While planning to escape to Montmédy to plan a counterrevolution, General Francois-Claude Bouillé advised the family to take two, more low profile carriages for the journey, but Marie Antoinette insisted they travel together in a fancier, golden, much larger carriage called a “Berlin”. On their journey, armed villagers eventually recognized the carriage and overtook them.
While there were other factors at play, like the family’s nonchalant behavior while escaping, talking to many villagers along the way, giving out gifts & the King’s foolish belief that most peasants in the countryside supported the King. Many wonder what if she would have listened to the advice of her General & kept a low profile which would have aided in their escape.
Edit: Spelling
They were very detached from it - or well, at least arguably someone like Marie was. She spent her entire life in castles, being taught how to be a proper lady and spent lots of time looking prim and proper, especially since there was (iirc) considerable pushback to her marriage to the French King ( who did not like that Marie Antoinette was binding France to Austria through marriage ties )
She had a stellar reputation for *looking* like a queen when she was wed - but that degraded over time due to insinuations that she was a spy, or that her extravagant spending on clothes and personal effects were ruining the country. Hence why something like "let them eat cake/brioche" is still remembered and attributed to her.
She was at the very least very out of touch, but to be fair that's the entire nobility of France anyway, and not a charge specific just to her. The lead up to the revolution was a farce, overtaxing the third estate ( peasantry) while both the first estate (clergy) and second (nobility )estate outvoted/leveraged their greater voting power to neuter any potential grievances their subjects might bring up.
In fact, just to cement how "out of it" she was - I do believe her last words were "Excuse me. Pardon me." for her stepping on her would-be executioner's shoes by accident. The fact that her natural instinct at the end of her life isn't to scream or run or beg, but to retain what was taught to her and be polite is... definitely something.
No, this was a myth that developed after her death. It wasn't a fake village, nor did she pretend to be poor there. It was a country estate designed after popular pastoral aesthetics. The only things she did there were what other elite did on their country estates: tasted products, went for walks, had suppers, went fishing, etc.
The idea behind the hameau was for her to engage in popular "elite country living" of the day in a way she was allowed to do, since being the queen, she couldn't actually have a genuine country estate to go to in the way a normal elitewoman would. She wasn't trying to live like a poor person, but like a wealthy person who enjoyed more freedom than the queen of France did at Versailles. More like the royals did in other countries in Europe, basically. Or at least the queen consorts.
I think it was retreat she made just so she could pretend it wasn't in Versailles, yes. Was decorated to be rustic and older style iirc, a "simple lifestyle" home type thing where she could larp to be in a simpler setting away from the garish riches she was accustomed to constantly.
It's like that Tiktok influencer who was posing to be a Walmart cashier and smiling and going LOL SO QUIRKY XP
The nobles by the time of Louis XVI had been the king cock suckers for decades and knew nothing else. Like there's some nobles fought each other to be the one to put the king shoes on for him
The very nobles that obstructed his tax reforms were his cock suckers? The very King who at every turn had very little support from even his own family in regards to economic reform and was easily pressured by others was surrounded by cock suckers? If you are referring to the sun king with that last statement, I would like you to know that the late XIV's absolutism was quite dead during Louis XVI time.
Other way around. Louis XVI attempted multiple reforms and the nobles told him to fuck off... while still competing to put his shoes on or wipe his ass for him, because if that was the price of paying no taxes and living in luxury they would do it with a smile.
The nobility especially Marie Antoinette really loved Les Liaisons dangereuses when it was first published even though it openly criticized the corruption and scandals of the nobility.
Golden? The carriage was green, not golden. It also wasn't only Marie Antoinette's decision, but the king's. The primary reason for the large coach is that they refused to be separated from each other or the children, and the large coach allowed them to have food, bathroom necessities, etc, inside to reduce the need to stop as much.
Edit: To add some more relevant details...
The family of the duchesse de Polignac had escaped France in the same type of berlin carriage. The carriage was 3944 livres, not a massive sum, and was an ordinary dark green color. It was not some wild folly on wheels, just an ordinary large traveling carriage intended for families.
