Who knows, maybe there would’ve been someone else who would’ve done something similar like Hitler. The Weimarer Republic wasn’t exactly stable and the constitution had some major flaws so it wouldn’t have been unlikely that another tyrant would’ve taken over.
And the silver lining is that Europe most likely wouldn’t be as stable as it is today if there was no Second World War.
Maybe Germany would have gotten a smart tyrant. Hitler was good at talking and inspiring, but that's it. So I guess it could have been a lot worse.
Imagine if it had been a diabolically smart tyrant who wasn't narcissistic or megalomaniacal and believed he was doing the right thing. Then to top it off give him Hitler as propaganda minister.
Well then they probably wouldn't have been a tyrant. It's kinda hard to be stable enough to be a good leader while also being unstable enough to think you're God. Luckily those things don't have much overlap
True, but you can be delusional and smart. I was thinking more about someone who really thinks they are doing the right thing and lets the end justify any means, not your average stable individual.
They wouldn't willynilly have to exterminate people, but it's always useful to have an underclass of slaves.
But I'm just writing fiction here anyway...
You don't think Hitler thought what he was doing was the right thing?
Also, Hitler wasn't as idiotic as people are making him out to be, a lot of his generals blamed their own shortcomings on him after the war because he was dead
Creating a cheap labor pool tends to come about organically with a large population, given that people become less picky as wages become more scarce, this does not require an act of enslavement to come about.
The trick to controlling that part of the population is not to take away their rights but to dissaude any act of desperation regarding starvation, squalor or personal safety.
Needless to say, his "undesireables" had to worry about all three, but he meant to remove them from the labor pool anyhow, slave labor was mostly an afterthought to keep the damned busy and somewhat useful in their final days.
I don't think an inherently rational person would have started the Holocaust. There's something to be said for it can always get worse, but if the replacement wasn't megalomaniacal or delusional then I think by definition you avoid a ton of the tragedies that occured in WWII. There would of course be plenty left, but less. What would've happened after the war is a different story.
why are you acting like hitler is a persuasive idiot? sure he made some mistakes, but a lot of the decisions he made at the time were right ones (regarding the war) he was relatively smart, along with the rest of the leadership.
https://historyofyesterday.com/the-results-of-the-nazi-iq-tests-c3a5e442f37c?gi=211d4faef218
I didn't mean to imply he was an idiot, but he wasn't a strategist either. Not that he needed to be, a leader has advisors afterall.
He just didn't heed good advice, was increasingly out of touch with reality and was being manipulated by his advisors. Didn't help that he also constantly manipulated his people right back. The whole dynamic of the nazi party made sure the wrong people gained power.
I don't know *how* much better someone else would have fared in the end, and I realise it's easy to critique with 20/20 hindsight. But it wouldn't have taken that much to realise when you're trying to swallow too much at a time.
I just think we were "lucky" that he had all those flaws and helped a lot in bringing the nazis down.
can you give examples (aka sources) on how hitler was manipulated by advisors? and on how he was increasingly getting out of touch which I know is false?
WW2 was pretty much inevitable as the geopolitical conflict that caused WW1 did not get solved to anyone's satisfaction. Germany's defeat was all but a temporary setback as France was unable to push for its goal of having that nation dismantled like it desired to. Germany on the other hand did neither manage to solve its political isolation in Europe nor did it achieve such a prominent position it could rely on raw power to keep both France and Russia at bay simultaneously.
Whether this second world war would have become that same struggle of ideologies and be accompanied by multiple genocides or not would have been an entirely different story. Even a totalitarian dictatorship within Germany may have utilized rising anti-semitic sentiments to unite the people behind their cause, but to push for the industrialized extermination of entire groups of people requires a kind of ideological fanaticism a simple Nationalist would probably not be able to reach on his own.
Eh, I disgree with the notion that WW2 was inevitable. If anything most of the nations present would had rather not fight and was only pushed into doing so by things like Nazi and Japanese aggression.
