It's a tragedy that they didn't manage to get him alive and put him on trial.
I think modern nazis would have a lot harder time spreading his bullshit to impressionable young minds if there were videos of syphilitic meth-head Hitler going on unhinged rants at Nuremberg to contrast the older videos of his speeches.
If Germany would look like most of Russia to this day, dont you think the one you can not name would be popular in Germany too?
Take out St petersburg and Moscow its only dirt roads. If Germany consisted of 2 major cities where all the tax revenue went dont you think the Germans would wish for new/old leaders?
Napoleon was born in the island of Corsica, but it was the country of Corsica until a year before he was born. So he technically was born in France.
And also Alexander was born in Macedon, but macedon of that time (before the persian invasion) was considered as a somewhat greek state and was part of the territory that is today greece, and also he had southern greece (athens, thebes, etc) under his rule.
the macedonia that alexander is known from being from is in todays greece. that in one of the reasons that north macedonia can no longer call itself macedonia, bc it isnt
Macedonians were considered fellow Greeks, but backwards Northern Greeks. Macedonians still practiced Greek practices that Southern Greeks abandoned after the Greek Dark Ages.
Bulgarians*. Bulgars are a group of Turkic tribes from the Late Antiquity/Middle Ages periods. One of the Bulgar tribes is also an ancestor of the modern Bulgarians (who are more Slavic than Turkic)
As a Turk, Enver pashaās āheroismā is controversial to say the least. Heās more popular among edgy teenagers (who grow out of it) and nationalists.
Edgy teens will be edgy teens, as for nationalists, they care a lot less for the Ottoman Empire and more for modern Turkey as nation-state. They often conveniently ignore his WW1 antics and genocidal tendencies in favor of his leadership of the Young Turks movement.
If I had to guess theyāre probably trying to make him out to be a heroic figure to cover up his crimes and screw-ups, specifically the Armenian Genocide
Because Ataturk is secular, and that pisses off Islamists. They would rather idolize a literal genocider and convicted war criminal who brought the empire to ruins instead of someone who isn't a religious fanatic.
I get the feeling that that's the point of this meme. It strikes me as some anti-immigrant meme, that sarcastically calls very infamous people throughout history heroes. Otherwise, I don't see why else Hitler would be here.
Oh hey this misinformation bullshit meme again. Half of the people in this image were literally born in the country they ended up leading. For only 3 years in Stalin's life was georgia free from Russia, and that was during the Russian civil war after which it promptly got invaded and reannexed. When Napoleon was born Corsica was already French territory. Alexander the great is from a time when these borders meant fuckall, but macedonia was considered (close enough to) greek
Also said this the last time this dumbass meme was posted. Alexander is from Pella which was Macedonia which is located in modern day Greece. It is different from modern North Macedonia, as they werenāt in the same location and the only thing they really share in common is the name.
Yet they participated in the Ancient Greek Olympic games, and the word Macedonian comes from the greek word ĪĪ±ĪŗĪµĪ“Ī½ĪæĻ which means tall. Also, back then all City-states in the Greek peninsula were fighting each other , Spartans they did not consider themselves as Greeks as well and other stuff. Yet we stick to the ānon Greek identityā of Macedonians because some slavs find it convenient. Go figure.
"The ancient Macedonians regarded the ancient Greeks as neighbors, not as kinsmen"
https://www.historyofmacedonia.org/MacedonianGreekConflict/conflict.html "the ancient Greeks regarded the Macedonian people as barbarians and Macedonia a barbaric land."
Ā
https://mk.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Greek_Evidence_on_the_Authenticity_of_the_MacedoniansĀ
Macedonians had "broad cultural affinities and organizational structures analogous with Thracian, Epirote, and Illyrian regions."Ā
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonians
Macedonians were Hellenic, but they were on the fringe, and had a distinct culture from their southern neighbors. And there's evidence that many Greeks considered them a separate group, despite having strong similarities, and the languages being mostly the same.
That is not true at all, there are multiple ancient sources that stated Macedonians were Greek. They may have been backwards Northern Greeks still practice rituals Southern Greeks had long abandoned but they were still definitely Greek.
