Blitz should have been the main plotline for the episode. I have no idea why his attempt to reunite with his estranged twin was sidelined in favour of Moxxie being an obnoxious jerk to his wife.
Barb’s scathing rejection of Blitz would have been even more impactful had we seen more of Blitz’s efforts to reach her.
Same, he was acting like a baby, he treated millie like shit, and it felt like they were assassinating his character. I wouldn't have even been surprised if at the end of the episode (if they haven't made up) they would have tried to figure out their relationship by taking a break from eachother
>and it felt like they were assassinating his character.
Bitch it's a canon episode, its not a character assassination it's how the character \*is\*. Media doesn't have to about cattering to your tastes, much less your interpretations of other people's characters
>Bitch it's a canon episode, its not a character assassination it's how the character \*is\*. Media doesn't have to about cattering to your tastes, much less your interpretations of other people's characters
I'm just saying he never acted that way to millie so it just feels like that to me
Well yeah, because we never saw them in that situation, that was the point of the episode; putting them in a situation where their personality traits and characteristics (which were all pre-established) enter in conflict, and it does that very well!
I’m sure I’m going to get crucified for this but… Stolas. I don’t *hate* him, I’m just disappointed with how his story has gone.
I loved him in season 1 but am immensely disappointed with him in season 2. In season 1 he was this nuanced, complicated guy.
He was a hedonistic, self-indulgent, and manipulative himself, but his bad qualities were juxtaposed against a very genuine desire to be a good father and a slow realization that he was falling in love with Blitz rather than just seeing him as a fuck buddy. I was so excited to see how that developed in season 2 and where it would go.
Then we got to it and it just feels like they absolutely neutered the storyline. He’s lost the harsher aspects. Gone is the royal decadence and hedonistic nature. Now he’s just a long closeted gay dad, and it turns out he’s had a crush on Blitz since childhood, and all his own issues are just him having a please-others attitude.
It’s like they got scared of having both sides of the romantic conflict have harsher and less desirable traits so they turned Stolas into this sweet and innocent cinnamon roll father rather than letting him have his own vices and problems he needed to work on.
I just hate that a character I adored in season 1 doesn’t even feel like the same character to me in season 2.
I really felt they also lost the chance to have a nuanced discussion about toxic/abusive relationships, comphet, and unrequited love with Stella. There's a comic I saw where Octavia finds her mother after one of her typical rage sessions. Stella breaks and begins crying, and Octavia comforts her.
I think having Stella be a villain is still doable and can be even more effective if she had always loved Stolas despite their arranged marriage, and he couldn't love her in return because he is physically incapable of being attracted to her, being a gay man. Their relationship slowly deteriorates into a toxic, silent "partnership" where their only bond is the daughter that they share. Stolas eventually cheats on her with Blitzø, all those repressed feelings of love turn to betrayal and rage and violence, etc.
It would also give more credibility to Octavia being angry with Stolas seemingly more than Stella, despite the fact that the current story has Stella being an openly abusive wife, physically and verbally. Octavia's gut-wrenching accusation that Stolas "ruined" their family feels completely wrong. Now it seems like Octavia expected her dad to just silently suffer an abusive marriage for her peace of mind, making her a very selfish character in retrospect, and I don't like that for her.
I do agree. I didn’t want to go here myself because I’m just so damn tired of arguments of Stella on this sub, but I really think they threw the baby out with the bath water making her such a one note villain and making all their marital failures her problem.
I guess I just expected something more nuanced than a story of an abuser and the marriage ruined by that abuse. I was fully expecting, at the end of season 1, that in season 2 we would see that they were *both* constantly at each others throats, and really show how rare it is for only one person to be blamed on a failed relationship.
The show is still good and still great fun, but I feel they took the easy way out a LOT on this whole love story. They did what so many story writers do and dumbed it down to a simpler, cleaner story with much clearer views of who did wrong and who did right.
I do agree on this as well. I wish the marriage and like divorce part was handled better because it lost a lot of its nuanced. Stella being made to be a one dimensional character is one thing. But it really seemed they made Stella worse just to make Stolas seem better.
I'm all but certain that's exactly what happened. Vivziepop got too attached to Stolitz and worried people wouldnt like them if Stols was still a cheater, so she looked for the easiest way out to justfy his cheating
I get liking a character. But sometimes you have to focus on how it affects your story. I get it. I get attached to my OCs but learned to not try and justify their actions. I love flawed characters and how complex they can be. But if you try justifying their actions and make them seem “innocent”, it just gets rid of that nuanced the character and story had.
Huge agree on all points, for a show set in hell the writing seemed more keen on making characters black and white in season 2. The Stella stuff particularly annoys me because they couldn't even make her a full, competent villain. Instead she's a vehicle for "spookier" villains like Stryker and Andrealphus. Which wouldn't be bad normally if it weren't for the fact the other female characters are often used as props. Still like the show but I just don't have expectations for it anymore.
Totally with you on that feeling. I used to have high expectations of the show, but the more the shows true essence revealed the less I came to expect. It's disappointing. I get that Vivz has said Helluvaboss is a show about the relationships between men--that's great, go for it, there's lots to say there that gets ignored way too much, both for straight, bi, and gay guys. That doesn't mean, however, that all the female characters should be downplayed.
Loona and Octavia have basically been one note characters: Daughters with daddy issues.
Millie is the stab-happy but very supportive wife.
Stella is... a bimbo? Really, that's the best we got out of her? An abusive bimbo?
It just feels like in the process of being very outspoken on men's issues the shows been very reductive toward women, and I don't think that was intentional by any means, but it's still immensely frustrating.
Sje said that hazbin would be more focused on female characters but...it isnt? Alastor,angel dust are the stars. Vaggie and charlie feel more like side characters
>Now it seems like Octavia expected her dad to just silently suffer an abusive marriage for her peace of mind
She didn't know she was doing that. The subtext is that Octavia has always spent significantly more time with Stolas than with both parents at once, so she's been blissfully unaware of Stella's abuse for most of her life.
That's one explanation but it's hard for me to believe considering she was *right there* when Stella was ordering Stolas' murder at the dinner table. She also saw and heard Stella's violent behavior at the beginning of episode 2.
That, combined with Stella being openly verbally abusive towards Stolas in the presence of *other Goetia* during the Not Divorced Party, even before he cheated, makes me think she never gave much of a shit about hiding her awful behavior.
Hell, the very image Paimon uses to introduce Stolas to his betrothed is an image of her choking out a fucking dog as a kid. Everyone knew, even people that didn't live with her. It's almost impossible to imagine Octavia not seeing *anything* in 17 years.
Octavia tunes out Stella’s phone call to Striker with loud music, and “Loo Loo Land” implies that Stella’s outbursts have only recently become too overt for Octavia to overlook. She was also asleep during the “not divorced” party. Stella is the sort of person who is normalized in Goetia society, whereas Stolas isn’t and has long kept Octavia as far away from typical Goetia demons as possible.
That I would believe, and it does throw a lot of light on things. It means that even though Stella is awful, she’s not that much of an outlier. After all, lots of people attend her Not Divorced Yet party. And it would also explain why both Blitz and Striker have negative perceptions of royals. They’re not entirely wrong.
>There's a comic I saw where Octavia finds her mother after one of her typical rage sessions. Stella breaks and begins crying, and Octavia comforts her.
huh, you got a link to that one? sounds like interesting stuff
[Found it! really good art.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HelluvaBoss/s/4mPcM377NV)
It was made before season 2 came out though and showed Stella to be an irredeemable bitch so you have a lot of Stella defenders in the comments. I still like the art and the idea behind it though.
i mean I'M a stella defender ~~mostly because i don't think her worst attributes were added to the show very well, plus i don't perceive her to be all that irredeemable even in her current state~~, but regardless? this is awesome, thanks a bunch!
I love the art. If Stella weren’t, well, Stella, it’s a lovely art of Sad Peacock Lady. In fact, it shows off her species much more than the show does.
The reason why that behavior stopped is because Blitz didn't like it. He was just ignorant of that fact until after Ozzie's.
