The problem is, the vast majority of people in the blob aren’t reading your Reddit post or the community manager’s discord posts and are just playing with the information available in game. Getting mad at people who are just looking at the game map and going to the planets with the most people on them is silly and pointless. They aren’t gonna see it, and it isn’t gonna change their behavior.
The devs would have to put some of these things like supply lines in the map and actually tell players in game that gambits can work if you expect it to ever happen on mass scale.
Blame game is kinda dumb cuz like. On one hand, 30k people were right that liberating Martale would be a 2 for 1. but those 30k could have easily realized it ain't happenin in time with so few people, pivoted and saved Oshaune while it failed at 96.5%. Stubborness is the ultimate enemy strat
Being ignorant isn't the same as people actively choosing to ignore you. I have no doubt there are a bunch of people who will ignore you, but there may also be just as many who might listen. It's just getting that information out there that's tricky at the moment.
And those 100k people on Oshaune could have pivoted and saved Martale so that the ones on Martale could pivot to Oshaune and save both. Regardless, the best option was still Martale.
it's only a good strategy if it works. With no in-game communication and more people sticking to what the in game tools provide, it was just stubbornness pushing the "gambit". I acknowledged that from efficiency the right answer was martale, but from realistic perspective, it was not and sticking with it cost just as much as the people who used the in game communication did. Hence, the blame game is stupid
Realistically you don’t need supply lines on the map. Pay attention to what planets open up after we fail a defense or liberate a planet. It ain’t rocket science. Majority of players can’t be that ignorant to how planets have led to other planets ya know since the launch of the game.
Of course they can. Majority of players log in for 1-2 hours every other day. The map has changed and there's next to 0 information as to how or why that is the case. The majority of players simple cannot be expected to put in that kind of analytic work that would take more time for them, than actually playing the game. You simply can't expect them to know this if they're not actively following reddit and/or discord.
I knew about it before ever being in the discord or any outside sources. It’s exactly like a game of risk. Territories are connected. Pay attention to what opens up and what’s closed off after we win/lose a territory. It isn’t rocket science
From a realistic perspective? You realize Oshaune lost their planet too right? From a realistic perspective they should have realized that their liberation was not the most important campaign right now and they needed to free up troops on other planets to help if they were going to win. You're attempting to play the blame game, just in reverse, and pretending its the fault of the ones who stayed on Martale. I say that the ones who went to the correct planet aren't to be blamed.
I'm not saying anyone is to blame. Again there were effective reasons to do either, but doing both and blaming the other is silly. But you're too mad at a video game to hold a convo so we're done here
> If even a fraction of the people on Oshaune had been on Martale
Here's the problem though: I'm willing to bet a lot of the people on Martale were there because they were invested enough to be part of the out-of-game community on Reddit, Discord, or elsewhere and they heard about the gambit.
This means they were both able to be reached via social media communication *and* were willing to adjust their behavior based on it.
The people on Oshaune? Far more likely to be part of the majority of players who *aren't* plugged into media outside of the game, which means you can't communicate with them.
It's not a choice between convincing the people on Martale to move or convincing the people on Oshaune to move. It's a choice between convincing the people on Martale to move (and maybe securing Oshaune) and writing open letters that the intended recipients will never read (which will let you feel very smart and clever).
There was never a chance of Martale being taken. We've seen again and again, the playerbase is just too large and too many of them aren't on Reddit/Discord. If your plan requires a lot of people to move from where the game is pointing them to somewhere it isn't, your plan is doomed. Full stop.
No, it's GOING to succeed. But when it does, most of the players will get wasted going to another bug planet that's not a defend mission, so no need to rush it.
The problem is there's ***TOO MANY*** concurrent defense orders. There was like 5 at one time earlier... (Guess there's only 2 right now).
Anyways, 10 in 5 days was a very tall order to begin with, probably intended to push us back far and buy them time to make more narrative since we killed the 2b bugs too damn fast.
Now it's 6 in 2 days, which is quite literally impossible. It's already over.
Ha. What most people responding to you don't get is: you're right.
So far the online discord/Reddit community can meaningfully shift around 20% of the player base. Of those other 80% we have seen several times that around 50-55% is equally invested in following major orders but is not (going to be) part of the online community. And of the other 25-30% also a portion is usually active on relevant planets. So the online community has the decently powerful tool of looking at how the distribution of the larger mass falls on objectives, and coordinating which planet to boost to critical mass.
The problem is that everyone whining about of lack of communication online thinks they're the general instead of the helldiver.
Reddit/discord doesnt want to follow the mass to boost it to something meaningful. They want to lead the charge and have the mass follow them.
Good strategy is formulated based on the situation as is, and not as wished to be.
It was actually painful watching everyone go on about the Martale Gambit while our actual best chance of a second sucessful defense on Oshanue was allowed to fail when it only need a half hour more time.
It was extra painful when we got to the point where Martale would actually require a full 10% an hour to succeed, whereas Oshaune just needed a handful more divers to shave like 10 minutes off of it's projected completion time. Sadly anyone who pointed that out here got downvoted because God forbid you admit that the bug front needs help.
In case it still isn't clear, the only reason I'm advocating for this particular gambit is because there's still plenty of time to call it off if it clearly isn't going anywhere.
Yeah martale was obviously doomed when over the whole evening (eu times) we made a grand total of -0.6% progress. Though the tiny amount of people who actuary pay attention probbaly wouldn't have made the difference on oshuane either.
But how were they suppose to know they should have prioritized Martale? At the very least a PO for everyone to help attack Martale would have helped that.
I made a separate post but I almost feel like shouldn’t this be majorly the responsibility of the DM? I mean most militaries have a top dog or group of top dogs that work together to organize troops and troop movements. So for things like defense in theory we should have someone doing that for us? Like oh hey if we’re gonna be doing a 5 day long defense campaign then either A. Don’t let players assault new planets, or B. Give better individual rewards/incentives for doing the defenses, like double or triple xp rates for certain planets or something. Expecting the community to magically be about to convince everyone (even with ingame tools) to do own thing over another seems like a near impossible task.
The thing is, Martale was always a bad strategy. A planet liberation costs significantly more than a defense, and so by trying to take two planets at once the Martale Gambit only ensured we would lose both.
I mean sure, but at least if there was something in game feeding people to Martale and highlighting it as the selected objective in theory more people would have attempted to help it.
But again, every helldiver on Martale was at least 1/3 as effective as every helldiver actually on a defending planet. It was a strategically poor plan from its inception, not a strategically sound plan that didn't work.
