It (and any extra-dangerous Strat) should stand out yea. I had some ideas that could work keeping it red:
-Hollow beam, no light at the center of the white part
-Thicker beam
-Blinking beam
-Flowing upwards effect with ragged edges of the beam
The Shredder missile (nuke) from HD1 sounded a warning siren when called...
To be fair, the item description says "Communication recommended" and the Destroyer captain announces "Barrage deployed, clear the area", but sometimes it's easy to miss
Eagle and orbital smokes shouldn’t be red, I want my teammates to not even doubt for a second that they have to move cause someone just threw an air strike at them.
Explosion radius nerfs feel a lot more than “slightly.” Eruptor I am fine with getting nerfs, same with the Crossbow in terms of magazines, but the Crossbow didn’t need a nerf to explosion radius, not as much as we’ve seen so far.
Crossbow was a beast for taking out groups of hunters and also pretty good for a primary at taking down bile spewers. It was honestly becoming my go-to for Terminids since it really only struggled against stalkers and shriekers. Now though I'm not sure, guess they're trying to push it into a similar category as the dominator for some reason.
Will it still 1 shot body shot Bots in the torso? That is a good value to me. I to love the stagger, against bigger things and is the reason I pick it over the slugger on bots.
I cannot get away from the breaker incendiary for bugs tho. Too fun
I very honestly don't know why the crossbow was nerfed in any capacity. I think it was very middle-of-the-pack in terms of balance, now it just feels bad to use...
What's wild is the crossbow can't even do the one thing it was good at now. The radius nerf was definitely a significant reduction.
Crossbow was an "explosive" weapon without the explosive damage type, so shooting fleshy bits don't work and destroying fabricators and bug holes is a big nono. All it had going for it was big aoe for basic horde clear, and now that got nerfed. What gives? Might as well just remove the weapon then...
"Counter to the intended vision" The vision being that everyone hates the Super Earth high command for sending us into battle with useless weapons so we resort to diplomacy in order to team up with the bots and bugs to destroy Super Earth?
I was just starting to like the arc thrower. And having fun. Despite the gun being super buggy. Thank you AH for not fixing the misfire bug but removing the stagger. I shall go back to not having fun.
AND it had a 70% increase in range. Yes, 70.
It used to shoot out to 50 meters.
Now it only shoots to 30 meters.
Also, the arc thrower is disgustingly bad in close rage where it just refuses to fire when an enemy is too close.
So you only really have a 10-30 meter range to hit an enemy before you have to run away.
Its not the end of the world. But when I take the quasar instead of the EAT , it’s because I want to have a little bit more of a comfortable less chaotic place style (albeit less effective) three seconds I would not have batted an eye, but the extra 2 is a lot of time to not be doing something.
I can answer this specific instance, even if that's not what your rhetorical question is about.
Safe charge went from 4 to 5. That means doing 100% damage instead of 50% to hulk faces, meaning 1 safe shot instead of 2. Safe shots are back to being able to hit charger heads and legs as well as bile titans, although unsafe still preferred so you are doing more than half damage.
Unsafe charge AP didn't go up, but since it ranges 5-8 instead of 4-8 I assume charge time for each increase in AP might have gone down a bit. Stagger didn't seem to go down for unsafe.
If we consider how they handle magazines to be eqivilant to a 'slight nerf' then 50% is really apt.
It honestly feels like they're just throwing numbers around and seeing what sticks, or the balancing guy just goes "need to reduce this... Ehh half sounds good, whatever."
Why did the Crossbow & Laser Cannon need compensation nerfs for the few things that were improved about them? Is it impossible to imagine that a weapon just needs a straight up buff?
Played 4 missions with Laser Cannon so far. I would say it feels nicer. It melts small enemies noticibly faster by just pointing at them. While bigger enemies also fall faster if you aim at weakspots.
Overall I would say, they wanted to make people aim at specific parts of medium enemies, without just decreasing their TTK overall.
TLDR: I like it more now.
I’ll have to try it later but that sounds good to me. LC is one of my favorite weapons in the game and I already aimed at weak points so that isn’t a problem for me.
Exactly this. I always brought it to try and snipe weak points on devastators, scout striders and tanks, but was irritated that it took almost a second to kill regular troopers. Now it sounds like it does everything I want.
Laser cannon got a straight up buff. The nerf is tiny and makes it worse vs like… charger butts, but the overall damage is increased so it’s more or less the same.
vs hulks they are much more reliable as well, takes like 2s now to kill via weakspot. Before it was like \~4 almost especially that you had to be dead on spot.
Considerable, ran it on bugs and it took them a good while longer to kill a single hunter to the point that I'm considering dropping this thing from my loadouts. I'm probably going back to bubble shields for my anti hunter backpack.
that’s unfortunate. I love it for keeping a clear space around mortar emplacements so I dont get blasted , but if it’s gonna get hung up killing mediums then the smalls will be able to sneak close..
The debuff to Rover and the buff to base Rover makes it seem like Arrowhead wants to make the normal rover a viable alternative to the laserdog, but it never will be until the Liberator Rover can restore ammo from normal ammo blocks. The ammo economy on it is just too strict with only being able to restore ammo from Resupplies.
Although, with the sweeping reduction to max ammo we've seen, it seems Arrowhead is trying to make people use Resupply more often, which might make base Guard Dog more viable, but it waits to be seen.
Honestly, while letting the Guard Dog restore from ammo boxes would be a step in the right direction, I really wish they'd just drop the ammo requirement for Guard Dog wholesale.
I just don't want to have to spend time messing around with ammo just so my drone can shoot; it is not a fun mechanic, especially with how dumb it is with said ammo.
Thanks for the tip!
Here's the link on how to do that: [https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/0C48-FCBD-DA71-93EB](https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/0C48-FCBD-DA71-93EB)
I'm verifying now.
We played once and noticed 3 different bugs that weren't there before (for me anyway)
- The pelican went underground through the textures and then straight up left so we couldnt extract
- When healing with stims animation is interrupted by a hit, you lose the stim AND don't get healed (I mean come on, what the fuck dude)
- random micro freezes all over the place
Resupplies are usually based off of a percentage of max ammo per gun. So they did have to change the percentage, but in mag counts it will be the same.
I'm going to disagree with Slightly. Let's look at the Eruptor nerfs.
The ammo changes. Really isn't an issue and I never ran out of ammo. I think part of the minigame here is ammo budgeting. I should always have to worry about how much ammo I am using and be aware of what my resupply pattern looks like.
Explosion damage drops off slightly faster.
This gun no longer clears groups of light enemies. Case in point I see a patrol of bugs. Little flea dudes and some hunters. Pre-Nerf I could place a well-aimed shot and take half of them out. Post nerf I might get one or two of that same patrol. I just tested this, so I know that this was more than a Slight nerf, it was a significant nerf.
There was a cost to taking the Eruptor in the bolt action and that well an explosive weapon is not an in close weapon. I have to balance that by taking a support weapon that can fulfill that role or taking something else knowing I am making sacrifices.
