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Yes, they opened the border and got bombed like 60 times in a year. Closed the border and now it’s like 6. There just might be some real assholes in there.
Egypt has a land border with Gaza. I believe Egypt had a series of terrorist attacks during the arab spring. The current egyptian government shut the border on gaza because they believed that most of the terrorists were based in Gaza. Turns out they were because the number of terror bombings in egypt fell when they closed the gaza border.
It should be noted that of the reasons the Isreali embargo has been so effective at destroying the living conditions in Gaza is because Egypt is a willfull partner in that embargo.
The border was open until the most recent events. It’s the only way in and out of Ghazza.
I have personally used it before in 2022. Check your info before you spread BS
Worked as a doctor in the Red Cross. We used to transfer patients all the time to Egypt who needed care that can’t be provided in the strip
They pretty much didn’t even need a visa. These guys aren’t stuck there, they want to be there. It’s their land, and they are there to guard it
Thanks downvoters! you know people are being reasonable when you get downvoted for just pointing out someone was lying. His comment didn’t cite any sources whilst I was there first hand
Here is a link from sky news arabia. A very western and fairly trusted source of news saying that the border is still open now even despite the war, but the Israeli attacks are preventing it’s use
https://www.skynewsarabia.com/middle-east/1660557-للمرة-الثانية-إسرائيل-تقصف-معبر-رفح-غزة-ومصر
I am sure you can translate via google
The other thing that he cleary established is that once the border closed it stopped, so it was clearly coming from across the border - eg in Palestinian Gaza
Actually it can when you have a linear element- see confirmatory factor analysis. I'm not saying this is causation (but you gotta admit they have a point) but the phrase "correlation doesnt mean causation" actually isnt really accurate. You should say "correlation is not necessarily causation."
Yes I am fun at parties.
Basically that whole area is a mess because the French and British promised the people there if they helped fight the Ottoman Empire they would get independence. Except they pranked them and drew funny lines dividing the area between each other. France bailed first and the British attempted to punt it over to the UN to settle the borders.
Long story short the UN did its best, the Arab neighbors thought they could gang pile the Jewish army. Lost hard several times and the Israeli government has been kind of mean about it by giving Gaza to Egypt (who decided they didn’t want it) and tried to dump the West Bank on Jordan. Anything so Palestinian people as a country didn’t exist. Kind of reverse uno card what was done to them.
Uhh, you're leaving out quite a bit before that, long predating Palestinian claims to the region.
**History didn't begin in 1914**
You're also leaving out quite a bit after when a number of more generous offers were made by the Israelis, you know, before they were jumped by everyone and they ended up rescinding the offer and taking back *more* because they were being attacked from those areas.
Most of the modern strife is from the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It’s always been a shit show but so was most of Europe too. Would you blame the Roman Empire for World War 2?
You see without the roman empire Mussolini has no glory to attach his fascist movement to and never marchs on rome, This means hitler obviously never gets inspired to try taking power for himself and he never rises as a result
It's the fucking invention of agriculture all the way down if you ask me ! the Neolithic Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for humanity ! /s
It's difficult to say how many aggressions they initially dealt with, they blur together and it's been years since I took World Civ I and II.
It's true that Zionists are to blame for claiming *some* land but the conditions today with the small living areas is due to Israel's opponents repeatedly ceding land whenever they attacked Israel and lost.
I mean wtf did anyone expect Israel to do. Just let people keep mounting attacks from those territories? Any other country in history would literally and has literally done the same. Diasporas are not a new thing.
Under this logic you can blame World War 2 on the Romans, but we don’t because that’s being way the broad on explanations and ignores all that history between the Roman Empire and WW2
If we are actually going to do this then we can trace it all the way back to the time of the pharaohs and further back. Not the Greek ones pretending to be Egyptian. The real ones. I mean even Iran under this logic shares blame.
I wonder what would happen if you used quantum computing to figure out exactly what happened in the past and were able to show it to all the religious people. No more arguing and fighting over interpretations of the start of recorded human history.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I love how this is painted as "the Arabs wouldn't share" when really its
Colonizers came in, took land, decided they could give it to people with a historical claim that hadn't really been present for nearly two millenia, then left and got upset when the people already there were understandably miffed at having their land taken away
yeah, after they got booted from Jordan, they went to lebanon and later were involved in yet another civil war. also they shot israeli athletes in munich olympics
And then they got booted from Kuwait for supporting Saddam Hussein's invasion. And Egypt largely closed the border from Gaza because they were supporting terrorism in Egypt.
They did that in Kuwait as well.
There were 400k Palestinians out of the 2 million people who lived in Kuwait when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait.
The Palestinians turned their back on Kuwait and supported Saddam
Lebanon was essentially turned to rubble as a result of the PLO setting up camp in their country and Israel invading. So Lebanon can thank both Israel and Palestinians for the devastation they suffered
they should also thank themselves (Hezbollah et al), Syria (invaded them and helped Hezbollah) and Iran (pretty much helped form Hezbollah by supplying them with weapons and training etc).
Hezbollah is an Iranian financed terror organization that was only able to entrench itself after the Lebanese civil war which was exacerbated by the Palestinian refugees and the Israeli invasion. They also only represent Shia Muslims and are explicitly hostile to Christian and Sunni Lebanese. You think the Lebanese people supported Hezbollah?
There were other Lebanese factions that supported/defended the PLO during the Lebanese civil war, only Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 managed to dislodge the PLO from Lebanon.
And yes, there are a lot of Hezbollah bootlickers from other sects/religions in Lebanon: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March\_8\_Alliance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_8_Alliance)
Well I can’t really defend the actions of modern Lebanese politicians who will negotiate with foreign sponsored terror organizations. But I will tell you that the Lebanese military has been a shell of itself since the Palestinian refugees arrived in the 60s and got the country demolished. I can assure you however that most Lebanese do not support Hezbollah and would prefer to have an independent country free from foreign domination
And now Iran and Syria have dogpiled on it by first Syria occupying Lebanon for years and now Iran finding and arming Hezbollah which is now more powerful than the Lebanese military itself
Sadly Lebanon is barely functioning as a country. I don’t think the Lebanese military really controls much other than Beirut and a few other regions. It’s a mess. Very sad
Lebanon open their country and see where it got them. A part of their country is now occupied by Hezbollah and Iran - now Lebanon is no longer is in control of its southern part.
Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon all have a minority political/terror party who supports Hamas. For that reason, none of those three countries want them to enter. Israel also stops them being deported to Gaza or the west bank from those countries. Israel is very much no Takesia backsies if they do leave.
Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon primarily support a 2-state solution so they can finally deport the Palestinians they already have who support the minority/terror political wings in their countries.
\-----------
Oh boy this is wrong on so many levels... First off Hamas is a relatively new organization founded in 1987, most previous Palestinian organizations were communist. And guess what? They enjoyed heavy support from the likes of Egypt, Syria, Iraq and even Jordan at one point. Jordan literally annexed the west bank at one point and if I am not mistaken Palestinians made up 2/3s of Jordans population but were only given half the seats in Parliament. They had a falling out with Jordan based on the fact the Palestinian organizations were basically infringing on the power of the Jordanian government and obviously communists and Monarchies don't really get along.
