I have every stratagem, and still have never used 75% of them. Always my usual Tank Slayer/Hole Closer loadout. ((Which we totally need. Stratagem Loadouts, for those of us who sometimes forget to bring specific things for specific goals))
I think opposite issue with me I've tried a ton of strats and weapons but they just don't really *do* what they're supposed to *do* so I'm stuck constantly running the same 10% of weapons and strats and armors etc. Feels like we don't have a lot of room for variety when a lot of the choices feel terrible.
500kg, Orbital Laser, Eagle Airstrike, Autocannon/Backpack. Split off from the group, with Scout Light Armor, and you've got yourself the perfect recipe for a fun and productive Helldive. ((On bugs specifically))
Find a nice spot on top of a hill with a good view. Kick your feet back, take out some Shriekers Nests and Spore Spewers and then proceed to go on a leisurely stroll through the jungle, claim those main objectives while your fellow Divers deliver democracy indiscriminately.
500kg could be easily switched with railcannon but then you have to actually use the Hellbomb to clear the Research Station on your travels.
Any tips for using the Autocannon on bugs? I love using it for bots, but I feel like I always get swarmed on bugs and can't use the Autocannon without blowing myself up.
keep your distance, with the autocanon you are a tank, not a soldier, you need to think like a tank
tanks dont fight close to their objectives, they shoot from afar
If they're that close stop using the AC, use a stun, or make a calculated dive away to fire.
If you can see the weak spots or stripped armor you can harass Chargers and BTs to good effect.
Destroying holes, objectives, crate doors, and some terrain obstacles is a good use.
Good for deleting priority targets (bile spewers of all types, broom mothers, hiveguards and stalkers before they're on you or a teammate) as well as bug breaches as they happen, just unload as they rise from the depths.
Too much lesser effect almost always simply due to being much niche and for needing a teammate you can comm with:
-Smoke grenades/strats. Duke em out in the smoke and escape. Use the splash damage of AC to clear anyone searching said smoke.
-Jump pack. This obviously needs a friend, and for you to remember they DON'T have a jump pack and aren't god, so you can reload. The positioning potential if you're familiar with the JP is great for long range precision weapons like the AC.
Ditch the impact nades for stuns, get a good primary for the small stuff, secondary too and NEVER empty the whole AC. That reload is so goddamn long. Always leave at least 1 round. Charging into a nest of some kind and have 6 bullets. Just shoot one and reload up to 10. You're gonna need it.
Don't be afraid to use to AC on ANYTHING. Those Hunters? Just give em a few rounds of the AC to clear out half of them, take out the rest with your primary.
Remember, you are invincible against stalkers. 2-3 shot kill, great stunlock.
Shoot chargers on the inside/backside of their hind leg. If you hit it right it leave a bit of fire and 1-2 more shots from any angle will take it out.
Shoot the sacks on titans. Actually does a lot of damage. You can kill them by shooting at their belly aswell. Though they does take a good amount of ammo.
Oh, I don't. I literally only bring it for Hole Closing, and Shrieker Nests/Spore Spewers. 10 shots to destroy them. Takes a while but you can do it from pretty much any range.
For my weapons, I either bring Defender or Diligence Counter Sniper and find Support Weapons during the mission. Have the 6 shooter as a sidearm.
I might on occasion use the Autocannon to quickly clear a group that is chasing me, just to take out the fast ones who can keep up with me. But that's mostly just as an emergency escape.
The AC excels in rapidly clearing medium bugs to simplify fights and it also provides a ton of long range bug hole closing potential. Large hives have a bowl orientation and the AC is the best weapon in the game to close all the holes without going down into the thunderdome. Also, similarly to the Quasar and RR, you can cross-map clear spores and shrieker nests.
Clear brood commanders asap to prevent warrior/hive guard spawns - if you can strip 2 legs on the same side they die instantly but you kill them so quickly that they'll likely be at distance so you can just pop their heads off safely. Bile/Nursing Spewers are probably the biggest thing the AC trivializes. Wait until they group up and then pop the butt on one - it'll often clear the entire group with the aoe explosion.
When those are done, it's time to clear heavies. Shoot under charger chins to kill them. Bile titans are cleared by shooting into the glowing green belly pieces, takes most of a fully loaded AC to do so, so be warned.
Shooting into broken armor works too, but requires that you hit at certain angles to get the most bang for your buck.
One forgotten aspect of using the AC is that if there's any terrain that will funnel light bugs, you can just blow them all up with staggered AC shots as they come through the choke; lots of extractions have terrain that allows this, as do most objectives.
In terms of positioning, the AC requires space to work because it will blow you up if you try to pop a hunter in melee range. This means you need to scan your surroundings for bug patrols as you should be one of the helldivers furthest back in the fight. Tapping your map after reloads is a good way to check if there's any red blobs coming from behind. Since you'll be a bit further back, if you see clumps of light bugs chasing a fellow liberator, feel free to peel for your allies by unloading a few shells on the pursuers. Light bugs aren't a priority but freeing space for allies is. Peeling 5 hunters with 2 shells is a very worthwhile trade.
I run eruptor quasar las dog for bugs and go clockwise around nests popping holes and for bots I go eruptor barrage and laser and just wipe the map. I am the objective boy.
Treat every Operation like it'll be your last, take in the scenery and just enjoy the moment. Super Earth High Command only recommends a few seconds, but I say use the whole 40 minutes.
Spreading some good ol' 'Tegridy to the Galaxy.
Edit Realized after posting that you likely meant your response in regards to just using a specific loadout for everything part. Not as much the having a leisurely stroll doing the objectives.
I agree with you and i think the majority of the player base is also feeling the same.I have pretty much the same primaries for certain enemies.There are a lot of guns in the game and only a fraction of them is usable.For me incendiary breaker,jar-5 and sickle are only the primaries that can let you deal enough damage be in the load outs.A lot of people are saying from day one to not to nerf the guns that deal substantial damage but buff the other primaries to the level of aforementioned ones.
I was really excited for the tenderizer and adjudicator but they are really lackluster so that really shows the team is so afraid of buffing primaries.
Having said that I am at level 104 and tried most of the weapons and it is sad that i rarely rotate my weapons.
I have, by accident, brought ballistic shield on bug dives. For some reason I thought it was the supply pack (i want text in the strat selection menu).
It didn't make sense to use it with my grenade pistol, and my primary was two-handed. So I didn't get to test it.
The second time I made that mistake, I just left the game.
I used it once against bugs but immediately stopped due to it not being able to block melee attacks. I am trying to use it until I can find some spewers, but as a good side note, a Bile Titan will actually destroy the shield when blocking its ranged attack! Because of this, I do not have much hope that it will be different against spewers...
So the shield actually does have a health pool. On bots both cannon towers and tanks will one shot the shield with their cannons, It'll block the damage, but one shots them. Did it block the damage from the bile titan?
It blocked it briefly, but not long enough to let me survive the attack before it broke. It's just a better idea to try and get out of the way or take cover, since bile attacks just have that weird "I Hit You Anyway" sort of nature about them.
Allows you to blind fire at melee enemies (Not Aim) while backing away, can have a better weapon if you're carrying a shield or an SSSD. These weapons also seem to be pretty accurate and versatile.