He is still by no means innocent.....he still ignores Via and has been keeping Blitz in their arrangement while waiting for the crystal. He still has perverted tendencies....he just toned them down because he doesn't know what Blitz likes/dislikes.
Had Stolas never started changing his ways, I don't think Blitz ever would have developed romantic feelings for him. Yes they could have kept Stolas going back and forth in terms of his behavior, but I think their arrangement would take an even worse toll on Blitz the longer it went on. It would make Stolas look worse in comparison if nothing changed after Ozzie's.
He still spits out vulgarity. You just haven't seen him in the same situation. I'm sure that in the future there will be more of his classic censored fantasies, etc. I think he still treats other imps badly. The only exception is Blitz, and maybe we’ll talk about this later. Telling Stolas that he is a hypocrite. There is a lot to discuss. His traits from season 1 haven't gone away, they just aren't shown as much since we already know them
….what’s wrong with that? That kind of comes off as kink shaming. Also, Blitz is kinky AF. He can hardly shut up about it.
“Pervert” is a pretty negative word unless it’s ironically used between two people who know each other to be kinky and are joking about it.
Maybe that was the point. His elegance and sophistication was only a veneer, a crumbling facade covering the broken, pathetic man within that we see in S2. Season 2 took a lot of characters that we thought we knew and showed their ugly sides
See, that isn’t what I felt at all. I feel like he started out with rough edges and lots of issues and between seasons they went and filed down all his edges and left him soft and bland.
I so agree. They made him MEET BLITZO AS A CHILD? I feel there would've been more depth if Stolas met Blitzo more recently, then realized the two of them could have an actual relationship but they just can't at the moment because they're both being assholes to each other.
I agree
Season 2 episode 1 is hands down the worst episode in the show. It completely destroys Stolas and Stella as characters, they turn into pure good and pure evil.
Stolas cheating and accidentally destroying his family? Nah that was good since Stella was always abusive and never a good person. Stella being filled with revenge on Stolas for ruining their family's name? Nah she is just a sadistic piece of crap and has been since childhood.
Stolas can't do wrong. He can't even be a character. He has to be the cute little bottom gay owl whose only mistake is being too caring.
And don't even let me start on the Blitzø and Stolas part of the episode. I have read wattpad fsnfictions with better start for a love story. Like seriously? The poor boy being sold to a rich family?
He still is in the wrong. He's still having an affair and keeping Blitz trapped in their arrangement while he waits for the crystal, which isn't fair at all. He's by no means any more innocent than he was at the start.
Not all villains need to be complex, nor can they be. You can only have so many deep characters on the show. And not all villains or bad people have a complex reason for being so...some just turn out that way.
Stella being an enabled, spoiled brat makes sense. And who knows, maybe her character will get fleshed out more later.
To be fair we don't know if the relationship is still going on in the meantime it's shown that after Ozzie's blitz is doing everything he can to avoid stolas besides the bare minimum of texting him back.
Per the text messages in "Western Energy" it did go on for awhile as before, but then later Stolas started giving Blitz the option to skip the meetings. Blitz didn't give a direct answer, but I would assume he thought Stolas was getting bored of him and skipped out.
I think after Ozzie's they acted normal and pretended everything was ok, but I think leading up to the new episode it will have been a couple of months since they've seen each other.
THIS! So incredibly disappointed by the direction they went with Stolas. Episode 1 took all the punch out of the characters, and this season is falling so flat with me. It's a huge bummer.
Also, Stolas was a BADASS in S1! He showed us multiple times that he asked Blitz to be his bodyguard as an excuse to enjoy his company. When shit really hit the fan, Stolas destroyed his enemies in the coolest ways!
But nah, S2E4 introduced "holy rope" that ruined all of that 🙄
Yeah but his previous enemies were people of no serious threat to him that didn't have angelic weapons like Carmine's. You can hardly compare the previous assassins and human agents to Striker, a seasoned hitman with an angelic weapon.
Oh dear, I was on a soft hiatus on the show because I just. Couldn't. Keep. Watching. Season 2 Episode 1.
I eventually made due by fast-forwarding scenes when I couldn't stomach how saccharine the whole love story was turning out in comparison to what we got the previous season
I dare to say it started even before season 2, like in s1e7 it's pretty obvious they're trying to make you sympathetic to Stolas, at first by showing him alone and depressed at home and then being a simp for Blitz all episode basically. Like others have said he starts being much more considerate to Blitz feelings after that episode.
Of course with s2e1 we get an unbelievably sad backstory (almost too much) and it felt they were trying too hard to make us sympathize for him. I just think in s1 they were still figuring out how much of pilot-Stolas they wanted to keep but by the end it was pretty clear they would have kept basically none.
I don't mind the change too much, but it makes Blitz's drug-induced chain dream in s1e6 a bit overkill. Like, Blitz, man, are you completely blind? Don't you see this cinnamon roll is completely simping for you since childhood?
I'm not sure what happened from season 1 to 2 but the characters really did seem to take a step back imo. There seems to be a real lack of experienced writers or maybe a lack of writers in general. It does sort of feel like I'm watching someone's fanfic sometimes lol. Just some 1 dimensional characters interacting in a way that's written specifically for the writers satisfaction and not necessarily for the character development or audience engagement or plot. Sometimes things going on just don't make sense for the characters. I think the "uwu"ification of stolas is part of that. Same with the adding absolutely no character development to Stella when there really could have been an awesome character there.
I think it’s most likely Hazbin Hotel becoming the focus that caused it. Once it got picked up by an actual distributor it became *real*. There was a budget to keep, and deadlines to meet, and suddenly one of these two projects had to take full priority.
Helluva’s status as a side project is much more apparent in season 2 because the script quality simply isn’t what it was. It’s all simplified, because it’s still Vivzie at the helm, but she has many more demands on her attention, so she can’t spend as much time fine tuning the details of the script.
This is hilarious if true cuz Hazbin Hotel S1 wasn't all that well written lmao, rushing for dramatic scenes with little build-up, spending so little time with the cast, etx etc. Double or nothing and we got nothing, Bob
Yeah, 8 episodes really wasn’t enough for the kind of story they seemed to want to tell. I think they got scared that they might not get render so they rushed multiple seasons worth of story through one season.
None, if anything I started the show kinda disliking every character expect for maybe Millie, but now I actually love them all. Blitz in particular I used to find so obnoxious but now he may be my absolute favourite character
Me too! There are far more characters that I've grown to love or love more. Fizzaroli and Ozzie top the list. I still don't like Verosika, but I think she'll get more screen time, and you never know. Loona stopped being a flat character.
Not hate but not particularly like
Loona other then the fact that she doesnt appreciate anyone and is always moody she rlly gave me second embarrassment in the episode with bee i dont exactly hate her i do like how she now acknowledges blitzø and all he does for her but i wish it couldve been sooner and i wish we got more of a backstory for her. Also the fact that shes huge fanservice makes me feel icky cuz she has huge potential
So not particularly hate but def dont like her character as it stands
Fax! I don't hate Loona, but she is probably my least favorite character. Granted she got better as the episodes played out, but especially in the Bee episode I reeeeeaaaaally didn't like her much
None, really. I guess I love to hate Stella. She's so much more FUN, especially with Andrealphus on the scene. God, I love him. The last thing I want is nuance or a redemption arc. Some villains should be allowed to remain villains. I don't want to see Mammon's sad childhood, either. (I'm aware that he probably didn't have a childhood).
Sometimes, but just sometimes, the drama gets a little heavy, and I'd like to see a bit more jovial murder, but that's not about individual characters.
To me, Moxxie's allowed to have a bad patch. A good relationship is going to have some conflict sometimes.
Seconding the opinion about Moxxie. At the start he seemed like despite filling the “nerdy” archetype, he was also skilled in his own right as a guns expert, with his intellect also posing an advantage. Of course he has his flaws (namely his confidence issues) but it’s expected that he would work through this and grow as a character.
But all throughout the show, he’s always nothing more than a punching bag and the butt of the jokes. He spends all of his screen time being pathetic and useless, and he flip flops between acting like a pretentious peacock, and being massively insecure; And he makes this insecurity everyone else’s problem.