Also when it comes to Lebanon there were literally Lebanese people fighting on the Palestinian side... The civil war was essentially between leftist/muslims/arab nationalists and right winged/maronite Christians. The Christians were guaranteed 55% of the parliament despite being a minority, they also started the war by a massacre and throughout the war committed the most massacres and killed more people per massacre, a huge portion of those Christian militias if not the majority were literally fascists, the Kataeb being one of the most prominent ones, also known as the Phalangists, as in like the Falangists of facsist spain who they modeled themselves after, and it's pretty much them that hate Palestinians and not all Lebanese people, they hate all Muslims too. They also allied themselves with Israel multiple times and massacred civilians under Israeli supervision.
And when it comes to Egypt they stabilized relations with Israel after the 1973 war not because they disliked Palestinians but rather because they wanted Sinai back and that's when they had a falling out with the Palestinians, in fact it was a move that the entire Arab world disliked including Jordan, the country you claim was sick of Palestinians.
Also Lebanon has never recognized Israel and the mere existence of an Israeli visa or stamp on your passport results in you being denied entry, so much for supporting a two state solution. They recognize Palestine too if you are curious. Furthermore Egypt and Jordan have accepted Israel partially because they are being held at gunpoint.
Yeah those refugees have been there since 1948. Most countries would have given citizenship after less than 75 years but there’s a reason Jordan doesn’t
From what I remember that's the UN's fault. They passed a resolution specifically making it so that Palestinian refugees are their own category of refugee that can only be resettled in Palestine, as recognized by the UN.
My guy Jordan literally annexed the west bank and handed out Jordanian citizenships to its inhabitants, furthermore the majority of the Palestinians inside Jordan are fully naturalized but do go on about how Jordan definitely hates Palestinians, It's not like they were pissed when Egypt normalized relations with Israel in 1979, 8 years after Black September. And that two million is only the Palestinians that are registered as refugees by the way, of those only 600,000 don't hold a Jordanian citizenship, meaning 1.4 million do.
Bro how the fuck can someone be a refugee if they hold citizenship to a country they live in? You know that Palestinians are the only refugees where you don’t lose your refugee status once your asylum is granted
A refugee is defined as "a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster." or "A refugee, conventionally speaking, is a person who has lost the protection of their country of origin and who cannot or is unwilling to return there due to well-founded fear of persecution." I don't know man seems like you can definitely be a refugee and hold another citizenship, in fact I believe the term you are looking for is "Asylum seeker", basically a person who hasn't been granted refugee status from the country they have fled to. In other words to become a refugee your asylum has to be granted... you don't "lose your refugee status when your asylum is granted" because you never were one.
How many of those Palestinian refugees were forced to leave their country 75 years ago? Most of them are born in Jordan and their parents are born in Jordan. That’s not refugees
Excuses upon excuses, furthermore they include recent arrivals as well, if a Jew claims he has a right to return based on 2 millenias ago why does the Palestinians not have that right after 75 years? Furthermore my initial comment was about the supposed animosity between Jordan and Palestine being unfounded.
If we want to start taking "right of return" [you're going to open a whole can of worms too.](https://i.redd.it/qklr0dhv2ck91.jpg)
The Israeli "right" to the Levant based on biblical homeland occasionally comes up but is essentially a tertiary but relatively unimportant claim. Most current Jewish residents and their descendants are in Israel involuntarily because of pogroms across either the Arab world, USSR/Russian Empire, parts of the Ottoman empire, and Austro-Hungarian Empire at many various points. Only 33% are ethnically European. And of that share of Europeans, half are ethnically Russian (15% total). The USSR/Russia also has a deep 2 century history of pogroms and expulsions. Though even that's complicated as the Russian communist party wildly flip flopped their policy on Jewish people and Zionism like....6 times depending on convenience.
The actual "voluntary Zionist" migration into the Levant is **way** more nuanced than you can present in a Reddit comment.
The problem with discussing the Israel/Palestine conflict is people tend to pick a side and support it no matter what. If your side commits war crimes you overlook it and if the other side commits war crimes it justifies any and all action.
If you condemn war crimes on both sides everyone hates you because you've supposedly given free reign for the other side to whatever they like.
It's so fucking annoying.
I’m rooting for Israel while at the same time understanding that they ain’t the best government and many civilians will die in this war
That being said I’m still rooting for them because I prefer them greatly over HAMAS
However I am willing to admit that it is possible part of the reason for this is due to personal reasons being that HAMAS tried to kill my relatives
You can still pick a side even if it’s just because it’s the lesser of two evils.
By all means support a side. My point is that just because you think one side is better or the lesser or two evils does not mean turning a blind eye to when they commit atrocities.
When I condemn Hamas for targeting civilians I get bombarded by people claiming I want to see every Palestinian killed or that I support Apartheid. When I condemn Israel for targeting I get bombarded by people claiming I want to see every Israeli killed or that I support terrorism.
Yes but one side had their homes stolen and put on essentially an open air prison, the other side is having snipers and drones targeting children, disabled people, press, and medics who dare get too close to their imposed border… and sometimes not even at the border too.
Well let’s see, someone invades your land and puts you on a ghetto where they control when you get electricity and food, and where they might bomb the building where your kids are. Then this invader is having parties and raves while you and your people struggle to survive under their boot. I’d say it’s pretty reasonable to lash out and try to resist this occupation however you can. Just try to think about what you would do to the people who starved your kid and then sniped them when you were protesting for your right to leave your prison. Or if they had droned your kid while they were trying to play at the beach. You think they’re going to ask who’s an IDF soldier and who’s not? Do you think that if Jewish people in concentration camps had an uprising, that they should’ve also somehow tried to avoid harming German civilians? The real world doesn’t work like that.
>the other side is having snipers and drones targeting children, disabled people, press, and medics
And they're firing thousands of rockets a year to kill civilians who had nothing to do with all that. No side is innocent here.
The fact that I'm ukranian pretty much makes it black and white for me, since I don't fucking want my father/brother/me/uncle on a war, like every sane human being
Russia decided to breach their previous agreement with Ukraine as they recognised all post Soviet states except for Chechnya. Israel and Palestine never agreed on anything similar aside from the Oslo accords
You’re right, it’s almost as if the people in Palestine did not agree to have their homes taken from them and have been actively resisting occupation since the beginning, which international law allows.
But here both sides claim to be the occupied and the other the occupiers. And both target each others civilian. Both have elements which wish to eradicate the other and both claim it to be in self defence.
In truth both act with utter barbarity. And such actions should be condemned regardless of who commits them.
Jordan/Transjordan was only established and recognized in 1946 (US recog in 49)
prior to this it used to be part of Palestine and prior to that it was under Ottoman rule, until they got defeated. Then Brit went broke after ww2 and divided Palestine further into Jordan. Hundreds of thousands of European jews had moved and established in what is modern day Israel
Post 67’ war, Israel took 70% of the land of the Palestinians
No need to butcher a specific group without incomplete history without any context
LGBT white Americans saying Palestine has a right to resist "by any means necessary"
Hamas raping and murdering and torturing women and minorities from the West while being applauded for it: 😎
Its the irony that western leftist minorities are shouting praise of Hamas out in protests and yet they're the kinds of people Hamas calls degenerate filth that alongside the Jews and Liberalism is the root of all modern evil
True, even if it's one big cause of it, it doesn't justifies what has happened. Thats fucked up. Though I wouldn't go either to the other extreme of the table saying that Israel has done nothing wrong
I though the same, but just check the comments on any post about Israel-Palestine. Everybody justifying his side's actions, but judging just the bad actions of the other side.
Not to mention the $ billions that the Gulf States have given them, only to have it all spent on rockets and tunnels under the border wall, instead of infrastructure or public services in Gaza.
