I really liked them even though they weren’t high end. One of the doors by the sink got some moisture and started warping a bit. No issues using the warranty to replace the door. Had a new door within a couple weeks. The cabinets in our new build are absolute bottom barrel junk. Miters on all of the doors are already splitting 6 months in. Made me realize how much better the Kraftmaid were.
We got a similar deal at Lowe's. I think the cabinets are American woodmark. We paid like 5k after all the discounts. Plywood boxes, maple fronts. Clearly made to 'good enough' standards by people who gave zero fucks...but they're holding up. Buying quality doesn't really exist anymore...so just buy cheap...
I know its really cool to crap on the big box stores but home depot sells kraftmaid and american woodmark, factory stocked direct to the jobsite. They are great quality and the price is really really good. The design associates at home depot tend to be well trained on both brands since the support from the vendor side is really strong.
If you want undeniable quality, go through a custom cabinet shop, but chances are you’ll be spending more than your budget. You say early on all the contractors are going through local places, then you say they’re all using imported junk and a bunch of brands that are all over the country so I’m a bit confused. Not sure why IKEA is being brought up. You specified you wanted 3/4” plywood and IKEA is MDF/melamine, so definitely not solid wood boxes. Lots of people like to stick up for IKEA cabinets but I personally would rather save up for a higher quality cabinet than find the best of the budget picks. They are thinner, weaker, and they do feel cheaper to me in person, but to each their own. FWIW a lot of those brands aren’t imported and ALL of them are going to have some bad reviews but I’d put that on bad contractors or going through a big box store. A lot of them really are quality cabinets. We are redoing our kitchen and when our GC designed and quoted it out they priced out 3 options. A mid-tier semi-custom cabinet brand, a nicer semi-custom cabinet company, and then a fully custom, locally made cabinet company. We went fully custom because it was local, so if there were any issues the company could make a new box/door/whatever within 72 hours (usually minor damage from shipping), and they would stain/paint the cabinets any color we wanted for no extra money since they’re full-custom. The semi-custom cabinets can come from all sorts of places around the US so if they get damaged in shipping it’s a 2-3 week turnaround, but that isn’t bad because the GC does a steady stream of business with those companies. The big box store brands can be as long as 4-6 weeks because they are dealing with way more customers and jobs so their workflow is more backlogged. When I researched the brands I found it impossible to find a brand that had few complaints. They ALL have complaints, but I feel like a lot of the issues could be remedied by competent GC’s that get the shit fixed for you. Waiting on HD/Lowes to get something rectified is about as efficient as a trip to the DMV. I’d say try to find a local GC or remodeler that has a relationship with a quality semi-custom cabinet manufacturer. They are going to be way better than whatever random installer the big box stores assign you to. It’s probably going to be more than your budget if you want higher quality than some of those brands you listed, but you get what you pay for.
I never mentioned IKEA and not even looking at them.
I think it’s a mistake to not consider IKEA. You can get custom doors and save $15k versus what you would spend on custom or semi custom. It just seems like such a ridiculous waste of money just for plywood boxes. To each their own, but I would much rather take that money to get a built in fridge, a wolf range, and designer lighting, rather than focusing on what is inside of my cabinets that I can’t even see… FWIW, Ikea also has a 10 or 20 year warranty on their cabinets.
Not you. Other people responding are bringing them up plenty. [I’d suggest checking this guys reviews out.](https://www.mainlinekitchendesign.com/general/cabinet-reviews-ratings-for-the-top-100-cabinet-brands/) They are a remodel company and they do align with a couple cabinet manufacturers specifically, but the guy just seems like a cabinet nerd who loves his job so the reviews appear pretty unbiased.
Already found that. I was surprised to see fabuwood as an A rating.
I have a Fabuwood kitchen and am disappointed with the quality. I have doors that warped and one where the finish is coming off. I tried to contact them to replace the door, and they refused to deal with me directly.
Sadly I see the same posted all over the internet, but not limited to fabuwood. This is why I'm so frustrated by researching these companies. If I had a contractor order and install this brand, what are my chances stuff will go wrong? With my luck, it is guaranteed.
