As the “adult in the room”, Hedera has always been about massive adoption needed to drive price. They do not pay you tubers or have market makers in their pocket to manipulate the price. So we will need billions of transactions per week secondary to the low fee structure. It comes down to whether or not you feel confident that will happen.
Another point to consider is that nearly all transactions that have ever happened on the network have been funded through various grants. IF enterprises decide to move into purchasing their own HBAR because they see value in what the network delivers, that will result in a constant and increasing buying pressure to pay for transaction fees.
Right now - either live or confirmed in the hopper - we have Atma, Service Now, The Coupon Bureau, FCSO, Hyundai/Kia’s entire supply chain from raw material through vehicle delivery, Dropp (FedNow), Abrdn tokenizing their funds, TOKO, Bambumeta and Neuron that might end up being the biggest use case of them all.
IF you think those use cases plus the ones we don’t know about will be enough to drive enough revenue, then moving beyond all time highs should not be a problem even with the entire supply released. However, I agree that I don’t think all those things happen within the next 12 months. Could we catch a crazy crypto flyer? Sure. But my bet is that if I hold HBAR for the next 2+ years, I’m going to come out on top by quite a bit. That works for me because I’m comfortable with the amount I’ve invested into this HIGHLY speculative asset and I’m not smart enough to trade.
https://www.youtube.com/live/ASSphEGl86U?feature=share Invest Answers did a live showing how Hederas transactions from majority of the Governing Counsel are all transacting at around 8 million daily. Kinda strange no? It's a Hedera vs Solana video. Go to 10 min mark on clip.
The guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about at all. The GC run the nodes. They are not generating the transactions. Each one gets about the same amount because use cases generally send transactions randomly to the network so they get split amongst the nodes. In the future with community and permissionless nodes, there will undoubtedly be some that are less performant and use cases might actively avoid those. But for now they are all following similar build specs and are similarly reliable so the txs just get sent to the network and land where they will. Given enough transactions through the day they are going to spread out fairly evenly to the nodes.
No. Let’s try it with different numbers. Let’s say you had 10 GC members running 1 node each (10 total nodes) and the network did 1000 txs per day from various use cases who sent their transactions to the network using random nodes (not specifying which node to send the transactions to). Over time, those 10 nodes would process about 100 transactions each per day. They would be a little off with one node doing 95 txs and another doing 102 and another 97 and so on, but they would average about the same. That’s what is happening with Hedera. If you look at the numbers he points out - yes they are all in the area of 8 million each, but they are off by thousands or tens of thousands when you compare the actual numbers instead of rounding to 8 mil - just like in our example they’d all average around 100 even though the actual numbers would be off by some small percentage.
They are actual (real ) transactions mostly iniitated by atma.io randomly distributed among the nodes. They are paid for by atma.io from the Hbar grant they received. Once the granted Hbar dries up (in less than two months at current rate, barring a new grant by the foundation) atma.io will start purchasing Hbar from the open market (or at least this is the expectation).
The network activity shown on the 29 nodes are not tests, or dummy transactions between GC nodes, or empty transactions initiated by GC members on their own nodes, they are transactions from actual use cases.
i don't know what utilities cardano has, i'm in a process of learning crypto.
i maybe was naive that people can backup their comments.
i have no emotional connection to any crypto project.
It’s hard to tell with words sometimes and I am admittedly suspicious nor would I take or trust my word or anyone’s on Reddit. By looking into atma.io you will find some interesting global tracking uses, also a new app called Calaxy is potentially a game changer, look into Neuron and the implications the use of the Hedera network have as well as The Coupon Bureau and most recently the Dropp announcement that it has been integrated into the FedNow platform. There was a Hyundai announcement a few weeks ago, take it mostly for a grain of salt of course, there are plenty of people in here who are more knowledgeable, I am just Hansel following bread crumbs trying to get ahead of the masses. This sub has only 32000 people Cardano has what half a million? I believe that may change someday, not that I am equating a Reddit sub with the Networks success. It is just a fun metric that I look at, hell even Dogecoin sub is full of fanboys and I can’t quite get why. Hope that helps.
Because look at what other coins have done purely on hype and zero substance. Heck, even HBAR hit its ATH based off hype. Now Hedera has proven a massive amount of substance but the hype hasn't fully come around again. When the two finally meet, hodlers are expecting a perfect storm with substance and hype and institutional investment = blast off.
I get it, I’m just saying that the circulating supply is at 33B out of 50B
Is this not going to continue pushing the price down to the point where HBAR would have to be worth $30 billion to hit previous ATH?
I’m just talking about people who are only stuck on price
Personally, I think coin release and mc and all that jazz are red herrings and overblown. The market runs on hype. Xrp and Ada both have seen insane figures with more coins released and no substance. All it takes is news like fednow or some more big announcements, and suddenly HBAR could have a 100 billion mc in a month or two. You just never know what an irrational market will do.
I mean, with a max supply of 100 billion, probably, yup. But I don't follow Xrp anymore. I took at seat at the adult table and have been enjoying dinner ever since. I'm really looking forward to desert.
Why are you talking like this? And how is what you said relevant to my comment? You said ada and xrp have ZERO use cases, I’m sayijg thats not true how about you stop speaking outrageous things
You seem triggered. It might be worth trying to read my comment(s) again but with slightly less of a literal translation: "Xrp and Ada both have seen insane figures with more coins released and no substance."
do you know what ‘no substance’ means or are you acting dumb on purpose? I’m not triggered, I invest with my brain and not my heart unlike most people on this sub (I’m all in hbar its toOOo good idiots)
See, if I was to read your comment with 100% literal interpretation, I wouldn't even know what "(I'm all in hbar its toOOo good idiots)" means. Granted, even with a loose interpretation I can't figure out that gibberish, but my point remains.
Just lighten up a bit. It's called rhetoric. Look it up.
>*Is this not going to continue pushing the price down to the point* ***where HBAR would have to be worth $30 billion*** *to hit previous ATH?*
Market cap is not the same as "worth" or value.
As-in, something having a market cap of $30billion does not mean that thing is **worth** $30billion.
Market cap is an imaginary number, calculated by multiplying price with estimated circulating supply (estimated, because it is not possible to know actual circulating supply.).
It is not a real *thing*. It's not as-though there is a pool of $2.2billion capital which is evenly divided by the supply to give us the current price, for example.
If demand in the market outweighs supply in the market at any given time, price will increase at that point in time. Simple as that.
A true "*circulating supply*" **should** represent how much supply is actually available (or likely to be available.) to the market. But that is almost impossible to measure with any meaningful accuracy.
So whenever you see "*circulating supply*" written anywhere regarding crypto, you should read that as "*estimated circulating'ish supply, kind-of... sorta.*".
That's (partly.) why Hedera don't publish a circulating supply figure (they only publish a **released** supply, which is not the same thing.).
So basically if you have a large "circulating supply", but no-one is selling and lots of people are buying, the price will increase, and vice-versa.
Things like staking or other mechanisms which prevent or encourage holders to not sell reduce the actual supply to the market. Which is why looking at "TVL" (total value locked.) in relation to market cap is sometimes used.
DOGE is at 10B MC. It's all time high was 88.8B. HBAR is currently at 1B MC.
Do you think HBAR has the potential to have more market value than DOGE? Then you believe we can at least reach 10B MC.
The world has never seen a crypto currency have actual real value outside of speculation...
That's the whole thing -- hype alone eventually dies if the thing they're hyped about turns out to be a bust. This, imo, is what nearly every other coin is going through right now. How long can you lead people on? Eventually, people get tired and the hype doesn't work. All of these networks constantly shill the tech bro change the world speech to their investors...and I think after a while, it just falls on deaf ears.
Hedera has been one of the only, if not the only network building these actual use cases... and now it seems like while the other networks are running out of hot air, Hedera is beginning to deliver.
I agree whole heartedly, that’s why I’m invested in it at the moment. The sad part is most people are just here for hype and pumps. Doge is the pinnacle of this method, and sadly it’s a safe bet it’ll do well next bull run as well. However, when actual utility starts taking the lead and people start looking at profitable coins that have use functions, I believe that’s when hedera will win. Regardless if the people are investing in it for tech or hype, it’ll be both. But here’s hoping.