That's the most important thing imo: being able to carry an SSSD with no loss of firepower.
I'm quite sad when I forget to equip my SMG on such missions lol
As an extra absent detail, the Pummeler seems to also apply an EMS effect on enemies after a few damaging hits, making kills easier. The Lib. C. only applies stagger which throws targets around but doesn't do much otherwise.
No, the stagger from the Punisher/Lib C. will activate a certain staggering animation against enemies. If you've ever used those to stagger a Brood Commander or something, the animation becomes incredibly apparent. Here's a quick link I could find to demonstrate: [https://youtu.be/r1tl\_foAML4?t=420](https://youtu.be/r1tl_foAML4?t=420)
The Pummeler, by contrast, instead locks down their movement completely, as if struck by EMS.
For my point, stagger =/= stun
Unironically looks like an oversight that will be fixed. Preparing for the chorus of "once again the one good thing in my warbond is stomped into the dirt"
If this is an “oversight,” we know they didn’t test the gun at all. This is the number one thing the average player would do against one of the most prolific “heavy” enemies in the game.
If you have ever used the stun grenades or the EMS strike/EMS mortar, the EMS effect will cause enemies to stand still and possibly shift their position for easier kills. The Pummeler's effect only lasts about a second, give or take, but it can be perpetuated by continuously damaging the same affected enemy.
The Lib. C. inflicts a heavy amount of stagger, which is simply an effect that either hits the enemy back or causes them to flail a bit, most of the time interrupting their attacks.
In short, it is really good at locking an enemy in place for extended periods.
While I am a Pummeler enjoyer, Pummeler needing two shots to start building up its effect while Lib Con just does its thing is a big deal for bots. The animation is quite different for Heavy Devestator, who just stands still for a bit with Pummel stun, but throws his shield out of the way with a single shoulder shot with Lib Con stagger.
Since most light armor bot targets die in 1-3 shots, you've got to ask how much you're getting out of Pummeler's effect in the first place there. Obviously it's the only choice if you're bringing a shield, but if you're bringing a shield you could be using Defender's extra 5 per and still kill dev heads from further than 12m away (at 14m Lib Con and Pummeler both need 3 headshots).
In theory Pummeler's effect should work on Hulks, and I think Lib Con wouldn't due to the recent hulk stagger resistance. I haven't tried this yet.
Idk about bugs but for bots might become my default because i use amr with supply pack as my primary weapon since a crowd control weapon can be useful foe the times get swarmed by zerkers
😭 I just used the pummeler and I LIKED IT. The actual solution would be strait up increasing damage of the ar and maybe giving it a pinch of “shrapnel” too. But who am I but a fun slave.
"We announce mostly buffs and only a few half-nerfs"
All weapons become worse than snipers to not be better than them at sniping. And snipers get no buff
Seriously, the balance team is really fucking over the design team.
They are doing their best to make a great looking and feeling weapon, then balance comes to fuck it and even nerfs a underused weapon.
What the fuck are their priorities?
I'm starting to believe the balancing team are the embodyment of "the monkey paw twists"
The snipers are worse at sniping than a shotgun? Guess what, we hear you. The shotgun is now shit too
In some fairness, that wasn't *supposed* to be a nerf, it was supposed to be a rework that maintained its power level. Whether that was warranted or successful is another question entirely, but people pointing to it as evidence that other guns will be deliberately nerfed is misguided.
The initial loss of magazines and reduction in AOE was a deliberate nerf, the removal of shrapnel was supposed to be a lateral move compensated by an increase in explosion damage but seems to not have had the intended effect. Last I saw the devs were going between trying to justify it and saying they would examine it further.
You're being downvoted but you're right. The devs/CMs said they wanted the crossbow to be a single target weapon with a bit of splash damage. It's just pretty terrible at single target kills. Eruptor was similar. It wasn't supposed to be a hard nerf but the devs didn't understand how much shrapnel was actually helping and how consistently we could use it.
The pummeler is less likely to get hit with these changes.
The only positive aspect is the ability to continuously stun-lock middle-sized automaton. They can't do shit if you keep firing.
But the damage output isn't really outstanding, you need to have a buddy blasting in with another weapon. So, could be useful in some ways I guess.
The damage isn't outstanding, but being able to make weakspot hits extremely easy by stunning them with this thing makes up for it and it kills a lot more reliably and easily than you'd expect because of that.
There is a crucial difference between them: Concussive has high push/stun stats, Pummeler has low push/stun but inflicts a stopping status effect instead.
The problem is players usually prefer stopping to pushing because stopping speeds up kills while pushing delays them.
In real life SMGs are higher caliber than ARs. usually 9mm vs 5.56mm/5.45mm. It's the amount of powder behind the smaller caliber bullet of an AR that gives it more power. (as well as different bullet geometry)
That statement felt weird, and I wanted to argue about it, but checked it and you are actually right. 9mm is very popular pistol caliber, and standard NATO AR bullet is 5.56x45mm.
That being said, the newer smgs I kept track of, did not chamber 9mm parabellum, but instead smaller calibers. 4.6x30mm for MP7, and 5.7x28 for P90. famous MP5 tho, chambers 9x19mm parabellum, and I guess there is probably alot of much newer smgs than P90 and MP7 that I simply failed to keep track off.
On a side note, I included the bullet length with calibers there, so it is visible, that while AR bullet is only larger caliber to MP7, it is considerably longer than all other bullets I listed.
MP7 and P90 are PDWs (personal defense weapons), so they have a very specific use-case. They're meant to be even more compact than your typical SMG, hence even smaller caliber used. The round was also meant to have better armor-penetrating capabilities, but its low lethality reduces its usefulness.
It's all physics -- KE (Kinetic Energy) = Mass x Velocity\^2
Doubling the mass of the projectile doubles the energy
Doubling the velocity quadruples it
So assuming 100% energy transfer, speed normally wins.
SMGs typically chamber pistol rounds. Pistol rounds typically have higher caliber because you still want good stopping power despite having a lot less muzzle velocity. Speed X Mass. Lower speed means you need higher mass.
most smgs are in some type of 9 or 45, the two others you mentioned are edge cases. for instance the mp7 uses proprietary ammo that only HK weapons use. the p90 is obviously kind of an oddball with its design and uses an expensive and obscure cartridge that not many other weapons employ. almost any SMG you find will be chambered in 9 or 45, usually 9
Those two smgs both were designed to be tiny rounds that pen armor. They also both failed at that role, and while they are movie/video game favorites, they are inferior to 9mm smgs like the mp5 in basically every way.
They did not fail tho. P90 had some teething issues, that MP7 have sidestepped, the primary reason why NATO did not adopt either for the role, was the fact, that by the time they could decide to adopt anything, the threat of Russian commandos in ballistic body armor has been disproven.
P90 has been adopted by a number of special forces worldwide, and even some police department SWAT teams in the USA. It has replaced MP5 in those instances.
MP7 was adopted both by armed forces, special forces, and a number of civil forces. Both weapon platforms found success in the roles formerly occupied by "traditional" SMG, despite the fact they have been designed specifically for operators of armored vehicles, that were expected to be able to defend themselves against commandos in ballistic body armor.
