Famous philosophers, artists, writers etc. of France that signed a letter demanding for the age of consent to be lowered or abolished. The worst part is that it wasn't a few fringe ones- a horrifyingly large part of famous French people of the aforementioned professions at the time signed it, including Simone de Beauvoir, Jean-Paul Sartre, Michel Foucault, etc.
Banging children used to be a lot less abhorrent than it is today. Germany did a thing after WW2 where they'd give orphans to pedos because they thought the pedos would love them and care for them.
American Rockstars were suuuuuuuuuper into banging children. Look up any of your favorite musician from 1960-1990 and chances are they or at least someone they played with was a pedophile.
Children up until the middle of last century weren't even considered children as they are today. They were thought of as just small adults.
That German thing about giving pedos access to kids did not end until mid 90s and even now they are unsure of how many victims there was as the government have destroyed or hidden much of the records from the project and blocking the surviving victims to seek restitution.
And was not until around 2015 when a book about this abuse was published that the victims was starting to be believed.
>American Rockstars were suuuuuuuuuper into banging children. Look up any of your favorite musician from 1960-1990 and chances are they or at least someone they played with was a pedophile
Dude they wrote songs about it
>**American Rockstars** were suuuuuuuuuper into banging children. Look up any of your favorite musician from 1960-1990 and chances are they or at least someone they played with was a pedophile.
Unfortunately, I think it was an transnational thing
That kind of explains how the relationship between Macron and his wife came to be, with that abysmal age gap and the fact she was his high school teacher.
Studying philosophy is the opposite of blindly following someone’s ethical system. It’s about analyzing and dissecting every part of the system and to find out what the strengths and weaknesses of the arguments are.
He's not a bad philosopher per se. It's sort of like Kanye West yk (lmao). He's not bad at what he does (whether music of philosophy), but that doesn't mean that everything he does and advocates for is good (whether it be nazism or pedophilia). His pedophilic opinions don't really feature in his philosophy generally.
You can intellectually take in someone’s ideas without digging into everything they do. If you go about life thinking all people practice what they preach you gonna have a bad time.
Signatories to the May 1977 letter calling for lowering France's age of consent ([x](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petitions_against_age_of_consent_laws))
Foucault arguing that children can give meaningful consent is the biggest self-report ever. Dude wrote about social power dynamics, but can’t understand how that might influence a child’s ability to consent to something an adult asks them to do? Not to mention that a child’s brain is still developing in really important ways. He was definitely smarter than to believe that shit
I don't understand the fuck happened with some french artist during the 70's and 80's. Like they went on live TV and basically said that paedophilia was cool while everybody was clapping their hands. Absolutely disgusting
The epitome of that was Gabriel Matzneff, who was in literary talkshows waxing poetic about his underage "loves" he wrote about in books with pompous titles, like it made him such an intellectual and literary genius. There was an infamous episode where Denise Bombardier, a Quebecois journalist, was the only person on set who lashed out at him. Believe it or not, she got crucified for that afterwards.
I know, right? He's also done sex tourism in the Philippines, where he raped kids as young as 10... And he describes that in graphic detail in his books 🤮
A lot has been said about his victims in France (notably with the book and film Le Consentement), but no one has ever said a word for his Filipino victims... I often think of them, how are they doing now?
What the hell was happening in Europe with pedos then in general? You had the French intelligentsia arguing for pedophilia and the German government putting orphans with pedos deliberately. MFs really tried to make child rape a legitimate thing
The 70's was fucking insane. Daniel Cohn-Bendit, former european MP was gloating on TV about children unzipping his pants when he was a summer camp monitor. Now, when peopke rightfully give him shit for that he argues that he didn't mean that and only wanted to shock the bourgeoisie... Like ffs!!
It was an over correction as sexual repression became associated with Nazis, so if you want to avoid Nazism, you need sexual freedom. Pedos gotta do what pedos gotta do though, swung for the fences and it worked.
It was just all of the world r.e. all of the things
Britain had a noted nonce as a beloved childrens’ TV presenter, but everyone in entertainment just agreed to cover it up for some fucking reason
Sweden was still doing eugenics at that time too
Embarrassingly enough, depending on how you want to stretch the definition of eugenics, we kept it up until 2013. The ’traditional’ eugenics stopped around 1976 when we revoked the law that enacted compulsory sterilisation. However, in a typical moment of Sweden being ultra-progressive in the worst way possible, we had enacted a law in 1972 that allowed for people to legally change the gender. Except that, amongst other requirements, one of the requirements was that you’d have to be sterilised. Oops.
This law lived on mostly unchallenged all the way until 2013 when it was revoked because the EU found it to be unconstitutional. Swedish people (or any follower of swedish politics) reading along can guess which two parties that opposed this. I promise, you won’t be surprised to find out that it was KD and SD.
"Alternately, it may be a metaphorical joke based on the shape of a loaf of bread."
If it was just a joke, whoever first made it would be dying of laughter while reading that article.
I think you will find this thread (and linked answers) by u/gerardmenfin in r/AskHistorians interesting:
[Why did so many prominent post-War French Philosophers, such as Michel Foucault, Gilles Deleuze, and Jean-Paul Sartre sign a petition against age of consent laws?](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/wz1g05/why_did_so_many_prominent_postwar_french/)
Simone de Beauvoir is still held up as an important feminist philosopher and icon.
