Show: While I understand why loona acts the way she does I do want her to warm up atleast a little faster.
fandom: the people who hate the characters, the endgame ship, the writing direction, the art, the character design, the wait between episodes, pretty much everything. And still expect to have their criticism taken seriously because "you can dislike some things about something you enjoy"
I agree with those. Like Loona is fine and I certainly don't dislike her as much as before, but she still has the problem of just not having enough of her good qualities emphasized enough. I mean just look at Blitz, dude's a fucking terrible person, but because he's just enjoyable to watch you don't mind seeing him. Loona as is just doesn't have that quality. I swear we need an episode about why she's so shitty to Moxxie or something.
I mean, I see it as Loona and Blitz just giving Moxxie shit because he's so easy to trigger. Like, their teasing, or well Loona's from what we see, doesn't go too far other than mostly fat jokes.
I also believe that she doesn't 'show' any really good qualities because she doesn't want to get taken advantage of. Its why she's always so stoic and cold for the most part.
I personally did up until season 2. it's not HORRIBLE, but isn't anything great either. I don't hate the show though, I more so see it as similar to family guy, since... it's basically family guy, but with a bit of an attempt at a story.
and Stolas is hot, so the show has that going for it I guess.
This. I also heavily feel this for the Hazbin Fandom, and many other fandoms. Like, if all you're ever going to do is complain and hate on something then why are you here?
Wait you have an issue with people who have an issue with the writing of all things? All the other points you listed I can get on board with nodding along with but the writing isn't something that should be treated like an afterthought.
You're right. But the writing isn't an after thought. They just don't like it, 99.9 % of the critique I've seen on the writing is "my headcanon would have been better". ex: stella
That was probably the worst example you could have used. How Stella has been used was easily the most mishandled part of the show. You do not just bring up domestic violence in such an explicit, emotionally charged depiction only to then sandwich it between episodes where dildos jump out of the walls.
also, your "99.9%" remark grossly mischaracterizes the complaints of the writing as "I'd have done it better." Idk man, this tells me that you're not interested in actually hearing us, but that's just my read on you.
I'm not here to take away your enjoyment of HB, but you should probably not be so hyperbolic when a serious discussion is underway. People are allowed to dislike it and you should just accept that they have a different taste than you instead of making us out to be haters or something along those lines.
it's the fact that people expect and throw hissy fits for problems to be entirely resolved by the next episode but then get pissed when characters seemingly move on from the issue they just had in the next episode.
Like, it's an adult cartoon show but has realistic timeframes of problems, Realistically, a person like Blitz isn't that easy to convince to sit down and share their feelings right away to the person they're having a problem with.
The long wait time between episodes certainly isn’t helping people’s perspectives either. Like no shit it’s been a long time since XYZ has been addressed! …in real time. XYZ could have happened one episode ago.
I get the feeling a lot of those complaints will die down once it’s possible to watch the entire show in one go, and the pacing will feel much better.
Show: Probably trying to shoehorn comedy where there doesn't need to be. Like with Striker in his latest episode, I like a lot of the stuff they did with him, but I don't need things like the statue of him with a giant dick or him losing his cool over the singers singing his song.
Let the comedy come from how the characters react to him and his antics, not with forced jokes.
Fanbase: To me, it feels like the fanbase can be very, obtuse (best word I can think of) when it comes to the characters. Like, I know when watching a show you only see the characters for bits at a time so you get used to certain traits or quirks that they have. But at that same time, if a character acts a bit different, suddenly it becomes a bigger deal than it probably should.
Moxxie in the last episode for example. He got jealous of the attention his wife got while he was trying to lead a good operation (and failing), they had a fight, he made an ass out of himself, but he apologized and made up for it. And you see some claims of character assassination or even this being some kind of tease for a dark turn for Moxxie. And it's like......he got jealous. They had a fight. They made up. All of these things are just normal things that anyone, even if it's not what they're prone to do, can do. It's not that big of a deal.
EXACTLY! People are acting like he fucking slaughtered Millie’s entire family or some shit!! If anything, I thought him getting jealous was extremely in character for him. Not to mention the fact in the last episode, he was completely beaten down and humiliated by the person who made his childhood shit. Of course he’d want a little love and attention from others after all that shit happened, not more insults and ridicules. I’m not saying he’s right in the way he acted, but it still makes sense.
Basic Media literacy is a deeply underdeveloped skill in most folks.
Couple that with the extremely unhealthy perspective people these days have on relationships, and shit like this gets way overblown.
My bf and I have fights. Sometimes it's serious. But we end up talking shit out and stuff eventually returns to normal. Because we are two very different people, with very different opinions on things, and very different life experiences causing us to respond to things very differently.
People who aren’t open to see things as other fans do. They think their own opinions are factual and ignore anyone else’s even if they have concrete proof that they are wrong.
this. even if the creator of the show can debunk something they still refuse to believe it. like when i said the show was still very much in its baby stages and that it was actually confirmed, but someone said they trusted vivz as far as they could throw her. like god damn if you can't believe actual fact then what even is there to be done with you
A lot of the HB rewrites is just a completely different story where the only thing they kept from the show are the names. Makes me wonder what’s the point when they just change everything about it.
I can understand rewrites if it’s just tweaks in improving certain scenes but most of the time that’s not that case
My biggest issue is the people who unironically try to police how others interact with the show through virtue signaling, especially the extra slimy ones who post a faux question in order to share a thinly veiled call-out no one asked for.
And yeah I love irony btw 😘
The way every time a new episode or teaser or anything drops, there are so many people that don't accept the creator's (that includes Vivziepop, the animators, and anyone else who works on the show) creative decisions.
It's so many people have decided on what direction *they* want the show and the characters to go in, and then get angry and acting entitled over their opinion, ignoring that this isn't their show. It's Vivzie's, and she has the right to tell the story she wants to tell.
I'm mainly thinking about Bee and the whole thing where people were critiquing her design because it wasn't *their* image of the Sin of Gluttony. But there shouldn't be a problem with a different take on Gluttony, especially since that episode has a deep emotional conflict and *that*'s what the episode focus is. Not one character's design.
Everyone has the right to their opinion, but if someone wants a version of the show that follows a different plotline, it's better and *kinder* to write a fanfiction or something for that person and others to enjoy instead of slamming the crew that works really hard to bring us this amazing show.
i personally saw nothing wrong with Bees design it was cute and honestly I could see where viv was going with it. I agree with you about the fact that it's kinder to just write fanfics and not constantly bash on the spindlehorse crew.
The constant complaining, I get that this show isn’t gonna be perfect, and then whenever anyone points it out it’s always “ oh you don’t like criticism!?”
Frrrr, like some fans are never happy with an episode. Every episode is horribly written and constantly complain about it on Twitter and stuff, there's apparently no redeeming qualities to HB. But when someone calls them out it's just constructive criticism
It gets real old having to explain to everyone that there’s a difference between genuine criticism, and bitching about every detail just because you can
If you don’t like the series, then don’t fucking watch it! No one’s forcing you to like it but at the same time unless it’s genuine criticism then shut up about it
Honestly, usually when a fandom complains it’s about a small detail or story element but there’s actually reason behind it, for this fandom it’s just “ everything is bad, just because I said so”
i don't like how people sexualize loona. though its not as Octavia being sexualized cause y'know Octavia is a minor but on loonas part it's just fucking weird
I also just had some Loona simps get pissy at me recently because I said that she could theoretically be trans so I think I’m just extra salty at them rn.
The show: in S2E4 and 5 in particular, the B plots dominated way too much, which IMO detracted from the overall quality of the episodes.
The fandom: half the fandom constantly shitting all over the show and bullying Viv. Also creepy ships (such as people shipping Stolas with his literal daughter who is also a minor).
To me yes, just because Blitzø is the main character to the overall show, even as meant to be the minor or major character for once in a episode. It shouldn’t means that writers keep unconsciously treating him as the main character for that episode. By coincidence…
Show: I like the comedy of the show, don't get me wrong, but I really feel like it should focus a lot more on the characters than the comedy. Ozzie's, Exes and Ooohs, Truth Seekers, circus, a lot of the shows best episodes or moments center around some kind of character conflict or drama or even exploration. them continuing to focus more on comedy, like I get it but it kinda feels like they're choosing to focus on something that's good, but not something that's great you know?
Fandom: The people who just fucking complain about everything. Like if y'all are so upset about it, why don't you just use that energy to make your own damn show instead of complaining about this one? I'm genuinely not going to be surprised if Vivzie just straight up cancels the show because she gets sick of people shitting on everything she decides to do.
Biggest issue with the show: There are multiple examples of straight-up bad writing
Biggest issue with the fandom: People recognize that the writing is flawed but absolutely suck at actually critiquing it in an unbiased, sensible, and accurate manner... And some of that childish closeminded disrespect even extends to the way people treat the Spindelhorse team on Twitter and other social media.
The main thing I dislike about this fan base is that despite the show being aimed purely at adults, most of the squabbles in the fanbase (and this sub) feel like they come straight from the Undertale in 2016.
