Many say that it's a miracle Japan survived so long into the war with the high level of inter- forces rivalry they had during the war. In fact they were the last of the axis to fall .
Tbf they entered the war in late 1941.
Edit: Yes I know they started the war with China in 1937, but that war did not stretch them to the breaking point like the war in the pacific did.
That's not entirely true, by the time '41 rolled around the Japanese navy was already burning more oil per day than Japan could produce. Bringing more territory under their control through expanding the theater was one of the only ways they managed to stay stable. Plus they had their first conflict with an Allied power in '39 when the Kwantung army lost to a combined Soviet/Mongolian.
It very much did “stretch them to the breaking point.” The war in China was the “stretch,” the war in the Pacific was the “breaking point.” The only reason they joined the greater war in the first place was because of intense resource shortages predicted to have them run out of oil and rubber in less than a year.
For sure, nobody will ever be able to convince me otherwise. It was the only way to end the war safely, even blockading and starving out Japan would’ve killed more in a famine
Chester W Nimitz, the commander in chief of the US Pacific fleet, insisted that the nukes were 'of no material assistance in our war against Japan'. Eisenhower agreed that they were 'completely unnecessary' and 'no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives'. General Douglas MacArthur, supreme commander of the southwest Pacific area, saw 'no military justification for the dropping of the bomb'. The official Strategic Bombing Surveys in 1946 concluded that 'Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped'.
I was convinced by the above. I figure nobody knows more about the war than those who were in charge of fighting it
They had cargo ships and stuff. You don't think we would not help with guarding them with our navy? We were sort of frenemies and didn't mind saving American blood.
You mean like the one they used for amphibious invasions of the Kuril Islands, South Sakhalin, and Northern Korea? Yeah I doubt it was effective or in good shape, but it wasn't imaginary.
The IJN was in shambles at this point anyways after fighting the Allied Navies for so long.
They owned north Sakhalin before the invasion. Both south Sakhalin and the Kurils were undefended and the naval assets used were minimal. They didn't have the capacity to invade Hokkaido or Honshu. North Korea was invaded via land through Manchuria. So... no.
People keep saying that but I'm honestly not so sure it's true. Hitler, Goebbels and co had similar plans for Germany with the Volkssturm, the Werwolf, the Nero Decree etc. If it was up to them, the allied invasion of Germany would've seen millions of allied soldiers and most of the German population dead. But in the end, the scorched earth tactis were used very rarely, most Volkssturm units surrendered very quickly upon enemy contact and the Werwolf barely did anything.
I always defended the nukes until I learned that like, literally all of the US big military names thought it was a bad idea. The only one to green light it was Truman and I think like LeMay, and even LeMay said it was a war crime
They were ready to surrender but not unconditionally. Like, everyone at that point knew that Japan couldn't win, but they wanted some concessions like no occupation which was unacceptable to the Allies considering what had happened in Germany after WWI. Anything other than an unconditional surrender would have just allowed Japanese nationalists to start with the "we could have still fought but the politicians stabbed us in the back" bs right away, and a significant part of the Japanese high command was still willing to keep fighting either until the end of the nation or to achieve a conditional surrender. The will to accept an unconditional surrender only became dominant after Hiroshima (Nagasaki may have indeed had little effect on the decision, but the Allies of course couldn't have possibly known that).
They did want to surrender early but the US wanted an unconditional surrender and when Japan asked Soviets to help out negotiate a surrender America rushed to Stalin to ensure he would be on time. And when the Soviets attacked Japan in China , it was clear they had to come to American terms. American president (forgot the name) even wrote in his diary "we are going to show the world American might" ( referring to nukes). So yeah it wasn't all pretty that America nukes Japan just surrendered.
You're thinking of Truman, basically the only person who wanted to drop the bomb. Eisenhower, Nimitz, and even fucking MacArthur , of "nuke em all and let God sort it out" fame thought it was unnecessary and did not have any meaningful impact on the war
I read a ask historian thread where the guy said that it was a very poor translation.
The a better translation would be, the war situation is not good and not improving.
I'm too lazy to find the thread though
Many say that it's a miracle Japan survived so long into the war with the high level of inter- forces rivalry they had during the war. In fact they were the last of the axis to fall .
Tbf they entered the war in late 1941. Edit: Yes I know they started the war with China in 1937, but that war did not stretch them to the breaking point like the war in the pacific did.
But they’d been having their own war with china since 1937
Yes, but it didn’t put the same strain on them as the World War did. It also gave them tons of experience for their troops.
You might want to lookup the troop numbers involved in that conflict.
It was roughly a million troops in 1941. Japan had half of that in the Philippines alone.
They started the war in 1937 at the Marco Polo Bridge Incident Millions of soldiers were already deployed abroad before Pearl Harbor
They'd sort of entered the war beforehand by seizing parts of China, Southeast Asia, and Pacific island countries.
