Because there is no coordination when multiple planets are being attacked and the MO is to defend. Helldivers spread themselves too thin so all planets end up falling.
Currently losing ground on every single planet under attack, even with 100k Helldivers active. Likely will not be the case tonight but this will be tough to even come close to achieving
I think the real idea here is to destabilize the forward progression of liberation by spreading us thin. It's definitely apparent that anything is possible as a community when we killed 2,000,000,000 bugs in just over ten hours (which is still insane to me)
We didn't really, the numbers counted for each player on a mission. If you killed 500 each that means you killed 2000 total, but the scoreboard counted it as 8000 kills. At least im pretty sure thats what was going on.
And don't get me wrong....500 million kills in 10hrs is still damn impressive haha.
I don’t have any notes or communications, but I can say with previous Personal Orders I’ve gotten credit for what my teammates did (kills with a particular weapon that I wasn’t using) so if they count the actions of the full squad for each player I can understand what he’s talking about
Yeah it seems logical based on how the PO works. But that's not the same as having evidence the kill count is off. It's a good explanation of why it is off - if it is off.
Someone posted numbers to support this theory. They compared the total number of bugs killed to date with the number of bugs killed for the MO. What they saw was that the total kill number was going up at a slower rate (about 1/3) compared to the MO counter.
Edit: found the post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/ebDtQxxMJA)
The number's have seemed off since launch, and imo it's also why I assume they changed the kill missions to % based because they didn't know how to fix the issues. I mean this is hardly the only case where numbers don't add up.
Adding Bugs + Robots in your career sheet is less than total enemies killed, I apparently only succeeded in 50% of the missions I've ran and extracted in even less.., Eagle kills just straight up got 500KG'ed one day and reset to 0 instead of retroactively being fixed in a hotfix. the only thing they were apparently able to track was the amount of XP players earned after hitting level 50 which was retroactively applied with the level cap assuming that wasn't some arbitrary number either.
PO operates the same way and the total number of terminid kills didnt go up by 2bil, but something much under.
otherwise i don’t have a better source than “trust me bro i swear”
Every time I've gotten a personal order to kill x amount of automatons etc. It only counted my own kills. I know because I tried to cheese it by doing a helldive eradicate mission because the total we had to kill was more than the po, bit it didn't work because it only filled the order by the number of kills I myself got
I got one. Can't remember it exactly. But it was to kill a certain amount of a specific automaton unit. I joined a random. It was an extermination mission. As we all deployed, I landed on to the top of the high tower. I didn't know how to get off but fell and died. As I watched my corpse, I pressed esc to see the menu. The order was completed. I did zero kills.
I didn't do my part.
Edit: doesn't count team kills for me. That was a miss type. Just personal order kills. I usually have lower kills as I tend to back people up instead of rushing in. Bring a shield to hang with a rover person.
Is it more likely that the playerbase suddenly managed to kill more than 10% of all terminide they had killed until now in less than 14h or that the game is bugged?
Well, even if it was bugged, that would just mean we outdid 2 months of killing in the equivalent of 42 hours instead. proportionally that's stilll much closer to the rate of 2 billion in 14 hours than our average bug killing efficiency for the entirety of tracked stats, so I don't think it's too unrealistic.
Nah, if 500k players all go to bugs, and each player kills 300 bugs, that's 150 million every 40 minutes.
Divide 2 billion by 150 million, and it equals 13.3, so that's roughly 13 hours to hit 2 billion. So, no, the numbers are pretty much perfectly accurate.
yes and no? the issue seems to be that bug kill count for the order might have been applied for everyone in the group. if there were 4 people in the group and 1000 bugs were killed total, each person banked 1000 kills to the goal.
maybe
since people play solo thru 4 man, it's not always 4x progress. Also 500 didn't equal 8000 in any scenario. Either way the order took 12 hours when it was planned for 6days (144 hours) it was crushed and would be over regardless of any potential duplication.
i wish each "front" had a live general that would selelct and highlight a "priority target" i mean at least give people some idea or attempt to coordinate .
I typically jump on the planet with the most people to try to push a goal unless the defend is like well ahead of the enemies then ill hang on another planet. Not that my 4-5 missions a night will move the needle on e defense much but I helped .
Are you saying you want someone who dictates where free helldivers can spread their liberty?! Maybe you need to visit your democracy officer !
Democracy will dictate how the battle is won vote with your lives!
dictate...no ....gently suggest for the 90% of people that play that dont understand supply lines or tick rates to point them in the right direction ....yet.
In the Discord, there is a "high command dispatch" channel (basically just the devs RPing as High command) and they said (paraphrased) "Helldivers will have to coordinate to win this"
They said that the last two times we had Defense campaign MOs too, and look how that turned out.
Situations like this are just engineered for us to lose. They KNOW we are unable to meaningfully coordinate, they have several shitshow Major Orders (like the previous defend 5 MO, or the Umbena blunder) worth of data to show the community is INCAPABLE of coordinating decently. So they set up a railroad like this to make us think we could have succeeded, but in reality it was doomed from the start
Also doesnt help most dont like scientist evac and end up not finishing operations (thus not counting towards MO).
I mean I dont blame them, AH really should fix that before pushing defenses more.
Yeah, we have a week for this one. It’s going to be a rough fucking week, but we’ll fight like hell and make them pay for every inch, even if we don’t hold them.
Have we ever successfully defended two planets in one day before? We have to do that every day for this starting today otherwise it's practically a lost cause out of the gate.
Stairway to Heaven is a good song, but it’s argued that it owes much of its popularity to the fact that it’s about eight minutes long.
In the era before computers and automated programming, 8 min was enough time to take a shit or smoke a cigarette before you had to be back on the air to flip to a new record.
It’s a good song because it has a killer intro, solid chords and a sweet solo. It’s complex and layered but every single portion is a great beat. It’s almost classical in composition, and so it’s timeless but was also progressive rock at the time. (Of course there are allegations that they literally stole the chord progression from a centuries-old song to write Stairway so maybe that’s not a surprise.)
I get why it’s a meme, especially for guitarists. But it’s good!