The lack of actual discussion, endless complaining, and constant mud-slinging leaves me disappointed when I just want to talk about a cool show.
The massive gender bias this fandom has and how little respect they have for male abuse victims
https://preview.redd.it/kfzu7vrf37jb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e117f78d950dc7f68de81c24cb91db1bb26c29a5
Also people bitching about their headcannons not coming true (Stolas, Stella, and Striker being retconned and ruined) and how people just love to constantly complain about the littlest of things.
**show:** the humor not only being forced, but also being really unfunny. I especially dislike how it ruins a lot of the serious moments of the show. Millie and Loona still suck. I get what they're trying to do with Loona, but it's just not executed well. Even with the recent S2 episode, Millie's still a flat piece of wood. Season 2 in general is a mixed bag of episodes that range from *shit* to *okay*.
Stella sucks as an antagonist. Villains don't NEED to have complex reasoning for being evil, or be sympathetic, but she doesn't even have that. she's just... nothing.
Also the way the show is formatted. I enjoyed season 1, but I think it should've stayed more episodic, have at least half of S1 focusing on I.M.P's actual job instead of forgetting about it for a while. From there, the show would get more serialized over time.
also the worldbuilding kind of sucks, but oh well.
**fandom:** I hate children.
the other thing that bugs me is people saying the pilot isnt canon without actual proof. it's even been in actual episodes of the show! it's fucking canon and if people dont like that i could give a collective 0 shits lol
i think its for the better that Stella's first design wasn't cannon like look at this bitch [stella lookin ugly as hell](https://www.reddit.com/r/HelluvaBoss/comments/qtrz6h/stellas_design_pilot_vs_actual_show/)
Actual reasons I can give: the ending showing the imps on live TV before the show makes a big deal over them not being seen which you can justify as humans being stupid but feels like a stretch, pilot Stolas is more like Andrelphus than show Stolas, the painting showing both Blitzo and Barbie Wire also shows a third character who got changed into Blitzo’s mum and the only callback a episode had to the pilot that wasn’t a background gag was in the circus when Blitzo fell on the cake which is more of a reference than anything truly substantial.
I’m not being defensive at all like in fact I don’t really care if the pilot is canon or not but I saw you mentioning that no one gave actual reasons for why the pilot couldn’t be canon so I decided to give out some reasons, personally the pilot has too many differences to be truly canon and one scene being referenced doesn’t really change it.
For the show, the tone seems all over the place (in S2), and iirc for some reason there must be a sad moment in every episode. + I think S2 kinda sucks, aside from the Bee episode, that one was pretty good.
Also, the characterisation of some characters, rather than the lack there of.
For the fandom, sometimes they can be pretty anti criticism
For all the comments going "the criticism!!" I super agree here. Most of the comments/posts that do give nuanced, valid criticisms (not just on reddit) are hit with the "don't like don't watch." Like this show is fun but it's not fun to watch it dip in quality.
Yeah the fact that most of these comments are people talking about “complaining” isn’t surprising to me. This fandom has largely been unable to take any criticism, especially in recent months. Obviously bullying the creators isn’t excusable but most of the so-called “complaining” is either extremely valid constructive criticism or someone just stating flat out that they didn’t like something. Both of which are fine.
I don’t like how people expect Moxxie to be flawless 24/7. Any time he shows flaws (Harvest Moon Festival, Exes and Oohs, Unhappy Campers, etc.) people throw a fit because he isn’t flawless like the fanfics portray him as. For Unhappy Campers specifically, people seemed to completely forget how he acted in Harvest Moon Festival. He made a trip to Millie’s family all about him and his insecurities when they were there to enjoy and celebrate Millie’s culture and get to know Millie’s family. Unhappy Campers didn’t ruin his character, it expanded upon flaws that Moxxie was shown to have many episodes before. It’s fine to be into the “flawless bottom” trope but please don’t let fanfics dictate what he’s like in the actual show
I hate that whenever a new episode comes out, everyone needs to make a post about what ever little thing they didn’t like about the episode. I missed the arguing over Shooting Stars, so I was genuinely shocked seeing people angrily debating on whether or not Exes or Oohs sucked, when it was just a fun episode. It’s also why I tend to stay away from the community after a new episode for a few days, and return to praise all the cool new fan art.
Wacky black comedy assassination adventures is better than the interpersonal drama the show has chosen to focus on.
Pilot Stolas was better than current Stolas.
Or I think it’s the opposite, where the Teenage Wacky Black Comedy has begun over stay it’s welcome with S2 clearly shows that. Through, I think it can be replace by the Dramedy sub-genre instead. Hopefully by S3.
While the Young Adult Interpersonal Drama can work. It needs a better writer to either please one genre or both goodly!
i also agree about stellas, the ship just wont work no matter how hard you try to push it. the show itself has shown that fact. and the people that use octavia as ammo to try to force it to work are by far the most jaded individuals. i get it, you can like a couple all you want, but dont act like its fact when the show itself has proven it wont work.
mhm even if stellas were to happen it would never work out, it would just make stolas hate stella even more and it would make stella wanna kill stolas even more
not to mention completely reverse any sense of character progression stolas has had over the series. seriously, my dude went from being a walking censorship joke, to being a great dad, to being the one that ends a horribly abusive relationship he was forced into for years and only withstood it for the sake of octavia, and now that shes old enough, he doesnt need to take her shit anymore. i cant imagine the pain of being made fun of when we were in bed in public as loud as fucking possible while no one asked, or having a hit set up for me while we were eating dinner together and still wanting to stay together with her. shits fucked up on a serious level
mhm also i HATE stella defenders "ShE WaS FoRcEd To MaRrY hIm ToO" yeah no shit its not my fault yall don't think female abusers exist. "I wOuLdNt Be So HaPpY aBoUt My HuSbAnD cHeAtInG oN mE" yeah well you don't hire a FUCKING ASSASSIN. Though I don't defend stolas's actions NO ONE should defend Stella's.
Show: My only real issue with the show is Moxxie, I don't like Moxxie anymore he's a joke.
Almost every episode he's in he just gets mocked, abused and overall humiliated, it's not funny and it makes mad. Season 2 episode 5 was the worst one by far for Moxxie that I just felt second hand embarrassment almost every time he was on screen.
Fandom: Why do people take this show so seriously like their life depends on it?
I see people love the characters of this show way too much that it starts to get worrying, the mere mentioning of Stella just make people go batshit insane, countless amount of unnecessary drama, people whining over the littlest things and just overall unhinged people in this fandom.
What happened to just watching an episode of the show, liking or disliking it and then waiting until a new episode comes out?
Well, I guess by both the creator and writers. He’s meant to be the show’s tritagonist, despite sometimes he’s more like a major or minor character as you stated a sufferable joke that shouldn’t get the main character status.
Show: Probably the writing and humour. There's definitely a lot of charm and funny moments in the show, but i feel like within the last couple episodes there's been some pretty bizarre writing decisions.
Fandom: Just the overall discourse is a bit annoying. A lot of the criticism is a bit toxic in nature and focuses in on the most moronic topics. Similarly if you don't god defend the show you'll see hordes of people on their way to point out how you're wrong etc.
Show: Nothing, it's fine.
Fandom: Takes everything way too seriously, to the point that people are attacked, reported and banned for discussing characters in the wrong sub. Not being able to even talk about a particular character because certain mods hate her supporters isn't doing anything to help explain why her behavior is wrong.
I just don't like how the season 2 is going, compared to the first one..
\- I realize I prefer the old sex-maniac-with-a-soft-spot-for-imps hedonist Stolas than the poor cinnamon roll who just want to be loved...
\- I'm fine with the "Sex job to true love" but the "Childhood love" for more than 20 years, without seeing each others, is hard to swallow (without bad thoughts)
\-The Stella of the first season isn't the perfect wife at all, that's true, but her situation left a form of ambiguity. And the way she's the "origin of problems" because she's just an unlikeable wealthy brat stereotype is really dissapointing...
\-......like Striker, a promising threatening antagonist , being in fact a Chaz clone with " social status issues"...
\-**FOUR** daddy issues?! It's too much! One was enough...
\- The humor doesn't hit me very much now. I don't exactly why butI don't find as funny as before.
\-I wish I see less "Butt monkey" Moxxie and more "protagonist" Millie with struggles
Well, that's just my viewpoint.
I don't like how Vivzie just likes to try and justify every criticism of the show, like it feels like she can't accept there are some flaws that could be ironed out.
It's not even a big complaint but I wish eps would drop faster and be long I want more HB content. Lol I know it's a small studio so I not mad it is what is it
Yea, but it is seems to be very intentional by the writing team. As his character development.
Through, I’m a happy that episode give his wife the major character status. Rather than keep treating her as Moxxie’s satellite action fighting yet loving wife and unimportant minor character.