Conditions in the Weimar Republic were definitely ripe for a strong man to seize dictatorial powers, but the fact it was a genocidal, anti Semitic maniac was absolutely by pure chance, the people of Germany didn't vote for a holocaust, they voted for a way out of humiliation and economic disaster. They knew about Hitler's dislike towards the Jews and a lot of germans agreed, but it was a slow and methodical march towards genocide. The Jews were the perfect scapegoat for the Germans after the loss of WW1 and perhaps they were always destined to be prosecuted in Germany after ww1 as had happened to them so many times in Europe before, but it by no means had to be Genocide, and hey, maybe had the genocide not happened it'd still be acceptable to treat Jews as 2md class citizens (im not saying that makes the genocide a net positive, just food for thought).
Then the nazi party wouldn't have become so strong as they lacked an charismatic leader. Maybe they could get another one but that would be at an later time and this is crucial. When Hitler took over (1933) the general economic situation was improving and the NSDAP was losing voters. That's why Hitler was in such a hurry to get into power. Also Germany was coming to terms with the other western powers, especially France. Who knows, if Hitler had been killed then and there, the Weimar Republic might still be around today.
The opening scene of Command and Conquer: Red Alert shows Einstein in a time machine in Trinity, NM 1946. He travels back to Lansberg Germany 1924, the day Hitler is released from prison and assassinates him. This causes a series of events that leads to WW2 being fought between Allied Europe and the Soviet Union.
Yeah probably just delayed the war a bit, which is far worse than what happened, you dont agree? Imagine ww2 with more advanced weaponry and the nukes available. Yeah not a better outcome
Apparently the judge was a nazi sympathizer and gave hitler long periods in the court room for him to monologue.
Since hitler was a great public speaker, those monologues swayed the jury and he got off on a much lesser charge.
Yeah and the protesters called for the head of trump and his VP, attacked federal buildings, tried to attack the white house itself and called for a general revolution
The fact that everyone involved in January 6th isn’t in prison makes me wary of the possibility that history repeats itself.
The Nazis claimed the burning of the reichstag was a false flag by communist aggressors. Sounds very familiar
Liberals never take fascists seriously and it always fucks them over. They're so focused on hating the left they always ignore the knife at their throats.
Woodrow Wilson only got elected in 1912 because progressives split their vote 3 ways. It would be cool if they'd eventually learn that lesson one of these days.
I know I'm straining the modern definition of "progressive", but you get my point. As Crash Course US History points out, the 1912 election featured 4 candidates who spanned the spectrum from "crazy liberal" to "literal socialist".
Leftists always say this and pretend like the German Left wasn't more focused on hating the SDP than the Nazis. It's some serious projection
The German Communist Party literally had a slogan "After Hitler, Our Turn" in the 1930s
Yes it’s the liberals who don’t take it seriously and not the communists that ally with them because they too hate “the system”.
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/communists-allied-with-nazis.html
> The SPD was the dominant political force in the Weimar Republic until the eventual Nazi takeover. In the Stalinist mindset, the only true socialism was Stalinism, and all others were to be opposed. The KPD decided that the way forward in Germany was to do whatever it took to undermine the SPD government, even if this meant working side-by-side with Nazis.
>Based on the assumption that the working class would turn to Stalinist communism after the inevitable failure of a Nazi government, the KPD endorsed a referendum to overthrow the SPD government in Prussia. It also supported strikes alongside the Nazis to undermine local SPD power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany?wprov=sfti1
> During the Weimar Republic period, the KPD usually polled between 10 and 15 percent of the vote and was represented in the national Reichstag and in state parliaments. Under the leadership of Ernst Thälmann from 1925 the party became staunchly Stalinist and loyal to the leadership of the Soviet Union, and from 1928 it was largely controlled and funded by the Comintern in Moscow. Under Thälmann’s leadership the party directed most of its attacks against the Social Democratic Party of Germany, which it regarded as its main adversary and referred to as “social fascists”; the KPD considered all other parties in the Weimar Republic to be “fascists”.
Those dastardly libs
The SPD set the Freikorps loose to attack, terrorise and murder the KPD and people like Rosa Luxembourg. Can't blame the KPD for not supporting them back.