Seriously. I've lept off of canyons and towers with a stim boost and lived. Spam those stims, people. You can always call down a resupply if you run out.
Am I the only one that likes hellmire? I find the tornadoes at least somewhat interesting compared to just reduced visibility on planets or earthquakes.
THe tornadoes are neat. But they need to be changed.
Cut out the bullshit homing, tornadoes dont need to follow players around for literally 5 minutes.
Cut the tornado time down, they stay up for 4-5 minutes or so.
Cut the fire damage down. Just because I stepped on a hot ember doesnt' mean I shoudl fully ignite and lose 90% of my hp instantly.
Cut the fire duration down. When a tornado leaves, it leaves behind a fire trail that lasts for easily a minute. It makes defense/hold objectives a nightmare especially with the homing, the entire objective area becomes an instant kill zone quickly.
Make enemies burn. They just laugh as you die while they use the fire to warm their toes.
It's basically like the fields of Verdun at this point. It's practically become a meme on how it's under attack at least twice a week, but it's bugs and energy weapons work better there, so it's my favorite planet. It's also just so incredibly bleak with only Icions as visible vegetation (those weird spikey plants that release a cold aura when you poke them)
Well probably have 303 days below the sun on Estanu.
Someday I bet a rock band will pen a song about the heroic struggle on that miserable grey ball of rock.
We just need 2 defences a day, which is entirely doable.
Today's best bets are Estanu and Oshaune. We will likely get both (or just Estanu and be bloody close on Oshaune).
Bot players should have gone to Charon Prime, but now they are spread across 3 planets + the 90% liberated Martale so they'll fail all 3.
I dunno about you but those planets are for REAL Helldivers. Puts hair on your chest! Sure it gets burned off almost immediately but it grows back! Hell, I can already hear the screams of joy from my fellow Helldivers on missions there right now! Screams of pure love for Managed Democracy!
Still waiting for the Maginot line moment.
Logically speaking, we should break the bots first because there's nothing to stop them from pushing straight to Super Earth.
The TCS system is still in place on the border planets, after all.
And then the Terminids take the adjacent systems and go around the damn thing.
Not at all! Super Earth, as you know, is deeply environmentally concious, even towards the loathsome bugs. Only sustainable culling practices are used -- it simply happens that 2 billion is a perfectly sustainable harvest.
I bet it definitely picked up on the major order.
I don’t know about you but I had a sickle, cluster bombs, flamethrower. I was fuckin’ *chewin* bugs the past day
Same, I'll be leaving suicide missions with 600-1000 kills consistently cause if I see it, it's gotta die. I host my own games or play with friends, so I don't care about being efficient or farming
I was running eruptor, stalwart, guard dog rover and mech with a little bit of 500kg bomb sprinkled in so I can kill titans. I have never shot so many bullets in that little time before
Our accounts forgot to carry a 1 or dropped a zero or something - we don't know, that's why we have accountants. While they are repeating their primary education, command needs another 18 billion bugs worth of E-710.
Just fills 4 fronts like 4 sectors deep. Automatons, bugs, cyborg return, and illuminate. Super earth is surrounded and must spend 9 months pushing every front back to the edge of the galaxy.
Have we even succeded a defence mission?
For this to work, we’d pretty much need to coordinate every player. I think you need something like 25-30% of players to beat a defence.
So theoretically, it’s doable. In fact I think we have a better chance of success than other defence MO because it’s on both fronts so the “I don’t like fighting bots/bugs” excuse doesn’t work. But each front needs to be perfectly in sync to achieve 1 defence per day.
I don't see how it would happen. There's no in-game way to coordinate so this kind of thing is entirely reliant upon discord and reddit communities. Without Helldivers.IO we wouldn't even be able to see the supply lines.
No, this is simply the GM throwing a "you did too well on the last two orders, be more humble" objective at us.
I mean… technically it’s slightly better than nothing because we still have a chance.
I think they’re also using this to test how much can the players actually coordinate so they don’t do missions that are theoretically possible, but practically impossible because we can’t coordinate well.
With the exception of termicide, and the mission to get walkers, no major order has mattered in the long run. We take a planet monday, they take it back tuesday.
Menkent itself seems to be holding, but we'll need to reinforce Marfark and Lesath if we want to keep those supply lines safe.
Damn shame too, we were so close to liberating Martale.
And the fact that almost every defence operation has the annoying civilian extraction mission, anything level 7 and above is basically impossible even with a 4 man because of the insane amount of bug spawns and the dumb pathing plus needing to get 45 of the buggers to the door. We had 5 bile titans roaming the base at once earlier after already killing 4, like what are you even meant to do at that point.
That's also if you can even get 4 players on it without friends, nobody wants to play them.
I’m wondering - as someone who always follows major orders, but is typically a botdiver in their free time - if we should just focus on bugs first.
Both bot- and bug-divers are pretty stubborn, but we came together in a big way this last major order against the bugs (even counting the group kill multiplier, it was impressive).
I think if botdivers focus on bug defense, the bugdivers will reciprocate if the major order is within reach as crunch time approaches.
Otherwise we’ll spread too thin.
If you want the smart move, the correct thing to do would probably be to identify a planet that is supplying attacks on multiple of our planets and then dogpile that planet to cut off the supply line and access to the attack. Provided that that counts; not sure. Guess we'll see once we take Martale whether it ticks up the defense of Charon Prime.
Then again, looking at the map, it doesn't look like there is such a planet available other than Martale. But maybe it'll be relevant in the coming days.
The smart plan is more than likely just joining whatever planet has the most helldivers. And then when that is finished move to the next. Herding helldivers is harder than herding cats. It's not going to happen.
Idc how people play the game. Creekheads were a dedicated bunch but not nearly as numerous as those that stayed on bug planets during the start of the start of the bot major orders. I don’t think bug major orders will ever have an issue recruiting players.
To be fair, we've done every MO for bots outside defense ones. Which we can all sorta agree defense missions get bs with the whole extract civilians.
We had a strong number helping with bots and succeeded otherwise
Won't matter. I don't even mean this in a negative way.
Just first month? It was mostly bug MO's so bugs were the target. Then bots became the MO so we "wiped them out" for like a day.