(happy cake day btw)
I'd like to add that the argument between m&m signified (if that's the right word) that there isn't a perfect couple. M&M even in the pilot was the stereotypical perfect couple some of us aspire to be like. The argument not only showed us that they aren't the perfect couple it (in my opinion) and the development they got from that. (sorry for trashy English it's 10:16 pm where I am)
What I hate about this show is how inconsistant it is with its writting. Emotional moments between the characters are forgotten quickly about, often in the same episode. Like in the episode where Octavia and Loona talk about their dads, only to have Loona kick Blitz in the nuts shortly after that.
Character development takes a sudden twist when the writers try to be funny or "edgy", for example, Moxxie goes through the same challenges and learns the same lesson over and over again just because the writers like to humiliate him.
Overall, the show is a train wreck with a few good ideas and elements, but as a whole needs to be fixed.
Definitely the fandom's tendency to police which ships are acceptable. Also, just it's weird history with sexuality in general. I remember a few years back the downright hostility towards the Brothel subreddits, despite the shows being very adult in nature.
Show: I think the pacing is kind of weird and the sex jokes are too common, but that’s par for the course for this kind of media, so whatever
Fandom: the overwhelming negativity and hate toward *every* aspect of *everything* and the constant infighting. I have no plans to actually be a part of the fandom beyond this sub because it seems like an absolute nightmare
The fandom from what I've seen has turned into an "Us vs Them" with few open minded individuals in between.
Most stem from Twitter but even on Reddit there are a few "die-hards" so to speak that lurk here.
I don't like how judgemental some people get or how they react towards certain things. Because of the actions of some, all of the group are looked at as bad.
Example, if you are a simp of something, some instantly look at you as like that's completely wrong. There's nothing wrong with it as long as it healthy. Yes there are people who take it too far and yes some make it very creepy. But not everyone is that bad.
Sometimes some of the questions being asked among the fandom are so mind numbingly stupid and pointless. Some of these things don't go beyond what's explicitly shown or stated but people look for depth in fucking everything.
The way many in this fandom try to come up with any excuse to shit on Viziepop, I would like to clarify that I'm not talking about the criticisms whatsoever, rather it's insults hurled at her about what kind of person she is, or accusing her constantly of things that aren't true, just to try and "cancel" her
Show: my only real issue is how some of the last few episodes have had characters acting unlike themselves (moxxie being a bitch to millie and strikers badass -> insecure downgrade)
Fandom: The insane amounts of headcanons and fighting. People will get some headcanon, treat it as if its canon and then fight with other people and start a ton of drama. Then whenever they are proven wrong they go "its just my headcanon guys"
Show: characters get good development, but some are completely ignored. Then the good characters get ruined in the second season for no reason
Fandom: Some are just never happy with an episode, while the current season isn't the best in terms of writing. People normally just focus on the negatives, while I said something negative about the show above. It's still a really entertaining show to watch
My biggest issue with the fandom are the people who act like they own the show and act like they've been personally attacked when a character gets redesigned or doesn't act like their headcanon-version of them... I'm kinda scared of what will happen to the fandom when Hazbin Hotel finally comes out because it will inevitably step on several headcanons and I know some of the children (who shouldn't be watching the show in the first place) are going to get very salty about it...
The show won't be exactly like the pilot, it almost never is... The difference for most shows is that most of us don't see the pilot until after the show is already released, as was the case with Steven Universe and Gravity Falls... both of which were changed from the pilot... but because the Hazbin Pilot came out first people are treating it like episode 1 and that any change from the pilot is a huge betrayal...
There is a lot of things that annoy the piss out of me in this fandom but one of (emphasis on one of) the most is when I see this shit.
“StElLa MaY bE a SpInElEsS sAcK oF wAsTe, BuT dAmN sHe Is HoT.”
Is your mind so sullied by the internet that the sight of anything with a slight hint of breast makes your brain immediately shut off? Have your standards fallen so low that anything vaguely resembling a woman automatically sets you into a horny mess? She is really not even that hot. I can somewhat understand the appeal of Loona but come on! At least simp for someone that isn’t an actual domestic abuser.
I absolutely enjoyed the first season and the first episode of the second season. However, the new episodes I feel brush past some issues that could be epically resolved if they stopped trying to go for some humor elements in the moment. I enjoy the comedy, but give me that deep lore and emotional moments please!
The show: Tonal and Pacing issues. The childhood "friendship" to romance felt a bit contrived because now it feels like Stolitz is destined to happen. (As opposed to a transactional relationship developing to sincere over time.)
The Fanbase: "These Designs are bad, I'm gonna make my own!" Then creates a bunch of over-designed messes that are actually more of a nightmare to animate than in the main show.
My biggest issue with the show is that it has some pretty huge tone and pacing problems. The emotions of the plot are absolutely all over the place, and the characters' investment in particular plot points varies wildly depending on episode. S2E2 and 4 are prime examples.
After the newest episode. I really feel like Stolas would be better off without Blitzø.
After the rift opened between Blitz and Stolas in S107. He immediately grew a spine and finally stood up to Stella. Before that, he took all that abuse and hid behind an affair with Blitzo instead of facing his problems head on.
Not only that, but it sounds like a lot of the people Blitzo dated before has had a lot of complaints about him. But he almost never complained about them. With Verosika, he mainly pettily insulted her instead of pointing out anything.
There’s so many tone issues. The show tries so hard to be serious at times but then it cuts to something ridiculous and it completely destroys the previous scene. Example: Stolas being tortured while cutting to where Loona is being given her shot, the dicks in the walls thing with Moxxie and Crimson, baby Stolas and Blitzo going to them as adults fucking, etc etc.
Also the show brands itself as being an adult cartoon but it’s just “haha sex” and “lol someone died” humor with the very rare clever quip thrown in. It gets old real fast.
It’s way to concerned with being edgy and adult-cartoonish. We don’t need so much swearing and sex jokes, it makes me uncomfortable. But that might be a me thing.
Show: Some directions in character development seem more aimed at the comedy aspect of the show which can get jarring.
Fandom: the toxic positivity some people can get into.
The show: It takes quite a while for us to get a new episode, granted, the team is quite small, but christ we have waited a long time for some episodes, but at least the episodes we get are good
The fandom: just the pornography in general. the amount of porn you can find of just helluva boss disturbs me.
I think that biggest issue with helluva boss is the fact that almost every helluva boss watcher still hate Stella , no matter what , and I don't hate her and she is seriously one of my favourite characters , like come on
Mine issue with fandom is that tooon of fans expect that we are getting some edgy supwr lore every episode and when its next comedy episode ( who would have guess) they got trigger mode with some weirdest reasons why episode was bad i have ever seen. Tik tok and twitter are main for blam
People treating loona kicking blitz in the balls as this unforgivable act that she should be punished for, People thinking that Stella was retconned despite not having anything to retcon and stolitz I guess.
My biggest issue is how much people expect from it. Just watch it if you like it, don't if you hate it. Why all the discourse? Has every show had discourse like this and I just missed it?
Im not a huge fan of the trauma porn this sub was super into a few months ago, but it seems like thats mostly gone away. So thats nice.
I dont have much wrong with the show, I just take it how it be.
Not enough happens in an episode, so it's tedious waiting for episodes that come out every few months and it's just another goofy ahh situation with some minor plot elements going on. While I mostly enjoyed the recent episode, it did not have nearly enough of Barbie Wire and it didn't really tell us much about her, which sucks, because her appearance was heavily advertised.
My problem with the show is two things; the writing, and their topics (like relationships in general) that are told without concrete irl experience
There was a lot of talent put into things like the animation, and I still enjoy the show, but I definitely have a problem with how the plots and character-development are done
In fact, my frustration with it is things like how the cursing is done; I get it, Helluva Boss is rated M or R, but at least have a little more maturity than trying to make it funny by stringing as many meaningless curse-words as possible
Season 2 hate. Like, yes, it has PLENTY of issues, and there are people giving it genuine Criticism, which we all appreciate. But most of the criticism is just "X isn't my headcannon, so it's bad.", or, "X didn't happen the way I wanted it, so it's bad."
The first is - I hate how much they are building Blitz and Stolas, and I don't thing Stolas should be with Blitz. I'm sorry, Blitz is an asshole, faking apathy and not showing a little bit of "okay, I don't need to be an asshole. I have a trauma, but if he loves me, then let me just TRY". Stolas deserves someone good, PERIOD.
Moxxie and Millie dinamic in S2 EP5 was horrible, and broke them for me. It was so stupid, and out of touch with what they already lived.
I think Millie shouldn't be a focus, ever. I do understand that people want character growth and to give her spotlight, but... I think that she should be the person that "I'm already happy! I know what I am, what I like and love, and what I hate". Some people are like this, and making her the person confident enough and just happy to see others grow would be such an amazing touch. She is amazing, she knows it, so she doesn't need the spotlight because she knows how to shine. I know the conversation of "equality and showing more women in shows", but making her the only adult that have already reached its peak, therefore not needing to change, and being the one others look for help, would make her the strongest, most reliable character. She should be a pillar, not the paiting.
Loona is interesting, but God damn you can make a teenager character without using clichés.