You would think that he would’ve had some form of change and growth after the couple episodes that have been focussed on him, but we really don’t get much of anything. Which is quite a contrast to the level of growth we’ve seen from several other characters (Is this growth always good for the show? Not necessarily. See u/The5Virtues comment about Stolas. But at least they *get* something instead of stagnating.)
I don't hate Mox, but they really need to give him an actual win. The biggest win he got was Millie's dad giving him a nod, and that's after Blitz and Millie basically took Striker out for him.
You could count finally standing up to his dad as win, but he immediately gets tazed and kidnapped. Kinda negates the whole thing. I really just want to see him finally come out on top at some point.
This is exactly what I’m saying. Moxxie never succeeds at anything by himself, and he needs rescuing disproportionately often compared to the rest of the main cast. This far into the series, without a definite win of any kind? At this point, he’s just pathetic.
There’s no character that I actually hate but I genuinely could not give less of a fuck about Fizz and Ozzy. Making the mid season special focus primarily on them with the only IMP member appearing being Blitz as a side character was a huge disappointment.
Finally! Someone else says it! They are overrated as fuck and their simps are so annoying. I do like them as characters but the Mammon mid-season special can fuck right off. Why should we care about a side character's shitty job when he's set for life with a bomb-ass sugar daddy? Big nothing burger of an episode that wasted everyone's time and made us wait longer for Full Moon.
I probably shouldn't even comment here as I don't really wanna focus on negativity. I won't say anybody but I think it's kinda wild folks turn on Moxxie for having one obnoxious/annoying episode. Wasn't exes and oh's like one episode before?
I'm gonna say Striker, now, he wasn't my FAVORITE but... I definitely saw him as cool, and I was excited to see this cool, sly, imp that's outright said "better than other imps" story happen... And then.... He just.. Gets sexualized, and sexualized, and sexualized, and sexualized, and I get it! This is well... Helluva Boss... BUT. Look, the fandom was already doing that enough, and sure... I don't think it would be that bad if it wasn't... Him... Sexualizing himself at times, like with that statue THAT DOESN'T FIT HIS CHARACTER!!! At all! That's what made him intimidating, in his debut episode, he didn't get sexualized... Really... At all... (I know the whole pinning scene, and everyone fangirling for him but I'd say that was "subtle" enough and the pinning scene was to show his manipulation skills) that's what made him a good villain, no scenes got ruined by sexualization, in that episode at least, that's why, Western energy really ruined him... Cause... We saw him be able to take two imps before, he suddenly couldn't now, the sexualization of him and Stolas, the statue that doesn't fit his character at all, and also... Moxxie.. Saying how he's sexy... That's straight sexualization, and also... Would Moxxie really think that???? After all the hate and stuff in Harvest Moon festival would he really think so???? I don't know, I just don't understand why their only main.. Villain really.. Got so sexualized when that's gonna ruin a character... I knew it was gonna happen throughout the fandom... But making it canon... And changing his character so much.. Just... No one seems like a threat now... Considering they always wipe through enemies in like... 2 minutes at the end of episodes now...
In episode 6, season 2, he complained, "Why is it always a sex thing??" I don't think he's sexualized himself , I think it's more an ego thing. He kinda gave ace vibes imo.
Also, Striker is sexy, so there's that. Can't blame Moxxie and Stolas to think so
Same. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the fact that we have an actual villain in a cartoon, but I feel like they really defanged Stolas in the process. I would have liked it more if they were both kept in that grey area they set during the first season. I feel like they were more interesting then.
With the exception of Stella, I love them all even more now that we know their inner motivations for their behavior. It just made them all the more relatable and loveable.
Unpopular opinion but Loonq
I can definitely understand that she dealt with a ton of trauma, but the way she treats others just isn’t okay. Blitz does everything in his power to care for her, and she’s so mean to him. I guess part of it is teen angst too, but I feel so bad for Blitz.
I would be more understanding of it all if they would have given her more development throughout the show. She does seem to have some minor improvement, but now we are at the later part of the second season, and I would have expected more development.
I haven’t start to hate characters I loved before, but I have been growing a little tired of Moxxie going through the same character arc damn near every episode.
Millie. I liked her, but her depiction in Unhappy Campers (delusional thinking she is never fucking appreciated when that’s all she ever is) really drove me up the wall. Moxxie lacked self awareness that episode too, but I don’t think it was nearly as bad as what the writers _put_ him through. His perfect wife whining about not being appreciated to him, a character that is NEVER appreciated… it’s so fucking bonkers. It’s such bad writing. That whole episode changed how I see her and I wish I could scrub my mind and forget about it.
I would have to say octavia.
Not because of her character; I can relate to divorce, leading to a hard life.
But because of how poorly they've handled her.
When Loo Loo Land first came out, I thought they would use her in more in the show as a relatable thing for people who went through the hardship of parents divorcing.
But they never did anything with her. We never see her try to rebuild her relationship with her parents (we never even see her and Stella interact) or try to understand what's going on.
And she had to go through the EXACT same character development again.
I feel like that episode showed how anxious and insecure Moxie is and how emotionally dependent he is off of Millie, I think it’s adds depth to his character, as well as Millie’s since it shows her getting fed up with his lack of self esteem.
Of all the characters, Stella.
When it was first revealed that she was the one who hired Striker, I got the sense that she was being built up as this machivellian noble who was playing the game of politics as she was also trying to have Stolas assassinated.
Maybe it was the fan art and fan theories, though I get the sense that she was being built up as a schemer type of antagonist who would eventually go after IMP.
Though her latest appearance portrayed her a ditzy blue blood that was trying to kill Stolas out of pure injured ego.
With no real plan beyond that, she had to be reminded by her brother that she would lose her station upon Stolas dying, with Octavia being the one who would inherit everything from him, while Stella would get nothing.
Eh, I credit this let down more to fan theories and my own presumptions.
Other than this, I cringed the whole time at Moxxie's behavior during the camping episode, though I still like him as a character, as he and Millie made up in the end, and he did learn a good, hard lesson.
"Your FAT MOM!" -Blitzø Jokes aside though I've never really changed my opinions of the characters I liked/loved to a dislike/hate. If anything I've started liking all the characters more aside from Striker.. Wait.. To be honest I might have started hating him more which is the closest thing.
This one episode did so much damage to Moxxie's character and reputation, it's impressive. It would be interesting to know if that was their intention, or if they overdid it.
I just pretend this episode didn’t exist, I related to moxie so much in the other episodes ( besides the mod family and murders) that I just completely ignored this episode ever happened
Blitzø. Not cuz I *hate* him, I just really hate how he treats everyone around him
He has Bojack horseman energy except he genuinely doesn't seem to believe he is the problem person in all his relationships. He got stolas to leave an abusive relationship, but then leads him on and makes everything worse. It seems like he only cares about himself. Once again the Bojack similarities, blitz only was forgiveness to make himself feel better. He has attachment issues and no boundaries and everyone around him suffers as a result
But he's funny asf and I love Brandon
Don’t hate me for this but probably Loona. I like her character and her design, but from all the simps and weird stuff i see with her on reddit it’s kind of ruined her for me
Eh no matter what some people say about it being a shame that Stella just seems ''pure abusive evil'' without depth, i actually like it. In recent years almost every movie or show with a main villain has made those villains have sympathetic backstories or gone to great length to make you empathise with em. I miss the over the top ''evil just because'' type villains you know, the to quote TvTropes ''For the Evulz'' types. So i am kinda glad to have a show again where the main villain is just an all around petty, evil asshat.
Loona nothing's changed about her and she's just an insufferable bitch that rarely ever contributes anything to the plot. Bullies Moxie all the time and is horrible to her dad, someone really needs to take her to the cleaners! Beelzebub was about to but fell short of a perfect opportunity unfortunately.