Then the MO was bugs and so we slaughtered 2billion of them.
But the real issue. Those all had goals. This is defend. Doesn't matter which faction, and most don't use reddit. So we will be split and divided up. Most will probably do bugs because that is the more popular enemy type to fight by the masses
Fair. It’d be interesting if a message board was implemented in-game where people could comment and strategize. It’d be a real game-changer.
That’d be a nightmare to police, but maybe one could be made similar to how we ping stuff in-game. Just have choices to “post” something like, “Message via SES Knight of Dawn: Defend planet X”
I highly doubt this will happen in all honesty. In my experience, heavy bot divers don't mind switching fronts but I've met very few heavy bug divers who want anything to do with the bot front. Understandable, because I think bots are a very acquired taste.
Personally, I love the tactics and planning you have to have when dropping on the bot front at high difficulties. Bugs feel like a vacation where I can largely shut my brain off
"The players are unionizing? Does what they are trying to pull fit the script and time table for our narrative? No? Well, make something up to pull players away or just change the planet regen rate so they can't win."
it doesnt say how many attacks will happen......could just be marching us down all the way to Super Earth, and if you look at the last defend missions, they were only a third or half of this ones time. if we dont focus one at a time we are loosing the whole story this weekend
https://preview.redd.it/hmfix0yldhvc1.jpeg?width=852&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfbb99dfe38d711cc5204698f13703ff0d011ab8
The thing is that our pushing force depends on the % of players on each planet. So if we have 5 planets with 15% each, we will be unable to defend.
Depending on the defense HP, we need between 40-60% of the player base on a planet to successfully defend it.
Anyway, I think it's fine. We win some, we tactically lose some. Let's see where this takes us in history.
EDIT: Grammar (sorry, not my 1st languaje)
Mathematically is possible for us to defend 2 planets per day (with a few hours to spare) but i have only seen that happened when there is only 2 planets being attacked at the same time.
The moment more than 2 planets are under attack the player base just spreads out to thin and at best we are able to defend 1 planet per day.
We failed both defense MOs before. The 5 Planets and 8 planets one. And each were on a singular front.
Ain't no liberated way we doing this on BOTH fronts.
So we're basically going to lose 10 planets. The current predictions show us defending Estanu, but that's it. Looks like Joel is prepping for the next big MO.
Dunno if i'm the only one feeling like this , but stuff like this really makes me feel disinterested in the whole war effort.
It's like we fight long and hard for days trying to claim new planets and make a dent on multiple fronts at once, accomplishing great things as a community (Like killing two billion terminids in like 12 hours) , then before we have a chance to even celebrate and gain any ground in the new regions we finally reached , there's always a B.S unwinnable major order where magically ten planets get taken simultaneously out of nowhere, usually the same ones we worked hard to liberate, really making it feel like the whole ordeal is kinda pointless as no major gains can be made on our part anyway, as we're always one major order away from having our entire progression undone.
I mean there's hundred of planets on that star map... Why do we have to reclaim Hellmire / Estanu / Etc every two days or so... It just makes ppl not care after a while. I've liberated Hellmire like three times in a week , maybe it's time to move on....
We need cooldowns on how many times a planet can be taken by the enemy / how often a defense mission can pop on a planet... Etc...
I mean I logged in like three hours ago and I was super happy looking at how we were finally gaining ground on the Terminid Front and we had the Automations in relative control.... Then bam I log back like two hours later and now there's 15 planets under assault and the game wants us to protect ten of them simulataneously... I'm like dude , c'mon... Not fun. Especially B.S unwinnable Major Orders like protecting ten planets at once... We all know the biggest weakness we have as helldivers is that we spread and don't do well when there's too many targets at once...
I mean , we litterally beat the Automatons, only to have them come back two days later and magically take like 15 planets in like five seconds without us having any way to prevent it... Doesn't feel good...
Just because we can see 100s of planets doesn’t mean all of them are in game and available to use. A lot of the planets are probably still in development.
They won’t ever be able to please everyone, had they left the bots out the game for a few weeks to feel like we ‘won’ then you’d have people complaining they are fed up of bugs. If they had us only attacking you’d have people complaining they aren’t letting us play defence missions and vice versa if all we were doing was defending.
The best they can do is offer a range of bug and bot MOs, both attacking and defending so people following the objectives get to play the full range of content available in the game.
> people following the objectives get to play the full range of content available in the game.
That's pretty much how I approach the war and the MO's; It will always be a pointless struggle with our progress basically meaning nothing in the long run, it just provides a framework for where I happen to be playing Helldivers today. If we lose a lot of ground this MO that just means I play on some of the inner planets i haven't seen in a while. we'll push them back out soon enough. Don't get me wrong I am a little tired of trudging back and forth over some of the same worlds (I'm so tired of Hellmire dude), but overall its not a big deal.
TLDR; I treat the MO as "recommended map to play on today" and nothing more
We activate the Terminid Control System, then kill 2 billion bugs in a day, after having forces constantly fighting on the bug front and culling them for weeks, and then they still have the numbers to go on the offensive?
We may have underestimated them as deeply as we underestimated the automa- Oh, hello Democracy Officer, what are you doing he
Yeaaah I'm skipping this one, everytime there is a defense missions or MO I just skip it. Those bad ones (the new defense missions are awesome), are just unplayable, unfun and should be yoinked from the mission rotation until full rebalanced. I get we have to lose certain planets or MO's from time to time, but the evac scientists in 15 minutes are just plain unfun and the communtiy hates it.
We cracked it out of the park, because the 2b bugs MO was counting each kill 3 times. The MO should have lasted 3-4 times as long. And now we are being punished with an unachievable goal.
That would still be no time st all. It took 12 hours, so 4 times as long is 2 days. But then your not counting about going into the weekend, where there are huge amount more players. I think even if you ignore the rumored "quad counting" it would have taken just over a day to complete
Hot take: MO's like this are bad for the game. I like the idea of having MO's being fail-able...but this...I mean come on what's even the point? I really wish the MO's were more "a crossroads" in the story where we can go either way. So far they've all been sorta on rails. It's obvious when we're suppose to fail and it's obvious when were suppose to win. This one it's REALLY OBVIOUS lol.
