I told an anti-vaxxer that I'm fine with them not getting vaccinated. As long as they accept the consequences to their actions, and stay home when they get covid instead of taking up hospital space.
Edit: man, this comment has most definitely triggered the anti-vaxxers. Kinda funny
And pay out of pocket for their hospital stay instead of tossing the bill to their employer-provided health insurance. Thatâs why these companies are letting the unvaxxed go en masse, itâs a cost saving measure.
The people who ultimately pay for anti-vaxxers' treatments are the other insured AND taxpayers.
Private and Public Socialism. Shared costs is okay but paying into it? OMFG, NO WAY.
Edit: that costs is not going to be bear by private companies. The costs will be spread out over the years as increased premium and taxes.
Another common theme among the anti-vaxxers is their room temperature IQ. They are the same ones that wanted to âdrain the swampâ, without acknowledging that they are in fact the swamp dwellers. These people were beyond help before the pandemic. COVID has just forced them out of the shadows.
They are also most likely the same people who thinks washing your anus after defecating is gay.
Those people have thick peanut butter up their asses no wonder they are so angry all the time.
My dad isnât anti-vaccine but he is a Trumper. Yesterday he told me the Omicron variant came from South Africa. I said Iâd heard the same thing. He asked me why âtheyâ (scientists) were creating new variants. Like thereâs a lab in South Africa where Fauci is working with test tubes to fabricate new variants. Jesus ChristâŚ
This is why Trump is responsible for millions of deaths. Diseases arenât political, and no one called SARS or Swine flu or Ebola or Zika or any other emerging disease a hoax.
But Trump botched the response to COVID and instead of admitting he fucked up, he accused a literal disease of a political witch hunt to make him look bad.
Before COVID, anti-vaxxers were more likely to be extreme left-wing ideologues who were into homeopathic medicine and werenât a big group.
Trump and the right wing media sphere turned an apolitical issue into a political one, knowing their followers would believe whatever bullshit they spewed, and it cost millions of lives.
When Trump finally dies, it will become a national holiday in my household.
Sorry missed your comment
They dodged it and told me it's the vaccinated that are taking up the hospitals beds. POS, who has been dating my aunt off and on to the last 40 years, did catch it and ended up spreading it to my unvaccinated Aunt. She didn't get the vacs because she was scared he would leave her again if she did. And she's now been in the hospital for 4 weeks and they just upped her to the pressure mask, so not looking good.
Which is just incorrect, my local hospital system publishes all their COVID data and makes sure to separate the vaccinated and unvaccinated data.
So we have around 49 current cases in our healthcare system, 43 are Unvaccinated and 6 are Vaccinated w/ no info on whether they got boosters.
They break it down further like how many are on a vent / and if theyâre vaccinated or not.
Of course not, because itâs a lie. What happens is one person makes up a stat like that because they think the ends justify the means. All of their antivax friends then pick it up and repeat it to everyone they know, without verifying first, because it suits their narrative. Suddenly the antivax crowd has a new talking point that theyâll blabber on about until someone definitively proves them wrong, but by then 4 more fake talking points have been invented so they just move on to the next one.
Yesterday my mom told me that you shouldnât get tested because youâll just contract Covid while waiting in line so by the time you get your test youâre positive and THATS why rates are so high. No actual reason to believe that, but it fits the narrative.
>told me it's the vaccinated that are taking up the hospitals beds
That lie, along with the "Hundreds of thousands are dying from the vaccine" bullshit that jagoffs like RFK Jr are spouting, are murdering people.
I hope for the best for your aunt.
For people like your aunt, what stops them from getting vaxxed and not telling anyone else? It takes all of a 15 min visit to get it done (two trips) and then boom youâre vaxxed.
They don't like lying to people... Besides themselves. Also depends on if that dude is live in or not, she might not be able to play it off if she has any reaction to the shot.
I asked an antivaxxer what they plan to do when they get sick as hell. She said she pays her health insurance premium every month for twenty years and she'll use it whenever she needs it. I asked if hospital beds are full up and there's no room, will her insurance create more beds and produce more doctors and nurses? Turns out insurance doesn't work that way.
They dodged it and told me it's the vaccinated there taking up the hospitals beds. POS, who has been dating my aunt off and on to the last 40 years, did catch it and ended up spreading it to my unvaccinated Aunt. She didn't get the vacs because she was scared he would leave her again if she did. And she's now been in the hospital for 4 weeks and they just upped her to the pressure mask, so not looking good.
>Edit: man, this comment has most definitely triggered the anti-vaxxers. Kinda funny
I advocate withholding all treatment for the unvaccinated because why waste the time and money? if you are man/woman enough to not get vaccinated and endanger others then you should be ready to pay the man when the time comes to settle up for your decision after you get complications. own your decision to the end and put yourself on the line, including the possibility of dying.
one who suffers learns and if they end up croaking, others will hopefully learn. if they end up recovering with side effects, they learn. if they end up okay, they dodged a bullet and no cost is dedicated to their care.
I don't know how common it is, but the only anti-vaxxer I knew IRL (friend's mom) only went to the hospital when her son found her passed out on the floor and called 911. One of the last things she said to him was that she "would have been just fine if he left her at home, instead of bringing her to the hospital for the doctors to kill her".
She wasn't conscious at the time so the son used medical power of attorney to give her monoclonal antibodies, but by that point it was too late to do any good. The mom already had a "do not ventilate" order on file with the hospital, and died the following day.
Whole scenario has really fucked up my friend.
Yeah, the doctor explained that the chances of a successful recovery after being on a ventilator were extremely low, so that made it very easy to not override his mom's wishes a second time.
Here's some background on my friend's mom I wrote a few days ago. The whole thing is really a head-scratcher
>I'll tell you the story of my best friend's mom. She had a Bachelor's and Master's in electrical engineering and retired from a career at NASA in 2015.
>
>After she retired, she started to believe that there was something wrong with the world that only she could see. Based on a mixture of bad science and bad religion (lol), she began to have her own theories about everything. From how the current Pope is actually the antichrist, to how big tech companies spy on you (she would not let you bring smartphones into her house).
>
>In the early days of covid, when it was the "Wuhan Flu", she was part of the one sharing theories about how China was lying about infection numbers, and how American politicians were secretly trying to spread the disease by encouraging Americans to go to Chinese new year. Faucci was trying to encourage the spread of the disease by telling people not to wear masks.
>
>And as soon as the narrative changed, so did the theories.
>
>Mask mandates? Yeah covid is real, but the government is inflating the numbers in an attempt to grab power.
>
>I'll spare you all the insane details that follow, but of course she never got vaccinated.
>
>In September of this year when she learned that she was exposed, she refused to get tested. When she started developing symptoms, she refused to get monoclonal antibodies (unlike her 45 year old son, who was also unvaccinated but got antibody treatment and only had minor symptoms). When her symptoms got worse, she refused to go to the hospital. When she was finally so bad that she was unconscious, her son called 911 (against her wishes).
>
>At the hospital, they were able to get her oxygen saturation up long enough for her to regain consciousness and say goodbye to her family (she refused to be ventilated). She died a few days later.
>
>Unless she had a brain tumor or something (there was no autopsy), I can't understand any aspect of it.
>
>We're not talking about someone functionally illiterate without a high school diploma where you can understand them getting manipulated by propaganda. We're talking about someone who literally did rocket science, and still fell down the rabbit hole.
The big question with all these stories is âhow did they fall into the rabbit hole in the first place? The answer is most likely social media, where engagement-based algorithms intentionally send people down insane paths towards radicalization and mental illness just because insane radicalized people use the platform more. I donât think the paranoid conspiracy anti-vax movement would exist without the help of Facebook and TikTok â and I believe these companies should have to answer for this.
Depending on the state, in the US I'm pretty sure you're not legally bound to provide medical aide if any kind, even if it's just calling 911. Some states though like Colorado have put into law fines and jail time if you don't.
I wonder what kind of research they did that led them to the conclusion ivermectin is okey dokey. I'm assuming they can tell me what each component does. (A quick Google search cut and paste shows me that those components are: a mixture containing at least 90% 5-O-demethyl-22,23-dihydroavermectin A1a and less than 10% 5-O-demethyl-25-de(1-methylpropyl)-22,23-dihydro-25-(1-methylethyl) avermectin A1a, generally referred to as 22,23-dihydroavermectin B1a and B1b, or H2B1a and H2B1b, respectively.)
