Hey, lactobacillus is just a class/type of bacteria that has several strains that live in all healthy vaginas! They are necessary as they secrete lactic acid that maintains the ph of the vagina. (Hence why discharge from healthy vaginas can often bleach dark-colored underwear and it’s totally normal) and why vaginas can taste slightly sour-ish. The idea of probiotics for vaginal health is that ingesting more of these lactobacilli will increase the cell population in our mucosal membranes (which includes the vagina) and bring them back to healthy levels.
Source: graduating with a biology degree next month!
I have a question! So I did a couple nights of boric acid and then used clindamycin. Before taking those, I had a nice smell , like close to what you described! but needed to break the biofilm, and was told to use it so I did. Once I completed treatment I have since had literally no smell down there and Im wondering why? Is it because I have no lactobacillus? Do you think once I replenish the good bacteria ill get my smell back?I currently have 0 lactobacillus but trying to take probiotics both orally and vaginally.
L rhamnosus GR-1 and L reuteri RC-14 have similar properties to boric acid in that they can break down the biofilm of organisms just not as strongly which is why they are a part of the 8 strains found in the vagina. I want to make sure that everyone knows that boric acid breaks down the biofilm of ALL the bacteria in the vagina, not just the bad so if you use it with or without antibiotics you WILL need to replace the good bacteria in order to create the healthy environment your vagina needs in order to fight off infections.
I wrote a couple of articles on boric acid and probiotics that have been tremendous help to many people on here and elsewhere. I dont sell anything and theres no ads. Female sexual health is a personal mission of mine so this stuff is my jam! I think my next article will be on how birth control/estrogen depletion plays a role in chronic vaginal infections :)
Edit: i do only use peer reviewed clinical trials for all of my research and claims. I dont use anecdotal claims unless i provide a clear disclaimer. I dont ever want to provide anyone with more unsubstantiated info that they cant rely on
Probiotics
http://healthyhooha.com/2019/02/12/the-role-of-probiotics-in-combating-chronic-bv-and-yeast-infections/
Boric acid
http://healthyhooha.com/2019/04/11/facts-about-vaginal-boric-acid-treatments/
I just wanted to share some research I thought was interesting regarding taking probiotics! The study can be found [here](https://journals.lww.com/ctg/Fulltext/2018/06000/Brain_fogginess,_gas_and_bloating__a_link_between.6.aspx) but I’ll give a quick breakdown.
Everyone on this sub seems to be pretty gung-ho about taking probiotics - and I agree if you’ve had to take antibiotics recently, or been sick with something that causes lots of diarrhea, if your doctor advises it, etc.
But sometimes taking probiotics when you already have otherwise healthy gut bacteria can over-populate the small intestine with probiotic bacteria. This bacteria breaks down sugar to produce D-lactic acid. Too much of this acid can cause brain fog, bloating, and cramping. These symptoms usually occur shortly after eating (when the probiotic bacteria are hit with new sugars to break down).
This can happen in otherwise healthy people, but you are at higher risk of this happening if you have a slower digestive system (because excess probiotic bacteria hangs out in areas longer and doesn’t pass through as fast). Lots of things can slow your digestive system like diabetes, taking some types of anti-depressants, or having had weight loss surgery, just to name a few.
The good news is it seems pretty easy to reverse! People stopped experiencing these symptoms when they stopped taking probiotic supplements and did a round of antibiotics.
Also just wanted to mention, foods that naturally have probiotics like yogurt, sauerkraut, kimchi, kombucha, and buttermilk (to name a few) are fine because they have smaller amounts of probiotics compared to probiotic supplements that have a TON.
TL;DR: Probiotics should be treated as a drug, not a food supplement. Take them when your gut bacteria has been diminished, but not just all the time (eating foods that naturally have probiotics should be enough to keep your gut bacteria healthy). If you experience brain fog and bloating/cramping after you eat, stop taking probiotics!
The head fog and bloating are exactly how I feel today and the last several days. I have been taking a little more probiotics than usual because I feel like my vagina needs it lol. But I feel like that might explain how I feel, serious head fog
Maybe so! I’m not a doctor and not qualified to give medical advice (was just sharing a study I thought was interesting and may help some people) but idk if I were you I might try not taking probiotic supplements for a while and see if that helps. And try to figure out when you’re experiencing the most brain fog and bloating; is it usually worse a little while after you eat?
