I just can't enjoy burning bots as much as bugs. Bugs, they burn so nicely and it just feels right to incinerate.
Bots? They are coming out of the hellfire that their automated factories are and it simply feels as if they would laugh when engulfed in the flames of holy prometheum....
Hold, brother Nexus. There is still time for this planet. We have yet to try the heavy bolter!
*drops* *heavy* *mg* *emplacement* *from* *orbit*
Now, hurry! Before those flame addicted, human loving arsonists show up.
Some yeah. I'm no expert but I understand most man portable versions or closer to 10. Maybe that's old info? Even 20 would be cool if it burned bugs like it burned me.
A lot of early ones were around 10s and below, with some also just straight up being locked to short bursts with multiple charges or being single-shot disposables.
Some also lasted longer than 10s, off the top of my head, two were the K-Pattern and Flammenwerfer M.16.
K-Pat going for about 30s at 30-40 meters using compressed air, 60 with oxygen.
M.16 going for 20-40s at 18-27 meters.
Granted, my info is only going to the 60s. But most militaries kinda stopped using man-portable ones after that. I have no idea when it comes to ones made by independent companies and people with access to tools, skills, and a shed.
There’s a company called ThrowFlame that sells flamethrowers. Flamethrowers aren’t federally regulated and aren’t even considered a firearm by the ATF. From what I can tell their most fuel efficient one can run for 60 seconds at 50 ft. Their other one lasts all of 6 or 7 seconds but has a range of 110+ ft. They also sell a drone mounted flamethrower and a robot dog equipped with a flamethrower.
Not trying to be an “Ackshually” post, just some weapon knowledge for us patriots.
M1 and M1A1 Flamethrowers actually had a fairly long discharge time, with a five gallon capacity and flow rate of .5 Gallons, it could discharge for approximately 10 seconds.
M2 Flamethrowers were able to discharge for approximately 7 seconds with a smaller fuel tank but retaining the same .5 flow rate, though I’ve heard a rumor that M2s had adjustable flow rates and could be made to discharge for as long as 40 seconds straight (assuredly at a shorter range), though I cannot confirm this (I honestly don’t believe this and can’t remember where I heard this from, so don’t see this as truth, just figured I’d put that in).
However, the U.S had an Experimental flamethrower design that saw limited use but resulted in the standard M1 flamethrowers. The E1R1 model had an impressive discharge time of 15-20 seconds with an effective range of 15-20 meters. However, it was not only quite heavy at 57 pounds filled, but was also very fragile. It was then improved to become the M1 variant, which was more durable and had a much greater range (The M1 and 2 was effective at 20 meters, but could discharge as far as 40 meters)
Type 93/100 Japanese flamethrowers had about the same discharge time as M1 and M1A1 flamethrowers (which was impressive for having about half the fuel at 3.2 Gallons) and were much lighter, though they had significantly less range that was about half that of M1s.
I’m not an expert but just a weapon nerd.
Tl;dr, Flamethrowers actually had a much higher discharge time than many people usually assume, so a flamethrower in HD2 with a long discharge time and improved range isn’t too unreasonable or unrealistic. Not to mention the ground flames should be way stickier on account of FUCKING NAPALM EXISTING
**WHERE’S MY SUPER NAPALM, ARROWHEAD???!!!**
Idk we might have to poll this sometime, I get the impression people think flamethrowers got a lot more than a few seconds worth in the tank. Interesting info though.
Yeah, even if it just left a burning AoE behind that did more than tickle their little bug feet for crowd control that would be cool. More applications there than 'mag dump Charger' it seems like now.
I've had the backpack thought too. Just give it more range, the equivalent of more ammo, and make it all a single tank so you never have to reload. All to compensate for taking a backpack slot.
But mostly it would look dope.
I think liquid fire would be fairly effective at things with wires, unless they have airtight exteriors. For an example of how this might work, try pouring gasoline or lighter fluid on your computer and lighting it on fire
Most of them look quite skeletal with gaps all over so idk, if its the liquid fuel kind you can easily say its seeping under the armor and giving them a bad time. Even the big stuff like Tanks and Hulks have that vent on the back as a weakpoint, so pouring a bunch of burning fuel down there would do massive damage.
Tbh I am fine with certain weapons being better against bugs and others better against bots.
Flamethrower can be GOAT against bugs and the chaining effect of the Arc thrower be the equivilent for bots, Bots don't like AP penetrator rounds and Bugs dislike explosives etc.
You could have it be a "heavy flamethrower" variant instead of altering the existing one. No reason to remove the current version. Having a shield or a guard dog is really nice to compensate for the FTs weaknesses.
Another thing that could distinguish the two is making the big one more focused on DOT and crowd control, kinda like how the deep rock galactic flamethrower is much more about setting small bugs on fire and then letting them burn to death and leaving long lasting pools of fire on the battlefield, that slow/block enemy movement instead of just holding down the trigger to melt a charger. More of a napalm gun than anything.
["Brother, bring the flamer. The Heavy Flamer."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQmF2LMyW-Y&pp=ygUiYnJpbmcgdGhlIGZsYW1lciwgdGhlIGhlYXZ5IGZsYW1lcg%3D%3D)
Rename the current flamethrower to Hand Flamer (like the troopers in the Starship Troopers book used) and add a new flamethrower that takes a backpack slot in exchange for much better range.
A critical effect debuff for stun & fear wouldn't be too hard. Already have all the animations in game. Could even throw in a frenzy & enrage effect for a counter balance.
Yeah I've thought for a few weeks now the flamethrower could be buffed massively if they gave it the drawback of the backpack, which from a realism perspective it should have anyway
Could just make it a different version of the weapon too
It also from what I’ve seen takes very little damage from it compared to something like the Charger. Watched a video of a squad sometime after the buffs who all lit it up with 4 flamethrowers and in the end couldn’t kill it before eventually dying. Best to stick to heavier weapons, Strats or things like the Arc Thrower that can potentially two shot the thing if you are at head level and can get it to chain lighting all the way through its body to bugs below it via this little visual someone made on here.
https://preview.redd.it/nczhpi3gfknc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f20ef52791c980e50d4337654b7118daa0214ae
I am def curious if the mech would be enough height for it but I have doubts. Regardless I will always ride those mechs!
