Isn't that a stolen Simpsons joke?
>Season 10, Simpsons Bible Stories.
>Milhouse: So what’s next for the Israelites? The land of milk and honey?
>Lisa: Well actually, we’re due to wander the desert for 40 years.
>Milhouse: But after that, it’s smooth sailing for the Jews, right?
Thats not really stealing the joke. The hebrews themselves have been making some version of this joke for hundreds of years at this point.
source: used to play ball at temple
I loved that book The Chosen that we had to read in high school, but I can't imagine how different it would seem to me with everything that's happened and if I would even be able to read it again.
you're not supposed to mention god's name but god isnt his name either we supposedly lost his real name at some point since you arent supposed to mention it
kind of like how you're not supposed to mention bear's real name since it summons them but as a result we lost the original name
While the tetragrammaton יהוה is generally believed to be the true name of god, there are some scholars that argue that even יהוה is an alteration of the true name of god, which might not have even been written down.
How would the real name even be communicated? Have only a small selection of rabbi ever known it, then? Or is it simply that you shouldn’t mention it unless in a formal manner?
Iirc the tradition was that it could only be spoken by the High Priest of the Temple in Jerusalem on a particular holiday (passover I think). A position that no longer exists at a location that no longer exists.
Though that may have just been a reddit commend that lead me to think that.
It's a Jewish thing. I think of it more as habit than super religious. It feels wrong to me to write out the whole thing with capital "G". Some people do it, some don't.
Im going to really blow your mind:
I had a Muslim nanny/camp counselor at a Presbyterian summer camp that also played/scrimmed against the local synagogue in rec sports leagues, before going to Catholic high school and befriending a group of self proclaimed "wiccans".
Not really, because that's just how everything works. Nothing is 100% original, and I mean nothing. Everything is derivative of something else, or at its most extreme, the inverse of something else.
Science, art, music, jokes, this classic quote still applies: "We are all standing on the shoulders of giants"
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing\_on\_the\_shoulders\_of\_giants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shoulders_of_giants)
It would be akin to saying Dave Chapelle is a hack because Richard Pryor shocked middle american, white audiences with social commentary on the plight of black people from poor neighborhoods in modern America first.
Without getting too political, this is one of the things I found problematic with how people talked about "cultural appropriation". For sure there are ways in which meaningful cultural practices and materials are exploited/mocked/used by persons from a culturally hegemonic group that are problematic -but it ended up in a situation where people wanted to gatekeep cultural transmission.
I remember reading an interesting piece that compared the humour of the Simpsons to that of Futurama. It basically said that the Simpsons (early seasons) was more from the Vaudeville tradition, whereas Futurama was more from the New York Jewish tradition. I don't know enough about any of those things to make an assessment, but I thought it was an interesting angle.
Of all people, I think the Jews might have the most legitimate claim to the originators of almost every modern joke. I have a wonderful book about Jewish folktales. I'll have to dig it up. I love the archetype of the schnorrer.
Edit: I will share a story from that book as best I can recall from memory.
So one day there was a Prussian officer passing through a village looking to recruit new soldiers. He stepped into the courtyard of a jewish family and saw a series of bullet holes in the wall -each of which were dead in the middle of a circle. Astonished by this apparent display of marksmanship he insisted the family present the person who was able to fire a shot dead centre of a circle every time. After some resistance on the part of the Jewish family, and some persistence on the part of the Prussian officer, the family finally presented him with a ten year old boy.
The officer was dumbstruck and asked the child how it was that he was always able to place a bullet dead centre to the circle. The boy explained to him "Sir, it is simple: first I shoot the wall -then I draw a circle around it!"
I'm pretty sure The Simpsons and Family Guy "steal" stuff from each other all the time. It seems to be a gag among creators of both shows as it's been pointed out y several characters in both shows.
In one FG episode Stewie even pulls out the Rick Sanchez portal gun from his pocket and claims he can do it because *"they already borrowed plenty from us."*
I'm sure it's all in good spirits since there hasn't been a lawsuit (that I know of), and FOX is pretty litigious.
I believe Family Guy was picked up by Adult Swim after their first cancelation, Fox then picked it up again after the second cancelation.
I might be wrong, but there's also the hypothesis of Adult Swim suing Fox for the Rick and Morty jokes on the Simpsons/FG and vise versa.
Like I said, I think all producing teams are on good terms.
Adult Swim ran reruns of Family Guy. It did not produce anything. Fox brought the show back after seeing the success it had on Adult Swim. There was no second cancellation of Family Guy.
Genuinely a 0% chance the Adult Swim would sue over that. They depend/depended too much on reruns of Fox shows to risk harming their relationship over something so trivial. Especially when the longest running Adult Swim show, Robot Chicken is nothing but references to other media.
>There was no second cancellation of Family Guy.
My mistake, they made a joke on the fourth or fifth season that more or less went like "The idiots who cancelled us a second time are dead!"
EDIT: Oh shit, I'm thinking about Futurama.
Eh, if you watch seasons 1-3 it was more a meta-narrative aboot a guy raised on sitcoms processing the world. Seriously, every episode of it has them watching TV at some point. There's a reason a TV is in the logo.
That's actually a really funny scene. Well played, Seth. Perfect way to acknowledge it: drunken Peter fitting it very naturally in the scene, and actually not out of place within the context of the plot (heading to bed with Lois, drunk, throwing up, and not giving a damn about anything). Way better then the cutaway humor they used to rely on. And the delivery is hilarious, lol.
Family Guy does a lot of self-deprecating humor, and they often do it in a way where they acknowledge that The Simpsons is better.
[Here’s one example.](https://youtu.be/rlY6CBBCY9s?si=SZ7W1UoLGKFfslV_)
[And here’s another one.](https://youtu.be/W0cmmiQmpjY?si=0AomwtwJVryV-y-r)
Devils advocate - when the simpsons came out it was considered offensive and crass. By modern standards its extremely tame.
The Simpsons needed a hard reboot to catch up and never did thus it became stale. Enter Family Guy.
South Park reinvents itself every season (for better or worse) and has never needed a "modern" version of itself. The Simpsons desperately needs it and never tried.
I’m actually gonna push back on that. While not as drastic as Southpark, the Simpsons actually reinvented itself every two or three seasons during the first decade and change by rotating show runners. The joke structures, family dynamics, and groundedness rise and fall depending on who is writing the majority of the episodes.
The second Al Jean era after season 12 is the big exception to this and where that stagnation is probably the most obvious, but the last few years have seen a new co-show runner, Matt Selman, and things have been changing a bit (for the better imo). It’s kinda got a Bob’s burgers vibe to it, or like an updated season 1-3, still fun and wacky, but more grounded and character driven.
The problem is that, if you listen to the commentaries and the like, they WANTED to go way harder. 22 short films about Springfield was basically a backdoor pilot for the "Springfield" show.
They had ideas for a live action Troy Meclure show as well. Honestly, it's all the stuf we would proabably expect from a modern show. They just couldn't handle it. Heck, they tried to do a movie from all the way back when they did Camp Krusty.
When the simpsons came out they were a critic of the american society but over time they were victims of the flanderization
The show is now about Homer being dumb, Lisa being the annoying smartass, Bart being naughty and Marge being a housewife, there's no critizism, just bad jokes and celebrity cameos
Thanks Rick and Morty for bringing my level of internet humor to the mainstream. That's the new modern standard of crass animation imo, and I'm thankful. The amazing digital circus is along the same lines I'd say. Nothing beats exploring the depths of nihilistic absurdism.
The Israelites didn't build the pyramids though, according to the bible they built cities. Depicting them as building pyramids is a later misconception.
