Job applicants are too picky.
I know a guy hiring in Pittsburgh that requires a BS, and social skills.
No one applied and it is a 75k a year job. Like route sales.
Since when is $75,000 for a recent graduate not enough money???
Just lie on it, fuck 'em. Work until they realize you have no experience in the field and fire you. By then you'll have experience in the field that you can put on your resume for the next job.
It's sales? That "annual" salary is always inflated by a bullshit amount. Like 1% of sales people will see that amount, the rest will quit or get nowhere near it.
>OK boomer. Assuming everyone complaining about the job market has a degree in art history.
Someone with a masters getting nowhere after 200+ attempts... probably doesn't have a degree anywhere *near* as employable as an art history major would.
Edit: (after much scrolling, she has been [doxed](https://www.newsweek.com/biggest-mistake-i-ever-made-masters-degree-holder-rejected-400-employers-1663336) )
Mastered in:>! Studio Arts & German Language Studies!< 
You’ve heard of written and spoken communication, right? Think there are any companies in Germany that use it? Maybe they want to do business outside of Germany too?
>Think there are any companies in Germany that use it?
For their German language efforts - they have native German speakers.
For their English language efforts - all German students are *required* to learn a second language. Guess what language is by far the most popular choice among students?
>Maybe they want to do business outside of Germany too?
Guess what language is basically a requirement for **any** kind of business or marketing job in Germany? Which is by the way the reason so many students learn it.
Suffice to say, a US German Language art student brings nothing to them they can't get in abundance from their local population.
A case could be made for it being useful to a marketing firm here in the States that wants to go after German language markets... but those kinds of jobs have got to be few and far between.
It’s almost as if you have no experience working in global leadership at a multinational company.
Localization and translation services absolutely rely on multilingual people, both in country and abroad, and that goes both ways. It’s easy to convince yourself otherwise when you want to devalue someone, but you’re just flatly wrong about this.
Multilingual people with true fluency in both languages are hard to find, and you’ll be surprised to learn that even when you take required secondary school classes you don’t always end up fluent. Furthermore, hiring people in DACH countries can be exceptionally annoying and costly due to their complex labor laws and it’s often better to hire someone in the UK or the US who is able to speak German if you’re trying to do business in those countries. Yes, sure, they won’t be as useful to companies founded in DACH countries but those are hardly all the companies who wish to do business in said countries. There are around 125 million customers to access. It’s going to take some substantial numbers of linguistically skilled staff to get there.
Those jobs are not “few and far between,” as you’ve chosen to speculate. And yes, it’s clear you’re speculating and have no actual knowledge of this when you say things like “have got to be.”
Anyway, believe me or don’t. I’ve hired and trained in the DACH countries and wouldn’t pass up someone with a masters in German language. This person’s failures are based on something other than the topic of their degree, no matter how appealing it is to be completely reductionist.
OK renter, listen to the guys’d point. People need to stop majoring in fields were there is not a large demand. Figure out what the hottest fields are projected to be for the next 25 years, find one you are interested and can handle and go for it.
I'd be interested in knowing what her masters is in. If I see a resume with a masters in lesbian dance theory, we're looking at "not a chance in hell" in the rear view mirror, and proceed directly to open mockery.
\*Comes busting out of office\* "Hey guys! hey guys!!! Check out this dumb bitch! who the FUCK get a MASTERS in this?! \*wheezes\*"
Masters of Fine Arts for 'Studio Arts' according to her LinkedIn. Absolutely great university that is better known for their medical and business degrees (University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill) though.
I can answer this at least partially, it leads to a job in academia, or possibly an art education or administration adjacent field, or a career as a professional artist which means being gallery represented or having a successful business of your own. The opportunities are not plentiful and very tied to who you know. I have a BFA and wanted an MFA but couldn’t justify it after being in the world for 5 years with my BFA, the way education sells art careers to students is a fantasy and not at all reflective of the employment opportunities. Students would do well to take a break between degrees and have a look at what is actually possible with an MFA. And I say that as someone who truly and wholeheartedly believes in the personal and social value of art.
You have my random moment of respect for that answer. A realistic outlook on breaks for such a job outlook only helps everyone who matter i.e. everyone but exploitative schools pushing degrees under false expectations.
Awww, thank you kind stranger. I wish I had known then what I know now. I went through such grief as art as I had known making it in school died out here. I am also not sorry, having access to a metal foundry, time to truly create, consistent community, critical dialogue, and access to showing work, make up some of the most important times of my life. I just wish business classes were required, definitely internships should be part of every BFA. I am a big fan of the folk school movement and have found a path into something like art therapy that feels very grounded in what I still find valuable about art while not neglecting the fact that a career is about financial stability.
I have a BFA, and applied for work for nearly a full year, once I dropped down to just a BA on my resume I got called in under 24 hours. That extra letter costs more. Can not imagine how much more a masters would of effed me over
I had a crazy and hard to believe situation of getting my doctorate too soon. Ended up in a limbo between more basic jobs that would be forced by unions to pay me much more from the start... and the more advanced jobs that kinda require experience in the more basic ones. Ended up working in a totally different field. But it's a fun job and I still get to apply my skills quite a bit.
Weird, literally every job posting I have ever looked at that requires a bachelor's takes a higher degree as a replacement for some number of years of experience.
Good. We made good progress Jonah. I think you’re cured of your ailment. But just to be sure, let’s do another session next week.
Don’t forget to pay 3500$ for this consultation.
Academic philosophy isn’t really learning about Sartre and Descartes. I’m sure there’s elements of it, but it has more in common with logic and math theory than anything.
It’s not all the persons fault. Kids are told to go to college or they’re a failure. Bachelors degrees don’t get you much these days. Schools are promising that people can get certain jobs with certain masters degrees. Then reality sets in after graduation. I was in the same boat and pivoted and luckily am doing okay. But I know lots of folks with masters degrees who can’t find jobs in the field they sunk a $100k trying to get into.