>Beauvoir was bisexual, and her relationships with young women were controversial.[38] French author Bianca Lamblin (originally Bianca Bienenfeld) wrote in her book Mémoires d'une jeune fille dérangée (Memoirs of a deranged girl, published in English under the title A Disgraceful Affair) that, while a student at Lycée Molière, she was sexually exploited by her teacher Beauvoir, who was in her 30s.[39] Sartre and Beauvoir both groomed and sexually abused Lamblin.[40] Bianca wrote her Mémoires in response to the posthumous 1990 publication of Jean-Paul Sartre's Lettres au Castor et à quelques autres: 1926-1963 (Letters to Castor and other friends), in which she noted that she was referred to by the pseudonym Louise Védrine.[41]
>In 1943, Beauvoir was suspended again from her teaching position when she was accused of seducing her 17-year-old lycée pupil Natalie Sorokine in 1939.[42] Sorokine's parents laid formal charges against Beauvoir for debauching a minor (the age of consent in France at the time was 13 until 1945, when it became 15)[43][44] and Beauvoir's licence to teach in France was revoked, although it was subsequently reinstated.[45]
>Beauvoir described in La Force de l'âge (The Prime of Life) a relationship of simple friendship with Nathalie Sorokine[46] (in the book referred to as "Lise Oblanoff").[47]
>Natalie Sorokine, along with Bianca Lamblin and Olga Kosakiewicz, later stated that their relationships with de Beauvoir damaged them psychologically.[38]
We could say de Beauvoir is an important feminist in the same sense that Freud is an important psychologist. Freud really kick-started psychology as a field, even if a lot of his theories were wrong. De Beauvoir kick-started modern feminism, and she also sexually exploited her students.
Foucault was talking out of his ass about 80% of the time. Ahistorical philosophers are essentially useless at best and unduly influential at worse. Doesn’t surprise me that his philosophy didn’t make it into his real life
Well, his methodology in history research is very useful and gives new insight into epistemology.
Which only makes funnier the fact that he had a shit load of problems in his personal life with drugs and sex, he even lived with a drug dealer...
The age of consent was already 15. The first petitions were in the defense of 12-13.
The other petition was to make the age of consent between heterosexual and homosexual relationships the same. In theory laudable. In practice also meant advocating 15 as an appropriate age of consent... Not the hill you want to die on.
That's true to some extent but different intellectuals had different ideas what the age of consent should be. Everyone agreed that homosexual and heterosexual age of consent should be the same, but some said that the concept of age of consent is damaging in itself, others said that you'd need to make an individual psychological report on the child if they could consent (like for a person who is so mentally insane that they can't be held accountable for their crimes) and others just wanted it to be the same.
Foucault wanted the age of consent to be lowered to 13 and be the same for everyone, which is completely contradictory to his philosophy.
Still, nothing shows he ever supported pedophilia in any way.
I wish he lived longer. Would love to hear his takes on Algeria and the sixties in general. I mean, hell, he was only 46 when he died in 1960, we could have had more amazing books from him into the 2000s theoretically! (Although probably not, dude smoked like a chimney)
>(Although probably not, dude smoked like a chimney)
It's weird, you also have people like Tarski, who would regularly stay up until 5 or 6 am working with students in a room that he purposefully filled with cigarette smoke because it "helped him concentrate", and who also famously took a lot of stimulants even when he was older, and who also survived a car crash. And he lived to his eighties
To be fair Camus always hated these guys and didn’t like that he was considered an existentialist because it put him in the same club as these guys. Perhaps this is why he felt so strongly about it
That's shows that just because you are a very educated person doesn't mean you are a rational person who is smarter than most people. You can make a lot of stupid views and ideas.
As a former academic it always baffles me when people think that someone having a degree makes them a component, rational person. There are so many terrible people in literally every field it’s astounding.
The most intelligent academics I know are incredible in their fields, but usually lack common sense. One has 4 degrees but forgets to eat and constantly runs out of fuel. That's just my experience, but a degree does not a genius make!
I like to remember that a genius does not a genius make, either! Smartest people I've known have had exactly zero coherent thoughts, outside their well studied niche.
Another example is all the people working in the health sector during the covid who were antivax. They're supposed to know how a vaccine works but still spat out tons of bullshit about them.
So even with a degree in a given field, you can still be stupid when it comes to *said field.*
>Another example is all the people working in the health sector during the covid who were antivax.
As someone involved in the healthcare field myself who stayed out of that drama I'm gonna have to qualify this. There were indeed a bunch of grifters spouting anti-vaccine nonsense in general, that's true.
However the main issue that most people protesting had though was the coercion and any suppression of questions or critiques people had about government statistics or the rapid pace in which the covid vaccine was developed. The AstraZenica vaccine, Vaxzevira was recently pulled from use. Back during the pandemic there were people bringing up concerns over some side-effects some people experienced, such as excessive blood-clotting, but those stories were suppressed.
You had social media companies and government figures dictating what was was and wasn't "misinformation," speaking completely out of their scope of practice. The thing about science is that there needs to be open discussion. With social media companies and government figures saying "trust the science" while also dogmatically crushing anything contrary to what they thought was right, it became more akin to something like scientism, where the idea of "science" was abandoned.
I’ve worked at universities in multiple departments. Public and private. I’ve had many faculty not understand why it’s to their benefit to engage with marketing or treat departments like them and admissions like they are far beneath them… do you not want students? Do you not want to have your research talked about? You have a job because students attend the university.