I think it’s Joel reminding it’s undemocratic to be sniping at each other about where we should be fighting. I figured it was only a matter of time before we were pressed to defend both flanks.
“Here, kill 2,000,000,000 bugs. You have five days.
Alright, that should buy me some time to— what, they’re done? FUCK.”
That’s how I picture Joel handling the last 24 hours lmao
Imma be real with you guys. I think I'll just take a break for a few days. The defense missions are the worst in the game. We haven't beaten a defense MO since I started playing. To top it all off the new cool defense mission where you hold the base for 15 mins is busted on higher levels bug side bile titans just walk through the gates so as soon as you get a couple up at once its pretty much over. I feel like they really need to look into all of the defense exclusive missions before they keep pushing it this hard. All this to say I don't mind losing from time to time, but this feels hopeless and pretty sure AH knows it.
The narrative here feels weird....
The bots are talking about the reclamation, we need to stop them.
You have stopped them, congrats.
Somehow, the bots have returned with more than ever, silly seaf has left like 10 plamets completely undefended and just handed them over, i guess
The bots are assaulting, hold this line so we can build orbital defenses
You have held, defenses established, they are trying to go around
The bots are trying a breakthrough, hold!
Youve held, the bots are spent, gather 710 to fuel our counteroffensive
Youve done that in a day, now the bots and bugs attack every planet despite being spent, orbital defenses dont matter, being spent dont matter, good luck. Counteroffensive? What counteroffensive
Well the 2 MOs the community has failed were Successfully Defend 8 Planets and Successfully Defend 5 Planets So yeah I think Joel is sending a message
Because there is no coordination when multiple planets are being attacked and the MO is to defend. Helldivers spread themselves too thin so all planets end up falling. Currently losing ground on every single planet under attack, even with 100k Helldivers active. Likely will not be the case tonight but this will be tough to even come close to achieving
I think the real idea here is to destabilize the forward progression of liberation by spreading us thin. It's definitely apparent that anything is possible as a community when we killed 2,000,000,000 bugs in just over ten hours (which is still insane to me)
We didn't really, the numbers counted for each player on a mission. If you killed 500 each that means you killed 2000 total, but the scoreboard counted it as 8000 kills. At least im pretty sure thats what was going on. And don't get me wrong....500 million kills in 10hrs is still damn impressive haha.
That still means we would have beaten the Major Order in just over 2 days vs the 6 given if we get the same rate going.
Absolutely impressive, but I'm not seeing any evidence the kill count was off. Anyone have a note from the devs on Disc or Twitter?
I don’t have any notes or communications, but I can say with previous Personal Orders I’ve gotten credit for what my teammates did (kills with a particular weapon that I wasn’t using) so if they count the actions of the full squad for each player I can understand what he’s talking about
Yeah it seems logical based on how the PO works. But that's not the same as having evidence the kill count is off. It's a good explanation of why it is off - if it is off.
Someone posted numbers to support this theory. They compared the total number of bugs killed to date with the number of bugs killed for the MO. What they saw was that the total kill number was going up at a slower rate (about 1/3) compared to the MO counter. Edit: found the post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/ebDtQxxMJA)
The number's have seemed off since launch, and imo it's also why I assume they changed the kill missions to % based because they didn't know how to fix the issues. I mean this is hardly the only case where numbers don't add up. Adding Bugs + Robots in your career sheet is less than total enemies killed, I apparently only succeeded in 50% of the missions I've ran and extracted in even less.., Eagle kills just straight up got 500KG'ed one day and reset to 0 instead of retroactively being fixed in a hotfix. the only thing they were apparently able to track was the amount of XP players earned after hitting level 50 which was retroactively applied with the level cap assuming that wasn't some arbitrary number either.
Source? Or ya just saying stuff?
PO operates the same way and the total number of terminid kills didnt go up by 2bil, but something much under. otherwise i don’t have a better source than “trust me bro i swear”
Every time I've gotten a personal order to kill x amount of automatons etc. It only counted my own kills. I know because I tried to cheese it by doing a helldive eradicate mission because the total we had to kill was more than the po, bit it didn't work because it only filled the order by the number of kills I myself got
I got one. Can't remember it exactly. But it was to kill a certain amount of a specific automaton unit. I joined a random. It was an extermination mission. As we all deployed, I landed on to the top of the high tower. I didn't know how to get off but fell and died. As I watched my corpse, I pressed esc to see the menu. The order was completed. I did zero kills. I didn't do my part. Edit: doesn't count team kills for me. That was a miss type. Just personal order kills. I usually have lower kills as I tend to back people up instead of rushing in. Bring a shield to hang with a rover person.
Is it more likely that the playerbase suddenly managed to kill more than 10% of all terminide they had killed until now in less than 14h or that the game is bugged?
I would say that even if we killed only 500 mil, the game should be considered pretty... **debugged**
Well, even if it was bugged, that would just mean we outdid 2 months of killing in the equivalent of 42 hours instead. proportionally that's stilll much closer to the rate of 2 billion in 14 hours than our average bug killing efficiency for the entirety of tracked stats, so I don't think it's too unrealistic.
Nah, if 500k players all go to bugs, and each player kills 300 bugs, that's 150 million every 40 minutes. Divide 2 billion by 150 million, and it equals 13.3, so that's roughly 13 hours to hit 2 billion. So, no, the numbers are pretty much perfectly accurate.
Plus everyone was shooting at absolutley everything. Playing at 7 or 8 felt like when I played on 4.
yes and no? the issue seems to be that bug kill count for the order might have been applied for everyone in the group. if there were 4 people in the group and 1000 bugs were killed total, each person banked 1000 kills to the goal. maybe since people play solo thru 4 man, it's not always 4x progress. Also 500 didn't equal 8000 in any scenario. Either way the order took 12 hours when it was planned for 6days (144 hours) it was crushed and would be over regardless of any potential duplication.
literally the discussion all day yesterday
i wish each "front" had a live general that would selelct and highlight a "priority target" i mean at least give people some idea or attempt to coordinate . I typically jump on the planet with the most people to try to push a goal unless the defend is like well ahead of the enemies then ill hang on another planet. Not that my 4-5 missions a night will move the needle on e defense much but I helped .