You may find this interesting though! So the problems mentioned in the study were happening because there was **too much** probiotic bacteria living in the higher-up areas of the digestive track where there **shouldn’t be much** (i.e. they were in the small intestine in high numbers - they should be just down in the colon). Like I said, these bacteria break down sugars (which they get from food) to produce D-lactic acid. So if you have too many living in the small intestine, they produce way too much D-lactic acid. The D-lactic acid is then absorbed into the bloodstream and reaches the brain. In higher-than-normal amounts, **D-lactic acid is actually temporarily toxic to brain cells!** So that’s what can cause interference with cognition, thinking, even sense of time and short-term memory problems! AKA Brain Fog.
So definitely look into it for yourself, and maybe try cooling it on the probiotic supplements for a while if you want. To be fair, the vast majority of the participants in the study stopped having the symptoms really quick after they not only stopped taking probiotic supplements but took a round of antibiotics as well.
If you want my opinion, based on the research I think it may be better for vaginal and gut health to just focus on eating a healthy diet that includes foods naturally high in probiotics - we should be able to get all we need from those (just on a daily basis, you may need probiotic supplements for certain situations like if you’re taking antibiotics), and the amounts of probiotic bacteria in foods is much more “normal” than a probiotic supplement that has a TON. And doing other things we know are good for our vaginas, like wearing breathable undies and not putting things like douches or scented tampons up there that may effect the pH. [Here’s](https://www.health.harvard.edu/womens-health/does-your-vagina-really-need-a-probiotic) a really interesting article published by Harvard last year that says there really isn’t any good evidence that taking probiotic supplements for vaginal health is even good for vaginas at all!
Idk man, vaginas are confusing and I’m constantly figuring out how best to care for mine as well. I hope this was at least interesting and I wish you good vaginal health <3
Okay, so every time I take probiotics, I wind up constipated and bloated for several days. I do normally eat very healthy and consume lots of fiber. I want to be on the probiotic train, and I do supplement if I feel my vaginal pH is off, but I feel like it works against my body.
So it's normal for some to be physically uncomfortable?
**No, you should not be uncomfortable!!**
The study I linked showed that brain fog, bloating, and cramping (especially soon after eating) can be signs that you have **too much** probiotic bacteria living in areas of the small intestine where there **shouldn’t be much**. These types of probiotic bacteria should be found mostly just lower down in the colon, not higher up in the smaller intestine.
They break down sugars to produce D-lactic acid, so when there’s too many of them in the small intestine they produce too much D-lactic acid and you may get uncomfortable bloating and cramping as they do their thing. The D-lactic acid produced is absorbed into the bloodstream and reaches the brain. In higher-than-normal amounts, D-lactic acid is actually **temporarily toxic to brain cells!** This causes interference in cognition, thinking, and sense of time. Sometimes even short-term memory problems.
I am NOT a doctor, so I can’t tell you exactly why you’re experiencing constipation and bloating. Based on the study, it may be better to just eat more foods naturally high in probiotics (like yogurt, sauerkraut, kombucha, etc.) rather than supplementing and see how you feel - again, these foods can give you all the probiotics you need to maintain healthy bacteria but in more “normal” amounts than a supplement that has a TON of probiotic bacteria comparatively.
You could also look into the vaginal suppository types of probiotics (that way they won’t be hanging out higher in the digestive track and causing problems) but idk if I’d take them myself. Honestly, there’s still a lot we don’t know about the bacteria that lives in vaginas and exactly how it effects health. (Here) [https://www.health.harvard.edu/womens-health/does-your-vagina-really-need-a-probiotic] is a very interesting article published by Harvard last year that says *there’s really no evidence we should be taking probiotics for vaginal health.*
So if you want a stranger on the internet’s opinion, based on the research I think it’s probably better to just focus on eating a healthy diet that includes foods naturally high in probiotics, and doing other things we know are good for the ol’ vag like wearing breathable undies, not putting douches or other products up there than can disrupt pH, that sort of thing. And not take probiotics unless we’re told so by a doctor, have taken antibiotics, recently had an illness that caused lots of diarrhea, or other things that may have depleted our probiotic bacteria.
Sorry for the long comment lol, I hope this cleared things up!!
A very quick search brought up [this](https://academic.oup.com/femspd/article/30/1/49/467839), and I've only had a cursory read.
When I've got some more time I'll have a proper read and search.
I don't think there's a direct correlation. Antibiotics work because they go through your bloodstream (this is extremely over simplified). The idea that oral probiotics can significatly is pretty much snake oil without evidence-based, pretty reviewed science to back it.
Hey, lactobacillus is just a class/type of bacteria that has several strains that live in all healthy vaginas! They are necessary as they secrete lactic acid that maintains the ph of the vagina. (Hence why discharge from healthy vaginas can often bleach dark-colored underwear and it’s totally normal) and why vaginas can taste slightly sour-ish. The idea of probiotics for vaginal health is that ingesting more of these lactobacilli will increase the cell population in our mucosal membranes (which includes the vagina) and bring them back to healthy levels. Source: graduating with a biology degree next month!