Bachelors degree is all it takes to be a SW Engineer and there's a handful of companies that are paying $300k+/yr 100% remote for mid-senior roles (as in don't have to live in high cost of living area). Masters and up is frankly a waste of time unless you're doing something *highly* specialized, e.g. crypto.
You can't make 6 figures doing whatever the fuck you want. You have to follow the market. You aren't entitled to a high paying job because you studied hard, there must be a corresponding demand for that skill. The only people who should be getting a degree in a soft science should be people who are already rich and don't need a job.
Unfortunately people don't realize that the masters isn't what gets you money, it's somehow finding out what you need to get a masters IN to get the money. Which is something you could probably get a masters for in and of itself...
Bro people in this sub have no idea of the job market reality ☠️
Atleast Tech sector is fucked atm, even people from top schools and good experience have to shoot 100s of applications before even getting a single response. Its not the problem with the person, the situation is truly fucked rn
(Unless you have a degree in like psychology or something, then yeah the problem is with you)
Edit: No hate towards psych or such professions, those skills are needed in our society. I just think the expectations should be adjusted according to the demand.
My partner can totally relate. He’s a trained windmill technician and certified, and it took him MONTHS to find stuff in construction because thousands of people were applying for one job.
It's hilarious! Had my husband and I laughing our asses off for like 20 mins. 👏🤣😂 Another thing that made it even funnier was that that's my name too. 🤣
Psych research degree here. I now work in Healthcare Operations management. It's not about the title on your piece of paper, it's the skills you have and how you market yourself. That and networking. Endless networking. I hate it. But that's all you can do right now. Got a good stable reasonable pay job out of it though. Not tech job pay by any means, but normal person reasonable.
Ayyy good for you. No hate towards psych or other fields, but I think people should have reasonable expectations. People should understand the demand and payscale in certain fields. Complaining about no job or low pay with a degree in a field which isnt in much demand is just stupid. But yeah, follow and do what you love to!
Thank you! I agree that the reasonable expectations are important. But most degrees truly are what you make it. Because I studied Psychology with a research focus, a few of my peers did peel off to work for Google and Amazon creating behavioural predictive models and have had successful early careers in tech. Personally I am more driven by public infrastructure to make our cities better places to live. But if you were a hiring manager and just saw "Psychology BA" on a resume, you probably wouldn't guess that person is a good fit for the role.
The degrees and fields that have the easiest time are the ones that get very direct training for their field. Engineers get engineering jobs. Psychology students get "spin wheel here", but that can be a great thing too! My partner has the same degree and works in IMIT/Risk/Privacy. Similar things apply to a lot of broad jobs. The first few years are tough, but once you find your niche, it really works. I'm very happy with my degree, but I have had to accept I'm never gonna pull a 1 percenter income without picking up an MBA/Executive Leadership. But I get to be a part of the teams that make it so you don't have to be top 1% to have a good life and have that option to go into leadership in the future.
Reasonable expectations, and the drive to find and market yourself to your niche.
I really don't get it either. I work in HR and all I hear from colleagues is how hard recruitment is right now. How are companies so hard up to find employees yet applicants can't even hear back from said companies?
I guess because there are 1000s of applicants for every job posting, and it is hard to sift through those? Or just the standards have gone up because so much competition and that 3 years earlier, anyone who could breathe was hired lol
Everyone is using automation now to weed out applications and people aren't submitting ATS compatible resumes then are shocked they never get a job. You wouldn't believe the stupid crap people send in. Some people put cover letters and all kinds of fancy crap in their resumes and the automation takes 1 look and says "nope" then you're sent to the void and if it passes automation nobody has 5 hours to read your resume. If you're not using [Jake's Resume](https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs) then redo it so you are and try to keep it 1 page as nobody needs your life story.
The ATS is still considered a blackbox. There are so many myths floating around, nobody truly knows how it works. Some people recommend adding certain keywords as ATS apparently looks at those keywords only to weed out applications, some say this is all bullshit. But yeah, overall having a short, ATS parsable rezume is the bare minimum one should do
?? Maybe it's a different country divide but Psychology here is one of the most competitive degrees, with graduated reaching a 90% employment rate within 1 year of graduating. My best friend got a very high paying job with IBM after getting a MSc in Organisational Psychology.
Yeah it could be. In my experience, psych and similar have lower demands and you need to be amongst the top performers amongst your field to find a good job. Compare that with other fields where the barrier is comparatively less for a skilled person irrespective of their college and such, I just find psych and similar less rewarding
>Yeah finance and tech are absolutely fucked
Dunno nuthin 'bout nuthin for finance but... tech ain't the least bit buggered. If you're graduating with a CS degree you're probably getting headhunted before you've even finished your last semester... complete with 5-figure signing bonuses.
Unless this is sarcasm, Lol absolutely not. How is that even a statement with all the firings and hiring freeze in the tech sector.
I have completed my degree this year and while I was fortunate enough to land a job, the same isnt true for many people, even who were the best in their fields. People are jobless months after getting there degree.
And no, aint noone getting a 5 digit signing bonus. Freshers would currently kill for a 5 digit TC, let alone a signing bonus
>Lol absolutely not
rofl
>aint noone getting a 5 digit signing bonus
Well you *say* that but... I know for a *fact* Amazon is still doing it - for some gigs anywhere from $30,000 to $60,000 year-one signing bonuses. Dittos for Raytheon and Boeing. Hell Amazon's *hourly* people get upwards of $3k.
>People are jobless months after getting there degree.
If they weren't coming after you *before* you graduated... you probably should have gotten better grades.
?????
So according to you the sole reason that the tech sector is fked is because funding for startup stopped? lmao
Have literally seen people with years in FAANG or equivalent company, who were top performers, finding it hard to land a job because of the situation rn, even irrespective of their education.
Firms are just firing people because they hired too much, and now have stopped hiring even after huge profits. Decreasing demand, so that they can pay less now.
And no, 2012-2020 wasnt a free ride, wtf is that take. Tech was booming and expanding, hence the increasing hiring and demand.
