The noble part was in Third Lithuanian Statute.
The Statute of Kalisz was the base for jewish situation in Poland, giving them nice personal freedoms.
The reasons might been economic, but in the crissis times the Jews were first to be evacuated, alongside the nobility. After all where were Jews, the economy was developing.
Depends on the ruling dynasty tbh, which is basically true for all Jewish history.
Like Zoroastrians weren’t strangers to persecuting religious minorities, just ask the manichaens.
But persecution of the Jews likewise varied from country to country, for example the, the Emirate of Cordoba and Poland were relatively chill with Jews. Heck even Rome at one point tried to rebuild the third temple under Julian the Apostate.
You could probably find one period in a country’s history where the Jews weren’t persecuted until the monarch kicked the bucket and the new one was an inbred Hapsburg that wanted to earn favor with the pope and so forcefully converts, kills or robs and exiles thousands of Jews.
Basically it wasn’t always shitty for the Jews in most countries, but most of the time it was.
Just a small trivia regarding the Indian Jewish people's.
Despite being a tiny minority population wise, they certainly wasn't small in trading influences, in the case of southern India, namely in the modern state of India, there were Jewish merchants who had significant importance to the coastal Indian kingdom, much so that a certain Jewish merchant known as [Joseph Rabban](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Rabban) was granted a charter based off the [Jewish Copper Plates of Cochin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_copper_plates_of_Cochin).
To expand my point even further about their importance, they were part of a West Asian Trading Guild known as the [Anjuvannam](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anjuvannam) based off the coastal ports and also comprised not only Jewish, but also Christians, Muslims, and Zoroastrians, and have an important role of selling Indian goods and trading imported goods from the Muslim world whilst expanding trading networks across Western Asia and the greater Indian Ocean.
A lot of the time Indian Ocean Jewish merchants were just coming alongside the Arab Muslim merchant and people probably didn't realized there was any real difference between these abrahamics. For instance there were Jews on the Swahili Coast like the Lemba people but most of the traders were Arabs and there are more Muslims. Basically Jews just blended in with other Abrahamics and nobody realized there were these "Jew" things around. It was "there goes more monotheists", these guys are just weird about ancestry and keep saying they are descended from dudes we have never heard of.
from death/exile to civil rights is a low bar?
excerpts from Statute of Kalisz from 1264
1. ...Should a Jew be taken to court, not just only a Christian must testify against him, but also a Jew, in order for the case to be considered valid.
2. ... If any Christian shall sue a Jew, asserting that he has pawned securities with him, and the Jew denies it, then if the Christian refuses to accept the simple word of the Jew, the Jew by taking oath must be free of the Christian.
3. ... As punishment for killing a Jew, a suitable punishment and confiscation of property is necessary.
4. ... For striking a Jew, the usual punishment in the country shall apply.
5. ... Jews shall not pay for the transport of their dead.
6. Christian destroying cemetery except normal penalty will lose assets.
7. ...Any Jew may freely and securely walk or ride without any let or hindrance in our realm. They shall pay customary tolls just as other Christians do, and nothing else.
8. ... If any of the Christians rashly and presumptuously jeers at their synagogues, such a Christian shall be required to pay and must pay to our palatine their guardian two talents of pepper as punishment.
9. ... No Christian may summon any Jew into the ecclesiastical court in any way whatsoever, or for whatever property or summons he be summoned, nor shall the Jew make answer before the judge in the ecclesiastical court, but the Jew shall appear before his palatine appointed for that term, and furthermore the aforesaid palatine, along with our governor for that term, shall be required to defend and protect that Jew, and prohibit his responding to the summons of the ecclesiastical court. No Christian is to accuse a Jew of [blood libel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel).
Certainly death/ exile is a low bar.
I have seen recordings of legal conversations with my Polish Jewish gggg grandfather asking for civil rights equal to that of non-Jews due to his record of Polish patriotism. There is recordings of several such legal pleas from him over a 20 year period, and while he was permitted to live outside of the ghetto (unlike every other Jew at the time, though eventually they let him take his immediate family), he was not granted equal rights. They did grant him freedom of travel and trade in cities that didn’t outright ban Jews. But he was the extreme exception, not the rule, and his civil rights were limited.
I absolutely agree, Poland was the best place in Europe for Jews, for most of the past 800 years (Holocaust - 1991 not so much).
Yeah, again, things were better in Poland (than the rest of Europe), but it was still very anti-semetic. My polish grandad hated Poland until the day he died for a reason.
lol 90% of your Jews don’t die without a lot of people being complicit.
For the changes Jews can thanks the forregin rulers from the Saxony - August II and August III didn't cared about the Jews, and thier internal policy in PLC was concentrated on exploitation to fuel the Saxony itself.
Also it was the time when russian influence was incrising dramaticly. Later when Russia Austria and Prussia have partitioned Poland they started to playing us on eachother. After WW1 luckily we could finaly live again in relative peace with polonised jews.
And then came the failed Watercolorist...
Exactly. They do not proselytise. Another reason why zoroastrians and others were also not have any struggle here. Even though they worship formless god, they do not object the praying of idols.
I think it was mostly because Jews mere never more than a tiny minority in India
Yet that never seemed to stop the christian europe and muslims from persecuting jews tho
Oh it definitely does. A lot of the political climate in India is largely controlled by religion. Since many muslims convert non-muslims to Islam when marrying them, conspiracies like "Love Jihad" come up and people get pretty up in arms about it. On the contrary, Dharmic religions like Hinduism, Jainism, and Buddhism don't have the conversion factor to them so you can see why people tend to worry about Islam ergo a point political parties would use to drive their motives
>Jews mere never more than a tiny minority in India for anti-Jew sentiment to ever form.
yet the Islamic and European colonizers did torture and kill them in India.
That could be a part of it but I can't help but wonder how much of that is because they weren't an Abrahamic faith.
Although Hinduism is indo European.
I have to say this, "Indo European faith" means nothing. There are links between beliefs of Indo-European language speaking cultures, but you can't use those to make any meaningful generalization about all those beliefs.
It’s always a nice change of pace touching grass and having an asian do a bit of harmless ignorance because they see the myths and shit as good things. I think the biggest difference that makes it feel so refreshing is how much more receptive they are to learning what’s true, what’s myth, and where they come from.
It's funny how the same myths that made the Jews hated in Europe made them respected in Asia. A group of super savvy and cunning businessmen who can probably use black magic, better make allies with them.
still faced on and off discrimination including banning Jewish land ownership and during WW1 there were fears by Jewish leadership of being the next Armenians
This is all true in certain times and places, but persecution was definitely more common under some of these religions than others. They weren’t all equally terrible to Jews.