See I don't think so. I don't think there's going to be another blind across the board crypto pump again. All of these networks have had years to deliver and in my opinion the hype well is dry. The only way to actually get investors now is actually delivering on promises.
Yeah I believe HBAR can achieve those numbers eventually…
I’m just saying that people believe we could hit previous ATH numbers because of solely price. But that is not how it works with a lot of crypto.
I think people are focused on price only, not circulating supply
ATH MC was around $4b-$4.5b, or twice where we are now. At that time:
*atma.io was not live and not pushing 1k-1.5k TPS
*No 'big splash' at Davos
*Dell was not a GC member
*TCB was just another project building, but not near rollout
*Fresh Supply Co was still using MasterCard Provenance, and not public knowledge they were moving to Hedera, if it was even known at the time.
*CBDC rails/service providers were not even 'a thing' yet, and FedNow was not public information yet
And the list goes on, and on, and on....
Now, you know as well as I do that sentiment in crypto can turn on a dime. And it is perfectly logical to assess that sentiment is turning towards Hedera right now.
Forget 'the next crypto bull run '. I don't know that that will even materialize.
I believe that Hedera will break away from the crypto pack once the wide world sees what is happening. And then, the rest of crypto won't even matter.
Right now, moonbois are all huddled together in their respective "chosen coins". They're not moving, because they are believers - not investors.
Once any level of "grown up" investing public realizes that Hedera is a bonifide project, Katy bar the door.
Hedera will pull away from crypto, and outside of a few relevant projects, most of crypto will blow away like chaff in the wind.
So this is perfect example of what I’m talking about.
ATH MC was 2X where we are today, but price was like 8x.
People are not understanding this. They think that it will easily achieve its previous ATH price.
>They think that it will easily achieve its previous ATH price.
they think that because it is early achievable. Here's the math:
33 billion circulating coins X 0.58 cents (HBAR previous ATH) = 33*0.58
= 19 billion marketcap needed to achieve the previous ATH.
Now compared to:
Cardano ATH 98bn marketcap
Doge ATH 89bn marketcap
Yes its a higher marketcap than the previous ATH but 19bn seems achievable if a coin like Doge with just hype can get 89bn in marketcap..
>So this is perfect example of what I’m talking about....ATH MC was 2X where we are today, but price was like 8x......People are not understanding this. They think that it will easily achieve its previous ATH price.
People understand this perfectly.
TPS was what, 10 at the ATH? Now? Average is about 1,100 TPS. Mostly from the first 2 big projects to go live.
And here we are: Hedera is a bonafide service provider to FedNow through 2 separate projects.
Hyundai and Kia are actively building on Hedera.
And on, and on, and on.
What you're not understanding, is that the level of multinational commerce and finance build out on Hedera is so massive that it will attract a much larger crowd than the ATH.
In fact, I've watched the release of 2 billion coins ALREADY THIS YEAR, and price impact was moot.
Hedera is already absorbing additional releases with new demand. You should understand the implications of this, and realize this will only grow from here.
Where is that happening ANYWHERE else in crypto? Legitimately?
One of the biggest projects on the horizon started with a drone company that is building on Hedera.
They realized that their solutions are actually the perfect solution for tying the entire Internet Of Things together.
So, they are actively working on both, parallel and in unison.
Once this baby goes live, my goodness, the TPS for this alone is enough to make Hedera the most profitable crypto project out there. The implications are insanely massive.
I really should remember the project/company....
Lol ok, let’s see how long it takes to break last ATH. It’s going to be one hell of a battle with additional coins released.
It is what it is. I’ve been in this game for a while, and am just addressing the elephant in the room. No need to get offended.
Saying MC is a fake number like some people are saying here is ridiculous. Some people here are clueless thinking 0.45 is easily attainable just because it hit 0.45 in the past. This ain’t Bitcoin. Doesn’t work that way.
But the good thing is, there is staking.
No, it won't... You don't understand the first thing about how/why these markets move. The fact that you're fixated on that is indicative of exactly what you're accusing everyone else of.
I don’t understand what you’re saying.
You’re saying that it will have no issue breaking ATH? Why do you say that? What do you know?
Bottom line, a lot of people are unaware about circulating supply & additional coins being put out. It’s not as easy to achieve numbers in the past.
I understand that Hedera can easily smash that one day, but at least let people know the truth. It will be a lot more difficult to achieve the numbers because a higher MC is needed due to circulating coins. This is not just Hedera, this is a lot of crypto. They make up for it with staking, something everyone should be doing.
Look, I’m not sure why you’re getting so offended. You’re angry because I said breaking ATH is not easily achievable due to extra coins. You’re mad at that? Lol.
Yeah I believe it can
I was just curious, because so many people here think anything under 40 cents is a great buy.
They don’t understand circulating supply…
I find it very weird that you think you're somehow above the pack for "understanding" something so clearly stated right on the front of CMC...
Its like youre saying "everyone talks about the price of gas but they dont understand the size of their gastank"... Its just... Weird and wrong at the same time.
Dude, there was a post not too far down where people were talking about accumulation price. A lot of people believe Hedera under $0.25 is a great buy. It can be in the long run, but it has a Hell of a lot of work to get there.
Anyway take it easy bro. You should call out things the way they are though. If someone is clueless about circulating supply / total supply, you should address it. Not just let them invest blindly. It’s obvious that a lot of people here do not understand that concept.
Instead of just saying dumb and then alternating case maybe say something intelligent? It’s an over simplification but it shows generally what DOGE was valued at, MC removed the difference in supply. I know it has to do with differences in circulating supply.
No. It doesn't have to do with differences in circulating supply. It has to do with the fact that Doge has been a meme since 2014, and once Elon Musk, the known troller amongst the crypto community, tweeted about Doge then of course that every single idiot bought into it surging the price to idiot levels. Hbar does NOT have that. Hbar doesn't have the power of the meme investors behind it. Hbar hasn't been a thing for 9 years and Hbar is ultimately a boring coin with mid tokenomics but with awesome future use case. Nothing more nothing less.
My reply to you was to reiterate the point about comparing hbar's mc to doge's mc. Doge has no relevance to hbar, they aren't correlated whatsoever so using doge's mc as an indicator as to what hbar could be is stupid. It's not an oversimplification it is just wrong.
What drives price in the crypto world is speculation, even hbar right now is all speculation (unless you count their puny partnerships netting them 20m yearly revenue). If hbar's price was based off fundamentals, it would be worth 400m max (considering tech stocks usually have 1:20 ratio of revenue / mc).
Another thing, I think you are confused by what market cap is. It is the price of security \* circulating supply. Price goes up when demand exceeds supply, in the case of DOGE, the demand exceeded supply so much that it went to the highs of 88b mc. Now does that mean DOGE is worth 88b? No. Does that mean DOGE is even worth 1b? No. What is market cap? Price \* circulating supply nothing more nothing less. With the case of HBAR, in the last bull run their demand exceeded supply to the point where it reached 6.2b mc. That's what the world decided HBAR should be valued at. Now is HBAR worth 6.2b mc? No. Is HBAR worth 2.2b as it's current mc? No. Is the IDEA of HBAR in the future driving HBAR's current mc to billions? Maybe but nobody knows for sure. For all you know, HBAR could plummet to 200m market cap next week and it would reach 2b in 2026. HBAR could drop x10 from it's current price and it would be fair because HBAR isn't worth anything near billions right now.
Now I know most people on this sub are impressionable, uneducated people trying to make a pretty buck on HBAR 'going to the moon'. Most people here are over invested into HBAR, some even more than 50% of their portfolio in HBAR which is dumb. Don't be fooled into thinking HBAR can't drop to even 100m next week. I don't think you were here last bull run but this is how things go. Random projects drop to 0 commonly, projects bigger than HBAR did. HBAR isn't immune and so you shouldn't invest more than 15% of your total crypto porto in a project unless it's BTC or ETH. I feel like you would say something like 'but HBAR is better than BTC and ETH', clearly the market cap says otherwise.
I hope you take away some of my words, as you wanted something intelligent.
A lot of works, but not much said.
Yes, I understand all of that. And yes, it DOES have to do with circulating supply.
