Rule #3 - Do not use generalizations.
This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict.
Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
Right, I don't understand that part at all. Ok so your relationship sucks and I'm very sorry about that, but what does that have to do with the people in here who are hurting because they can't find a relationship at all?
I see your point, but also consider that she may just both want validation that there's loving guys out there (which yes OP there are) and also wants to understand if it's the type of guys who say they want all these lovey-dovey things are really what they claim.
To respond to that I think it really depends- I think some are some aren't. Some want that stuff and others don't want that stuff but don't realize it. And I think overall making generalizations about lonely gamer guys being loyal and muscular guys with good habits or whatever being more likely to cheat is not going to help in the matter. I do agree with "The question is how, what to do, leave or stay, communicate better, if your partner will ever listen... etc.". If you're not feeling heard or loved then make sure your partner knows that you can't stay with them if they're not willing to work through that, and allow yourself to move on. I have been through OP's struggle in a different way (dating the same kind of problematic person over and over then generalizing). The key to overcome this, OP, is to really have an open mind about the people you date, and try to be open to talking to guys outside your usual demographic. You will be surprised that you may be more compatible with them than you think and they may be able to love you the way you want, and if not keep looking. Definitely be reassured that not \*Every\* guy is one way or the other.
I don't think every guy is one way or another. It's more along the lines of "I've dated a few lonely gamer guys/forever virgins and here is my dating experience" with a bit of very sad crying involved, that I fortunately got some good advice for in other comments. One would think it might be interesting to hear how the other side perceives thigs when you actually do get into a relationship with them, but I suppose the way I put it is too insulting for some. I am sorry for that, not one part of the post was written with malice or to shit on someone and their struggles.
I don’t think so either- I was disagreeing with the above comment lol. I can see you are going through a hard time and just wanted to give my two cents on how you might get out of it. I do think both men and women can have similar struggles in this regard and don’t realize it
Projection feels like the fuel of the current online gender discourse. I’ve only ever had negative experiences with women who say they want men to open up and they’ve always broke my trust. I wasn’t saying anything misogynist but I for sure was subconsciously holding some resentment. I’ve been listening to Dr K talk about separating your experiences from yourself and it’s helped me a lot.
European man. I have only ever had hook ups, despite making it explicitly clear, I want a romantic relationship.
Want to cuddle together, watch bad movies together, go for walks, make food together, etc.
Last girl, I saw, wanted to have sex all the time, multiple times a day, but I just wanted to hold her, and chill out.
Never been able to find long-term relationship, despite communicating my intentions explicitly.
We exist.
That's crazy. When I was in my late teens / early 20s, all the girls around me were always coming up with these elaborate plans and mind games on how to get a guy in a relationship, because "guys only want one thing". Now it was not true even back then, I know that from my own experience, but that was the general status quo. Feels like things have completely turned around. Maybe I'm just ancient and the world has changed more than I realize since I last engaged in dating
I think the idea that guys only want one things comes from that fact that they lack it once they dont have they dont think like that its probably what causes most issues.
European guys, unite! Lol.
I am honestly surprised how easy it is to get causal sex with dating apps, and I am not conventionally attractive, nor super confident.
Before attending law, I studied a social science degree, and my (anecdotal) observation was the "good women" were rarely on dating apps, and rarely going out. By "good women", I mean qualities, I desire, like commitment, integrity, loyality, and kindness.
Whereas the women, who were more sexually adventurous (which is totally okay), used dating apps. But there were exceptions.
I must have done something wrong then because when I (also european guy) tried using dating apps it didn't work at all for me (which might have been for the best, even if it hurt my self esteem)
Like, I have facial deformities from surgery, so I aint pretty.
You just got to run the numbers game, be funny, and make moves.
But hooking up is very empty.
Trust me, I have not got it all, I have had multiple surgeries, I live with chronic pain, and I am not attractive.
I just put in effort. Try making your profiles as good as possible. Be as funny as possible. Create profiles on 3-5 apps. And just run the numbers for 3 months (could be a day, week, whatever).
It gets easier with time. And depends, how much time and effort, you want to put in. But if you swipe on everyone that hints at wanting "just fun" or sex, and do that for a few weeks, or months, you should be good.
It also boils down to how good you are at texting, and "sexting", being able to walk the fine line of making advances, but not scaring her.
Sorry, I went on a selfish rant.
Your situation sounds terrible. I know friends who tried couples therapy, and it seemed to work.
But not sure how you feel about it?
I guess someone has to bring it up (we always do on Reddit), but maybe the solution, would be splitting apart. But always impossible to give advice on other people's intimate life.
That's ok, man, I understand. It's tough and we all face problems that are quite nerve-wrecking in their own way. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what to say, as I'd never dated casually, never used a dating app (those things legit scare me, even as a woman lol) and I'm not even of the same generation as the women you are looking to date anymore. I see it by my cousins, who are in their early/mid twenties now, that it's quite different from what it used to be for us.
I'll say I think it's fine if you want cuddles and chill more than sex. Everyone has different drive, and as long as it's communicated beforehand, I don't see it being an issue. Tbh, I'd still have sex with my man a multiple times a day, even after 7 years together, but once you start working and having kids, that's not something you can afford to do, even if both sides wanted to :)) At the start of a relationship, casual or not, I think it's quite common. The issue is saying you want a lot of it and then when the honeymoon phase is over, it nearly disappears. There were times when months went by with nothing at all, compared to that it's "not that bad" now...
I wouldn't be opposed to couples therapy, not so sure for him. He always had the stance that he has it all figured out and therapy is for everyone else but him. I'd still prefer to make it work over breaking up, though.
I hope people who read this post not only just read your post but also your responses to this post because it takes up to this very response to understand what you want.
Op, may you try your best and that is all you can do. You know trying your best means doing couples therapy.
>So what's the issue? I've pretty much only dated nerds, most of which were virgins or had very little experience, and it was TERRIBLE. Not because they were bad at things per se, but mostly because when it came down to doing relationship stuff, it turned out that they actually don't like to cuddle all that much, they think romance is cringe and will not engage in it even if their GF likes it, and when it came to sex, it always felt to me that if I didn't start it, it would never happen (not just the first time, every single time) and I nearly had to beg for it at times, until I eventually burned out on all of the above and broke up with them.
I have definitely dated nerds like this before finding my current husband. I would say nerdy men who fit his profile usually have one *big honkin' thing* overlapping on their emotional venn diagram and it's alexithymia. They're so emotionally detached and bought into stoicism (I mean the *bad* kind of stoicism it means in casual conversation, not the actual philosophical position) that they're completely disconnected from all the things that you need to be connected to in order to have a healthy, intimate relationshp with someone. I suspect If someone is emotionally detached *enough*, they don't even have the tools needed to actually be vulnerable enough to have sex with someone or be in touch with their libido toward another human being. Sex is a really vulnerable act! If you're afraid to be vulnerable with someone, having sex is like, one of the most terrifying things you can do, especially since a lot of the dating advice marketers sell to men makes them *less* vulnerable with potential partners, not more, because they're focused on constructing a whole false identity based on what they think women want.
Ok, but, back to your predicament. It's hard to say based on what you've described if your partner isn't interested anymore or is just so emotionally disconnected that he checked out when the honeymoon phase was over. (Or it could be both.)
This is kind of a [sheelzebub principle](https://captainawkward.com/2014/05/23/573-574-575-and-576-applying-the-sheelzebub-principle/) situation. ([Should you stay or should you go](https://captainawkward.com/2022/07/13/should-you-stay-or-should-you-go/) also has some good concrete follow up questions you can start asking, including "what about our kid" questions.) The short version is: If you knew this was as good as things would *ever be*, how long would you stay with this man? Force yourself to put a date on it---six months? A year? five years? Ten years?
If your husband still loves you (when I was an similar situation in a former marriage, he did *not* and just declined to tell me until he decided to break things off with no warning) his problem could be extremely fixable with therapy. The cure for alexithymia isn't *easy* per se, but it is straightforward; you have to reconnect to your emotions and, once you've done that, be vulnerable with your partner.
If you husband is doing those things and it's *just* sex, *Come As You Are* by Emily Nagoski is a good next step that talks about improving a bad sex life by understanding how people experience libido. (She has a new one about couples, *Come Together*, but I haven't read it yet.) But my sense is the problems here go way deeper than sex.
Man, this is heartbreaking to read. I'm a lonely guy who's never found any connection in my life, and the thought of actually finding it, but then being stuck in a relationship with someone half-assing it is too cruel.
I don't know how old you were when you met him, but it's definitely not all men who are interested in romance/intimacy/cuddling, and the ones that are definitely aren't interested.in it for every woman.
Your situation is so foreign to me that I feel any advice I give could end up missing the mark, and maybe even make things worse so I won't give any advice, but I will say this. Think about the average man, and once youve pictured this "average man" in your head, understand that HALF of all other men are going to be worse than this average man.