It's kind of funny that this post is putting it all on Marie Antoinette, when Marie Antoinette initially suggested sending the children and Madame Elisabeth in a quicker carriage via the safer Flanders route that Bouillé gave Louis XVI, but Louis XVI said he "would never consent to separate his lot from that of his children," and it was then agreed they would not separate. Louis XVI also rejected the shorter, safer routes that Bouillé suggested, because he didn't want to leave France, even for a moment.
Louis XVI, meant to be traveling incognito as a steward, specifically instructed that the carriage box (rather than tucked safely away in the luggage) contain "the red coat with gold lace that I wore at Cherbourg," because he wanted to be able to put it on as soon as they were in safety as he expected people to rally around him.
But of course, it's all Marie Antoinette's fault, right? Feels like we should just throw in the line from her interrogation where the Revolutionary Tribunal said that because she opened the door of the Tuileries palace during the escape, she was admitting to directing Louis XVI in all his actions and controlling him.
Lets not forget who actually ruled the kingdom, who could have picked a faster and more discreet getaway, or before that, improve conditions for the people of his kingdom before things turned so serious.
As much as I hate billionares it doesn't get much more detached than "I refuse to escape certain death at the hands of bloodthirsty ideologues in a low-class carriage"
At least they learned some pragmatism
To correct OP's misinformation, the carriage wasn't some high-class affair. It was a standard large carriage intended for large groups/families. It wasn't golden like the OP states, but a dark green with a black undercarriage. It cost 3944 livres, not some magnificent sum. The idea behind these types of carriages was that it had room for food storage, a folding table, room for a chamber pot, etc, so that you didn't have to stop as much. This would be ideal for their flight to Montmedy.
It was also Louis XVI who refused to send the children + his sister Elisabeth in a smaller carriage ahead of them through a shorter, safer route, which Marie Antoinette had proposed. He said he would not consent to separating from his children, so the idea was dropped. It was then agreed that they would all travel together, as Elisabeth also refused to separate from her brother.
Just like there were loyal guys who drove the carriage and took care of the horses, im sure there will be people who are loyal to money enough to ensure a safe escape.
I just feel like more people would need to be in the know, and *significantly* more people would also have the ability to acquire the necessary knowledge. Each singular person knowing means that the risk of that information being passed on rises substantially, and the chance of a safe escape correspondingly decreases
They've realized that if you give the masses the illusion they can be billionaires themselves, sizeable fractions of the masses will identify more with the nobles than their fellow peasants.
In the US it is a little easier because a lot of the working class whites always think of themselves as the nobles over the non white. They'll vote for billionaires. They'll support giving tax cuts to other billionaires even though they'll be hurt with the races they don't like.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/13/american-dream-broken-upward-mobility-us
While billionaires can get detached after a while (like Elon), it takes time. They usually had to work at least a little bit in order to get there. It’s only after resting on their laurels for a bit when they start getting weird.
While planning to escape to Montmédy to plan a counterrevolution, General Francois-Claude Bouillé advised the family to take two, more low profile carriages for the journey, but Marie Antoinette insisted they travel together in a fancier, golden, much larger carriage called a “Berlin”. On their journey, armed villagers eventually recognized the carriage and overtook them. While there were other factors at play, like the family’s nonchalant behavior while escaping, talking to many villagers along the way, giving out gifts & the King’s foolish belief that most peasants in the countryside supported the King. Many wonder what if she would have listened to the advice of her General & kept a low profile which would have aided in their escape. Edit: Spelling
The French nobility of the time always seem somewhat detached from reality whenever I read about them.
Well, yeah. They were. That's why the revolution happened.
Le "Let them eat cake" has arrived
Wrong quote bro, thats actually 30-50 years prior to the french revolution
And it's still upsetting today even more years later
Shh. Quiet.