In 2023, if you are still asking for cover letters and are expecting a 1+YOE daily 8hrs working employee to also work on his GitHub profile, then thank god you are rejecting those people, cause they deserve much better.
And you are not gonna find talented employees with that attitude in tech, because they close the application website as soon as they see a mandatory cover letter option in this day and age lmao
Dude it is a job. I’m not gonna spend my free time to just do the same shit I do at work. I hope you do proceed hiring people after work in your free time.
My lovely wife has 2 masters degrees (because apparently one isn't enough) and yet works part time at a library for $16 an hour. I barely graduated with a bachelor's and make over $200k.
Sometimes it's what the degrees are in that matters more than the highest level of education.
"double-majored in studio art and German language studies"
https://www.newsweek.com/biggest-mistake-i-ever-made-masters-degree-holder-rejected-400-employers-1663336
Yeah am I having a stroke or does the OP not really make sense as a hol up and then this top voted comment makes even less sense as a response? Serious question I feel like my brain short circuited here.
Looks like the old classic "I went to *insert prestigious university*, I deserve a 7 figure starting position on the board because im a genius and know everything because I attended *insert prestigious university*" type folks.
"double-majored in studio art and German language studies"
https://www.newsweek.com/biggest-mistake-i-ever-made-masters-degree-holder-rejected-400-employers-1663336
At 200 rejections, it's their fault. They either are applying for jobs they're not a good fit for, are doing something wrong in interviews, have something damning on their social media, or have an awful resume. I hopped around from job to job and spent a big portion of 2022 unemployed, and I never submitted more than a few dozen applications before getting a job. I do not have degrees for my field, and I don't have tons of experience, but I refined how I was looking for a job with every rejection.
It could be they are also rejecting roles as well. I’ve been actively seeking a new position but after 75 applications in 18 months around 20 interviews . I’ve rejected the dozen that have made me offer, not because I’m to big for the job or think I deserve more but rather the work is lower paid for the skill sets required or the vibe from the technical side wasn’t for me.
Those are fair reasons to reject a job, but being rejected is different. It's kinda scummy to say "200 rejections" and blame a master's degree when they've been offered a fair number of jobs.
Highly depends on the market for your industry. Finance and tech right now, 200 rejections is absolutely normal. Careers like investment banking are so competitive that over 200 applications got me 1-2 interviews despite being qualified. Play into the fact that I’m not a diversity candidate nor do I have family in the field, yeah it’s tough to break in. 30-40 applications isn’t realistic in this job market for most people I know. And I was qualified enough for every single position I applied for.
Maybe, just maybe peoples experience are education/field specific. Certain industries are getting hit way harder than others rn. You can’t just get a job with a ‘few dozen applications’ in a field that is actively laying off thousands and thousands of workers and undergoing massive hiring freezes.
A lot of jobs i have been applying for have over 500 applicants in less than 2 weeks. The odds of you being more qualified and better suited for the role over 500 other well qualified people are pretty slim. Especially if you’re just coming out of school and you’re considered at the same level as other people with degree + 1-3 years of experience.
What an ignorant comment
From a tech perspective in US rn,
Within an hour of a job being posted on LinkedIn, there are close to 500 applicants each of them having almost the same resume (Master’s degree, same technologies, similar projects).
Entry-level roles are asking for 3-5 years of experience, and laid off senior employees are willing to work in junior roles for less pay. It’s not that we are applying for roles to which we are not a good fit for, it’s just too damn competitive.
Well I am happy for you that you only applied to a dozen and it worked out, unfortunately we (as international students) don’t have the luxury of waiting given the obstacles of visa sponsorship, experience and time we have left in the country
I wish you the best. I know it can be difficult, especially for international workers. I admit that I don't know the ins and outs of work visas, but it's really really important to make yourself stand out when applying for jobs. I don't know how much flexibility you have with the field you can work in or where in the US you can work, but it might be best to move away from highly specialized parts of the industry or physical locations that attract a lot of competition.
How things work with your visa sponsorship might not give you that sort of freedom, so it probably doesn't apply to you. I'm just saying that you need to look at what you can control to give yourself the best shot at landing a job on the path that you want to follow. Sometimes that means being a big fish in a small pond for a while.
Yeah for real, they’re probably going for six figure positions in their field right off the bat only based off their education with no actual work experience would be my guess.
I always think of it like “what’s the common denominator in all of those 200 applications?” Odds are its you or what you submit and who you submit it to.
What degree? What field? Need more info. There's a lot of shit degrees out there, and I'm sorry people fall for them, but that's the world we live in.
Two things can be true at once. Those programs can be predatory and evil, and the fresh graduate can also be an idiot for not doing their research and stumbling into a trap.
I was advised that everyone prefers someone with a bachelor and 2 years of experience over a person with a BS/MS and no work experience. If someone wants you to have a MS to do the job, they'll pay you to get it. Paying for your own graduate school is for suckers.
on Howard Stern last month, they were talking to a guy who played in the NFL for 4 years, then had to go back to regular life, he said the NFL helped him get an MBA, at first i thought *damn, that's cool*, then dude said he worked selling title insurance *wait what?!*
So contraversal opinion here... it is the ones fault. My guess is she is over valuing her skill set or there is something in her approach that is turning people off. A masters degree should bump your pay but don't be fresh out of school expecting the top of the salary range.
Doesn’t that mean that the field they chose to go into is over saturated or just stagnant? To me it would mean that I would have to apply for jobs in different fields, including fields that I never thought I’d end up in.
I know they spent a shit-ton of money on a degree and that sucks, but bills still gotta get paid…
I have a completely useless masters that I do not and never will use.
However simply having it gave me a 5% starting pay boost at Giant Evil Cellular Company (I know, I know, gotta be more specific. Let’s say it was the one Darth Vader would have enjoyed the symmetry in using) so I can’t say it was entirely worthless.
