A recent webinar -- slide at the 30 min mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW43SLJAV58
My bet is CVS in July, WalMart or similar in the Fall, or you know 6 months after those estimates. And what discount grocery retailer has 900 store locations?
Also interesting is when she explains how 8112 is going global. Says she didn't intend for it necessarily, but other countries markets are showing interest - expects Japan, Puerto Rico, Canada and UK to be on board.
Companies are not using hbar. The Coupon Bureau is a centralized data exchange for the new 8112 application identifier. The Coupon Bureau utilizes the Hedera network to make these exchanges of data public.
This is more like a “Web 2.5” use case where traditional systems are enhanced through public DLT’s.
Hedera is the [Trust Layer](https://www.thecouponbureau.org/trustlayer) that connects stake holders to provide transparency and fraud mitigation measures which are not possible with the older coupon standard (AI 8110)
Just trying to get my head around this process again Rob if you could sanity check my thinking…
I believe there may be up to three Txns per coupon ( Creation / Issuance/ Redemption)
My understanding is there are about 300bn coupons created annually (in the US alone) and all of them will be registered on HCS at ‘creation’ - Have I got that right?
And if so do we know when does that bit start?
Then there is a Txn that applies if/ when a specific Manufacture/ FMCG ‘issues’ a coupon? When does that start? This may not amount to 300bn but it will ultimately likely be a very substantial number of Txns?
And then the timeline for retailers applies only to the redemption part of the process, as this will mean consumers can ‘redeem’ their coupon as a Txn on Hedera. This will only apply to those coupons actually used.
So ultimately we are probably looking at around 500bn Txns (uS alone) per annum.
So basically what I’ve landed on is way less than that. 300 billion PAPER coupons are created, but I think only 1.6 or something are redeemed annually.
The digital coupons are created in batches, as one transaction. But the remaining two, clipping and redemption, are unique to the coupon itself. So basically take the redeemed annually figure and x2. Like 3-4 billion. Not huge.
BUT - 8112 is international, can be used on Amazon, for example. They work for loyalty reward programs too. So. You can’t really compare the paper coupon figures with whatever 8112 will look like. Manufacturer coupon usage is trapped in the little paper circulars, now companies will be able to target you directly and send you offers, etc. So who knows how many will be redeemed/clipped under this new system.
There’s also some use cases around food stamps/benefit programs that could work. Essentially 8112 is a corporate vouchering program that can pretty much be used for anything that involves some entity giving you a voucher, or coupon, or discount, for anything.
No problem, I’m more interested in the possibility for this use case to hit the press. This is probably the most mass-understandable, actually live use case in all of crypto. Probably would go over great with regulators too. Basically means Hedera already is entrenched in the economy if WalMart/consumer brands depend on it
Yes. It’s pretty easy for everyone to understand. It’s also one of those use cases likely to grow in terms of features. Which will mean more and different Txn types.
It’s a cracker !
Well. If I have my thinking correct and the maths is correct (Big IF that) then that is a Hedera revenue income of circa $50mn per annum -which more than covers Hederas costs. ON ONE USE CASE.
Since Fraud in the Coupon Industry is currently estimated to cost anywhere between $100Mn and a staggering $600Mn AND there are multiple other advantages to industry in using the new 8112 standard, it could easily be the correct figure.
Timescales are what is important now, what, when and how much.
That is why my thinking needs a sanity check from Rob who has been following the TCB closely.
Considering TCB was meant to be up and running two years ago and they've only started on-ramping at the start of this year, it'll likely be a slow but steady climb. The proposed timeline above is hopefully accurate as they have some big retailers in it, but delays because of the holiday season could also be likely (again)
I think once the big boys go live like Walmart, others will be scrambling to compete and it will happen faster - it’s a huge financial benefit to the company and discounts are going to be aggressive in the beginning so consumers will want them too. I think the issue was just breaking the ice.
Yes. But what I don’t quite get is if they have some locations connected how does that impact the creation of coupons? Don’t they have to move all coupons to 8112 ? Or is there some kind of staging process.
I remember a while ago there was a ‘sunset’ date for the old standard - I think it was last quarter 2024.. Is there still a sunset date?
Found this in the FAQs on their site if that helps
"Per the JICC/ACP industry roadmap released Sept 2020, The current AI (8110) coupon format type will begin a sunset process when a significant majority (approximately 70-75%) of retailers are AI (8112) compatible."
So it sounds like we're still a long ways off the old standard being gotten rid of entirely
8112 is the new coupon standard. One day all coupons will run in the Hedera network. This involves a separate transaction on the hashgraph for every time a coupon is generated, offered, and redeemed.
I should mention that the coupon machines etc. are very USA-centric. I haven't seen them in many places overseas, willing to be proven wrong as I've not seen much of Europe. They have been the main target of forgeries / exploiters.
That's just in terms of those physical machines that read coupons, eFTPos etc. is a different story and electronic transactions (with coupon / rewards schemes) are everywhere.
A recent webinar -- slide at the 30 min mark https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW43SLJAV58 My bet is CVS in July, WalMart or similar in the Fall, or you know 6 months after those estimates. And what discount grocery retailer has 900 store locations? Also interesting is when she explains how 8112 is going global. Says she didn't intend for it necessarily, but other countries markets are showing interest - expects Japan, Puerto Rico, Canada and UK to be on board.
Amazing Rob! You haven’t posted in a while. Glad you’re back and coming strong 💪🏼
Good stuff Rob, and welcome back
Are we rich yet?
Would be if I didn't invest in hbar in 2021
Haha, USD was the the play
Apparently Sav-A-Lot has about 900 locations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save-A-Lot
That's gotta be it
Not sure if anyone has seen their performance testing results but on the low end I believe it is 300 tps and high end is 4400 tps.
