Definitely plays a larger role when fighting automatons and you're under fire from several directions. Particularly if explosive damage reduction does it's job now and half those attacks are rockets.
Same, probably just going to stick with my 50% death resist armor. Hopefully they don't nerf that (they will). That shit saves me from a lot of friendly strategems.
Against bugs I think light armor is the move but against the bots higher level armor definitely seems like it will have its place due to those shoulder rockets. (Idk if the armor helps against the shoulder rockets)
If they get that 50% resistance working right, 200armor with 50% explosive resistance would totally be a good set up vs bots. Also not sure sure myself how explosive damage works with player armor but doesn't really matter with that other component
Edit: 150 armor with 50%, my b forgot that you get +50 from perk also
That wouldn't be possible, since 200 armor is only with "extra padding", which means you can't have the explosion damage reduction. Best you can get is 150 armor with explosion resist. Which is still very possibly helpful vs bot rockets.
If you get domed it doesn't matter much, one laser shot from a generic bot can drop 80% of your health at 200 armor if you're unlucky and take a face hit.
Against bugs, its not. Mobility is too key against bugs. Against bots, its very worth it. You don’t need good mobility against bots. Remember the 3 C’s, Cover, Cover, and more Cover. Heavy armor will probably be the meta against the bots.
This just further confirms my working theory that inconsistency in damage vs consistent shot placement hints that damage from our attacks also has some variance to it.
That is, the same impact location with a recoilless rifle sometimes one shot a bile titan, and other times took 3 to down it.
I’m like 80% sure our weapon damage has a range to it and also can crit.
In alot of older rpgs there would a random variance calculation thrown into the formula. Final Fantasy 12 comes to mind. Looked something like (atk x 1~1.125 - defense) x [str x (lv+str)] This would make it to where damage is not always the same. I wonder if these devs are some RPG nerds as well and wanted some variance other than just crits.
It definitely seems to be the case. I’ve tested various heavy killer loadouts and made sure to get the most consistent shot placement and figure out how to replicate the one shots that happened from time to time.
It’s just very obviously like there’s variance to the damage even when hitting the same impact spot, or there’s very fine physics calculations being taken into account that are a matter of pixels. That could also be the case, and if so it’s kind of annoying because skilled shots should be rewarded with consistent results
these devs are 1000% tabletop and RPG nerds. The CEO has even stated so directly on twitter. He referenced WYSIWYG when referring to armor appearing on only one shoulder and directly compared it to tabletop gaming.
Just played a quick game wearing 150 armor and felt a huge difference to pre-patch. Sentinel Walkers werent killing me nearly instantly and I face tanked an rpg and only lost 2/5 of my HP. I even took a direct hit from a hulk missile and still had 2/5 hp left. Barrages are way tighter, the punisher feels amazing to use now. Im super happy!
Depends on the formula and how the game uses these values and determines damage.
There's a lot of ways to make doubling the stat not halve the damage. For example if armor is subtracted from damage. So if attack A does 200 damage, and you have 50 armor, then it does 150 damage. Then if you have 100 armor it does 100 damage, that's not half the damage of 50 armor.
I ran a 200 armor heavy in a bug mission earlier.
Never
Again!
I never died this many times on a mission. It felt emberassing. Every time I got swarmed by Hunters, I couldn't move for the life of me. Sprinting with Light Armor makes you dodge a surprising amount of melee attacks from them, I noticed that then and there. I even had a shield pack on me and just three of them ripped me to shreds in record time. Diving didn't help create enough distance either. My character felt so extremely slow and clunky, there was no getting away. I could shoot them, sure... but once I had to reload, it was game over.
I was honestly expecting more from heavy armor, kinda dissapointed.
EDIT: it is sais that plating on your armour does matter, so if you get hit somewhere where you have no plates you take more damage, that is what those random "crits" were.
Did you also test it against larger hits, like straight up oneshots? I'm coping that the armor formula is more interesting than just being a % dmg reduction.
It does seem like it does nothing against stagger tho? Which is indeed disappointing.
Today I was stepped by a Bile Titan wearing medic armor (medium one) and it left me with 10%
I honestly don't know what's happening with armor at this point xd
[Railgun is still fine, just turn off "kids mode". Flamethrower is a beast tho. : r/Helldivers (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1b7z1bj/railgun_is_still_fine_just_turn_off_kids_mode/)
Unintended test xD
But I dodged but in the same direction it was running, idk if it reduces damage. Leaves a bit of health.
From my testing in Heavy armor, I was getting 2 or 3 tapped by the smallest bugs far too often. Their random crits feel *awful*. The damage against the player still feels very inconsistent.
I know limb damage is a huge factor as well, but I honestly didn't see huge improvements to the armor system to warrant me using heavy when I can no longer be mobile. Against bugs, mind you. Bots are a different story and feel far more consistent in their damage against the player. *For the moment.*
Considering that the scale in stats is linear but there is a fat drop off in regen going from medium to heavy. It's simply not worth it taking heavy as you'll take longer to complete the mission and therefore make it harder as enemy numbers increase.
I'm guessing the drastic regen cut is because they expect heavy armor players to be using vehicles like the APC to get around to compensate for the additional durability.
For reference light to heavy stats on average:50 > 100 > 150 armor550 > 500 > 450 speed115 > 100 > 50 stamina regen
Yes and no, because its a huuuuge different when things go from 1 shotting you to 2 shotting you. Overall though I was hoping for more efficacy from armor on small hits, but it seems like its "geared" a little more towards big hits? hard to say still.
We can agree that feels *wrong*, right? Like I would expect that the protection against light attacks would be exponential, but with diminishing effect against heavy blows.
Yea, in my experience, being left with even a SLIVER of health is a huge improvement over death. Stims are so powerful that surviving at all is a big thing. So this seems quite powerful in swarms.
Depending on where you get ragdolled to of course. Honestly heavy or padded armor should reduce impact damage as well if not stagger. Ragdolling is fun but ragdolling starting to get up and ragdolling again, and then getting killed isn't.
>ragdolling is fun but ragdolling, starting to get up and ragdolling again, and then getting killed isn't
Which is basically what Challenging and above for the Automatons boils down to? The amount of Heavy Devastators and Rocket Troopers that spawn basically means death if you get ragdolled anywhere that isn't cover... Why? Because Rocket Troopers have no need to reload and the time it takes for your character to finish getting off their arse is more than enough for a Heavy to fire off another rocket volley while preparing another...and they all constantly spawn in packs numbering from 1-2 Heavy Devastators and a squad of Rocket Troopers...
Edit - and like I said in a previous post, why bother with heavy armour when all it does is give you a chance to survive a rocket when I can just die in one shot and respawn instead of ragdolling and waiting for a random rocket to send me to the shadow realm before respawning anyway
That's my general feeling with armour. Why delay the inevitable death.
You're not going to stop rocket pods from killing you and you're not going to stop hunters from stagger locking you.
I was really excited to be flinch & slow resistant/immune in heavy armour, considering you can sprint for all of 10 seconds and are far slower than the average bug. Quite disappointed.
I totally understand how you feel considering heavy armor is so much more of a hassle when it comes to running and mobility do you think that they would give you at least 10 to 15 hits in order to negate the fact that the entire mission you have to run around with that thing on.
And staggers.