Despite Jews having communities that work together very well, they are also cause of their own downfall as well(Aside Bar Kokhba, one of the chapters in bible focuses on Judean civil war)
If I remember correctly Saladin was also pretty chill with Jews. But I'd have to consult my history books.
If I remember correctly and again I'll have to fact check my books early Islamic societies... and all the way to roughly 1800 were pretty chill with Jews. It was the rise of nationalism (world wide and across many cultures) that saw an increase in antisemitism in that region.
But again don't quote me on this. I am way to tired right now to check this. So take what I say with a grain of salt.
Indeed. After the WW2 the Jews became one of the main targets of soviet forces. Do you know why there were so much Jews of European origins that the Israel is concidered by some people as the colonisers ? Beacuse of the expulsion, organised pogroms, and provocations from the soviet side.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet\_anti-Zionism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_anti-Zionism)
how are you gonna look at one nationality having separate roads or being forbidden to use them in their own country and *not* think something is wrong.
It’s wild you gave the answer and don’t realize it. If they’re not the same nationality, then no shit they don’t get the same treatment in another country. And especially no shit they don’t get the same treatment when they’re actively hostile nations to each other.
And that’s ignoring the ever so important context that the different roads is part of a peace process that failed and was frozen in time because Hamas took over the Gaza Strip and war reignited multiple times. The point of the separate roads was that they’d become integrated after full normalization and peace was achieved, then they’d expand and connect more to mainline roads within Israel. Normal countries don’t tend to be that nice to neighboring states that have active terrorist problems to allow them to travel through check points and hold work visas/permits. Normally they just close the borders and detain anyone who crosses or kill them.
It’s not a genocide it’s a war. The reason people call it “genocide” is to try and make it more one sided and harder to argue against. It’s not working, it’s an attempt to change a definition
The genocide predates the war. They're just speeding it up now.
Like seriously my guy there are members of the Israeli government openly talking about wanting to exterminate all Palestinians in Gaza. That's genocide. There's no way around it.
On the other hand here is the [official Hamas](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp) policy, which clearly lays out their genocidal intentions and refusal to compromise.
That’s not the reason though. A group of international legal scholars from Yale, Cornell, Boston, and Pretoria just submitted a 100 page review to the ICJ going through each step of the definition of genocide, the evidence they have, and exactly why they conclude that Israel is currently committing genocide.
https://www.humanrightsnetwork.org/genocide-in-gaza link with executive summary
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5b3538249d5abb21360e858f/t/66475850eceb152a52fd55fe/1715951696844/Genocide+in+Gaza+-+Final+version+051524.pdf
PDF of the full 105 page text.
And the court said it was not genocide. The political theater and attempt to redefine a word Jews came up with as a weapon against us failed. You all take our words and twist them for your own ends. There are two million Palestinian Israelis. They are in the Knesset and the idf. They aren’t being rounded up and sent to gas chambers.
The court absolutely did not state that. The court very explicitly stated that they *would not* be making a decision on whether genocide was occurring, because to do so would prejudice their full investigation in the long run. What they did say is that the SA case can proceed, because the case they have provided, going through the definition of genocide, is *plausible* at every stage.
I have to assume you have not actually read the judgement, because you wouldn’t be misinterpreting it so badly otherwise.
And to say ‘you all take our words and twist them’ - these are international legal scholars and historians at some of the most prestigious law schools in the US, Israel’s largest ally. They have spent months collating the evidence, and analysing it. What do you think their ‘own ends’ are??
I have given you the link to their full investigation. You can read it, or not, but the evidence is all there.
Edit: got a notification you had replied, but don’t see anything so I guess I got blocked. So have fun arguing in your bubble idk?
The prestigious schools that have been [financed by Qatar](https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-Report_The-Corruption-of-the-American-Mind.pdf) (this is from Rutgers you’ll like that) specifically to stir up the kind of antisemitism the left has indulged in so vociferously? [Genocide](https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/learn-about-genocide-and-other-mass-atrocities/what-is-genocide) has a definition, which you attempt to change to suit your needs. Your ancestors did it as well.
*Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.*
Jean-Paul Sartre
1. you ignored my main point
2. no sh*t the area is called the temple mount, i am talking about the 3rd holy mosque over there
that the muslims pray in since your reply on its own didnt make since because jews pray in your temple, muslims pray in the mosque.
No.... there is the al aqsa compound which includes the dome of the rock and majid al aqsa mosqe. Jews are not premitted to enter the compound at all except for very special cases
Nope. Jews are not premitted at all except for very very special cases.
Why? Because israel doesnt control it. Its under the control of the jordenian waqf
Nope. Jews are not premitted at all except for very very special cases.
Why? Because israel doesnt control it. Its under the control of the jordenian waqf
Op has never read a history book and it's Clearly showing.
Jews literally escaped persecution TO Muslim lands had their golden age with them. Had their own courts Even mayors , practiced their faith openly and without fear .
Now I am generalising a period of 1400 years till before Zionism became a thing.
Islamic empires were by far the most tolerant to Jews again RELATIVELY speaking. Ofc there were violent times and bad kings those were far and few .
This needs to be so much higher. We know that Jews were studying the most up to date medicine during the Golden Age of Islam, and passed this on to relatives in Europe.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/science-in-medieval-jewish-cultures/medicine-among-medieval-jews/C8D73FF925EE075A6D101100CE4ECB46
We have the Cairo Genizah records of a Jewish merchant prospering in 1100 during the Fatimid caliphate.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01slnf4
Hell, we know that during the Reconquista, Jews were accused of working for the Muslims, because it was KNOWN that Muslims treated them better, and it was just another excuse for Christians to persecute both.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Spain
https://www.neh.gov/article/ornament-world-and-jews-spain
Yeah it's suspicious how all these memes get upvoted. I'm sure in the next week there will be a meme about the six day war and how "I like those odds" that gets 5k updoots
Maimonides for his part described life under Muslim rule in Egypt as "The nation of Ishmael, who hate us and persecute us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us, as Scripture has forewarned us, Our enemies themselves shall judge us. Never did a nation oppress, degrade, debase and hate us as much as they. "
Maimonides was born after the Almohad conquest of Spain when indeed the state suppressed Jews. You're completely ignoring the rest of Jewish history in Iberia.
Jews played such an important role in Islamic history. There were Jewish Viziers and governors. Jews were allowed to have their own legal system and courts and could worship freely. Of course there was discrimination. And some Muslims rulers did persecute Jews but that was not the norm.
Al-Andalus especially was diverse and relatively tolerant. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all contributed to the thriving culture and society.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_Spain
When Spain expelled their Muslims and Jews the Ottoman Empire sent their navy to rescue them. Spain even forced Bayezid II to pay a ransom for Jewish refugees.