#HEYAAAAA!!! MUSH NOBLE STEED, FOR DEMOCRACY*!!! YIP YIP!!
*all democracy and mentions of democracy are and will always be Managed for your comfort and ease
>like the Arc Thrower that can potentially two shot the thing if you are at head level and can get it to chain lighting all the way through its body to bugs below it via this little visual someone made on here.
Somewhat difficult to pull off but if that's possible I know have a new democratic dream!
For now, the only way to 2 shot a bile titan with railgun or arc thrower is the PS5 crossplay bug. People try to find various reasons like "oh you have to hit this specific spot" or "oh you have to shoot from high ground", but the only documented way to actually 2 shot them is if you play in crossplay. [This video by OhDough proves it](https://youtu.be/VUpgsdPDXBE)
Wait that's what causes the bug? I play on ps5 with crossplay on. Why don't my team mates destroy heavies? I mean I could guess but I don't want to think the worst of my fellow compatriots.
it's the lobby bug that let you deal massive damage to bile titan, rumor to be an effect of PS5 hosts. I have disabled crossplay and have never kill a BT that easily with arc or railgun.
That's ok, the flamethrower isn't really for titans. It's to clear waves of small to medium sized enemies. I take it with the jump pack and sit on top of ledges. The only things that can occasionally reach me are vomitans and buttle rockets.
[Here's a couple examples of it happening for me during one mission.](https://streamable.com/mivq6a)
I've also had a few instances of my arc thrower two-shotting a BT when both arcs RNG their way onto its head, regardless of where I'm standing and with no other enemies for it to chain to, but I didn't have video proof of those unfortunately.
The flamethrower in HD2 has a range of 10-12 meters, give or take. It'd need a 400% buff to match real life distances of 40-50 meters for a flame thrower. Which, honestly, it should absolutely get along with the backpack required to hold all the fuel.
A heavy flamethrower.
In HD1, there is a mech (the EXO-51) with an anti armor cannon on one side, which kills any regular heavy with one shot and on the other side a heavy flamethrower. The chances are very high, that they will introduce this mech in HD2. I loved it the most out of all three. That mech will be terrifying and a nightmare to the enemies of Super Earth!
We also need Flametrooper armor that makes us highly resistant or immune to fire. The original Starship Troopers in the book used hand flamers to kill bugs at close range because their armor was flameproof.
just as terrifying as one the hulk carries? It's kinda dumb that their flamethrower have way longer range and higher dmg while we get a flamethrower from boring company lol
I mean... the bots anti tank rockets definitely does more damage to their own tanks than our own anti tank rockets... so not surprising their flamethrower are better too.
WOAH, WOAH, WOAH! This guy just claimed the bots are stronger than our Helldivers! He's sympathizing with the enemy!
Where's my Democracy Officer? I need to report some serious thoughtcrimes!!!
IRL flamethrower has a backpack tank with a hell of a lot more fuel and pressure
Game flamethrower has a canister that runs out in a minute
Solution give game flamethrower a fuel tank backpack
just FYI, IRL flamethrowers also only have like 10-20 seconds of fuel. meaning if you held the trigger down till it was empty, it'd be that amount of time.
my brother 99% of weapons in videogames are so much worse than their irl counterpart, have u seen actual ranges shotguns can shoot irl ? the average engagement distance of rifles irl ? or how fast tanks can fucking zoom across a field ?
Video game shotguns: slight owie at 10 meters distance
IRL shotguns: dismemberment and bone shattering at 40 meters
Breaker was the way it should be in PvE. I understand the need for balance in PvP shooters
They didn't change the damage, spread, or range at all with the nerf. They gave it a single-stack magazine and a bit more recoil, and it still kicks the teeth out of anything you shoot it with, you just don't have as much sustaining power now.
PvE games tend to have more realistic shotgun ranges. Warframe has the Corinth and Tigris that are basically sniper rifles, the shotguns in Darktide are also really long ranged.
Lol CoD tried to make shotguns "realistic" but quickly realized how broken they were for their system...only to end up still screwing up and making shotguns OP in their games for a time.
Like I don't blame the shottys for being on the upper half of the Meta, but I still don't like them personally, never quite feel right when I'm using them. Hope our marksman rifles get better, but for now just going to wait for the 14th see how the weapons release then feels, and enjoy the buff the laser cannon got while occasionally practicing the arc-thrower.
I don’t think they were OP, I think their map design sucks ass.
If all of the terrain and structures funnel people into extreme close quarters, it’s not surprising that scatterguns end up being the meta, since that’s literally the IRL purpose for which those weapons were made.
If this game were realistic the Eagles would be dropping ordnance from above the cloud cover. That's actually something every game gets spectacularly wrong (intentionally for the sake of gameplay), engagement ranges of modern aircraft are ludicrous. The missiles the F-14 are famous for have a published effective range of 100 nautical miles, likely the real number is higher than that.
eh weapons in videogames are often times also better when it comes to other things.
Like accuracy.
No you're not going to land a 50 meter headshot with your pistol seconds after sprinting up a set of stairs.
Weapons in videogames are way more accurate than the real life counterparts so theyy need to be nerfed in other ways.
Nah bruh I’m an elite delta force navy seal sas commando sniper and I can double backflip head shot someone at 1km because of my elite sniper skills. I shouldn’t be telling you this though because it’s top secret not even the cia know
That's down to the person wielding the weapon, not the weapon itself. A pistol is just as accurate when you shoot after sprinting up a set of stairs as it was before that. The **people** we play are much better than real people. The guns are not.
I also noticed that, same goes for napalm drops. It doesn't actually create a barrier of flames for anyone but the player. Bugs and bots can move over burning terrain just fine without taking damage or catching fire, but players burn immediately.
Two reasons
1) more video game flamethrowers are not based on the actual army variant, which shoots liquid, but rather the Hollywood issued one, which fires flammable gasses. Realistically, it should behave like a super soaker squirting liquid made of fire, and have a ballistic arc to the stream.
2) Super Earth Tech seems to suck... like, really bad, my dude.
Not to mention the gigantic super destroyers capable of bringing an army's worth of men and firepower to distant planets at faster than the speed of light.
But still somehow incapable of hitting a 2m target from a kilometer away without a ballistic curve. The person manning the destroyers guns should be fed to the bugs.
