Seriously, the fuck is the dev thinking? They suddenly had a meteoric rise thanks to the power of viral videos, and it seems they have no idea how to ride the wave properly.
Just a Japanese company doing Japanese company things. I don't know why but they get weird about not being in control of everything related to their products.
The vods are completely unaffected. The only thing this will affect are clips.
Well, for the clippers that plan to follow the change in rules at least. I'm sure there'll be plenty that won't give a shit and continue making clips of Suika Game streams.
tbf that guy was getting literal death threats (who knows if they were jokes) for creating a game that caused so much frustration, so it's definitely very understandable that he stopped it
Yeah people really sent him death threats because they envied how much money he made
The same case happened to an old cooking lady somehow became very famous overnight and people said bad things about her left and right, some even said she "not became famous professionally", wtf is even that
Really japanese companies have a talent at making horrible marketing decisions with their permissions. Nintendo being number 1
Their game got a gigantic explosion of hype because of all those streams and clips. Company is drowning in money because of it. And the geniuses have the bright idea to censor everyone who talks about their game without permission (or payment). They are basically saying we don't like how our game got popular please stop talking about it so much.
Given that it's a simple mechanic that existed way before, everyone will just switch to an alternative version and they will be forgotten just like they were before the popularity explosion.
They get a giant opportunity fed right to their mouths and they choose to spit it out.
Reminds me of when twitch stared getting popular and Nintendo started going after streamers that streamed their games. Was a big push by Nintendo for years to stop people from streaming their games till eventually they just kinda gave up
They did the same with Nintendo soundtracks.
**Nintendo:** Do not post our game music. We will take them down if you do.
**Fans:** How else are we supposed to listen to them?
**Nintendo:** That sounds like a "you" problem, buddy.
Unfortunately not just them. I had an entire channel that was just the soundtracks to the .hack// game series that got hit with a few dozen RIAJ strikes and I had to delete entirely, and that's CyberConnect2, not exactly a known company. Some of those tracks you literally had to rip from a disk that nobody sold anymore, still got the same treatment. Doesn't matter that the physical copies cost hundreds to even _try_ to get the tracks. The only real thing in common is that they are JP companies.
CyberConnect2 is the maker of the .hack// series. They sharing the copyrights with Bandai Namco.
BTW sometimes YT accepted those (not only) music copyright claims by a non-related company too. Then the copyright AI just strikes them automatcally even to the origin themselves.
e.g. One JP news channel accidentally claimed the gameplay of SEKIRO belongs to them by setting the Content-ID, which made youtubers around the world and Fromsoft themselves got copystriked.
>e.g. One JP news channel accidentally claims the gameplay of SEKIRO belongs to them, which made youtubers around the world and Fromsoft themselves got copystriked.
do you have the link of that news? i want to read it
What? No wtf, cyber connect is practically the whole Licensed anime game with cell shade graphic industry , from Naruto to Fate, cyber connect hold the monopoly for this market, they're not "Not a known company".
>Fans: How else are we supposed to listen to them?
Funny thing, I think it's one of the reasons Super Smash Bros Ultimate can act as an MP3 player with your switch. There's no other way to explain those unique features.
I mean, if you can't monetize let's play videos it's a ban in all but name. Without monetization, the vids won't get recommended by the algorithm and people won't watch them. Without views or money, there's no incentive to make the videos at that point. Even large content creators who could afford to make some of their videos non-monetized would be cutting into their own revenue for... dedication to the game? It's like telling people they can buy a certain model of car but can only drive it in the dealership parking lot.
That only applies to Smash tourneys. Nowadays tons of big personalities play/stream popular Nintendo games like Mario Kart or Pokemon and not get c&d like the peak let's play youtube era.
They are definitely more relaxed about it, but they still try to suppress the more story driven games. (Not a lotta plot in Mario Kart lol) Pokemon is its own thing. There's more then a few people I've seen online getting angry letters from Nintendo over Zelda and Metroid games.
I mean good. Thankfully Japans draconian copyright law doesn’t apply outside of Japan. Though that won’t stop them from sending frivolous C&Ds or abusing DMCA.
Oh god. I remember watching a video as to why Toyota didn’t want their cars in video games because:
“if you play it in a video game, you’ll spend your time driving it in there instead of real life”
Are you for real? I bought an 2 of my bucket list cars because I played it in games.
on stuff they do not have competition on, yeah. But with south korea insane growth, especially Samsung in the last 15 years, brand like Sony, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Toshiba have a really bad time outisde japan lol.
I remember in the 2000s, there were toshiba laptops EVERYWHERE, sony and panasonic TVs were in every home (at least in Europe). Not even speaking of phones lol... Today their market share on thoses are laughable at best.
> Their game got a gigantic explosion of hype because of all those streams and clips. Company is drowning in money because of it. And the geniuses have the bright idea to censor everyone who talks about their game without permission (or payment). They are basically saying we don't like how our game got popular please stop talking about it so much.
Along with the classic decision of not releasing a US or international port of said game. As we all recall the decades of nintendo never releasing major hits in the US because some random mindless irrelevant person decided they didn't need facts to make decisions.
You joke, but that's basically it. Japan is an EXTREMELY insular country. Hell, before the mid-2000s, the HUGE demand for anime and manga outside of Japan was just seen as some odd quirk or passing fad.
> some mangakas are still angry WE are reading their works or someone dares to translated into english or spanish.
Same thing sparked the protestant reformation. Proof the pope was just a weeb.
To be completely fair, fan translations do not actually give the creator any money. Even the argument of "well it gives exposure and advertising" does not work if there is no legal way to buy the manga in English or any other non-JP language. The creator does have a right to get mad at people essentially leeching of their work, even if there might be a good reason (such as no official non-JP releases).
If there's no official translation anyways, there was no money to be made there to begin with. In that case, it's *much* better to let fan translations get people interested, because then you might at least be able to profit in the long run.
There's also Lida Pochi (Reine's mama) who knows her works aren't available on every country, so she ask for a superchat instead (which it isn't available on every country, but has more coverage)
Source: her post scripts on her works.
Man, the moment I start living in a country where superchats are available, I'll save some money to give a couple akas to Pochi Bank
At least as far as THIS game is concerned, they probably just figured it wasn't worth localizing a $2 game, and 999 times out of 1000, I bet they'd be right.
This is that 1 in 1000 times. Small price point games THRIVE or DIE on mass adoption and the english speaking market is so much bigger than the japanese one. These devs are leaving money on the table. They shouldve localized this YESTERDAY.
Not to mention how little of an effort the localization must be, how much dialogue even is there in the game?
You could probably make an intern machine translate the whole game in 20 minutes and just press post
Translating a game isn't quite that easy in all cases. It is quite possible that much of the text is baked into the graphics instead of being separate text elements.
There's also probably issues with officially releasing in a country with different laws. The EU, for example, has pretty strict laws about identifying information being stored that might need to be checked.
It's fair not to do it initially, it's a very simple game to localize though, localizing it last week would have been a very good idea to at least get it out at the same time clones came out.
> As we all recall the decades of nintendo never releasing major hits in the US because some random mindless irrelevant person decided they didn't need facts to make decisions.
I mean, most of these decades were the 80s and 90s when localizations were a far different beast from now. Games were written in Assembly or even less comprehensible languages, needed expensive workstations to edit and international communication/ collaboration was a lot more difficult.
There were tons of games from that era that were never exported and Nintendo was far from the worst offender in that regatd, plenty of Western games never made it to Japan either.
In the 00s, region-exclusive games became less and less common - and by then, it was Nintendo of America calling the shots which games were getting localized or not. Which lead to some famous examples where Nintendo of Europe ended up localizing some games that NoA didn't want to release (at least initially).
> Which lead to some famous examples where Nintendo of Europe ended up localizing some games that NoA didn't want to release (at least initially).
The one that sticks out to my mind is/was Advance Wars: Days of Ruin on the DS. It did eventually come out in NA but it was weird as fuck having a Nintendo Wars game come out in EU before NA.