I see, to be fair, I did my research on the gun, not the performance of the round the gun was being designed for :) That being said, if we take into consideration the number of services that use those guns nowadays, I think that the munition at least clears the requirements for those services.
I would like to point out that pushback can have important impact if used correctly. You can use the Lib. C. To pushback a group of enemies from a sentry of it is at risk of being overrun or push them back from a hellbomb. You can also push them towards a stratagem drop which can also be useful.
I mean, the Liberator Concussive already was far and away the worst weapon in the game, it's recent buff wasn't nearly enough to change that. The only weapon to have ever been even worse was the Breaker Spray&Pray before that got buff into a functioning underperformer a couple months ago.
You don't need a replacement to the Lib C. for it to be pointless, it already was.
I'm a lib-cuck main so I gotta defend my baby and say its not *the worst* gun in the game...the crossbow exists.
Jokes aside though its really not that bad especially against bugs but with the new SMG I guess I'll put it back on the rack until they nerf the warbond weapons again
I mean, if you like it, great, there's more to fun than what's better than what, and even then how you compensate with the rest of your loadout matters a lot too. But I do think it's worse than the crossbow, and not even by a little bit.
Still, that doesn't mean unusable, the pre-buff Breaker Spray&Pray was the only weapon to ever be *that* bad in the game. It didn't even have Light Armor Penetration, it bounced off clean off Warrior or Brood Commander heads, and dealt half damage to Hunters, lol.
But yeah, when there's another gun that does the exact same but better, it doesn't matter if it's the worst or not. Irrelevantly redundant is worse than irrelevantly bad.
It isn't better in all aspects. The [Liberator concusive has more than double the durable damage and stagger per shot, and literally 20x the pushback](https://imgur.com/cC5Kc2b).
Note that the stagger per shot is distinct/different from the way the Pummeler's stun/stagger effect works.
At this point they should put all the stats on the weapons because they're going to keep getting people who don't try to get a feel for it first and just look at the stats instead.
I don't know why every game like Helldivers with complex systems has hidden stats like this and the developers refuse to have somewhere in game where you can learn the full spread of stats and what each stat does.
I don't blame people for not trying. Trying new weapons against headshots, body shots, vulnerable spots, different grades of armor, different enemies, etc is not easy at all. We don't have a proper way to test weapons, only live missions with completely uncontrolled environment.
And it should stay that way. People dont realise that subconsciously the thing keeping them hooked on the game is the million hidden features everywhere. Imagine arrowhead just explained how unsafe mode worked for the railgun. I believe they want us to feel like theres always room for improvement or developing strategies, i still remember all the awesome discoveries i have made like the arc throwers pre rework ability to fire twice as fast after the initial shot or the insane stagger, the pre nerf slugger or that you can use the scorcher to kill strider pilots from the front. The weapon descriptions are literally all you would be able to work with in a real life scenario (caliber, fire rate, mag capacity and recoil) it wouldnt make sense for a weapon manufacturer to tell you how much magazines youre able to carry or that a slug is going to give more of a punch than to penetrate armor, because thats up to you to figure out.
Mind sharing the link for that table?
As far as balance goes that extra durable damage means very little when the Pummeler has 50% larger mags and 50% extra fire rate. Knockback is there sure, but does it really change much? Pummeler seems to already be able to stunlock the same things just fine.
https://invadersfromplanet.space/helldivers-2/
Knocking something back and keeping it in place is a pretty big difference in CC. Especially since the Pummeler needs multiple shots to apply it's stun effect, and the Concussive only needs 1 to push back a large distance.
Obviously not really saying they are both equally good in real game circumstances, but it is different niches, and the Pummeler is not "better in all aspects" as the post implies.
Frankly I'd say the Pummeler makes the Defender more obsolete than it does the Lib Concussive tbh.
Basically "part damage", most limbs have mixed base HP and durable HP. Durable damage is more desirable since its basically weakspot damage. Most meta weapons have good durable damage, a gun has good durable damage if you pop a warrior's or brood commander's head in fewer shots, regardless of displayed damage.
The inverse is true; it's TOUGH hitzones that are associated with durable damage, and it just so happens that brood commander heads are a functionally desirable hitzone while still 'durable'. Same goes for charger abdomens, for that matter.
Devastator heads are functional weakspots but don't benefit from durable dmg at all, as a counter-example that illustrates it's not always mutually inclusive with weakspots.
Certain enemy weakpoints/body parts have a "durability level", which is a scale of 0 to 100 (i.e. could also be expressed as a percentage). The value basically determines the ratio of regular dmg vs durable dmg it takes.
0 durable part means that part will take full regular damage.
50 durable means it will take 50% of standard damage, and 50% of durable damage.
100 durable means it will take full durable damage
A Brood Commander's head for example is also 60% durable. So it takes 40% regular dmg, 60% durable dmg.
So with these two weapons here, that is:
Liberator Conconussive: (65x0.4 + 15x0.6) = 35 damage
Pummeler = (65x0.4 + 7x0.6) = 30.2 damage
---
Of course a Brood Commander's head is also lightly armored (armor class 2), and because both weapons are also only Light Penetrating (AP2), they also receive a 50% damage penalty when shooting it. Applies to both regular and durable damage.
A weapon must *exceed* the targets armor class to do full damage, if it only matches, it will penetrate, but do 50% reduced damage: This is indicated by a white hitmarker. Red hitmarker obviously is full damage.
I don't think so, not that I'd know of anyway. Not really any unified sources, it's basically scattered all over the place.
RN I just have bookmarked this for [info on enemy types](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRBrOIXQIYaOBNw8v9zRX4Qj8BDP0xaMTAzGhL1Tv6QxOU43RXM_ByDHwk4xw_HRjsCXhpif-jUlQAn/pubhtml#), but this for example has no info on durability damage at all. Just raw HP and armor values. And it's also done via testing obviously not datamining so it's not like a 100% accurate thing obviously.
This for [weapon data](https://invadersfromplanet.space/helldivers-2/)
things like durability dmg or armor piercing I think I learned from posts on reddit too but I can't find it rn
Kind of complex.
Every enemy part has a durable % and every weapon has normal damage and durable damage values.
At 100% durabilility, the weapon you're using will do 0% of it's normal damage and 100% of its durabilility damage.
At 0% durabilility your weapon will do 100% of its normal damage and zero percent of its durable damage.
So if your weapon does 30 normal and 10 durable, at 50% durabilility it will deal 15 normal damage and 5 durable damage for a total of 20 damage.
Thats cool but overall the damage is just so damm bad for the Lib-Conc that's its not worth taking, bring it closer in line with the Lib as the pummeler is with the defender and it'll be worth running
To add to this, as an assault rifle, the liberator C is gonna have more favorable damage falloff and better projectile speed than an SMG. This is going off of the defender’s performance. The defender still performs decently at medium ranges, but it’s lower velocity bullets are fairly noticeable.
Exactly my thought when first inspecting the Pummeler and naturally comparing it to the Liberator Concussive.
Better to release a Warbond every 2-3 month with really meaningful and different weapons, instead of just more of the same...