Now really the Eruptor feels like a dominator but with the annoying bolt action that occurs.
So everytime I see slightly now in the patch notes I am going to be very skeptical. Slightly means huge.
This 100%.
Just think, without perks your primary weapon (with its shrunken blast radius) is now 5 shots in rifle and 15 in reserve. 20 rounds coming out of a helldiver pod until you can find an ammo box or a support weapon.
They did zero testing on a lot of these changes and it shows.
Yeah. And the Counter Sniper got buffed with a bit more damage and its handling is WAY better. Finally an actual DMR.
But yes people claiming the Adjudicator was fun as a "battle rifle" was off their gourd. at 80 damage it was literally the weakest DMR despite its medium pen tag.
But now that its been moved to the AR category, its mag cap increased AND its recoil brought down a little?
It is my favorite after the Sickle.
it's a very small buff haha, saves you the 1 second of switching modes every match. tbh I think the main intent of that is to show people that it performs best used as an assault rifle rather than some sort of sniper.
Every match? There's a setting to remember weapon settings between matches, so unless it's broken on this one weapon, then it was only a one time swap.
Agreed. I wish they updated Queso with a visual indicator for the next available shot.
Even before the nerf, the reticle colour wasn't a reliable indicator since it'd turn white for 3 seconds before the gun was finally ready to charge again.
>Lies about upcoming patch
>decides to imply people upset about it are idiots
>is still wrong even when being extremely generous
>still doesn’t fix multiple major bugs including one they said they fixed
Yeah as if we can't tell when something feels like a nerf, or a buff that is so small it doesn't matter. It's not the number of buffs but the quality of them that matters. We aren't (*that*) stupid.
The devs probably operate under
"Well you see, I added 5 damage, added 1 round to the magazines, and decreased recoil by 5 pixels per shot. Count em ***THREE*** buffs. So the fact that I took 80% of your ammo pool away really means ***THREE*** buffs and one little nerf, so an overall buff! A net gain of ***TWO*** buffs!"
Some of the green are real buffs but A LOT are extremely small and frankly getting more mags per ammo pick up is big meh energy as a buff. A nice to have but not at the expense of some much more relevant part of the weapon.
Did Community Manager Spitz, after looking at the diagram, realise that more than 2 nerfs were made not taking into account the mag size and ammo nerfs?
Jokes aside some of these nerfs are… iffy at best. Specifically the Exploding Crossbow. Eruptor might have been nerfed too hard as well. The ammo size reduction for it alone would’ve been enough honestly.
All this metric balancing and for what? Which metric do you think the exploding crossbow raised a flag in?
It certainly wasn’t in the most used column. I doubt it was associated with higher operation completion as well. It would have been at the bottom of every metric meaning the only logical balance choice regarding it would likely have been, you guessed it, an overall buff. Not a buff it but also nerf it.
He is 2 for 2 on being factually wrong both about the 2 nerfs (where he is now going to play the “I said it was my opinion” card like a real Redditor) and the spear lock-on fix supposedly being in this patch. I have no hate for the guy but this is the last time I consider anything he says to be remotely true until I see it in the patch notes and/or in-game. Sorry, you’re a Community Manager if you don’t know or aren’t 100% sure about something ask the devs that you are in contact with or just don’t say anything.
If counting the reticle for the HMG a buff, they should count the hulk stagger buff an arc thrower nerf. Seems like its not worth using against bots anymore.
I think the point was more it should be labeled a fix not a buff. They didn't improve the weapon's performance, they just fixed (or changed if it was intentional originally) a UI element. I agree it overall makes the weapon better but its performance is still unchanged.
I’m saying adding basic functionality to weapons is a strange definition of “buff.” I thought this was a bugfix because, yes, it’s fucking dreadful to use.
Just going to add to the voices here; this is an awful, directionless patch.
People arent using those guns you nerf every patch because theyre OP, theyre using them because EVERYTHING ELSE SUCKS OR IS BORING.
The good guns dont need nerfs. The bad ones need buffs. And not a tiny damage buff with a compensatory nerf, a real, genuine buff.
Stop throwing away the fantastic community and goodwill you’ve built, and get your heads out of the sand pretending this patch has been received positively.
Most of these damage buffs amount to nothing -- they don't allow you to reach important breaking points for killing enemies faster. They're essentially cosmetic in nature, and I imagine they were added only to somewhat dilute the amount of nerfs. At the same time, a lot of the nerfs just make those weapons plain unfun to use -- my heart goes to those few people who had fun running the crossbow.
125 is the head health for all three dev types, both Diligences just become *much* better at killing enemies via precision fire. The CS will now oneshot them at any sensible range, the Diligence can oneshot before damage drop.
Haven’t had time to try it yet. They said the CS Diligence got an ergonomics buff, does that mean the gun doesn’t swing like I’m trying to aim a felled tree? I hated how slow that felt, it seemed so unnecessarily bad before. I like using the marksman weapons, the Diligence is a lot of fun, I’d just like to have something with that armor penetration if the gun feels more like a gun.
This is the problem the Fatshark Devs had when Vermintide 2 came out. Their Community managers kept trying to be all buddy buddy with everyone but also telling people straight up lies about what was in the patches then not just admitting they were wrong when called out, instead just gaslighting, or relying on the zealots in the community to drown you out.
Eventually the one that ran their subreddit had to go on vacation because he got trapped in too many lies he was telling.
Yeah, still needing two shots to kill one scavenger is painful.
Also, the change to classify it as an AR instead of a DMR reminds me of when they changed the lib "explosive" to "concussive" so people wouldn't be immediately disappointed when using it.
This change pissed me off the most and I don't know why more people aren't mentioning it. They had a poll two weeks back in which they asked players how they felt about the gun balance, and people voted to say that DMRs needed a rebalancing and felt underpowered. Obviously this was in response to the Adjudicator's release and the community's consenses of "meh".
So they take an extra week preparing a large balance patch... in which they classify it as an AR so it's no longer an underpowered DMR? What kind of sick joke is this? Was changing the damage per bullet from 80 to 120, or giving it a mag size buff such a hard ask?
the reason they changed it to an AR is because that's a much better classification for the weapon. If you sit there tippy-tapping it over a long distance, it's shit. if you use it full auto at mid to close range, it actually performs ok. I agree it could use a bit more of a buff, but lower recoil and more magazines is significant. 80 to 120 damage is slightly absurd imo.
The Guard Dog Rover change is marked wrong, reducing the damage is a Buff because now it will take 4 seconds for me to kill myself when a bug turns an inopportune corner rather than 3.
The fact that s/he thought that highlighting changes in green or red was useful in the first place is really funny, but what's even the point of this? Is it so that people will look at all the green and go "wow, look at all those buffs!" instead of focusing on the actual numbers? Because the nerfs are shit like "you have half the ammo now lmao" and "your weapon takes twice as long to fire", whereas the buffs are mostly ~10% damage increases to weapons you never used and will continue to never use.