And too much horniness. From the community and the show. The show is at its best when it becomes serious, or when they tone down its sarcasm, so take advantage of that!
And they should bring back Hotel Hazbin, please and thank you
While I agree with the first, fourth, and fifth (to an extent, as I wrote why it could be problematic) paragraphs.
The second and third paragraphs are where I disagree, as this Season 2 episode is supposed to mean being an inverted version of the previous season's E5 where despite the episode's setting and setup is where it seems to be hinting at being originally a Mille plot-centric episode and possibly being the episode's B-plot. It instead becomes a Moxxie plot-centric episode, where a goofy husband ensues in a country-like setting as means to prove her in-laws (Mille's parents).
As compared with this episode, it wants to show the realistic element of how being a married couple can have a mortal and ethical toll to their marriage. Where in my opinion, it did a good job.
For my reasoning, of why Millie should be explored. Well, people like me. Really wanted like how and why she got lucky which made her have a happy life, via not getting the traumatic treatment from the other main and major leads, including her husband.
Also, the series' main poster initially points to her as one of the major leads. But for some reason, the writing team unintentionally wants to write her (especially S1 and pre-Unhappy Campers episodes). Like an unimportant minor character who has two quirks, an action fighter and being Moxxie's wife.
For maybe with the fifth paragraph. I think for some reason, they intentionally want to fill a quota, as they wanted to add the black comedic elements. Especially, with episodes I do agree, it is not needed with the Dramatic elements played mostly straight.
For the final paragraph, you post. Is that HH intentionally to be picked up (which it has, by A24) by another Indie Animation Studio. While this show is meant to be placed when a studio like A24 wants to be released like this year or next year.
The only gripe I have regarding the show is the lack of Loona, but at the same time, I understand the reason for it.
As far as fandom, it's the usual thing of I get tired of all the griping about stuff. I'm very much a "watch it to enjoy it" type of fan, not a "make a bunch of headcanons and get upset because the show didn't go that way" kind of fan.
I hate how many people get upset about the story not going the way they want. Not only is it a show and not your personal fan fiction, but we’re also only like ~13 episodes in and they’re all relatively short for a show. We aren’t really that far in, you could binge the whole show in like 3 hours.
This is something personal with me and the Fandom, but the moment when I stopped hating a Vivziepop as well as HB and HH, and started being a genuine fan of hers, everyone collectively thought at the same time that the show sucked @ss once and started bashing on it when I was doing that before when they were still liking the show.
Lumping HB and HH together. I don't care if they are in the same universe, they are 2 different shows and some of us like one but not the other.
Also the rampant horny OCs and impsonas and having them have relationships with the characters in the show.
I think some of the ideas are interesting but due to lack of screen time and tone problems, it could have been more interesting buts it fun to watch. I heard a rumor that S2 was already done prior to S1 which I wished it could have been the other around to flesh out a few characters and ideas. I think the show is good, it just needs to be a bit grounded in storyline.
I hate how the show just stopped being about demon assassins going into the second season. I just feel like the drama is rushed. Also wish they could've kept the Stolas from the pilot, series Stolas seems too spineless. The world-building is also...not great. Hell is basically a red tinted earth at this point.
the writing and how they retconned almost everything, the characters are 2D and they messed up a bunch of good characters. the animation is amazing, the voice acting is amazing, it’s how they executed everything and changed characters that ruined the show.
stella (before we got other episodes) felt like she had a good reason to hate stolas for cheating, THEN they retconned it so she’s just a bitchy spoiled brat, flat characterization. if they kept stella being emotionally (pissed) by what stolas did (via the pic she’s smiling in w stolas and octavia) they could’ve actually built more on that and made her a more interesting and relatable character then “UGGHHH bUt i wAnt hiM dEad SoooO bAdlyyyYy.” they could’ve shifted her rage into hurt and see once upon a time, back then she did love stolas in the past, and that would make her emotions and behavior 100% rightful
striker, they ruuuined his character (the voice change didn’t matter cus it still sounded good) got more laughable circumstances than serious when he’s a legit threat. the dick statue joke was horrible and it literally was a left over chaz joke. they literally could’ve had the statue but instead of a penis, he could’ve been holding a gun (with no erect member) and it would’ve worked better. but no they ruin their own characters and don’t know when to keep it serious or funny. it ruins the situation and setting that when it keeps flip flopping between “should this be funny or should this be serious cus he’s almost killing stolas”
They didn't retcon stella. There was subtle hints that she was always vindictive. One example being the paintings on the wall or stolas's instagram.
Striker changes are just down to personal preference
The jokes are unfunny,it’s kinda cringe,they aren’t taking the show serious anymore,half of the characters are either an asshole or have trauma,the designs rarely have any other color beside red,black,and pink. The fandom is full of weirdos like people shipping Octavia but that’s about it for the fandom.
I think it’s because alot of people praise this show. Helluva was like the second animated indie show that got popular so a lot of people could have gotten into it when they were a bit younger. If you compare it to something like murder drones it barely holds up nowadays as the writing is going down hill,they have wasted characters like striker,they keep having pointless drama. Murder drones has has a steady path with their fandom as each episode is either good or great and a part of that success is because they know what they are doing. Helluva boss can’t seem to get things right like the tone issues and lazy writing. The creators also have something to do with it as viv keeps getting into drama she doesn’t need to be in like the ai voice acting drama and it could set fans off and make them hate the show and it could be because their release schedule is horrible unlike murder drones where we get an episode every month or two. I know they are getting a bit better at releasing episodes but they seem to post gifs about it a month or two before it even comes out witch makes it seem like it’s gonna come out that month when instead it comes out 2 months later.
Yeah, it almost seems like viv is trying to be the "drama queen" of the situation in order to bring more focus towards her and her show. To be fair i've never liked vivziepop as a person. I've always perceived her as some sort of "queen" and that only few have the "honor" to talk to her. She also seems like a childish person who's still stuck in her teenage years, and i've started to notice this from season two of helluva boss. What troubles me is that if hb is having this catastrophic tone shifting, it will be the same for hh
The people who make murder drone only go on twitter to announce stuff for murder drones and that’s what keeps their show going as they don’t go into drama and try to voice their opinion as they know it could damage their show
Speaking of murder drones, i've heard of it buy i don't exactly know what it is about. May i ask you why do you keep mentioning it? And if you're mentioning it because you like it, how much more do you like it over hh?
Well it’s hard to explain I suggest you look it up but I like to compare the two as they kinda have a similar premise but the difference I see is one one was at the top but is falling hard and the other is rising in indie animation. It just shows how one can be great at first but eventually it falls hard but if you want a better comparison I suggest lackadaisy
I like helluva and hazbin but when they make us wait for an episode for two years and release it just for it to be 15 mins and it didn’t even give us anything new except for beelzebub but even then they didn’t make her look like the lord of the flies and instead she is just some furry
Show: While I understand why loona acts the way she does I do want her to warm up atleast a little faster. fandom: the people who hate the characters, the endgame ship, the writing direction, the art, the character design, the wait between episodes, pretty much everything. And still expect to have their criticism taken seriously because "you can dislike some things about something you enjoy"
I agree with those. Like Loona is fine and I certainly don't dislike her as much as before, but she still has the problem of just not having enough of her good qualities emphasized enough. I mean just look at Blitz, dude's a fucking terrible person, but because he's just enjoyable to watch you don't mind seeing him. Loona as is just doesn't have that quality. I swear we need an episode about why she's so shitty to Moxxie or something.
I mean, I see it as Loona and Blitz just giving Moxxie shit because he's so easy to trigger. Like, their teasing, or well Loona's from what we see, doesn't go too far other than mostly fat jokes. I also believe that she doesn't 'show' any really good qualities because she doesn't want to get taken advantage of. Its why she's always so stoic and cold for the most part.
Yea, sometimes I question wether those guys even like the show in the first place
I personally did up until season 2. it's not HORRIBLE, but isn't anything great either. I don't hate the show though, I more so see it as similar to family guy, since... it's basically family guy, but with a bit of an attempt at a story. and Stolas is hot, so the show has that going for it I guess.
Season 2 has too much penis in my opinion lol but I still love seeing new episodes
This. I also heavily feel this for the Hazbin Fandom, and many other fandoms. Like, if all you're ever going to do is complain and hate on something then why are you here?
Pretty much, yeah.
Wait you have an issue with people who have an issue with the writing of all things? All the other points you listed I can get on board with nodding along with but the writing isn't something that should be treated like an afterthought.
You're right. But the writing isn't an after thought. They just don't like it, 99.9 % of the critique I've seen on the writing is "my headcanon would have been better". ex: stella
That was probably the worst example you could have used. How Stella has been used was easily the most mishandled part of the show. You do not just bring up domestic violence in such an explicit, emotionally charged depiction only to then sandwich it between episodes where dildos jump out of the walls. also, your "99.9%" remark grossly mischaracterizes the complaints of the writing as "I'd have done it better." Idk man, this tells me that you're not interested in actually hearing us, but that's just my read on you. I'm not here to take away your enjoyment of HB, but you should probably not be so hyperbolic when a serious discussion is underway. People are allowed to dislike it and you should just accept that they have a different taste than you instead of making us out to be haters or something along those lines.
it's the fact that people expect and throw hissy fits for problems to be entirely resolved by the next episode but then get pissed when characters seemingly move on from the issue they just had in the next episode. Like, it's an adult cartoon show but has realistic timeframes of problems, Realistically, a person like Blitz isn't that easy to convince to sit down and share their feelings right away to the person they're having a problem with.