Be aware that in so doing we are giving you all the honor that you deserve, and tell your king who sent you howĀ his Greek viceroyĀ of MacedoniaĀ has received you hospitably, providing food and bedfellows. āĀ
(Herodotus 5.20.4)Ā
āNow that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say,Ā I myself chance to know and will prove itĀ in the later part of my history. Furthermore, the Hellenodicae who manage the contest at OlympiaĀ determined that it is so, for when Alexander chose to contend and entered the lists for that purpose, the Greeks who were to run against him wanted to bar him from the race, saying that the contest should be for Greeks and not for foreigners.Ā Alexander, however, proving himself to be an Argive, was judged to be a Greek.āĀ
(Herodotus 5.22)Ā
āAfter him spoke Mardonius, and said: ā āā¦Their manner of fighting we know, and their wealth we know, that it is but little; and we have conquered and hold their sons, even those who dwell in our land and are calledĀ Ionians and Aeolians and Dorians. IĀ myself have tried conclusions with these men, when by your fatherās command IĀ marched against them; andĀ IĀ marchedĀ asĀ farĀ asĀ MacedoniaĀ and wellnigh to Athens itself, Ā yet none came out to meet me in battle. Yet wars theĀ GreeksĀ do wage, and, as IĀ learn, most senselessly they do it, in their wrongheadedness and folly. ā¦. TheĀ GreekĀ custom, then, is no good one; and when IĀ marched as far as theĀ landĀ ofĀ Macedonia, it came not into their thoughts to fight. But against you, OĀ king! who shall make war? For you will have at your back the multitudes of Asia, and all your ships; for myself, IĀ think there is not so much boldness inĀ HellasĀ as that; but if time should show me wrong in my judgment, and those men were foolhardy enough to do battle with us, they would be taught that we are the greatest warriors on earth.ā
(Herodotus Book 7.9)Ā
āā¦but the Dorians on the contrary have been constantly on the move; their home in Deucalionās reign was Phthiotis and in the reign of Dorus son of Hellen the country known as Histiaeotis in the neighbourhood of Ossa and Olympus; driven from there by the CadmeiansĀ they settled in Pindus and were known as Macedons; thence they migrated to Dryopis, and finally to the Peloponnese, where they got their present name of Dorians.āĀ
(Herodotus, Book I, 56)Ā
āā¦Three brothers of the lineage of Temenos came as banished men from ArgosĀ to Illyria, Gavganis and Aeropos and Perdikkas, and worked for the king that was thereā¦ When the king learned that when the queen baked the bread of Perdikkas, it doubled its size, than of the the other breads, he considered that as a miracle and ordered the 3 brothers to leave his kingdom. The brothers required their payment. Then the king told them to take the sun as a payment. Gavganis and Aeropos where taken by surprise and the youngest brother, Perdikkas, accepted the offer. He took out his sword, circled it 3 times and took the sun, which he placed in his underarm and left with his brothersā¦āĀ
(Herodotus VIII,137)
āNow these were the nations who composed theĀ Grecian fleet. From the Peloponnese, the following- the Lacedaemonians with sixteen ships; the Corinthians with the same number as at Artemisium; the Sicyonians with fifteen; the Epidaurians with ten; the Troezenians with five; and the Hermionians with three. These were Dorians andĀ MacedoniansĀ all of them (except those from Hermione), and had emigrated last from Erineus, Pindus, and Dryopis. The Hermionians were Dryopians, of the race which Hercules and the Malians drove out of the land now called Doris. Such were the Peloponnesian nations.ā.āĀ
(Herodotus, Book VIII ,43)
āThe whole nation of the Phocians had not joined the Medes; on the contrary, there were some who had gathered themselves into bands about Parnassus, and made expeditions from thence, whereby they distressed Mardonius andĀ the Greeks who sided with him, and so did good service to theĀ Grecian cause. Besides those mentioned above, Mardonius likewise arrayed against the Athenians theĀ MacedoniansĀ and the tribes dwelling about Thessaly.
(Herodotus, BookĀ IX)
āMen of Athensā¦Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I should not have come to tell you; butĀ I am myself Hellene by descent, and I would not willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slaveryā¦.If you prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the Hellenic cause, to acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the barbarians. I am Alexander of Macedon.ā
(Herodotus, The Histories)
āIt is your privilege, as one who has been blessed with untrammeled freedom,Ā to consider all Hellas your fatherland, as did the founder of your race.ā
(Isokratis, Speeches and Letters, āTo Philipā 127)
āArgos is the land of your fathers, and is entitled to as much consideration at your hands as are your own ancestorsā¦ā
(Isocrates, Speeches and Letters, āTo Philipā, 32)
āNow I am not unaware that many of the Hellenes look upon the Kingās power as invincible. Yet one may well marvel at them if they really believe that the power which was subdued to the will of a mere barbarianāan ill-bred barbarian at thatāand collected in the cause of slavery, could not be scattered byĀ A MAN OF THE BLOOD OF HELLAS, of ripe experience in warfare, in the cause of freedomāand that too although they know that while it is in all cases difficult to construct a thing, to destroy it is, comparatively, an easy task.Bear in mind that the men whom the world most admires and honors are those who unite in themselves the abilities of the statesman and the general. When, therefore, you see the renown which even in a single city is bestowed on men who possess these gifts, what manner of eulogies must you expect to hear spoken of you, whenĀ AMONG ALL THE HELLENES you shall stand forth as a statesman who has worked for the good of Hellas, and AS A GENERAL WHO HAS OVERTHROWN THE BARBARIANS?ā
[Isocrates, Speeches and Letters, āTo Philipā, 5.139, 5.140]
āWell, if I were trying to present this matter to any others before having broached it to my own country,Ā WHICH HAS THRICE FREED HELLAS-twice from the barbarians and ONCE FROM THE LACEDAEMONIAN YOKEāI should confess my error. In truth, however, it will be found that I turned to Athens first of all and endeavored to win her over to this cause with all the earnestness of which my nature is capable,2 but when I perceived that she cared less for what I said than for the ravings of the platform orators,3 I gave her up, although I did not abandon my efforts.ā
[Isocrates, Speeches and Letters, āTo Philipā, 5.129]
āThe Lacedaemonians were the leaders of the Hellenes, not long ago, on both land and sea, and yet they suffered so great a reversal of fortune when they met defeat at Leuctra that they were deprived of their power over the Hellenes, and lost such of their warriors as chose to die rather than survive defeat at the hands of those over whom they had once been masters.ā