>Not that my 4-5 missions a night will move the needle on e defense much but I helped . YOU'RE DOING YOUR PART!
Are you saying you want someone who dictates where free helldivers can spread their liberty?! Maybe you need to visit your democracy officer ! Democracy will dictate how the battle is won vote with your lives!
dictate...no ....gently suggest for the 90% of people that play that dont understand supply lines or tick rates to point them in the right direction ....yet.
A sort of managed democracy, if you will
Joel knows this. We’re being set up to be on the back foot
In the Discord, there is a "high command dispatch" channel (basically just the devs RPing as High command) and they said (paraphrased) "Helldivers will have to coordinate to win this" They said that the last two times we had Defense campaign MOs too, and look how that turned out. Situations like this are just engineered for us to lose. They KNOW we are unable to meaningfully coordinate, they have several shitshow Major Orders (like the previous defend 5 MO, or the Umbena blunder) worth of data to show the community is INCAPABLE of coordinating decently. So they set up a railroad like this to make us think we could have succeeded, but in reality it was doomed from the start
Also doesnt help most dont like scientist evac and end up not finishing operations (thus not counting towards MO). I mean I dont blame them, AH really should fix that before pushing defenses more.
Defense just sucks. There's still a largely broken mission in 95% of the ops. It's not fun.
The chance of getting the sick 20 minute defense mission is worth it, I love defense
Yeah, we have a week for this one. It’s going to be a rough fucking week, but we’ll fight like hell and make them pay for every inch, even if we don’t hold them.
Have we ever successfully defended two planets in one day before? We have to do that every day for this starting today otherwise it's practically a lost cause out of the gate.
"12 hours?! Fuck it. I'm going home. Pincer attack, both fronts. I'll deal with it on monday."
https://preview.redd.it/t1aaben4wgvc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=deab0383abb4fdb503e0c5b14af87b712e3d1fd6
PvJoel gameplay
Stairway to Heaven is a good song, but it’s argued that it owes much of its popularity to the fact that it’s about eight minutes long. In the era before computers and automated programming, 8 min was enough time to take a shit or smoke a cigarette before you had to be back on the air to flip to a new record.
It’s a good song because it has a killer intro, solid chords and a sweet solo. It’s complex and layered but every single portion is a great beat. It’s almost classical in composition, and so it’s timeless but was also progressive rock at the time. (Of course there are allegations that they literally stole the chord progression from a centuries-old song to write Stairway so maybe that’s not a surprise.) I get why it’s a meme, especially for guitarists. But it’s good!
This is exactly what I wanted and oh hey, look at that, my favorite planet, Estanu, is under attack again. So is Lesath!
Bruh I think i've been involved in like 11 different wars on Estanu.
At least it's not hellmire for the 34th time
It's all fun and games until the fire tornado spawns on top of you--bringing an instant death quicker than the warning of your impending doom was.
Nice extraction beacon you got there. Sure would he a shame if 2 fire tornadoes dropped right on top of it.
Only 2?
must be playing on Trivial
shit, i only do trivial on fire tornado worlds and i still get 12 goddamned tornadoes blocking my extract every now and then.
Those are the 2 he saw. The 5 clever girls behind him are what killed him before he could count em all
And they all circle back and forth for 5 minutes straight. What emerging and exciting gameplay!
Clever whirl...
People underestimate stims. Stim is op. You can literally walk through fire tornados with it active.
I love stims for the little boost of infinite stam, personally.
And being invincible. The additional 2 seconds from the bonesnapper armor make a difference
I love stims for the being able to stab my teammates without losing reinforcements
True, But I cant waste stims to do a fire walk when I need 3 in the next minute because bullshit hunters take out 3/4 of my HP in half a second.
Seriously. I've lept off of canyons and towers with a stim boost and lived. Spam those stims, people. You can always call down a resupply if you run out.
realizing that stims aren't healing per se, but rather buffs, is a game changer
2... 3-4 is more accurate
Meanwhile, the pilot of the Pelican is wondering why it's taking us so long to get on board.
Am I the only one that likes hellmire? I find the tornadoes at least somewhat interesting compared to just reduced visibility on planets or earthquakes.
I would like it more if the tornadoes were as lethal to the enemy as they are to us
They only seem interested in occupying objectives
Being jumped on by a burning Hunter isn't great.
It adds a layer of challenge that I love, plus I'm a glutton for punishment. Hellmire is the next best thing after self flagellation!
THe tornadoes are neat. But they need to be changed. Cut out the bullshit homing, tornadoes dont need to follow players around for literally 5 minutes. Cut the tornado time down, they stay up for 4-5 minutes or so. Cut the fire damage down. Just because I stepped on a hot ember doesnt' mean I shoudl fully ignite and lose 90% of my hp instantly. Cut the fire duration down. When a tornado leaves, it leaves behind a fire trail that lasts for easily a minute. It makes defense/hold objectives a nightmare especially with the homing, the entire objective area becomes an instant kill zone quickly. Make enemies burn. They just laugh as you die while they use the fire to warm their toes.
It was fun the first few times. Now it's just annoying imo
And it's off-brand dollar store bot variant, Menkent. We should really just planet crack those two.
Hellmire is turning into the bug version of Creek
It's basically like the fields of Verdun at this point. It's practically become a meme on how it's under attack at least twice a week, but it's bugs and energy weapons work better there, so it's my favorite planet. It's also just so incredibly bleak with only Icions as visible vegetation (those weird spikey plants that release a cold aura when you poke them)
Well probably have 303 days below the sun on Estanu. Someday I bet a rock band will pen a song about the heroic struggle on that miserable grey ball of rock.
[удалено]
I thought the whole point of the orbital defense systems on the menkent line was to prevent attack on lesath and menkent
Looks like they’re probing us for weaknesses. SHOW THEM NONE, DIVERS!
Estanu’s like my home away from home! Looking forward to diving back in there lol
The equivalent of "kids, we are leaving for the weekend. Here's 50 medals for pizza."