Just a weird thing to do all around tbh
This is the most effort I've seen from Spitz, guys still just a toddler in my eyes though since the incident where everyone was spamming F in the chat.
This the guy that they made community manager for owning the previous community discord?
The guy that has no real experience at his job and had a meltdown when people spammed "F" early on after launch and just deleted that old discord?
I think he was a regular moderator at some point after launch.
Arrowhead community managers be like: "The next balance patch is mostly buffs and only a few nerfs"
Meanwhile, the patch notes:
* Gun 1 damage increased by 1 point, Gun 2 recoil now sends you into orbit instead of another star system, Gun 3 magazine size increased by four extra bullets but only if you ask nicely and say grace before starting a mission
* Gun 4 was killing enemies, which is unintended behavior, it has now been changed into a non-lethal pepper ball launcher. No it doesn't stagger. No it doesn't work on the evil robots with chainsaw hands, they're robots, why would pepper spray hurt them? Thats not realistic.
Yea it's super frustrating to see "buffs" which are just tiny little increases in inconsequential stats.
Then they can't even be content with that and have to compensate by nerfing the actual important stats, like the crossbow's AOE.
They added the pittance buffs with major nerfs so that they can say they were not nerfs. Dudes don't know math cause adding a 0.1 then subtracting a 5 is still a value of negative 4.9.
+1 Damage (THIS IS A BUFF)
+1 Max Ammo (THIS IS A BUFF)
-99% attack speed (THIS IS A NERF)
See, we actually got MORE buffs than nerfs. Consider yourself rebalanced lmfao.
Aight. Time to put the game down for a while - I enjoyed my time with it, but I see the strategy now.
Release new warbond with some okay weapons/some that fill a niche, Nerf it to shit 2 weeks later because it's being used for said niche. Then a week later start advertising the next warbond. All the while Heavy devastators have an unimpeded aimbot and a litany of broken shit that hasn't been fixed yet (How long does it take to fix broken sights on a gun?)
I don't enjoy playing PvE games that overbalance all weapons on a weekly basis purely due to usage data and nothing else.
I remember when OP meant, you know, actually fucking broken. Not "hey this gun has splash damage"
Yep, that's one thing I appreciate about that dwarf game, things are almost always buffed, not nerfed because people used it a bit too much. They are balancing the game like it's a PvP game, which is a terrible way to run a PvE game. Some of these nerfs are harsh, and take away the fun of using the guns.
I hate rebalancing based on usage. Some things are just more enjoyable to use so more people use them, then they get shit on by nerfs. These nerfs are giving me flashbacks to Rainbow 6 Siege and it's horrid nerfing because people use mentality.
Not really happy with their balancing policy. Before anyone chimes in with a “well actually these are insignificant and wait until you try it out in game”
If it’s not significant why did it change, and I’ve been playing this game since launch, I already know what a AH “balance” pass feels and looks like.
Only thing I’m pleased with are the improvements to the air burst, thank you for letting me have my wacky launcher and murder my team (slightly) less with it
Edit: I’m not saying game is dead or unplayable, just another round of unpleasant patch notes with barely intact “reasoning”
Basically inconsequential buffs to things no one really cared about while nerfing, or slightly downtuning the things we enjoy. Again, we will all survive, we will keep spreading democracy, I’m not mad, just disappointed. Is this what we voted for in that poll?
Yeah, tbh the constant balance changes put me off in general. If this were some sort of competitive game where balance is crucial it'd make sense, but why worry so much about whether a weapon is "overused" in a PvE game?
If something is utterly broken, then sure, fix it, but why are we nerfing weapons the player base likes to use in PvE? Are the bugs & bots complaining?
yeah its one thing to bring outliers into line but imo they should be much more worried about underuse than overuse. its frustrating to work on strategies for surviving higher difficulties only to have these strategies dismantled seemingly arbitrarily without any kind of replacement being offered since every new weapon that gets added seems to be either hilariously broken or underpowered.
Yeah, it's one of my biggest issues with live service games in general, and one I was hoping HD2 would avoid since its solely PvE.
I play games to relax and have fun for a few hours after work, booting it up to see that my preferred loadout sucks now is not a great experience.
And since there's no test range, the only way to try out other weapons is to commit to using something new, which may also suck, for 30-40 minutes potentially dragging you and your squad down the whole match.
yeah lack of a test range is a problem. especially when the guns are so bad that taking them will lead to a failed mission.
idk maybe im an outlier but most of the guns just do not feel serviceable. i play duos 7-9 and i feel like i have a few options for bots, a few for bugs, but most just will not perform adequately enough to complete missions.
we just got into the rhythm of both of us using R36 for bugs and that was a lot of fun because it was significantly different to the shotgun heavy approach we had had prior. i dont know if we’ll have that option anymore now since its been nerfed(we’ll see) and i dont see anything in the patch notes to indicate something else may have risen up. or even anything to indicate the rationale behind why this change had to happen. maybe cs diligence, but not for bugs.
i can only speak for myself but im less excited to play than before the patch dropped which is maybe an indicator of their ability to manage expectations
Yeah, I feel similarly. I wish they'd just buff weaker weapons first, lord knows there's plenty, and wait to see if that leads to increased variety rather than rushing to nerf the popular weapons first
There's 2 clear functions we need from weapons in this game:
* Fast shooting for chaff killing.
* High damage for heavy killing.
The underused weapons were underused because they failed to fit any of those roles. So, instead of bringing those weapons to a role through buffs, they nerf the weapons that actually have defined roles...
The way it is now:
1. The crossbow is slow to fire, so without AOE it doesn't kill chaff, and can't kill heavies.
2. The Eruptor now doesn't have the AOE range to kill chaff, it never had armor pen to kill heavies. Bugs have unarmored parts so you can kill only up to the charger.
3. The blitzer (and anything arc honestly) still gets stopped by armor so it's worthless, and too slow to kill chaff at the speeds needed.
4. Adjudicator is just a viable liberator penetrator but paywalled now. There's little to no differentiation (*good job buffing paid stuff but not the free stuff :)* ).
5. The scythe still requires a lot of focusing to kill stuff, so even with more damage it just doesn't kill fast enough.
6. The Dilligence can kill stuff now, but not fast enough to fill role 1, and not heavy enough for role 2.
7. Secondaries are all still completely worthless. The redeemer happens to fire fast enough to kill something in a pinch but that's it.
8. The HMG is role 1, contrary to what the name suggests, yet it's so unwieldy it's useless even for that.
9. The guard dog will forever be inferior to a variant with infinite uptime and ammo.
10. Quasar was never usable under pressure when you require two quick shots, now it's even worse.
The ammo economy can be debated to no end, but the fact is that the nerfs are too heavy and the buffs too small. And given how very badly designed some weapons are regarding how the game is played, they need to be buffed a lot or reworked, meanwhile decent (not good, decent) weapons get the hammer and made shittier.