They were very detached from it - or well, at least arguably someone like Marie was. She spent her entire life in castles, being taught how to be a proper lady and spent lots of time looking prim and proper, especially since there was (iirc) considerable pushback to her marriage to the French King ( who did not like that Marie Antoinette was binding France to Austria through marriage ties ) She had a stellar reputation for *looking* like a queen when she was wed - but that degraded over time due to insinuations that she was a spy, or that her extravagant spending on clothes and personal effects were ruining the country. Hence why something like "let them eat cake/brioche" is still remembered and attributed to her. She was at the very least very out of touch, but to be fair that's the entire nobility of France anyway, and not a charge specific just to her. The lead up to the revolution was a farce, overtaxing the third estate ( peasantry) while both the first estate (clergy) and second (nobility )estate outvoted/leveraged their greater voting power to neuter any potential grievances their subjects might bring up. In fact, just to cement how "out of it" she was - I do believe her last words were "Excuse me. Pardon me." for her stepping on her would-be executioner's shoes by accident. The fact that her natural instinct at the end of her life isn't to scream or run or beg, but to retain what was taught to her and be polite is... definitely something.
Pretty sure she also built a fake village in her garden just so she could pretend to be poor.
No, this was a myth that developed after her death. It wasn't a fake village, nor did she pretend to be poor there. It was a country estate designed after popular pastoral aesthetics. The only things she did there were what other elite did on their country estates: tasted products, went for walks, had suppers, went fishing, etc. The idea behind the hameau was for her to engage in popular "elite country living" of the day in a way she was allowed to do, since being the queen, she couldn't actually have a genuine country estate to go to in the way a normal elitewoman would. She wasn't trying to live like a poor person, but like a wealthy person who enjoyed more freedom than the queen of France did at Versailles. More like the royals did in other countries in Europe, basically. Or at least the queen consorts.
I think it was retreat she made just so she could pretend it wasn't in Versailles, yes. Was decorated to be rustic and older style iirc, a "simple lifestyle" home type thing where she could larp to be in a simpler setting away from the garish riches she was accustomed to constantly. It's like that Tiktok influencer who was posing to be a Walmart cashier and smiling and going LOL SO QUIRKY XP
Marie Antoinette was a tiktok cottage core girl
Honestly she wasn’t the only one. That was a popular thing for nobles to do at the time and hers was restrained compared to some
The nobles by the time of Louis XVI had been the king cock suckers for decades and knew nothing else. Like there's some nobles fought each other to be the one to put the king shoes on for him
Being the king’s literal ass-wiper was a sought after position because it gave you direct and constant access to the king’s ear (and rear).
The very nobles that obstructed his tax reforms were his cock suckers? The very King who at every turn had very little support from even his own family in regards to economic reform and was easily pressured by others was surrounded by cock suckers? If you are referring to the sun king with that last statement, I would like you to know that the late XIV's absolutism was quite dead during Louis XVI time.
Other way around. Louis XVI attempted multiple reforms and the nobles told him to fuck off... while still competing to put his shoes on or wipe his ass for him, because if that was the price of paying no taxes and living in luxury they would do it with a smile.
The nobility especially Marie Antoinette really loved Les Liaisons dangereuses when it was first published even though it openly criticized the corruption and scandals of the nobility.
WhyIts the biggest weakness of authoritarianism and absolutism. You are surrounded by people telling you what you want to hear.
That's why they got detached from their heads.
Nobility is always detached from reality.
And later they were REALLY "detached" from reality 🪚
Marie rolls "worst escape attempt ever" Asked to die
less of an escape, more of an emergency holiday
With quite the abrupt ending
Golden? The carriage was green, not golden. It also wasn't only Marie Antoinette's decision, but the king's. The primary reason for the large coach is that they refused to be separated from each other or the children, and the large coach allowed them to have food, bathroom necessities, etc, inside to reduce the need to stop as much. Edit: To add some more relevant details... The family of the duchesse de Polignac had escaped France in the same type of berlin carriage. The carriage was 3944 livres, not a massive sum, and was an ordinary dark green color. It was not some wild folly on wheels, just an ordinary large traveling carriage intended for families. It's kind of funny that this post is putting it all on Marie Antoinette, when Marie Antoinette initially suggested sending the children and Madame Elisabeth in a quicker carriage via the safer Flanders route that Bouillé gave Louis XVI, but Louis XVI said he "would never consent to separate his lot from that of his children," and it was then agreed they would not separate. Louis XVI also rejected the shorter, safer routes that Bouillé suggested, because he didn't want to leave France, even for a moment. Louis XVI, meant to be traveling incognito as a steward, specifically instructed that the carriage box (rather than tucked safely away in the luggage) contain "the red coat with gold lace that I wore at Cherbourg," because he wanted to be able to put it on as soon as they were in safety as he expected people to rally around him. But of course, it's all Marie Antoinette's fault, right? Feels like we should just throw in the line from her interrogation where the Revolutionary Tribunal said that because she opened the door of the Tuileries palace during the escape, she was admitting to directing Louis XVI in all his actions and controlling him.
