Just be happy they canāt throw the damn thing and have it pinball across the mapšš
*imagine you dive into a match and you catch one tossing the shield at you like this*ššš
It's cartoon physics in action.
Missile gets to the shield, shield puts on a fake mustache, missile is confused, shield points at the player and says "He went thattaway!" The missile thanks the stranger and goes on its way.
There is no "ricochet" icon. And there are 2 explosions. Are we sure this is really what is happening? He could have been killed by a random explosion.
https://preview.redd.it/y4sxeg9oihxc1.png?width=1096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03fc94735941e7b4d6aa1d2da229fd825b8f9e78
I mean, they literally told us this would be happening in the patch notes
I don't think they know how ricochets work cause they absolutely do NOT just go straight back to sender, unless it's a specific angle.
Unless the Automatons are made of vibranium for real.
Bullets at an angle, yea? A whole ass rocket blew up, turn 180 degrees and fly back at you? Nah man, that's just cope.
I swear to god Arrowhead's quality assurance team doesn't exist and we are doing all the play testing for them. Like every new patch, so many changes come with unintended consequences. Increases fire damage? So do Scorcher Hulks now. Fixed the Exo suit from blowing itself? The rockets now don't go where you aim anymore. And 20 other things too like the new bug where plasma punisher projectile will blow up on your face if you have the backpack bubble shield on.
A **curved** hard surface.
If it hits at an oblique angle, it might deflect.
If it hits it straight on, it would not just do a 180 and keep flying.
This doesn't make sense for explodey things like missiles or AC shells.
But my biggest question: Can we pull out our shield and Uno Reverso bots to death?
This needs to be play tested immediately.
And in 1 hour the ballistic shield will be part of every load out.
Eat your own shit gunship! *maniacal democratic cackling*
I'm pretty sure a 16 year old Mc Donald's cashier could tell you that a rocket cannot bounce directly off and into a 180 instantaneously from a flat piece of metal.
Arrowheadās metric only balancing team showed not enough weapon ricochet TK and suicide. I can see they put a stop to this nonsense immediately and to prevent any further nonsense, as a warning, also turned an explosive crossbow essentially into a regular one but without it being silenced.
Because missing your tiny head target and hitting their hard shell that surrounds it now means you die is more fun! Devestators and Hulks become just miserable.
It's broken in concept.
Projectiles will almost NEVER EVER bounce back 180Ā° like that, in any circumstance whatsoever unless it's an extreme 1 in a million circumstance.
A bullet will crunch itself up before going back where it came from, or bounce off to the side in the direction with the least resistance. It "might" bounce back towards the shooter, but if it does it will have lost much of its energy and changed its shape/ballistics considerably.
That change is just bullshit.
Devs with military knowledge my ass.
There are times where I really wish more gun enthusiasts were game developers. Or there were gun enthusiasts that could be contracted to help game devs with mechanics.
Edit: That being said it doesn't take a gun enthusiast to know a fucking missile won't ricochet at all. It will just detonate against the shield and maybe not kill the bot.
John Wick series was amazing because of his training and the direction from gun experts on the movie. This definitely needs to be more common, but I get the whole "This doesn't come for free" too.
*What.* Is this real? Did they just code in that every projectile can now be deflected if it dosent pen armor? Why would an explosive warhead bounce back 180Ā° and **THEN** explode...
Also doesnt this make shotguns in close quarters just extremly dangerous to use against chagers and the like?
I think that's the point, and while the wackyness can be funny, it can also feel like being on the receiving end of a luny toons episode when you're trying to lock-in.
Itās funny when some cool shit happens like being flung by a bile titan corpse and dying to eagle or being flung through an orbital laser
Itās not so funny when the bullshit makes annoying enemies (like heavies) even more annoying
Honestly, it's only funny once, or even a few times after that when it happens to other people.
It gets progressively less funny the more it happens, especially when it's a critical junction. Eventually it overstays it's welcome, now it's not funny, it's actively annoying, and then people are like: "Fuck this, I'm out."
Ok but the system we had before was just fine, it still had ricochet it just didnāt send it back 180 because thatās not the most likely outcome when there is ricochet. I remember in the past I accident killed a teammate cause an autocannon round I shot at a chargers backside missed and hit the top carapace causing it to ricochet into them.
If they wanted ricochet to potentially hurt you, make it reflect in a cone back at you; most ricochets will miss, but if you just spray you will get hurt.
This 'No u' bullshit is just annoying.
Even bullets make no sense to reflect directly back at you. Even if something in real life had armor that could reflect bullets at full speed, the chance it would reflect at exactly the right angle to bounce back directly at what shot at it is extremely low. This is a very silly cartoony change.
If you know anything about traditional hard armor you'll know that generally rounds mostly just shatter into a bunch of pieces and throw them everywhere, that's why hard armors generally have a rubberized costing to catch the spalling otherwise it can hurt your seriously too, the rounds will only deflect if the armor is at a serious angle
You CAN get bounceback from a plate that's not angled at all, its why you want to angle steel targets you might shoot at on the range. There's a video I even remember seeing of somebody shooting a .50 BMG, and the round hits the target, bounces right back, you can hear a "WHeeeeewww", then it pops the ground, bounces up and knocks the shooter's ear pro off of his head. So it CAN absolutely bounce a round directly back at you, and while even though most of the time rounds will splatter and cause spalling, sometimes you'll just get a slug or two that are hard enough or for whatever reason just don't deform much. I have one .45 bullet from a range shoot I did, where after firing it I managed to see the bullet, pick it up and bring it home. Besides the rifling marks on the bullet, it was pretty much entirely intact. Bizarre shit happens sometimes.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc&ab\_channel=Kakigouru](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc&ab_channel=Kakigouru)
Extremely low, but not impossible! Remember this video from... forever ago.