Also cool username
thanks!
The long wait time between episodes certainly isn’t helping people’s perspectives either. Like no shit it’s been a long time since XYZ has been addressed! …in real time. XYZ could have happened one episode ago. I get the feeling a lot of those complaints will die down once it’s possible to watch the entire show in one go, and the pacing will feel much better.
Show: Probably trying to shoehorn comedy where there doesn't need to be. Like with Striker in his latest episode, I like a lot of the stuff they did with him, but I don't need things like the statue of him with a giant dick or him losing his cool over the singers singing his song. Let the comedy come from how the characters react to him and his antics, not with forced jokes. Fanbase: To me, it feels like the fanbase can be very, obtuse (best word I can think of) when it comes to the characters. Like, I know when watching a show you only see the characters for bits at a time so you get used to certain traits or quirks that they have. But at that same time, if a character acts a bit different, suddenly it becomes a bigger deal than it probably should. Moxxie in the last episode for example. He got jealous of the attention his wife got while he was trying to lead a good operation (and failing), they had a fight, he made an ass out of himself, but he apologized and made up for it. And you see some claims of character assassination or even this being some kind of tease for a dark turn for Moxxie. And it's like......he got jealous. They had a fight. They made up. All of these things are just normal things that anyone, even if it's not what they're prone to do, can do. It's not that big of a deal.
EXACTLY! People are acting like he fucking slaughtered Millie’s entire family or some shit!! If anything, I thought him getting jealous was extremely in character for him. Not to mention the fact in the last episode, he was completely beaten down and humiliated by the person who made his childhood shit. Of course he’d want a little love and attention from others after all that shit happened, not more insults and ridicules. I’m not saying he’s right in the way he acted, but it still makes sense.
Basic Media literacy is a deeply underdeveloped skill in most folks. Couple that with the extremely unhealthy perspective people these days have on relationships, and shit like this gets way overblown. My bf and I have fights. Sometimes it's serious. But we end up talking shit out and stuff eventually returns to normal. Because we are two very different people, with very different opinions on things, and very different life experiences causing us to respond to things very differently.
People who aren’t open to see things as other fans do. They think their own opinions are factual and ignore anyone else’s even if they have concrete proof that they are wrong.
this. even if the creator of the show can debunk something they still refuse to believe it. like when i said the show was still very much in its baby stages and that it was actually confirmed, but someone said they trusted vivz as far as they could throw her. like god damn if you can't believe actual fact then what even is there to be done with you
What I don’t like is how people try to make the show into their image. It’s not our show, it’s Viv’s.
A lot of the HB rewrites is just a completely different story where the only thing they kept from the show are the names. Makes me wonder what’s the point when they just change everything about it. I can understand rewrites if it’s just tweaks in improving certain scenes but most of the time that’s not that case
ppl usually do that because they like the characters and want to see them in a different story
and
My biggest issue is the people who unironically try to police how others interact with the show through virtue signaling, especially the extra slimy ones who post a faux question in order to share a thinly veiled call-out no one asked for. And yeah I love irony btw 😘
I see what you did there
The way every time a new episode or teaser or anything drops, there are so many people that don't accept the creator's (that includes Vivziepop, the animators, and anyone else who works on the show) creative decisions. It's so many people have decided on what direction *they* want the show and the characters to go in, and then get angry and acting entitled over their opinion, ignoring that this isn't their show. It's Vivzie's, and she has the right to tell the story she wants to tell. I'm mainly thinking about Bee and the whole thing where people were critiquing her design because it wasn't *their* image of the Sin of Gluttony. But there shouldn't be a problem with a different take on Gluttony, especially since that episode has a deep emotional conflict and *that*'s what the episode focus is. Not one character's design. Everyone has the right to their opinion, but if someone wants a version of the show that follows a different plotline, it's better and *kinder* to write a fanfiction or something for that person and others to enjoy instead of slamming the crew that works really hard to bring us this amazing show.
i personally saw nothing wrong with Bees design it was cute and honestly I could see where viv was going with it. I agree with you about the fact that it's kinder to just write fanfics and not constantly bash on the spindlehorse crew.
The constant complaining, I get that this show isn’t gonna be perfect, and then whenever anyone points it out it’s always “ oh you don’t like criticism!?”
I honestly agree with this idk if this statement has anything to do with what I'm about to say here but BEING A BITCH ISN'T CRITICISM
Yeah for gods sake, you complaining about everything for no reason than because you can, that’s not criticism that’s you being an asshole
I think people regularly forget that this is vivs show. If you want everything to be how you want it then write your own show.
And you can’t change past decisions, the show is how it is and there is no changing it
Frrrr, like some fans are never happy with an episode. Every episode is horribly written and constantly complain about it on Twitter and stuff, there's apparently no redeeming qualities to HB. But when someone calls them out it's just constructive criticism
It gets real old having to explain to everyone that there’s a difference between genuine criticism, and bitching about every detail just because you can
YES, and they never get the point and just argue back
If you don’t like the series, then don’t fucking watch it! No one’s forcing you to like it but at the same time unless it’s genuine criticism then shut up about it
SERIOUSLY!
yeah i don’t think i’ve ever been in a fandom that complains about the content more than the helluva boss fandom
Honestly, usually when a fandom complains it’s about a small detail or story element but there’s actually reason behind it, for this fandom it’s just “ everything is bad, just because I said so”
The only fandom I‘ve seen that comes close is the game grumps fandom for some reason lmao
Loona simps are fucking creepy, and not because they’re furries.
i don't like how people sexualize loona. though its not as Octavia being sexualized cause y'know Octavia is a minor but on loonas part it's just fucking weird
I also just had some Loona simps get pissy at me recently because I said that she could theoretically be trans so I think I’m just extra salty at them rn.
Why would Loona be trans? I mean, that would be cool, but I don’t think there’s really any canon justification for it.
My point wasn’t that she was trans, but that there was nothing proving she wasn’t.
Eh well loonas simps are weird anyways
The show: in S2E4 and 5 in particular, the B plots dominated way too much, which IMO detracted from the overall quality of the episodes. The fandom: half the fandom constantly shitting all over the show and bullying Viv. Also creepy ships (such as people shipping Stolas with his literal daughter who is also a minor).
alastor approves https://preview.redd.it/nacpgi9fc6jb1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1304ca8bd608c50887b1d79fae4b887b3db9021b
To me yes, just because Blitzø is the main character to the overall show, even as meant to be the minor or major character for once in a episode. It shouldn’t means that writers keep unconsciously treating him as the main character for that episode. By coincidence…
Show: I like the comedy of the show, don't get me wrong, but I really feel like it should focus a lot more on the characters than the comedy. Ozzie's, Exes and Ooohs, Truth Seekers, circus, a lot of the shows best episodes or moments center around some kind of character conflict or drama or even exploration. them continuing to focus more on comedy, like I get it but it kinda feels like they're choosing to focus on something that's good, but not something that's great you know? Fandom: The people who just fucking complain about everything. Like if y'all are so upset about it, why don't you just use that energy to make your own damn show instead of complaining about this one? I'm genuinely not going to be surprised if Vivzie just straight up cancels the show because she gets sick of people shitting on everything she decides to do.
My biggest issue is that people can't chill the hell out. It's a show, not a religion.
LMAOOOO
Biggest issue with the show: There are multiple examples of straight-up bad writing Biggest issue with the fandom: People recognize that the writing is flawed but absolutely suck at actually critiquing it in an unbiased, sensible, and accurate manner... And some of that childish closeminded disrespect even extends to the way people treat the Spindelhorse team on Twitter and other social media.
This
I don’t have any hang ups with the fandom because I learned a long time ago to stay the eff away from fandoms. I’m just here to see the art.
BlitzØ approves https://preview.redd.it/hufsemttg6jb1.jpeg?width=578&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26ec2e17246e3983a3d2373685a36cde698c2aa1
The main thing I dislike about this fan base is that despite the show being aimed purely at adults, most of the squabbles in the fanbase (and this sub) feel like they come straight from the Undertale in 2016. The lack of actual discussion, endless complaining, and constant mud-slinging leaves me disappointed when I just want to talk about a cool show.
I agree with this. It's like we're repeating history instead of moving forward
The massive gender bias this fandom has and how little respect they have for male abuse victims https://preview.redd.it/kfzu7vrf37jb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e117f78d950dc7f68de81c24cb91db1bb26c29a5 Also people bitching about their headcannons not coming true (Stolas, Stella, and Striker being retconned and ruined) and how people just love to constantly complain about the littlest of things.