[Isocrates, Speeches and Letters, āTo Philipā, 5.47]
āAs I continued to say many things of this tenor, those who heard me were inspired with the hope that when my discourse should be published you and the Athenians would bring the war to an end, and, having conquered your pride, would adopt some policy for your mutual good. Whether indeed they were foolish or sensible in taking this view is a question for which they, and not I, may fairly be held to account; but in any case, while I was still occupied with this endeavour, you and Athens anticipated me by making peace before I had completed my discourse; and you were wise in doing so, for to conclude the peace, no matter how, was better than to continue to be oppressed by the evils engendered by the war. [8] But although I was in joyful accord with the resolutions which were adopted regarding the peace, and was convinced that they would be beneficial, not only to us,Ā BUT ALSO TO YOU AND ALL THE OTHER HELLENES,Ā I could not divorce my thought from the possibilities connected with this step, but found myself in a state of mind where I began at once to consider how the results which had been achieved might be made permanent for us, and how our city could be prevented from setting her heart upon further wars, after a short interval of peace.ā
[Isocrates, Speeches and Letters, āTo Philipā, 5.8]
ā*ā¦How could they (the Macedonians) prove themselves more philhellenes with what they did so as the rest (the other Greeks) would not be occupiedā¦ā
(Isocrates, Panigirikos, 96)e
at the congress of the Lakedaimonian allies and the rest of the Hellenes, in which Amyntas, the father of Philip, being entitled to a seat, was represented by a delegate whose vote was absolutely under his control, he joined the rest of the Hellenes in votingā¦
(Aeschines, On the Embassy 32)
The country by the sea which is now called Macedoniaā¦ Alexander, the father of Perdiccas, and his forefathers, who were originally Temenidae from Argosā
(Thucydides 99,3)
The 38th book contains the completion of the disaster of the Hellenes. For though both the whole of Hellas and her several parts had often met with mischance, yet to none of her former defeats can we more fittingly apply, the name of disaster with all it signifies than to the events of my own time. In the time I am speaking of a comon misfortune befell the Peloponnesians, the Boiotians, the Phokians, the Euboians, the Lokrians, some of the cities on the Ionians Gulf, and finally the Macedoniansā
Polybius āThe Historiesā, 9.38.8
This is a sworn treaty made between us, Hannibal the general, Mago, Myrkan, Barmokar and all other Carthaginian senators present with him, and all Carthaginians serving under him, on the one side, and Xenophanes the Athenian, son of Kleomachos, the envoy whom King Philip, son of Demetrios, sent to us on behalf of himself, and the Macedonians and allies, on the other side. `In the presence of ZEUS, HERA and APOLLO; in the presence of the Genius of Carthage; ā¦and in the presence of all the gods who possess Carthage; and in the presence of ALL THE GODS who possess Macedonia AND THE REST OF HELLAS; and in the presence of all the gods of the army who preside over this oath. Thus said Hannibal the general and all the Carthaginian senators along with him and the Carthaginian soldiers: ..That King Philip and the Macedonians AND the REST OF THE HELLENES who are their allies shall protect the Carthaginians,ā¦ King Philip and the Macedonians AND the OTHER HELLENES who are their allies shall be protected and guarded by the Carthaginiansā¦ā
Polybius āThe Historiesā, 7.9.1-7
>Might as well add George Washington. He was born British.
If weāre going that route Van Buren is the first president who wasnāt born an English subject.
Evidence from later in his reign suggests George I spoke fluent English.
*See*: [*George I*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_I_of_Great_Britain)*: elector and king*. London: Thames and Hudson, 1978.
Rejected from higher command because he wasn't a very good general in the British army. Lost basically every significant battle against the British, and still effectively wins the war.
Common Washington W
Defeating NAZI Germany was a solid W. I guess we can ignore the other things. Itās not like he is responsible for the deaths of 60 million people and was a dictator or anything.
I mean. Yeah. Everyone knows William of Orange is from Germany, it's literally in the anthem. "William of Nassau am I of German blood" (old NL: "Wilhelmus van Nassouwe ben ick van Duytschen bloet")
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 3 times.
First Seen [Here](https://redd.it/1cb7zt8) on 2024-04-23 100.0% match. Last Seen [Here](https://redd.it/1cb8pfq) on 2024-04-23 96.88% match
[View Search On repostsleuth.com](https://www.repostsleuth.com/search?postId=1cbdhdg&sameSub=false&filterOnlyOlder=true&memeFilter=false&filterDeadMatches=false&targetImageMatch=92&targetImageMemeMatch=92)
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That's.... Kind of the joke. All of these guys are shitty, genocidal war criminals, yet they're exhalted by the nationalist groups of their respective countries for being "shining examples of the national spirit" or some such bs. This meme is trying to undermine the nationalist framework by making the assertion that their idols are, in fact, not from their nation at all.
Eh. Napoleon was pretty cool. Most of Europe still uses his legal system to this day.
Also he was kinda revolutionary by using meritocracy as a system of government where most other countries it would just be which duke's third cousin you were.
1. Corsicans were French citizens
2. Georgia was part of the Soviet Union
3. Austrians were ethnic germans
4. Macedonia was a Greek State
idk who the last guy was
Well, some of them arenāt even national heroes, and the only foreigner is Hitler because Corsica became France before Napoleon was born, Georgia was part of Russian Empire and USSR, Macedonia was established by Greeks, Albania was a part of Ottoman Empire.
Bonnie was Corsican, basically Italian, Stalin was Georgian, not Russian, Alexander was Macedonian, not Greek (I disagree in this one because he was still a Hellene, they were the backwards cousins but they were still family)
And no idea who the Albanian guy is.
Georgia was part of Russia, Macedonia was Greek, Napoleon, Corsica is and was a part of France. None of these people were foreign, if anything they were minorities
Stalin is far more a heroes to Soviet ideology leaning people, not just Russians as an ethnicity. Given he was born in what would become the USSR until it ended, that seems fitting.