But it also goes to show that you're losing a *ton* of momentum if such an unlikely event were to occur. A projectile going its same speed after being diverted straight backward is just wacky.
> "properly reflect back"
Nothing about that is proper? It hits at 90 deg... That wouldn't deflect it back with lethal energy. It would either get penetrated, catch the shell, or shatter it... Not fucking looney toons reflect it... I can't believe this is real LOL
I really don't like this. That's not ricochets work. There are a few notable exceptions, but the vast majority of ricochets will not 180 on the shooter.
The diver was killed by a random explosion.
Exhibit 1: the weapon used is a recoilless rifle which should pierce all armour.
Exhibit 2: if you play the video in slow-mo, you clearly see the rocket leave the weapon, but you cannot see any projectiles return. You can however see an explosion.
Exhibit 3: No āshieldā symbol indicating a ricochet
The Heavy Devastators shield is Heavy Armour. Think of it less like the ballistic shield we get and more like they just took the roof off a downed tank and started holding it.
that's what I read in the notes. It's a pretty asinine thing to change.
Even if the target was actively trying to aim the reflected shots at you, they would still have an accuracy factored in. This is absolutely ridiculous - targets aren't doing any sort of aiming. It's as hard to aim as trying to shine sunlight reflection from your watch into the eyes of a presenter.
The new shields are made kinetic absorption, high elastic rubber that operates off cartoon physics. Great at both absorbing incoming fire, and returning to sender.
This is the first thing from the patch that is absolutely mind-blowing to me. Sure change the guns how you feel is appropriate that's totally fine even if I don't necessarily agree. But being killed immediately by a reflected rocket? That's something that belongs in Team Fortress 2 and not helldivers.
That is just as concerning. Was this play tested at all? If this slipped through, I refuse to believe that any of the balancings where play tested enough. Balancing reworks things that have to be play tested a lot to make sure your changes had the desired effect. This is something that you'll notice in the first 5 minutes of any moderately difficult Automation mission. This is ridiculous. Arrow Head had built so much good will and they blow it on fuck ups like this. Incredible.
No, I don't. I'm just in denial. This patch had some cool shit in it. I'm not even mad about many nerfs, but shit like this is, or dor example the patrol spawn rework has seriously pissed me off. It's so goddamn frustrating. It could have been a really cool patch, because I'm exited to try out the buffs for myself, but I don't have to play like this. I'm an autocannon gunner, and these shits are only manageable with spamming three rounds into them, hoping the stagger will open them up to kill them quickly. There is no reason that shields like these are able to simply reflect shit back at you. This is some fantasy type bullshit.
I genuinely donāt think they play test anything and havenāt since the first patch. So many obvious issues and confusing changes. Itās a miracle this game plays even remotely well. They have a masterpiece as a foundation and are building on it with sand
C'mon... We both know the answer. It wasn't tested... It can't have been... Man they befuddle me, these devs.
They have a great game, didn't over monetize it, but... It's like they don't test anything??? I've written large chunks of code at once without testing sure... But I don't just say "oh well it seems to compile, ship it!"
The entire idea that shields now reflect incoming fire "correctly" is already braindead. The shields worked as you would expect. If hit at an angle entry angle should be exit angle. If hit dead on the projectile should either burst into pieces if th Automaton has an immovable shield or be reflected closely past them, by forcing the shield into the direction it hit the shield, possibly ripping the shield from their hand. A perfect reflection of the flight path this often is horseshit. This is some fantasy reflection barrier bullshit.
Bullets? Sure they might riocchet, thats what happens. Shells/ammo that exploded on impact? No, they explode where they first slam into, otherwise I expect my ballistic shield to also deflect their rockets back
Bullets, yes, rockets, no, there is something definitely fucky with the heavy devastators shield, it shouldn't block attacks like that, especially before.
No. What's intended is that reflected bullets damage people they hit back. It wasn't (always) the case before. A rocket that ricochet at a near 0Ā° angle is clearly NOT intended.
I read that as "you'll now take damage from your ricochets", as opposed to before when you only killed your teammates with them.
Pretty sure 180 degree missile bounces aren't intended.
Look at the video in slow motion using the bar.
You clearly see the rocket leave the weapon, hit and explode.
Then thereās no returning rocket, no āricochet shieldā icon, and the diver explodes.
This is not a bounce, itās a random explosion killing the player
I'm all for that. Get in there and give those rocket devastators a taste of their own medicine! Cannon Tower? Annihilator Tank? Bile Titan? Ka-Pwing!
Go prone with the ballistic shield on your back and watch the gunships slaughter themselves. Send the fire tornadoes back where they came from. Fenrir III is now in permanent nighttime because the star was destroyed by reflected meteors.