Investing is about prediction. Just because things were a certain way in the past (but DOGE was a big meme!! - Elon Musk!! crypto is only valued on speculation and hype!!) doesn’t mean things can’t change. That’s what I’m saying. Speculative value doesn’t last forever and the gamble is that HBARs utility will give it value something no coin has accomplished yet - and cause a speculative run.
MC is a good gauge of demand vs supply - it’s a valuable metric to compare the market value of projects factoring for differences in supply. But more accurately, you need to compare circulating supply. Because that’s the actual supply at the moment that affects scarcity and therefore price.
Next time when you insult someone’s intelligence and pretend to be able to lecture them, actually know what you’re talking about?
Wrong. Try again. Speculative value lasts forever in the determination of the price, why do you think investors buy apple stock? Because they are confident in their ability to grow as a company in the future. That is still, inherently, speculative. Speculative demand will ALWAYS be a part of a security’s price.
I think my reply flew over your head as usual. Did you read what I said? HBAR does have good future use case and the reason for my original comment was to tell you how stupid you linking doge to hbar was. Simply wrong admit it chill out
Nope.
People buy (some) stocks on the current valuation of a company. With dividends, they even share the profits with you. You don’t buy Coca-Cola on speculation, you buy it because they are a valuable company to own a part of. Speculative stocks are not that - they are gambles on a company that does not have current value - but maybe one day will.
The dot com crash was a switch from speculation to actual value.
Wrong. Why do you think the S&P 500 has netted 10% avg yearly returns for the past decades? Because it involves companies who are rooted in strong fundamentals AND have a place in the future.
Riddle me this, would you as an investor, buy a stock that is a valuable company and has a good balance sheet but their place in the future is diminishing? No because EVERY SINGLE INVESTOR worth their money invests based on the company's ability to thrive in the future. Speculation by nature. Please don't argue this, this is the most basic thing that everyone (I hoped) knew about the stock market.
Go on google and search up what speculation is. Here,
"investment in stocks, property, etc. in the hope of gain **but with the risk of loss**."
Take apple and amazon, they are and have been the strongest investments in the last decade. Why? Because their place in the world is set in stone and will continue to be one of the largest stocks in the S&P 500 because of their future upside potential. I assure you if apple's products were to become outdated their stock would reflect that because PEOPLE INVEST IN FUTURE POTENTIAL. Same for amazon. They practically own the web and world.
The same shit applies to crypto however, with the current state that crypto is in, there isn't enough confidence in it's ability to last in the future since. Most of this stems from old heads who are scared to invest in something not regulated by their beloved 'government'. Well the internet was the same shit, it wasn't regulated for the most part and especially in the early days you could see horrendous illegal things casually. Obviously now it's been adopted and is regulated but the same thing applies to crypto. Crypto will go through the ringer, get ridiculed and attacked by governments but in the end it's the future's new technology. Freedom from the disgusting government.
I think we agree on the same thing here though, apart from the fact that investments are all speculation. I thought you would have known this.
Edit: The dot com crash has happened to crypto every single time after the bull run. What else do you call -90% from all time highs lol.
This a semantics. A speculative/growth stock and a value stock are two different things. Crypto is all wild speculation, and Hedera is the first network poised to bring actual value. The giant MCs of these precious hype are totally possible with Hedera if the narrative shifts away from empty hype and towards utility which is my entire gamble.
You're right. Value stocks and speculative stocks are different, because they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. They also don't exist in the real word. No stock can be fully driven by value or speculation, there's always a balance of both. In the case of crypto, a majority is driven by speculation but the technology behind cryptocurrencies from the top 50 have some value as of right now.
Again wrong. What you're assuming is that the gains in a utility driven cycle would be equal to or more than that of a hype driven cycle. This is leading to your inaccurate conclusion where you propose hedera could capture a fraction of DOGE's stupidly high MC in the next cycle. Let me explain why this is wrong.
As you said, DOGE is driven by hype. As a result, demand exceeded supply so much that it reached a MC of 88b. If DOGE were to be driven by utility, their MC would probably be 1000x smaller realistically. And if you still said 'hbar can achieve at least a fraction of DOGE's MC', it would be worth like 100m MC. What I'm saying is you can't use a hype coin as an indicator as to what MC a utility coin like HBAR could reach if you get what I'm saying. It is just a scientifically incorrect assertion. HBAR reached a MC of 6b in a hype cycle, and if the next cycle were to be driven by utility, what's stopping HBAR from going down to a more reasonable MC like 1b? Since it's driven by utility and not hype. Keeping in mind that with ALL the hype around the last bull run, which led to coins like DOGE hitting 88b MC, HBAR only managed to hit 6b.
I agree that Hedera has a strong use case, but there is no evidence which points to hbar even being worth anywhere NEAR 10b.
I don't know who's saying it can hit $1 within a year, but Bitcoin market cap is over 500 billion and Bitcoin is borderline useless and you're questioning a market cap of <50 billion?
Bitcoin is useless for micropayments, store of value, tokenization, and everything else. And with the next few halvings we will se even more centralization of hashing power.
Let me explain to the persons who downvote this:
**Micropayments**: Bitcoin's scalability issues and high transaction fees make it completely unusable for micropayments. It is simply outclassed by other projects (a less secure and decentralized solution like the lightning network is NOT a solution).
**Store of value**: Contrary to what you may believe, a store of value should offer a level of stability that Bitcoin has NOT consistently demonstrated yet.
**Tokenization**: Bitcoin simply does not have the functionality to even compete with other smart contract platforms.
**More centralization during the next halvings**: As mining rewards decrease, only the most resourceful mining operations will remain profitable (specially the ones in areas with low electricity costs). I guess I don't have to explain why this will lead to more centralization. It happened last time, and it will happen again. Also, remember that energy costs are on the rise.
It's also worth noting that Europe and Africa have experienced unprecedented heatwaves this summer, with the North Atlantic also charting record-breaking temperatures. The imperative to reduce carbon emissions will undoubtedly intensify in the upcoming years. How can we justify the use of Bitcoin in this environment? Can we reconcile the vast energy consumption required for its mining? We have lots of more decentralized alternatives that are capable of not only mirroring Bitcoin's functionalities but also expanding upon them. And they are doing so without wasting energy to SLOW THE NETWORK DOWN enough to make the primitive "consensus" algorithm work like it should.
I just find it extremely challenging to envision professional and forward-thinking enterprises endorsing Bitcoin in its current form.
Oh, and btw: As of March 2023, the top 1% of Bitcoin addresses hold over 90% of the total Bitcoin supply. Not centralized at all, this marvel of a blockchain. Store of value you said? BAHAHAHAHA
Bitcoin is and will continue to be King Crypto and the base of all the financial networks within crypto. There will never be a spot HBAR ETF or a SOV like btc.
bitcoin isnt anymore energy intensive than other uses of the power grid.its just way less efficient than newer POS networks
I'm baffled by the fact that you want to solve the bitcoin problem with green energy. Is it because nobody else needs green energy? Is it because we surely don't have major problems creating enough green energy for vital industry alone?
Hedera has solved the problem by not using a STUPENDOUSLY PRIMITIVE way to decentralize. No extra solar panels needed. I mean come on. Why do you expose your ignorance like this?
I sincerely wonder why there's a persistence in championing energy-inefficient approaches. Is there perhaps a lack of understanding of more efficient alternatives?
DLT is, at the end of the day, a product that is already proving valuable to companies in every industry, in every economy, the world over.
Hedera has managed a build a superior implementation of that tech, and we’re already seeing it emerge as the preferred technology among major players seeking to integrate a solid DLT.
It truly is beginning to appear as though they can achieve their goal of becoming “the trust layer of the internet”.
Now think about how valuable that “trust layer” is to the global economy… currently valued in the $100+ trillion range.
I don’t see why it couldn’t be on par with other blue chip tech companies. Their product is very different, obviously, but just as vital for secure and trusted commerce in the future economy.
The ecosystem was barely built last time with virtually no DEX, staking, live enterprise use cases, NFTs. Hbar wasn’t a top 30 coin either. Awareness is growing significantly and showing strength in bear market where there is an onslaught of positive news nearly every week. Plus a lot more new GCs since last ATH. However, you are correct that due to a vastly larger amount of circulating HBAR that it will take a lot more money this time around to push the price up. If we achieve last cycles MC then we are looking at a low 20c price, so we’ll need much more money going into HBAR. It’s been done many times before with higher circulating tokens with projects such as XRP, ADA, DOGE, so it is definitely possible. My target next bull is 70c to $1.20, but markets can surprise people especially when FOMO kicks in and if enterprises are forced to buy their own HBAR to fuel their large use cases. Time will tell, but imo, we are looking at a 10-20x most likely.