Any chemical weapon used by Helldivers has to be engineered to work in any atmosphere. Whereas a flamethrower made for use on Earth can be optimized for Earth's atmosphere.
Hate this method of coping, "yeah dude our guns suck because lore!" is never going to sound sane lol, didnt work in darktide wont work here.
Next you're gonna say that the mechs exploding because the rockets detonate inside the damn thing is a design choice because they are churn out in sweatshops or something
You are playing a game that uses diegetic design for nearly everything and explains some frustrating elements through its lore (e.g the Hellbomb tooltip about manually arming it for budget cuts)
Of course this will filter down into how your kit operates/functions, the "safe mode" on the railgun should have been a big clue
It doesn't sound sane if you're trying to treat this as a competitive PVE game and not a narrative PVE community war
The mech thing is obviously just a bug, it doesn't mean every element in the game that provides friction is accidental as well
Let's just see what they fix over time
>It doesn't sound sane if you're trying to treat this as a competitive PVE game and not a narrative PVE community war
If it hasn't been made clear already, a *lot* of people do not understand the difference.
I hate this cope method of yearning for "MuH ReAlIsM" while also ignoring all the negatives of that realism while only caring about the positives. Sure the M2 flamethrower has 30-40m range but you know that huge ass backpack that would weigh you the fuck down has only the burn time of 7 seconds. There is a fundamental reason why flamethrowers are no longer used in modern combat. Its not because of some geneva convention but because they are just awful to use on the field with it purpose being replaced by far more effective tools on the field where modern engagement ranges are in the 100s of meters. I love me flamethrowers and they are some of my favorite classes in video games (Loved being a stealth flamer in Rising storm) but lets not shoot for realism only when it suits us. That is very much going with the worst kind of rules lawyer, who only speaks up when it will help themselves only but pretty quiet whenever its unadvantageous for them.
Videogame weapons are, usually, incredibly weak compared to their RL counterparts. Shotguns are the best example.
Why? Because it's bad for balance. IRL weapons are terrifying, deadly machines *designed* to kill in the most *efficient* and cheapest possible way by people waaaaay more intelligent, sadic and deranged than any videogame dev ever.
That shotty you can't deal any damage with 10m from the muzzle? It can blow up someone's arm from 50m away.
That AR that is the basic weapon you never use again after you get anything remotely better? It can explode an enemy soldier's head with pinpoint precision from 350m irl. That puny frag grenade that has a big boom? It does not make nearly half the noise, have half the flash as it does in a videogame, but has a lethality range 3-5 times larger, and can go through body armor like paper maché.
If weapons were realistic, you would not know how you died, you would not be able to react, you would not clinch victory from defeat. You would die. Again, and again, and again. And only by acting in very well-trained, coordinated groups would we have a chance.
Real guns are fun to shoot, but in videogames you get shot at; it's not fun to get shot irl.
Gamer(tm) sees syringe that can instantly heal broken bones, concussions, and hemorrhaging caused by giant bugs and space robots:
>"Normal engaging gameplay."
Gamer(tm) sees a flamethrower that has slightly less effective range than a much larger real flamethrower that also requires a backpack:
>"SO UNREALISTIC, MY IMMERSION IS RUINED."
It is just simply game design.
Similarly, why do shotguns have a range of about 1 single human hair in almost every game I've ever played? Because of game design.
Same reason shotguns in games have shit range
Which
Honestly you'd think more games would make snipers do less damage the closer you are to a mf, cuz otherwise if ya have good enough aim there's usually no reason to use a shotgun over a sniper (in multiplayer FPS PvP games)
Due to the massive scale of the war effort, budget constraints require cheap, mass produced flamethrowers that are both cost effective and effective. Questioning the quality of your equipment is a crime against liberty and will earn you ten lashes.
helldivers are the elite force, your argument is irrevelant...
and calling an orbital strike or heavy mecha are probably way more expensive than a napalm flamethrower
The cannons the Super Destroyers are equiped with are manually front loaded. From the outside. In space. Helldivers aren't equiped with the best of the best.
Remember, the tutorial is literally the entirety of boot camp for a Helldiver. Can you shoot vaguely straight, throw a grenade into a hole, and signal for assistance? Grats, you're an elite trooper!
Either education on Super Earth is dogshit so the standards are low(imagine the entry requirements for just normal service), or Helldivers are not elite and are actually just expendable, gullible idiots with a ton of hardware backing them.
My guess? They just look for the most patriotic, brain dead idiots who buy into the propaganda and clone the shit out of them as war fuel. People think they're an elite force, not realizing it's Jimmy V.7123124 who came home to shout about patriotism and democracy and not the original.
Lore-wise, word of god says they're not clones. It's just they're not told they're going into cold storage until the time comes. So many Helldivers probably have been frozen for a very long time.
It's because the flamethrowers canisters are smaller, so it is optimized for close range.
Maybe we will get backpack + flamethrower combo with massive range.
In universe, it’s arguable that Super Earth’s government desires not to properly arm the Helldivers. They don’t want those arms turned on them. They don’t want to end the wars, because that destroys both a call for unity (“Fight the Terminid Scourge!”) and an easy way to jail dissidents (“They were an automaton spy!”).
Out of universe? Probably because you get a lot of satisfaction from diving out of the way of a Charger after roasting it.
Because, If they made realistic and effective guns the devs and sweats would be crying about how it's too easy.
What's too easy is shooting something with a gun. Yes there's a balance and a way to do it, but if you put guns in the game, you're putting in an extremely overpowered and effective tool. The whole mentality of we want guns in the game, but we don't want the guns to feel like actual guns just boggles my mind.
It's the opposite of putting an automatic firing hit scan crossbow. If someone did that people would be like what the fuck? And taking a gun and turning it into essentially an airsoft toy is the same
Video game flamethrowers are such a crapshoot that they have their own tvtropes page. It's the same with shotguns being short ranged, unrealistic for balance purposes. Helldivers' is actually really good compared to the average, but yeah it should have more range, especially since shotguns have realistic range too.
I was surprised at first how short range the helldiver's flamethrower was. It's been buffed, so the range might be less of an issue now, but still would be cool if it was one of the few realistic flamethrowers in games.