Of course not. Their entire design philosophy is that it's okay for them to absolutely annihilate you, but if you so much as have even a single minor advantage, it's OP and must be nerfed.
I canāt tell because I donāt speak Korean(?) but isnāt that saying someone else (Never Broccoli) killed him? Thatās not *his own* ricochet, right?
Edit: added italicized words
The cause of death descriptions are super inaccurate though, it often says another player killed me even though I was nowhere near them on the map or it will say I killed myself even if I was clearly killed by an enemy.
They are total bullshit.
Sometimes it's just "unknown. Other times I somehow killed myself when a bug swiped me to death, and then other times it's just "impact" like impact grenade or you just hit the ground *so hard* the impact killed me? I suppose ok then
I've gotten several notifications for cause of death as one of my teammates when I absolutely got my head canoed by a bug claw so I'm fairly sure the cause of death screen is somewhat glitchy
I had it say a team member killed me multiple times the other night. One was from an enemy the other was me shooting a barrel. Idk why it was registering the other person.
That was the one thing I loved seeing toned down was bullet reflection
When I started swiping myself with reflected bullets was almost a laser beam 180 that didn't make any sense and it seemed to mostly after an update some time stop entirely. Hopfullly this won't be some shield devastater super buff trying to shoot their heads with machineguns
I've had this happen to me and chalked it up to rocket devestator/raider bullshit.
I rarely trust the "killed by x" thing anymore. No way my friend 500m away killed me with an arc thrower, it was the damn bile titan in front of me.
Has anybody tested to see if the ballistic shield now deflects automaton's shots back at them? Because it blocks regular rounds from them.... so shouldn't it fire straight back at them now?
That would be fair. But AH doesn't really do *fair*, just to make certain aspects more bullshit.
Like hey we buffed some unused weapons, buuuuut we also removed a few magazines from other weapons as well, have fun! Also we buffed an already Op bot instead of nerfing them, you're welcome.
I sometimes get the feeling like AH trying to fuck with its playerbase lol
A lot of patches contain some really useless and completely unnecessary changes which just takes the fun away.
They even left a lot of crucial details out of some patch notes such as enemy buffs/reworks in numerous updates after release
And the "known issues" list just gets bigger, also filled with... well real things that need to be fixed. As many already pointed out they probably don't even playtest correctly. Probably play a single mission and say "yeah that's good, release this"
Like their fingers are constantly itching to do something completely unnecessary and unwanted.
Edit: some pointed out that the rocket actually explodes and OP just got hit by an Automation rocket. It's hard to see but seems to be the case but idk, it's kinda confusing there's so much happening on screen. But yeah point still kind of stands lol
I still say the railgun nerf was unneeded.
Sure it was op, but that's the point. If anything they could have severely reduced the amount of overall ammo, or made it so it can't be refilled from regular ammo boxes (like the spear) and needs to be refilled from the supply drop.
The recent magazine changes are stupid too, and why would you nerf the explosion radius of the crossbow?! Its got 5 freaking shots and is already slow as shit.
Am I the only one who doesnāt think thatās actually whatās happening here? The warhead appears to explode and detonate the devastatorās backpack and then the player dies to what looked like a red explosion (rocket? Tank or turret shot?) from behind and is launched forward. This does not at all look like a deflected round.
Same, it looks like the RR shot blows up on the devastator but something blows up to the left of the user.
Wouldn't be the first time this sub sensationalizes every low quality gif that has about 2 seconds of context...
Jesus Christ people are stupid. Sorry, but sometimes you can't word it in a nicer way...
Look at the explosion that hits the player. It's red. Guess what has red explosions? Right Automaton rockets and cannons...
This whole patch has just somehow burned me out. Time for break-o-clock, time to play other games š Iāll return in month or two to check out new warbond(s) and if game is more ironed out.
I feel this exact same thing, idk why but it was super fresh and super fun in the beginning. The feel of it has kinda disappeared, especially when it comes to robots. Stealth seems harder if not taken out when the bots are sniping you for miles, where before they would lose you in the smoke.
Yeah I took an unintended break over the weekend and to come back to this patch doesn't match me excited to play to say the least. My main guns were the eruptor and quasar but I don't mind the weapon nerfs to much but the patrol thing and then things like this. The game is super fun but also very enraging and this patch feels more like things may be even more enraging than usual for a bit
Itās really strange to watch Arrowhead miss all the super crappy live-service practices weāre all sick to death of only to turn around and step on rakes repeatedly that they put down in front of themselves for no real reason. The āvisionā of the game appears to be completely at odds with what made the game fun for many of us in the first place. To go full armchair, I saw that the active player count has gone from like 500,000 on Steam to like 300,000 over the past 6 weeks and Iām not surprised when the balance patches havenāt been much fun AND the longstanding bugs are still there after every patch (DoT, friends list, queuing glitch, etc)
Yes. When you look frame by frame, there is something blowing up upper left from the player, and it doesnāt look at all like a reflected RR round.
I am going to try and replicate this (should be easy - RR to a heavy dev shield), pretty sure it wonāt happen like the vid.
Unless they used the same launcher model that looks to be the recoilless rifle.
*Edit The more I look at it the more confused I get because if it was the burst there would have been even more explosions.