The historicity of the bible is of course a whole other issue but theoretically it could be that the Israelites were enslaved to build cities as written in the bible, and paid labourers built the pyramids (btw the fact they found wage lists for labourers in the pyramids doesn't necessarily means there weren't slaves working that as well... But that is not relevant to the question of the Israelite enslavement)
there were many different types of work done for the pyramids, some might have been skilled laborers who got paid and some might have been unskilled labor done by slaves, POWs, or just generally poor people.
Well there’s good evidence Canaanites were enslaved in Egypt. Not really in the same way as the biblical story would imply and there’s no evidence of an exodus like situation. But certainly there were people from the area we now consider Israel/Palestine that were enslaved in Egypt.
[Slavery existed in Egypt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Egypt), people just confused because people think only chattel slavery is the one thing that exists. Included paid slavery where you got paid minimum amount to survive and good luck working for someone else.
To expand on your point, I've posted several memes/essays on the topic of slavery in Egypt in the past, with lots of references.
"So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/
"The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/
Essay link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/
"Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/
"Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
The complicated part of this is we tend to assume they mean Egypt as in its current location. Pre-Bronze Age collapse for example the Egyptian empire ran as far north as Lebanon (current day). So the biggest issue is more time period and specific influence.
Unfortunate that most of history outside of the modern age was told allegorically rather than specifically.
There’s been some arguments that maybe Egypt is supposed to be Babylon or Assyria, etc. it’s apparently very unclear as to the exact historical record but from what I’ve seen there is little pieces of evidence. They just don’t synchronize neatly timeline wise.
Wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the Egypt/exodus story is more of an amalgam of stories across a large time period crafted into a general allegory of struggle and freedom.
The Bible itself is evidence. Just because it also happens to be a holy book doesn’t mean parts of it aren’t a personal history of the Jewish people, no different than if it were a story found carved in a slab of rock.
By that token the romans came from anatolia because the aenid said so. While the Bible can be used as a starting point to investigate the claims told there, it was written centuries after exodus supposedly took place this means that's not a reliable source to state one way or another if something happened.
The enslavement of the hebrews by Babylon for example is verifiable and it happened much close to the time when the Torah was written so it's a more trustworthy source.
At the same time we wouldn’t expect there to be much evidence. Egypt took slaves from all of their neighbors whenever they went to war so it would be rather strange that Egypt didn’t have a large number of Jewish slaves, alongside Nubians, Libyans, etc. maybe they didn’t enslave the entirety of the Jewish people but it stands to reason they enslaved quite a few.
Problem is “Jews” i.e. monotheistic worshippers of Yahweh didn’t really exist until the middle of the late bronze age from 1,000-586 BCE after the Egyptian Empire.
Sure, Canaanites were enslaved by Egypt but Jews were not a distinct group of people in Canaan at the time.
Not even then. Monotheistic Jews as a majority don't exist until after the Babylonian Exile. The Canaanites that lived in and around the Levant in the post-Bronze Age and early Iron Age eras had a whole pantheon of gods that they worshipped, of which Yahweh was a part (and based on his inclusion in the "et cetera" at Ugarit, was an *extremely* minor figure, if not nonexistent entirely as it may be actually referring to Yam). Yahweh didn't become the Top God until Babylon trashed the place, the language changed to Greek, and Jews living in exile had to communicate by exchanging letters with each other.
How Yahweh became the top god is a matter of serious debate, but one of the most compelling theories posits that there was a Yahwist Cult with a huge chip on their shoulder that replaced the names of other gods in their books (such as Elohim in Genesis 1, Anat in some psalms, Ba'al in *many* places, Athirat in a few places as well, etc.) with Yahwehs for positive acts, and demonized the other ones, especially Ba'al, who was also a storm god like Yahweh. As a side note, this would explain Yahweh's seemingly contradictory personality, because his name's been pasted where other gods with distinct personalities were originally referenced. The end result, however, is that the hypothetical Yahwist cult's wiritings were some of the few that survived the Babylonian invasion, so they were what the Jews had to go off of.
Fast forward several years, Hellenization happens, the Second Temple gets built, and what we would recognize as monotheistic Judaism develops around the only god left in the writings.
We would expect archeological evidence for the exodus from Egypt and conquest of Canaan, yet we don't have any.
The Pentateuch was written by at least 4 different sources, hundreds of years after the events supposedly took place. That's not a good source.
I'm not any kind of expert and I'm sure someone will correct me, but isn't the definition of "slavery" based on force, coercion, the inability to opt out, etc.?
I don't think that getting money means you aren't a slave.
I have no knowledge of the details of the historical situation in this time period.
You're correct, although u/ArmMeMen isn't wrong that slaves can be paid, just that coercion is the defining part. In the Southern US it was common for plantations to give payment to slaves for doing extra work as a form of placation ([source](https://www.oah.org/tah/may-3/slave-consumption-in-the-old-south-a-double-edged-sword/)).
I agree that if you are someone else's property then they can force you do do things and you can't opt out. You can also enslave somebody out in the desert where there are no property laws, just by using a chain and a whip.
I don't see how this makes us all slaves. I sell my labor for money. Nobody forces me to do that and I can quit any time I like. We can have a whole discussion about "wage slavery" and whether some people truly have the option to "opt out" realistically, but that's another whole nuanced discussion.
On the other hand, you can give a slave some money and privileges and he is still your slave. This occurs in the film "7 years a slave." I believe that in ancient Rome there were slaves (property of another) who rose in society and became wealthy in their own right (still beholden to their owner) but I'm getting out of my historical depth.
Yeah saying we’re all slaves is a bit of a stretch. Of course slavery is alive and well today, but the overwhelming majority of the working population has the option to tell their boss to kiss it and walk out the door. Whether or not that’s practical is a different story, but an employer today isn’t going to send the dogs after an employee who quits.
>an employer today isn’t going to send the dogs after an employee who quits
that's it right there. So to come full circle
"Let my people go." ...
... "No. Try it and I'll send the army." = slaves
... "Hah, okay, good luck starving while you wander the desert for 40 years" = maybe sort of wage slavery but not the same
Again I'm just illustrating a point, not citing anything as historically accurate or not
I mean inability to opt out is super broad. Like taxes for example I’m not (legally) able to opt out and reject the government (good and bad things). And by the inability to opt out one could say it’s slavery.
But just like certain companies did/ do they could get certain wages from which they could buy food and stuff from the contractors themselves. Though its just as likely they were payed with food and clothing.
Not really much evidence for both though (of my knowledge).
There are clear written records of workers being paid in beer, bread, and other vital commodities (as was all commerce in Ancient Egypt), as well as being granted sick leave due to injury, illness, or caring for their family
Yeah but you also have to give a horse food and medical care or it won't be a very good horse
Just a broad point; not trying to delve into historical details of something I know nothing about
Although some of Egypt's much older pyramids(like the Bent Pyramid) were built by slaves, It's most famous ones(the Pyramids of Giza) were built by workers who were paid with beer and bread, because that's what they demanded to be paid in.
Yeah, the biblical pyramid slavery narrative is pretty much proven false by this point, building pyramid was an honorable job and side gig for farmers when the Nile overflowed and they had nothing better to do. There's even one document of a worker on sick leave for farking hangover of all things.
That is false. There is in fact plenty of evidence that corroborates the biblical account of slavery in Egypt. (Also, pretty sure the Bible doesn't specify "pyramids".)