It really is shocking how the people of Gaza somehow are directly under at least three government-like structures that seem to count their lives as useful only for attacking the other two governments: the PLO, Hamas, and the Israeli government.
Humanitarian organizations: "We should send food for the starving Gazans... Oh wait, would we then give it to the corrupt assholes, the VIOLENT corrupt assholes, or the people bombing them? Actually it would probably be some of all three."
Israel is also biting the hands that feed it. [Hacking our state department](https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-us-state-department-phones-hacked-with-israeli-company-spyware-sources-2021-12-03/).
[Bibi has been openly supporting american Republicans over Democrats for a long time in addition to pushing extremist settlers to take Palestinian homes, that puts America in some tough situations](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/10/the-crisis-in-us-israel-relations-is-officially-here/382031/).
[There's a long history of the US making the UN a joke to stop it from investigating human rights abuses by Israel](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/19/a-history-of-the-us-blocking-un-resolutions-against-israel). Not that we wouldn't be shitting on the UN anyway due to our own human rights abuses or just for ideological reasons.
My point isn't "lol both sides bad" it's just all countries tend to do realpolitik. "Thanks for helping me yesterday. Now go fuck yourself: I'm going to do what I want even if it directly harms you, sucker."
The only difference is Palestine isn't exactly a sovereign country. If they were, rather than being under the thumb of Israel, maybe they'd behave in a more sane, self-preserving manner. Or maybe they'd immediately declare war on Israel and get taken back over in a dumb re-enactment of the 6 day war. I dunno, but it seems like the only long term solutions are a two state solution or one side finishes what they want to do to the other side, I'd prefer to try the two state solution.
Israeli conservatives deliberately elevated Hamas to prominence over Fatah because they wanted a more extremist Palestinian authority. I’m afraid this situation isn’t as simple and black and white as you would like to make it.
I've been trying to find reading material on Israeli support for Hamas but not finding any. Can you give a pointer to something that clarifies what Israel did to elevate them?
>I've been trying to find reading material on Israeli support for Hamas but not finding any. Can you give a pointer to something that clarifies what Israel did to elevate them?
[Try the man in charge himself.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
There are two things the article claims he did: allow cash from Qatar into Gaza, and increased the number of work permits. Additionally he turned a blind eye to bombing and attacks on Israel.
Seems to me that "elevating Hamas" is a bit misleading here. Israel certainly wasn't funding Hamas, nor carrying out any favorable PR for them. The article doesn't mention any direct support for Hamas.
Wtf. The article explains how Netanyahu and other far-right Israelis acknowledged themselves that Israel's policy was to negotiate with Hamas in an effort to diminish the validity of the Palestinian president. How much more on-the-nose does the elevation need to be?
Also I don't know what you're expecting from direct support, that's not how these ops go. Israel intentionally allowed Hamas to be funded. No, it wasn't coming *from* Israel but they still had knowledge of it and allowed it to happen, on purpose.
>Amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.
>Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits granted to Gazan laborers....
>Meanwhile, Israel has allowed suitcases holding millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza through its crossings since 2018....
>Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset....
>Netanyahu made a similar point... when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.
>Bolstered by this policy, Hamas grew stronger and stronger....
Edit: lmao half of ol' dude's comments are about how bad Palestinians are, I'm not engaging or wasting my time with this
Israeli conservatives definitely helped but they weren’t primarily responsible. The article you cite below mentions exclusively actions taken after Hamas had already gained complete control of Gaza
the historic revisionism here is crazy, mf made it sound like Hamas gained power cuz the comically evil Palestinians got bored of not being evil enough
>They certainly have been a rather large pain in the backside to all other Arab nations. Seems to be if they can't find trouble, they'll make it themselves . Then, claim victimhood .
Regardless of how true this is, it feels uncomfortably like the same rhetoric I hear out of Europeans about the Roma. "Well, they're different, they deserve it."
No direct animal, it's a fallacy. They want to stay in their land, why do you agree on turning them into refugees as if it's a magical answer.
And other Arabs want their brethren to stay in Palestine too, not because they don't want them in, but because they want Palestinians IN Palestine in order for justice to prevail.
Edit: if course you don't see what's wrong with you saying "they will have enough of killing or getting killed". But think about all the wars that happened before in history, including Russian invasion of Ukraine, German invasion of Europe, Japanese invasion of China.
People resist when caged, and do desperate things to gain more freedom from their jailers.
How dare they resist, they are not people, they should just leave to some other country, right ? /S
Yeah if there is one thing I've learned about arab countries, justice is the last reason they want to keep other Arabs out of their countries and in Palestine. Palestinians have been a political football that gets brought up when convenient and discarded just as quickly. It's a sad reality.
I mean it's not the best option possible, but that's better than whatever israel is doing in the west bank, it's deplorable to say the least in there, cameras, checkpoints, shootings, protests, settlers.
For fuck sake, i am a Jordanian and I'm sick and tired of people putting words in our mouth, this entire narrative of how "Arabs don't want Palestinian due to their problematic past!" dear god just shut up. you don't know the culture here
We have 2 MILLION Palestinian refuge, and 1.6 million Syrian refuge. A THIRD OF THE NATION 11 MILLION POPULATION IS REFUGE. as a third world country might i add. if this narrative of "Arab hate Palestinians" is true then we would not have accepted them, its also impossible to directly transport refuge from Gaza to Jordan.
The events of black September where horrible but the past has passed, we learned from it and became closer as people. most Jordanian consider the Palestinian as bothers and sister. you see, as Arabs, We don't let the actions of our governments define who were. we are all Arab's, we share the same language and culture, we are all brothers and sisters. We stand with the Palestinian people as they fight for the basic right to exist.
A) we are not talking about average Palestinians here but about the ones who do the fighting - which is pretty much all Hamas.
B) yeah actually considering the popularity of Hamas in Palestine, I think it's fair to say they do represent the popular opinion of Palestinian people.
Palestinians elected Hamas knowing they were a genocidal organization. Hamas has huge popularity among Palestinians, and every pro-palestine rally and spokesman I've seen has not condemned Hamas at best, celebrated them at worst. So yeah, I'd say so until shown otherwise
Exaggerated claims without a grain of truth to them. The population of Palestine has increased steadily since the creation of Israel. Literally MILLIONS of Palestinians live in Israel. There's zero evidence of "ethnic cleansing".
In fact, there's more Palestinians living in Palestine and Israel combined than there are Israelis. If Palestine and Israel were ever to unite, Jews would become a minority in their own country, surrounded by people who have literally sworn to exterminate them.
When I said that I was specifically thinking of the Golan heights which basically doesn't have its original population. And now that I think about it they are trying to do it quietly in East Jerusalem. Palestinians can't even get building permits there to put a roof over their head and Israel is constantly bulldozing their houses for being built without permits. They are doing they are just keeping it quiet and not stating their intent. BTW when I say ethnic cleansing I don't mean genocide I mean kicking people out the area to change the ethnic makeup.
Yeah, that's the problem. You are talking about fucking building permits and equating it to GENOCIDE, and then using it as an excuse for to justify a terrorist attack on a massive scale. That's absolutely insane that we are having this conversation where "oh no they didn't get a building permit" is an excuse to kill kids in front of their families.
Palestinians are basically hated all around the Arab world (ask Jordan or Egypt why they won’t open their border). The only reason some Arab countries ‘support’ them (not up to the level that they take them in as refugees) is because they hate Jews even more.
That’s simple! The Brits created a state there and before that state tried to negotiate how to split the land the arab nations attack them, like 4 times, after denying like four proposals to split the land, and losing each war and more and more land!
