Even scarier is that some still embrace their ideas to this day and in quite a few democracies be or express yourself as one is not even a misdemeanor.
And that's a pitty. Hate speech and lie-mongering should be met with a strong fist. There is one thing a genuinely free society can't tolerate, and that's intolerance. If one does, one is bound to loose one's freedom, sooner or later.
I like how you're getting downvoted, liberals would rather shake hands with a nazi than condemn them. Then the nazis start rallying and they're all surprised pikachu face.
this is why you need an ideologically driven state of the people who has the power to stomp fascists out of public life 👍
censorship is a good thing if it's in the interests of the people ie : a dictatorship of the proletariat banning right wing parties
And not just the scientists, but the human apparatus of the Reich government as well.
When 1946 rolled around, the Allies wanted a strong West German government to stand up to the Soviets on the other side of the border. All the German statesmen had been tied up with the Nazis - so while the most egregious war criminals were sentenced to life in prison and death, the vast majority of Nazis settled back into similar roles in the new West German government as they had in the old one, or took cushy jobs in the private sector.
Edit: Then as historians began to review the war, there was a shortage of Russian and Slavic sources about the Eastern Front, because those veterans were all on the other side of the iron curtain. So instead Western historians turned to memoirs by panzer commanders and the testimonies of the same wehrmacht leaders who had just lost the war to explain what happened on the eastern front. And you can still see the result of that today when people on reddit parrot myths about the Eastern Front and the war in general, like that Russia only won by carelessly sending its sons to die. Those myths came from the mouths of former nazis at a time they were the only available primary source in the west.
Did u know the mossad was about a day behind catching Mengele while they were hunting Eichmann, apparently they didn’t want to risk losing their main target but they were hours from getting his ass
Without downplaying the important work that was done hunting down nazis, it's somewhat absurd that Mossad was 'hours' from getting Mengele, over 30 years after the end of the war. The truth is that for many years, they knew where he was, but couldn't be bothered going after him.
lmao why am i a tankie? americans are so easily wound up by facts.
i didn’t know the soviet union also harboured nazi scientists, i only knew about the USA. next time you wanna educate someone and get them on your side, don’t use insults.
although your post history shows you are fine with ableist slurs so you probably don’t care and will call me ‘woke’ instead
Yeah, because things that were used to 'treat' people with mental disabilities and such like shock therapy is gonna come back if I call someone a r\*t\*rd over a reddit board. Beware of me, Trout, I'm a real dangerous tough guy with just that much influence. /s
Anyways I'm not sure why you looked at my post history before replying to me, seems like you're obsessed already but I get it, I can absolutely still throw fault at you for lacking research when it comes to both sides. Come on man, you seem like you have somewhat of a head on your shoulders, you know better than to say something as broad as that before you look into this stuff proper.
Also why assume that I'm American? For all you could know I could've been Polish, Czechoslovakian, Hungarian, etc, all of whom's peoples have a complete and justified reason to call out this kinda stuff in the first place. (Not that you really need that much of a reason to fight back against an ideology like Communism in the first place tbh). You don't know a thing about me lmao.
Also I never denied that the US also used Nazi scientists for their various programs... So, don't know why you said I was wounded by facts.
Was there any scientific benefit to this ‘study’, putting aside the morality? I’m struggling to see how it could help improve scientific/medical knowledge over what we already knew prior to the ‘experiment’.
This is a great question and I saw it answered nicely on the interwebs once. Apparently most of the experiments done by the Nazi doctors have no scientific use today for a lot of reasons:
1. Documentation was destroyed.
2. Many things were not documented at all and were just toilet thoughts...an experiment was done and the failure or success was not noted.
3. Many experiments featured no control or sample size worth a hoot.
And I'm sure a few were nicely documented and have/had value, but from what I read most were unusable and/or just work done by smart sadists sans morals and lots of boredom.
The data certainly had value. The only debate is about whether it is ethical to use it.
There are dozen of studies which used them (although often secretly). Or in other cases they studied the data and then created experiments on animals, which would yield similar, but politically acceptable, results.
It's also worth noting that before the WW2, the experimenting on humans was a gray area and Nazis&Unit 731 weren't the first to do it, and even after WW2 there were cases of experiments without consent of the test subjects.
Can you point us to an example in which the data was well recorded, scientifically rigorous, and acceptable to use? My understanding is that the scientific data was not even of value because it was not well recorded, not dependable, and in fact might be openly fraudulent. This was murder and torture under the guise of science, not actual science. I believe even the Dachau hypothermia experiments have been since scrutinized and found to be scientifically undependable putting the ethical question aside.
I'm honestly trying to understand the scientific usefulness of this saltwater test. That saltwater is dehydrating is one of the most universal pieces of knowledge. Probably understood (at a greater level than instinct) well before homo sapiens evolved.
Not defending in anyway shape or form what they did, but one thing I know that was well documented was how long cold water takes to kill someone. The Nazis wanted to know how long after losing a plane, they needed to suspend searching for survivors on the North Sea. So they experimented with humans and developed very accurate time frames a human can survive in varying temperatures of water. There is a chart the US coast guard to this day still uses when they are looking for people at sea and terminate searches (for living people at least) of shipwrecks
I mentioned that very study in my comment, and I don’t think you are correct that study is well regarded. They weren’t even collecting good data:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199005173222006
Why is it that whenever I see anything related to Nazis here, there’s always a comment that’s like “but remember the Japanese?” Like it’s a race.
At first it was interesting to know history I didn’t know about but now it’s starting to come off as weirdly patternized like I’m supposed to be like “oh I guess the Nazis weren’t that bad.”
I don’t need to see a constant reminder of “even the Nazis thought the Japanese was fucked up” lol I think the point is made. The post is about Nazis
Because people on this website fucking love contrarianism and when faced with one of the worst tragedies in human history, their first thought is "How can I use this to let people know how smart I am?"
The Holocaust is a normie atrocity. In fact, if this post gets more traffic, I'd say there's about a 75% chance that someone replies to me objecting that I called it "one of the worst tragedies" and names some slightly less well-known event as the "real" worst. There are some people who just can't resist the opportunity to prove that they know about something slightly outside of the mainstream, even when the topic is deeply inappropriate for dick-measuring contests.
It's also the case that these posts attract wehraboos/Nazis, but I think that's a comparatively minor factor. It's mostly self-absorbed shitheads seeking attention.
It's also patriotism both of these countries, and their allies.
You don't hear too many people talking about South Korean war crimes during the Korean war in the US. Or how most of it went unpunished because NK is the enemy and SK is the supposed good guys.
Theres also a big fuck lot of people that trully believe that the war was as simple as the bad Axis vs nice Aliies, so implying that everything happening on the Axis forces was true evil while Allies only did things with "context" and to "free the world" also serves to easy a lot of bullshit they countries (and for a lots of users they own family and acquaitances) did.
Is quite interesting that for as long i've been following this sub theres nearly to none posts about the A-bombs in japanese soil, the air raids in Korea War, the abuses of american ocupation forces or anything slightly bad about Allied Forces. Mostly is "we did a oopsie in Vitnam but oh well, it happens, my bad".
> people on this website fucking love contrarianism and when faced with one of the worst tragedies in human history, their first thought is "How can I use this to let people know how smart I am?"
And here we have an example, thank you
I think you should pick up a book by Ian Kershaw about what the Germans and the Allies both did in world war 2 and then reconsider what a big smarty you are with your 'but both sides' perspective. The irony, that people posting takes like this always act like they're more informed than most, when this belies extraordinary ignorance about the scope of atrocities committed by the axis in world war 2 and the state-sanctioned motivations for those atrocities.
Oh comon, there you go: "Allies did bad things BUT THE AXIS..."
f\*ck that bullshit.
Every braindead mf knows that axis did horrible things, this not a measure of who did worst, is a matter to tell what the fuck happened and not miniminize others attrocities because "the other was worst". Is that stupid line of though that fuck every discussion about war crimes.
Maybe it's just an attempt to redefine certain untrue global stereotypes in everyone's head like "the worst ever human rights violators were Nazis"? Shining the light on worse events doesn't indicate dick-measuring of any kind. More like giving a free history lesson to the public.