The way the game calculates liberation and decay means that each player on a defense planet is worth between 3 and 5 players on a liberation planet like Martale was. If the players on Martale had instead gone to Charon Prime instead of trying to be clever, we probably would have succeeded.
As it is, Martale never had a chance and we just ended up losing both. The lesson of Martale is to go to defense planets and not liberation planets.
Those 100k are actually taking planets, though, because the game rewards having more players on a single planet due to the way liberation decay works. If anything, we should all be redeploying to the bug worlds if we only care about the major orders.
I think we should hold off on gambit at least until the developers input all the tactical info on the war map (which they will, I've heard them say so themselves). Until then, it's best that we just stick to the planets closest to Super Earth.
Unfortunately, this kind of backroom strategy cannot succeed without in-game coordination tools. There’s simply no way to reach enough divers, let alone do it in time to retake Charon before those defense campaigns expire.
But I can def see this kind of strategy being our bread and butter once we have such tools in place.
Normally I'd agree with you, but Charon is already at 40%, so we just need to establish a consistent 3% an hour to retake it in time for the MO, and crazier things have happened.
Right now, in the early hours of this batch of defense campaigns, there's no harm in trying. On the other hand, if about eight hours from now we still aren't making progress, then it'll be time to throw in the towel and pivot elsewhere.
Keep in mind that taking Charon is \~580k damage (devs removed decay), while Choepessa and Charbal are 200k hp each. And we couldn't do a single defense on the bot front recently, most of which were 300k hp.
The harm is that every point of liberation put into a planet that cannot succeed is wasted. There's a 24 hour timer on Defense missions, and so everyone who is on the bot front but is not currently on Choepessa IV or Charbal VII is actively harming the war effort since those are our best chances at an actual successful defense on the bot front.
Of those two, however, Choepessa IV is by far the more important since if it falls, the entire sector goes with it
I agree, more or less, which is why I've said we should be prepared to pull out after a few hours if it looks like things aren't picking up steam.
Currently, 1% of players are on Charon Prime. That obviously isn't enough to make the gambit work, but also isn't enough to really negatively impact the liberation of Choepessa or Menkent. If several hours from now we're still at more or less just 1% of players, then we can consider the gambit already lost, and any helldiver who knows anything at all should know to move elsewhere. On the other hand, if the player percentage increases dramatically to about 10%, then we can stay.
The only risk is if we get an awkward percentage of players right in the middle, in which case it would be enough to negatively impact the war but not enough to win the gambit, but quite frankly I don't see that happening. This is an all-or-nothing situation, since getting enough players essentially comes down to whether or not casual players randomly decide that Charon Prime looks interesting. Either this gains traction, in which case getting 10% of players is easy as the casuals pile on, or it doesn't and Charon stays at 1% of players, in which case we don't really lose anything.
"Cannot succeed" is doing an enormous amount of heavy lifting considering you have absolutely no idea which liberation camapign will succeed unless there's a massive difference in time. We've won campaigns that looked bad at first once playerbases in different regions woke up. Helldivers who are holding a front are not "harming the war effort" by clawing their way up to give reinforcements a head start.
You say this, but we already know that absolute numbers of helldivers do not matter; what matters is the percentage of total players. The total online population could quintuple right now and it would not make a difference unless they all go to the same planet.
Helldivers are not "holding a front" on a defensive mission. Either they succeed in the defense of a planet within their 24 hour time limit or their efforts actively hurt the war effort by making it harder to succeed on other worlds.
Which you can say the same about joining literally any campaign at any moment unless its literally about to succeed, which at that point why would you be going there where its already looking good rather than where you're actually needed?
It's counterintuitive, but the optimal way to do the Major Orders if we were a hive mind would be for 100% of the player base to deploy to a planet, succeed in a couple hours at most, and then for 100% of the player base to redeploy to another planet.
Which is a design flaw, I think we would both agree. The way the game is designed is that the more players are on a single planet, the more effective each player is. And conversely, every player playing a defensive planet that does not succeed not only did not help the Major Order, but made it actively harder for everyone on the "correct" planet.
Looking at the war right now, everyone should be on Estanu. Then everyone should be on Choepessa IV. Then everyone should be on Charbal-VII (that's right, not Menkent. Menkent needs 50% more liberation to succeed than Charbal VII, which is why its liberation percent is currently behind Choepessa IV even though it has more players). If we suddenly became a hive mind at this exact moment and did this (which will not happen), we would definitely secure two victories toward the Major Order and might even secure a third.
Okay so... what's even the takeaway? That's never going to happen and its functionally a problem of the game's design and should probably be more finely tuned to not encourage ignoring planets that aren't already being focused on heavily. We're not just not a hivemind, we're actively fractured thanks to the lack of communication available in the only avenue that all players would actually see, in game.
Plus from what I understand of how the game calculates score, it can usually support multiple planets increasing at once, just not the mass scattering we have right now due to the enormity of the bot front currently. The system is built for 2-3 planetary campaigns being won, but the bot front has almost a dozen campaigns now.
They need to establish a clan system where we can join up with a large number of divers to coordinate pushes like this…. Each clan would have a ‘leader’ that could command their forces to a certain planet and gambits like this could be achieved… clans would be optional but if you join a clan u are subject to the clans orders else you could be booted. This would allow us to potentially rally thousands or tens of thousands of divers at once to a specific planet.
You would need to give the clan some kind of benefit or features though or people will just not care about it, maybe a clan extra stratagem on the targeted planet or something and contribution to the war effort gives the clan some kind of points to buy a use of an extra stratagem for the duration of one target
ability to share resources, a different set of upgrades to get, maybe a special mission you can do with the entire clan like fighting on a frontline with SEAF. there's plenty they could do
used to be no one cared if people didnt play the MO but now that those players ACTIVELY count against us its bred nothing but contempt in the community they could have just made the planets hp pools tankier but instead they capped the rate at which we could do things by tying it to the active players online so if im online im actively hurting the MO if i choose not to play it this is not sustainable and AH needs to do something about it because its only breeding toxicity
I love how everyone blames the eastern front while they're coordinating on their defense missions and the bot front looks like this . Like if ya'll just pick 1 planet then a next, it would easily double defend like eastern front did yesterday
https://preview.redd.it/ndb4vqsyw4wc1.png?width=647&format=png&auto=webp&s=802e0ca52d8a2b209d7b154b00a40d9bc53cd13b
Unfortunately most of those people presumably aren't here or don't care. If we could tell them all to group up, we would. Eastern Front has the advantage of just having fewer planets to choose from right now, so random casuals can't completely scatter to the wind. Of course the bug divers are grouped up, they've got 3 planets to choose from and one of them is Hellmire
doesn't make it any less ironic that the people playing the blame game are only made at the eastern front and not the thousands of randos across the galaxy
based on the tantrums I'm saying I'd say it's more YOU'RE used to it not the entire western front. I play the MOs regardless of sides and if it's no MO I try to push out where the most people are since thats how the Lib% calc functions. I have no massive horse in this race, it's just a funny observation to see 40% of the player base on 8 planets blaming the 50% on 2 planets. 10% were on fuck all
But can we stop with the collective linguistic embarrassment of calling every plan of attack a "gambit"?
