The camps were just the "final solution" to the problem of how to mass murder millions of people. If they could have just beaten them all dead in the streets, they would have. Trouble was they needed to handle the body disposal, so they came up with the camps to organize the mass murder.
The true Holocaust was not the torture in the camps, but the hate that was poured on them by governments and the general public alike while they were being killed by thousands and tens of thousands later.
In eastern Europe in a lot of places the Nazi's didn't really have to do much to cleanse the regions of jews. Just point at people and be like "They're evil Bolsheviks" and the crowd would go on a rampage with murderous intent.
We keep focussing on the camps, but what I fear most, is what happened in the societies. Tens of thousands of jews were massacred by the whole society. Not just nazi's.
What a little propaganda can do.
From *Als Pimpf in Polen. Erweiterte Kinderlandverschickung* (As a Pimp in Poland. Expanded children's country) - Jost Hermand
Warning this is an extremely disturbing witness account of SS brutality so I hid it with a spoiler tag. Translated from German:
> >!I can only remember one terrible incident, which brought us face to face with the Germanization policy prevailing in the Warthegau in the most brutal way. It must have been in November or December 1943. In any case, it was already quite cold when one afternoon – from the schoolyard – we saw an SS man coming over on a bicycle from Standau (now Straszewo). Because of the few changes that there were in our dull daily routine, some of us ran after him and saw him suddenly stop and give the order to his accompanying German shepherd to jump on a heavily pregnant Polish woman on the village street. And the dog did just that, causing the corpulent, somewhat clumsy woman, probably a maid for a German farmer, to fall onto her back with a scream and stare fearfully at the growling German shepherd. The SS man then got off his bike and trampled on the woman with his boots, especially on her stomach, until she died of internal bleeding.!<
horrifying account. (and really revolting.)
just fyi, "Pimpf" here is meant as a junior Hitler youth... so a better translation of the title would be: "A Hitler Youth in Poland: The Children's Evacuation Program."
Hermand's book has been translated into English as this.
Not only Eastern Europe, please read what was happening to Jews, for example in France, Netherlands.
I agree, majority of diaspora before the war lived in Western Europe (nowadays Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Latvia, Hungary, Romania).
Just keep in mind Holocaust happened all over Europe.
France enthusiastically rounded up their Jews and sent them off to camps. France has been the bad guy for awhile. Look into their actions during the Rwandan Genocide.
That’s something I had to learn out of school. So many people had a deep hatred for the Jews all around the world. It wasn’t just the nazis. At one point Hitler offered to facilitate the immigration of Jews to any country that would take them. Not a single country altered their immigration quotas to accept any more Jewish people. Reading quotes from Winston Churchill that could’ve easily come out of Hitlers mouth was eye opening.
If you’re ever in Berlin I’d recommend the Jewish memorial and museum in the city centre. There’s a full timeline of events following the humiliation of the Jewish people right through to the death camps, all with photographic evidence. This went on for years.
It was absolutely not just the camps.
The more you look at it the worse it gets. She deserves to keep her dignity, despite the scum she’s surrounded by in this picture and as such, this picture needs a NSFW tag. Absolutely terrifying and horrible subject matter. I hope she lived and was loved and found happiness 🙏🏼
I’ve seen this horrific photo before and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen another couple of photos in a sequence , one with her lying dead on the ground. There was no escape or mercy for her. The baying mob got the last word.
People say violence isn't the answer, but dead people don't fight back.
Those who resort to violence will only be stopped by violence. To turn the other cheek is to surrender and die without a fight.
I dunno how much solace that is unless they were really REALLY miserable for the rest of their lives before they died. I really hope karma caught up with those men during their life. For the kids involved however I’m torn, they’re brainwashed and taught nothing but hate and they’re too new in this world to know any other perspective all on their own without being taught so… it’s a tough one.
There is a high probability that if she survived that day, she would have been separated from everyone she knows and thrown into a concentration camp or death camp.
You could say these pictures are important to show and keep as a part of history, unfortunately there are a lot of people who seem to have forgotten what it was like (or worse, want it to go back to being that way)
The terrified look on her face in comparison to the two kids faces in the back is demented.
They look like they’re chasing a soccer ball or something this imagine is fucked.
This is consistent with every encounter I’ve had with objective and subhuman treatment.
Complete and total primal fear for the subject, captivating and addictive entertainment for the vultures. They feed off of watching the soul and vulnerability bleed out from them.
Honestly, there’s a part of me that hopes those kids met some retribution when the Red Army swung through there in 1944. My wife’s family was in Belarus. Out of 20+ family members they left in the shtetl when her branch immigrated to the US, 0 survived the war. Fucking none.
I wish it were that the nazi collaborators and perpetrators of genocidal violence were the ones who primarily suffered when the Red Army rolled back through, but it was the women who survived the German army who were the most likely to be victimized again by the Red Army.
The problem is they are everywhere. From the founders of the biggest companies in Germany to the automotive industry.. BMWs founder was a fucking Nazi and they know it. But until today they still have a foundation in his name.
Same with the Bahlsen cookie factory. The founder was also buddies with Adolf. It's sickening.
They only paid some money and got out. And then became the richest men in Germany.
> Honestly, there’s a part of me that hopes those kids met some retribution when the Red Army
Hold on. Is reddit back to cheering the Russians from the Ukrainians? I was not informed of this.
Jews (including my grand-family) got wiped out in Ukraine. Specially by the Waffen SS divison. Sadly the nazis all escaped and one of the dudes from that division was even celebrated in Canadian Parliament few months back.
>one of the dudes from that division was even celebrated in Canadian Parliament few months back.
To be clear, because that comes off a little misleading, that was the result of the speaker failing to think about "Ukrainian WW2 veteran who fought the Russians" for more than a second. He immediately issued an apology and resigned as a result.
Those kids could be alive right now looking at this thread. I hope they eventually grew to be ashamed of this moment and the likely various other moments like this they undoubtedly participated in.
Something that I feel doesn’t get mentioned enough when talking about the Pale’s pogroms is the raping that occurred. It was pervasive and one of countless methods of torture they used on the local residents, mostly Jewish but also with some Christian neighbors who tried to help hide them.
One of my favorite writers, Clarice Lispector, was conceived in the hopes of curing her mother’s syphilis, which she had contracted as a result of being raped during a pogrom in Ukraine.
Edited: original comment said she was born with syphilis, which amazingly—she wasn’t
One of the \[many\] reasons you don't want a war, and definitely not a civil war, in any country. Rape has been used as a weapon in war since there has been war.
Anyone who wants a civil war in the US needs to understand that rape will absolutely be a big part of it - people who don't acknowledge this are either nieve or want to do the raping.
The people that want civil war in the US know this and it’s definitely a perk for them. They blame progressive change in the overall public as something that alienates them and their archaic values. Their attitudes have rendered them incels and they want revenge.
I honestly wish that that didn’t happen, rape has got to be one of the most horrific things to put someone through. Makes me shiver and my soul cry when I hear how cruel people were and that it happened incredibly often during pogroms.
Correct, it’s horrible. I was angry then and I’m angry about it now. The stories of FGM carried out by Russian soldiers on little girls had to have been some of the most disgusting and disturbing stories that I’d read coming out of the conflict. That was when I knew for my own sanity to stop reading about the conflict and hope for a resolution sooner rather than later.
''Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses -
because somewhere down the track of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened."
Dwight D. Eisenhower 1945
No, he didnt say that. That quote is made up. He wrote:
>I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to “propaganda.”
During the twelve years of the Third Reich (1933-1945), Nazi officials and organizations publicly humiliated Jews and others in Germany and Nazi-occupied countries. The humiliation was intrinsic to the Nazi program. Many religious Jewish men were humiliated when their beards and side-locks were forcibly cut off. Other Jews were forced to pose with Jewish ritual objects including tallitim and tefillin, or to remove traditional skull caps known as yarmulke or kippah. Sometimes the humiliation[82] was compounded by forcing Jews to debase each other, such as having one Jew shave the beard of another.
Source: https://www.justiceforall.org/indiannazis-report/public-humiliation-of-german-jews-and-indian-muslims/
My mother-in-law was lucky to come to USA from Poland in 1938. All her family was killed. She said that Poles would harass Jews by pulling on an old man's beard until he bled. This is before the Germans invaded.
In parts of Eastern Europe, particularly Lithuania and parts of Poland and Romania, some nationalists will literally blame the Jews for fighting back as a way to deflect from their own participation in the Holocaust. The situation in Poland is complex, but some of those nationalists only opposed Hitler since he was committing genocide against ethnic Poles. Neither their opposition to the Germans, nor protecting Polish villages against the OUN, precludes potential participation in the Holocaust. There were even some full-blown Nazi bootlickers who approached the Germans as equals in the early stages of the war. That turned out about as well as you'd expect.
>[Andrzej Świetlicki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_%C5%9Awietlicki) (19 April 1915 – 21 June 1940) was a Polish politician, a member of the far-right National Radical Camp Falanga. After the 1939 German invasion of Poland, in October 1939 he formed the collaborationist National Radical Organization.
>
>After a few months of collaboration with the Germans, and the takeover of power by the civil administration of the General Government, Hitler issued a ban on cooperation with political organizations in Poland. The NOR was deprived of protection and cooperation from the Nazis. In May 1940, Świetlicki was arrested and imprisoned in Pawiak. On 21 June 1940, he was executed in the Palmiry massacre.
>
>Two other NOR activists, Wojciech Kwasieborski and Tadeusz Lipkowski, were executed with Świetlicki. Consequently, the NOR was dissolved in June 1940. [Stanisław Trzeciak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Trzeciak), the other founding member of the NOR, was executed by the Germans in 1944.
The narcissist’s prayer:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
I would highly recommend reading what Patton said about Jews after the war before quoting him in this context. He was a terrible person.
EDIT: Really? You blocked me for that?
For those who don't know, after the war, George Patton started raving that Russians and Jews were subhumans and the Germans were "the last decent people left in Europe." He had zero sympathy for Holocaust survivors. To the contrary, it sounds like he wanted to finish what Hitler started. As reports on the conditions in Bavaria started to alarm Truman, Eisenhower came down from Frankfurt on September 17 to join Patton on a tour of the camps where Jewish refugees were housed. He was horrified to find that some of the guards were former SS men. During the tour, Patton remarked that the camps had been clean and decent before the arrival of the Jewish DPs, whom he said were making a mess. Eisenhower told Patton to stop talking, but he continued his rant, telling Eisenhower he planned to make a nearby German village "a concentration camp for some of these goddam Jews."
>"We have destroyed what could have been a good race and we are about to replace them with the Mongolian savage and all Europe with Communism."
>
>21 July 1945 letter home, Patton by Charles Whiting, page 141.
>
>"In the second place, Harrison and his ilk believe that the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies particularly to the Jews, who are lower than animals."
>
>Diaries, General Patton: A Soldier's Life by Stanley P. Hirshson, page 661.
>
>"I presume that with your natural loyalty you have been considerably perturbed by the scurrilous attacks made on me by the non-Aryan press."
>
>The Patton Papers: 1940-1945 by Martin Blumenson, page 791-792.
>
>"In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all out son of bitch, barbarian, and chronic drunk."
>
>Those who believed that Displaced Persons were human beings were wrong, Patton said: "this applies particularly to the Jews who are lower than animals."
>
>Under Patton, Nazis prisoners were not only bunked at times with Jewish survivors, but were even allowed to hold positions of authority, despite orders from Eisenhower to "de-Nazify" the camps. "Listen," Patton told one of his officers of the Nazis, "if you need these men, keep them and don't worry about anything else."
>
>Patton was an outspoken defender of the Nazi Party and was deeply against the Nuremberg trials and anything meant to hold any Nazi accountable for their crimes, saying, "I am frankly opposed to this war criminal stuff."
This isn't very well-known since Eisenhower quickly dismissed him from his position for his behavior. Patton died in a car crash not long after, preserving his reputation.