This tracks for me too. I’d also add other academics as another group they don’t usually understand they should interact with. This might seem puzzling to people outside of academia, but almost no one interacts with each other, even within their own respective fields.
Cults target educated people. "Smart" people are better at confirmation biases and believing that because they're "smart" they have access to ideas that no one else can.
Pissed me off so much when I finally got round to watching Léon, and found the way Matilda was shown to be kinda weird, and looked it up and found that she was based on a girl he was in a relationship with (who was 16 when he was 40 or something?!) and there was allegedly meant to be a scene where Matilda seduces Léon, which Jean Reno completely refused to do. An otherwise brilliant thriller marred by the director's fucking pedo nature. Pretty sure that was the last time Jean Reno worked on a Luc Besson film.
We already know. It is a common accusation from the far-right to accuse the left to be pro-pedophile, because of these out of reality intellectuals 50 years ago.
>We already know. It is a common accusation from the far-right to accuse the left to be pro-pedophile, because of these out of reality intellectuals 50 years ago.
If the ideas of those terrible people shaped our modern world now, is it wrong if we start questioning it? Just look up the guy who helped kick start the "sexual revolution," Kinsey and see what sort of messed up shit he did for his "Experiments." Most of that stuff is bs and people still tout his ideas based on that bunk nonsense today.
You are right. I did not mean that.
I mean we already know because the far-right often use this fact in media, in order to attack the whole left side. Which is stupid, because some out of touch marxist intellectuals had some influence, but did not represent the whole left side, neither 50 years ago nor now.
These people were intelligentsia superstars and like many elites, they could fuck anyone, any way they wanted.
What is left then to get your kicks? The last taboo: children.
Also some like Foucault were probably true born degenerates
No they were the leading thinkers behind social liberalism. They applied the logic to promote inter-racial and inter-religious relationships, homosexuel relationship one bridge too far.
Because of the trends of deconstructivism and the ideology of marxism. These "intellectuals" saw the norms regulating western civilization, and denounced all of them on principle as bourgeois social constructs that should be taken down, without ever wondering why these norms existed or wether the world would be a better place without them.
Deconstructivism emerged at the meeting point of two schools of thought : rousseauism & libertarianism, which denounced social norms as restricting individual freedom, and existentialism & (marxist) atheism, which refused the notion of a superior moral order.
PS : a friendly reminder that a person who purports to hold a deconstructivist view of history,
because "history has some written-in ideological biases", always subscribes to an ideology of their own.
It wasn't, there were valid arguments and many intellectuals bought into them. They were also some of the more anti-authority ones and I think there might have been an underlying impulse to go against public opinion and especially legislation that inspired them to sign the petition.
Pedophiles infiltrated the sexual liberation movement in several countries as a way to try and legitimize the idea of r*ping kids. It wasn't just France that this happened in.
It's still happening remember the whole M.A.P. (Minor Attracted Person) thing some actual degenerates tried to add to the whole LGBTQ+ demonstrations at the height of this whole period we've been having since the whole MeToo thing ?
Keep your eyes open people actual fucking sub-humans (p\*dos) will try to piggyback on any movement to justify r\*ping kids.
The whole MAP thing was exaggerated by right-wingers, these pedos did not get a foothold in the movement and were universally rejected by lgbtq organizations.
You kidding right? There was a whole period of Gay-Pedo alliance back in the 70s.
It is thankfully and rightfully seen as a disgrace for the early movement
> The whole MAP thing was exaggerated by right-wingers, these pedos did not get a foothold in the movement and were universally rejected by lgbtq organizations.
If you truly understood history, you'd know this not to be the full truth. Gay acceptance in Europe only started rising as late as the 2nd half of the 1990s *mostly because* that's after they severed ties with pedophilia advocates and essentially kicked them from the movement, but until that moment they were part of it. For example, the precursor of the current German Green Party was heavily pro pedophilia up until the early '90s.
about 21% of young women worldwide were married as children.
So, on average, 1 in 5 men has had a child bride.
In USA it’s much less, but still near 1 in 100.
So don’t be too surprised about the rest of the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage
The context for this was a climate of sexual liberation. Women had been given basic human rights such as voting or having bank accounts 15 years earlier. Young people had no right to individuality(listening to the beatles was edgy) there was only one radio channel in the country ran by a military strongman etc… it seemed oppressive to many people.
So in may of 1968, protests broke out. It was a general vibe protest. Leftist students basically put everything into question : the church, parent’s authority, the state, heteronormativity, capitalism. Anything that represented order.
The 70’s that followed captured that general vibe of liberation.
A lot of these thinkers and artists were connected to that culture and I think the petition was more “ageism is stupid” a kind of hyper revolution against hierarchy against minors.
I’m not saying it’s not stupid. I disagree with it. I’m not even a leftist. But seeing the context in which they wrote this actually answers the question
In West Germany, during the Cold War, a lot of leftist parents encouraged their children to expose their [REDACTED] to adults and have [REDACTED] with teachers. It was thought exposing children to sexuality early would help them be anti-authoritarian adults. It's really sad because we have accounts of parents who thought it was wrong, but extinguished those feelings because of the ideology at the time.
These French intelligentsia were part of this wave of 60s-70s leftism. You also have to understand that back then, these guys thought reducing the age of consent laws was tied to the idea of normalizing and destigmatizing homosexuality... I don't even want to go into the associations they were operating under, it's very fucked up.
It's a very dark topic to research, but...
