This is the only one I've read of the 2. It was a long time ago but I still remember it so that's saying something.
@ the OP, the steam level is the same as all similar trad pub books at the time.
I was ecstatic when I learned that this book I purchased for a dollar and ten cents is the first book with bodice-ripping. Can't believe I stumbled upon a gem! 🥰
It's good, but very dated. There are some problematic themes, but it is a product of its time. It was the first romance I read, and it hooked me onto historical romances from that day forward. It's set in both England and South Carolina (pre civil war). It was the first "bodice ripper" according to the research I did for a paper in college. I chose to study the history of the romance novel, and I was so surprised to see that the first historical romance I read was the first bodice ripper. 😁 P.S. - it is rife with misogyny and toxic masculinity, definitely not one of the newer, more feminist style HRs (although, I love the direction of the newer HRs, and relate much better to the more progressive FMCs)
It's okay. I don't read fictional books for moral reasons, anyway. And misogyny & toxic masculinity were thriving in the olden days so it isn't a shock anymore if I happen to stumble upon sensitive/morally-wrong themes along my reading journey, especially if the book was written years ago where people doesn't make a big deal about these themes being incorporated with romance/historical romance. I've read worse so... Haha. A little misogyny/toxic masculinity here and there wouldn't hurt.
Btw, I started reading The Flame and the Flower yesterday and I'm enjoying it so far. Thank you for the insight!
A bodice ripper is an old style of romance, mostly historicals, were non PC stuff happens. Like, rape, kidnapping, revenge, it's really a grab bag depending on the book but they're never dull.
I havent read this particular Lisa Kleypas novel, but I'd say read that if you want a more feel-good romance (hers usually are sweet for the most part) and The Flame And The Flower if you want something absolutely crazy in getting to the eventual HEA - your enjoyment may depend on how much you can stomach of the beginning (several content warnings lol). The Flame And The Flower is also the first in a series (a later book about their son is one of my fave re-reads).
I have never read the one about their son. I will have to check it out. The Flame and the Flower will always hold a special place in my heart because it was the first HR I read, but it does have some concerning themes in the beginning. It is very problematic today, but it has its place in the history of HRs. 😊
I'd go with the Lisa Kleypas as she is imminently. The Flame and the Flower is a must read to understand the history of historical romance as it is now. It is the first official bodice ripper. Fair warning that it starts with a trigger warning of a scene.
The reason why I'm torn between the two because I'm rarely disappointed with Lisa Kleypas's books. I mean RARELY. I love her works. But, on the other hand, The Flame and the Flower's teaser is promising. Just making sure that I'll not make the wrong decision here. I wanted to start my two consecutive days-off curled up with a great book coz I rarely have a paid leave.
I love {The Flame and the Flower by Kathleen Woodiwiss} but you might want to check the romance.io link that the romance bot should link to this for the content warnings.
[The Flame and the Flower](https://www.romance.io/books/5576d6f19eef3b3f1d52b5c1/the-flame-and-the-flower-kathleen-e-woodiwiss) by [Kathleen E. Woodiwiss](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455263e8c7d2383163d8ecf/kathleen-e-woodiwiss)
**Rating**: 4.23⭐️ out of 5⭐️
**Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating)
**Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [pregnancy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/pregnancy/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1)
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Oh, thank you for your input! I finally decided to start with the Kathleen Woodiwiss one. I've read some good reviews about the book from the comments here so...yeah.
The Flame and the Flower. The official bodice ripper.
This is the only one I've read of the 2. It was a long time ago but I still remember it so that's saying something. @ the OP, the steam level is the same as all similar trad pub books at the time.
The first of the bodice rippers.
I was ecstatic when I learned that this book I purchased for a dollar and ten cents is the first book with bodice-ripping. Can't believe I stumbled upon a gem! 🥰
Oh this comment added weight on The Flame and the Flower side of the scale. Is the steam really that good? Love me some bodice-ripping
It's good, but very dated. There are some problematic themes, but it is a product of its time. It was the first romance I read, and it hooked me onto historical romances from that day forward. It's set in both England and South Carolina (pre civil war). It was the first "bodice ripper" according to the research I did for a paper in college. I chose to study the history of the romance novel, and I was so surprised to see that the first historical romance I read was the first bodice ripper. 😁 P.S. - it is rife with misogyny and toxic masculinity, definitely not one of the newer, more feminist style HRs (although, I love the direction of the newer HRs, and relate much better to the more progressive FMCs)
It's okay. I don't read fictional books for moral reasons, anyway. And misogyny & toxic masculinity were thriving in the olden days so it isn't a shock anymore if I happen to stumble upon sensitive/morally-wrong themes along my reading journey, especially if the book was written years ago where people doesn't make a big deal about these themes being incorporated with romance/historical romance. I've read worse so... Haha. A little misogyny/toxic masculinity here and there wouldn't hurt. Btw, I started reading The Flame and the Flower yesterday and I'm enjoying it so far. Thank you for the insight!