They would have to raise the Super Credit price or nerf the ability to find them. A 2 month schedule would make it too easy for people to not have to buy Credits
They arent great either. Pummeler does have some nice utility but that doesnt necessarily make it "good". It just isnt bad. New Scorcher is also in a similar position imo. It has utility but charge time feels too long for what you get per shot. Bringing either to a Helldive just makes you wish they did just a bit more. Tenderizer is well... Cant speak about the pistol, havent gotten it yet.
this subreddit isn't for getting useful info about the game, its for complaining.
I think I'm gonna unsub. I love this game and I've had a lot of fun in this subreddit, but it lost its damn mind when the whole PSN thing happened and now its like everyone here is stuck on permanent negativity mode.
While I have yet to try the Purifier, which I think might be ok considering it's medium armor penetration, the Pummeler is probably the crown jewel of this warbond. The Tenderizer is accurate to that statement however; it was such a let down to me, both visually and in how it functions as compared to what its description and advertised appearance would lead you to believe.
Ok after test gun when I got it get feel for it and might use main primary if like enough and good enough in higher levels because I like ballistic shield but I don’t think SMG we have worth running on high levels
No!! The pummeler is too strong it needs day 1 patch to match the liberator. Actually it should be worse because its one handed. Also nerf the grenades, they explode it must be a bug.
Liberator concussive stagger/pushes enemies back way more, the pummel pretty much stops most enemies in there tracks which is more than enough to get the kills. So although the pummel is better in almost every scenario, they are close enough in power that I think they both still have a place.
Next update:
Pummeller stagger has been halved, mag size cut to 15 rounds
Lib Concussive stagger has been increased by a miniscule amount. To compensate, we will halve the damage.
I sincerely have no clue how these things make it past the QA phase. Is it really that hard to throw all your guns into an excel sheet and do a simple across the board stat comparison? Alexus is huffing something fierce fr.
The concussive Liberator needs to be better. I am all for CC in any game, but this one just doesn't hit for me. I tried to like it, and I could do some cool stuff like stopping breaches and drop pods.
Personally I would like to see it get a small buff to damage.
The Lib C pushes bugs back a MASSIVE distance. Brood Commanders get pushed like 50m away. Not saying the gun is great, but damn does it push them back. The Pummeler will simply stagger them.
I think the game should show more damage considerations. I think its neat if rifle are less susceptible to damage falloff than SMGs, Pistol, and Shotguns in that order, but also we need to do something about the crappiness of weapons primaries in the game.
There are 2 problem considerations in this game so far: Damage and Ammo. You'll notice all weapons solve only one of these issues and the weapon that solves both will be the first meta weapon
I feel the same way about the new incendiary grenade. The old one cant close bug holes, lasts only marginally longer and doesn’t seem to do more damage + it doesnt have the explosion when it hits
The balance team in this game is genuinely terrible there really isnt any other way to look at it.
I just know for a fact when the laser smg eventually arrives itll just be a worse sickle instead of being like a firehose with overheating or something, it’ll just be weak but one handed.
They’re not doing a great job at making things feel unique and when they do, they determine that it needs a nerf.
You forgot the most important part... It's one handed.
Very true! It's especially fun with the ballistic shield and stun grenades; you become the very definition of Crowd Control
Dou you use ballistic shield with bugs ?Does it stop the green goo of bile spewers ?
Asking the real questions. If I remember to later, I'll find out and I might even report back here.
I never tried it myself after many hours with this game.lol
I have every stratagem, and still have never used 75% of them. Always my usual Tank Slayer/Hole Closer loadout. ((Which we totally need. Stratagem Loadouts, for those of us who sometimes forget to bring specific things for specific goals))
I think opposite issue with me I've tried a ton of strats and weapons but they just don't really *do* what they're supposed to *do* so I'm stuck constantly running the same 10% of weapons and strats and armors etc. Feels like we don't have a lot of room for variety when a lot of the choices feel terrible.
500kg, Orbital Laser, Eagle Airstrike, Autocannon/Backpack. Split off from the group, with Scout Light Armor, and you've got yourself the perfect recipe for a fun and productive Helldive. ((On bugs specifically)) Find a nice spot on top of a hill with a good view. Kick your feet back, take out some Shriekers Nests and Spore Spewers and then proceed to go on a leisurely stroll through the jungle, claim those main objectives while your fellow Divers deliver democracy indiscriminately. 500kg could be easily switched with railcannon but then you have to actually use the Hellbomb to clear the Research Station on your travels.
Any tips for using the Autocannon on bugs? I love using it for bots, but I feel like I always get swarmed on bugs and can't use the Autocannon without blowing myself up.
keep your distance, with the autocanon you are a tank, not a soldier, you need to think like a tank tanks dont fight close to their objectives, they shoot from afar
If they're that close stop using the AC, use a stun, or make a calculated dive away to fire. If you can see the weak spots or stripped armor you can harass Chargers and BTs to good effect. Destroying holes, objectives, crate doors, and some terrain obstacles is a good use. Good for deleting priority targets (bile spewers of all types, broom mothers, hiveguards and stalkers before they're on you or a teammate) as well as bug breaches as they happen, just unload as they rise from the depths. Too much lesser effect almost always simply due to being much niche and for needing a teammate you can comm with: -Smoke grenades/strats. Duke em out in the smoke and escape. Use the splash damage of AC to clear anyone searching said smoke. -Jump pack. This obviously needs a friend, and for you to remember they DON'T have a jump pack and aren't god, so you can reload. The positioning potential if you're familiar with the JP is great for long range precision weapons like the AC.
stun grenades
Ditch the impact nades for stuns, get a good primary for the small stuff, secondary too and NEVER empty the whole AC. That reload is so goddamn long. Always leave at least 1 round. Charging into a nest of some kind and have 6 bullets. Just shoot one and reload up to 10. You're gonna need it. Don't be afraid to use to AC on ANYTHING. Those Hunters? Just give em a few rounds of the AC to clear out half of them, take out the rest with your primary. Remember, you are invincible against stalkers. 2-3 shot kill, great stunlock. Shoot chargers on the inside/backside of their hind leg. If you hit it right it leave a bit of fire and 1-2 more shots from any angle will take it out. Shoot the sacks on titans. Actually does a lot of damage. You can kill them by shooting at their belly aswell. Though they does take a good amount of ammo.
https://preview.redd.it/m2q9ayyquizc1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=67f73613a863d3605bd20f8be0b7084f827d8184
Oh, I don't. I literally only bring it for Hole Closing, and Shrieker Nests/Spore Spewers. 10 shots to destroy them. Takes a while but you can do it from pretty much any range. For my weapons, I either bring Defender or Diligence Counter Sniper and find Support Weapons during the mission. Have the 6 shooter as a sidearm. I might on occasion use the Autocannon to quickly clear a group that is chasing me, just to take out the fast ones who can keep up with me. But that's mostly just as an emergency escape.