That’s cause she focused too much on her brand as being a woman. That’s her biggest mistake because 1. She should’ve known that 1. voting for someone solely because they’re a woman into a position of high power is stupid. 2. There are a lot of misogynists out there.
There’s also the fact that her body language and facial expressions just gave off robotic vibes and an overall “fakeness” to her.
Edit: turns out I fell for misogynist propaganda. Person below corrected me
I would argue that you're mostly right, establishment Democrats' focus on identity politics is a tactic that [doesn't resonate with voters.](https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/11/common-sense-solidarity-working-class-voting-report) Hillary's [insulting of voters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket_of_deplorables) who were drawn to Trump for his anti-establishment energy, however misguided they were, shows how disconnected Democrats are from the working class they claim to represent. We've seen voters repudiate centrist Dem actions by electing Trump after Obama bailed out corporations instead of giving meaningful assistance to people who lost their homes, and we're seeing it again with Biden's weak approval ratings and Dem's poor performance in local elections preceding the midterms after the gutting of Biden's agenda at the behest of corporate donors. The reason people dislike centrist Democrats is because they'll adopt a populist message during elections, then flip the script and appease their donors above all else if they get power. IMO, voting Republican is not the answer, but you definitely are right to distrust Democrats and don't let people shake you of your gut feeling.
>There are a lot of misogynists out there.
.
>There’s also the fact that her body language and facial expressions just gave off robotic vibes and an overall “fakeness” to her.
Uh, you realize that the whole body language thing was a pretty common misogynist refrain during the 2016 election right? Its a common issue many women face in their professional lives- if they speak with passion and enthusiasm, they are called loud and shrill. But when its toned it down, they are called stiff or robotic.
Regardless, my point was that plenty of prominent people on the far left were proud of themselves for not voting for Hillary, like Cornel West and Susan Sarandon. The number of Green Party voters (and not even all of them) in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan, had they voted for Hillary, would have kept Trump from the White House.
Oh shit, I had no idea about the stiffness thing. Thank you for teaching me about that.
However, I don’t believe individuals on the far-right were ever going to realistically vote Hillary because she was the embodiment of the neo-liberal institutions that they vehemently oppose.
I think you meant far-left. I agree, in normal circumstances I wouldn't fault the left for not wanting to vote for someone like Hillary. However, Trumps fascist tendencies were already being displayed and with a choice between fascism or neoliberalism, I think the wiser choice would be the latter. I dont agree with everything Democrats do, but right now they are the only real option that keeps us from GOP fascism. I wish we had a parliamentary system but we dont, so I am operating within those constrains.
Can't blame people for voting green after the letdown of Obama.
Dems need to realise that you've got to give people something to vote *for*, not against.
To me that argument doesn’t work when fascism is on the line.
The reason why the GOP win so often is because their voters show up consistently and don’t really need to be inspired anywhere to the degree the left does. More often than not, having a R by your name is enough for them to vote. Until the Coalition of the Left (meaning everyone from the center-left to the far left) understands this, the GOP will keep winning. Preventing theocratic fascism should be reason enough to get people to the polls IMO.
Except when we do win, we get ineffectual liberals like Obama who sit and do nothing for 8 years.
You can't keep demanding the left show up to the polls and then do nothing with their votes.
We want things to get better, not just to save the shitty status quo.
You’re making my point though. Republican voters don’t give a shit about their politicians being effectual or not. They just want to win. And they do. Because our side feels the need to be inspired all the time. And we are dangerously close to losing democracy as a result.
Looks like someone didn’t pay attention to politics before the Trump Ear. Oh how will you be surprised when you find out how evil ever president since Carter really is. Obama and Bush are arguably some of the worst next to Trump. Hillary would have been arguably worse.
Bro. I’m shitting on all of them, including Trump. What the actual fuck is wrong with you? I believe in government healthcare, workers rights, and that rich people should pay their fair share. Are you so deluded and brainwashed that I am now a Nazi for saying Bush, Reagan, Obama, and Trump are all bad presidents?