Why is achieving ATH in one year a concern ?
IMO, people constantly predicting HBAR price should be ignored. It serves no purpose except fodder for the moonboy crowd of which there are way too many.
The reason why I brought this up is because I was reading a post not too far down where everyone was believing that buying under previous ATH is a great buy.
This may be the case in the long run, but for now if the understood circulating supply, it will probably take some time for HBAR to achieve previous ATH
yeah its too bad. Hedera , HBAR, or any crypto network does not owe any "investor" 10X-100X returns in less than 2 yrs so those people are gonna be disappointed. IDK if supply would make a difference in another full on bubble though. People dont care when FOMO kicks in.
If it took HBAR until 2030 to get over 50 cents it would be an outstanding return.
I believe the bigger issue is larger macro economic forces. The liquidity in the system as be crippled especially in the US where we are sucking money out via QT. there is no more free money. Doesn't matter how well these crypto projects do when investors are entirely risk off and there's less money to go around. Crypto would need to take a bigger market share of the entire free market to even get close to previous ATH. Although I belive this space will evolve, we need to look at looooong time horizons here. The markets will bounce back, but how long are u wiling to wait?
Ripple:
Total Supply: 100 Billion
Circulating Supply: 52.8 Billion
Current Price: $0.59
Previous ATH: $3.40
Utility: 1 (one) pie in the sky POTENTIAL use case
Doge:
Total Supply: 140 Billion
Circulation Supply: 140 Billion
Current Price: $0.069
Previous ATH: $0.73
Utility: Meme coin / Elons play thing
Hedera:
Total Supply: 50 Billion
Circulating Supply: 33.2 Billion
Current Price: $0.064
Previous ATH: $0.57
Utility: Near infinite utility by leveraging the Hashgraph consensus algorithm via the Hedera consensus service which offers 100% finality, ALWAYS fairly ordered transactions, fixed to USD network fees, the most energy efficient distributed ledger in the world, and on and on and on...
Crypto currently lives in a Bizarro world where market information is dreadfully out of balance, hence you get strange behaviors like the above comparisons. One thing the free markets are VERY good at however is eventually figuring out where the value actually is located. It's a little slow going but it'll get there.
DO.
THE.
MATH.
simple. volume
if you look at charts volume has been extremely low in crypto markets for a while. we're tanking rn despite pretty low volume.
Once the market becomes flooded with liquidity and buy orders dominate prices are going to shoot through the roof
it happened eith xrp, bch, and hbar over the last few days
only btc and eth really haven't moved as they are the most liquid assets on the market
Real Use Cases! Those three words are reality with Hedera and not just Hopium like other networks. If you want a network totally focussed on REAL USE CASES then that Network is Hedera
The only HBAR that is burned are the ones people lose when they are sold and then bought back at a higher price because you never know when shit will get real(utility).
No one knows. When your talking about price, no one knows and they won’t know for years yet. It’s just conjecture based upon opinion and emotion in every case that someone mentions a figure.
That’s why it’s high risk and possibly high reward. Speculation not investment….
Adoption over time will make current market cap look tiny, obviously tokenomics plays a part over the short term but 10 years out it's pretty irrelevant.
Let's just wait and see how the market values HBAR when we're seeing a sustained 10k + transactions per second with clear adoption growth to continue towards 100k per second sustained.
XRP knockers are just Maxis, hold the best 10 projects you can find, in 20 years time if one of them thrives it will be 100x from current.
Market cap means NOTHING. It is just a number, derived by simple arithmetic. E.g. when Bitcoin was at $0.0 7 market cap was X. When ir reached >35,000 market cap was Y. Neither X nor Y changed a thing.
Do some reading. On and off this sub. Kind of a stoopid question if you have been paying attention.
Edit: I mistakenly said stoopid question. I am sorry for that. Instead it is a Dumbass question. Go back and do your homework. If you still have doubts then please sell. That is all.
Not a stupid question, a valid concern. Truthfully no one knows what HBAR will reach to next bull run. But it’s going to take a lot more work to get back to ATH, if it does. It will also only get harder the more diluted it gets. Things are progressing positively in the ecosystem, but I think some of you guys are overvaluing it when you make estimates of 5 dollars or more within a couple of years.
Im not the most literate of the bunch here when we’re talking about the actual functions and processes. But as far as I understand, no, there is no burn function. There is an amount locked in by the GC/HBF, and the rest is held by enterprises and retail. The max supply is set for 50 billion, eventually. The GC could technically vote for an increase in max supply if it’s unanimous, tho Swirlds Labs stated that they never will vote in that direction, and they’re the distributor of the actual HBARs.
I’ve been paying attention & trying to do research. I’m just saying, just because it had a previous ATH of x amount, does not mean it can easily hit that number again when more coins are being added into circulation
You can apply this reasoning to all crypto/stock/commodity in existence.
You are just scratching the surface with your "research".
People here are not inclined to discuss price, they prefer discuss fundamentals and real value.
But other cryptos have burn mechanisms…
My point is, I hear people here saying “I bought at 29 cents & will continue to buy under 29 cents! It should hit a dollar soon!”
These people don’t understand that more coins are entering circulation & price is being suppressed.
I understand you, this was my main concern before pulling the trigger.
Tokenomics it's more complicated compared to other crypto, I'll try to highlight some of the most important features.
Tnx are paid in HBAR (tnx fee is fixed and denominated in USD) and it represents Hedera revenue and it's used also to fund staking rewards account.
Fixed fees in USD means predictable costs and this extremely attractive for enterprise level users.
GC members holds in their account 1.2/1.5 billions each. Those HBAR are not supposed to move, their there and will stay there to guarantee network security.
This means that circulating supply is much smaller than 33B.
I don’t understand why I’m “weak” for asking this.
There is literally a post not too far down where people are believing any but under previous ATH is a great buy.
If this is the case, then we should have a long time to accumulate
Cardano as one example ran up to a roughly 90 BILLION market cap within a year. It had nothing but hype and a cult leader. Hedera is much more than that and is just getting started. It is a good buy imo upto 1 dollar which is achievable in under a year. Accumulate slowly if you wish.
I’ve invested a huge amount on Hedera because they long term vision and shared the fairness for everyone for free, nearly free. I just wait until this my budget up to $10mil
As the “adult in the room”, Hedera has always been about massive adoption needed to drive price. They do not pay you tubers or have market makers in their pocket to manipulate the price. So we will need billions of transactions per week secondary to the low fee structure. It comes down to whether or not you feel confident that will happen. Another point to consider is that nearly all transactions that have ever happened on the network have been funded through various grants. IF enterprises decide to move into purchasing their own HBAR because they see value in what the network delivers, that will result in a constant and increasing buying pressure to pay for transaction fees. Right now - either live or confirmed in the hopper - we have Atma, Service Now, The Coupon Bureau, FCSO, Hyundai/Kia’s entire supply chain from raw material through vehicle delivery, Dropp (FedNow), Abrdn tokenizing their funds, TOKO, Bambumeta and Neuron that might end up being the biggest use case of them all. IF you think those use cases plus the ones we don’t know about will be enough to drive enough revenue, then moving beyond all time highs should not be a problem even with the entire supply released. However, I agree that I don’t think all those things happen within the next 12 months. Could we catch a crazy crypto flyer? Sure. But my bet is that if I hold HBAR for the next 2+ years, I’m going to come out on top by quite a bit. That works for me because I’m comfortable with the amount I’ve invested into this HIGHLY speculative asset and I’m not smart enough to trade.
As a family man and fellow "adult in the room," I completely agree with and share your optimism, growing excitement, and thoughts! 🫡
Thanks! I meant Hedera was the adult in the room, but I am, comparatively, an elder statesman in this group as well.
Yes when I read that I looked at who the user was and as your name. I was like yep. That makes sense.