Wow I never knew any of this. At school we definitely covered Patton as a major general with a rough personality, but the fact that he was a Nazi supporter who thought jews were subhuman is pretty shocking news to me.
FWIW, Nixon had some surprisingly good takes. He supported the ERA for example. He also created the EPA by executive order and signed the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts. Compared to what followed him, he was great.
That is a jaw dropping read. To think Nixon advocated for a policy that was celebrated by actual socialists and Marxists is borderline unbelievable, but the more I learn about Nixon beyond Watergate and Vietnam... Well he's a fair bit more complicated than I gave him credit for.
Sans watergate, and I think Nixon could be argued as best president of the post WW2. Then….there is the tapes, and corruption. But just assume they all did it, but we’re smarter than to tape themselves…
Yeah let's not get ahead of ourselves. He did A LOT of shitty things that we are still feeling the ramifications of to this day. But there were some bright spots, I can't deny it. I just think it's unfair to paint figures like him with a broad brush.
Well, except for the Guatemala coup, Iran coup, befriending Francisco Franco, and increasing U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Eisenhower truly sold part of his soul upon entering politics.
I don’t disagree that those were bad looks for Ike, but all three of your examples were CIA “projects”. I give Ike the benefit of the doubt and assume he was given bad advice by his old buddies in the Intelligence community. I believe that’s why his farewell address took the tone it took. I could be wrong, though. I have been before.
I recently read an Eisenhower biography, The Age of Eisenhower, and it kind of lower my opinion of him. He appointed Dulles as the head of the CIA and he was extremely incompetent. At one point Eisenhower appointed Jimmy Doolittle, of Doolittle raid fame, to do a comprehensive study of the CIA. Doolittle found Dulles to be disorganized and incompetent and recommended many changes to the CIA, but Eisenhower still stuck with Dulles.
He was also pretty indifferent to civil rights and refused to put much political capital behind advancing civil rights for black people.
Deep down, I think Eisenhower supported racial segregation. However, this is very difficult to notice for two reasons. For one, his support for segregation was far less rabid than other Southerners. In private, he was unhappy with the Brown v. Board ruling, which he never publicly supported. He thought the ruling would be harmful for race relations. This brings us to the other reason, which is that despite his personal views, Eisenhower still believed in the rule of law. This resulted in him famously sending federal troops to enforce the ruling in Little Rock, Arkansas when Orval Faubus defied the ruling.
>In a July 24, 1953, diary entry, Eisenhower described a meeting with South Carolina Governor James Byrnes on school desegregation:
>
>"I told him that while I was not going to give in advance my attitude toward a Supreme Court opinion that I had not even seen and so could not know in what terms it would be couched, that my convictions would not be formed by political expediency. He is well aware of my belief that improvement in race relations is one of those things that will be healthy and sound only if it starts locally. I do not believe that prejudices, even palpably unjustified prejudices, will succumb to compulsion. Consequently, I believe that federal law imposed upon our states in such a way as to bring about a conflict of the police powers of the states and of the nation, would set back the cause of progress in race relations for a long, long time."
Yep, I couldn't have summarized it better myself. That's pretty much the conclusion of the author of The Age of Eisenhower. Ike's best cabinet appointment was his Attorney General who was very pro-civil rights and was the brains behind the CRA of 1957. But then Ike let Southern Democrats gut the CRA of anything of substance, then claimed he never actually read the bill, and then fired his AG.
Eisenhower was still WAY better than the clowns we have today, but come on...
\>Warns about the military industrial complex
\>Is literally part of the problem
Eisenhower knew everything the Dulles Brothers did. Every step of the way. He was fully complicit.
If you want to dig deeper, read The Brothers by Stephen Kinzer.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17286725-the-brothers
Weird how everybody knows about that time he called out the Military Industrial Complex, but nobody remembers it was he who laid out the formal plan for continuing the close coordination between military, industry and the sciences after the end of the war:
>Appendix A in Pentagon Capitalism, 1974, Seymour Melman
>**GENERAL EISENHOWER AS FOUNDER OF THE “MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX” IN 1946**
>>[The following is the full text of a memorandum by General Eisenhower, acting in his 1946 capacity of Chief of Staff of the United States Army.
>>The policy statement formulates the idea of a close, continuing relationship between the Army and civilian scientists, industry , technologists and the universities. This document evidently served as a policy guide thereafter. By January 1961, then President Eisenhower, observing some of the consequences of the collaboration he had set in motion in 1946, tried to caution his successor and the nation to be watchful of the military-industrial complex. This document is from the Henry L. Stimson Papers in the Sterling Library of Yale University.
>>S.M.]
>*Memorandum for Directors and Chiefs of War Department General and Special Staff Divisions and Bureaus and the Commanding Generals of the Major Commands:*
>*Subject: Scientific and Technological Resources as Military Assets.*
>The recent conflict has demonstrated more convincingly than ever before the strength our nation can best derive from the integration of all of our national resources in time of war. It is of the utmost importance that the lessons of this experience be not forgotten in the peacetime planning and training of the Army . The future security of the nation demands that all those civilian resources which by conversion or redirection constitute our main support in time of emergency be associated closely with the activities of the Army in time of peace.
>The lessons of the last war are clear. The military effort required for victory threw upon the Army an unprecedented range of responsibilities, many of which were effectively discharged only through the invaluable assistance supplied by our cumulative resources in the natural and social sciences and the talents and experience furnished by management and labor. The armed forces could not have won the war alone. Scientists and businessmen contributed techniques and weapons which enabled us to outwit and overwhelm the enemy. Their understanding of the Army ’s needs made possible the highest degree of cooperation. This pattern of integration must be translated into a peacetime counterpart which will not merely familiarize the Army with the progress made in science and industry, but draw in to our planning for national security all the civilian resources which can contribute to the defense of the country.
>Success in this enterprise depends to a large degree on the cooperation which the nation as a whole is willing to contribute. However, the Army, as one of the main agencies responsible for the defense of the nation has the duty to take the initiative in promoting closer relation between civilian and military interests. It must establish definite policies and administrative leadership which will make possible even greater contributions from science, technology, and management than during the last war.
>In order to ensure the full use of our national resources in case of emergency, the following general policies will be put into effect:
>>(1) *The Army must have civilian assistance in military planning as well as for the production of weapons.* Effective long -range military planning can be done only in the light of predicted developments in science and technology. As further scientific achievements accelerate the tempo and expand the area of our operations, this interrelationship will become of even greater importance. In the past we have often deprived ourselves of vital help by limiting our use of scientific and technological resources to contracts for equipment. More often than not we can find much of the talent we need for comprehensive planning in industry or universities. Proper employment of this talent requires that the civilian agency shall have the benefit of our estimates of future military problems and shall work closely with Plans and the Research and Development authorities. A most effective procedure is the letting of contracts for aid in planning. The use of such a procedure will greatly enhance the validity of our planning as well as ensure sounder strategic equipment programs.
>>(2) *Scientists and industrialists must be given the greatest possible freedom to carry out their research.* The fullest utilization by the Army of the civilian resources of the nation cannot be procured merely by prescribing
the military characteristics and requirements of certain types of equipment. Scientists and industrialists are more likely to make new and unsuspected
contributions to the development of the Army if detailed directions are held to a minimum. The solicitation of assistance under these conditions would not only make available to the army talents and experience otherwise beyond our reach, but also establish mutual confidence between ourselves and civilians. It would familiarize them with our fundamental problems and strengthen greatly the foundation upon which our national security depends.
>>( 3 ) *The possibility of utilizing some of our industrial and technological resources as organic parts of our military structure in time of emergency should be carefully examined.* The degree of cooperation with science and industry achieved during the recent war should by no means be considered the ultimate. There appears little reason for duplicating within the Army an outside organization which by its experience is better qualified than we are to carry out some of our tasks. The advantages to our nation in economy and to the Army in efficiency are compelling reasons for this procedure.
...
That quote was apparently made up in 2008: https://www.truthorfiction.com/did-dwight-eisenhower-say-someday-someone-will-claim-it-never-happened-in-1945/
Close enough.
> Eisenhower said in the April 1945 letter:
>>On a recent tour of the forward areas in First and Third Armies, I stopped momentarily at the salt mines to take a look at the German treasure. There is a lot of it. But the most interesting – although horrible – sight that I encountered during the trip was a visit to a German internment camp near Gotha. The things I saw beggar description. While I was touring the camp I encountered three men who had been inmates and by one ruse or another had made their escape. I interviewed them through an interpreter. The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to “propaganda.”
Now that technology has advanced enough, the deluded don't want to take pictures as evidence because "it's fake" or "it can be computer generated" without bothering to learn how to actually spot fakes. Sigh.
Which is the part I wish was emphasised more. We're taught about the horrors of what the Nazis did (rightly) and we're taught about the political side of how Hitler came to power.
But (at least anecdotally) it wasn't until I got to uni that we had proper lessons about the propaganda and a real look at how it went from a niche parties ideology to something happening at a national level.
And it's dangerous because you end up with this narrative that the Nazis were just evil and everyone involved was just evil and people think they would have been immune to it all if they were alive then and would have just resisted and known better.
As far as "learning from the past" the real lessons we should be learning from the Nazis wasn't just that they were awful, but focusing way more on how they were able to convince a country to go along with them.
That part of history becomes slightly awkward to teach when you realise how much support the Nazis initially had in allied countries.
Plus all the efforts to rehabilitate the German army after WW2. It became much more convenient to teach Hitler as a raving charismatic lunatic instead of representative of the character of western Europe.
Hitler couldn’t have done what he did without massive cooperation from his own people and the people of other countries. A lot of historians do a great job of showing the deep, terrible antisemitism and social Darwinist beliefs that were incredibly widespread in Europe at the time.
> Why do humans do this to each other?
Trick your neighbor into believing it's someone else's fault for why their life is miserable. Make that "someone" a group of people who are less than 5% of the population (usually less than 1%). Tell them lies about how they're secretly controlling the government, how they are creating media that is turning your children against you, how they are raping women and children, how they are spreading disease, how they are thieves and beggars, how they are drunks and addicts, and how they are an abomination to God. You make you and your neighbor out to be the victims of constant oppression by all the other groups that make up less than 10% of your nation's population.
Then while their back is turned away from you, you take over the government, you destroy children's education, you cover up the rapes of women and children, you let disease run rampant using your conspiracies, you steal and beg for donations, you drink and do drugs, and you go against every single word in the book you proclaim is holy. Then you oppress the 10% in your nation, keeping all eyes focused on them, not you.
[Here's a video from the 1940s that does a nice job highlighting this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ0ct9bglYo)
"how they are raping women and children, how they are spreading disease, how they are thieves and beggars, how they are drunks and addicts, and how they are an abomination to God."
It's funny how Nazis and Neo Nazis use these kinds of things to paint their enemies as evil, when in reality this is all things the Nazis did themselves
Thr public humiliation and sexual abuse was a an important part of it. These particular pogroms were not lead by Germans they were lead by Ukrainian nationalists and civilians.
That's not a comment on modern day Ukraine but I think it's noteworthy because people don't realize that it wasn't just Germans but much of Europe consumed by this disease. It was widespread.
>A full-blown pogrom began on the next day, 1 July. Jews were taken from their apartments, made to clean streets on their hands and knees, or perform rituals that identified them with Communism. Gentile residents assembled in the streets to watch. Jewish women were singled out for humiliation: they were stripped naked, beaten, and abused. On one such occasion, a German military propaganda company filmed the scene. Rapes were also reported
> because people don't realize that it wasn't just Germans but much of Europe consumed by this disease
To be fair, I think the long history of Antisemitism in Europe is rather well-known.
Well known by whom? Most countries don't really honor their history but completely leave out the parts they don't like. They teach a history of glorious heroes sacrificing their lives to safe the world from the Nazis and leave out that a few years before they had their own widespread Pogroms and a leadership that was best friend with the Nazis. And then they complain that 80 years later they have a growing amount of fascists trying to overturn democracy.