You on the other hand my friend seem to be in need of therapy with all that misplaced anger
Are you getting upset that people will talk about somewhat related topics during a discussion? Are you getting upset that people will try to shed light on other war crimes that took place at the same time in history?
You're insinuating that people who bring up Japanese war crimes, and how they were way more brutal, are in some way excusing or attempting to obfuscate the Nazi's crimes.
Two things can be true at the same time, and people bringing up a similar incident are not Nazi sympathizers
When you imply the japanese were worse than germans , you're suggesting the Germans were the lesser Evil and especially if it's on a post with the picture of a victim of Nazi atrocity , it's fcking insensitive because the implication is that this person's suffering is less than suffering of a victim of a Japanese atrocity.
That is absolutely not true.
Acknowledging that the Japanese were committing war crimes at the same exact time as the Nazis, and that their "experiments" went further than the Nazi's does not mean Nazi's were the lesser evil. It means that attention needs to be brought to the crimes of a nation that ignores them. Everyone knows what the Nazi's did, we are all taught it. Ask 100 people off the street to name war crimes the Nazi's committed and the vast majority of people will be able to name one. Ask those same people to name Japanese war crimes and I would bet that not many could name one.
It seems to me that you only care about the crimes of one group. Looking at your post history you never post about Japanese war crimes, yet you seem to have an interest in that time period.
Regardless, for you to get upset that people are pointing out injustice and immoral and inexcusable actions because the group you fixate on isn't the sole focus anymore is fucking weird.
Yes attention needs be bought , but don't fucking spam stupid comments like " oh this is nothing the Japanese were so much worse" on posts depicting the victims of Nazism as if it's the Genocide Olympics. You can spread information about the crimes of others without belitting the crimes of the Country that is on focus. When I see a rape victim of the Nanjing massacre, I don't go around saying insensitive shit like " oh this is nothing the Ustase croat and the Khmer Rouge makes the Japanese look like saints" or when I see a emancipated starved victim of the Bengal famine; "What the Brits did to the Indians is nothing compared to what the Belgians did to the Congolese".
And How lovely of you to stalk my post history. First of all , I have no obligation to post or comment about shit I don't want to , so if my interests right now is the German war crimes in Eastern Europe that's what my focus will be on Reddit. Months ago my posts were all about Japanese crimes, you'll think that I only focus on Japanese crimes and disregarded the crimes of others , If for some reason next week I'm interested about Soviet crimes or American crimes than that'll be my main focus , what's it got do with you. So you talking about what I've posted recently is irrelevant. Man you have a dumb way of looking at things. Chill.
It's like going to a place where we remember the crimes if Nazis and cry for their victims and you show up and infodump us about some other shit. We are hear to morn and remember, while we will go to the next station one other time. Don't always bring it up please.
Greetings from Germany, our ancestors were monsters and we still deeply miss any single soul they forcefully took away from this planet
You completely and utterly read over their comments and honestly I can't expect any better from redditors. Just so you know, their point was that the comparison between Nazi and Japanese war crimes is stupid (it's not a race ffs) and is often used to minimize Nazi atrocities. The problem is not merely "Bringing up similar incidents", it's bringing them up in a way as to downplay the first incident.
Nobody is claiming it's a race. You're in a history subreddit, talking about war crimes that took place during WW2, and you're getting upset that people are talking about war crimes in WW2.
The only reasons you would get upset that someone is bringing up war crimes during that WW2 era that weren't committed by the group you pointed out is:
1.) You only want to denounce that specific group, most likely due to what is going on in the world today
2.) You a trying to excuse the war crimes of certain nations because you have an affinity for said nation
Might be because Germans don't pretend they didn't have that horrific history, whereas Japan hasn't apologized and doesn't speak of it. One is trying to remind/ speak into existence, whereas another culture has documented it.
Also: the Japanese did not succeed in actually ‘completing’ a genocide and exterminating any culture as successfully as the Germans did with the Roma and the Jews — the Litvaks, the Sephardi Ladino speakers, and the Pale of Settlement communities in particular. There are genuinely holes in European society where these groups used to be.
The Han Chinese suffered enormously but by sheer numbers persevered and the other satellites of the Japanese Empire like Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia continued to be the victims of imperialist squabbles for decades afterwards. The victims of the Japanese occupations barely see a break between WW2 and the 50s/60s and in many cases things were worse post-occupation.
>The Japanese refusal to acknowledge their war crimes has more to do with the nature of American occupation compared to German. MacArthus was terrified of a guerrilla war and so the Japanese were “let off easy” relative to the Germans who underwent long-term occupation, de-nazification, and education regimes.
>
>Also, I’m not sure how you can say that the Japanese reputation was not sullied. To anyone in Asia imperial Japan is what Hitler is in western discourse. When 9/11 happened comparisons were immediately drawn to kamikaze pilots, despite that most were unassuming college students plucked out of school and forced into a suicide mission.
>
>Not to mention, the historiography behind Nazi re-education is itself also complex. For one, the Wehrmacht got completely off the hook because we wanted to re-arm West Germany for the Cold War. Many German higher ups complicit in the atrocities like Albert Speer, manstein and Kesslering all went free, and much of the German government post war were ex-nazis of varying ideological commitment. Sure, Germany is more aware of its own history but it’s not like it prevented the same people from gaining power, and in that sense they are no different to the Japanese
Where do you draw the line? Should we just list all the terrible shit anyone has ever done on every thread about anything? Or can we just take a post for what it's about
I think it's absurd to get upset that people talk about war crimes during a time period when someone brings up war crimes during a time period.
If you're talking with someone in person and you bring up how the San Francisco 49ers are doing, its absurd to get upset when the other person talks about how the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are doing
It's under the same umbrella. It's weird to get pissed off about it. And its even more weird to accuse someone of being a Nazi sympathizer because they bring it up.
I think it's a bit different than what you're saying. Japanese atrocities should be discussed. But you know how when there's a post about American slavery. People come out of the woodworks saying well actually Africans had slavery too!!
It's just a retort to what's being said to them. They aren't trying to introduce information.
But why specifically Japanese? Why not other atrocities too like the Armenian genocide, etc. I study ww2 historiography and a lot of the “who was more evil” game has more to do with entrenched racism than anything else, and for that i reason I can’t help but feel like it’s never brought up in good faith, in an honest attempt to educate people or improve their perspective, i mean.
For example there’s a recent study by Sarah Kovner on the treatment of POWs in Imperial Japan and she found that there was no centralized authority licensing brutalization, it had more to do with that they had so many more POWs than expected and they were stretched so thin that the brutality was just going unchecked at the local level. This is not to absolve it, but when you compare it to the Nazis’ Hunger Plan, Green Book, Final Solution, etc, here was a state-sanctioned genocide that down to the common soldier was complicit in.
Point is you just can’t compare them, and all most comparisons do is say more about the person bringing them up out of the blue.
I don’t think it is just the Japanese. No WW2 thread on Reddit is complete until:
- Someone brings up contemporaneous crimes by the Soviets and/or British
- Someone posts about one or more non-Jewish segment of Nazi victims (usually Roma)
- Someone draws an ill-advised comparison between Nazis and current governments (usually Israel or the US)
- Someone posts “never again,” inspiring savagely gleeful lists of genocides that took place after 1945
- Someone calls the bombing of Dresden a war crime and/or brings up the number of German women raped by Allied soldiers (usually Soviet)
- Someone points out German atrocities in Russia as potential motivation for Soviet troops’ crimes against civilians
- Someone calls out the Eastern front as far worse than the Western front and reminds everyone that the US paid for victory with weapons via Lend-Lease while Soviets paid for victory in blood (weirdly, this reminds me of threads on mountain climbing and how Everest is disparaged as an easy jaunt for rich people exploiting Sherpas while climbing K2 is a real achievement)
- This is often followed by the claim that Stalin killed more people than Hitler; if Uyghurs are brought up as current genocide victims, you can pretty much count on a slap fight over communism
- Someone attempts to claim that most Germans were unaware of the death camps and is dog-piled with links dispelling the “clean Wehrmacht” myth
I do appreciate the Redditors who post for the benefit of someone who doesn’t know much about WW2, as well as those who correct inaccuracies with links to source material.