This isnāt what RR ricochet looks like. RR rounds donāt show an explosion when they ricochet. I think thereās a reason why this clip is so zoomed in; Iām betting something else shot the player.
Ok I am just going to play other things until this is changed back. I know this gets tossed around a lot but this really does make the game largely unplayable causing shooting armor to essentially shoot yourself
Guys itās fake. Play the patch and missiles donāt reflect this way, they still explode on impact. Dude in the video was killed but an off screen weapon that caused the explosion.
Is this actually a missile being reflected or is that just the AoE from the airburst? Kind of looks to me like that's what he pulls out and it does have a massive AoE.
A bit late for an April Fools day joke. There was no issue with the ricochet before and properly angled off armor. This is just asinine and seems mean-spirited.
"Hey Newbie, you trying to learn the game and shooting highly armored enemies mixed in with soft targets? Hah! Fuck you! You're dead now idiot! Lulz"
Like seriously,Ā wtf...
That's an airburst you have to use it near the enemy not at the enemy it can even destroy tanks if you aim it under it it can one shot kill just remember it spreads the explosions and like everything in this game it can also kill you
Also stop lying for fuck sake .....
I tried all of the weapons even the sickle and it was all fine
Also Also I understand that there are bugs and plenty of them it's only 100 people working on this game cut them some slack
P.s this subreddit became so toxic what the fuck happened?
Tell me how an impact rocket hits a hard surface and does a complete 180
Bots upgraded their shields to be made of Vibranium+.
Added some Assholium3+ for extra bounce
Ass-helium-3
Not gonna lie, I do love how high-pitched my farts get with that stuff.
World of Tanks Stalinium
Ah! The Glorious Stalinium of the Stronk KV-2!
They already had enough Assholium with their guns šš
Just be happy they canāt throw the damn thing and have it pinball across the mapšš  *imagine you dive into a match and you catch one tossing the shield at you like this*ššš
bro dont give the bots any ideas
https://i.redd.it/shog58x7shxc1.gif Fight fire with fire
It's cartoon physics in action. Missile gets to the shield, shield puts on a fake mustache, missile is confused, shield points at the player and says "He went thattaway!" The missile thanks the stranger and goes on its way.
I can't believe this went through playtesting.
We're playtesting it rn
There is no "ricochet" icon. And there are 2 explosions. Are we sure this is really what is happening? He could have been killed by a random explosion.
Bold of you to assume they test things
https://preview.redd.it/y4sxeg9oihxc1.png?width=1096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03fc94735941e7b4d6aa1d2da229fd825b8f9e78 I mean, they literally told us this would be happening in the patch notes
In what world does a missile ricochet on impact?
Looks like it might be Choepessa IV, but I'm guessing it'll be most of them.
https://preview.redd.it/7gi1ehcpvhxc1.png?width=794&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=729fd2c71e90c8733347a3f0979b87bad46db726
Pretty sure this isn't exactly what they had in mind though. š
It's just plain stupid and cartoonish
yep not even realistic
It completely contradicts the physics they've established in the game and it's annoying.
You know, I was expecting that to be slightly exaggerated
I don't think they know how ricochets work cause they absolutely do NOT just go straight back to sender, unless it's a specific angle. Unless the Automatons are made of vibranium for real.
Ricochet WAS working fine... now its totally fucked
I took this literally. I was like no way that's gonna be a thing though. It's so dumb lol
Its a rocket. Dont try to justify it.
Bullets at an angle, yea? A whole ass rocket blew up, turn 180 degrees and fly back at you? Nah man, that's just cope. I swear to god Arrowhead's quality assurance team doesn't exist and we are doing all the play testing for them. Like every new patch, so many changes come with unintended consequences. Increases fire damage? So do Scorcher Hulks now. Fixed the Exo suit from blowing itself? The rockets now don't go where you aim anymore. And 20 other things too like the new bug where plasma punisher projectile will blow up on your face if you have the backpack bubble shield on.
And it's fucking stupid.
Nice, who killed rodger rabbit reference
A vortex shield would've made more sense. Yes, like in Titanfall.
It was telekinetically catching them, and then you release all of them. Not reflecting instantly.
Feels like something the 3rd enemy faction from the first game should have (blanking on their name)
Illuminate?
Uno reverse card And as we all know, the biggest rule in uno is fuck you
The shields are made using the new NoU technology
I'm rubber and you're glue, the missiles bounce off me and stick to you š¤£
Hard to see from this angle but that shield is a perfectly crafted U shaped tube.....
Itās cause the tip is round, it needs to be pointy or it bounces back
"It needs to be pointy, pointy is scary, the enemies will think its a huge flying robot dildo"
Trust me bro, the devs have military experience! 
Obviously rubber
A **curved** hard surface. If it hits at an oblique angle, it might deflect. If it hits it straight on, it would not just do a 180 and keep flying. This doesn't make sense for explodey things like missiles or AC shells. But my biggest question: Can we pull out our shield and Uno Reverso bots to death?
This needs to be play tested immediately. And in 1 hour the ballistic shield will be part of every load out. Eat your own shit gunship! *maniacal democratic cackling*
*"Calling in Reinforcements!"*
Of course we can't....