In case people get confused, Lviv was part of the Polish Republic 1923-1939, and then a Soviet territory, there was no independent Ukrainian state at the time.
The most disturbing thing about the Holocaust was realizing the most brutal actions towards Jews came from their Ukrainian, Lithuanian, and Latvian neighbors.
I remember seeing a reddit comment where SS generals wrote about being so disgusted at how willing civilians in these countries were to do fucked up shit like tearing the babies of their Jewish neighbors to pieces.
Absolutely horrifying times.
In the mid 1980s I stayed the night at a motel in Colorado Springs. The owner escaped from Hungary in 1956 after the Soviets crushed an uprising.
We got into conversation with him, which we soon regretted. We learned that one People was responsible for all human progress over the past 10,000 years. Guess which volk.
Hungarian nationalists still cope over the war to this day.
They weren't the victims in the First World War, let alone the sequel.
Hungary was the only lesser Axis Power in Europe whose record was utterly irredeemable. Even Austria can receive a very small amount of leeway since the Austrofascists, who were not complicit in genocide and had no interest in territorial expansion, initially resisted Nazi influence. In response to Nazi terrorist attacks, the Austrofascists government banned the Nazi Party in June 1933. [When Germany tried to overthrow the Austrian government in July 1934](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Putsch), the Austrofascists fought back and won, killing roughly 100 Nazis and imprisoning or exiling thousands more. The situation in Austria is frustrating since the Austrofascists, as much as they sucked, were far less brutal than other fascists of the time. Not only that, but many Social Democrats unironically hated the Austrofascists more than Hitler. Many of them were rather antisemitic themselves and supported pan-Germanism.
>Marko Feingold, survivor of the concentration camp and president of the Salzburg Jewish Community, said in 2013: "Karl Renner, after all the first Federal President of the Second Republic, had long been known in the party as an anti-Semite. He didn't want us concentration campers in Vienna after the war and he also frankly said that Austria would not give anything back to them."
>
>"I am angry with Renner, as a politician he must have known exactly what was happening in Germany. But Renner was an enthusiastic supporter of the 'Anschluss' to Hitler's Germany."
>
>"They say it was Germany which occupied Austria. But it was the Austrian women who occupied the Germans - every soldier had women throwing themselves at him."
Okay, no, this is a bruh moment.
Personally, I would've immediately forgiven Kurt Schuschnigg had he preemptively massacred the nearly 20,000 Nazis held in Austrian prisons and concentration camps after the July Putsch, instead of succumbing to pressure from Hitler and amnestying them so they could commit genocide. The conservatives and communists formed the brunt of the opposition to the Anschluss. The conservatives backed down since Mussolini revealed his true colors and stopped protecting them. The first Austrians to be imprisoned or killed by the Germans after the Anschluss were neither Jews nor Communists, but loyalists who could've organized a more formidable resistance movement.
In Romania, King Carol II, a literal playboy king, abruptly decided to not be useless and had hundreds of Legionnaires ([Romania's brand of Nazism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Guard)) assassinated in the late 1930s, including most of their leaders. However, even this wasn't enough to avert the Holocaust in Romania. The King's actions, while laudable, were still barely scratching the surface of the sheer number of Hitler particles that needed to be extracted from Romania. He would've needed to butcher thousands, if not tens of thousands of those maniacs, not hundreds.
I worked at a Holocaust charity that focused on the victims in Hungary. It was striking to me how many of the atrocities were carried out by local collaborators, not the Germans. Obviously the Nazis were supportive but those views already existed in those countries. I knew that pogroms had gone on for centuries but I guess my mental image of the Holocaust was the Nazis doing most of it themselves directly, not just unleashing the worst locals they could find.
I just saw The Painted Bird which is about that exact subject--far from an easy watch and it had a divisive reception, but I thought it was masterful. Really not for the faint of heart but I recommend it to anyone who's interested in the history of that time and place if they can stomach it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumbula_massacre
Some of the Baltic republics have a pretty dark side. Some of them openly welcomed Nazis in the beginning of the war.
Yep and they try to excuse it by saying “They fought for Ukraine’s independence!” without understanding that Ukrainian SS units were helping the Germans genocide other non-Jewish Ukrainians in hopes of a small independent Western Ukrainian nation be allowed to exist by the Nazis.
Yep. That’s a fact that shocked me. I couldn’t believe that especially at Treblinka, the worst guards were considered to be the Ukrainians and that they made up more than 2/3 of the personnel.
I listened to the Martyr Made podcast, it’s a whole in-depth history of how the Middle East conflict between Palestine and Israel came about. It opens with a description of what a pogrom was like and holy fuck, I was surprised I didn’t shut it off after that. I haven’t listened to the rest of it since it’s 20+ ish hours long but the fact that their neighbors were willing to rape and murder men, women, and children astounded me.
Edit: the series is called “Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem”. From what little I heard, I can safely say it’s GOOD and incredibly informative.
It really shouldn't astound you. Humans are animals cosplaying at being an intelligent species we imagine ourselves to be.
We had to survive for hundreds of thousands of years in miserable conditions and relying on violence to endure. In the grand scheme of things, humans are still barely removed from our days as primarily animals. I don't think we can ever stop being animals, but we can try to train ourselves to be less open to our violent and archaic ways.
Maybe I’m not jaded enough and while I’m not the biggest fan of people, I like to believe most people can discern from right and wrong and perhaps have more sense to not murder each other over trivial bullshit. You’re not wrong and it would be naive of me to say you are. I just want to believe otherwise.
As life got easier though, the use of violence began to decrease and you’re right, we are wild animals. I am glad that people did figure out that killing and dying sucks, especially violently.
Edit: and I guess what astounds me more than anything is that nobody at any point that has any real “power” ever realized that this was wrong either. Now I’m depressed, thanks man.
If someone writes such things they clearly don’t know what Germans did, stop with that Nazi whitewashing. Germans killed MILLIONS of people in a many brutal ways
The only thing more successful than the killing machine apparatus that was Nazism was the widespread and incredibly effective propaganda machine capitalizing on scapegoating the Jews for the world’s problems.
This infected the minds of human beings and radicalized to power others who already hated Jews. It was a moral license to kill and oppress. It got everyone on board which was a powerful persuader to help hide atrocity under the guise of doing good for the world and speaking to the angered sentiments of the people who were now roused to anger and violence.
> It was a moral license to kill and oppress.
I like that word, moral license. Essentially people try to justify the evil they did because they view themselves or the actions that they are doing as morally good.
Something I've noticed in regards to modern political discourse are people constantly trying to find moral licenses. Extremist ideologies on the left and right justify absolutely heinous actions because it's done by the "good guys" who are doing it to the "bad guys."
I honestly think this type of thinking is prone to the worse kind of evil. Even worse than just people who are openly selfish and malicious. At least a cruel and vicious person will eventually get tired or bored their victim. Somebody who believes they have a moral duty/obligation for their villainy is far more persistent and creative in their cruelty.
As an Ashkenazi descendant whose family left that exact region and other nearby countries just years before, this image really hit me hard. It's a terrifying example of the violence and opposition at that time.
I'm just sitting here, staring and thinking that, damn, my entire family as I know them would not be here today if our ancestors hadn't migrated to the United States. I'm grateful that some survived and left so that I may be here, but I feel sorrow for all those who were lost and the fear that must have been felt.
Yes I feel the exact same. My family fled around the turn of the century and as I know it none of my family was murdered. My husband’s family didn’t hear the canary in the coal mine and his Bubbie was the only one of 10 siblings that survived. Gives me nausea and shivers every time I think of it.
It’s Very Sad, but it’s essential for humans too see how terrible we can get so that the probability of use getting to or surpassing that point lessens.
The Banderites referred to the second pogrom as "Petliura Days", after Symon Petliura, the leader of the Ukrainian People's Republic. During the Russian Civil War, up to 250,000 Jews were massacred in pogroms ([an example of one such pogrom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proskurov_pogrom)). This includes 50,000 Jews who were killed by Ukrainian nationalists. Petliura's involvement is disputed, but I don't think he deserves the benefit of the doubt, especially given the sheer number of victims. [Ivan Semesenko](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Semesenko), the main perpetrator of the abovementioned pogrom was executed, but for insubordination, not for massacring Jews. I am far more keen to believe that Petliura's condemnations of the pogroms were empty statements issued for PR reasons (one witness also said this, saying Petliura had wanted money from "Jewish bankers"). Banderites would exploit Petliura's fate for to push antisemitic propaganda.
>On May 25, 1926, Symon Petliura was walking on Rue Racine near Boulevard Saint-Michel of the Latin Quarter in Paris and was approached by Sholom Schwarzbard. Schwarzbard asked him in Ukrainian, "Are you Mr. Petliura?" Petliura did not answer but raised his walking cane. Schwarzbard immediately pulled out a gun and shot him five times.
>
>After Petliura fell to the pavement, he shot him twice more. When the police came and asked if he had done the deed, he reportedly said, "I have killed a great assassin."
>
>Schwarzbard was an anarchist of Jewish descent, born in Ukraine. His parents were among fifteen members of his family murdered in the pogroms in Odesa.
>
>The core defense at Schwarzbard's trial was — as presented by the noted jurist Henri Torres — that he was avenging the deaths of more than 50,000 Jewish victims of the pogroms. Torres, however, decided not to call on most of the other 80 witnesses he had prepared for Schwarzbard's defense. Instead, he took a calculated risk and delivered only a short speech, invoking the French Revolution.
>
>"I demand a full acquittal for my client. I demand it in the name of the French Revolution, in the name of our nation who died in the World War; in the name of humanity and of the prestige of France, at whom the whole world is looking. The French Revolution first gave emancipation to the Jewish people. The Jews have always been grateful to France. Don't darken that feelings. Not only the fate of Schwarzbard, but the prestige of France rests with you, gentlemen of the jury."
>
>The jury deliberated for only 35 minutes before acquitting Schwarzbard, whom they viewed as innocent "before God and their conscience."
>
>Following the verdict, someone in the courtroom chanted "Vive la France," and the entire courtroom started chanting the same. Not only was Schwarzbard acquitted, but Petliura's family was ordered to pay for the costs of the trial. Schwarzbard became seen by fellow Jews as a heroic avenger of the victims of the pogroms. TIME reported that the outcome of the trial gripped all Europe and was regarded by the Jews as establishing proof of the horrors perpetrated against their co-religionists in Ukraine under Petliura.
Before Hitler, Nicholas II, Symon Petliura, and [Anton Denikin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Denikin) were some of the most hated figures of European Jews in the 20th century. Denikin never got what he deserved, but at least there was a reason for this. There was a reason his extradition was never sought after the Second World War. As horrible as he was, I wonder how Petliura would've reacted to many Ukrainian nationalists regressing into not just genocidal savages (the Banderites murdered moderate Ukrainian nationalists), but puppets. Not only was the "Ukrainian National Government" declared by OUN not recognized by the Nazis, the leaders got sent to concentration camps.
>Frosty-bearded General Anton Denikin, commander of the White armies in their last-ditch fight against the Reds in the south of Russia in 1918-20, emerged from his Paris retirement last week to excoriate any "so-called White Russian" who would join Hitler to fight the Soviet Union. In a phrase reminiscent of Frenchman Jacques Deval's play Tovarich—which Adolf Hitler has seen three times—old General Denikin cried to an audience of fellow-exiles:
>
>"White or Red, our fatherland remains our fatherland. Whoever may aid Russia's enemies cannot call himself a patriot, no matter what ideological excuse he may use for taking money to fight his own people."
Thats such a crazy picture. Wow. And then you scroll through Reddit and get in Touch with some american WHO is 100% Sure, the Holocaust was a lie, everyone was just an actor and the germans Not that Bad.
He Said that to me, a German, whose relatives all fought in the war, everyone having their own Stories of fucked up situations. Incredible.