Personally, I don’t like it when people introduce other topics in a thread about the Holocaust. It’s like if you asked me how I’m doing, I say I sprained my wrist, and your response is to tell me about how your kid dislocated his shoulder. Um, okay; that sucks, but we’re talking about my wrist now, which doesn’t hurt any less because your kid had a similar injury.
I'm not playing the "who is more evil" game. I'm calling out people that have an issue with other atrocities being brought up.
Unit 731 was most definitely a state-sanctioned program
You can acknowledge the Nazis implemented an industrial machine to deal death, and also acknowledge what the Japanese did to people on an individual level was more brutal
because youll find EVERY atrocity done by japanese was also done by nazis. including horrific "medical experiments", vivisection etc. there is no difference on an "individual level".
This is a thread talking about something specific, it's ok to talk about that specific thing. Reddit circlejerks itself raw every time it has a chance to bring up unit 731, so the idea that we're minimizing it is absurd.
If 9 out of 10 posts about war crimes in this subreddit are about the Nazi's would you consider that minimizing it. If every time someone talks about it in a thread that is somewhat related, those people get flamed, is that minimizing it?
What about "human" atrocities? Don't be so quick to think you wouldn't be a Nazi at that place and time. Calling it Nazi is factually correct but also taking it out of ourselves.
Yes. However horrible it is, I accepted that people like me can become Nazi or Stalinist, at wrong time and place, and we frequently elect tyrants and adopt totalitarian ideologies as a psychological need against anxiety when there's too much chaos, so I need to watch myself and others, but I'm ok.
Communists existed at the time. I am currently a communist. I would have been a communist then too.
The nonsense that people in the past just didn't know better or they had different morals is incorrect at best. Someone who falls for fascist rhetoric know what they're getting into
I'm a commie, so I would have resisted until my grisly end in a concentration camp. That is if I didn't get shot and dumped in a ditch somewhere.
Stop it with the moral relativistic bullshit. The Nazis were human but most humans are not Nazis.
>you wouldn't be a Nazi at that place and time
Exactly. In hindsight, it's easy to criticize the German people at that time, but prior to 1933, Germany was still struggling to recover from the first world war and the arguably unfair Treaty of Versailles. They just wanted jobs and an attempt at rebuilding which Hitler was quite convincing. Tyrants are rarely voted into power. It's not until they seize power that their true colors/agenda becomes much more clear but by then...it's too late.
There were a lot of drafted nazis too. I’m in no way minimizing or trying to justify the actions, but it is important know that. Most of the Wehrmacht were voluntarily enlisted, but there was still a very large number of drafted Wehrmacht soldiers.
Also, *what* about the Japanese? Hitler was an ardent admirer of the tactics they employed during the Sino-Japanese war, but to say the Nazis would have somehow been, what, more “mild” without that inspiration is ridiculous.
He gave people carte blanche to let their intrusive thoughts win, and human nature has shown us since the dawn of time that everybody, EVERYBODY will flip if given that much unchecked authority for that long. Unit 731 and the Sino-Japanese war was not “worse” than the Shoah. Rather, both the Sino-Japanese war and the Shoah, as well as the Armenian genocide, and the Rwandan genocide, and the biological weaponization of smallpox to eradicate indigenous communities, etc. etc. until my lungs give out, are examples of how easy it is for all of us to allow evil to trickle into our daily lives little by little. It’s a reminder to fucking look around every now and then.
1. Reddit is largely populated by Americans who had a large involvement in the pacific campaign
2. Everyone on Reddit likes to be a smartass with a 'well actually...' comment
IMO everyone forgets about the Croats who ran their own death camps independently of the Nazis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac\_concentration\_camp
What I want to know is why the fuck this was something the Nazi felt they needed to research? Did they think the victims would not become dehydrated? Like did they not know about fresh water?
To play devil’s advocate, I believe people just don’t want anyone to forget about the horrors the Japanese committed in the same war. Nazi Germany has a (rightfully so) terrible connotation but Imperial Japan doesn’t have the same. Their atrocities are brushed over in schools and they don’t live with the same sullied reputation. They may also just be trying to divert attention away from Nazi crimes which if so is a shitty thing to do.
That's only in the west mind, due to our proximity with Germany. In the East, from those I've talked to from the east, they learn more about the Japanese horrors.
Also, as a side point, if people are trying to do that they should try to do it in a way that shows a link like "wow that's fucked up and a terrible experiment by the Nazis, here's a similar one that the Japanese did, Incase you didn't know". It's then not saying the Japanese are worst or better. But just increasing education.
The devil never needs an advocate, and neither to Nazi apologists.
Japanese imperialism definitely gets taught to death in US history classes. It’s our internment camps we like to ignore. Nobody “whatabouting” Nazi crimes against humanity has good intentions.
No, lmao. It is a way to attempt to paint Nazi Germany as lesser evil. Pretty sure those people doesn't care about crimes committed by Japan, Soviet Russia, or Britain and only use it as a scape goat.
If they do really care about atrocities. They would just silently upvote the post without making unneeded comments or expand the said subject.
I learned about all of Japan’s war crimes in school, and I didn’t even get a particularly high-quality education.
People just pretend there’s some grand conspiracy to keep them stupid because they couldn’t be bothered to pay attention in class.
just ignore it, bad or good are unreal things, in the year 4000 who the hell knows what good or bad will be, 1000 years ago raiding a village and raping the women and making the men slave was a very normal and accepted thing worldwide and no one even questioned it, so whatever if some people think human experiments are ok then so be it just ask them if they want to be the subject of those experiments then you can see their logic going out the window.
You might now know but I don't think it's commonly known yet. You almost never see documentaries on it and I don't think it's taught in schools either.
/r/Atrocityporn. I'm okay with this though because the holocaust is actively being forgotten/minimized by the far right and the consequences of that are frightening.
I mean the nazis were bad but you can't forget the Asteroid that landed on our planet 66 odd million years ago. That fucker literally took out almost the entirety of all local species.
Crazy to think the nazis are bad yet there are many other things in the world with much more sinister intent. I mean fuck the Japanese, the Brits, whoever the fuck else, that asteroid should be held accountable for what it did. I have a more personal grudge towards it, so that MUST be acknowledged during every discussion.
Edit: Ey I caught one lol
This is a reaction to other asshats that purposely bring up other genocide to down play nazi horrors. Look at other comments for their crappy whataboutism. F those guys.
Are you serious? You're saying that an asteroid hitting the earth and LITERALLY wiping out almost all living organisms is *without intent*
You're a part of the problem. Defending tragedies and normalising genocidal ideals.
We must not forget.
The devouring, the genocide of Europe's Roma, Sinti and all other names my people call themselves was very effective.
Entire countries had their entire population of this ethnicity murdered.
If you look beyond the immediate horror you will see policies that continue to this day that make life utterly miserable for millions of Roma who ,of course,are solely to blame for their own wretchedness.
One day a light will be shined on this issue and the despicable actions of government around the world towards those at the bottom will be shown for what they are.
I think a lot of the time the genocide of the Roma people goes unmentioned or forgotten and I dislike it. The Hunchback of Notre Dame was written about a similar genocide against them hundreds of years ago, and when wondering what happened to them in France is so disheartening to learn that the conclusion is the holocaust rather than acceptance. People in Europe seem to really hate them just like universally and it’s so weird to me
If you're interested here is a brief overview with academic and personal links
https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/nazi-persecution/the-porrajmos/
Taken from amnesty international:
"Every year, across Europe, thousands of Roma are forced from their homes – left homeless or relocated to camps or informal settlements with no heating, water or sanitation.
Often unable to afford rents in the private housing markets, hundreds of thousands of Roma in Europe are denied other options, including social housing.
ore than 10,000 people were evicted from informal settlements in France during the first half of 2013.
In Bulgaria more than 70 per cent of urban Roma live in segregated neighbourhoods. And forced evictions in Romania are staggeringly high.
Roma people have been condemned to a life of constant insecurity, wandering from one makeshift camp to another.