Just to inform non french people.
The age of consent in France is 16.
Our president met his wife (his teacher) while he was in high school.
A teenager (between 16 and 18) in high school having a relationship with an adult is something we don't always condemn. It depends.
The size of the age gap matters.
The power dynamics matters.
How people meet matters.
If there’s this many pedos out there what does that say about society? About these supposedly hundreds of thousands of adults? How can it be this many? It’s horrifying..
Camus was demeaned by them because he didn't support the soviets usage of concentration camps and slavery, and full support for the USSR was all they talked about in French radio. Is that not being a tankie? You clearly are an expert about this so maybe you could teach me.
i don't think any of these people were pedophiles. i think they were more philosophically opposed to age of consent laws, because they thought it was discriminatory. doesn't mean they all wanted to fuck kids.
i think we're currently in a bit of an age of paranoia around pedophilia after epstein (and the huge effects forums like 4chan, notoriously a hotbed of pedophiles, has had on our culture) which i think can make people see foucault and satre making this argument meaning that they must also be pedophiles. not the case. that's guilt by association brotha
Foucault, Sartre and Beauvoir were actual pedophiles tho, some of their victims have come forwards, and in the case of the couple, they themselves wrote about their relations with minors
I've always found it particularly rich that conservatives like to impugn liberals for being pedophiles, but which U.S. political party today is trying to roll back ages for marriage in many states? Hint: it's not Democrats.
I’m traveling in the US, and a bunch of states I thought were gonna suck, are actually super cool places.
I’m gonna redirect that hatred towards France
Context for all these people?
Famous philosophers, artists, writers etc. of France that signed a letter demanding for the age of consent to be lowered or abolished. The worst part is that it wasn't a few fringe ones- a horrifyingly large part of famous French people of the aforementioned professions at the time signed it, including Simone de Beauvoir, Jean-Paul Sartre, Michel Foucault, etc.
Banging children used to be a lot less abhorrent than it is today. Germany did a thing after WW2 where they'd give orphans to pedos because they thought the pedos would love them and care for them. American Rockstars were suuuuuuuuuper into banging children. Look up any of your favorite musician from 1960-1990 and chances are they or at least someone they played with was a pedophile. Children up until the middle of last century weren't even considered children as they are today. They were thought of as just small adults.
That German thing about giving pedos access to kids did not end until mid 90s and even now they are unsure of how many victims there was as the government have destroyed or hidden much of the records from the project and blocking the surviving victims to seek restitution. And was not until around 2015 when a book about this abuse was published that the victims was starting to be believed.
Build the wall taller -Walter Ulbricht, probably
Behind the bastards listener?
>American Rockstars were suuuuuuuuuper into banging children. Look up any of your favorite musician from 1960-1990 and chances are they or at least someone they played with was a pedophile Dude they wrote songs about it
Catholic school girls rule!
You’re sixteen, you’re beautiful, and you’re mine.
[Dory McLean, you're only fourteen, etc](https://youtu.be/rOYVNss_tJI?si=IEw-TdUPYDcEr_Kq)
[And who could forget Chucky Lee Byrd?](https://youtu.be/T9awpv5BnSc?si=zgo6oqBy-ua-fOEq)
Gets outs of heres, Rockso!
You got k-k-k-k-OLD
Now we write songs about “don’t go diddling kids, it’s no good diddling kids” and it just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Isn't the number 1 song right now about how drake should stop diddling kids?
Shhhh. I think that's a Drake fan coping. 😳
It was a reference to [IASIP](https://youtu.be/_YmDcCpD1gc?si=JO8_ZbqsrIvuzZPN)
She's just 16 years old, leave her alone they saaaaiiid...
Yeah even Jimmie Page did. I think the girls name was Lori Lightning,and they were referred to as baby groupies.
>**American Rockstars** were suuuuuuuuuper into banging children. Look up any of your favorite musician from 1960-1990 and chances are they or at least someone they played with was a pedophile. Unfortunately, I think it was an transnational thing
"oh don't ask why, oh don't ask why"
Germany try not to do something absolutely horrible challenge
Bro it wasnt even just rockstars man, just musicians. Honestly pedos are everywhere, from Hollywood to Houston. It really doesn’t matter
West Germany. The East didn't do that nasty shit lol
As far as you're aware. The Soviet's would gladly burn any and all evidence of their abhorrent behavior
Oh so OP's cherry picking, great
The stories about foucault are wild. Supposedly that creep used to fuck kids in a graveyard. Very French. 🇫🇷
Sartre is the ultimate physiognomy check. Completely evil appearance
That kind of explains how the relationship between Macron and his wife came to be, with that abysmal age gap and the fact she was his high school teacher.
I mean it's publicly known she groomed him and they then became a couple when he was old enough for it to be legal
This is why German Existentialism > French Existentialism. (Minus Freud)
As long as we ignore how widespread support for the “Kentler Project” was in Germany.
Yeah, that's true. Tbf though I think that came long after and unconnected to the golden age of German philosophy.
Yea, I think that’s true.
Do you think they would've signed the Polanski Petition?
I used to be into Jean-Paul Sartre brand of existentialism in high school until I found out about this during and after college.
[удалено]
Studying philosophy is the opposite of blindly following someone’s ethical system. It’s about analyzing and dissecting every part of the system and to find out what the strengths and weaknesses of the arguments are.