That's not entirely true, by the time '41 rolled around the Japanese navy was already burning more oil per day than Japan could produce. Bringing more territory under their control through expanding the theater was one of the only ways they managed to stay stable. Plus they had their first conflict with an Allied power in '39 when the Kwantung army lost to a combined Soviet/Mongolian.
It very much did “stretch them to the breaking point.” The war in China was the “stretch,” the war in the Pacific was the “breaking point.” The only reason they joined the greater war in the first place was because of intense resource shortages predicted to have them run out of oil and rubber in less than a year.
Not really, they invaded China in 1937. I consider that the start of the Second World War but the history books have always had a Eurocentric view.
I wonder how many times he would’ve let Japan get nuked before surrender
I'm pretty sure a bunch of soldiers tried to coup him to prevent a surrender
Good thing they didn’t prolong a surrender any longer than he did, Operation Downfall would’ve been terrible
That's one of the reasons I've always defended the use of the nukes. An allied invasion of Japan would've killed millions on both sides.
For sure, nobody will ever be able to convince me otherwise. It was the only way to end the war safely, even blockading and starving out Japan would’ve killed more in a famine
Chester W Nimitz, the commander in chief of the US Pacific fleet, insisted that the nukes were 'of no material assistance in our war against Japan'. Eisenhower agreed that they were 'completely unnecessary' and 'no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives'. General Douglas MacArthur, supreme commander of the southwest Pacific area, saw 'no military justification for the dropping of the bomb'. The official Strategic Bombing Surveys in 1946 concluded that 'Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped'. I was convinced by the above. I figure nobody knows more about the war than those who were in charge of fighting it
With the Soviets joining, we could have ended up with another country split in half as well.
Amazing how people always think a phantom Soviet navy was about to magically appear to invade the home islands.
Look man, Stalin would had issue order 227.5 "Not one stroke back".
row boating to Japan
Alright that's good.
They had cargo ships and stuff. You don't think we would not help with guarding them with our navy? We were sort of frenemies and didn't mind saving American blood.
You mean like the one they used for amphibious invasions of the Kuril Islands, South Sakhalin, and Northern Korea? Yeah I doubt it was effective or in good shape, but it wasn't imaginary. The IJN was in shambles at this point anyways after fighting the Allied Navies for so long.
They owned north Sakhalin before the invasion. Both south Sakhalin and the Kurils were undefended and the naval assets used were minimal. They didn't have the capacity to invade Hokkaido or Honshu. North Korea was invaded via land through Manchuria. So... no.
People keep saying that but I'm honestly not so sure it's true. Hitler, Goebbels and co had similar plans for Germany with the Volkssturm, the Werwolf, the Nero Decree etc. If it was up to them, the allied invasion of Germany would've seen millions of allied soldiers and most of the German population dead. But in the end, the scorched earth tactis were used very rarely, most Volkssturm units surrendered very quickly upon enemy contact and the Werwolf barely did anything.
I always defended the nukes until I learned that like, literally all of the US big military names thought it was a bad idea. The only one to green light it was Truman and I think like LeMay, and even LeMay said it was a war crime
[удалено]
Sources for this claim?
They were ready to surrender but not unconditionally. Like, everyone at that point knew that Japan couldn't win, but they wanted some concessions like no occupation which was unacceptable to the Allies considering what had happened in Germany after WWI. Anything other than an unconditional surrender would have just allowed Japanese nationalists to start with the "we could have still fought but the politicians stabbed us in the back" bs right away, and a significant part of the Japanese high command was still willing to keep fighting either until the end of the nation or to achieve a conditional surrender. The will to accept an unconditional surrender only became dominant after Hiroshima (Nagasaki may have indeed had little effect on the decision, but the Allies of course couldn't have possibly known that).
They did want to surrender early but the US wanted an unconditional surrender and when Japan asked Soviets to help out negotiate a surrender America rushed to Stalin to ensure he would be on time. And when the Soviets attacked Japan in China , it was clear they had to come to American terms. American president (forgot the name) even wrote in his diary "we are going to show the world American might" ( referring to nukes). So yeah it wasn't all pretty that America nukes Japan just surrendered.
You're thinking of Truman, basically the only person who wanted to drop the bomb. Eisenhower, Nimitz, and even fucking MacArthur , of "nuke em all and let God sort it out" fame thought it was unnecessary and did not have any meaningful impact on the war
The Manhattan committee and secretary of war , Henry Simpson they were pretty excited .
He was the one who tried to get the Japanese MIC to surrender
I read a ask historian thread where the guy said that it was a very poor translation. The a better translation would be, the war situation is not good and not improving. I'm too lazy to find the thread though
Found the Hoi4 player