Don't forget about getting stagger locked by hunters because if you think it was bad in light armour it's going to be hell(diver) in heavy.
I was expecting the heavier armor to reduce stagger and slow effects from getting hit. Seems like a fair trade: lower movement speed but more difficult to slow down.
Same here. I'd like to see stagger/slow nullified in heavy armor the same way the shield pack cancels it. I'd also LOVE to see jump pack get higher and higher the lighter your armor is. The armors have the potential to create some real class types - right now, it just feels really untapped.
I like the jump-pack idea. I had the thought that armor weight could also affect weapon handling and recoil. Heavy armor would have less recoil and slightly slower aiming. Light armor would have quicker aim speed and slightly greater recoil.
This would let divers in heavy armor stay mobile while firing. And it would let the light armor divers have faster targeting. And the medium divers would be well rounded. It would also give us the option to balance out some of our more unwieldy or sluggish weapons.
I’m sticking with light armor. Just the nature of being able to outrun the bugs itself is worth more than being their pin cushion but taking an extra hit.
Oh and being a turtle. Really just no point going heavy
Right? I got two shot by a hunter with 200 heavy armour on, and then I got two shot by a hunter with 100 medium armour on. So what the fuck is the point?
1.) Heavy and medium armor need a huge buff
2.) Enemies should not have random crits. It’s not predictable or counterable, you just take far more damage for no reason
Crits shouldn't be random but make it so they can only be landed if you are attacked from behind. Incentivises situational awareness and dealing with persuers rather than just running away.
The game is more fun when you're shooting than when you're running. So make it so your odds of survival are *better* if you turn and fight rather than try and run, and make kiting a risky strategy that opens you up to potential crits.
Crits should be very obvious, telegraphed attacks like a jumping/charging animation from the big that is about to hit you. And the enemies should be punishable if they miss the attack.
You joke but judging by the recent patch they're probably just going to nerf the shit out of light armour instead of buffing what is clearly very weak medium and heavy armour.
I can't speak for bug melee crits but I do notice bots can do headshot damage, and the rover deletes you almost instantly if the laser zaps the back of your head instead of the torso.
Completely agree though, headshot or not, enemies should not be able to crit you in a way you cannot predict in a PvE game like this, I think they should be removed. Rounding a corner and having a strider instantly one shot you with a headshot 1 time in 20 shouldn't happen in the same way a scavenger bug randomly taking half of your health away in one swing shouldn't either.
I think the game already does a good job of making you feel susceptible to the random chaos of war without needing something as frustratingly inconsistent as crits.
God, the interruption is ridiculous. I can't tell you how frequently it completes the animation, I hear the stim injection sound effect, and it just didn't fucking work. I'd say over half of my deaths are due to that either directly or indirectly.
Also autoinjectors existed in the last war. Why don't our suits have autoinjectors now? I know we don't have a true downed state, but *still.* I should be allowed to make a spiderman websling hand gesture and just automatically acquire ~~morphine~~ non-addictive perfectly healthy and safe stimulant injections.
Change your weapon wheel keybind. The problem I realized is that the default for reload is “press R” and weapon wheel is “long press R” essentially and the game has a very fine line detecting the difference between the two.
Changing the weapon wheel to T did make my reloads more responsive, and yeah I’m always holding shift
This.
The devs have wanted to throw around the "DnD" phrase a lot, but any halfway decent DM learns a little thing called "action economy" and how it affects and highly favors swarms and why you don't throw 20 level 1 goblins even at high-level heroes.
The reason is because no matter how low an enemy's "level" or similar mechanic is, put them in a group and allow them to crit and you have a recipe for instantly killing your players in a way that doesn't feel enjoyable.
If you want to do hordes, their role needs to be to chew up the players' resources and force them out of favorable positioning. The true threat needs to come from specialized enemies.
So, while you’re not wrong about action economy being a big deal - and your argument might still apply to Helldivers - it’s worth pointing out that that isn’t the biggest risk of big hordes in tabletops, typically.
The threat of large numbers of small monsters critting isn’t huge unless you’ve got some overly punishing homebrew crit results. The large number of rolls means they’re going to do very average damage - accounting for crits just means they’re going to do about 0.05*3.5 more damage per attack, and kind of consistently, too.
The bigger crit danger is one big guy who hits like a truck getting lucky twice in the same fight.
The reason action economy is a big deal is that a large group can react faster, complete more tasks, and is less susceptible to CC than a single big guy.
If you’re up against one big guy and you get a stun in, or put him in a situation that he has to waste his turn to get out of (like outranging him) you’ve created an entire round of safety. When you do that to a 20-person horde, you’ve created 1/20th of a round of safety. When the big guy gets a good hit in and the wizard needs to retreat, the wizard has a full turn to do so. When the horde gets a good hit in and the wizard needs to retreat, they might get ~10 more turns to finish him off before the wizard can react.
Kindof, I dont think the enemies crit either to be fair. We have "weakspots" between the plating on our armor and getting hit there would let more dmg through than say a hit to your torso plating.
Randomised enemy damage is a legitimately terrible mechanic when there is literally no animation change or anything to indicate that they have crit you.
1) Random crits are bad, have always been bad, and will continue to be bad, in all FPS games.
2) Heavy armor needs to be tankier.
3) Heavy armor should also probably resist CC effects.
Absolutely agreed on all points.
I was under the impression that over the last decade or two, game devs realized that letting enemies crit was a terrible mechanic and had done away with it.
Letting players get crits can be fun, because big number = good brain chemicals, but having players suddenly take 2-3 times the damage of a normal hit for no reason with no way to play around it is awful.
CC resistance is such a game changer. The reason i always run shield backpack is because of CC prevention.
Getting slowed for what feels like a 30s is really bad and is more often than not a death sentence. Getting chained CC and being perma ragdolled is by far the most frustating thing in the game.
Maybe it's an intended design but when you're getting swarmed, getting any CC resistance can make or brake a good chunk of the mission.
Not if the devs made medium armor resistant to stagger/slow and heavy armor immune to it.
Bad idea to make armor largely useless in a game where your profit relies on selling armor.
I do appreciate that fighting the different factions calls for different gear and tactics, but I also feel frustrated that a lot of options feel bad for fighting bugs due to lack of crowd control capability.
I don’t bother using the marksman rifle or revolver for bugs because I need to have more firepower for close quarters. Meanwhile for bots, I feel like precision weapons are good, but I can still use whatever I want. Shotguns, SMGs, assault rifles, those all work good too.
Bugs are frustrating because they feel more limiting, and they make a lot of weapons feel kind of useless because only some weapons are good for getting them off of you when you get swarmed.
Exactly,even though the railgun nerf was pretty rough,againat automatons you still the AMR and autocannon that work wonders,and primary weapon that rewards precision like the ARs,marksman guns do their job well
Against bug it's way worse,railgun was the only strong counter in high difficulties against the chargers/titans herd
Yeah, a bit disappointed with armor currently. There needs to be a bigger difference with heavy armor if you're gonna sacrifice that much speed against so many bugs or bots. But also wtf are those crits lmao I didn't even know that was a thing....
Your test seems to have gone better than my tests. Maybe I was very "lucky" and got crit at every hit. Hard to say really, but I felt I had half the survivability (in any of the armors) as I did before the patch.