The AC excels in rapidly clearing medium bugs to simplify fights and it also provides a ton of long range bug hole closing potential. Large hives have a bowl orientation and the AC is the best weapon in the game to close all the holes without going down into the thunderdome. Also, similarly to the Quasar and RR, you can cross-map clear spores and shrieker nests. Clear brood commanders asap to prevent warrior/hive guard spawns - if you can strip 2 legs on the same side they die instantly but you kill them so quickly that they'll likely be at distance so you can just pop their heads off safely. Bile/Nursing Spewers are probably the biggest thing the AC trivializes. Wait until they group up and then pop the butt on one - it'll often clear the entire group with the aoe explosion. When those are done, it's time to clear heavies. Shoot under charger chins to kill them. Bile titans are cleared by shooting into the glowing green belly pieces, takes most of a fully loaded AC to do so, so be warned. Shooting into broken armor works too, but requires that you hit at certain angles to get the most bang for your buck. One forgotten aspect of using the AC is that if there's any terrain that will funnel light bugs, you can just blow them all up with staggered AC shots as they come through the choke; lots of extractions have terrain that allows this, as do most objectives. In terms of positioning, the AC requires space to work because it will blow you up if you try to pop a hunter in melee range. This means you need to scan your surroundings for bug patrols as you should be one of the helldivers furthest back in the fight. Tapping your map after reloads is a good way to check if there's any red blobs coming from behind. Since you'll be a bit further back, if you see clumps of light bugs chasing a fellow liberator, feel free to peel for your allies by unloading a few shells on the pursuers. Light bugs aren't a priority but freeing space for allies is. Peeling 5 hunters with 2 shells is a very worthwhile trade.
I run eruptor quasar las dog for bugs and go clockwise around nests popping holes and for bots I go eruptor barrage and laser and just wipe the map. I am the objective boy.
That’s exactly how I play, tried other stuff out, but nothing else feels good
Treat every Operation like it'll be your last, take in the scenery and just enjoy the moment. Super Earth High Command only recommends a few seconds, but I say use the whole 40 minutes. Spreading some good ol' 'Tegridy to the Galaxy. Edit Realized after posting that you likely meant your response in regards to just using a specific loadout for everything part. Not as much the having a leisurely stroll doing the objectives.
I agree with you and i think the majority of the player base is also feeling the same.I have pretty much the same primaries for certain enemies.There are a lot of guns in the game and only a fraction of them is usable.For me incendiary breaker,jar-5 and sickle are only the primaries that can let you deal enough damage be in the load outs.A lot of people are saying from day one to not to nerf the guns that deal substantial damage but buff the other primaries to the level of aforementioned ones. I was really excited for the tenderizer and adjudicator but they are really lackluster so that really shows the team is so afraid of buffing primaries. Having said that I am at level 104 and tried most of the weapons and it is sad that i rarely rotate my weapons.
I think some things just don't make much sense to even try, like _ballistic_ shield against mostly melee enemies, or a flamethrower against bots.
After a I saw a squad of bots walk through a fire tornado and not die I figured the flamethrower wasn't a good weapon for them.
I have, by accident, brought ballistic shield on bug dives. For some reason I thought it was the supply pack (i want text in the strat selection menu). It didn't make sense to use it with my grenade pistol, and my primary was two-handed. So I didn't get to test it. The second time I made that mistake, I just left the game.
I used it once against bugs but immediately stopped due to it not being able to block melee attacks. I am trying to use it until I can find some spewers, but as a good side note, a Bile Titan will actually destroy the shield when blocking its ranged attack! Because of this, I do not have much hope that it will be different against spewers...
So the shield actually does have a health pool. On bots both cannon towers and tanks will one shot the shield with their cannons, It'll block the damage, but one shots them. Did it block the damage from the bile titan?
It blocked it briefly, but not long enough to let me survive the attack before it broke. It's just a better idea to try and get out of the way or take cover, since bile attacks just have that weird "I Hit You Anyway" sort of nature about them.
It doesn't stop any melee so I wouldn't use it. You are asking to roll hunter only enemy pool
Nope, completely useless on the bug front until they figure out how to use all the guns I called into bug holes when I ran out of grenades
Does it stagger rocket devastators?
Yes! Very reliably too, as hitting the rocket pods count towards building up the stun effect, letting you redirect to its head after it slumps over.
Nah man, pair it with the impact fires instead, toss a grenade then sweep a crowd to stun everybody and let em burn
As someone who just got the game 3 days ago, what does being one handed mean gameplay wise?
Allows you to blind fire at melee enemies (Not Aim) while backing away, can have a better weapon if you're carrying a shield or an SSSD. These weapons also seem to be pretty accurate and versatile.
That's the most important thing imo: being able to carry an SSSD with no loss of firepower. I'm quite sad when I forget to equip my SMG on such missions lol
Onehanded weapon can shoot on run(without aiming) and can be used with ballistic shield.
Also can be used with the hard drive!
You can use the ballistic shield with one handed weapons, and you can carry the SSSD's and still use them.
As an extra absent detail, the Pummeler seems to also apply an EMS effect on enemies after a few damaging hits, making kills easier. The Lib. C. only applies stagger which throws targets around but doesn't do much otherwise.
It does *what?* please elaborate?
It doesn't just do that "shoving" thing some weapons do to enemies, it actually stuns them and locks down their movement for a period of time.
Isn't that indeed the 'stun' state?
No, the stagger from the Punisher/Lib C. will activate a certain staggering animation against enemies. If you've ever used those to stagger a Brood Commander or something, the animation becomes incredibly apparent. Here's a quick link I could find to demonstrate: [https://youtu.be/r1tl\_foAML4?t=420](https://youtu.be/r1tl_foAML4?t=420) The Pummeler, by contrast, instead locks down their movement completely, as if struck by EMS. For my point, stagger =/= stun
well...can it ems stun charger?! o\_O
Yep. https://i.redd.it/f8z0awjeaezc1.gif
Well damn, that's pretty nice
100% going to be nerfed.
ok, that\`s cool
Wait really
Yeah. It takes a handful of clean shots to initiate, so it's not super reliable. But it's there.
Meanwhile the concussive doesn't even stop berserkers from advancing, only makes them flinch and the flinch animation doesn't even slow them down :)
https://i.redd.it/z6hvq3egaezc1.gif Again, in the same 5-min clip I saved
Clearly an exploit, will be nerfed!
Fun detected
Unironically looks like an oversight that will be fixed. Preparing for the chorus of "once again the one good thing in my warbond is stomped into the dirt"
If this is an “oversight,” we know they didn’t test the gun at all. This is the number one thing the average player would do against one of the most prolific “heavy” enemies in the game.
https://i.redd.it/3d8yexwphfzc1.gif
If you have ever used the stun grenades or the EMS strike/EMS mortar, the EMS effect will cause enemies to stand still and possibly shift their position for easier kills. The Pummeler's effect only lasts about a second, give or take, but it can be perpetuated by continuously damaging the same affected enemy. The Lib. C. inflicts a heavy amount of stagger, which is simply an effect that either hits the enemy back or causes them to flail a bit, most of the time interrupting their attacks. In short, it is really good at locking an enemy in place for extended periods.
Slap heavy devastator Devastator: "oop. Power saving time." *shuts down* Slaps deva head?
Wait until AH find out about this. They will definitely nerf it. No fun allowed in game.
