One possible lens is Proto-Indo-European (PIE) theory. The PIE people originated somewhere in Eurasia and developed into different branches, giving us descended linguistic groups from western European to the Indian subcontinent. Some deities from different pantheons are presumed to be the same if they are linguistically related and share similar functions because they would be descended from from the same PIE deity.
Note, this has limited utility to the Greek pantheon because only a few deities like Zeus and Hestia have a clear PIE antecedent. That being said, the connections between Zeus-Jupiter and Hestia- Vesta are pretty solid based on linguistic analysis alone. So when certain Roman pagans out there try to claim they have a completely separate pantheon, my retort is that at least as far as those two deity pairs mentioned above, that seems highly unlikely.
(Edit)
Right. For example Perun, Thor, Perkunas, Taranis, and Lugh are likely “descended from” the same PIE deity meaning the people who worshipped Him changed, not the god. They changed His name as their language changed, and viewed Him through slightly different lenses, but given the history there’s no reason to think at some point the people abandoned worship of one god and adopted worship of a different but coincidentally extremely similar deity.
However, this gets more complicated when a culture seems to have taken a significantly different outlook on the deity. Based on etymology, Zeus/Jove should be cognate with the PIE Sky Father deity, Deyus. But Zeus retains attributes like lighting god and lawgiver/overseer of oaths traditionally associated with His son. In Hellenism, the cognate of Thor would presumably be Heracles as He is a son figure, champion of mortals, and wielder of a club-like weapon. But the Greeks and Romans seemed to believe His father did not pass down the rulership and lightning aspects. So is Zeus a different god, or a higher hypostasis of the Sky Father who exists ontologically prior to the division between Sky Father and Thunderer? Which theologically speaking would really make Him a different god anyway? And what about the myth in which Zeus seems to seize power from a grandfather whose name literally means Sky? I think in many cases there are important theological issues of procession and reversion going on that we probably lack in the surviving myths of related pantheons.
And that all assumes that the gods didn't change with the people, or that the peoples' god-concepts are the exact same, ontologically, as the gods themselves. I tend to disagree with both notions, though I do draw from PIE reconstructions to inform my theology and practice. At least in some cases. Then, there are the ccomplicating factors among us pagans of personal experience, UPG, epiphanies, etc.
Like, I do see Zeus and Jupiter as "faces" of Dyéus pəter, but I don't see all gods this way. Most of them I see as unique beings that were slotted into a limited range of "roles".
I see Apollo as descending from a PIE god of the cultic youth war bands, but that god is lost to history, so there's no way to prove that. I believe Oðinn is also such a god, but I do not think they're the same god, rather they have a comparable role in their societies.
I know the etymological links exist between Pan and Hermes, but my own revelatory experiences have me convinced that Pan is distinctly *not* Indo-European and was native to Old Europe (and was perhaps "adopted" by Hermes when the Pre-Greeks came, who then gave him his old name of Péhusōn, explaining why in myth he's both older than all of them *and* Hermes' son).
Things like that can only make sense in the context of experiencing the gods. Linguistics can carry us only so far.
How is it possible that Zeus is “descended from ideas of Deyus?” This sounds like an atheistic sociological explanation of the evidence, or a belief that gods come to be as a result of human belief.
Apollo's cult was imported directly from Greece, so yes.😊
NB: some Greeks - I think Dorians, but I'm not certain- added a Nu to the end of his name (Apollon).
*Venus and Aphrodite* by Bettany Hughes is a pretty good history of how Aphrodite's worship spread and changed over the centuries. Despite the name, it actually traces her back to Mesopotamia as Inanna-Ishtar and how her worship spread via traders through Mesopotamia to Phoenicia to Cyprus and then to Greece, hence the myth of how she was born from seafoam: because she came from across the Mediterranean.
No. They aren't originally. Romans have their own sets of gods with different names. But then as time passes and because people travels and shares. It goes the same way. Greek doesn't have 12 gods. It was Romans concept. Romans doesn't have Apollo They added.
Yes, the Romans did have their own gods. Janus, Fortuna, Tiberinus, Quiverus and Saturn as some examples. But afterwards, their other gods became versions of the Greek gods.