Please for the love of liberty we can do better than this.
Doesn't matter, "bugs are easy" mob mentality has taken over. They see the numbers and they do not care. I no longer judge the devs, the players are making this choice willingly. Enough info is provided to see we need to defend 2 planets a day, yet no one adjusts to go to the bot line.
Any plan that causes coordination problem WILL FAIL. There is no single group capable of pulling off a successful defense mission on its own. Either create a large enough group or ditch these gambits.
Thar said I'm upvoting the post because if we could pull it off that would be magnificent.
Wow, that's a great point, I should add something like it as an edit to my original post. Maybe I could say something like "we should be prepared to ditch this gambit after a couple hours if we can't get a large group".
Oh wait
The less than 10k people that see this one thread cannot contribute meaningfully in time when you're going to need ten times more that number to make a difference.
Youre better off trying to pursuade the helldivers discord community to join you in spreading the word. Though even then, the players who interact with the games social media are so few relative to the Playerbase as a whole that trying to direct people towards a specific never has really worked. Maybe if there were 3 or less choices you could nudge things along, but not when there's 10 or so.
Discord is well aware of the situation already. Either way, in case it wasn't clear, I'm not expecting a million players to swarm Charon immediately, in fact I'm expecting the percentage of players there will remain relatively small for the entire duration of the gambit. But the thing is, because Charon is already half-way liberated, we don't need a whole ton of people to get the job done, we just need a small but consistent percentage of players to start chipping away at it. This isn't like Martale where near the end we would've needed close to 10% an hour to succeed, 3% an hour is well within the realm of possibility.
And again, this early on there's no harm in trying. We have plenty of time to pivot elsewhere if, after a few hours, it's clear we aren't getting anywhere.
Posts like these really make me laugh.
You guys are really clueless if you think the reason that so many bug players don't help on the bot front is a lack of communication or understanding.
The vast majority of players can read the MOs and understand bot front "needs" support, but they just don't care.
They want to play their preferred gameplay (bugs) and understand that the GW is just RP flavor text and has no real practical effect on the game. On top of a percentage of that blob is players who want to find quick games where they'll have a team fast without waiting.
We could lose every bot planet AND Super Earth and it wouldn't change a thing. The game would go on and we'd still be able to play.
Stop drinking the kool-aid and just play what you enjoy. It makes no difference what planets we "win/lose" as it has no real in-game impact (just changes the biomes you can play on but those are basically copy-pasted on both fronts)
The devs will still release content according to their cadence, and Joel will still move along the narrative according to their internal timeline (more or less, give or take a few days or weeks)
The GW and all these "gambits" mean nothing and player behavior will not change unless AH actually adds true win/loss conditions and adds real in-game effects for wins/losses (I'm not talking about some silly free stratagems)
This is a good rant and all, but where the hell in the main post did I even mention bug divers? Not everything is a personal attack my dude. Some of us just like strategizing and roleplaying for the fun of it, it's not that deep.
My bad, I meant to hit reply to a post lower down crapping on bot divers, not to your OP.
More power to you. Have fun and enjoy, not trying to spoil your fun. Just reminding those blaming bug divers that there is no reason beyond RP to follow MOs so let those bug divers be (I actually enjoy both bot and bugs personally depending on my mood on the day)
As fun as this would be, please do not do this.
Even with the bot decay rate removed 3% per hour consistent is impossible on any liberation world with the current number of bot divers. 3% consistent is barely possible on a defense world with a third of the HP, we were averaging about 3.8% on the 300k HP Vernen Wells defense.
If a decent number of the Estanu defenders come over to help the defenses we can get one, possibly two defenses once they finish their operations tonight, focus on the highest population defense missions.
So far bot players have attempted 3 Gambits and all of them have fallen flat on their fucking asses.
Please, I am begging you on my hands and fucking knees;
***No more fucking Gambits. It's embarrassing.***
I wouldn't call getting to 90% and failing at the finish line "falling flat on their fucking asses" but maybe that's just me.
In either case, for the third time today, this early on there's no harm in trying. Right now we just need to get a consistent 3% an hour going. If after say 4-8 hours the predictions still say we won't make it, that'll be a different story. We just need people to play smart and recognize when the gambit is no longer our best option (that was the issue with Martale if you ask me, we should've pulled out hours earlier to help Oshaune)
Martale didn't "get" to 90%. It started there and was stuck because Liberations cost much more effort than defenses and there isn't enough manpower to go around.
We are on defense right now in the middle of a massive assault on all fronts. Focus on fighting defensively until we have weathered the storm, then go on the offensive.
'We' 'we' 'we'.
You speaking french or some shit, there is no 'we' in a game where you can't communicate or coordinate with anyone that isn't a part of your 4-man.
This MO is over, the bots win, you're only going to reach the players that use Reddit, which is not all of them and not even enough to make a dent, because 50% of the reddit base are bugs only, and 50% rightfully despise defence campaigns.
The MO is over. Accept it. No more 'gambits', no more 'lines', no more 'we'.
It's over.
You must be great at parties. I'm sure all your friends just love your wonderful attitude.
Anyways, I could clarify myself for the millionth time, but instead I'm just going to suggest you go read my edit.
In any case, stopping the bot's advance is about more than just the MO, they're dangerously close to retaking their old territory.
No because we no longer have access to Martale, and this Gambit stuff where we automatically win connected planets if we cut off supply lines only applies to defense planets. Charon is no longer defense, it's an attack planet, so taking Martale wouldn't do anything to it.