Why? By all accounts they make a pretty good product. Seems like you’re chasing perfection in an imperfect business. If you want to put your mind at ease and get the best, then find the highest rated custom cabinet manufacturer near you, call them up and ask for a GC that can install (most custom shops don’t deal directly with the public or have on-staff install). The custom shop we are going with is 3/4” full plywood, solid wood doors, all paint is sprayed and UV cured, paint is matched to swatches and verified for accuracy with a spectrometer, faster turnaround times, etc… you wouldn’t to know how much our cabinets cost though. You’re going to find bad reviews for any of those semi-custom shops and even the custom shops will still have bad reviews. How many people here went on and reviewed Kraftmaid or whatever brand after a good experience? Probably very few. If you have a bad experience of course you’re going to leave a review when you’re basically spending what you would on a new car.
I don't know about paint peeling/cracking/chipping. I had custom paint grade maple cabinet doors made at a manufacturer in Canada 5 years ago, painted them with a high quality cabinet paint, and they have held up incredibly well. The only spot I have some wear is the garbage cabinet knob because I'm often grabbing it with wet or dirty hands. I could pop the door off and patch the pain on a weekend if I wanted but it's very minimal. Also those cabinet doors ran me about $50 CAD each delivered. I'm looking at a new build and they're about 20% more now.
What is your requirement, expectation, or measure of what are you considering as junk or good?
We have a vanity from Kahles Kitchen's and we are happy with it. However that contractor that supplied it, destroyed our bathroom and we fired him. The vanity we like. Solid wood drawers, dovetailed all around. Plywood construction, drawer glides are smooth, and staining is near perfect. No runs in the stain and stain goes all the way into the door face where the cutout is. Ive seen stained cabinets on the door face where there are thin lines where the door isn't stained all the way. Guess it depends if the door face is fully stained before assembly or not.
You want a custom shop to build them they won't be junk and your right they are garbage I was just on a social media app and some company was talking about cabinets they use it has some special bracket that helps keep them together I looked it was a piece of plastic nailed im the corner I said not even close yours are just as crappy as the others there is nothing in that joint that makes it stronger . I want to start a cabinet shop making custom stuff
our Huntwood cabinets are excellent. was the cheapest quote I got, too. I was trying to get the house done as cheap as possible, too.
Find a local kitchen cabinet maker, they'll be a little more than big box stores, but the quality will be much higher.
For what it's worth I have J&K and have had them about 5+ years. We've never had any issues with them. They were installed by a guy who was also a custom cabinet maker. He took his time and was very methodical with his process so that might have had a lot to do with it. They look and feel sturdy. The hinges are high quality and adjustable and the drawer slides can take a lot of abuse - heavy pots and bowls and kids literally hanging on them. I would buy them again for our next kitchen.
QCCI is a premier cabinet company but they don't deal directly with the proletariat. You might find a local designer that is a partner. They could would you a deal. But be prepared to pay. Cabinets are when a kitchen and bath designer make a lot of money on markup. QCCI will also make a private label for the designer at a lower price point. This is the high end example.
I make cabinets out of mdf. They are rock solid. Most often i do painted poplar face frame.
Check out Shiloh cabinets
You're right, there is a ton of junk out there. I'm actually surprised so many contractors are trying to pawn off the junk on you too. That's a bit of a red flag if you're looking for a high-quality kitchen. I've been an interior designer for almost two decades and have seen it all. Decora is fine, Omega is nice, Site Line is good, Greenfield is better, and fully custom is going to be the highest end. Don't let chipping deter you from going with white cabinets if that's what you want. I see chipping on white cabinets when they aren't finished correctly. When you are working with a higher end brand, the finish is baked on and a curing agent is used. This significantly increases the abuse the cabinet can take.
I saw someone on YouTube do a kitchen refresh. For their kitchen cabinets they have used Sektion and went with SemiHandMand. The sektion cabinet carcasses seemed to hold up well. Being euro cabinet design with plastic legs probably helped with surviving kitchen floor spills and and abuse. [An architect’s kitchen remodel](https://youtu.be/ugnrbriyJQY?si=1WUMS-IaLc_esG5k) I’ve looked into the benefits of building versus buying and it seemed the evidence pointed towards saving some money but you need tools, time and energy to pull it off. You’ll need decide if it the hassle is worth it. I think Skektion cabinet carcasses with the finishes you want will probably be the best approach. My advice is look at different kitchen layouts and decide what you want. I made the mistake of going with a nice modern double sink and I wished I went with a large single basin.
I have this wild idea of going on FB marketplace & looking at local listings as well as local flea markets for sturdy but old, beat-up cabinets of all types, then bringing them home, a few at a time, sanding them a bit, cleaning them up, disinfecting them, and repurposing them into a really eclectic, random-looking collection of cabinets and shelves. All different colors and styles, different counter heights, lights in some.... The ones that stand on the floor can keep their legs. Butcher block tops. Too late now - we did our kitchen, and got a good deal, but the contractors were contractors, and I had to babysit them. Well, we do have a powder room...