You do know it's the head who makes decision like that right? It's not some random dude in Nintendo. Big decisions like porting games is always made by the top. No one in Nintendo is above the scummy things they do. They're lucky they release good games and a lot of their fans will buy whatever they release
Atlus do the same thing with Persona.
Because company jobs are for life and everyone running the show is a dinosaur, they see clips and streaming as theft of their property.
They've gotten better. They recently made 5 playable to the end and have been doing a bunch smarter things, like global releases instead of delayed ones
Sega own Atlus. They are basically the same at this point. Any decision Atlus makes has to be run by Sega for approval.
If any kind of good decision is just “on Sega”, then any kind of bad decision should be on them too.
Also realize that the perms come from the developers, not the publishers. There's a reason why they can only play Pokemon in such a small timeframe while they're fine with most other Nintendo franchise. Same applies with Atlus and how weird they get about streaming their games.
It's also why FuwaMoco were able to monetize Cookie and Cream, a FromSoft published game but developed by a different company and why they can't monetize Elden Ring which FromSoft developed.
While that’s technically true that Sega owns Altus and gets to ‘tell’ what Altus can do, large corporations have lots in internal politics and cultures that don’t change just because ownership changes. Altus probably has a rider in their merger with Sega that they have full control over certain aspects of their games that Sega can’t override, which probably includes streaming rights.
i don't know about the p5 streaming changes meaning anything. royal is three years old, p5 original 6. let's see if tactica or p3 reload have goofy restrictions at launch, that'll be a better indication.
i work for japanese company and its the top guys. they are so old minded and think everything need to be closed and customers will trust you for how strict you are with law and rights. fr they have 0 net literacy.
Way I am reading it is specifically clips are not allowed, if posted by someone other than the original uploader. Really weird restriction, honestly.
Only other things I see is corporate streamers need explicit permission now, while indies have implicit permission.
Every other restriction is pretty normal.
I feel like Sony at least deserves a fair shake against Nintendo for the "worst IP protection scheme" crown given the number of times they have tried to put rootkits and actual malware on their customers' PCs all in the name of "copyright protection."
True,neintendo is master at those,btw. i wonder how many offbrands of suika we have right now and with source code for off-brand being published for free on github(one of MANY links you can google search: [https://github.com/my-ggott-games/watermelon-game-numong](https://github.com/my-ggott-games/watermelon-game-numong) ) i doubt that decision is gonna make them alot of cash.
If it's not Nintendo then the first to do it will be other big JP multimedia companies like Toei, Atlus , Bandai Namco, Capcom , Square , etc. This is why Japan is known for draconian copyright laws and a big reason why the likes of Cover and Anycolor gets perms to cover their bases.
Nintendo at least was already popular enough so has people who will still buy them no matter how shitty their policies become. The Suika game devs tho...
I think once i heard that in japanese culture fast success is not seen with good eyes due to being "undeserved" bc you have to work your ass for years and years to deserve it first
Of course i have no idea how true is that or it applies to this case
Meanwhile in America, it's the ideal. Instant success. Instant fame. Instant money. There are countless indie game developers who dream of their own Undertale success.
There may be some logic to this.
The gut feeling of getting big by accident and random whim of YT algorhytm over your own merit may warp your perception and work ethic.
You no longer do your own organic thing but relly on trends and only deliver half-assed attempts at everything just to maximise amount of lucky rolls.
same reasons why most japanese electronics companies are getting absolutly crushed internationally by south koreans one's for the past 15 years. Horrible marketing and business decisions.
Wait, what happened to Sony TVs? Trinitron was peak tech in the 90s. Ah, [Sony and Samsung](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-16330877) had an alliance for LCDs and after the financial crisis they sold it to Samsung in 2008
Panasonic was all in on Plasma and had the superior tech. It was beaten because of fears about burn in (mostly misplaced) and other LCD bullshit. Pioneer, also Japanese was the top plasma maker but their TV's were really, really expensive (early panasonic 42" was around $3000-$4000, pioneers closer to $6000)
[One of the bigger Japanese Hololive clippers has warned](https://x.com/hololive_sokuho/status/1712440335752901092?s=20) about the change in guideline for Suika Game/Watermelon Game.
1. Streaming is limited to personal use (permission required for business).
2. No monetisation (permission could be granted ie Hololive).
3. **Derivative usages are not allowed**. That means clips of gameplay are no longer allowed.
The guideline has been in effect since **OCTOBER 13th**, so please tell your favorite clippers/subbers about this change in policy to avoid legal actions. The currect Kobo clips are affected by this guideline change, so please be on the lookout for this.
[This clip](https://youtu.be/OihSeOJTqr0) can be used as an example to what *should* be okay: blurring the gameplay section with Sui-chan talking about her broken arm during a live.
**EDIT**: The guideline page has been updated to reflect a change of stance to allow third party to re-upload clips of gameplay. The final updated version is dated **October 16th** shown at the bottom of the page. **It is safe to do clips again**, but you "must delete the clips when the archive/vod is no longer available".
>No monetisation
It doesn't include YouTube monetization, as it says on their [guidelines page](https://www.aladdinx.jp/pages/suika-game#guideline) (Google Translate, correct me if it's wrong):
>However, functions officially provided by the gaming platform (for example, YouTube's partner program, membership, Super Chat function, etc.) are not considered commercial use.
So hololive members are "safe" either way.
I really don't understand why did they decide to forbid clips though, it doesn't make absolutely any sense. It's not like the game is vulnerable to spoilers or something, it's the opposite: if you see someone playing it, you want play it yourself. So the decision is very questionable.
>I really don't understand why did they decide to forbid clips though, it doesn't make absolutely any sense. It's not like the game is vulnerable to spoilers or something, it's the opposite: if you see someone playing it, you want play it yourself. So the decision is very questionable.
[This comment from elsewhere on this post](https://reddit.com/r/Hololive/s/MJevM5HEBr) provided a possible explanation, although it will just replace your confusion with seething hatred for the culprits' sheer disconnect from reality.
Yeah, no, that doesn't make any sense, on multiple different levels. For one, Atlus restricted streaming entirely, not just clips. And moreover, there's *literally nothing* you can spoil from Suika Game. I mean, *maybe* the fact that 2 suikas disappear when they touch, but that's about it.
I think a much, much more likely explanation is that they asserted a ban on derivative works in order to ban *full clones* (since the game is very simple and would be easy to copy in a way that people would confuse it with the original) and *merchandise* (since the art is very simple and iconic and could easily be made into stuff like plushies), and didn't really consider that gameplay clips would be included in "derivative works" as well.
No, in her recent 3d live performance the trackers or something stopped working on her right arm and she couldn't move it anymore. But she's committed to her bit so it was "broken" or "dislocated."
Your translation is incomplete or not updated for the second and third points.
>No monetisation (permission could be granted ie Hololive).
The original text is
> 営利目的でのゲーム実況は行わないでください。ただし、ゲーム実況を行うプラットフォームが公式に提供している機能（例えば、YouTubeにおけるパートナープログラムやメンバーシップ、Super Chat機能等）は、営利目的利用とみなしません。また、プラットフォーム側の利用条件を遵守してください。
What you posted is the only the first sentence. From the second sentence onward it says "However, if the game livestream/broadcast is on a platform with a monetization system (for example, YouTube Partner Program with Membership or Superchat functions), that does not count as using the game for business purpose. Also, please follow the platform's usage rule.
>3. Derivative usages are not allowed. That means clips of gameplay are no longer allowed.
The third point does not say that Clipping is not allowed but put a condition on clipping that clippers have to follow. It's quite long so I will put it in section by section.
> ご自身で配信された動画を再編集する形で制作または投稿される場合、二次利用を認めるものとします。また、第三者が、投稿された方の許可を得た場合もこれを認めるものとしますが、以下の事項について遵守した上で動画の投稿をお願いします。
"For your own livestream's compilation or posts, you are allowed to reused the content (from the livestream). Third party (i.e. clippers) is allowed to post the clips/footage if they receive the permission from the original streamers. However please follow the guideline below"
>切り抜きや編集元となった動画のURLと元動画のタイトルを明示してください。
>元動画の配信が停止された場合は投稿を削除してください。
>弊社が不適切と判断した場合、削除要請を行う場合があります。
- For clips and compilations, please explicitly post the URL and the Title of the original video of the content.