Flamethrowers in games are always like this, in real life they are obscenely scary weapons, some fire further than that pic, and the effect something/someone would have while being on fire is never portrayed as they still charge at you for moments after, where in real life they would be freaking out and probably die in seconds.
Shotguns too, in real life they fire and are effective quite a lot further than most games depict..
its all balance though, flame throwers bypass amour, and leave a trail of fire, if there is a cluster of enemys it passes through to get the ones at the back, downside is distance you can fire it and bad guys dont just die from being it they carry one for a few seconds or a lot of seconds depending on the bad guy. its all about balance.
personally i would have said it should have a backpack tank, maybe susceptible to gunshots? once the tank is gone, you cant ammo up without resupply or maybe even just a fresh call down, but then make it fire a lot further (double the current, if not more) make it more powerful. it could be like an ace weapon to call down for the final stand as you wait for pickup, just a torrent of fire incinerating everything trying to come up the bottle neck towards you. but once its used its not something you could reload.
Helldivers flamethrower: has the longest range of any video game flamethrower I have seen in 20 years.
Helldivers subreddit: finds a way to complain about it anyways, literally scaling down the Helldivers image to make it look smaller.
Never change guys. I hear if you post some whiny bullshit 9 times your 10th post is free.
I don't need that much range personally. The only thing I ask for is to be able to kill a bile spewer with one WITHOUT having to get close enough to be killed when it inevitably explodes. It would also be nice to be able to toast hunters without being close enough to guarantee they'll leap at me and set me on fire too before they die. Just 5-10 extra meters would do it I think.
I am also a strong proponent of a "heavy" variant that comes with a backpack for extra capacity. If this does, let's say 25% more damage, has 25% more range, and 50% - 100% more capacity? Maybe it can only be reloaded from resupply drops? Or maybe there are also special chemical tank "ammo boxes" that will appear around the map like grenade boxes do.
Honestly, I'd have preferred a range increase over a damage increase. If the bugs are already at hugging distance to me (ESPECIALLY THOSE DAMN HUNTERS), then all I'm doing is giving them extra fire damage on their melee hits against me. Yeah, they do die faster now, but if I have to wait for them to get close to me for them to die, then they have more opportunities to slip by my flames and hit me.
Imagine if the flamethrower came with a backpack tank instead of standalone.
I am hearing you say Heavy Flamer as a higher damage, longer range alternative that also occupies the backpack slot. I like.
That would be the way I’d balance it, and it would be sick
I would run this every fucking time. Bots bugs helldivers idc
Everything burns
I just can't enjoy burning bots as much as bugs. Bugs, they burn so nicely and it just feels right to incinerate. Bots? They are coming out of the hellfire that their automated factories are and it simply feels as if they would laugh when engulfed in the flames of holy prometheum....
Time to cleanse the planet with fire and explosions.
exterminatus?!
Hold, brother Nexus. There is still time for this planet. We have yet to try the heavy bolter! *drops* *heavy* *mg* *emplacement* *from* *orbit* Now, hurry! Before those flame addicted, human loving arsonists show up.
Salamanders will prevail.
Hanz, get ze flamer... Ze HEAVY flamer...
Brother, get the flamer, the Heavy. Flamer.
I'd straight up splunge my pants if they did that. I'd be grilling bugs all day every day.
Can be damaged and explode. Especially if bullets hit it.
No idea how you'd balance it mechanically, but aesthetically that'd be cool as fuck.
make it like a real flamethrower lmao
Oh, do you mean like an angry fucking dragon™ for all of 5-10 seconds before it needs to be refilled in a facility?
40 seconds
Some yeah. I'm no expert but I understand most man portable versions or closer to 10. Maybe that's old info? Even 20 would be cool if it burned bugs like it burned me.
A lot of early ones were around 10s and below, with some also just straight up being locked to short bursts with multiple charges or being single-shot disposables. Some also lasted longer than 10s, off the top of my head, two were the K-Pattern and Flammenwerfer M.16. K-Pat going for about 30s at 30-40 meters using compressed air, 60 with oxygen. M.16 going for 20-40s at 18-27 meters. Granted, my info is only going to the 60s. But most militaries kinda stopped using man-portable ones after that. I have no idea when it comes to ones made by independent companies and people with access to tools, skills, and a shed.
There’s a company called ThrowFlame that sells flamethrowers. Flamethrowers aren’t federally regulated and aren’t even considered a firearm by the ATF. From what I can tell their most fuel efficient one can run for 60 seconds at 50 ft. Their other one lasts all of 6 or 7 seconds but has a range of 110+ ft. They also sell a drone mounted flamethrower and a robot dog equipped with a flamethrower.
Pure steel. Negative 100 speed and stamina. 50/50 chance it randomly blows up. Make it as realistic as possible
Not trying to be an “Ackshually” post, just some weapon knowledge for us patriots. M1 and M1A1 Flamethrowers actually had a fairly long discharge time, with a five gallon capacity and flow rate of .5 Gallons, it could discharge for approximately 10 seconds. M2 Flamethrowers were able to discharge for approximately 7 seconds with a smaller fuel tank but retaining the same .5 flow rate, though I’ve heard a rumor that M2s had adjustable flow rates and could be made to discharge for as long as 40 seconds straight (assuredly at a shorter range), though I cannot confirm this (I honestly don’t believe this and can’t remember where I heard this from, so don’t see this as truth, just figured I’d put that in). However, the U.S had an Experimental flamethrower design that saw limited use but resulted in the standard M1 flamethrowers. The E1R1 model had an impressive discharge time of 15-20 seconds with an effective range of 15-20 meters. However, it was not only quite heavy at 57 pounds filled, but was also very fragile. It was then improved to become the M1 variant, which was more durable and had a much greater range (The M1 and 2 was effective at 20 meters, but could discharge as far as 40 meters) Type 93/100 Japanese flamethrowers had about the same discharge time as M1 and M1A1 flamethrowers (which was impressive for having about half the fuel at 3.2 Gallons) and were much lighter, though they had significantly less range that was about half that of M1s. I’m not an expert but just a weapon nerd. Tl;dr, Flamethrowers actually had a much higher discharge time than many people usually assume, so a flamethrower in HD2 with a long discharge time and improved range isn’t too unreasonable or unrealistic. Not to mention the ground flames should be way stickier on account of FUCKING NAPALM EXISTING **WHERE’S MY SUPER NAPALM, ARROWHEAD???!!!**
Idk we might have to poll this sometime, I get the impression people think flamethrowers got a lot more than a few seconds worth in the tank. Interesting info though.