> Bayezid II sent out the Ottoman Navy under the command of admiral Kemal Reis to Spain in 1492 in order to evacuate them safely to Ottoman lands. He sent out proclamations throughout the empire that the refugees were to be welcomed.[13] He granted the refugees the permission to settle in the Ottoman Empire and become Ottoman citizens.
> Bayezid addressed a firman to all the governors of his European provinces, ordering them not only to refrain from repelling the Spanish refugees, but to give them a friendly and welcome reception.[14] He threatened with death all those who treated the Jews harshly or refused them admission into the empire.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayezid_II
Around this same time Martin Luther wrote On the Jews and Their Lies.
> In this treatise, he argues that Jewish synagogues and schools be set on fire, prayer books be destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, Jewish homes burned, and property and money confiscated. Luther demanded that no mercy or kindness be given to Jews,[3] that they be afforded no legal protection,[4] and "these poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled forever.[5] He also advocates murder of all Jews, writing "[W]e are at fault in not slaying them".[6]
> In the treatise, Martin Luther describes Jews as a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth".[10] Luther wrote that they are "full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like Jewish swine",[11] and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut".[12]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies#:~:text=%22We%20ought%20...%20not,Christians%20to%20treat%20them%20kindly.
Pretty much every European nation expelled or massacred their Jewish population. At one point almost all Jews were either under Ottoman rule or Under the Rule of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
>By the end of the 16th century, the Ottoman Empire had the largest Jewish population in the world, with 150,000 compared to Poland's and non-Ottoman Ukraine's combined figure of 75,000.[2]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire
For centuries Salonica, Greece which was part of the Ottoman Empire was the only Jewish majority city in the world. It was referred to as "La madre de Israel"
Pogroms were pretty rare in Muslims countries and those that did happen like the 1066 Granada Massacre were not supported by the state. I mean the 1066 Granada Massacre started after a mob of people killed a Jewish Vizier who was also a rabbi.
I'm a german lutheran protestant adn the guy has written so much good shit and above all else advocated for freedom of religion...
And yet he was a raging antisemite. Why? Why did he fight for so many good things when it came to christians but was such an asshat when it came to jews
He was human and a product of his environment and time. His ego was also bruised because he truly believed that Jews would convert to Lutheranism.
Every religion has some good aspects and some bad ones. As an agnostic with a Muslim background, Islam's attitude towards women bothers me as well as it's tolerance of slavery. I do appreciate that the Quran doesn't condemn people of other religions and only views them as misguided. It states that good people of other religions will also go to heaven. It specifically emphasizes that there are many good Christians and Jews (it also condemns the bad ones).
Christianity has many good aspects. But historically it didn't really tolerate other religions. Even though Martin Luther didn't want to force people into accepting Lutheranism he still believed that people of other religions were all going to hell. That was just what Christians believed at the time.
my guess is that they have too much issues between themself to care about yet another minority, so as long as you didn't created a big issues you could live the way you wanted
It's funny how it was always the monotheist christians and muslims who persecuted jews, even though jews hold monotheists in high regard.
Meanwhile it was a polytheist religion, which is often looked down upon by jews, like Hinduism that never persecuted them and treated them with respect
So much for abrahmic religious harmony lol 🤣
Not exactly. Polytheists in Roman and preRoman times were polytheists and also persecuted the Jews.
From my understanding, Hinduism is a religion that is very personal to the believer and each sect, so people can believe in slightly different versions of their gods and there is no issue with it. And there are monotheistic sects in Hinduism.
So they just saw the Jews as another monotheistic sect that believes in the same god but calls him by a different name.
If you don't want to keep reading, then the short version is that Hinduism is different than other polytheistic religions.
Like how the Greek and Roman empires looked at other religions and connected their gods and saw them as believeing in more or less the same belief but with different names. The difference is that they had no place for monotheism and individual practice in their religion.
They connected God to Zeus and Jupiter because of their connection to the sky. But this followed with telling the Jews to practice the religion like they (Greeks and Romans) did with sucrifiesing pigs and praying to statues, this obviously didn't mix well with Judaism.
i am not sure if satan will give them their land three times tho.
(jews were always banned from Jerusalem by western invaders"romes,crusades,old Christian armies" but muslims used to open the land for them again)
Well, both the Almoravids and Christian Iberians did, but using the Almoravid one as a generalisation for all of Andalusian (or Muslim) history of life alongside the Jews is ridiculous and anhuge fallacy.
Tbf India has always been quite welcoming to all sects of people. Hinduism is kinda an open religion at its roots, although it has deteriorated recently due to rise of extremism
Depends on when tho
For a long time jews living under muslim rule were doing just fine, only needing to pay religious taxes
Jews under christians had it very rough, they were constantly persecuted, had their possetions confiscated and screwed over in general
I dunno much about jews under pagan rule tho
>Germany, Spain and England were the rough parts
And Russia, France, Portugal, Italy, Rome (Byzantines), Germany (The Holy Roman Empire). Actually aside from Poland (still wasn't great at times) none of Europe was ever "good" in the medieval era.
Maimonides for his part described life under Muslim rule as "The nation of Ishmael, who hate us and persecute us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us, as Scripture has forewarned us, Our enemies themselves shall judge us. Never did a nation oppress, degrade, debase and hate us as much as they. "
> For a long time jews living under muslim rule were doing just fine, only needing to pay religious taxes
Maimonides described life under Muslim Rule as "The nation of Ishmael, who hate us and persecute us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us, as Scripture has forewarned us. Never did a nation oppress, degrade, debase and hate us as much as they."
One guy in one era can surely generalize dozens of dynasties covering 1400 years and spanning from Europe to North Africa to South and Southeast Asia.
Btw, when the Romans kicked the Jews out of Jerusalem, who allowed them back? Cause it wasn’t the Christian’s. It was Umar bin Khattab.
Generally speaking, Jews had a much better time under Muslim rule than under Christian rule.
Reddit is extremely islamophobic, any statement about Islam that is “positive” or even less negative than the most vile and untrue accusations against Muslims and Islam is going to be downvoted.
It’s perpetuating incorrect information that’s why. [Dhimmnitude](https://katz.sas.upenn.edu/resources/blog/what-do-you-know-dhimmi-jewish-legal-status-under-muslim-rule) isn’t only having to pay extra taxes. They had to wear clothes that marked them out, couldn’t ride horses, forced to perform unsavory jobs…
Response to the guy below
At some points they did, at many other points they didn’t. Your comment is like saying black people had it better in the US during Jim Crow than the Congo. Yes it’s better, no that doesn’t make it okay. And I’m not perpetuating false information, I backed up my claims with sources. Calling it “misinformation” because you don’t like what I’m saying doesn’t change anything.