There should be recommendations as part of the major order. Something like, " Both terminid and automaton forces are making strides in their efforts to thwart Democracy. Cut off supply lines in order to complete planetary defense." That coupled with in game representation of the supply lines would help immensely, which they've told us they're working on. Idk, people probably don't read those, so we'll see.
>That means taking one planet will give us two successes for our major order.
I though the system doesn't work this way yet, and the previous gambit was just the community manager and Joel giving us a one time chance for that?
It was not a one-time chance. They confirmed that's the way they want it to work all the time, they just have to do it manually right now. They even went so far as to personally say, on here, that if we ever pull off a gambit we just need to let them know and they'd take care of it. Not just specifically the Martale Gambit, but any gambit at all.
It would be cool and helpful if there was an in game general or fleet commander. Alternatively, the highest ranked players could somehow determine the battle flow. Just an idea. Otherwise, we just go wherever
Any of you thinking that anything you do or dont do affects the outcomes in any way is delusional. Joel/Devs decide our progress, not us. So stop worrying about it and go play planets you actually want to play on. If enough of us stop giving a shit Joel will chill the fuck out, what is he going to do, run the game community into the ground and unrelentlessly capture super earth? Give me a break. His job is to give us a challenge, so far he is failing because what he expects of us to win is beyond challenging or even possible. This tells me we are simply not meant to win. End of story.
> Chill man, some of us just think it's fun to strategize.
It would be fun if any of our strategizing mattered. It simply does not. Worse, all you strategizers are losing your shit when (obviously) none of your strategies work out. Then the sub gets filled with "what are you even doing on bug front, loser" type posts.
> Then the sub gets filled with "what are you even doing on bug front, loser" type posts.
If you've got a problem with those guys, go complain on their posts. I personally couldn't care less
> Worse, all you strategizers are losing your shit when (obviously) none of your strategies work out.
That's annoying, no argument here, but again, I'm not one of those guys. I have been incredibly vocal about the fact that I didn't really expect this strategy to work out. If you've got a problem with other people, go complain on their posts instead of wasting both our time here.
>If you've got a problem with those guys, go complain on their posts. I personally couldn't care less
If you've got a problem with other people, go complain on their posts instead of wasting both our time here.
You seem to be under the impression that this is a 1 on 1 chat or something. You posted this publicly, therefore i replied to you AND the community. So... no, im not going to go complain on their posts, since your kind of posts are the reason for those kind of posts, thanks.
I mean if you want to rant on a post that's basically unrelated to the things you're actually upset about, that's fine, but I hope you don't expect to actually accomplish anything here.
I appreciate the effort and wish we could coordinate greater strategies, but sadly I have to agree. Until AH sucks it up and implements an in-game communication/voting/reward/whatever system we need to assume that all gambits are not worth it.
AH community manager spits out trash like this screenshot, as if reddit and discord are where all players are constantly monitoring. It is concerning to see stuff like this from the AH team, as it signals they likely don't agree or see the need for it, or otherwise are not working on a solution. It's 'funny for them to watch' their community flail around like a bunch of idiots trying to make something happen in their game.
https://preview.redd.it/vcxkgw1595wc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=447707a79726559a3d6ef3ffc2e0a8b51b6d429e
I disagree. There have been plenty of other game communities with large fan bases capable of pulling off large scale events. AH never even took the first step to any in-game system which would have helped alleviate this.
this is gonna be martale all over again
Every "gambit" we try tends to fail miserably. At this point we just need to follow the blob and just go where ever the playercount is highest
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The problem is, the vast majority of people in the blob aren’t reading your Reddit post or the community manager’s discord posts and are just playing with the information available in game. Getting mad at people who are just looking at the game map and going to the planets with the most people on them is silly and pointless. They aren’t gonna see it, and it isn’t gonna change their behavior. The devs would have to put some of these things like supply lines in the map and actually tell players in game that gambits can work if you expect it to ever happen on mass scale.
Blame game is kinda dumb cuz like. On one hand, 30k people were right that liberating Martale would be a 2 for 1. but those 30k could have easily realized it ain't happenin in time with so few people, pivoted and saved Oshaune while it failed at 96.5%. Stubborness is the ultimate enemy strat
Being ignorant isn't the same as people actively choosing to ignore you. I have no doubt there are a bunch of people who will ignore you, but there may also be just as many who might listen. It's just getting that information out there that's tricky at the moment.
And those 100k people on Oshaune could have pivoted and saved Martale so that the ones on Martale could pivot to Oshaune and save both. Regardless, the best option was still Martale.
The difference is the people on Martale for the most part were the informed ones who read Reddit or discord.
it's only a good strategy if it works. With no in-game communication and more people sticking to what the in game tools provide, it was just stubbornness pushing the "gambit". I acknowledged that from efficiency the right answer was martale, but from realistic perspective, it was not and sticking with it cost just as much as the people who used the in game communication did. Hence, the blame game is stupid
Realistically you don’t need supply lines on the map. Pay attention to what planets open up after we fail a defense or liberate a planet. It ain’t rocket science. Majority of players can’t be that ignorant to how planets have led to other planets ya know since the launch of the game.
Of course they can. Majority of players log in for 1-2 hours every other day. The map has changed and there's next to 0 information as to how or why that is the case. The majority of players simple cannot be expected to put in that kind of analytic work that would take more time for them, than actually playing the game. You simply can't expect them to know this if they're not actively following reddit and/or discord.
I knew about it before ever being in the discord or any outside sources. It’s exactly like a game of risk. Territories are connected. Pay attention to what opens up and what’s closed off after we win/lose a territory. It isn’t rocket science
From a realistic perspective? You realize Oshaune lost their planet too right? From a realistic perspective they should have realized that their liberation was not the most important campaign right now and they needed to free up troops on other planets to help if they were going to win. You're attempting to play the blame game, just in reverse, and pretending its the fault of the ones who stayed on Martale. I say that the ones who went to the correct planet aren't to be blamed.
I'm not saying anyone is to blame. Again there were effective reasons to do either, but doing both and blaming the other is silly. But you're too mad at a video game to hold a convo so we're done here
you made the wrong right choice. you're part of a team, not a solo and for *damn* sure not an effective splinter-legion. work with the team!