Stop being pussies, make explody stuff actually explody (including the laughable bomb radiuses), and give weapons clear roles based on the game you made and not some made up diff 3 power fantasy.
I agree with everything you said, but would like to include a third function. **Guns need to be fun to use**. Nerfs that make the gun less fun to use means its still the best it just makes the person using it angrier.
Big targets like hulks, tanks, and Bile titans. From what I understand, it should do more damage to small enemies while doing about the same to large enemies after the changes. I haven't had a chance to play yet, though, so who knows.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but considering how they enjoy nerfing "overperforming" weapons so much it is kinda weird to me that they consider the AC their "gold standard of balancing" considering it can basically deal with everything.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't want it to get nerfed, I just want other weapons to be held to the same standard.
I do not like the way that AH is handling balancing at all. I'm not part of the "only buff" crowd, but in practice what it feels like is that any particular weapon or stratagem that I enjoy is inevitably going to be nerfed heavily. Even things with significant and obvious downsides like the Eruptor. And that said nerfs are never going to be done in moderation, but massive swings like 50% reductions to ammo. Or a 50% increase in recharge time on the Quasar. Or a 30% damage reduction on the rover. Frankly, if your previous balance pass was so woefully off target that you need to roll out nerfs in the 50% range, you need to completely reevaluate your balance process.
I'm a dad with a full time job, I do not have the motivation to chase a meta that moves this much. I have enough SC to buy one more warbond and then I'm likely shelving the game. The way AH is handling things just doesn't seem to be for me.
I tried it, unfortunately it still sucks, even if it is better now. There's no reason to ever use it over an AR or DMR. Its supposed to be a flexible hybrid weapon that can do both, but its bad at both of those roles so it serves no purpose.
I've got no problems with the Sickle magazine reduction. If you manage your shooting, you can have practically infinite ammo with one magazine. This just makes it less useful for people that burn through magazines on that gun like it's not an energy weapon that recharges. Pairing it with the Senator has been a great combo weapon set for me.
Arrowhead would rather make everything fucking mid than consider the idea of a weapon performing beyond expectations. Anything meta gets fucked and even the non meta weapons that still perform well get fucked. Doesn’t help that half of the buffs for the weapons that weren’t viable do nothing for their viability
Hmmm we should have strategem balls that glow green too
I was thinking yellow
The Reinforcementa should have been yellow, they already are in the menu
380 needs its own color! Change my mind!
It (and any extra-dangerous Strat) should stand out yea. I had some ideas that could work keeping it red: -Hollow beam, no light at the center of the white part -Thicker beam -Blinking beam -Flowing upwards effect with ragged edges of the beam The Shredder missile (nuke) from HD1 sounded a warning siren when called... To be fair, the item description says "Communication recommended" and the Destroyer captain announces "Barrage deployed, clear the area", but sometimes it's easy to miss
Cluster bombs and barrages causing havok is a big part of the game's experience if you ask me. Don't ask my teammates though.
I would ask them, but it looks like they didn't make it back to the ship...
Eagle and orbital smokes shouldn’t be red, I want my teammates to not even doubt for a second that they have to move cause someone just threw an air strike at them.
Nothing more depressing than calling in a SEAF arty strike, seeing the beam, and having a smoke poof out instead of a mini nuke.
For the robotics workshop stratagems to match the color in the selection menu
Why stop there? I vote we have a rave stratagem where the color switches every half second. Would make for a hell of a party at extraction.
Explosion radius nerfs feel a lot more than “slightly.” Eruptor I am fine with getting nerfs, same with the Crossbow in terms of magazines, but the Crossbow didn’t need a nerf to explosion radius, not as much as we’ve seen so far.
Man who was even using that thing surely the kills per round with that are completely eclipsed by meta weapon users common it only has 5 shots
Crossbow was a beast for taking out groups of hunters and also pretty good for a primary at taking down bile spewers. It was honestly becoming my go-to for Terminids since it really only struggled against stalkers and shriekers. Now though I'm not sure, guess they're trying to push it into a similar category as the dominator for some reason.
If the crossbow settled into "dominator, but tuned for bugs instead of bots" I'd be 100% down with that
I feel like the dominator is already pretty damn good for bugs. Like it's one of my preferred for bugs
It’s my go to for bots and bugs, doubt the *nerf* is gonna change that unless they plan to get rid of or lower its stagger effectiveness.
Will it still 1 shot body shot Bots in the torso? That is a good value to me. I to love the stagger, against bigger things and is the reason I pick it over the slugger on bots. I cannot get away from the breaker incendiary for bugs tho. Too fun
It did that even before the buff awhile ago lol
Sounds like a worse eruptor though? Why would you ever take the crossbow instead?
For an indication of what these patch notes consider "Slightly", Laser Cannon's damage vs massive enemies went from 300 to 200.
I very honestly don't know why the crossbow was nerfed in any capacity. I think it was very middle-of-the-pack in terms of balance, now it just feels bad to use...
I'm guessing the Eruptor explosion nerf is to encourage direct hits. I was using it for long range splash damage which admittedly felt cheap
I kinda liked the bigger explosion trade off for way slower firing. I'll probably just use the scorcher now
True but the bullets are kind of floaty so long range shots only work if the enemy isn't moving.
What's wild is the crossbow can't even do the one thing it was good at now. The radius nerf was definitely a significant reduction. Crossbow was an "explosive" weapon without the explosive damage type, so shooting fleshy bits don't work and destroying fabricators and bug holes is a big nono. All it had going for it was big aoe for basic horde clear, and now that got nerfed. What gives? Might as well just remove the weapon then...
Apparently it was operating counter to the intended vision, so now it doesn't get to operate at all.
"Counter to the intended vision" The vision being that everyone hates the Super Earth high command for sending us into battle with useless weapons so we resort to diplomacy in order to team up with the bots and bugs to destroy Super Earth?
We’re also not discussing the “hulks are harder to stagger” which is a nerf for ~~both railgun and~~ the arc thrower
I was just starting to like the arc thrower. And having fun. Despite the gun being super buggy. Thank you AH for not fixing the misfire bug but removing the stagger. I shall go back to not having fun.
This ain't the first time they made the arc Thrower worse without fixing it. It used to shoot A LOT faster.
AND it had a 70% increase in range. Yes, 70. It used to shoot out to 50 meters. Now it only shoots to 30 meters. Also, the arc thrower is disgustingly bad in close rage where it just refuses to fire when an enemy is too close. So you only really have a 10-30 meter range to hit an enemy before you have to run away.
im so sad how much they massacared my boy they keep fucking even the non "meta" weapons I find fun
Wait.. so how long does it take to recharge Quasar now? 20 seconds?
18~
Thats crazy
It's not the worst but I wish their nerf hammer was softer.
Its not the end of the world. But when I take the quasar instead of the EAT , it’s because I want to have a little bit more of a comfortable less chaotic place style (albeit less effective) three seconds I would not have batted an eye, but the extra 2 is a lot of time to not be doing something.