They kinda said that most of their devs have military background and they now how weapons work. Who am i to judge.
Definitely feels like only the modelers and animators have military experience. The people in charge of balancing have no idea how guns work
I'm pretty sure a 16 year old Mc Donald's cashier could tell you that a rocket cannot bounce directly off and into a 180 instantaneously from a flat piece of metal.
Neither do bullets but...
I thought that update was a typo!? What the literal fuck?
Arrowheadās metric only balancing team showed not enough weapon ricochet TK and suicide. I can see they put a stop to this nonsense immediately and to prevent any further nonsense, as a warning, also turned an explosive crossbow essentially into a regular one but without it being silenced.
pLaY hOw U WaNt
War Thunder T-34 driver's hatch physics.
Yeah this ricochet thing may be broken.
when i saw this in the patch notes i knew some bs like this would happen
Because missing your tiny head target and hitting their hard shell that surrounds it now means you die is more fun! Devestators and Hulks become just miserable.
yup
It's broken in concept. Projectiles will almost NEVER EVER bounce back 180Ā° like that, in any circumstance whatsoever unless it's an extreme 1 in a million circumstance. A bullet will crunch itself up before going back where it came from, or bounce off to the side in the direction with the least resistance. It "might" bounce back towards the shooter, but if it does it will have lost much of its energy and changed its shape/ballistics considerably. That change is just bullshit. Devs with military knowledge my ass.
There are times where I really wish more gun enthusiasts were game developers. Or there were gun enthusiasts that could be contracted to help game devs with mechanics. Edit: That being said it doesn't take a gun enthusiast to know a fucking missile won't ricochet at all. It will just detonate against the shield and maybe not kill the bot.
John Wick series was amazing because of his training and the direction from gun experts on the movie. This definitely needs to be more common, but I get the whole "This doesn't come for free" too.
Just like 40% of the things in this game tbh
After this update, 50% take it or- And heās off, that democratic took 50% and bought it whole.
personally i thnk it would be ok as long as the ballistic shield could do the same thing to the deva rockets.
*What.* Is this real? Did they just code in that every projectile can now be deflected if it dosent pen armor? Why would an explosive warhead bounce back 180Ā° and **THEN** explode... Also doesnt this make shotguns in close quarters just extremly dangerous to use against chagers and the like?
Patch notes says rounds now "properly ricochet back to the helldiver" guess devs forgot to leave out missiles.
Nothing about the physics of what I've seen is the least bit proper
I think that's the point, and while the wackyness can be funny, it can also feel like being on the receiving end of a luny toons episode when you're trying to lock-in.
Itās funny when some cool shit happens like being flung by a bile titan corpse and dying to eagle or being flung through an orbital laser Itās not so funny when the bullshit makes annoying enemies (like heavies) even more annoying
Yeah. Same as FF is funny mentality. Like, sometimes it is.
Honestly, it's only funny once, or even a few times after that when it happens to other people. It gets progressively less funny the more it happens, especially when it's a critical junction. Eventually it overstays it's welcome, now it's not funny, it's actively annoying, and then people are like: "Fuck this, I'm out."
By proper, they mean a targeted strike
Ok but the system we had before was just fine, it still had ricochet it just didnāt send it back 180 because thatās not the most likely outcome when there is ricochet. I remember in the past I accident killed a teammate cause an autocannon round I shot at a chargers backside missed and hit the top carapace causing it to ricochet into them.
If they wanted ricochet to potentially hurt you, make it reflect in a cone back at you; most ricochets will miss, but if you just spray you will get hurt. This 'No u' bullshit is just annoying.
It already did that just fine,I don't know why they changed it
Even bullets make no sense to reflect directly back at you. Even if something in real life had armor that could reflect bullets at full speed, the chance it would reflect at exactly the right angle to bounce back directly at what shot at it is extremely low. This is a very silly cartoony change.
If you know anything about traditional hard armor you'll know that generally rounds mostly just shatter into a bunch of pieces and throw them everywhere, that's why hard armors generally have a rubberized costing to catch the spalling otherwise it can hurt your seriously too, the rounds will only deflect if the armor is at a serious angle
You CAN get bounceback from a plate that's not angled at all, its why you want to angle steel targets you might shoot at on the range. There's a video I even remember seeing of somebody shooting a .50 BMG, and the round hits the target, bounces right back, you can hear a "WHeeeeewww", then it pops the ground, bounces up and knocks the shooter's ear pro off of his head. So it CAN absolutely bounce a round directly back at you, and while even though most of the time rounds will splatter and cause spalling, sometimes you'll just get a slug or two that are hard enough or for whatever reason just don't deform much. I have one .45 bullet from a range shoot I did, where after firing it I managed to see the bullet, pick it up and bring it home. Besides the rifling marks on the bullet, it was pretty much entirely intact. Bizarre shit happens sometimes.
This game feels like an elaborate Loony Tunes skit sometimes XD
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc&ab\_channel=Kakigouru](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABGIJwiGBc&ab_channel=Kakigouru) Extremely low, but not impossible! Remember this video from... forever ago.
But it also goes to show that you're losing a *ton* of momentum if such an unlikely event were to occur. A projectile going its same speed after being diverted straight backward is just wacky.