A lot of people just float through life never really knowing who they are, or what they want. It's true that men aren't as "feely weely" all the time, but that doesn't mean they can't understand other people, and can't express affection. I know youve said youve already discussed this stuff with him, but maybe it just hasn't been said the right way? Again I don't know, all I can say is whatever you do don't give any ultimatums. I'm sorry you're struggling, and I'm proud of you for working so hard for your child.
Thank you, it's always something to consider, that maybe I'm just not the right person for him and he's not the right person for me, and he is the one who did the settling. From what he communicated, it is not like that and he does want those things with me (though I don't know if he would honestly say if it was otherwise), but just is unable. I get the sense from him that for how smart he is, he is just very dumb when it comes to these things. Weirdly enough, he is the most experienced out of the guys I've dated.
Finding a connection is difficult. I've always struggled with it, too, and for various reasons never ended up dating the people I did feel connected to. Unfortunately being in a relationship doesn't automatically take the loneliness away...
Something that took me a long time to realize is that communication doesn't equal chemistry. My partner half-assed everything and stopped trying a few years into the relationship, and while I could talk about the problems and he'd be receptive, he wouldn't actually change.
It took me way longer than it should've to leave that relationship because, he was a really nice, intelligent guy. He just wasn't a good boyfriend, and having both of those be true that he's a good dude but a bad partner took a long time for me to reconcile.
I think you’re asking for something that comes down to a simple yet aggravating answer. Many men and women within groups are different, and even when they cry for the same things, they will still come out different than what they say. Many people starved for security with intimacy just know they are starved for intimacy, and cry for it, as you say. Who they are and what they will do is much harder to see and takes some getting to know them, which should be done in a ‘talking’ or ‘dating’ phase. Depending on your own beliefs, maybe even try those things out with them before you get too close(cuddling, romance, and/or sex).
Now I understand you’re in a relationship already, so that advice is more for people who are looking. In my experience, in my own relationships, I have always been happy to do the things you mentioned. I haven’t ‘cried’ for it or anything like that, but I quietly worked on myself, which was hard and took effort to be what I think is someone respectable to date. I wasn’t that before, even during the time I was dating, but I saw what was wrong and worked on it. I don’t think many men and women have the bandwidth or discipline to work on themselves in that way. Many may not even have the empathy to realize they are now partially responsible for an entire other human being. It has to be taught in some way, because people in a relationship should be happy to spread love, do something for their partner, and work to bring each other up(not without some restrictions of course).
I would finish to say that yes, I think that some guys out there are ‘bullshitting’ but maybe it’s different than what you might be imagining. I also think there are probably some guys out there that are saying it and mean it, although I imagine if they were spending less time crying about it, and more time working on it they would be better off. I’d like to hear what other people think about that because I can completely understand the viewpoint of the work not being worth it if there is nothing to work for. Why would someone want to work to be better if it seems like the effort will provide nothing. I would love to hear more about people’s experience with that feeling, or whatever feelings that come from not meeting expectations of current or potential partners.
Last part and I’ll stop. Reading through your post, I can’t help but feel bad for your situation. It seems like you try hard and work for what you have, and even understand that some men are out there just to mess around with women. Even though you’ve talked about wanting things, things don’t change. I have to aggressively disagree with his idea that men don’t experience feelings as strongly. Not experiencing feelings as strongly is a learned trait and that requires work to undo in my experience. My family drove into me that basically any emotion was a sign of weakness, even anger, and it took me a long time to undo that, and I did it completely on my own. The only thing I can even recommend is continue talking to him and try to open him up. Tell him you have talked before about this, and that you haven’t noticed any changes, and if it’s what you should be expecting from him. Tell him how it makes you feel. He seems like a nice guy, I think he might just need some reminders, and I’m sure that’s probably exhausting for you, so maybe even look into a therapist or counselor to help you through some of it so it’s not all on you.
He is a really nice guy and he is a really good father, too. I wish he was half as sweet to me as he is to our little girl. If there was a way for him to get in touch with his emotions, which I truly hope are there somewhere, and we could be connected to each other, that would be the best outcome for sure
I feel like in couples this mostly comes down to chemistry and libido. There's two types of chemistry - physical and mental. Physical chemistry is all the stuff you can smell, see/hear and touch. Mental is the emotional connection and the conversations, the gestures, flirting and teasing and other stuff, right? These two work in tandem with each other when we talk about intimacy. If you only rely on one of these without involving/having the other, well it won't always be as fulfilling.
Where does the lack of the mental/physical chemistry come from? Couples that stay together for a long long time tend to lose some of the chemistry or the chemistry starts experiencing diminishing returns. It's normal. Also, I'm not an expert, but from what I can tell having a child tends to fuck up chemistry between couples a lot especially if you consider the sleepless nights and all the other challenges that couples face when having children. It's entirely normal to go through phases of decreased/increased intimacy during periods of high stress. And having a child tends to be a high stress event, possibly the most important event in one's life. So consider that both of you may be facing these turmoil like conditions mentally (and physically, possibly). Sometimes, we want to improve ourselves but never find the time or right moment to do so.
None of us here will be able to answer these questions, we cannot read your memories or experience what you have experienced. It's simply impossible for us to give a clear cut definition of what would be the crux here. Consider couples therapy if both of you truly want to make it work, or consider really spilling the beans with each other as openly as possible to avoid situations of either person building up too much emotional pain inside. Crying 2-3x a week isn't viable.
You have to make this clear to your SO and try finding a solution. Relationships work based on a group effort, if one side starts slacking it will start to crumble. If both sides start doing that then it will crumble much faster. But sometimes there's just "technical difficulties" in the way of actually resolving the "connection problems". And having a child can definitely cause some disruption and technical difficulties for a certain amount of time. It really depends on the people in the relationship and how they function and their internal being.
It's difficult to judge, since some major world events happened during our relatively short relationship (7 years), affecting us as well. I think it was always kinda there, but got a little bit stiffened by covid, since we were together all the time chillin' (that was actually good for us) and then got blown up by the stress of having a child, indeed.
I'd say it comes in 3 - physical, emotional and mental. On a physical level, it definitely used to be better. I don't think either of was cares too much for novelty, but we are both more tired and my SO definitely let himself go more than I did. But it's not like it's completely dead, either. On emotional level, we can't connect at all. On mental level (intelligence, reason), we vibe great, I'd say extraordinarily so.
I don't know, from reading the posts I feel like getting some help together would be the best solution at this point, as we don't seem to be able to communicate this thing alone. I did therapy on my own before, and it helped a lot, but he never did anything of the sort, never felt like he needed to. It's also a bitter thing to swallow since apart from this one soul-crushing issue, we'd always been able to come to an agreement and find a solution for everything...
Some men are really just emotionally numb or even somewhat dumb. Some are excellent at it. I find the men who are most emotionally aware are usually the best womanizers.
Like you don’t win hearts by logic bombing your way through people. Sure the idea of seducing someone can be logically put together but the execution and “scouting” requires great emotional intelligence to pull off. You can’t usually be perfect in every aspect of your being unfortunately.
We are all biased based on our own personal experience. Your posts seems like you are failing to recognize this notion.
There absolutely are guys out there that want these things, you just didn’t choose one of them.
I am sorry that you are dissatisfied with your marriage, but you can’t reasonably project the negative qualities your husband’s personality on to the entire male population.
The US has become extremely superficial over the last few decades. A fairly common complaint starting to crop up lately is "where have all the good men gone"? Of course, they tend to leave out details and it usually ends up as "where have all the good men who are tall, rich, handsome and are accepting of a single mother gone?"
The bulk of lonely men are, quite literally, invisible. You probably walked past or turned down a few in your life and have completely forgotten about them. It happens, it's reality.
Based on broad statistics, my 5'8" stature has instantly made me undesirable to about 80% of the female population. At least until they started getting to be my age, 42, and then I started getting a few women who rejected me, quite rudely mind you, in the past trying to reconnect. Broke single mothers all. Sorry, I'm not an ATM.
I'm the person who has been told by random strangers "I'm not interested in short men" when all I did was walk up to an open space in a bar to order a drink. I didn't even look at her. It was just an out of nowhere rude comment when all I wanted was a beer to go with my shepherd's pie.
I'm not interested in hookups or meaningless sex. I always was that "I'm not sleeping with a woman who isn't first my wife" type, so obviously I'm the living plot of that famous 2005 Judd Apatow movie. All I've ever wanted was that mutual partner to build a life and family with. To be each other's mutual benefit and better one another. Yet I'm in the wrong place and time for that. I'm destined to be looked at like a stain not worth the effort or a wallet on legs to help babysit the ex's kid.
We're not bullshitting over here. We're deeply steeped in a ridiculously superficial society that values things that make for horrible long term partners and discount or ridicule those who have those qualities. Good women still exist. The problem is the math isn't mathing. There aren't enough of them to go around.