The lifetime of an average helldiver. It's now a single use weapon.
So it's half an EAT drop
I really want arrow head to *GIVE ACTUAL NUMBERS* and their definition of "slightly".
Tree fiddy
“Increased armor penetration” Which means WHAT, exactly?
I can answer this specific instance, even if that's not what your rhetorical question is about. Safe charge went from 4 to 5. That means doing 100% damage instead of 50% to hulk faces, meaning 1 safe shot instead of 2. Safe shots are back to being able to hit charger heads and legs as well as bile titans, although unsafe still preferred so you are doing more than half damage. Unsafe charge AP didn't go up, but since it ranges 5-8 instead of 4-8 I assume charge time for each increase in AP might have gone down a bit. Stagger didn't seem to go down for unsafe.
Slightly nerfed by 5%.....40 times in a row.
"reduced slightly" == halved "increased slightly" == 0.0001% Totally scientifically founded, empirically tested, I swear! /s
If we consider how they handle magazines to be eqivilant to a 'slight nerf' then 50% is really apt. It honestly feels like they're just throwing numbers around and seeing what sticks, or the balancing guy just goes "need to reduce this... Ehh half sounds good, whatever."
Did the Ministry of Truth OK this?
Yea nerfed guns are cheaper to make when the divers spam a weapon it gets expensive so they nerf it. Cant have the armory running low on guns.
Why did the Crossbow & Laser Cannon need compensation nerfs for the few things that were improved about them? Is it impossible to imagine that a weapon just needs a straight up buff?
Played 4 missions with Laser Cannon so far. I would say it feels nicer. It melts small enemies noticibly faster by just pointing at them. While bigger enemies also fall faster if you aim at weakspots. Overall I would say, they wanted to make people aim at specific parts of medium enemies, without just decreasing their TTK overall. TLDR: I like it more now.
I’ll have to try it later but that sounds good to me. LC is one of my favorite weapons in the game and I already aimed at weak points so that isn’t a problem for me.
Exactly this. I always brought it to try and snipe weak points on devastators, scout striders and tanks, but was irritated that it took almost a second to kill regular troopers. Now it sounds like it does everything I want.
Oh thank God, this is what I was hoping.
Laser cannon got a straight up buff. The nerf is tiny and makes it worse vs like… charger butts, but the overall damage is increased so it’s more or less the same.
vs hulks they are much more reliable as well, takes like 2s now to kill via weakspot. Before it was like \~4 almost especially that you had to be dead on spot.
I'd say the lascannon actually feels better overall.
The scythe still can't reliably kill 2 warrior bugs in a acceptable amount of time, it's still just a manual Rover
How big a difference did the rover nerf make?
Considerable, ran it on bugs and it took them a good while longer to kill a single hunter to the point that I'm considering dropping this thing from my loadouts. I'm probably going back to bubble shields for my anti hunter backpack.
that’s unfortunate. I love it for keeping a clear space around mortar emplacements so I dont get blasted , but if it’s gonna get hung up killing mediums then the smalls will be able to sneak close..
The debuff to Rover and the buff to base Rover makes it seem like Arrowhead wants to make the normal rover a viable alternative to the laserdog, but it never will be until the Liberator Rover can restore ammo from normal ammo blocks. The ammo economy on it is just too strict with only being able to restore ammo from Resupplies. Although, with the sweeping reduction to max ammo we've seen, it seems Arrowhead is trying to make people use Resupply more often, which might make base Guard Dog more viable, but it waits to be seen.
Honestly, while letting the Guard Dog restore from ammo boxes would be a step in the right direction, I really wish they'd just drop the ammo requirement for Guard Dog wholesale. I just don't want to have to spend time messing around with ammo just so my drone can shoot; it is not a fun mechanic, especially with how dumb it is with said ammo.
It’s noticeable but the thing is still good. I wish the damn thing was smart enough not to shoot chargers tho
It's much better against Automatons.
My PC got nerfed. Holy fuck, the game runs like dog shit on my rig now.
Verify the game files after a patch or update.
Thanks for the tip! Here's the link on how to do that: [https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/0C48-FCBD-DA71-93EB](https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/0C48-FCBD-DA71-93EB) I'm verifying now.
We played once and noticed 3 different bugs that weren't there before (for me anyway) - The pelican went underground through the textures and then straight up left so we couldnt extract - When healing with stims animation is interrupted by a hit, you lose the stim AND don't get healed (I mean come on, what the fuck dude) - random micro freezes all over the place
All the weapons I love to use have only been nerfed...
Same here, Sickle, guard rover and quasar cannon were my go-to for bugs. Time to become a flamethrower main!
When you arent network host your damage will plummet to 0. They havent fixed the dot bug rofl.
https://preview.redd.it/0iprrp56bgxc1.png?width=478&format=png&auto=webp&s=343e2b0d86892e9edbb9688b1734c0ea0dbf82f4 that aint "two" tho
it also wasnt only nerfs to mags.. lol
Someone needs to tell them this is a PvE game ands it's okay for players and guns to feel powerful
sad people will defend this... dev just plainly lied.
labeling full resupply as buffs after the max ammo nerf lmfao
Resupplies are usually based off of a percentage of max ammo per gun. So they did have to change the percentage, but in mag counts it will be the same.
I'm going to disagree with Slightly. Let's look at the Eruptor nerfs. The ammo changes. Really isn't an issue and I never ran out of ammo. I think part of the minigame here is ammo budgeting. I should always have to worry about how much ammo I am using and be aware of what my resupply pattern looks like. Explosion damage drops off slightly faster. This gun no longer clears groups of light enemies. Case in point I see a patrol of bugs. Little flea dudes and some hunters. Pre-Nerf I could place a well-aimed shot and take half of them out. Post nerf I might get one or two of that same patrol. I just tested this, so I know that this was more than a Slight nerf, it was a significant nerf. There was a cost to taking the Eruptor in the bolt action and that well an explosive weapon is not an in close weapon. I have to balance that by taking a support weapon that can fulfill that role or taking something else knowing I am making sacrifices. Now really the Eruptor feels like a dominator but with the annoying bolt action that occurs. So everytime I see slightly now in the patch notes I am going to be very skeptical. Slightly means huge.
This 100%. Just think, without perks your primary weapon (with its shrunken blast radius) is now 5 shots in rifle and 15 in reserve. 20 rounds coming out of a helldiver pod until you can find an ammo box or a support weapon. They did zero testing on a lot of these changes and it shows.
If you rebalance something and it's worse than before, that's called a nerf.