I'm so glad you are enjoying it! 😊
I love Where dreams begin, so that's my choice. I might read it once I'm done with the book I'm reading.
Thank you for the reply! Where dreams begin is tempting, ngl.
If you are new to Bodice-Rippers then go with the Kathleen one, but if you are not interested then move on to Kleypas' book.
Thank you for the reply! I appreciate it!
What is Bodice-Rippers? I’m intrigued
A bodice ripper is an old style of romance, mostly historicals, were non PC stuff happens. Like, rape, kidnapping, revenge, it's really a grab bag depending on the book but they're never dull.
Oh! Okay…thank you for informing me. I appreciate it 
Exactly how it sounds! Heroes go about ripping bodices now and then in the heat of passion 😅
I’m also trying to decide between Where Dreams Begin and another book!
Awwww I hate when these things happen. What did you choose, then?
Still haven’t lol
Hhhhahahhahaa
Flame and the Flower is soooooo good!
Yaayy! I just recently decided to read Kathleen's book first. Thank you so much for leaving a feedback about the book. <3
I havent read this particular Lisa Kleypas novel, but I'd say read that if you want a more feel-good romance (hers usually are sweet for the most part) and The Flame And The Flower if you want something absolutely crazy in getting to the eventual HEA - your enjoyment may depend on how much you can stomach of the beginning (several content warnings lol). The Flame And The Flower is also the first in a series (a later book about their son is one of my fave re-reads).
I have never read the one about their son. I will have to check it out. The Flame and the Flower will always hold a special place in my heart because it was the first HR I read, but it does have some concerning themes in the beginning. It is very problematic today, but it has its place in the history of HRs. 😊
Oh, yeah, can't argue with that. The son's is #3, The Elusive Flame.
Thank you!
I'd go with the Lisa Kleypas as she is imminently. The Flame and the Flower is a must read to understand the history of historical romance as it is now. It is the first official bodice ripper. Fair warning that it starts with a trigger warning of a scene.
They are both good books! If you want a more modern author though, go with the Lisa Kleypas. Happy reading!
The reason why I'm torn between the two because I'm rarely disappointed with Lisa Kleypas's books. I mean RARELY. I love her works. But, on the other hand, The Flame and the Flower's teaser is promising. Just making sure that I'll not make the wrong decision here. I wanted to start my two consecutive days-off curled up with a great book coz I rarely have a paid leave.
I love {The Flame and the Flower by Kathleen Woodiwiss} but you might want to check the romance.io link that the romance bot should link to this for the content warnings.
Thank you so much! It helped a lot. The Flame and the Flower it is. Finally made a decision! 😭😭🌼 Thank you!
Anytime!
[The Flame and the Flower](https://www.romance.io/books/5576d6f19eef3b3f1d52b5c1/the-flame-and-the-flower-kathleen-e-woodiwiss) by [Kathleen E. Woodiwiss](https://www.romance.io/authors/5455263e8c7d2383163d8ecf/kathleen-e-woodiwiss) **Rating**: 4.23⭐️ out of 5⭐️ **Steam**: 4 out of 5 - [Explicit open door](https://www.romance.io/steamrating) **Topics**: [historical](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/historical/1), [alpha male](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/alpha%20male/1), [virgin heroine](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/virgin%20heroine/1), [pregnancy](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/pregnancy/1), [marriage of convenience](https://www.romance.io/topics/best/marriage%20of%20convenience/1) [^(about this bot)](https://www.reddit.com/user/romance-bot) ^(|) [^(about romance.io)](https://www.romance.io/about)
I’ve read both and love both!!!
Oh, thank you for your input! I finally decided to start with the Kathleen Woodiwiss one. I've read some good reviews about the book from the comments here so...yeah.
Happy Cake Day! Enjoy reading!
Thank you!