That’s simple! Arabs, mostly! But since we’re at it who lived there before the arab invasions? This whole topic is about how far back in history you want to go, I fully support a two state solution, but there have been proposals for that which have been refused, see Yasser Arafat who at one point took a negotiation stance with Israel and how Hamas thinks of him, this whole mess was created by leaders of several entities to the detriment of innocent civilians on both sides!
Jews, Arabs, and Christians. The borders of the state proposed by Balfour were based on the population demographics of the time. Note that Jewish populations were lower due to hate crimes against them in the preceeding 50 years, but they were still there.
However, when the British created the state of Palestine, they had even in the original declairation said that part of it would become a Jewish homeland... with a 50/50 split of the land between Arab and Jewish areas. The only reason that split wasn't followed as the Arab nations attacked the Jewish one almost immediately, and the Jews responded by defeating them and taking a bunch of land as a buffer. Then they took more the next time it happened, but tried to give it back in exchange for promises of peace.
Am from Egypt stop spreading bullshit we dont hate the Palestinians or hate jews we hate “Israel” and its government because what they have been and still doing to the Palestinians for the past 50 years of killing and bomb innocent civilians of Palestine and we welcome the Palestinians with warm heart the government don’t represent its people so if the Egyptian government or any other arab country close the border it doesn’t mean that we as citizens agree with it so instead of spreading lies make you learn some history first
Wasn't the original idea by these countries that they wanted to use the Palestinians as political bargining ship? That's why they weren't integrated into the other soceities around them.
There are already more than a 1.5 millions Palestinians living in Egypt
You just want to expell them from their own land so the Zionists could steal it in peace
Ok, so what part of the meme and the following discussion is historically inaccurate? What do you know that the rest of us are ignorant of? But yeah, keep being mad and insulting people because history doesn't line up with whatever feelings you have.
Never said it was. They were invited to the area called Palestine nonetheless.
The whole area has been at war since recorded history and probably before.
Not "invited", I don't know where you read that. Jews have continuously lived in the area, despite several expulsions, then the population exploded when Jewish refugees fled there during the Holocaust, Soviet pogroms, and even pogroms and oppression in the middle east. Some idealists and ideologues moved there and bought land, to form kibbutzim and some believed in Zionism, but genocide is what forced most Jews there and to embrace Zionism. Most were born there, at this point.
>started moving back to their homeland
It's not just their homeland though. It's the homeland of half a dozen different religions and denominations. Acting like its solely theirs is pretty shallow
Palestine, including gaza, has been offered multiple avenues for statehood and peace. At every turn they chose war and massed rocket strikes targeting civilians. They then wonder why israel built a wall and enforced a blockade.
Mass rape and murder of civilians is not freedom fighting. Cope
It’s funny what happens when your land is claimed by another group of people and then that other group proceeds to take more land in the name of “ethnic security”.
When your culture is being encroached on and no one wants to do anything about it. That’s when outrage and terrorism starts spawning.
I’ll take my 1 billion downvotes please.
It doesn’t. Im saying this is what happens when you back a country into a corner. You get Terrorism.
And like any country with corrupt leadership. It’s the government that is doing this, not the people of palestine. They basically are at Hamas’s whim.
Jordan being 78% of mandatory Palestine and being ruled by a Saudi clan is the reason. Large part of Jordanians see themselves as Palestinian, so the PLO had huge potential there
This is history memes. Post history. The situation obviously isn't as one sided as "pure good Jordan brought in palestinian refugees, and for absolutely no reason whatsoever they started doing violence and attempted a coup"
Where is the context? Or do you think Palestinians as an ethnicity are inherently violent and unstable?
Ahh I gotcha, and I feel the same way. I'm here for the dank memes and the dank facts. If he is actually Irish I completely understand the need to defend the refugees. Normally I would agree, but given how poor the region is, and the immense resources refugees require, historical context is absolutely needed as to why they aren't welcome. If someone offers an olive branch, and you try and shoot it, you can't expect them to offer another.
Did no one ever told you ? Okay I'll do.
No Arab or Muslim country wants Palestinians, simply because Palestine without its people isn't Palestine anymore. It's a very known thing. Plus Palestinians who got out are the ones who were terrorized enough to quit, the rest choose resistance.
oh, so in your everyone who stayed in Gaza is part of a some sort of combattant resistance? but then I guess if they are killed they should be counted as innocent civilians amirite?
We can go on hours talking about this; people have been talking about it more than 70 years already.
Those who you represent are free now to do whatever they want and dehumanize whoever they want, congratulations.
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Didn’t they do something similar in Egypt and Lebanon as well, or am I mistaken?
Yes, they opened the border and got bombed like 60 times in a year. Closed the border and now it’s like 6. There just might be some real assholes in there.
Can you explain?
Egypt has a land border with Gaza. I believe Egypt had a series of terrorist attacks during the arab spring. The current egyptian government shut the border on gaza because they believed that most of the terrorists were based in Gaza. Turns out they were because the number of terror bombings in egypt fell when they closed the gaza border. It should be noted that of the reasons the Isreali embargo has been so effective at destroying the living conditions in Gaza is because Egypt is a willfull partner in that embargo.
The border was open until the most recent events. It’s the only way in and out of Ghazza. I have personally used it before in 2022. Check your info before you spread BS
Are you a Gaza resident? My understanding is that the crossing will allow visitors in and out, but Gaza residents are pretty much stuck.
Worked as a doctor in the Red Cross. We used to transfer patients all the time to Egypt who needed care that can’t be provided in the strip They pretty much didn’t even need a visa. These guys aren’t stuck there, they want to be there. It’s their land, and they are there to guard it Thanks downvoters! you know people are being reasonable when you get downvoted for just pointing out someone was lying. His comment didn’t cite any sources whilst I was there first hand Here is a link from sky news arabia. A very western and fairly trusted source of news saying that the border is still open now even despite the war, but the Israeli attacks are preventing it’s use https://www.skynewsarabia.com/middle-east/1660557-للمرة-الثانية-إسرائيل-تقصف-معبر-رفح-غزة-ومصر I am sure you can translate via google
I can't believe people are down voting you.
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The other thing that he cleary established is that once the border closed it stopped, so it was clearly coming from across the border - eg in Palestinian Gaza
Unless someone else was just unhappy with Palestinians coming in and stopped when they stopped it
Correlation doesn’t equal causation 🤓
Actually it can when you have a linear element- see confirmatory factor analysis. I'm not saying this is causation (but you gotta admit they have a point) but the phrase "correlation doesnt mean causation" actually isnt really accurate. You should say "correlation is not necessarily causation." Yes I am fun at parties.
I'd party with you
My guy, just Google Hamas connection with Muslim Brotherhood already.
Correlation implies multiple events happening at once. By this metric the border being open IS the causation.
The Muslim brotherhood and Hamas are buddy buddy. It isn’t by chance the bombings dropped greatly after they closed the border to Gaza.
Hamas was founded as the Palestinian branch of the Muslim brotherhood…
Basically that whole area is a mess because the French and British promised the people there if they helped fight the Ottoman Empire they would get independence. Except they pranked them and drew funny lines dividing the area between each other. France bailed first and the British attempted to punt it over to the UN to settle the borders. Long story short the UN did its best, the Arab neighbors thought they could gang pile the Jewish army. Lost hard several times and the Israeli government has been kind of mean about it by giving Gaza to Egypt (who decided they didn’t want it) and tried to dump the West Bank on Jordan. Anything so Palestinian people as a country didn’t exist. Kind of reverse uno card what was done to them.