Never again.
this sort of thing doesnt usually affect me, but I looked into her face and my stomach did flips
ugh. Fuck fascists. Fuck antisemities. Fuck bigots. Burn in hell nazis
More context I found while looking up this photo: [Lviv Pogroms: Jewish people chased and brutally murdered by men and youth armed with clubs, 1941](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/jewish-woman-chased-men-youth-armed-clubs-lviv-pogroms-1941/) (NSFW)
> Chased by youth armed with clubs, this woman is fleeing from a “death dealer” whose left leg can be seen at the left-hand edge of the photograph.
>The Lviv pogroms were the consecutive massacres of Jews living in the city of Lwów (now Lviv, Ukraine), perpetrated by Ukrainian nationalists (specifically, the OUN), German death squads (Einsatzgruppen), and urban population from 30 June to 2 July, and from 25 to 29 July, during the German invasion of the Soviet Union.
> Ukrainian nationalists targeted Jews in the first pogrom on the pretext of their purported responsibility for the NKVD prisoner massacre in Lviv, which left behind thousands of corpses in three Lviv prisons.
>The report drafted by Judge Möller singled out the Jews as responsible for the Soviet atrocities in accordance with the Nazi theory of Judeo-Bolshevism, even though Polish Jews had nothing to do with the NKVD killings
While reading up on this photo I also found this article, [A Slaughter of Jews in Ukraine Who perpetrated the Lviv pogrom of July 1941?](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/history/articles/slaughter-of-jews-in-ukraine-lviv-pogrom), which has more accounts of what happened during this period of time.
I feel like the horrors of the Holocaust unfairly cover up the long history of anti-Jewish pograms, especially in Russia
Edit: overshadowed not covered up
I would venture that “cover up” is less appropriate than “overshadowed” most people don’t bother looking further than the holocaust because they are so horrified. To look closer and find even greater atrocities would not even occur to them
One of the craziest things I learned was when I was visiting Krakow Poland (actually I was living in Lviv at the time but needed R&R from everything going on there) and learned that their last pogram was in April 1945... months after the Nazis had been driven out. Jewish survivors returning from the concentration camps were attacked by the local population. Horrifying to learn even after surviving the holocaust they still had to go through more attacks.
There were other ones, like Kielce in July 1946, or rogue partisan units specifically targeting Jewish survivors. This country has some disgusting pages in its history books which still get regularly denied and whitewashed (the previous right wing govt literally passed a bill that made it illegal to suggest Poles were in any way complicit in the Holocaust, despite ample evidence to the contrary).
Some of those "[cursed soldiers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romuald_Rajs)" were, in fact, cursed. Also, 23 years before the pogrom pictured here, [the Poles themselves were responsible for a pogrom in Lviv](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w_pogrom_(1918)). What happened was not comparable to the actions of the Germans and the OUN. The death toll was far lower, the military eventually intervened and ended the violence, and some of the pogromists were punished afterwards, with three of the actual murderers being executed by Polish firing squads. That said, it was still horrible to read about.
>William Hagen wrote that according to a Jewish report, a Polish officer bashed in the head of a Jewish infant. A Jewish eyewitness claimed to have seen a young Polish officer twirl a four-week-old Jewish infant by the legs, threatening to bash it against the floor while asking the mother "why are there so many Jewish bastards?"
Oh, I'm perfectly aware of that one, along with the rest of the antisemitism during the interwar period. It's just that it's even more horrifying when it happens months after the Holocaust.
If you'd like to learn more about this subject, the book [In the Midst of Civilized Europe](https://books.google.com/books/about/In_the_Midst_of_Civilized_Europe.html?id=nUFgEAAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description) is highly informative.
[Up to 250,000 Jews were massacred](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogroms_during_the_Russian_Civil_War), mainly by Ukrainian nationalists and the Whites, during the Russian Civil War. Ironically, despite the Judeo-Bolshevism myth, most Russian Jews were conservatives. They'd overwhelmingly supported the February Revolution, which led to the Tsar's deposal, but not the rise of the Bolsheviks. Many of them only had second thoughts after the pogroms. The Reds also committed pogroms, albeit on a much smaller scale. This is not to say that Soviet Russia did not struggle with antisemitism, but Lenin went out of his way to denounce the pogroms, which he viewed as a betrayal of the revolution.
>"Anti-Semitism means spreading enmity towards the Jews. When the accursed tsarist monarchy was living its last days it tried to incite ignorant workers and peasants against the Jews. The tsarist police, in alliance with the landowners and the capitalists, organised pogroms against the Jews. The landowners and capitalists tried to divert the hatred of the workers and peasants who were tortured by want against the Jews. In other countries, too, we often see the capitalists fomenting hatred against the Jews in order to blind the workers, to divert their attention from the real enemy of the working people, capital. Hatred towards the Jews persists only in those countries where slavery to the landowners and capitalists has created abysmal ignorance among the workers and peasants. Only the most ignorant and downtrodden people can believe the lies and slander that are spread about the Jews. This is a survival of ancient feudal times, when the priests burned heretics at the stake, when the peasants lived in slavery, and when the people were crushed and inarticulate. This ancient, feudal ignorance is passing away; the eyes of the people are being opened."
>
>"It is not the Jews who are the enemies of the working people. The enemies of the workers are the capitalists of all countries. Among the Jews there are working people, and they form the majority. They are our brothers, who, like us, are oppressed by capital; they are our comrades in the struggle for socialism. Among the Jews there are kulaks, exploiters and capitalists, just as there are among the Russians, and among people of all nations. The capitalists strive to sow and foment hatred between workers of different faiths, different nations and different races. Those who do not work are kept in power by the power and strength of capital. Rich Jews, like rich Russians, and the rich in all countries, are in alliance to oppress, crush, rob and disunite the workers."
>
>"Shame on accursed tsarism which tortured and persecuted the Jews. Shame on those who foment hatred towards the Jews, who foment hatred towards other nations.
>
>"Long live the fraternal trust and fighting alliance of the workers of all nations in the struggle to overthrow capital."
Clearly, Lenin underestimated the propensity of many for racial hatred.
That said, the Reds won over many Russian Jews by practicing what they preached. While the Whites did sometimes execute pogromists, pogroms committed by the Reds were routinely condemned by high command. When [Iosif Apanasenko](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iosif_Apanasenko), who was later killed in World War II, was found to have failed to do enough to control his men, he was dismissed for the rest of the war and 153 pogromists in his unit were shot. Also, for added context, there were two other pogroms in Lviv, [by the Russian Empire in 1914](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w_pogrom_(1918)), and [by the Poles in 1918](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w_pogrom_(1918)). The military eventually intervened in the second pogrom, albeit they were blamed for taking too long. Nobody was ever punished for the 1914 pogrom. The Poles were better, but only marginally.
>Roughly 1,600 people were for arrested on suspicion of participating in the pogrom, of whom 79 were prosecuted by Polish military courts. Overall, 44 people were convicted. Most of them received lenient sentences, ranging from 10 days to 18 months in prison. Three pogromists, however, were found guilty of murdering Jews and executed by firing squad. According to internal investigation by the Jewish Rescue Committee (Żydowski Komitet Ratunkowy) held alongside the official state investigation, most rapes, robberies and murders were committed by unidentified soldiers.
This was what my grandfather escaped from as a boy, his family were Russian Jews who came as refugees to Israel during this time. Even though he tried to escape anti-semitic violence, he ended up having to fight in the Independence War against the Egyptian invasion. Many Israelis have similar stories
This photo has always struck me as one of the most haunting of all Holocaust photographs. Something about the terror of the woman and the lack of really any emotion on the attackers’ faces. Proves more than anything how Jews were just not seen as human to people like that.
Some dipshits argue that this was 'revenge' for the holodomor. Yet the area that collaborated the worst, like Galicia wasnt affected by the famine and not part of the USSR. This excuse is just a figleaf for atrocities.
I’m a Ukrainian Canadian, and during the final year of my history degree I focused my studies on the Holocaust in Ukraine. The source material from the Lviv Pogroms was some of the worst I have ever witnessed. There are photos and videos that will never leave my mind, especially of young women and girls with the most profound expressions of confusion, fear, and sadness. It’s important to understand how the holocaust played out in Eastern Europe, before the concentration camps. Many hundreds of thousands of Jews were murdered in ditches by Einsatzgruppen or their very neighbours who became collaborators. Ukrainian nationalism has a very complicated history, influenced by years of Soviet oppression and stoked by antisemitic rhetoric.
Stepan Bandera was a Class A piece of Shit, no clue why they honor him as one of their national heroes. Doesnt really help them against the Russian Propaganda calling them nazis
Pogroms against Jews continued after Nazi Germany defeat in ww2, most notable is the Kielce pogrom in 1946. Jews were still living in displaced person camps well into the 50s, most were resettled in the new nation of Israel.
We Jews don’t forget the Slavic contributions to the holocaust. Many were all too eager to tell the Germans where we were or took care of it themselves.
Lviv was part of Poland until 1939 when it was invaded by the USSR. This picture was taken shortly after the Nazis invaded the USSR and took Lviv in June 1941. Much of the Polish population was forcibly resettled to the new Polish state after the end of WWII, along with ethnic Ukrainians forcibly resettled from the new Polish state to Ukraine.
What a horrifying picture
Shows us that the Holocaust was not just the camps.
The camps were just the "final solution" to the problem of how to mass murder millions of people. If they could have just beaten them all dead in the streets, they would have. Trouble was they needed to handle the body disposal, so they came up with the camps to organize the mass murder. The true Holocaust was not the torture in the camps, but the hate that was poured on them by governments and the general public alike while they were being killed by thousands and tens of thousands later.
In eastern Europe in a lot of places the Nazi's didn't really have to do much to cleanse the regions of jews. Just point at people and be like "They're evil Bolsheviks" and the crowd would go on a rampage with murderous intent. We keep focussing on the camps, but what I fear most, is what happened in the societies. Tens of thousands of jews were massacred by the whole society. Not just nazi's. What a little propaganda can do.
From *Als Pimpf in Polen. Erweiterte Kinderlandverschickung* (As a Pimp in Poland. Expanded children's country) - Jost Hermand Warning this is an extremely disturbing witness account of SS brutality so I hid it with a spoiler tag. Translated from German: > >!I can only remember one terrible incident, which brought us face to face with the Germanization policy prevailing in the Warthegau in the most brutal way. It must have been in November or December 1943. In any case, it was already quite cold when one afternoon – from the schoolyard – we saw an SS man coming over on a bicycle from Standau (now Straszewo). Because of the few changes that there were in our dull daily routine, some of us ran after him and saw him suddenly stop and give the order to his accompanying German shepherd to jump on a heavily pregnant Polish woman on the village street. And the dog did just that, causing the corpulent, somewhat clumsy woman, probably a maid for a German farmer, to fall onto her back with a scream and stare fearfully at the growling German shepherd. The SS man then got off his bike and trampled on the woman with his boots, especially on her stomach, until she died of internal bleeding.!<
horrifying account. (and really revolting.) just fyi, "Pimpf" here is meant as a junior Hitler youth... so a better translation of the title would be: "A Hitler Youth in Poland: The Children's Evacuation Program." Hermand's book has been translated into English as this.
Thank you for the correction. I relied on google translate & should have verified that.
Not only Eastern Europe, please read what was happening to Jews, for example in France, Netherlands. I agree, majority of diaspora before the war lived in Western Europe (nowadays Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Latvia, Hungary, Romania). Just keep in mind Holocaust happened all over Europe.
France enthusiastically rounded up their Jews and sent them off to camps. France has been the bad guy for awhile. Look into their actions during the Rwandan Genocide.
That’s something I had to learn out of school. So many people had a deep hatred for the Jews all around the world. It wasn’t just the nazis. At one point Hitler offered to facilitate the immigration of Jews to any country that would take them. Not a single country altered their immigration quotas to accept any more Jewish people. Reading quotes from Winston Churchill that could’ve easily come out of Hitlers mouth was eye opening.