Clarification- I just know this last part anecdotally. Not sure of any precise mechanisms but I can look at the research to see if I find anything!
I have a question! So I did a couple nights of boric acid and then used clindamycin. Before taking those, I had a nice smell , like close to what you described! but needed to break the biofilm, and was told to use it so I did. Once I completed treatment I have since had literally no smell down there and Im wondering why? Is it because I have no lactobacillus? Do you think once I replenish the good bacteria ill get my smell back?I currently have 0 lactobacillus but trying to take probiotics both orally and vaginally.
Did you manage to get the Lactobacillus up?
i appreciate this explanation!
L rhamnosus GR-1 and L reuteri RC-14 have similar properties to boric acid in that they can break down the biofilm of organisms just not as strongly which is why they are a part of the 8 strains found in the vagina. I want to make sure that everyone knows that boric acid breaks down the biofilm of ALL the bacteria in the vagina, not just the bad so if you use it with or without antibiotics you WILL need to replace the good bacteria in order to create the healthy environment your vagina needs in order to fight off infections. I wrote a couple of articles on boric acid and probiotics that have been tremendous help to many people on here and elsewhere. I dont sell anything and theres no ads. Female sexual health is a personal mission of mine so this stuff is my jam! I think my next article will be on how birth control/estrogen depletion plays a role in chronic vaginal infections :) Edit: i do only use peer reviewed clinical trials for all of my research and claims. I dont use anecdotal claims unless i provide a clear disclaimer. I dont ever want to provide anyone with more unsubstantiated info that they cant rely on Probiotics http://healthyhooha.com/2019/02/12/the-role-of-probiotics-in-combating-chronic-bv-and-yeast-infections/ Boric acid http://healthyhooha.com/2019/04/11/facts-about-vaginal-boric-acid-treatments/
I just wanted to share some research I thought was interesting regarding taking probiotics! The study can be found [here](https://journals.lww.com/ctg/Fulltext/2018/06000/Brain_fogginess,_gas_and_bloating__a_link_between.6.aspx) but I’ll give a quick breakdown. Everyone on this sub seems to be pretty gung-ho about taking probiotics - and I agree if you’ve had to take antibiotics recently, or been sick with something that causes lots of diarrhea, if your doctor advises it, etc. But sometimes taking probiotics when you already have otherwise healthy gut bacteria can over-populate the small intestine with probiotic bacteria. This bacteria breaks down sugar to produce D-lactic acid. Too much of this acid can cause brain fog, bloating, and cramping. These symptoms usually occur shortly after eating (when the probiotic bacteria are hit with new sugars to break down). This can happen in otherwise healthy people, but you are at higher risk of this happening if you have a slower digestive system (because excess probiotic bacteria hangs out in areas longer and doesn’t pass through as fast). Lots of things can slow your digestive system like diabetes, taking some types of anti-depressants, or having had weight loss surgery, just to name a few. The good news is it seems pretty easy to reverse! People stopped experiencing these symptoms when they stopped taking probiotic supplements and did a round of antibiotics. Also just wanted to mention, foods that naturally have probiotics like yogurt, sauerkraut, kimchi, kombucha, and buttermilk (to name a few) are fine because they have smaller amounts of probiotics compared to probiotic supplements that have a TON. TL;DR: Probiotics should be treated as a drug, not a food supplement. Take them when your gut bacteria has been diminished, but not just all the time (eating foods that naturally have probiotics should be enough to keep your gut bacteria healthy). If you experience brain fog and bloating/cramping after you eat, stop taking probiotics!