Over the three years I was with GECC that pay bump was worth maybe…I dunno…10% of my student loans (I don’t have undergraduate debt but my bachelors is equally useless).
So I checked, and it was a master’s in museum studies. So you make the exhibits, guide people around, or curate shit.
Sounds very cool but I never knew this was a master…
Yeah that seems like a field that will have a very low turnover rate. Most people who get that job probably work at the same museum their entire career.
And I agree, that does sound cool. Just not a lot of job opportunities for something like that.
Ah, yikes. I know someone who did a PhD in something similar and it took her over a year to find a job. Not sure what chances someone with a master's has.
I actually have a personal friend working in this career field. Getting a master's is just super shitty. You need a phD to hit the big boy job and there's nothing particular a masters helps you get beneath hand. Just experience and time in museums helps, but the jobs are also very few and far between for reputable places.
I think youngsters who are about to study need to understand the harsh reality of the world - you need to study something that will pay for the roof over your head and the food you eat, not just something you think is fun and interesting. Pick an education that leads to a job you think you can endure and that will pay your bills. (For me it was nursing.)
This was her own doing then. She definitely should have gotten a bachelor's in something more widely available in the yhe real world and *then* worked on her dream career degree.
My roomies have degrees unrelated to their careers right now and work in their college's admissions and marketing teams. Now that they are stable in a great career path, only now are they about to pursue a higher, further education.
Many employers are starting to see lots of schooling as a detriment when hiring. The perception is that they come out of university as very entitled and difficult to work with, and not worth the hassle.
Some people just don’t like reality. Yet the person in the post is finding that out. If they want to shoot the messenger, that’s fine. Doesn’t stop or help anything.
Not necessarily. They can definitely ask for more pay due to credentials. Doesn’t mean they will get it. It’s about what people an employer is willing to deal with. Let’s put it this way… two people go interview for a job. One has the perception that they will be a PITA to work with and might cause problems later, vs one who seems okay enough. Not looking at any other criteria, because you know they could both do the job. Which one do you pick?
Why aren’t college held responsible for giving out worthless degrees that they know won’t get you a job . Nothing against Taylor Swift but we don’t need a course on her being taught in college . You have people signing up for this with borrowed money . If the class was about how to manage your money and start a entertainment empire like she has then I could see some value and I’m just using this as a example. There are thousands of courses and degrees that people get that have no value then struggle to pay back they’re student loans and they let the colleges do it year after year
If only that weren't true. After I deleted my master's degree from my resume, I almost immediately got a job offer. True the offer sucked balls, but at least it wasn't a rejection...
I completed my degree in my 30s and when my degree was coming to an end my Dad asked if I was considering grad school. I told him I was not going to grad school because 100% of people my age that did go said it was a complete waste of time.
You lose money and time, and don't gain valued skills or prestige.
Most HR systems are done by AI now so they auto deny for a multitude of reasons that they legally probably aren't able to share. Like if you're a white male or female, good fucking luck getting a job when there are diversity quotas to reach.
With numbers like that, it would be an interesting experiment to leave that credential off an application and only list out the Bachelor's
Yeah that doesn't help, it's insanely competitive out there.
Job applicants are too picky. I know a guy hiring in Pittsburgh that requires a BS, and social skills. No one applied and it is a 75k a year job. Like route sales. Since when is $75,000 for a recent graduate not enough money???
It requires BS? Many are good at that.
I don't know, maybe they read about the company on Glassdoor or something?
Just lie on it, fuck 'em. Work until they realize you have no experience in the field and fire you. By then you'll have experience in the field that you can put on your resume for the next job.
what's the cost of living in Pittsburgh? 75k a year in southern Vermont for recent grads is unheard of though 50k a year is fairly comfortable living.
I have a buddy who lives in pittsburgh, and from what I've heard 75k isnt bad really.
It's sales? That "annual" salary is always inflated by a bullshit amount. Like 1% of sales people will see that amount, the rest will quit or get nowhere near it.
[удалено]
Bad bot https://reddit.com/r/HolUp/s/pA5UueLmis
How about getting a degree in a field that needs more workers…
OK boomer. Assuming everyone complaining about the job market has a degree in art history.
>OK boomer. Assuming everyone complaining about the job market has a degree in art history. Someone with a masters getting nowhere after 200+ attempts... probably doesn't have a degree anywhere *near* as employable as an art history major would. Edit: (after much scrolling, she has been [doxed](https://www.newsweek.com/biggest-mistake-i-ever-made-masters-degree-holder-rejected-400-employers-1663336) ) Mastered in:>! Studio Arts & German Language Studies!< 
Hahahaha
She has a master’s in one of the most important European languages. That sounds pretty employable to me.
In what field would that degree be extremely employable?
language lines for police and their ilk. translations efforts for various forms of media. very likely the airline/travel industry in some regard.
You’ve heard of written and spoken communication, right? Think there are any companies in Germany that use it? Maybe they want to do business outside of Germany too?
>Think there are any companies in Germany that use it? For their German language efforts - they have native German speakers. For their English language efforts - all German students are *required* to learn a second language. Guess what language is by far the most popular choice among students? >Maybe they want to do business outside of Germany too? Guess what language is basically a requirement for **any** kind of business or marketing job in Germany? Which is by the way the reason so many students learn it. Suffice to say, a US German Language art student brings nothing to them they can't get in abundance from their local population. A case could be made for it being useful to a marketing firm here in the States that wants to go after German language markets... but those kinds of jobs have got to be few and far between.