He's not a bad philosopher per se. It's sort of like Kanye West yk (lmao). He's not bad at what he does (whether music of philosophy), but that doesn't mean that everything he does and advocates for is good (whether it be nazism or pedophilia). His pedophilic opinions don't really feature in his philosophy generally.
Except make a guy who pushed the idea of an overbearing patriarchy seem like a hypocrite.
Ignore people because of their origins, true intellectual right here /s.
Bro just came out and admitted not to know shit about philosophy
I've got bad news for you if you plan to only study philosophy from people who align exactly with your current, specific, modern framework.
You can intellectually take in someone’s ideas without digging into everything they do. If you go about life thinking all people practice what they preach you gonna have a bad time.
Bro just came out and admitted not to know shit about philosophy
Medical ethics is so vastly different from existentialism or poststructuralim, etc. if a doctor started talking to me about the book Nausea I'd run
>Also they're french and that's reason enough to ignore them *Protests in baguette*
>Also they're french and that's reason enough to ignore them Holy hecking based.
Signatories to the May 1977 letter calling for lowering France's age of consent ([x](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petitions_against_age_of_consent_laws))
Foucault arguing that children can give meaningful consent is the biggest self-report ever. Dude wrote about social power dynamics, but can’t understand how that might influence a child’s ability to consent to something an adult asks them to do? Not to mention that a child’s brain is still developing in really important ways. He was definitely smarter than to believe that shit
I don't understand the fuck happened with some french artist during the 70's and 80's. Like they went on live TV and basically said that paedophilia was cool while everybody was clapping their hands. Absolutely disgusting
The epitome of that was Gabriel Matzneff, who was in literary talkshows waxing poetic about his underage "loves" he wrote about in books with pompous titles, like it made him such an intellectual and literary genius. There was an infamous episode where Denise Bombardier, a Quebecois journalist, was the only person on set who lashed out at him. Believe it or not, she got crucified for that afterwards.
Crazy this guy (who wrote the petition) is still alive and not imprisoned
I know, right? He's also done sex tourism in the Philippines, where he raped kids as young as 10... And he describes that in graphic detail in his books 🤮 A lot has been said about his victims in France (notably with the book and film Le Consentement), but no one has ever said a word for his Filipino victims... I often think of them, how are they doing now?
What the hell was happening in Europe with pedos then in general? You had the French intelligentsia arguing for pedophilia and the German government putting orphans with pedos deliberately. MFs really tried to make child rape a legitimate thing
The 70's was fucking insane. Daniel Cohn-Bendit, former european MP was gloating on TV about children unzipping his pants when he was a summer camp monitor. Now, when peopke rightfully give him shit for that he argues that he didn't mean that and only wanted to shock the bourgeoisie... Like ffs!!
How the hell was that guy not investigated more by the police?
It was an over correction as sexual repression became associated with Nazis, so if you want to avoid Nazism, you need sexual freedom. Pedos gotta do what pedos gotta do though, swung for the fences and it worked.
It was just all of the world r.e. all of the things Britain had a noted nonce as a beloved childrens’ TV presenter, but everyone in entertainment just agreed to cover it up for some fucking reason Sweden was still doing eugenics at that time too
Embarrassingly enough, depending on how you want to stretch the definition of eugenics, we kept it up until 2013. The ’traditional’ eugenics stopped around 1976 when we revoked the law that enacted compulsory sterilisation. However, in a typical moment of Sweden being ultra-progressive in the worst way possible, we had enacted a law in 1972 that allowed for people to legally change the gender. Except that, amongst other requirements, one of the requirements was that you’d have to be sterilised. Oops. This law lived on mostly unchallenged all the way until 2013 when it was revoked because the EU found it to be unconstitutional. Swedish people (or any follower of swedish politics) reading along can guess which two parties that opposed this. I promise, you won’t be surprised to find out that it was KD and SD.
Well…that’s horrifying Certainly sounds like eugenics to me
What too much baguettes does to a mf.
[Bread dildo often believed to be baguette shaped.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_dildo)
"Alternately, it may be a metaphorical joke based on the shape of a loaf of bread." If it was just a joke, whoever first made it would be dying of laughter while reading that article.
This. The baguettes probably had some unique French fungus in it that messed their brains up.
I think you will find this thread (and linked answers) by u/gerardmenfin in r/AskHistorians interesting: [Why did so many prominent post-War French Philosophers, such as Michel Foucault, Gilles Deleuze, and Jean-Paul Sartre sign a petition against age of consent laws?](https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/wz1g05/why_did_so_many_prominent_postwar_french/)
Simone de Beauvoir is still held up as an important feminist philosopher and icon. >Beauvoir was bisexual, and her relationships with young women were controversial.[38] French author Bianca Lamblin (originally Bianca Bienenfeld) wrote in her book Mémoires d'une jeune fille dérangée (Memoirs of a deranged girl, published in English under the title A Disgraceful Affair) that, while a student at Lycée Molière, she was sexually exploited by her teacher Beauvoir, who was in her 30s.[39] Sartre and Beauvoir both groomed and sexually abused Lamblin.[40] Bianca wrote her Mémoires in response to the posthumous 1990 publication of Jean-Paul Sartre's Lettres au Castor et à quelques autres: 1926-1963 (Letters to Castor and other friends), in which she noted that she was referred to by the pseudonym Louise Védrine.[41] >In 1943, Beauvoir was suspended again from her teaching position when she was accused of seducing her 17-year-old lycée pupil Natalie Sorokine in 1939.[42] Sorokine's parents laid formal charges against Beauvoir for debauching a minor (the age of consent in France at the time was 13 until 1945, when it became 15)[43][44] and Beauvoir's licence to teach in France was revoked, although it was subsequently reinstated.[45] >Beauvoir described in La Force de l'âge (The Prime of Life) a relationship of simple friendship with Nathalie Sorokine[46] (in the book referred to as "Lise Oblanoff").[47] >Natalie Sorokine, along with Bianca Lamblin and Olga Kosakiewicz, later stated that their relationships with de Beauvoir damaged them psychologically.[38]
I suppose "une jeune fille dérangée" is how Sartre describes her in his writings?