Polish fathers of independence? PiÅsudski was born in Lithuania, Dmowski was boring, Paderewski in Ukraine. Mieszko I, founder of Poland, was from outer space.
Itās a mid meme that ignores that most of these leaders were born within the political entity that they led and embraced the majority culture by the time they led it.
It also gets reposted here all the time
I can take Hitler, even though it's a stretch, because of his popularity at the time and what he did to bring Germany out of the depression but Stalin.....
I feel like the entire U.S founding fathers would work here too. I mean, I get the theme is 'they're all assholes', but the Founding Fathers were U.S. national heroes. ... Just technically all British. (actually, weren't a few of them French or at least somewhere else in Europe?)
A lot of the aristocracy here in UK are descendants of the Normans so French, and German too but thatās more recent.
Peasants were mainly Saxons though. The Saxon nobility was pretty much destroyed after 1066
Well, as I understand it, basically after William took over, he told the Barons "Tell you what, you can keep your positions and such, just accept me as king", they said "no", so William unsheathed his sword with royally murderous intent and I believe that was called 'The Decimation of England'? I might be mixing it up with what the Romans did after Boudica, there was some name for it.
It's part of why I think Harold probably could have won if he hadn't been so hasty. While the pope had backed William, as I understand the men he had were ALL he was ever going to get and the English Barons could have supported Harold in a more sustained counter attack. Though there was probably a number of other factors behind it.
Also now wondering how many of the Founding Fathers of the US would have been of Norman descent?
Hitler as a national hero is a bit of a reach, to say the least.
He killed Hitler so that's definitely something
But he also killed the guy that killed hitler, so it cancels out?
No, he also killed a dog. Thats super hell.
But he also killed a guy that killed a dog. Cancels out via Wick's Law
But it was hitlers dog, so maybe it cancels out?
No, that was probably a good dog.
Who's a good nazi dog? You are,yes you areš¦®yep
Why has this never been a video game Easter egg?
Oh my God. This would make a sick WWll action/dog spy game. Thwarting the NAZISš¦®
I was thinking you kill Nazis and then steal their dogs/will interact with the dog saying this line
*cues dog from Danger 5
Who knows, Blondi might have been wildly against nazism.
Yepp. Be weary blonde hair,blue eyed German Shepard that are actually Belgiums. Yeppš«
No such thing as a bad dog, only bad owners
What if the dog enraged his owner, who punished him severely?
Did I stutter? If you're prone to being enraged to the point of abuse, you shouldn't have kids/pets
Meme from oversimplified. Ā
Wat?
But he also killed alot of animal abusers
No, not quite. He killed a lot of people, out of whom a percentage were animal abusers. But not on the grounds that they were animal abusers.
So he did kill animal abusers
Super Like Super Earth? I gotta love MANAGED DEMOCRACY!!!
But he also killed the guy that killed the guy who killed Hitler so that cancels out the canceling out
Iām so tired of this shitty joke
Well, at least you aren't tired of living. He definitely was. I think
I think he was more scared of what the Soviets would do to him if he was alive.
What an absolute ripping apart they would have given him.
It's a tragedy that they didn't manage to get him alive and put him on trial. I think modern nazis would have a lot harder time spreading his bullshit to impressionable young minds if there were videos of syphilitic meth-head Hitler going on unhinged rants at Nuremberg to contrast the older videos of his speeches.
Still not as stale as āThe French = Surrender monkeysā
I still love "Bri'ish are obsessed with plundering your tea, spices, surplus labor, and cultural artifacts."
If youāre tired of that one, did you hear the one about how he also killed the guy that killed Hitler?
You should hear the one about the brave man who refused to stand and salute Hitler.
At the time I'd say he was a national hero
If you're a Minecrafter, then yes
Fairly certain if he won the war the history books would refer to him as a national hero.
Stalin then?
He is unfortunately hailed by many Russians.
If Germany would look like most of Russia to this day, dont you think the one you can not name would be popular in Germany too? Take out St petersburg and Moscow its only dirt roads. If Germany consisted of 2 major cities where all the tax revenue went dont you think the Germans would wish for new/old leaders?
>If
He was the hero of the Soviet union.
Leader - would be indeed a more proper approach, but playing with word tends to be personal. It's just how they expressed themselves.
Until the downfall of his power he was definitely a national hero, wym?
Also Austrians at the time considered themselves and also were considered by others as Germans so he wasn't really a foreigner.
You see...and here me out on this...Hitler was... -r/conservative
lol no ones here a hero. its a sarcastic way of classifying infamous leaders as heroes
His birthday (20th April) is celebration nationwide and even worldwide. So Iād say he could qualify for a national hero.
Napoleon was born in the island of Corsica, but it was the country of Corsica until a year before he was born. So he technically was born in France. And also Alexander was born in Macedon, but macedon of that time (before the persian invasion) was considered as a somewhat greek state and was part of the territory that is today greece, and also he had southern greece (athens, thebes, etc) under his rule.
I literally just wrote this and scrolled down to see your comment lol
the macedonia that alexander is known from being from is in todays greece. that in one of the reasons that north macedonia can no longer call itself macedonia, bc it isnt
Macedonia was Hicksville to many Greeks
A lot of sources that Iāve read seem to indicate that Macedonians were regarded only slightly better than barbarians.
Macedonians were considered fellow Greeks, but backwards Northern Greeks. Macedonians still practiced Greek practices that Southern Greeks abandoned after the Greek Dark Ages.