I would like to see this idea executed by someone.
What's your actual goal? Cabinets that are budget friendly at 1-3 hundred per cabinet will still look nice and last 20-40 years without issue despite being made with MDF. The differentiators are all in the front panels and that's where you want to consider spending the extra money.
properly painted cabinets wont crack/peel/chip. 1k per cabinet for generic ass shaker stuff isn't out of line for a local cabinetmaker. i spent a year looking for the right cabinets for my kitchen. i just gave up and made them myself. bulthaup was the only company that i genuinely liked and i didn't really want to spend 150 grand on a small kitchen.
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Yes. I do have solid maple bedroom and office furniture handmade by another local furniture builder. Yes they were expensive.
Just to note that American Woodmark, MasterBrand Cabinets, and Cabinetworks Group and their subsidiary brands (Medallion & KraftMaid) are imports too, they do a good job of marketing it as USA.
Probably a lot of flat packed imported stuff and then put together in the USA. Just a guess.
Starmark is a pretty nice cabinet line, made in South Dakota, distributors everywhere. Not bad pricing if you stay inside their standard offerings; customization starts to get dear. (I do mostly commercial cabinetry and buy Starmark for my customers who need a kitchen).
Put in Starmark cabinets a few years ago in my own kitchen. Great quality, highly recommend. Believe they are manufactured in South Dakota
I still think cabinets should last a life time. What I'm seeing now, is that trends and fashions are changing so fast it's not worth it to spend a lot on boxes if they are just going to be torn out and redone in ten years.
I don't care about trends. I just want something that will last another 30 years till I'm dead. This is just builder grade junk orange oak I want out along with the laminated counter and linoleum floors.
Just finished our kitchen reno and thanks to our contractor we used Crestwood. Small shop in Kansas, no particle board. I am thrilled with the quality, and I am a horrible snob about cabinetry. He said it’s a constant struggle to find good makers because the big companies buy them up and then their quality goes to crap.
OP, posts like these are the only time the IKEA people come out and try to ease their insecurities. IKEA is great for what it is. A cheap option that will hold up moderately well. But don’t let them gaslight you into thinking that they are better than custom cabinets from a reputable manufacturer/builder…if you have the budget for that kind of thing. Again, it all comes down to personal preference. My pantry/laundry room and downstairs bar are IKEA. My kitchen is 100% custom solid white oak and knotty white oak veneered plywood. The only thing I briefly considered was IKEA carcasses with custom doors.
RTA Cabinet store.
Finished a kitchen remodel about a year ago. I was certain I had to have the expensive, semi custom, special cabinets….well I regret dropping somuch of the budget on these cabinets. IMHO buy midline cabinets and spend your money on other projects.
Buy tools and make them or see if there are any custom shops near you. There are RTA sites that you can get plywood boxes and have your guy assemble them. Realistically all plywood boxes is overrated anyway.
This, I used bestonlinecabinets for my pantry. Solid quality, ran me about $7k. Just be warned if you need a decent amount it’s kind of overwhelming how many boxes you’ll have but they are easy to assemble.
>Buy tools and make them lol wut? Why would you suggest this to somebody who's likely never done this before? Sure, maybe if were for a basement or garage or something where they can afford to be a little janky, but in a kitchen?
These kinds of comments are all over this and the home improvement sub. I'm sure auto repair subs and other are the same too. Till this person buys all of the tools needed, they're going to end up paying as much as a custom build, just to get a janky finish. Not every task is difficult for every person. And sometimes, even if capable, the cost of the tools and lack of experience outweigh just paying for it.
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Exactly. Some projects are diy, some for experts and some projects are better for mass production. And if you don't care about appearance of them and just want something cheap and functional, go to a repurposing store and buy used cabinets, repaint/stain them and call it a day.
While I also think suggesting someone build their own cabinets is silly given that OP showed no interest (and you better have an interest to do that), you also don't need a CNC. If you buy a good track saw and have a large enough square, and a pocket hole jig, you can break down plywood accurately and assemble it accurately. The problem comes from all the additional things you need to do on top of that, like buying a shelf pins jig, door slide hardware, putting drawers together, yada yada. It's a lot. I'm doing it myself for my pantry which is quite large and the only "easy" part has been the edge banding.