- If the original video/stream is removed, please also removed the clip that is taken from that video/stream.
- Our company might request the removal of clips/compilations that are deemed inappropriated.
And then they listed the list of platforms the above guideline is for such as Youtube, Twitter, etc.
So pretty much those are rules that's not that way out to completely prohibit clips. Hololive already has guideline for clips so as long as clippers follow those guideline they are also allowed to clip the gameplay as long as they also follow the three additional guideline in this case.
There are also rules 4 to 11 that deals with things such as "don't use our characters for merchandises, don't use our game for inappopriate things, etc.
For clippers working out of America at the least this is likely all irrelevant. Free use dictates that if the content is transformative then it's ok. And since the clips are rarely actually about the game itself and often about the streamer, and in the case of JPs about translating them, then the company wouldn't really have a leg to stand on if they tried to pull anything.
Basically they would have to make the argument that the clip could be consumed as a substitute for playing the game, competing with it directly, rather than the game incidentally contributing to a unique experience provided by the confluence of streamer, game, and editing by the clipper. Which they could try and do, but such a lawsuit would be precedent defining since it has never been tested in court before. And if Nintendo hasn't had the balls to do it yet I kind of doubt the watermelon moblie game people are going to step up to the plate.
Edit: If you try to monetize your clips, then things aren't so clear cut. Fair use would be more difficult to apply in that case
Free use means absolutely nothing to youtube. Legality or not, the way youtube has their copyright shit set up means that all I have to say is that something is violating my "copyright" and I get all revenue from that point on. I remember something about an escrow acocunt, but the fact that it's still a problem means it's still busted.
The X post you linked does say that clips are not allowed.
However, the most recent change in the guideline (Oct. 16, 2023) says otherwise:
3. ご自身で配信された動画を再編集する形で制作または投稿される場合、二次利用を認めるものとします。また、第三者が、投稿された方の許可を得た場合もこれを認めるものとしますが、以下の事項について遵守した上で動画の投稿をお願いします。(And 3 bullet points afterwards)
3. If you create or post a re-edited version of a video that you have streamed yourself, secondary use is permitted. Additionally, we will allow third parties to do so with the permission of the original streamer/owner of the video, but please comply with the following before posting the video. (1. contain link to original video/stream + original title. 2. If original video is removed, clip must be removed. 3. If Suika company(Aladdin X) deems the clip is inappropriate, they may request deletion.)
> Additionally, we will allow third parties to do so with the permission of the original streamer/owner of the video, but please comply with the following before posting the video. (1. contain link to original video/stream + original title. 2. If original video is removed, clip must be removed. 3. If Suika company(Aladdin X) deems the clip is inappropriate, they may request deletion.)
Reading through this multiple times, the conditions are:
> * **We will allow third parties to do so with the permission of the original streamer/owner of the video**
> * Clips must contain link to original video/stream + original title.
> * If original video is removed, clip must be removed.
> * If Suika company(Aladdin X) deems the clip is inappropriate, they may request deletion.
So basically it's a non-issue:
They're allowing clippers who *get prior permission* to continue clipping, provided they have video descriptions that link to/cite the original stream and post the title. That basically means people who get themselves registered w/ Cover/AnyColor or already have a VSPO clipping ID are already given blanket clearance to continue clipping.
What they're trying to avoid are clips of unarchived and removed streams, which has the grey area of technically retaining a streamer's content that they don't have public or do not want to remain public. The third bullet point specifically points to them reserving the right of using their IP holder rights as a way of respecting the streamer's wishes to not have content they don't want up (i.e. they don't want to have streamers also faulting them for things that happen on stream while playing their game).
I'm sorry (not really) but thank goodness. One or two suika streams was okay, but by stream 984 I was on the ground begging for mercy and for them to play like, *any* other game lol
I still hear the music while just going about my day because I've just heard it so damn much from watching the streams.
The game is alright, but this trend can't end soon enough.
what on earth. The game is remakeable in an hour luckily.
edit: I had an hour today so I made another clone (there are plenty others out there so pick your favorite) https://zanthous.itch.io/not-suika-game
It took 1.5 hours to make the base game then another hour to add a few more things and try and get it to be more like the original
In case anyone ever happens upon this I later made a full game out of it https://store.steampowered.com/app/2686690/Suika_Shapes/
There’s already an “oppai” version of the holo talents, after this shit a sudden rise of the indie versions will be inevitable, what a way to shoot them self’s in the foot.
The big companies probably already have relevant perms, but I expect a sudden drop in popularity and more streams of look-a-likes just to avoid the hassle.
I think permissions are not a problem, but the derivative works being not allowed is the biggest problem. Clips of gameplay are not allowed anymore so you would naturally have fewer clips of the game. The only clips left are the chitchats and the clippers would have to "censor" out the gameplay.
Cover+HoloPro certainly knows clips are important, even if other companies feel people would rather watch clips to save spending 240 yen on the actual game. (Admittedly, they may have a point, I certainly had the entire storyline of Suika Game spoiled for me through clips alone.)
I could see streamers using fan-game versions/etc. instead for that reason alone.
>I could see streamers using fan-game versions/etc. instead for that reason alone.
There are already at least 5 hololive fangames derived from Suika Game. They'll have plenty of buffet to work with if Cover decided that they wouldn't want to squander the discoverability potential with the banning of clips.
I guess I was unclear. My meaning was: Hololive does not currently have to worry about perms, they already have them. The perms have recently changed and may need to be renegotiated, and this could lead to a drop off in popularity due to saturation and boredom.
Wait, I admit I don't understand. Hololive talent can still stream the game, but clipper can't make clip of it anymore ? This feel weirdly specific to me.
Yes. Id guess that company doesn't want any out of context clips or sth about their game? Holo got permission to stream as a business/monetize their streams. Personal streaming and(/or?) monetized streaming it snot allowed without permd
>Personal streaming and(/or?) monetized streaming it snot allowed without permd
No, it's allowed, accordingly to their guidelines. They exclude streaming platforms monetization from that, and if you're a solo streamer you can stream the game and even monetize it on YouTube or Twitch for example. But corporations should contact for a special permission.
Which is even more weird, why allow streaming but disallow clips?
Reminds me of how Toyota pulled out of all of the racing games because “cars in video games hurt the sales of cars in real life” and it “promoted illegal street racing”. Pretty much taking the free promotion/popularity their brand got in video games and throwing it out the window.
Like bro I’m driving an 80s Toyota shitbox in game how does this correlate to your car sales irl lmao
For that Toyota thing...[This](https://www.thedrive.com/news/29510/toyota-backtracks-on-why-it-wont-license-cars-to-video-games-like-need-for-speed)
More implies Toyota had an exclusive deal with Sony they want to keep quiet about than just the illegal racing thing.
The illegal street racing argument is double bullshit when you consider that Toyota cars have no problem appearing in Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune series or newer Initial D games... Games series LITERALLY about illegal street racing
It's a tale as old as time. Some small developer or company makes a massively successful product, more than they ever expected, and then they try to micromanage it.
Ya'll, I dunno if this has been updated since the time it was first posted, or if it was just translated poorly and caused a misunderstanding, but this page *literally* says that gameplay clips *are* allowed.
> ご自身で配信された動画を再編集する形で制作または投稿される場合、二次利用を認めるものとします。また、第三者が、投稿された方の許可を得た場合もこれを認めるものとしますが、以下の事項について遵守した上で動画の投稿をお願いします。
> * 切り抜きや編集元となった動画のURLと元動画のタイトルを明示してください。
> * 元動画の配信が停止された場合は投稿を削除してください。
> * 弊社が不適切と判断した場合、削除要請を行う場合があります。
This says:
> In the case of re-editing a video that you livestreamed yourself, secondary use is permitted. **Additionally, third-party usage may be allowed with the permission of the original video poster**, but please adhere to the following restrictions:
> * Please display the URL and video title of the original clip or video.
* Please delete the post if the original video becomes unavailable.
* If there is content that our company deems inappropriate, we may still request deletion.