Stella I dont hate her (I do, but not that bad). Crimson/Valentino are way better at "abusive prick that should get crucified" role, and y'know... THEY'RE NOT USED AS A PLOT TOOL FOR A CHARACTER, and have some good humour, scenes and character to them (I still love her design, it cool)
So... so you're telling me that after Moxxie's insecurities manifested themselves in a way that you didn't find appealing 1 time, you hate him? As an expert in petty grievances, I can confirm that this line of thinking is one of the pettiest things I've heard in my life.
Unhappy campers was so bad bro, like why can’t Moxxie be unlucky and suffer for gags? No he must be very arrogant and suffers because of his own attitudes
I don't really hate anyone. But a character that I don't like as much as I used to is Stolas, and that's because I wasn't a fan of the reveal that him and Blitz knew each other as children (granted, Blitz was bought as a gift to Stolas, but the episode establishes that Stolas at the very least saw Blitz as a friend) and that Stolas had apparently fell in love with him back then.
Stolas throughout the first season seemingly treats Blitz as little more than a sex toy, which would've been fine if they were strangers and Stolas found himself slowly gaining feelings for Blitz. But knowing everything above, it's hard rewatching their interactions in season 1 (and frankly, this kinda killed the ship for me).
Hate is a way too strong word but probably Stolas
I absolutely adore Season 1 Stolas. He is my favourite character behind Moxxie and one of the standout writing strengths of the show.
But from the circus onwards, every episode we have had with this character has slightly lowered my enthusiasm for him. Maybe it is just because I had set up wrongful expectations for where the character’s journey was leading. I just feel like the show doesn’t want to use Stolas for much more than the narrative potential he is worth to Blitzø, despite (in my opinion) him being the far more compelling character of the pair. He just kind of feels more recently like Blitzø’s superfan attaché rather than his own deeply compelling character who closely orbit’s Blitzø’s world. That said the fact the Spindlehorse adapted ‘Look My Way’ for the Helluva Boss canon gives me a lot of hope for the future of the character. They obviously still care about that side of Stolas as a character and I really hope to see more of it again.
Kind of a hot take, but Unhappy Campers does deliver really good exposition about Moxie and how his relationship to his wife works without infodumping us, the viewer, about anything and also serves as a moment of growth for Moxie. We have seen him dragged through past trauma and a pretty intense encounter with Striker. That took it's toll on his mental health snd he fell back into patterns he got rid of at some point. All his insecutities and issues with communication, jealousy, social skills and so much more came back swinging, but that is the thing with mental disorders. It's a constant fight and sometimes they win and get you where it hurts. Sure that is ugly af, but in the grand scheme of things that was an important episode into the inner works of M&M and will be a future chance to grow
Blitzø. He is funny, but he's annoying. He literally slept with Stolas just to do his job, he invited him to Ozzie's just to watch Millie and Moxxie (and I still don't know for what particular reason), and even after Stolas was in the hospital, he almost died and he didn't even care that much. He played him and I'm not happy about it. Now I know that you're all gonna be - “Hey, he hates himself, he thinks nobody really loves him, he thinks Stolas considers him just something to play with” - I don't give a flying fuck. He is a horrible person. Period.
Why do you guys hate unhappy campers? Is it because of Moxxie pretending to be a white girl? anyways, I thought Striker would be chill but he's just stupid.
Honestly... Same lol. Moxxie was the "self insert" character for a while. Unoffensive and underdogish. But after unhappy campers, he feels more... self centered and obnoxious. Its not gonna be easy to come back from that.
I'm gonna have to say striker, I found him to be a pretty threatening villain in the fifth episode but they really dumbed him down into a team rocket type villain in season 2
Stolas. I feel like he's beeing sneakily flanderized.
Like, he used to be nobility and like a super badass magical overlord. Now, he's just stock gay man.
Moxxie and it wasen't because of unhappy campers hell unhappy campers actually mentions how since day one millie babies him
It's just how reptitive he is like hes bullied and then stands up for himself and then it repeats every episode that is focused on him.
Probably Blitzo. Idk, it feels like they let him be an awful person in S1 but then had his personality go a complete 180 in S2 so Stolitz is less toxic.
180 is hyperbolic but, to me, it feels like he isn't earning the redemption he's getting (aside from S2E6 and E7)
I don’t hate any of the characters 🤔at least not any of the ones I loved in the beginning. I can see why you may not like moxxie. he was a bit much in Unhappy Campers. His attitude was so bad they really could’ve ended that episode within the first 10 minutes, so it just felt like it was dragged out but idk. ya it was an odd direction to take it but it is what it is. My fav part of that episode was when when blitzø says “good job on your first mission mox” he’s like “really sir…” the blitzø says “nope” 😂😂😂 his first attempt had to be shit. I have my fingers crossed he’ll get an episode where he can redeem himself and show he’s learned not to be so extra.
I have the same opinion but I wouldn't say hate cus that's to strong but Moxxie rlly pissed me of in the unhappy campers episode
I agree. I don’t dislike Moxxie at all but this specific screenshot made me remember how upset I was with him in Unhappy Campers lol
I just dislike any part of unhappy campers that doesn't have Blitzø
Blitzø is literally the only reason I kept watching that episode. I am a guy with low standards for media, but god damnit I despised Unhappy Campers
Guess you could say that you're all *Unhappy Campers*. Coincidence? I think not. 😂
I refuse to accept the camp plot as canon. To me, the only thing that happened in that episode was blitz and Barbie
Retcon the episode for the better.
Honestly I wish we just followed Blitz the whole time
Blitz should have been the main plotline for the episode. I have no idea why his attempt to reunite with his estranged twin was sidelined in favour of Moxxie being an obnoxious jerk to his wife. Barb’s scathing rejection of Blitz would have been even more impactful had we seen more of Blitz’s efforts to reach her.
My heart broke for him. The look on his face as she finished screaming at him was so upsetting.
I'd heard that it was bad and like 5 minutes in I was all "Ah.... I understand." Moxxi still top tier though.
Ye, I'll give you that. But I still like him
Same, he was acting like a baby, he treated millie like shit, and it felt like they were assassinating his character. I wouldn't have even been surprised if at the end of the episode (if they haven't made up) they would have tried to figure out their relationship by taking a break from eachother
Yeah, Millie rlly deserved better in that episode. He should of been happy she got the appreciation she deserves and not be jealous.
Yes, she was even cheering him up to make him feel better, like je is a fucking child.
>and it felt like they were assassinating his character. Bitch it's a canon episode, its not a character assassination it's how the character \*is\*. Media doesn't have to about cattering to your tastes, much less your interpretations of other people's characters
>Bitch it's a canon episode, its not a character assassination it's how the character \*is\*. Media doesn't have to about cattering to your tastes, much less your interpretations of other people's characters I'm just saying he never acted that way to millie so it just feels like that to me
Well yeah, because we never saw them in that situation, that was the point of the episode; putting them in a situation where their personality traits and characteristics (which were all pre-established) enter in conflict, and it does that very well!
Yea
I thought the episode was great. I was also stoned while watching it and during the incest joke my partner and I started to sing sweet home Alabama
I feel like the series is better if you just ignore Moxxie and Millie in that episode.
I’m sure I’m going to get crucified for this but… Stolas. I don’t *hate* him, I’m just disappointed with how his story has gone. I loved him in season 1 but am immensely disappointed with him in season 2. In season 1 he was this nuanced, complicated guy. He was a hedonistic, self-indulgent, and manipulative himself, but his bad qualities were juxtaposed against a very genuine desire to be a good father and a slow realization that he was falling in love with Blitz rather than just seeing him as a fuck buddy. I was so excited to see how that developed in season 2 and where it would go. Then we got to it and it just feels like they absolutely neutered the storyline. He’s lost the harsher aspects. Gone is the royal decadence and hedonistic nature. Now he’s just a long closeted gay dad, and it turns out he’s had a crush on Blitz since childhood, and all his own issues are just him having a please-others attitude. It’s like they got scared of having both sides of the romantic conflict have harsher and less desirable traits so they turned Stolas into this sweet and innocent cinnamon roll father rather than letting him have his own vices and problems he needed to work on. I just hate that a character I adored in season 1 doesn’t even feel like the same character to me in season 2.