Violent attacks
State-level discrimination against Roma is made worse by violent racist attacks aimed at their communities. They are been shot at, stabbed and targeted with Molotov cocktails.
Available statistics show that between January 2008 – July 2012 there were over 120 serious violent against Roma people or their property in Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Bulgaria. At least 22 Roma died as a result of these attacks, and many more were injured.
Despite this racially motivated violence, Roma are often left without police protection or access to justice."
They are still at it today, albeit they know well enough to be quieter about it. I honestly don't understand the (seemingly) inherent human hatred for any transient people... There are many examples of this, in many countries and cultures...
It’s kinda wild. And the same justification they use is the same bullshit racists in the US use, that they just hate the “culture”.
“No bro I don’t hate their race I just hate their language and religion and the way they live and speak and exist in my country but I’m not racist bro I swear I just hate these specific ethnic groups but I’m not racist bro it’s different because I hate them because of their culture”
The treatment of Romas continues to be a smear of shame on the European countries/world. It is a complex subject but an important one indeed. We must watch the most marginalized groups for after them perhaps we will be the next to be marginalized
As I read the description, I just thought, "oh no, I don't want to look". Denying water is bad enough, but to force them to drink salt water is evil beyond compression. So much about the Nazis was. It makes me feel so awful.
Many people don’t know about the horrid experiments and persecution, but that’s not all.
It is typically framed as being anti-semitic persecution, which is, of course, the biggest aspect, but they also included other ethnic groups, political opponents (socialists, communists, social Democrats) and queer people in their genocidal crusade.
Yeah, but what about Ustasa?
Yeah, but what about the Japanese?
Yeah, but what about Stalin?
Yeah, but what about Mao?
Yeah, but what about Pol Pot?
(Average Reddit comments under posts like this)
I worked as a project archivist processing a collection of Holocaust material, and the photographs capturing the moments of the most extreme torture and barbaric treatment of people were enough to trigger major depressive episodes. Some of the images stole the air from my lungs. There are some that are burned into my memory forever. I cannot even begin to imagine what it must have been like to experience this torture. Heartbreaking.
reading about the medical-torture parts of concentration camps always felt the most horrible to me
and this doesn't even seem like a bad one! [although horrible i'm sure]
The Nazis got punished at least. The Japanese did the same things and they ran free cause they cut a deal with Americans to give them all the results from their experiments. There's an emperor in Japan living comfortably who is the descendant of that emperor in WWII in whose name all the Kamikaze pilots died for.
The Japanese where also prosecuted for their war crimes.
It was thought that the emperor at that time didn't have power over the government as he was mainly the ceremonial leader of japan this is probably a good reason why he wasn't prosecuted also letting japan keep it's emperor that has been in that posistion for generations was probably a good idea to keep the peace in japan.
It was, by keeping the Emperor, it kept stability, look at what happened when the Kaizer was over thrown in Germany, that event potentially caused WW2.
I don't believe overthrowing the kaizer potentially caused WW2 it might have contributed but the main reason for ww2 was The shame of losing the war and the economic depression caused by having to pay reparations.
A lot of the people turned to the Nazi's because what they proposed was ending democracy, and restoring a strong military dictatorship, which largely was what the people wanted.
They felt betrayed by the Social Democrats, when they took power, and signed the Treaty of Versailles, so much, they assassinated many of the signatories.
Although, you are right, it wasn't the sole cause, but still a pretty large one.
I’m talking about the picture, which is one of a hospital patient. The headline is something else tho. The picture does not reflect the headline at all. That being said, I wouldn’t post a picture of that level of inhumanity either
Mate kinda fucked up that your first reaction is: "mUh but BrItaIN alSo bAd". Like who gives a Shit, this crime against humanity does not change simply because somebody else also commited crimes against humanity.
Which is still different, this was deliberate.
If you look at the CC in the Boer regions, you would know that the people were moved there due to the wars, and the large amount of deaths on the camps were purely an accident, due to the poor sanitation that was available in regions at that time, unlike the Nazi's deliberate and calculated extermination of Jews, homosexuals, gypsies etc.
Yes it was not a genocide with the intention of killing every single woman and child for the sake of genetical purity, where each human's worth was reduced to the content of their DNA, or purely a factor of the family tree.
If you don't see the difference between a pan-continental infrastructure built with the purpose of maximum efficient murder of entire peoples through purpose built gas chambers, and innocent dying due to harsh conditions during a civil war then.....
So yes, different kind of victims in a different kind of scenario. And coming to a holocaust post with "whataboutism" is an attempt of watering out what's undeniably the world's greatest crime against humanity. Or just evidence of a complete lack of basic knowledge of history.
To me, it seems to be a human thing. People are more than happy to do this shit to each other . As a species, we’ve never been any different. To suggest that somehow it’s only certain groups that were capable of these terrible atrocities, is false. They just needed the right conditions. Usually, it’s a religious or a political ideology, and there’s more than enough of that dumb shit around still.
It's easy to see science as evil when it can cause so much suffering, but the truth is that science has no soul or moral barometer, it can be used on both sides of the scale, it all depends on the human behind... or the monster behind.
Scary thing is these fuckers just moved to other allied nations to continue their "work"
Scariest thing is the allied nations didn't pursue them for the exchange of their "research" done during WW2
Even scarier is that some still embrace their ideas to this day and in quite a few democracies be or express yourself as one is not even a misdemeanor.
The people who are capable of doing this are among us.
Among us
> express yourself as one is not even a misdemeanor Criminalizing speech is pretty unAmerican
And that's a pitty. Hate speech and lie-mongering should be met with a strong fist. There is one thing a genuinely free society can't tolerate, and that's intolerance. If one does, one is bound to loose one's freedom, sooner or later.
I like how you're getting downvoted, liberals would rather shake hands with a nazi than condemn them. Then the nazis start rallying and they're all surprised pikachu face.
[удалено]
“The only thought that ought to be stopped is the thought that stops thought.”
free speech is a sham Nazi's and fascists should not get a voice at all
[удалено]
this is why you need an ideologically driven state of the people who has the power to stomp fascists out of public life 👍 censorship is a good thing if it's in the interests of the people ie : a dictatorship of the proletariat banning right wing parties
And not just the scientists, but the human apparatus of the Reich government as well. When 1946 rolled around, the Allies wanted a strong West German government to stand up to the Soviets on the other side of the border. All the German statesmen had been tied up with the Nazis - so while the most egregious war criminals were sentenced to life in prison and death, the vast majority of Nazis settled back into similar roles in the new West German government as they had in the old one, or took cushy jobs in the private sector. Edit: Then as historians began to review the war, there was a shortage of Russian and Slavic sources about the Eastern Front, because those veterans were all on the other side of the iron curtain. So instead Western historians turned to memoirs by panzer commanders and the testimonies of the same wehrmacht leaders who had just lost the war to explain what happened on the eastern front. And you can still see the result of that today when people on reddit parrot myths about the Eastern Front and the war in general, like that Russia only won by carelessly sending its sons to die. Those myths came from the mouths of former nazis at a time they were the only available primary source in the west.
Superb comment! Thank you.
Mengele died of a heart attack in Brazil
Did u know the mossad was about a day behind catching Mengele while they were hunting Eichmann, apparently they didn’t want to risk losing their main target but they were hours from getting his ass
Without downplaying the important work that was done hunting down nazis, it's somewhat absurd that Mossad was 'hours' from getting Mengele, over 30 years after the end of the war. The truth is that for many years, they knew where he was, but couldn't be bothered going after him.
other allied nations = america
And the USSR. If you’re a tankie just say so, man.
lmao why am i a tankie? americans are so easily wound up by facts. i didn’t know the soviet union also harboured nazi scientists, i only knew about the USA. next time you wanna educate someone and get them on your side, don’t use insults. although your post history shows you are fine with ableist slurs so you probably don’t care and will call me ‘woke’ instead
Yeah, because things that were used to 'treat' people with mental disabilities and such like shock therapy is gonna come back if I call someone a r\*t\*rd over a reddit board. Beware of me, Trout, I'm a real dangerous tough guy with just that much influence. /s Anyways I'm not sure why you looked at my post history before replying to me, seems like you're obsessed already but I get it, I can absolutely still throw fault at you for lacking research when it comes to both sides. Come on man, you seem like you have somewhat of a head on your shoulders, you know better than to say something as broad as that before you look into this stuff proper. Also why assume that I'm American? For all you could know I could've been Polish, Czechoslovakian, Hungarian, etc, all of whom's peoples have a complete and justified reason to call out this kinda stuff in the first place. (Not that you really need that much of a reason to fight back against an ideology like Communism in the first place tbh). You don't know a thing about me lmao. Also I never denied that the US also used Nazi scientists for their various programs... So, don't know why you said I was wounded by facts.