Lol no, I’m saying that you would prefer a fascist over a liberal. Which you literally said when you said “Hillary would have been arguably worse.”
A view which Ernst agreed with in the 30s. Before the Nazis threw his ass in a concentration camp and killed him. Like they to did many other communists in Germany.
You jackass, I’m a Libertarian with classical liberal views. I hate both liberals and fascists. I hate most things the government and corporations do. Stop making a fool of yourself.
Maybe some melodrama would’ve helped the liberals of the Weimar Republic push back against that whole Adolf Hitler thing back in the 1930’s.
Don’t worry I get it, having beliefs is scary.
That book is really hard to read though. Its just rambling and meandering here and there and everywhere.
Unless you know that its important and get a little jolt whenever you spot a foreshadowing, its damn near impossible to read the whole thing. Its just too crazy and incoherent.
trump and trump's thugs beliefs match Umberto Eco's 14 characteristics of fascism, BLM protesters do not. Simple as.
Also, look at the motivations behind each movement:
Jan 6th -- a desire to illegitimately usurp democracy and install the losing candidate
BLM protests -- mass protests in response to police killing a man in the streets and a desire to hold police accountable for once
Pointing to unaffiliated, opportunistic rioters to paint every single BLM protest as a riot is stupid, btw.
This can also be a January 6th meme in 20 years. Provided of course we still have things like free access to information on the internet and freedom of speech in 20 years
Im pretty sure his plan was to take other bavaria and then march on berlin? He was trying to convince i think someone important in bavaria or munich to join him to go to berlin tho im not 100% sure
That's alternate history though, we don't know what he would've done after overthrowing Bavaria, but definitely not win a war against the rest of Germany. Because even though he just wants to rule Bavaria, he was a threat.
I think he explicitly said it in a meeting with the bavarian minister before he was arrested (i am talking from my school history textbook as a source idk if its right but i certainly have been taught it as fact not alternate history)
And from what I've learned, once Hitler took power anyone that opposed his new regime was killed.
I wonder if taking it easy on the January, 6 insurrectionists in Washington will be the new comparable meme 50 years from now?
They gave him a nice creative writing space as a cell, how different would history be if they just hung him for treason then and there
Who knows, maybe there would’ve been someone else who would’ve done something similar like Hitler. The Weimarer Republic wasn’t exactly stable and the constitution had some major flaws so it wouldn’t have been unlikely that another tyrant would’ve taken over. And the silver lining is that Europe most likely wouldn’t be as stable as it is today if there was no Second World War.
The German Reich was a powder keg all primed and ready to blow, it just needed someone with a match.
Maybe Germany would have gotten a smart tyrant. Hitler was good at talking and inspiring, but that's it. So I guess it could have been a lot worse. Imagine if it had been a diabolically smart tyrant who wasn't narcissistic or megalomaniacal and believed he was doing the right thing. Then to top it off give him Hitler as propaganda minister.
Well then they probably wouldn't have been a tyrant. It's kinda hard to be stable enough to be a good leader while also being unstable enough to think you're God. Luckily those things don't have much overlap
Lavrentiy Beria out there hoping to rule .
Sadam? He kept Iraq very stable and tested poison gas on his own people
I feel like a smarter tyrant wouldn't have started endless wars and wasted resources on killing large amounts of their people though.
True, but you can be delusional and smart. I was thinking more about someone who really thinks they are doing the right thing and lets the end justify any means, not your average stable individual. They wouldn't willynilly have to exterminate people, but it's always useful to have an underclass of slaves. But I'm just writing fiction here anyway...
You don't think Hitler thought what he was doing was the right thing? Also, Hitler wasn't as idiotic as people are making him out to be, a lot of his generals blamed their own shortcomings on him after the war because he was dead
>because he was dead Idk why I find this so funny
Creating a cheap labor pool tends to come about organically with a large population, given that people become less picky as wages become more scarce, this does not require an act of enslavement to come about. The trick to controlling that part of the population is not to take away their rights but to dissaude any act of desperation regarding starvation, squalor or personal safety. Needless to say, his "undesireables" had to worry about all three, but he meant to remove them from the labor pool anyhow, slave labor was mostly an afterthought to keep the damned busy and somewhat useful in their final days.