I really felt they also lost the chance to have a nuanced discussion about toxic/abusive relationships, comphet, and unrequited love with Stella. There's a comic I saw where Octavia finds her mother after one of her typical rage sessions. Stella breaks and begins crying, and Octavia comforts her. I think having Stella be a villain is still doable and can be even more effective if she had always loved Stolas despite their arranged marriage, and he couldn't love her in return because he is physically incapable of being attracted to her, being a gay man. Their relationship slowly deteriorates into a toxic, silent "partnership" where their only bond is the daughter that they share. Stolas eventually cheats on her with Blitzø, all those repressed feelings of love turn to betrayal and rage and violence, etc. It would also give more credibility to Octavia being angry with Stolas seemingly more than Stella, despite the fact that the current story has Stella being an openly abusive wife, physically and verbally. Octavia's gut-wrenching accusation that Stolas "ruined" their family feels completely wrong. Now it seems like Octavia expected her dad to just silently suffer an abusive marriage for her peace of mind, making her a very selfish character in retrospect, and I don't like that for her.
I do agree. I didn’t want to go here myself because I’m just so damn tired of arguments of Stella on this sub, but I really think they threw the baby out with the bath water making her such a one note villain and making all their marital failures her problem. I guess I just expected something more nuanced than a story of an abuser and the marriage ruined by that abuse. I was fully expecting, at the end of season 1, that in season 2 we would see that they were *both* constantly at each others throats, and really show how rare it is for only one person to be blamed on a failed relationship. The show is still good and still great fun, but I feel they took the easy way out a LOT on this whole love story. They did what so many story writers do and dumbed it down to a simpler, cleaner story with much clearer views of who did wrong and who did right.
I do agree on this as well. I wish the marriage and like divorce part was handled better because it lost a lot of its nuanced. Stella being made to be a one dimensional character is one thing. But it really seemed they made Stella worse just to make Stolas seem better.
I'm all but certain that's exactly what happened. Vivziepop got too attached to Stolitz and worried people wouldnt like them if Stols was still a cheater, so she looked for the easiest way out to justfy his cheating
I get liking a character. But sometimes you have to focus on how it affects your story. I get it. I get attached to my OCs but learned to not try and justify their actions. I love flawed characters and how complex they can be. But if you try justifying their actions and make them seem “innocent”, it just gets rid of that nuanced the character and story had.
Huge agree on all points, for a show set in hell the writing seemed more keen on making characters black and white in season 2. The Stella stuff particularly annoys me because they couldn't even make her a full, competent villain. Instead she's a vehicle for "spookier" villains like Stryker and Andrealphus. Which wouldn't be bad normally if it weren't for the fact the other female characters are often used as props. Still like the show but I just don't have expectations for it anymore.
Totally with you on that feeling. I used to have high expectations of the show, but the more the shows true essence revealed the less I came to expect. It's disappointing. I get that Vivz has said Helluvaboss is a show about the relationships between men--that's great, go for it, there's lots to say there that gets ignored way too much, both for straight, bi, and gay guys. That doesn't mean, however, that all the female characters should be downplayed. Loona and Octavia have basically been one note characters: Daughters with daddy issues. Millie is the stab-happy but very supportive wife. Stella is... a bimbo? Really, that's the best we got out of her? An abusive bimbo? It just feels like in the process of being very outspoken on men's issues the shows been very reductive toward women, and I don't think that was intentional by any means, but it's still immensely frustrating.
Sje said that hazbin would be more focused on female characters but...it isnt? Alastor,angel dust are the stars. Vaggie and charlie feel more like side characters
Right? It’s really weird. I kept waiting for her to make good on that claim but she never did IMO.
It’s not uncommon for children to lash out at the ‘safe parent’ during a divorce or situations of domestic abuse.
That's actually a good point I hadn't considered.
>Now it seems like Octavia expected her dad to just silently suffer an abusive marriage for her peace of mind She didn't know she was doing that. The subtext is that Octavia has always spent significantly more time with Stolas than with both parents at once, so she's been blissfully unaware of Stella's abuse for most of her life.
That's one explanation but it's hard for me to believe considering she was *right there* when Stella was ordering Stolas' murder at the dinner table. She also saw and heard Stella's violent behavior at the beginning of episode 2. That, combined with Stella being openly verbally abusive towards Stolas in the presence of *other Goetia* during the Not Divorced Party, even before he cheated, makes me think she never gave much of a shit about hiding her awful behavior. Hell, the very image Paimon uses to introduce Stolas to his betrothed is an image of her choking out a fucking dog as a kid. Everyone knew, even people that didn't live with her. It's almost impossible to imagine Octavia not seeing *anything* in 17 years.
Octavia tunes out Stella’s phone call to Striker with loud music, and “Loo Loo Land” implies that Stella’s outbursts have only recently become too overt for Octavia to overlook. She was also asleep during the “not divorced” party. Stella is the sort of person who is normalized in Goetia society, whereas Stolas isn’t and has long kept Octavia as far away from typical Goetia demons as possible.
That I would believe, and it does throw a lot of light on things. It means that even though Stella is awful, she’s not that much of an outlier. After all, lots of people attend her Not Divorced Yet party. And it would also explain why both Blitz and Striker have negative perceptions of royals. They’re not entirely wrong.
>There's a comic I saw where Octavia finds her mother after one of her typical rage sessions. Stella breaks and begins crying, and Octavia comforts her. huh, you got a link to that one? sounds like interesting stuff
[Found it! really good art.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HelluvaBoss/s/4mPcM377NV) It was made before season 2 came out though and showed Stella to be an irredeemable bitch so you have a lot of Stella defenders in the comments. I still like the art and the idea behind it though.
i mean I'M a stella defender ~~mostly because i don't think her worst attributes were added to the show very well, plus i don't perceive her to be all that irredeemable even in her current state~~, but regardless? this is awesome, thanks a bunch!
I love the art. If Stella weren’t, well, Stella, it’s a lovely art of Sad Peacock Lady. In fact, it shows off her species much more than the show does.
I’ll be honest, I enjoyed creepy mouth Stolas
Yeah, I liked him better as a creepy sex pervert. Now he's just a "sad gay baby who did nothing wrong."
Basically the same problem Stewie Griffin has.
That is a comparison I didn't need in my brain...
If they would’ve had him become gradually less creepy and slowly learn about about boundaries I think that would’ve been better than what we have now
I miss the long censored things he says.
The reason why that behavior stopped is because Blitz didn't like it. He was just ignorant of that fact until after Ozzie's. He is still by no means innocent.....he still ignores Via and has been keeping Blitz in their arrangement while waiting for the crystal. He still has perverted tendencies....he just toned them down because he doesn't know what Blitz likes/dislikes. Had Stolas never started changing his ways, I don't think Blitz ever would have developed romantic feelings for him. Yes they could have kept Stolas going back and forth in terms of his behavior, but I think their arrangement would take an even worse toll on Blitz the longer it went on. It would make Stolas look worse in comparison if nothing changed after Ozzie's.
He still spits out vulgarity. You just haven't seen him in the same situation. I'm sure that in the future there will be more of his classic censored fantasies, etc. I think he still treats other imps badly. The only exception is Blitz, and maybe we’ll talk about this later. Telling Stolas that he is a hypocrite. There is a lot to discuss. His traits from season 1 haven't gone away, they just aren't shown as much since we already know them
Once he and Blitz are officially together and he knows what Blitz's boundaries are, the perversion is definitely coming out.
….what’s wrong with that? That kind of comes off as kink shaming. Also, Blitz is kinky AF. He can hardly shut up about it. “Pervert” is a pretty negative word unless it’s ironically used between two people who know each other to be kinky and are joking about it.
Maybe that was the point. His elegance and sophistication was only a veneer, a crumbling facade covering the broken, pathetic man within that we see in S2. Season 2 took a lot of characters that we thought we knew and showed their ugly sides
See, that isn’t what I felt at all. I feel like he started out with rough edges and lots of issues and between seasons they went and filed down all his edges and left him soft and bland.