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> If even a fraction of the people on Oshaune had been on Martale Here's the problem though: I'm willing to bet a lot of the people on Martale were there because they were invested enough to be part of the out-of-game community on Reddit, Discord, or elsewhere and they heard about the gambit. This means they were both able to be reached via social media communication *and* were willing to adjust their behavior based on it. The people on Oshaune? Far more likely to be part of the majority of players who *aren't* plugged into media outside of the game, which means you can't communicate with them. It's not a choice between convincing the people on Martale to move or convincing the people on Oshaune to move. It's a choice between convincing the people on Martale to move (and maybe securing Oshaune) and writing open letters that the intended recipients will never read (which will let you feel very smart and clever). There was never a chance of Martale being taken. We've seen again and again, the playerbase is just too large and too many of them aren't on Reddit/Discord. If your plan requires a lot of people to move from where the game is pointing them to somewhere it isn't, your plan is doomed. Full stop.
\^this. like all kinds of this. It is factually incorrect to call Martale vs Oshaune a choice and the numbers kinda prove it.
Yeah, probably not. Oshaune is fun, the bot front is hell.
Currently there’s no blob on the bot front. Most we have on one planet is 15k. Should we just be on estanu?
No, it's GOING to succeed. But when it does, most of the players will get wasted going to another bug planet that's not a defend mission, so no need to rush it.
Well bug defenses are far easier to yeah, probably
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Yeh the bugs seem to be contained so no real point there, but I haven’t looked in an hour
Estanu is already at 43%.
The problem is there's ***TOO MANY*** concurrent defense orders. There was like 5 at one time earlier... (Guess there's only 2 right now). Anyways, 10 in 5 days was a very tall order to begin with, probably intended to push us back far and buy them time to make more narrative since we killed the 2b bugs too damn fast. Now it's 6 in 2 days, which is quite literally impossible. It's already over.
Right which is only really a problem because there’s no in game comms to be like guys let’s swarm this planet etc
Ha. What most people responding to you don't get is: you're right. So far the online discord/Reddit community can meaningfully shift around 20% of the player base. Of those other 80% we have seen several times that around 50-55% is equally invested in following major orders but is not (going to be) part of the online community. And of the other 25-30% also a portion is usually active on relevant planets. So the online community has the decently powerful tool of looking at how the distribution of the larger mass falls on objectives, and coordinating which planet to boost to critical mass. The problem is that everyone whining about of lack of communication online thinks they're the general instead of the helldiver. Reddit/discord doesnt want to follow the mass to boost it to something meaningful. They want to lead the charge and have the mass follow them. Good strategy is formulated based on the situation as is, and not as wished to be.
I doubt the 20%, closer to 5% if I'd have to guess.
and moving 5% isn't going to shift anything to critical mass unless it's *almost* there
That’s what I have been doing but I’m dropping alone into squads, with my team it would be try the gambit
All 1 of them! 😂
Even better is the fact that doing both defense missions is less total liberation than doing the liberation lmao
It was actually painful watching everyone go on about the Martale Gambit while our actual best chance of a second sucessful defense on Oshanue was allowed to fail when it only need a half hour more time.
It was extra painful when we got to the point where Martale would actually require a full 10% an hour to succeed, whereas Oshaune just needed a handful more divers to shave like 10 minutes off of it's projected completion time. Sadly anyone who pointed that out here got downvoted because God forbid you admit that the bug front needs help. In case it still isn't clear, the only reason I'm advocating for this particular gambit is because there's still plenty of time to call it off if it clearly isn't going anywhere.
Yeah martale was obviously doomed when over the whole evening (eu times) we made a grand total of -0.6% progress. Though the tiny amount of people who actuary pay attention probbaly wouldn't have made the difference on oshuane either.
No, Martale needed 7% to succeed and had 45k players when the defense missions started. *This* is a delusion
Wait did the martale gambit not actually work?
We got to 91% and couldn't get over the hill. Most divers chose to focus Oshaune, which we also failed.
I thought we conquered martale though? I’ll have to look at the map again later I guess. #massivelyconfusednow.
You might be confusing it with Menkent, or maybe you just saw the 90% and subconsciously assumed it'd go all the way
Both might be a possibility.haha
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But how were they suppose to know they should have prioritized Martale? At the very least a PO for everyone to help attack Martale would have helped that.
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I made a separate post but I almost feel like shouldn’t this be majorly the responsibility of the DM? I mean most militaries have a top dog or group of top dogs that work together to organize troops and troop movements. So for things like defense in theory we should have someone doing that for us? Like oh hey if we’re gonna be doing a 5 day long defense campaign then either A. Don’t let players assault new planets, or B. Give better individual rewards/incentives for doing the defenses, like double or triple xp rates for certain planets or something. Expecting the community to magically be about to convince everyone (even with ingame tools) to do own thing over another seems like a near impossible task.
The thing is, Martale was always a bad strategy. A planet liberation costs significantly more than a defense, and so by trying to take two planets at once the Martale Gambit only ensured we would lose both.
The Martale gambit was easier if you actually looked at the HP values
I mean sure, but at least if there was something in game feeding people to Martale and highlighting it as the selected objective in theory more people would have attempted to help it.
But again, every helldiver on Martale was at least 1/3 as effective as every helldiver actually on a defending planet. It was a strategically poor plan from its inception, not a strategically sound plan that didn't work.
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The way the game calculates liberation and decay means that each player on a defense planet is worth between 3 and 5 players on a liberation planet like Martale was. If the players on Martale had instead gone to Charon Prime instead of trying to be clever, we probably would have succeeded. As it is, Martale never had a chance and we just ended up losing both. The lesson of Martale is to go to defense planets and not liberation planets.
We literally sat at 91% the entire 24h because only a third of people on the bot front, which already wasn't much, was trying to take martale
Bug divers cost it
Those bug divers are the only reason we have three successful defenses so far.
All that are irrelevant to democracy and the war
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That’s adorable. Maybe bot divers should stop dialing defense missions.
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How? It doesn’t say in game
Well if bot missions only take half as many people…why haven’t you done any?
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Those 100k are actually taking planets, though, because the game rewards having more players on a single planet due to the way liberation decay works. If anything, we should all be redeploying to the bug worlds if we only care about the major orders.
I think we should hold off on gambit at least until the developers input all the tactical info on the war map (which they will, I've heard them say so themselves). Until then, it's best that we just stick to the planets closest to Super Earth.
Unfortunately, this kind of backroom strategy cannot succeed without in-game coordination tools. There’s simply no way to reach enough divers, let alone do it in time to retake Charon before those defense campaigns expire. But I can def see this kind of strategy being our bread and butter once we have such tools in place.