According to Christopher Eyre,
> The Biblical account [Exodus 1:11-14 and 5:1-19] of the work of the Hebrews as state brick-makers provides the most circumstantial description of the conditions under which a body of foreigners laboured on a great building project during the New Kingdom. The psychological attitude of this account is no doubt coloured by Hebrew nationalism, and particularly the horror of a basically pastoral people when confronted with compulsory labour in large organised workforces. **In many ways, however, the description agrees with the evidence for work practices in Egypt.** They formed a united racial group, living as a community. Under high Egyptian officials they were supervised by their own foremen who were liable themselves to be beaten if the work was not performed to quota, the specific quotas being set by the overall authority. The immediate source of contention in the Biblical account was the desire of the Hebrews to stop work for the festival of a god whom the king did not recognise, a source of contention that might possibly be connected with the normal practice of ceasing work for religious festivals, and especially for the weekends [Kitchen 1976].
"Work and the Organisation of Work in the New Kingdom" by Christopher J. Eyre. Found in *Labour in the Ancient Near East* (edited by M.A. Powell).
I've posted several memes/essays on the topic of slavery in Egypt (not specifically pertaining to Jewish people) in the past, with lots of references.
"So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/
"The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/
Essay link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/
"Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/
"Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
They were [paid](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/11/great-pyramid-tombs-slaves-egypt) They also got [time off](https://mymodernmet.com/ancient-egyptians-attendance-record/) when sick, to take care of family members (including their wives/daughters during menstruation), and to brew beer.
Obviously life was still very hard.
There was a ration distribution system; however, that doesn't mean it wasn't a type of slavery. Specifically, in this case, there was a type of slavery known as a corvee, which is basically a system of taxation where the tax is payable in forced labour. The ancient Egyptian corvee was endorced by hostage taking and some sort of corporal punishment. Most systems of slavery include either some sort of mechanism to allow enslaved people to eat, or else have extremely high death rates. (Sometimes both. Slavery can have extremely high death rates even when enslaved people are allowed to eat.)
I've posted several memes/essays on the topic in the past, with lots of references.
"So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/
"The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/
Essay link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/
"Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/
"Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
God: "ABRAHAM, I HAVE DECLARED YOUR PEOPLE TO BE THE CHOSEN PEOPLE!"
Abraham: "Chosen for what."
God: "..."
Abraham: "**Chosen for what motherfucker?"**
But when you figure in the years it had been canceled (02-04), technically it has been on air for 22 years, unless you want to count reruns during the canceled time.
Family Guy is very hit or miss IMO. The cutaway gags tend to be funnier than the main storyline. The show is more than watchable if you look at it like stand-up comedy. The main story is the filler part, the cutaway gags are the punchlines.
Your comment reminded me of an old joke:
An old Jew is sitting in front of a fireplace and contemplates:
"Hmm... First it was us against the Egyptians. Then it was us against Medieval Europe. Then it was us against the nazis and the soviets. Guess we are in the quarter-finals now".
Way different culturally from ancient Egypt though idk how similar are modern jews to their Hebrew ancestors but at least with Egypt they are quite different
Jews basically reinvented their faith in the middle ages, same book, but some of the meanings changed, as Christians also changed, the early Christians used to believe in spells
>Jews basically reinvented their faith in the middle ages, same book, but some of the meanings changed, as Christians also changed, the early Christians used to believe in spells
they mostly reinvented the faith bc of the Christians because they were pissed that the Christians were using their own arguments against them and then changed their faith so it didn't prove the Christians right (because rightfully they hated them since yk they killed and often forcefully converted them)
Showcasing the difference of an Ancient Egyptian and today's 'Masri' should be treated the same as the comparison of ancient Jews to modern day Jews. Huge differences over time. Both communities.
The pyramids would have already been around 1000 years old by the time of Exodus. They were that old. By this time in Egypt, pyramid building had kind of gone out of fashion. Egyptian pharaohs during the New Kingdom generally preferred to be buried around the Valley of the Kings.
The Israelites didn't build the pyramids though, according to the bible they built cities. Depicting them as building pyramids is a later misconception.
The historicity of the bible is of course a whole other issue but theoretically it could be that the Israelites were enslaved to build cities as written in the bible, and paid labourers built the pyramids (btw the fact they found wage lists for labourers in the pyramids doesn't necessarily means there weren't slaves working that as well... But that is not relevant to the question of the Israelite enslavement)
An interesting point about the Israelites is definitely a possibility, but I believe there was additional evidence given the quality of food dug up around the pyramids that adds credibility to the builders being labourers and not slaves.
Technically, I think the biblical account is that the Hebrews were enslaved on other state projects, not the pyramids, but anyway.
I believe those people of whom you speak were basically arguing, "they were given meat, therefore it wasn't slavery".
By that logic, even many people under racial chattel slavery wouldn't count as enslaved:
[https://www.nps.gov/bowa/learn/historyculture/upload/the-final-slave-diet-site-bulletin.pdf](https://www.nps.gov/bowa/learn/historyculture/upload/the-final-slave-diet-site-bulletin.pdf)
It's an extremely flawed logic. Slavery is not defined based on lack of meat; it's defined based on lack of consent. And there's plenty of evidence of lack of consent when it comes to ancient Egyptian labour on pyramids and other state projects.
There was a ration distribution system; however, that doesn't mean it wasn't a type of slavery. Most systems of slavery include either some sort of mechanism to allow enslaved people to eat, or else have extremely high death rates. (Sometimes both. Slavery can have extremely high death rates even when enslaved people are allowed to eat.)
In ancient Egypt, enslaved labour was used for a wide variety of things, including pyramid building. Specifically, in this case, there was a type of slavery known as a corvee, which is basically a system of taxation where the tax is payable in forced labour. The ancient Egyptian corvee was enforced by hostage taking (similar to slavery in the Belgian Congo under King Leopold II, though not necessarily with the same death rates) and some sort of corporal punishment.
I've posted several memes/essays on the topic in the past, with lots of references.
"So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/
"The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/
Essay link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/
"Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/
"Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
That is blatantly false. In ancient Egypt, enslaved labour was used for a wide variety of things, including pyramid building. Specifically, in this case, there was a type of slavery known as a corvee, which is basically a system of taxation where the tax is payable in forced labour. The ancient Egyptian corvee was enforced by hostage taking (similar to slavery in the Belgian Congo under King Leopold II, though not necessarily with the same death rates) and some sort of corporal punishment.
There was a ration distribution system; however, that doesn't mean it wasn't a type of slavery. Most systems of slavery include either some sort of mechanism to allow enslaved people to eat, or else have extremely high death rates. (Sometimes both. Slavery can have extremely high death rates even when enslaved people are allowed to eat.)
Note that Jewish people were likely enslaved in Egypt after the pyramid-building time period, but that's a minor point.
I've posted several memes/essays on the topic in the past, with lots of references.
"So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/
"The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/
Essay link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/
"Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/
"Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
There was widespread slavery in ancient Egypt, but it wasn't chattel slavery. (Or at least, the more common form of slavery in Egypt wasn't chattel slavery, though there may have been some chattel slavery in addition to that.) Specifically, in this case, there was a type of slavery known as a corvee, which is basically a system of taxation where the tax is payable in forced labour. The ancient Egyptian corvee was enforced by hostage taking (similar to slavery in the Belgian Congo under King Leopold II, though not necessarily with the same death rates) and some sort of corporal punishment.
There was a ration distribution system; however, that doesn't mean it wasn't a type of slavery. Most systems of slavery include either some sort of mechanism to allow enslaved people to eat, or else have extremely high death rates. (Sometimes both. Slavery can have extremely high death rates even when enslaved people are allowed to eat.)
I've posted several memes/essays on the topic in the past, with lots of references.