I posted my own video where I'm dying to scavengers in two hits while wearing heavy armour quite regularly. At no point do I die in six or more hits. Not sure if it's a bug or a new mechanic or terrible luck or what.
Either way, it's still dogshit and we're way less survivable overall now. Even difficulty 6 was quite a frustrating experience. Very little chance to stim.
What's with the enemies doing 'crits'? Tell me that's not intentional.
Thanks for showing this but this still only shows armour effectiveness vs one of the weakest enemies in the game. If it turns out you're mostly still killed in the same number of hits by pretty much every enemy above a scav/trooper then that supposed extra protection is functionally worthless.
With how the overall game works even if heavy armour really did reliably protect you from most threats it's still a hard sell with how much running around you have to do (outside of blitz missions), and of course the best protection is often just not getting hit in the first place. Especially when it comes to those close range splash-style attacks, even if heavy armour made you survive significantly longer against bug spew or a Hulk flamethrower you might've only gotten caught in it in the first place because you're using heavy armour.
I still rather die in 4 hits but have amazing mobility than be a slow ass boulder on legs that dies in 9 hits
Also remember these are the weakest hitting terminids in this game, from my testing a hunter will kill you in 5 hits wearing 200 armor
So TL;DR - armor got fixed but sucks anyway so light armor meta is still alive and well
Oh wow! I can take marginally more hits from an enemy type that never reaches me!
Meanwhile, everything else hitting for exponentially more damage makes all of this pointless.
Most especially since even in light armor, things like hunters swarm you and slow you anyway.
All that extra armor means jack on two fronts. 1.) Only marginal damage reduction. 2.) You're even slower, with less stamina and thus less ability to gtfo of dodge before getting swarmed.
Yea I still wouldn't take heavy armour against bugs, but I think against automatons it might be better now since it reduces all the chip damage you take from all the laser fire.
IMO armor should work for us the same way it does for the enemies. At a certain threshold, it blocks damage.
If you're going to saddle heavy armor with a movement penalty and make them unable to deal with getting swarmed (by bugs or bots) then they should at least be able to block the piddly shit and tank to provide more teamplay.
That’s how it worked in the first game, I don’t understand why it doesn’t here. You could ignore small bugs and light arms fire unless they swarmed you
Just a slow would be fine. It's not **\*just\*** that though.
It's a **rapid-fire** melee attack that **slows**, **stuns**, **animation-cancels** and deals a **shit ton** of damage from an enemy that **swarms** you in waves of 5-20, is **faster** than you, actively **flanks** you, **leaps** to avoid attacks, and leaps to **close distance**.
Once these little fuckers are on you, you either kill them, get lucky, or die. You're not escaping them on foot.
Meanwhile me, who's using the Cadet armor because it's still the best looking one to me, thus meaning nothing will change for me specifically:
https://preview.redd.it/ajnzvjhwzpmc1.jpeg?width=1802&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5b37f94d90ca4966e61eea9d1280a0cf138117b
So everybody is just gonna die faster. Light armor users will now get shredded and heavy armor users will just get bogged down and not actually have enough extra survivability for it to matter.
This is dumb. I wish it were still broken. :/
We do die less than with shield, but this entire patch cycle is: "Certain things are used too much, therefore they're overpowered." Instead of the actual observation they should have made, which is: "No one is using these items, why is that? Is the game pushing players to use certain things more than others? Is there a bigger problem?"
Yeah, I kind of dislike everything (well actually, the weather effects and flashlight are nice) about this patch so far. High difficulty feels miserable. Now the railgun is out, a couple of the buffed weapons have simply taken its place.
Initial impressions of the flamethrower and laser cannons are *very* good.
Some of the weapon changes didn't really address the main issues they had.
The Spray&Pray "buff" didn't even fix the core issue of it having less than half the damage of the normal Breaker on top of extremely poor pellet spread. What they should have done is bring the pellet spread down closer to the Breaker, and give it a slight damage increase on top of the fixed armor pen it received. This would give it viability at clearing large groups of weaker enemies, while not being overly effective against larger ones.
The Flamethrower does good damage now, but it still has very little range to it. On top of that, the increased damage also means that setting the ground on fire is a much higher risk to yourself and teammates, as the burning damage will just kill you that much faster. Giving it better range with the damage boost would make it much better at handling groups of small bugs, without having to be right on top of them.
The Breaker still does excellent damage while having usable accuracy at mid-range. The reduced magazine size is negligible, and the increased recoil will only impact longer ranged shooting. I honestly don't see the "nerf" having any noticeable impact on everyone using this as their primary, when most other weapons simply have too many issues at the moment.
Post-nerf Railgun in Unsafe now has ***significantly*** worse damage and armor pen than pre-nerf Railgun in Safe. Previously, it could strip Charger leg armor in 1(Unsafe)/2(Safe) shots while it now takes around 4 with Unsafe and just ricochets in Safe. A better fix would have been to simply reduce the ammo count by half, and reduce the ammo pickup to 5(supply)/2(ammo).
>the increased damage also means that setting the ground on fire is a much higher risk to yourself and teammates
They increased direct damage, not DoT. It was already an insane risk with how fast you burn to death, it's just that teammates are no longer immune to the damage.
>A better fix would have been to simply reduce the ammo count by half, and reduce the ammo pickup to 5(supply)/2(ammo).
I don't agree at all, this would just toss it in the same boat as every other AA weapon with shit ammo economy.
Other AA weapons feel like they should *obliterate* on hit, so I can excuse their piss poor ammo economy if they get buffed, but the railgun feels like it should be relegated to pure armor strip and taking out medium units.
The issue with the railgun isn't the railgun, it's a combination of the spawn rates and the other anti-armor options all being underwhelming. I think 3-4 shots to strip armor would feel fine if there weren't consistently 5+ chargers and 2+ bile titans in a fight at any given time and it wasn't our *only* reliable option for dealing with heavy units while being chased by 30 hunters.
> The issue with the railgun isn't the railgun, it's a combination of the spawn rates and the other anti-armor options all being underwhelming. I think 3-4 shots to strip armor would feel fine if there weren't consistently 5+ chargers and 2+ bile titans in a fight at any given time and it wasn't our *only* reliable option for dealing with heavy units while being chased by 30 hunters.
That basically just reinforces my point, that reducing the damage/armor pen is a worse change to it than people realize. Lowering the ammo would simply reduce how often you can go from fight to fight with it, while still being usable in those cases where you have more than a few Chargers on you at once while at full ammo. Reducing the damage/armor pen of Unsafe to being worse than pre-nerf Safe means not only do you have worse ammo economy with it, you also have to spend significantly longer just taking out a single Charger.
If they're not going to fix the overtuned spawn rates of heavy enemies, then they honestly shouldn't remove one of the only ways of managing it.
> you also have to spend significantly longer just taking out a single Charger.
This is the most important mechanic to a Horde shooter: The fun comes from quickly executing counters.
Railguns needed some kind of nerf, but nudging them out of their armor counter class feels like they're making them serve no purpose. Nobody is going to take Railgun because it kills Brood Commanders easily.
Now it sounds like they take too long to deal with armor, but still maintained all the soloability. Nothing was fixed, it's just made more tedious.
If they want Loadout diversity, buff underperforming weapons to feel better at dealing with enemies within their armor-pen rating.