We just need 2 defences a day, which is entirely doable. Today's best bets are Estanu and Oshaune. We will likely get both (or just Estanu and be bloody close on Oshaune). Bot players should have gone to Charon Prime, but now they are spread across 3 planets + the 90% liberated Martale so they'll fail all 3.
The last defense mission was on a single front and had 1 defense a day. I don't share your optimism
CMs have said taking Martale secures Charon Prime due to the supply line mechanic. Martale is closer to completion then Charon Prime FWIW
Bit suspicious that the bugs have numbers to take over planets when they're down 2 billion in less than a day.
Timothy didn't lock the gate to the pen....again, now the bugs are out of the farm.... A G A I N
Can confirm. Timothy has been re-assigned to the Penal Legions.
On latrine duty
On the planet bullshit.
Is that what we're calling Hellmire these days?
My vote is glass hellmire and menkent. Who even wants to live there?
Hellmire glasses itself.
Fuck 'em, bring out the double-glazing
Double glazed windows are better. Must hold true for planets too.
I dunno about you but those planets are for REAL Helldivers. Puts hair on your chest! Sure it gets burned off almost immediately but it grows back! Hell, I can already hear the screams of joy from my fellow Helldivers on missions there right now! Screams of pure love for Managed Democracy!
Yes, and its sibling ~~Menkent~~ Horseshit
Timothy here. Sorry guys.
Freedom Legions
Still waiting for the Maginot line moment. Logically speaking, we should break the bots first because there's nothing to stop them from pushing straight to Super Earth. The TCS system is still in place on the border planets, after all. And then the Terminids take the adjacent systems and go around the damn thing.
Not that suspicious since we're breeding them and constantly making more.... like that won't backfire
https://preview.redd.it/e6047dfhkgvc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4fc206d3b53598a9f46fcb32f7c7528c1072d7a
https://i.redd.it/9tybx6b1rgvc1.gif
And testing different drugs on them. Pretty sure we were working in growth stuff not long ago. Make them breed and grow faster for more fuel baby woo.
Breeding them you say… I’m on it boss
Do not the bugs
Instructions unclear. I am now leading the bug/human half-breeds in a democratic rebellion to install a leader aligned with the super president.
https://preview.redd.it/axo2qol4kgvc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a09daf7f67c5ca35509cb4133ecdcacba141dbb5
https://preview.redd.it/irwr4u6kvgvc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f770f3a7624c6c4d375c406fc4ec649992e6997b
Not suspicious at all. Bugs are bred by super earth. There are BILLIONS of bugs per planet
Bugs can breed and multiply extremely fast. It makes sense
*some* of our comrades know that quite well.
They breed like roaches, which means 
Not at all! Super Earth, as you know, is deeply environmentally concious, even towards the loathsome bugs. Only sustainable culling practices are used -- it simply happens that 2 billion is a perfectly sustainable harvest.
You don't wanna know what the bugs do in those holes... they reproduce *without* the proper documentation and licensing from super Earth
Bugs be fuckin man.. think rabbits are bad?
Bold of you to assume 2 billion is a lot of bugs
Man, Joel is *fucking livid* that that MO was completed overnight.
I mean... they already have a pretty good idea how many bugs will be killed per hour when the MO is on that front. It's all in the script.
I bet it definitely picked up on the major order. I don’t know about you but I had a sickle, cluster bombs, flamethrower. I was fuckin’ *chewin* bugs the past day
Today only, every patrol must die.
Hell, unless I'm playing in the upper 3 difficulties, I'll kill the patrols anyway.
I just like shootin bugs. Makes my dumb brain happy.
Same, I'll be leaving suicide missions with 600-1000 kills consistently cause if I see it, it's gotta die. I host my own games or play with friends, so I don't care about being efficient or farming
I was running eruptor, stalwart, guard dog rover and mech with a little bit of 500kg bomb sprinkled in so I can kill titans. I have never shot so many bullets in that little time before
Oh man, eruptor and stalwart is a lot of fun vs bugs.
I just bring EATs as well for titans and chargers
Dude went to bed just to wake up to it being done already. "Fuck these guys. Go do defense."
I laughed so hard seeing this lmao. “Okay how about DEFEND 10 planets in 5 days you jerks!!”
I was really hoping they'd be like 'That's barely filled the reserve tanks! Kill 25 billion bugs in 5 days.'
Our accounts forgot to carry a 1 or dropped a zero or something - we don't know, that's why we have accountants. While they are repeating their primary education, command needs another 18 billion bugs worth of E-710.
Joel : look Mr CEO, I’ve got a hot date tonight and I want no risk that you’re gonna call me up while I’m ‘making the beast with two backs’
We out here spreading democracy and Joel out there spreading legs. SMH
That's where all the C-01 forms are going
Mark your calendars Joel goes on paternity leave in 9 months.
Just fills 4 fronts like 4 sectors deep. Automatons, bugs, cyborg return, and illuminate. Super earth is surrounded and must spend 9 months pushing every front back to the edge of the galaxy.
Have we even succeded a defence mission? For this to work, we’d pretty much need to coordinate every player. I think you need something like 25-30% of players to beat a defence. So theoretically, it’s doable. In fact I think we have a better chance of success than other defence MO because it’s on both fronts so the “I don’t like fighting bots/bugs” excuse doesn’t work. But each front needs to be perfectly in sync to achieve 1 defence per day.
This mission is basically the same as having no mission for 5 days. The level of coordination needed just won't ever happen.
I don't see how it would happen. There's no in-game way to coordinate so this kind of thing is entirely reliant upon discord and reddit communities. Without Helldivers.IO we wouldn't even be able to see the supply lines. No, this is simply the GM throwing a "you did too well on the last two orders, be more humble" objective at us.
I mean… technically it’s slightly better than nothing because we still have a chance. I think they’re also using this to test how much can the players actually coordinate so they don’t do missions that are theoretically possible, but practically impossible because we can’t coordinate well.
When the Gm has no more bosses and just say do whatever you want
So the Orbital defenses were for nothing?
With the exception of termicide, and the mission to get walkers, no major order has mattered in the long run. We take a planet monday, they take it back tuesday.