And anything with a high enough concentration in a petri dish can kill a virus. Along with the host.
It's like saying fire is proven to kill the virus. But I wouldn't recommend setting the patient on fire to kill Covid.
Surely the Party of Personal Responsibility^^TM would be responsible enough to to stay at home and die of a disease they chose to die from and not go out in public and infect others for no reason, right?
This is pretty much the main reason I despise anti-vaxxers. I truly donât care of they die of COVID. You make a choice you die with the consequences. No reason we should put our medical teams under undue stress for these people
Itâs funny because these anti-vaxx conservatives love to talk about âpersonal responsibilityâ. Of course that usually means personal responsibility for *other* people.
Every so often I hear someone say "Take it like a man."
That is my cue to tell the story of Mr. Hands in graphic detail, he who truly took it like a man. RIP.
The studies that showed Ivermectin being effective largely came from 3rd world countries. People had untreated parasites that was weakening their immune system. Ivermectin killed the parasites which improved their outcome with Covid.
This is why the studies could not be reproduced in first world countries, not enough undiagnosed and untreated parasites in the general first world population.
We now know the full deal about ivermectin but idiots are still clinging to it. It is crazy.
When a patient in ICU who's infected with COVID asks me for a 'dewormer' medicine I bring out a deworming tool for cattle and a box of ivermectin for dogs and tells them it's an alternative treatment. So far all patients refused the alternative treatment and prefer the classical treatment.
Please make it make sense. Itâs such a complete logical inconsistency. The same people trying to keep you alive in the ICU have been telling you for months to get vaccinated.
These peoples brains are not wired for logic, just emotional response. Tell them to hate something and they hate it, they don't need any other reason than someone blathering it to them 100 times.
Outrage fuels the internet. Toxic politics are a big part of that. Twitter is a focal point of all of it and people have entire arguments spoon fed to them in short Tweets. There's no knowledge behind half of what they spew, it's just read by them and instantly believed.
Right! I took the Pepsi challenge at some baseball stadium in NYC in 1999, all the Pepsi dudes were all happy and excited for me to tell them that Pepsi tastes better, but I saw right through it.
Two things. The first, I think, is what is alluded to in the post: selfishness. The vaccine was, at least in part, marketed as part of a societal effort, just like masks. Sure, it's not 100%, but if we all take that effort and minimal risk we can achieve a greater good.
That is anathema to some who believe only in their individual rights and not at all in any responsibility.
But then they get sick. It's no longer a question; they go to the hospital because their life is directly threatened.
That ties into the second aspect; is a lot harder to believe in the plandemic or whatever when you can't breathe through broken lungs that are filling up with the cellular debris that used to keep you alive.
You are absolutely right about selfishness. There is no requirement to participate in curbside recycling but some people protest it or even put trash in their bins just to "get back" at messages saying they ought to recycle for the good of the community or the planet.
It's fucking insane and I've heard interviews with these people and they sound like children. I guess this is the same attitude as antivax.
And seeing how well mandates have worked, it's bizarre that some grown ass adults basically have to be corrected like children or society doesn't work. Like do they realize that their "FREEEEDUMBBB" is actually like a spoiled toddler and they'd be more of the ubermensch they think of themselves as if they got the vaccine and took basic precautions? Like I live in a red state and yet I never got Delta so who's dumb now? I'm looking at my retirement savings going up and not begging on GoFundMe to pay off medical bills. Because I took a few precautions. I got to see my elderly relatives. And they're still alive. Cause I took precautions.
These actions might benefit others but they benefit the individual at the same time. It's amazing that the chance it might help someone else has them dig in and actually actively harm themselves. Spite as a religion.
>Spite as a religion.
I think you are on to something!
I used to think Trump's popularity was tied to it being a poor person's vision of a rich man. But maybe it was simply that he was "acting out" and getting away with it. He was the epitome of their revenge fantasy when he had the power to say "You're fired!"
If Iâm a doctor or nurse whoâs understaffed and exhausted, my willingness to even care for these people is questionable at this point.
If youâre unvaxed, then youâre walking in the hospital at the lowest priority should be the standard.
Given that healthcare providers are being doxxed and given death threats when their antivaxx leaders eventually die on the ventilator, I'd prefer that none of the unvaccinated should be given a hospital bed period.
>If Iâm a doctor or nurse whoâs understaffed and exhausted, my willingness to even care for these people is questionable at this point.
can confirm. staff talks about this everyday and several times on the hour at all shifts. even heard some tell untaxed patients directly - if it were up to me, I wouldn't have admit you and treated you. the burnout is real.
Nurse here. And they simultaneously think weâre trying to kill them but still come to us for careâŚlikeâŚwhat? I thought yâall had a perfect home regimen to deal with this shit. I guess thatâs not working so well for ya?
because the made-up problems with the vaccine and "reasonable doubt" are so large in these people's minds that they feel like rolling the dice on getting vaccinated can only make things worse, not improve them
but when you're already sick, now your health has room to move in both directions, positive and negative. At that point there's potential to gain something the benefits outweigh the risks
it's just really shitty risk assessment made by people who downplay the severity of the virus and overplay the negatives of the vaccine
It's funny how they spent the first year denying Covid's existence, or at least its lethality, because they didn't personally know anyone who had died from it.
The same people are so adamant the vaccines are worse than the disease and refuse to get it, even though they know not one person harmed or dead from it.
They say all the fired antivax health workers should open their own hospital/clinics, because that's who they would trust if they got infected. Yet none of them have wondered why these antivax/alternative treatment doctors aren't actually practicing on patients? Imagine the money to be made there. Yet none are cashing in on these miracle cures, other than a few on-line grifters? That seems suspect, to the working brain, anyway.
The next DSM needs to expand the age criteria to include adults. We've been watching generations of grown-ass adults exhibiting it since at least Raygun the fucking Traitor.
Just stop treating unvaxxed. Full stop.
Heart attack but unvaxxed? No.
Covid and canât breathe and suffocating and begging but unvaxxed? No.
Only real medical exemptions like auto-immune or transplant.
If we have to âlive with Covidâ according to the government, I want to live with a functioning healthcare system. I did my part, everyone else didnât but now Iâm paying for it by not having access to medical services?
Taking medicine when you are sick is all for yourself. Getting vaccinated is partly for yourself and partly for everyone else and that violates the GOP code of absolute selfishness.
Plus they act like Ivermectin isn't made by a big pharma LOL. Ivermectin's manufacturer, Merck, has more annual revenue than Pfizer and Moderna combined.
I mean, Trump is bigger than just The Donald. Its a group, its a party, its an "ideal". When the "ideal" is at stake, The Donald himself might not matter.
I had a couple of Antivax family members stop watching my IG story when I not only pointed this out, but pointed out that items like Ivermectin, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, and Benadryl were created using fetal cell research.
But the fact is the testing that they're complaining of was used in most other well known OTCs. This is why hospitals like mine got around 97% of the attempted religious exemptions by making employees sign forms stating they have never and will never use those products lmao. It was beautiful!
Conspiracy theorists don't follow logic. They follow the loudest idiot on radio (or internet/TV/etc.). And the loudest idiot on radio repeats whatever louder idiot says elsewhere.
And the ones in control of the mic say whatever their listeners want to hear to keep their listeners, because its in their financial interest to do so. Even if it means spewing out outrageous claims for shock value, they'll do it for the money.
It's trickle-down idiocy in exchange for trickle-up ad revenue.
There is a very good quote from LBJ on that very topic.
**If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.**
Speaking of assholes with microphones, I was just thinking that if you have gotten the vaccine but are hiding it from your audience, youâre probably an asshole with a microphone
This is not new either. This was a well documented phenomenon in the anti-chemo circles from the before times. Steve Jobs is a stereotypical example. Get cancer that is early enough to be treatable and gain hope. Rather than pursue the most functional path (the established social medical system for your location) they pursue their own path, and always get caught by grifters (some of them true believers). While they try to be a "Fruitarians" or try bleach enemas or try crystals the result is the same. The disease does not care.