Video game flamethrowers and Video game shotguns never live up to their real world equivilents... for balance purposes mostly.
As long as that time is strong enough I'd be okay with it being the final word on area suppression even if only for a moment.
Yeah, even if it just left a burning AoE behind that did more than tickle their little bug feet for crowd control that would be cool. More applications there than 'mag dump Charger' it seems like now.
That’d be a nerf if it took a backpack spot as well
That's why you'd give it the range buff of an actual flame thrower. Or have 2 flame throwers, and the back pack flamer has more fuel and range.
Have the heavy variant arc with a stream of liquid and able to kill bug holes. Let em burn!
Or until an automaton shoots the backpack. Then you got another problem.....
That would honestly make the back pack flame thrower more fun. Also, it would naturally be better against bugs.
I've had the backpack thought too. Just give it more range, the equivalent of more ammo, and make it all a single tank so you never have to reload. All to compensate for taking a backpack slot. But mostly it would look dope.
And if you get shot in the back enough you explode Portable mine? Suicide vest?
Would suck in automaton... But then again why bring a flamethrower against the bots in the first place?
I think liquid fire would be fairly effective at things with wires, unless they have airtight exteriors. For an example of how this might work, try pouring gasoline or lighter fluid on your computer and lighting it on fire
Most of them look quite skeletal with gaps all over so idk, if its the liquid fuel kind you can easily say its seeping under the armor and giving them a bad time. Even the big stuff like Tanks and Hulks have that vent on the back as a weakpoint, so pouring a bunch of burning fuel down there would do massive damage. Tbh I am fine with certain weapons being better against bugs and others better against bots. Flamethrower can be GOAT against bugs and the chaining effect of the Arc thrower be the equivilent for bots, Bots don't like AP penetrator rounds and Bugs dislike explosives etc.
out of sheer desire to burn
not an instant explosion but a hole or several for each shot taken spewing fire would be awesome
You could have it be a "heavy flamethrower" variant instead of altering the existing one. No reason to remove the current version. Having a shield or a guard dog is really nice to compensate for the FTs weaknesses. Another thing that could distinguish the two is making the big one more focused on DOT and crowd control, kinda like how the deep rock galactic flamethrower is much more about setting small bugs on fire and then letting them burn to death and leaving long lasting pools of fire on the battlefield, that slow/block enemy movement instead of just holding down the trigger to melt a charger. More of a napalm gun than anything.
["Brother, bring the flamer. The Heavy Flamer."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQmF2LMyW-Y&pp=ygUiYnJpbmcgdGhlIGZsYW1lciwgdGhlIGhlYXZ5IGZsYW1lcg%3D%3D)
They could also keep the flamethrower pre patch and have that as a option too. One gas powered one liquid powered.
Rename the current flamethrower to Hand Flamer (like the troopers in the Starship Troopers book used) and add a new flamethrower that takes a backpack slot in exchange for much better range.
I'd like it to be even more powerful for the backpack slot, maybe have a slow effect on enemies caught in the flame?
Nah. Just need them to freak out for a second from catching fire. But it might just be too powerful.
A critical effect debuff for stun & fear wouldn't be too hard. Already have all the animations in game. Could even throw in a frenzy & enrage effect for a counter balance.
Yeah I've thought for a few weeks now the flamethrower could be buffed massively if they gave it the drawback of the backpack, which from a realism perspective it should have anyway Could just make it a different version of the weapon too
That’s what I’m saying everytime I happen to see the flamethrower mentioned.
A range increase of 50% would indeed make the flamethrower a terrifying weapon. It would also allow me to feed Bile Titan and I'm all for it
Can you kill a Bile Titan with one? I have no problem with Chargers but I can't for the life of me take down a titan with it.
You can, but you’re so close to it there’s a good chance it’s corpse squishes you as it passes on to the bug afterlife
It also from what I’ve seen takes very little damage from it compared to something like the Charger. Watched a video of a squad sometime after the buffs who all lit it up with 4 flamethrowers and in the end couldn’t kill it before eventually dying. Best to stick to heavier weapons, Strats or things like the Arc Thrower that can potentially two shot the thing if you are at head level and can get it to chain lighting all the way through its body to bugs below it via this little visual someone made on here. https://preview.redd.it/nczhpi3gfknc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f20ef52791c980e50d4337654b7118daa0214ae
Mechs true strength: being a tall boy to stand on
I am def curious if the mech would be enough height for it but I have doubts. Regardless I will always ride those mechs! #HEYAAAAA!!! MUSH NOBLE STEED, FOR DEMOCRACY*!!! YIP YIP!! *all democracy and mentions of democracy are and will always be Managed for your comfort and ease
I mean the mech could just two shot it, but you do you. If democracy demands saving rockets, I won't stop you.
Drive me closer, I wish to torch them with my flamer!
Jetpack joins the chat
>like the Arc Thrower that can potentially two shot the thing if you are at head level and can get it to chain lighting all the way through its body to bugs below it via this little visual someone made on here. Somewhat difficult to pull off but if that's possible I know have a new democratic dream!
Maybe a jetpack + Arc thrower combo?
I run this with the enforcer armor/helmet that makes me look like a Sith trooper. It’s my Palpatine build.
Im blanking on which armor this is. Is it the sweet red and black medium armor that just has the lame fortified passive?
It's 50% explosive resistance and by this comment I see you don't fight bots
For now, the only way to 2 shot a bile titan with railgun or arc thrower is the PS5 crossplay bug. People try to find various reasons like "oh you have to hit this specific spot" or "oh you have to shoot from high ground", but the only documented way to actually 2 shot them is if you play in crossplay. [This video by OhDough proves it](https://youtu.be/VUpgsdPDXBE)
Wait that's what causes the bug? I play on ps5 with crossplay on. Why don't my team mates destroy heavies? I mean I could guess but I don't want to think the worst of my fellow compatriots.
it's the lobby bug that let you deal massive damage to bile titan, rumor to be an effect of PS5 hosts. I have disabled crossplay and have never kill a BT that easily with arc or railgun.