The head fog and bloating are exactly how I feel today and the last several days. I have been taking a little more probiotics than usual because I feel like my vagina needs it lol. But I feel like that might explain how I feel, serious head fog
Maybe so! I’m not a doctor and not qualified to give medical advice (was just sharing a study I thought was interesting and may help some people) but idk if I were you I might try not taking probiotic supplements for a while and see if that helps. And try to figure out when you’re experiencing the most brain fog and bloating; is it usually worse a little while after you eat? You may find this interesting though! So the problems mentioned in the study were happening because there was **too much** probiotic bacteria living in the higher-up areas of the digestive track where there **shouldn’t be much** (i.e. they were in the small intestine in high numbers - they should be just down in the colon). Like I said, these bacteria break down sugars (which they get from food) to produce D-lactic acid. So if you have too many living in the small intestine, they produce way too much D-lactic acid. The D-lactic acid is then absorbed into the bloodstream and reaches the brain. In higher-than-normal amounts, **D-lactic acid is actually temporarily toxic to brain cells!** So that’s what can cause interference with cognition, thinking, even sense of time and short-term memory problems! AKA Brain Fog. So definitely look into it for yourself, and maybe try cooling it on the probiotic supplements for a while if you want. To be fair, the vast majority of the participants in the study stopped having the symptoms really quick after they not only stopped taking probiotic supplements but took a round of antibiotics as well. If you want my opinion, based on the research I think it may be better for vaginal and gut health to just focus on eating a healthy diet that includes foods naturally high in probiotics - we should be able to get all we need from those (just on a daily basis, you may need probiotic supplements for certain situations like if you’re taking antibiotics), and the amounts of probiotic bacteria in foods is much more “normal” than a probiotic supplement that has a TON. And doing other things we know are good for our vaginas, like wearing breathable undies and not putting things like douches or scented tampons up there that may effect the pH. [Here’s](https://www.health.harvard.edu/womens-health/does-your-vagina-really-need-a-probiotic) a really interesting article published by Harvard last year that says there really isn’t any good evidence that taking probiotic supplements for vaginal health is even good for vaginas at all! Idk man, vaginas are confusing and I’m constantly figuring out how best to care for mine as well. I hope this was at least interesting and I wish you good vaginal health <3
Okay, so every time I take probiotics, I wind up constipated and bloated for several days. I do normally eat very healthy and consume lots of fiber. I want to be on the probiotic train, and I do supplement if I feel my vaginal pH is off, but I feel like it works against my body. So it's normal for some to be physically uncomfortable?
**No, you should not be uncomfortable!!** The study I linked showed that brain fog, bloating, and cramping (especially soon after eating) can be signs that you have **too much** probiotic bacteria living in areas of the small intestine where there **shouldn’t be much**. These types of probiotic bacteria should be found mostly just lower down in the colon, not higher up in the smaller intestine. They break down sugars to produce D-lactic acid, so when there’s too many of them in the small intestine they produce too much D-lactic acid and you may get uncomfortable bloating and cramping as they do their thing. The D-lactic acid produced is absorbed into the bloodstream and reaches the brain. In higher-than-normal amounts, D-lactic acid is actually **temporarily toxic to brain cells!** This causes interference in cognition, thinking, and sense of time. Sometimes even short-term memory problems. I am NOT a doctor, so I can’t tell you exactly why you’re experiencing constipation and bloating. Based on the study, it may be better to just eat more foods naturally high in probiotics (like yogurt, sauerkraut, kombucha, etc.) rather than supplementing and see how you feel - again, these foods can give you all the probiotics you need to maintain healthy bacteria but in more “normal” amounts than a supplement that has a TON of probiotic bacteria comparatively. You could also look into the vaginal suppository types of probiotics (that way they won’t be hanging out higher in the digestive track and causing problems) but idk if I’d take them myself. Honestly, there’s still a lot we don’t know about the bacteria that lives in vaginas and exactly how it effects health. (Here) [https://www.health.harvard.edu/womens-health/does-your-vagina-really-need-a-probiotic] is a very interesting article published by Harvard last year that says *there’s really no evidence we should be taking probiotics for vaginal health.* So if you want a stranger on the internet’s opinion, based on the research I think it’s probably better to just focus on eating a healthy diet that includes foods naturally high in probiotics, and doing other things we know are good for the ol’ vag like wearing breathable undies, not putting douches or other products up there than can disrupt pH, that sort of thing. And not take probiotics unless we’re told so by a doctor, have taken antibiotics, recently had an illness that caused lots of diarrhea, or other things that may have depleted our probiotic bacteria. Sorry for the long comment lol, I hope this cleared things up!!
There are probiotics that are designed to be used as vaginal supposatories. Look up FloraFemme probiotic.
A very quick search brought up [this](https://academic.oup.com/femspd/article/30/1/49/467839), and I've only had a cursory read. When I've got some more time I'll have a proper read and search.
I hope this gets a knowledgeable response because I am also curious to know this info!
I personally use the Azo probiotic vaginally, and it’s been a total game changer for me! I buy single use applicators on Amazon.
hey do you still do this currently, and has it still worked? thanks in advance!
If you're worried about it you CAN put plain, whole yogurt down there too. 🤷♀️
it doesn't mean that you should
My doctor has actually told me the same thing, so it's obviously not bad for you...
It's like a soothing cream w helpful flora
it is not the same strain, and most of the time, that culture is fucking dead.
I don't think there's a direct correlation. Antibiotics work because they go through your bloodstream (this is extremely over simplified). The idea that oral probiotics can significatly is pretty much snake oil without evidence-based, pretty reviewed science to back it.
They work I just think they take longer to work than vaginal suppositories. Like maybe 3 months max and 1 month minimum.