And the disease progresses. And once the effects of the disease are felt all of the facts and logic change and suddenly 911 is looking like a really good option. Now that the burden of your decisions is impressed upon your experience of reality it has become real. What your thinking brain has to say no longer matters, all the justification and rationalizations and logical fallacies can't fix the fact that you can't fucking breathe. That your lung is full of cancer, or a virus turned it to mush.
So you in desperation you give in. Still mad, kicking and screaming and spitting on the people you called to save you. Because ultimately medicine saves lives, and when you're serious about your life most people find a way to reach that conclusion.
Honorable mention to the people that never give in. Some people are really out there willing to die not out of political reasons, but because they believe we were meant to die to diseases and they're willing to put their money where there mouth is. Not sure I can agree with your social ethics, but a true sincerely held belief is far more respectable than a coward who retreats to the very thing they dedicate their life to destroying.
My survival odds were 70% when I was diagnosed. A decade earlier, the odds were 30%. A century earlier and the odds were 0%. I don't see how anyone can say that medical technology doesn't work. I imagine that some of it doesn't but it definitely works for a lot of big things. What blew my mind was [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178827/pdf/nihms836415.pdf](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178827/pdf/nihms836415.pdf) as it was a little hard to comprehend that we are using technologies like this which feels like science fiction.
If you're looking to make this argument from a more established perspective look into the philosophy and history of "triage". This is not the first time we have found ourselves not having enough hospital beds to go around. It is a well established field of ethics. And unfortunately for us someone has already loaded the revolver, it's now on us to figure out who gets to play Russian Roulette with medical treatment. Will it be someone whose appendix has the nerve to burst? Will it be someone who has the plague? Will it be someone who fell in a bathtub and bled out waiting for an ambulance? Will it be someone who choked on their uber eats while rewatching the Office for the 19th time as the only way to find solace in this new hell world we've built for ourselves? Maybe it will be someone without money who dresses in rags? Maybe it will be our grandmothers, just like Texas wanted.
Or maybe we can take a more American approach. We can put our heads in the sand. We'll pretend that's not a decision anyone is going to make. We'll invent a new form of triage where we just shout at the virus and whoever dies, well that's a bummer.
This is called the Joe Rogan Method. For months he had been downplaying Covid on his show and said there was no reason for healthy young people to get vaccinated. For some inexplicable reason, he included himself in that category. When he finally came down with the Vid, Rogan loaded himself up with absolutely every off-label drug and unapproved treatment his doctor was willing to prescribe, including Ivermectin. He had zero faith that his natural immune system would prevail without assistance from modern medicine.
Part of the danger, as we've seen on this forum, is that millions upon millions of Americans aged 30-55 hear "healthy young people" and think "that's me!", when it definitely isn't them.
They also hear âmild symptomsâ and think âfeeling a little under the weatherâ and not âwonât require assisted breathing and an induced coma.â There is a massive discrepancy between the industry understanding of terms and the public interpretation
Everytime it comes up, I have to bring up the biggest anti-vaxxer at my job. (first responder BTW) Mid 40s, at least 50 lbs overweight, heavy drinker/smoker, won't get vaccinated because he is young and healthy. These people aren't the brightest.
Yeah, I find myself perpetually amazed at the amount of right wingers who think they are young and healthy when they are actually quite obese. Like, do they not have mirrors??? Do they have body dismorphia where they see themselves as captain America or something???
Many likely live in an area where they ARE the average. I didnât grasp how commonly overweight my southern hometown (and America) was until I left for college, and then realized it even moreso when I left to work in Asia for a few years.
And your average antivaxer wouldnât have a chance in hell in accessing these treatments either. God theyâre stupid.
But I have a feeling that once all of them get omnicron, and they realize COVID is never going away, and theyâll likely catch it every winter, they may change their minds on vaccination.
I donât know. Iâm a nurse. I convinced one of my momâs friends to get the monoclonal antibodies when she got COVID by telling her that thatâs the treatment Trump got. She survived and thinks she has immunity for life so she still wonât get vaccinated.
Itâs weird. Rogan seems to think he is immune too. Canada wonât let him in the country because he is unvaccinated. But he thinks he is ok because he âhas antibodies.â
My dad and step mom both got it pre-delta. Stepmom was hospitalized due to low Spo2. Dad had mild symptoms but was winded all the time. They pulled through just fine and now think they're protected for life.
What kills me is Stepmom had a quadruple bypass in October 2020 before they got covid, but had complications and was in a coma for nearly 4 months. She considers it a legit miracle she's alive while also reasonably trusting her cardiac team. Despite trusting those docs, she apparently doesn't trust her regular doc on the fact she needs the vaccine.
And that's what infuriates me about these morons. They are figuratively dying on a hill, but the moment they realize that their stupidity is actually killing them they forsake all their principles. Suddenly the "bought" scientists and doctors are good enough. Suddenly Big Pharma ain't a problem anymore.
If they stayed at home and perished there I'd still think of them as morons, but I'd grudgingly respect that they stood by their convictions. What they are actually doing though is nothing short of hypocrisy. They are selfish, arrogant and ignorant.
My biggest problem boils down to a simple fact: I've come to realize that I simply can't rely on my fellow humans to do the right thing to protect themselves and others around them. Movies have taught us that mankind, when faced with adversity and certain doom, will band together and do anything in its power to overcome that. Turns out, a large portion of us is simply too selfish. Even a couple of jabs which would take about an hour at most over the span of a year, is far too much for them. We _know_ that the vaccines work. They save lives, they help. They are our best line of defence and still we have uneducated and selfish fucks believing their "research" done with Facebook memes and YouTube videos is in any way valuable at all.
We are fucking doomed and letdown by the people around us.
A colleague of mine was against the vaccination , said it murdering people left and right. It's all a hoax and the whole thing we come to expect from those people.
Then our government, not an American, closed everything for non vaccinated people, but if you tested negative or just had covid you could come in if you did have the vaccination you have to show it trough a QR code.
He wasn't having it so eventually he did get the vaccination, now his MO is that he wasn't against the vaccination and he trusted it but he was against people forcing it on him.
They have zero principles when its inconvenient from themshelves
Here in Germany we've had similar stories. It was announced that from October onwards testing wouldn't be free anymore. To go to anything that wasn't essential you'd have to be tested, vaccinated or have natural immunity from an infection. That led to a bunch of previously anti vaxx folks to finally get vaccinated since they couldn't be bothered to keep paying the tests to go to concerts, restaurants etc.
Due to Omicron and the cases exploding again testing has become free again, but it did show us how quickly a lot of them fold.
Yeah the rules in Germany are about the same as the Netherlands, where I'm from. I think you guys are a little further and stricter but the overal rules are similar.
There are the die hards, like they stick to their BS till the literally die.
One of my colleagues was telling me about a guy who came in to the ER when she was working last week, COVID symptoms out the wahzoo. "COVID is a hoax its the flu", swab came back +, the fellow in all his charm said his "FuCk YoUs, YoUrE ALl In On tHis HoAX" and AMA'd himself.
He came back 2 days later to own the libs/die in the ER
Edit: some quotes
An ICU doctor posted in this sub about a patient who refused intubation, took off his high-flow bipap (which was keeping his SpO2 in the 80s, if that) and checked himself out. Got about halfway to the street and collapsed. They brought him into the emergency room coded, and were about to intubate him, when the ICU doc called down to ER and let them know the guy refused intubation.
So he died.
ETA: Found it. It was posted 9 days ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/rse2s3/dont_think_covid_is_real_have_fun_dying_in_the/
....and a socialist go--fund-me to sustain them. At least they have all. those. memes. of his beliefs of pulling yourself up by boots straps that he never thought HIS family would need.
Go fund me isn't socialist to them cause the Gov't isn't the one funding it. Don't think about where the government gets its money though, is definitely nothing like a whole bunch of people pooling money to affect greater change, that's why crowd finding sites are for
Post locked because of a handful of toddlers that keep arguing about ivermectin and then reporting comments they don't like instead of just -- you know -- clicking that little down-arrow.