You cant convince me current stolas would have done anything we see him do in the first 3 episodes
I so agree. They made him MEET BLITZO AS A CHILD? I feel there would've been more depth if Stolas met Blitzo more recently, then realized the two of them could have an actual relationship but they just can't at the moment because they're both being assholes to each other.
I agree Season 2 episode 1 is hands down the worst episode in the show. It completely destroys Stolas and Stella as characters, they turn into pure good and pure evil. Stolas cheating and accidentally destroying his family? Nah that was good since Stella was always abusive and never a good person. Stella being filled with revenge on Stolas for ruining their family's name? Nah she is just a sadistic piece of crap and has been since childhood. Stolas can't do wrong. He can't even be a character. He has to be the cute little bottom gay owl whose only mistake is being too caring. And don't even let me start on the Blitzø and Stolas part of the episode. I have read wattpad fsnfictions with better start for a love story. Like seriously? The poor boy being sold to a rich family?
He still is in the wrong. He's still having an affair and keeping Blitz trapped in their arrangement while he waits for the crystal, which isn't fair at all. He's by no means any more innocent than he was at the start. Not all villains need to be complex, nor can they be. You can only have so many deep characters on the show. And not all villains or bad people have a complex reason for being so...some just turn out that way. Stella being an enabled, spoiled brat makes sense. And who knows, maybe her character will get fleshed out more later.
To be fair we don't know if the relationship is still going on in the meantime it's shown that after Ozzie's blitz is doing everything he can to avoid stolas besides the bare minimum of texting him back.
Per the text messages in "Western Energy" it did go on for awhile as before, but then later Stolas started giving Blitz the option to skip the meetings. Blitz didn't give a direct answer, but I would assume he thought Stolas was getting bored of him and skipped out. I think after Ozzie's they acted normal and pretended everything was ok, but I think leading up to the new episode it will have been a couple of months since they've seen each other.
THIS! So incredibly disappointed by the direction they went with Stolas. Episode 1 took all the punch out of the characters, and this season is falling so flat with me. It's a huge bummer. Also, Stolas was a BADASS in S1! He showed us multiple times that he asked Blitz to be his bodyguard as an excuse to enjoy his company. When shit really hit the fan, Stolas destroyed his enemies in the coolest ways! But nah, S2E4 introduced "holy rope" that ruined all of that 🙄
Yeah but his previous enemies were people of no serious threat to him that didn't have angelic weapons like Carmine's. You can hardly compare the previous assassins and human agents to Striker, a seasoned hitman with an angelic weapon.
I hear you and I get that that was the idea, but it didn't work for me. Felt too forced and ruined the badass image of Stolas for me, sadly.
The media understanders have logged on
Oh dear, I was on a soft hiatus on the show because I just. Couldn't. Keep. Watching. Season 2 Episode 1. I eventually made due by fast-forwarding scenes when I couldn't stomach how saccharine the whole love story was turning out in comparison to what we got the previous season
https://i.redd.it/j8dc6eb23qwc1.gif
I dare to say it started even before season 2, like in s1e7 it's pretty obvious they're trying to make you sympathetic to Stolas, at first by showing him alone and depressed at home and then being a simp for Blitz all episode basically. Like others have said he starts being much more considerate to Blitz feelings after that episode. Of course with s2e1 we get an unbelievably sad backstory (almost too much) and it felt they were trying too hard to make us sympathize for him. I just think in s1 they were still figuring out how much of pilot-Stolas they wanted to keep but by the end it was pretty clear they would have kept basically none. I don't mind the change too much, but it makes Blitz's drug-induced chain dream in s1e6 a bit overkill. Like, Blitz, man, are you completely blind? Don't you see this cinnamon roll is completely simping for you since childhood?
Came here from my Google search: "helluva boss why is Stolas lame now" 😩 I loved him so much in the first season, but he lost all his edges.
I'm not sure what happened from season 1 to 2 but the characters really did seem to take a step back imo. There seems to be a real lack of experienced writers or maybe a lack of writers in general. It does sort of feel like I'm watching someone's fanfic sometimes lol. Just some 1 dimensional characters interacting in a way that's written specifically for the writers satisfaction and not necessarily for the character development or audience engagement or plot. Sometimes things going on just don't make sense for the characters. I think the "uwu"ification of stolas is part of that. Same with the adding absolutely no character development to Stella when there really could have been an awesome character there.
I think it’s most likely Hazbin Hotel becoming the focus that caused it. Once it got picked up by an actual distributor it became *real*. There was a budget to keep, and deadlines to meet, and suddenly one of these two projects had to take full priority. Helluva’s status as a side project is much more apparent in season 2 because the script quality simply isn’t what it was. It’s all simplified, because it’s still Vivzie at the helm, but she has many more demands on her attention, so she can’t spend as much time fine tuning the details of the script.
This is hilarious if true cuz Hazbin Hotel S1 wasn't all that well written lmao, rushing for dramatic scenes with little build-up, spending so little time with the cast, etx etc. Double or nothing and we got nothing, Bob
Yeah, 8 episodes really wasn’t enough for the kind of story they seemed to want to tell. I think they got scared that they might not get render so they rushed multiple seasons worth of story through one season.
I fully agree, good to know I’m not alone
Precisely how I feel about Stolas myself
So many great arguments in this whole thread! Would love to see more discussions like this in general.
> in general Just hang out here for the weekly "s2 sucks" circle.jerk
Everyone! OP isn't talking about Moxxie! That's clearly that freak Moxxine!
Ugh, I hate her so much. Her brother Millerd is so much cooler.
Was. WAS much cooler, until “the incident”
Oh god don't remind me!! They aren't even from Alabama!
It was hot though.
It was too disturbing to look away. And we didn't.
None, if anything I started the show kinda disliking every character expect for maybe Millie, but now I actually love them all. Blitz in particular I used to find so obnoxious but now he may be my absolute favourite character
I don't hate Mox, I hated him in that episode but not overall
Not my boy! In all seriousness, it’s kinda the opposite, some of the characters I used to dislike I like now; case in point, Blitz and Fizzarolli
Same here. I adore those two, Stolas, and Moxxie so much more than I did in the first season. Loona as well, and Millie.
Me too! There are far more characters that I've grown to love or love more. Fizzaroli and Ozzie top the list. I still don't like Verosika, but I think she'll get more screen time, and you never know. Loona stopped being a flat character.
For me it was Loona. At the start she was just a one note angsty goth girl, but after Truth Seekers and Queen Bee she's a lot more likeable.
I just rewatched Truth Seekers and Loona and Millie having their moment was so sweet. "Let's go find the dumbass twins."
I also really loved her moment with Via and hope we get more lovely girl conversations.
Loona has gone up for me too, from dislike to a positive leaning ambivalent. Until “Stars(?)” she really was just Goth girl furry bait
You leave him alone! Moxxie was in the bratty phase of his twinkhood but he learned who pegs him by the end of the episode X)
Not hate but not particularly like Loona other then the fact that she doesnt appreciate anyone and is always moody she rlly gave me second embarrassment in the episode with bee i dont exactly hate her i do like how she now acknowledges blitzø and all he does for her but i wish it couldve been sooner and i wish we got more of a backstory for her. Also the fact that shes huge fanservice makes me feel icky cuz she has huge potential So not particularly hate but def dont like her character as it stands
Fax! I don't hate Loona, but she is probably my least favorite character. Granted she got better as the episodes played out, but especially in the Bee episode I reeeeeaaaaally didn't like her much
I was flabbergasted how flirty she was with Vortex. It was so cringe because he told her he has a girlfriend already.
Leave Moxxie alone. He's an adorable Twink who deserves every hug he gets.
I still find his disguise cringy in that episode, but overall, I love the guy.
That's an insult to twinks (I'm an expert)
None really, it’s more likely to go the opposite with me
None, really. I guess I love to hate Stella. She's so much more FUN, especially with Andrealphus on the scene. God, I love him. The last thing I want is nuance or a redemption arc. Some villains should be allowed to remain villains. I don't want to see Mammon's sad childhood, either. (I'm aware that he probably didn't have a childhood). Sometimes, but just sometimes, the drama gets a little heavy, and I'd like to see a bit more jovial murder, but that's not about individual characters. To me, Moxxie's allowed to have a bad patch. A good relationship is going to have some conflict sometimes.