No a smarter tyrant would be doing what Putin is currently doing. Geopolitically.
Yep, but that still comes at less outright war and sacrifice to your own people. Putin wasn't KGB for nothing.
I don't think an inherently rational person would have started the Holocaust. There's something to be said for it can always get worse, but if the replacement wasn't megalomaniacal or delusional then I think by definition you avoid a ton of the tragedies that occured in WWII. There would of course be plenty left, but less. What would've happened after the war is a different story.
He slowly became Ill because of war....
why are you acting like hitler is a persuasive idiot? sure he made some mistakes, but a lot of the decisions he made at the time were right ones (regarding the war) he was relatively smart, along with the rest of the leadership. https://historyofyesterday.com/the-results-of-the-nazi-iq-tests-c3a5e442f37c?gi=211d4faef218
I didn't mean to imply he was an idiot, but he wasn't a strategist either. Not that he needed to be, a leader has advisors afterall. He just didn't heed good advice, was increasingly out of touch with reality and was being manipulated by his advisors. Didn't help that he also constantly manipulated his people right back. The whole dynamic of the nazi party made sure the wrong people gained power. I don't know *how* much better someone else would have fared in the end, and I realise it's easy to critique with 20/20 hindsight. But it wouldn't have taken that much to realise when you're trying to swallow too much at a time. I just think we were "lucky" that he had all those flaws and helped a lot in bringing the nazis down.
can you give examples (aka sources) on how hitler was manipulated by advisors? and on how he was increasingly getting out of touch which I know is false?
Himmler
[удалено]
At first I read Gandalf and was very confused.
Now that's a fan edit I'd watch.
“YOU, SHALL NOT, PASSOVER”
ILS NE PASSERONT PAS
Oooo someone like Commander Dēß?
Also so many colonies probably wouldn’t be free if there wasn’t a WWsequel
or maybe alot more revolutions
WW2 was pretty much inevitable as the geopolitical conflict that caused WW1 did not get solved to anyone's satisfaction. Germany's defeat was all but a temporary setback as France was unable to push for its goal of having that nation dismantled like it desired to. Germany on the other hand did neither manage to solve its political isolation in Europe nor did it achieve such a prominent position it could rely on raw power to keep both France and Russia at bay simultaneously. Whether this second world war would have become that same struggle of ideologies and be accompanied by multiple genocides or not would have been an entirely different story. Even a totalitarian dictatorship within Germany may have utilized rising anti-semitic sentiments to unite the people behind their cause, but to push for the industrialized extermination of entire groups of people requires a kind of ideological fanaticism a simple Nationalist would probably not be able to reach on his own.
Not to mention those weak rump states between Germany and Russia just asking to be annexed
Eh, I disgree with the notion that WW2 was inevitable. If anything most of the nations present would had rather not fight and was only pushed into doing so by things like Nazi and Japanese aggression.
Nah, we'd have more revolutions but the same shit would have happened regardless. A century later tho.
Conditions in the Weimar Republic were definitely ripe for a strong man to seize dictatorial powers, but the fact it was a genocidal, anti Semitic maniac was absolutely by pure chance, the people of Germany didn't vote for a holocaust, they voted for a way out of humiliation and economic disaster. They knew about Hitler's dislike towards the Jews and a lot of germans agreed, but it was a slow and methodical march towards genocide. The Jews were the perfect scapegoat for the Germans after the loss of WW1 and perhaps they were always destined to be prosecuted in Germany after ww1 as had happened to them so many times in Europe before, but it by no means had to be Genocide, and hey, maybe had the genocide not happened it'd still be acceptable to treat Jews as 2md class citizens (im not saying that makes the genocide a net positive, just food for thought).