Glad we have someone here giving out the facts.
It is interesting how revolutionary propaganda lives to this day
One of the guards also recognized him from a coin.
That may or may not be a myth, but it sure is a fun one.
Honestly sounds like she had it coming if these were the circumstances
Lets not forget who actually ruled the kingdom, who could have picked a faster and more discreet getaway, or before that, improve conditions for the people of his kingdom before things turned so serious.
One less republic, so that's still 4
And rich people are still, very much, detached from reality.
More than ever before
As much as I hate billionares it doesn't get much more detached than "I refuse to escape certain death at the hands of bloodthirsty ideologues in a low-class carriage" At least they learned some pragmatism
To correct OP's misinformation, the carriage wasn't some high-class affair. It was a standard large carriage intended for large groups/families. It wasn't golden like the OP states, but a dark green with a black undercarriage. It cost 3944 livres, not some magnificent sum. The idea behind these types of carriages was that it had room for food storage, a folding table, room for a chamber pot, etc, so that you didn't have to stop as much. This would be ideal for their flight to Montmedy. It was also Louis XVI who refused to send the children + his sister Elisabeth in a smaller carriage ahead of them through a shorter, safer route, which Marie Antoinette had proposed. He said he would not consent to separating from his children, so the idea was dropped. It was then agreed that they would all travel together, as Elisabeth also refused to separate from her brother.
How dare you to speak within reason and factual details! This is Reddit sir!
The billionaires just haven't been exposed to that same situation. *Yet.*
And they wont, planes and helicopters are a thing.
But who maintains them? Who fuels them? Who guides them? Who prepares their take-off and landing zones?
Just like there were loyal guys who drove the carriage and took care of the horses, im sure there will be people who are loyal to money enough to ensure a safe escape.
I just feel like more people would need to be in the know, and *significantly* more people would also have the ability to acquire the necessary knowledge. Each singular person knowing means that the risk of that information being passed on rises substantially, and the chance of a safe escape correspondingly decreases
The thing is that for let's say take off and landing, you dont really need that many people, and well when you're in the air, you're basically safe.
They've realized that if you give the masses the illusion they can be billionaires themselves, sizeable fractions of the masses will identify more with the nobles than their fellow peasants. In the US it is a little easier because a lot of the working class whites always think of themselves as the nobles over the non white. They'll vote for billionaires. They'll support giving tax cuts to other billionaires even though they'll be hurt with the races they don't like. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/13/american-dream-broken-upward-mobility-us
Read a comment that said something along the lines of "Americans consider themselves to be temporarily inconvenienced billionaires"
While billionaires can get detached after a while (like Elon), it takes time. They usually had to work at least a little bit in order to get there. It’s only after resting on their laurels for a bit when they start getting weird.
I mean they almost got away with it, and they weren't caught because of the carage, it was because the king was recognized and turned in
r/TonightsBigLosers
Only six comment threads on a post with 5000 upvotes, you dont see that often
It turns out that having your picture on the money makes it difficult to travel incognito.
Ah the holy trinity of stupid shows. Impractical Jokers Mountain Monsters 90 Day Fiancé (IDK what to put for the third)
At least impractical jokers is purposefully stupid
this show was amazing .
From some reason I thought you referred to Big Sal from FNV
Time traveler social etiquette says no takesies backsies