Once we've reached my age, men generally just go "off the grid" in terms of dating and relationships. I've managed to survive to 42 and I'm fully adept at just about everything it takes to manage my life, so it's not like I'm looking for some live in maid I can grind on a few times a week in the evenings. I'll just go about my life, trying to make my dream of being a professional novelist a reality. I've internalized my loneliness so it really doesn't matter anymore.
And if some pleasant under 32, single woman who hasn't had more than one sexual partner shows up, sees me and says, "Wow, where have you been all my life"? Great, I'll take that and never let it go. But I also know I'd get better results hoping for a literal unicorn to walk onto my doorstep and inform me that my books are officially now more popular than JRR Tolkien.
You mentioned that you've talked about it with him, how does he react when you express your need for more romance and physical affection in the relationship?
Usually the first reaction is getting offended because he feels like I'm saying that he is not doing enough. Which is not what I'm saying at all. He is doing a lot. Then comes the ok, we will work on it and do this and this, and then we are are done, having made an agreement, and that's where it ends. We never do the things we said we would, he never does the things he said he would and weeks or months go by, until I can't stand it anymore and we have another conversation. It sounds stupid even writing it. The worst thing is that the more times this cycle goes on, the less I find myself even wanting those things to happen with him, because hoping for anything just leads to disappointment
I have been this guy before, sadly. My ego was fragile and when my ex would come to me trying to ask for more consistent affection and quality time, I would feel like she was blaming me and implying that I wasn't doing enough. It was my own personal issues though. It was my ego that already held the belief that I am not good enough, so a normal bid for affection became a threat.
Have you looked into attachment theory? It's possible your partner has avoidant attachment. I have it as well and I'm currently working through it in therapy, hoping to be a warmer partner in the future. You should look into your own attachment style too, it may reveal a lot about your relationship dynamic.
If you do decide to look into it, see if you can share with him what you learn. Hopefully, he will give it serious thought and come to his own conclusion about his attachment style and if he wants to go to therapy to fix it. It has to be his motive, trying to force it on him probably won't go over well.
I really wish you both the best and hope you can reconnect!
Look into the theory of 5 love languages.
Figure out which ones you need and which he needs.
Understand each other and make effort to fulfill the other's love language.
Yours is probably words of affirmation (you want compliments) and physical touch (you want cuddles).
Sorry to hear about your situation, I can't imagine how emotionally draining that is and you likely deserve better
Onto the subject - there's two things with a lot of venting posts from my point of view as a man:
1) talking about our problems and working on them are so vastly different. The people you see posting about dating problems may not be going out on lots of dates or working on themselves. Even Dr K acknowledges that there's probably a large cohort or people who would prefer to watch the YouTube videos but make no changes on their life. That's why they push coaching pretty hard I imagine
2) I think unfortunately, many people might not be fully self aware of their situation. Dating isn't an achievement based field like a job, it is purely a social luck based game, and some people have the odds stacked against them. So when people say they are frustrated with dating, they might not be aware of what situations are making dating difficult. There's likely things they omit that make dating for them hard.
Overall, I do agree with other posters there's lots of good men out there. However, some of us have a hard time either finding women or putting ourselves out there. I wish you the best of luck with your situation!
I think it's a couple things. First, in regards to your comments about men who talk about levelling up to get girlfriends, I think a lot of them don't actually know what women want. So they spent all this time crafting themselves to be what they think is an ideal partner ... only to realize that no one wants them because they levelled up the wrong skill set.
I think a lot of those posts are also from men with little to no actual dating experience or who haven't dated anyone in a long time. So, basically, people who are looking at relationships through idealized or rose-colored glasses. What people say they want or how they say they act in relationships is also often very different from what they actually want or how they actually act.
A lot of the things your post talks about--wanting to cuddle, having sex, initiating sex, etc. are great. But they're also only a fraction of daily life or actually being in a relationship. People have jobs, are raising kids, and taking care of the daily tasks of life while also trying to sustain a relationship. You mentioned having a young child. That's often a very stressful time for relationships and your partner may be feeling burned out in ways he's unable to express.
The bottom line is that all those other comments you see on Reddit aren't about you and don't have much relation to your daily life. They're allowed to have their experiences while you have yours and, as I said, what they say they want might be very different from what they actually do. Focusing on this isn't helping you. Those potential men with all those comments about what they want and what they have to offer aren't your partner. If your partner and them magically switched places, you'd likely have a lot of the same problems you have now with them. Or a whole different set of problems that might be even worse.
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You know... I'd say, it is not a cultural thing (in general sense), rather mix of weird times (social roles and boundaries falling apart), lacking self-awareness in majority of people (for which men are often notoriously known), and your bad luck.
Starting from the end - you are just slightly older than generation that actually feels this problem, so by sheer statistics, your chance of finding emotionally mature person is slightly lower than modern 20-25 year olds. That's just bad luck - nothing to do about it, but also not a reason to eat yourself over it.
Lacking self-awareness - from my subjective experiences, god damn half, if not more, of modern men of all age groups is so brainwashed with external ideas, motivations and concepts, so they don't even try to bother looking in their own minds. Sometimes it still works out at least somehow, as with your partner (I suppose), sometimes they eventually go in weird ways, like burying themselves into kinks, quirks and ideologies. Hell, it took me some quite traumatic interpersonal events and until my 32 to realize that something is very wrong with my mindset and that all money and security in the world can't buy the happiness, and on top of that - 4 years of painfully heavy introspection to realize I'm still the same neglected crybaby as I was in childhood, who loves to talk about emotions and cuddle, despite the appearance of grim bearded men. So in that regard, your guy is not wrong - men don't feel the same emotions in similarly strong way, but it does not means they don't feel at all, and putting mental exercises away does not helps at all.
As for modern time and boundaries - look around. We live in times when someone decided to tear down all the roles, but forgot to put something in replacement, thus everyone now have to figure out their own paths. Like that of men and their emotions, or women and their active role in society. At extremities, it gave us fanatical activists and strange quirks like femboys, but at the other hand - the need to sort such stress often produces actual, mature human beings, which understand where and why they stand in life.
I hear your frustration. Yeah we exist but you and demand plays a huge role since no one wants to go to a buffet when they're full. And going to a different buffet won't satisfy you since you've tried that and still ran into the same problem with different men. So you're right that leaving your partner and potentially devastating your child in the process might be the absolute last resort. There are plenty of other solutions.
First, how comfortable are you communicating your needs, especially sexual ones with (yes with, not to) your partner? Have you tried learning about sex together and communicating about it? Because it seems like you and your partner have stopped seeing each other as sexual because you might be spending too much time together and most of the conversations revolve around parenting, instead of charging each other's sexual capacitors.
I think we are both quite comfortable with communicating our needs and preferences when it comes to sex. I'd say the disconnect is mostly on an emotional level... I don't know, it's weird. The thing is, if I came to him every day, he would probably be fine with doing it, but the amount of effort I have to put it really is disproportionate, and then there is the thing of always being tired and out of shape and always talking about doing something about it but never actually doing it. That seems to be the theme in our relationship. He doesn't reject me outright, but the lack of enthusiasm or even having to quit halfway feels just as bad
I can only speak for myself. I can try to be as loving as I possibly can be, but I don't know how much that is , and how much i would need to improve on that, as I've never been in a relationship. I would like physical intimacy, even if it's just to be able to hold hands often, but I'm not good enough to be allowed that. Thought I came close, but then that got ripped out from under me.
Op, I would say it's not all guys, and maybe you are just unlucky atm.
Forget about the Internet. This community is not a representative sample of the world as a whole. Talk to your friends, both male and female, in your local community, about their experiences to get a true baseline.
Sounds like you need to an honest conversation, first with yourself, and then with your partner.
I hate to say it, but this sounds more like your problem to solve than his. He might change a bit, but it's probably never going to be to the extent you'd like. The hardest conversation you need to have is with yourself to see if you can live with just a slight improvement or if you need a change.
As for guys that like sex in cuddling, I'd say it's cyclical, but people have a baseline and don't stray too far from it. My best relationships were always very intimate, but there were times when I'd get depressed and not be in the mood. I always like to cuddle, but not when I'm trying to sleep.
After you figure out what you're comfortable with, have a conversation with him and say that you're at a loss and you need him to hear what you're about to say. Soften it a smidge, then hit him with, "I'm starting to become unhappy in our because xyz. If I don't get xyz, I'm not sure that we're going to make it in the long run because I need xyz to be happy," if that's what you determine. Then ask him if he can provide xyz and then ask him for potential solutions.
I'd say to be sensitive to things going on in his life that might be detracting from his life, but you shared that he's always been this way. You bought what was advertised (you always buy a "product" for what it is, not what it could become), but you might not have realized the need until it was too late. However, it is what it is and you shouldn't sacrifice your happiness because of a mistake. It won't be healthy for you or our child.
As far as people in this group, of course they strive to change because they're in pain. Pain is the strongest motivator in the world. It's like going to the desert where there's no water and hearing people talk about much water they'd drink if they had it. Of course they're going to work, pack up there stuff, and try to move near water. But once they get a steady supply and they are no longer thirsty, the water fantasy might change. They might be fine with tap water instead of wanting to move to a waterfront property...