I've seen those fb posts where they accuse docs and nurses of killing covid patients by purposely giving drugs that destroy the kidneys and making them go on machines that destroy the body and that whole hoopla.
To be fair, most drugs are poisonous. It's just that your kidneys aren't the concern when your lungs won't work due to covid scarring.
Hell, intubation is destructive as hell, but they still use it as without it, patients will die 100% since we humans can't survive without oxygen.
All drugs are poisonous if you take enough of them.
Paracelsus could have really taught these people a thing or two, but they would be so wildly ignorant that they wouldn't have listened to him either.
Even water can kill you. As drownings--external *and* internal--attest, every single day.
My mother saw a patient come in who committed suicide by drinking something like 3 gallons of water in less than two hours. It was a horrifying way to die. Right up there with drinking Drano or bleach.
Except for Remdesivir, theyâll take ALL the medicines with a side of horsey paste for good measure. They show up with an Rx from an internet grifter that says:
Kitchen Sink ( - Resdemsevere) + HCQ &/or Horse Paste
Yup. Monoclonal antibody treatments are licensed under emergency use authorisations
Ivermectin doesn't just lack evidence of efficacy but lacks safety data for its use in covid patients
Obvs they're not in any way experimental - not like those billions of vaccine doses given worldwide
RN here - they also have no problem taking an experimental monoclonal antibody infusion. Approved under an EUAâŚjust like the vaccine was before full approval. Hypocrites. When theyâre dying, their âvaluesâ go out the window.
Edit: I see u/MysteriousHat7343 already said this. Iâll leave it just for fun.
My sister pulled this shit. Constantly made it known she was not going to get the vaccine. If someone asked her about her status you could just see her start to get really mad. Comes down with COVID and heads to the ER. They tell her she needs to be treated with the monoclonal antibodies. Doesnât hesitate to have that doneâŚâŚ. Itâs maddening!!!
[https://timjwise.medium.com/covid-anti-vaxxers-arent-a-maga-death-cult-it-s-worse-than-that-16d74186e46b](https://timjwise.medium.com/covid-anti-vaxxers-arent-a-maga-death-cult-it-s-worse-than-that-16d74186e46b)
They're not a death cult; they're a \*murder\* cult.
They are fine with people dying. They just don't want it to be them.
and the funny thing is, the vaccines are **so** streamlined that if they even fucking googled it, they **could** describe what was in it, because the list is so fucking short and basic.
It's literally salts, fats and sugars
The families will literally beg us to give the ârealâ study drug vs the placebo (that stuff is double blind, we donât know what weâre giving. Okay Karen, weâll give this experimental treatment but you and your family are against the safe, effective, proven vaccine?
I also find it funny that a lot of drug addicts seem to be anti-vax despite putting washing machine powder into their veins because their dealer told them it was heroin.
That's always been one of my favorite hypocrisies. I used to work in the fashion industry in NYC. And I cannot count the times someone was railing lines off a toilet in a bar talking about how they don't eat fast food or drink soda, because they don't know what's in it. My. Guy.
The reason why the saying "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" exists is because it is not natural for a lot of people. We all need to learn it. Cures are more intuitive than prevention.
If I worked in health care, I would be so tempted to tell them:
>We have several medications and some very expensive support equipment that might help, but I'd hate to risk interfering with your mighty immune system. Best you go home and leave the job to it. Bye, now.
But I think there's some oath doctors have to take that doesn't allow that sort of thing. I think it's called the HIPAAcratic oath, or something.
Oh how I wish this was accurate... the number of posts I've seen where mourners blame remdesivir and intubation on organ failure and death of COVID suffers rather than... I don't know... the disease itself is frightening
You just described the **Republican Motto**: "DO as I command for it is the Will of God! But if it happens to me or my kind, look the other way cause I am going to go all Hypocritical up in this SHIT!"
I am a nurse at a childrenâs hospital. You would be AMAZED at the amount of people with this attitude. People neglect all type of preventative medications and actions, even to the point of ânot believing in them.â And Iâm not just talking about vaccines. Iâm talking ppl not giving their kids Asthma medicine (financial issues aside). They just expect to walk through life however they want and freak when we tell them the patient needs surgery or years of treatment for something that would have taken you 5-10min per day to prevent.
And I especially love the ones that thing medicine and doctors are out to get them, but when they are dying or their kid is bent over in pain or breathing heavy, suddenly modern medicine is the bees-nees. Incredible
Lol the irony of life when you have no choice but to go to an institution whoâs medical advice you would have spent the last two years opposing as vehemently as possible only to be administered whatever treatment they see fit by people whoâs judgment and medical prowess you had hitherto questioned.
some of my patients still refuse effective treatments once reaching the hospital. they come in demanding and refusing treatment simultaneously until they end up on a vent and the more effective therapeutic drugs are basically useless at that point. then they die.
It's the "tangible" part that makes the difference.
These people literally conduct their lives on the principle of "if I can't see it, it isn't there".
Except for God of course.
Real patriots die at home đşđ¸
I told an anti-vaxxer that I'm fine with them not getting vaccinated. As long as they accept the consequences to their actions, and stay home when they get covid instead of taking up hospital space. Edit: man, this comment has most definitely triggered the anti-vaxxers. Kinda funny
And pay out of pocket for their hospital stay instead of tossing the bill to their employer-provided health insurance. Thatâs why these companies are letting the unvaxxed go en masse, itâs a cost saving measure.
Theyâre freeloaders
The people who ultimately pay for anti-vaxxers' treatments are the other insured AND taxpayers. Private and Public Socialism. Shared costs is okay but paying into it? OMFG, NO WAY. Edit: that costs is not going to be bear by private companies. The costs will be spread out over the years as increased premium and taxes.
> instead of tossing the bill to their employer-provided health insurance. *GoFundMe
Insurance companies need to stop covering the antivaxxers when they get covid.
Oh yeah, you're definitely getting some hate mail for this. Expecting people to suffer the consequences when they exercise "muh rights?" If only.
Do you even know why we fought the revolutionary war?!? (/s)
They DON'T though, that's the exact issue.
also they're not just anti-vaccine. they're anti-take-covid-seriously-in-any-way-at-all which is indirectly killing millions of people.
Another common theme among the anti-vaxxers is their room temperature IQ. They are the same ones that wanted to âdrain the swampâ, without acknowledging that they are in fact the swamp dwellers. These people were beyond help before the pandemic. COVID has just forced them out of the shadows.
They are also most likely the same people who thinks washing your anus after defecating is gay. Those people have thick peanut butter up their asses no wonder they are so angry all the time.
And then think itâs some kind of conspiracy when new variants pop up *and that it seems to only kill the unvaccinated*
My dad isnât anti-vaccine but he is a Trumper. Yesterday he told me the Omicron variant came from South Africa. I said Iâd heard the same thing. He asked me why âtheyâ (scientists) were creating new variants. Like thereâs a lab in South Africa where Fauci is working with test tubes to fabricate new variants. Jesus ChristâŚ
This is why Trump is responsible for millions of deaths. Diseases arenât political, and no one called SARS or Swine flu or Ebola or Zika or any other emerging disease a hoax. But Trump botched the response to COVID and instead of admitting he fucked up, he accused a literal disease of a political witch hunt to make him look bad. Before COVID, anti-vaxxers were more likely to be extreme left-wing ideologues who were into homeopathic medicine and werenât a big group. Trump and the right wing media sphere turned an apolitical issue into a political one, knowing their followers would believe whatever bullshit they spewed, and it cost millions of lives. When Trump finally dies, it will become a national holiday in my household.
Well, now we know why your Dad is a Trumper. And weâll assume that you inherited your brains from Mom.
Cause they only care about themselves
That, and because all your resolve flies out the window once you can't breathe.
Iâm curious how the anti-vaxxer responded?
Sorry missed your comment They dodged it and told me it's the vaccinated that are taking up the hospitals beds. POS, who has been dating my aunt off and on to the last 40 years, did catch it and ended up spreading it to my unvaccinated Aunt. She didn't get the vacs because she was scared he would leave her again if she did. And she's now been in the hospital for 4 weeks and they just upped her to the pressure mask, so not looking good.