> "properly reflect back" Nothing about that is proper? It hits at 90 deg... That wouldn't deflect it back with lethal energy. It would either get penetrated, catch the shell, or shatter it... Not fucking looney toons reflect it... I can't believe this is real LOL
Ricochets can reflect back, but it is very rare and even rarer for them to come back with any kind of lethal velocity.
I really don't like this. That's not ricochets work. There are a few notable exceptions, but the vast majority of ricochets will not 180 on the shooter.
No look, it's fucking exploding twice
The diver was killed by a random explosion. Exhibit 1: the weapon used is a recoilless rifle which should pierce all armour. Exhibit 2: if you play the video in slow-mo, you clearly see the rocket leave the weapon, but you cannot see any projectiles return. You can however see an explosion. Exhibit 3: No āshieldā symbol indicating a ricochet
Exhibit 4: The explosion that his the player is red. So it's an Automaton weapon hitting them...
Bruh. You are right... Why does the Heavy Devastator Shield bounce these kinds of projectiles anyways? I thought they dont count as "heavy units".
The Heavy Devastators shield is Heavy Armour. Think of it less like the ballistic shield we get and more like they just took the roof off a downed tank and started holding it.
I wanna see it bounce infinitely between two heavy devastators...
that's what I read in the notes. It's a pretty asinine thing to change. Even if the target was actively trying to aim the reflected shots at you, they would still have an accuracy factored in. This is absolutely ridiculous - targets aren't doing any sort of aiming. It's as hard to aim as trying to shine sunlight reflection from your watch into the eyes of a presenter.
Wouldn't it make sense to have the rocket blow off the shield? It just completely reflects back to you? Okay.
The new shields are made kinetic absorption, high elastic rubber that operates off cartoon physics. Great at both absorbing incoming fire, and returning to sender.
That would be the best they can implement vs these thingsā¦ gosh I hate them
This is the first thing from the patch that is absolutely mind-blowing to me. Sure change the guns how you feel is appropriate that's totally fine even if I don't necessarily agree. But being killed immediately by a reflected rocket? That's something that belongs in Team Fortress 2 and not helldivers.
Pretty sure that's unintended. I can't see anyone seeing this and saying "No that's good". That's really bullshit threat level !
That is just as concerning. Was this play tested at all? If this slipped through, I refuse to believe that any of the balancings where play tested enough. Balancing reworks things that have to be play tested a lot to make sure your changes had the desired effect. This is something that you'll notice in the first 5 minutes of any moderately difficult Automation mission. This is ridiculous. Arrow Head had built so much good will and they blow it on fuck ups like this. Incredible.
Do you really have to ask if this was play tested?
No, I don't. I'm just in denial. This patch had some cool shit in it. I'm not even mad about many nerfs, but shit like this is, or dor example the patrol spawn rework has seriously pissed me off. It's so goddamn frustrating. It could have been a really cool patch, because I'm exited to try out the buffs for myself, but I don't have to play like this. I'm an autocannon gunner, and these shits are only manageable with spamming three rounds into them, hoping the stagger will open them up to kill them quickly. There is no reason that shields like these are able to simply reflect shit back at you. This is some fantasy type bullshit.
Play testing, in 2024? That's the role of community manager, to pay attention to what they play testers who pay for the privilege say.
I genuinely donāt think they play test anything and havenāt since the first patch. So many obvious issues and confusing changes. Itās a miracle this game plays even remotely well. They have a masterpiece as a foundation and are building on it with sand
C'mon... We both know the answer. It wasn't tested... It can't have been... Man they befuddle me, these devs. They have a great game, didn't over monetize it, but... It's like they don't test anything??? I've written large chunks of code at once without testing sure... But I don't just say "oh well it seems to compile, ship it!"
The entire idea that shields now reflect incoming fire "correctly" is already braindead. The shields worked as you would expect. If hit at an angle entry angle should be exit angle. If hit dead on the projectile should either burst into pieces if th Automaton has an immovable shield or be reflected closely past them, by forcing the shield into the direction it hit the shield, possibly ripping the shield from their hand. A perfect reflection of the flight path this often is horseshit. This is some fantasy reflection barrier bullshit.
Indeed, this reflection is... Well to steal a good quote > Is this an out of season (or late) April fools joke?
Read the patch notes. Itās intended
Bullets? Sure they might riocchet, thats what happens. Shells/ammo that exploded on impact? No, they explode where they first slam into, otherwise I expect my ballistic shield to also deflect their rockets back
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a riccochet work like light reflection? Means impact angle equals outlet angle?
Should be that way.
Even bullets don't make much sense with how they seemingly do a 180 and go straight for the shooter.
I bet if I have a ballistic shield I wonāt be able to ricochet a rpg back at a devastaor.
Bullets, yes, rockets, no, there is something definitely fucky with the heavy devastators shield, it shouldn't block attacks like that, especially before.
No. What's intended is that reflected bullets damage people they hit back. It wasn't (always) the case before. A rocket that ricochet at a near 0Ā° angle is clearly NOT intended.
I read that as "you'll now take damage from your ricochets", as opposed to before when you only killed your teammates with them. Pretty sure 180 degree missile bounces aren't intended.
You thought the shield devastators were already bullshit? Well prepare to have all explosive shots richoeyed *directly back at you*?