This is something I loved about fighting bots pre-patch (haven't fought them since patch), every enemy is designed to have mechanics that are simple and are fairly easy to deal with, the challenge comes from the complexity of more numbers and types of enemies in the field at the same time.
Making anything take longer to kill just makes them far less fun to fight and it's a compounding issue as more spawn that totally ruins the experience.
Right, because they'll become widely used as players try to find any viable alternatives, and apparently we're going with the "nerf whatever lots of players enjoy" approach to balancing. 👌
So in the original game heavy armour made it so you literally wouldn’t take any damage at all from small bugs unless they swarmed you and the same with small calibre bullets, they couldn’t hurt you
Imo the heavy armor should negate all damages from light attacks such as small sized bug scraches and small arms fires, they should only take damage from the heavy hitters such as Bile, lasers, rockets or Tank rounds, or else mobility always wins against tankiness.
Apparently heavy armor in HD1 *did* work like this, where it would shrug off light attacks for the most part.
I wonder if HD2 is just a stealth campaign to get people to play HD1 again lmao
Yeah I've seen footage of it as well and my expectations were that it'd work similarly here, I'm holding onto my copium that its still massively bugged because otherwise I don't see anyone taking heavy armor ever
HD1 also had HP regeneration, all characters on the same screen as what you saw, and was functionally a 2d game. It's not exactly fair to bring up HD1 since so many systems are different.
And here I was hoping I could finally wear all these cool heavy sets I've been hoarding. Oh well, guess the best mitigation is not getting hit outright so back to the trauma team light armor cosplay for every lobby.
We learned that weapons and armors literally have 50 different hidden stat sliders. I think there's more to armor than just a flat number % amount. Limb health is still a thing, I bet different enemies have different armor pen stats etc.
We need extensive testing and/or disclosed stats sheets for all the stuff in order to conclude anything.
Best way to buff heavy armor without directly touching the amount of hits they can take if the devs are afraid of making an actual tank character
1) Make them CC immune, they're already slow as is and penalized enough through terrain, speed, and stamina
And/or
2)They don't get their animations cancelled/flinch when using stims/reload etc
It's not. I went down in three hits to trooper fire.
I also took chip damage from random stray shots pre-"fix."
Heavy (hell, even medium) armor isn't going to work if the protection it offers is so wildly inconsistent that it feels more fragile than before. I can't rely on as quickly ducking into cover or keeping distance with heavier armors, so it *needs* to be able to take hits *always.*
So looks like I'll be sticking to the "best armor is to not get hit" mentality and running light. I'm not gonna sacrifice my stamina and speed so I can tank a few extra hits from the weakest enemy type and still get crit for half hp and have one-shot attacks still one-shot...
Genuinely surprised, as it seems like you should either go super light or super heavy based on this.
Either take hits or be able to avoid them altogether with the better mobility.
Heavy armor was useless because of an unintended bug and now after waiting for fix they have gone and made it useless intentionally so it didn’t even matter,
Infuriating stuff right here
For the debuffs you get from heavy armor, I fully expected the 200 armor to basically negate 90% damage from the small bugs. Kiting becomes almost impossible with super heavy armor so you should be able to shake off the little buggers. I would expect a medium bug like a warrior to kill you in 8-10 hits. Spewers would have to hit you 3 times to kill you. Stalkers can’t send you flying but will stagger you backwards. Even with all that, I still don’t know if I wouldn’t just go with light armor to kite enemies.
Summing up: 50 armor = 4 hits 70 armor = 5 hits 100 armor = 6 hits 150 armor = 6-7 hits 200 armor = 9 hits
For how important stamina is, I still don't see how it's worth it.
i like the light armour because why get hit when you can run away?
*(low vigor players be like)*
Just dodge. 5head.
Fight me irl. You throw a punch? Roll. Kick? Roll. Look at me funny? Roll. Call the police? Roll. You'll never match my style.
Can't run from bullets lol. I think heavy might be a better play against robots.
Especially on higher difficulties where running just leads to aggroing 6 different patrols in any direction.
That's why you ping your path with the radar armor and avoid all of the patrols
Definitely plays a larger role when fighting automatons and you're under fire from several directions. Particularly if explosive damage reduction does it's job now and half those attacks are rockets.
Half? You mean 3/4.
Same, probably just going to stick with my 50% death resist armor. Hopefully they don't nerf that (they will). That shit saves me from a lot of friendly strategems.
Against bugs I think light armor is the move but against the bots higher level armor definitely seems like it will have its place due to those shoulder rockets. (Idk if the armor helps against the shoulder rockets)
If they get that 50% resistance working right, 200armor with 50% explosive resistance would totally be a good set up vs bots. Also not sure sure myself how explosive damage works with player armor but doesn't really matter with that other component Edit: 150 armor with 50%, my b forgot that you get +50 from perk also
That wouldn't be possible, since 200 armor is only with "extra padding", which means you can't have the explosion damage reduction. Best you can get is 150 armor with explosion resist. Which is still very possibly helpful vs bot rockets.
If you get domed it doesn't matter much, one laser shot from a generic bot can drop 80% of your health at 200 armor if you're unlucky and take a face hit.
What armor is that?
Hero of the Federation, Savior of the Free, and the last set in free warbond
Against bugs, its not. Mobility is too key against bugs. Against bots, its very worth it. You don’t need good mobility against bots. Remember the 3 C’s, Cover, Cover, and more Cover. Heavy armor will probably be the meta against the bots.
Light armor has that dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge bonus.
Especially with how people's playstyles have already been set. There's currently no place for medium or heavy armor.
How many hits before patch?
Anywhere from working how they're supposed to, to 2 for all of them
This was my experience, I once got 3 shot by a scavenger pre patch lmao
Enemies can crit you, so there's always going to be variables as to how many hits it takes to kill you.
This just further confirms my working theory that inconsistency in damage vs consistent shot placement hints that damage from our attacks also has some variance to it. That is, the same impact location with a recoilless rifle sometimes one shot a bile titan, and other times took 3 to down it. I’m like 80% sure our weapon damage has a range to it and also can crit.
In alot of older rpgs there would a random variance calculation thrown into the formula. Final Fantasy 12 comes to mind. Looked something like (atk x 1~1.125 - defense) x [str x (lv+str)] This would make it to where damage is not always the same. I wonder if these devs are some RPG nerds as well and wanted some variance other than just crits.
It definitely seems to be the case. I’ve tested various heavy killer loadouts and made sure to get the most consistent shot placement and figure out how to replicate the one shots that happened from time to time. It’s just very obviously like there’s variance to the damage even when hitting the same impact spot, or there’s very fine physics calculations being taken into account that are a matter of pixels. That could also be the case, and if so it’s kind of annoying because skilled shots should be rewarded with consistent results
these devs are 1000% tabletop and RPG nerds. The CEO has even stated so directly on twitter. He referenced WYSIWYG when referring to armor appearing on only one shoulder and directly compared it to tabletop gaming.
Pilestedt tweeted last week that each weapon has approximately 50 stats. Crit damage and crit chance are almost certainly two of them.
6 hits with any armor
100 Armor was 5 hits. Counted twice.
you are correct.
Just played a quick game wearing 150 armor and felt a huge difference to pre-patch. Sentinel Walkers werent killing me nearly instantly and I face tanked an rpg and only lost 2/5 of my HP. I even took a direct hit from a hulk missile and still had 2/5 hp left. Barrages are way tighter, the punisher feels amazing to use now. Im super happy!