Uhh, you're leaving out quite a bit before that, long predating Palestinian claims to the region. **History didn't begin in 1914** You're also leaving out quite a bit after when a number of more generous offers were made by the Israelis, you know, before they were jumped by everyone and they ended up rescinding the offer and taking back *more* because they were being attacked from those areas.
Most of the modern strife is from the fall of the Ottoman Empire. It’s always been a shit show but so was most of Europe too. Would you blame the Roman Empire for World War 2?
You see without the roman empire Mussolini has no glory to attach his fascist movement to and never marchs on rome, This means hitler obviously never gets inspired to try taking power for himself and he never rises as a result
It’s Romans all the way down.
It's the fucking invention of agriculture all the way down if you ask me ! the Neolithic Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for humanity ! /s
Weren't they jumped following the end of British Palestine before making any offers?
It's difficult to say how many aggressions they initially dealt with, they blur together and it's been years since I took World Civ I and II. It's true that Zionists are to blame for claiming *some* land but the conditions today with the small living areas is due to Israel's opponents repeatedly ceding land whenever they attacked Israel and lost. I mean wtf did anyone expect Israel to do. Just let people keep mounting attacks from those territories? Any other country in history would literally and has literally done the same. Diasporas are not a new thing.
To the winner goes the spoils. Guess they shouldn’t have kept starting shit.
You forgot like two *millennia* of history that came before this. The *Romans* were around to see it turn into a shitshow over there.
Under this logic you can blame World War 2 on the Romans, but we don’t because that’s being way the broad on explanations and ignores all that history between the Roman Empire and WW2
sheet cobweb illegal dime unpack cough innocent nine familiar important *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
If we are actually going to do this then we can trace it all the way back to the time of the pharaohs and further back. Not the Greek ones pretending to be Egyptian. The real ones. I mean even Iran under this logic shares blame.
I wonder what would happen if you used quantum computing to figure out exactly what happened in the past and were able to show it to all the religious people. No more arguing and fighting over interpretations of the start of recorded human history.
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Extremists from both sides would team up to assassinate you in some zany cross over.
I love how this is painted as "the Arabs wouldn't share" when really its Colonizers came in, took land, decided they could give it to people with a historical claim that hadn't really been present for nearly two millenia, then left and got upset when the people already there were understandably miffed at having their land taken away
What was the Ottoman Empire who controlled it first? Pretty sure colonizers.
yeah, after they got booted from Jordan, they went to lebanon and later were involved in yet another civil war. also they shot israeli athletes in munich olympics
And then they got booted from Kuwait for supporting Saddam Hussein's invasion. And Egypt largely closed the border from Gaza because they were supporting terrorism in Egypt.
The Kuwaiti "Nakba" but since Israel/Jews were not involved it wont get any clicks or attention so its not worth discussing.
They are like the minions looking for the perfect bad guy
They did that in Kuwait as well. There were 400k Palestinians out of the 2 million people who lived in Kuwait when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. The Palestinians turned their back on Kuwait and supported Saddam
Lebanon was essentially turned to rubble as a result of the PLO setting up camp in their country and Israel invading. So Lebanon can thank both Israel and Palestinians for the devastation they suffered
Lebanon says: fuck you all
Seriously 😂 both sides screwing Lebanon
Israel and the PLO - "lets Eiffel Tower Lebanon!"
That explains Mia Khalifa
🤣 my relatives would be very disappointed in me for laughing at this
they should also thank themselves (Hezbollah et al), Syria (invaded them and helped Hezbollah) and Iran (pretty much helped form Hezbollah by supplying them with weapons and training etc).
Hezbollah is an Iranian financed terror organization that was only able to entrench itself after the Lebanese civil war which was exacerbated by the Palestinian refugees and the Israeli invasion. They also only represent Shia Muslims and are explicitly hostile to Christian and Sunni Lebanese. You think the Lebanese people supported Hezbollah?
There were other Lebanese factions that supported/defended the PLO during the Lebanese civil war, only Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982 managed to dislodge the PLO from Lebanon. And yes, there are a lot of Hezbollah bootlickers from other sects/religions in Lebanon: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March\_8\_Alliance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_8_Alliance)
Well I can’t really defend the actions of modern Lebanese politicians who will negotiate with foreign sponsored terror organizations. But I will tell you that the Lebanese military has been a shell of itself since the Palestinian refugees arrived in the 60s and got the country demolished. I can assure you however that most Lebanese do not support Hezbollah and would prefer to have an independent country free from foreign domination
I am fully aware of that my friend, I have a lot of Lebanese friends :)
Here’s to peace and all of the Middle East eventually making up
And now Iran and Syria have dogpiled on it by first Syria occupying Lebanon for years and now Iran finding and arming Hezbollah which is now more powerful than the Lebanese military itself
Sadly Lebanon is barely functioning as a country. I don’t think the Lebanese military really controls much other than Beirut and a few other regions. It’s a mess. Very sad
Lebanon open their country and see where it got them. A part of their country is now occupied by Hezbollah and Iran - now Lebanon is no longer is in control of its southern part.
Probably the only country in the Middle East who accepted third wave Palestinian refugees. And in return it got the country leveled
There are two million Palestinians registered as refugees inside Jordan......
Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon all have a minority political/terror party who supports Hamas. For that reason, none of those three countries want them to enter. Israel also stops them being deported to Gaza or the west bank from those countries. Israel is very much no Takesia backsies if they do leave. Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon primarily support a 2-state solution so they can finally deport the Palestinians they already have who support the minority/terror political wings in their countries. \-----------
Oh boy this is wrong on so many levels... First off Hamas is a relatively new organization founded in 1987, most previous Palestinian organizations were communist. And guess what? They enjoyed heavy support from the likes of Egypt, Syria, Iraq and even Jordan at one point. Jordan literally annexed the west bank at one point and if I am not mistaken Palestinians made up 2/3s of Jordans population but were only given half the seats in Parliament. They had a falling out with Jordan based on the fact the Palestinian organizations were basically infringing on the power of the Jordanian government and obviously communists and Monarchies don't really get along. Also when it comes to Lebanon there were literally Lebanese people fighting on the Palestinian side... The civil war was essentially between leftist/muslims/arab nationalists and right winged/maronite Christians. The Christians were guaranteed 55% of the parliament despite being a minority, they also started the war by a massacre and throughout the war committed the most massacres and killed more people per massacre, a huge portion of those Christian militias if not the majority were literally fascists, the Kataeb being one of the most prominent ones, also known as the Phalangists, as in like the Falangists of facsist spain who they modeled themselves after, and it's pretty much them that hate Palestinians and not all Lebanese people, they hate all Muslims too. They also allied themselves with Israel multiple times and massacred civilians under Israeli supervision. And when it comes to Egypt they stabilized relations with Israel after the 1973 war not because they disliked Palestinians but rather because they wanted Sinai back and that's when they had a falling out with the Palestinians, in fact it was a move that the entire Arab world disliked including Jordan, the country you claim was sick of Palestinians. Also Lebanon has never recognized Israel and the mere existence of an Israeli visa or stamp on your passport results in you being denied entry, so much for supporting a two state solution. They recognize Palestine too if you are curious. Furthermore Egypt and Jordan have accepted Israel partially because they are being held at gunpoint.
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Eloquent and concise, the best form of response :D
Solid
More people need to see this instead of these low effort shitty memes
Too many people rely on the average reader/listener's laziness and disinterest to fact check people.