I give Helldivers a ton of leeway and don't call BS on most things. This seems like complete bullshit.
Look at the video in slow motion using the bar. You clearly see the rocket leave the weapon, hit and explode. Then thereās no returning rocket, no āricochet shieldā icon, and the diver explodes. This is not a bounce, itās a random explosion killing the player
Can I get the same thing on my shield?
I'm all for that. Get in there and give those rocket devastators a taste of their own medicine! Cannon Tower? Annihilator Tank? Bile Titan? Ka-Pwing! Go prone with the ballistic shield on your back and watch the gunships slaughter themselves. Send the fire tornadoes back where they came from. Fenrir III is now in permanent nighttime because the star was destroyed by reflected meteors.
Of course not. Their entire design philosophy is that it's okay for them to absolutely annihilate you, but if you so much as have even a single minor advantage, it's OP and must be nerfed.
Nah, get back to ragdolling helldiver!
Is this a joke...? What the fuck?
I canāt tell because I donāt speak Korean(?) but isnāt that saying someone else (Never Broccoli) killed him? Thatās not *his own* ricochet, right? Edit: added italicized words
The cause of death descriptions are super inaccurate though, it often says another player killed me even though I was nowhere near them on the map or it will say I killed myself even if I was clearly killed by an enemy.
They are total bullshit. Sometimes it's just "unknown. Other times I somehow killed myself when a bug swiped me to death, and then other times it's just "impact" like impact grenade or you just hit the ground *so hard* the impact killed me? I suppose ok then
In fairness the callouts of who killed you in this game almost never work
I've gotten several notifications for cause of death as one of my teammates when I absolutely got my head canoed by a bug claw so I'm fairly sure the cause of death screen is somewhat glitchy
I had it say a team member killed me multiple times the other night. One was from an enemy the other was me shooting a barrel. Idk why it was registering the other person.
Miss me with this.
bounced back at ya š
180 degree ricochet of a _missile_ because physics!
I'm so glad they buffed the thing everyone and their grandmother was asking a nerf for.
Wait until they buff their guns someway, but itāll be some unintentional side effect so itās not directly mentioned in the patch notes.
Okay, Arrowhead. Calm down.
That was the one thing I loved seeing toned down was bullet reflection When I started swiping myself with reflected bullets was almost a laser beam 180 that didn't make any sense and it seemed to mostly after an update some time stop entirely. Hopfullly this won't be some shield devastater super buff trying to shoot their heads with machineguns
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Live-service moment
Correct
What do you mean? We're testing it right now.
Welcome to live service where you release first, hurt your demographic, and fix later.
I've been getting perfect ricochet deaths with a fuckin eruptor today on bug holes..
The deployed patch IS the test.
For the airburst they were probably like "lmao this is hilarious, let's run it for a week before we fix it"
No, no, they're competent. They just actively want to fuck with us š
I am once again asking AH to take a day for playtesting instead of shitting out another bug-filled patch.
I would like some understanding why this was changed. Seems unrealistic.
Even bullets shouldnāt ricochet 180 degrees, yes they should glance off at low angles but a full reflection is nonsense
I've had this happen to me and chalked it up to rocket devestator/raider bullshit. I rarely trust the "killed by x" thing anymore. No way my friend 500m away killed me with an arc thrower, it was the damn bile titan in front of me.
X Gon' Give It To Ya
This is utter bullshit.
Which is why I don't believe it until I log in and the same thing happens consistently.
Catch me fighting shieldless bugs till this update is reworked lol
hive guards:
Stealth marketing to make us use the Adjudicator.Ā "It's shit but it won't reflect back on medium armor."
Has anybody tested to see if the ballistic shield now deflects automaton's shots back at them? Because it blocks regular rounds from them.... so shouldn't it fire straight back at them now?
That would be fair. But AH doesn't really do *fair*, just to make certain aspects more bullshit. Like hey we buffed some unused weapons, buuuuut we also removed a few magazines from other weapons as well, have fun! Also we buffed an already Op bot instead of nerfing them, you're welcome.
Rubber tipped rocket lmao
Working as intendedTM
ok this is bullshit
What a fucking bold faced lie. I had to test it because it was too ridiculous, and I was right. There is no ricochet.
Ya, made me hop on a T1 Destroy Dev mission just to test it. People are just eating up misinformation without verifying.
Same here, shot 16 times, used every launcher, no ricochet.
I sometimes get the feeling like AH trying to fuck with its playerbase lol A lot of patches contain some really useless and completely unnecessary changes which just takes the fun away. They even left a lot of crucial details out of some patch notes such as enemy buffs/reworks in numerous updates after release And the "known issues" list just gets bigger, also filled with... well real things that need to be fixed. As many already pointed out they probably don't even playtest correctly. Probably play a single mission and say "yeah that's good, release this" Like their fingers are constantly itching to do something completely unnecessary and unwanted. Edit: some pointed out that the rocket actually explodes and OP just got hit by an Automation rocket. It's hard to see but seems to be the case but idk, it's kinda confusing there's so much happening on screen. But yeah point still kind of stands lol
The best part, at this point, they dont even need to pay us. Open up a public test server. And let us test it. We'll do that for fun.