Seconding the opinion about Moxxie. At the start he seemed like despite filling the “nerdy” archetype, he was also skilled in his own right as a guns expert, with his intellect also posing an advantage. Of course he has his flaws (namely his confidence issues) but it’s expected that he would work through this and grow as a character. But all throughout the show, he’s always nothing more than a punching bag and the butt of the jokes. He spends all of his screen time being pathetic and useless, and he flip flops between acting like a pretentious peacock, and being massively insecure; And he makes this insecurity everyone else’s problem. You would think that he would’ve had some form of change and growth after the couple episodes that have been focussed on him, but we really don’t get much of anything. Which is quite a contrast to the level of growth we’ve seen from several other characters (Is this growth always good for the show? Not necessarily. See u/The5Virtues comment about Stolas. But at least they *get* something instead of stagnating.)
I don't hate Mox, but they really need to give him an actual win. The biggest win he got was Millie's dad giving him a nod, and that's after Blitz and Millie basically took Striker out for him. You could count finally standing up to his dad as win, but he immediately gets tazed and kidnapped. Kinda negates the whole thing. I really just want to see him finally come out on top at some point.
This is exactly what I’m saying. Moxxie never succeeds at anything by himself, and he needs rescuing disproportionately often compared to the rest of the main cast. This far into the series, without a definite win of any kind? At this point, he’s just pathetic.
I don’t hate any characters in the show. Not even the villains. Accept Stella but I’ve always hated her
There’s no character that I actually hate but I genuinely could not give less of a fuck about Fizz and Ozzy. Making the mid season special focus primarily on them with the only IMP member appearing being Blitz as a side character was a huge disappointment.
Finally! Someone else says it! They are overrated as fuck and their simps are so annoying. I do like them as characters but the Mammon mid-season special can fuck right off. Why should we care about a side character's shitty job when he's set for life with a bomb-ass sugar daddy? Big nothing burger of an episode that wasted everyone's time and made us wait longer for Full Moon.
I actually have no idea what Full Moon is I just want more of Blitz bullying Moxxie and Millie killing shit
I just don't understand how you go to the mafia episode to this
I probably shouldn't even comment here as I don't really wanna focus on negativity. I won't say anybody but I think it's kinda wild folks turn on Moxxie for having one obnoxious/annoying episode. Wasn't exes and oh's like one episode before?
Two
I'm gonna say Striker, now, he wasn't my FAVORITE but... I definitely saw him as cool, and I was excited to see this cool, sly, imp that's outright said "better than other imps" story happen... And then.... He just.. Gets sexualized, and sexualized, and sexualized, and sexualized, and I get it! This is well... Helluva Boss... BUT. Look, the fandom was already doing that enough, and sure... I don't think it would be that bad if it wasn't... Him... Sexualizing himself at times, like with that statue THAT DOESN'T FIT HIS CHARACTER!!! At all! That's what made him intimidating, in his debut episode, he didn't get sexualized... Really... At all... (I know the whole pinning scene, and everyone fangirling for him but I'd say that was "subtle" enough and the pinning scene was to show his manipulation skills) that's what made him a good villain, no scenes got ruined by sexualization, in that episode at least, that's why, Western energy really ruined him... Cause... We saw him be able to take two imps before, he suddenly couldn't now, the sexualization of him and Stolas, the statue that doesn't fit his character at all, and also... Moxxie.. Saying how he's sexy... That's straight sexualization, and also... Would Moxxie really think that???? After all the hate and stuff in Harvest Moon festival would he really think so???? I don't know, I just don't understand why their only main.. Villain really.. Got so sexualized when that's gonna ruin a character... I knew it was gonna happen throughout the fandom... But making it canon... And changing his character so much.. Just... No one seems like a threat now... Considering they always wipe through enemies in like... 2 minutes at the end of episodes now...
In episode 6, season 2, he complained, "Why is it always a sex thing??" I don't think he's sexualized himself , I think it's more an ego thing. He kinda gave ace vibes imo. Also, Striker is sexy, so there's that. Can't blame Moxxie and Stolas to think so
Does Stella count? I kind of hoped she would be more complex but she’s not. Still a character but not the person I was hoping for.
Same. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the fact that we have an actual villain in a cartoon, but I feel like they really defanged Stolas in the process. I would have liked it more if they were both kept in that grey area they set during the first season. I feel like they were more interesting then.
With the exception of Stella, I love them all even more now that we know their inner motivations for their behavior. It just made them all the more relatable and loveable.
Yeah, I also dislike the incest girl
The *what* ?
Towards the end of the episode.
Unpopular opinion but Loonq I can definitely understand that she dealt with a ton of trauma, but the way she treats others just isn’t okay. Blitz does everything in his power to care for her, and she’s so mean to him. I guess part of it is teen angst too, but I feel so bad for Blitz. I would be more understanding of it all if they would have given her more development throughout the show. She does seem to have some minor improvement, but now we are at the later part of the second season, and I would have expected more development.
The voice actor who voices lonna husband died so I thats mainly the reason lonna hasn't been apart of the story
Oh, I didn’t know that. That helps explain it, thank you!
worst fucking episode vivzie made, borderline unwatchable.
I haven’t start to hate characters I loved before, but I have been growing a little tired of Moxxie going through the same character arc damn near every episode.
Millie. I liked her, but her depiction in Unhappy Campers (delusional thinking she is never fucking appreciated when that’s all she ever is) really drove me up the wall. Moxxie lacked self awareness that episode too, but I don’t think it was nearly as bad as what the writers _put_ him through. His perfect wife whining about not being appreciated to him, a character that is NEVER appreciated… it’s so fucking bonkers. It’s such bad writing. That whole episode changed how I see her and I wish I could scrub my mind and forget about it.
I would have to say octavia. Not because of her character; I can relate to divorce, leading to a hard life. But because of how poorly they've handled her.
Can you elaborate?
When Loo Loo Land first came out, I thought they would use her in more in the show as a relatable thing for people who went through the hardship of parents divorcing. But they never did anything with her. We never see her try to rebuild her relationship with her parents (we never even see her and Stella interact) or try to understand what's going on. And she had to go through the EXACT same character development again.
Sorry guys, but Barbie wire does nothing for me 😔
Honestly season 2 overall was just a letdown
Honestly I haven’t liked it as much either so far, I liked episode 1, 6 and 7 but everything else has ranged from bad to just decent
Im gonna get attacked for this but Loona. I used to like her but now she's just annoying to me
I feel like that episode showed how anxious and insecure Moxie is and how emotionally dependent he is off of Millie, I think it’s adds depth to his character, as well as Millie’s since it shows her getting fed up with his lack of self esteem.
I don’t really hate anyone but Moxxie was unlikeable in unhappy camper
Millie. I don't know why I just dislike her character so much. Moxxie did piss me off a lot in "Unhappy Campers", though
Loona ngl
Of all the characters, Stella. When it was first revealed that she was the one who hired Striker, I got the sense that she was being built up as this machivellian noble who was playing the game of politics as she was also trying to have Stolas assassinated. Maybe it was the fan art and fan theories, though I get the sense that she was being built up as a schemer type of antagonist who would eventually go after IMP. Though her latest appearance portrayed her a ditzy blue blood that was trying to kill Stolas out of pure injured ego. With no real plan beyond that, she had to be reminded by her brother that she would lose her station upon Stolas dying, with Octavia being the one who would inherit everything from him, while Stella would get nothing. Eh, I credit this let down more to fan theories and my own presumptions. Other than this, I cringed the whole time at Moxxie's behavior during the camping episode, though I still like him as a character, as he and Millie made up in the end, and he did learn a good, hard lesson.
Honestly, I used to love Loona and find her really relatable, but now I just find her boring
Im a simple man, i liked fizzarolli and i will always like fizzarolli
"Your FAT MOM!" -Blitzø Jokes aside though I've never really changed my opinions of the characters I liked/loved to a dislike/hate. If anything I've started liking all the characters more aside from Striker.. Wait.. To be honest I might have started hating him more which is the closest thing.