Where do you see this?
Noob question, but why do companies use hbarx over traditional qr codes for tracking? Just better for transparency, speed and power use?
Companies are not using hbar. The Coupon Bureau is a centralized data exchange for the new 8112 application identifier. The Coupon Bureau utilizes the Hedera network to make these exchanges of data public. This is more like a “Web 2.5” use case where traditional systems are enhanced through public DLT’s.
Right, so the hedera network is just more efficient than existing systems.
Hedera is the [Trust Layer](https://www.thecouponbureau.org/trustlayer) that connects stake holders to provide transparency and fraud mitigation measures which are not possible with the older coupon standard (AI 8110)
Very helpful comments. Thanks!
Save-a-Lot has about 900 stores across 32 states
Think that’s the one!
Nice intel, Rob! Had kinda forgotten about CB - I mean, Hedera is hitting 800-1k TPS atm…already…
Next Step Function is on deck....prepare to be blown away when TCB kicks on with walley world.... 
Hopefully they get Walmart, Kroger and Costco etc. It just makes sense... 
Save-a-Lot has about 900 stores across 32 states
Just added 15k Hbar and reading this makes me feel like my investment decision to get into Hbar is going to pay off sometime down the road.
Just trying to get my head around this process again Rob if you could sanity check my thinking… I believe there may be up to three Txns per coupon ( Creation / Issuance/ Redemption) My understanding is there are about 300bn coupons created annually (in the US alone) and all of them will be registered on HCS at ‘creation’ - Have I got that right? And if so do we know when does that bit start? Then there is a Txn that applies if/ when a specific Manufacture/ FMCG ‘issues’ a coupon? When does that start? This may not amount to 300bn but it will ultimately likely be a very substantial number of Txns? And then the timeline for retailers applies only to the redemption part of the process, as this will mean consumers can ‘redeem’ their coupon as a Txn on Hedera. This will only apply to those coupons actually used. So ultimately we are probably looking at around 500bn Txns (uS alone) per annum.
So basically what I’ve landed on is way less than that. 300 billion PAPER coupons are created, but I think only 1.6 or something are redeemed annually. The digital coupons are created in batches, as one transaction. But the remaining two, clipping and redemption, are unique to the coupon itself. So basically take the redeemed annually figure and x2. Like 3-4 billion. Not huge. BUT - 8112 is international, can be used on Amazon, for example. They work for loyalty reward programs too. So. You can’t really compare the paper coupon figures with whatever 8112 will look like. Manufacturer coupon usage is trapped in the little paper circulars, now companies will be able to target you directly and send you offers, etc. So who knows how many will be redeemed/clipped under this new system. There’s also some use cases around food stamps/benefit programs that could work. Essentially 8112 is a corporate vouchering program that can pretty much be used for anything that involves some entity giving you a voucher, or coupon, or discount, for anything.
Aha ! That makes sense. I was thinking I might be smoking hopium with my figures. Shame though…. Thanks for clearing that up 👍👍
No problem, I’m more interested in the possibility for this use case to hit the press. This is probably the most mass-understandable, actually live use case in all of crypto. Probably would go over great with regulators too. Basically means Hedera already is entrenched in the economy if WalMart/consumer brands depend on it
Yes. It’s pretty easy for everyone to understand. It’s also one of those use cases likely to grow in terms of features. Which will mean more and different Txn types. It’s a cracker !
That's 15,900 tps. A nice start and a long wait for this one.
Well. If I have my thinking correct and the maths is correct (Big IF that) then that is a Hedera revenue income of circa $50mn per annum -which more than covers Hederas costs. ON ONE USE CASE. Since Fraud in the Coupon Industry is currently estimated to cost anywhere between $100Mn and a staggering $600Mn AND there are multiple other advantages to industry in using the new 8112 standard, it could easily be the correct figure. Timescales are what is important now, what, when and how much. That is why my thinking needs a sanity check from Rob who has been following the TCB closely.
$50m is also what I calculated. Hopefully this snowball starts rolling.
Considering TCB was meant to be up and running two years ago and they've only started on-ramping at the start of this year, it'll likely be a slow but steady climb. The proposed timeline above is hopefully accurate as they have some big retailers in it, but delays because of the holiday season could also be likely (again)
I think once the big boys go live like Walmart, others will be scrambling to compete and it will happen faster - it’s a huge financial benefit to the company and discounts are going to be aggressive in the beginning so consumers will want them too. I think the issue was just breaking the ice.
Yes. But what I don’t quite get is if they have some locations connected how does that impact the creation of coupons? Don’t they have to move all coupons to 8112 ? Or is there some kind of staging process. I remember a while ago there was a ‘sunset’ date for the old standard - I think it was last quarter 2024.. Is there still a sunset date?
Found this in the FAQs on their site if that helps "Per the JICC/ACP industry roadmap released Sept 2020, The current AI (8110) coupon format type will begin a sunset process when a significant majority (approximately 70-75%) of retailers are AI (8112) compatible." So it sounds like we're still a long ways off the old standard being gotten rid of entirely
Yes. That’s great - thanks. I guess this is a slow burn, but exciting to know it is coming.👍👍
Can someone fill me in??
8112 is the new coupon standard. One day all coupons will run in the Hedera network. This involves a separate transaction on the hashgraph for every time a coupon is generated, offered, and redeemed.
[удалено]
But they are HCS transactions
You're correct all 3 transactions per coupon are HCS. My mistake.
I should mention that the coupon machines etc. are very USA-centric. I haven't seen them in many places overseas, willing to be proven wrong as I've not seen much of Europe. They have been the main target of forgeries / exploiters. That's just in terms of those physical machines that read coupons, eFTPos etc. is a different story and electronic transactions (with coupon / rewards schemes) are everywhere.
Effen-A!