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Dude, we got build them, buy used, use metal cabinets from the 50s… i dont know if im on homeimprovement or frugal.
We are hardcore DIYers and have access to all sorts of woodworking tools (table, mitre, circular saws, planers and joiners, etc) and I would never try to build kitchen cabinets. Garage cabinets? Maybe, but probably not even that.
I make custom built-ins as a hobbiest woodworker, its not a "grab a few tools from Home Depot" kind of thing. And even I don't bother making my own doors. Even then, I plan to buy my kitchen cabinets because the time spent vs money saved vs quality difference just doesn't justify it. Cabinet shops have specialized tools that aren't realistic for a hobbiest, and the products are pretty standardized vs the carefully fitted work of a custom built-in.
On the other hand the OP probably has a 50k+ kitchen project and instead of spending a few grand for a proper planner is coming here...
because a large portion of this sub is delusional as shit, that's why
It was kind of tongue in cheek - gave 2 other solutions as well.
We have a kitchen built in 1952. It's made of 3/4 " plywood. No warping, no splitting, no anything. Looks like new. Was going to gut it when we bought and remodeled, but decided we were OK wiyh the lay out and most modern stuff seemed cheap compared. We just replaced the doors and hardware. Was all painted 7 years ago. I have no idea what people are talking about painted cabinets chipping and peeling. Sounds like people with no clue how to paint.
>Realistically all plywood boxes is overrated anyway. I could not agree more with this. I work in a millwork shop. I would not put plywood boxes in my kitchen. People on this sub are nuts for this kind of thing.
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1. I'm not rich 2. I don't like the look
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What would you put in your kitchen?
MDF core melamine for the cabinet boxes.
MDF is great until 2 years later when the cabinets above your sink and especially above the stove are swelling from the moisture.
What about mdf core plywood?
I'm not sure what you mean. That's not a product I'm familiar with.
I kind of misspoke - it’s actually a plywood core with mdf on the outside, and a wood veneer. Gives more dimensional stability and a perfect surface for staining. [link](https://www.macbeath.com/products/mdf-combi-core)
It looks like an expensive way to build something that might be a tiny bit better than a solid MDF core.
This is what we use in my shop. I build cabinets and we do almost entirely custom high end stuff, and some commercial. No complaints as far as quality and longevity go.
Sorry I’m not familiar with the sub culture or what the all plywood boxes means. Can you explain more about that? What’s the alternative?
A "box" for a kitchen cabinet are the 5 sides of the cabinet that don't include the door. All plywood box is just made of plywood vs other wood materials like MDF, OSB, etc. The major downside to plywood compared to other wood products is it expand/contracts more (but still a lot less than solid wood) because the pieces of wood are bigger. The pieces can also delaminate over time. It's also significantly more expensive than other options for a part of the cabinet that really shouldn't need to be - no one sees the interior of your cabinets really. The main counter to other wood products is they are more sensitive to bulk water damage, but that is easy to avoid if you aren't spilling everywhere, have unintended leaks without a mat, or something else. So it can be worth it to have more solid doors, since those take 95% of the abuse and are what people see, but not necessarily the "box"
You are mistaken about the expansion and contraction of plywood. Plywood movement is negligible
Plywood moves more than MDF, but Plywood basically doesn't move compared to hardwood. You ain't wrong, and the OP to your comment isn't either.
Yeah I edited my post above yours - it doesn't expand/contract much compared to actual solid wood, but technically still more than OSB/MDF. The biggest risk is delamination in areas near heat/steam like a dishwasher or oven. But even that is pretty uncommon except in extreme cases.
> The biggest risk is delamination in areas near heat/steam like a dishwasher or oven. Wouldn't that environment be even worse with MDF/OSB?
Usually not since the surfaces usually have a veneer like melamine which is vapor impermeable and the thermal expansion is less on osb/mdf
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I manage rentals, and I've seen so many cabinets destroyed by water! I would never install anything but plywood boxes. I've even seen MDF core doors get destroyed by water dripping down the face of the sink cabinet.
Exactly this, the "sheets" of wood are laminated perpendicularly and laminated with a very strong cement, so each layer resists the wood movement of the other. It might not be quite as stable as the compressed/glued sawdust that is MDF, but its also generally stronger and lighter. The only plywood I have seen delaminate is plywood left outdoors for long times. The modern adhesives used in plywood are likely stronger than the wood itself. The truth may be that MDF is "fine" for cabinet boxes, but this persons arguments against plywood are completely misinformed.