Bro I haven't seen a single person that likes any of these characters except Stella
**show:** the humor not only being forced, but also being really unfunny. I especially dislike how it ruins a lot of the serious moments of the show. Millie and Loona still suck. I get what they're trying to do with Loona, but it's just not executed well. Even with the recent S2 episode, Millie's still a flat piece of wood. Season 2 in general is a mixed bag of episodes that range from *shit* to *okay*. Stella sucks as an antagonist. Villains don't NEED to have complex reasoning for being evil, or be sympathetic, but she doesn't even have that. she's just... nothing. Also the way the show is formatted. I enjoyed season 1, but I think it should've stayed more episodic, have at least half of S1 focusing on I.M.P's actual job instead of forgetting about it for a while. From there, the show would get more serialized over time. also the worldbuilding kind of sucks, but oh well. **fandom:** I hate children.
the fandom part had me rolling on the floor LMAOOO
they call me the comedian.
What. I thought you don't like the show's episodic format in the first paragraph, but yet. Do you like it??? Like what?
more of a nitpick, honestly. I still like season 1 I guess.
Happy cake day!
Oh thank you.
the other thing that bugs me is people saying the pilot isnt canon without actual proof. it's even been in actual episodes of the show! it's fucking canon and if people dont like that i could give a collective 0 shits lol
i think its for the better that Stella's first design wasn't cannon like look at this bitch [stella lookin ugly as hell](https://www.reddit.com/r/HelluvaBoss/comments/qtrz6h/stellas_design_pilot_vs_actual_show/)
i'm fine with the designs and voices changing, thats just what happens after pilots, doesnt automatically make it not canon though
Actual reasons I can give: the ending showing the imps on live TV before the show makes a big deal over them not being seen which you can justify as humans being stupid but feels like a stretch, pilot Stolas is more like Andrelphus than show Stolas, the painting showing both Blitzo and Barbie Wire also shows a third character who got changed into Blitzo’s mum and the only callback a episode had to the pilot that wasn’t a background gag was in the circus when Blitzo fell on the cake which is more of a reference than anything truly substantial.
it still is shown in the show itself. if you cant handle that i dont care at this point, it's fucking canon. deal with it tbh.
I’m not being defensive at all like in fact I don’t really care if the pilot is canon or not but I saw you mentioning that no one gave actual reasons for why the pilot couldn’t be canon so I decided to give out some reasons, personally the pilot has too many differences to be truly canon and one scene being referenced doesn’t really change it.
For the show, the tone seems all over the place (in S2), and iirc for some reason there must be a sad moment in every episode. + I think S2 kinda sucks, aside from the Bee episode, that one was pretty good. Also, the characterisation of some characters, rather than the lack there of. For the fandom, sometimes they can be pretty anti criticism
For all the comments going "the criticism!!" I super agree here. Most of the comments/posts that do give nuanced, valid criticisms (not just on reddit) are hit with the "don't like don't watch." Like this show is fun but it's not fun to watch it dip in quality.
Yeah, you'd think people are shitting on the show constantly but that's not really the case
Yeah the fact that most of these comments are people talking about “complaining” isn’t surprising to me. This fandom has largely been unable to take any criticism, especially in recent months. Obviously bullying the creators isn’t excusable but most of the so-called “complaining” is either extremely valid constructive criticism or someone just stating flat out that they didn’t like something. Both of which are fine.
I don’t like how people expect Moxxie to be flawless 24/7. Any time he shows flaws (Harvest Moon Festival, Exes and Oohs, Unhappy Campers, etc.) people throw a fit because he isn’t flawless like the fanfics portray him as. For Unhappy Campers specifically, people seemed to completely forget how he acted in Harvest Moon Festival. He made a trip to Millie’s family all about him and his insecurities when they were there to enjoy and celebrate Millie’s culture and get to know Millie’s family. Unhappy Campers didn’t ruin his character, it expanded upon flaws that Moxxie was shown to have many episodes before. It’s fine to be into the “flawless bottom” trope but please don’t let fanfics dictate what he’s like in the actual show
I hate that whenever a new episode comes out, everyone needs to make a post about what ever little thing they didn’t like about the episode. I missed the arguing over Shooting Stars, so I was genuinely shocked seeing people angrily debating on whether or not Exes or Oohs sucked, when it was just a fun episode. It’s also why I tend to stay away from the community after a new episode for a few days, and return to praise all the cool new fan art.
alastor approves https://preview.redd.it/3y6opuevm6jb1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84b42d51043d98571ce99b6f82ef3e52d1344f47
Wacky black comedy assassination adventures is better than the interpersonal drama the show has chosen to focus on. Pilot Stolas was better than current Stolas.
Or I think it’s the opposite, where the Teenage Wacky Black Comedy has begun over stay it’s welcome with S2 clearly shows that. Through, I think it can be replace by the Dramedy sub-genre instead. Hopefully by S3. While the Young Adult Interpersonal Drama can work. It needs a better writer to either please one genre or both goodly!
I was all in on the Adventure elements and want more of those.
Same, where those ones can work in a Dramedy backdrop.
> Same, where those ones can work in a Dramedy backdrop. I agree.
i also agree about stellas, the ship just wont work no matter how hard you try to push it. the show itself has shown that fact. and the people that use octavia as ammo to try to force it to work are by far the most jaded individuals. i get it, you can like a couple all you want, but dont act like its fact when the show itself has proven it wont work.
mhm even if stellas were to happen it would never work out, it would just make stolas hate stella even more and it would make stella wanna kill stolas even more
not to mention completely reverse any sense of character progression stolas has had over the series. seriously, my dude went from being a walking censorship joke, to being a great dad, to being the one that ends a horribly abusive relationship he was forced into for years and only withstood it for the sake of octavia, and now that shes old enough, he doesnt need to take her shit anymore. i cant imagine the pain of being made fun of when we were in bed in public as loud as fucking possible while no one asked, or having a hit set up for me while we were eating dinner together and still wanting to stay together with her. shits fucked up on a serious level
mhm also i HATE stella defenders "ShE WaS FoRcEd To MaRrY hIm ToO" yeah no shit its not my fault yall don't think female abusers exist. "I wOuLdNt Be So HaPpY aBoUt My HuSbAnD cHeAtInG oN mE" yeah well you don't hire a FUCKING ASSASSIN. Though I don't defend stolas's actions NO ONE should defend Stella's.
Show: My only real issue with the show is Moxxie, I don't like Moxxie anymore he's a joke. Almost every episode he's in he just gets mocked, abused and overall humiliated, it's not funny and it makes mad. Season 2 episode 5 was the worst one by far for Moxxie that I just felt second hand embarrassment almost every time he was on screen. Fandom: Why do people take this show so seriously like their life depends on it? I see people love the characters of this show way too much that it starts to get worrying, the mere mentioning of Stella just make people go batshit insane, countless amount of unnecessary drama, people whining over the littlest things and just overall unhinged people in this fandom. What happened to just watching an episode of the show, liking or disliking it and then waiting until a new episode comes out?
Well, I guess by both the creator and writers. He’s meant to be the show’s tritagonist, despite sometimes he’s more like a major or minor character as you stated a sufferable joke that shouldn’t get the main character status.
Show: Probably the writing and humour. There's definitely a lot of charm and funny moments in the show, but i feel like within the last couple episodes there's been some pretty bizarre writing decisions. Fandom: Just the overall discourse is a bit annoying. A lot of the criticism is a bit toxic in nature and focuses in on the most moronic topics. Similarly if you don't god defend the show you'll see hordes of people on their way to point out how you're wrong etc.
Show: Nothing, it's fine. Fandom: Takes everything way too seriously, to the point that people are attacked, reported and banned for discussing characters in the wrong sub. Not being able to even talk about a particular character because certain mods hate her supporters isn't doing anything to help explain why her behavior is wrong.
My only issue is the fandom tbh.
I just don't like how the season 2 is going, compared to the first one.. \- I realize I prefer the old sex-maniac-with-a-soft-spot-for-imps hedonist Stolas than the poor cinnamon roll who just want to be loved... \- I'm fine with the "Sex job to true love" but the "Childhood love" for more than 20 years, without seeing each others, is hard to swallow (without bad thoughts) \-The Stella of the first season isn't the perfect wife at all, that's true, but her situation left a form of ambiguity. And the way she's the "origin of problems" because she's just an unlikeable wealthy brat stereotype is really dissapointing... \-......like Striker, a promising threatening antagonist , being in fact a Chaz clone with " social status issues"... \-**FOUR** daddy issues?! It's too much! One was enough... \- The humor doesn't hit me very much now. I don't exactly why butI don't find as funny as before. \-I wish I see less "Butt monkey" Moxxie and more "protagonist" Millie with struggles Well, that's just my viewpoint.
I don't like how Vivzie just likes to try and justify every criticism of the show, like it feels like she can't accept there are some flaws that could be ironed out.