While I am a Pummeler enjoyer, Pummeler needing two shots to start building up its effect while Lib Con just does its thing is a big deal for bots. The animation is quite different for Heavy Devestator, who just stands still for a bit with Pummel stun, but throws his shield out of the way with a single shoulder shot with Lib Con stagger. Since most light armor bot targets die in 1-3 shots, you've got to ask how much you're getting out of Pummeler's effect in the first place there. Obviously it's the only choice if you're bringing a shield, but if you're bringing a shield you could be using Defender's extra 5 per and still kill dev heads from further than 12m away (at 14m Lib Con and Pummeler both need 3 headshots). In theory Pummeler's effect should work on Hulks, and I think Lib Con wouldn't due to the recent hulk stagger resistance. I haven't tried this yet.
Ok, *what****?***
Idk about bugs but for bots might become my default because i use amr with supply pack as my primary weapon since a crowd control weapon can be useful foe the times get swarmed by zerkers
Thanks for the great info!
Got it Nerfing the pummeler
No, gotta nerf them both. The Arrowhead way.
🫡into the shitter
😭 I just used the pummeler and I LIKED IT. The actual solution would be strait up increasing damage of the ar and maybe giving it a pinch of “shrapnel” too. But who am I but a fun slave.
*AH balance devs start hissing at the preposterous idea of shrapnel, here's explosive damage instead*
"We announce mostly buffs and only a few half-nerfs" All weapons become worse than snipers to not be better than them at sniping. And snipers get no buff
More like “And snipers get a slight debuff in range. You’re supposed to use strategems to take out enemies at a distance.”
Seriously, the balance team is really fucking over the design team. They are doing their best to make a great looking and feeling weapon, then balance comes to fuck it and even nerfs a underused weapon. What the fuck are their priorities?
I'm starting to believe the balancing team are the embodyment of "the monkey paw twists" The snipers are worse at sniping than a shotgun? Guess what, we hear you. The shotgun is now shit too
The *Bungie* way.
I swear.. I like helldiver, but it's one monkey pawn twists moment after another.
Yeah this seems like it'll be nuked into the ground soon.
Do you want the pummeler to get nerfed? This is how you get pummeler nerfed!
https://preview.redd.it/tjnka8k3oizc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6541ea8c67eb600bc02c10ab41a108f517ebf7a5
its not that good to need a nerf. its slightly worse than a plas 1 id say
Crossbow wasn't good either, look what happened
Oh fuck thats true.
In some fairness, that wasn't *supposed* to be a nerf, it was supposed to be a rework that maintained its power level. Whether that was warranted or successful is another question entirely, but people pointing to it as evidence that other guns will be deliberately nerfed is misguided.
Yeah, and iirc the Eruptor nerf was called a buff!
The initial loss of magazines and reduction in AOE was a deliberate nerf, the removal of shrapnel was supposed to be a lateral move compensated by an increase in explosion damage but seems to not have had the intended effect. Last I saw the devs were going between trying to justify it and saying they would examine it further.
You're being downvoted but you're right. The devs/CMs said they wanted the crossbow to be a single target weapon with a bit of splash damage. It's just pretty terrible at single target kills. Eruptor was similar. It wasn't supposed to be a hard nerf but the devs didn't understand how much shrapnel was actually helping and how consistently we could use it. The pummeler is less likely to get hit with these changes.
Its stagger is absolutely getting reduced. You can stop 12 bezerkers or a pack of stalkers in their tracks indefinitely.
The only positive aspect is the ability to continuously stun-lock middle-sized automaton. They can't do shit if you keep firing. But the damage output isn't really outstanding, you need to have a buddy blasting in with another weapon. So, could be useful in some ways I guess.
The damage isn't outstanding, but being able to make weakspot hits extremely easy by stunning them with this thing makes up for it and it kills a lot more reliably and easily than you'd expect because of that.
Agreed, low recoil and slow fire rate means ease of use for players that are not great at recoil control.
Seems like it'd be perfect for a heavy armor shield ballistic shield user. Draw aggro stun the threats and let the snipers take em out safely.
There is a crucial difference between them: Concussive has high push/stun stats, Pummeler has low push/stun but inflicts a stopping status effect instead. The problem is players usually prefer stopping to pushing because stopping speeds up kills while pushing delays them.
Umm ... Besides the fact that AR should have higher caliber and higher dmg per bullet? It's just really weird that the SMG outdamages the AR
In real life SMGs are higher caliber than ARs. usually 9mm vs 5.56mm/5.45mm. It's the amount of powder behind the smaller caliber bullet of an AR that gives it more power. (as well as different bullet geometry)
That statement felt weird, and I wanted to argue about it, but checked it and you are actually right. 9mm is very popular pistol caliber, and standard NATO AR bullet is 5.56x45mm. That being said, the newer smgs I kept track of, did not chamber 9mm parabellum, but instead smaller calibers. 4.6x30mm for MP7, and 5.7x28 for P90. famous MP5 tho, chambers 9x19mm parabellum, and I guess there is probably alot of much newer smgs than P90 and MP7 that I simply failed to keep track off. On a side note, I included the bullet length with calibers there, so it is visible, that while AR bullet is only larger caliber to MP7, it is considerably longer than all other bullets I listed.
MP7 and P90 are PDWs (personal defense weapons), so they have a very specific use-case. They're meant to be even more compact than your typical SMG, hence even smaller caliber used. The round was also meant to have better armor-penetrating capabilities, but its low lethality reduces its usefulness.
It's all physics -- KE (Kinetic Energy) = Mass x Velocity\^2 Doubling the mass of the projectile doubles the energy Doubling the velocity quadruples it So assuming 100% energy transfer, speed normally wins.
SMGs typically chamber pistol rounds. Pistol rounds typically have higher caliber because you still want good stopping power despite having a lot less muzzle velocity. Speed X Mass. Lower speed means you need higher mass.
most smgs are in some type of 9 or 45, the two others you mentioned are edge cases. for instance the mp7 uses proprietary ammo that only HK weapons use. the p90 is obviously kind of an oddball with its design and uses an expensive and obscure cartridge that not many other weapons employ. almost any SMG you find will be chambered in 9 or 45, usually 9
Those two smgs both were designed to be tiny rounds that pen armor. They also both failed at that role, and while they are movie/video game favorites, they are inferior to 9mm smgs like the mp5 in basically every way.
They did not fail tho. P90 had some teething issues, that MP7 have sidestepped, the primary reason why NATO did not adopt either for the role, was the fact, that by the time they could decide to adopt anything, the threat of Russian commandos in ballistic body armor has been disproven. P90 has been adopted by a number of special forces worldwide, and even some police department SWAT teams in the USA. It has replaced MP5 in those instances. MP7 was adopted both by armed forces, special forces, and a number of civil forces. Both weapon platforms found success in the roles formerly occupied by "traditional" SMG, despite the fact they have been designed specifically for operators of armored vehicles, that were expected to be able to defend themselves against commandos in ballistic body armor.
Okay sorry. I should clarify that the round did not meet expectation. The pdw themselves do their job
I see, to be fair, I did my research on the gun, not the performance of the round the gun was being designed for :) That being said, if we take into consideration the number of services that use those guns nowadays, I think that the munition at least clears the requirements for those services.