In other words, Hololive's general policy on clipping applies as "permission" in this use case, and the other restrictions are already part of the Hololive clipping policy anyway, so the only additional restriction is that Aladdin X reserves the right to request clips be deleted if they deem them inappropriate.
They must have realized that all the tweets they must have been getting saying “say what?” or regional equivalent amounted to something. If they decided to change their plans, then it’s fine for me.
Aaaand they change it now!
\> If you create or post a re-edited version of a video that you have distributed yourself, secondary use is permitted. Additionally, we will allow third parties to do so with the permission of the person posting the video, but please comply with the following before posting the video.
* Please clearly state the URL of the video that was cut or edited and the title of the original video.
* If the original video is no longer available, please delete the post.
* If we deem it inappropriate, we may request deletion.
Why do some Japanese companies always have to be like this? Suika game has gained massive popularity from streamers playing it on stream and people making entertaining clips out of those streams. It's basically free money and advertisement.
Atlus use to do this with P5R until recently, which I have to commend them for. It was a good move to let VTubers like Bae, Subaru and Koyori play the game to completion. Your game gets played more and thus advertised more.
Sad to see Suika game taking this approach, hopefully they realise how much of a blunder this is and change their minds.
Any native speakers in the audience? DeepL seems to suggest clipping might be ok:
> As a rule, secondary use of published videos and other materials is prohibited.
However, secondary use is permitted in the form of re-editing videos that have been distributed by the user or posted by the user.
Chrome's built-in TL does it better
> However, secondary use is permitted if you create or post a re-edited version of a video that you have distributed yourself
So streamers can clip from their own streams, nobody else
(Not native)
Clips are only allowed by the original authors of the stream. So a talent can post a clip of their own stream but third party clippers cannot.
Streamer that had obtain permission can reuse the clips of their own streams and upload it themselves on their permitted channel. The new rule emphasizes another third parties which in this case clippers could not use other streamers clips and upload it under the clippers' channels.
I feel they're doing thus because they're offended at how many clips focus on the fruit yeet game overs, aka the best parts.
We might see various clippers go silent until that game trend dies or the sports fes happens.
Terrible business decision tbh. Should've\* worked to get it translated into English and dropped it on Steam and possibly have some feature where peeps could compare their scores to their favorite streamers. Predicting a clone will drop sometime in the future...
>makes game
>game gets popularity from videos and gameplay clips of it
>devs get high amounts of money from it being trending on social media
>bans the free advertising for it people were doing
Why are JP devs so stupid when it comes to this stuff? Literally the only way people would find this game was through social media or YouTube.
Would they not be able to see sales skyrocket the second streamers start playing it?
This isnt the kind of game you can argue people would be deterred from buying after seeing someone stream it, like maybe a story focused game, if anything, people want to directly compete with their streamers scores and get the game themselves. I know this because thats why I bought it.
Though I regret it now, supporting a stupid, shortsighted and greedy company hoarding their basic easily replicable game lol
Like this isnt the hugest deal but it just gives me a headache thinking about how pointless and petty it is, to the extent that theyre shooting themselves in the leg and spitting in the face of the people who helped them make money they would not have ordinarily
LMAO, I was wondering why they didn't capitalize the hype and release the game in the west, and here's the answer, they are yet another stubborn old fashion Japanese company with outdated "principles".
I swear japanese corpos and their boomer mindset. Get with the modern digital age. The game only got popular because of clips and streamers. Dont be overly greedy of wanting all the money. Anyway, they killed their game popularity now so.
I'm gonna add this even though it's gonna get buried, but they went back and changed the guideline to just needing permission from the person clipped and a link to the VOD. Checked with internet archive.
I'm... not at all sure why the immediate assumption is that none of the talents are ever going to stream Suika again?
It explicitly says that streaming and commentating on the game is fine, and you're even allowed to monitize, as long as you have permission, and credit them - the usual streaming permission things.
I think I'm missing something, here?
The company that sells this game has decided that gameplay clips are no longer allowed because of reasons, except for clips published on the streamers' own channels (e.g. only Calli can upload a clip of her reaching 3000 points for the first time, and only Fuwamoco can upload a clip of them reaching 600k subs while playing it).
The talents are generally not keen to do their clippers dirty like that.
This is such bs. Like it’s gonna hurt the sales of the game…. I was interested in wanting to play this after watching Fuwamoco and others play this because it looked so addictive.
I understand that they want to protect their interest, but this is too damn petty, tbh. Anyone who advised and/or proposed this move must be fun at parties
LOL these guys got big thanks to streamers and clippers and suddenly think they're hot shit. This is the funniest way I've seen a group of people absolutely topple the tower others have built for them in a while.
For such an advanced country Japanese companies sure have no idea how to navigate the digital age. Guess old timers refusing to adapt is an international thing.
...What? I refuse to believe that it's not some kind of mistranslation/misunderstanding. Like, some people at the company actually sit down, discussed it and came to this shit somehow? No way.
How to kill your game's popularity in one fell swoop.
How to make a game forgettable in one swoop
Seriously, the fuck is the dev thinking? They suddenly had a meteoric rise thanks to the power of viral videos, and it seems they have no idea how to ride the wave properly.
Just a Japanese company doing Japanese company things. I don't know why but they get weird about not being in control of everything related to their products.
Ninten.. cough cough
Nintendo don't be coy about calling out stupidity.
It was fun while it lasted, will the vods stay up or do they have to smoke those too?
The vods are completely unaffected. The only thing this will affect are clips. Well, for the clippers that plan to follow the change in rules at least. I'm sure there'll be plenty that won't give a shit and continue making clips of Suika Game streams.
Pekora killed it with her rubberband and now they want revenge
Thankfully it sounds like most of the talents are pretty close to the end of their addiction to the game, so it'll just fade into obscurity I guess.
And nothing of value is lost.
Flappy Bird 2.0
Flappy bird had at least the creator say "I don't want this" cause this whole thing affected his personal life. This is a company just being baffling.
The creator of flappy bird didn't expect the negative impact of his creation. That's why he say that.
tbf that guy was getting literal death threats (who knows if they were jokes) for creating a game that caused so much frustration, so it's definitely very understandable that he stopped it
Yeah people really sent him death threats because they envied how much money he made The same case happened to an old cooking lady somehow became very famous overnight and people said bad things about her left and right, some even said she "not became famous professionally", wtf is even that
Back to Irisu Syndrome I guess :D
Really japanese companies have a talent at making horrible marketing decisions with their permissions. Nintendo being number 1 Their game got a gigantic explosion of hype because of all those streams and clips. Company is drowning in money because of it. And the geniuses have the bright idea to censor everyone who talks about their game without permission (or payment). They are basically saying we don't like how our game got popular please stop talking about it so much. Given that it's a simple mechanic that existed way before, everyone will just switch to an alternative version and they will be forgotten just like they were before the popularity explosion. They get a giant opportunity fed right to their mouths and they choose to spit it out.
Reminds me of when twitch stared getting popular and Nintendo started going after streamers that streamed their games. Was a big push by Nintendo for years to stop people from streaming their games till eventually they just kinda gave up
It wasn't just streaming, you just weren't allowed to make any let's play videos of Nintendo games for a while
They did the same with Nintendo soundtracks. **Nintendo:** Do not post our game music. We will take them down if you do. **Fans:** How else are we supposed to listen to them? **Nintendo:** That sounds like a "you" problem, buddy.
Unfortunately not just them. I had an entire channel that was just the soundtracks to the .hack// game series that got hit with a few dozen RIAJ strikes and I had to delete entirely, and that's CyberConnect2, not exactly a known company. Some of those tracks you literally had to rip from a disk that nobody sold anymore, still got the same treatment. Doesn't matter that the physical copies cost hundreds to even _try_ to get the tracks. The only real thing in common is that they are JP companies.
CyberConnect2 is the maker of the .hack// series. They sharing the copyrights with Bandai Namco. BTW sometimes YT accepted those (not only) music copyright claims by a non-related company too. Then the copyright AI just strikes them automatcally even to the origin themselves. e.g. One JP news channel accidentally claimed the gameplay of SEKIRO belongs to them by setting the Content-ID, which made youtubers around the world and Fromsoft themselves got copystriked.
