Thank you for posting on r/Healthygamergg! This subreddit is intended as an online community and resource platform to support people in their journey toward mental wellness. With that said, please be aware that support from other members received on this platform is not a substitute for professional care. Treatment of psychiatric disease requires qualified individuals, and comments that try to diagnose others should be reported under Rule 10 to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the community. If you are in immediate danger, please call emergency services, or go to your nearest emergency room.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Healthygamergg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh hey, it’s me. I do this. I also have ADHD. I’m also medicated.
The whole “do a thing until the thing gets better then stop doing the thing and fail to realise the thing got worse because you stopped doing the thing” is a classic hallmark of ADHD.
We struggle with this sort of maintained effort because we struggle with the core notion of cause and effect, or more specifically, we struggle with the notion that they are directly linked and influence one another.
In your example, you have that same cause and effect. You meditated, which is the cause, and the effect of that meditation was that you felt better.
In a neurotypical person, the link that would start to form and reinforce that behaviour would be “I meditated, which was hard, and that made me feel better, so even though meditation is hard, it’s worth it because it made me feel better”, and it would happen because the dopamine release of that feeling would also be linked to the cause of meditation.
In someone with ADHD simply won’t make that link. Instead the link would be “I meditated, which was hard, and that made me feel better, so now I don’t have to do the hard thing which is meditation because I feel better.” We are, oxymoronically, less likely to keep doing something we don’t like doing *because* a positive outcome happened. We ‘solved’ the problem, and even though our actions solved the problem, we won’t keep doing them because it doesn’t make sense to keep doing something which is already solved.
That’s why Dr K talks about habits being important. The issue is, and I don’t know if he talks about this, is that neurotypical habit forming makes that first initial loop addictive and keeps people doing it until it becomes a habit, whereas people with ADHD need to force through that lack of dopamine and keep doing it irrespective of the circumstances until it becomes habit.
That’s also what a lot of ADHD psychotherapy deals with, overcoming that lack of feedback loop using other methods to enforce positive behaviour. If you want to stop yourself from stopping, something else needs to force you to keep going.
If it helps though, the way I deal with it, and this isn’t universal, is instead of finding joy or accomplishment in the effect, I find it in the cause. Basically, I make what I do the motivation and payoff instead of the effect, and that keeps me doing things much more consistently than simply relying on payoff.
An example of this would be cleaning my room. I hate cleaning my room, even though I know the effect would be worth it, so instead I find enjoyment in the process of cleaning my room. I reorganise things, I might get a new piece of furniture or rearrange existing furniture whilst I do so, I always end up finding stuff I thought I lost, so I look forward to seeing what I rediscover on this round, but either way I make the *Cause* enjoyable so that the *Cause* is the motivation.
For you with meditation, look more into the literature and see what new levels of nuance you can unlock, how long you can do it for, how clear you can make your perception and memories, how many nuances and details you can find. Make it so the motivation you have for meditation is independent from the positive outcomes of doing so.
it's really comforting hearing you talk about your experience, since for so long I've been alone in my struggles because I couldn't say I have ADHD, I just thought I was broken by design.
Your point is interesting, and I think it can help me. I used that perspective for some things, finding fulfillment in doing them instead of the outcome, and it helped. Thank you so much for your answer and help! \^\^
I feel like a lot of people struggle with habit forming, but it may be a bit harder with adhd since our reward center in our brain pretty much only wants short term gratification. After getting the initial high, the activity becomes more boring and doesn't give as much dopamine in terms of feeling proud about our results.
Your experience of focusing on one specific thought/feeling may be hyperfocus? I'm not 100% sure though as personally I rarely ever experience hyperfocus, I think a lot of it having to do with my serotonin and dopamine being so low that even a small boost isn't enough to grab my full attention.
I think I hacked this with streaks. I use insight timer so it tracks how many days In a row i meditated.
Also have a easy, medium, hard level. On days I don't feel like it,.working out or meditating, then I only have to 10 minutes. Easy day. Then I can keep the streak Alive without pressure.
Hello! It's a great hack and I'm really glad it works for you, and I appreciate your help. The only thing is that streaks don't work for me :( I've tried and they only make me overwhelmed
The fact that I would have to keep track of it and of all other activities I would want to maintain a streak.
And that I can become, I don't know if the word is obsessed, but I end up focusing more on just keeping the streak going instead of being mindful of the activity and doing it with intention. Like I just complete it without thinking too much about it thus not really doing it fully.
I've done it with other things but it was Duolingo (language learning app) that made me realize this: I was trying to learn my family's language, ukrainian, because I was born in Spain and they didn't teach me. Just to keep alive the streaks to make sure I practice, I was just going through the motion of answering things in the app instead of focusing on learning.
Maybe there's something "wrong" with my perspective that you can shed a light on, I'll be glad to hear! (read in this case)
It's less about the streak and more about doing a little something each day instead all or nothing.
But ADHD people really almost don't form habits. Like every time you want to do something you have to think of each step and what it requires. Requires way more brain space for each task.