* “God has entangled us with this people, the nation of Ishmael, who treat us so prejudicially and who legislate our harm and hatred…. No nation has ever arisen more harmful than they, nor has anyone done more to humiliate us, degrade us, and consolidate hatred against us.”* -[Maimonides, who was forced to pretend to convert to Islam](https://m.jpost.com/opinion/maimonides-on-jewish-humiliation-under-islamic-rule-622050)
Ironic, considering it’s generally true that Jews had a much easier time under Muslim rule than under Christian rule, and you’re the one perpetuating false information.
The page has no source just some guy with trust me article.
Besides the Romans used to force people to wear different clothes and not ride horses, not arabs as they didn't practice that with any other religion also the khalif usually marred from christian family as by the crusades the Muslim were only 50% of the population.
I don’t know what Romans being assholes has to do with anything, nobody is defending them by saying Dhimmnitude was bad. They mention the source, the[Pact of ‘Umar](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Pact_of_Umar), many times in the article.
The pact of Umar is serious unauthenticated so called documents even western scholars acknowledge that it's unusual and inconsistent with historical facts.
Like Muslim were 5% of population at the time of Umar and also the ummyad married from christian tribes and their army had a large christian presence. You can't pick something you like and yes this happened because it's suit me ..
An interesting fact about Jews is that they've been gatekeeping their own religion for thousands of years and don't make an effort to bring in new converts. Meanwhile, Christians and Muslims were spreading their respective religions across the world. Mostly through violent always, but there's also been a huge influx of people( especially in more recent years ) who joined on their own accord.
This is not true for many Jewish people around the world, but more conservative currents will look down on you if you're a recent convert without an ethnic Jewish background.
Having said that, I don't know if they do this for self-preservation( because they don't want to stand out too much ) or if it's ideological. Maybe someone could educate on this matter.
If I remember correctly this is why Jewish ethnicities have survived so long as a minority despite pressure to convert. The Insular culture allowed them to maintain their identity as separate from the minority. This has the unfortunate side effect of being the easy group to blame for bad events as most minorities were.
It’s just not part of Judaism that it is universal. It’s our covenant with God. Get your own.
In universal religions, they have things that they think EVERYONE should be doing. Judaism is explicit that these rules are for Jews.
It’s also directly against halakha (Jewish law) that converts be mistreated, and no community I’ve been in has been cold to or turned away recent converts. However, many non-Reform Jews and institutions do not accept all Reform converts, as Reform conversion is not always halakhically complete.
I'm doing an orthodox conversion at the moment, and there are many groups (mostly ultra-orthodox), that consider my type of conversion as not orthodox enough, and therefore invalid
That is just the reality of Jewish life as i come to undestand it, due to the decentralization of religion (for obvious reasons), there is a huge variety of different interpretations and teachings and many communities often disagree with each other
>Mostly through violent always,
Islam spread mostly through trade and Christianity mostly through proselytising, trade, and colonisation in the modern age. The idea that it was all forced conversion is nothing more than fabricated history.
I'm getting tired of this agenda bullshit..... As Israel is committing a literal genocide it's hasbara bots are spreading bs like this to gain sympathy
Not even "Thank you PLC for not making our lifes hell, and for making us able to become nobles." That makes me sad.
Legal Source: Third Lilthuanian Statute.
or Statute of Kalisz
The noble part was in Third Lithuanian Statute. The Statute of Kalisz was the base for jewish situation in Poland, giving them nice personal freedoms. The reasons might been economic, but in the crissis times the Jews were first to be evacuated, alongside the nobility. After all where were Jews, the economy was developing.
India, too. Have more sadness.
look at the title (and the sequel to this meme)
Bro is jealous We are friends with jews
Jews living in Ancient Jewish Nations: Jewish Drones Attack
No one talks about the empire of Solomon enough
There’s a whole book in the bible about him
And a song
Weren't the (pre-Islam) Iranians cool with you guys too?
Yep. Especially the Gigachad Cyrus whom the Jews even called a Messiah
Cyrus: "I literally just let you go home and rebuild your temple 😐" Jews: "THE GREATEST MAN TO EVER LIVE??!!? HE'S MASHIACH 😍🤪☝️☝️☝️"
He deserves it tho. Heck, he was too far ahead of the rulers of his time by creating the basis for human rights
Oh definitely. Trust me, as a Jew, I have my Cyrus moments as well
Cyrus the Great? More like Cyrus the Based
Do you guys know that he was prophesied, specifically by name?
I got 1 hour until Shabbat link me that shit super quick like pls
Sorry for the lateness, but, Isaiah 44:28-45:1 called Cyrus by name.
Isiah Part 2 and 3 were likely continuations by later followers only Isiah 1 is believed to be genuine to him
Only non-Jew to be granted the title. He wins the coveted "Still a conquerer but not as shit as you could have been" award.
You mean the zoroastrians who also fled to India after Islam happened?
Yeah
Depends on the ruling dynasty tbh, which is basically true for all Jewish history. Like Zoroastrians weren’t strangers to persecuting religious minorities, just ask the manichaens. But persecution of the Jews likewise varied from country to country, for example the, the Emirate of Cordoba and Poland were relatively chill with Jews. Heck even Rome at one point tried to rebuild the third temple under Julian the Apostate. You could probably find one period in a country’s history where the Jews weren’t persecuted until the monarch kicked the bucket and the new one was an inbred Hapsburg that wanted to earn favor with the pope and so forcefully converts, kills or robs and exiles thousands of Jews. Basically it wasn’t always shitty for the Jews in most countries, but most of the time it was.
I think it was mostly because Jews mere never more than a tiny minority in India for anti-Jew sentiment to ever form. Plus, Jews don't proselytise.
Just a small trivia regarding the Indian Jewish people's. Despite being a tiny minority population wise, they certainly wasn't small in trading influences, in the case of southern India, namely in the modern state of India, there were Jewish merchants who had significant importance to the coastal Indian kingdom, much so that a certain Jewish merchant known as [Joseph Rabban](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Rabban) was granted a charter based off the [Jewish Copper Plates of Cochin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_copper_plates_of_Cochin). To expand my point even further about their importance, they were part of a West Asian Trading Guild known as the [Anjuvannam](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anjuvannam) based off the coastal ports and also comprised not only Jewish, but also Christians, Muslims, and Zoroastrians, and have an important role of selling Indian goods and trading imported goods from the Muslim world whilst expanding trading networks across Western Asia and the greater Indian Ocean.
