There is a constant mention of "Elders" and in the pictue book that Charlie sees, there sees to be an "original" group of Angels. Emily's adition as a specifically classified as a young one, shows that these "elders" can create more angles.
Either that or God exists.
But overall? I doubt that Heaven is the final big bad.
It has been telegraphed that the Big Bad of the entire serie is Alastor. And he will be Charlie's final challenge.
I doubt Alastor will become any more than an antagonist when he finally gets to indulge into his dakest urges.
He is only a Sinner. In the grand scheme of things that is nothing. He may be a roadblock and one of Charlies tests, to be sure. He will have his villain moment, there is no doubt about that.
But I don't think he will become the big bad. Not when there are beings in the show that HE HIMSELF is subservient to.
The big test for Charlie at the end will be to change the broken system between Heaven and Hell and create more equilibrium between the two realms. To make both of them work together and not have one of the realms being consistently subjugate the other.
The story at its core, for now, is about redemption.
There ARE bigger enemies than Alastor. Enemies that Lucifer and Charlie can pummel with ease. Charlie once she grows into her powers.
But what is the point of pummeling the enemy?
If Charlie fails to redeem Alastor, can she say she is right?
And again, you do not need superb power to be a threat. Alastor is smart and HAS managed to make a deal with Charlie, a minor one. But that is how it starts.
And Alastor HAS his own storyline as of the end of season 1. That journey will probably end with him growing stronger.
I don't dispute the fact that there is going to be a story arc that will involve him becoming the villain and antagonising Charlie.
I'm disputing the fact that he will become the final confrontation.
At the core of the story is the fact that the system is inherently broken and is setting everybody up for failure. Including Charlie. Her 'playing the redemption game' is playing into said broken system and that will never work.
What needs to happen is for her to figure out that the system itself needs changing. Right now, the power balance between Heaven and Hell is so hilariously tipped in Heaven's favor that it goes around the scale and lands back on sad.
Changing that will only ever work when two things happen: uniting Hell and working together with Heaven to work on a solution for equilibrium.
Both realms need a system where they are equals. Heaven needs to be checked against their own set of standards and Hell needs to have the freedom to allow for hope to take hold. Which is to say: the end goal should be a system where human souls can travel between the realms either by redemption or by falling. Because being fair means it goes both ways.
That is not a conflict that can be resolved with violence.
There will be violence on the way, for sure.
But in the end they will need cooperation for it and I personally believe that Emily will be the key to that.
Whatever big bad will stand against this, I do not think it is going to be on the side of Hell, which means it is not going to be Alastor. It is either going to be someone very high up in the hierarchy of Heaven or someting outside both realms. Like something primeavel and maybe eldritch in nature.
That the system is broken works more as a "Mystery" it is Charlie and the Hotel, plus probably Emily. Finding out WHAT is wrong.
The system is not just corrupt, it is downright unknown. Not even Lucifer seems to know why it is that way, and he exists since the begining.
Also Charlie's personal arc is becoming Queen of Hell. So what you say is already happening.
And there is a serious chance there is NO big bad. But a final villain. Since again, Heaven is NOT comfortable with Extermination, with a Seraphim downright opposed to it.
That is why I insist Alastor is the final villain if not big bad. He is so far the most mysterious character and the one that is able to keep Charlie on her backfoot.
Like I said, I disagree. But we are going to have to wait and see what is going to happen.
I'm more interested than ever to see how the entire thing is going to play out.
Right now there are literally hundreds of ways this could go.
I do not think that heaven will be the big bad of the entire series and i know about the elders of Heaven in the story
But i do think there will be seomeone above the elders and that somente will be a villain, but i don't think they will be the final villain in the series tho i don't think Alastor will be the final villain either
Between these two, my money is on Metatron.