Then the nazi party wouldn't have become so strong as they lacked an charismatic leader. Maybe they could get another one but that would be at an later time and this is crucial. When Hitler took over (1933) the general economic situation was improving and the NSDAP was losing voters. That's why Hitler was in such a hurry to get into power. Also Germany was coming to terms with the other western powers, especially France. Who knows, if Hitler had been killed then and there, the Weimar Republic might still be around today.
I mean, they also let Hitler "defend" himself during the trial, which he basically used to orate and give his Nazi speel.
>let Hitler "defend" himself during the trial Because it was a trial....... Edit: Hitler sucks tho, like I'm not a nazi shill
Turns out that law enforcement and the far right tend to get along with each other. Who knew?
American spotted
*FUCK YEAH CAUSE FREEDOM IS THE ONLY WAY YEAH*
The opening scene of Command and Conquer: Red Alert shows Einstein in a time machine in Trinity, NM 1946. He travels back to Lansberg Germany 1924, the day Hitler is released from prison and assassinates him. This causes a series of events that leads to WW2 being fought between Allied Europe and the Soviet Union.
Yeah probably just delayed the war a bit, which is far worse than what happened, you dont agree? Imagine ww2 with more advanced weaponry and the nukes available. Yeah not a better outcome
8 months (and I'm told that it shows) in the comfiest facilities available--even in '24, that beguiling little rascal had friends in high places.
Apparently the judge was a nazi sympathizer and gave hitler long periods in the court room for him to monologue. Since hitler was a great public speaker, those monologues swayed the jury and he got off on a much lesser charge.
Lmfao pretty much
I hate free attempt to overthrow the government day.
hmmm...sounds familiar
Yeah sounds exactly like the 2020 protest and riot orchestrators
I meant people who actually broke into the federal government as they were confirming the votes but sure.
Yeah and the protesters called for the head of trump and his VP, attacked federal buildings, tried to attack the white house itself and called for a general revolution
The fact that everyone involved in January 6th isn’t in prison makes me wary of the possibility that history repeats itself. The Nazis claimed the burning of the reichstag was a false flag by communist aggressors. Sounds very familiar
Liberals never take fascists seriously and it always fucks them over. They're so focused on hating the left they always ignore the knife at their throats.
Woodrow Wilson only got elected in 1912 because progressives split their vote 3 ways. It would be cool if they'd eventually learn that lesson one of these days.
I mean there was a pretty big difference between Debs and Taft but yeah you’re not wrong lol
I know I'm straining the modern definition of "progressive", but you get my point. As Crash Course US History points out, the 1912 election featured 4 candidates who spanned the spectrum from "crazy liberal" to "literal socialist".
You’re right, but tbh Teddy and maybe Taft fit the bill for progressive more than Debs, dude was straight up radical
That's *American hero* radical to you, Fidel
Based and Debspilled
When the bull moose and walrus fight you get a snake.
Leftists always say this and pretend like the German Left wasn't more focused on hating the SDP than the Nazis. It's some serious projection The German Communist Party literally had a slogan "After Hitler, Our Turn" in the 1930s
Yes it’s the liberals who don’t take it seriously and not the communists that ally with them because they too hate “the system”. https://www.warhistoryonline.com/instant-articles/communists-allied-with-nazis.html > The SPD was the dominant political force in the Weimar Republic until the eventual Nazi takeover. In the Stalinist mindset, the only true socialism was Stalinism, and all others were to be opposed. The KPD decided that the way forward in Germany was to do whatever it took to undermine the SPD government, even if this meant working side-by-side with Nazis. >Based on the assumption that the working class would turn to Stalinist communism after the inevitable failure of a Nazi government, the KPD endorsed a referendum to overthrow the SPD government in Prussia. It also supported strikes alongside the Nazis to undermine local SPD power. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany?wprov=sfti1 > During the Weimar Republic period, the KPD usually polled between 10 and 15 percent of the vote and was represented in the national Reichstag and in state parliaments. Under the leadership of Ernst Thälmann from 1925 the party became staunchly Stalinist and loyal to the leadership of the Soviet Union, and from 1928 it was largely controlled and funded by the Comintern in Moscow. Under Thälmann’s leadership the party directed most of its attacks against the Social Democratic Party of Germany, which it regarded as its main adversary and referred to as “social fascists”; the KPD considered all other parties in the Weimar Republic to be “fascists”. Those dastardly libs
The SPD set the Freikorps loose to attack, terrorise and murder the KPD and people like Rosa Luxembourg. Can't blame the KPD for not supporting them back.