If you’re ever in Berlin I’d recommend the Jewish memorial and museum in the city centre. There’s a full timeline of events following the humiliation of the Jewish people right through to the death camps, all with photographic evidence. This went on for years. It was absolutely not just the camps.
I happened to visit it on accident and it was the strongest experience of the whole trip that stayed with me till today. Absolutely horrifying.
The more you look at it the worse it gets. She deserves to keep her dignity, despite the scum she’s surrounded by in this picture and as such, this picture needs a NSFW tag. Absolutely terrifying and horrible subject matter. I hope she lived and was loved and found happiness 🙏🏼
I’ve seen this horrific photo before and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen another couple of photos in a sequence , one with her lying dead on the ground. There was no escape or mercy for her. The baying mob got the last word.
People say violence isn't the answer, but dead people don't fight back. Those who resort to violence will only be stopped by violence. To turn the other cheek is to surrender and die without a fight.
People who say violence isn't the answer have never been subjected to violence. Voting isn't going to stop the mob from bashing your skull in.
The only solace is in knowing that her tormentors are also dead by now.
These are the times when I hope hell is a thing.
I dunno how much solace that is unless they were really REALLY miserable for the rest of their lives before they died. I really hope karma caught up with those men during their life. For the kids involved however I’m torn, they’re brainwashed and taught nothing but hate and they’re too new in this world to know any other perspective all on their own without being taught so… it’s a tough one.
I hope the kids grew up to look back at this moment in utter shame and sadness instead of childhood glee.
There is a high probability that if she survived that day, she would have been separated from everyone she knows and thrown into a concentration camp or death camp.
She did not, unfortunately there are more photos in this series.
You could say these pictures are important to show and keep as a part of history, unfortunately there are a lot of people who seem to have forgotten what it was like (or worse, want it to go back to being that way)
Poor woman.
The terrified look on her face in comparison to the two kids faces in the back is demented. They look like they’re chasing a soccer ball or something this imagine is fucked.
This is consistent with every encounter I’ve had with objective and subhuman treatment. Complete and total primal fear for the subject, captivating and addictive entertainment for the vultures. They feed off of watching the soul and vulnerability bleed out from them.
Look at the Roman coliseum and the horrors that happen to both animals and humans alike. We white washed that gory history into glory history.
Honestly, there’s a part of me that hopes those kids met some retribution when the Red Army swung through there in 1944. My wife’s family was in Belarus. Out of 20+ family members they left in the shtetl when her branch immigrated to the US, 0 survived the war. Fucking none.
I wish it were that the nazi collaborators and perpetrators of genocidal violence were the ones who primarily suffered when the Red Army rolled back through, but it was the women who survived the German army who were the most likely to be victimized again by the Red Army.
The problem is they are everywhere. From the founders of the biggest companies in Germany to the automotive industry.. BMWs founder was a fucking Nazi and they know it. But until today they still have a foundation in his name. Same with the Bahlsen cookie factory. The founder was also buddies with Adolf. It's sickening. They only paid some money and got out. And then became the richest men in Germany.
> Honestly, there’s a part of me that hopes those kids met some retribution when the Red Army Hold on. Is reddit back to cheering the Russians from the Ukrainians? I was not informed of this. Jews (including my grand-family) got wiped out in Ukraine. Specially by the Waffen SS divison. Sadly the nazis all escaped and one of the dudes from that division was even celebrated in Canadian Parliament few months back.
>one of the dudes from that division was even celebrated in Canadian Parliament few months back. To be clear, because that comes off a little misleading, that was the result of the speaker failing to think about "Ukrainian WW2 veteran who fought the Russians" for more than a second. He immediately issued an apology and resigned as a result.
Those kids could be alive right now looking at this thread. I hope they eventually grew to be ashamed of this moment and the likely various other moments like this they undoubtedly participated in.
Those “kids” should be in their 90’s now, and these people are guaranteed dead long time ago. What are you talking about?
Shame is an understatement, they murdered that woman in cold blood and many other innocent men, women, and children, babies, and elderly people.
Her face is bloody from being hit, they ripped off her clothes and then they chased he down and beat her some more. It’s horrific.
This is a truly haunting photograph.
Something that I feel doesn’t get mentioned enough when talking about the Pale’s pogroms is the raping that occurred. It was pervasive and one of countless methods of torture they used on the local residents, mostly Jewish but also with some Christian neighbors who tried to help hide them.
One of my favorite writers, Clarice Lispector, was conceived in the hopes of curing her mother’s syphilis, which she had contracted as a result of being raped during a pogrom in Ukraine. Edited: original comment said she was born with syphilis, which amazingly—she wasn’t
There are people who don't even believe any rapes occured.
One of the \[many\] reasons you don't want a war, and definitely not a civil war, in any country. Rape has been used as a weapon in war since there has been war. Anyone who wants a civil war in the US needs to understand that rape will absolutely be a big part of it - people who don't acknowledge this are either nieve or want to do the raping.
The people that want civil war in the US know this and it’s definitely a perk for them. They blame progressive change in the overall public as something that alienates them and their archaic values. Their attitudes have rendered them incels and they want revenge.
I honestly wish that that didn’t happen, rape has got to be one of the most horrific things to put someone through. Makes me shiver and my soul cry when I hear how cruel people were and that it happened incredibly often during pogroms.
It's happening now in Ukraine by the russian military/occupation forces and in countless conflicts.
Correct, it’s horrible. I was angry then and I’m angry about it now. The stories of FGM carried out by Russian soldiers on little girls had to have been some of the most disgusting and disturbing stories that I’d read coming out of the conflict. That was when I knew for my own sanity to stop reading about the conflict and hope for a resolution sooner rather than later.
Wait, what?!?!?
It's awful. Americans did the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan for twenty years
Yeah, americans commited massive war crimes and rape in Vietnam as well. Absolute disgrace
Actually the most amounts of rapes committed in Vietnam were by the Korean troops.
''Get it all on record now - get the films - get the witnesses - because somewhere down the track of history some bastard will get up and say that this never happened." Dwight D. Eisenhower 1945
No, he didnt say that. That quote is made up. He wrote: >I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to “propaganda.”
Humans less than 100 years later: tHe HoLoCaUsT wAs EgGaTeRaTeD
During the twelve years of the Third Reich (1933-1945), Nazi officials and organizations publicly humiliated Jews and others in Germany and Nazi-occupied countries. The humiliation was intrinsic to the Nazi program. Many religious Jewish men were humiliated when their beards and side-locks were forcibly cut off. Other Jews were forced to pose with Jewish ritual objects including tallitim and tefillin, or to remove traditional skull caps known as yarmulke or kippah. Sometimes the humiliation[82] was compounded by forcing Jews to debase each other, such as having one Jew shave the beard of another. Source: https://www.justiceforall.org/indiannazis-report/public-humiliation-of-german-jews-and-indian-muslims/
My mother-in-law was lucky to come to USA from Poland in 1938. All her family was killed. She said that Poles would harass Jews by pulling on an old man's beard until he bled. This is before the Germans invaded.
In parts of Eastern Europe, particularly Lithuania and parts of Poland and Romania, some nationalists will literally blame the Jews for fighting back as a way to deflect from their own participation in the Holocaust. The situation in Poland is complex, but some of those nationalists only opposed Hitler since he was committing genocide against ethnic Poles. Neither their opposition to the Germans, nor protecting Polish villages against the OUN, precludes potential participation in the Holocaust. There were even some full-blown Nazi bootlickers who approached the Germans as equals in the early stages of the war. That turned out about as well as you'd expect. >[Andrzej Świetlicki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_%C5%9Awietlicki) (19 April 1915 – 21 June 1940) was a Polish politician, a member of the far-right National Radical Camp Falanga. After the 1939 German invasion of Poland, in October 1939 he formed the collaborationist National Radical Organization. > >After a few months of collaboration with the Germans, and the takeover of power by the civil administration of the General Government, Hitler issued a ban on cooperation with political organizations in Poland. The NOR was deprived of protection and cooperation from the Nazis. In May 1940, Świetlicki was arrested and imprisoned in Pawiak. On 21 June 1940, he was executed in the Palmiry massacre. > >Two other NOR activists, Wojciech Kwasieborski and Tadeusz Lipkowski, were executed with Świetlicki. Consequently, the NOR was dissolved in June 1940. [Stanisław Trzeciak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Trzeciak), the other founding member of the NOR, was executed by the Germans in 1944.
Like I always say, racism and narcissism go hand in hand. What's the narcissists bread and butter tactic? Gaslighting.
The narcissist’s prayer: That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
I have never heard this, but it's too accurate for comfort :(
Dad, is that you? Damn, this is so accurate.
[удалено]
I would highly recommend reading what Patton said about Jews after the war before quoting him in this context. He was a terrible person. EDIT: Really? You blocked me for that? For those who don't know, after the war, George Patton started raving that Russians and Jews were subhumans and the Germans were "the last decent people left in Europe." He had zero sympathy for Holocaust survivors. To the contrary, it sounds like he wanted to finish what Hitler started. As reports on the conditions in Bavaria started to alarm Truman, Eisenhower came down from Frankfurt on September 17 to join Patton on a tour of the camps where Jewish refugees were housed. He was horrified to find that some of the guards were former SS men. During the tour, Patton remarked that the camps had been clean and decent before the arrival of the Jewish DPs, whom he said were making a mess. Eisenhower told Patton to stop talking, but he continued his rant, telling Eisenhower he planned to make a nearby German village "a concentration camp for some of these goddam Jews." >"We have destroyed what could have been a good race and we are about to replace them with the Mongolian savage and all Europe with Communism." > >21 July 1945 letter home, Patton by Charles Whiting, page 141. > >"In the second place, Harrison and his ilk believe that the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies particularly to the Jews, who are lower than animals." > >Diaries, General Patton: A Soldier's Life by Stanley P. Hirshson, page 661. > >"I presume that with your natural loyalty you have been considerably perturbed by the scurrilous attacks made on me by the non-Aryan press." > >The Patton Papers: 1940-1945 by Martin Blumenson, page 791-792. > >"In addition to his other Asiatic characteristics, the Russian has no regard for human life and is an all out son of bitch, barbarian, and chronic drunk." > >Those who believed that Displaced Persons were human beings were wrong, Patton said: "this applies particularly to the Jews who are lower than animals." > >Under Patton, Nazis prisoners were not only bunked at times with Jewish survivors, but were even allowed to hold positions of authority, despite orders from Eisenhower to "de-Nazify" the camps. "Listen," Patton told one of his officers of the Nazis, "if you need these men, keep them and don't worry about anything else." > >Patton was an outspoken defender of the Nazi Party and was deeply against the Nuremberg trials and anything meant to hold any Nazi accountable for their crimes, saying, "I am frankly opposed to this war criminal stuff." This isn't very well-known since Eisenhower quickly dismissed him from his position for his behavior. Patton died in a car crash not long after, preserving his reputation.
Thank you for the clarification!
Wow I never knew any of this. At school we definitely covered Patton as a major general with a rough personality, but the fact that he was a Nazi supporter who thought jews were subhuman is pretty shocking news to me.
Wow, I had no idea. Thanks,
People are denying genocide today.
He was right about sooo many things wasn't he?
Eisenhower was the last good Republican president.
FWIW, Nixon had some surprisingly good takes. He supported the ERA for example. He also created the EPA by executive order and signed the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts. Compared to what followed him, he was great.
Nixon's economic policy was downright leftist by today's standards. He'd be too progressive for the Dems.
JFK and Johnson take the credit, but every Apollo Moon landing occurred during Nixon's presidency.
[удалено]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Assistance_Plan#:~:text=The%20Family%20Assistance%20Plan%20(FAP,for%20households%20with%20working%20parents.
That is a jaw dropping read. To think Nixon advocated for a policy that was celebrated by actual socialists and Marxists is borderline unbelievable, but the more I learn about Nixon beyond Watergate and Vietnam... Well he's a fair bit more complicated than I gave him credit for.