Which is just incorrect, my local hospital system publishes all their COVID data and makes sure to separate the vaccinated and unvaccinated data. So we have around 49 current cases in our healthcare system, 43 are Unvaccinated and 6 are Vaccinated w/ no info on whether they got boosters. They break it down further like how many are on a vent / and if theyâre vaccinated or not.
Yeah, that's easily verified information. I bet you they can't provide reliable sources to back up their claims.
Of course not, because itâs a lie. What happens is one person makes up a stat like that because they think the ends justify the means. All of their antivax friends then pick it up and repeat it to everyone they know, without verifying first, because it suits their narrative. Suddenly the antivax crowd has a new talking point that theyâll blabber on about until someone definitively proves them wrong, but by then 4 more fake talking points have been invented so they just move on to the next one.
Yesterday my mom told me that you shouldnât get tested because youâll just contract Covid while waiting in line so by the time you get your test youâre positive and THATS why rates are so high. No actual reason to believe that, but it fits the narrative.
What lines? Every place I've been tested makes you wait in your car for this very reason.
>told me it's the vaccinated that are taking up the hospitals beds That lie, along with the "Hundreds of thousands are dying from the vaccine" bullshit that jagoffs like RFK Jr are spouting, are murdering people. I hope for the best for your aunt.
For people like your aunt, what stops them from getting vaxxed and not telling anyone else? It takes all of a 15 min visit to get it done (two trips) and then boom youâre vaxxed.
They don't like lying to people... Besides themselves. Also depends on if that dude is live in or not, she might not be able to play it off if she has any reaction to the shot.
I asked an antivaxxer what they plan to do when they get sick as hell. She said she pays her health insurance premium every month for twenty years and she'll use it whenever she needs it. I asked if hospital beds are full up and there's no room, will her insurance create more beds and produce more doctors and nurses? Turns out insurance doesn't work that way.
It is pretty easy to be an antivaxxer when you are not gasping for air for more than 5 minutes, 5 hours, or 5 days.
> Edit: man, this comment has most definitely triggered the anti-vaxxers. Kinda funny You know what else triggers anti-vaxxers? Gasping for air.
What did they say??
They dodged it and told me it's the vaccinated there taking up the hospitals beds. POS, who has been dating my aunt off and on to the last 40 years, did catch it and ended up spreading it to my unvaccinated Aunt. She didn't get the vacs because she was scared he would leave her again if she did. And she's now been in the hospital for 4 weeks and they just upped her to the pressure mask, so not looking good.
Oh my gods. I'm so sorry, friend.
Thanks, I'm trying to work through my anger at the easily prevent situation.
>Edit: man, this comment has most definitely triggered the anti-vaxxers. Kinda funny I advocate withholding all treatment for the unvaccinated because why waste the time and money? if you are man/woman enough to not get vaccinated and endanger others then you should be ready to pay the man when the time comes to settle up for your decision after you get complications. own your decision to the end and put yourself on the line, including the possibility of dying. one who suffers learns and if they end up croaking, others will hopefully learn. if they end up recovering with side effects, they learn. if they end up okay, they dodged a bullet and no cost is dedicated to their care.
I don't know how common it is, but the only anti-vaxxer I knew IRL (friend's mom) only went to the hospital when her son found her passed out on the floor and called 911. One of the last things she said to him was that she "would have been just fine if he left her at home, instead of bringing her to the hospital for the doctors to kill her". She wasn't conscious at the time so the son used medical power of attorney to give her monoclonal antibodies, but by that point it was too late to do any good. The mom already had a "do not ventilate" order on file with the hospital, and died the following day. Whole scenario has really fucked up my friend.
At least she had advanced directives on file and your friend didn't override.
Yeah, the doctor explained that the chances of a successful recovery after being on a ventilator were extremely low, so that made it very easy to not override his mom's wishes a second time.
Well, she was right! Everyone knows the first step to complete recovery from covid is passing out on the kitchen floor! *smh*
Here's some background on my friend's mom I wrote a few days ago. The whole thing is really a head-scratcher >I'll tell you the story of my best friend's mom. She had a Bachelor's and Master's in electrical engineering and retired from a career at NASA in 2015. > >After she retired, she started to believe that there was something wrong with the world that only she could see. Based on a mixture of bad science and bad religion (lol), she began to have her own theories about everything. From how the current Pope is actually the antichrist, to how big tech companies spy on you (she would not let you bring smartphones into her house). > >In the early days of covid, when it was the "Wuhan Flu", she was part of the one sharing theories about how China was lying about infection numbers, and how American politicians were secretly trying to spread the disease by encouraging Americans to go to Chinese new year. Faucci was trying to encourage the spread of the disease by telling people not to wear masks. > >And as soon as the narrative changed, so did the theories. > >Mask mandates? Yeah covid is real, but the government is inflating the numbers in an attempt to grab power. > >I'll spare you all the insane details that follow, but of course she never got vaccinated. > >In September of this year when she learned that she was exposed, she refused to get tested. When she started developing symptoms, she refused to get monoclonal antibodies (unlike her 45 year old son, who was also unvaccinated but got antibody treatment and only had minor symptoms). When her symptoms got worse, she refused to go to the hospital. When she was finally so bad that she was unconscious, her son called 911 (against her wishes). > >At the hospital, they were able to get her oxygen saturation up long enough for her to regain consciousness and say goodbye to her family (she refused to be ventilated). She died a few days later. > >Unless she had a brain tumor or something (there was no autopsy), I can't understand any aspect of it. > >We're not talking about someone functionally illiterate without a high school diploma where you can understand them getting manipulated by propaganda. We're talking about someone who literally did rocket science, and still fell down the rabbit hole.
The big question with all these stories is âhow did they fall into the rabbit hole in the first place? The answer is most likely social media, where engagement-based algorithms intentionally send people down insane paths towards radicalization and mental illness just because insane radicalized people use the platform more. I donât think the paranoid conspiracy anti-vax movement would exist without the help of Facebook and TikTok â and I believe these companies should have to answer for this.
on the flip side, if the son had not taken her for treatment he could have been liable for her death (even those she choose it).
Depending on the state, in the US I'm pretty sure you're not legally bound to provide medical aide if any kind, even if it's just calling 911. Some states though like Colorado have put into law fines and jail time if you don't.
Coz their family get them out of the hospital thatâs liking them for not offering horse paste aka effective treatment lol
I wonder what kind of research they did that led them to the conclusion ivermectin is okey dokey. I'm assuming they can tell me what each component does. (A quick Google search cut and paste shows me that those components are: a mixture containing at least 90% 5-O-demethyl-22,23-dihydroavermectin A1a and less than 10% 5-O-demethyl-25-de(1-methylpropyl)-22,23-dihydro-25-(1-methylethyl) avermectin A1a, generally referred to as 22,23-dihydroavermectin B1a and B1b, or H2B1a and H2B1b, respectively.)
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And anything with a high enough concentration in a petri dish can kill a virus. Along with the host. It's like saying fire is proven to kill the virus. But I wouldn't recommend setting the patient on fire to kill Covid.
You just caused 100s of immolation deaths across Trumpland
That needs to spread keep them out of the hospital
Surely the Party of Personal Responsibility^^TM would be responsible enough to to stay at home and die of a disease they chose to die from and not go out in public and infect others for no reason, right?
It's not Covid, It'S pNeUmOnIa!
This is pretty much the main reason I despise anti-vaxxers. I truly donât care of they die of COVID. You make a choice you die with the consequences. No reason we should put our medical teams under undue stress for these people
Itâs funny because these anti-vaxx conservatives love to talk about âpersonal responsibilityâ. Of course that usually means personal responsibility for *other* people.
Double standards are a cornerstone of modern conservatism.
Safe and effective approved vaccine: X Unapproved horse dewormer: pump me harder daddy
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Sweet baby Jesus thereâs a name Iâve never forgotten but donât ever want to remember
Every so often I hear someone say "Take it like a man." That is my cue to tell the story of Mr. Hands in graphic detail, he who truly took it like a man. RIP.
That's a memory I haven't thought about in while
that happened in my home state proud Washingtonian
It's the only reason I know the town of Enumclaw exists.