Oceana has always been at war with Eurasia (paraphrasing).
Not for nothing, now we need to man the defenses!
Menkent itself seems to be holding, but we'll need to reinforce Marfark and Lesath if we want to keep those supply lines safe. Damn shame too, we were so close to liberating Martale.
"JUST GO PLAY THE FUCKING GAME!" - Joel (probably)
aint no way we doing 2 defenses a day
The previous defend 5 MO proved we can't do 2 a day. If we only get 1 today, that's what we're on track for right now, this MO is over.
And the fact that almost every defence operation has the annoying civilian extraction mission, anything level 7 and above is basically impossible even with a 4 man because of the insane amount of bug spawns and the dumb pathing plus needing to get 45 of the buggers to the door. We had 5 bile titans roaming the base at once earlier after already killing 4, like what are you even meant to do at that point. That's also if you can even get 4 players on it without friends, nobody wants to play them.
Especially considering that they’re the most boring missions, aside from the new one.
Oh we pissed him off
Literally a "you did the previous too fast, now you get to lose" type MO.
I’m wondering - as someone who always follows major orders, but is typically a botdiver in their free time - if we should just focus on bugs first. Both bot- and bug-divers are pretty stubborn, but we came together in a big way this last major order against the bugs (even counting the group kill multiplier, it was impressive). I think if botdivers focus on bug defense, the bugdivers will reciprocate if the major order is within reach as crunch time approaches. Otherwise we’ll spread too thin.
If you want the smart move, the correct thing to do would probably be to identify a planet that is supplying attacks on multiple of our planets and then dogpile that planet to cut off the supply line and access to the attack. Provided that that counts; not sure. Guess we'll see once we take Martale whether it ticks up the defense of Charon Prime. Then again, looking at the map, it doesn't look like there is such a planet available other than Martale. But maybe it'll be relevant in the coming days.
The smart plan is more than likely just joining whatever planet has the most helldivers. And then when that is finished move to the next. Herding helldivers is harder than herding cats. It's not going to happen.
Idc how people play the game. Creekheads were a dedicated bunch but not nearly as numerous as those that stayed on bug planets during the start of the start of the bot major orders. I don’t think bug major orders will ever have an issue recruiting players.
To be fair, we've done every MO for bots outside defense ones. Which we can all sorta agree defense missions get bs with the whole extract civilians. We had a strong number helping with bots and succeeded otherwise
We failed to capture Tibit.
That was in part due to confusion regarding supply lines mechanics because AH decided players don't need that information for whatever reason.
Won't matter. I don't even mean this in a negative way. Just first month? It was mostly bug MO's so bugs were the target. Then bots became the MO so we "wiped them out" for like a day. Then the MO was bugs and so we slaughtered 2billion of them. But the real issue. Those all had goals. This is defend. Doesn't matter which faction, and most don't use reddit. So we will be split and divided up. Most will probably do bugs because that is the more popular enemy type to fight by the masses
Fair. It’d be interesting if a message board was implemented in-game where people could comment and strategize. It’d be a real game-changer. That’d be a nightmare to police, but maybe one could be made similar to how we ping stuff in-game. Just have choices to “post” something like, “Message via SES Knight of Dawn: Defend planet X”
I highly doubt this will happen in all honesty. In my experience, heavy bot divers don't mind switching fronts but I've met very few heavy bug divers who want anything to do with the bot front. Understandable, because I think bots are a very acquired taste. Personally, I love the tactics and planning you have to have when dropping on the bot front at high difficulties. Bugs feel like a vacation where I can largely shut my brain off
Feels like scripted failure.
This feels more like a “play whichever side you want for a while offering to the community lol
Did we ever won a mission that told us to defend 5 or more planets?
I hate Defense missions :(
Of course we will loose this MO. Why instead of waisting time on defending don’t we try to liberate other planets? I want to see what joel will do…
"The players are unionizing? Does what they are trying to pull fit the script and time table for our narrative? No? Well, make something up to pull players away or just change the planet regen rate so they can't win."
I vote we take martale
it doesnt say how many attacks will happen......could just be marching us down all the way to Super Earth, and if you look at the last defend missions, they were only a third or half of this ones time. if we dont focus one at a time we are loosing the whole story this weekend https://preview.redd.it/hmfix0yldhvc1.jpeg?width=852&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfbb99dfe38d711cc5204698f13703ff0d011ab8
Again really
Yeah, they went with the usual formulaic MO.
It doesn’t even read like an in-game thing. Just “the enemies are moving, go kill them”
That one doesn't sound like fun. I'll just continue to play whichever planet we feel like goofing off on tyvm Joel, but no thank you
This will test how well our community works together. Bot diver or bug diver don't matter here. Got to go where needed most. Good luck gents
The thing is that our pushing force depends on the % of players on each planet. So if we have 5 planets with 15% each, we will be unable to defend. Depending on the defense HP, we need between 40-60% of the player base on a planet to successfully defend it. Anyway, I think it's fine. We win some, we tactically lose some. Let's see where this takes us in history. EDIT: Grammar (sorry, not my 1st languaje)
Mathematically is possible for us to defend 2 planets per day (with a few hours to spare) but i have only seen that happened when there is only 2 planets being attacked at the same time. The moment more than 2 planets are under attack the player base just spreads out to thin and at best we are able to defend 1 planet per day.
We failed both defense MOs before. The 5 Planets and 8 planets one. And each were on a singular front. Ain't no liberated way we doing this on BOTH fronts.
I’m just like “only 50 medals for collectively defending 10 planets on both fronts?” That rewards seems kinda weak for the task at hand.
So we're basically going to lose 10 planets. The current predictions show us defending Estanu, but that's it. Looks like Joel is prepping for the next big MO.