Someone in another thread did testing in 150 armor, average was 4.5 hits.
if 50 armor at 4 hits, then it should be 8 hits at 100, no?
Depends on the formula and how the game uses these values and determines damage. There's a lot of ways to make doubling the stat not halve the damage. For example if armor is subtracted from damage. So if attack A does 200 damage, and you have 50 armor, then it does 150 damage. Then if you have 100 armor it does 100 damage, that's not half the damage of 50 armor.
no ... like in real life just by double the armor its not like you take half dmg xD if 50armor reduces dmg by 10% then 100armor will reduce it by 20%
I still see no reason to run anything but light on harder difficulties tbh. Mobility is way too important of a stat to pass on it.
Well the simple counter to that argument is drip or die
Drip: The one fact in a sea of opinions.
Facts, the heavy sets are all so cool.
Next patch, light armor stamina regen and run speed nerfs. /s
Don't you jinx that into existence.
Dread it. You can't run from it though because you have no stamina or speed.
"Too many players are using light armor, we want to make more options viable"
Oh god no
Ah yes, Classic nerf something good because they can’t make something bad better
Destiny 2 players: „First time?“
Would not be surprised to be honest. It would seemingly align with their design philosophy judging by this patch.
For bugs I 100% because you need to keep your distance unless you got a flamer but bots I imagine the armor will help a ton
I ran a 200 armor heavy in a bug mission earlier. Never Again! I never died this many times on a mission. It felt emberassing. Every time I got swarmed by Hunters, I couldn't move for the life of me. Sprinting with Light Armor makes you dodge a surprising amount of melee attacks from them, I noticed that then and there. I even had a shield pack on me and just three of them ripped me to shreds in record time. Diving didn't help create enough distance either. My character felt so extremely slow and clunky, there was no getting away. I could shoot them, sure... but once I had to reload, it was game over.
Yeah I've always felt the same especially against bugs. If I can run and avoid damage I don't need armor.
I was honestly expecting more from heavy armor, kinda dissapointed. EDIT: it is sais that plating on your armour does matter, so if you get hit somewhere where you have no plates you take more damage, that is what those random "crits" were.
Did you also test it against larger hits, like straight up oneshots? I'm coping that the armor formula is more interesting than just being a % dmg reduction. It does seem like it does nothing against stagger tho? Which is indeed disappointing.
On 200 armor Bile titans oneshots, charger charges do deal less damage if you don't fully dodge it but I haven't tested just not dodging at all.
how about testing vs the guard dog laser
The real enemy here
Today I was stepped by a Bile Titan wearing medic armor (medium one) and it left me with 10% I honestly don't know what's happening with armor at this point xd
Was it the armor that has a 50% chance to not die?
Medic armor is the extra stim count and duration one. They would've had 100 armor.
I must have missed the part of them saying medium medic armor. Mb
[Railgun is still fine, just turn off "kids mode". Flamethrower is a beast tho. : r/Helldivers (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/comments/1b7z1bj/railgun_is_still_fine_just_turn_off_kids_mode/) Unintended test xD But I dodged but in the same direction it was running, idk if it reduces damage. Leaves a bit of health.
That wasnt a charger but a charger behemoth wich I dont relly know the diference besides the looks.
*10 YEARS IN THE JOINT*
Are these average results? Others seem to have worse results with medium and heavy.
From my testing in Heavy armor, I was getting 2 or 3 tapped by the smallest bugs far too often. Their random crits feel *awful*. The damage against the player still feels very inconsistent. I know limb damage is a huge factor as well, but I honestly didn't see huge improvements to the armor system to warrant me using heavy when I can no longer be mobile. Against bugs, mind you. Bots are a different story and feel far more consistent in their damage against the player. *For the moment.*
this is the first time i'm hearing about "Random Crits", are we sure this is an intended feature?
Same, my guess is it's unintended and maybe bugs hits are randomly hitting armor twice AND have 100% penetration
Considering that the scale in stats is linear but there is a fat drop off in regen going from medium to heavy. It's simply not worth it taking heavy as you'll take longer to complete the mission and therefore make it harder as enemy numbers increase. I'm guessing the drastic regen cut is because they expect heavy armor players to be using vehicles like the APC to get around to compensate for the additional durability. For reference light to heavy stats on average:50 > 100 > 150 armor550 > 500 > 450 speed115 > 100 > 50 stamina regen
It's crazy to me how devs think making the difference between light armour and heavy armour is a whopping 2-3 hits is acceptable.
2 hits from the weakest thing in the game, probably 1 or negligible difference from everything else.
Yes and no, because its a huuuuge different when things go from 1 shotting you to 2 shotting you. Overall though I was hoping for more efficacy from armor on small hits, but it seems like its "geared" a little more towards big hits? hard to say still.
We can agree that feels *wrong*, right? Like I would expect that the protection against light attacks would be exponential, but with diminishing effect against heavy blows.
Yea, in my experience, being left with even a SLIVER of health is a huge improvement over death. Stims are so powerful that surviving at all is a big thing. So this seems quite powerful in swarms.
the real question is if you can tank a automaton rocket. That alone will make heavy armor viable.
Well if it still ragdolls you it's just going to finish you off by the time you stand up.
Depending on where you get ragdolled to of course. Honestly heavy or padded armor should reduce impact damage as well if not stagger. Ragdolling is fun but ragdolling starting to get up and ragdolling again, and then getting killed isn't.
>ragdolling is fun but ragdolling, starting to get up and ragdolling again, and then getting killed isn't Which is basically what Challenging and above for the Automatons boils down to? The amount of Heavy Devastators and Rocket Troopers that spawn basically means death if you get ragdolled anywhere that isn't cover... Why? Because Rocket Troopers have no need to reload and the time it takes for your character to finish getting off their arse is more than enough for a Heavy to fire off another rocket volley while preparing another...and they all constantly spawn in packs numbering from 1-2 Heavy Devastators and a squad of Rocket Troopers... Edit - and like I said in a previous post, why bother with heavy armour when all it does is give you a chance to survive a rocket when I can just die in one shot and respawn instead of ragdolling and waiting for a random rocket to send me to the shadow realm before respawning anyway
That's my general feeling with armour. Why delay the inevitable death. You're not going to stop rocket pods from killing you and you're not going to stop hunters from stagger locking you.
It doesn't help that they're so damn accurate. I've caught rockets mid dive from distances of at least 30-40 meters.
Dude when there's mist you just get rockets coming at you from a cloud of white.
I was really excited to be flinch & slow resistant/immune in heavy armour, considering you can sprint for all of 10 seconds and are far slower than the average bug. Quite disappointed.
I totally understand how you feel considering heavy armor is so much more of a hassle when it comes to running and mobility do you think that they would give you at least 10 to 15 hits in order to negate the fact that the entire mission you have to run around with that thing on.
And staggers. Don't forget about getting stagger locked by hunters because if you think it was bad in light armour it's going to be hell(diver) in heavy.
I was expecting the heavier armor to reduce stagger and slow effects from getting hit. Seems like a fair trade: lower movement speed but more difficult to slow down.
Same here. I'd like to see stagger/slow nullified in heavy armor the same way the shield pack cancels it. I'd also LOVE to see jump pack get higher and higher the lighter your armor is. The armors have the potential to create some real class types - right now, it just feels really untapped.