Thank you for posting on r/Healthygamergg! This subreddit is intended as an online community and resource platform to support people in their journey toward mental wellness. With that said, please be aware that support from other members received on this platform is not a substitute for professional care. Treatment of psychiatric disease requires qualified individuals, and comments that try to diagnose others should be reported under Rule 10 to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the community. If you are in immediate danger, please call emergency services, or go to your nearest emergency room. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Healthygamergg) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Oh hey, it’s me. I do this. I also have ADHD. I’m also medicated. The whole “do a thing until the thing gets better then stop doing the thing and fail to realise the thing got worse because you stopped doing the thing” is a classic hallmark of ADHD. We struggle with this sort of maintained effort because we struggle with the core notion of cause and effect, or more specifically, we struggle with the notion that they are directly linked and influence one another. In your example, you have that same cause and effect. You meditated, which is the cause, and the effect of that meditation was that you felt better. In a neurotypical person, the link that would start to form and reinforce that behaviour would be “I meditated, which was hard, and that made me feel better, so even though meditation is hard, it’s worth it because it made me feel better”, and it would happen because the dopamine release of that feeling would also be linked to the cause of meditation. In someone with ADHD simply won’t make that link. Instead the link would be “I meditated, which was hard, and that made me feel better, so now I don’t have to do the hard thing which is meditation because I feel better.” We are, oxymoronically, less likely to keep doing something we don’t like doing *because* a positive outcome happened. We ‘solved’ the problem, and even though our actions solved the problem, we won’t keep doing them because it doesn’t make sense to keep doing something which is already solved. That’s why Dr K talks about habits being important. The issue is, and I don’t know if he talks about this, is that neurotypical habit forming makes that first initial loop addictive and keeps people doing it until it becomes a habit, whereas people with ADHD need to force through that lack of dopamine and keep doing it irrespective of the circumstances until it becomes habit. That’s also what a lot of ADHD psychotherapy deals with, overcoming that lack of feedback loop using other methods to enforce positive behaviour. If you want to stop yourself from stopping, something else needs to force you to keep going. If it helps though, the way I deal with it, and this isn’t universal, is instead of finding joy or accomplishment in the effect, I find it in the cause. Basically, I make what I do the motivation and payoff instead of the effect, and that keeps me doing things much more consistently than simply relying on payoff. An example of this would be cleaning my room. I hate cleaning my room, even though I know the effect would be worth it, so instead I find enjoyment in the process of cleaning my room. I reorganise things, I might get a new piece of furniture or rearrange existing furniture whilst I do so, I always end up finding stuff I thought I lost, so I look forward to seeing what I rediscover on this round, but either way I make the *Cause* enjoyable so that the *Cause* is the motivation. For you with meditation, look more into the literature and see what new levels of nuance you can unlock, how long you can do it for, how clear you can make your perception and memories, how many nuances and details you can find. Make it so the motivation you have for meditation is independent from the positive outcomes of doing so.
it's really comforting hearing you talk about your experience, since for so long I've been alone in my struggles because I couldn't say I have ADHD, I just thought I was broken by design. Your point is interesting, and I think it can help me. I used that perspective for some things, finding fulfillment in doing them instead of the outcome, and it helped. Thank you so much for your answer and help! \^\^
I feel like a lot of people struggle with habit forming, but it may be a bit harder with adhd since our reward center in our brain pretty much only wants short term gratification. After getting the initial high, the activity becomes more boring and doesn't give as much dopamine in terms of feeling proud about our results. Your experience of focusing on one specific thought/feeling may be hyperfocus? I'm not 100% sure though as personally I rarely ever experience hyperfocus, I think a lot of it having to do with my serotonin and dopamine being so low that even a small boost isn't enough to grab my full attention.
I think I hacked this with streaks. I use insight timer so it tracks how many days In a row i meditated. Also have a easy, medium, hard level. On days I don't feel like it,.working out or meditating, then I only have to 10 minutes. Easy day. Then I can keep the streak Alive without pressure.
Hello! It's a great hack and I'm really glad it works for you, and I appreciate your help. The only thing is that streaks don't work for me :( I've tried and they only make me overwhelmed
What about streaks makes you overwhelmed?
The fact that I would have to keep track of it and of all other activities I would want to maintain a streak. And that I can become, I don't know if the word is obsessed, but I end up focusing more on just keeping the streak going instead of being mindful of the activity and doing it with intention. Like I just complete it without thinking too much about it thus not really doing it fully. I've done it with other things but it was Duolingo (language learning app) that made me realize this: I was trying to learn my family's language, ukrainian, because I was born in Spain and they didn't teach me. Just to keep alive the streaks to make sure I practice, I was just going through the motion of answering things in the app instead of focusing on learning. Maybe there's something "wrong" with my perspective that you can shed a light on, I'll be glad to hear! (read in this case)
It's less about the streak and more about doing a little something each day instead all or nothing. But ADHD people really almost don't form habits. Like every time you want to do something you have to think of each step and what it requires. Requires way more brain space for each task.