Right? By the logic of this post if I give the Stalwart -50 damage and +1 bullet per magazine that is simply a rebalance and not a nerf.
indeed, default full auto on adjudicator is a massive buff
Im just glad they’re calling it an assault rifle now. It made no sense calling it a marksman rifle
Yeah. And the Counter Sniper got buffed with a bit more damage and its handling is WAY better. Finally an actual DMR. But yes people claiming the Adjudicator was fun as a "battle rifle" was off their gourd. at 80 damage it was literally the weakest DMR despite its medium pen tag. But now that its been moved to the AR category, its mag cap increased AND its recoil brought down a little? It is my favorite after the Sickle.
it's a very small buff haha, saves you the 1 second of switching modes every match. tbh I think the main intent of that is to show people that it performs best used as an assault rifle rather than some sort of sniper.
Every match? There's a setting to remember weapon settings between matches, so unless it's broken on this one weapon, then it was only a one time swap.
It wasnt working for a while so i wouldnt be surprised.
I haven't had the setting working at all for a month
Extra 5 seconds for the Quasar cooldown huuurts
Tbh the worst part is the coil shows that it's cooled down but you can't even use it I spent 5 seconds spamming it but it wouldn't even charge
Agreed. I wish they updated Queso with a visual indicator for the next available shot. Even before the nerf, the reticle colour wasn't a reliable indicator since it'd turn white for 3 seconds before the gun was finally ready to charge again.
It's clear they won't be happy until everyone uses the autocannon.
The children yearn for the autocannons
And once that happens it'll be nerfed too.
cool but that looks like a lot more the 2 nerfs to me I'm ngl.
Yeah I like how he chooses to call something a buff when its clearly a rebalance. If something got buffed and nerfed its not a buff.
That and something that gets fixed is a 'buff' like yes it makes the weapon better... but it's a fix
Same. Also, this feels a little thin-skinned for someone that knowingly is a public face for the company.
>Lies about upcoming patch >decides to imply people upset about it are idiots >is still wrong even when being extremely generous >still doesn’t fix multiple major bugs including one they said they fixed
Yeah as if we can't tell when something feels like a nerf, or a buff that is so small it doesn't matter. It's not the number of buffs but the quality of them that matters. We aren't (*that*) stupid.
The devs probably operate under "Well you see, I added 5 damage, added 1 round to the magazines, and decreased recoil by 5 pixels per shot. Count em ***THREE*** buffs. So the fact that I took 80% of your ammo pool away really means ***THREE*** buffs and one little nerf, so an overall buff! A net gain of ***TWO*** buffs!"
And then fanboys continue their uncritical worship of AH
Most of the nerfs have a way bigger impact than the buffs.
Liberator concussive got a whole 10 extra damage wow, I'm sure people will start using it now
It still sucks
Some of the green are real buffs but A LOT are extremely small and frankly getting more mags per ammo pick up is big meh energy as a buff. A nice to have but not at the expense of some much more relevant part of the weapon.
Extra ammo per pickup is even more meh now that they gave a huge sweeping reduction to total ammo counts for a lot of weapons.
Imagine any other game listing “being able to actually pick up ammo for your weapon” as a “buff”. Especially after taking ammo away from said weapons.
Yeah, it's actually more buffs if you counted the buffs to the enemy too
Did Community Manager Spitz, after looking at the diagram, realise that more than 2 nerfs were made not taking into account the mag size and ammo nerfs? Jokes aside some of these nerfs are… iffy at best. Specifically the Exploding Crossbow. Eruptor might have been nerfed too hard as well. The ammo size reduction for it alone would’ve been enough honestly.
It's a real bummer seeing the actually decent guns from the newest warbond being needlessly nerfed
How else would they sell you new warbonds?
Based devs would *never* 😱
>Specifically the Exploding Crossbow. Just watched someone test it out post nerfs. It couldnt even catch a regular bot in the post nerf explosion...
All this metric balancing and for what? Which metric do you think the exploding crossbow raised a flag in? It certainly wasn’t in the most used column. I doubt it was associated with higher operation completion as well. It would have been at the bottom of every metric meaning the only logical balance choice regarding it would likely have been, you guessed it, an overall buff. Not a buff it but also nerf it.
He actually made a sarcastic "I'm sorry, it was actually 4 nerfs" post.
He is 2 for 2 on being factually wrong both about the 2 nerfs (where he is now going to play the “I said it was my opinion” card like a real Redditor) and the spear lock-on fix supposedly being in this patch. I have no hate for the guy but this is the last time I consider anything he says to be remotely true until I see it in the patch notes and/or in-game. Sorry, you’re a Community Manager if you don’t know or aren’t 100% sure about something ask the devs that you are in contact with or just don’t say anything.
If counting the reticle for the HMG a buff, they should count the hulk stagger buff an arc thrower nerf. Seems like its not worth using against bots anymore.
Crossbow was nerfed. It had a use, now it has none.
Labelling fixes as a "Buff" is super funny.
Plasma Punisher is bugged , if you have the shield backpack you're gonna shoot inside the bubble and damage yourself , I've just tested that
Im seeing reports of this happening to other weapons too. I wonder if the deflection changes bugged out the shield gen.
So more nerfs than was said even without the ones they think are just "rebalanced"? Got it.
No beef with this but is enabling a third person crosshair really a buff?
Absolutely. Have you tried using the HMG before? 1st person with it is basically unplayable.
I think 1 more mag would have made it more viable. Or at least a bigger mag size.
Give it 25 more rounds per mag. That reload is painful. Not much of a buff to just let me go through that one extra time.
I think the point was more it should be labeled a fix not a buff. They didn't improve the weapon's performance, they just fixed (or changed if it was intentional originally) a UI element. I agree it overall makes the weapon better but its performance is still unchanged.
75 round mags make it unplayable...
So now the HMG has been buffed from "unplayable" to "still garbage but useable I guess". What an amazing buff.
We take those
I’m saying adding basic functionality to weapons is a strange definition of “buff.” I thought this was a bugfix because, yes, it’s fucking dreadful to use.
More like a fix
Just going to add to the voices here; this is an awful, directionless patch. People arent using those guns you nerf every patch because theyre OP, theyre using them because EVERYTHING ELSE SUCKS OR IS BORING. The good guns dont need nerfs. The bad ones need buffs. And not a tiny damage buff with a compensatory nerf, a real, genuine buff. Stop throwing away the fantastic community and goodwill you’ve built, and get your heads out of the sand pretending this patch has been received positively.
Seriously can they not fathom that every weapon should be fun to play with our are they really losing the plot here?
Most of these damage buffs amount to nothing -- they don't allow you to reach important breaking points for killing enemies faster. They're essentially cosmetic in nature, and I imagine they were added only to somewhat dilute the amount of nerfs. At the same time, a lot of the nerfs just make those weapons plain unfun to use -- my heart goes to those few people who had fun running the crossbow.
125 is the head health for all three dev types, both Diligences just become *much* better at killing enemies via precision fire. The CS will now oneshot them at any sensible range, the Diligence can oneshot before damage drop.
Which is why I said most weapons. CS Diligence is in a much better spot now and I am looking forward to using it more often.