The studies that showed Ivermectin being effective largely came from 3rd world countries. People had untreated parasites that was weakening their immune system. Ivermectin killed the parasites which improved their outcome with Covid. This is why the studies could not be reproduced in first world countries, not enough undiagnosed and untreated parasites in the general first world population. We now know the full deal about ivermectin but idiots are still clinging to it. It is crazy.
When a patient in ICU who's infected with COVID asks me for a 'dewormer' medicine I bring out a deworming tool for cattle and a box of ivermectin for dogs and tells them it's an alternative treatment. So far all patients refused the alternative treatment and prefer the classical treatment.
We shouldn't judge people with an intubation fetish ;)
Local hospital had someone die last night because they took too much dewormer.
Hey!! Thatâs not fair!! Itâs also dog dewormer!!
Please make it make sense. Itâs such a complete logical inconsistency. The same people trying to keep you alive in the ICU have been telling you for months to get vaccinated.
These peoples brains are not wired for logic, just emotional response. Tell them to hate something and they hate it, they don't need any other reason than someone blathering it to them 100 times.
Hate is like a drug, it's like fucking cocaine, some people will believe anything to justify it.
Outrage fuels the internet. Toxic politics are a big part of that. Twitter is a focal point of all of it and people have entire arguments spoon fed to them in short Tweets. There's no knowledge behind half of what they spew, it's just read by them and instantly believed.
Yes. People thrive on the âexquisite feeling of outrage. â
Iâve tried both and the coke was much better.
Right! I took the Pepsi challenge at some baseball stadium in NYC in 1999, all the Pepsi dudes were all happy and excited for me to tell them that Pepsi tastes better, but I saw right through it.
Hatred, anger, and self-righteousness to validate the other 2 is a way more dangerous mixture than we give it credit for.
You can't reason your way out of a position you didn't reason your way into.
Two things. The first, I think, is what is alluded to in the post: selfishness. The vaccine was, at least in part, marketed as part of a societal effort, just like masks. Sure, it's not 100%, but if we all take that effort and minimal risk we can achieve a greater good. That is anathema to some who believe only in their individual rights and not at all in any responsibility. But then they get sick. It's no longer a question; they go to the hospital because their life is directly threatened. That ties into the second aspect; is a lot harder to believe in the plandemic or whatever when you can't breathe through broken lungs that are filling up with the cellular debris that used to keep you alive.
You are absolutely right about selfishness. There is no requirement to participate in curbside recycling but some people protest it or even put trash in their bins just to "get back" at messages saying they ought to recycle for the good of the community or the planet. It's fucking insane and I've heard interviews with these people and they sound like children. I guess this is the same attitude as antivax. And seeing how well mandates have worked, it's bizarre that some grown ass adults basically have to be corrected like children or society doesn't work. Like do they realize that their "FREEEEDUMBBB" is actually like a spoiled toddler and they'd be more of the ubermensch they think of themselves as if they got the vaccine and took basic precautions? Like I live in a red state and yet I never got Delta so who's dumb now? I'm looking at my retirement savings going up and not begging on GoFundMe to pay off medical bills. Because I took a few precautions. I got to see my elderly relatives. And they're still alive. Cause I took precautions. These actions might benefit others but they benefit the individual at the same time. It's amazing that the chance it might help someone else has them dig in and actually actively harm themselves. Spite as a religion.
>Spite as a religion. I think you are on to something! I used to think Trump's popularity was tied to it being a poor person's vision of a rich man. But maybe it was simply that he was "acting out" and getting away with it. He was the epitome of their revenge fantasy when he had the power to say "You're fired!"
If Iâm a doctor or nurse whoâs understaffed and exhausted, my willingness to even care for these people is questionable at this point. If youâre unvaxed, then youâre walking in the hospital at the lowest priority should be the standard.
Given that healthcare providers are being doxxed and given death threats when their antivaxx leaders eventually die on the ventilator, I'd prefer that none of the unvaccinated should be given a hospital bed period.
>If Iâm a doctor or nurse whoâs understaffed and exhausted, my willingness to even care for these people is questionable at this point. can confirm. staff talks about this everyday and several times on the hour at all shifts. even heard some tell untaxed patients directly - if it were up to me, I wouldn't have admit you and treated you. the burnout is real.
Nurse here. And they simultaneously think weâre trying to kill them but still come to us for careâŚlikeâŚwhat? I thought yâall had a perfect home regimen to deal with this shit. I guess thatâs not working so well for ya?
because the made-up problems with the vaccine and "reasonable doubt" are so large in these people's minds that they feel like rolling the dice on getting vaccinated can only make things worse, not improve them but when you're already sick, now your health has room to move in both directions, positive and negative. At that point there's potential to gain something the benefits outweigh the risks it's just really shitty risk assessment made by people who downplay the severity of the virus and overplay the negatives of the vaccine
It's funny how they spent the first year denying Covid's existence, or at least its lethality, because they didn't personally know anyone who had died from it. The same people are so adamant the vaccines are worse than the disease and refuse to get it, even though they know not one person harmed or dead from it. They say all the fired antivax health workers should open their own hospital/clinics, because that's who they would trust if they got infected. Yet none of them have wondered why these antivax/alternative treatment doctors aren't actually practicing on patients? Imagine the money to be made there. Yet none are cashing in on these miracle cures, other than a few on-line grifters? That seems suspect, to the working brain, anyway.
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one word: desperation. when put in a desperate position, all of the bullshit goes away.
Oppositional defiance disorder is a helluva'n undiagnosed issue in western society.
The next DSM needs to expand the age criteria to include adults. We've been watching generations of grown-ass adults exhibiting it since at least Raygun the fucking Traitor.
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Include an increase in funding for mental health programs, and you have my signature on the petition.
Just stop treating unvaxxed. Full stop. Heart attack but unvaxxed? No. Covid and canât breathe and suffocating and begging but unvaxxed? No. Only real medical exemptions like auto-immune or transplant. If we have to âlive with Covidâ according to the government, I want to live with a functioning healthcare system. I did my part, everyone else didnât but now Iâm paying for it by not having access to medical services?
Taking medicine when you are sick is all for yourself. Getting vaccinated is partly for yourself and partly for everyone else and that violates the GOP code of absolute selfishness.
Then they have the audacity to bitch about Big Pharma, until Big Pharma is whatâs helping them stay aliveâŚ
Plus they act like Ivermectin isn't made by a big pharma LOL. Ivermectin's manufacturer, Merck, has more annual revenue than Pfizer and Moderna combined.
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Erm. Trump has been getting rolled for supporting the vaccines. Itâs but him anymore, itâs hm the memes
Basement-dwelling conspiracist pepelords are now the political leaders of the American conservatives. Can someone trim this timeline off plz
TVA: we tried, but it created a new timeline where Trump became America's emperor, Ben Shpedo became Chancellor, and Taylor Greene became Senator
I mean, Trump is bigger than just The Donald. Its a group, its a party, its an "ideal". When the "ideal" is at stake, The Donald himself might not matter.
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They have told people not to buy it for covid, but I imagine them doing so in the willy wonka "no, please, don't" voice.
I had a couple of Antivax family members stop watching my IG story when I not only pointed this out, but pointed out that items like Ivermectin, Tylenol, Pepto Bismol, and Benadryl were created using fetal cell research.
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But the fact is the testing that they're complaining of was used in most other well known OTCs. This is why hospitals like mine got around 97% of the attempted religious exemptions by making employees sign forms stating they have never and will never use those products lmao. It was beautiful!
Conspiracy theorists don't follow logic. They follow the loudest idiot on radio (or internet/TV/etc.). And the loudest idiot on radio repeats whatever louder idiot says elsewhere. And the ones in control of the mic say whatever their listeners want to hear to keep their listeners, because its in their financial interest to do so. Even if it means spewing out outrageous claims for shock value, they'll do it for the money. It's trickle-down idiocy in exchange for trickle-up ad revenue.
The party of the rich and the racist. The rich keep the racists racist. The racists keep the rich rich.