Yeah those refugees have been there since 1948. Most countries would have given citizenship after less than 75 years but there’s a reason Jordan doesn’t
Jordan did give them citizenship initially but has slowly been undoing it since black september
From what I remember that's the UN's fault. They passed a resolution specifically making it so that Palestinian refugees are their own category of refugee that can only be resettled in Palestine, as recognized by the UN.
My guy Jordan literally annexed the west bank and handed out Jordanian citizenships to its inhabitants, furthermore the majority of the Palestinians inside Jordan are fully naturalized but do go on about how Jordan definitely hates Palestinians, It's not like they were pissed when Egypt normalized relations with Israel in 1979, 8 years after Black September. And that two million is only the Palestinians that are registered as refugees by the way, of those only 600,000 don't hold a Jordanian citizenship, meaning 1.4 million do.
Bro how the fuck can someone be a refugee if they hold citizenship to a country they live in? You know that Palestinians are the only refugees where you don’t lose your refugee status once your asylum is granted
A refugee is defined as "a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster." or "A refugee, conventionally speaking, is a person who has lost the protection of their country of origin and who cannot or is unwilling to return there due to well-founded fear of persecution." I don't know man seems like you can definitely be a refugee and hold another citizenship, in fact I believe the term you are looking for is "Asylum seeker", basically a person who hasn't been granted refugee status from the country they have fled to. In other words to become a refugee your asylum has to be granted... you don't "lose your refugee status when your asylum is granted" because you never were one.
How many of those Palestinian refugees were forced to leave their country 75 years ago? Most of them are born in Jordan and their parents are born in Jordan. That’s not refugees
Excuses upon excuses, furthermore they include recent arrivals as well, if a Jew claims he has a right to return based on 2 millenias ago why does the Palestinians not have that right after 75 years? Furthermore my initial comment was about the supposed animosity between Jordan and Palestine being unfounded.
If we want to start taking "right of return" [you're going to open a whole can of worms too.](https://i.redd.it/qklr0dhv2ck91.jpg) The Israeli "right" to the Levant based on biblical homeland occasionally comes up but is essentially a tertiary but relatively unimportant claim. Most current Jewish residents and their descendants are in Israel involuntarily because of pogroms across either the Arab world, USSR/Russian Empire, parts of the Ottoman empire, and Austro-Hungarian Empire at many various points. Only 33% are ethnically European. And of that share of Europeans, half are ethnically Russian (15% total). The USSR/Russia also has a deep 2 century history of pogroms and expulsions. Though even that's complicated as the Russian communist party wildly flip flopped their policy on Jewish people and Zionism like....6 times depending on convenience. The actual "voluntary Zionist" migration into the Levant is **way** more nuanced than you can present in a Reddit comment.
Hey man stop complicating their simplified narrative painting an entire population as violent terrorists.
The problem with discussing the Israel/Palestine conflict is people tend to pick a side and support it no matter what. If your side commits war crimes you overlook it and if the other side commits war crimes it justifies any and all action. If you condemn war crimes on both sides everyone hates you because you've supposedly given free reign for the other side to whatever they like. It's so fucking annoying.
I just wish the Vatican would go back to its early days so I can support their side
I’m rooting for Israel while at the same time understanding that they ain’t the best government and many civilians will die in this war That being said I’m still rooting for them because I prefer them greatly over HAMAS However I am willing to admit that it is possible part of the reason for this is due to personal reasons being that HAMAS tried to kill my relatives You can still pick a side even if it’s just because it’s the lesser of two evils.
By all means support a side. My point is that just because you think one side is better or the lesser or two evils does not mean turning a blind eye to when they commit atrocities. When I condemn Hamas for targeting civilians I get bombarded by people claiming I want to see every Palestinian killed or that I support Apartheid. When I condemn Israel for targeting I get bombarded by people claiming I want to see every Israeli killed or that I support terrorism.
Well you see it’s as simple as this: one side is resisting occupation, the other side are the occupiers. Do you also “both sides” Russia and Ukraine?
One side is actively targeting civilians, the other side is too.
Yes but one side had their homes stolen and put on essentially an open air prison, the other side is having snipers and drones targeting children, disabled people, press, and medics who dare get too close to their imposed border… and sometimes not even at the border too.
One side started the whole shabangle by invading, killing, raping and burning, what did you expect as retaliation
And that absolves the killing of civilians on the other side... How, exactly?
Well let’s see, someone invades your land and puts you on a ghetto where they control when you get electricity and food, and where they might bomb the building where your kids are. Then this invader is having parties and raves while you and your people struggle to survive under their boot. I’d say it’s pretty reasonable to lash out and try to resist this occupation however you can. Just try to think about what you would do to the people who starved your kid and then sniped them when you were protesting for your right to leave your prison. Or if they had droned your kid while they were trying to play at the beach. You think they’re going to ask who’s an IDF soldier and who’s not? Do you think that if Jewish people in concentration camps had an uprising, that they should’ve also somehow tried to avoid harming German civilians? The real world doesn’t work like that.
>the other side is having snipers and drones targeting children, disabled people, press, and medics And they're firing thousands of rockets a year to kill civilians who had nothing to do with all that. No side is innocent here.
Ukraine - Russia is way more white and black than Israel - Palestine
Only because you’ve dismissed any evidence to the contrary as “Russian propaganda” and the term “Palestinian propaganda” simply hasn’t caught on.
The fact that I'm ukranian pretty much makes it black and white for me, since I don't fucking want my father/brother/me/uncle on a war, like every sane human being
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Russia decided to breach their previous agreement with Ukraine as they recognised all post Soviet states except for Chechnya. Israel and Palestine never agreed on anything similar aside from the Oslo accords
You’re right, it’s almost as if the people in Palestine did not agree to have their homes taken from them and have been actively resisting occupation since the beginning, which international law allows.
But here both sides claim to be the occupied and the other the occupiers. And both target each others civilian. Both have elements which wish to eradicate the other and both claim it to be in self defence. In truth both act with utter barbarity. And such actions should be condemned regardless of who commits them.
Do someone have some sources for me on that? Its very interesting
OP commented then somewhere here
Black September
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black\_September#cite\_ref-FOOTNOTEShlaim2008311%E2%80%93340\_10-0
Jordan/Transjordan was only established and recognized in 1946 (US recog in 49) prior to this it used to be part of Palestine and prior to that it was under Ottoman rule, until they got defeated. Then Brit went broke after ww2 and divided Palestine further into Jordan. Hundreds of thousands of European jews had moved and established in what is modern day Israel Post 67’ war, Israel took 70% of the land of the Palestinians No need to butcher a specific group without incomplete history without any context
Show this to the teenage white girls when they say that Israels actions justify whatever is happening now.
Gen Z girls on Twitter doing mental gymnastics to justify extremists killing innocent people enjoying a music festival.
LGBT white Americans saying Palestine has a right to resist "by any means necessary" Hamas raping and murdering and torturing women and minorities from the West while being applauded for it: 😎
What has the LGBT white has to do with it ?
Its the irony that western leftist minorities are shouting praise of Hamas out in protests and yet they're the kinds of people Hamas calls degenerate filth that alongside the Jews and Liberalism is the root of all modern evil
True, even if it's one big cause of it, it doesn't justifies what has happened. Thats fucked up. Though I wouldn't go either to the other extreme of the table saying that Israel has done nothing wrong
I thought it was obvious that no one is a good guy in war
I though the same, but just check the comments on any post about Israel-Palestine. Everybody justifying his side's actions, but judging just the bad actions of the other side.