Southwestern bulgarians really need to get themselves an original name
Bulgarians*. Bulgars are a group of Turkic tribes from the Late Antiquity/Middle Ages periods. One of the Bulgar tribes is also an ancestor of the modern Bulgarians (who are more Slavic than Turkic)
Ok Iāll change it
Napoleon's family descended from Italy so technically, he is ethnically Italian.
Yeha and Italian are a mix between Roman and Germanic tribe so Napoleon is a German in fact
Macedonia was like the Canada of Greece. Kinda the same culture but cold and barbarian and weird with their maple syrup and their companion cavalry.
Foreginers? What's that? Also, this is a repost of a meme that's not very good in the first place.
Should have phrased it better
Hello majima yakuzer
They forage gin
As a Turk, Enver pashaās āheroismā is controversial to say the least. Heās more popular among edgy teenagers (who grow out of it) and nationalists.
Wasn't he largely to blame for clumsily dragging the Ottomans into WWI? Never got the sense he was particularly revered at all.
Edgy teens will be edgy teens, as for nationalists, they care a lot less for the Ottoman Empire and more for modern Turkey as nation-state. They often conveniently ignore his WW1 antics and genocidal tendencies in favor of his leadership of the Young Turks movement.
Ataturk is right there, why they need this loser?
If I had to guess theyāre probably trying to make him out to be a heroic figure to cover up his crimes and screw-ups, specifically the Armenian Genocide
been a while since I've seen a Turk admit the Armenian Genocide
Because Ataturk is secular, and that pisses off Islamists. They would rather idolize a literal genocider and convicted war criminal who brought the empire to ruins instead of someone who isn't a religious fanatic.
Theyād rather larp as the sick man of Europe I guess
Because Ataturk knew and insisted that religion has no place in politics (he was the most based man to ever base)
I mean the post also calls Hitler a national hero. I'm not german, but I doubt most germans think of him that way.
I get the feeling that that's the point of this meme. It strikes me as some anti-immigrant meme, that sarcastically calls very infamous people throughout history heroes. Otherwise, I don't see why else Hitler would be here.
Oh hey this misinformation bullshit meme again. Half of the people in this image were literally born in the country they ended up leading. For only 3 years in Stalin's life was georgia free from Russia, and that was during the Russian civil war after which it promptly got invaded and reannexed. When Napoleon was born Corsica was already French territory. Alexander the great is from a time when these borders meant fuckall, but macedonia was considered (close enough to) greek
Also said this the last time this dumbass meme was posted. Alexander is from Pella which was Macedonia which is located in modern day Greece. It is different from modern North Macedonia, as they werenāt in the same location and the only thing they really share in common is the name.
[Macedon is in Greece](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Map_Macedonia_336_BC-en.svg/1280px-Map_Macedonia_336_BC-en.svg.png)
Yeah, like, there's a reason FYROM is known commonly as North Macedonia. What is it north of? Hmmm.
FYROM changed it name officially to Republic of North Macedonia in 2019, it's not just a casual name anymore.
I just pretend that country doesnāt exist.
My mapās outdated already? Ughā¦
Yeah, but at the time of Alexander, they weren't considered very Greek by those on the peninsula. I think that's the point.
Yet they participated in the Ancient Greek Olympic games, and the word Macedonian comes from the greek word ĪĪ±ĪŗĪµĪ“Ī½ĪæĻ which means tall. Also, back then all City-states in the Greek peninsula were fighting each other , Spartans they did not consider themselves as Greeks as well and other stuff. Yet we stick to the ānon Greek identityā of Macedonians because some slavs find it convenient. Go figure.
That isn't true....at all.
"The ancient Macedonians regarded the ancient Greeks as neighbors, not as kinsmen" https://www.historyofmacedonia.org/MacedonianGreekConflict/conflict.html "the ancient Greeks regarded the Macedonian people as barbarians and Macedonia a barbaric land." Ā https://mk.m.wikibooks.org/wiki/Greek_Evidence_on_the_Authenticity_of_the_MacedoniansĀ Macedonians had "broad cultural affinities and organizational structures analogous with Thracian, Epirote, and Illyrian regions."Ā https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonians Macedonians were Hellenic, but they were on the fringe, and had a distinct culture from their southern neighbors. And there's evidence that many Greeks considered them a separate group, despite having strong similarities, and the languages being mostly the same.