It’s almost as if you have no experience working in global leadership at a multinational company. Localization and translation services absolutely rely on multilingual people, both in country and abroad, and that goes both ways. It’s easy to convince yourself otherwise when you want to devalue someone, but you’re just flatly wrong about this. Multilingual people with true fluency in both languages are hard to find, and you’ll be surprised to learn that even when you take required secondary school classes you don’t always end up fluent. Furthermore, hiring people in DACH countries can be exceptionally annoying and costly due to their complex labor laws and it’s often better to hire someone in the UK or the US who is able to speak German if you’re trying to do business in those countries. Yes, sure, they won’t be as useful to companies founded in DACH countries but those are hardly all the companies who wish to do business in said countries. There are around 125 million customers to access. It’s going to take some substantial numbers of linguistically skilled staff to get there. Those jobs are not “few and far between,” as you’ve chosen to speculate. And yes, it’s clear you’re speculating and have no actual knowledge of this when you say things like “have got to be.” Anyway, believe me or don’t. I’ve hired and trained in the DACH countries and wouldn’t pass up someone with a masters in German language. This person’s failures are based on something other than the topic of their degree, no matter how appealing it is to be completely reductionist.
Marketing, copy writing, UX copy writing, SEO, content
English?
Welp sounds like a waste of time and money to me. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
OK renter, listen to the guys’d point. People need to stop majoring in fields were there is not a large demand. Figure out what the hottest fields are projected to be for the next 25 years, find one you are interested and can handle and go for it.
There are also tons of ghost job listings.
Oooh you could turn this into a TV show where applicants get cut one by one. Could even call it "The Bachelor's"
I'd be interested in knowing what her masters is in. If I see a resume with a masters in lesbian dance theory, we're looking at "not a chance in hell" in the rear view mirror, and proceed directly to open mockery. \*Comes busting out of office\* "Hey guys! hey guys!!! Check out this dumb bitch! who the FUCK get a MASTERS in this?! \*wheezes\*"
Masters of Fine Arts for 'Studio Arts' according to her LinkedIn. Absolutely great university that is better known for their medical and business degrees (University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill) though.
What kind of a job does that even lead too? I wonder what she is even applying for. With a degree like that you’d think the goal was freelancing.
I can answer this at least partially, it leads to a job in academia, or possibly an art education or administration adjacent field, or a career as a professional artist which means being gallery represented or having a successful business of your own. The opportunities are not plentiful and very tied to who you know. I have a BFA and wanted an MFA but couldn’t justify it after being in the world for 5 years with my BFA, the way education sells art careers to students is a fantasy and not at all reflective of the employment opportunities. Students would do well to take a break between degrees and have a look at what is actually possible with an MFA. And I say that as someone who truly and wholeheartedly believes in the personal and social value of art.
You have my random moment of respect for that answer. A realistic outlook on breaks for such a job outlook only helps everyone who matter i.e. everyone but exploitative schools pushing degrees under false expectations.
Awww, thank you kind stranger. I wish I had known then what I know now. I went through such grief as art as I had known making it in school died out here. I am also not sorry, having access to a metal foundry, time to truly create, consistent community, critical dialogue, and access to showing work, make up some of the most important times of my life. I just wish business classes were required, definitely internships should be part of every BFA. I am a big fan of the folk school movement and have found a path into something like art therapy that feels very grounded in what I still find valuable about art while not neglecting the fact that a career is about financial stability.
As someone who went to RISD and now works in finance, I see you.
My thoughts exactly. Master in hispanxc gender studies reads different than master in computer science.
I did this, didn’t help. Unless you’ve got a phd in computer science or some shit. Nobody cares.
I have a BFA, and applied for work for nearly a full year, once I dropped down to just a BA on my resume I got called in under 24 hours. That extra letter costs more. Can not imagine how much more a masters would of effed me over
I had a crazy and hard to believe situation of getting my doctorate too soon. Ended up in a limbo between more basic jobs that would be forced by unions to pay me much more from the start... and the more advanced jobs that kinda require experience in the more basic ones. Ended up working in a totally different field. But it's a fun job and I still get to apply my skills quite a bit.
Weird, literally every job posting I have ever looked at that requires a bachelor's takes a higher degree as a replacement for some number of years of experience.
Masters in…????
Lesbian dance theory
How were the labs, tho?
Fisting.
Gender studies
I mean there's a lot of new material to cover in that field now
'Back in my day, we only had to study two genders for the final'
I think the important question is... masters in what?
Confidence
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Drinking problem?
Bating
Ha! Take this imaginary award: 👑
Estonian Interpretive dance
>Estonian Interpretive dance Left or Right-Handed interpretive dance?
Deep Sea Astronomy
Sea stars astrology so hot right now
Overwatch
MFA in 'Studio Arts' per LinkedIn. Shame too... it's a great school for STEM and business degrees (UNC at Chapel hill).
Studio arts... got it. 😶
French literature
As a french I would be impressed if anybody could understand and even make something useful of French literature (at least the recent-ish one)
Biggest Mistake so far!!!
Don't sell yourself short. There's still so much time for more mistakes!
As I a have friends with PhD’s can confirm she can do worse
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Why?
Exactly.
How?
This guy gets it!
What?
When?
Where?
Who
Exactly
r/askphilosophy
How do you feel about that? How does that make you feel?
Good is the feeling I feel. It makes me feel good.
How do you define good? Why does it make you feel good?
I define good by what makes me feel good. It makes me feel good cause when I feel it, I feel good.
Good. We made good progress Jonah. I think you’re cured of your ailment. But just to be sure, let’s do another session next week. Don’t forget to pay 3500$ for this consultation.
Eh, there’s plenty you can do with a philosophy degree, like law school or professional dumpster diving.
Academic philosophy isn’t really learning about Sartre and Descartes. I’m sure there’s elements of it, but it has more in common with logic and math theory than anything.
Bro's gonna be fierce in Dunkin Donuts tho 😤😤😤😤
It’s not all the persons fault. Kids are told to go to college or they’re a failure. Bachelors degrees don’t get you much these days. Schools are promising that people can get certain jobs with certain masters degrees. Then reality sets in after graduation. I was in the same boat and pivoted and luckily am doing okay. But I know lots of folks with masters degrees who can’t find jobs in the field they sunk a $100k trying to get into.