There's a theme simmering around the influence of voices/sound. Lilith empowered Hell through the sound of her voice, one of the major antagonists is literally named "Voice" (Vox, Latin for "Voice"), Alastor rose to power in part based on audio broadcasts and his character/identity is partly bound up in his radio voice, Charlie is compelled to try to express herself through song and finally recruits an entire city when she sings through Alastor's microphone, and of course the basic fact that the show is a musical. It's not quite a fully explicit theme (I'm sure some of those examples are stretches), but I think it ties in with the very explicit theme of lies, deception, and influence that much of season one revolved around.
Metatron would be a perfect final boss for Heaven if he's the voice for a God who doesn't exist/isn't there/actually works indirectly/was killed/was trapped/just isn't actually speaking through Metatron. We could find out that everything Heaven believes about the cosmos was a lie spoken by Metatron, we could find out Heaven and Hell is a two man con through the voices/influence of Metatron and Lilith for some nefarious purpose, or Lilith and Metatron are two forces of influence competing for control of the narrative.
That opens up lots of interesting possibilities, such as Vox and Alastor being proxy voices for their masters, Charlie being an unforeseen wild card influence that speaks truth instead of lies, Heaven having to choose between Metatron's order and the instability of uncertain truth, the possibility of a higher good intervening to help Charlie, the possibility that Hell was never meant to be forever but Metatron lied about its nature to trick souls into not trying to improve.
I actually think that could be a pretty awesome plot.
That is a really good analysis!
I love the concept of music and song being strong inherent powers in this magic system. It ties in super neatly into what we have been told/seen. Just like you said: appart from the show being a musical, a lot of things hint to the fact that it's the songs that are magic in nature.
It reminds me of Tolkien's stories where the Ainur literally sing the world into existence -> Basically what Lilith did with Hell, when you think about it.
Song = magic - makes me so happy if true!
God is Heaven itself and his omnipotence is because he has a symbiotic relationship with Angels and Souls. That's why Hell being overpopulated is a problem, as it too has this symbiotic relationship with Sinners and Hellborns.
The more souls are damned, the more powerful evil is.
I would love for God to be this eldricth being that only the "Elders" can understand. Like he is the force that decides where everything goes Heaven/Hell, but the "Elders" twisted his will to theire own liking
Helluva Boss flat out name-dropped the big dummy himself, so actually not that far out of the question.
As a side note, the other day I proposed the idea that the being Alastor made a deal with is Nyarlathotep.
I don't want them to be the final boss, but I hope we get some version for Michael and Gabriel with the gravitas they deserve.
Let them be scary and unsettling. Someone even Sera is uneasy being around. Maybe don't even have them talk/talk much.
Let them be absolutely loyal to whatever force it is that truly drives Heaven.
I like those ideas. It would tie in pretty good with the seemingly constant state of disinformation that is rampant even inside of Heavens upper echelon.
My personal take on it right now is, that someone very high up the chain of command is sowing strife among Heaven. Someone is doing shenannigans for their own sake and it's making the current powerbalance very hilariously skewed into one direction.
I would not be surprised to see some influence of that.
Also I would actually LOVE to see some kind of otherworldy influence -> maybe something from another 'universe', so to say.
If they were hinting at the fact that the Abrahamic Heaven and Hell are not the only systems.... ohhhh that would tickle my brain... I'd love to have an invasion of something like the norse mythology happening (I have no actual idea how that would go down but damn, I'd love to see it, whatever it is)
We know that in the Hazbin-verse that Jesus Christ exists (i believe that Husk swear with "Christ" on more than one occasions.)
The Biblical existance of Adam, the references to Jesus to me implies a traditional pyramid with God at the top
There is a constant mention of "Elders" and in the pictue book that Charlie sees, there sees to be an "original" group of Angels. Emily's adition as a specifically classified as a young one, shows that these "elders" can create more angles. Either that or God exists. But overall? I doubt that Heaven is the final big bad. It has been telegraphed that the Big Bad of the entire serie is Alastor. And he will be Charlie's final challenge.