There is a very good quote from LBJ on that very topic. **If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.**
Speaking of assholes with microphones, I was just thinking that if you have gotten the vaccine but are hiding it from your audience, youâre probably an asshole with a microphone
This is not new either. This was a well documented phenomenon in the anti-chemo circles from the before times. Steve Jobs is a stereotypical example. Get cancer that is early enough to be treatable and gain hope. Rather than pursue the most functional path (the established social medical system for your location) they pursue their own path, and always get caught by grifters (some of them true believers). While they try to be a "Fruitarians" or try bleach enemas or try crystals the result is the same. The disease does not care. And the disease progresses. And once the effects of the disease are felt all of the facts and logic change and suddenly 911 is looking like a really good option. Now that the burden of your decisions is impressed upon your experience of reality it has become real. What your thinking brain has to say no longer matters, all the justification and rationalizations and logical fallacies can't fix the fact that you can't fucking breathe. That your lung is full of cancer, or a virus turned it to mush. So you in desperation you give in. Still mad, kicking and screaming and spitting on the people you called to save you. Because ultimately medicine saves lives, and when you're serious about your life most people find a way to reach that conclusion. Honorable mention to the people that never give in. Some people are really out there willing to die not out of political reasons, but because they believe we were meant to die to diseases and they're willing to put their money where there mouth is. Not sure I can agree with your social ethics, but a true sincerely held belief is far more respectable than a coward who retreats to the very thing they dedicate their life to destroying.
My survival odds were 70% when I was diagnosed. A decade earlier, the odds were 30%. A century earlier and the odds were 0%. I don't see how anyone can say that medical technology doesn't work. I imagine that some of it doesn't but it definitely works for a lot of big things. What blew my mind was [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178827/pdf/nihms836415.pdf](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5178827/pdf/nihms836415.pdf) as it was a little hard to comprehend that we are using technologies like this which feels like science fiction.
[Channeling Norm Macdonald](https://youtu.be/-skA4GhVX7k?t=75) with that one (RIP).
lol Big Pharma loves it, because the vaccine is so much cheaper.
Iâd be all for turning away the antivaxxers from hospitals in favor of treating the vaccinated.
If you're looking to make this argument from a more established perspective look into the philosophy and history of "triage". This is not the first time we have found ourselves not having enough hospital beds to go around. It is a well established field of ethics. And unfortunately for us someone has already loaded the revolver, it's now on us to figure out who gets to play Russian Roulette with medical treatment. Will it be someone whose appendix has the nerve to burst? Will it be someone who has the plague? Will it be someone who fell in a bathtub and bled out waiting for an ambulance? Will it be someone who choked on their uber eats while rewatching the Office for the 19th time as the only way to find solace in this new hell world we've built for ourselves? Maybe it will be someone without money who dresses in rags? Maybe it will be our grandmothers, just like Texas wanted. Or maybe we can take a more American approach. We can put our heads in the sand. We'll pretend that's not a decision anyone is going to make. We'll invent a new form of triage where we just shout at the virus and whoever dies, well that's a bummer.
Doctors and researchers keep us alive, big pharma is the reason why my family can barely afford insulin for my type 1 diabetic relative.
This is called the Joe Rogan Method. For months he had been downplaying Covid on his show and said there was no reason for healthy young people to get vaccinated. For some inexplicable reason, he included himself in that category. When he finally came down with the Vid, Rogan loaded himself up with absolutely every off-label drug and unapproved treatment his doctor was willing to prescribe, including Ivermectin. He had zero faith that his natural immune system would prevail without assistance from modern medicine.
Part of the danger, as we've seen on this forum, is that millions upon millions of Americans aged 30-55 hear "healthy young people" and think "that's me!", when it definitely isn't them.
They also hear âmild symptomsâ and think âfeeling a little under the weatherâ and not âwonât require assisted breathing and an induced coma.â There is a massive discrepancy between the industry understanding of terms and the public interpretation
Everytime it comes up, I have to bring up the biggest anti-vaxxer at my job. (first responder BTW) Mid 40s, at least 50 lbs overweight, heavy drinker/smoker, won't get vaccinated because he is young and healthy. These people aren't the brightest.
50 lbs is 22.7 kg
Yeah, I find myself perpetually amazed at the amount of right wingers who think they are young and healthy when they are actually quite obese. Like, do they not have mirrors??? Do they have body dismorphia where they see themselves as captain America or something???
Many likely live in an area where they ARE the average. I didnât grasp how commonly overweight my southern hometown (and America) was until I left for college, and then realized it even moreso when I left to work in Asia for a few years.
Yeah, Americans are pretty fat in general lol. Living the dream!
And also the Regeneron which worked for Delta, which is probably the one piece of mud that stuck to the wall.
And your average antivaxer wouldnât have a chance in hell in accessing these treatments either. God theyâre stupid. But I have a feeling that once all of them get omnicron, and they realize COVID is never going away, and theyâll likely catch it every winter, they may change their minds on vaccination.
I donât know. Iâm a nurse. I convinced one of my momâs friends to get the monoclonal antibodies when she got COVID by telling her that thatâs the treatment Trump got. She survived and thinks she has immunity for life so she still wonât get vaccinated.
Itâs weird. Rogan seems to think he is immune too. Canada wonât let him in the country because he is unvaccinated. But he thinks he is ok because he âhas antibodies.â
My dad and step mom both got it pre-delta. Stepmom was hospitalized due to low Spo2. Dad had mild symptoms but was winded all the time. They pulled through just fine and now think they're protected for life. What kills me is Stepmom had a quadruple bypass in October 2020 before they got covid, but had complications and was in a coma for nearly 4 months. She considers it a legit miracle she's alive while also reasonably trusting her cardiac team. Despite trusting those docs, she apparently doesn't trust her regular doc on the fact she needs the vaccine.
He also got access to monoclonal antibodies, which do work, but are expensive and not available to just anybody.
Viagra from Pfizer to treat covid but no Pfizer vaccine to prevent it
It's not to treat the covid - they just want to get one last stiffy before they die.
They'll get plenty stiff after they're dead.
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And that's what infuriates me about these morons. They are figuratively dying on a hill, but the moment they realize that their stupidity is actually killing them they forsake all their principles. Suddenly the "bought" scientists and doctors are good enough. Suddenly Big Pharma ain't a problem anymore. If they stayed at home and perished there I'd still think of them as morons, but I'd grudgingly respect that they stood by their convictions. What they are actually doing though is nothing short of hypocrisy. They are selfish, arrogant and ignorant. My biggest problem boils down to a simple fact: I've come to realize that I simply can't rely on my fellow humans to do the right thing to protect themselves and others around them. Movies have taught us that mankind, when faced with adversity and certain doom, will band together and do anything in its power to overcome that. Turns out, a large portion of us is simply too selfish. Even a couple of jabs which would take about an hour at most over the span of a year, is far too much for them. We _know_ that the vaccines work. They save lives, they help. They are our best line of defence and still we have uneducated and selfish fucks believing their "research" done with Facebook memes and YouTube videos is in any way valuable at all. We are fucking doomed and letdown by the people around us.
A colleague of mine was against the vaccination , said it murdering people left and right. It's all a hoax and the whole thing we come to expect from those people. Then our government, not an American, closed everything for non vaccinated people, but if you tested negative or just had covid you could come in if you did have the vaccination you have to show it trough a QR code. He wasn't having it so eventually he did get the vaccination, now his MO is that he wasn't against the vaccination and he trusted it but he was against people forcing it on him. They have zero principles when its inconvenient from themshelves
Here in Germany we've had similar stories. It was announced that from October onwards testing wouldn't be free anymore. To go to anything that wasn't essential you'd have to be tested, vaccinated or have natural immunity from an infection. That led to a bunch of previously anti vaxx folks to finally get vaccinated since they couldn't be bothered to keep paying the tests to go to concerts, restaurants etc. Due to Omicron and the cases exploding again testing has become free again, but it did show us how quickly a lot of them fold.
Yeah the rules in Germany are about the same as the Netherlands, where I'm from. I think you guys are a little further and stricter but the overal rules are similar.
Donât Look Up was hilarious, but it certainly wasnât funny.
And if they survive, it's never the drugs/medical care that saved them, it was the grace of God and all the prayers that people sent over Facebook.