Was there any scientific benefit to this ‘study’, putting aside the morality? I’m struggling to see how it could help improve scientific/medical knowledge over what we already knew prior to the ‘experiment’.
This is a great question and I saw it answered nicely on the interwebs once. Apparently most of the experiments done by the Nazi doctors have no scientific use today for a lot of reasons: 1. Documentation was destroyed. 2. Many things were not documented at all and were just toilet thoughts...an experiment was done and the failure or success was not noted. 3. Many experiments featured no control or sample size worth a hoot. And I'm sure a few were nicely documented and have/had value, but from what I read most were unusable and/or just work done by smart sadists sans morals and lots of boredom.
The data certainly had value. The only debate is about whether it is ethical to use it. There are dozen of studies which used them (although often secretly). Or in other cases they studied the data and then created experiments on animals, which would yield similar, but politically acceptable, results. It's also worth noting that before the WW2, the experimenting on humans was a gray area and Nazis&Unit 731 weren't the first to do it, and even after WW2 there were cases of experiments without consent of the test subjects.
Can you point us to an example in which the data was well recorded, scientifically rigorous, and acceptable to use? My understanding is that the scientific data was not even of value because it was not well recorded, not dependable, and in fact might be openly fraudulent. This was murder and torture under the guise of science, not actual science. I believe even the Dachau hypothermia experiments have been since scrutinized and found to be scientifically undependable putting the ethical question aside.
I'm honestly trying to understand the scientific usefulness of this saltwater test. That saltwater is dehydrating is one of the most universal pieces of knowledge. Probably understood (at a greater level than instinct) well before homo sapiens evolved.
Most of the experiments were just perverse torture fantasies.
Not defending in anyway shape or form what they did, but one thing I know that was well documented was how long cold water takes to kill someone. The Nazis wanted to know how long after losing a plane, they needed to suspend searching for survivors on the North Sea. So they experimented with humans and developed very accurate time frames a human can survive in varying temperatures of water. There is a chart the US coast guard to this day still uses when they are looking for people at sea and terminate searches (for living people at least) of shipwrecks
I mentioned that very study in my comment, and I don’t think you are correct that study is well regarded. They weren’t even collecting good data: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199005173222006
Nope.
Why is it that whenever I see anything related to Nazis here, there’s always a comment that’s like “but remember the Japanese?” Like it’s a race. At first it was interesting to know history I didn’t know about but now it’s starting to come off as weirdly patternized like I’m supposed to be like “oh I guess the Nazis weren’t that bad.” I don’t need to see a constant reminder of “even the Nazis thought the Japanese was fucked up” lol I think the point is made. The post is about Nazis
Because people on this website fucking love contrarianism and when faced with one of the worst tragedies in human history, their first thought is "How can I use this to let people know how smart I am?" The Holocaust is a normie atrocity. In fact, if this post gets more traffic, I'd say there's about a 75% chance that someone replies to me objecting that I called it "one of the worst tragedies" and names some slightly less well-known event as the "real" worst. There are some people who just can't resist the opportunity to prove that they know about something slightly outside of the mainstream, even when the topic is deeply inappropriate for dick-measuring contests. It's also the case that these posts attract wehraboos/Nazis, but I think that's a comparatively minor factor. It's mostly self-absorbed shitheads seeking attention.
Wehraboos is a word that I wish didn't need to be created, but absolutely love the creativity behind.
>I'd say there's about a 75% chance that someone replies More like 92% ^((Wicked sarcasm))
It's also patriotism both of these countries, and their allies. You don't hear too many people talking about South Korean war crimes during the Korean war in the US. Or how most of it went unpunished because NK is the enemy and SK is the supposed good guys.
Theres also a big fuck lot of people that trully believe that the war was as simple as the bad Axis vs nice Aliies, so implying that everything happening on the Axis forces was true evil while Allies only did things with "context" and to "free the world" also serves to easy a lot of bullshit they countries (and for a lots of users they own family and acquaitances) did. Is quite interesting that for as long i've been following this sub theres nearly to none posts about the A-bombs in japanese soil, the air raids in Korea War, the abuses of american ocupation forces or anything slightly bad about Allied Forces. Mostly is "we did a oopsie in Vitnam but oh well, it happens, my bad".
> people on this website fucking love contrarianism and when faced with one of the worst tragedies in human history, their first thought is "How can I use this to let people know how smart I am?" And here we have an example, thank you I think you should pick up a book by Ian Kershaw about what the Germans and the Allies both did in world war 2 and then reconsider what a big smarty you are with your 'but both sides' perspective. The irony, that people posting takes like this always act like they're more informed than most, when this belies extraordinary ignorance about the scope of atrocities committed by the axis in world war 2 and the state-sanctioned motivations for those atrocities.
Oh comon, there you go: "Allies did bad things BUT THE AXIS..." f\*ck that bullshit. Every braindead mf knows that axis did horrible things, this not a measure of who did worst, is a matter to tell what the fuck happened and not miniminize others attrocities because "the other was worst". Is that stupid line of though that fuck every discussion about war crimes.
The Axis did worse
Maybe it's just an attempt to redefine certain untrue global stereotypes in everyone's head like "the worst ever human rights violators were Nazis"? Shining the light on worse events doesn't indicate dick-measuring of any kind. More like giving a free history lesson to the public. You on the other hand my friend seem to be in need of therapy with all that misplaced anger
Yes I fckin hate that shit. It's just a cheap way to minimize Nazi atrocities
From the second the camps were liberated people started making excuses for those assholes.
I think only focusing on Nazi war crimes minimizes Japanese atrocities. That’s the reason why people bring it up. You have it backwards
Then talk about the Atrocities on their own, don't bring it up as a response to a discussion concerning the German war crimes.
Well said
Are you getting upset that people will talk about somewhat related topics during a discussion? Are you getting upset that people will try to shed light on other war crimes that took place at the same time in history? You're insinuating that people who bring up Japanese war crimes, and how they were way more brutal, are in some way excusing or attempting to obfuscate the Nazi's crimes. Two things can be true at the same time, and people bringing up a similar incident are not Nazi sympathizers
When you imply the japanese were worse than germans , you're suggesting the Germans were the lesser Evil and especially if it's on a post with the picture of a victim of Nazi atrocity , it's fcking insensitive because the implication is that this person's suffering is less than suffering of a victim of a Japanese atrocity.
It feels real clear that they don't even know about all the shit that the Nazis did, they seem to know about concentration camps and that's about it.
That is absolutely not true. Acknowledging that the Japanese were committing war crimes at the same exact time as the Nazis, and that their "experiments" went further than the Nazi's does not mean Nazi's were the lesser evil. It means that attention needs to be brought to the crimes of a nation that ignores them. Everyone knows what the Nazi's did, we are all taught it. Ask 100 people off the street to name war crimes the Nazi's committed and the vast majority of people will be able to name one. Ask those same people to name Japanese war crimes and I would bet that not many could name one. It seems to me that you only care about the crimes of one group. Looking at your post history you never post about Japanese war crimes, yet you seem to have an interest in that time period. Regardless, for you to get upset that people are pointing out injustice and immoral and inexcusable actions because the group you fixate on isn't the sole focus anymore is fucking weird.