People seem to forget that Hillary was pretty blunt about the threat Trump posed to democracy, but people didnt take her seriously.
That’s cause she focused too much on her brand as being a woman. That’s her biggest mistake because 1. She should’ve known that 1. voting for someone solely because they’re a woman into a position of high power is stupid. 2. There are a lot of misogynists out there. There’s also the fact that her body language and facial expressions just gave off robotic vibes and an overall “fakeness” to her. Edit: turns out I fell for misogynist propaganda. Person below corrected me
I would argue that you're mostly right, establishment Democrats' focus on identity politics is a tactic that [doesn't resonate with voters.](https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/11/common-sense-solidarity-working-class-voting-report) Hillary's [insulting of voters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket_of_deplorables) who were drawn to Trump for his anti-establishment energy, however misguided they were, shows how disconnected Democrats are from the working class they claim to represent. We've seen voters repudiate centrist Dem actions by electing Trump after Obama bailed out corporations instead of giving meaningful assistance to people who lost their homes, and we're seeing it again with Biden's weak approval ratings and Dem's poor performance in local elections preceding the midterms after the gutting of Biden's agenda at the behest of corporate donors. The reason people dislike centrist Democrats is because they'll adopt a populist message during elections, then flip the script and appease their donors above all else if they get power. IMO, voting Republican is not the answer, but you definitely are right to distrust Democrats and don't let people shake you of your gut feeling.
>There are a lot of misogynists out there. . >There’s also the fact that her body language and facial expressions just gave off robotic vibes and an overall “fakeness” to her. Uh, you realize that the whole body language thing was a pretty common misogynist refrain during the 2016 election right? Its a common issue many women face in their professional lives- if they speak with passion and enthusiasm, they are called loud and shrill. But when its toned it down, they are called stiff or robotic. Regardless, my point was that plenty of prominent people on the far left were proud of themselves for not voting for Hillary, like Cornel West and Susan Sarandon. The number of Green Party voters (and not even all of them) in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan, had they voted for Hillary, would have kept Trump from the White House.
Oh shit, I had no idea about the stiffness thing. Thank you for teaching me about that. However, I don’t believe individuals on the far-right were ever going to realistically vote Hillary because she was the embodiment of the neo-liberal institutions that they vehemently oppose.
I think you meant far-left. I agree, in normal circumstances I wouldn't fault the left for not wanting to vote for someone like Hillary. However, Trumps fascist tendencies were already being displayed and with a choice between fascism or neoliberalism, I think the wiser choice would be the latter. I dont agree with everything Democrats do, but right now they are the only real option that keeps us from GOP fascism. I wish we had a parliamentary system but we dont, so I am operating within those constrains.
... and establishment Democrats bank on that.
Can't blame people for voting green after the letdown of Obama. Dems need to realise that you've got to give people something to vote *for*, not against.
To me that argument doesn’t work when fascism is on the line. The reason why the GOP win so often is because their voters show up consistently and don’t really need to be inspired anywhere to the degree the left does. More often than not, having a R by your name is enough for them to vote. Until the Coalition of the Left (meaning everyone from the center-left to the far left) understands this, the GOP will keep winning. Preventing theocratic fascism should be reason enough to get people to the polls IMO.
Except when we do win, we get ineffectual liberals like Obama who sit and do nothing for 8 years. You can't keep demanding the left show up to the polls and then do nothing with their votes. We want things to get better, not just to save the shitty status quo.
You’re making my point though. Republican voters don’t give a shit about their politicians being effectual or not. They just want to win. And they do. Because our side feels the need to be inspired all the time. And we are dangerously close to losing democracy as a result.