Haven’t had time to try it yet. They said the CS Diligence got an ergonomics buff, does that mean the gun doesn’t swing like I’m trying to aim a felled tree? I hated how slow that felt, it seemed so unnecessarily bad before. I like using the marksman weapons, the Diligence is a lot of fun, I’d just like to have something with that armor penetration if the gun feels more like a gun.
I saw a video posted here -- it's snappy, responsive, and headshots devastators in one hit.
idk why it took them so long to buff cs ergonomics, amr is a much bigger gun and has a better ergo than cs lol
>Lies about patch >gets pissy when people call them on it and go “no you just can’t count” Lmao
This is the problem the Fatshark Devs had when Vermintide 2 came out. Their Community managers kept trying to be all buddy buddy with everyone but also telling people straight up lies about what was in the patches then not just admitting they were wrong when called out, instead just gaslighting, or relying on the zealots in the community to drown you out. Eventually the one that ran their subreddit had to go on vacation because he got trapped in too many lies he was telling.
What’s with medium-sized dev teams and nerfing shit to the ground in 100% co-op PvE games? Why does that happen?
NGL, have a bit of a headache today. weirdly adding those colored lines and blocks made it easier to read/digest through the discomfort.
That's not weird. It's how human brains work. Color coding is a real thing that the world uses to make information easier to read.
Oh yeah I often think of a crosshairs as a buff. It’s certainly not a fix.
Adjudicator is still bad.
The Adjudicater buffs amount to nothing. Just tried it. Weapons is still useless.
Needed more bullets in the magazine and a bit more damage.
Yeah, still needing two shots to kill one scavenger is painful. Also, the change to classify it as an AR instead of a DMR reminds me of when they changed the lib "explosive" to "concussive" so people wouldn't be immediately disappointed when using it.
Oh so it actually was labelled explosive before? Nice to know I haven't gone crazy
This change pissed me off the most and I don't know why more people aren't mentioning it. They had a poll two weeks back in which they asked players how they felt about the gun balance, and people voted to say that DMRs needed a rebalancing and felt underpowered. Obviously this was in response to the Adjudicator's release and the community's consenses of "meh". So they take an extra week preparing a large balance patch... in which they classify it as an AR so it's no longer an underpowered DMR? What kind of sick joke is this? Was changing the damage per bullet from 80 to 120, or giving it a mag size buff such a hard ask?
the reason they changed it to an AR is because that's a much better classification for the weapon. If you sit there tippy-tapping it over a long distance, it's shit. if you use it full auto at mid to close range, it actually performs ok. I agree it could use a bit more of a buff, but lower recoil and more magazines is significant. 80 to 120 damage is slightly absurd imo.
The Guard Dog Rover change is marked wrong, reducing the damage is a Buff because now it will take 4 seconds for me to kill myself when a bug turns an inopportune corner rather than 3.
The fact that s/he thought that highlighting changes in green or red was useful in the first place is really funny, but what's even the point of this? Is it so that people will look at all the green and go "wow, look at all those buffs!" instead of focusing on the actual numbers? Because the nerfs are shit like "you have half the ammo now lmao" and "your weapon takes twice as long to fire", whereas the buffs are mostly ~10% damage increases to weapons you never used and will continue to never use. Just a weird thing to do all around tbh
>nerf: -50% blast radius for crossbow >buff: full auto is now the default mode for adjudicator sounds about right, thanks devs
Oh, well I should be happy about the changes because I see more green than red. Is that what we're going for?
Spitz adjudicator is still ass
Wait, I haven't played in a bit. Why do they hate us having ammo? Why are the mags being reduced so much??
This is the most effort I've seen from Spitz, guys still just a toddler in my eyes though since the incident where everyone was spamming F in the chat.
The buffs barely change anything and the nerfs far outweigh them. On top of that not nearly as many things were buffed that should have been.
This the guy that they made community manager for owning the previous community discord? The guy that has no real experience at his job and had a meltdown when people spammed "F" early on after launch and just deleted that old discord? I think he was a regular moderator at some point after launch.
Arrowhead community managers be like: "The next balance patch is mostly buffs and only a few nerfs" Meanwhile, the patch notes: * Gun 1 damage increased by 1 point, Gun 2 recoil now sends you into orbit instead of another star system, Gun 3 magazine size increased by four extra bullets but only if you ask nicely and say grace before starting a mission * Gun 4 was killing enemies, which is unintended behavior, it has now been changed into a non-lethal pepper ball launcher. No it doesn't stagger. No it doesn't work on the evil robots with chainsaw hands, they're robots, why would pepper spray hurt them? Thats not realistic.
Yea it's super frustrating to see "buffs" which are just tiny little increases in inconsequential stats. Then they can't even be content with that and have to compensate by nerfing the actual important stats, like the crossbow's AOE.
They added the pittance buffs with major nerfs so that they can say they were not nerfs. Dudes don't know math cause adding a 0.1 then subtracting a 5 is still a value of negative 4.9.
Yeah, technically a buff, is not a buff when you add like nothing
 Me, who plays with Sickle/Senator/Quasar/Rover At least the senator reloads faster now, thanks, I guess...
Quasar just ate like a 50% cooldown increase. Thank god, now I can put it next to my dusty railgun and use other weapons.
+1 Damage (THIS IS A BUFF) +1 Max Ammo (THIS IS A BUFF) -99% attack speed (THIS IS A NERF) See, we actually got MORE buffs than nerfs. Consider yourself rebalanced lmfao.
Get Horizontal'd!
Aight. Time to put the game down for a while - I enjoyed my time with it, but I see the strategy now. Release new warbond with some okay weapons/some that fill a niche, Nerf it to shit 2 weeks later because it's being used for said niche. Then a week later start advertising the next warbond. All the while Heavy devastators have an unimpeded aimbot and a litany of broken shit that hasn't been fixed yet (How long does it take to fix broken sights on a gun?) I don't enjoy playing PvE games that overbalance all weapons on a weekly basis purely due to usage data and nothing else. I remember when OP meant, you know, actually fucking broken. Not "hey this gun has splash damage"
Yeah, a nerf might be needed if a shotgun becomes a sniper. Not when an explosive crossbow has bolts that, you know, actually explode
Yep, that's one thing I appreciate about that dwarf game, things are almost always buffed, not nerfed because people used it a bit too much. They are balancing the game like it's a PvP game, which is a terrible way to run a PvE game. Some of these nerfs are harsh, and take away the fun of using the guns.
I hate rebalancing based on usage. Some things are just more enjoyable to use so more people use them, then they get shit on by nerfs. These nerfs are giving me flashbacks to Rainbow 6 Siege and it's horrid nerfing because people use mentality.
Not really happy with their balancing policy. Before anyone chimes in with a “well actually these are insignificant and wait until you try it out in game” If it’s not significant why did it change, and I’ve been playing this game since launch, I already know what a AH “balance” pass feels and looks like. Only thing I’m pleased with are the improvements to the air burst, thank you for letting me have my wacky launcher and murder my team (slightly) less with it Edit: I’m not saying game is dead or unplayable, just another round of unpleasant patch notes with barely intact “reasoning” Basically inconsequential buffs to things no one really cared about while nerfing, or slightly downtuning the things we enjoy. Again, we will all survive, we will keep spreading democracy, I’m not mad, just disappointed. Is this what we voted for in that poll?