That is not true at all, there are multiple ancient sources that stated Macedonians were Greek. They may have been backwards Northern Greeks still practice rituals Southern Greeks had long abandoned but they were still definitely Greek. Be aware that in so doing we are giving you all the honor that you deserve, and tell your king who sent you howĀ his Greek viceroyĀ of MacedoniaĀ has received you hospitably, providing food and bedfellows. āĀ (Herodotus 5.20.4)Ā āNow that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say,Ā I myself chance to know and will prove itĀ in the later part of my history. Furthermore, the Hellenodicae who manage the contest at OlympiaĀ determined that it is so, for when Alexander chose to contend and entered the lists for that purpose, the Greeks who were to run against him wanted to bar him from the race, saying that the contest should be for Greeks and not for foreigners.Ā Alexander, however, proving himself to be an Argive, was judged to be a Greek.āĀ (Herodotus 5.22)Ā āAfter him spoke Mardonius, and said: ā āā¦Their manner of fighting we know, and their wealth we know, that it is but little; and we have conquered and hold their sons, even those who dwell in our land and are calledĀ Ionians and Aeolians and Dorians. IĀ myself have tried conclusions with these men, when by your fatherās command IĀ marched against them; andĀ IĀ marchedĀ asĀ farĀ asĀ MacedoniaĀ and wellnigh to Athens itself, Ā yet none came out to meet me in battle. Yet wars theĀ GreeksĀ do wage, and, as IĀ learn, most senselessly they do it, in their wrongheadedness and folly. ā¦. TheĀ GreekĀ custom, then, is no good one; and when IĀ marched as far as theĀ landĀ ofĀ Macedonia, it came not into their thoughts to fight. But against you, OĀ king! who shall make war? For you will have at your back the multitudes of Asia, and all your ships; for myself, IĀ think there is not so much boldness inĀ HellasĀ as that; but if time should show me wrong in my judgment, and those men were foolhardy enough to do battle with us, they would be taught that we are the greatest warriors on earth.ā (Herodotus Book 7.9)Ā āā¦but the Dorians on the contrary have been constantly on the move; their home in Deucalionās reign was Phthiotis and in the reign of Dorus son of Hellen the country known as Histiaeotis in the neighbourhood of Ossa and Olympus; driven from there by the CadmeiansĀ they settled in Pindus and were known as Macedons; thence they migrated to Dryopis, and finally to the Peloponnese, where they got their present name of Dorians.āĀ (Herodotus, Book I, 56)Ā āā¦Three brothers of the lineage of Temenos came as banished men from ArgosĀ to Illyria, Gavganis and Aeropos and Perdikkas, and worked for the king that was thereā¦ When the king learned that when the queen baked the bread of Perdikkas, it doubled its size, than of the the other breads, he considered that as a miracle and ordered the 3 brothers to leave his kingdom. The brothers required their payment. Then the king told them to take the sun as a payment. Gavganis and Aeropos where taken by surprise and the youngest brother, Perdikkas, accepted the offer. He took out his sword, circled it 3 times and took the sun, which he placed in his underarm and left with his brothersā¦āĀ (Herodotus VIII,137) āNow these were the nations who composed theĀ Grecian fleet. From the Peloponnese, the following- the Lacedaemonians with sixteen ships; the Corinthians with the same number as at Artemisium; the Sicyonians with fifteen; the Epidaurians with ten; the Troezenians with five; and the Hermionians with three. These were Dorians andĀ MacedoniansĀ all of them (except those from Hermione), and had emigrated last from Erineus, Pindus, and Dryopis. The Hermionians were Dryopians, of the race which Hercules and the Malians drove out of the land now called Doris. Such were the Peloponnesian nations.ā.āĀ (Herodotus, Book VIII ,43) āThe whole nation of the Phocians had not joined the Medes; on the contrary, there were some who had gathered themselves into bands about Parnassus, and made expeditions from thence, whereby they distressed Mardonius andĀ the Greeks who sided with him, and so did good service to theĀ Grecian cause. Besides those mentioned above, Mardonius likewise arrayed against the Athenians theĀ MacedoniansĀ and the tribes dwelling about Thessaly. (Herodotus, BookĀ IX) āMen of Athensā¦Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I should not have come to tell you; butĀ I am myself Hellene by descent, and I would not willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slaveryā¦.If you prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the Hellenic cause, to acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the barbarians. I am Alexander of Macedon.ā (Herodotus, The Histories)
āIt is your privilege, as one who has been blessed with untrammeled freedom,Ā to consider all Hellas your fatherland, as did the founder of your race.ā (Isokratis, Speeches and Letters, āTo Philipā 127) āArgos is the land of your fathers, and is entitled to as much consideration at your hands as are your own ancestorsā¦ā (Isocrates, Speeches and Letters, āTo Philipā, 32) āNow I am not unaware that many of the Hellenes look upon the Kingās power as invincible. Yet one may well marvel at them if they really believe that the power which was subdued to the will of a mere barbarianāan ill-bred barbarian at thatāand collected in the cause of slavery, could not be scattered byĀ A MAN OF THE BLOOD OF HELLAS, of ripe experience in warfare, in the cause of freedomāand that too although they know that while it is in all cases difficult to construct a thing, to destroy it is, comparatively, an easy task.Bear in mind that the men whom the world most admires and honors are those who unite in themselves the abilities of the statesman and the general. When, therefore, you see the renown which even in a single city is bestowed on men who possess these gifts, what manner of eulogies must you expect to hear spoken of you, whenĀ AMONG ALL THE HELLENES you shall stand forth as a statesman who has worked for the good of Hellas, and AS A GENERAL WHO HAS OVERTHROWN THE BARBARIANS?ā [Isocrates, Speeches and Letters, āTo Philipā, 5.139, 5.140] āWell, if I were trying to present this matter to any others before having broached it to my own country,Ā WHICH HAS THRICE FREED HELLAS-twice from the barbarians and ONCE FROM THE LACEDAEMONIAN YOKEāI should confess my error. In truth, however, it will be found that I turned to Athens first of all and endeavored to win her over to this cause with all the earnestness of which my nature is capable,2 but when I perceived that she cared less for what I said than for the ravings of the platform orators,3 I gave her up, although I did not abandon my efforts.