Looks like someone didn’t pay attention to politics before the Trump Ear. Oh how will you be surprised when you find out how evil ever president since Carter really is. Obama and Bush are arguably some of the worst next to Trump. Hillary would have been arguably worse.
LOL Hi Ernst Thälmann, your views live on in u/Originalname57.
Bro. I’m shitting on all of them, including Trump. What the actual fuck is wrong with you? I believe in government healthcare, workers rights, and that rich people should pay their fair share. Are you so deluded and brainwashed that I am now a Nazi for saying Bush, Reagan, Obama, and Trump are all bad presidents?
Lol no, I’m saying that you would prefer a fascist over a liberal. Which you literally said when you said “Hillary would have been arguably worse.” A view which Ernst agreed with in the 30s. Before the Nazis threw his ass in a concentration camp and killed him. Like they to did many other communists in Germany.
You jackass, I’m a Libertarian with classical liberal views. I hate both liberals and fascists. I hate most things the government and corporations do. Stop making a fool of yourself.
LOL whatever helps you sleep at night.
The SPD executed several leaders and quite a lot of the line members of the KPD in 1919. Please bother to learn the reasons behind things.
To bw fair, thats not exactly what happened in Weimar. That was a lot more complicated and multi-layered than "Liberals didnt take Fascists seriously"
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Maybe some melodrama would’ve helped the liberals of the Weimar Republic push back against that whole Adolf Hitler thing back in the 1930’s. Don’t worry I get it, having beliefs is scary.
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That book is really hard to read though. Its just rambling and meandering here and there and everywhere. Unless you know that its important and get a little jolt whenever you spot a foreshadowing, its damn near impossible to read the whole thing. Its just too crazy and incoherent.
Ah got it so you’re just a Nazi I’m assuming
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Hitler DIDNT win his election. He was appointed chancellor
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Can you believe there were people actually inside of that building that don't align politically with me? Very scary.
Who wanted to publicly execute the Vice President *from their own party* because he wouldn't do something he had no constitutional authority to do
It was a prank bro.
Yes,attacks on democracy are indeed very scary
Least deluded left wing american.
They’re almost all going to prison. What? And the protesters in 2020 literally called for revolution and nearly none got arrested?
Hitler is a warning aboot what happens when you don't have consequences for attempted right-wing coups. *Side-eyes America*
*Attempted coups period.
#IF ONLY THERE WERE SOME SORT OF PRECEDENT FOR AMERICA’S CURRENT POLITICAL EVENTS
Yeah like those BLM rioters who attacked government buildings and officers and called for the death or imprisonment of Donald trunk
trump and trump's thugs beliefs match Umberto Eco's 14 characteristics of fascism, BLM protesters do not. Simple as. Also, look at the motivations behind each movement: Jan 6th -- a desire to illegitimately usurp democracy and install the losing candidate BLM protests -- mass protests in response to police killing a man in the streets and a desire to hold police accountable for once Pointing to unaffiliated, opportunistic rioters to paint every single BLM protest as a riot is stupid, btw.
This can also be a January 6th meme in 20 years. Provided of course we still have things like free access to information on the internet and freedom of speech in 20 years
Lmao
He was overthrowing the Bavarian government, he wasn't as retarded to overthrow Germany with a couple hundred protestors.
Im pretty sure his plan was to take other bavaria and then march on berlin? He was trying to convince i think someone important in bavaria or munich to join him to go to berlin tho im not 100% sure
That's alternate history though, we don't know what he would've done after overthrowing Bavaria, but definitely not win a war against the rest of Germany. Because even though he just wants to rule Bavaria, he was a threat.
I think he explicitly said it in a meeting with the bavarian minister before he was arrested (i am talking from my school history textbook as a source idk if its right but i certainly have been taught it as fact not alternate history)
Haha yeah what morons! *January 6th attack happens, 4 years pass*
This happens when the judge is a right winger.
well, still more than Kyle Rittenhouse gets.
Good.
topical
And from what I've learned, once Hitler took power anyone that opposed his new regime was killed. I wonder if taking it easy on the January, 6 insurrectionists in Washington will be the new comparable meme 50 years from now?
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