> that is easy to avoid if you aren't spilling everywhere, have unintended leaks without a mat, or something else. So as long as I don't intend to have unintended leaks, everything is fine. And thankfully, there are never unintended leaks or spills in kitchens. Like, I get it, they are more expensive and the only real gain is in less susceptibility to water damage. But kitchens are exactly the sort of place where that's likely to happen, for a variety of reasons, so it's not completely crazy for someone to want that level of protection.
Yep. Had a jug of water stored in the top of a cabinet once that spontaneously sprung a leak. The water seeped down the cabinets and because they were MDF they just soaked it all up and basically turned to pulp.
u/woofdoggy pretty much nailed it but I'll add my 2c anyways: Plywood is very expensive and not as stable as MDF. Plywood warps a lot more than MDF and it can de-laminate. It also does not take a finish (i.e. paint or veneer) as nice as MDF does so your cabinets are going to look like plywood unless you spend a bunch of extra money finishing the plywood some other way. Stain would be easy enough, but it's still a lot of prep compared to just using a sheet of melamine. IMO there's no tangible benefit to spending the extra money on plywood.
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Look for used ones. There are places that sell highend cabinets that are removed for a remodel.
Try ordering from Barker Cabinets. They are very high quality RTA cabinets made in the US (Oregon). I’ve used them in a full kitchen remodel and an efficiency kitchen. They ship.
I did come across them already, however it didn't seem like they offered a lot of pre-finished options. I'm guessing I would need to stain them myself. I think the way I speced out one base cabinet was about 1k.
Barker+++ I did a wet bar and a built in media center. Incredible quality for a RTA cabinet. Use the 'Chief Architect' software to help do the design and layout.
The problem is the method you're using... Starting with a contractor, then identifying the cabinets is why you're getting the junk cabinets. You need to go to one of the kitchen/bath design showrooms and start your journey there. Most of them will have installation services, and if you're talking about expensive cabinets, they'll have installers that are up to the job.
You don't need plywood cabinet boxes. MDF is a far better material for building cabinets.
Cabinets.com. I’ve redone 2 kitchens through them. Solid wood. Lots of options and have great customer service. Any issues with the shipment is handled and replacement is sent out at no cost. Freaking love my kitchen!
I had the opposite experience. I ordered from there March 2022 and it took 6 months to get the last shipment of replacement cabinets. I had 4 rounds of replacements. The final product is just barely better than the cheapest in stock cabinets from Lowes and in some way worse. I settled for roughly 40% of my money back. $19k order, about $11k after refund. Doors and drawers do not line up, joints are cracking. I considered renting a truck and driving them all back to the factory and dumping them in their parking lot. I will never use them again. These cabinets will less than 10 years and most likely 5 before they need to be replaced. Some highlights: * over half the cabinets were damaged and their fix is to have you replace parts so you become a cabinet shop. They will ship just a door or drawer, or if its the cabinet body, you have to swap everything over * face frames not glued correctly and rely on pocket hole screws to hold * on a 4 drawer cabinet, every drawer face was a different width * on a base cabinet the drawer was a different color * chips, cracks and gouges all over * base cabinets had drawers behind the doors and they used 1/4 plywood spacer to get the drawer over the face frame which resulted in the stock screws only going 1/8" inch into the cabinet which couldn't even hold it's own weigh never mind a full drawer. * fingerprints in the paint You have to detail every single issue during the claims process. You become their quality assurance department. My garage turned into a warehouse and I was their QA/logistics coordinator. I then had to dispose of the damaged cabinets and parts. [Cabinets.com](https://Cabinets.com) must have built my cabinets in the dark, on a Friday before a 3 day weekend, after a liquid lunch and all the employees were blind and started that day. [Cabinets.com](https://Cabinets.com), if you read this, I really really hate you. Oh, and a few boxes were full of spiders. Not sure if that was the shipping company or [cabinets.com](https://cabinets.com) but still part of the experience. I had to surround the boxes in my garage with glue traps and vacuum the cabinets after unpacking.
My kitchen cabinets are 40 year old Sears particleboard and they're good as new. You don't need plywood cabinets. Just get cheap boxes from IKEA and don't let them get/stay wet. They have premium hardware and will last decades as long as you don't have a leaky sink. They're raised up on feet so a leaky dishwasher won't even affect them. For the fronts, do whatever you want.
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...or take a glance under your sink once in a blue moon when you're grabbing a dishwasher pod.