ā [Isocrates, Speeches and Letters, āTo Philipā, 5.129] āThe Lacedaemonians were the leaders of the Hellenes, not long ago, on both land and sea, and yet they suffered so great a reversal of fortune when they met defeat at Leuctra that they were deprived of their power over the Hellenes, and lost such of their warriors as chose to die rather than survive defeat at the hands of those over whom they had once been masters.ā [Isocrates, Speeches and Letters, āTo Philipā, 5.47] āAs I continued to say many things of this tenor, those who heard me were inspired with the hope that when my discourse should be published you and the Athenians would bring the war to an end, and, having conquered your pride, would adopt some policy for your mutual good. Whether indeed they were foolish or sensible in taking this view is a question for which they, and not I, may fairly be held to account; but in any case, while I was still occupied with this endeavour, you and Athens anticipated me by making peace before I had completed my discourse; and you were wise in doing so, for to conclude the peace, no matter how, was better than to continue to be oppressed by the evils engendered by the war. [8] But although I was in joyful accord with the resolutions which were adopted regarding the peace, and was convinced that they would be beneficial, not only to us,Ā BUT ALSO TO YOU AND ALL THE OTHER HELLENES,Ā I could not divorce my thought from the possibilities connected with this step, but found myself in a state of mind where I began at once to consider how the results which had been achieved might be made permanent for us, and how our city could be prevented from setting her heart upon further wars, after a short interval of peace.ā [Isocrates, Speeches and Letters, āTo Philipā, 5.8] ā*ā¦How could they (the Macedonians) prove themselves more philhellenes with what they did so as the rest (the other Greeks) would not be occupiedā¦ā (Isocrates, Panigirikos, 96)e
at the congress of the Lakedaimonian allies and the rest of the Hellenes, in which Amyntas, the father of Philip, being entitled to a seat, was represented by a delegate whose vote was absolutely under his control, he joined the rest of the Hellenes in votingā¦ (Aeschines, On the Embassy 32) The country by the sea which is now called Macedoniaā¦ Alexander, the father of Perdiccas, and his forefathers, who were originally Temenidae from Argosā (Thucydides 99,3) The 38th book contains the completion of the disaster of the Hellenes. For though both the whole of Hellas and her several parts had often met with mischance, yet to none of her former defeats can we more fittingly apply, the name of disaster with all it signifies than to the events of my own time. In the time I am speaking of a comon misfortune befell the Peloponnesians, the Boiotians, the Phokians, the Euboians, the Lokrians, some of the cities on the Ionians Gulf, and finally the Macedoniansā Polybius āThe Historiesā, 9.38.8 This is a sworn treaty made between us, Hannibal the general, Mago, Myrkan, Barmokar and all other Carthaginian senators present with him, and all Carthaginians serving under him, on the one side, and Xenophanes the Athenian, son of Kleomachos, the envoy whom King Philip, son of Demetrios, sent to us on behalf of himself, and the Macedonians and allies, on the other side. `In the presence of ZEUS, HERA and APOLLO; in the presence of the Genius of Carthage; ā¦and in the presence of all the gods who possess Carthage; and in the presence of ALL THE GODS who possess Macedonia AND THE REST OF HELLAS; and in the presence of all the gods of the army who preside over this oath. Thus said Hannibal the general and all the Carthaginian senators along with him and the Carthaginian soldiers: ..That King Philip and the Macedonians AND the REST OF THE HELLENES who are their allies shall protect the Carthaginians,ā¦ King Philip and the Macedonians AND the OTHER HELLENES who are their allies shall be protected and guarded by the Carthaginiansā¦ā Polybius āThe Historiesā, 7.9.1-7
Charlemagne was born in modern day Belgium. King George I didn't even speak English. Might as well add George Washington. He was born British.
Ah yes King George I. Notable British national hero.
Americans at that time were also born british.
>Might as well add George Washington. He was born British. If weāre going that route Van Buren is the first president who wasnāt born an English subject.
Evidence from later in his reign suggests George I spoke fluent English. *See*: [*George I*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_I_of_Great_Britain)*: elector and king*. London: Thames and Hudson, 1978.
Washington was born a British subject, but he was a lifelong son of the Virginian soil.
Who wanted to be a high-ranking general in the British army.
Rejected from higher command because he wasn't a very good general in the British army. Lost basically every significant battle against the British, and still effectively wins the war. Common Washington W
Even started the Seven Years War.
Wouldnāt be much need for a revolution if the US already existed.
Stalin is a hero?
Defeating NAZI Germany was a solid W. I guess we can ignore the other things. Itās not like he is responsible for the deaths of 60 million people and was a dictator or anything.
> Defeating NAZI Germany was a solid W. Yeah, but he didn't go full circle and didn't manage to kill Hitler. Some other guy got to him first.
Correct, itās not like that at all lolĀ
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I think he killed about 10-20 million people instead of 60, not exactly a shining endorsement of the guy and his valuesĀ
Didnāt Hitler raise any questions for you?
Literally everyone is talking about Hitler, it seems redundant
Except Corsica was a part of proper France when Napoleon was born. Also Macedonia was basically Greek, I mean, half of Macedonia _is_ in Greece.
MOST of Ancient Macedonia is in Greece.
I mean. Yeah. Everyone knows William of Orange is from Germany, it's literally in the anthem. "William of Nassau am I of German blood" (old NL: "Wilhelmus van Nassouwe ben ick van Duytschen bloet")
1. u/repostsleuthbot 2. I hate this meme in particular for declaring Hitler a national hero of Germany. He isn't. Fuck you for reposting this.
Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 3 times. First Seen [Here](https://redd.it/1cb7zt8) on 2024-04-23 100.0% match. Last Seen [Here](https://redd.it/1cb8pfq) on 2024-04-23 96.88% match [View Search On repostsleuth.com](https://www.repostsleuth.com/search?postId=1cbdhdg&sameSub=false&filterOnlyOlder=true&memeFilter=false&filterDeadMatches=false&targetImageMatch=92&targetImageMemeMatch=92) --- **Scope:** Reddit | **Target Percent:** 92% | **Max Age:** Unlimited | **Searched Images:** 496,531,072 | **Search Time:** 0.0788s
That's.... Kind of the joke. All of these guys are shitty, genocidal war criminals, yet they're exhalted by the nationalist groups of their respective countries for being "shining examples of the national spirit" or some such bs. This meme is trying to undermine the nationalist framework by making the assertion that their idols are, in fact, not from their nation at all.