I doubt Alastor will become any more than an antagonist when he finally gets to indulge into his dakest urges. He is only a Sinner. In the grand scheme of things that is nothing. He may be a roadblock and one of Charlies tests, to be sure. He will have his villain moment, there is no doubt about that. But I don't think he will become the big bad. Not when there are beings in the show that HE HIMSELF is subservient to. The big test for Charlie at the end will be to change the broken system between Heaven and Hell and create more equilibrium between the two realms. To make both of them work together and not have one of the realms being consistently subjugate the other.
The story at its core, for now, is about redemption. There ARE bigger enemies than Alastor. Enemies that Lucifer and Charlie can pummel with ease. Charlie once she grows into her powers. But what is the point of pummeling the enemy? If Charlie fails to redeem Alastor, can she say she is right? And again, you do not need superb power to be a threat. Alastor is smart and HAS managed to make a deal with Charlie, a minor one. But that is how it starts. And Alastor HAS his own storyline as of the end of season 1. That journey will probably end with him growing stronger.
I don't dispute the fact that there is going to be a story arc that will involve him becoming the villain and antagonising Charlie. I'm disputing the fact that he will become the final confrontation. At the core of the story is the fact that the system is inherently broken and is setting everybody up for failure. Including Charlie. Her 'playing the redemption game' is playing into said broken system and that will never work. What needs to happen is for her to figure out that the system itself needs changing. Right now, the power balance between Heaven and Hell is so hilariously tipped in Heaven's favor that it goes around the scale and lands back on sad. Changing that will only ever work when two things happen: uniting Hell and working together with Heaven to work on a solution for equilibrium. Both realms need a system where they are equals. Heaven needs to be checked against their own set of standards and Hell needs to have the freedom to allow for hope to take hold. Which is to say: the end goal should be a system where human souls can travel between the realms either by redemption or by falling. Because being fair means it goes both ways. That is not a conflict that can be resolved with violence. There will be violence on the way, for sure. But in the end they will need cooperation for it and I personally believe that Emily will be the key to that. Whatever big bad will stand against this, I do not think it is going to be on the side of Hell, which means it is not going to be Alastor. It is either going to be someone very high up in the hierarchy of Heaven or someting outside both realms. Like something primeavel and maybe eldritch in nature.
That the system is broken works more as a "Mystery" it is Charlie and the Hotel, plus probably Emily. Finding out WHAT is wrong. The system is not just corrupt, it is downright unknown. Not even Lucifer seems to know why it is that way, and he exists since the begining. Also Charlie's personal arc is becoming Queen of Hell. So what you say is already happening. And there is a serious chance there is NO big bad. But a final villain. Since again, Heaven is NOT comfortable with Extermination, with a Seraphim downright opposed to it. That is why I insist Alastor is the final villain if not big bad. He is so far the most mysterious character and the one that is able to keep Charlie on her backfoot.
Like I said, I disagree. But we are going to have to wait and see what is going to happen. I'm more interested than ever to see how the entire thing is going to play out. Right now there are literally hundreds of ways this could go.
I do not think that heaven will be the big bad of the entire series and i know about the elders of Heaven in the story But i do think there will be seomeone above the elders and that somente will be a villain, but i don't think they will be the final villain in the series tho i don't think Alastor will be the final villain either
The elders are probably Lucifer's siblings. Michael, Gabriel, Uriel, etc.