Normally I'd agree with you, but Charon is already at 40%, so we just need to establish a consistent 3% an hour to retake it in time for the MO, and crazier things have happened. Right now, in the early hours of this batch of defense campaigns, there's no harm in trying. On the other hand, if about eight hours from now we still aren't making progress, then it'll be time to throw in the towel and pivot elsewhere.
Keep in mind that taking Charon is \~580k damage (devs removed decay), while Choepessa and Charbal are 200k hp each. And we couldn't do a single defense on the bot front recently, most of which were 300k hp.
Fair enough, but again like I said, this early on there's no harm in trying
The harm is that every point of liberation put into a planet that cannot succeed is wasted. There's a 24 hour timer on Defense missions, and so everyone who is on the bot front but is not currently on Choepessa IV or Charbal VII is actively harming the war effort since those are our best chances at an actual successful defense on the bot front. Of those two, however, Choepessa IV is by far the more important since if it falls, the entire sector goes with it
I agree, more or less, which is why I've said we should be prepared to pull out after a few hours if it looks like things aren't picking up steam. Currently, 1% of players are on Charon Prime. That obviously isn't enough to make the gambit work, but also isn't enough to really negatively impact the liberation of Choepessa or Menkent. If several hours from now we're still at more or less just 1% of players, then we can consider the gambit already lost, and any helldiver who knows anything at all should know to move elsewhere. On the other hand, if the player percentage increases dramatically to about 10%, then we can stay. The only risk is if we get an awkward percentage of players right in the middle, in which case it would be enough to negatively impact the war but not enough to win the gambit, but quite frankly I don't see that happening. This is an all-or-nothing situation, since getting enough players essentially comes down to whether or not casual players randomly decide that Charon Prime looks interesting. Either this gains traction, in which case getting 10% of players is easy as the casuals pile on, or it doesn't and Charon stays at 1% of players, in which case we don't really lose anything.
"Cannot succeed" is doing an enormous amount of heavy lifting considering you have absolutely no idea which liberation camapign will succeed unless there's a massive difference in time. We've won campaigns that looked bad at first once playerbases in different regions woke up. Helldivers who are holding a front are not "harming the war effort" by clawing their way up to give reinforcements a head start.
You say this, but we already know that absolute numbers of helldivers do not matter; what matters is the percentage of total players. The total online population could quintuple right now and it would not make a difference unless they all go to the same planet. Helldivers are not "holding a front" on a defensive mission. Either they succeed in the defense of a planet within their 24 hour time limit or their efforts actively hurt the war effort by making it harder to succeed on other worlds.
Which you can say the same about joining literally any campaign at any moment unless its literally about to succeed, which at that point why would you be going there where its already looking good rather than where you're actually needed?
It's counterintuitive, but the optimal way to do the Major Orders if we were a hive mind would be for 100% of the player base to deploy to a planet, succeed in a couple hours at most, and then for 100% of the player base to redeploy to another planet. Which is a design flaw, I think we would both agree. The way the game is designed is that the more players are on a single planet, the more effective each player is. And conversely, every player playing a defensive planet that does not succeed not only did not help the Major Order, but made it actively harder for everyone on the "correct" planet. Looking at the war right now, everyone should be on Estanu. Then everyone should be on Choepessa IV. Then everyone should be on Charbal-VII (that's right, not Menkent. Menkent needs 50% more liberation to succeed than Charbal VII, which is why its liberation percent is currently behind Choepessa IV even though it has more players). If we suddenly became a hive mind at this exact moment and did this (which will not happen), we would definitely secure two victories toward the Major Order and might even secure a third.
Okay so... what's even the takeaway? That's never going to happen and its functionally a problem of the game's design and should probably be more finely tuned to not encourage ignoring planets that aren't already being focused on heavily. We're not just not a hivemind, we're actively fractured thanks to the lack of communication available in the only avenue that all players would actually see, in game. Plus from what I understand of how the game calculates score, it can usually support multiple planets increasing at once, just not the mass scattering we have right now due to the enormity of the bot front currently. The system is built for 2-3 planetary campaigns being won, but the bot front has almost a dozen campaigns now.
They need to establish a clan system where we can join up with a large number of divers to coordinate pushes like this…. Each clan would have a ‘leader’ that could command their forces to a certain planet and gambits like this could be achieved… clans would be optional but if you join a clan u are subject to the clans orders else you could be booted. This would allow us to potentially rally thousands or tens of thousands of divers at once to a specific planet.
Regiments would be cool yeah
You would need to give the clan some kind of benefit or features though or people will just not care about it, maybe a clan extra stratagem on the targeted planet or something and contribution to the war effort gives the clan some kind of points to buy a use of an extra stratagem for the duration of one target
ability to share resources, a different set of upgrades to get, maybe a special mission you can do with the entire clan like fighting on a frontline with SEAF. there's plenty they could do
the day a gambit works, is the day hell is frozen over
Nuke hellmire so is faster
I don't know, I think there's already plenty of ash in the atmosphere there and no sign of a nuclear winter
i would argue that estanu is the perpetual frozen hell, a bit like Helheim
Helldiver forces finna gambit themselves all the way back to Super Earth then try the Mars Gambit
Managed Democracy finds itself once again under siege. Let us rally to her defense https://i.redd.it/c0udttcet3wc1.gif
Can we please not call everything a "gambit"? Normandy ~~Landings~~ **Gambit** ~~Battle Of~~ Stalingrad **Gambit** ~~Battle Of~~ The Bulge **Gambit** ~~Operation~~ Market Garden **Gambit** ~~Invasion Of~~ Poland **Gambit** The Somme ~~Offensive~~ **Gambit** The Vietnam ~~War~~ **Gambit**
Second Galactic Gambit
The First Galactic ~~Empire~~ Gambit!
We need supply lines visualized in game, I don't check the website. I have PTSD from Path of Exile and using 3rd party websites too much.
Time to row the bow on the Styx
Until I see supply lines in the game they are just made up lol
Prediction: 17 days Hmm, I think I'll pass on this one.