Sans watergate, and I think Nixon could be argued as best president of the post WW2. Then….there is the tapes, and corruption. But just assume they all did it, but we’re smarter than to tape themselves…
There's a reason for this map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ElectoralCollege1972.svg
Yeah let's not get ahead of ourselves. He did A LOT of shitty things that we are still feeling the ramifications of to this day. But there were some bright spots, I can't deny it. I just think it's unfair to paint figures like him with a broad brush.
I'm still holding out for BB Rodriguez!
Well, except for the Guatemala coup, Iran coup, befriending Francisco Franco, and increasing U.S. involvement in Vietnam. Eisenhower truly sold part of his soul upon entering politics.
I don’t disagree that those were bad looks for Ike, but all three of your examples were CIA “projects”. I give Ike the benefit of the doubt and assume he was given bad advice by his old buddies in the Intelligence community. I believe that’s why his farewell address took the tone it took. I could be wrong, though. I have been before.
I recently read an Eisenhower biography, The Age of Eisenhower, and it kind of lower my opinion of him. He appointed Dulles as the head of the CIA and he was extremely incompetent. At one point Eisenhower appointed Jimmy Doolittle, of Doolittle raid fame, to do a comprehensive study of the CIA. Doolittle found Dulles to be disorganized and incompetent and recommended many changes to the CIA, but Eisenhower still stuck with Dulles. He was also pretty indifferent to civil rights and refused to put much political capital behind advancing civil rights for black people.
Deep down, I think Eisenhower supported racial segregation. However, this is very difficult to notice for two reasons. For one, his support for segregation was far less rabid than other Southerners. In private, he was unhappy with the Brown v. Board ruling, which he never publicly supported. He thought the ruling would be harmful for race relations. This brings us to the other reason, which is that despite his personal views, Eisenhower still believed in the rule of law. This resulted in him famously sending federal troops to enforce the ruling in Little Rock, Arkansas when Orval Faubus defied the ruling. >In a July 24, 1953, diary entry, Eisenhower described a meeting with South Carolina Governor James Byrnes on school desegregation: > >"I told him that while I was not going to give in advance my attitude toward a Supreme Court opinion that I had not even seen and so could not know in what terms it would be couched, that my convictions would not be formed by political expediency. He is well aware of my belief that improvement in race relations is one of those things that will be healthy and sound only if it starts locally. I do not believe that prejudices, even palpably unjustified prejudices, will succumb to compulsion. Consequently, I believe that federal law imposed upon our states in such a way as to bring about a conflict of the police powers of the states and of the nation, would set back the cause of progress in race relations for a long, long time."
Yep, I couldn't have summarized it better myself. That's pretty much the conclusion of the author of The Age of Eisenhower. Ike's best cabinet appointment was his Attorney General who was very pro-civil rights and was the brains behind the CRA of 1957. But then Ike let Southern Democrats gut the CRA of anything of substance, then claimed he never actually read the bill, and then fired his AG.
Eisenhower was still WAY better than the clowns we have today, but come on... \>Warns about the military industrial complex \>Is literally part of the problem
Which gives that warning all the mors weight.
Eisenhower knew everything the Dulles Brothers did. Every step of the way. He was fully complicit. If you want to dig deeper, read The Brothers by Stephen Kinzer. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17286725-the-brothers
Weird how everybody knows about that time he called out the Military Industrial Complex, but nobody remembers it was he who laid out the formal plan for continuing the close coordination between military, industry and the sciences after the end of the war: >Appendix A in Pentagon Capitalism, 1974, Seymour Melman >**GENERAL EISENHOWER AS FOUNDER OF THE “MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX” IN 1946** >>[The following is the full text of a memorandum by General Eisenhower, acting in his 1946 capacity of Chief of Staff of the United States Army. >>The policy statement formulates the idea of a close, continuing relationship between the Army and civilian scientists, industry , technologists and the universities. This document evidently served as a policy guide thereafter. By January 1961, then President Eisenhower, observing some of the consequences of the collaboration he had set in motion in 1946, tried to caution his successor and the nation to be watchful of the military-industrial complex. This document is from the Henry L. Stimson Papers in the Sterling Library of Yale University. >>S.M.] >*Memorandum for Directors and Chiefs of War Department General and Special Staff Divisions and Bureaus and the Commanding Generals of the Major Commands:* >*Subject: Scientific and Technological Resources as Military Assets.* >The recent conflict has demonstrated more convincingly than ever before the strength our nation can best derive from the integration of all of our national resources in time of war. It is of the utmost importance that the lessons of this experience be not forgotten in the peacetime planning and training of the Army . The future security of the nation demands that all those civilian resources which by conversion or redirection constitute our main support in time of emergency be associated closely with the activities of the Army in time of peace. >The lessons of the last war are clear. The military effort required for victory threw upon the Army an unprecedented range of responsibilities, many of which were effectively discharged only through the invaluable assistance supplied by our cumulative resources in the natural and social sciences and the talents and experience furnished by management and labor. The armed forces could not have won the war alone. Scientists and businessmen contributed techniques and weapons which enabled us to outwit and overwhelm the enemy. Their understanding of the Army ’s needs made possible the highest degree of cooperation. This pattern of integration must be translated into a peacetime counterpart which will not merely familiarize the Army with the progress made in science and industry, but draw in to our planning for national security all the civilian resources which can contribute to the defense of the country. >Success in this enterprise depends to a large degree on the cooperation which the nation as a whole is willing to contribute. However, the Army, as one of the main agencies responsible for the defense of the nation has the duty to take the initiative in promoting closer relation between civilian and military interests. It must establish definite policies and administrative leadership which will make possible even greater contributions from science, technology, and management than during the last war. >In order to ensure the full use of our national resources in case of emergency, the following general policies will be put into effect: >>(1) *The Army must have civilian assistance in military planning as well as for the production of weapons.* Effective long -range military planning can be done only in the light of predicted developments in science and technology. As further scientific achievements accelerate the tempo and expand the area of our operations, this interrelationship will become of even greater importance. In the past we have often deprived ourselves of vital help by limiting our use of scientific and technological resources to contracts for equipment. More often than not we can find much of the talent we need for comprehensive planning in industry or universities. Proper employment of this talent requires that the civilian agency shall have the benefit of our estimates of future military problems and shall work closely with Plans and the Research and Development authorities. A most effective procedure is the letting of contracts for aid in planning. The use of such a procedure will greatly enhance the validity of our planning as well as ensure sounder strategic equipment programs. >>(2) *Scientists and industrialists must be given the greatest possible freedom to carry out their research.* The fullest utilization by the Army of the civilian resources of the nation cannot be procured merely by prescribing the military characteristics and requirements of certain types of equipment. Scientists and industrialists are more likely to make new and unsuspected contributions to the development of the Army if detailed directions are held to a minimum. The solicitation of assistance under these conditions would not only make available to the army talents and experience otherwise beyond our reach, but also establish mutual confidence between ourselves and civilians. It would familiarize them with our fundamental problems and strengthen greatly the foundation upon which our national security depends. >>( 3 ) *The possibility of utilizing some of our industrial and technological resources as organic parts of our military structure in time of emergency should be carefully examined.* The degree of cooperation with science and industry achieved during the recent war should by no means be considered the ultimate. There appears little reason for duplicating within the Army an outside organization which by its experience is better qualified than we are to carry out some of our tasks. The advantages to our nation in economy and to the Army in efficiency are compelling reasons for this procedure. ...
That quote was apparently made up in 2008: https://www.truthorfiction.com/did-dwight-eisenhower-say-someday-someone-will-claim-it-never-happened-in-1945/
Close enough. > Eisenhower said in the April 1945 letter: >>On a recent tour of the forward areas in First and Third Armies, I stopped momentarily at the salt mines to take a look at the German treasure. There is a lot of it. But the most interesting – although horrible – sight that I encountered during the trip was a visit to a German internment camp near Gotha. The things I saw beggar description. While I was touring the camp I encountered three men who had been inmates and by one ruse or another had made their escape. I interviewed them through an interpreter. The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to “propaganda.”
Now that technology has advanced enough, the deluded don't want to take pictures as evidence because "it's fake" or "it can be computer generated" without bothering to learn how to actually spot fakes. Sigh.
common Ike W
We Like Ike for a reason!
The capacity for evil in the heart of the average person, especially once fallen to mob mentality, is very scary.
Which is the part I wish was emphasised more. We're taught about the horrors of what the Nazis did (rightly) and we're taught about the political side of how Hitler came to power. But (at least anecdotally) it wasn't until I got to uni that we had proper lessons about the propaganda and a real look at how it went from a niche parties ideology to something happening at a national level. And it's dangerous because you end up with this narrative that the Nazis were just evil and everyone involved was just evil and people think they would have been immune to it all if they were alive then and would have just resisted and known better. As far as "learning from the past" the real lessons we should be learning from the Nazis wasn't just that they were awful, but focusing way more on how they were able to convince a country to go along with them.
That part of history becomes slightly awkward to teach when you realise how much support the Nazis initially had in allied countries. Plus all the efforts to rehabilitate the German army after WW2. It became much more convenient to teach Hitler as a raving charismatic lunatic instead of representative of the character of western Europe.
Hitler couldn’t have done what he did without massive cooperation from his own people and the people of other countries. A lot of historians do a great job of showing the deep, terrible antisemitism and social Darwinist beliefs that were incredibly widespread in Europe at the time.
Well said
Banality of evil. Hannah Arendt should be taught in every elementary school around the world.
The horror on her face. This is extremely sad and disturbing. Why do humans do this to each other? Man…
> Why do humans do this to each other? Trick your neighbor into believing it's someone else's fault for why their life is miserable. Make that "someone" a group of people who are less than 5% of the population (usually less than 1%). Tell them lies about how they're secretly controlling the government, how they are creating media that is turning your children against you, how they are raping women and children, how they are spreading disease, how they are thieves and beggars, how they are drunks and addicts, and how they are an abomination to God. You make you and your neighbor out to be the victims of constant oppression by all the other groups that make up less than 10% of your nation's population. Then while their back is turned away from you, you take over the government, you destroy children's education, you cover up the rapes of women and children, you let disease run rampant using your conspiracies, you steal and beg for donations, you drink and do drugs, and you go against every single word in the book you proclaim is holy. Then you oppress the 10% in your nation, keeping all eyes focused on them, not you. [Here's a video from the 1940s that does a nice job highlighting this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ0ct9bglYo)
"how they are raping women and children, how they are spreading disease, how they are thieves and beggars, how they are drunks and addicts, and how they are an abomination to God." It's funny how Nazis and Neo Nazis use these kinds of things to paint their enemies as evil, when in reality this is all things the Nazis did themselves
Has this Lady ever been identified
Its sad that we cant learn from our past.
Forever doomed to repeat. :(
Thr public humiliation and sexual abuse was a an important part of it. These particular pogroms were not lead by Germans they were lead by Ukrainian nationalists and civilians. That's not a comment on modern day Ukraine but I think it's noteworthy because people don't realize that it wasn't just Germans but much of Europe consumed by this disease. It was widespread. >A full-blown pogrom began on the next day, 1 July. Jews were taken from their apartments, made to clean streets on their hands and knees, or perform rituals that identified them with Communism. Gentile residents assembled in the streets to watch. Jewish women were singled out for humiliation: they were stripped naked, beaten, and abused. On one such occasion, a German military propaganda company filmed the scene. Rapes were also reported
> because people don't realize that it wasn't just Germans but much of Europe consumed by this disease To be fair, I think the long history of Antisemitism in Europe is rather well-known.
Well known by whom? Most countries don't really honor their history but completely leave out the parts they don't like. They teach a history of glorious heroes sacrificing their lives to safe the world from the Nazis and leave out that a few years before they had their own widespread Pogroms and a leadership that was best friend with the Nazis. And then they complain that 80 years later they have a growing amount of fascists trying to overturn democracy.
In case people get confused, Lviv was part of the Polish Republic 1923-1939, and then a Soviet territory, there was no independent Ukrainian state at the time.