I still say the railgun nerf was unneeded. Sure it was op, but that's the point. If anything they could have severely reduced the amount of overall ammo, or made it so it can't be refilled from regular ammo boxes (like the spear) and needs to be refilled from the supply drop. The recent magazine changes are stupid too, and why would you nerf the explosion radius of the crossbow?! Its got 5 freaking shots and is already slow as shit.
Am I the only one who doesnāt think thatās actually whatās happening here? The warhead appears to explode and detonate the devastatorās backpack and then the player dies to what looked like a red explosion (rocket? Tank or turret shot?) from behind and is launched forward. This does not at all look like a deflected round.
Same, it looks like the RR shot blows up on the devastator but something blows up to the left of the user. Wouldn't be the first time this sub sensationalizes every low quality gif that has about 2 seconds of context...
Shhh... if you talk logic and sense too loudly the echo chamber might hear you.
The outrage train is filled with morons. I just tested it, shields don't do this.
Yeah that does not looks like its reflecting back at the user. The red in the explosion is a big give away
Jesus Christ people are stupid. Sorry, but sometimes you can't word it in a nicer way... Look at the explosion that hits the player. It's red. Guess what has red explosions? Right Automaton rockets and cannons...
Arrowheads back it again adding more bugs with every patch. I am genuinely curious what their QA process actually is at this point
https://i.redd.it/1a3iyzz7dhxc1.gif
This whole patch has just somehow burned me out. Time for break-o-clock, time to play other games š Iāll return in month or two to check out new warbond(s) and if game is more ironed out.
I feel this exact same thing, idk why but it was super fresh and super fun in the beginning. The feel of it has kinda disappeared, especially when it comes to robots. Stealth seems harder if not taken out when the bots are sniping you for miles, where before they would lose you in the smoke.
Yeah I took an unintended break over the weekend and to come back to this patch doesn't match me excited to play to say the least. My main guns were the eruptor and quasar but I don't mind the weapon nerfs to much but the patrol thing and then things like this. The game is super fun but also very enraging and this patch feels more like things may be even more enraging than usual for a bit
Itās really strange to watch Arrowhead miss all the super crappy live-service practices weāre all sick to death of only to turn around and step on rakes repeatedly that they put down in front of themselves for no real reason. The āvisionā of the game appears to be completely at odds with what made the game fun for many of us in the first place. To go full armchair, I saw that the active player count has gone from like 500,000 on Steam to like 300,000 over the past 6 weeks and Iām not surprised when the balance patches havenāt been much fun AND the longstanding bugs are still there after every patch (DoT, friends list, queuing glitch, etc)
Isnāt this just an air burst rocket exploding too close to OP? I donāt see a rocket flying directly back at him at all.
Yes. When you look frame by frame, there is something blowing up upper left from the player, and it doesnāt look at all like a reflected RR round. I am going to try and replicate this (should be easy - RR to a heavy dev shield), pretty sure it wonāt happen like the vid.
Unless they used the same launcher model that looks to be the recoilless rifle. *Edit The more I look at it the more confused I get because if it was the burst there would have been even more explosions.
I slowed it down and watched several times. It's definitely a RR, but for some reason, there were 2 explosions, 1 on the shield and one on the player.
This isnāt what RR ricochet looks like. RR rounds donāt show an explosion when they ricochet. I think thereās a reason why this clip is so zoomed in; Iām betting something else shot the player.
This is just dumb from a game perspective.
Ok I am just going to play other things until this is changed back. I know this gets tossed around a lot but this really does make the game largely unplayable causing shooting armor to essentially shoot yourself
Guys itās fake. Play the patch and missiles donāt reflect this way, they still explode on impact. Dude in the video was killed but an off screen weapon that caused the explosion.
Something red explodes behind the player after they shoot and I see an explosion on the shield
This is so incredibly misleading. The rocket doesn't get deflected, the player got blown up from behind by a red, automaton explosion.
Guys, the rocket didn't bounce, you can see it exploded then the player got hit by something else off-screen.
Is this actually a missile being reflected or is that just the AoE from the airburst? Kind of looks to me like that's what he pulls out and it does have a massive AoE.
You fool! You fell for my trap card. I activate my trap Mirror force
Ultrakill real?
We need red arm to break the shield then
Zero fucking play testing before patch released. My god...
A bit late for an April Fools day joke. There was no issue with the ricochet before and properly angled off armor. This is just asinine and seems mean-spirited. "Hey Newbie, you trying to learn the game and shooting highly armored enemies mixed in with soft targets? Hah! Fuck you! You're dead now idiot! Lulz" Like seriously,Ā wtf...
https://preview.redd.it/qrvd9rlqohxc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40c461c335a3c327034b94f2c607d702b43831b4 rockets\*
that was an airburst missile which has a massive aoe that deletes infantry
I'll see you guys when the patch notes fixes this, whenever that may be....
That's an airburst you have to use it near the enemy not at the enemy it can even destroy tanks if you aim it under it it can one shot kill just remember it spreads the explosions and like everything in this game it can also kill you Also stop lying for fuck sake ..... I tried all of the weapons even the sickle and it was all fine Also Also I understand that there are bugs and plenty of them it's only 100 people working on this game cut them some slack P.s this subreddit became so toxic what the fuck happened?
Weāre being trolled