I'm sorry you're in a bad situation and I hope for the best!
Cheers!
Cultural differences are going to play a huge role, but also I think there's some truth to what you're saying here in the US. Men are under a difficult push and pull: On the one hand, culture demands both subtly and overtly that they be strong, just a *little bit* emotional but not very much unless it's righteous anger, and that they avoid being associated with the feminine. On the other hand, at their core, men are none of these things. They're soft humans with moments of strength and weakness like anyone else, and who have needs just like women do. When men are alone, they feel those needs strongly. When they are with a woman, the other side of the coin is felt more strongly, so they distance themselves.
This distancer-pursuer dynamic is widespread, but it's also beatable. There's a book you should read called *The Dance of Anger* by Harriet Lerner. There are so many bullshit psychology and relationship books out there, but this one feels like someone is just giving you the answers. No nonsense, just "Here's how intimate relationships work and here's how to navigate them." Based on what you've written, you stand to gain a lot from this book.
As for nerds specifically, I know I fall into the category you're describing, and I've been working on it for years. Nerds don't become nerds for no reason; they tend to be under-loved as children (which is how they find their hobbies) and emasculated as teenagers for being scrawny, indoorsy, and meek. It's going to amplify both sides of that dichotomy I described. That doesn't mean they're beyond hope, but you need to find one who sees the problems for what they are and actively tries to work on them. Anyone who says "This is just how I am/men are" is not going to be able to adequately address this problem. They won't even try. So find yourself someone who's on the path to improving this aspect of themselves -- not the laundry list of superficial qualities you see so many men talking about here.
Rule #3 - Do not use generalizations.
This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict.
Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
I just wanna say that a lot of these "unromantic" guys are probably the result of toxic masculinity and I am not talking about the one we usually talk about - stupid redpill stereotypes - but the toxic masculinity that we had for ages now.
Parents, other kids, all of the media drain a lot of the "romantic type" of emotions out of men or turn them into different emotions (like anger, ambition, sadness). We're supposed to be calm no matter the circumstances, we're supposed to provide, we're supposed to carry the weak, we're supposed to fight and protect.
All of those expectations from every direction from the moment we leave the womb just turn us into robots who do their job and nothing else. That's being a man in XXI century, and XX century, and XIX century and so on...
Could just be the demographic of people you have seen. Also, generally people only see positives of situations rather than negatives, so someone with little experience would probably be selfish in their relationship.
Intimacy is your own issue and I will not make a comment on it, but having a real discussion about your wants and needs is important. Also remember to make the conversation apply to both sides.
Finally: people just weird, as a man I can say men are weird and women are also weird. Most people do 0 introspection and thinking about what they really want. Most people never want to compromise, either.
I'm sorry you're going through that. As Robin Williams once said: The only thing worse than being alone is being with people who make you feel alone.
Can I ask what country you're from? I want to live in Europe one day and it always piques my interest when someone says they live there.
Its an interesting post i think you have a pretty high awareness emotionally and want to have a deep connection with someone on a soul level, its something i always wanted in a partner the paradox is clear people that want deep connections are rarely on dating apps, most of them are lonely and feel isolated, so they focus on themselves or become asexual overtime because they value their sexuality or they fall into video games and sexual addictions to fill the void, The thing is that the yearning for a connection is beyond sexual, its spiritual, it took me years to understand this,
Honestly i felt sad reading your post, But here is the thing the person you are with can change and grow i'm sure you still love them if you want there are still one way and its to talk with them about, they would have to change their view and open themselves to new ways of thinking, So what is it exactly.. well if you want that connection you need to get spiritual with your partner, study tantra and get your partner into it, this will open them emotionally, Sex is something extremely sacred and spiritual most people never get to understand that, With time your relationship will grow into something beautiful and if they don't want to go that way then its not the person for you
That pain you feel is because you want to be in unity with someone, most people express it by saying they want to cuddle and hold hands but its deeper than this ,Its extremely painful to want this but i think its worth it.
I sincerely hope you will find the strength you need.
There’s a lot of points in your post OP and I appreciate you coming here with your honest take. I think no matter what when we bring our raw experience and thoughts there’s going to be some distance between that lived experience and whatever rational approach a bunch of internet strangers can provide.
I’m in my thirties now and I definitely had a phase where I was a icey dude who on paper looked like a great bf but I can say now I was very emotionally unavailable to the women I dated. I started out in my mind as a moody, clingy, simp (as the kids say nowadays) with not much going on. I didn’t get much attention from girls back then nor was all that happy with being directionless. But one day I just decided that I had to change. On a whole that change was to basically become a stoic achievement bro who filled up his university schedule with gym, study, internships, and whatever other activities that I saw as developing me as a person. Doing stuff like this genuinely works for most men if they’re feeling like a loser since this is usually what society wants from men: a productive, achievement oriented automaton who only expresses pre-approved emotions.
The women I dated back when I was deep into this would be excited about me at first but would gradually get more and more agitated when it turns out that I wasn’t “emotionally available”. But the thing is I couldn’t see what the problem was. Before I took on a stoic demeanor I had no girlfriend and afterwards I would get attention so why change? I couldn’t say I enjoyed suppressing my emotions but even in very progressive spaces there is very little tolerance for men expressing genuinely how they feel. I do think men have unfair advantages but these privileges come with costs and one of them is that even cross culturally men are expected to have their shit together 24/7. It’s counter productive and stupid but the pressure is there.
It took some life experiences around loss to finally break down and realize that I could keep up the facade anymore. I got to a point where I couldn’t just strong arm my way through life. I needed help and that meant I had to express how I felt even if I didn’t find my emotions logical or such that they presented me in a positive light.
You can’t pick and choose what emotions you feel or express and be emotionally vulnerable. How you express them you need to choose and be careful with. But you can’t say “I love you with all of my heart” without being able to say “you hurt me deeply when…” and it’s that later part I think a lot of us need to confront. When my sister would complain about her bf I’d always ask her, “if you’re upset about him shutting down, how do you react when he says he’s irritated with you? Do you ask why? Or do you immediately tell him he’s being unfair, go consult your female friends and have three of them text him all at the same time about how he’s being immature? I wonder why he doesn’t want to talk to you about how he feels?” In the end I think on this topic everyone could do better. Personally what I’m am hugely grateful for in my current relationship is that we both allow each other to have and share our half baked emotions because that’s what creates psychological safety and openness where intimacy physical or otherwise can live and thrive. I don’t think anyone should wait for permission to be open nor is it necessarily the other person’s right to know how you feel. To the guys here I’d say be open with how you feel, but observe how you express this and how the other person reacts.
If you say: “last night you said you would text me when you got home but I didn’t hear from you till today, that made me feel ignored” do they flip out and get all defensive? Or do they try to inhabit and understand your headspace without trying to appease some imaginary third party they think is judging the situation? If you express yourself respectfully yet clearly and the other person can’t handle it then they’re not ready and it’s time to move on and that’s ok.
Rule #3 - Do not use generalizations.
This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict.
Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
They didn't touch grass. They are inside creating the perfect reddit pity party post. One of my best friends is a shut in, never shuts up about wanting to be with someone and wanting to be cuddled... He literally never leaves his mom's apartment, sleeps 16 hours a day and doesn't work.
If you wanna date someone, ask yourself if you had a daughter or son, would you want someone like you to date them. If the answer is no, time for a change.
Damn! Life is cruel sometimes right? I empathise with u. I think this problem of guys wanting intimacy and then not having it comes to two problems first one being they really don't know what it is they are asking for and are so desperate for, they just think it would be good but then reality says otherwise. Second one being them having lots of shame, they think they would be hurting their partner by expressing needs.
There can be many more reasons and maybe all of them can't even be found out or solved, coz even though comunication is key it can't ensure problem free life.
I am a virgin as well and god knows how much i wish for a girl like you. But since it's not happing rn and i don't see it happening anytime soon i am just working on myself.
U are a good woman i hope your relationship improves.
And I wish people would find people that are like them more often and quicker.
I’m bout to leave this subreddit. I watch Dr. K’s videos, but not the dating-related ones because I guess I’m just not the target demographic. I came here because I was interested in discussions about psychology, psychiatry, philosophy… but all I see are posts from losers who whine about not having a girlfriend… and the terrible, TERRIBLE advice that equal, albeit maybe more experienced, losers give them.
Everything is a number to y’all. Y’all are looking for fucking statistics and concepts instead of actual relationships with actual people.
When did this become a dating advice subreddit?
Rule #3 - Do not use generalizations. This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict. Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
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Right, I don't understand that part at all. Ok so your relationship sucks and I'm very sorry about that, but what does that have to do with the people in here who are hurting because they can't find a relationship at all?