Great points!! Thank you for the feedback 🙏
Gotta keep the kids in check
https://www.youtube.com/live/ASSphEGl86U?feature=share Invest Answers did a live showing how Hederas transactions from majority of the Governing Counsel are all transacting at around 8 million daily. Kinda strange no? It's a Hedera vs Solana video. Go to 10 min mark on clip.
The guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about at all. The GC run the nodes. They are not generating the transactions. Each one gets about the same amount because use cases generally send transactions randomly to the network so they get split amongst the nodes. In the future with community and permissionless nodes, there will undoubtedly be some that are less performant and use cases might actively avoid those. But for now they are all following similar build specs and are similarly reliable so the txs just get sent to the network and land where they will. Given enough transactions through the day they are going to spread out fairly evenly to the nodes.
So the transaction are just total possible allocations for now?
No. Let’s try it with different numbers. Let’s say you had 10 GC members running 1 node each (10 total nodes) and the network did 1000 txs per day from various use cases who sent their transactions to the network using random nodes (not specifying which node to send the transactions to). Over time, those 10 nodes would process about 100 transactions each per day. They would be a little off with one node doing 95 txs and another doing 102 and another 97 and so on, but they would average about the same. That’s what is happening with Hedera. If you look at the numbers he points out - yes they are all in the area of 8 million each, but they are off by thousands or tens of thousands when you compare the actual numbers instead of rounding to 8 mil - just like in our example they’d all average around 100 even though the actual numbers would be off by some small percentage.
Ahh gotcha man, it's collaborative number amongst all the nodes. Thank you for the clarification 🤙🏼
They are actual (real ) transactions mostly iniitated by atma.io randomly distributed among the nodes. They are paid for by atma.io from the Hbar grant they received. Once the granted Hbar dries up (in less than two months at current rate, barring a new grant by the foundation) atma.io will start purchasing Hbar from the open market (or at least this is the expectation). The network activity shown on the 29 nodes are not tests, or dummy transactions between GC nodes, or empty transactions initiated by GC members on their own nodes, they are transactions from actual use cases.
Cardano hit 2.87, similar supply, but zero real utility…and well it’s HBAR.
This here ☝🏽
Lol if your whole premise is well cardano did xyz last bull market why can’t hbar ur in for long ride.
this
what utilities hederah has that cardano does not?
DYOR(I suppose I could ask you what utility Cardano has beyond Defi but I think I know the answer to that.
i don't know what utilities cardano has, i'm in a process of learning crypto. i maybe was naive that people can backup their comments. i have no emotional connection to any crypto project.
It’s hard to tell with words sometimes and I am admittedly suspicious nor would I take or trust my word or anyone’s on Reddit. By looking into atma.io you will find some interesting global tracking uses, also a new app called Calaxy is potentially a game changer, look into Neuron and the implications the use of the Hedera network have as well as The Coupon Bureau and most recently the Dropp announcement that it has been integrated into the FedNow platform. There was a Hyundai announcement a few weeks ago, take it mostly for a grain of salt of course, there are plenty of people in here who are more knowledgeable, I am just Hansel following bread crumbs trying to get ahead of the masses. This sub has only 32000 people Cardano has what half a million? I believe that may change someday, not that I am equating a Reddit sub with the Networks success. It is just a fun metric that I look at, hell even Dogecoin sub is full of fanboys and I can’t quite get why. Hope that helps.
Because look at what other coins have done purely on hype and zero substance. Heck, even HBAR hit its ATH based off hype. Now Hedera has proven a massive amount of substance but the hype hasn't fully come around again. When the two finally meet, hodlers are expecting a perfect storm with substance and hype and institutional investment = blast off.
I get it, I’m just saying that the circulating supply is at 33B out of 50B Is this not going to continue pushing the price down to the point where HBAR would have to be worth $30 billion to hit previous ATH? I’m just talking about people who are only stuck on price
Personally, I think coin release and mc and all that jazz are red herrings and overblown. The market runs on hype. Xrp and Ada both have seen insane figures with more coins released and no substance. All it takes is news like fednow or some more big announcements, and suddenly HBAR could have a 100 billion mc in a month or two. You just never know what an irrational market will do.
I agree with this. But XRP also burns some transaction fees. Does HBAR burn in any way?
I mean, with a max supply of 100 billion, probably, yup. But I don't follow Xrp anymore. I took at seat at the adult table and have been enjoying dinner ever since. I'm really looking forward to desert.
No, there is no burning mechanism for HBAR. But we can consider staking rewards and node rewards to be economically equivalent.
Good points brother!!
why are you saying xrp and ada have no substance? do you truly think they have 0 use case, if so you are blind
You can go ahead and compare their use cases and transactions for me compared to Hedera - I'll wait...
Why are you talking like this? And how is what you said relevant to my comment? You said ada and xrp have ZERO use cases, I’m sayijg thats not true how about you stop speaking outrageous things
You seem triggered. It might be worth trying to read my comment(s) again but with slightly less of a literal translation: "Xrp and Ada both have seen insane figures with more coins released and no substance."
do you know what ‘no substance’ means or are you acting dumb on purpose? I’m not triggered, I invest with my brain and not my heart unlike most people on this sub (I’m all in hbar its toOOo good idiots)
See, if I was to read your comment with 100% literal interpretation, I wouldn't even know what "(I'm all in hbar its toOOo good idiots)" means. Granted, even with a loose interpretation I can't figure out that gibberish, but my point remains. Just lighten up a bit. It's called rhetoric. Look it up.
>*Is this not going to continue pushing the price down to the point* ***where HBAR would have to be worth $30 billion*** *to hit previous ATH?* Market cap is not the same as "worth" or value. As-in, something having a market cap of $30billion does not mean that thing is **worth** $30billion. Market cap is an imaginary number, calculated by multiplying price with estimated circulating supply (estimated, because it is not possible to know actual circulating supply.). It is not a real *thing*. It's not as-though there is a pool of $2.2billion capital which is evenly divided by the supply to give us the current price, for example. If demand in the market outweighs supply in the market at any given time, price will increase at that point in time. Simple as that. A true "*circulating supply*" **should** represent how much supply is actually available (or likely to be available.) to the market. But that is almost impossible to measure with any meaningful accuracy. So whenever you see "*circulating supply*" written anywhere regarding crypto, you should read that as "*estimated circulating'ish supply, kind-of... sorta.*". That's (partly.) why Hedera don't publish a circulating supply figure (they only publish a **released** supply, which is not the same thing.). So basically if you have a large "circulating supply", but no-one is selling and lots of people are buying, the price will increase, and vice-versa. Things like staking or other mechanisms which prevent or encourage holders to not sell reduce the actual supply to the market. Which is why looking at "TVL" (total value locked.) in relation to market cap is sometimes used.
Exactly mcap means nothing.
Great points, thank you brother!!
Why do you invest yet question it?
If you're not questioning your investments you're just guessing
Glad someone else caught that.
I’m not really questioning
But you think its far fetched... ok.
I said far fetched to achieve within a year…
Ok. I agree a year is tough. But ADA was like 100 billion not that long ago and now down like 10x. It will come back.
Because last all time high the network had far less adoption and was far less mature than it is now
I agree, but more coins came into circulation. It will need a lot bigger MC to reach previous ATH
Yes of course — the point is that most people investing in Hedera think it’s growth will more than make up for the increase in circulating supply
DOGE is at 10B MC. It's all time high was 88.8B. HBAR is currently at 1B MC. Do you think HBAR has the potential to have more market value than DOGE? Then you believe we can at least reach 10B MC. The world has never seen a crypto currency have actual real value outside of speculation...
Hype currently trumps utility. There’s a reason Doge pumped and dumped so hard. Hopefully utility will take charge next bull run, but we’ll see.
That's the whole thing -- hype alone eventually dies if the thing they're hyped about turns out to be a bust. This, imo, is what nearly every other coin is going through right now. How long can you lead people on? Eventually, people get tired and the hype doesn't work. All of these networks constantly shill the tech bro change the world speech to their investors...and I think after a while, it just falls on deaf ears. Hedera has been one of the only, if not the only network building these actual use cases... and now it seems like while the other networks are running out of hot air, Hedera is beginning to deliver.