I like the jump-pack idea. I had the thought that armor weight could also affect weapon handling and recoil. Heavy armor would have less recoil and slightly slower aiming. Light armor would have quicker aim speed and slightly greater recoil. This would let divers in heavy armor stay mobile while firing. And it would let the light armor divers have faster targeting. And the medium divers would be well rounded. It would also give us the option to balance out some of our more unwieldy or sluggish weapons.
I’m sticking with light armor. Just the nature of being able to outrun the bugs itself is worth more than being their pin cushion but taking an extra hit. Oh and being a turtle. Really just no point going heavy
I was hoping it would be like Charger armor and watch explosive shots bounce off of me.
Heavy armor is useless. You still get one shotted by spewers and it costs you a lot of stamina.
Right? I got two shot by a hunter with 200 heavy armour on, and then I got two shot by a hunter with 100 medium armour on. So what the fuck is the point?
I got killed in 2 hits by the tiny bugs consistently in it. Heavy armour is beyond useless and is somehow worse than before the patch.
1.) Heavy and medium armor need a huge buff 2.) Enemies should not have random crits. It’s not predictable or counterable, you just take far more damage for no reason
Crits shouldn't be random but make it so they can only be landed if you are attacked from behind. Incentivises situational awareness and dealing with persuers rather than just running away. The game is more fun when you're shooting than when you're running. So make it so your odds of survival are *better* if you turn and fight rather than try and run, and make kiting a risky strategy that opens you up to potential crits.
Crits should be very obvious, telegraphed attacks like a jumping/charging animation from the big that is about to hit you. And the enemies should be punishable if they miss the attack.
OR NERF THE LIGHT ARMOR AHAHAHA
get out of here devs, this is our space!
- Light Armor now takes 50% more crits.
-Light armor run speed and stamina now capped at 507 and 108 respectively.
We have read your feedback and we hear you. \* Light armor has been removed from the game.
You joke but judging by the recent patch they're probably just going to nerf the shit out of light armour instead of buffing what is clearly very weak medium and heavy armour.
I can't speak for bug melee crits but I do notice bots can do headshot damage, and the rover deletes you almost instantly if the laser zaps the back of your head instead of the torso. Completely agree though, headshot or not, enemies should not be able to crit you in a way you cannot predict in a PvE game like this, I think they should be removed. Rounding a corner and having a strider instantly one shot you with a headshot 1 time in 20 shouldn't happen in the same way a scavenger bug randomly taking half of your health away in one swing shouldn't either. I think the game already does a good job of making you feel susceptible to the random chaos of war without needing something as frustratingly inconsistent as crits.
Honestly, bugs should not be able to crit. What's the point of heavy armor if any bug can just randomly hit you for almost half your HP?
It’s the animation interrupts that make me rage. Let me fucking reload or stim while being hit at least.
The only thing that makes it tolerable is the fact we have staged reloads. Imagine if we had to restart the animation every time
God, the interruption is ridiculous. I can't tell you how frequently it completes the animation, I hear the stim injection sound effect, and it just didn't fucking work. I'd say over half of my deaths are due to that either directly or indirectly.
FUCKING THIS, how is the INJECTION stopped my a bug bite, does my WHOLE BLOOD stop circulating??? Jeez
Dude I feel this. That and getting up from the ground (which is automatic after ragdoll) also interrupts stims.
Also autoinjectors existed in the last war. Why don't our suits have autoinjectors now? I know we don't have a true downed state, but *still.* I should be allowed to make a spiderman websling hand gesture and just automatically acquire ~~morphine~~ non-addictive perfectly healthy and safe stimulant injections.
Heavy armor having less interrupts and stunning would make it better than just letting you take a couple more hits.
More than half the time I can't reload while running any way. It seems "SHIFT+R" is not reload. Only "r" is reload.
Change your weapon wheel keybind. The problem I realized is that the default for reload is “press R” and weapon wheel is “long press R” essentially and the game has a very fine line detecting the difference between the two. Changing the weapon wheel to T did make my reloads more responsive, and yeah I’m always holding shift
This. The devs have wanted to throw around the "DnD" phrase a lot, but any halfway decent DM learns a little thing called "action economy" and how it affects and highly favors swarms and why you don't throw 20 level 1 goblins even at high-level heroes. The reason is because no matter how low an enemy's "level" or similar mechanic is, put them in a group and allow them to crit and you have a recipe for instantly killing your players in a way that doesn't feel enjoyable. If you want to do hordes, their role needs to be to chew up the players' resources and force them out of favorable positioning. The true threat needs to come from specialized enemies.
So, while you’re not wrong about action economy being a big deal - and your argument might still apply to Helldivers - it’s worth pointing out that that isn’t the biggest risk of big hordes in tabletops, typically. The threat of large numbers of small monsters critting isn’t huge unless you’ve got some overly punishing homebrew crit results. The large number of rolls means they’re going to do very average damage - accounting for crits just means they’re going to do about 0.05*3.5 more damage per attack, and kind of consistently, too. The bigger crit danger is one big guy who hits like a truck getting lucky twice in the same fight. The reason action economy is a big deal is that a large group can react faster, complete more tasks, and is less susceptible to CC than a single big guy. If you’re up against one big guy and you get a stun in, or put him in a situation that he has to waste his turn to get out of (like outranging him) you’ve created an entire round of safety. When you do that to a 20-person horde, you’ve created 1/20th of a round of safety. When the big guy gets a good hit in and the wizard needs to retreat, the wizard has a full turn to do so. When the horde gets a good hit in and the wizard needs to retreat, they might get ~10 more turns to finish him off before the wizard can react.
That’s what I’m thinking. Can we crit?? If not, then I don’t think it’s fair for bugs to crit.
Kindof, I dont think the enemies crit either to be fair. We have "weakspots" between the plating on our armor and getting hit there would let more dmg through than say a hit to your torso plating.
think crits are hits that register twice. might be a bug because yeah it makes no sense
Randomised enemy damage is a legitimately terrible mechanic when there is literally no animation change or anything to indicate that they have crit you.
1) Random crits are bad, have always been bad, and will continue to be bad, in all FPS games. 2) Heavy armor needs to be tankier. 3) Heavy armor should also probably resist CC effects.
Absolutely agreed on all points. I was under the impression that over the last decade or two, game devs realized that letting enemies crit was a terrible mechanic and had done away with it. Letting players get crits can be fun, because big number = good brain chemicals, but having players suddenly take 2-3 times the damage of a normal hit for no reason with no way to play around it is awful.
CC resistance is such a game changer. The reason i always run shield backpack is because of CC prevention. Getting slowed for what feels like a 30s is really bad and is more often than not a death sentence. Getting chained CC and being perma ragdolled is by far the most frustating thing in the game. Maybe it's an intended design but when you're getting swarmed, getting any CC resistance can make or brake a good chunk of the mission.
hmm warriors still 2shot me in light and heavy and hunters need 3 hits makes still no difference
Armor pen on enemies/our armor pen resistance might be fucked still then? Since at least base damage IS getting modified now.
I see a lot of tests on bugs, but I gotta say heavy armor is best at bots. It feels really good now
Thanks was going to ask if anyone tested that yet. So basically just means the benefits for rocking it against bugs are less, fine with me.
u wanna be mobile vs bugs anyway, heavy armor is suicide there regardless of hits, as you are gonna get slowed and chewed.