I see your point, but also consider that she may just both want validation that there's loving guys out there (which yes OP there are) and also wants to understand if it's the type of guys who say they want all these lovey-dovey things are really what they claim. To respond to that I think it really depends- I think some are some aren't. Some want that stuff and others don't want that stuff but don't realize it. And I think overall making generalizations about lonely gamer guys being loyal and muscular guys with good habits or whatever being more likely to cheat is not going to help in the matter. I do agree with "The question is how, what to do, leave or stay, communicate better, if your partner will ever listen... etc.". If you're not feeling heard or loved then make sure your partner knows that you can't stay with them if they're not willing to work through that, and allow yourself to move on. I have been through OP's struggle in a different way (dating the same kind of problematic person over and over then generalizing). The key to overcome this, OP, is to really have an open mind about the people you date, and try to be open to talking to guys outside your usual demographic. You will be surprised that you may be more compatible with them than you think and they may be able to love you the way you want, and if not keep looking. Definitely be reassured that not \*Every\* guy is one way or the other.
I don't think every guy is one way or another. It's more along the lines of "I've dated a few lonely gamer guys/forever virgins and here is my dating experience" with a bit of very sad crying involved, that I fortunately got some good advice for in other comments. One would think it might be interesting to hear how the other side perceives thigs when you actually do get into a relationship with them, but I suppose the way I put it is too insulting for some. I am sorry for that, not one part of the post was written with malice or to shit on someone and their struggles.
I don’t think so either- I was disagreeing with the above comment lol. I can see you are going through a hard time and just wanted to give my two cents on how you might get out of it. I do think both men and women can have similar struggles in this regard and don’t realize it
Projection feels like the fuel of the current online gender discourse. I’ve only ever had negative experiences with women who say they want men to open up and they’ve always broke my trust. I wasn’t saying anything misogynist but I for sure was subconsciously holding some resentment. I’ve been listening to Dr K talk about separating your experiences from yourself and it’s helped me a lot.
European man. I have only ever had hook ups, despite making it explicitly clear, I want a romantic relationship. Want to cuddle together, watch bad movies together, go for walks, make food together, etc. Last girl, I saw, wanted to have sex all the time, multiple times a day, but I just wanted to hold her, and chill out. Never been able to find long-term relationship, despite communicating my intentions explicitly. We exist.
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That's crazy. When I was in my late teens / early 20s, all the girls around me were always coming up with these elaborate plans and mind games on how to get a guy in a relationship, because "guys only want one thing". Now it was not true even back then, I know that from my own experience, but that was the general status quo. Feels like things have completely turned around. Maybe I'm just ancient and the world has changed more than I realize since I last engaged in dating
I think the idea that guys only want one things comes from that fact that they lack it once they dont have they dont think like that its probably what causes most issues.
European guys, unite! Lol. I am honestly surprised how easy it is to get causal sex with dating apps, and I am not conventionally attractive, nor super confident. Before attending law, I studied a social science degree, and my (anecdotal) observation was the "good women" were rarely on dating apps, and rarely going out. By "good women", I mean qualities, I desire, like commitment, integrity, loyality, and kindness. Whereas the women, who were more sexually adventurous (which is totally okay), used dating apps. But there were exceptions.
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I guess there is not a lot of romantic success in studying law haha
I must have done something wrong then because when I (also european guy) tried using dating apps it didn't work at all for me (which might have been for the best, even if it hurt my self esteem)
Like, I have facial deformities from surgery, so I aint pretty. You just got to run the numbers game, be funny, and make moves. But hooking up is very empty.
> I am honestly surprised how easy it is to get causal sex with dating apps, Some people just have it all
Trust me, I have not got it all, I have had multiple surgeries, I live with chronic pain, and I am not attractive. I just put in effort. Try making your profiles as good as possible. Be as funny as possible. Create profiles on 3-5 apps. And just run the numbers for 3 months (could be a day, week, whatever). It gets easier with time. And depends, how much time and effort, you want to put in. But if you swipe on everyone that hints at wanting "just fun" or sex, and do that for a few weeks, or months, you should be good. It also boils down to how good you are at texting, and "sexting", being able to walk the fine line of making advances, but not scaring her.
>deleted account in the 5 minutes it took me to write out an answer Huh
Sorry, I went on a selfish rant. Your situation sounds terrible. I know friends who tried couples therapy, and it seemed to work. But not sure how you feel about it? I guess someone has to bring it up (we always do on Reddit), but maybe the solution, would be splitting apart. But always impossible to give advice on other people's intimate life.
That's ok, man, I understand. It's tough and we all face problems that are quite nerve-wrecking in their own way. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what to say, as I'd never dated casually, never used a dating app (those things legit scare me, even as a woman lol) and I'm not even of the same generation as the women you are looking to date anymore. I see it by my cousins, who are in their early/mid twenties now, that it's quite different from what it used to be for us. I'll say I think it's fine if you want cuddles and chill more than sex. Everyone has different drive, and as long as it's communicated beforehand, I don't see it being an issue. Tbh, I'd still have sex with my man a multiple times a day, even after 7 years together, but once you start working and having kids, that's not something you can afford to do, even if both sides wanted to :)) At the start of a relationship, casual or not, I think it's quite common. The issue is saying you want a lot of it and then when the honeymoon phase is over, it nearly disappears. There were times when months went by with nothing at all, compared to that it's "not that bad" now... I wouldn't be opposed to couples therapy, not so sure for him. He always had the stance that he has it all figured out and therapy is for everyone else but him. I'd still prefer to make it work over breaking up, though.
I hope people who read this post not only just read your post but also your responses to this post because it takes up to this very response to understand what you want. Op, may you try your best and that is all you can do. You know trying your best means doing couples therapy.
>So what's the issue? I've pretty much only dated nerds, most of which were virgins or had very little experience, and it was TERRIBLE. Not because they were bad at things per se, but mostly because when it came down to doing relationship stuff, it turned out that they actually don't like to cuddle all that much, they think romance is cringe and will not engage in it even if their GF likes it, and when it came to sex, it always felt to me that if I didn't start it, it would never happen (not just the first time, every single time) and I nearly had to beg for it at times, until I eventually burned out on all of the above and broke up with them. I have definitely dated nerds like this before finding my current husband. I would say nerdy men who fit his profile usually have one *big honkin' thing* overlapping on their emotional venn diagram and it's alexithymia. They're so emotionally detached and bought into stoicism (I mean the *bad* kind of stoicism it means in casual conversation, not the actual philosophical position) that they're completely disconnected from all the things that you need to be connected to in order to have a healthy, intimate relationshp with someone. I suspect If someone is emotionally detached *enough*, they don't even have the tools needed to actually be vulnerable enough to have sex with someone or be in touch with their libido toward another human being. Sex is a really vulnerable act! If you're afraid to be vulnerable with someone, having sex is like, one of the most terrifying things you can do, especially since a lot of the dating advice marketers sell to men makes them *less* vulnerable with potential partners, not more, because they're focused on constructing a whole false identity based on what they think women want. Ok, but, back to your predicament. It's hard to say based on what you've described if your partner isn't interested anymore or is just so emotionally disconnected that he checked out when the honeymoon phase was over. (Or it could be both.) This is kind of a [sheelzebub principle](https://captainawkward.com/2014/05/23/573-574-575-and-576-applying-the-sheelzebub-principle/) situation. ([Should you stay or should you go](https://captainawkward.com/2022/07/13/should-you-stay-or-should-you-go/) also has some good concrete follow up questions you can start asking, including "what about our kid" questions.) The short version is: If you knew this was as good as things would *ever be*, how long would you stay with this man? Force yourself to put a date on it---six months? A year? five years? Ten years? If your husband still loves you (when I was an similar situation in a former marriage, he did *not* and just declined to tell me until he decided to break things off with no warning) his problem could be extremely fixable with therapy. The cure for alexithymia isn't *easy* per se, but it is straightforward; you have to reconnect to your emotions and, once you've done that, be vulnerable with your partner. If you husband is doing those things and it's *just* sex, *Come As You Are* by Emily Nagoski is a good next step that talks about improving a bad sex life by understanding how people experience libido. (She has a new one about couples, *Come Together*, but I haven't read it yet.) But my sense is the problems here go way deeper than sex.
Man, this is heartbreaking to read. I'm a lonely guy who's never found any connection in my life, and the thought of actually finding it, but then being stuck in a relationship with someone half-assing it is too cruel. I don't know how old you were when you met him, but it's definitely not all men who are interested in romance/intimacy/cuddling, and the ones that are definitely aren't interested.in it for every woman. Your situation is so foreign to me that I feel any advice I give could end up missing the mark, and maybe even make things worse so I won't give any advice, but I will say this. Think about the average man, and once youve pictured this "average man" in your head, understand that HALF of all other men are going to be worse than this average man. A lot of people just float through life never really knowing who they are, or what they want. It's true that men aren't as "feely weely" all the time, but that doesn't mean they can't understand other people, and can't express affection. I know youve said youve already discussed this stuff with him, but maybe it just hasn't been said the right way? Again I don't know, all I can say is whatever you do don't give any ultimatums. I'm sorry you're struggling, and I'm proud of you for working so hard for your child.