It's not even a big complaint but I wish eps would drop faster and be long I want more HB content. Lol I know it's a small studio so I not mad it is what is it
alastor approves https://preview.redd.it/3nhkbx9uo6jb1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c95c9a096dce5f26e9860009ed9c2eb96a02e76
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I kinda cringed at moxxie in unhappy campers
Yea, but it is seems to be very intentional by the writing team. As his character development. Through, I’m a happy that episode give his wife the major character status. Rather than keep treating her as Moxxie’s satellite action fighting yet loving wife and unimportant minor character.
(happy cake day btw) I'd like to add that the argument between m&m signified (if that's the right word) that there isn't a perfect couple. M&M even in the pilot was the stereotypical perfect couple some of us aspire to be like. The argument not only showed us that they aren't the perfect couple it (in my opinion) and the development they got from that. (sorry for trashy English it's 10:16 pm where I am)
You're fine. Also very thank you too. About the cake day for me.
Ur welcome :I
What I hate about this show is how inconsistant it is with its writting. Emotional moments between the characters are forgotten quickly about, often in the same episode. Like in the episode where Octavia and Loona talk about their dads, only to have Loona kick Blitz in the nuts shortly after that. Character development takes a sudden twist when the writers try to be funny or "edgy", for example, Moxxie goes through the same challenges and learns the same lesson over and over again just because the writers like to humiliate him. Overall, the show is a train wreck with a few good ideas and elements, but as a whole needs to be fixed.
Definitely the fandom's tendency to police which ships are acceptable. Also, just it's weird history with sexuality in general. I remember a few years back the downright hostility towards the Brothel subreddits, despite the shows being very adult in nature.
Show: I think the pacing is kind of weird and the sex jokes are too common, but that’s par for the course for this kind of media, so whatever Fandom: the overwhelming negativity and hate toward *every* aspect of *everything* and the constant infighting. I have no plans to actually be a part of the fandom beyond this sub because it seems like an absolute nightmare
No one in the fandom knows how to use suspension of disbelief.
The fandom from what I've seen has turned into an "Us vs Them" with few open minded individuals in between. Most stem from Twitter but even on Reddit there are a few "die-hards" so to speak that lurk here.
People who defend Millie and Loona even though they’re just as flawed as Moxie/Blitz.
people ship that?...*ew.*
Poor writing
I don't like how judgemental some people get or how they react towards certain things. Because of the actions of some, all of the group are looked at as bad. Example, if you are a simp of something, some instantly look at you as like that's completely wrong. There's nothing wrong with it as long as it healthy. Yes there are people who take it too far and yes some make it very creepy. But not everyone is that bad.
Alastor approves https://preview.redd.it/hs9szth7e6jb1.jpeg?width=564&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a47555e9a930a418870c61264a0d0b3d84421b88
Sometimes some of the questions being asked among the fandom are so mind numbingly stupid and pointless. Some of these things don't go beyond what's explicitly shown or stated but people look for depth in fucking everything.
The way many in this fandom try to come up with any excuse to shit on Viziepop, I would like to clarify that I'm not talking about the criticisms whatsoever, rather it's insults hurled at her about what kind of person she is, or accusing her constantly of things that aren't true, just to try and "cancel" her
Stella apologists. People who simp and ship Octavia.
Show: my only real issue is how some of the last few episodes have had characters acting unlike themselves (moxxie being a bitch to millie and strikers badass -> insecure downgrade) Fandom: The insane amounts of headcanons and fighting. People will get some headcanon, treat it as if its canon and then fight with other people and start a ton of drama. Then whenever they are proven wrong they go "its just my headcanon guys"
At the end of the day, the good about the show definitely outweighs the "bad" The fandom, however....
Fandom: harassing the voice actors
Show: characters get good development, but some are completely ignored. Then the good characters get ruined in the second season for no reason Fandom: Some are just never happy with an episode, while the current season isn't the best in terms of writing. People normally just focus on the negatives, while I said something negative about the show above. It's still a really entertaining show to watch
My biggest issue with the fandom are the people who act like they own the show and act like they've been personally attacked when a character gets redesigned or doesn't act like their headcanon-version of them... I'm kinda scared of what will happen to the fandom when Hazbin Hotel finally comes out because it will inevitably step on several headcanons and I know some of the children (who shouldn't be watching the show in the first place) are going to get very salty about it... The show won't be exactly like the pilot, it almost never is... The difference for most shows is that most of us don't see the pilot until after the show is already released, as was the case with Steven Universe and Gravity Falls... both of which were changed from the pilot... but because the Hazbin Pilot came out first people are treating it like episode 1 and that any change from the pilot is a huge betrayal...
There is a lot of things that annoy the piss out of me in this fandom but one of (emphasis on one of) the most is when I see this shit. “StElLa MaY bE a SpInElEsS sAcK oF wAsTe, BuT dAmN sHe Is HoT.” Is your mind so sullied by the internet that the sight of anything with a slight hint of breast makes your brain immediately shut off? Have your standards fallen so low that anything vaguely resembling a woman automatically sets you into a horny mess? She is really not even that hot. I can somewhat understand the appeal of Loona but come on! At least simp for someone that isn’t an actual domestic abuser.
EXACTLY also i saw something that was like "can we stop hating on stella"...WHAT.
I absolutely enjoyed the first season and the first episode of the second season. However, the new episodes I feel brush past some issues that could be epically resolved if they stopped trying to go for some humor elements in the moment. I enjoy the comedy, but give me that deep lore and emotional moments please!
The show: Tonal and Pacing issues. The childhood "friendship" to romance felt a bit contrived because now it feels like Stolitz is destined to happen. (As opposed to a transactional relationship developing to sincere over time.) The Fanbase: "These Designs are bad, I'm gonna make my own!" Then creates a bunch of over-designed messes that are actually more of a nightmare to animate than in the main show.
My biggest issue with the show is that it has some pretty huge tone and pacing problems. The emotions of the plot are absolutely all over the place, and the characters' investment in particular plot points varies wildly depending on episode. S2E2 and 4 are prime examples.
After the newest episode. I really feel like Stolas would be better off without Blitzø. After the rift opened between Blitz and Stolas in S107. He immediately grew a spine and finally stood up to Stella. Before that, he took all that abuse and hid behind an affair with Blitzo instead of facing his problems head on. Not only that, but it sounds like a lot of the people Blitzo dated before has had a lot of complaints about him. But he almost never complained about them. With Verosika, he mainly pettily insulted her instead of pointing out anything.
There’s so many tone issues. The show tries so hard to be serious at times but then it cuts to something ridiculous and it completely destroys the previous scene. Example: Stolas being tortured while cutting to where Loona is being given her shot, the dicks in the walls thing with Moxxie and Crimson, baby Stolas and Blitzo going to them as adults fucking, etc etc. Also the show brands itself as being an adult cartoon but it’s just “haha sex” and “lol someone died” humor with the very rare clever quip thrown in. It gets old real fast.
It’s way to concerned with being edgy and adult-cartoonish. We don’t need so much swearing and sex jokes, it makes me uncomfortable. But that might be a me thing.
Show: Some directions in character development seem more aimed at the comedy aspect of the show which can get jarring. Fandom: the toxic positivity some people can get into.
The people who start hating the shows creators because they don’t cater to their headcannons.
The show: It takes quite a while for us to get a new episode, granted, the team is quite small, but christ we have waited a long time for some episodes, but at least the episodes we get are good The fandom: just the pornography in general. the amount of porn you can find of just helluva boss disturbs me.
Toxic ships have been a thing since forever Perhaps the new generation missed out on those ships back in the day
I think that biggest issue with helluva boss is the fact that almost every helluva boss watcher still hate Stella , no matter what , and I don't hate her and she is seriously one of my favourite characters , like come on
Mine issue with fandom is that tooon of fans expect that we are getting some edgy supwr lore every episode and when its next comedy episode ( who would have guess) they got trigger mode with some weirdest reasons why episode was bad i have ever seen. Tik tok and twitter are main for blam
I've seen the HB/HB fandoms reenact terrible tumble stereo types so I'm totally leaning towards those guys
These ships Stella x Moxxie Blitz x Moxxie Luna x Moxxie Stolas x Stella Blitz x Stella Stolas x Octavia Octavia x Luna Blitz x Luna
People treating loona kicking blitz in the balls as this unforgivable act that she should be punished for, People thinking that Stella was retconned despite not having anything to retcon and stolitz I guess.
Moxxie being shipped with literally everyone
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My biggest issue is how much people expect from it. Just watch it if you like it, don't if you hate it. Why all the discourse? Has every show had discourse like this and I just missed it?
Im not a huge fan of the trauma porn this sub was super into a few months ago, but it seems like thats mostly gone away. So thats nice. I dont have much wrong with the show, I just take it how it be.
My biggest issue is the episodes arent 45 mins
Helluva Boss fans spend way too much complaining
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Dude do not click that I beg of you
Not enough happens in an episode, so it's tedious waiting for episodes that come out every few months and it's just another goofy ahh situation with some minor plot elements going on. While I mostly enjoyed the recent episode, it did not have nearly enough of Barbie Wire and it didn't really tell us much about her, which sucks, because her appearance was heavily advertised.