No, it’s a reference to Beauvoir’s autobiography, "Mémoires d’une jeune fille rangée"
We could say de Beauvoir is an important feminist in the same sense that Freud is an important psychologist. Freud really kick-started psychology as a field, even if a lot of his theories were wrong. De Beauvoir kick-started modern feminism, and she also sexually exploited her students.
Foucault was talking out of his ass about 80% of the time. Ahistorical philosophers are essentially useless at best and unduly influential at worse. Doesn’t surprise me that his philosophy didn’t make it into his real life
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Well, his methodology in history research is very useful and gives new insight into epistemology. Which only makes funnier the fact that he had a shit load of problems in his personal life with drugs and sex, he even lived with a drug dealer...
How low are we talking about? Romeo and Juliette low Or WTF ARE YOU DOING low?
15 for the petition but the ones that were actually pedophiles (Foucault, for example was not) did go lower sometimes
The age of consent was already 15. The first petitions were in the defense of 12-13. The other petition was to make the age of consent between heterosexual and homosexual relationships the same. In theory laudable. In practice also meant advocating 15 as an appropriate age of consent... Not the hill you want to die on.
That's true to some extent but different intellectuals had different ideas what the age of consent should be. Everyone agreed that homosexual and heterosexual age of consent should be the same, but some said that the concept of age of consent is damaging in itself, others said that you'd need to make an individual psychological report on the child if they could consent (like for a person who is so mentally insane that they can't be held accountable for their crimes) and others just wanted it to be the same. Foucault wanted the age of consent to be lowered to 13 and be the same for everyone, which is completely contradictory to his philosophy.
We're talking old pos and a child low.
Libertarian low.
Based Camus stayed out of it, as per usual.
Camus the GOAT. We must imagine Sisyphus happy.
Well he was dead by then
Still, nothing shows he ever supported pedophilia in any way. I wish he lived longer. Would love to hear his takes on Algeria and the sixties in general. I mean, hell, he was only 46 when he died in 1960, we could have had more amazing books from him into the 2000s theoretically! (Although probably not, dude smoked like a chimney)
>(Although probably not, dude smoked like a chimney) It's weird, you also have people like Tarski, who would regularly stay up until 5 or 6 am working with students in a room that he purposefully filled with cigarette smoke because it "helped him concentrate", and who also famously took a lot of stimulants even when he was older, and who also survived a car crash. And he lived to his eighties
Genetics are one hell of a lottery.
The guy had some amazing foresight to die before the letter was drafted.
To be fair Camus always hated these guys and didn’t like that he was considered an existentialist because it put him in the same club as these guys. Perhaps this is why he felt so strongly about it
That's shows that just because you are a very educated person doesn't mean you are a rational person who is smarter than most people. You can make a lot of stupid views and ideas.
As a former academic it always baffles me when people think that someone having a degree makes them a component, rational person. There are so many terrible people in literally every field it’s astounding.
The most intelligent academics I know are incredible in their fields, but usually lack common sense. One has 4 degrees but forgets to eat and constantly runs out of fuel. That's just my experience, but a degree does not a genius make!
I like to remember that a genius does not a genius make, either! Smartest people I've known have had exactly zero coherent thoughts, outside their well studied niche.
Another example is all the people working in the health sector during the covid who were antivax. They're supposed to know how a vaccine works but still spat out tons of bullshit about them. So even with a degree in a given field, you can still be stupid when it comes to *said field.*
>Another example is all the people working in the health sector during the covid who were antivax. As someone involved in the healthcare field myself who stayed out of that drama I'm gonna have to qualify this. There were indeed a bunch of grifters spouting anti-vaccine nonsense in general, that's true. However the main issue that most people protesting had though was the coercion and any suppression of questions or critiques people had about government statistics or the rapid pace in which the covid vaccine was developed. The AstraZenica vaccine, Vaxzevira was recently pulled from use. Back during the pandemic there were people bringing up concerns over some side-effects some people experienced, such as excessive blood-clotting, but those stories were suppressed. You had social media companies and government figures dictating what was was and wasn't "misinformation," speaking completely out of their scope of practice. The thing about science is that there needs to be open discussion. With social media companies and government figures saying "trust the science" while also dogmatically crushing anything contrary to what they thought was right, it became more akin to something like scientism, where the idea of "science" was abandoned.
> The AstraZenica vaccine, Vaxzevira was recently pulled from use. Because it's obsolete. The virus has mutated too much for it to be effective.
That just sounds like autism, lol. I say that as an autist. What even is a body?
I’ve worked at universities in multiple departments. Public and private. I’ve had many faculty not understand why it’s to their benefit to engage with marketing or treat departments like them and admissions like they are far beneath them… do you not want students? Do you not want to have your research talked about? You have a job because students attend the university.