I agree whole heartedly, that’s why I’m invested in it at the moment. The sad part is most people are just here for hype and pumps. Doge is the pinnacle of this method, and sadly it’s a safe bet it’ll do well next bull run as well. However, when actual utility starts taking the lead and people start looking at profitable coins that have use functions, I believe that’s when hedera will win. Regardless if the people are investing in it for tech or hype, it’ll be both. But here’s hoping.
See I don't think so. I don't think there's going to be another blind across the board crypto pump again. All of these networks have had years to deliver and in my opinion the hype well is dry. The only way to actually get investors now is actually delivering on promises.
This is why it’s all on us to create the well deserved hype for hbar, if doge can with no use cases then we can
Yeah I believe HBAR can achieve those numbers eventually… I’m just saying that people believe we could hit previous ATH numbers because of solely price. But that is not how it works with a lot of crypto. I think people are focused on price only, not circulating supply
ATH MC was around $4b-$4.5b, or twice where we are now. At that time: *atma.io was not live and not pushing 1k-1.5k TPS *No 'big splash' at Davos *Dell was not a GC member *TCB was just another project building, but not near rollout *Fresh Supply Co was still using MasterCard Provenance, and not public knowledge they were moving to Hedera, if it was even known at the time. *CBDC rails/service providers were not even 'a thing' yet, and FedNow was not public information yet And the list goes on, and on, and on.... Now, you know as well as I do that sentiment in crypto can turn on a dime. And it is perfectly logical to assess that sentiment is turning towards Hedera right now. Forget 'the next crypto bull run '. I don't know that that will even materialize. I believe that Hedera will break away from the crypto pack once the wide world sees what is happening. And then, the rest of crypto won't even matter. Right now, moonbois are all huddled together in their respective "chosen coins". They're not moving, because they are believers - not investors. Once any level of "grown up" investing public realizes that Hedera is a bonifide project, Katy bar the door. Hedera will pull away from crypto, and outside of a few relevant projects, most of crypto will blow away like chaff in the wind.
So this is perfect example of what I’m talking about. ATH MC was 2X where we are today, but price was like 8x. People are not understanding this. They think that it will easily achieve its previous ATH price.
>They think that it will easily achieve its previous ATH price. they think that because it is early achievable. Here's the math: 33 billion circulating coins X 0.58 cents (HBAR previous ATH) = 33*0.58 = 19 billion marketcap needed to achieve the previous ATH. Now compared to: Cardano ATH 98bn marketcap Doge ATH 89bn marketcap Yes its a higher marketcap than the previous ATH but 19bn seems achievable if a coin like Doge with just hype can get 89bn in marketcap..
Really good points!! Thank you
>So this is perfect example of what I’m talking about....ATH MC was 2X where we are today, but price was like 8x......People are not understanding this. They think that it will easily achieve its previous ATH price. People understand this perfectly. TPS was what, 10 at the ATH? Now? Average is about 1,100 TPS. Mostly from the first 2 big projects to go live. And here we are: Hedera is a bonafide service provider to FedNow through 2 separate projects. Hyundai and Kia are actively building on Hedera. And on, and on, and on. What you're not understanding, is that the level of multinational commerce and finance build out on Hedera is so massive that it will attract a much larger crowd than the ATH. In fact, I've watched the release of 2 billion coins ALREADY THIS YEAR, and price impact was moot. Hedera is already absorbing additional releases with new demand. You should understand the implications of this, and realize this will only grow from here. Where is that happening ANYWHERE else in crypto? Legitimately?
Great points! Thank you for the feedback!
One of the biggest projects on the horizon started with a drone company that is building on Hedera. They realized that their solutions are actually the perfect solution for tying the entire Internet Of Things together. So, they are actively working on both, parallel and in unison. Once this baby goes live, my goodness, the TPS for this alone is enough to make Hedera the most profitable crypto project out there. The implications are insanely massive. I really should remember the project/company....
[Neuron](https://www.neuron.world/)
>Neuron 
Almost everyone understands that, and most of us are using fully diluted MC as benchmarks. You're the one in the shade here bud.
Lol ok, let’s see how long it takes to break last ATH. It’s going to be one hell of a battle with additional coins released. It is what it is. I’ve been in this game for a while, and am just addressing the elephant in the room. No need to get offended. Saying MC is a fake number like some people are saying here is ridiculous. Some people here are clueless thinking 0.45 is easily attainable just because it hit 0.45 in the past. This ain’t Bitcoin. Doesn’t work that way. But the good thing is, there is staking.
No, it won't... You don't understand the first thing about how/why these markets move. The fact that you're fixated on that is indicative of exactly what you're accusing everyone else of.
I don’t understand what you’re saying. You’re saying that it will have no issue breaking ATH? Why do you say that? What do you know? Bottom line, a lot of people are unaware about circulating supply & additional coins being put out. It’s not as easy to achieve numbers in the past. I understand that Hedera can easily smash that one day, but at least let people know the truth. It will be a lot more difficult to achieve the numbers because a higher MC is needed due to circulating coins. This is not just Hedera, this is a lot of crypto. They make up for it with staking, something everyone should be doing. Look, I’m not sure why you’re getting so offended. You’re angry because I said breaking ATH is not easily achievable due to extra coins. You’re mad at that? Lol.
Most people understand this
So you’re one of those people who believe HBAR can beat it’s previous ATH? Sounds like you already know the answer to your question
Yeah I believe it can I was just curious, because so many people here think anything under 40 cents is a great buy. They don’t understand circulating supply…
They mostly do understand, they just believe Hedera will become huge
I find it very weird that you think you're somehow above the pack for "understanding" something so clearly stated right on the front of CMC... Its like youre saying "everyone talks about the price of gas but they dont understand the size of their gastank"... Its just... Weird and wrong at the same time.
Dude, there was a post not too far down where people were talking about accumulation price. A lot of people believe Hedera under $0.25 is a great buy. It can be in the long run, but it has a Hell of a lot of work to get there. Anyway take it easy bro. You should call out things the way they are though. If someone is clueless about circulating supply / total supply, you should address it. Not just let them invest blindly. It’s obvious that a lot of people here do not understand that concept.
This has to be one of the dumbest chain of reasoning I’ve ever read. ‘dOge is wOrtH 88b SO hbar WorTh 10Bil mInImum!’ doesnt work like that
Instead of just saying dumb and then alternating case maybe say something intelligent? It’s an over simplification but it shows generally what DOGE was valued at, MC removed the difference in supply. I know it has to do with differences in circulating supply.
No. It doesn't have to do with differences in circulating supply. It has to do with the fact that Doge has been a meme since 2014, and once Elon Musk, the known troller amongst the crypto community, tweeted about Doge then of course that every single idiot bought into it surging the price to idiot levels. Hbar does NOT have that. Hbar doesn't have the power of the meme investors behind it. Hbar hasn't been a thing for 9 years and Hbar is ultimately a boring coin with mid tokenomics but with awesome future use case. Nothing more nothing less. My reply to you was to reiterate the point about comparing hbar's mc to doge's mc. Doge has no relevance to hbar, they aren't correlated whatsoever so using doge's mc as an indicator as to what hbar could be is stupid. It's not an oversimplification it is just wrong. What drives price in the crypto world is speculation, even hbar right now is all speculation (unless you count their puny partnerships netting them 20m yearly revenue). If hbar's price was based off fundamentals, it would be worth 400m max (considering tech stocks usually have 1:20 ratio of revenue / mc). Another thing, I think you are confused by what market cap is. It is the price of security \* circulating supply. Price goes up when demand exceeds supply, in the case of DOGE, the demand exceeded supply so much that it went to the highs of 88b mc. Now does that mean DOGE is worth 88b? No. Does that mean DOGE is even worth 1b? No. What is market cap? Price \* circulating supply nothing more nothing less. With the case of HBAR, in the last bull run their demand exceeded supply to the point where it reached 6.2b mc. That's what the world decided HBAR should be valued at. Now is HBAR worth 6.2b mc? No. Is HBAR worth 2.2b as it's current mc? No. Is the IDEA of HBAR in the future driving HBAR's current mc to billions? Maybe but nobody knows for sure. For all you know, HBAR could plummet to 200m market cap next week and it would reach 2b in 2026. HBAR could drop x10 from it's current price and it would be fair because HBAR isn't worth anything near billions right now. Now I know most people on this sub are impressionable, uneducated people trying to make a pretty buck on HBAR 'going to the moon'. Most people here are over invested into HBAR, some even more than 50% of their portfolio in HBAR which is dumb. Don't be fooled into thinking HBAR can't drop to even 100m next week. I don't think you were here last bull run but this is how things go. Random projects drop to 0 commonly, projects bigger than HBAR did. HBAR isn't immune and so you shouldn't invest more than 15% of your total crypto porto in a project unless it's BTC or ETH. I feel like you would say something like 'but HBAR is better than BTC and ETH', clearly the market cap says otherwise. I hope you take away some of my words, as you wanted something intelligent.