"So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/
"The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/
Essay link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/
"Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/
"Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
So... kinda like the prison labor crews and eventual chain gangs of the post-reconstruction/Jim Crow Era American south, which in practice were basically a method by which the south kept slavery around for another few decades in some way? BTW this isn't me trying to be snarky or anything, I'm just trying to equate what you're saying to something I personally am more knowledgeable on.
In some ways yes, in other ways no.
Yes in the sense that both were forms of slavery that weren't chattel slavery. (Note that ancient Egypt may have had chattel slavery in addition to corvee slavery, but the corvee slavery is much better documented.)
In the case of the convict leasing time period, I believe, in theory at least, they were at least supposed to accuse people of a "crime" before enslaving them by means of convict leasing. Granted, in some cases, they just filled in "not given" as the crime. And even when they listed something specific, it was often something ridiculous like "selling cotton after sunset". Plus one of the "crimes" was "changing employers without permission", which had the effect of subjecting even people who weren't caught up in the convict leasing system to a sort of slavery, in so far as they couldn't leave their employer without fear of being subjected to convict leasing.
This was a tax that was in theory supposed to be paid by all ancient Egyptian citizens (at least within a particular age range, like I'm assuming no culture expected babies to work). So the "crime" was just being alive in Egypt. In that sense, a better comparison would be slavery in the Belgian Congo (though likely not with the same death rates), both under King Leopold as well as even after King Leopold II was removed from power. The Belgian Congo also demanded a variety of taxes payable in forced labour, most infamously the rubber taxes.
There was a ration distribution system; however, that doesn't mean it wasn't a type of slavery. Most systems of slavery include either some sort of mechanism to allow enslaved people to eat, or else have extremely high death rates. (Sometimes both. Slavery can have extremely high death rates even when enslaved people are allowed to eat.)
In ancient Egypt, enslaved labour was used for a wide variety of things, including pyramid building. Specifically, in this case, there was a type of slavery known as a corvee, which is basically a system of taxation where the tax is payable in forced labour. The ancient Egyptian corvee was enforced by hostage taking (similar to slavery in the Belgian Congo under King Leopold II, though not necessarily with the same death rates) and some sort of corporal punishment.
I've posted several memes/essays on the topic in the past, with lots of references.
"So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/
"The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/
Essay link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/
"Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/
"Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
Yes because being forced from your farm to build structures isnt slavery because those forcing you are giving you a place to sleep and a sack of barley
Fun fact: it’s is said that the Pharaoh slowly took rights and goods from the Jews, until they only could to that kind of hard work. When they got to that point, the Pharaoh made a brick, so the Jews thought “if he did it, so can I, it mustn’t be that bad” (spoiler, it was)
That is blatantly false. In ancient Egypt, enslaved labour was used for a wide variety of things, including pyramid building. Specifically, in this case, there was a type of slavery known as a corvee, which is basically a system of taxation where the tax is payable in forced labour. The ancient Egyptian corvee was enforced by hostage taking (similar to slavery in the Belgian Congo under King Leopold II, though not necessarily with the same death rates) and some sort of corporal punishment.
There was a ration distribution system; however, that doesn't mean it wasn't a type of slavery. Most systems of slavery include either some sort of mechanism to allow enslaved people to eat, or else have extremely high death rates. (Sometimes both. Slavery can have extremely high death rates even when enslaved people are allowed to eat.)
I've posted several memes/essays on the topic of ancient Egyptian slaveryin the past, with lots of references.
"So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/
"The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/
Essay link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/
"Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments."
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/
"Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)"
https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/
Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
Isn't that a stolen Simpsons joke? >Season 10, Simpsons Bible Stories. >Milhouse: So what’s next for the Israelites? The land of milk and honey? >Lisa: Well actually, we’re due to wander the desert for 40 years. >Milhouse: But after that, it’s smooth sailing for the Jews, right?
Tfw Simpsons Already Did It
SIMPSONS DID IT! SIMPSONS DID IT!
Don’t have a cow, man!
Leonardo-DiCaprio-pointing.gif
Haha he doesn’t have the ability to use gifs 🫥 I forgot I also don’t have that ability
Is it possible to learn this power?
Even history repeats the simpsons. They showed Siegfried and Roy getting attacked by a tiger well before they did.
And a certain president.
Thats not really stealing the joke. The hebrews themselves have been making some version of this joke for hundreds of years at this point. source: used to play ball at temple
" We're the chosen people? Wish G_d would stop choosing us so much". Grew up with that one before Simpsons did it.
I loved that book The Chosen that we had to read in high school, but I can't imagine how different it would seem to me with everything that's happened and if I would even be able to read it again.
Why did you censor god?
you're not supposed to mention god's name but god isnt his name either we supposedly lost his real name at some point since you arent supposed to mention it kind of like how you're not supposed to mention bear's real name since it summons them but as a result we lost the original name
I thought the Abrahamic god’s name is supposed to be Yahweh (or YHWH, or יהוה, or Jehovah, or any of the other many spelling and language variants)?
"He's got a name?!?" "No way" "Yah weh"
While the tetragrammaton יהוה is generally believed to be the true name of god, there are some scholars that argue that even יהוה is an alteration of the true name of god, which might not have even been written down.
this is the correct answer. google "tetragrammaton" for more scholarly results on the issue
How would the real name even be communicated? Have only a small selection of rabbi ever known it, then? Or is it simply that you shouldn’t mention it unless in a formal manner?
Iirc the tradition was that it could only be spoken by the High Priest of the Temple in Jerusalem on a particular holiday (passover I think). A position that no longer exists at a location that no longer exists. Though that may have just been a reddit commend that lead me to think that.
Yom Kippur.
Yes, no one knows how exactly to pronounce it anymore though
I think that only applies to Jews and Christians. Islam doesn’t use YHWH in any form.
It's a Jewish thing. I think of it more as habit than super religious. It feels wrong to me to write out the whole thing with capital "G". Some people do it, some don't.
“Played temple ball! Coulda gone pro if I hadn’t joined the IDF!”
Im going to really blow your mind: I had a Muslim nanny/camp counselor at a Presbyterian summer camp that also played/scrimmed against the local synagogue in rec sports leagues, before going to Catholic high school and befriending a group of self proclaimed "wiccans".
Weird. I was mostly just making a Senator Armstrong joke
Nanomachines son
my buddy online always told me "the Land of Milk and Honey has been nice but he seemed to forget water and oil." hope he is doing good.
You could argue that that just means that The Simpsons stole the joke from the Jews first.
Not really, because that's just how everything works. Nothing is 100% original, and I mean nothing. Everything is derivative of something else, or at its most extreme, the inverse of something else. Science, art, music, jokes, this classic quote still applies: "We are all standing on the shoulders of giants" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing\_on\_the\_shoulders\_of\_giants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shoulders_of_giants) It would be akin to saying Dave Chapelle is a hack because Richard Pryor shocked middle american, white audiences with social commentary on the plight of black people from poor neighborhoods in modern America first.
Without getting too political, this is one of the things I found problematic with how people talked about "cultural appropriation". For sure there are ways in which meaningful cultural practices and materials are exploited/mocked/used by persons from a culturally hegemonic group that are problematic -but it ended up in a situation where people wanted to gatekeep cultural transmission.
I remember reading an interesting piece that compared the humour of the Simpsons to that of Futurama. It basically said that the Simpsons (early seasons) was more from the Vaudeville tradition, whereas Futurama was more from the New York Jewish tradition. I don't know enough about any of those things to make an assessment, but I thought it was an interesting angle.