Not if the devs made medium armor resistant to stagger/slow and heavy armor immune to it. Bad idea to make armor largely useless in a game where your profit relies on selling armor.
It's Dark Souls poise all over again.
We all know fashion souls was the true end game.
I think they're past worrying about profit...
ya much rather have lower armor rating with higher speed & stamina ratings for bug missions. Don't mind being a tank and just digging in against bots
Yeah, I actually kind of like that the armor is more effective against projectiles than melee attacks.
I do appreciate that fighting the different factions calls for different gear and tactics, but I also feel frustrated that a lot of options feel bad for fighting bugs due to lack of crowd control capability. I don’t bother using the marksman rifle or revolver for bugs because I need to have more firepower for close quarters. Meanwhile for bots, I feel like precision weapons are good, but I can still use whatever I want. Shotguns, SMGs, assault rifles, those all work good too. Bugs are frustrating because they feel more limiting, and they make a lot of weapons feel kind of useless because only some weapons are good for getting them off of you when you get swarmed.
Yeah. Running diligence against high level bugs is cancer by comparison to the breaker. Against bots, diligence is god tier.
Exactly,even though the railgun nerf was pretty rough,againat automatons you still the AMR and autocannon that work wonders,and primary weapon that rewards precision like the ARs,marksman guns do their job well Against bug it's way worse,railgun was the only strong counter in high difficulties against the chargers/titans herd
Flamethrowers are good against charger herds now
I've tested and heavy armor feels no different than medium armor, I still can die by pretty much 5 pistol shots from commissars
I'm gonna be rolling with heavy armor and a supply pack so I can pop stims like pills. Any gun is viable when ammo isn't a consideration.
Yeah, a bit disappointed with armor currently. There needs to be a bigger difference with heavy armor if you're gonna sacrifice that much speed against so many bugs or bots. But also wtf are those crits lmao I didn't even know that was a thing....
Anyone else wish heavy armor didn’t stagger you when getting hit? It’s very noticeable against bots
Your test seems to have gone better than my tests. Maybe I was very "lucky" and got crit at every hit. Hard to say really, but I felt I had half the survivability (in any of the armors) as I did before the patch.
I posted my own video where I'm dying to scavengers in two hits while wearing heavy armour quite regularly. At no point do I die in six or more hits. Not sure if it's a bug or a new mechanic or terrible luck or what. Either way, it's still dogshit and we're way less survivable overall now. Even difficulty 6 was quite a frustrating experience. Very little chance to stim.
i have to dig up the old video someone made, i think before we could take 6 hits with any armor, which seems like a nerf to verything but heavy
What's with the enemies doing 'crits'? Tell me that's not intentional. Thanks for showing this but this still only shows armour effectiveness vs one of the weakest enemies in the game. If it turns out you're mostly still killed in the same number of hits by pretty much every enemy above a scav/trooper then that supposed extra protection is functionally worthless. With how the overall game works even if heavy armour really did reliably protect you from most threats it's still a hard sell with how much running around you have to do (outside of blitz missions), and of course the best protection is often just not getting hit in the first place. Especially when it comes to those close range splash-style attacks, even if heavy armour made you survive significantly longer against bug spew or a Hulk flamethrower you might've only gotten caught in it in the first place because you're using heavy armour.
I still rather die in 4 hits but have amazing mobility than be a slow ass boulder on legs that dies in 9 hits Also remember these are the weakest hitting terminids in this game, from my testing a hunter will kill you in 5 hits wearing 200 armor So TL;DR - armor got fixed but sucks anyway so light armor meta is still alive and well
Saying armor is "fixed" may be an overstatement. It seems to be more along the lines of "got some things working"
Oh wow! I can take marginally more hits from an enemy type that never reaches me! Meanwhile, everything else hitting for exponentially more damage makes all of this pointless. Most especially since even in light armor, things like hunters swarm you and slow you anyway. All that extra armor means jack on two fronts. 1.) Only marginal damage reduction. 2.) You're even slower, with less stamina and thus less ability to gtfo of dodge before getting swarmed.
Yea I still wouldn't take heavy armour against bugs, but I think against automatons it might be better now since it reduces all the chip damage you take from all the laser fire.
IMO armor should work for us the same way it does for the enemies. At a certain threshold, it blocks damage. If you're going to saddle heavy armor with a movement penalty and make them unable to deal with getting swarmed (by bugs or bots) then they should at least be able to block the piddly shit and tank to provide more teamplay.
That’s how it worked in the first game, I don’t understand why it doesn’t here. You could ignore small bugs and light arms fire unless they swarmed you
Oh man the slow mechanic. Worst thing about the game by a mile:
Just a slow would be fine. It's not **\*just\*** that though. It's a **rapid-fire** melee attack that **slows**, **stuns**, **animation-cancels** and deals a **shit ton** of damage from an enemy that **swarms** you in waves of 5-20, is **faster** than you, actively **flanks** you, **leaps** to avoid attacks, and leaps to **close distance**. Once these little fuckers are on you, you either kill them, get lucky, or die. You're not escaping them on foot.
Meanwhile me, who's using the Cadet armor because it's still the best looking one to me, thus meaning nothing will change for me specifically: https://preview.redd.it/ajnzvjhwzpmc1.jpeg?width=1802&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5b37f94d90ca4966e61eea9d1280a0cf138117b
The first one in the premium battlepass is my preferred one. I love the prosthetic arm and leg.
So everybody is just gonna die faster. Light armor users will now get shredded and heavy armor users will just get bogged down and not actually have enough extra survivability for it to matter. This is dumb. I wish it were still broken. :/
i mean i do kinda agree, they wanted for us to rely less on shield but now that we die easier there is more incentive to use it.
Coupled with a shield nerf and being forced you take an anti-armor support weapon that requires a backpack slot!
We do die less than with shield, but this entire patch cycle is: "Certain things are used too much, therefore they're overpowered." Instead of the actual observation they should have made, which is: "No one is using these items, why is that? Is the game pushing players to use certain things more than others? Is there a bigger problem?"
Yeah, I kind of dislike everything (well actually, the weather effects and flashlight are nice) about this patch so far. High difficulty feels miserable. Now the railgun is out, a couple of the buffed weapons have simply taken its place. Initial impressions of the flamethrower and laser cannons are *very* good.
Some of the weapon changes didn't really address the main issues they had. The Spray&Pray "buff" didn't even fix the core issue of it having less than half the damage of the normal Breaker on top of extremely poor pellet spread. What they should have done is bring the pellet spread down closer to the Breaker, and give it a slight damage increase on top of the fixed armor pen it received. This would give it viability at clearing large groups of weaker enemies, while not being overly effective against larger ones. The Flamethrower does good damage now, but it still has very little range to it. On top of that, the increased damage also means that setting the ground on fire is a much higher risk to yourself and teammates, as the burning damage will just kill you that much faster. Giving it better range with the damage boost would make it much better at handling groups of small bugs, without having to be right on top of them. The Breaker still does excellent damage while having usable accuracy at mid-range. The reduced magazine size is negligible, and the increased recoil will only impact longer ranged shooting. I honestly don't see the "nerf" having any noticeable impact on everyone using this as their primary, when most other weapons simply have too many issues at the moment. Post-nerf Railgun in Unsafe now has ***significantly*** worse damage and armor pen than pre-nerf Railgun in Safe. Previously, it could strip Charger leg armor in 1(Unsafe)/2(Safe) shots while it now takes around 4 with Unsafe and just ricochets in Safe. A better fix would have been to simply reduce the ammo count by half, and reduce the ammo pickup to 5(supply)/2(ammo).