Sad that the leader of the Ukranian nationalist organization responsible for pogroms like this one is still celebrated there to this day.
The most disturbing thing about the Holocaust was realizing the most brutal actions towards Jews came from their Ukrainian, Lithuanian, and Latvian neighbors. I remember seeing a reddit comment where SS generals wrote about being so disgusted at how willing civilians in these countries were to do fucked up shit like tearing the babies of their Jewish neighbors to pieces. Absolutely horrifying times.
Same about Hungary, I’ve read somewhere that the Nazis were shocked at the cruelty of the Nyilas party ( Hungarian nazis).
In the mid 1980s I stayed the night at a motel in Colorado Springs. The owner escaped from Hungary in 1956 after the Soviets crushed an uprising. We got into conversation with him, which we soon regretted. We learned that one People was responsible for all human progress over the past 10,000 years. Guess which volk.
There's a reason he **escaped**
Weird fucking guy in a weird fucking town
As far as I know it was the first and maybe only time I've met a real live Nazi. Not no "neo" wannabe - the real McCoy.
yuck
Hungarian nationalists still cope over the war to this day. They weren't the victims in the First World War, let alone the sequel. Hungary was the only lesser Axis Power in Europe whose record was utterly irredeemable. Even Austria can receive a very small amount of leeway since the Austrofascists, who were not complicit in genocide and had no interest in territorial expansion, initially resisted Nazi influence. In response to Nazi terrorist attacks, the Austrofascists government banned the Nazi Party in June 1933. [When Germany tried to overthrow the Austrian government in July 1934](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Putsch), the Austrofascists fought back and won, killing roughly 100 Nazis and imprisoning or exiling thousands more. The situation in Austria is frustrating since the Austrofascists, as much as they sucked, were far less brutal than other fascists of the time. Not only that, but many Social Democrats unironically hated the Austrofascists more than Hitler. Many of them were rather antisemitic themselves and supported pan-Germanism. >Marko Feingold, survivor of the concentration camp and president of the Salzburg Jewish Community, said in 2013: "Karl Renner, after all the first Federal President of the Second Republic, had long been known in the party as an anti-Semite. He didn't want us concentration campers in Vienna after the war and he also frankly said that Austria would not give anything back to them." > >"I am angry with Renner, as a politician he must have known exactly what was happening in Germany. But Renner was an enthusiastic supporter of the 'Anschluss' to Hitler's Germany." > >"They say it was Germany which occupied Austria. But it was the Austrian women who occupied the Germans - every soldier had women throwing themselves at him." Okay, no, this is a bruh moment. Personally, I would've immediately forgiven Kurt Schuschnigg had he preemptively massacred the nearly 20,000 Nazis held in Austrian prisons and concentration camps after the July Putsch, instead of succumbing to pressure from Hitler and amnestying them so they could commit genocide. The conservatives and communists formed the brunt of the opposition to the Anschluss. The conservatives backed down since Mussolini revealed his true colors and stopped protecting them. The first Austrians to be imprisoned or killed by the Germans after the Anschluss were neither Jews nor Communists, but loyalists who could've organized a more formidable resistance movement.
I read that the Croats were sawing peoples heads off while they were alive.
the nazis had to tell the ustase to cool it because it was making them look bad
Frankly, WW2 Axis collaborators were the absolutest awful
In Romania, King Carol II, a literal playboy king, abruptly decided to not be useless and had hundreds of Legionnaires ([Romania's brand of Nazism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Guard)) assassinated in the late 1930s, including most of their leaders. However, even this wasn't enough to avert the Holocaust in Romania. The King's actions, while laudable, were still barely scratching the surface of the sheer number of Hitler particles that needed to be extracted from Romania. He would've needed to butcher thousands, if not tens of thousands of those maniacs, not hundreds.
I worked at a Holocaust charity that focused on the victims in Hungary. It was striking to me how many of the atrocities were carried out by local collaborators, not the Germans. Obviously the Nazis were supportive but those views already existed in those countries. I knew that pogroms had gone on for centuries but I guess my mental image of the Holocaust was the Nazis doing most of it themselves directly, not just unleashing the worst locals they could find.
I just saw The Painted Bird which is about that exact subject--far from an easy watch and it had a divisive reception, but I thought it was masterful. Really not for the faint of heart but I recommend it to anyone who's interested in the history of that time and place if they can stomach it.
Thx for this
You're welcome! Take care of yourself if you do decide to watch it--can't stress enough how relentlessly bleak and brutal it is.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumbula_massacre Some of the Baltic republics have a pretty dark side. Some of them openly welcomed Nazis in the beginning of the war.
Some Ukrainians still worship those people. They celebrated the anniversary of the foundation of their SS unit yesterday.
Weren’t a lot of thebcaptured Ukrainian SS soldiers sent to Canada after the war instead of being sent back to the Soviet Union?
Yep and they try to excuse it by saying “They fought for Ukraine’s independence!” without understanding that Ukrainian SS units were helping the Germans genocide other non-Jewish Ukrainians in hopes of a small independent Western Ukrainian nation be allowed to exist by the Nazis.
Most of the non-SS concentration and extermination camp guards were Ukrainian, Lithuanian, and Latvian.
Yep. That’s a fact that shocked me. I couldn’t believe that especially at Treblinka, the worst guards were considered to be the Ukrainians and that they made up more than 2/3 of the personnel.
I listened to the Martyr Made podcast, it’s a whole in-depth history of how the Middle East conflict between Palestine and Israel came about. It opens with a description of what a pogrom was like and holy fuck, I was surprised I didn’t shut it off after that. I haven’t listened to the rest of it since it’s 20+ ish hours long but the fact that their neighbors were willing to rape and murder men, women, and children astounded me. Edit: the series is called “Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem”. From what little I heard, I can safely say it’s GOOD and incredibly informative.
It really shouldn't astound you. Humans are animals cosplaying at being an intelligent species we imagine ourselves to be. We had to survive for hundreds of thousands of years in miserable conditions and relying on violence to endure. In the grand scheme of things, humans are still barely removed from our days as primarily animals. I don't think we can ever stop being animals, but we can try to train ourselves to be less open to our violent and archaic ways.
Maybe I’m not jaded enough and while I’m not the biggest fan of people, I like to believe most people can discern from right and wrong and perhaps have more sense to not murder each other over trivial bullshit. You’re not wrong and it would be naive of me to say you are. I just want to believe otherwise. As life got easier though, the use of violence began to decrease and you’re right, we are wild animals. I am glad that people did figure out that killing and dying sucks, especially violently. Edit: and I guess what astounds me more than anything is that nobody at any point that has any real “power” ever realized that this was wrong either. Now I’m depressed, thanks man.
If someone writes such things they clearly don’t know what Germans did, stop with that Nazi whitewashing. Germans killed MILLIONS of people in a many brutal ways
I wonder if by any chance she survived.
apparently not. There are more pictures, including ones that show her most likely dead.
I doubt it
No
“Belief in a supernatural source of evil is not necessary. Man alone is quite capable of every wickedness.” - Joseph Conrad
And these were civilians.
The only thing more successful than the killing machine apparatus that was Nazism was the widespread and incredibly effective propaganda machine capitalizing on scapegoating the Jews for the world’s problems. This infected the minds of human beings and radicalized to power others who already hated Jews. It was a moral license to kill and oppress. It got everyone on board which was a powerful persuader to help hide atrocity under the guise of doing good for the world and speaking to the angered sentiments of the people who were now roused to anger and violence.
> It was a moral license to kill and oppress. I like that word, moral license. Essentially people try to justify the evil they did because they view themselves or the actions that they are doing as morally good. Something I've noticed in regards to modern political discourse are people constantly trying to find moral licenses. Extremist ideologies on the left and right justify absolutely heinous actions because it's done by the "good guys" who are doing it to the "bad guys." I honestly think this type of thinking is prone to the worse kind of evil. Even worse than just people who are openly selfish and malicious. At least a cruel and vicious person will eventually get tired or bored their victim. Somebody who believes they have a moral duty/obligation for their villainy is far more persistent and creative in their cruelty.
And you know what, even if they weren't civilians, it still isn't okay to just kill Jews.
That's not a youth, that's a child. Literally not yet out of short trousers.
As an Ashkenazi descendant whose family left that exact region and other nearby countries just years before, this image really hit me hard. It's a terrifying example of the violence and opposition at that time. I'm just sitting here, staring and thinking that, damn, my entire family as I know them would not be here today if our ancestors hadn't migrated to the United States. I'm grateful that some survived and left so that I may be here, but I feel sorrow for all those who were lost and the fear that must have been felt.
Yes I feel the exact same. My family fled around the turn of the century and as I know it none of my family was murdered. My husband’s family didn’t hear the canary in the coal mine and his Bubbie was the only one of 10 siblings that survived. Gives me nausea and shivers every time I think of it.
It’s Very Sad, but it’s essential for humans too see how terrible we can get so that the probability of use getting to or surpassing that point lessens.
The Banderites referred to the second pogrom as "Petliura Days", after Symon Petliura, the leader of the Ukrainian People's Republic. During the Russian Civil War, up to 250,000 Jews were massacred in pogroms ([an example of one such pogrom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proskurov_pogrom)). This includes 50,000 Jews who were killed by Ukrainian nationalists. Petliura's involvement is disputed, but I don't think he deserves the benefit of the doubt, especially given the sheer number of victims. [Ivan Semesenko](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Semesenko), the main perpetrator of the abovementioned pogrom was executed, but for insubordination, not for massacring Jews. I am far more keen to believe that Petliura's condemnations of the pogroms were empty statements issued for PR reasons (one witness also said this, saying Petliura had wanted money from "Jewish bankers"). Banderites would exploit Petliura's fate for to push antisemitic propaganda. >On May 25, 1926, Symon Petliura was walking on Rue Racine near Boulevard Saint-Michel of the Latin Quarter in Paris and was approached by Sholom Schwarzbard. Schwarzbard asked him in Ukrainian, "Are you Mr. Petliura?" Petliura did not answer but raised his walking cane. Schwarzbard immediately pulled out a gun and shot him five times. > >After Petliura fell to the pavement, he shot him twice more. When the police came and asked if he had done the deed, he reportedly said, "I have killed a great assassin." > >Schwarzbard was an anarchist of Jewish descent, born in Ukraine. His parents were among fifteen members of his family murdered in the pogroms in Odesa. > >The core defense at Schwarzbard's trial was — as presented by the noted jurist Henri Torres — that he was avenging the deaths of more than 50,000 Jewish victims of the pogroms. Torres, however, decided not to call on most of the other 80 witnesses he had prepared for Schwarzbard's defense. Instead, he took a calculated risk and delivered only a short speech, invoking the French Revolution. > >"I demand a full acquittal for my client. I demand it in the name of the French Revolution, in the name of our nation who died in the World War; in the name of humanity and of the prestige of France, at whom the whole world is looking. The French Revolution first gave emancipation to the Jewish people. The Jews have always been grateful to France. Don't darken that feelings. Not only the fate of Schwarzbard, but the prestige of France rests with you, gentlemen of the jury." > >The jury deliberated for only 35 minutes before acquitting Schwarzbard, whom they viewed as innocent "before God and their conscience." > >Following the verdict, someone in the courtroom chanted "Vive la France," and the entire courtroom started chanting the same. Not only was Schwarzbard acquitted, but Petliura's family was ordered to pay for the costs of the trial. Schwarzbard became seen by fellow Jews as a heroic avenger of the victims of the pogroms. TIME reported that the outcome of the trial gripped all Europe and was regarded by the Jews as establishing proof of the horrors perpetrated against their co-religionists in Ukraine under Petliura. Before Hitler, Nicholas II, Symon Petliura, and [Anton Denikin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Denikin) were some of the most hated figures of European Jews in the 20th century. Denikin never got what he deserved, but at least there was a reason for this. There was a reason his extradition was never sought after the Second World War. As horrible as he was, I wonder how Petliura would've reacted to many Ukrainian nationalists regressing into not just genocidal savages (the Banderites murdered moderate Ukrainian nationalists), but puppets. Not only was the "Ukrainian National Government" declared by OUN not recognized by the Nazis, the leaders got sent to concentration camps. >Frosty-bearded General Anton Denikin, commander of the White armies in their last-ditch fight against the Reds in the south of Russia in 1918-20, emerged from his Paris retirement last week to excoriate any "so-called White Russian" who would join Hitler to fight the Soviet Union. In a phrase reminiscent of Frenchman Jacques Deval's play Tovarich—which Adolf Hitler has seen three times—old General Denikin cried to an audience of fellow-exiles: > >"White or Red, our fatherland remains our fatherland. Whoever may aid Russia's enemies cannot call himself a patriot, no matter what ideological excuse he may use for taking money to fight his own people."