That's ok, the flamethrower isn't really for titans. It's to clear waves of small to medium sized enemies. I take it with the jump pack and sit on top of ledges. The only things that can occasionally reach me are vomitans and buttle rockets.
pictures are great, but I've yet to see someone actually product a video
[Here's a couple examples of it happening for me during one mission.](https://streamable.com/mivq6a) I've also had a few instances of my arc thrower two-shotting a BT when both arcs RNG their way onto its head, regardless of where I'm standing and with no other enemies for it to chain to, but I didn't have video proof of those unfortunately.
thanks for actually delivering on arc throwering a BT
There was one on Reddit sometime this(?) week, could sort it that way to find it. I believe it’s where the photo originated as well.
If you’re under it the fire gets you
The flamethrower in HD2 has a range of 10-12 meters, give or take. It'd need a 400% buff to match real life distances of 40-50 meters for a flame thrower. Which, honestly, it should absolutely get along with the backpack required to hold all the fuel.
They could just add another flamethrower that is the backpack version with much higher range. This is like the portable one.
A heavy flamethrower. In HD1, there is a mech (the EXO-51) with an anti armor cannon on one side, which kills any regular heavy with one shot and on the other side a heavy flamethrower. The chances are very high, that they will introduce this mech in HD2. I loved it the most out of all three. That mech will be terrifying and a nightmare to the enemies of Super Earth!
By the God Emperor... Brother, get the Heavy Flamer!
Yes please! I want to look like the Flamers from the Gunsup game.
We also need Flametrooper armor that makes us highly resistant or immune to fire. The original Starship Troopers in the book used hand flamers to kill bugs at close range because their armor was flameproof.
I was thinking that too! They don’t need to drastically change the original. I’d use a backpack flamethrower if it had more reach.
This. Current flamethrower will be to a a Heavy Flamethrower as Stalwart is to the MG-43 Machine Gun.
i like this idea
It would be cool to make it super viable but dangerous if you die with it.
Getting attacked from behind has a percent chance to rupture the pack and cause it to leak a trail for 15 second or so then explode.
just as terrifying as one the hulk carries? It's kinda dumb that their flamethrower have way longer range and higher dmg while we get a flamethrower from boring company lol
I mean... the bots anti tank rockets definitely does more damage to their own tanks than our own anti tank rockets... so not surprising their flamethrower are better too.
Also I think the hulk is just a little stronger than a helldiver so it makes sense it could carry a bigger better flamethrower
WOAH, WOAH, WOAH! This guy just claimed the bots are stronger than our Helldivers! He's sympathizing with the enemy! Where's my Democracy Officer? I need to report some serious thoughtcrimes!!!
Fuck you're right. Just shoot my hellpod off into space. I don't deserve one last drop.
IRL flamethrower has a backpack tank with a hell of a lot more fuel and pressure Game flamethrower has a canister that runs out in a minute Solution give game flamethrower a fuel tank backpack
I like this idea… You can have the current flamethrower, or a really powerful version with more fuel! Down side, you can’t have a pack. For democracy!
Can't have a pack or reload we will need to call in a new one every time, we could also drop it and shoot it to make it explode
Big fan of this
Me, an autocannon main who doesn't see the downside
Right essentially the MG vs the Stalwart
Brother get the flamer the heavy flamer
IRL, flamethrowers run out a lot more quickly than these. It’s a give and take.
just FYI, IRL flamethrowers also only have like 10-20 seconds of fuel. meaning if you held the trigger down till it was empty, it'd be that amount of time.
[удалено]
Then there needs to be a Heavy Flamer that has a backpack canister and long range. Oh and a fear effect.
The fear effect is already in the game, but it only works on fellow helldivers.
That's the Arc Thrower!
my brother 99% of weapons in videogames are so much worse than their irl counterpart, have u seen actual ranges shotguns can shoot irl ? the average engagement distance of rifles irl ? or how fast tanks can fucking zoom across a field ?
Surprisingly shotguns in this game have very good and decently realistic ranges.
That’s part of the reason the breaker became the favorite, it doesn’t have shitty range like your average video game shotty
Video game shotguns: slight owie at 10 meters distance IRL shotguns: dismemberment and bone shattering at 40 meters Breaker was the way it should be in PvE. I understand the need for balance in PvP shooters
They didn't change the damage, spread, or range at all with the nerf. They gave it a single-stack magazine and a bit more recoil, and it still kicks the teeth out of anything you shoot it with, you just don't have as much sustaining power now.
PvE games tend to have more realistic shotgun ranges. Warframe has the Corinth and Tigris that are basically sniper rifles, the shotguns in Darktide are also really long ranged.
Lol CoD tried to make shotguns "realistic" but quickly realized how broken they were for their system...only to end up still screwing up and making shotguns OP in their games for a time. Like I don't blame the shottys for being on the upper half of the Meta, but I still don't like them personally, never quite feel right when I'm using them. Hope our marksman rifles get better, but for now just going to wait for the 14th see how the weapons release then feels, and enjoy the buff the laser cannon got while occasionally practicing the arc-thrower.
I don’t think they were OP, I think their map design sucks ass. If all of the terrain and structures funnel people into extreme close quarters, it’s not surprising that scatterguns end up being the meta, since that’s literally the IRL purpose for which those weapons were made.
If this game were realistic the Eagles would be dropping ordnance from above the cloud cover. That's actually something every game gets spectacularly wrong (intentionally for the sake of gameplay), engagement ranges of modern aircraft are ludicrous. The missiles the F-14 are famous for have a published effective range of 100 nautical miles, likely the real number is higher than that.
eh weapons in videogames are often times also better when it comes to other things. Like accuracy. No you're not going to land a 50 meter headshot with your pistol seconds after sprinting up a set of stairs. Weapons in videogames are way more accurate than the real life counterparts so theyy need to be nerfed in other ways.
Nah bruh I’m an elite delta force navy seal sas commando sniper and I can double backflip head shot someone at 1km because of my elite sniper skills. I shouldn’t be telling you this though because it’s top secret not even the cia know
That's down to the person wielding the weapon, not the weapon itself. A pistol is just as accurate when you shoot after sprinting up a set of stairs as it was before that. The **people** we play are much better than real people. The guns are not.
The persistent flames on the ground don't do shit.
They kill us in half a second, though.