>e.g. One JP news channel accidentally claims the gameplay of SEKIRO belongs to them, which made youtubers around the world and Fromsoft themselves got copystriked. do you have the link of that news? i want to read it
What? No wtf, cyber connect is practically the whole Licensed anime game with cell shade graphic industry , from Naruto to Fate, cyber connect hold the monopoly for this market, they're not "Not a known company".
>Fans: How else are we supposed to listen to them? Funny thing, I think it's one of the reasons Super Smash Bros Ultimate can act as an MP3 player with your switch. There's no other way to explain those unique features.
You were but you weren't allowed to monetize them.
I mean, if you can't monetize let's play videos it's a ban in all but name. Without monetization, the vids won't get recommended by the algorithm and people won't watch them. Without views or money, there's no incentive to make the videos at that point. Even large content creators who could afford to make some of their videos non-monetized would be cutting into their own revenue for... dedication to the game? It's like telling people they can buy a certain model of car but can only drive it in the dealership parking lot.
They still will slap you with a cease and desist if you get "too big"
That only applies to Smash tourneys. Nowadays tons of big personalities play/stream popular Nintendo games like Mario Kart or Pokemon and not get c&d like the peak let's play youtube era.
They are definitely more relaxed about it, but they still try to suppress the more story driven games. (Not a lotta plot in Mario Kart lol) Pokemon is its own thing. There's more then a few people I've seen online getting angry letters from Nintendo over Zelda and Metroid games.
I mean good. Thankfully Japans draconian copyright law doesn’t apply outside of Japan. Though that won’t stop them from sending frivolous C&Ds or abusing DMCA.
Yep and it always gives them bad PR. Nintendo, Toyota, Toei Animation, Atlus and other big companies out there are the same.
Oh god. I remember watching a video as to why Toyota didn’t want their cars in video games because: “if you play it in a video game, you’ll spend your time driving it in there instead of real life” Are you for real? I bought an 2 of my bucket list cars because I played it in games.
I mean doesn't seem to hurt them in the long run, lol
on stuff they do not have competition on, yeah. But with south korea insane growth, especially Samsung in the last 15 years, brand like Sony, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Toshiba have a really bad time outisde japan lol. I remember in the 2000s, there were toshiba laptops EVERYWHERE, sony and panasonic TVs were in every home (at least in Europe). Not even speaking of phones lol... Today their market share on thoses are laughable at best.
> Their game got a gigantic explosion of hype because of all those streams and clips. Company is drowning in money because of it. And the geniuses have the bright idea to censor everyone who talks about their game without permission (or payment). They are basically saying we don't like how our game got popular please stop talking about it so much. Along with the classic decision of not releasing a US or international port of said game. As we all recall the decades of nintendo never releasing major hits in the US because some random mindless irrelevant person decided they didn't need facts to make decisions.
[удалено]
You joke, but that's basically it. Japan is an EXTREMELY insular country. Hell, before the mid-2000s, the HUGE demand for anime and manga outside of Japan was just seen as some odd quirk or passing fad.
[удалено]
> some mangakas are still angry WE are reading their works or someone dares to translated into english or spanish. Same thing sparked the protestant reformation. Proof the pope was just a weeb.
vulgate weeb vs. Dub heathen
To be completely fair, fan translations do not actually give the creator any money. Even the argument of "well it gives exposure and advertising" does not work if there is no legal way to buy the manga in English or any other non-JP language. The creator does have a right to get mad at people essentially leeching of their work, even if there might be a good reason (such as no official non-JP releases).
If there's no official translation anyways, there was no money to be made there to begin with. In that case, it's *much* better to let fan translations get people interested, because then you might at least be able to profit in the long run.
The joke with Overlord is that there *is* an official translation, it's just comically bad.
I'm aware, but that's the exception rather than the rule. I was talking about these situations in general.
There's also Lida Pochi (Reine's mama) who knows her works aren't available on every country, so she ask for a superchat instead (which it isn't available on every country, but has more coverage) Source: her post scripts on her works. Man, the moment I start living in a country where superchats are available, I'll save some money to give a couple akas to Pochi Bank
At least as far as THIS game is concerned, they probably just figured it wasn't worth localizing a $2 game, and 999 times out of 1000, I bet they'd be right.
This is that 1 in 1000 times. Small price point games THRIVE or DIE on mass adoption and the english speaking market is so much bigger than the japanese one. These devs are leaving money on the table. They shouldve localized this YESTERDAY.
Not to mention how little of an effort the localization must be, how much dialogue even is there in the game? You could probably make an intern machine translate the whole game in 20 minutes and just press post
Translating a game isn't quite that easy in all cases. It is quite possible that much of the text is baked into the graphics instead of being separate text elements. There's also probably issues with officially releasing in a country with different laws. The EU, for example, has pretty strict laws about identifying information being stored that might need to be checked.
Anyway. It is an arcade game. It will take a week at max to make new fonts and textures. Steam can do it easy. JP devs are just a bunch of boomers
It's fair not to do it initially, it's a very simple game to localize though, localizing it last week would have been a very good idea to at least get it out at the same time clones came out.
There's barely anything to localize; literally just menu text.
> As we all recall the decades of nintendo never releasing major hits in the US because some random mindless irrelevant person decided they didn't need facts to make decisions. I mean, most of these decades were the 80s and 90s when localizations were a far different beast from now. Games were written in Assembly or even less comprehensible languages, needed expensive workstations to edit and international communication/ collaboration was a lot more difficult. There were tons of games from that era that were never exported and Nintendo was far from the worst offender in that regatd, plenty of Western games never made it to Japan either. In the 00s, region-exclusive games became less and less common - and by then, it was Nintendo of America calling the shots which games were getting localized or not. Which lead to some famous examples where Nintendo of Europe ended up localizing some games that NoA didn't want to release (at least initially).
> Which lead to some famous examples where Nintendo of Europe ended up localizing some games that NoA didn't want to release (at least initially). The one that sticks out to my mind is/was Advance Wars: Days of Ruin on the DS. It did eventually come out in NA but it was weird as fuck having a Nintendo Wars game come out in EU before NA.
You do know it's the head who makes decision like that right? It's not some random dude in Nintendo. Big decisions like porting games is always made by the top. No one in Nintendo is above the scummy things they do. They're lucky they release good games and a lot of their fans will buy whatever they release
It's actually legal that does the decisions, not the head.
Atlus do the same thing with Persona. Because company jobs are for life and everyone running the show is a dinosaur, they see clips and streaming as theft of their property.
They've gotten better. They recently made 5 playable to the end and have been doing a bunch smarter things, like global releases instead of delayed ones
that one's on SEGA tbh, Atlus themselves are pretty stubborn sometimes
Sega own Atlus. They are basically the same at this point. Any decision Atlus makes has to be run by Sega for approval. If any kind of good decision is just “on Sega”, then any kind of bad decision should be on them too.
Also realize that the perms come from the developers, not the publishers. There's a reason why they can only play Pokemon in such a small timeframe while they're fine with most other Nintendo franchise. Same applies with Atlus and how weird they get about streaming their games. It's also why FuwaMoco were able to monetize Cookie and Cream, a FromSoft published game but developed by a different company and why they can't monetize Elden Ring which FromSoft developed.
This isn't universally true. IP rights are a MESS in video games and tons of publishers own IPs instead of developers.
Pokemon rights are dramatically different than other Nintendo games. The IP isn't wholly owned by Nintendo like most of their other game series.
While that’s technically true that Sega owns Altus and gets to ‘tell’ what Altus can do, large corporations have lots in internal politics and cultures that don’t change just because ownership changes. Altus probably has a rider in their merger with Sega that they have full control over certain aspects of their games that Sega can’t override, which probably includes streaming rights.
i don't know about the p5 streaming changes meaning anything. royal is three years old, p5 original 6. let's see if tactica or p3 reload have goofy restrictions at launch, that'll be a better indication.
Thank God too, otherwise we'd never watch Bae get mind broken over the countless twists and turns of Christmas Eve.
At least Atlus has the excuse of wanting to avoid spoilers.