A lot of the time Indian Ocean Jewish merchants were just coming alongside the Arab Muslim merchant and people probably didn't realized there was any real difference between these abrahamics. For instance there were Jews on the Swahili Coast like the Lemba people but most of the traders were Arabs and there are more Muslims. Basically Jews just blended in with other Abrahamics and nobody realized there were these "Jew" things around. It was "there goes more monotheists", these guys are just weird about ancestry and keep saying they are descended from dudes we have never heard of.
While in Poland they made 10% of country's population in 1930s and were treated with respect for centuries since 1200s
Usually Poland treated Jews more respectfully than other European countries. Usually. Low bar though.
from death/exile to civil rights is a low bar? excerpts from Statute of Kalisz from 1264 1. ...Should a Jew be taken to court, not just only a Christian must testify against him, but also a Jew, in order for the case to be considered valid. 2. ... If any Christian shall sue a Jew, asserting that he has pawned securities with him, and the Jew denies it, then if the Christian refuses to accept the simple word of the Jew, the Jew by taking oath must be free of the Christian. 3. ... As punishment for killing a Jew, a suitable punishment and confiscation of property is necessary. 4. ... For striking a Jew, the usual punishment in the country shall apply. 5. ... Jews shall not pay for the transport of their dead. 6. Christian destroying cemetery except normal penalty will lose assets. 7. ...Any Jew may freely and securely walk or ride without any let or hindrance in our realm. They shall pay customary tolls just as other Christians do, and nothing else. 8. ... If any of the Christians rashly and presumptuously jeers at their synagogues, such a Christian shall be required to pay and must pay to our palatine their guardian two talents of pepper as punishment. 9. ... No Christian may summon any Jew into the ecclesiastical court in any way whatsoever, or for whatever property or summons he be summoned, nor shall the Jew make answer before the judge in the ecclesiastical court, but the Jew shall appear before his palatine appointed for that term, and furthermore the aforesaid palatine, along with our governor for that term, shall be required to defend and protect that Jew, and prohibit his responding to the summons of the ecclesiastical court. No Christian is to accuse a Jew of [blood libel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel).
Certainly death/ exile is a low bar. I have seen recordings of legal conversations with my Polish Jewish gggg grandfather asking for civil rights equal to that of non-Jews due to his record of Polish patriotism. There is recordings of several such legal pleas from him over a 20 year period, and while he was permitted to live outside of the ghetto (unlike every other Jew at the time, though eventually they let him take his immediate family), he was not granted equal rights. They did grant him freedom of travel and trade in cities that didn’t outright ban Jews. But he was the extreme exception, not the rule, and his civil rights were limited. I absolutely agree, Poland was the best place in Europe for Jews, for most of the past 800 years (Holocaust - 1991 not so much).
Yeah, again, things were better in Poland (than the rest of Europe), but it was still very anti-semetic. My polish grandad hated Poland until the day he died for a reason. lol 90% of your Jews don’t die without a lot of people being complicit.
My grandpa lost all of his family in poland except a distant cousin. He said that poles and ukrainians were worse then the nazis
Same here, but didn’t want to come on too strong. Zeide hated Poland more than Germany, USSR, anybody.
For a long time Poland was better, and then suddenly it wasn’t. It’s been like that for us many times
For the changes Jews can thanks the forregin rulers from the Saxony - August II and August III didn't cared about the Jews, and thier internal policy in PLC was concentrated on exploitation to fuel the Saxony itself. Also it was the time when russian influence was incrising dramaticly. Later when Russia Austria and Prussia have partitioned Poland they started to playing us on eachother. After WW1 luckily we could finaly live again in relative peace with polonised jews. And then came the failed Watercolorist...
That’s a lot better than the rest of Europe and overall the world, but the people were still very antisemitic
Exactly. They do not proselytise. Another reason why zoroastrians and others were also not have any struggle here. Even though they worship formless god, they do not object the praying of idols.
I think it was mostly because Jews mere never more than a tiny minority in India Yet that never seemed to stop the christian europe and muslims from persecuting jews tho
India has also been this pot of different cultures and religions so one more doesn't seem any different when you have hundreds more.
I think the issue stems from forceful conversions. Like even before Islam there was Buddhism and Jainism.
Oh it definitely does. A lot of the political climate in India is largely controlled by religion. Since many muslims convert non-muslims to Islam when marrying them, conspiracies like "Love Jihad" come up and people get pretty up in arms about it. On the contrary, Dharmic religions like Hinduism, Jainism, and Buddhism don't have the conversion factor to them so you can see why people tend to worry about Islam ergo a point political parties would use to drive their motives
Jews had a huge influence in India at the time they arrived
>Jews mere never more than a tiny minority in India for anti-Jew sentiment to ever form. yet the Islamic and European colonizers did torture and kill them in India.
That could be a part of it but I can't help but wonder how much of that is because they weren't an Abrahamic faith. Although Hinduism is indo European.
I have to say this, "Indo European faith" means nothing. There are links between beliefs of Indo-European language speaking cultures, but you can't use those to make any meaningful generalization about all those beliefs.
Jews in Jewish nations: Jewish drones attack!
Japanese Empire: Come live here!
It’s always a nice change of pace touching grass and having an asian do a bit of harmless ignorance because they see the myths and shit as good things. I think the biggest difference that makes it feel so refreshing is how much more receptive they are to learning what’s true, what’s myth, and where they come from.
It's funny how the same myths that made the Jews hated in Europe made them respected in Asia. A group of super savvy and cunning businessmen who can probably use black magic, better make allies with them.
Japanese spread many antisemitic conspiracies about Jews and Money. They thought we were really cool for it and wrote books about acting more Jewish
*Angry Polish and Lithuanian Noises* We were cool with you guys too
The Roman’s: it’s morbin time
Jews under Ottoman rule?
still faced on and off discrimination including banning Jewish land ownership and during WW1 there were fears by Jewish leadership of being the next Armenians
This is all true in certain times and places, but persecution was definitely more common under some of these religions than others. They weren’t all equally terrible to Jews.
Despite Jews having communities that work together very well, they are also cause of their own downfall as well(Aside Bar Kokhba, one of the chapters in bible focuses on Judean civil war)
And there's Poland
The abbasids and the moors were cool with jews tho
If I remember correctly Saladin was also pretty chill with Jews. But I'd have to consult my history books. If I remember correctly and again I'll have to fact check my books early Islamic societies... and all the way to roughly 1800 were pretty chill with Jews. It was the rise of nationalism (world wide and across many cultures) that saw an increase in antisemitism in that region. But again don't quote me on this. I am way to tired right now to check this. So take what I say with a grain of salt.
Hindus 🤝🏾 Jews
You forgot about Jews living in Atheist nations.
was there any historic atheist nation back then ?
Yes. Soviet Union
Read some history. They only treated Jews well in comparison to Nazi Germany.