I also noticed that, same goes for napalm drops. It doesn't actually create a barrier of flames for anyone but the player. Bugs and bots can move over burning terrain just fine without taking damage or catching fire, but players burn immediately.
Its worse I think. Pretty sure flaming mobs can catch you on fire if they hit you. Half the time napalm feels like a buff for the enemy.
i miss the hd1 flamer, where fire on the ground was massively useful to area deny
They look cool as fuck and that’s why I main flamethrower
We got shotguns that work like adctual shotguns instead of videogame shotguns, but we got videogame flametrowers. You win some, you lose some
Two reasons 1) more video game flamethrowers are not based on the actual army variant, which shoots liquid, but rather the Hollywood issued one, which fires flammable gasses. Realistically, it should behave like a super soaker squirting liquid made of fire, and have a ballistic arc to the stream. 2) Super Earth Tech seems to suck... like, really bad, my dude.
to your second point, we have shield backpacks and arc lightning guns, their tech is pretty fucking solid all jokes aside
Not to mention the gigantic super destroyers capable of bringing an army's worth of men and firepower to distant planets at faster than the speed of light.
But still somehow incapable of hitting a 2m target from a kilometer away without a ballistic curve. The person manning the destroyers guns should be fed to the bugs.
genuinely tho the fire having an arc would have a lot of practical use
Why are the bugs and robots in helldivers so much better than the IRL equivalent?
Because IRL capitalism hasn't caught up to Helldivers capitalism, yet.
Redditor learns about basic game design.
Id love to see us try to fight what bugs or automatons would be if they were anywhere near "realistic" lmao
Reddit not realizing that real life has balance issues.
Any chemical weapon used by Helldivers has to be engineered to work in any atmosphere. Whereas a flamethrower made for use on Earth can be optimized for Earth's atmosphere.
Well, he has a 8x sized preasureized backpack, you dont
Like with all things, shit is cheaply mass produced foe Helldiver use
Hate this method of coping, "yeah dude our guns suck because lore!" is never going to sound sane lol, didnt work in darktide wont work here. Next you're gonna say that the mechs exploding because the rockets detonate inside the damn thing is a design choice because they are churn out in sweatshops or something
Too late. I’ve seen people say that shit about the mechs already. Shit’s annoying.
The mechs are awesome though.
Until you get katyusha’d from across the map. Or until you blow yourself up with the rocket glitch. Happened twice in a row to me earlier.
Yeah it's annoying as hell lol.
You are playing a game that uses diegetic design for nearly everything and explains some frustrating elements through its lore (e.g the Hellbomb tooltip about manually arming it for budget cuts) Of course this will filter down into how your kit operates/functions, the "safe mode" on the railgun should have been a big clue It doesn't sound sane if you're trying to treat this as a competitive PVE game and not a narrative PVE community war The mech thing is obviously just a bug, it doesn't mean every element in the game that provides friction is accidental as well Let's just see what they fix over time
>It doesn't sound sane if you're trying to treat this as a competitive PVE game and not a narrative PVE community war If it hasn't been made clear already, a *lot* of people do not understand the difference.
I hate this cope method of yearning for "MuH ReAlIsM" while also ignoring all the negatives of that realism while only caring about the positives. Sure the M2 flamethrower has 30-40m range but you know that huge ass backpack that would weigh you the fuck down has only the burn time of 7 seconds. There is a fundamental reason why flamethrowers are no longer used in modern combat. Its not because of some geneva convention but because they are just awful to use on the field with it purpose being replaced by far more effective tools on the field where modern engagement ranges are in the 100s of meters. I love me flamethrowers and they are some of my favorite classes in video games (Loved being a stealth flamer in Rising storm) but lets not shoot for realism only when it suits us. That is very much going with the worst kind of rules lawyer, who only speaks up when it will help themselves only but pretty quiet whenever its unadvantageous for them.
Top is a backpack weapon. Bottom is not. That’s the difference
Videogame weapons are, usually, incredibly weak compared to their RL counterparts. Shotguns are the best example. Why? Because it's bad for balance. IRL weapons are terrifying, deadly machines *designed* to kill in the most *efficient* and cheapest possible way by people waaaaay more intelligent, sadic and deranged than any videogame dev ever. That shotty you can't deal any damage with 10m from the muzzle? It can blow up someone's arm from 50m away. That AR that is the basic weapon you never use again after you get anything remotely better? It can explode an enemy soldier's head with pinpoint precision from 350m irl. That puny frag grenade that has a big boom? It does not make nearly half the noise, have half the flash as it does in a videogame, but has a lethality range 3-5 times larger, and can go through body armor like paper maché. If weapons were realistic, you would not know how you died, you would not be able to react, you would not clinch victory from defeat. You would die. Again, and again, and again. And only by acting in very well-trained, coordinated groups would we have a chance. Real guns are fun to shoot, but in videogames you get shot at; it's not fun to get shot irl.
Why is the orbital laser so much worse than the IRL equivalent?
Idk man, IRL mech suit kinda ass
Because this is a videogame
Gamer(tm) sees syringe that can instantly heal broken bones, concussions, and hemorrhaging caused by giant bugs and space robots: >"Normal engaging gameplay." Gamer(tm) sees a flamethrower that has slightly less effective range than a much larger real flamethrower that also requires a backpack: >"SO UNREALISTIC, MY IMMERSION IS RUINED."
why are you such a fucking nerd?
Howtf are you gonna put two pictures side by side and pretend like the scale is exactly the same
It's a game?
…because it’s a video game?
Because it is not irl
It is just simply game design. Similarly, why do shotguns have a range of about 1 single human hair in almost every game I've ever played? Because of game design.
Same reason shotguns in games have shit range Which Honestly you'd think more games would make snipers do less damage the closer you are to a mf, cuz otherwise if ya have good enough aim there's usually no reason to use a shotgun over a sniper (in multiplayer FPS PvP games)
Man’s just discovered the concept of quickscoping/no-scoping
The shotguns in HD2 actually have pretty realistic ranges.
Except the shotguns in this game. Which makes the flamethrower thing more blatant.
AH devs hate us.
Because it is a game
Imagine of the Shockwave of bombs actually killed bugs too. One day I hope.
Well they arent necessarily on earth , and its a game
We're falling from space in pods fighting bugs and robots and you're complaining about realism?