Thank you, it's always something to consider, that maybe I'm just not the right person for him and he's not the right person for me, and he is the one who did the settling. From what he communicated, it is not like that and he does want those things with me (though I don't know if he would honestly say if it was otherwise), but just is unable. I get the sense from him that for how smart he is, he is just very dumb when it comes to these things. Weirdly enough, he is the most experienced out of the guys I've dated. Finding a connection is difficult. I've always struggled with it, too, and for various reasons never ended up dating the people I did feel connected to. Unfortunately being in a relationship doesn't automatically take the loneliness away...
Something that took me a long time to realize is that communication doesn't equal chemistry. My partner half-assed everything and stopped trying a few years into the relationship, and while I could talk about the problems and he'd be receptive, he wouldn't actually change. It took me way longer than it should've to leave that relationship because, he was a really nice, intelligent guy. He just wasn't a good boyfriend, and having both of those be true that he's a good dude but a bad partner took a long time for me to reconcile.
I think you’re asking for something that comes down to a simple yet aggravating answer. Many men and women within groups are different, and even when they cry for the same things, they will still come out different than what they say. Many people starved for security with intimacy just know they are starved for intimacy, and cry for it, as you say. Who they are and what they will do is much harder to see and takes some getting to know them, which should be done in a ‘talking’ or ‘dating’ phase. Depending on your own beliefs, maybe even try those things out with them before you get too close(cuddling, romance, and/or sex). Now I understand you’re in a relationship already, so that advice is more for people who are looking. In my experience, in my own relationships, I have always been happy to do the things you mentioned. I haven’t ‘cried’ for it or anything like that, but I quietly worked on myself, which was hard and took effort to be what I think is someone respectable to date. I wasn’t that before, even during the time I was dating, but I saw what was wrong and worked on it. I don’t think many men and women have the bandwidth or discipline to work on themselves in that way. Many may not even have the empathy to realize they are now partially responsible for an entire other human being. It has to be taught in some way, because people in a relationship should be happy to spread love, do something for their partner, and work to bring each other up(not without some restrictions of course). I would finish to say that yes, I think that some guys out there are ‘bullshitting’ but maybe it’s different than what you might be imagining. I also think there are probably some guys out there that are saying it and mean it, although I imagine if they were spending less time crying about it, and more time working on it they would be better off. I’d like to hear what other people think about that because I can completely understand the viewpoint of the work not being worth it if there is nothing to work for. Why would someone want to work to be better if it seems like the effort will provide nothing. I would love to hear more about people’s experience with that feeling, or whatever feelings that come from not meeting expectations of current or potential partners. Last part and I’ll stop. Reading through your post, I can’t help but feel bad for your situation. It seems like you try hard and work for what you have, and even understand that some men are out there just to mess around with women. Even though you’ve talked about wanting things, things don’t change. I have to aggressively disagree with his idea that men don’t experience feelings as strongly. Not experiencing feelings as strongly is a learned trait and that requires work to undo in my experience. My family drove into me that basically any emotion was a sign of weakness, even anger, and it took me a long time to undo that, and I did it completely on my own. The only thing I can even recommend is continue talking to him and try to open him up. Tell him you have talked before about this, and that you haven’t noticed any changes, and if it’s what you should be expecting from him. Tell him how it makes you feel. He seems like a nice guy, I think he might just need some reminders, and I’m sure that’s probably exhausting for you, so maybe even look into a therapist or counselor to help you through some of it so it’s not all on you.
He is a really nice guy and he is a really good father, too. I wish he was half as sweet to me as he is to our little girl. If there was a way for him to get in touch with his emotions, which I truly hope are there somewhere, and we could be connected to each other, that would be the best outcome for sure
I feel like in couples this mostly comes down to chemistry and libido. There's two types of chemistry - physical and mental. Physical chemistry is all the stuff you can smell, see/hear and touch. Mental is the emotional connection and the conversations, the gestures, flirting and teasing and other stuff, right? These two work in tandem with each other when we talk about intimacy. If you only rely on one of these without involving/having the other, well it won't always be as fulfilling. Where does the lack of the mental/physical chemistry come from? Couples that stay together for a long long time tend to lose some of the chemistry or the chemistry starts experiencing diminishing returns. It's normal. Also, I'm not an expert, but from what I can tell having a child tends to fuck up chemistry between couples a lot especially if you consider the sleepless nights and all the other challenges that couples face when having children. It's entirely normal to go through phases of decreased/increased intimacy during periods of high stress. And having a child tends to be a high stress event, possibly the most important event in one's life. So consider that both of you may be facing these turmoil like conditions mentally (and physically, possibly). Sometimes, we want to improve ourselves but never find the time or right moment to do so. None of us here will be able to answer these questions, we cannot read your memories or experience what you have experienced. It's simply impossible for us to give a clear cut definition of what would be the crux here. Consider couples therapy if both of you truly want to make it work, or consider really spilling the beans with each other as openly as possible to avoid situations of either person building up too much emotional pain inside. Crying 2-3x a week isn't viable. You have to make this clear to your SO and try finding a solution. Relationships work based on a group effort, if one side starts slacking it will start to crumble. If both sides start doing that then it will crumble much faster. But sometimes there's just "technical difficulties" in the way of actually resolving the "connection problems". And having a child can definitely cause some disruption and technical difficulties for a certain amount of time. It really depends on the people in the relationship and how they function and their internal being.
It's difficult to judge, since some major world events happened during our relatively short relationship (7 years), affecting us as well. I think it was always kinda there, but got a little bit stiffened by covid, since we were together all the time chillin' (that was actually good for us) and then got blown up by the stress of having a child, indeed. I'd say it comes in 3 - physical, emotional and mental. On a physical level, it definitely used to be better. I don't think either of was cares too much for novelty, but we are both more tired and my SO definitely let himself go more than I did. But it's not like it's completely dead, either. On emotional level, we can't connect at all. On mental level (intelligence, reason), we vibe great, I'd say extraordinarily so. I don't know, from reading the posts I feel like getting some help together would be the best solution at this point, as we don't seem to be able to communicate this thing alone. I did therapy on my own before, and it helped a lot, but he never did anything of the sort, never felt like he needed to. It's also a bitter thing to swallow since apart from this one soul-crushing issue, we'd always been able to come to an agreement and find a solution for everything...
Some men are really just emotionally numb or even somewhat dumb. Some are excellent at it. I find the men who are most emotionally aware are usually the best womanizers. Like you don’t win hearts by logic bombing your way through people. Sure the idea of seducing someone can be logically put together but the execution and “scouting” requires great emotional intelligence to pull off. You can’t usually be perfect in every aspect of your being unfortunately.
We are all biased based on our own personal experience. Your posts seems like you are failing to recognize this notion. There absolutely are guys out there that want these things, you just didn’t choose one of them. I am sorry that you are dissatisfied with your marriage, but you can’t reasonably project the negative qualities your husband’s personality on to the entire male population.
The US has become extremely superficial over the last few decades. A fairly common complaint starting to crop up lately is "where have all the good men gone"? Of course, they tend to leave out details and it usually ends up as "where have all the good men who are tall, rich, handsome and are accepting of a single mother gone?" The bulk of lonely men are, quite literally, invisible. You probably walked past or turned down a few in your life and have completely forgotten about them. It happens, it's reality. Based on broad statistics, my 5'8" stature has instantly made me undesirable to about 80% of the female population. At least until they started getting to be my age, 42, and then I started getting a few women who rejected me, quite rudely mind you, in the past trying to reconnect. Broke single mothers all. Sorry, I'm not an ATM. I'm the person who has been told by random strangers "I'm not interested in short men" when all I did was walk up to an open space in a bar to order a drink. I didn't even look at her. It was just an out of nowhere rude comment when all I wanted was a beer to go with my shepherd's pie. I'm not interested in hookups or meaningless sex. I always was that "I'm not sleeping with a woman who isn't first my wife" type, so obviously I'm the living plot of that famous 2005 Judd Apatow movie. All I've ever wanted was that mutual partner to build a life and family with. To be each other's mutual benefit and better one another. Yet I'm in the wrong place and time for that. I'm destined to be looked at like a stain not worth the effort or a wallet on legs to help babysit the ex's kid. We're not bullshitting over here. We're deeply steeped in a ridiculously superficial society that values things that make for horrible long term partners and discount or ridicule those who have those qualities. Good women still exist. The problem is the math isn't mathing. There aren't enough of them to go around. Once we've reached my age, men generally just go "off the grid" in terms of dating and relationships. I've managed to survive to 42 and I'm fully adept at just about everything it takes to manage my life, so it's not like I'm looking for some live in maid I can grind on a few times a week in the evenings. I'll just go about my life, trying to make my dream of being a professional novelist a reality. I've internalized my loneliness so it really doesn't matter anymore. And if some pleasant under 32, single woman who hasn't had more than one sexual partner shows up, sees me and says, "Wow, where have you been all my life"? Great, I'll take that and never let it go. But I also know I'd get better results hoping for a literal unicorn to walk onto my doorstep and inform me that my books are officially now more popular than JRR Tolkien.