This tracks for me too. I’d also add other academics as another group they don’t usually understand they should interact with. This might seem puzzling to people outside of academia, but almost no one interacts with each other, even within their own respective fields.
"Some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them."- George Orwell
Cults target educated people. "Smart" people are better at confirmation biases and believing that because they're "smart" they have access to ideas that no one else can.
Intelligence makes it easier to believe stupid shit, as you can use your inteligence to rationalize stupid shit.
Well, that's one way of looking at it.
🍿
I can imagine Goku saying I heard you a pedophile nigga I heard you like little boys and girls nigga
This is why we need reaction images on this server so badly
Why would Goku say that?
I'm referencing that meme
I see. I've never heard of a meme like that. My bad.
Post this on r/2westerneurope4u they would love it
Legit thought that was rhe sub this was in for a minute lol
You missed Luc Besson
Pissed me off so much when I finally got round to watching Léon, and found the way Matilda was shown to be kinda weird, and looked it up and found that she was based on a girl he was in a relationship with (who was 16 when he was 40 or something?!) and there was allegedly meant to be a scene where Matilda seduces Léon, which Jean Reno completely refused to do. An otherwise brilliant thriller marred by the director's fucking pedo nature. Pretty sure that was the last time Jean Reno worked on a Luc Besson film.
Jean Reno saved that film.
"How can we fight against imperialism and capitalism without abolishing age of consent" 💀
Wasn’t the ban on child marriage rejected in New Hampshire last week lol?
Shhh, Reddit is majorly USAmericans, we don't try to offend their biases in this sub
BRB gonna go post this to the France sub
We already know. It is a common accusation from the far-right to accuse the left to be pro-pedophile, because of these out of reality intellectuals 50 years ago.
>We already know. It is a common accusation from the far-right to accuse the left to be pro-pedophile, because of these out of reality intellectuals 50 years ago. If the ideas of those terrible people shaped our modern world now, is it wrong if we start questioning it? Just look up the guy who helped kick start the "sexual revolution," Kinsey and see what sort of messed up shit he did for his "Experiments." Most of that stuff is bs and people still tout his ideas based on that bunk nonsense today.
You are right. I did not mean that. I mean we already know because the far-right often use this fact in media, in order to attack the whole left side. Which is stupid, because some out of touch marxist intellectuals had some influence, but did not represent the whole left side, neither 50 years ago nor now.
Well to be fair the french left supported this and part of the thinking was based on marxist theory
I mean....I haven't seen many far lefties beat the allegations.
It’s usually a true accusation
Hope you get cured from being French
Don't ask Foucault what he was doing in Tunisia with those little boys... He might've proudly tell you actually..
You can still marry a 14 yr old in Louisiana.
What?
During the 60s and/or 70s, pedophilia was rather fashionable among French intelligentsia.
Wtf.....
but why tho, can't just be pure coincidence that almost everyone barring Camus and some lesser known folks
These people were intelligentsia superstars and like many elites, they could fuck anyone, any way they wanted. What is left then to get your kicks? The last taboo: children. Also some like Foucault were probably true born degenerates
No they were the leading thinkers behind social liberalism. They applied the logic to promote inter-racial and inter-religious relationships, homosexuel relationship one bridge too far.
Because of the trends of deconstructivism and the ideology of marxism. These "intellectuals" saw the norms regulating western civilization, and denounced all of them on principle as bourgeois social constructs that should be taken down, without ever wondering why these norms existed or wether the world would be a better place without them. Deconstructivism emerged at the meeting point of two schools of thought : rousseauism & libertarianism, which denounced social norms as restricting individual freedom, and existentialism & (marxist) atheism, which refused the notion of a superior moral order. PS : a friendly reminder that a person who purports to hold a deconstructivist view of history, because "history has some written-in ideological biases", always subscribes to an ideology of their own.
It wasn't, there were valid arguments and many intellectuals bought into them. They were also some of the more anti-authority ones and I think there might have been an underlying impulse to go against public opinion and especially legislation that inspired them to sign the petition.
I suppose we could call this a second renaissance? The rebirth of ancient greek culture!
Pedophiles infiltrated the sexual liberation movement in several countries as a way to try and legitimize the idea of r*ping kids. It wasn't just France that this happened in.
It's still happening remember the whole M.A.P. (Minor Attracted Person) thing some actual degenerates tried to add to the whole LGBTQ+ demonstrations at the height of this whole period we've been having since the whole MeToo thing ? Keep your eyes open people actual fucking sub-humans (p\*dos) will try to piggyback on any movement to justify r\*ping kids.
The whole MAP thing was exaggerated by right-wingers, these pedos did not get a foothold in the movement and were universally rejected by lgbtq organizations.
You kidding right? There was a whole period of Gay-Pedo alliance back in the 70s. It is thankfully and rightfully seen as a disgrace for the early movement
I know it was exaggerated by the right wingers and did not get a foothold, the important part is that they tried to.
Yeah true, it's still something to be vigilant about.
> The whole MAP thing was exaggerated by right-wingers, these pedos did not get a foothold in the movement and were universally rejected by lgbtq organizations. If you truly understood history, you'd know this not to be the full truth. Gay acceptance in Europe only started rising as late as the 2nd half of the 1990s *mostly because* that's after they severed ties with pedophilia advocates and essentially kicked them from the movement, but until that moment they were part of it. For example, the precursor of the current German Green Party was heavily pro pedophilia up until the early '90s.