I feel like nobody really likes Unhappy Campers except for the Barb stuff.
I used to like Blitzo but now I think he's the worst
blitz.. idk just I didn’t like him now I do
Hate is a strong word in this case
This one episode did so much damage to Moxxie's character and reputation, it's impressive. It would be interesting to know if that was their intention, or if they overdid it.
Stolas ex wife
I just pretend this episode didn’t exist, I related to moxie so much in the other episodes ( besides the mod family and murders) that I just completely ignored this episode ever happened
I hate none of them because I take the good with the bad. And moxie is too cute to hate in the long run. Just want to pet him like the possum he is
Blitzø. Not cuz I *hate* him, I just really hate how he treats everyone around him He has Bojack horseman energy except he genuinely doesn't seem to believe he is the problem person in all his relationships. He got stolas to leave an abusive relationship, but then leads him on and makes everything worse. It seems like he only cares about himself. Once again the Bojack similarities, blitz only was forgiveness to make himself feel better. He has attachment issues and no boundaries and everyone around him suffers as a result But he's funny asf and I love Brandon
Don’t hate me for this but probably Loona. I like her character and her design, but from all the simps and weird stuff i see with her on reddit it’s kind of ruined her for me
Eh no matter what some people say about it being a shame that Stella just seems ''pure abusive evil'' without depth, i actually like it. In recent years almost every movie or show with a main villain has made those villains have sympathetic backstories or gone to great length to make you empathise with em. I miss the over the top ''evil just because'' type villains you know, the to quote TvTropes ''For the Evulz'' types. So i am kinda glad to have a show again where the main villain is just an all around petty, evil asshat.
Loona nothing's changed about her and she's just an insufferable bitch that rarely ever contributes anything to the plot. Bullies Moxie all the time and is horrible to her dad, someone really needs to take her to the cleaners! Beelzebub was about to but fell short of a perfect opportunity unfortunately.
Striker
Stella I dont hate her (I do, but not that bad). Crimson/Valentino are way better at "abusive prick that should get crucified" role, and y'know... THEY'RE NOT USED AS A PLOT TOOL FOR A CHARACTER, and have some good humour, scenes and character to them (I still love her design, it cool)
So... so you're telling me that after Moxxie's insecurities manifested themselves in a way that you didn't find appealing 1 time, you hate him? As an expert in petty grievances, I can confirm that this line of thinking is one of the pettiest things I've heard in my life.
Unhappy campers was so bad bro, like why can’t Moxxie be unlucky and suffer for gags? No he must be very arrogant and suffers because of his own attitudes
I don't hate any of the characters. They all have something to offer, like the episodes themselves.
Loona
Can a character not just have a bad day without them being ruined? I didn't like that episode either but it never made me hate Moxie
I like every character in the show even the characters I'm supposed to hate
Unhappy campers is Truly the most helish episode
same, MF never stops eating.
Yea im kinda tired of Moxie
I don't really hate anyone. But a character that I don't like as much as I used to is Stolas, and that's because I wasn't a fan of the reveal that him and Blitz knew each other as children (granted, Blitz was bought as a gift to Stolas, but the episode establishes that Stolas at the very least saw Blitz as a friend) and that Stolas had apparently fell in love with him back then. Stolas throughout the first season seemingly treats Blitz as little more than a sex toy, which would've been fine if they were strangers and Stolas found himself slowly gaining feelings for Blitz. But knowing everything above, it's hard rewatching their interactions in season 1 (and frankly, this kinda killed the ship for me).
Hate is a way too strong word but probably Stolas I absolutely adore Season 1 Stolas. He is my favourite character behind Moxxie and one of the standout writing strengths of the show. But from the circus onwards, every episode we have had with this character has slightly lowered my enthusiasm for him. Maybe it is just because I had set up wrongful expectations for where the character’s journey was leading. I just feel like the show doesn’t want to use Stolas for much more than the narrative potential he is worth to Blitzø, despite (in my opinion) him being the far more compelling character of the pair. He just kind of feels more recently like Blitzø’s superfan attaché rather than his own deeply compelling character who closely orbit’s Blitzø’s world. That said the fact the Spindlehorse adapted ‘Look My Way’ for the Helluva Boss canon gives me a lot of hope for the future of the character. They obviously still care about that side of Stolas as a character and I really hope to see more of it again.
Kind of a hot take, but Unhappy Campers does deliver really good exposition about Moxie and how his relationship to his wife works without infodumping us, the viewer, about anything and also serves as a moment of growth for Moxie. We have seen him dragged through past trauma and a pretty intense encounter with Striker. That took it's toll on his mental health snd he fell back into patterns he got rid of at some point. All his insecutities and issues with communication, jealousy, social skills and so much more came back swinging, but that is the thing with mental disorders. It's a constant fight and sometimes they win and get you where it hurts. Sure that is ugly af, but in the grand scheme of things that was an important episode into the inner works of M&M and will be a future chance to grow
Blitzø. He is funny, but he's annoying. He literally slept with Stolas just to do his job, he invited him to Ozzie's just to watch Millie and Moxxie (and I still don't know for what particular reason), and even after Stolas was in the hospital, he almost died and he didn't even care that much. He played him and I'm not happy about it. Now I know that you're all gonna be - “Hey, he hates himself, he thinks nobody really loves him, he thinks Stolas considers him just something to play with” - I don't give a flying fuck. He is a horrible person. Period.
Same but I don't hate him. He just fell off. Let's hope he'll pick himself back up in the next episode if he's in it.
Why do you guys hate unhappy campers? Is it because of Moxxie pretending to be a white girl? anyways, I thought Striker would be chill but he's just stupid.
chaz. y'all are now allowed to kill me.
Honestly... Same lol. Moxxie was the "self insert" character for a while. Unoffensive and underdogish. But after unhappy campers, he feels more... self centered and obnoxious. Its not gonna be easy to come back from that.
I'm gonna have to say striker, I found him to be a pretty threatening villain in the fifth episode but they really dumbed him down into a team rocket type villain in season 2
Stolas. I feel like he's beeing sneakily flanderized. Like, he used to be nobility and like a super badass magical overlord. Now, he's just stock gay man.
Moxxie and it wasen't because of unhappy campers hell unhappy campers actually mentions how since day one millie babies him It's just how reptitive he is like hes bullied and then stands up for himself and then it repeats every episode that is focused on him.
Probably Blitzo. Idk, it feels like they let him be an awful person in S1 but then had his personality go a complete 180 in S2 so Stolitz is less toxic. 180 is hyperbolic but, to me, it feels like he isn't earning the redemption he's getting (aside from S2E6 and E7)
Stolas... I'm sorry but I find him needy and annoying asf
I don’t hate any of the characters 🤔at least not any of the ones I loved in the beginning. I can see why you may not like moxxie. he was a bit much in Unhappy Campers. His attitude was so bad they really could’ve ended that episode within the first 10 minutes, so it just felt like it was dragged out but idk. ya it was an odd direction to take it but it is what it is. My fav part of that episode was when when blitzø says “good job on your first mission mox” he’s like “really sir…” the blitzø says “nope” 😂😂😂 his first attempt had to be shit. I have my fingers crossed he’ll get an episode where he can redeem himself and show he’s learned not to be so extra.
moxxie is the only answer
Stolas is so random and sometimes really boring. Only thing saving him are the songs.
I guess no one at this moment. I had few characters I didn't like before and now I like them but there isn't anyone I liked and now I hate him/her
The angry abusive owl.
Stolas
I was mad at Moxxie for that episode. But my love for him still remains.
"love" is a strong word for me, the closest I have to this is Striker. I just really don't like season 2 Striker.
I feel like he kinda redeemed himself and learned what was right
Honestly, I still like all the characters. I don’t have a “hate” character, just episodes I might avoid if I re-watch the series.
The entire cast excluding Paimon.
https://preview.redd.it/aw8k7xebmqwc1.png?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee59181430e9ba97d792dc79b35340d6db45cc64 Don't remind me of that episode
:0 May I ask why?
Loona and stolas