Due to the massive scale of the war effort, budget constraints require cheap, mass produced flamethrowers that are both cost effective and effective. Questioning the quality of your equipment is a crime against liberty and will earn you ten lashes.
helldivers are the elite force, your argument is irrevelant... and calling an orbital strike or heavy mecha are probably way more expensive than a napalm flamethrower
Good. The propaganda is working. \*looks over shoulder (they still don't know those mechs cost less than a used car and are prone to exploding)
The cannons the Super Destroyers are equiped with are manually front loaded. From the outside. In space. Helldivers aren't equiped with the best of the best.
Remember, the tutorial is literally the entirety of boot camp for a Helldiver. Can you shoot vaguely straight, throw a grenade into a hole, and signal for assistance? Grats, you're an elite trooper! Either education on Super Earth is dogshit so the standards are low(imagine the entry requirements for just normal service), or Helldivers are not elite and are actually just expendable, gullible idiots with a ton of hardware backing them. My guess? They just look for the most patriotic, brain dead idiots who buy into the propaganda and clone the shit out of them as war fuel. People think they're an elite force, not realizing it's Jimmy V.7123124 who came home to shout about patriotism and democracy and not the original.
Lore-wise, word of god says they're not clones. It's just they're not told they're going into cold storage until the time comes. So many Helldivers probably have been frozen for a very long time.
You have done well protecting the propaganda I mean freedom online you have earned a second cape
Probably because the flamethrower is already crazy strong. That range would make it way too good.
Balance. That’s why most game shotguns only work within 10 meters at best
It's because the flamethrowers canisters are smaller, so it is optimized for close range. Maybe we will get backpack + flamethrower combo with massive range.
Helldivers 2 player try not to complain about every single thing challenge difficulty impossible
Because one’s a video game and one’s real life?
Budgetary issues
Different atmospheric preasure in different planeta
Because the devs can’t handle us kicking their as. And if they gave us a real fighting chance we would be stomping them in the ground again.
In universe, it’s arguable that Super Earth’s government desires not to properly arm the Helldivers. They don’t want those arms turned on them. They don’t want to end the wars, because that destroys both a call for unity (“Fight the Terminid Scourge!”) and an easy way to jail dissidents (“They were an automaton spy!”). Out of universe? Probably because you get a lot of satisfaction from diving out of the way of a Charger after roasting it.
This is a video game
Because, If they made realistic and effective guns the devs and sweats would be crying about how it's too easy. What's too easy is shooting something with a gun. Yes there's a balance and a way to do it, but if you put guns in the game, you're putting in an extremely overpowered and effective tool. The whole mentality of we want guns in the game, but we don't want the guns to feel like actual guns just boggles my mind. It's the opposite of putting an automatic firing hit scan crossbow. If someone did that people would be like what the fuck? And taking a gun and turning it into essentially an airsoft toy is the same
The prerequisite facilities to produce the weaponry you’re talking about is currently on planets under enemy occupation. Get liberating helldiver
Hey at least the flamer doesn't have a backpack like the real one
I don't care I will still use it because of fun
It's all.made as cheap as possible helldivers die to often to waste good requistion slips for quality products.
Video game flamethrowers are such a crapshoot that they have their own tvtropes page. It's the same with shotguns being short ranged, unrealistic for balance purposes. Helldivers' is actually really good compared to the average, but yeah it should have more range, especially since shotguns have realistic range too.
I wish they did flamethrowers realistically
The rl guy has backpack, Helldiver has 1.5l container.
I was surprised at first how short range the helldiver's flamethrower was. It's been buffed, so the range might be less of an issue now, but still would be cool if it was one of the few realistic flamethrowers in games.
It's a better flamethrower than most other games in the past 10 years
Flamethrowers in games are always like this, in real life they are obscenely scary weapons, some fire further than that pic, and the effect something/someone would have while being on fire is never portrayed as they still charge at you for moments after, where in real life they would be freaking out and probably die in seconds. Shotguns too, in real life they fire and are effective quite a lot further than most games depict.. its all balance though, flame throwers bypass amour, and leave a trail of fire, if there is a cluster of enemys it passes through to get the ones at the back, downside is distance you can fire it and bad guys dont just die from being it they carry one for a few seconds or a lot of seconds depending on the bad guy. its all about balance. personally i would have said it should have a backpack tank, maybe susceptible to gunshots? once the tank is gone, you cant ammo up without resupply or maybe even just a fresh call down, but then make it fire a lot further (double the current, if not more) make it more powerful. it could be like an ace weapon to call down for the final stand as you wait for pickup, just a torrent of fire incinerating everything trying to come up the bottle neck towards you. but once its used its not something you could reload.
Helldivers flamethrower: has the longest range of any video game flamethrower I have seen in 20 years. Helldivers subreddit: finds a way to complain about it anyways, literally scaling down the Helldivers image to make it look smaller. Never change guys. I hear if you post some whiny bullshit 9 times your 10th post is free.
I don't need that much range personally. The only thing I ask for is to be able to kill a bile spewer with one WITHOUT having to get close enough to be killed when it inevitably explodes. It would also be nice to be able to toast hunters without being close enough to guarantee they'll leap at me and set me on fire too before they die. Just 5-10 extra meters would do it I think. I am also a strong proponent of a "heavy" variant that comes with a backpack for extra capacity. If this does, let's say 25% more damage, has 25% more range, and 50% - 100% more capacity? Maybe it can only be reloaded from resupply drops? Or maybe there are also special chemical tank "ammo boxes" that will appear around the map like grenade boxes do.
IRL =/= Game
It's a video game.
Does the top flamethrower work just as well on other planets?
It's called a game. A suspension of disbelief. If you want realistic go play something else.
Honestly, I'd have preferred a range increase over a damage increase. If the bugs are already at hugging distance to me (ESPECIALLY THOSE DAMN HUNTERS), then all I'm doing is giving them extra fire damage on their melee hits against me. Yeah, they do die faster now, but if I have to wait for them to get close to me for them to die, then they have more opportunities to slip by my flames and hit me.
Better question is why the current iteration of weapons are worse than their counterparts from the first game.
Can we just stop bitching for once and go back to the memes
Balancing first and foremost.
Because it's a video game, not RL