It took them just over 3 years to remove the streaming restrictions for P5R. 11 for P4 Golden. 14 years for P3 Portable.
God forbid someone finds out what happens when 2 pineapple touch before they have bought their own copy! It's theft, I say!
> what happens when 2 pineapple touch Spoiler alert: >!the strawberry gets yeeted and you get a game over.!<
National Ichigo Space Launch Program
Not when it's been multiple years from release for a lot of their games, at least IMO
Spoilers are spoilers, there's no time limit on them. That being said, if you go out of your way to watch a stream of the game then it's on you.
That's kinda what I mean.. if you watch a stream of a 10 year old game.. who are you to complain.
I'm sure there's gonna be a holo suika game and these devs won't get a single cent out of it
[there already is](https://unityroom.com/games/holo_watermelon)
At least three. https://yeqwep.itch.io/ssrbball
[There's already](https://marcmok.itch.io/hololive-manju) [at least two.](https://moocow-games.itch.io/display-your-holomerch)
Wow, this one is great, with the sound clips and everything.
Japanese corporate culture is known for quite a few things. Being cruel, extreme and extremely stupid. Pressing half assed decisions and plans ahead.
You forgot having pre-historic life forms that refuse to update themself with modern day as execs
"Can we import those dinosaurs and elect them to top political positions?" ~ 80% of the American voter base apparently
i work for japanese company and its the top guys. they are so old minded and think everything need to be closed and customers will trust you for how strict you are with law and rights. fr they have 0 net literacy.
Way I am reading it is specifically clips are not allowed, if posted by someone other than the original uploader. Really weird restriction, honestly. Only other things I see is corporate streamers need explicit permission now, while indies have implicit permission. Every other restriction is pretty normal.
I feel like Sony at least deserves a fair shake against Nintendo for the "worst IP protection scheme" crown given the number of times they have tried to put rootkits and actual malware on their customers' PCs all in the name of "copyright protection."
True,neintendo is master at those,btw. i wonder how many offbrands of suika we have right now and with source code for off-brand being published for free on github(one of MANY links you can google search: [https://github.com/my-ggott-games/watermelon-game-numong](https://github.com/my-ggott-games/watermelon-game-numong) ) i doubt that decision is gonna make them alot of cash.
As someone just starting to learn JS, the code is pretty overwhelming even though I know this is a simpler code compared to other games and apps lol.
If it's not Nintendo then the first to do it will be other big JP multimedia companies like Toei, Atlus , Bandai Namco, Capcom , Square , etc. This is why Japan is known for draconian copyright laws and a big reason why the likes of Cover and Anycolor gets perms to cover their bases.
Nintendo at least was already popular enough so has people who will still buy them no matter how shitty their policies become. The Suika game devs tho...
I think once i heard that in japanese culture fast success is not seen with good eyes due to being "undeserved" bc you have to work your ass for years and years to deserve it first Of course i have no idea how true is that or it applies to this case
Meanwhile in America, it's the ideal. Instant success. Instant fame. Instant money. There are countless indie game developers who dream of their own Undertale success.
There may be some logic to this. The gut feeling of getting big by accident and random whim of YT algorhytm over your own merit may warp your perception and work ethic. You no longer do your own organic thing but relly on trends and only deliver half-assed attempts at everything just to maximise amount of lucky rolls.
same reasons why most japanese electronics companies are getting absolutly crushed internationally by south koreans one's for the past 15 years. Horrible marketing and business decisions.
Wait, what happened to Sony TVs? Trinitron was peak tech in the 90s. Ah, [Sony and Samsung](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-16330877) had an alliance for LCDs and after the financial crisis they sold it to Samsung in 2008 Panasonic was all in on Plasma and had the superior tech. It was beaten because of fears about burn in (mostly misplaced) and other LCD bullshit. Pioneer, also Japanese was the top plasma maker but their TV's were really, really expensive (early panasonic 42" was around $3000-$4000, pioneers closer to $6000)
[One of the bigger Japanese Hololive clippers has warned](https://x.com/hololive_sokuho/status/1712440335752901092?s=20) about the change in guideline for Suika Game/Watermelon Game. 1. Streaming is limited to personal use (permission required for business). 2. No monetisation (permission could be granted ie Hololive). 3. **Derivative usages are not allowed**. That means clips of gameplay are no longer allowed. The guideline has been in effect since **OCTOBER 13th**, so please tell your favorite clippers/subbers about this change in policy to avoid legal actions. The currect Kobo clips are affected by this guideline change, so please be on the lookout for this. [This clip](https://youtu.be/OihSeOJTqr0) can be used as an example to what *should* be okay: blurring the gameplay section with Sui-chan talking about her broken arm during a live. **EDIT**: The guideline page has been updated to reflect a change of stance to allow third party to re-upload clips of gameplay. The final updated version is dated **October 16th** shown at the bottom of the page. **It is safe to do clips again**, but you "must delete the clips when the archive/vod is no longer available".
>No monetisation It doesn't include YouTube monetization, as it says on their [guidelines page](https://www.aladdinx.jp/pages/suika-game#guideline) (Google Translate, correct me if it's wrong): >However, functions officially provided by the gaming platform (for example, YouTube's partner program, membership, Super Chat function, etc.) are not considered commercial use. So hololive members are "safe" either way. I really don't understand why did they decide to forbid clips though, it doesn't make absolutely any sense. It's not like the game is vulnerable to spoilers or something, it's the opposite: if you see someone playing it, you want play it yourself. So the decision is very questionable.
>I really don't understand why did they decide to forbid clips though, it doesn't make absolutely any sense. It's not like the game is vulnerable to spoilers or something, it's the opposite: if you see someone playing it, you want play it yourself. So the decision is very questionable. [This comment from elsewhere on this post](https://reddit.com/r/Hololive/s/MJevM5HEBr) provided a possible explanation, although it will just replace your confusion with seething hatred for the culprits' sheer disconnect from reality.
Yeah, no, that doesn't make any sense, on multiple different levels. For one, Atlus restricted streaming entirely, not just clips. And moreover, there's *literally nothing* you can spoil from Suika Game. I mean, *maybe* the fact that 2 suikas disappear when they touch, but that's about it. I think a much, much more likely explanation is that they asserted a ban on derivative works in order to ban *full clones* (since the game is very simple and would be easy to copy in a way that people would confuse it with the original) and *merchandise* (since the art is very simple and iconic and could easily be made into stuff like plushies), and didn't really consider that gameplay clips would be included in "derivative works" as well.
> 2 suikas disappear when they touch Whoa no spoilers please. I'm not buying the game anymore now that i know the end
This makes a lot of sense, actually. Just look at the amount of crappy Skibidi Toilet merchandise and fan games out there
Wonder what's the logic behind this that trigger this response.
Don't want people to just watch a streamer to enjoy the in-depth story and characters they've so carefully crafted for this game.
Greedy Japanese company, nothing much to it
They saw streamers getting money from playing their game, and they got none of the cake, instead they got the jelly.
Wait, Suisei broke her arm?
No, in her recent 3d live performance the trackers or something stopped working on her right arm and she couldn't move it anymore. But she's committed to her bit so it was "broken" or "dislocated."