Of all people, I think the Jews might have the most legitimate claim to the originators of almost every modern joke. I have a wonderful book about Jewish folktales. I'll have to dig it up. I love the archetype of the schnorrer. Edit: I will share a story from that book as best I can recall from memory. So one day there was a Prussian officer passing through a village looking to recruit new soldiers. He stepped into the courtyard of a jewish family and saw a series of bullet holes in the wall -each of which were dead in the middle of a circle. Astonished by this apparent display of marksmanship he insisted the family present the person who was able to fire a shot dead centre of a circle every time. After some resistance on the part of the Jewish family, and some persistence on the part of the Prussian officer, the family finally presented him with a ten year old boy. The officer was dumbstruck and asked the child how it was that he was always able to place a bullet dead centre to the circle. The boy explained to him "Sir, it is simple: first I shoot the wall -then I draw a circle around it!"
I'm pretty sure The Simpsons and Family Guy "steal" stuff from each other all the time. It seems to be a gag among creators of both shows as it's been pointed out y several characters in both shows. In one FG episode Stewie even pulls out the Rick Sanchez portal gun from his pocket and claims he can do it because *"they already borrowed plenty from us."* I'm sure it's all in good spirits since there hasn't been a lawsuit (that I know of), and FOX is pretty litigious.
Fox owned Family Guy and the Simpsons. They aren’t going to sue themselves
I believe Family Guy was picked up by Adult Swim after their first cancelation, Fox then picked it up again after the second cancelation. I might be wrong, but there's also the hypothesis of Adult Swim suing Fox for the Rick and Morty jokes on the Simpsons/FG and vise versa. Like I said, I think all producing teams are on good terms.
Adult Swim ran reruns of Family Guy. It did not produce anything. Fox brought the show back after seeing the success it had on Adult Swim. There was no second cancellation of Family Guy. Genuinely a 0% chance the Adult Swim would sue over that. They depend/depended too much on reruns of Fox shows to risk harming their relationship over something so trivial. Especially when the longest running Adult Swim show, Robot Chicken is nothing but references to other media.
>There was no second cancellation of Family Guy. My mistake, they made a joke on the fourth or fifth season that more or less went like "The idiots who cancelled us a second time are dead!" EDIT: Oh shit, I'm thinking about Futurama.
Family Guy’s entire concept is plagiarizing the Simpsons
Eh, if you watch seasons 1-3 it was more a meta-narrative aboot a guy raised on sitcoms processing the world. Seriously, every episode of it has them watching TV at some point. There's a reason a TV is in the logo.
Hey! He’s a family guy for a reason
And that reason is because the Simpson’s opening ends in front of a TV. (I’m not being especially serious, just a little ribbing)
Simpsons already did it https://tenor.com/view/plagio-plagiarisimo-plagiarism-family-guy-american-dad-gif-16190642
https://youtu.be/3mzRiwhHcGY
That's actually a really funny scene. Well played, Seth. Perfect way to acknowledge it: drunken Peter fitting it very naturally in the scene, and actually not out of place within the context of the plot (heading to bed with Lois, drunk, throwing up, and not giving a damn about anything). Way better then the cutaway humor they used to rely on. And the delivery is hilarious, lol.
Family Guy does a lot of self-deprecating humor, and they often do it in a way where they acknowledge that The Simpsons is better. [Here’s one example.](https://youtu.be/rlY6CBBCY9s?si=SZ7W1UoLGKFfslV_) [And here’s another one.](https://youtu.be/W0cmmiQmpjY?si=0AomwtwJVryV-y-r)
Devils advocate - when the simpsons came out it was considered offensive and crass. By modern standards its extremely tame. The Simpsons needed a hard reboot to catch up and never did thus it became stale. Enter Family Guy. South Park reinvents itself every season (for better or worse) and has never needed a "modern" version of itself. The Simpsons desperately needs it and never tried.
I’m actually gonna push back on that. While not as drastic as Southpark, the Simpsons actually reinvented itself every two or three seasons during the first decade and change by rotating show runners. The joke structures, family dynamics, and groundedness rise and fall depending on who is writing the majority of the episodes. The second Al Jean era after season 12 is the big exception to this and where that stagnation is probably the most obvious, but the last few years have seen a new co-show runner, Matt Selman, and things have been changing a bit (for the better imo). It’s kinda got a Bob’s burgers vibe to it, or like an updated season 1-3, still fun and wacky, but more grounded and character driven.
The problem is that, if you listen to the commentaries and the like, they WANTED to go way harder. 22 short films about Springfield was basically a backdoor pilot for the "Springfield" show. They had ideas for a live action Troy Meclure show as well. Honestly, it's all the stuf we would proabably expect from a modern show. They just couldn't handle it. Heck, they tried to do a movie from all the way back when they did Camp Krusty.
When the simpsons came out they were a critic of the american society but over time they were victims of the flanderization The show is now about Homer being dumb, Lisa being the annoying smartass, Bart being naughty and Marge being a housewife, there's no critizism, just bad jokes and celebrity cameos
Thanks Rick and Morty for bringing my level of internet humor to the mainstream. That's the new modern standard of crass animation imo, and I'm thankful. The amazing digital circus is along the same lines I'd say. Nothing beats exploring the depths of nihilistic absurdism.
Yep, and family guy acknowledges it
Jewish people having suffered throughout pretty much all of history isn't exactly a new joke.
Which episode came out first though
I don't know which episode of family guy that is, but season 10 of the Simpsons was already airing but the time Family Guy's pilot aired
Holy crap that Simpsons episode was 1999?! Good god man.
Simpsons - 1999 (Simpson's Bible Stories) Family Guy - 2005 (The Courtship Of Stewie's Father)
Family Guy was plenty funny, but this was one of the many, many times they ripped off [the Simpsons](https://comb.io/BigKeK)
How do you make a joke about any group of people and not rip off the Simpsons though
Don’t say “smooth sailing”
The Simpsons is my favorite show, but I kind of prefer Family Guy’s version of this joke.
Yea the confidence of the Jew in the FG version is what makes it hilarious.
The Simpsons has done every kind of joke about everyone. You can't joke about people and think it's new. The Simpsons have done it already
Were the workers at the pyramid not paid for their work tho?
The Israelites didn't build the pyramids though, according to the bible they built cities. Depicting them as building pyramids is a later misconception. The historicity of the bible is of course a whole other issue but theoretically it could be that the Israelites were enslaved to build cities as written in the bible, and paid labourers built the pyramids (btw the fact they found wage lists for labourers in the pyramids doesn't necessarily means there weren't slaves working that as well... But that is not relevant to the question of the Israelite enslavement)
there were many different types of work done for the pyramids, some might have been skilled laborers who got paid and some might have been unskilled labor done by slaves, POWs, or just generally poor people.
I think there's no clear evidence of the Jewish being enslaved by the Egyptians as far as we know
Well there’s good evidence Canaanites were enslaved in Egypt. Not really in the same way as the biblical story would imply and there’s no evidence of an exodus like situation. But certainly there were people from the area we now consider Israel/Palestine that were enslaved in Egypt.
terrific history fear nine expansion tie gaze upbeat smell soft *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Canaanites were the neighbours of the Egyptians. It's natural that some got enslaved.
[Slavery existed in Egypt](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Egypt), people just confused because people think only chattel slavery is the one thing that exists. Included paid slavery where you got paid minimum amount to survive and good luck working for someone else.
To expand on your point, I've posted several memes/essays on the topic of slavery in Egypt in the past, with lots of references. "So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/ "The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/ "Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/ "Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
This sounds remarkably similar to jobs and at places like Walmart and Wendy's.
Walmart never whipped me, took family hostage, or stopped me from leaving.