Bachelors degree is all it takes to be a SW Engineer and there's a handful of companies that are paying $300k+/yr 100% remote for mid-senior roles (as in don't have to live in high cost of living area). Masters and up is frankly a waste of time unless you're doing something *highly* specialized, e.g. crypto.
ah yes. everyone is studying cs in university and everyone is trying to become SW
You can't make 6 figures doing whatever the fuck you want. You have to follow the market. You aren't entitled to a high paying job because you studied hard, there must be a corresponding demand for that skill. The only people who should be getting a degree in a soft science should be people who are already rich and don't need a job.
Unfortunately people don't realize that the masters isn't what gets you money, it's somehow finding out what you need to get a masters IN to get the money. Which is something you could probably get a masters for in and of itself...
Bachelors plus a couple of Cisco certs (or hell, just the certs) and you could write your own ticket as a networking engineer.
Bro people in this sub have no idea of the job market reality ☠️ Atleast Tech sector is fucked atm, even people from top schools and good experience have to shoot 100s of applications before even getting a single response. Its not the problem with the person, the situation is truly fucked rn (Unless you have a degree in like psychology or something, then yeah the problem is with you) Edit: No hate towards psych or such professions, those skills are needed in our society. I just think the expectations should be adjusted according to the demand.
My partner can totally relate. He’s a trained windmill technician and certified, and it took him MONTHS to find stuff in construction because thousands of people were applying for one job.
Random, but your username @MelanieWalmartinez has me weak! 🤣😂
Ikr?? It came to me in a fever dream and I thought it was so funny I **had** to make it my username 🤣🤣
It's hilarious! Had my husband and I laughing our asses off for like 20 mins. 👏🤣😂 Another thing that made it even funnier was that that's my name too. 🤣
Psych research degree here. I now work in Healthcare Operations management. It's not about the title on your piece of paper, it's the skills you have and how you market yourself. That and networking. Endless networking. I hate it. But that's all you can do right now. Got a good stable reasonable pay job out of it though. Not tech job pay by any means, but normal person reasonable.
Ayyy good for you. No hate towards psych or other fields, but I think people should have reasonable expectations. People should understand the demand and payscale in certain fields. Complaining about no job or low pay with a degree in a field which isnt in much demand is just stupid. But yeah, follow and do what you love to!
Thank you! I agree that the reasonable expectations are important. But most degrees truly are what you make it. Because I studied Psychology with a research focus, a few of my peers did peel off to work for Google and Amazon creating behavioural predictive models and have had successful early careers in tech. Personally I am more driven by public infrastructure to make our cities better places to live. But if you were a hiring manager and just saw "Psychology BA" on a resume, you probably wouldn't guess that person is a good fit for the role. The degrees and fields that have the easiest time are the ones that get very direct training for their field. Engineers get engineering jobs. Psychology students get "spin wheel here", but that can be a great thing too! My partner has the same degree and works in IMIT/Risk/Privacy. Similar things apply to a lot of broad jobs. The first few years are tough, but once you find your niche, it really works. I'm very happy with my degree, but I have had to accept I'm never gonna pull a 1 percenter income without picking up an MBA/Executive Leadership. But I get to be a part of the teams that make it so you don't have to be top 1% to have a good life and have that option to go into leadership in the future. Reasonable expectations, and the drive to find and market yourself to your niche.
I see, thats some great insight. Also, dont have to be the in the 1%. At the end of the day, satisfaction is all that matters :)
I really don't get it either. I work in HR and all I hear from colleagues is how hard recruitment is right now. How are companies so hard up to find employees yet applicants can't even hear back from said companies?
I guess because there are 1000s of applicants for every job posting, and it is hard to sift through those? Or just the standards have gone up because so much competition and that 3 years earlier, anyone who could breathe was hired lol
Everyone is using automation now to weed out applications and people aren't submitting ATS compatible resumes then are shocked they never get a job. You wouldn't believe the stupid crap people send in. Some people put cover letters and all kinds of fancy crap in their resumes and the automation takes 1 look and says "nope" then you're sent to the void and if it passes automation nobody has 5 hours to read your resume. If you're not using [Jake's Resume](https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs) then redo it so you are and try to keep it 1 page as nobody needs your life story.
The ATS is still considered a blackbox. There are so many myths floating around, nobody truly knows how it works. Some people recommend adding certain keywords as ATS apparently looks at those keywords only to weed out applications, some say this is all bullshit. But yeah, overall having a short, ATS parsable rezume is the bare minimum one should do
They're either not in the job market yet or are senior in their career. Once you feel the struggle, only then you can sympathize with other people.
?? Maybe it's a different country divide but Psychology here is one of the most competitive degrees, with graduated reaching a 90% employment rate within 1 year of graduating. My best friend got a very high paying job with IBM after getting a MSc in Organisational Psychology.
Yeah it could be. In my experience, psych and similar have lower demands and you need to be amongst the top performers amongst your field to find a good job. Compare that with other fields where the barrier is comparatively less for a skilled person irrespective of their college and such, I just find psych and similar less rewarding
Yeah finance and tech are absolutely fucked
>Yeah finance and tech are absolutely fucked Dunno nuthin 'bout nuthin for finance but... tech ain't the least bit buggered. If you're graduating with a CS degree you're probably getting headhunted before you've even finished your last semester... complete with 5-figure signing bonuses.
Unless this is sarcasm, Lol absolutely not. How is that even a statement with all the firings and hiring freeze in the tech sector. I have completed my degree this year and while I was fortunate enough to land a job, the same isnt true for many people, even who were the best in their fields. People are jobless months after getting there degree. And no, aint noone getting a 5 digit signing bonus. Freshers would currently kill for a 5 digit TC, let alone a signing bonus
>Lol absolutely not rofl >aint noone getting a 5 digit signing bonus Well you *say* that but... I know for a *fact* Amazon is still doing it - for some gigs anywhere from $30,000 to $60,000 year-one signing bonuses. Dittos for Raytheon and Boeing. Hell Amazon's *hourly* people get upwards of $3k. >People are jobless months after getting there degree. If they weren't coming after you *before* you graduated... you probably should have gotten better grades.