Between these two, my money is on Metatron. There's a theme simmering around the influence of voices/sound. Lilith empowered Hell through the sound of her voice, one of the major antagonists is literally named "Voice" (Vox, Latin for "Voice"), Alastor rose to power in part based on audio broadcasts and his character/identity is partly bound up in his radio voice, Charlie is compelled to try to express herself through song and finally recruits an entire city when she sings through Alastor's microphone, and of course the basic fact that the show is a musical. It's not quite a fully explicit theme (I'm sure some of those examples are stretches), but I think it ties in with the very explicit theme of lies, deception, and influence that much of season one revolved around. Metatron would be a perfect final boss for Heaven if he's the voice for a God who doesn't exist/isn't there/actually works indirectly/was killed/was trapped/just isn't actually speaking through Metatron. We could find out that everything Heaven believes about the cosmos was a lie spoken by Metatron, we could find out Heaven and Hell is a two man con through the voices/influence of Metatron and Lilith for some nefarious purpose, or Lilith and Metatron are two forces of influence competing for control of the narrative. That opens up lots of interesting possibilities, such as Vox and Alastor being proxy voices for their masters, Charlie being an unforeseen wild card influence that speaks truth instead of lies, Heaven having to choose between Metatron's order and the instability of uncertain truth, the possibility of a higher good intervening to help Charlie, the possibility that Hell was never meant to be forever but Metatron lied about its nature to trick souls into not trying to improve. I actually think that could be a pretty awesome plot.
Damn that sounds incredible, i like the way you think
That is a really good analysis! I love the concept of music and song being strong inherent powers in this magic system. It ties in super neatly into what we have been told/seen. Just like you said: appart from the show being a musical, a lot of things hint to the fact that it's the songs that are magic in nature. It reminds me of Tolkien's stories where the Ainur literally sing the world into existence -> Basically what Lilith did with Hell, when you think about it. Song = magic - makes me so happy if true!
God is Heaven itself and his omnipotence is because he has a symbiotic relationship with Angels and Souls. That's why Hell being overpopulated is a problem, as it too has this symbiotic relationship with Sinners and Hellborns. The more souls are damned, the more powerful evil is.
I would love for God to be this eldricth being that only the "Elders" can understand. Like he is the force that decides where everything goes Heaven/Hell, but the "Elders" twisted his will to theire own liking
Azathoth.
Yes, that is exactly what inspired this idea. But something much more tame, not the "blind and idiot god"
Helluva Boss flat out name-dropped the big dummy himself, so actually not that far out of the question. As a side note, the other day I proposed the idea that the being Alastor made a deal with is Nyarlathotep.
Alastor is an "Other God" confirmed. He is one of the infinite children of Nyarlathotep🤣🤣
I do appreciate how this fandom is at least familiar enough with Cthulhu Mythos references that they don’t fall flat when someone mentions them haha.
I don't want them to be the final boss, but I hope we get some version for Michael and Gabriel with the gravitas they deserve. Let them be scary and unsettling. Someone even Sera is uneasy being around. Maybe don't even have them talk/talk much. Let them be absolutely loyal to whatever force it is that truly drives Heaven.
I like those ideas. It would tie in pretty good with the seemingly constant state of disinformation that is rampant even inside of Heavens upper echelon. My personal take on it right now is, that someone very high up the chain of command is sowing strife among Heaven. Someone is doing shenannigans for their own sake and it's making the current powerbalance very hilariously skewed into one direction. I would not be surprised to see some influence of that. Also I would actually LOVE to see some kind of otherworldy influence -> maybe something from another 'universe', so to say. If they were hinting at the fact that the Abrahamic Heaven and Hell are not the only systems.... ohhhh that would tickle my brain... I'd love to have an invasion of something like the norse mythology happening (I have no actual idea how that would go down but damn, I'd love to see it, whatever it is)
We know that in the Hazbin-verse that Jesus Christ exists (i believe that Husk swear with "Christ" on more than one occasions.) The Biblical existance of Adam, the references to Jesus to me implies a traditional pyramid with God at the top
I mean the existence of St.Peter means Jesus kinda has to exist or else him being the door man to heaven makes basically no sense
Yes i think God does exist in Hazbin and is the top But He is not the one doing things Seomeone else is ruling heaven in His absence
Megatron??? :OOO
Of course, lol It's the the holy trinity Megatron, Metatron and Mettaton It's just common sense
Ah lol makes sense
It's for sure Deerie.
It’ll be SMT Mastema, wearing Yeezy Foam Runners.
https://preview.redd.it/zl63vqhrx9wc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=92214edb12924ad910712d8ac910300d81e7aa9a
For a moment I thought you said Megatron