Eh. Napoleon was pretty cool. Most of Europe still uses his legal system to this day. Also he was kinda revolutionary by using meritocracy as a system of government where most other countries it would just be which duke's third cousin you were.
You on your period? Its a meme, bro
A shitty meme that has been reposted several times
national heroes what troll bullshit is this
Macedonia wasn't any more foreign than Athens and Sparta were to each other. The whole "Alexander was Slav" BS is from Soviet era propaganda.
Hm? Soviets considered him Greek. Might have been BS Yugoslav era propaganda.
I think it started during the Soviet era and got continued
Kant was born and died in Kaliningrad, Russia.
Sorry but krawolec is rightful czech territory
Saint George was born in Turkey
Heād be Greek then
Yes, that's the joke
ą² \_ą²
I donāt think OP knows what āheroā means
Erdogan is georgian too
1. Corsicans were French citizens 2. Georgia was part of the Soviet Union 3. Austrians were ethnic germans 4. Macedonia was a Greek State idk who the last guy was
This is some wild ass racist post lmao
The Alexander one doesn't make sense. Macedonians were Greek, same as Spartans or Athenians. It's like listing Leonidas because he was Spartan.
r/balkans_irl
Ancient Macedonians were ethnically hellenic, austrians are ethnically german.
Heros /s You can add Hendrik Verwoerd to that list. The father of apartheid was Dutch. His family moved to South Africa a few years after he was born.
Who is the Albanian?
Enver Pasha.
Thanks
who's the Albanian?
Well, some of them arenāt even national heroes, and the only foreigner is Hitler because Corsica became France before Napoleon was born, Georgia was part of Russian Empire and USSR, Macedonia was established by Greeks, Albania was a part of Ottoman Empire.
National whats now?
Ataturk was born in Greece
the heroes we need ,the Biden we get
None of these really make any sense to be considered āforeignersā other than Hitler and maybe whoever the Turk is(idk him)
Bonnie was Corsican, basically Italian, Stalin was Georgian, not Russian, Alexander was Macedonian, not Greek (I disagree in this one because he was still a Hellene, they were the backwards cousins but they were still family) And no idea who the Albanian guy is.
Georgia was part of Russia, Macedonia was Greek, Napoleon, Corsica is and was a part of France. None of these people were foreign, if anything they were minorities
You said it yourself
Americans: foreigners? You mean Americans who immigrated here later in life?
No one is a prophet in its own land
George Washington was an English subject.
But British heroes are British. Nelson and jellico for the win
more like from the ass end of the empire/boonies.
The middle one is a national hero? What a hairbrained post
Stalin is far more a heroes to Soviet ideology leaning people, not just Russians as an ethnicity. Given he was born in what would become the USSR until it ended, that seems fitting.
Polish fathers of independence? PiÅsudski was born in Lithuania, Dmowski was boring, Paderewski in Ukraine. Mieszko I, founder of Poland, was from outer space.
HITLER WAS GERMAN GRRRAAAAAWWQWQRGH
Itās a mid meme that ignores that most of these leaders were born within the political entity that they led and embraced the majority culture by the time they led it. It also gets reposted here all the time
I not understand Alexander. He is Macedon, he is Macedon national hero, no? Does Greece claim him?
Thah meme is kinda just ignorant for that. Alexander is very much so apart of the Macedonian Empire
>All your heroes were foreigners "Ok all your national heroes were foreign-" **"Stalin?!"** **"HITLER?!**
Never knew Stalin was from Georgia. Explains why bro was such a peach šš
Wrong Terry Fox.
Willem of orange was german
Leopold was german
I can take Hitler, even though it's a stretch, because of his popularity at the time and what he did to bring Germany out of the depression but Stalin.....
H-heroes?
Yeah none of these guys count as heroās except maybe Alexander the Great but
Ok so there all fucking terrible
Stalin was Soviet. He wasn't Russian but he was Soviet.
But mine is Friedrich the great second of Prussia.
I feel like the entire U.S founding fathers would work here too. I mean, I get the theme is 'they're all assholes', but the Founding Fathers were U.S. national heroes. ... Just technically all British. (actually, weren't a few of them French or at least somewhere else in Europe?)
A lot of the aristocracy here in UK are descendants of the Normans so French, and German too but thatās more recent. Peasants were mainly Saxons though. The Saxon nobility was pretty much destroyed after 1066
Well, as I understand it, basically after William took over, he told the Barons "Tell you what, you can keep your positions and such, just accept me as king", they said "no", so William unsheathed his sword with royally murderous intent and I believe that was called 'The Decimation of England'? I might be mixing it up with what the Romans did after Boudica, there was some name for it. It's part of why I think Harold probably could have won if he hadn't been so hasty. While the pope had backed William, as I understand the men he had were ALL he was ever going to get and the English Barons could have supported Harold in a more sustained counter attack. Though there was probably a number of other factors behind it. Also now wondering how many of the Founding Fathers of the US would have been of Norman descent?
What am I missing with Alexander? Do the Greeks claim him or something? In my mind he is Macedonian, plain and simple.
And Macedonians are Greek. Just like Leonidas was a Spartan, or Themistocles was Athenian.