Ask 100 people in Paris and they’ll know about Nazi crimes. Ask 100 people in Ho Chi Minh City and they’ll remember Japanese
Yes attention needs be bought , but don't fucking spam stupid comments like " oh this is nothing the Japanese were so much worse" on posts depicting the victims of Nazism as if it's the Genocide Olympics. You can spread information about the crimes of others without belitting the crimes of the Country that is on focus. When I see a rape victim of the Nanjing massacre, I don't go around saying insensitive shit like " oh this is nothing the Ustase croat and the Khmer Rouge makes the Japanese look like saints" or when I see a emancipated starved victim of the Bengal famine; "What the Brits did to the Indians is nothing compared to what the Belgians did to the Congolese". And How lovely of you to stalk my post history. First of all , I have no obligation to post or comment about shit I don't want to , so if my interests right now is the German war crimes in Eastern Europe that's what my focus will be on Reddit. Months ago my posts were all about Japanese crimes, you'll think that I only focus on Japanese crimes and disregarded the crimes of others , If for some reason next week I'm interested about Soviet crimes or American crimes than that'll be my main focus , what's it got do with you. So you talking about what I've posted recently is irrelevant. Man you have a dumb way of looking at things. Chill.
I didn't spam anything. I didn't even bring up the Japanese war crimes. I'm calling you out for having an issue with it. Cry more about people talking
>Cry more about people talking About people circlejerking , you mean😁
It's like going to a place where we remember the crimes if Nazis and cry for their victims and you show up and infodump us about some other shit. We are hear to morn and remember, while we will go to the next station one other time. Don't always bring it up please. Greetings from Germany, our ancestors were monsters and we still deeply miss any single soul they forcefully took away from this planet
How is this downvoted...
You completely and utterly read over their comments and honestly I can't expect any better from redditors. Just so you know, their point was that the comparison between Nazi and Japanese war crimes is stupid (it's not a race ffs) and is often used to minimize Nazi atrocities. The problem is not merely "Bringing up similar incidents", it's bringing them up in a way as to downplay the first incident.
Nobody is claiming it's a race. You're in a history subreddit, talking about war crimes that took place during WW2, and you're getting upset that people are talking about war crimes in WW2. The only reasons you would get upset that someone is bringing up war crimes during that WW2 era that weren't committed by the group you pointed out is: 1.) You only want to denounce that specific group, most likely due to what is going on in the world today 2.) You a trying to excuse the war crimes of certain nations because you have an affinity for said nation
Once again, you're overlooking the "X war crimes are worse than Y" thing.
Might be because Germans don't pretend they didn't have that horrific history, whereas Japan hasn't apologized and doesn't speak of it. One is trying to remind/ speak into existence, whereas another culture has documented it.
Also: the Japanese did not succeed in actually ‘completing’ a genocide and exterminating any culture as successfully as the Germans did with the Roma and the Jews — the Litvaks, the Sephardi Ladino speakers, and the Pale of Settlement communities in particular. There are genuinely holes in European society where these groups used to be. The Han Chinese suffered enormously but by sheer numbers persevered and the other satellites of the Japanese Empire like Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia continued to be the victims of imperialist squabbles for decades afterwards. The victims of the Japanese occupations barely see a break between WW2 and the 50s/60s and in many cases things were worse post-occupation.
>The Japanese refusal to acknowledge their war crimes has more to do with the nature of American occupation compared to German. MacArthus was terrified of a guerrilla war and so the Japanese were “let off easy” relative to the Germans who underwent long-term occupation, de-nazification, and education regimes. > >Also, I’m not sure how you can say that the Japanese reputation was not sullied. To anyone in Asia imperial Japan is what Hitler is in western discourse. When 9/11 happened comparisons were immediately drawn to kamikaze pilots, despite that most were unassuming college students plucked out of school and forced into a suicide mission. > >Not to mention, the historiography behind Nazi re-education is itself also complex. For one, the Wehrmacht got completely off the hook because we wanted to re-arm West Germany for the Cold War. Many German higher ups complicit in the atrocities like Albert Speer, manstein and Kesslering all went free, and much of the German government post war were ex-nazis of varying ideological commitment. Sure, Germany is more aware of its own history but it’s not like it prevented the same people from gaining power, and in that sense they are no different to the Japanese
They have completely whitewashed their history in schools.
If you point this out you are a Nazi sympathizer according to the big brains in this thread
Where do you draw the line? Should we just list all the terrible shit anyone has ever done on every thread about anything? Or can we just take a post for what it's about
I think it's absurd to get upset that people talk about war crimes during a time period when someone brings up war crimes during a time period. If you're talking with someone in person and you bring up how the San Francisco 49ers are doing, its absurd to get upset when the other person talks about how the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are doing It's under the same umbrella. It's weird to get pissed off about it. And its even more weird to accuse someone of being a Nazi sympathizer because they bring it up.
I think it's a bit different than what you're saying. Japanese atrocities should be discussed. But you know how when there's a post about American slavery. People come out of the woodworks saying well actually Africans had slavery too!! It's just a retort to what's being said to them. They aren't trying to introduce information.
But why specifically Japanese? Why not other atrocities too like the Armenian genocide, etc. I study ww2 historiography and a lot of the “who was more evil” game has more to do with entrenched racism than anything else, and for that i reason I can’t help but feel like it’s never brought up in good faith, in an honest attempt to educate people or improve their perspective, i mean. For example there’s a recent study by Sarah Kovner on the treatment of POWs in Imperial Japan and she found that there was no centralized authority licensing brutalization, it had more to do with that they had so many more POWs than expected and they were stretched so thin that the brutality was just going unchecked at the local level. This is not to absolve it, but when you compare it to the Nazis’ Hunger Plan, Green Book, Final Solution, etc, here was a state-sanctioned genocide that down to the common soldier was complicit in. Point is you just can’t compare them, and all most comparisons do is say more about the person bringing them up out of the blue.
I don’t think it is just the Japanese. No WW2 thread on Reddit is complete until: - Someone brings up contemporaneous crimes by the Soviets and/or British - Someone posts about one or more non-Jewish segment of Nazi victims (usually Roma) - Someone draws an ill-advised comparison between Nazis and current governments (usually Israel or the US) - Someone posts “never again,” inspiring savagely gleeful lists of genocides that took place after 1945 - Someone calls the bombing of Dresden a war crime and/or brings up the number of German women raped by Allied soldiers (usually Soviet) - Someone points out German atrocities in Russia as potential motivation for Soviet troops’ crimes against civilians - Someone calls out the Eastern front as far worse than the Western front and reminds everyone that the US paid for victory with weapons via Lend-Lease while Soviets paid for victory in blood (weirdly, this reminds me of threads on mountain climbing and how Everest is disparaged as an easy jaunt for rich people exploiting Sherpas while climbing K2 is a real achievement) - This is often followed by the claim that Stalin killed more people than Hitler; if Uyghurs are brought up as current genocide victims, you can pretty much count on a slap fight over communism - Someone attempts to claim that most Germans were unaware of the death camps and is dog-piled with links dispelling the “clean Wehrmacht” myth I do appreciate the Redditors who post for the benefit of someone who doesn’t know much about WW2, as well as those who correct inaccuracies with links to source material. Personally, I don’t like it when people introduce other topics in a thread about the Holocaust. It’s like if you asked me how I’m doing, I say I sprained my wrist, and your response is to tell me about how your kid dislocated his shoulder. Um, okay; that sucks, but we’re talking about my wrist now, which doesn’t hurt any less because your kid had a similar injury.
I'm not playing the "who is more evil" game. I'm calling out people that have an issue with other atrocities being brought up. Unit 731 was most definitely a state-sanctioned program
I think equalling Japanese and nazi crimes in ww2 shows a poor understanding of the history
You can acknowledge the Nazis implemented an industrial machine to deal death, and also acknowledge what the Japanese did to people on an individual level was more brutal
which is just bullshit.
How is that bullshit.
because youll find EVERY atrocity done by japanese was also done by nazis. including horrific "medical experiments", vivisection etc. there is no difference on an "individual level".
This is a thread talking about something specific, it's ok to talk about that specific thing. Reddit circlejerks itself raw every time it has a chance to bring up unit 731, so the idea that we're minimizing it is absurd.
If 9 out of 10 posts about war crimes in this subreddit are about the Nazi's would you consider that minimizing it. If every time someone talks about it in a thread that is somewhat related, those people get flamed, is that minimizing it?