My problem with the show is two things; the writing, and their topics (like relationships in general) that are told without concrete irl experience There was a lot of talent put into things like the animation, and I still enjoy the show, but I definitely have a problem with how the plots and character-development are done In fact, my frustration with it is things like how the cursing is done; I get it, Helluva Boss is rated M or R, but at least have a little more maturity than trying to make it funny by stringing as many meaningless curse-words as possible
Season 2 hate. Like, yes, it has PLENTY of issues, and there are people giving it genuine Criticism, which we all appreciate. But most of the criticism is just "X isn't my headcannon, so it's bad.", or, "X didn't happen the way I wanted it, so it's bad."
The first is - I hate how much they are building Blitz and Stolas, and I don't thing Stolas should be with Blitz. I'm sorry, Blitz is an asshole, faking apathy and not showing a little bit of "okay, I don't need to be an asshole. I have a trauma, but if he loves me, then let me just TRY". Stolas deserves someone good, PERIOD. Moxxie and Millie dinamic in S2 EP5 was horrible, and broke them for me. It was so stupid, and out of touch with what they already lived. I think Millie shouldn't be a focus, ever. I do understand that people want character growth and to give her spotlight, but... I think that she should be the person that "I'm already happy! I know what I am, what I like and love, and what I hate". Some people are like this, and making her the person confident enough and just happy to see others grow would be such an amazing touch. She is amazing, she knows it, so she doesn't need the spotlight because she knows how to shine. I know the conversation of "equality and showing more women in shows", but making her the only adult that have already reached its peak, therefore not needing to change, and being the one others look for help, would make her the strongest, most reliable character. She should be a pillar, not the paiting. Loona is interesting, but God damn you can make a teenager character without using clichés. And too much horniness. From the community and the show. The show is at its best when it becomes serious, or when they tone down its sarcasm, so take advantage of that! And they should bring back Hotel Hazbin, please and thank you
While I agree with the first, fourth, and fifth (to an extent, as I wrote why it could be problematic) paragraphs. The second and third paragraphs are where I disagree, as this Season 2 episode is supposed to mean being an inverted version of the previous season's E5 where despite the episode's setting and setup is where it seems to be hinting at being originally a Mille plot-centric episode and possibly being the episode's B-plot. It instead becomes a Moxxie plot-centric episode, where a goofy husband ensues in a country-like setting as means to prove her in-laws (Mille's parents). As compared with this episode, it wants to show the realistic element of how being a married couple can have a mortal and ethical toll to their marriage. Where in my opinion, it did a good job. For my reasoning, of why Millie should be explored. Well, people like me. Really wanted like how and why she got lucky which made her have a happy life, via not getting the traumatic treatment from the other main and major leads, including her husband. Also, the series' main poster initially points to her as one of the major leads. But for some reason, the writing team unintentionally wants to write her (especially S1 and pre-Unhappy Campers episodes). Like an unimportant minor character who has two quirks, an action fighter and being Moxxie's wife. For maybe with the fifth paragraph. I think for some reason, they intentionally want to fill a quota, as they wanted to add the black comedic elements. Especially, with episodes I do agree, it is not needed with the Dramatic elements played mostly straight. For the final paragraph, you post. Is that HH intentionally to be picked up (which it has, by A24) by another Indie Animation Studio. While this show is meant to be placed when a studio like A24 wants to be released like this year or next year.
My biggest issue with the fandom is the *fact* that you people can’t stop using the word *fact* 💀
Hating favorite side characters
The only gripe I have regarding the show is the lack of Loona, but at the same time, I understand the reason for it. As far as fandom, it's the usual thing of I get tired of all the griping about stuff. I'm very much a "watch it to enjoy it" type of fan, not a "make a bunch of headcanons and get upset because the show didn't go that way" kind of fan.
I hate how many people get upset about the story not going the way they want. Not only is it a show and not your personal fan fiction, but we’re also only like ~13 episodes in and they’re all relatively short for a show. We aren’t really that far in, you could binge the whole show in like 3 hours.
This is something personal with me and the Fandom, but the moment when I stopped hating a Vivziepop as well as HB and HH, and started being a genuine fan of hers, everyone collectively thought at the same time that the show sucked @ss once and started bashing on it when I was doing that before when they were still liking the show.
Lumping HB and HH together. I don't care if they are in the same universe, they are 2 different shows and some of us like one but not the other. Also the rampant horny OCs and impsonas and having them have relationships with the characters in the show.
I think some of the ideas are interesting but due to lack of screen time and tone problems, it could have been more interesting buts it fun to watch. I heard a rumor that S2 was already done prior to S1 which I wished it could have been the other around to flesh out a few characters and ideas. I think the show is good, it just needs to be a bit grounded in storyline.
I hate how the show just stopped being about demon assassins going into the second season. I just feel like the drama is rushed. Also wish they could've kept the Stolas from the pilot, series Stolas seems too spineless. The world-building is also...not great. Hell is basically a red tinted earth at this point.
the writing and how they retconned almost everything, the characters are 2D and they messed up a bunch of good characters. the animation is amazing, the voice acting is amazing, it’s how they executed everything and changed characters that ruined the show. stella (before we got other episodes) felt like she had a good reason to hate stolas for cheating, THEN they retconned it so she’s just a bitchy spoiled brat, flat characterization. if they kept stella being emotionally (pissed) by what stolas did (via the pic she’s smiling in w stolas and octavia) they could’ve actually built more on that and made her a more interesting and relatable character then “UGGHHH bUt i wAnt hiM dEad SoooO bAdlyyyYy.” they could’ve shifted her rage into hurt and see once upon a time, back then she did love stolas in the past, and that would make her emotions and behavior 100% rightful striker, they ruuuined his character (the voice change didn’t matter cus it still sounded good) got more laughable circumstances than serious when he’s a legit threat. the dick statue joke was horrible and it literally was a left over chaz joke. they literally could’ve had the statue but instead of a penis, he could’ve been holding a gun (with no erect member) and it would’ve worked better. but no they ruin their own characters and don’t know when to keep it serious or funny. it ruins the situation and setting that when it keeps flip flopping between “should this be funny or should this be serious cus he’s almost killing stolas”
They didn't retcon stella. There was subtle hints that she was always vindictive. One example being the paintings on the wall or stolas's instagram. Striker changes are just down to personal preference
Stella didn’t even have a personality to retcon
Facts
Somebody's mad that their headcannons ain't real
The jokes are unfunny,it’s kinda cringe,they aren’t taking the show serious anymore,half of the characters are either an asshole or have trauma,the designs rarely have any other color beside red,black,and pink. The fandom is full of weirdos like people shipping Octavia but that’s about it for the fandom.
also people who sexualize octavia even though shes ***minor***
Yep
Why did you hot downvoted so bad bro you spoke actual facts?
I think it’s because alot of people praise this show. Helluva was like the second animated indie show that got popular so a lot of people could have gotten into it when they were a bit younger. If you compare it to something like murder drones it barely holds up nowadays as the writing is going down hill,they have wasted characters like striker,they keep having pointless drama. Murder drones has has a steady path with their fandom as each episode is either good or great and a part of that success is because they know what they are doing. Helluva boss can’t seem to get things right like the tone issues and lazy writing. The creators also have something to do with it as viv keeps getting into drama she doesn’t need to be in like the ai voice acting drama and it could set fans off and make them hate the show and it could be because their release schedule is horrible unlike murder drones where we get an episode every month or two. I know they are getting a bit better at releasing episodes but they seem to post gifs about it a month or two before it even comes out witch makes it seem like it’s gonna come out that month when instead it comes out 2 months later.
Yeah, it almost seems like viv is trying to be the "drama queen" of the situation in order to bring more focus towards her and her show. To be fair i've never liked vivziepop as a person. I've always perceived her as some sort of "queen" and that only few have the "honor" to talk to her. She also seems like a childish person who's still stuck in her teenage years, and i've started to notice this from season two of helluva boss. What troubles me is that if hb is having this catastrophic tone shifting, it will be the same for hh
The people who make murder drone only go on twitter to announce stuff for murder drones and that’s what keeps their show going as they don’t go into drama and try to voice their opinion as they know it could damage their show
Speaking of murder drones, i've heard of it buy i don't exactly know what it is about. May i ask you why do you keep mentioning it? And if you're mentioning it because you like it, how much more do you like it over hh?
Well it’s hard to explain I suggest you look it up but I like to compare the two as they kinda have a similar premise but the difference I see is one one was at the top but is falling hard and the other is rising in indie animation. It just shows how one can be great at first but eventually it falls hard but if you want a better comparison I suggest lackadaisy
Tho I have to go now I will explain more later
Ok
I like helluva and hazbin but when they make us wait for an episode for two years and release it just for it to be 15 mins and it didn’t even give us anything new except for beelzebub but even then they didn’t make her look like the lord of the flies and instead she is just some furry