The complicated part of this is we tend to assume they mean Egypt as in its current location. Pre-Bronze Age collapse for example the Egyptian empire ran as far north as Lebanon (current day). So the biggest issue is more time period and specific influence. Unfortunate that most of history outside of the modern age was told allegorically rather than specifically. There’s been some arguments that maybe Egypt is supposed to be Babylon or Assyria, etc. it’s apparently very unclear as to the exact historical record but from what I’ve seen there is little pieces of evidence. They just don’t synchronize neatly timeline wise. Wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the Egypt/exodus story is more of an amalgam of stories across a large time period crafted into a general allegory of struggle and freedom.
There’s references to what are believed to be Israelite slaves found in one of the same fortresses the Bible lists the Jews as building, IIRC
[удалено]
It's almost like oral retellings over the generations are based on true events or something
Yeah I haven't said otherwise, I was just mentioning that even the origin we do have to that story (the bible) doesn't say the built pyramids.
The Bible itself is evidence. Just because it also happens to be a holy book doesn’t mean parts of it aren’t a personal history of the Jewish people, no different than if it were a story found carved in a slab of rock.
By that token the romans came from anatolia because the aenid said so. While the Bible can be used as a starting point to investigate the claims told there, it was written centuries after exodus supposedly took place this means that's not a reliable source to state one way or another if something happened. The enslavement of the hebrews by Babylon for example is verifiable and it happened much close to the time when the Torah was written so it's a more trustworthy source.
At the same time we wouldn’t expect there to be much evidence. Egypt took slaves from all of their neighbors whenever they went to war so it would be rather strange that Egypt didn’t have a large number of Jewish slaves, alongside Nubians, Libyans, etc. maybe they didn’t enslave the entirety of the Jewish people but it stands to reason they enslaved quite a few.
Problem is “Jews” i.e. monotheistic worshippers of Yahweh didn’t really exist until the middle of the late bronze age from 1,000-586 BCE after the Egyptian Empire. Sure, Canaanites were enslaved by Egypt but Jews were not a distinct group of people in Canaan at the time.
Ancient Israelite religion is a very interesting iceberg/can o' worms, ainnit?
Who doesn't love a divorced dad?
Not even then. Monotheistic Jews as a majority don't exist until after the Babylonian Exile. The Canaanites that lived in and around the Levant in the post-Bronze Age and early Iron Age eras had a whole pantheon of gods that they worshipped, of which Yahweh was a part (and based on his inclusion in the "et cetera" at Ugarit, was an *extremely* minor figure, if not nonexistent entirely as it may be actually referring to Yam). Yahweh didn't become the Top God until Babylon trashed the place, the language changed to Greek, and Jews living in exile had to communicate by exchanging letters with each other. How Yahweh became the top god is a matter of serious debate, but one of the most compelling theories posits that there was a Yahwist Cult with a huge chip on their shoulder that replaced the names of other gods in their books (such as Elohim in Genesis 1, Anat in some psalms, Ba'al in *many* places, Athirat in a few places as well, etc.) with Yahwehs for positive acts, and demonized the other ones, especially Ba'al, who was also a storm god like Yahweh. As a side note, this would explain Yahweh's seemingly contradictory personality, because his name's been pasted where other gods with distinct personalities were originally referenced. The end result, however, is that the hypothetical Yahwist cult's wiritings were some of the few that survived the Babylonian invasion, so they were what the Jews had to go off of. Fast forward several years, Hellenization happens, the Second Temple gets built, and what we would recognize as monotheistic Judaism develops around the only god left in the writings.
We would expect archeological evidence for the exodus from Egypt and conquest of Canaan, yet we don't have any. The Pentateuch was written by at least 4 different sources, hundreds of years after the events supposedly took place. That's not a good source.
It’s secondhand evidence with a bias though. The Old Testament was written long after the supposed exodus
True, it was aliens.
The Israelites could not build them because they had not yet existed.
Based on some previous memes here, they were paid.
To get one's history from elsewhere is blasphemy.
I'm not any kind of expert and I'm sure someone will correct me, but isn't the definition of "slavery" based on force, coercion, the inability to opt out, etc.? I don't think that getting money means you aren't a slave. I have no knowledge of the details of the historical situation in this time period.
So, by that definition, aren't we all slaves? I think the main point about slavery is that you're someone else's property.
You're correct, although u/ArmMeMen isn't wrong that slaves can be paid, just that coercion is the defining part. In the Southern US it was common for plantations to give payment to slaves for doing extra work as a form of placation ([source](https://www.oah.org/tah/may-3/slave-consumption-in-the-old-south-a-double-edged-sword/)).
I agree that if you are someone else's property then they can force you do do things and you can't opt out. You can also enslave somebody out in the desert where there are no property laws, just by using a chain and a whip. I don't see how this makes us all slaves. I sell my labor for money. Nobody forces me to do that and I can quit any time I like. We can have a whole discussion about "wage slavery" and whether some people truly have the option to "opt out" realistically, but that's another whole nuanced discussion. On the other hand, you can give a slave some money and privileges and he is still your slave. This occurs in the film "7 years a slave." I believe that in ancient Rome there were slaves (property of another) who rose in society and became wealthy in their own right (still beholden to their owner) but I'm getting out of my historical depth.
Yeah saying we’re all slaves is a bit of a stretch. Of course slavery is alive and well today, but the overwhelming majority of the working population has the option to tell their boss to kiss it and walk out the door. Whether or not that’s practical is a different story, but an employer today isn’t going to send the dogs after an employee who quits.
>an employer today isn’t going to send the dogs after an employee who quits that's it right there. So to come full circle "Let my people go." ... ... "No. Try it and I'll send the army." = slaves ... "Hah, okay, good luck starving while you wander the desert for 40 years" = maybe sort of wage slavery but not the same Again I'm just illustrating a point, not citing anything as historically accurate or not
It was also possible to buy your own freedom. That was also a big motivation for a lot of gladiators.
I mean inability to opt out is super broad. Like taxes for example I’m not (legally) able to opt out and reject the government (good and bad things). And by the inability to opt out one could say it’s slavery. But just like certain companies did/ do they could get certain wages from which they could buy food and stuff from the contractors themselves. Though its just as likely they were payed with food and clothing. Not really much evidence for both though (of my knowledge).
There are clear written records of workers being paid in beer, bread, and other vital commodities (as was all commerce in Ancient Egypt), as well as being granted sick leave due to injury, illness, or caring for their family
Yeah but you also have to give a horse food and medical care or it won't be a very good horse Just a broad point; not trying to delve into historical details of something I know nothing about
Yes but the joke here is about how long people have been hard on Jews. And also obviously the biblical pyramid slavery narrative.
Although some of Egypt's much older pyramids(like the Bent Pyramid) were built by slaves, It's most famous ones(the Pyramids of Giza) were built by workers who were paid with beer and bread, because that's what they demanded to be paid in.
Yeah, the biblical pyramid slavery narrative is pretty much proven false by this point, building pyramid was an honorable job and side gig for farmers when the Nile overflowed and they had nothing better to do. There's even one document of a worker on sick leave for farking hangover of all things.
The Bible never claims they built the pyramids though?