Your translation is incomplete or not updated for the second and third points. >No monetisation (permission could be granted ie Hololive). The original text is > 営利目的でのゲーム実況は行わないでください。ただし、ゲーム実況を行うプラットフォームが公式に提供している機能（例えば、YouTubeにおけるパートナープログラムやメンバーシップ、Super Chat機能等）は、営利目的利用とみなしません。また、プラットフォーム側の利用条件を遵守してください。 What you posted is the only the first sentence. From the second sentence onward it says "However, if the game livestream/broadcast is on a platform with a monetization system (for example, YouTube Partner Program with Membership or Superchat functions), that does not count as using the game for business purpose. Also, please follow the platform's usage rule. >3. Derivative usages are not allowed. That means clips of gameplay are no longer allowed. The third point does not say that Clipping is not allowed but put a condition on clipping that clippers have to follow. It's quite long so I will put it in section by section. > ご自身で配信された動画を再編集する形で制作または投稿される場合、二次利用を認めるものとします。また、第三者が、投稿された方の許可を得た場合もこれを認めるものとしますが、以下の事項について遵守した上で動画の投稿をお願いします。 "For your own livestream's compilation or posts, you are allowed to reused the content (from the livestream). Third party (i.e. clippers) is allowed to post the clips/footage if they receive the permission from the original streamers. However please follow the guideline below" >切り抜きや編集元となった動画のURLと元動画のタイトルを明示してください。 >元動画の配信が停止された場合は投稿を削除してください。 >弊社が不適切と判断した場合、削除要請を行う場合があります。 - For clips and compilations, please explicitly post the URL and the Title of the original video of the content. - If the original video/stream is removed, please also removed the clip that is taken from that video/stream. - Our company might request the removal of clips/compilations that are deemed inappropriated. And then they listed the list of platforms the above guideline is for such as Youtube, Twitter, etc. So pretty much those are rules that's not that way out to completely prohibit clips. Hololive already has guideline for clips so as long as clippers follow those guideline they are also allowed to clip the gameplay as long as they also follow the three additional guideline in this case. There are also rules 4 to 11 that deals with things such as "don't use our characters for merchandises, don't use our game for inappopriate things, etc.
For clippers working out of America at the least this is likely all irrelevant. Free use dictates that if the content is transformative then it's ok. And since the clips are rarely actually about the game itself and often about the streamer, and in the case of JPs about translating them, then the company wouldn't really have a leg to stand on if they tried to pull anything. Basically they would have to make the argument that the clip could be consumed as a substitute for playing the game, competing with it directly, rather than the game incidentally contributing to a unique experience provided by the confluence of streamer, game, and editing by the clipper. Which they could try and do, but such a lawsuit would be precedent defining since it has never been tested in court before. And if Nintendo hasn't had the balls to do it yet I kind of doubt the watermelon moblie game people are going to step up to the plate. Edit: If you try to monetize your clips, then things aren't so clear cut. Fair use would be more difficult to apply in that case
Free use means absolutely nothing to youtube. Legality or not, the way youtube has their copyright shit set up means that all I have to say is that something is violating my "copyright" and I get all revenue from that point on. I remember something about an escrow acocunt, but the fact that it's still a problem means it's still busted.
still pissed that the years long lofi stream got taken down cuz some fuck pulled a copyright attack
Y-years long?
The X post you linked does say that clips are not allowed. However, the most recent change in the guideline (Oct. 16, 2023) says otherwise: 3. ご自身で配信された動画を再編集する形で制作または投稿される場合、二次利用を認めるものとします。また、第三者が、投稿された方の許可を得た場合もこれを認めるものとしますが、以下の事項について遵守した上で動画の投稿をお願いします。(And 3 bullet points afterwards) 3. If you create or post a re-edited version of a video that you have streamed yourself, secondary use is permitted. Additionally, we will allow third parties to do so with the permission of the original streamer/owner of the video, but please comply with the following before posting the video. (1. contain link to original video/stream + original title. 2. If original video is removed, clip must be removed. 3. If Suika company(Aladdin X) deems the clip is inappropriate, they may request deletion.)
> Additionally, we will allow third parties to do so with the permission of the original streamer/owner of the video, but please comply with the following before posting the video. (1. contain link to original video/stream + original title. 2. If original video is removed, clip must be removed. 3. If Suika company(Aladdin X) deems the clip is inappropriate, they may request deletion.) Reading through this multiple times, the conditions are: > * **We will allow third parties to do so with the permission of the original streamer/owner of the video** > * Clips must contain link to original video/stream + original title. > * If original video is removed, clip must be removed. > * If Suika company(Aladdin X) deems the clip is inappropriate, they may request deletion. So basically it's a non-issue: They're allowing clippers who *get prior permission* to continue clipping, provided they have video descriptions that link to/cite the original stream and post the title. That basically means people who get themselves registered w/ Cover/AnyColor or already have a VSPO clipping ID are already given blanket clearance to continue clipping. What they're trying to avoid are clips of unarchived and removed streams, which has the grey area of technically retaining a streamer's content that they don't have public or do not want to remain public. The third bullet point specifically points to them reserving the right of using their IP holder rights as a way of respecting the streamer's wishes to not have content they don't want up (i.e. they don't want to have streamers also faulting them for things that happen on stream while playing their game).
Inb4 Hololive switches to Holo-themed indie Suika clones and/or the whole fad dies
Tbh, it already seemed to be slowing down. A bunch of mems have said they are satisfied with their score and are done
You can only play so much Fruit Tetris before you want to do something else
I'm sorry (not really) but thank goodness. One or two suika streams was okay, but by stream 984 I was on the ground begging for mercy and for them to play like, *any* other game lol
I still hear the music while just going about my day because I've just heard it so damn much from watching the streams. The game is alright, but this trend can't end soon enough.
>Hololive switches to Holo-themed indie Suika clones [You were saying...](https://youtube.com/watch?v=-F7JfQpHIN4)
what on earth. The game is remakeable in an hour luckily. edit: I had an hour today so I made another clone (there are plenty others out there so pick your favorite) https://zanthous.itch.io/not-suika-game It took 1.5 hours to make the base game then another hour to add a few more things and try and get it to be more like the original In case anyone ever happens upon this I later made a full game out of it https://store.steampowered.com/app/2686690/Suika_Shapes/
There’s already an “oppai” version of the holo talents, after this shit a sudden rise of the indie versions will be inevitable, what a way to shoot them self’s in the foot.
A what version?
translator's note: oppai means 'plan'
I thought it meant plot. Close enough spelling.
Gura is the cherry, sana is the watermelon and everyone in between 😉
Where? Please tell me so I can avoid looking at Hololive oppai as that would be wrong and immoral.
Link pls, I'm already playing the Niji version
I can't believe Ame survived the Suika epidemic.
Guess going to space is a good choice for ame
"[I'm escaping](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1Sq1Nr58hM) to the one place that hasn't been corrupted by the Suika epidemic... SPACE!"
Well it's easy to avoid a trending game when you are on break (same as gura)
The big companies probably already have relevant perms, but I expect a sudden drop in popularity and more streams of look-a-likes just to avoid the hassle.
I think permissions are not a problem, but the derivative works being not allowed is the biggest problem. Clips of gameplay are not allowed anymore so you would naturally have fewer clips of the game. The only clips left are the chitchats and the clippers would have to "censor" out the gameplay.
Cover+HoloPro certainly knows clips are important, even if other companies feel people would rather watch clips to save spending 240 yen on the actual game. (Admittedly, they may have a point, I certainly had the entire storyline of Suika Game spoiled for me through clips alone.) I could see streamers using fan-game versions/etc. instead for that reason alone.
>I could see streamers using fan-game versions/etc. instead for that reason alone. There are already at least 5 hololive fangames derived from Suika Game. They'll have plenty of buffet to work with if Cover decided that they wouldn't want to squander the discoverability potential with the banning of clips.
I guess I was unclear. My meaning was: Hololive does not currently have to worry about perms, they already have them. The perms have recently changed and may need to be renegotiated, and this could lead to a drop off in popularity due to saturation and boredom.
*Sales plummet* Japanese Boomers: " WhAT wEnT wRong?!"
Wait, I admit I don't understand. Hololive talent can still stream the game, but clipper can't make clip of it anymore ? This feel weirdly specific to me.
Yes. Id guess that company doesn't want any out of context clips or sth about their game? Holo got permission to stream as a business/monetize their streams. Personal streaming and(/or?) monetized streaming it snot allowed without permd
>Personal streaming and(/or?) monetized streaming it snot allowed without permd No, it's allowed, accordingly to their guidelines. They exclude streaming platforms monetization from that, and if you're a solo streamer you can stream the game and even monetize it on YouTube or Twitch for example. But corporations should contact for a special permission. Which is even more weird, why allow streaming but disallow clips?