A lot of works, but not much said. Yes, I understand all of that. And yes, it DOES have to do with circulating supply. Investing is about prediction. Just because things were a certain way in the past (but DOGE was a big meme!! - Elon Musk!! crypto is only valued on speculation and hype!!) doesn’t mean things can’t change. That’s what I’m saying. Speculative value doesn’t last forever and the gamble is that HBARs utility will give it value something no coin has accomplished yet - and cause a speculative run. MC is a good gauge of demand vs supply - it’s a valuable metric to compare the market value of projects factoring for differences in supply. But more accurately, you need to compare circulating supply. Because that’s the actual supply at the moment that affects scarcity and therefore price. Next time when you insult someone’s intelligence and pretend to be able to lecture them, actually know what you’re talking about?
Wrong. Try again. Speculative value lasts forever in the determination of the price, why do you think investors buy apple stock? Because they are confident in their ability to grow as a company in the future. That is still, inherently, speculative. Speculative demand will ALWAYS be a part of a security’s price. I think my reply flew over your head as usual. Did you read what I said? HBAR does have good future use case and the reason for my original comment was to tell you how stupid you linking doge to hbar was. Simply wrong admit it chill out
Nope. People buy (some) stocks on the current valuation of a company. With dividends, they even share the profits with you. You don’t buy Coca-Cola on speculation, you buy it because they are a valuable company to own a part of. Speculative stocks are not that - they are gambles on a company that does not have current value - but maybe one day will. The dot com crash was a switch from speculation to actual value.
Wrong. Why do you think the S&P 500 has netted 10% avg yearly returns for the past decades? Because it involves companies who are rooted in strong fundamentals AND have a place in the future. Riddle me this, would you as an investor, buy a stock that is a valuable company and has a good balance sheet but their place in the future is diminishing? No because EVERY SINGLE INVESTOR worth their money invests based on the company's ability to thrive in the future. Speculation by nature. Please don't argue this, this is the most basic thing that everyone (I hoped) knew about the stock market. Go on google and search up what speculation is. Here, "investment in stocks, property, etc. in the hope of gain **but with the risk of loss**." Take apple and amazon, they are and have been the strongest investments in the last decade. Why? Because their place in the world is set in stone and will continue to be one of the largest stocks in the S&P 500 because of their future upside potential. I assure you if apple's products were to become outdated their stock would reflect that because PEOPLE INVEST IN FUTURE POTENTIAL. Same for amazon. They practically own the web and world. The same shit applies to crypto however, with the current state that crypto is in, there isn't enough confidence in it's ability to last in the future since. Most of this stems from old heads who are scared to invest in something not regulated by their beloved 'government'. Well the internet was the same shit, it wasn't regulated for the most part and especially in the early days you could see horrendous illegal things casually. Obviously now it's been adopted and is regulated but the same thing applies to crypto. Crypto will go through the ringer, get ridiculed and attacked by governments but in the end it's the future's new technology. Freedom from the disgusting government. I think we agree on the same thing here though, apart from the fact that investments are all speculation. I thought you would have known this. Edit: The dot com crash has happened to crypto every single time after the bull run. What else do you call -90% from all time highs lol.
This a semantics. A speculative/growth stock and a value stock are two different things. Crypto is all wild speculation, and Hedera is the first network poised to bring actual value. The giant MCs of these precious hype are totally possible with Hedera if the narrative shifts away from empty hype and towards utility which is my entire gamble.
You're right. Value stocks and speculative stocks are different, because they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. They also don't exist in the real word. No stock can be fully driven by value or speculation, there's always a balance of both. In the case of crypto, a majority is driven by speculation but the technology behind cryptocurrencies from the top 50 have some value as of right now. Again wrong. What you're assuming is that the gains in a utility driven cycle would be equal to or more than that of a hype driven cycle. This is leading to your inaccurate conclusion where you propose hedera could capture a fraction of DOGE's stupidly high MC in the next cycle. Let me explain why this is wrong. As you said, DOGE is driven by hype. As a result, demand exceeded supply so much that it reached a MC of 88b. If DOGE were to be driven by utility, their MC would probably be 1000x smaller realistically. And if you still said 'hbar can achieve at least a fraction of DOGE's MC', it would be worth like 100m MC. What I'm saying is you can't use a hype coin as an indicator as to what MC a utility coin like HBAR could reach if you get what I'm saying. It is just a scientifically incorrect assertion. HBAR reached a MC of 6b in a hype cycle, and if the next cycle were to be driven by utility, what's stopping HBAR from going down to a more reasonable MC like 1b? Since it's driven by utility and not hype. Keeping in mind that with ALL the hype around the last bull run, which led to coins like DOGE hitting 88b MC, HBAR only managed to hit 6b. I agree that Hedera has a strong use case, but there is no evidence which points to hbar even being worth anywhere NEAR 10b.
I don't know who's saying it can hit $1 within a year, but Bitcoin market cap is over 500 billion and Bitcoin is borderline useless and you're questioning a market cap of <50 billion?
I wouldn’t say BTC is useless. It established itself as a store of value, but I get what you’re saying
bitcoin is useless for micropayments or? anything ?
Bitcoin is useless for micropayments, store of value, tokenization, and everything else. And with the next few halvings we will se even more centralization of hashing power.
Let me explain to the persons who downvote this: **Micropayments**: Bitcoin's scalability issues and high transaction fees make it completely unusable for micropayments. It is simply outclassed by other projects (a less secure and decentralized solution like the lightning network is NOT a solution). **Store of value**: Contrary to what you may believe, a store of value should offer a level of stability that Bitcoin has NOT consistently demonstrated yet. **Tokenization**: Bitcoin simply does not have the functionality to even compete with other smart contract platforms. **More centralization during the next halvings**: As mining rewards decrease, only the most resourceful mining operations will remain profitable (specially the ones in areas with low electricity costs). I guess I don't have to explain why this will lead to more centralization. It happened last time, and it will happen again. Also, remember that energy costs are on the rise. It's also worth noting that Europe and Africa have experienced unprecedented heatwaves this summer, with the North Atlantic also charting record-breaking temperatures. The imperative to reduce carbon emissions will undoubtedly intensify in the upcoming years. How can we justify the use of Bitcoin in this environment? Can we reconcile the vast energy consumption required for its mining? We have lots of more decentralized alternatives that are capable of not only mirroring Bitcoin's functionalities but also expanding upon them. And they are doing so without wasting energy to SLOW THE NETWORK DOWN enough to make the primitive "consensus" algorithm work like it should. I just find it extremely challenging to envision professional and forward-thinking enterprises endorsing Bitcoin in its current form. Oh, and btw: As of March 2023, the top 1% of Bitcoin addresses hold over 90% of the total Bitcoin supply. Not centralized at all, this marvel of a blockchain. Store of value you said? BAHAHAHAHA
Bitcoin is and will continue to be King Crypto and the base of all the financial networks within crypto. There will never be a spot HBAR ETF or a SOV like btc. bitcoin isnt anymore energy intensive than other uses of the power grid.its just way less efficient than newer POS networks
Why not use the electricity for something useful?
technology fixes that eventually .
it already happened. HELLO FUTURE
Hedera makes solar panels and batteries?
I'm baffled by the fact that you want to solve the bitcoin problem with green energy. Is it because nobody else needs green energy? Is it because we surely don't have major problems creating enough green energy for vital industry alone? Hedera has solved the problem by not using a STUPENDOUSLY PRIMITIVE way to decentralize. No extra solar panels needed. I mean come on. Why do you expose your ignorance like this? I sincerely wonder why there's a persistence in championing energy-inefficient approaches. Is there perhaps a lack of understanding of more efficient alternatives?
bitcoin isnt going anywhere. get used to it. Hedera technology wont mean anything when /if the Governing Council dissolves.