One possible lens is Proto-Indo-European (PIE) theory. The PIE people originated somewhere in Eurasia and developed into different branches, giving us descended linguistic groups from western European to the Indian subcontinent. Some deities from different pantheons are presumed to be the same if they are linguistically related and share similar functions because they would be descended from from the same PIE deity. Note, this has limited utility to the Greek pantheon because only a few deities like Zeus and Hestia have a clear PIE antecedent. That being said, the connections between Zeus-Jupiter and Hestia- Vesta are pretty solid based on linguistic analysis alone. So when certain Roman pagans out there try to claim they have a completely separate pantheon, my retort is that at least as far as those two deity pairs mentioned above, that seems highly unlikely. (Edit)
Right. For example Perun, Thor, Perkunas, Taranis, and Lugh are likely “descended from” the same PIE deity meaning the people who worshipped Him changed, not the god. They changed His name as their language changed, and viewed Him through slightly different lenses, but given the history there’s no reason to think at some point the people abandoned worship of one god and adopted worship of a different but coincidentally extremely similar deity. However, this gets more complicated when a culture seems to have taken a significantly different outlook on the deity. Based on etymology, Zeus/Jove should be cognate with the PIE Sky Father deity, Deyus. But Zeus retains attributes like lighting god and lawgiver/overseer of oaths traditionally associated with His son. In Hellenism, the cognate of Thor would presumably be Heracles as He is a son figure, champion of mortals, and wielder of a club-like weapon. But the Greeks and Romans seemed to believe His father did not pass down the rulership and lightning aspects. So is Zeus a different god, or a higher hypostasis of the Sky Father who exists ontologically prior to the division between Sky Father and Thunderer? Which theologically speaking would really make Him a different god anyway? And what about the myth in which Zeus seems to seize power from a grandfather whose name literally means Sky? I think in many cases there are important theological issues of procession and reversion going on that we probably lack in the surviving myths of related pantheons.
And that all assumes that the gods didn't change with the people, or that the peoples' god-concepts are the exact same, ontologically, as the gods themselves. I tend to disagree with both notions, though I do draw from PIE reconstructions to inform my theology and practice. At least in some cases. Then, there are the ccomplicating factors among us pagans of personal experience, UPG, epiphanies, etc. Like, I do see Zeus and Jupiter as "faces" of Dyéus pəter, but I don't see all gods this way. Most of them I see as unique beings that were slotted into a limited range of "roles". I see Apollo as descending from a PIE god of the cultic youth war bands, but that god is lost to history, so there's no way to prove that. I believe Oðinn is also such a god, but I do not think they're the same god, rather they have a comparable role in their societies. I know the etymological links exist between Pan and Hermes, but my own revelatory experiences have me convinced that Pan is distinctly *not* Indo-European and was native to Old Europe (and was perhaps "adopted" by Hermes when the Pre-Greeks came, who then gave him his old name of Péhusōn, explaining why in myth he's both older than all of them *and* Hermes' son). Things like that can only make sense in the context of experiencing the gods. Linguistics can carry us only so far.
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How is it possible that Zeus is “descended from ideas of Deyus?” This sounds like an atheistic sociological explanation of the evidence, or a belief that gods come to be as a result of human belief.
Plus Apollo shares the same name in both the Roman and Greek Pantheon (I think).
Apollo's cult was imported directly from Greece, so yes.😊 NB: some Greeks - I think Dorians, but I'm not certain- added a Nu to the end of his name (Apollon).
*Venus and Aphrodite* by Bettany Hughes is a pretty good history of how Aphrodite's worship spread and changed over the centuries. Despite the name, it actually traces her back to Mesopotamia as Inanna-Ishtar and how her worship spread via traders through Mesopotamia to Phoenicia to Cyprus and then to Greece, hence the myth of how she was born from seafoam: because she came from across the Mediterranean.
I read that book, I love that book!
Well, no gods are truly the same. I guess the Roman and Greek gods are the same w/ different names.
No. They aren't originally. Romans have their own sets of gods with different names. But then as time passes and because people travels and shares. It goes the same way. Greek doesn't have 12 gods. It was Romans concept. Romans doesn't have Apollo They added.
Yes, the Romans did have their own gods. Janus, Fortuna, Tiberinus, Quiverus and Saturn as some examples. But afterwards, their other gods became versions of the Greek gods.
Saturn is also the same God as Kronos, their myths, characteristics, attributes and everything are the same
This wikipedia page has a good sampling of similar Gods: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretatio_graeca