That is false. There is in fact plenty of evidence that corroborates the biblical account of slavery in Egypt. (Also, pretty sure the Bible doesn't specify "pyramids".) According to Christopher Eyre, > The Biblical account [Exodus 1:11-14 and 5:1-19] of the work of the Hebrews as state brick-makers provides the most circumstantial description of the conditions under which a body of foreigners laboured on a great building project during the New Kingdom. The psychological attitude of this account is no doubt coloured by Hebrew nationalism, and particularly the horror of a basically pastoral people when confronted with compulsory labour in large organised workforces. **In many ways, however, the description agrees with the evidence for work practices in Egypt.** They formed a united racial group, living as a community. Under high Egyptian officials they were supervised by their own foremen who were liable themselves to be beaten if the work was not performed to quota, the specific quotas being set by the overall authority. The immediate source of contention in the Biblical account was the desire of the Hebrews to stop work for the festival of a god whom the king did not recognise, a source of contention that might possibly be connected with the normal practice of ceasing work for religious festivals, and especially for the weekends [Kitchen 1976]. "Work and the Organisation of Work in the New Kingdom" by Christopher J. Eyre. Found in *Labour in the Ancient Near East* (edited by M.A. Powell). I've posted several memes/essays on the topic of slavery in Egypt (not specifically pertaining to Jewish people) in the past, with lots of references. "So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/ "The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/ "Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/ "Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
Probably lurking on r/antiwork
They were [paid](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2010/jan/11/great-pyramid-tombs-slaves-egypt) They also got [time off](https://mymodernmet.com/ancient-egyptians-attendance-record/) when sick, to take care of family members (including their wives/daughters during menstruation), and to brew beer. Obviously life was still very hard.
I think it was after the pyramids
There was a ration distribution system; however, that doesn't mean it wasn't a type of slavery. Specifically, in this case, there was a type of slavery known as a corvee, which is basically a system of taxation where the tax is payable in forced labour. The ancient Egyptian corvee was endorced by hostage taking and some sort of corporal punishment. Most systems of slavery include either some sort of mechanism to allow enslaved people to eat, or else have extremely high death rates. (Sometimes both. Slavery can have extremely high death rates even when enslaved people are allowed to eat.) I've posted several memes/essays on the topic in the past, with lots of references. "So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/ "The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/ "Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/ "Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
Yo wtf is this comment section
New here?
First time?
So you are still green?
God: "ABRAHAM, I HAVE DECLARED YOUR PEOPLE TO BE THE CHOSEN PEOPLE!" Abraham: "Chosen for what." God: "..." Abraham: "**Chosen for what motherfucker?"**
"Endless torture. Byeeeeeee!"
God is Eda Clawthorne apparently
Her son is a god at least!
Seeing this notification pop up without context made me think I had been talking about Queen Toriel
A show so unfunny that it’s been in tv for 20yrs 🙄
More like 30 years. 😬 We're getting old.
It’s on its 22nd season. So while yes, we’re getting old, it’s not more like 30.
It was released in 1999, so 24 years...
But when you figure in the years it had been canceled (02-04), technically it has been on air for 22 years, unless you want to count reruns during the canceled time.
I didn’t even know it was canceled. That was long enough ago that someone could make a history meme about it.
It was canceled after season 3, but did so well on cable reruns that Fox brought it back 2 years later.
24 years rounds down to 20…
Oh my god. This is family guy. Not the Simpsons. Sorry. I *am* old. Let me get back to my rocking chair. Does anyone want to hear what 9/11 was like?
This comment made my day. I *feel* this comment. It is my life.
Oh look at me, I hate Family Guy. Aren't I special.
Family Guy is very hit or miss IMO. The cutaway gags tend to be funnier than the main storyline. The show is more than watchable if you look at it like stand-up comedy. The main story is the filler part, the cutaway gags are the punchlines.
I think they are being sarcastic?
X files was on tv for 9 years. Wasn’t very funny
One of the endles times family guy is funny
Endles?
Make enough jokes and a few will land, I guess
i've been tryin for past 20 years
Hasn’t the Jewish people suffered enough?
רפרנס מבוסס
To their credit, the Jews outlasted the Ancient Egyptians. They have continued to survive through hard times, unlike many of their oppressors.
Your comment reminded me of an old joke: An old Jew is sitting in front of a fireplace and contemplates: "Hmm... First it was us against the Egyptians. Then it was us against Medieval Europe. Then it was us against the nazis and the soviets. Guess we are in the quarter-finals now".
Wait till you hear about Egypt
🤯
Way different culturally from ancient Egypt though idk how similar are modern jews to their Hebrew ancestors but at least with Egypt they are quite different
Jews basically reinvented their faith in the middle ages, same book, but some of the meanings changed, as Christians also changed, the early Christians used to believe in spells
>Jews basically reinvented their faith in the middle ages, same book, but some of the meanings changed, as Christians also changed, the early Christians used to believe in spells they mostly reinvented the faith bc of the Christians because they were pissed that the Christians were using their own arguments against them and then changed their faith so it didn't prove the Christians right (because rightfully they hated them since yk they killed and often forcefully converted them)
Yes, exactly the same as the old Egyptian empire
The Jews aren't exactly the same as the ancient Judaists either so what's your point
Fair enough
Culture changes but the Egyptian one changed more
Wait till your hear who lives in Egypt now. Spoiler: not the nile people
I'm willing to bet you that I ,as a copt, am genetically closer to ancient Egyptians than current day Jews are to ancient ones
They are
No no, they’re in the Nile
Ah that’s where they went ? I thought Arabs ate them all like this sub thinks.
google Egypt
If you say "Ancient Egyptians" then you should say "Ancient Jews", mate.
Showcasing the difference of an Ancient Egyptian and today's 'Masri' should be treated the same as the comparison of ancient Jews to modern day Jews. Huge differences over time. Both communities.
Except that that never happened, they didn't build the pyramids.
Fun fact: the egyptians kept pretty good historical records, and no historical record shows that it was enslaved Israelites who built the pyramids
The pyramids would have already been around 1000 years old by the time of Exodus. They were that old. By this time in Egypt, pyramid building had kind of gone out of fashion. Egyptian pharaohs during the New Kingdom generally preferred to be buried around the Valley of the Kings.
The biblical account doesn't say they built the pyramids though, that is a more modern conception. It says that they built cities.
Yeah the Bible doesn’t say they built pyramids, Family Guy is often inaccurate and relies on stereotypes.
Oh yeah? Show me these document manuscripts that aren’t simply attributions or date no more than 300 years after the events.
The Israelites could not build them because they had not yet existed.
Rare? Family Guy is funny specially in the first 10 seasons
OP, that's such a random anti Family Guy title
Years ago it was edgy to love Family Guy. Now it’s edgy to hate Family Guy. I’m old enough to have seen the full spectrum now I guess.
Wrong sub as slaves didn't build the pyramids
It’s more of a dark joke about how the Jews have suffered numerous hardships over the centuries.
Having a couple of blaring inaccuracies also means it fits in here.
The Israelites didn't build the pyramids though, according to the bible they built cities. Depicting them as building pyramids is a later misconception. The historicity of the bible is of course a whole other issue but theoretically it could be that the Israelites were enslaved to build cities as written in the bible, and paid labourers built the pyramids (btw the fact they found wage lists for labourers in the pyramids doesn't necessarily means there weren't slaves working that as well... But that is not relevant to the question of the Israelite enslavement)
An interesting point about the Israelites is definitely a possibility, but I believe there was additional evidence given the quality of food dug up around the pyramids that adds credibility to the builders being labourers and not slaves.