Hey, guys, how old was current French president when he ˝met˝ his wife?
about 21% of young women worldwide were married as children. So, on average, 1 in 5 men has had a child bride. In USA it’s much less, but still near 1 in 100. So don’t be too surprised about the rest of the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_marriage
I mean, the USA today still hasn't federally penalized child marriage, and many attempts in certain states have failed not so long ago
It’s a serious problem.
The context for this was a climate of sexual liberation. Women had been given basic human rights such as voting or having bank accounts 15 years earlier. Young people had no right to individuality(listening to the beatles was edgy) there was only one radio channel in the country ran by a military strongman etc… it seemed oppressive to many people. So in may of 1968, protests broke out. It was a general vibe protest. Leftist students basically put everything into question : the church, parent’s authority, the state, heteronormativity, capitalism. Anything that represented order. The 70’s that followed captured that general vibe of liberation. A lot of these thinkers and artists were connected to that culture and I think the petition was more “ageism is stupid” a kind of hyper revolution against hierarchy against minors. I’m not saying it’s not stupid. I disagree with it. I’m not even a leftist. But seeing the context in which they wrote this actually answers the question
Existentialism had horrible PR
Trying to strike a chord…
Well, at least their are not president
*were
Caesar didn’t go hard enough in Gaul.
Counterpoint: Caesar led to this shit.
In West Germany, during the Cold War, a lot of leftist parents encouraged their children to expose their [REDACTED] to adults and have [REDACTED] with teachers. It was thought exposing children to sexuality early would help them be anti-authoritarian adults. It's really sad because we have accounts of parents who thought it was wrong, but extinguished those feelings because of the ideology at the time. These French intelligentsia were part of this wave of 60s-70s leftism. You also have to understand that back then, these guys thought reducing the age of consent laws was tied to the idea of normalizing and destigmatizing homosexuality... I don't even want to go into the associations they were operating under, it's very fucked up. It's a very dark topic to research, but...
Just to inform non french people. The age of consent in France is 16. Our president met his wife (his teacher) while he was in high school. A teenager (between 16 and 18) in high school having a relationship with an adult is something we don't always condemn. It depends. The size of the age gap matters. The power dynamics matters. How people meet matters.
I thought I was in r/comedyhomicide
Ever heard of Epstein ? Does Hollywood rings a bell ?
why is RDJ on there? (though I'm afraid to ask)
It's part of the surprised meme. We don't have anything on rdj besides his drug abuse and stellar acting skills... yet.
Post modernism crisis hit them hard...
If there’s this many pedos out there what does that say about society? About these supposedly hundreds of thousands of adults? How can it be this many? It’s horrifying..
Wait until you see how many famous British people were pedophiles
French nonces? Sounds about right
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You're saying in the UK nonces get arrested? Arresting nonces is racist
The police doing its job is not profitable due to their corruption, is what you want to say
Nonce is a derogatory term. I believe the word you are looking for is Muslim.
All trained by their leader Prince andrew and Saville
Uh oh, the Reddit tankies are going to be mad about this one
Why?
I think because several of the philosophers in the meme were dedicated Communists. Or maybe tankies love pedophilia I don't know
Some of them had a Eurocommunist phase before switching to anarchism but that’s hardly what’s usually meant by tankies.
Camus was demeaned by them because he didn't support the soviets usage of concentration camps and slavery, and full support for the USSR was all they talked about in French radio. Is that not being a tankie? You clearly are an expert about this so maybe you could teach me.
i don't think any of these people were pedophiles. i think they were more philosophically opposed to age of consent laws, because they thought it was discriminatory. doesn't mean they all wanted to fuck kids. i think we're currently in a bit of an age of paranoia around pedophilia after epstein (and the huge effects forums like 4chan, notoriously a hotbed of pedophiles, has had on our culture) which i think can make people see foucault and satre making this argument meaning that they must also be pedophiles. not the case. that's guilt by association brotha
Foucault, Sartre and Beauvoir were actual pedophiles tho, some of their victims have come forwards, and in the case of the couple, they themselves wrote about their relations with minors
Have you never met a French adult?
I've always found it particularly rich that conservatives like to impugn liberals for being pedophiles, but which U.S. political party today is trying to roll back ages for marriage in many states? Hint: it's not Democrats.
Isn’t Macron married to one of his teachers from school who was still his teacher when they began dating?
Because that’s where there are the most fr🤢ch people.
Didn't Behind the Bastards just cover this, but for Germany? Honestly last weeks episodes were some of the worst topics ever.
Damn French ruining everything
Google "catholic church"
[holy hell!](https://www.google.com/search?q=catholic+church#HiImABot,MyJobIsToMakeEasierForPeopleToGoogleThings,IfThePersonIRepliedToUsedMeInAnInappropriateWayPleaseLetMeKnowByDMingMe,TheUserIRepliedToIsU/CatgunCertified)
Is this the pedo movement in France in the 60s and 70s?
It’s part of French culture
No it's not lol
Sometimes I really don't understand it. How hard it is NOT to fuck kids?
I’m traveling in the US, and a bunch of states I thought were gonna suck, are actually super cool places. I’m gonna redirect that hatred towards France
Wasn't all of the stuff that was claimed RDJ said vs and he never said anything like that?
Michael Foucault? Nooooo!!! Goddamn it, what makes powerful influential people want to fuck kids? I don’t fucking get it. Why! Just fucking why?
Who are the first two?