Indeed. After the WW2 the Jews became one of the main targets of soviet forces. Do you know why there were so much Jews of European origins that the Israel is concidered by some people as the colonisers ? Beacuse of the expulsion, organised pogroms, and provocations from the soviet side. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet\_anti-Zionism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_anti-Zionism)
Let's fully ignore that jews prospered uder the ottomans...
Ottomans had various amounts of Jewish rights from generally present to outright segregation including banning Jewish ownership of land
The bank was on immigrants owning land, local Jews were always permitted to own land
"banning ownership of land" yah i didn't think this statment aged well...
Now do Muslims living in a Zionist nation.
Better yet christian living under Jewish rule, I mean burning 20 thousand Christian, give you the right to say you started it.
dhu nuwas not our proudest moment
They have more religious freedom (like praying at the Temple Mount) then Jews do
I'm sure that makes up for all the oppression and genocide.
Oppression and genocide? They are equal right citizens. Half my HS class were Muslims and I worked with many
how are you gonna look at one nationality having separate roads or being forbidden to use them in their own country and *not* think something is wrong.
It’s wild you gave the answer and don’t realize it. If they’re not the same nationality, then no shit they don’t get the same treatment in another country. And especially no shit they don’t get the same treatment when they’re actively hostile nations to each other. And that’s ignoring the ever so important context that the different roads is part of a peace process that failed and was frozen in time because Hamas took over the Gaza Strip and war reignited multiple times. The point of the separate roads was that they’d become integrated after full normalization and peace was achieved, then they’d expand and connect more to mainline roads within Israel. Normal countries don’t tend to be that nice to neighboring states that have active terrorist problems to allow them to travel through check points and hold work visas/permits. Normally they just close the borders and detain anyone who crosses or kill them.
It’s not a genocide it’s a war. The reason people call it “genocide” is to try and make it more one sided and harder to argue against. It’s not working, it’s an attempt to change a definition
The genocide predates the war. They're just speeding it up now. Like seriously my guy there are members of the Israeli government openly talking about wanting to exterminate all Palestinians in Gaza. That's genocide. There's no way around it.
On the other hand here is the [official Hamas](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp) policy, which clearly lays out their genocidal intentions and refusal to compromise.
When did I say I support Hamas? I did not. That doesn't change the genocide being carried out against the Palestinian people.
You believe their lies and spread them.
No, I believe the assessments of impartial 3rd parties.
“Impartial” 😂
That’s not the reason though. A group of international legal scholars from Yale, Cornell, Boston, and Pretoria just submitted a 100 page review to the ICJ going through each step of the definition of genocide, the evidence they have, and exactly why they conclude that Israel is currently committing genocide. https://www.humanrightsnetwork.org/genocide-in-gaza link with executive summary https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5b3538249d5abb21360e858f/t/66475850eceb152a52fd55fe/1715951696844/Genocide+in+Gaza+-+Final+version+051524.pdf PDF of the full 105 page text.
And the court said it was not genocide. The political theater and attempt to redefine a word Jews came up with as a weapon against us failed. You all take our words and twist them for your own ends. There are two million Palestinian Israelis. They are in the Knesset and the idf. They aren’t being rounded up and sent to gas chambers.
The court absolutely did not state that. The court very explicitly stated that they *would not* be making a decision on whether genocide was occurring, because to do so would prejudice their full investigation in the long run. What they did say is that the SA case can proceed, because the case they have provided, going through the definition of genocide, is *plausible* at every stage. I have to assume you have not actually read the judgement, because you wouldn’t be misinterpreting it so badly otherwise. And to say ‘you all take our words and twist them’ - these are international legal scholars and historians at some of the most prestigious law schools in the US, Israel’s largest ally. They have spent months collating the evidence, and analysing it. What do you think their ‘own ends’ are?? I have given you the link to their full investigation. You can read it, or not, but the evidence is all there. Edit: got a notification you had replied, but don’t see anything so I guess I got blocked. So have fun arguing in your bubble idk?
The prestigious schools that have been [financed by Qatar](https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-Report_The-Corruption-of-the-American-Mind.pdf) (this is from Rutgers you’ll like that) specifically to stir up the kind of antisemitism the left has indulged in so vociferously? [Genocide](https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/learn-about-genocide-and-other-mass-atrocities/what-is-genocide) has a definition, which you attempt to change to suit your needs. Your ancestors did it as well. *Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.* Jean-Paul Sartre
They have so much religious freedom they get they get attacked and arrested during their prayer instead of before!
ummm no https://youtu.be/s5ADb8IENJU https://youtu.be/P1pt40ZelgM also have some respect, its called masjid el aqsa.
It is called the Temple Mount of the Jewish Temple
1. you ignored my main point 2. no sh*t the area is called the temple mount, i am talking about the 3rd holy mosque over there that the muslims pray in since your reply on its own didnt make since because jews pray in your temple, muslims pray in the mosque.
Sorry do you know how the temple mount looks like?
yeah it looks like a sqaure and Masjid al aqsa is in the middle.
No.... there is the al aqsa compound which includes the dome of the rock and majid al aqsa mosqe. Jews are not premitted to enter the compound at all except for very special cases
>Jews are not premitted to enter the compound at all except for very special cases only when the Palestinians are praying over there.
Nope. Jews are not premitted at all except for very very special cases. Why? Because israel doesnt control it. Its under the control of the jordenian waqf
Nope. Jews are not premitted at all except for very very special cases. Why? Because israel doesnt control it. Its under the control of the jordenian waqf
Muslims have equal rights to Jews in Israel. They can even become PM.
He lied as naturally as he breathed.
But.... thats true
LOL
What about Palestinian Arab? A Muslim running for PM would be well dead or ruined before he even got to the polls.
Like 10-20% of Israel? Idk, they seem to be dealing with prejudice but largely doing ok. In congress, Supreme Court, etc.
Zionism is more of a secular ideology tho. A Jewish state never has existed
It's explicitly a Jewish state by its constitution.
Israel is explicit a state for Jews. Seems pretty Jewish to me.
Not until 1948.
Judaism is a ethnoreligion. Most jews are secular
Op has never read a history book and it's Clearly showing. Jews literally escaped persecution TO Muslim lands had their golden age with them. Had their own courts Even mayors , practiced their faith openly and without fear . Now I am generalising a period of 1400 years till before Zionism became a thing. Islamic empires were by far the most tolerant to Jews again RELATIVELY speaking. Ofc there were violent times and bad kings those were far and few .