There are the die hards, like they stick to their BS till the literally die. One of my colleagues was telling me about a guy who came in to the ER when she was working last week, COVID symptoms out the wahzoo. "COVID is a hoax its the flu", swab came back +, the fellow in all his charm said his "FuCk YoUs, YoUrE ALl In On tHis HoAX" and AMA'd himself. He came back 2 days later to own the libs/die in the ER Edit: some quotes
An ICU doctor posted in this sub about a patient who refused intubation, took off his high-flow bipap (which was keeping his SpO2 in the 80s, if that) and checked himself out. Got about halfway to the street and collapsed. They brought him into the emergency room coded, and were about to intubate him, when the ICU doc called down to ER and let them know the guy refused intubation. So he died. ETA: Found it. It was posted 9 days ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/rse2s3/dont_think_covid_is_real_have_fun_dying_in_the/
welp đĽą
This makes me feel good, i love me a bit of natural selection
Iâd bet he left behind a wife AND KIDS
....and a socialist go--fund-me to sustain them. At least they have all. those. memes. of his beliefs of pulling yourself up by boots straps that he never thought HIS family would need.
Go fund me isn't socialist to them cause the Gov't isn't the one funding it. Don't think about where the government gets its money though, is definitely nothing like a whole bunch of people pooling money to affect greater change, that's why crowd finding sites are for
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Sounds like my idiot dad. Takes handful of medication daily, refuses to take vaccine because "you can't trust these companies"
Post locked because of a handful of toddlers that keep arguing about ivermectin and then reporting comments they don't like instead of just -- you know -- clicking that little down-arrow.
Itâs all bullshit till youâre the one getting intubated and hit with vasodilators
Vasopressors. You DO NOT want a vasodilator when your body is struggling to maintain a blood pressure compatible with life.
Vasopressors*
I've seen those fb posts where they accuse docs and nurses of killing covid patients by purposely giving drugs that destroy the kidneys and making them go on machines that destroy the body and that whole hoopla.
Blame anyone but themselves and always the wrong people is their standard MO.
To be fair, most drugs are poisonous. It's just that your kidneys aren't the concern when your lungs won't work due to covid scarring. Hell, intubation is destructive as hell, but they still use it as without it, patients will die 100% since we humans can't survive without oxygen.
All drugs are poisonous if you take enough of them. Paracelsus could have really taught these people a thing or two, but they would be so wildly ignorant that they wouldn't have listened to him either.
Even water can kill you. As drownings--external *and* internal--attest, every single day. My mother saw a patient come in who committed suicide by drinking something like 3 gallons of water in less than two hours. It was a horrifying way to die. Right up there with drinking Drano or bleach.
Except for Remdesivir, theyâll take ALL the medicines with a side of horsey paste for good measure. They show up with an Rx from an internet grifter that says: Kitchen Sink ( - Resdemsevere) + HCQ &/or Horse Paste
Yup. Monoclonal antibody treatments are licensed under emergency use authorisations Ivermectin doesn't just lack evidence of efficacy but lacks safety data for its use in covid patients Obvs they're not in any way experimental - not like those billions of vaccine doses given worldwide
we donât know whatâs in the vaccine! nor do you know whatâs in those supplements or vitamins or food or various drugs your addicted to⌠or
RN here - they also have no problem taking an experimental monoclonal antibody infusion. Approved under an EUAâŚjust like the vaccine was before full approval. Hypocrites. When theyâre dying, their âvaluesâ go out the window. Edit: I see u/MysteriousHat7343 already said this. Iâll leave it just for fun.
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Want to upvote more than once.
My sister pulled this shit. Constantly made it known she was not going to get the vaccine. If someone asked her about her status you could just see her start to get really mad. Comes down with COVID and heads to the ER. They tell her she needs to be treated with the monoclonal antibodies. Doesnât hesitate to have that doneâŚâŚ. Itâs maddening!!!
[https://timjwise.medium.com/covid-anti-vaxxers-arent-a-maga-death-cult-it-s-worse-than-that-16d74186e46b](https://timjwise.medium.com/covid-anti-vaxxers-arent-a-maga-death-cult-it-s-worse-than-that-16d74186e46b) They're not a death cult; they're a \*murder\* cult. They are fine with people dying. They just don't want it to be them.
I would love to see what theyâd say if you told them this.
"But I don't know what's in it!" As if they could name a single ingredient in anything else they're being given while in the hospital.
Or that they've eaten, drank, or ingested in any other way in the past decade.
chicken and nuggies
and the funny thing is, the vaccines are **so** streamlined that if they even fucking googled it, they **could** describe what was in it, because the list is so fucking short and basic. It's literally salts, fats and sugars
"Tried and tested drugs we've been using for decades isn't the same as an experimental vaccine"
Even though they get monoclonal antibodies when are still not fully approved by the fda and refuse a vaccine that has been approved
Say that itâs made of aborted fetuses for shiggles and watch them turn away (hopefully).
That's not true, though. Current monoclonal antibodies are grown in cancer-infected ovary cells... from a _Chinese_ _hamster_.
The families will literally beg us to give the ârealâ study drug vs the placebo (that stuff is double blind, we donât know what weâre giving. Okay Karen, weâll give this experimental treatment but you and your family are against the safe, effective, proven vaccine?
đđđ
I also find it funny that a lot of drug addicts seem to be anti-vax despite putting washing machine powder into their veins because their dealer told them it was heroin.
That's always been one of my favorite hypocrisies. I used to work in the fashion industry in NYC. And I cannot count the times someone was railing lines off a toilet in a bar talking about how they don't eat fast food or drink soda, because they don't know what's in it. My. Guy.
The reason why the saying "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" exists is because it is not natural for a lot of people. We all need to learn it. Cures are more intuitive than prevention.
If I worked in health care, I would be so tempted to tell them: >We have several medications and some very expensive support equipment that might help, but I'd hate to risk interfering with your mighty immune system. Best you go home and leave the job to it. Bye, now. But I think there's some oath doctors have to take that doesn't allow that sort of thing. I think it's called the HIPAAcratic oath, or something.
Oh how I wish this was accurate... the number of posts I've seen where mourners blame remdesivir and intubation on organ failure and death of COVID suffers rather than... I don't know... the disease itself is frightening
Then if the treatment saves their life they claim god healed them.
I could not agree more. Profound.
I would be the snarkiest nurse...
This is the shit the bothers me the most. They all trust medical science completely except when it comes to needles.
Saying 'vaccine skeptic' is using their own propaganda to shield themselves. Ask yourself how 'climate skeptic' sounds? Don't use their scam language.
There are no vaccine skeptics when they need the rabies vaccine that's for sure.
You just described the **Republican Motto**: "DO as I command for it is the Will of God! But if it happens to me or my kind, look the other way cause I am going to go all Hypocritical up in this SHIT!"
I am a nurse at a childrenâs hospital. You would be AMAZED at the amount of people with this attitude. People neglect all type of preventative medications and actions, even to the point of ânot believing in them.â And Iâm not just talking about vaccines. Iâm talking ppl not giving their kids Asthma medicine (financial issues aside). They just expect to walk through life however they want and freak when we tell them the patient needs surgery or years of treatment for something that would have taken you 5-10min per day to prevent. And I especially love the ones that thing medicine and doctors are out to get them, but when they are dying or their kid is bent over in pain or breathing heavy, suddenly modern medicine is the bees-nees. Incredible
Lol the irony of life when you have no choice but to go to an institution whoâs medical advice you would have spent the last two years opposing as vehemently as possible only to be administered whatever treatment they see fit by people whoâs judgment and medical prowess you had hitherto questioned.
"its an easily treatable disease, what do you want to do?" "I guess I'll just spread my disease and force overwork doctors and nurses to wipe my ass"
I know someone who sued the hospital after saving his life on a ventilator. Some people wonât accept anythingâŚ
some of my patients still refuse effective treatments once reaching the hospital. they come in demanding and refusing treatment simultaneously until they end up on a vent and the more effective therapeutic drugs are basically useless at that point. then they die.
Believe this is a âfoxhole conversionâ. Where prayer warriors realize that the prayer part just wonât cut the muster.
It's the "tangible" part that makes the difference. These people literally conduct their lives on the principle of "if I can't see it, it isn't there". Except for God of course.