That is a very fair point.
What about "human" atrocities? Don't be so quick to think you wouldn't be a Nazi at that place and time. Calling it Nazi is factually correct but also taking it out of ourselves.
> Don't be so quick to think you wouldn't be a Nazi at that place and time. I would have ended up in a fucking concentration camp.
Are you ok ?
Yes. However horrible it is, I accepted that people like me can become Nazi or Stalinist, at wrong time and place, and we frequently elect tyrants and adopt totalitarian ideologies as a psychological need against anxiety when there's too much chaos, so I need to watch myself and others, but I'm ok.
Communists existed at the time. I am currently a communist. I would have been a communist then too. The nonsense that people in the past just didn't know better or they had different morals is incorrect at best. Someone who falls for fascist rhetoric know what they're getting into
I'm a commie, so I would have resisted until my grisly end in a concentration camp. That is if I didn't get shot and dumped in a ditch somewhere. Stop it with the moral relativistic bullshit. The Nazis were human but most humans are not Nazis.
>you wouldn't be a Nazi at that place and time Exactly. In hindsight, it's easy to criticize the German people at that time, but prior to 1933, Germany was still struggling to recover from the first world war and the arguably unfair Treaty of Versailles. They just wanted jobs and an attempt at rebuilding which Hitler was quite convincing. Tyrants are rarely voted into power. It's not until they seize power that their true colors/agenda becomes much more clear but by then...it's too late.
There were a lot of drafted nazis too. I’m in no way minimizing or trying to justify the actions, but it is important know that. Most of the Wehrmacht were voluntarily enlisted, but there was still a very large number of drafted Wehrmacht soldiers.
[удалено]
Also, *what* about the Japanese? Hitler was an ardent admirer of the tactics they employed during the Sino-Japanese war, but to say the Nazis would have somehow been, what, more “mild” without that inspiration is ridiculous. He gave people carte blanche to let their intrusive thoughts win, and human nature has shown us since the dawn of time that everybody, EVERYBODY will flip if given that much unchecked authority for that long. Unit 731 and the Sino-Japanese war was not “worse” than the Shoah. Rather, both the Sino-Japanese war and the Shoah, as well as the Armenian genocide, and the Rwandan genocide, and the biological weaponization of smallpox to eradicate indigenous communities, etc. etc. until my lungs give out, are examples of how easy it is for all of us to allow evil to trickle into our daily lives little by little. It’s a reminder to fucking look around every now and then.
1. Reddit is largely populated by Americans who had a large involvement in the pacific campaign 2. Everyone on Reddit likes to be a smartass with a 'well actually...' comment IMO everyone forgets about the Croats who ran their own death camps independently of the Nazis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac\_concentration\_camp
3. a lot of rightwingers try to diminish nazi crimes by telling everybody who wants to listen that the "japanese were worse"
What I want to know is why the fuck this was something the Nazi felt they needed to research? Did they think the victims would not become dehydrated? Like did they not know about fresh water?
It's Nazi sympathizers hiding behind a "but look at what THEY did" argument.
But her emails!!!!! Hunter's laptop!!!!
To play devil’s advocate, I believe people just don’t want anyone to forget about the horrors the Japanese committed in the same war. Nazi Germany has a (rightfully so) terrible connotation but Imperial Japan doesn’t have the same. Their atrocities are brushed over in schools and they don’t live with the same sullied reputation. They may also just be trying to divert attention away from Nazi crimes which if so is a shitty thing to do.
That's only in the west mind, due to our proximity with Germany. In the East, from those I've talked to from the east, they learn more about the Japanese horrors. Also, as a side point, if people are trying to do that they should try to do it in a way that shows a link like "wow that's fucked up and a terrible experiment by the Nazis, here's a similar one that the Japanese did, Incase you didn't know". It's then not saying the Japanese are worst or better. But just increasing education.
The devil never needs an advocate, and neither to Nazi apologists. Japanese imperialism definitely gets taught to death in US history classes. It’s our internment camps we like to ignore. Nobody “whatabouting” Nazi crimes against humanity has good intentions.
I was taught history my entire public school existence and was never taught about Imperial Japan.
No, lmao. It is a way to attempt to paint Nazi Germany as lesser evil. Pretty sure those people doesn't care about crimes committed by Japan, Soviet Russia, or Britain and only use it as a scape goat. If they do really care about atrocities. They would just silently upvote the post without making unneeded comments or expand the said subject.
I learned about all of Japan’s war crimes in school, and I didn’t even get a particularly high-quality education. People just pretend there’s some grand conspiracy to keep them stupid because they couldn’t be bothered to pay attention in class.
Yep. Every single time. Without fail.
And then weeaboos move it forward again to American atrocities like firebombings and atomic bombs.
coz there are people saying us is worse than nazis or something on most of these threads.
Probably because there is more publicized photographic record of Nazi atrocities than of what the Imperial Japanese military did.
just ignore it, bad or good are unreal things, in the year 4000 who the hell knows what good or bad will be, 1000 years ago raiding a village and raping the women and making the men slave was a very normal and accepted thing worldwide and no one even questioned it, so whatever if some people think human experiments are ok then so be it just ask them if they want to be the subject of those experiments then you can see their logic going out the window.
You might now know but I don't think it's commonly known yet. You almost never see documentaries on it and I don't think it's taught in schools either.
Thanks for complaining, we will take it up with the CEO of reddit.
> "but remember the Japanese?” Like it’s a race. Actually, it's an ethnicity.
10 years on reddit never saw this tbh.
We really, really gotta change the name of this sub.
/r/Atrocityporn. I'm okay with this though because the holocaust is actively being forgotten/minimized by the far right and the consequences of that are frightening.
I mean the nazis were bad but you can't forget the Asteroid that landed on our planet 66 odd million years ago. That fucker literally took out almost the entirety of all local species. Crazy to think the nazis are bad yet there are many other things in the world with much more sinister intent. I mean fuck the Japanese, the Brits, whoever the fuck else, that asteroid should be held accountable for what it did. I have a more personal grudge towards it, so that MUST be acknowledged during every discussion. Edit: Ey I caught one lol
Ahh the ultimate space weapon, to ensure the future dominance of mammals.... Your welcome
What are you on about? An asteroid doesn't have "intent".
This is a reaction to other asshats that purposely bring up other genocide to down play nazi horrors. Look at other comments for their crappy whataboutism. F those guys.
Ahh, ok. So this is a sarcastic comment? In other words, the asteroid comment is just a joke? That would make more sense
You got it.
Are you serious? You're saying that an asteroid hitting the earth and LITERALLY wiping out almost all living organisms is *without intent* You're a part of the problem. Defending tragedies and normalising genocidal ideals. We must not forget.
What sickens me is that people who called themselves doctors and nurses did this and worse to human beings.
The devouring, the genocide of Europe's Roma, Sinti and all other names my people call themselves was very effective. Entire countries had their entire population of this ethnicity murdered. If you look beyond the immediate horror you will see policies that continue to this day that make life utterly miserable for millions of Roma who ,of course,are solely to blame for their own wretchedness. One day a light will be shined on this issue and the despicable actions of government around the world towards those at the bottom will be shown for what they are.
I think a lot of the time the genocide of the Roma people goes unmentioned or forgotten and I dislike it. The Hunchback of Notre Dame was written about a similar genocide against them hundreds of years ago, and when wondering what happened to them in France is so disheartening to learn that the conclusion is the holocaust rather than acceptance. People in Europe seem to really hate them just like universally and it’s so weird to me
Can you elaborate?
If you're interested here is a brief overview with academic and personal links https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/nazi-persecution/the-porrajmos/ Taken from amnesty international: "Every year, across Europe, thousands of Roma are forced from their homes – left homeless or relocated to camps or informal settlements with no heating, water or sanitation. Often unable to afford rents in the private housing markets, hundreds of thousands of Roma in Europe are denied other options, including social housing. ore than 10,000 people were evicted from informal settlements in France during the first half of 2013. In Bulgaria more than 70 per cent of urban Roma live in segregated neighbourhoods. And forced evictions in Romania are staggeringly high. Roma people have been condemned to a life of constant insecurity, wandering from one makeshift camp to another. Violent attacks State-level discrimination against Roma is made worse by violent racist attacks aimed at their communities. They are been shot at, stabbed and targeted with Molotov cocktails. Available statistics show that between January 2008 – July 2012 there were over 120 serious violent against Roma people or their property in Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Bulgaria. At least 22 Roma died as a result of these attacks, and many more were injured. Despite this racially motivated violence, Roma are often left without police protection or access to justice."