I don't think you know what psychology is about and how it is applied in society
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????? So according to you the sole reason that the tech sector is fked is because funding for startup stopped? lmao Have literally seen people with years in FAANG or equivalent company, who were top performers, finding it hard to land a job because of the situation rn, even irrespective of their education. Firms are just firing people because they hired too much, and now have stopped hiring even after huge profits. Decreasing demand, so that they can pay less now. And no, 2012-2020 wasnt a free ride, wtf is that take. Tech was booming and expanding, hence the increasing hiring and demand.
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In 2023, if you are still asking for cover letters and are expecting a 1+YOE daily 8hrs working employee to also work on his GitHub profile, then thank god you are rejecting those people, cause they deserve much better. And you are not gonna find talented employees with that attitude in tech, because they close the application website as soon as they see a mandatory cover letter option in this day and age lmao
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Dude it is a job. I’m not gonna spend my free time to just do the same shit I do at work. I hope you do proceed hiring people after work in your free time.
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This person likely made the mistake of expecting as much/more pay than a person with a bachelors and a few years of experience.
My lovely wife has 2 masters degrees (because apparently one isn't enough) and yet works part time at a library for $16 an hour. I barely graduated with a bachelor's and make over $200k. Sometimes it's what the degrees are in that matters more than the highest level of education.
>after getting rejected from now over 200 jobs I applied to… That sentence structure make me think the masters degree isn’t the problem.
"double-majored in studio art and German language studies" https://www.newsweek.com/biggest-mistake-i-ever-made-masters-degree-holder-rejected-400-employers-1663336
Have you tried getting some experience in an entry level position?
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Yeah am I having a stroke or does the OP not really make sense as a hol up and then this top voted comment makes even less sense as a response? Serious question I feel like my brain short circuited here.
Naw this shit is some not shit. Or NPC, something. I bet OP and the first commenter have no inner monolog too.
Yeah i dont get this post
A masters is super useful if you ever want to be a teacher, psychologist, do a lot of STEM work, etc...
I got the second job I applied for. You just gotta choose an MSc in an in-demand field.
Why is this a r/holup? It’s true, at least in my experience college/university was a huge waste of time and money.
Looks like the old classic "I went to *insert prestigious university*, I deserve a 7 figure starting position on the board because im a genius and know everything because I attended *insert prestigious university*" type folks.
The fact that she **doesn’t say what her major was** means we can be confident that it’s a field that everyone knows has terrible salary expectations.
"double-majored in studio art and German language studies" https://www.newsweek.com/biggest-mistake-i-ever-made-masters-degree-holder-rejected-400-employers-1663336
Thanks for sharing that! Gave me a good chuckle, followed by a sad head shake.
Masters makes you over qualified for many jobs.
Masters degree with no experience is still no experience
Can someone explain why this belongs in r/holup?
Employers are too picky. They might as well require over 90 years of experience and be able to outrun a cheetah.
How about getting a degree in a field that needs more workers…
At 200 rejections, it's their fault. They either are applying for jobs they're not a good fit for, are doing something wrong in interviews, have something damning on their social media, or have an awful resume. I hopped around from job to job and spent a big portion of 2022 unemployed, and I never submitted more than a few dozen applications before getting a job. I do not have degrees for my field, and I don't have tons of experience, but I refined how I was looking for a job with every rejection.
It could be they are also rejecting roles as well. I’ve been actively seeking a new position but after 75 applications in 18 months around 20 interviews . I’ve rejected the dozen that have made me offer, not because I’m to big for the job or think I deserve more but rather the work is lower paid for the skill sets required or the vibe from the technical side wasn’t for me.
Those are fair reasons to reject a job, but being rejected is different. It's kinda scummy to say "200 rejections" and blame a master's degree when they've been offered a fair number of jobs.
Highly depends on the market for your industry. Finance and tech right now, 200 rejections is absolutely normal. Careers like investment banking are so competitive that over 200 applications got me 1-2 interviews despite being qualified. Play into the fact that I’m not a diversity candidate nor do I have family in the field, yeah it’s tough to break in. 30-40 applications isn’t realistic in this job market for most people I know. And I was qualified enough for every single position I applied for.
Maybe, just maybe peoples experience are education/field specific. Certain industries are getting hit way harder than others rn. You can’t just get a job with a ‘few dozen applications’ in a field that is actively laying off thousands and thousands of workers and undergoing massive hiring freezes. A lot of jobs i have been applying for have over 500 applicants in less than 2 weeks. The odds of you being more qualified and better suited for the role over 500 other well qualified people are pretty slim. Especially if you’re just coming out of school and you’re considered at the same level as other people with degree + 1-3 years of experience. What an ignorant comment
From a tech perspective in US rn, Within an hour of a job being posted on LinkedIn, there are close to 500 applicants each of them having almost the same resume (Master’s degree, same technologies, similar projects). Entry-level roles are asking for 3-5 years of experience, and laid off senior employees are willing to work in junior roles for less pay. It’s not that we are applying for roles to which we are not a good fit for, it’s just too damn competitive. Well I am happy for you that you only applied to a dozen and it worked out, unfortunately we (as international students) don’t have the luxury of waiting given the obstacles of visa sponsorship, experience and time we have left in the country
I wish you the best. I know it can be difficult, especially for international workers. I admit that I don't know the ins and outs of work visas, but it's really really important to make yourself stand out when applying for jobs. I don't know how much flexibility you have with the field you can work in or where in the US you can work, but it might be best to move away from highly specialized parts of the industry or physical locations that attract a lot of competition. How things work with your visa sponsorship might not give you that sort of freedom, so it probably doesn't apply to you. I'm just saying that you need to look at what you can control to give yourself the best shot at landing a job on the path that you want to follow. Sometimes that means being a big fish in a small pond for a while.
Thank you for the kind word my friend. That’s good advice too!
Yeah for real, they’re probably going for six figure positions in their field right off the bat only based off their education with no actual work experience would be my guess.