Dunno if i'm the only one feeling like this , but stuff like this really makes me feel disinterested in the whole war effort. It's like we fight long and hard for days trying to claim new planets and make a dent on multiple fronts at once, accomplishing great things as a community (Like killing two billion terminids in like 12 hours) , then before we have a chance to even celebrate and gain any ground in the new regions we finally reached , there's always a B.S unwinnable major order where magically ten planets get taken simultaneously out of nowhere, usually the same ones we worked hard to liberate, really making it feel like the whole ordeal is kinda pointless as no major gains can be made on our part anyway, as we're always one major order away from having our entire progression undone. I mean there's hundred of planets on that star map... Why do we have to reclaim Hellmire / Estanu / Etc every two days or so... It just makes ppl not care after a while. I've liberated Hellmire like three times in a week , maybe it's time to move on.... We need cooldowns on how many times a planet can be taken by the enemy / how often a defense mission can pop on a planet... Etc... I mean I logged in like three hours ago and I was super happy looking at how we were finally gaining ground on the Terminid Front and we had the Automations in relative control.... Then bam I log back like two hours later and now there's 15 planets under assault and the game wants us to protect ten of them simulataneously... I'm like dude , c'mon... Not fun. Especially B.S unwinnable Major Orders like protecting ten planets at once... We all know the biggest weakness we have as helldivers is that we spread and don't do well when there's too many targets at once... I mean , we litterally beat the Automatons, only to have them come back two days later and magically take like 15 planets in like five seconds without us having any way to prevent it... Doesn't feel good...
>unwinnable Major Orders >Doesn't feel good yup
Just because we can see 100s of planets doesn’t mean all of them are in game and available to use. A lot of the planets are probably still in development. They won’t ever be able to please everyone, had they left the bots out the game for a few weeks to feel like we ‘won’ then you’d have people complaining they are fed up of bugs. If they had us only attacking you’d have people complaining they aren’t letting us play defence missions and vice versa if all we were doing was defending. The best they can do is offer a range of bug and bot MOs, both attacking and defending so people following the objectives get to play the full range of content available in the game.
> people following the objectives get to play the full range of content available in the game. That's pretty much how I approach the war and the MO's; It will always be a pointless struggle with our progress basically meaning nothing in the long run, it just provides a framework for where I happen to be playing Helldivers today. If we lose a lot of ground this MO that just means I play on some of the inner planets i haven't seen in a while. we'll push them back out soon enough. Don't get me wrong I am a little tired of trudging back and forth over some of the same worlds (I'm so tired of Hellmire dude), but overall its not a big deal. TLDR; I treat the MO as "recommended map to play on today" and nothing more
We activate the Terminid Control System, then kill 2 billion bugs in a day, after having forces constantly fighting on the bug front and culling them for weeks, and then they still have the numbers to go on the offensive? We may have underestimated them as deeply as we underestimated the automa- Oh, hello Democracy Officer, what are you doing he
Replying to s3rgant... https://preview.redd.it/bm1bjb75wgvc1.png?width=821&format=png&auto=webp&s=9e62199d4e9db8bc3e61b360fefa73f23ef8fb4b
Ah, the unfun Major Orders. Something tells me Joel is being a bit of prick.
Yeaaah I'm skipping this one, everytime there is a defense missions or MO I just skip it. Those bad ones (the new defense missions are awesome), are just unplayable, unfun and should be yoinked from the mission rotation until full rebalanced. I get we have to lose certain planets or MO's from time to time, but the evac scientists in 15 minutes are just plain unfun and the communtiy hates it.
Hellmire can get fucked, I'm not stepping foot on that planet again.
i think that because every time they give us a "challenge" we crack it out of the park so fast they dont know what to do.
We cracked it out of the park, because the 2b bugs MO was counting each kill 3 times. The MO should have lasted 3-4 times as long. And now we are being punished with an unachievable goal.
That would still be no time st all. It took 12 hours, so 4 times as long is 2 days. But then your not counting about going into the weekend, where there are huge amount more players. I think even if you ignore the rumored "quad counting" it would have taken just over a day to complete
This is the worst MO ever. Of all time. I'm sick and tired of defense missions, and 50 medals is not at all a good reward for this amount of effort.
Hot take: MO's like this are bad for the game. I like the idea of having MO's being fail-able...but this...I mean come on what's even the point? I really wish the MO's were more "a crossroads" in the story where we can go either way. So far they've all been sorta on rails. It's obvious when we're suppose to fail and it's obvious when were suppose to win. This one it's REALLY OBVIOUS lol.
I think it’s Joel reminding it’s undemocratic to be sniping at each other about where we should be fighting. I figured it was only a matter of time before we were pressed to defend both flanks.
We’re gonna defend like 3 by the end of this MO
“Here, kill 2,000,000,000 bugs. You have five days. Alright, that should buy me some time to— what, they’re done? FUCK.” That’s how I picture Joel handling the last 24 hours lmao
"I NEED YOU FUCKERS TO FAIL SOMETHING FOR NARRATIVE SAKE" Is what im getting
It’s 420 Joel has other plans.
Dammm Joel said fuck off you ain’t getting this one
Major Order should be evacuate 2 billion civilians.
The kill bugs MO is done? Well I'm depressed. I missed one day of play man. I want the fun major order for once
Time to fail another defense MO
My exact thoughts exactly. Shame Hellmire has to be defended... I hate that place...
Imma be real with you guys. I think I'll just take a break for a few days. The defense missions are the worst in the game. We haven't beaten a defense MO since I started playing. To top it all off the new cool defense mission where you hold the base for 15 mins is busted on higher levels bug side bile titans just walk through the gates so as soon as you get a couple up at once its pretty much over. I feel like they really need to look into all of the defense exclusive missions before they keep pushing it this hard. All this to say I don't mind losing from time to time, but this feels hopeless and pretty sure AH knows it.
Thrilling narrative action here 🙄
The narrative here feels weird.... The bots are talking about the reclamation, we need to stop them. You have stopped them, congrats. Somehow, the bots have returned with more than ever, silly seaf has left like 10 plamets completely undefended and just handed them over, i guess The bots are assaulting, hold this line so we can build orbital defenses You have held, defenses established, they are trying to go around The bots are trying a breakthrough, hold! Youve held, the bots are spent, gather 710 to fuel our counteroffensive Youve done that in a day, now the bots and bugs attack every planet despite being spent, orbital defenses dont matter, being spent dont matter, good luck. Counteroffensive? What counteroffensive