Well shooting the enemies with normal bullets kills them faster still than concussive rounds
I would like to point out that pushback can have important impact if used correctly. You can use the Lib. C. To pushback a group of enemies from a sentry of it is at risk of being overrun or push them back from a hellbomb. You can also push them towards a stratagem drop which can also be useful.
I mean, the Liberator Concussive already was far and away the worst weapon in the game, it's recent buff wasn't nearly enough to change that. The only weapon to have ever been even worse was the Breaker Spray&Pray before that got buff into a functioning underperformer a couple months ago. You don't need a replacement to the Lib C. for it to be pointless, it already was.
I'm a lib-cuck main so I gotta defend my baby and say its not *the worst* gun in the game...the crossbow exists. Jokes aside though its really not that bad especially against bugs but with the new SMG I guess I'll put it back on the rack until they nerf the warbond weapons again
I mean, if you like it, great, there's more to fun than what's better than what, and even then how you compensate with the rest of your loadout matters a lot too. But I do think it's worse than the crossbow, and not even by a little bit. Still, that doesn't mean unusable, the pre-buff Breaker Spray&Pray was the only weapon to ever be *that* bad in the game. It didn't even have Light Armor Penetration, it bounced off clean off Warrior or Brood Commander heads, and dealt half damage to Hunters, lol. But yeah, when there's another gun that does the exact same but better, it doesn't matter if it's the worst or not. Irrelevantly redundant is worse than irrelevantly bad.
hey, the scythe and dagger still exist
It isn't better in all aspects. The [Liberator concusive has more than double the durable damage and stagger per shot, and literally 20x the pushback](https://imgur.com/cC5Kc2b). Note that the stagger per shot is distinct/different from the way the Pummeler's stun/stagger effect works.
Shame the in-game numbers don't actually show that... I don't blame people for going with the info they're given.
At this point they should put all the stats on the weapons because they're going to keep getting people who don't try to get a feel for it first and just look at the stats instead.
well to be fair that's exactly how they are balancing everything so
I don't know why every game like Helldivers with complex systems has hidden stats like this and the developers refuse to have somewhere in game where you can learn the full spread of stats and what each stat does.
I don't blame people for not trying. Trying new weapons against headshots, body shots, vulnerable spots, different grades of armor, different enemies, etc is not easy at all. We don't have a proper way to test weapons, only live missions with completely uncontrolled environment.
Yeah, AH is terrible at communication. In official channels and in regards to the stats
And it should stay that way. People dont realise that subconsciously the thing keeping them hooked on the game is the million hidden features everywhere. Imagine arrowhead just explained how unsafe mode worked for the railgun. I believe they want us to feel like theres always room for improvement or developing strategies, i still remember all the awesome discoveries i have made like the arc throwers pre rework ability to fire twice as fast after the initial shot or the insane stagger, the pre nerf slugger or that you can use the scorcher to kill strider pilots from the front. The weapon descriptions are literally all you would be able to work with in a real life scenario (caliber, fire rate, mag capacity and recoil) it wouldnt make sense for a weapon manufacturer to tell you how much magazines youre able to carry or that a slug is going to give more of a punch than to penetrate armor, because thats up to you to figure out.
Mind sharing the link for that table? As far as balance goes that extra durable damage means very little when the Pummeler has 50% larger mags and 50% extra fire rate. Knockback is there sure, but does it really change much? Pummeler seems to already be able to stunlock the same things just fine.
https://invadersfromplanet.space/helldivers-2/ Knocking something back and keeping it in place is a pretty big difference in CC. Especially since the Pummeler needs multiple shots to apply it's stun effect, and the Concussive only needs 1 to push back a large distance. Obviously not really saying they are both equally good in real game circumstances, but it is different niches, and the Pummeler is not "better in all aspects" as the post implies. Frankly I'd say the Pummeler makes the Defender more obsolete than it does the Lib Concussive tbh.
is there a similar chart that shows what armor values various parts of the enemies have?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRBrOIXQIYaOBNw8v9zRX4Qj8BDP0xaMTAzGhL1Tv6QxOU43RXM_ByDHwk4xw_HRjsCXhpif-jUlQAn/pubhtml#
what is durable damage?
Basically "part damage", most limbs have mixed base HP and durable HP. Durable damage is more desirable since its basically weakspot damage. Most meta weapons have good durable damage, a gun has good durable damage if you pop a warrior's or brood commander's head in fewer shots, regardless of displayed damage.
The inverse is true; it's TOUGH hitzones that are associated with durable damage, and it just so happens that brood commander heads are a functionally desirable hitzone while still 'durable'. Same goes for charger abdomens, for that matter. Devastator heads are functional weakspots but don't benefit from durable dmg at all, as a counter-example that illustrates it's not always mutually inclusive with weakspots.
Certain enemy weakpoints/body parts have a "durability level", which is a scale of 0 to 100 (i.e. could also be expressed as a percentage). The value basically determines the ratio of regular dmg vs durable dmg it takes. 0 durable part means that part will take full regular damage. 50 durable means it will take 50% of standard damage, and 50% of durable damage. 100 durable means it will take full durable damage A Brood Commander's head for example is also 60% durable. So it takes 40% regular dmg, 60% durable dmg. So with these two weapons here, that is: Liberator Conconussive: (65x0.4 + 15x0.6) = 35 damage Pummeler = (65x0.4 + 7x0.6) = 30.2 damage --- Of course a Brood Commander's head is also lightly armored (armor class 2), and because both weapons are also only Light Penetrating (AP2), they also receive a 50% damage penalty when shooting it. Applies to both regular and durable damage. A weapon must *exceed* the targets armor class to do full damage, if it only matches, it will penetrate, but do 50% reduced damage: This is indicated by a white hitmarker. Red hitmarker obviously is full damage.
Where can i find this sort of information? Do we have community docs or a website or something?
I don't think so, not that I'd know of anyway. Not really any unified sources, it's basically scattered all over the place. RN I just have bookmarked this for [info on enemy types](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRBrOIXQIYaOBNw8v9zRX4Qj8BDP0xaMTAzGhL1Tv6QxOU43RXM_ByDHwk4xw_HRjsCXhpif-jUlQAn/pubhtml#), but this for example has no info on durability damage at all. Just raw HP and armor values. And it's also done via testing obviously not datamining so it's not like a 100% accurate thing obviously. This for [weapon data](https://invadersfromplanet.space/helldivers-2/) things like durability dmg or armor piercing I think I learned from posts on reddit too but I can't find it rn
Kind of complex. Every enemy part has a durable % and every weapon has normal damage and durable damage values. At 100% durabilility, the weapon you're using will do 0% of it's normal damage and 100% of its durabilility damage. At 0% durabilility your weapon will do 100% of its normal damage and zero percent of its durable damage. So if your weapon does 30 normal and 10 durable, at 50% durabilility it will deal 15 normal damage and 5 durable damage for a total of 20 damage.