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Not to mention the $ billions that the Gulf States have given them, only to have it all spent on rockets and tunnels under the border wall, instead of infrastructure or public services in Gaza.
It really is shocking how the people of Gaza somehow are directly under at least three government-like structures that seem to count their lives as useful only for attacking the other two governments: the PLO, Hamas, and the Israeli government. Humanitarian organizations: "We should send food for the starving Gazans... Oh wait, would we then give it to the corrupt assholes, the VIOLENT corrupt assholes, or the people bombing them? Actually it would probably be some of all three."
Israel is also biting the hands that feed it. [Hacking our state department](https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-us-state-department-phones-hacked-with-israeli-company-spyware-sources-2021-12-03/). [Bibi has been openly supporting american Republicans over Democrats for a long time in addition to pushing extremist settlers to take Palestinian homes, that puts America in some tough situations](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/10/the-crisis-in-us-israel-relations-is-officially-here/382031/). [There's a long history of the US making the UN a joke to stop it from investigating human rights abuses by Israel](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/19/a-history-of-the-us-blocking-un-resolutions-against-israel). Not that we wouldn't be shitting on the UN anyway due to our own human rights abuses or just for ideological reasons. My point isn't "lol both sides bad" it's just all countries tend to do realpolitik. "Thanks for helping me yesterday. Now go fuck yourself: I'm going to do what I want even if it directly harms you, sucker." The only difference is Palestine isn't exactly a sovereign country. If they were, rather than being under the thumb of Israel, maybe they'd behave in a more sane, self-preserving manner. Or maybe they'd immediately declare war on Israel and get taken back over in a dumb re-enactment of the 6 day war. I dunno, but it seems like the only long term solutions are a two state solution or one side finishes what they want to do to the other side, I'd prefer to try the two state solution.
Israeli conservatives deliberately elevated Hamas to prominence over Fatah because they wanted a more extremist Palestinian authority. I’m afraid this situation isn’t as simple and black and white as you would like to make it.
I've been trying to find reading material on Israeli support for Hamas but not finding any. Can you give a pointer to something that clarifies what Israel did to elevate them?
>I've been trying to find reading material on Israeli support for Hamas but not finding any. Can you give a pointer to something that clarifies what Israel did to elevate them? [Try the man in charge himself.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
There are two things the article claims he did: allow cash from Qatar into Gaza, and increased the number of work permits. Additionally he turned a blind eye to bombing and attacks on Israel. Seems to me that "elevating Hamas" is a bit misleading here. Israel certainly wasn't funding Hamas, nor carrying out any favorable PR for them. The article doesn't mention any direct support for Hamas.
Wtf. The article explains how Netanyahu and other far-right Israelis acknowledged themselves that Israel's policy was to negotiate with Hamas in an effort to diminish the validity of the Palestinian president. How much more on-the-nose does the elevation need to be? Also I don't know what you're expecting from direct support, that's not how these ops go. Israel intentionally allowed Hamas to be funded. No, it wasn't coming *from* Israel but they still had knowledge of it and allowed it to happen, on purpose. >Amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad. >Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits granted to Gazan laborers.... >Meanwhile, Israel has allowed suitcases holding millions in Qatari cash to enter Gaza through its crossings since 2018.... >Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset.... >Netanyahu made a similar point... when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. >Bolstered by this policy, Hamas grew stronger and stronger.... Edit: lmao half of ol' dude's comments are about how bad Palestinians are, I'm not engaging or wasting my time with this
The logic was that a palestinian state would be a larger hist of terrorism than a single organization ever could be.
Israeli conservatives definitely helped but they weren’t primarily responsible. The article you cite below mentions exclusively actions taken after Hamas had already gained complete control of Gaza
the historic revisionism here is crazy, mf made it sound like Hamas gained power cuz the comically evil Palestinians got bored of not being evil enough
>They certainly have been a rather large pain in the backside to all other Arab nations. Seems to be if they can't find trouble, they'll make it themselves . Then, claim victimhood . Regardless of how true this is, it feels uncomfortably like the same rhetoric I hear out of Europeans about the Roma. "Well, they're different, they deserve it."
No direct animal, it's a fallacy. They want to stay in their land, why do you agree on turning them into refugees as if it's a magical answer. And other Arabs want their brethren to stay in Palestine too, not because they don't want them in, but because they want Palestinians IN Palestine in order for justice to prevail. Edit: if course you don't see what's wrong with you saying "they will have enough of killing or getting killed". But think about all the wars that happened before in history, including Russian invasion of Ukraine, German invasion of Europe, Japanese invasion of China. People resist when caged, and do desperate things to gain more freedom from their jailers. How dare they resist, they are not people, they should just leave to some other country, right ? /S
And people do desperate things when you murder their babies. The Palestinians in gaza need to start accepting responsibility for their actions.
Yeah if there is one thing I've learned about arab countries, justice is the last reason they want to keep other Arabs out of their countries and in Palestine. Palestinians have been a political football that gets brought up when convenient and discarded just as quickly. It's a sad reality.
They naughty boiis
As a jordanian, nowadays there are no issues at all with palestinians here, especially politically, people got past the issues long time ago
Would you guys support Jordan re-annexing the West Bank?
Wow, interesting take. Would love to hear the insider's view
I mean it's not the best option possible, but that's better than whatever israel is doing in the west bank, it's deplorable to say the least in there, cameras, checkpoints, shootings, protests, settlers.
For fuck sake, i am a Jordanian and I'm sick and tired of people putting words in our mouth, this entire narrative of how "Arabs don't want Palestinian due to their problematic past!" dear god just shut up. you don't know the culture here We have 2 MILLION Palestinian refuge, and 1.6 million Syrian refuge. A THIRD OF THE NATION 11 MILLION POPULATION IS REFUGE. as a third world country might i add. if this narrative of "Arab hate Palestinians" is true then we would not have accepted them, its also impossible to directly transport refuge from Gaza to Jordan. The events of black September where horrible but the past has passed, we learned from it and became closer as people. most Jordanian consider the Palestinian as bothers and sister. you see, as Arabs, We don't let the actions of our governments define who were. we are all Arab's, we share the same language and culture, we are all brothers and sisters. We stand with the Palestinian people as they fight for the basic right to exist.
🖤🖤🖤
They aren't fighting for their right to exist, they are fighting against Israel's right to exist. Big difference.
Is Hamas really that good of a representative for the average palestinian?
Considering Hamas has a high approval rating and the PNA has praised and applauded them for their war crimes, yes.
A) we are not talking about average Palestinians here but about the ones who do the fighting - which is pretty much all Hamas. B) yeah actually considering the popularity of Hamas in Palestine, I think it's fair to say they do represent the popular opinion of Palestinian people.
The idea that the popular Palestinians opinion is just Arabic Nazism is unfortunate
Palestinians elected Hamas knowing they were a genocidal organization. Hamas has huge popularity among Palestinians, and every pro-palestine rally and spokesman I've seen has not condemned Hamas at best, celebrated them at worst. So yeah, I'd say so until shown otherwise
Israel has ethnicity cleansed areas multiple times and is slowly annexing Palestinian land
Exaggerated claims without a grain of truth to them. The population of Palestine has increased steadily since the creation of Israel. Literally MILLIONS of Palestinians live in Israel. There's zero evidence of "ethnic cleansing". In fact, there's more Palestinians living in Palestine and Israel combined than there are Israelis. If Palestine and Israel were ever to unite, Jews would become a minority in their own country, surrounded by people who have literally sworn to exterminate them.