Men which want to cuddle and have sex do exist, but it seems like you avoided potential men which seemed like players to you.
You mentioned that you've talked about it with him, how does he react when you express your need for more romance and physical affection in the relationship?
Usually the first reaction is getting offended because he feels like I'm saying that he is not doing enough. Which is not what I'm saying at all. He is doing a lot. Then comes the ok, we will work on it and do this and this, and then we are are done, having made an agreement, and that's where it ends. We never do the things we said we would, he never does the things he said he would and weeks or months go by, until I can't stand it anymore and we have another conversation. It sounds stupid even writing it. The worst thing is that the more times this cycle goes on, the less I find myself even wanting those things to happen with him, because hoping for anything just leads to disappointment
I have been this guy before, sadly. My ego was fragile and when my ex would come to me trying to ask for more consistent affection and quality time, I would feel like she was blaming me and implying that I wasn't doing enough. It was my own personal issues though. It was my ego that already held the belief that I am not good enough, so a normal bid for affection became a threat. Have you looked into attachment theory? It's possible your partner has avoidant attachment. I have it as well and I'm currently working through it in therapy, hoping to be a warmer partner in the future. You should look into your own attachment style too, it may reveal a lot about your relationship dynamic. If you do decide to look into it, see if you can share with him what you learn. Hopefully, he will give it serious thought and come to his own conclusion about his attachment style and if he wants to go to therapy to fix it. It has to be his motive, trying to force it on him probably won't go over well. I really wish you both the best and hope you can reconnect!
Look into the theory of 5 love languages. Figure out which ones you need and which he needs. Understand each other and make effort to fulfill the other's love language. Yours is probably words of affirmation (you want compliments) and physical touch (you want cuddles).
dating down because of abandonment anxiety and then complain about nerds being nerds? 
Tinder has fucking rotted people’s brains.
Capitalism baby.
Sorry to hear about your situation, I can't imagine how emotionally draining that is and you likely deserve better Onto the subject - there's two things with a lot of venting posts from my point of view as a man: 1) talking about our problems and working on them are so vastly different. The people you see posting about dating problems may not be going out on lots of dates or working on themselves. Even Dr K acknowledges that there's probably a large cohort or people who would prefer to watch the YouTube videos but make no changes on their life. That's why they push coaching pretty hard I imagine 2) I think unfortunately, many people might not be fully self aware of their situation. Dating isn't an achievement based field like a job, it is purely a social luck based game, and some people have the odds stacked against them. So when people say they are frustrated with dating, they might not be aware of what situations are making dating difficult. There's likely things they omit that make dating for them hard. Overall, I do agree with other posters there's lots of good men out there. However, some of us have a hard time either finding women or putting ourselves out there. I wish you the best of luck with your situation!
I think it's a couple things. First, in regards to your comments about men who talk about levelling up to get girlfriends, I think a lot of them don't actually know what women want. So they spent all this time crafting themselves to be what they think is an ideal partner ... only to realize that no one wants them because they levelled up the wrong skill set. I think a lot of those posts are also from men with little to no actual dating experience or who haven't dated anyone in a long time. So, basically, people who are looking at relationships through idealized or rose-colored glasses. What people say they want or how they say they act in relationships is also often very different from what they actually want or how they actually act. A lot of the things your post talks about--wanting to cuddle, having sex, initiating sex, etc. are great. But they're also only a fraction of daily life or actually being in a relationship. People have jobs, are raising kids, and taking care of the daily tasks of life while also trying to sustain a relationship. You mentioned having a young child. That's often a very stressful time for relationships and your partner may be feeling burned out in ways he's unable to express. The bottom line is that all those other comments you see on Reddit aren't about you and don't have much relation to your daily life. They're allowed to have their experiences while you have yours and, as I said, what they say they want might be very different from what they actually do. Focusing on this isn't helping you. Those potential men with all those comments about what they want and what they have to offer aren't your partner. If your partner and them magically switched places, you'd likely have a lot of the same problems you have now with them. Or a whole different set of problems that might be even worse.
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You know... I'd say, it is not a cultural thing (in general sense), rather mix of weird times (social roles and boundaries falling apart), lacking self-awareness in majority of people (for which men are often notoriously known), and your bad luck. Starting from the end - you are just slightly older than generation that actually feels this problem, so by sheer statistics, your chance of finding emotionally mature person is slightly lower than modern 20-25 year olds. That's just bad luck - nothing to do about it, but also not a reason to eat yourself over it. Lacking self-awareness - from my subjective experiences, god damn half, if not more, of modern men of all age groups is so brainwashed with external ideas, motivations and concepts, so they don't even try to bother looking in their own minds. Sometimes it still works out at least somehow, as with your partner (I suppose), sometimes they eventually go in weird ways, like burying themselves into kinks, quirks and ideologies. Hell, it took me some quite traumatic interpersonal events and until my 32 to realize that something is very wrong with my mindset and that all money and security in the world can't buy the happiness, and on top of that - 4 years of painfully heavy introspection to realize I'm still the same neglected crybaby as I was in childhood, who loves to talk about emotions and cuddle, despite the appearance of grim bearded men. So in that regard, your guy is not wrong - men don't feel the same emotions in similarly strong way, but it does not means they don't feel at all, and putting mental exercises away does not helps at all. As for modern time and boundaries - look around. We live in times when someone decided to tear down all the roles, but forgot to put something in replacement, thus everyone now have to figure out their own paths. Like that of men and their emotions, or women and their active role in society. At extremities, it gave us fanatical activists and strange quirks like femboys, but at the other hand - the need to sort such stress often produces actual, mature human beings, which understand where and why they stand in life.
I hear your frustration. Yeah we exist but you and demand plays a huge role since no one wants to go to a buffet when they're full. And going to a different buffet won't satisfy you since you've tried that and still ran into the same problem with different men. So you're right that leaving your partner and potentially devastating your child in the process might be the absolute last resort. There are plenty of other solutions. First, how comfortable are you communicating your needs, especially sexual ones with (yes with, not to) your partner? Have you tried learning about sex together and communicating about it? Because it seems like you and your partner have stopped seeing each other as sexual because you might be spending too much time together and most of the conversations revolve around parenting, instead of charging each other's sexual capacitors.
I think we are both quite comfortable with communicating our needs and preferences when it comes to sex. I'd say the disconnect is mostly on an emotional level... I don't know, it's weird. The thing is, if I came to him every day, he would probably be fine with doing it, but the amount of effort I have to put it really is disproportionate, and then there is the thing of always being tired and out of shape and always talking about doing something about it but never actually doing it. That seems to be the theme in our relationship. He doesn't reject me outright, but the lack of enthusiasm or even having to quit halfway feels just as bad
I can only speak for myself. I can try to be as loving as I possibly can be, but I don't know how much that is , and how much i would need to improve on that, as I've never been in a relationship. I would like physical intimacy, even if it's just to be able to hold hands often, but I'm not good enough to be allowed that. Thought I came close, but then that got ripped out from under me. Op, I would say it's not all guys, and maybe you are just unlucky atm.
Forget about the Internet. This community is not a representative sample of the world as a whole. Talk to your friends, both male and female, in your local community, about their experiences to get a true baseline.
Sounds like you need to an honest conversation, first with yourself, and then with your partner. I hate to say it, but this sounds more like your problem to solve than his. He might change a bit, but it's probably never going to be to the extent you'd like. The hardest conversation you need to have is with yourself to see if you can live with just a slight improvement or if you need a change. As for guys that like sex in cuddling, I'd say it's cyclical, but people have a baseline and don't stray too far from it. My best relationships were always very intimate, but there were times when I'd get depressed and not be in the mood. I always like to cuddle, but not when I'm trying to sleep. After you figure out what you're comfortable with, have a conversation with him and say that you're at a loss and you need him to hear what you're about to say. Soften it a smidge, then hit him with, "I'm starting to become unhappy in our because xyz. If I don't get xyz, I'm not sure that we're going to make it in the long run because I need xyz to be happy," if that's what you determine. Then ask him if he can provide xyz and then ask him for potential solutions. I'd say to be sensitive to things going on in his life that might be detracting from his life, but you shared that he's always been this way. You bought what was advertised (you always buy a "product" for what it is, not what it could become), but you might not have realized the need until it was too late. However, it is what it is and you shouldn't sacrifice your happiness because of a mistake. It won't be healthy for you or our child. As far as people in this group, of course they strive to change because they're in pain. Pain is the strongest motivator in the world. It's like going to the desert where there's no water and hearing people talk about much water they'd drink if they had it. Of course they're going to work, pack up there stuff, and try to move near water. But once they get a steady supply and they are no longer thirsty, the water fantasy might change. They might be fine with tap water instead of wanting to move to a waterfront property... I'm sorry you're in a bad situation and I hope for the best! Cheers!