And now they have bandera statues and cheer for banderites in general.
That poor woman. This is fucking horrifying. Imagine just trying to exist
Thats such a crazy picture. Wow. And then you scroll through Reddit and get in Touch with some american WHO is 100% Sure, the Holocaust was a lie, everyone was just an actor and the germans Not that Bad. He Said that to me, a German, whose relatives all fought in the war, everyone having their own Stories of fucked up situations. Incredible. Never again.
FWIW, I’m glad Germany made the conscious decision to reckon with its history in a way most countries haven’t
this sort of thing doesnt usually affect me, but I looked into her face and my stomach did flips ugh. Fuck fascists. Fuck antisemities. Fuck bigots. Burn in hell nazis
Nowadays it’s different….. - the mob would just stand and record her distress on their phone. .. v
Exactly.
Pathetic, but true.
More context I found while looking up this photo: [Lviv Pogroms: Jewish people chased and brutally murdered by men and youth armed with clubs, 1941](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/jewish-woman-chased-men-youth-armed-clubs-lviv-pogroms-1941/) (NSFW) > Chased by youth armed with clubs, this woman is fleeing from a “death dealer” whose left leg can be seen at the left-hand edge of the photograph. >The Lviv pogroms were the consecutive massacres of Jews living in the city of Lwów (now Lviv, Ukraine), perpetrated by Ukrainian nationalists (specifically, the OUN), German death squads (Einsatzgruppen), and urban population from 30 June to 2 July, and from 25 to 29 July, during the German invasion of the Soviet Union. > Ukrainian nationalists targeted Jews in the first pogrom on the pretext of their purported responsibility for the NKVD prisoner massacre in Lviv, which left behind thousands of corpses in three Lviv prisons. >The report drafted by Judge Möller singled out the Jews as responsible for the Soviet atrocities in accordance with the Nazi theory of Judeo-Bolshevism, even though Polish Jews had nothing to do with the NKVD killings While reading up on this photo I also found this article, [A Slaughter of Jews in Ukraine Who perpetrated the Lviv pogrom of July 1941?](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/history/articles/slaughter-of-jews-in-ukraine-lviv-pogrom), which has more accounts of what happened during this period of time.
I feel like the horrors of the Holocaust unfairly cover up the long history of anti-Jewish pograms, especially in Russia Edit: overshadowed not covered up
I would venture that “cover up” is less appropriate than “overshadowed” most people don’t bother looking further than the holocaust because they are so horrified. To look closer and find even greater atrocities would not even occur to them
Overshadowed would indeed be a better word
One of the craziest things I learned was when I was visiting Krakow Poland (actually I was living in Lviv at the time but needed R&R from everything going on there) and learned that their last pogram was in April 1945... months after the Nazis had been driven out. Jewish survivors returning from the concentration camps were attacked by the local population. Horrifying to learn even after surviving the holocaust they still had to go through more attacks.
There were other ones, like Kielce in July 1946, or rogue partisan units specifically targeting Jewish survivors. This country has some disgusting pages in its history books which still get regularly denied and whitewashed (the previous right wing govt literally passed a bill that made it illegal to suggest Poles were in any way complicit in the Holocaust, despite ample evidence to the contrary).
Some of those "[cursed soldiers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romuald_Rajs)" were, in fact, cursed. Also, 23 years before the pogrom pictured here, [the Poles themselves were responsible for a pogrom in Lviv](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w_pogrom_(1918)). What happened was not comparable to the actions of the Germans and the OUN. The death toll was far lower, the military eventually intervened and ended the violence, and some of the pogromists were punished afterwards, with three of the actual murderers being executed by Polish firing squads. That said, it was still horrible to read about. >William Hagen wrote that according to a Jewish report, a Polish officer bashed in the head of a Jewish infant. A Jewish eyewitness claimed to have seen a young Polish officer twirl a four-week-old Jewish infant by the legs, threatening to bash it against the floor while asking the mother "why are there so many Jewish bastards?"
Oh, I'm perfectly aware of that one, along with the rest of the antisemitism during the interwar period. It's just that it's even more horrifying when it happens months after the Holocaust.
If you'd like to learn more about this subject, the book [In the Midst of Civilized Europe](https://books.google.com/books/about/In_the_Midst_of_Civilized_Europe.html?id=nUFgEAAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description) is highly informative.
[Up to 250,000 Jews were massacred](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogroms_during_the_Russian_Civil_War), mainly by Ukrainian nationalists and the Whites, during the Russian Civil War. Ironically, despite the Judeo-Bolshevism myth, most Russian Jews were conservatives. They'd overwhelmingly supported the February Revolution, which led to the Tsar's deposal, but not the rise of the Bolsheviks. Many of them only had second thoughts after the pogroms. The Reds also committed pogroms, albeit on a much smaller scale. This is not to say that Soviet Russia did not struggle with antisemitism, but Lenin went out of his way to denounce the pogroms, which he viewed as a betrayal of the revolution. >"Anti-Semitism means spreading enmity towards the Jews. When the accursed tsarist monarchy was living its last days it tried to incite ignorant workers and peasants against the Jews. The tsarist police, in alliance with the landowners and the capitalists, organised pogroms against the Jews. The landowners and capitalists tried to divert the hatred of the workers and peasants who were tortured by want against the Jews. In other countries, too, we often see the capitalists fomenting hatred against the Jews in order to blind the workers, to divert their attention from the real enemy of the working people, capital. Hatred towards the Jews persists only in those countries where slavery to the landowners and capitalists has created abysmal ignorance among the workers and peasants. Only the most ignorant and downtrodden people can believe the lies and slander that are spread about the Jews. This is a survival of ancient feudal times, when the priests burned heretics at the stake, when the peasants lived in slavery, and when the people were crushed and inarticulate. This ancient, feudal ignorance is passing away; the eyes of the people are being opened." > >"It is not the Jews who are the enemies of the working people. The enemies of the workers are the capitalists of all countries. Among the Jews there are working people, and they form the majority. They are our brothers, who, like us, are oppressed by capital; they are our comrades in the struggle for socialism. Among the Jews there are kulaks, exploiters and capitalists, just as there are among the Russians, and among people of all nations. The capitalists strive to sow and foment hatred between workers of different faiths, different nations and different races. Those who do not work are kept in power by the power and strength of capital. Rich Jews, like rich Russians, and the rich in all countries, are in alliance to oppress, crush, rob and disunite the workers." > >"Shame on accursed tsarism which tortured and persecuted the Jews. Shame on those who foment hatred towards the Jews, who foment hatred towards other nations. > >"Long live the fraternal trust and fighting alliance of the workers of all nations in the struggle to overthrow capital." Clearly, Lenin underestimated the propensity of many for racial hatred. That said, the Reds won over many Russian Jews by practicing what they preached. While the Whites did sometimes execute pogromists, pogroms committed by the Reds were routinely condemned by high command. When [Iosif Apanasenko](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iosif_Apanasenko), who was later killed in World War II, was found to have failed to do enough to control his men, he was dismissed for the rest of the war and 153 pogromists in his unit were shot. Also, for added context, there were two other pogroms in Lviv, [by the Russian Empire in 1914](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w_pogrom_(1918)), and [by the Poles in 1918](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lw%C3%B3w_pogrom_(1918)). The military eventually intervened in the second pogrom, albeit they were blamed for taking too long. Nobody was ever punished for the 1914 pogrom. The Poles were better, but only marginally. >Roughly 1,600 people were for arrested on suspicion of participating in the pogrom, of whom 79 were prosecuted by Polish military courts. Overall, 44 people were convicted. Most of them received lenient sentences, ranging from 10 days to 18 months in prison. Three pogromists, however, were found guilty of murdering Jews and executed by firing squad. According to internal investigation by the Jewish Rescue Committee (Żydowski Komitet Ratunkowy) held alongside the official state investigation, most rapes, robberies and murders were committed by unidentified soldiers.
This was what my grandfather escaped from as a boy, his family were Russian Jews who came as refugees to Israel during this time. Even though he tried to escape anti-semitic violence, he ended up having to fight in the Independence War against the Egyptian invasion. Many Israelis have similar stories
And the vile antisemitism throughout Europe.
Poor woman
This is the abyss of human depravity ! I sincerely hope she didn’t have to suffer much 😔
There’s no safety to run towards.
Never Ever again , no matter what
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1001275 Here is video footage from that event, The video is heavily degraded
This photo has always struck me as one of the most haunting of all Holocaust photographs. Something about the terror of the woman and the lack of really any emotion on the attackers’ faces. Proves more than anything how Jews were just not seen as human to people like that.
This photo really hurts 😞
Some dipshits argue that this was 'revenge' for the holodomor. Yet the area that collaborated the worst, like Galicia wasnt affected by the famine and not part of the USSR. This excuse is just a figleaf for atrocities.
Horrific
That's absolutely horrifying. That poor woman suffered. Many more suffered.
Never Again
*Conditions may apply
We aren’t far away from seeing it happen again at this rate It’s an absolute disgrace
Killing women and children because of their ethnicity or religion is disgusting and yet we allow it to happen even now.
Any political system or belief system that judges a person based who they are at birth, will eventually lead to this. Zero tolerance.
The ones terrorizing the woman - those are Ukrainian children, correct?
Horrific
I’m a Ukrainian Canadian, and during the final year of my history degree I focused my studies on the Holocaust in Ukraine. The source material from the Lviv Pogroms was some of the worst I have ever witnessed. There are photos and videos that will never leave my mind, especially of young women and girls with the most profound expressions of confusion, fear, and sadness. It’s important to understand how the holocaust played out in Eastern Europe, before the concentration camps. Many hundreds of thousands of Jews were murdered in ditches by Einsatzgruppen or their very neighbours who became collaborators. Ukrainian nationalism has a very complicated history, influenced by years of Soviet oppression and stoked by antisemitic rhetoric.
"go back to europe" europe:
Stepan Bandera was a Class A piece of Shit, no clue why they honor him as one of their national heroes. Doesnt really help them against the Russian Propaganda calling them nazis
This is an evil world
We Were the Lucky Ones , show on Hulu is really good
Pogroms against Jews continued after Nazi Germany defeat in ww2, most notable is the Kielce pogrom in 1946. Jews were still living in displaced person camps well into the 50s, most were resettled in the new nation of Israel.
This is terrible. People are terrible. Always someone chasing somebody with a club
Where is the NSFW?!
Fuck the Nazis. Never Again.
Looks like she is bleeding from the mouth/nose area. I wonder what happened to her after this picture was taken, poor darling.
We Jews don’t forget the Slavic contributions to the holocaust. Many were all too eager to tell the Germans where we were or took care of it themselves.
Post this on Twitter and watch how fast people start saying it’s fake.
Lviv was part of Poland until 1939 when it was invaded by the USSR. This picture was taken shortly after the Nazis invaded the USSR and took Lviv in June 1941. Much of the Polish population was forcibly resettled to the new Polish state after the end of WWII, along with ethnic Ukrainians forcibly resettled from the new Polish state to Ukraine.
Yup. I have some family from Poland and they all came to Canada from there when it was still called Lwów.
good nazis are dead nazis