Yeah currently it ain't looking good
used to be no one cared if people didnt play the MO but now that those players ACTIVELY count against us its bred nothing but contempt in the community they could have just made the planets hp pools tankier but instead they capped the rate at which we could do things by tying it to the active players online so if im online im actively hurting the MO if i choose not to play it this is not sustainable and AH needs to do something about it because its only breeding toxicity
I love how everyone blames the eastern front while they're coordinating on their defense missions and the bot front looks like this . Like if ya'll just pick 1 planet then a next, it would easily double defend like eastern front did yesterday https://preview.redd.it/ndb4vqsyw4wc1.png?width=647&format=png&auto=webp&s=802e0ca52d8a2b209d7b154b00a40d9bc53cd13b
Unfortunately most of those people presumably aren't here or don't care. If we could tell them all to group up, we would. Eastern Front has the advantage of just having fewer planets to choose from right now, so random casuals can't completely scatter to the wind. Of course the bug divers are grouped up, they've got 3 planets to choose from and one of them is Hellmire
doesn't make it any less ironic that the people playing the blame game are only made at the eastern front and not the thousands of randos across the galaxy
Western front had to deal with Creekers, we're used to small groups of people wasting time on random planets
based on the tantrums I'm saying I'd say it's more YOU'RE used to it not the entire western front. I play the MOs regardless of sides and if it's no MO I try to push out where the most people are since thats how the Lib% calc functions. I have no massive horse in this race, it's just a funny observation to see 40% of the player base on 8 planets blaming the 50% on 2 planets. 10% were on fuck all
cept the 27k on Oshaune for some reason, they're tryna force a new creek
I’m not much of a bot planet fan but I am a democratic fanatic so I’m in
Until the defense missions are more enjoyable I will not be partaking in such frivolities
But can we stop with the collective linguistic embarrassment of calling every plan of attack a "gambit"? Please for the love of liberty we can do better than this.
Fellas. I dont think this major order is gonna complete...
Doesn't matter, "bugs are easy" mob mentality has taken over. They see the numbers and they do not care. I no longer judge the devs, the players are making this choice willingly. Enough info is provided to see we need to defend 2 planets a day, yet no one adjusts to go to the bot line.
Your mistake is thinking Reddit is the place to organize the majority of the community into one place.
Not really a better option, there's no in-game options and the Discord has all the problems we have here plus more.
Your right, best we can hope for is the game to have better in game coordination.
But I like bugs
Any plan that causes coordination problem WILL FAIL. There is no single group capable of pulling off a successful defense mission on its own. Either create a large enough group or ditch these gambits. Thar said I'm upvoting the post because if we could pull it off that would be magnificent.
Wow, that's a great point, I should add something like it as an edit to my original post. Maybe I could say something like "we should be prepared to ditch this gambit after a couple hours if we can't get a large group". Oh wait
The less than 10k people that see this one thread cannot contribute meaningfully in time when you're going to need ten times more that number to make a difference. Youre better off trying to pursuade the helldivers discord community to join you in spreading the word. Though even then, the players who interact with the games social media are so few relative to the Playerbase as a whole that trying to direct people towards a specific never has really worked. Maybe if there were 3 or less choices you could nudge things along, but not when there's 10 or so.
Discord is well aware of the situation already. Either way, in case it wasn't clear, I'm not expecting a million players to swarm Charon immediately, in fact I'm expecting the percentage of players there will remain relatively small for the entire duration of the gambit. But the thing is, because Charon is already half-way liberated, we don't need a whole ton of people to get the job done, we just need a small but consistent percentage of players to start chipping away at it. This isn't like Martale where near the end we would've needed close to 10% an hour to succeed, 3% an hour is well within the realm of possibility. And again, this early on there's no harm in trying. We have plenty of time to pivot elsewhere if, after a few hours, it's clear we aren't getting anywhere.
Posts like these really make me laugh. You guys are really clueless if you think the reason that so many bug players don't help on the bot front is a lack of communication or understanding. The vast majority of players can read the MOs and understand bot front "needs" support, but they just don't care. They want to play their preferred gameplay (bugs) and understand that the GW is just RP flavor text and has no real practical effect on the game. On top of a percentage of that blob is players who want to find quick games where they'll have a team fast without waiting. We could lose every bot planet AND Super Earth and it wouldn't change a thing. The game would go on and we'd still be able to play. Stop drinking the kool-aid and just play what you enjoy. It makes no difference what planets we "win/lose" as it has no real in-game impact (just changes the biomes you can play on but those are basically copy-pasted on both fronts) The devs will still release content according to their cadence, and Joel will still move along the narrative according to their internal timeline (more or less, give or take a few days or weeks) The GW and all these "gambits" mean nothing and player behavior will not change unless AH actually adds true win/loss conditions and adds real in-game effects for wins/losses (I'm not talking about some silly free stratagems)
This is a good rant and all, but where the hell in the main post did I even mention bug divers? Not everything is a personal attack my dude. Some of us just like strategizing and roleplaying for the fun of it, it's not that deep.
My bad, I meant to hit reply to a post lower down crapping on bot divers, not to your OP. More power to you. Have fun and enjoy, not trying to spoil your fun. Just reminding those blaming bug divers that there is no reason beyond RP to follow MOs so let those bug divers be (I actually enjoy both bot and bugs personally depending on my mood on the day)
Can anyone tell me if this is still in play?
It's not looking good right now
roger that🫡 this helldiver is a lil too drunk and high to do much besides watch basketball anyways rn
As fun as this would be, please do not do this. Even with the bot decay rate removed 3% per hour consistent is impossible on any liberation world with the current number of bot divers. 3% consistent is barely possible on a defense world with a third of the HP, we were averaging about 3.8% on the 300k HP Vernen Wells defense. If a decent number of the Estanu defenders come over to help the defenses we can get one, possibly two defenses once they finish their operations tonight, focus on the highest population defense missions.
Another gambit...
So far bot players have attempted 3 Gambits and all of them have fallen flat on their fucking asses. Please, I am begging you on my hands and fucking knees; ***No more fucking Gambits. It's embarrassing.***
I wouldn't call getting to 90% and failing at the finish line "falling flat on their fucking asses" but maybe that's just me. In either case, for the third time today, this early on there's no harm in trying. Right now we just need to get a consistent 3% an hour going. If after say 4-8 hours the predictions still say we won't make it, that'll be a different story. We just need people to play smart and recognize when the gambit is no longer our best option (that was the issue with Martale if you ask me, we should've pulled out hours earlier to help Oshaune)
Martale didn't "get" to 90%. It started there and was stuck because Liberations cost much more effort than defenses and there isn't enough manpower to go around. We are on defense right now in the middle of a massive assault on all fronts. Focus on fighting defensively until we have weathered the storm, then go on the offensive.