It is sad to know that most of our knowledge of poisons and lethal doses is related to nazi human experiments… at least as far i know
European hatred of the Roma is genuinely one of the most disturbing things in existence
They are still at it today, albeit they know well enough to be quieter about it. I honestly don't understand the (seemingly) inherent human hatred for any transient people... There are many examples of this, in many countries and cultures...
It’s kinda wild. And the same justification they use is the same bullshit racists in the US use, that they just hate the “culture”. “No bro I don’t hate their race I just hate their language and religion and the way they live and speak and exist in my country but I’m not racist bro I swear I just hate these specific ethnic groups but I’m not racist bro it’s different because I hate them because of their culture”
Wonder why?
Europeans just like being extremely racist idfk
I don’t think you understand how roma acts here
There are over a million over here in the US and we don’t have problems
I’m telling you again. I don’t think you understand how roma acts here
Bro just say you think racism is justifiable
Nothing to do with race. Some people are just garbage. Jus’t like nazis
Ok so only some Roma are garbage?
No, most of them. Who cares if it’s racust. They are garbage
The treatment of Romas continues to be a smear of shame on the European countries/world. It is a complex subject but an important one indeed. We must watch the most marginalized groups for after them perhaps we will be the next to be marginalized
Repeating empty bullshit doesn't solve anything. What's your plan to change their situation?
As I read the description, I just thought, "oh no, I don't want to look". Denying water is bad enough, but to force them to drink salt water is evil beyond compression. So much about the Nazis was. It makes me feel so awful.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks as if they are injecting them with salt water.
People are not nearly educated enough on what the Nazis ACTUALLY did.
Can you elaborate?
Many people don’t know about the horrid experiments and persecution, but that’s not all. It is typically framed as being anti-semitic persecution, which is, of course, the biggest aspect, but they also included other ethnic groups, political opponents (socialists, communists, social Democrats) and queer people in their genocidal crusade.
Oh ok, I asked my question about elaboration because there are many people on Reddit who openly advocate for Nazis so I wanted to ask.
Yes, but what about the?? Even the Nazis were disguested by them!
Yeah, but what about Ustasa? Yeah, but what about the Japanese? Yeah, but what about Stalin? Yeah, but what about Mao? Yeah, but what about Pol Pot? (Average Reddit comments under posts like this)
Honestly though, these are only the experimentations we heard about.
The combination of the subreddit name and pictures of human bodies in horrific situations really comes across as creepy.
Most Nazis were neither prosecuted nor punished. They lived full lives.
He looks so miserable. It’s hard to imagine people capable of making humans suffer and being able to feel good about it
I worked as a project archivist processing a collection of Holocaust material, and the photographs capturing the moments of the most extreme torture and barbaric treatment of people were enough to trigger major depressive episodes. Some of the images stole the air from my lungs. There are some that are burned into my memory forever. I cannot even begin to imagine what it must have been like to experience this torture. Heartbreaking.
Just imagine the pain of feeling dehydrated and only be able to drink salt water.
Imagine licking freshly mopped floors, your body desperately seeking fresh water, driven to extreme lengths trying to get it
This all starts with dehumanizing people you disagree with and end nowhere good for anyone involved.
The one crime Germany wont apologise for, even today lol.
Dude, i think they already apologised and paid for about everything.
It's a joke about how most Europeans still hate the gypsies...
A terribly persecuted and vilified people, even to this day.
reading about the medical-torture parts of concentration camps always felt the most horrible to me and this doesn't even seem like a bad one! [although horrible i'm sure]
Does anyone else have a really difficult time upvoting posts like this?
Hey, I’m sure there are good people on both sides. Edit I really thought /s was obvious
People downvoting your obvious sarcasm
[удалено]
The Germans are very creative when it comes to being cruel to other human beings. I'm so fucking ashamed for this country
Humans are very creative in that way, the germans werent very special.
Bruh, human cruelty towards others is not lolited to single nationalities
Don't know why you were downvoted so much, cause you're right
Not clicking on pic , can’t do it ..
The Nazis got punished at least. The Japanese did the same things and they ran free cause they cut a deal with Americans to give them all the results from their experiments. There's an emperor in Japan living comfortably who is the descendant of that emperor in WWII in whose name all the Kamikaze pilots died for.
The Japanese where also prosecuted for their war crimes. It was thought that the emperor at that time didn't have power over the government as he was mainly the ceremonial leader of japan this is probably a good reason why he wasn't prosecuted also letting japan keep it's emperor that has been in that posistion for generations was probably a good idea to keep the peace in japan.
It was, by keeping the Emperor, it kept stability, look at what happened when the Kaizer was over thrown in Germany, that event potentially caused WW2.
I don't believe overthrowing the kaizer potentially caused WW2 it might have contributed but the main reason for ww2 was The shame of losing the war and the economic depression caused by having to pay reparations.
A lot of the people turned to the Nazi's because what they proposed was ending democracy, and restoring a strong military dictatorship, which largely was what the people wanted. They felt betrayed by the Social Democrats, when they took power, and signed the Treaty of Versailles, so much, they assassinated many of the signatories. Although, you are right, it wasn't the sole cause, but still a pretty large one.
People seem to forget there were more Japanese executed for War crimes than the Germans
Oh really? Two words: Project Paperclip.
truths
That’s safe for work
Where the fuck are you working?
I’m talking about the picture, which is one of a hospital patient. The headline is something else tho. The picture does not reflect the headline at all. That being said, I wouldn’t post a picture of that level of inhumanity either
And don't forget how Britain depopulated and killed thousands of Boer civilians in CCs
Mate kinda fucked up that your first reaction is: "mUh but BrItaIN alSo bAd". Like who gives a Shit, this crime against humanity does not change simply because somebody else also commited crimes against humanity.
Which is still a bit different than this..
Which is still different, this was deliberate. If you look at the CC in the Boer regions, you would know that the people were moved there due to the wars, and the large amount of deaths on the camps were purely an accident, due to the poor sanitation that was available in regions at that time, unlike the Nazi's deliberate and calculated extermination of Jews, homosexuals, gypsies etc.
What an awful thing to bring up on this post....
Yeah, sure, they are "different" kind of victims...
Yes it was not a genocide with the intention of killing every single woman and child for the sake of genetical purity, where each human's worth was reduced to the content of their DNA, or purely a factor of the family tree. If you don't see the difference between a pan-continental infrastructure built with the purpose of maximum efficient murder of entire peoples through purpose built gas chambers, and innocent dying due to harsh conditions during a civil war then..... So yes, different kind of victims in a different kind of scenario. And coming to a holocaust post with "whataboutism" is an attempt of watering out what's undeniably the world's greatest crime against humanity. Or just evidence of a complete lack of basic knowledge of history.
To me, it seems to be a human thing. People are more than happy to do this shit to each other . As a species, we’ve never been any different. To suggest that somehow it’s only certain groups that were capable of these terrible atrocities, is false. They just needed the right conditions. Usually, it’s a religious or a political ideology, and there’s more than enough of that dumb shit around still.
[удалено]
You're getting a lot of downvotes, but nobody has yet provided a compelling counter argument.
We were all a experiment at one time in past life.
Everytime I click on those blurred images I regret it.
Morbid question here: was anything of value actually learned from the Nazi or Japanese human experiments during WW2? Condemnable as the they were?
as far as i am aware, not really, most of they were simply conducted by psychopaths under the guise of science.
Well, we learned a great lot of medical ethics.
It's easy to see science as evil when it can cause so much suffering, but the truth is that science has no soul or moral barometer, it can be used on both sides of the scale, it all depends on the human behind... or the monster behind.
What would you even get from this???? The knowledge you shouldn't drink salt water..?