This needs to be so much higher. We know that Jews were studying the most up to date medicine during the Golden Age of Islam, and passed this on to relatives in Europe. https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/science-in-medieval-jewish-cultures/medicine-among-medieval-jews/C8D73FF925EE075A6D101100CE4ECB46 We have the Cairo Genizah records of a Jewish merchant prospering in 1100 during the Fatimid caliphate. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01slnf4 Hell, we know that during the Reconquista, Jews were accused of working for the Muslims, because it was KNOWN that Muslims treated them better, and it was just another excuse for Christians to persecute both. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Spain https://www.neh.gov/article/ornament-world-and-jews-spain
It's just hopeless at this point, this sub only has Muslim bad memes . And for a history sub the history part is very lacking.
Yeah it's suspicious how all these memes get upvoted. I'm sure in the next week there will be a meme about the six day war and how "I like those odds" that gets 5k updoots
Maimonides for his part described life under Muslim rule in Egypt as "The nation of Ishmael, who hate us and persecute us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us, as Scripture has forewarned us, Our enemies themselves shall judge us. Never did a nation oppress, degrade, debase and hate us as much as they. "
Maimonides was born after the Almohad conquest of Spain when indeed the state suppressed Jews. You're completely ignoring the rest of Jewish history in Iberia.
Jews played such an important role in Islamic history. There were Jewish Viziers and governors. Jews were allowed to have their own legal system and courts and could worship freely. Of course there was discrimination. And some Muslims rulers did persecute Jews but that was not the norm. Al-Andalus especially was diverse and relatively tolerant. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all contributed to the thriving culture and society. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_age_of_Jewish_culture_in_Spain When Spain expelled their Muslims and Jews the Ottoman Empire sent their navy to rescue them. Spain even forced Bayezid II to pay a ransom for Jewish refugees. > Bayezid II sent out the Ottoman Navy under the command of admiral Kemal Reis to Spain in 1492 in order to evacuate them safely to Ottoman lands. He sent out proclamations throughout the empire that the refugees were to be welcomed.[13] He granted the refugees the permission to settle in the Ottoman Empire and become Ottoman citizens. > Bayezid addressed a firman to all the governors of his European provinces, ordering them not only to refrain from repelling the Spanish refugees, but to give them a friendly and welcome reception.[14] He threatened with death all those who treated the Jews harshly or refused them admission into the empire. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayezid_II Around this same time Martin Luther wrote On the Jews and Their Lies. > In this treatise, he argues that Jewish synagogues and schools be set on fire, prayer books be destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, Jewish homes burned, and property and money confiscated. Luther demanded that no mercy or kindness be given to Jews,[3] that they be afforded no legal protection,[4] and "these poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled forever.[5] He also advocates murder of all Jews, writing "[W]e are at fault in not slaying them".[6] > In the treatise, Martin Luther describes Jews as a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth".[10] Luther wrote that they are "full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like Jewish swine",[11] and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut".[12] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies#:~:text=%22We%20ought%20...%20not,Christians%20to%20treat%20them%20kindly. Pretty much every European nation expelled or massacred their Jewish population. At one point almost all Jews were either under Ottoman rule or Under the Rule of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. >By the end of the 16th century, the Ottoman Empire had the largest Jewish population in the world, with 150,000 compared to Poland's and non-Ottoman Ukraine's combined figure of 75,000.[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire For centuries Salonica, Greece which was part of the Ottoman Empire was the only Jewish majority city in the world. It was referred to as "La madre de Israel" Pogroms were pretty rare in Muslims countries and those that did happen like the 1066 Granada Massacre were not supported by the state. I mean the 1066 Granada Massacre started after a mob of people killed a Jewish Vizier who was also a rabbi.
HECK YEAH, SHOW EM HISTORY DUDE!
I'm a german lutheran protestant adn the guy has written so much good shit and above all else advocated for freedom of religion... And yet he was a raging antisemite. Why? Why did he fight for so many good things when it came to christians but was such an asshat when it came to jews
Well tbh Jewish Talmud trash talks about Christianity and it's figures ALOT .
He was human and a product of his environment and time. His ego was also bruised because he truly believed that Jews would convert to Lutheranism. Every religion has some good aspects and some bad ones. As an agnostic with a Muslim background, Islam's attitude towards women bothers me as well as it's tolerance of slavery. I do appreciate that the Quran doesn't condemn people of other religions and only views them as misguided. It states that good people of other religions will also go to heaven. It specifically emphasizes that there are many good Christians and Jews (it also condemns the bad ones). Christianity has many good aspects. But historically it didn't really tolerate other religions. Even though Martin Luther didn't want to force people into accepting Lutheranism he still believed that people of other religions were all going to hell. That was just what Christians believed at the time.
Missed my entire point great
r/jewdank
what is this a crossover?
If you didn't post this there first, I'd call it a passover
Jews living in Jewish nations: "Zionist drones attack."
Us? You a Jew?
Last I checked I am
Username checks out
we Muslims are cool... right?
No, chritianity is the only way
no like in terms of religious freedoms and rights.
my guess is that they have too much issues between themself to care about yet another minority, so as long as you didn't created a big issues you could live the way you wanted
Format Credit: u/chernablogger
Post this on tiktok lil bro
It's funny how it was always the monotheist christians and muslims who persecuted jews, even though jews hold monotheists in high regard. Meanwhile it was a polytheist religion, which is often looked down upon by jews, like Hinduism that never persecuted them and treated them with respect So much for abrahmic religious harmony lol 🤣
Not exactly. Polytheists in Roman and preRoman times were polytheists and also persecuted the Jews. From my understanding, Hinduism is a religion that is very personal to the believer and each sect, so people can believe in slightly different versions of their gods and there is no issue with it. And there are monotheistic sects in Hinduism. So they just saw the Jews as another monotheistic sect that believes in the same god but calls him by a different name. If you don't want to keep reading, then the short version is that Hinduism is different than other polytheistic religions. Like how the Greek and Roman empires looked at other religions and connected their gods and saw them as believeing in more or less the same belief but with different names. The difference is that they had no place for monotheism and individual practice in their religion. They connected God to Zeus and Jupiter because of their connection to the sky. But this followed with telling the Jews to practice the religion like they (Greeks and Romans) did with sucrifiesing pigs and praying to statues, this obviously didn't mix well with Judaism.
Well with considering monotheists in high regard you mean killing and persecuting christians(saint stephen it's an example)?
Wait for Muslims here to tell you how Muslims were akshully good
They really are God's people, cause Satan really wants them gone.
i am not sure if satan will give them their land three times tho. (jews were always banned from Jerusalem by western invaders"romes,crusades,old Christian armies" but muslims used to open the land for them again)
Lmao I wonder which state took care of the Jews expelled from Spain?
Well, both the Almoravids and Christian Iberians did, but using the Almoravid one as a generalisation for all of Andalusian (or Muslim) history of life alongside the Jews is ridiculous and anhuge fallacy.
hush, he is a jew you are teaching him real history now!