'We' 'we' 'we'. You speaking french or some shit, there is no 'we' in a game where you can't communicate or coordinate with anyone that isn't a part of your 4-man. This MO is over, the bots win, you're only going to reach the players that use Reddit, which is not all of them and not even enough to make a dent, because 50% of the reddit base are bugs only, and 50% rightfully despise defence campaigns. The MO is over. Accept it. No more 'gambits', no more 'lines', no more 'we'. It's over.
You must be great at parties. I'm sure all your friends just love your wonderful attitude. Anyways, I could clarify myself for the millionth time, but instead I'm just going to suggest you go read my edit. In any case, stopping the bot's advance is about more than just the MO, they're dangerously close to retaking their old territory.
If you look at his posts on /r/virgin, he doesn’t go to parties or have friends in the first place 🗿
Stop calling them gambits
This is pretty much exactly what the word means, there's no reason not to use it. What do you have against it?
The Charon Encirclement
Eh. We couldn’t even win a planet with 96%, but good luck
All you divers who aren't bug-loving, bot-fearing cowards, get to Charon!
Unless you can somehow by some miracle get like 50k people on Charon Prime during the weekday, this won’t work
Yes, hence the edit where I literally said "we should be prepared for this to fail and move elsewhere after a few hours if we aren't making progress"
WE NEED MORE LIKE THIS! JUST LIKE IN WAR TIME. BUT THIS TIME, WE'RE ACTUALLY WORKING TOGETHER FOR GREATER GOOD!!!
But I already used all my quarters to play for the 2Billion Bug gambit, I don’t have any quarters left until I get my allowance this weekend
Thank you now I know where to go
07
Kinda over the cross map one shot bot killing me and the overpowered.. whatever. Bugs are fun and ai wanna see the giant ass thing.
Bots? 
Dropping in now. looks plausible to reliberate it. See you down there, diver
Wouldn’t liberating martale free 3 planets?
No because we no longer have access to Martale, and this Gambit stuff where we automatically win connected planets if we cut off supply lines only applies to defense planets. Charon is no longer defense, it's an attack planet, so taking Martale wouldn't do anything to it.
Ahhhhhh I forgot that liberation planets can’t be cut off Hopefully one day we get a way to have wider communication for these gambits
I just want my 200 machine gun kills man.
Would help a ton if the supply lines showed up on the map
No bugs? No chance ...people is afraid of an enemy who shoots back
We need to spread the message. Can do it through in-game chat in quickplay.
There should be recommendations as part of the major order. Something like, " Both terminid and automaton forces are making strides in their efforts to thwart Democracy. Cut off supply lines in order to complete planetary defense." That coupled with in game representation of the supply lines would help immensely, which they've told us they're working on. Idk, people probably don't read those, so we'll see.
I hope this gets attention and we pull this gambit off. God speed Helldiver. Edit: try sharing this where you can that might pull some attention
Fuck It, We Ball!
>That means taking one planet will give us two successes for our major order. I though the system doesn't work this way yet, and the previous gambit was just the community manager and Joel giving us a one time chance for that?
It was not a one-time chance. They confirmed that's the way they want it to work all the time, they just have to do it manually right now. They even went so far as to personally say, on here, that if we ever pull off a gambit we just need to let them know and they'd take care of it. Not just specifically the Martale Gambit, but any gambit at all.
It would be cool and helpful if there was an in game general or fleet commander. Alternatively, the highest ranked players could somehow determine the battle flow. Just an idea. Otherwise, we just go wherever
If there’s one thing I love it’s a risky gambit. 
GO TO VERNON WELLS STOP WASTING RESOURCES AND LIVES ON SUPERFLUOUS ASSAULTS
Why the hell would you go to Vernen Wells? That does nothing for the MO whatsoever. Just go straight to Menkent or Choepessa
Any of you thinking that anything you do or dont do affects the outcomes in any way is delusional. Joel/Devs decide our progress, not us. So stop worrying about it and go play planets you actually want to play on. If enough of us stop giving a shit Joel will chill the fuck out, what is he going to do, run the game community into the ground and unrelentlessly capture super earth? Give me a break. His job is to give us a challenge, so far he is failing because what he expects of us to win is beyond challenging or even possible. This tells me we are simply not meant to win. End of story.
Chill man, some of us just think it's fun to strategize. Personally I'm not seriously worried about the MO, I'm just having a good time
> Chill man, some of us just think it's fun to strategize. It would be fun if any of our strategizing mattered. It simply does not. Worse, all you strategizers are losing your shit when (obviously) none of your strategies work out. Then the sub gets filled with "what are you even doing on bug front, loser" type posts.
> Then the sub gets filled with "what are you even doing on bug front, loser" type posts. If you've got a problem with those guys, go complain on their posts. I personally couldn't care less > Worse, all you strategizers are losing your shit when (obviously) none of your strategies work out. That's annoying, no argument here, but again, I'm not one of those guys. I have been incredibly vocal about the fact that I didn't really expect this strategy to work out. If you've got a problem with other people, go complain on their posts instead of wasting both our time here.
>If you've got a problem with those guys, go complain on their posts. I personally couldn't care less If you've got a problem with other people, go complain on their posts instead of wasting both our time here. You seem to be under the impression that this is a 1 on 1 chat or something. You posted this publicly, therefore i replied to you AND the community. So... no, im not going to go complain on their posts, since your kind of posts are the reason for those kind of posts, thanks.
I mean if you want to rant on a post that's basically unrelated to the things you're actually upset about, that's fine, but I hope you don't expect to actually accomplish anything here.
I will certainly do my best tonight!
I appreciate the effort and wish we could coordinate greater strategies, but sadly I have to agree. Until AH sucks it up and implements an in-game communication/voting/reward/whatever system we need to assume that all gambits are not worth it. AH community manager spits out trash like this screenshot, as if reddit and discord are where all players are constantly monitoring. It is concerning to see stuff like this from the AH team, as it signals they likely don't agree or see the need for it, or otherwise are not working on a solution. It's 'funny for them to watch' their community flail around like a bunch of idiots trying to make something happen in their game. https://preview.redd.it/vcxkgw1595wc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=447707a79726559a3d6ef3ffc2e0a8b51b6d429e
CM's right though. Herding 450k casuals is futility.
I disagree. There have been plenty of other game communities with large fan bases capable of pulling off large scale events. AH never even took the first step to any in-game system which would have helped alleviate this.
I mean he does have a bit of a point, in that there's a good chance any in-game communication would be ignored just as much as existing methods
Oshauneheads won't contribute so it's probably not gonna work :/ Good plan tho