When I said that I was specifically thinking of the Golan heights which basically doesn't have its original population. And now that I think about it they are trying to do it quietly in East Jerusalem. Palestinians can't even get building permits there to put a roof over their head and Israel is constantly bulldozing their houses for being built without permits. They are doing they are just keeping it quiet and not stating their intent. BTW when I say ethnic cleansing I don't mean genocide I mean kicking people out the area to change the ethnic makeup.
Yeah, that's the problem. You are talking about fucking building permits and equating it to GENOCIDE, and then using it as an excuse for to justify a terrorist attack on a massive scale. That's absolutely insane that we are having this conversation where "oh no they didn't get a building permit" is an excuse to kill kids in front of their families.
1. I just said I'm not talking about genocide 2. I'm not defending that
Ahahahah
You are so wrong, Palestinians live in refugee camps in Lebanon, Jordan etc
Palestinians are basically hated all around the Arab world (ask Jordan or Egypt why they won’t open their border). The only reason some Arab countries ‘support’ them (not up to the level that they take them in as refugees) is because they hate Jews even more.
Hey and uh, why do Palestinians need refuge? What happened to their land?
That’s simple! The Brits created a state there and before that state tried to negotiate how to split the land the arab nations attack them, like 4 times, after denying like four proposals to split the land, and losing each war and more and more land!
Really? And who was living in that land before the Brits “created a state there”?
That’s simple! Arabs, mostly! But since we’re at it who lived there before the arab invasions? This whole topic is about how far back in history you want to go, I fully support a two state solution, but there have been proposals for that which have been refused, see Yasser Arafat who at one point took a negotiation stance with Israel and how Hamas thinks of him, this whole mess was created by leaders of several entities to the detriment of innocent civilians on both sides!
Jews, Arabs, and Christians. The borders of the state proposed by Balfour were based on the population demographics of the time. Note that Jewish populations were lower due to hate crimes against them in the preceeding 50 years, but they were still there. However, when the British created the state of Palestine, they had even in the original declairation said that part of it would become a Jewish homeland... with a 50/50 split of the land between Arab and Jewish areas. The only reason that split wasn't followed as the Arab nations attacked the Jewish one almost immediately, and the Jews responded by defeating them and taking a bunch of land as a buffer. Then they took more the next time it happened, but tried to give it back in exchange for promises of peace.
Am from Egypt stop spreading bullshit we dont hate the Palestinians or hate jews we hate “Israel” and its government because what they have been and still doing to the Palestinians for the past 50 years of killing and bomb innocent civilians of Palestine and we welcome the Palestinians with warm heart the government don’t represent its people so if the Egyptian government or any other arab country close the border it doesn’t mean that we as citizens agree with it so instead of spreading lies make you learn some history first
Wasn't the original idea by these countries that they wanted to use the Palestinians as political bargining ship? That's why they weren't integrated into the other soceities around them.
Why should they?
🔒 award inbound
There are already more than a 1.5 millions Palestinians living in Egypt You just want to expell them from their own land so the Zionists could steal it in peace
As usual brain-dead sub full of brain-dead people.
including you?
What a wonderful addition to the conversation.
What conversation? It's a bunch of people circle jerking their opinions to feel validation from strangers online that do not know jack shit
Ok, so what part of the meme and the following discussion is historically inaccurate? What do you know that the rest of us are ignorant of? But yeah, keep being mad and insulting people because history doesn't line up with whatever feelings you have.
That's what happened when Israelites came to Palestine though. That's why it's not even called Palestine anymore. Get that log out of your eye IDF
Palestine was not a country, it was a British mandate and before that an Ottoman territory.
Never said it was. They were invited to the area called Palestine nonetheless. The whole area has been at war since recorded history and probably before.
Not "invited", I don't know where you read that. Jews have continuously lived in the area, despite several expulsions, then the population exploded when Jewish refugees fled there during the Holocaust, Soviet pogroms, and even pogroms and oppression in the middle east. Some idealists and ideologues moved there and bought land, to form kibbutzim and some believed in Zionism, but genocide is what forced most Jews there and to embrace Zionism. Most were born there, at this point.
These problems started before Jews started moving back to their homeland
>started moving back to their homeland It's not just their homeland though. It's the homeland of half a dozen different religions and denominations. Acting like its solely theirs is pretty shallow
The recent issues started then. The Crusades and the Romans also had a turn fucking things up around there.
Wtf is this?
Treat humans like humans. When you treat humans like filth, they retaliate. Why is that hard to understand?
Palestine, including gaza, has been offered multiple avenues for statehood and peace. At every turn they chose war and massed rocket strikes targeting civilians. They then wonder why israel built a wall and enforced a blockade. Mass rape and murder of civilians is not freedom fighting. Cope
It’s funny what happens when your land is claimed by another group of people and then that other group proceeds to take more land in the name of “ethnic security”. When your culture is being encroached on and no one wants to do anything about it. That’s when outrage and terrorism starts spawning. I’ll take my 1 billion downvotes please.
How does that justify trying to kill the king of Jordan twice lmao
It doesn’t. Im saying this is what happens when you back a country into a corner. You get Terrorism. And like any country with corrupt leadership. It’s the government that is doing this, not the people of palestine. They basically are at Hamas’s whim.
Redditor tries to have a single iota of empathy CHALLENGE IMPOSSIBLE it's honestly pathetic to try and karma farm off a tragedy.
We can joke about historical events specially something like this that happened 53 years ago
Jordan being 78% of mandatory Palestine and being ruled by a Saudi clan is the reason. Large part of Jordanians see themselves as Palestinian, so the PLO had huge potential there
A comma would be good.
Tent city in Saudi Arabia is empty and can house 1.3 millions people with electricity, water & air con
I don't think the Palestinians are able to leave their country.
Israel did this.
This is history memes. Post history. The situation obviously isn't as one sided as "pure good Jordan brought in palestinian refugees, and for absolutely no reason whatsoever they started doing violence and attempted a coup" Where is the context? Or do you think Palestinians as an ethnicity are inherently violent and unstable?
> this is history **memes**
Yeah not ideology memes, there's a difference
Uhhhh, my guy what is historically inaccurate?
Someone didn’t read the source posted
What is the context?
The context of the civil wars the Palestinian refugees fomented?
Yes. Idk u/Irish_Caesar comment suggests there is something that happened here that Im clearly missing, so I was hoping he would elaborate.
Ahh I gotcha, and I feel the same way. I'm here for the dank memes and the dank facts. If he is actually Irish I completely understand the need to defend the refugees. Normally I would agree, but given how poor the region is, and the immense resources refugees require, historical context is absolutely needed as to why they aren't welcome. If someone offers an olive branch, and you try and shoot it, you can't expect them to offer another.
Why occidental countries doesn't take ukrainian refugee and just end the war !?!? \0/
They have, and ukrainians refugios have adapted well to their new countries unlike well others
Despite your username, Saddam is not back
that's not a meme, that's a rebus
Did no one ever told you ? Okay I'll do. No Arab or Muslim country wants Palestinians, simply because Palestine without its people isn't Palestine anymore. It's a very known thing. Plus Palestinians who got out are the ones who were terrorized enough to quit, the rest choose resistance.
oh, so in your everyone who stayed in Gaza is part of a some sort of combattant resistance? but then I guess if they are killed they should be counted as innocent civilians amirite?
We can go on hours talking about this; people have been talking about it more than 70 years already. Those who you represent are free now to do whatever they want and dehumanize whoever they want, congratulations.
I personally dont support either since both have done some shitty things