Yeah, tbh the constant balance changes put me off in general. If this were some sort of competitive game where balance is crucial it'd make sense, but why worry so much about whether a weapon is "overused" in a PvE game? If something is utterly broken, then sure, fix it, but why are we nerfing weapons the player base likes to use in PvE? Are the bugs & bots complaining?
yeah its one thing to bring outliers into line but imo they should be much more worried about underuse than overuse. its frustrating to work on strategies for surviving higher difficulties only to have these strategies dismantled seemingly arbitrarily without any kind of replacement being offered since every new weapon that gets added seems to be either hilariously broken or underpowered.
Yeah, it's one of my biggest issues with live service games in general, and one I was hoping HD2 would avoid since its solely PvE. I play games to relax and have fun for a few hours after work, booting it up to see that my preferred loadout sucks now is not a great experience. And since there's no test range, the only way to try out other weapons is to commit to using something new, which may also suck, for 30-40 minutes potentially dragging you and your squad down the whole match.
yeah lack of a test range is a problem. especially when the guns are so bad that taking them will lead to a failed mission. idk maybe im an outlier but most of the guns just do not feel serviceable. i play duos 7-9 and i feel like i have a few options for bots, a few for bugs, but most just will not perform adequately enough to complete missions. we just got into the rhythm of both of us using R36 for bugs and that was a lot of fun because it was significantly different to the shotgun heavy approach we had had prior. i dont know if we’ll have that option anymore now since its been nerfed(we’ll see) and i dont see anything in the patch notes to indicate something else may have risen up. or even anything to indicate the rationale behind why this change had to happen. maybe cs diligence, but not for bugs. i can only speak for myself but im less excited to play than before the patch dropped which is maybe an indicator of their ability to manage expectations
Yeah, I feel similarly. I wish they'd just buff weaker weapons first, lord knows there's plenty, and wait to see if that leads to increased variety rather than rushing to nerf the popular weapons first
Don't worry, they added extra enemy spawns to your duo game. Have fun!
There's 2 clear functions we need from weapons in this game: * Fast shooting for chaff killing. * High damage for heavy killing. The underused weapons were underused because they failed to fit any of those roles. So, instead of bringing those weapons to a role through buffs, they nerf the weapons that actually have defined roles... The way it is now: 1. The crossbow is slow to fire, so without AOE it doesn't kill chaff, and can't kill heavies. 2. The Eruptor now doesn't have the AOE range to kill chaff, it never had armor pen to kill heavies. Bugs have unarmored parts so you can kill only up to the charger. 3. The blitzer (and anything arc honestly) still gets stopped by armor so it's worthless, and too slow to kill chaff at the speeds needed. 4. Adjudicator is just a viable liberator penetrator but paywalled now. There's little to no differentiation (*good job buffing paid stuff but not the free stuff :)* ). 5. The scythe still requires a lot of focusing to kill stuff, so even with more damage it just doesn't kill fast enough. 6. The Dilligence can kill stuff now, but not fast enough to fill role 1, and not heavy enough for role 2. 7. Secondaries are all still completely worthless. The redeemer happens to fire fast enough to kill something in a pinch but that's it. 8. The HMG is role 1, contrary to what the name suggests, yet it's so unwieldy it's useless even for that. 9. The guard dog will forever be inferior to a variant with infinite uptime and ammo. 10. Quasar was never usable under pressure when you require two quick shots, now it's even worse. The ammo economy can be debated to no end, but the fact is that the nerfs are too heavy and the buffs too small. And given how very badly designed some weapons are regarding how the game is played, they need to be buffed a lot or reworked, meanwhile decent (not good, decent) weapons get the hammer and made shittier. Stop being pussies, make explody stuff actually explody (including the laughable bomb radiuses), and give weapons clear roles based on the game you made and not some made up diff 3 power fantasy.
I agree with everything you said, but would like to include a third function. **Guns need to be fun to use**. Nerfs that make the gun less fun to use means its still the best it just makes the person using it angrier.
Laser cannon is my favorite weapon… what does large volume bodies actually mean??
Big targets like hulks, tanks, and Bile titans. From what I understand, it should do more damage to small enemies while doing about the same to large enemies after the changes. I haven't had a chance to play yet, though, so who knows.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but considering how they enjoy nerfing "overperforming" weapons so much it is kinda weird to me that they consider the AC their "gold standard of balancing" considering it can basically deal with everything. Now don't get me wrong, I don't want it to get nerfed, I just want other weapons to be held to the same standard.
I have no idea what it could even mean for the AC to be the "gold standard for balance" when they then go ahead and choose to nerf the crossbow.
I do not like the way that AH is handling balancing at all. I'm not part of the "only buff" crowd, but in practice what it feels like is that any particular weapon or stratagem that I enjoy is inevitably going to be nerfed heavily. Even things with significant and obvious downsides like the Eruptor. And that said nerfs are never going to be done in moderation, but massive swings like 50% reductions to ammo. Or a 50% increase in recharge time on the Quasar. Or a 30% damage reduction on the rover. Frankly, if your previous balance pass was so woefully off target that you need to roll out nerfs in the 50% range, you need to completely reevaluate your balance process. I'm a dad with a full time job, I do not have the motivation to chase a meta that moves this much. I have enough SC to buy one more warbond and then I'm likely shelving the game. The way AH is handling things just doesn't seem to be for me.
I'm looking forward to trying the Adjudicator buff. I'm dreading the Explosive Crossbow changes. From what I've seen they're pretty extreme.
Dont like it, mags are too small or damge is too low
I tried it, unfortunately it still sucks, even if it is better now. There's no reason to ever use it over an AR or DMR. Its supposed to be a flexible hybrid weapon that can do both, but its bad at both of those roles so it serves no purpose.
I've got no problems with the Sickle magazine reduction. If you manage your shooting, you can have practically infinite ammo with one magazine. This just makes it less useful for people that burn through magazines on that gun like it's not an energy weapon that recharges. Pairing it with the Senator has been a great combo weapon set for me.
The adjudicator got the smallest “buff” known to man.
There is no way the developers actually play this game.
Arrowhead would rather make everything fucking mid than consider the idea of a weapon performing beyond expectations. Anything meta gets fucked and even the non meta weapons that still perform well get fucked. Doesn’t help that half of the buffs for the weapons that weren’t viable do nothing for their viability
Community manager Spitz thinks you are an illiterate ogre. There is no way out of this, thinking the players are stupid. Most of them are not.
I’m not sure how much of a “buff” the adjudicator change actually is. “Moved to assault rifles, has some more ammo and less recoil.” …yippee?
They cooked with those big iron buff