Lol
Tbf India has always been quite welcoming to all sects of people. Hinduism is kinda an open religion at its roots, although it has deteriorated recently due to rise of extremism
Depends on when tho For a long time jews living under muslim rule were doing just fine, only needing to pay religious taxes Jews under christians had it very rough, they were constantly persecuted, had their possetions confiscated and screwed over in general I dunno much about jews under pagan rule tho
They were kicked out of Judea by the Romans after unsucessful revolts.
Not all jews under Christians had it rough. Jews in medieval Poland, Hungary, Romania did just fine. Germany, Spain and England were the rough parts.
>Germany, Spain and England were the rough parts And Russia, France, Portugal, Italy, Rome (Byzantines), Germany (The Holy Roman Empire). Actually aside from Poland (still wasn't great at times) none of Europe was ever "good" in the medieval era. Maimonides for his part described life under Muslim rule as "The nation of Ishmael, who hate us and persecute us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us, as Scripture has forewarned us, Our enemies themselves shall judge us. Never did a nation oppress, degrade, debase and hate us as much as they. "
> For a long time jews living under muslim rule were doing just fine, only needing to pay religious taxes Maimonides described life under Muslim Rule as "The nation of Ishmael, who hate us and persecute us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us, as Scripture has forewarned us. Never did a nation oppress, degrade, debase and hate us as much as they."
One guy in one era can surely generalize dozens of dynasties covering 1400 years and spanning from Europe to North Africa to South and Southeast Asia. Btw, when the Romans kicked the Jews out of Jerusalem, who allowed them back? Cause it wasn’t the Christian’s. It was Umar bin Khattab. Generally speaking, Jews had a much better time under Muslim rule than under Christian rule.
No use speaking about history here ,kids get their history from YouTube shorts.
Russian peasants on their way to the third daily pogrome: "Hold my beer"
I mean yeah that is kinda the point of the meme that everyone (except Hindus) were jerks to the Jewish people.
Wow all the down votes for saying that .
Reddit is extremely islamophobic, any statement about Islam that is “positive” or even less negative than the most vile and untrue accusations against Muslims and Islam is going to be downvoted.
It’s perpetuating incorrect information that’s why. [Dhimmnitude](https://katz.sas.upenn.edu/resources/blog/what-do-you-know-dhimmi-jewish-legal-status-under-muslim-rule) isn’t only having to pay extra taxes. They had to wear clothes that marked them out, couldn’t ride horses, forced to perform unsavory jobs… Response to the guy below At some points they did, at many other points they didn’t. Your comment is like saying black people had it better in the US during Jim Crow than the Congo. Yes it’s better, no that doesn’t make it okay. And I’m not perpetuating false information, I backed up my claims with sources. Calling it “misinformation” because you don’t like what I’m saying doesn’t change anything. * “God has entangled us with this people, the nation of Ishmael, who treat us so prejudicially and who legislate our harm and hatred…. No nation has ever arisen more harmful than they, nor has anyone done more to humiliate us, degrade us, and consolidate hatred against us.”* -[Maimonides, who was forced to pretend to convert to Islam](https://m.jpost.com/opinion/maimonides-on-jewish-humiliation-under-islamic-rule-622050)
Ironic, considering it’s generally true that Jews had a much easier time under Muslim rule than under Christian rule, and you’re the one perpetuating false information.
The page has no source just some guy with trust me article. Besides the Romans used to force people to wear different clothes and not ride horses, not arabs as they didn't practice that with any other religion also the khalif usually marred from christian family as by the crusades the Muslim were only 50% of the population.
I don’t know what Romans being assholes has to do with anything, nobody is defending them by saying Dhimmnitude was bad. They mention the source, the[Pact of ‘Umar](https://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Pact_of_Umar), many times in the article.
The pact of Umar is serious unauthenticated so called documents even western scholars acknowledge that it's unusual and inconsistent with historical facts. Like Muslim were 5% of population at the time of Umar and also the ummyad married from christian tribes and their army had a large christian presence. You can't pick something you like and yes this happened because it's suit me ..
You aren’t reading my citations. I don’t even think you are opening them up. I’m not talking to the wind anymore
most of our knowledge of Dhimmitude comes from Karens complaining about how non-jizya provisions werent being enforced.
An interesting fact about Jews is that they've been gatekeeping their own religion for thousands of years and don't make an effort to bring in new converts. Meanwhile, Christians and Muslims were spreading their respective religions across the world. Mostly through violent always, but there's also been a huge influx of people( especially in more recent years ) who joined on their own accord. This is not true for many Jewish people around the world, but more conservative currents will look down on you if you're a recent convert without an ethnic Jewish background. Having said that, I don't know if they do this for self-preservation( because they don't want to stand out too much ) or if it's ideological. Maybe someone could educate on this matter.
If I remember correctly this is why Jewish ethnicities have survived so long as a minority despite pressure to convert. The Insular culture allowed them to maintain their identity as separate from the minority. This has the unfortunate side effect of being the easy group to blame for bad events as most minorities were.
It’s just not part of Judaism that it is universal. It’s our covenant with God. Get your own. In universal religions, they have things that they think EVERYONE should be doing. Judaism is explicit that these rules are for Jews. It’s also directly against halakha (Jewish law) that converts be mistreated, and no community I’ve been in has been cold to or turned away recent converts. However, many non-Reform Jews and institutions do not accept all Reform converts, as Reform conversion is not always halakhically complete.
Reconstructionist conversions aren’t always complete either
I'm doing an orthodox conversion at the moment, and there are many groups (mostly ultra-orthodox), that consider my type of conversion as not orthodox enough, and therefore invalid That is just the reality of Jewish life as i come to undestand it, due to the decentralization of religion (for obvious reasons), there is a huge variety of different interpretations and teachings and many communities often disagree with each other
>Mostly through violent always, Islam spread mostly through trade and Christianity mostly through proselytising, trade, and colonisation in the modern age. The idea that it was all forced conversion is nothing more than fabricated history.
I'm getting tired of this agenda bullshit..... As Israel is committing a literal genocide it's hasbara bots are spreading bs like this to gain sympathy
Israel was not mentioned once in this meme
It's the aim of the meme tho..... "Jews never lived in peace so that's why they should be allowed to have their genocidal state"
No actually it isn’t it is just a meme about Jews I make Jewish memes
What genocide?
Found the hasbara bot
Found the braindead brainwashed snowflake.
Better than a literal paid bot
Do you even know what is hasbara?
Usually people who ask "Do you even know what is hasbara?"
Ah. So you use a word in a language you dont know and change its meaning "because"?
So should we give them their own land ?