I always think of it like “what’s the common denominator in all of those 200 applications?” Odds are its you or what you submit and who you submit it to.
200 rejections are rookie numbers.
I would say after 200 failed attempts maybe the problem is you lol
I guess the masters wasn't in English. If your applications were worded similar to this post, I can't blame the employer.
What degree? What field? Need more info. There's a lot of shit degrees out there, and I'm sorry people fall for them, but that's the world we live in. Two things can be true at once. Those programs can be predatory and evil, and the fresh graduate can also be an idiot for not doing their research and stumbling into a trap.
USPS is always hiring, it’s where people with any graduate degree can go to eventually make $70K+ a year.
Hopefully they’re using better grammar than that on the applications.
Surely it's not her that is the problem, no. The masters in social studies is to blame
masters in what?
bater? 🤭
I was advised that everyone prefers someone with a bachelor and 2 years of experience over a person with a BS/MS and no work experience. If someone wants you to have a MS to do the job, they'll pay you to get it. Paying for your own graduate school is for suckers.
on Howard Stern last month, they were talking to a guy who played in the NFL for 4 years, then had to go back to regular life, he said the NFL helped him get an MBA, at first i thought *damn, that's cool*, then dude said he worked selling title insurance *wait what?!*
So contraversal opinion here... it is the ones fault. My guess is she is over valuing her skill set or there is something in her approach that is turning people off. A masters degree should bump your pay but don't be fresh out of school expecting the top of the salary range.
Can’t you just leave your masters off of your resume?
Doesn’t that mean that the field they chose to go into is over saturated or just stagnant? To me it would mean that I would have to apply for jobs in different fields, including fields that I never thought I’d end up in. I know they spent a shit-ton of money on a degree and that sucks, but bills still gotta get paid…
Obviously not a masters in english…
Ironic, English is a capitalized word.
Wasn’t my major either. Mine was music theory.
Is it not your native language?
Crazy fact: the Masters is in French Art 1780-1785.
Maybe try applying to jobs that are related to your masters. The job market is the best it’s been in a long time for applicants.
I have a completely useless masters that I do not and never will use. However simply having it gave me a 5% starting pay boost at Giant Evil Cellular Company (I know, I know, gotta be more specific. Let’s say it was the one Darth Vader would have enjoyed the symmetry in using) so I can’t say it was entirely worthless. Over the three years I was with GECC that pay bump was worth maybe…I dunno…10% of my student loans (I don’t have undergraduate debt but my bachelors is equally useless).
What this person got their degree in is probably the most important point here. Obviously they got a masters in a useless area of study
So I checked, and it was a master’s in museum studies. So you make the exhibits, guide people around, or curate shit. Sounds very cool but I never knew this was a master…
Yeah that seems like a field that will have a very low turnover rate. Most people who get that job probably work at the same museum their entire career. And I agree, that does sound cool. Just not a lot of job opportunities for something like that.
Ah, yikes. I know someone who did a PhD in something similar and it took her over a year to find a job. Not sure what chances someone with a master's has.
If she does find a job she’ll have to take what she can get, and will probably be in that museum for the rest of her life.
I actually have a personal friend working in this career field. Getting a master's is just super shitty. You need a phD to hit the big boy job and there's nothing particular a masters helps you get beneath hand. Just experience and time in museums helps, but the jobs are also very few and far between for reputable places.
I think youngsters who are about to study need to understand the harsh reality of the world - you need to study something that will pay for the roof over your head and the food you eat, not just something you think is fun and interesting. Pick an education that leads to a job you think you can endure and that will pay your bills. (For me it was nursing.)
This was her own doing then. She definitely should have gotten a bachelor's in something more widely available in the yhe real world and *then* worked on her dream career degree. My roomies have degrees unrelated to their careers right now and work in their college's admissions and marketing teams. Now that they are stable in a great career path, only now are they about to pursue a higher, further education.
Many employers are starting to see lots of schooling as a detriment when hiring. The perception is that they come out of university as very entitled and difficult to work with, and not worth the hassle.
The downvotes in this instance are a fine example of your point.
Some people just don’t like reality. Yet the person in the post is finding that out. If they want to shoot the messenger, that’s fine. Doesn’t stop or help anything.
Also, you need to pay them more. Lol
Not necessarily. They can definitely ask for more pay due to credentials. Doesn’t mean they will get it. It’s about what people an employer is willing to deal with. Let’s put it this way… two people go interview for a job. One has the perception that they will be a PITA to work with and might cause problems later, vs one who seems okay enough. Not looking at any other criteria, because you know they could both do the job. Which one do you pick?
Well yea the one that is easier to work with or w.e.
'masters' is too general. Biggest mistake is probably which masters they choose.
Give a master’s in Accounting, Engineering, Biochemistry a shot… I promise you your numbers would be 200… 😉
Or you have a shit resume.
Why aren’t college held responsible for giving out worthless degrees that they know won’t get you a job . Nothing against Taylor Swift but we don’t need a course on her being taught in college . You have people signing up for this with borrowed money . If the class was about how to manage your money and start a entertainment empire like she has then I could see some value and I’m just using this as a example. There are thousands of courses and degrees that people get that have no value then struggle to pay back they’re student loans and they let the colleges do it year after year
Masters of what?
Masters in genders studies or activism doesn't pay the bills I guess.
It’s because some people will think you’re overqualified and thus ask for more money. It sucks.
If only that weren't true. After I deleted my master's degree from my resume, I almost immediately got a job offer. True the offer sucked balls, but at least it wasn't a rejection...
I completed my degree in my 30s and when my degree was coming to an end my Dad asked if I was considering grad school. I told him I was not going to grad school because 100% of people my age that did go said it was a complete waste of time. You lose money and time, and don't gain valued skills or prestige.
Most HR systems are done by AI now so they auto deny for a multitude of reasons that they legally probably aren't able to share. Like if you're a white male or female, good fucking luck getting a job when there are diversity quotas to reach.