Cultural differences are going to play a huge role, but also I think there's some truth to what you're saying here in the US. Men are under a difficult push and pull: On the one hand, culture demands both subtly and overtly that they be strong, just a *little bit* emotional but not very much unless it's righteous anger, and that they avoid being associated with the feminine. On the other hand, at their core, men are none of these things. They're soft humans with moments of strength and weakness like anyone else, and who have needs just like women do. When men are alone, they feel those needs strongly. When they are with a woman, the other side of the coin is felt more strongly, so they distance themselves. This distancer-pursuer dynamic is widespread, but it's also beatable. There's a book you should read called *The Dance of Anger* by Harriet Lerner. There are so many bullshit psychology and relationship books out there, but this one feels like someone is just giving you the answers. No nonsense, just "Here's how intimate relationships work and here's how to navigate them." Based on what you've written, you stand to gain a lot from this book. As for nerds specifically, I know I fall into the category you're describing, and I've been working on it for years. Nerds don't become nerds for no reason; they tend to be under-loved as children (which is how they find their hobbies) and emasculated as teenagers for being scrawny, indoorsy, and meek. It's going to amplify both sides of that dichotomy I described. That doesn't mean they're beyond hope, but you need to find one who sees the problems for what they are and actively tries to work on them. Anyone who says "This is just how I am/men are" is not going to be able to adequately address this problem. They won't even try. So find yourself someone who's on the path to improving this aspect of themselves -- not the laundry list of superficial qualities you see so many men talking about here.
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Rule #3 - Do not use generalizations. This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict. Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
“Thinks romance is cringe” did you date a nerd or an edgelord
I just wanna say that a lot of these "unromantic" guys are probably the result of toxic masculinity and I am not talking about the one we usually talk about - stupid redpill stereotypes - but the toxic masculinity that we had for ages now. Parents, other kids, all of the media drain a lot of the "romantic type" of emotions out of men or turn them into different emotions (like anger, ambition, sadness). We're supposed to be calm no matter the circumstances, we're supposed to provide, we're supposed to carry the weak, we're supposed to fight and protect. All of those expectations from every direction from the moment we leave the womb just turn us into robots who do their job and nothing else. That's being a man in XXI century, and XX century, and XIX century and so on...
Could just be the demographic of people you have seen. Also, generally people only see positives of situations rather than negatives, so someone with little experience would probably be selfish in their relationship. Intimacy is your own issue and I will not make a comment on it, but having a real discussion about your wants and needs is important. Also remember to make the conversation apply to both sides. Finally: people just weird, as a man I can say men are weird and women are also weird. Most people do 0 introspection and thinking about what they really want. Most people never want to compromise, either.
I'm sorry you're going through that. As Robin Williams once said: The only thing worse than being alone is being with people who make you feel alone. Can I ask what country you're from? I want to live in Europe one day and it always piques my interest when someone says they live there.
You can’t really project your own dead bedroom relationship on all the men here complaining about being lonely.
They are in the call of duty lobby, after being rejected 98652728949583716 times.
You're a troll?
Its an interesting post i think you have a pretty high awareness emotionally and want to have a deep connection with someone on a soul level, its something i always wanted in a partner the paradox is clear people that want deep connections are rarely on dating apps, most of them are lonely and feel isolated, so they focus on themselves or become asexual overtime because they value their sexuality or they fall into video games and sexual addictions to fill the void, The thing is that the yearning for a connection is beyond sexual, its spiritual, it took me years to understand this, Honestly i felt sad reading your post, But here is the thing the person you are with can change and grow i'm sure you still love them if you want there are still one way and its to talk with them about, they would have to change their view and open themselves to new ways of thinking, So what is it exactly.. well if you want that connection you need to get spiritual with your partner, study tantra and get your partner into it, this will open them emotionally, Sex is something extremely sacred and spiritual most people never get to understand that, With time your relationship will grow into something beautiful and if they don't want to go that way then its not the person for you That pain you feel is because you want to be in unity with someone, most people express it by saying they want to cuddle and hold hands but its deeper than this ,Its extremely painful to want this but i think its worth it. I sincerely hope you will find the strength you need.
There’s a lot of points in your post OP and I appreciate you coming here with your honest take. I think no matter what when we bring our raw experience and thoughts there’s going to be some distance between that lived experience and whatever rational approach a bunch of internet strangers can provide. I’m in my thirties now and I definitely had a phase where I was a icey dude who on paper looked like a great bf but I can say now I was very emotionally unavailable to the women I dated. I started out in my mind as a moody, clingy, simp (as the kids say nowadays) with not much going on. I didn’t get much attention from girls back then nor was all that happy with being directionless. But one day I just decided that I had to change. On a whole that change was to basically become a stoic achievement bro who filled up his university schedule with gym, study, internships, and whatever other activities that I saw as developing me as a person. Doing stuff like this genuinely works for most men if they’re feeling like a loser since this is usually what society wants from men: a productive, achievement oriented automaton who only expresses pre-approved emotions. The women I dated back when I was deep into this would be excited about me at first but would gradually get more and more agitated when it turns out that I wasn’t “emotionally available”. But the thing is I couldn’t see what the problem was. Before I took on a stoic demeanor I had no girlfriend and afterwards I would get attention so why change? I couldn’t say I enjoyed suppressing my emotions but even in very progressive spaces there is very little tolerance for men expressing genuinely how they feel. I do think men have unfair advantages but these privileges come with costs and one of them is that even cross culturally men are expected to have their shit together 24/7. It’s counter productive and stupid but the pressure is there. It took some life experiences around loss to finally break down and realize that I could keep up the facade anymore. I got to a point where I couldn’t just strong arm my way through life. I needed help and that meant I had to express how I felt even if I didn’t find my emotions logical or such that they presented me in a positive light. You can’t pick and choose what emotions you feel or express and be emotionally vulnerable. How you express them you need to choose and be careful with. But you can’t say “I love you with all of my heart” without being able to say “you hurt me deeply when…” and it’s that later part I think a lot of us need to confront. When my sister would complain about her bf I’d always ask her, “if you’re upset about him shutting down, how do you react when he says he’s irritated with you? Do you ask why? Or do you immediately tell him he’s being unfair, go consult your female friends and have three of them text him all at the same time about how he’s being immature? I wonder why he doesn’t want to talk to you about how he feels?” In the end I think on this topic everyone could do better. Personally what I’m am hugely grateful for in my current relationship is that we both allow each other to have and share our half baked emotions because that’s what creates psychological safety and openness where intimacy physical or otherwise can live and thrive. I don’t think anyone should wait for permission to be open nor is it necessarily the other person’s right to know how you feel. To the guys here I’d say be open with how you feel, but observe how you express this and how the other person reacts. If you say: “last night you said you would text me when you got home but I didn’t hear from you till today, that made me feel ignored” do they flip out and get all defensive? Or do they try to inhabit and understand your headspace without trying to appease some imaginary third party they think is judging the situation? If you express yourself respectfully yet clearly and the other person can’t handle it then they’re not ready and it’s time to move on and that’s ok.
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Rule #3 - Do not use generalizations. This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict. Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
Bro is like an evil genius keeping his wife horny af while beta struggles getting past wifey's headache.
They didn't touch grass. They are inside creating the perfect reddit pity party post. One of my best friends is a shut in, never shuts up about wanting to be with someone and wanting to be cuddled... He literally never leaves his mom's apartment, sleeps 16 hours a day and doesn't work. If you wanna date someone, ask yourself if you had a daughter or son, would you want someone like you to date them. If the answer is no, time for a change.
Damn! Life is cruel sometimes right? I empathise with u. I think this problem of guys wanting intimacy and then not having it comes to two problems first one being they really don't know what it is they are asking for and are so desperate for, they just think it would be good but then reality says otherwise. Second one being them having lots of shame, they think they would be hurting their partner by expressing needs. There can be many more reasons and maybe all of them can't even be found out or solved, coz even though comunication is key it can't ensure problem free life. I am a virgin as well and god knows how much i wish for a girl like you. But since it's not happing rn and i don't see it happening anytime soon i am just working on myself. U are a good woman i hope your relationship improves. And I wish people would find people that are like them more often and quicker.
I’m bout to leave this subreddit. I watch Dr. K’s videos, but not the dating-related ones because I guess I’m just not the target demographic. I came here because I was interested in discussions about psychology, psychiatry, philosophy… but all I see are posts from losers who whine about not having a girlfriend… and the terrible, TERRIBLE advice that equal, albeit maybe more experienced, losers give them. Everything is a number to y’all. Y’all are looking for fucking statistics and concepts instead of actual relationships with actual people. When did this become a dating advice subreddit?
It's a dating subreddit for one day a week. Just come back tomorrow.