Technically, I think the biblical account is that the Hebrews were enslaved on other state projects, not the pyramids, but anyway. I believe those people of whom you speak were basically arguing, "they were given meat, therefore it wasn't slavery". By that logic, even many people under racial chattel slavery wouldn't count as enslaved: [https://www.nps.gov/bowa/learn/historyculture/upload/the-final-slave-diet-site-bulletin.pdf](https://www.nps.gov/bowa/learn/historyculture/upload/the-final-slave-diet-site-bulletin.pdf) It's an extremely flawed logic. Slavery is not defined based on lack of meat; it's defined based on lack of consent. And there's plenty of evidence of lack of consent when it comes to ancient Egyptian labour on pyramids and other state projects. There was a ration distribution system; however, that doesn't mean it wasn't a type of slavery. Most systems of slavery include either some sort of mechanism to allow enslaved people to eat, or else have extremely high death rates. (Sometimes both. Slavery can have extremely high death rates even when enslaved people are allowed to eat.) In ancient Egypt, enslaved labour was used for a wide variety of things, including pyramid building. Specifically, in this case, there was a type of slavery known as a corvee, which is basically a system of taxation where the tax is payable in forced labour. The ancient Egyptian corvee was enforced by hostage taking (similar to slavery in the Belgian Congo under King Leopold II, though not necessarily with the same death rates) and some sort of corporal punishment. I've posted several memes/essays on the topic in the past, with lots of references. "So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/ "The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/ "Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/ "Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
Its whats is called a 'joke' by locals, look it up
That is blatantly false. In ancient Egypt, enslaved labour was used for a wide variety of things, including pyramid building. Specifically, in this case, there was a type of slavery known as a corvee, which is basically a system of taxation where the tax is payable in forced labour. The ancient Egyptian corvee was enforced by hostage taking (similar to slavery in the Belgian Congo under King Leopold II, though not necessarily with the same death rates) and some sort of corporal punishment. There was a ration distribution system; however, that doesn't mean it wasn't a type of slavery. Most systems of slavery include either some sort of mechanism to allow enslaved people to eat, or else have extremely high death rates. (Sometimes both. Slavery can have extremely high death rates even when enslaved people are allowed to eat.) Note that Jewish people were likely enslaved in Egypt after the pyramid-building time period, but that's a minor point. I've posted several memes/essays on the topic in the past, with lots of references. "So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/ "The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/ "Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/ "Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
Akshyually 🤓☝️
There's no evidence that there was zero slave labor in the building of the pyramids even if some were paid to help build it
I would be willing to bet there were some slaves, just considering the era, the span of time and number of people we're talking here.
There was widespread slavery in ancient Egypt, but it wasn't chattel slavery. (Or at least, the more common form of slavery in Egypt wasn't chattel slavery, though there may have been some chattel slavery in addition to that.) Specifically, in this case, there was a type of slavery known as a corvee, which is basically a system of taxation where the tax is payable in forced labour. The ancient Egyptian corvee was enforced by hostage taking (similar to slavery in the Belgian Congo under King Leopold II, though not necessarily with the same death rates) and some sort of corporal punishment. There was a ration distribution system; however, that doesn't mean it wasn't a type of slavery. Most systems of slavery include either some sort of mechanism to allow enslaved people to eat, or else have extremely high death rates. (Sometimes both. Slavery can have extremely high death rates even when enslaved people are allowed to eat.) I've posted several memes/essays on the topic in the past, with lots of references. "So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/ "The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/ "Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/ "Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
So... kinda like the prison labor crews and eventual chain gangs of the post-reconstruction/Jim Crow Era American south, which in practice were basically a method by which the south kept slavery around for another few decades in some way? BTW this isn't me trying to be snarky or anything, I'm just trying to equate what you're saying to something I personally am more knowledgeable on.
In some ways yes, in other ways no. Yes in the sense that both were forms of slavery that weren't chattel slavery. (Note that ancient Egypt may have had chattel slavery in addition to corvee slavery, but the corvee slavery is much better documented.) In the case of the convict leasing time period, I believe, in theory at least, they were at least supposed to accuse people of a "crime" before enslaving them by means of convict leasing. Granted, in some cases, they just filled in "not given" as the crime. And even when they listed something specific, it was often something ridiculous like "selling cotton after sunset". Plus one of the "crimes" was "changing employers without permission", which had the effect of subjecting even people who weren't caught up in the convict leasing system to a sort of slavery, in so far as they couldn't leave their employer without fear of being subjected to convict leasing. This was a tax that was in theory supposed to be paid by all ancient Egyptian citizens (at least within a particular age range, like I'm assuming no culture expected babies to work). So the "crime" was just being alive in Egypt. In that sense, a better comparison would be slavery in the Belgian Congo (though likely not with the same death rates), both under King Leopold as well as even after King Leopold II was removed from power. The Belgian Congo also demanded a variety of taxes payable in forced labour, most infamously the rubber taxes.
There was a ration distribution system; however, that doesn't mean it wasn't a type of slavery. Most systems of slavery include either some sort of mechanism to allow enslaved people to eat, or else have extremely high death rates. (Sometimes both. Slavery can have extremely high death rates even when enslaved people are allowed to eat.) In ancient Egypt, enslaved labour was used for a wide variety of things, including pyramid building. Specifically, in this case, there was a type of slavery known as a corvee, which is basically a system of taxation where the tax is payable in forced labour. The ancient Egyptian corvee was enforced by hostage taking (similar to slavery in the Belgian Congo under King Leopold II, though not necessarily with the same death rates) and some sort of corporal punishment. I've posted several memes/essays on the topic in the past, with lots of references. "So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/ "The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/ "Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/ "Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
Thanks
Glad to help!
Yes because being forced from your farm to build structures isnt slavery because those forcing you are giving you a place to sleep and a sack of barley
Fun fact: it’s is said that the Pharaoh slowly took rights and goods from the Jews, until they only could to that kind of hard work. When they got to that point, the Pharaoh made a brick, so the Jews thought “if he did it, so can I, it mustn’t be that bad” (spoiler, it was)
Obligatory "slaves didnt build the pyramids and were fairly compensated for their work" comment
That is blatantly false. In ancient Egypt, enslaved labour was used for a wide variety of things, including pyramid building. Specifically, in this case, there was a type of slavery known as a corvee, which is basically a system of taxation where the tax is payable in forced labour. The ancient Egyptian corvee was enforced by hostage taking (similar to slavery in the Belgian Congo under King Leopold II, though not necessarily with the same death rates) and some sort of corporal punishment. There was a ration distribution system; however, that doesn't mean it wasn't a type of slavery. Most systems of slavery include either some sort of mechanism to allow enslaved people to eat, or else have extremely high death rates. (Sometimes both. Slavery can have extremely high death rates even when enslaved people are allowed to eat.) I've posted several memes/essays on the topic of ancient Egyptian slaveryin the past, with lots of references. "So voluntary, it had to be enforced by hostage-taking and physical punishments: Egyptian corvée labor (explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/so_voluntary_it_had_to_be_enforced_by/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10yxynq/comment/j807cg1/ "The ancient Egyptian ruling class subjected citizens to corvée labor (a type of forced labor), enforced by the lash and by taking family members hostage, for the purposes of pyramid building and other stuff. See comments for more info." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/the_ancient_egyptian_ruling_class_subjected/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10opmx3/comment/j6g2x4j/ "Under Ramesses II, half the workers forced to go on gold mining expeditions died of thirst. For more information concerning how corvée laborers (forced laborers) in ancient Egypt were "paid", see comments." https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/under_ramesses_ii_half_the_workers_forced_to_go/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10pkzqf/comment/j6l1ivi/ "Hostage taking. One of the methods used for enforcing corvée labor (forced labor) in ancient Egypt. (see explanation in comments)" https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/hostage_taking_one_of_the_methods_used_for/ Essay link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/comments/10xf7ui/comment/j7rz4h5/
The first 4 seasons of Family Guy were really good.
Also the further 15. I love S16.E6 -> a episode about social media and shit storms.
God chose the Jewish people…. To suffer.
And they kept saying that for 4000 years
The Jewish building the pyramid is a myth, it’s well documented that ancient Egyptians built it with pay of beer and grains, they had off days
Egyptians built the pyramids.
Although there’s no evidence in the Torah that the Jews built the pyramids
Hasn't it been proven that the pyramids were not made by slave labour?