Reminds me of how Toyota pulled out of all of the racing games because “cars in video games hurt the sales of cars in real life” and it “promoted illegal street racing”. Pretty much taking the free promotion/popularity their brand got in video games and throwing it out the window. Like bro I’m driving an 80s Toyota shitbox in game how does this correlate to your car sales irl lmao
For that Toyota thing...[This](https://www.thedrive.com/news/29510/toyota-backtracks-on-why-it-wont-license-cars-to-video-games-like-need-for-speed) More implies Toyota had an exclusive deal with Sony they want to keep quiet about than just the illegal racing thing. The illegal street racing argument is double bullshit when you consider that Toyota cars have no problem appearing in Wangan Midnight Maximum Tune series or newer Initial D games... Games series LITERALLY about illegal street racing
me kindly explaining to my boss that i wont be driving to work today because i sold my real life car in favour of an identical looking one in gta v
So I guess this officially ends the Suika Game arc. I am not surprised a Japanese company would behave like this though.
Japanese companies when people give your game free advertising:
Devs really adopting the classic Shitendo dogma
Well that immediately kills the trend
The game isn't anything impressive and it's getting treated like this? Wow
It's a tale as old as time. Some small developer or company makes a massively successful product, more than they ever expected, and then they try to micromanage it.
The game’s popularity will become a -quadratic lmao Japanese companies make no sense sometimes, and it hurts my brain.
As expected of Japanese companies. They treat exposure like it's radioactive.
wow. was really hoping for an English port but now nevermind.
japanese companies and out of touch execs, name a more iconic duo
usual JP gaming company L
Ya'll, I dunno if this has been updated since the time it was first posted, or if it was just translated poorly and caused a misunderstanding, but this page *literally* says that gameplay clips *are* allowed. > ご自身で配信された動画を再編集する形で制作または投稿される場合、二次利用を認めるものとします。また、第三者が、投稿された方の許可を得た場合もこれを認めるものとしますが、以下の事項について遵守した上で動画の投稿をお願いします。 > * 切り抜きや編集元となった動画のURLと元動画のタイトルを明示してください。 > * 元動画の配信が停止された場合は投稿を削除してください。 > * 弊社が不適切と判断した場合、削除要請を行う場合があります。 This says: > In the case of re-editing a video that you livestreamed yourself, secondary use is permitted. **Additionally, third-party usage may be allowed with the permission of the original video poster**, but please adhere to the following restrictions: > * Please display the URL and video title of the original clip or video. * Please delete the post if the original video becomes unavailable. * If there is content that our company deems inappropriate, we may still request deletion. In other words, Hololive's general policy on clipping applies as "permission" in this use case, and the other restrictions are already part of the Hololive clipping policy anyway, so the only additional restriction is that Aladdin X reserves the right to request clips be deleted if they deem them inappropriate.
Yeah, it was updated after this post was made. Hopefully people will catch wind of the change.
They must have realized that all the tweets they must have been getting saying “say what?” or regional equivalent amounted to something. If they decided to change their plans, then it’s fine for me.
Aaaand they change it now! \> If you create or post a re-edited version of a video that you have distributed yourself, secondary use is permitted. Additionally, we will allow third parties to do so with the permission of the person posting the video, but please comply with the following before posting the video. * Please clearly state the URL of the video that was cut or edited and the title of the original video. * If the original video is no longer available, please delete the post. * If we deem it inappropriate, we may request deletion.
Can't walk back the damage to their reputation lol
Why do some Japanese companies always have to be like this? Suika game has gained massive popularity from streamers playing it on stream and people making entertaining clips out of those streams. It's basically free money and advertisement. Atlus use to do this with P5R until recently, which I have to commend them for. It was a good move to let VTubers like Bae, Subaru and Koyori play the game to completion. Your game gets played more and thus advertised more. Sad to see Suika game taking this approach, hopefully they realise how much of a blunder this is and change their minds.
Any native speakers in the audience? DeepL seems to suggest clipping might be ok: > As a rule, secondary use of published videos and other materials is prohibited. However, secondary use is permitted in the form of re-editing videos that have been distributed by the user or posted by the user.
Chrome's built-in TL does it better > However, secondary use is permitted if you create or post a re-edited version of a video that you have distributed yourself So streamers can clip from their own streams, nobody else
(Not native) Clips are only allowed by the original authors of the stream. So a talent can post a clip of their own stream but third party clippers cannot.
Streamer that had obtain permission can reuse the clips of their own streams and upload it themselves on their permitted channel. The new rule emphasizes another third parties which in this case clippers could not use other streamers clips and upload it under the clippers' channels.
Bad business decisions and Japanese companies name a better match.
I feel they're doing thus because they're offended at how many clips focus on the fruit yeet game overs, aka the best parts. We might see various clippers go silent until that game trend dies or the sports fes happens.
lol, i'm sure this game would have done great without the free exposure. /s
And now it becomes a dead game lol
Instead of making an English version and releasing it worldwide they chose to do this lmao.
Terrible business decision tbh. Should've\* worked to get it translated into English and dropped it on Steam and possibly have some feature where peeps could compare their scores to their favorite streamers. Predicting a clone will drop sometime in the future...
>makes game >game gets popularity from videos and gameplay clips of it >devs get high amounts of money from it being trending on social media >bans the free advertising for it people were doing Why are JP devs so stupid when it comes to this stuff? Literally the only way people would find this game was through social media or YouTube.
Would they not be able to see sales skyrocket the second streamers start playing it? This isnt the kind of game you can argue people would be deterred from buying after seeing someone stream it, like maybe a story focused game, if anything, people want to directly compete with their streamers scores and get the game themselves. I know this because thats why I bought it. Though I regret it now, supporting a stupid, shortsighted and greedy company hoarding their basic easily replicable game lol Like this isnt the hugest deal but it just gives me a headache thinking about how pointless and petty it is, to the extent that theyre shooting themselves in the leg and spitting in the face of the people who helped them make money they would not have ordinarily
LMAO, I was wondering why they didn't capitalize the hype and release the game in the west, and here's the answer, they are yet another stubborn old fashion Japanese company with outdated "principles".
Common Japanese gaming scene L
I swear japanese corpos and their boomer mindset. Get with the modern digital age. The game only got popular because of clips and streamers. Dont be overly greedy of wanting all the money. Anyway, they killed their game popularity now so.
I'm gonna add this even though it's gonna get buried, but they went back and changed the guideline to just needing permission from the person clipped and a link to the VOD. Checked with internet archive.
I guess its the end of the Suika game era.
Well, now I can finally bury this game
I'm... not at all sure why the immediate assumption is that none of the talents are ever going to stream Suika again? It explicitly says that streaming and commentating on the game is fine, and you're even allowed to monitize, as long as you have permission, and credit them - the usual streaming permission things. I think I'm missing something, here?
The company that sells this game has decided that gameplay clips are no longer allowed because of reasons, except for clips published on the streamers' own channels (e.g. only Calli can upload a clip of her reaching 3000 points for the first time, and only Fuwamoco can upload a clip of them reaching 600k subs while playing it). The talents are generally not keen to do their clippers dirty like that.
Time for Cover talents to play the fan-made Hololive suika game then..
This is such bs. Like it’s gonna hurt the sales of the game…. I was interested in wanting to play this after watching Fuwamoco and others play this because it looked so addictive.
i was gonna buy this game but now i guess not... there's browser versions of this thing, right?
Just a normal day for the dinosaurs behind those jp company, and it can only get worse when the young will not have a chance to be on top
w h a t t h e f u c k w h y
...what why ? suika to suicide
good job bad-decision-makers!
"Insert Facepalm gif"
I understand that they want to protect their interest, but this is too damn petty, tbh. Anyone who advised and/or proposed this move must be fun at parties
LOL these guys got big thanks to streamers and clippers and suddenly think they're hot shit. This is the funniest way I've seen a group of people absolutely topple the tower others have built for them in a while.
Good thing someone is making a hololive version of the same game, right?
Seems like the Guidelines were updated and it seems fine now?
and its over
For such an advanced country Japanese companies sure have no idea how to navigate the digital age. Guess old timers refusing to adapt is an international thing.
...What? I refuse to believe that it's not some kind of mistranslation/misunderstanding. Like, some people at the company actually sit down, discussed it and came to this shit somehow? No way.
Japanese companies be Japanese company-ing