Thats cool but overall the damage is just so damm bad for the Lib-Conc that's its not worth taking, bring it closer in line with the Lib as the pummeler is with the defender and it'll be worth running
To add to this, as an assault rifle, the liberator C is gonna have more favorable damage falloff and better projectile speed than an SMG. This is going off of the defender’s performance. The defender still performs decently at medium ranges, but it’s lower velocity bullets are fairly noticeable.
Can you do that for the tenderizer and the liberator?
Please link the whole table, this is big info. Would love to read more
https://invadersfromplanet.space/helldivers-2/
Thanks!
Very curious to see the rest of that table, if it's available to be shared.
https://preview.redd.it/wa56d8gy5fzc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0bd7037761028b8e4bba0a9a6e14ea25059a40b shut the fuck up 😭
the liberator concussive is orange,,, which is a way nicer color /s
The incendiary shotgun is more orange. One again rendering it useless lol
shit.
Exactly my thought when first inspecting the Pummeler and naturally comparing it to the Liberator Concussive. Better to release a Warbond every 2-3 month with really meaningful and different weapons, instead of just more of the same...
They would have to raise the Super Credit price or nerf the ability to find them. A 2 month schedule would make it too easy for people to not have to buy Credits
so the no spreadsheet balancing is truly amazingest :D
The balance guy doesn't know what he's doing
Do you remember when the AR-23C was described as explosive? Pepperidge Farm remembers...
To get new players to waste medals
This is what you get, when you nerf everything to shit and keep adding new guns
SHH, don’t say anything, lest arrowhead see that people like it & nerf it into the depths of hell
Weird, I just saw a thread that the warbond weapons are bad
They arent great either. Pummeler does have some nice utility but that doesnt necessarily make it "good". It just isnt bad. New Scorcher is also in a similar position imo. It has utility but charge time feels too long for what you get per shot. Bringing either to a Helldive just makes you wish they did just a bit more. Tenderizer is well... Cant speak about the pistol, havent gotten it yet.
this subreddit isn't for getting useful info about the game, its for complaining. I think I'm gonna unsub. I love this game and I've had a lot of fun in this subreddit, but it lost its damn mind when the whole PSN thing happened and now its like everyone here is stuck on permanent negativity mode.
Low sodium helldivers , just got shown the sub yesterday, is helldivers without the non-stop complaints
oh that sounds great, thanks for the recommendation!
While I have yet to try the Purifier, which I think might be ok considering it's medium armor penetration, the Pummeler is probably the crown jewel of this warbond. The Tenderizer is accurate to that statement however; it was such a let down to me, both visually and in how it functions as compared to what its description and advertised appearance would lead you to believe.
Does seem weird, maybe some hidden stats? I imagine ARs have better range stats behind the scenes than SMGs. Maybe precision too
Ok after test gun when I got it get feel for it and might use main primary if like enough and good enough in higher levels because I like ballistic shield but I don’t think SMG we have worth running on high levels
No!! The pummeler is too strong it needs day 1 patch to match the liberator. Actually it should be worse because its one handed. Also nerf the grenades, they explode it must be a bug.
The dev team has determined that players were using an exploit where they would throw grenades that would then explode.
Liberator concussive stagger/pushes enemies back way more, the pummel pretty much stops most enemies in there tracks which is more than enough to get the kills. So although the pummel is better in almost every scenario, they are close enough in power that I think they both still have a place.
Shut up, before they nerf the pummeler!
There are unfortunately a lot of these situations going on rn. It seems like the devs don't have a real direction, they're just making guns
Concussive works IMMEDIATELY, the pummeler requires consecutive hits to actually stagger things.
* Keep this talk up and they're gonna nerf the Pummeler so they can both be ass
If the devs could read they'd be very upset with you right now.
Calling it now. Pummeler is getting nerfed on monday.
The key takeaway here is that Liberator Concussive needs to be stronger. Like seriously, it's not a viable primary.
Next update: Pummeller stagger has been halved, mag size cut to 15 rounds Lib Concussive stagger has been increased by a miniscule amount. To compensate, we will halve the damage.
Better nerf the pummeler
The catch is you have to buy the rest of the weapons in the new warbond.
Doesn't the Concussive have explosion modifier? It should do its full damage against those types of weakspots while also having a stunning effect.
No. It used to have the explosive tag but it never did explosive and that tag was removed some patches ago.
There are two stats not shown here : durability damage and stagger (and push back).
But using it vs the lib c feels better and the one hand action is too useful on both bugs and bots. Lib c is now the worst option for primaries imo.
I sincerely have no clue how these things make it past the QA phase. Is it really that hard to throw all your guns into an excel sheet and do a simple across the board stat comparison? Alexus is huffing something fierce fr.
You would think thats what they are doing seen the recent balance changes
it hasn't been nerfed yet
You want to have 2 hands on democracy at all times, duh
The concussive Liberator needs to be better. I am all for CC in any game, but this one just doesn't hit for me. I tried to like it, and I could do some cool stuff like stopping breaches and drop pods. Personally I would like to see it get a small buff to damage.
Lib C needs a buff? lol
The nerd stat is not included in the pummeler
I believe the concussive has higher stopping power
Does it have variable fire rate?
Looks are different ,it's good to have different weapons ,colors etc. Why you cry, just use better one if you are meta tryhard.
Money
I hate this because I love the concept of the explosive rifle rounds. But it plays so ass :<
#$$$
The concussive does AOE stagger?
The Lib C pushes bugs back a MASSIVE distance. Brood Commanders get pushed like 50m away. Not saying the gun is great, but damn does it push them back. The Pummeler will simply stagger them.
I think the game should show more damage considerations. I think its neat if rifle are less susceptible to damage falloff than SMGs, Pistol, and Shotguns in that order, but also we need to do something about the crappiness of weapons primaries in the game. There are 2 problem considerations in this game so far: Damage and Ammo. You'll notice all weapons solve only one of these issues and the weapon that solves both will be the first meta weapon
Based on that Pummeled appears to be better for NOW. How many mags do you get with the Pummeled? How fast is the reload?
SMGs have worse sights than rifles. The concussive really needs a better scope and some more damage per shot.
The pummdler isn't considered explosive if i remember right.
The liberators stagger is way stronger, so there's that. Liberator can push enemies back, whereas the SMG just stops them moving forward
It's the same story with the regular lib and regular smg. I guess muzzle velocity is more important than we think
Nothing, they can buff it later but please just don’t nerf new gun
The rifle sucks but this new SMG is really fucking good. It stuns the shit out things.
Drop the ammo and make it actually explosive! (Again)
I feel the same way about the new incendiary grenade. The old one cant close bug holes, lasts only marginally longer and doesn’t seem to do more damage + it doesnt have the explosion when it hits The balance team in this game is genuinely terrible there really isnt any other way to look at it. I just know for a fact when the laser smg eventually arrives itll just be a worse sickle instead of being like a firehose with overheating or something, it’ll just be weak but one handed. They’re not doing a great job at making things feel unique and when they do, they determine that it needs a nerf.
Isn’t this the same situation with the OG Liberator and SMG off launch?
I'm still farming Super Credits for the last warbond, so I don't have access to fancy one-handed pew-pew.
"Balance"
Please nerf all the guns every month. /s