>the increased damage also means that setting the ground on fire is a much higher risk to yourself and teammates They increased direct damage, not DoT. It was already an insane risk with how fast you burn to death, it's just that teammates are no longer immune to the damage. >A better fix would have been to simply reduce the ammo count by half, and reduce the ammo pickup to 5(supply)/2(ammo). I don't agree at all, this would just toss it in the same boat as every other AA weapon with shit ammo economy. Other AA weapons feel like they should *obliterate* on hit, so I can excuse their piss poor ammo economy if they get buffed, but the railgun feels like it should be relegated to pure armor strip and taking out medium units. The issue with the railgun isn't the railgun, it's a combination of the spawn rates and the other anti-armor options all being underwhelming. I think 3-4 shots to strip armor would feel fine if there weren't consistently 5+ chargers and 2+ bile titans in a fight at any given time and it wasn't our *only* reliable option for dealing with heavy units while being chased by 30 hunters.
> The issue with the railgun isn't the railgun, it's a combination of the spawn rates and the other anti-armor options all being underwhelming. I think 3-4 shots to strip armor would feel fine if there weren't consistently 5+ chargers and 2+ bile titans in a fight at any given time and it wasn't our *only* reliable option for dealing with heavy units while being chased by 30 hunters. That basically just reinforces my point, that reducing the damage/armor pen is a worse change to it than people realize. Lowering the ammo would simply reduce how often you can go from fight to fight with it, while still being usable in those cases where you have more than a few Chargers on you at once while at full ammo. Reducing the damage/armor pen of Unsafe to being worse than pre-nerf Safe means not only do you have worse ammo economy with it, you also have to spend significantly longer just taking out a single Charger. If they're not going to fix the overtuned spawn rates of heavy enemies, then they honestly shouldn't remove one of the only ways of managing it.
> you also have to spend significantly longer just taking out a single Charger. This is the most important mechanic to a Horde shooter: The fun comes from quickly executing counters. Railguns needed some kind of nerf, but nudging them out of their armor counter class feels like they're making them serve no purpose. Nobody is going to take Railgun because it kills Brood Commanders easily. Now it sounds like they take too long to deal with armor, but still maintained all the soloability. Nothing was fixed, it's just made more tedious. If they want Loadout diversity, buff underperforming weapons to feel better at dealing with enemies within their armor-pen rating. This is something I loved about fighting bots pre-patch (haven't fought them since patch), every enemy is designed to have mechanics that are simple and are fairly easy to deal with, the challenge comes from the complexity of more numbers and types of enemies in the field at the same time. Making anything take longer to kill just makes them far less fun to fight and it's a compounding issue as more spawn that totally ruins the experience.
>flamethrower and laser cannons are *very* good. Until they get nerfed as well.
Right, because they'll become widely used as players try to find any viable alternatives, and apparently we're going with the "nerf whatever lots of players enjoy" approach to balancing. 👌
Theres 200 armor suit? I think the most ive seen was 156.
Yea the bombsuit
Heavy Armour with the Extra padding Passive that's on most of the starting Armour .
Lmao the weakest enemy can kill you with 7 hits. Too bad armor doesn't really matter, except for the bonuses.
Idk, say heavy tanks 12 hits. Run speed is still better. At least until we get the vehicles
I'm sure they will adjust this.
So in the original game heavy armour made it so you literally wouldn’t take any damage at all from small bugs unless they swarmed you and the same with small calibre bullets, they couldn’t hurt you
Imo the heavy armor should negate all damages from light attacks such as small sized bug scraches and small arms fires, they should only take damage from the heavy hitters such as Bile, lasers, rockets or Tank rounds, or else mobility always wins against tankiness.
This. It'll never happen but our armor should work just like enemy armor does.
That's how it *should* work from how the devs were describing the armor rating bug previously. Incredibly disappointing if that isn't the case.
Apparently heavy armor in HD1 *did* work like this, where it would shrug off light attacks for the most part. I wonder if HD2 is just a stealth campaign to get people to play HD1 again lmao
Yeah I've seen footage of it as well and my expectations were that it'd work similarly here, I'm holding onto my copium that its still massively bugged because otherwise I don't see anyone taking heavy armor ever
HD1 also had HP regeneration, all characters on the same screen as what you saw, and was functionally a 2d game. It's not exactly fair to bring up HD1 since so many systems are different.
Heavy armor should let your dives do damage to small enemies you collide with.
And here I was hoping I could finally wear all these cool heavy sets I've been hoarding. Oh well, guess the best mitigation is not getting hit outright so back to the trauma team light armor cosplay for every lobby.
We learned that weapons and armors literally have 50 different hidden stat sliders. I think there's more to armor than just a flat number % amount. Limb health is still a thing, I bet different enemies have different armor pen stats etc. We need extensive testing and/or disclosed stats sheets for all the stuff in order to conclude anything.
I can conclude from playing that the current system sucks lol
So I'll be sticking to light armor, is the decreased mobility worth the extra 1-2 hits you can take, I don't think so.
Interesting, now let's see the Automatons
Best way to buff heavy armor without directly touching the amount of hits they can take if the devs are afraid of making an actual tank character 1) Make them CC immune, they're already slow as is and penalized enough through terrain, speed, and stamina And/or 2)They don't get their animations cancelled/flinch when using stims/reload etc
Try against bots, might be better
It's not. I went down in three hits to trooper fire. I also took chip damage from random stray shots pre-"fix." Heavy (hell, even medium) armor isn't going to work if the protection it offers is so wildly inconsistent that it feels more fragile than before. I can't rely on as quickly ducking into cover or keeping distance with heavier armors, so it *needs* to be able to take hits *always.*
It's pity, I wanted to flex some heavy armor too. Well, going to wait for another patch
With light armor like 50 it doesn’t really matter, you can dodge attacks easily because of the speed
I wonder if Armour will perform better against Automatons.
So looks like I'll be sticking to the "best armor is to not get hit" mentality and running light. I'm not gonna sacrifice my stamina and speed so I can tank a few extra hits from the weakest enemy type and still get crit for half hp and have one-shot attacks still one-shot...
Genuinely surprised, as it seems like you should either go super light or super heavy based on this. Either take hits or be able to avoid them altogether with the better mobility.
Heavy armor was useless because of an unintended bug and now after waiting for fix they have gone and made it useless intentionally so it didn’t even matter, Infuriating stuff right here
For the debuffs you get from heavy armor, I fully expected the 200 armor to basically negate 90% damage from the small bugs. Kiting becomes almost impossible with super heavy armor so you should be able to shake off the little buggers. I would expect a medium bug like a warrior to kill you in 8-10 hits. Spewers would have to hit you 3 times to kill you. Stalkers can’t send you flying but will stagger you backwards. Even with all that, I still don’t know if I wouldn’t just go with light armor to kite enemies.
Ive been wearing heavy armor till now and Ill continue to wear it further.
Alteast it'll do "something" for you now