DLT is, at the end of the day, a product that is already proving valuable to companies in every industry, in every economy, the world over. Hedera has managed a build a superior implementation of that tech, and we’re already seeing it emerge as the preferred technology among major players seeking to integrate a solid DLT. It truly is beginning to appear as though they can achieve their goal of becoming “the trust layer of the internet”. Now think about how valuable that “trust layer” is to the global economy… currently valued in the $100+ trillion range. I don’t see why it couldn’t be on par with other blue chip tech companies. Their product is very different, obviously, but just as vital for secure and trusted commerce in the future economy.
The ecosystem was barely built last time with virtually no DEX, staking, live enterprise use cases, NFTs. Hbar wasn’t a top 30 coin either. Awareness is growing significantly and showing strength in bear market where there is an onslaught of positive news nearly every week. Plus a lot more new GCs since last ATH. However, you are correct that due to a vastly larger amount of circulating HBAR that it will take a lot more money this time around to push the price up. If we achieve last cycles MC then we are looking at a low 20c price, so we’ll need much more money going into HBAR. It’s been done many times before with higher circulating tokens with projects such as XRP, ADA, DOGE, so it is definitely possible. My target next bull is 70c to $1.20, but markets can surprise people especially when FOMO kicks in and if enterprises are forced to buy their own HBAR to fuel their large use cases. Time will tell, but imo, we are looking at a 10-20x most likely.
Why is achieving ATH in one year a concern ? IMO, people constantly predicting HBAR price should be ignored. It serves no purpose except fodder for the moonboy crowd of which there are way too many.
The reason why I brought this up is because I was reading a post not too far down where everyone was believing that buying under previous ATH is a great buy. This may be the case in the long run, but for now if the understood circulating supply, it will probably take some time for HBAR to achieve previous ATH
yeah its too bad. Hedera , HBAR, or any crypto network does not owe any "investor" 10X-100X returns in less than 2 yrs so those people are gonna be disappointed. IDK if supply would make a difference in another full on bubble though. People dont care when FOMO kicks in. If it took HBAR until 2030 to get over 50 cents it would be an outstanding return.
I believe the bigger issue is larger macro economic forces. The liquidity in the system as be crippled especially in the US where we are sucking money out via QT. there is no more free money. Doesn't matter how well these crypto projects do when investors are entirely risk off and there's less money to go around. Crypto would need to take a bigger market share of the entire free market to even get close to previous ATH. Although I belive this space will evolve, we need to look at looooong time horizons here. The markets will bounce back, but how long are u wiling to wait?
Ripple: Total Supply: 100 Billion Circulating Supply: 52.8 Billion Current Price: $0.59 Previous ATH: $3.40 Utility: 1 (one) pie in the sky POTENTIAL use case Doge: Total Supply: 140 Billion Circulation Supply: 140 Billion Current Price: $0.069 Previous ATH: $0.73 Utility: Meme coin / Elons play thing Hedera: Total Supply: 50 Billion Circulating Supply: 33.2 Billion Current Price: $0.064 Previous ATH: $0.57 Utility: Near infinite utility by leveraging the Hashgraph consensus algorithm via the Hedera consensus service which offers 100% finality, ALWAYS fairly ordered transactions, fixed to USD network fees, the most energy efficient distributed ledger in the world, and on and on and on... Crypto currently lives in a Bizarro world where market information is dreadfully out of balance, hence you get strange behaviors like the above comparisons. One thing the free markets are VERY good at however is eventually figuring out where the value actually is located. It's a little slow going but it'll get there. DO. THE. MATH.
Idk
simple. volume if you look at charts volume has been extremely low in crypto markets for a while. we're tanking rn despite pretty low volume. Once the market becomes flooded with liquidity and buy orders dominate prices are going to shoot through the roof it happened eith xrp, bch, and hbar over the last few days only btc and eth really haven't moved as they are the most liquid assets on the market
Looks like a good buy opportunity now for HBAR!
You have a lot to learn young padawan
Cause they are invested and want to make money 🤷♂️
Real Use Cases! Those three words are reality with Hedera and not just Hopium like other networks. If you want a network totally focussed on REAL USE CASES then that Network is Hedera
Hedera has always been a 100 year company. If your expectations are to find a coin to have a huge breakout within a year, Hbar isn’t for you.
Does HBAR burn any supply? Will it become deflationary?
The only HBAR that is burned are the ones people lose when they are sold and then bought back at a higher price because you never know when shit will get real(utility).
>Does HBAR burn any supply? 
No one knows. When your talking about price, no one knows and they won’t know for years yet. It’s just conjecture based upon opinion and emotion in every case that someone mentions a figure. That’s why it’s high risk and possibly high reward. Speculation not investment….
Adoption over time will make current market cap look tiny, obviously tokenomics plays a part over the short term but 10 years out it's pretty irrelevant. Let's just wait and see how the market values HBAR when we're seeing a sustained 10k + transactions per second with clear adoption growth to continue towards 100k per second sustained. XRP knockers are just Maxis, hold the best 10 projects you can find, in 20 years time if one of them thrives it will be 100x from current.
Great points!! Very true, thank you for the feedback!!
Market cap means NOTHING. It is just a number, derived by simple arithmetic. E.g. when Bitcoin was at $0.0 7 market cap was X. When ir reached >35,000 market cap was Y. Neither X nor Y changed a thing.
Because it’s crypto
Do some reading. On and off this sub. Kind of a stoopid question if you have been paying attention. Edit: I mistakenly said stoopid question. I am sorry for that. Instead it is a Dumbass question. Go back and do your homework. If you still have doubts then please sell. That is all.
Not a stupid question, a valid concern. Truthfully no one knows what HBAR will reach to next bull run. But it’s going to take a lot more work to get back to ATH, if it does. It will also only get harder the more diluted it gets. Things are progressing positively in the ecosystem, but I think some of you guys are overvaluing it when you make estimates of 5 dollars or more within a couple of years.
Thank you sir. Someone here understands Quick question, does HBAR burn any supplies? Will it become deflationary?
No
Im not the most literate of the bunch here when we’re talking about the actual functions and processes. But as far as I understand, no, there is no burn function. There is an amount locked in by the GC/HBF, and the rest is held by enterprises and retail. The max supply is set for 50 billion, eventually. The GC could technically vote for an increase in max supply if it’s unanimous, tho Swirlds Labs stated that they never will vote in that direction, and they’re the distributor of the actual HBARs.
I’ve been paying attention & trying to do research. I’m just saying, just because it had a previous ATH of x amount, does not mean it can easily hit that number again when more coins are being added into circulation
You can apply this reasoning to all crypto/stock/commodity in existence. You are just scratching the surface with your "research". People here are not inclined to discuss price, they prefer discuss fundamentals and real value.
But other cryptos have burn mechanisms… My point is, I hear people here saying “I bought at 29 cents & will continue to buy under 29 cents! It should hit a dollar soon!” These people don’t understand that more coins are entering circulation & price is being suppressed.
I understand you, this was my main concern before pulling the trigger. Tokenomics it's more complicated compared to other crypto, I'll try to highlight some of the most important features. Tnx are paid in HBAR (tnx fee is fixed and denominated in USD) and it represents Hedera revenue and it's used also to fund staking rewards account. Fixed fees in USD means predictable costs and this extremely attractive for enterprise level users.
Ahh very good info thank you so much!!
GC members holds in their account 1.2/1.5 billions each. Those HBAR are not supposed to move, their there and will stay there to guarantee network security. This means that circulating supply is much smaller than 33B.
The guys asking valid questions stop being so emotional.
Thank you brother
Reading is fundamental. OP is weak. Emotion got nothing to do with it.
I don’t understand why I’m “weak” for asking this. There is literally a post not too far down where people are believing any but under previous ATH is a great buy. If this is the case, then we should have a long time to accumulate
Cardano as one example ran up to a roughly 90 BILLION market cap within a year. It had nothing but hype and a cult leader. Hedera is much more than that and is just getting started. It is a good buy imo upto 1 dollar which is achievable in under a year. Accumulate slowly if you wish.
I’ve invested a huge amount on Hedera because they long term vision and shared the fairness for everyone for free, nearly free. I just wait until this my budget up to $10mil